¶ Defining Lacanian Perversion
Hello, Hello, Hey, Hey, that's my job. Hello, hey stealing? Who's a pervert? We're pointing fingers right here? All right, we all are. We're doing lacan again. The last time we were together it was lacan psychosis, and this is the other What do you call it abnormal?
Without being Yeah, we could say that the reality it's not it's not it's probably not even I mean it's I would say I would guess that neurotics are not just a plurality, but they're probably the majority.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine neurotics or the majority.
To be a neurotic means you go through two steps. To be a psychotic means you don't come through steps, and the pervert goes through one step, stuck in the middle. Psychotics are a little bit alien. They're kind of like frightening because you don't really know what's going on there. But perverts are kind of fun. I feel like, I don't know that I know any Lacinian perverts, but this seems like they're kind of fun.
People had to tell I feel like to know, maybe you'd have to know about I mean, I think there
¶ Structure Versus Sexual Acts
are obviously other sons, but I mean, if you know it, Like if you have a good friend and you know their sex lives in detail, maybe that would be a hint.
I mean, at least for Freud, it's they're obvious things like fetishism, right, like people having foot fetishes or fetishes for berries and things.
But although like sadomasochistic, like I think you can still be neurotic and be into those things. Also, that's the other thing.
Yeah, you can do you can do perverted things while being neurotic. This is the structure and go again. The thing you're not supposed to do with psychoanalysis is point at people and say, oh, this guy's a pervert for sure, So.
We're going to do that. But we are going to do that.
I was not going to say, well, Steven Miller is for sure a pervert.
Well, I mean I think we're gonna we're gonna do it by saying we're not doing it, being like, well, you know, we're not supposed to do this, but like, here's the here's maybe the evidence. At least I have, like a kid, like I have a bit of a case to make for like Trump, But we can do that later.
There's the sense in which we're all I.
Mean, I have a case. I know what the case is. I can give it. I can give an account for it. I don't actually necessarily think he is, but I can. I can certainly. I think I can give a like an account of why people could read him that way.
Yeah, like the sexy things with Trump, or like the grab him by the pussy thing and the stormy Daniels thing, like there's not and and now the all the Epstein stuff too, like so.
Let's save that though. Yeah, but we should get that, we should get the different.
Evidence the armchair psycho analyze with, well it's more than that.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the normal. We should make this distinction. Yes, the normal distinction of being a pervert means weird sex stuff. Yeah, and this includes weird sex stuff, but it doesn't necessarily include where it's sex. This is a symbolic arrangement to be a proper qui structural.
I saw that Freud divides it. Freud's always so simple compared to Lacana, Like he divides it into there's like your sexual object, like what you the object of sexual desire, and then there's the sexual aim, so like the method about which you go to obtain gratification, and both of those can be I guess like those can diverge from the norm that's the language Freud would use, and they can also like not be aimed at the whole person.
So like a sexual object could be like a part like a and and it could also be like a non human thing like buttons for example, or it could be a part of a person like feet or something like that too, So you have like the fetish for parts of people and like, yeah, so those would be sexual objects. And then I don't know about sexual aims.
I guess that could be more are associated with sadism and masochism, because that's like you get the sexual pleasure from non sexual acts, acts that aren't focused on like
¶ Zizek's Pervert Misconceptions
the genitals and things.
Yeah, there's the when you when you metaphorize perverts, it can be a lot of things. I was doing some back research for this on what like people say about perversion, and a lot go with what jik says. And I'm gonna I'm not I'm not the biggest Lacan guy that there ever was, but I'm gonna say I'm pretty sure that Jijak spreading misinformation on perverts, not least making those
movies called perverts Guide. There's nothing to do. Yeah, there's nothing to do with Lacanian perversion that has to do with those I'm not sure why they're called that.
Another thing that was wondering about that, Yeah, yeah, the perverts guide thing.
Yeah, he was. He was talking about terrorism and there's like a Dutch filmmaker that got shot, not are stabbed. You remember it, we were like young. It was a long time ago.
Yeah.
He commented on this and said, like there's a you could a terrorist has a perverted or may have a perverted structure because they become in their mind the instrument of the law like God or i'llah, whatever you're doing. Now, this this doesn't really actually fit because if you're if you're like if you're a religious nut, if you are a zealot willing to go out and commit an act of public violence, that's not actually being an object in this in this algebra, because you're going out and taking
agency on yourself. Because the pervert being an object is not like I'm going to go I'm not going to go kill someone for God. It's more like I'm gonna be God's dildo, you know, like actually actually an object. But we're going to get into this structure. Maybe we can figure out what this means. Maybe we can get into some case studies because those are why. But yeah, what do you think we should start with here?
We should probably describe the structure of the underlying structure and formation of the pervert and then kind of talk about how it applies, because I think if we start I think it can be very confusing if we start
¶ Understanding Perverse Disavowal
saying like, oh, this fetish or this whatever, because it's like unless you understand the underlying structure, Because like I said before, you can definitely be a neurotic and have those kinds of perversions. Right, It's really more the structure like then than like just being really into like a foot fetish or something like that, right, or a button fetish.
Yeah, and you can have also fetishes and not necessarily be a pervert. This is like a truly compulsive fetish, not like you know, I like fucking around with ropes. It's like I need I need a rope around my neck to come that kind of thing.
Yeah, exactly exactly, So maybe we should start with the underlying structure. And I was also going to say, I did, like just quickly when you were when you were talking there, I was like, maybe, well we can talk about this afterwards, but I think there might actually your reason that fits for why you should have caused his movies a perverts guide. But anyway, well we can save that.
Maybe it wasn't him who called them that it could.
Be could have been an editorial decision to.
¶ Case of the Barber Pervert
Be the director. Can I actually just start with an example. I know you guys didn't read this, so I'm really sorry, but if I can tell you the story of one particular pervert, then maybe we can relate back to it. And that's a structure. The structure will make more sense than saying a over barred, a over disavowal and d that comes in. Yeah, but it's a true case done by a psychoanalyst. And if you want the source, i'll send it to you later. But this is the description
of the perversion. This is a Lacanian analyst and a Lacanian version of the perverts. So we're not dealing with Freudian or Klein or whoever else deals with perverts. Right, So the subject is a guy who's working at his job and he does this frequently. Okay, he has to do this, so it's a compulsion. He leaves the store where he's the manager, as though he's going on a business errand in his car and I'm going to be quoting.
He changes his route so that it takes him through a residential neighborhood and looks for a barber shop in which there is only one barber. The barber has to conform to a certain pre selected type. He must not be lean, must not have long hair, etc. When the patient finds this shop, he returns there a couple of times, unless he becomes afraid that the barber suspects something. In a state of anxiety, there's a key term, so he's in a state of anxiety. He enters the barber shop,
sits in the chair, and asks to be shaved. He sensed pleasurable excitement and anticipated relief as the barber draped the sheet around him, adjusted the towels, and arranged the position of the chair. When the barber was almost finished shaving him, he would rub his hand over his face and complain that it was not smooth enough. The barber would then relather and reshave him again. This continues. He continues again, says it's not smooth enough. This happens more
than once several times. He would then notice that the barber was becoming annoyed and started breathing heavily with the barber's increasing annoyance. This is this is key. With the barber's increasing annoyance and his heavy breathing as he repeatedly had to draw his razor over his neck again and again and again, he would have an erection and ejaculate in his clothes under the barber sheet. Then he would
pay the barber and leave. So, yeah, he's pestering poor barbers, roams the neighborhood stocks looking for one barber who's a target, makes him shave him four or five times, then comes in his jeans and goes back to work. And again he asked, he has to do it this way. This is this is the way that he's going to come if he's going to right.
So that definitely fits what we would think of as perversion,
¶ Sadist, Masochist, and Enjoyment
is like, that's a weird way to get off.
Yeah, and interestingly it may not be a parent on the surface, but this is actually a sadist. So there are masochists, there are sadists what we call in our culture sado masochism, but joining them together that is impossible. In the Lacinian formula, you're either a sadist or a masochist and also a fetishist.
But they're also not opposites. They're not like inversions of one another. They're both.
They're both perverse structures. They can't they can't actually go together. What is that stupid show Fifty Shades of Gray? Is that a Is that like a masochist with a sadist? I forgot, I'm asking the wrong people, But I think if I recall correctly, that's a masochist and a sadist, and they go well together because they complement each other. That's not in That's not how it goes in real life, because.
The sadist wants to cause anxiety and like someone else. I think maybe maybe that like repetition of the shave, but.
I think so does the masochist. Like that's why they're actually similar, because I think the masochist also wants to like make like because the mascist is kind of like demanding that the other person kind of impose some kind
of law on them. Yeah, right, Like they both actually weirdly want That's why they're not opposites, right, because I think they like Weirdly both have a similar like, well I know that that for the for the masochists, right, like they kind of act like, oh, they're doing it for the other person's pleasure, right, They're like, oh, I want you to like do something to me, and I want to be this object for you. But that's actually
¶ Pervert's Incomplete Symbolic Entry
like kind of a phony impulse. It's really about their own enjoyment. Uh, it's not really about the others.
Yeah, there's like the fantasy part, Like so Lacan's like three registers helps, right, like imaginary symbolic real and and for and so this symbolic is the thing that the pervert has trouble getting to. Like the symbolic is when you fully go through separation like the neurotic, then you get to this symbolic, that symbolic castration. The pervert doesn't
go through that. So in yeah, in the imaginary they're like, yes, I'm all for the other person, but in reality they want to like make the law real, and so they're I guess the limits of their tolerance becomes like the real limit, and then the fantasy that supports it is like no, I'm giving myself to this person, like I'm I'm totally trying to give this person like the pleasure of whatever watching my pain. So there's that that the
registers comes into play. Yeah, I think you're describing it pretty much right there.
Yeah, the guy in the barber chair who comes under the under the barber beb his limit like you just said, you said the words, the limit is the real. The limit is the real because he eventually just really ejaculates. Yeah, the symbolic, but he has to. This is another interesting thing about the pervert is they have to set up this whole scenario and repeat the scenario, so you have
¶ Early Life Perversion Factors
different different fantasies in this. In this case of the barber one, the analyst went back to childhood and it goes back to like seeing pigs be slaughtered by getting their throats cut at at the same time as he was being forced in private school to learn how to speak like a like a native pole instead of speak with a Jewish accent. So there's that all the stealing of the voice, which is the agency of the subject, and then that being displaced onto the pigs getting their
throat cut and the sadistic element. I know we think of sadistic like oh yeah, you're burning people with cigarettes like, that's not the guy the forcing the barber to continue to shave you. You until the barber gets upset and it starts getting annoyed and starts getting like, come come on, what the fuck are you doing? That's pushing up against the limit, and that limit pushing is what perverts do to get pleasure. Yeah, the neurotics, basically, we're obsessed with
the limits. We know where they are, where we push them as kids. Then we find out where they are, and then we're horrified when other people push them, push the limits when they're around us.
Yeah, yeah, what you said there. Yeah. The massachist wants to make this other person this, this person involved in their masochism, this says, bring them to the point of enunciating a law, pronouncing a sentence, sometimes by generating anxiety in them. And yeah, so maybe like the barber just saying okay, like that's enough. What the hell is going on here? You're crazy? Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly, so achieved.
They want to hear that that's enough, because they don't hear inside their own head, right, Neurotics always hear Okay, that's enough. We tell ourselves that's enough. They don't hear that.
Part because the neurotic can channel it into language, right, and Leacn says juwiysance is prohibited to whom whoever speaks, So that that would suggest like symbolic castration. You know you you've you've gone from you've gone from alienation through separation, symbolic castration. Now desire has been given a name and is fully integrated into the symbolic, which can be you know, manipulated through speech. You have the object of desire can now be displaced from signify or to signify. You have
the chain of signification in play. For the pervert, they're they're not really there. They're like sort of staging that transition, but yeah, they can't do it in the symbolic like yeah,
¶ Paternal Metaphor and Denial
prohibited to speech.
Well, I think an important concept that comes up here is disavowal. Freud discussing how boys who sometimes when they perceive a girl's genitals they like deny the absence of a penis while simultaneously registering it, so like it's it's like a weird pair. That's this is where that paradoxical stance comes in of like I know very well but all the same. So it's like both denying and registering
it at some level. And whereas like in repression, which is I think what happens to the to the neurotic an impulse or thought, it's a kind of like pushed into the unconscious and then returns like it kind of distorted, but like disavowal, it's like something is both acknowledged and denied. And I think like that that then like kind of sets the stage that has to do with like how the the like paternal metaphor is is like is like kind of not not absorbed in the same way as
as in as in as in neurosis. But I feel like I lost my train of thought there, so let me.
Yeah, the example here is the little boy sees the sees his sister naked and says, oh, she has a small we wi and like, yeah, he's because that's what disavowal. Yeah, Fink says, like disavowal or Freud's word for for llougnung, would actually be better translated as as denial, and it's actually in French it's translated as denis, which is close to denial. So we say disavowal. It's this fancy word like to avow something is to swear swear it like I vow you know, I avow this, you know you
acknowledge it in a strong sense. But to disavow as to yeah, like unswear to say i'd swear I didn't see it. Yeah, And the funny thing is to say I swear that it's not there is a weird thing because something can't be absent unless there's already a symbol all like grid that prepares it, like the example of like you can't just walk into a library point in an empty space and be like a book is missing.
You have to there has to be like a Dewey decimal system indicating that there should be a book there.
Yeah, and this and then this way. Like so there is alienation that occurs right in language because there's still like some partial naming. But I think it's like the thing that doesn't happen is like separation. And I think this is where he talks about like how the father's law is acknowledged only partially, right, So it's like the pervert knows the father has not imposed full castration, but stages it through others. So like that's where like the
staging comes in. So it's like because whereas obviously in the in the neurotic both things happen, and then obviously in the psychotic like not basically none of it happens. Although some alienation happens, but like it's not really it's
it's it doesn't really like fully happen. So then this is where like I guess the the the desire or the need to like stage things age law because it's like the full castration of the of the name of the father hasn't occurred, So like there's some kind of a drive towards like staging something that is imposing law.
¶ Renouncing Symbolic Recognition
Yeah, we are, I keep saying we neurotics. Neurotics kind of understand this stuff metaphorically, but the perverts have to do it with like physical scenarios almost. That's why you get That's why you get leather and whipped in chains and buttons and whatever the whatever the displacement comes onto or I have to go around and find a find a poor barber to pester.
Yeah, they have to force a limit somehow, they have to force a limit to emerge.
Instead of the symbolism and the metaphoric turn happening inside your head, it kind of happens in real life.
Yeah, And also it's interesting because I think this also has to do with like kind of the relationship to tow juissance to like an imaginary and the imaginary fallus, meaning like the penis as pleasure or something like that, like as versus like symbolic fallus, and like I think in the neurotic the like there's an exchange where like the neurotic renounces this kind of pleasure, like this material like or rather imaginary pleasure, like so the imaginary fallus
and exchanges it for the symbolic fallus. So neurotics are much more interested. And by when I say symbolic fallus, I mean like social recognition, self esteem, like being seen by others is having value, so you're kind of exchanging it and you're like, okay, well, like I will repress my like embodied pleasures in a way because I want to participate in this society where like other people are going to see me as like valuable and contributing to
this society. But the pervert like refuses basically that sacrifice,
won't hand over their imaginary juissance. They're like imaginary fallis, And I think, like that's that's like where there's like as as pills was just saying, like, we can think about it, but it's like we can kind of imagine that sort of, but it's like the urge, the drive to just like enact these scenarios is very much like at the level like I guess of like the image like imaginary like trying to achieve this kind of pleasure sort of the way that I understood it.
Yeah, so the neurotic, if the neurotics walking down the street, it's a hot day and there's a there's this there's a fine just a dime walking towards him, and she she's curvy, she's got one of those dresses, you know, the dresses that are made from that like the sweater material, so they're really there, form fitting, they're elasticky. It's hugging
her curves. And if she's she's walking towards you, and you know, you know that on the other side of that, there's an ass to match just rolling around rolling around in that dress. But as a neurotic, you know that you can't turn to look because there are other people around. Yes, yes, this did have a point. There's other people around, and if they see that, your head's on a swivel. As soon as she walks past, then they're gonna they're gonna
judge you, So you're gonna look like a creep. Your esteem comes from repressing swiveling around and checking out those beach balls that are bouncing around in there. And you're gonna keep your head forward, or you're gonna try to try to look in the reflection of a store window or something like that. You're gonna try to not get caught because you know that this is that the the
law is worth following here. But the the pervert, this is this is kind of a bad example because this is not necessarily gonna get the pervert off, But the perver won't. The perver won't care. The pervert's gonna swim around or swing around. He's gonna say, girl, I want to eat Thanksgiving dinner off that ass he wants actually, or depending on the type of perfect but he could want to provoke anxiety in her and get off on the anxiety provoked there.
Or I wonder, I wonder if if we okay we neurotics, Yeah, I wonder, because we all have a basic.
Level of per Maybe one of you is a pervert. I don't know.
Maybe we'll see but I think since we all do have a level we all okay, I'll volunteer, No, we all have a basic level of perversion, right, So maybe that's why we all enjoy that meme with the guy checking out the girl and then the girl looking at the guy really angrily because she's obviously like his girlfriend or something, and he's just like openly oggling some girl
that has just walked past. And we have so much fun with that meme, right, We put like the heads of companies and things on it and we play with
it all the time. But we all have that like but the neurotic again, you can see it in the symbolic there as a meme, but we all enjoy it because it's like a basic like perversion thing, right because like Freud says, children like young children are all polymorphous perverts, right, Like masturbation is the basic one of the basic things, right, Like the father comes along or someone comes along and says, like, you know, stop masturbating your your the father is going
to cut your penis off if you continue to do that, so stop.
And if I had a.
Pervert that yeah, of course, and so the neurotic will you know, make that sacrifice the neurotic will, but the pervert will refuse to make that sacrifice. Will keep the pleasure, right, won't, won't give it up like saying this is my pleasure and I'm not giving it over to the I'm not giving it over. So they don't like accept the law of the father on a symbolic level.
¶ Absent Father, Overbearing Mother
And that's why no, no, go, go go ahead and say the family.
I was just gonna say the family. The family looking structure of this is again it's not like prescriptive, but if it happens, it's usually something like overbearing mother, absentee father, the father doesn't the father or the father function doesn't show up enough. Yeah, exactly to separate my ego from my mama.
To set the law, to set the limits, like in the case study in the chapter that we read limit, Yeah, in the in the case study. Uh, there's a case study in the chapter of the Pinks book. And uh, it's like about like someone who has a very overbearing mother who almost treats him like a source of her pleasure, like I mean talks about I think in analysis he talked about feeling like his mother was using him as
a dildo, which is like really disturbing. But you know, I'm not like so so and then and and like and I think he would often be with her as a child when she'd be getting undressed and he would see her naked all the time, and she'd kind of give him little pet names like my little my little button or whatever.
And uh, and she didn't actually sexually abuse him, I think.
No, no, no, no, it was just like it was just it's just like just how he felt. Yeah, just just really overbearing who like had him at her side like the whole time in ways that it's not like actual sexual abuse, but it's just like suggestive and like kind of weird. She's just there all the time, and because he's a child, he's like seeing her naked and having weird feelings and she's kind of setting the tone of like how he feels about things in the way that they name things.
And I think and Alison even recalled getting off at one point during the changing routine.
Maybe yeah, there's like maybe some weird sexual feelings there that like as a child, it's like there and it all mixed up.
But barber chair friends, like the kids started getting off with it.
I wouldn't. I don't know if I would go that far, because like this is I mean, he's talking about being a child around age six five six, so this is like it would be like very nascent kind of you know, like rumblings of like libido, right that like weird feelings, you know. But I guess what I wanted to get to was like the father is kind of absent, like
like around but not really around. But how there's like a crucial memory he has when he had appendicitis as a child and he woke up and he remembered seeing his father kind of smiling at him, looking at him and saying like, oh, I've got your appendix here like in my hand. And how like this was supposedly in this case study, a pivotal moment where like I guess
he was prevented from being a psychotic. That that is like a key moment in that case study of like at least acknowledging that like the father's there and is like I guess aware, but hasn't fully instituted, like the law of the father, the name of the father.
When I read these, when I read these freaking psychoanalysis books, they always have like the perfect.
I know, I know, I thought the same thing to his dad.
Has a jar with his organ in it, and this represents the know of the father, Like, how the hell does this stuff really happen?
The appendix becomes like the the your dick's floating.
There's like I'm gonna I'm gonna castrate you. And suddenly he's not a psycho.
Yeah, here it is, I have, I have, I have, I have the exact I have the exact quote. It says.
Uh.
He wakes up to the site of his father holding Jean's appendix in a jar or Jean Jean's appendix in a jar, smiling radiantly at the excised organ. Jean never again plays along with his mother's treatments, right, refusing henceforth to be the penis for her with his whole body,
with his entire being. The father's presence at his bedside and approval of the organ removal seems to finally bring about a kind of displaced circumcision or or lost symbolizing castration, a first division or alienation between Jean and his mother. So the father bars or cancels out the mother here in the sense briefly described earlier.
Yeah, so if I was writing a novel, if I was writing a novel about castraight symbolic castration, it wouldn't even be that on the nose. And I know it so happened.
Yeah, And he goes on to talk about Jean's mother, you know, continues to view Jean's quote my little man, and lets him know that his penis is inadequate to give for everything she needs. She refers to his penis as tom petit boo your little end, or bit the
little suggesting too little. Often, however, she simply calls it tomboo your end, So like she's still like doing these weird, like playfully things that are like, you know, not exactly child abuse, but just kind of bizarre behaviors that are like overbearing.
Yeah, and then the second phase of that and then this is where you know, separation interrupted, right, like where the pervert structure kind of solidifies. Is that then the father he the the analys and there recalls overhearing the father refer to buttons, which sounds very much like you know, the French for like, what was it tomboo your your end,
your little penis thing? And then and then and then always that backwards, And he wasn't but he thought that the father was referring to the to the mother's genitals with bhutan, and so then he developed this fetish for buttons as a way of supplementing the name of the father. The father naming the mother's desire in this case, but because it's a case of perversion, that name didn't like.
It wasn't a full naming, it was ambiguous. The child wasn't sure, and you know this is kind of like okay, So the father does that, and then now the more
buttons the better for this guy. Now he chases women who wear like clothes with like rows of buttons, and the more buttons the better, And this becomes a way of supplementing the name of the father and like staging that separation that I guess was interrupted or wasn't completed because the father, the type of father Freud had in mind, was the father who like forcefully tries to separate the boy from the mother, and maybe something goes wrong in that,
you know, behind the father's back, the mother keeps winking at the father or the child and the child mother connection kind of stays intact and isn't fully separated. And but it's this forceful father and the pervert refuses to give up the separate to separate, but then think is like now, but we now need to we should focus on this like contemporary father who is like a weaker
figure than this forceful father. Maybe you know one of those like fathers who's kind of progressive and doesn't think that. They don't want to be the authoritarian. Yeah, they don't want to be the.
Back in the day, we didn't have so many perverts because we drank from the hose.
They want to be liked.
They don't want to be the one who does the punishment. They like want to be this like nice guy friends with the kid, not like the authority figure.
I mean, it kind of makes sense that there'd be less that there'd be less perverts in like a more authoritarian father culture.
He describes them, but he describes them so negative. I don't know the weaker figure and is often confused about his role as a father or the or like the weaker and indifferent father or something like that. This like different focus.
I don't know. It's at least helped sounds like James Dobson.
Bullshit, it's James Dobson. I don't even know who that is.
He's a Christian guy who says you should beat your kids.
I mean, look, I I obviously I definitely think. Uh, don't you think it kind of makes sense though, Like if this is like obviously, if if this is like how perversion forms, like, wouldn't it make sense where like when social customs were stronger and more universally like obeyed, and that fathers were more authoritarian, that there'd be like
¶ Symbolic Origin of a Fetish
fewer perverts. I don't know. That just kind of makes makes sense.
Now, how come on? Like, the problem is the mother is showing not even acknowledging the father at all. As soon as her son's born, she's like full on obsessed with her son. He's an only child. That's another problem. Yeah, I'm being natalist. You gotta have you got to have more kids so your kids aren't perverts.
But in the state, paternal function is the problem.
This this bouton thing, the button thing. The the name of the father. We usually think of it correctly as you know the father, Your father's going to come home, so we name him. But in this case, the name of the father, the father gives name to the mother's absence of a penis, so he names her Lac and he names it button. So this guy now has a fetish for buttons, because the more buttons he's got around him, the less likely his overbearing mother is to absorb him into well.
Amusingly too, he actually finds the appearance of a single button quite disturbing, actually, so specifically it has to be like and the more it's like a series of buttons all sewed together like a cross, He's like, that's that really does it for him.
I find this part of psychoanalysis so fast because just the tom and backwards is Bouton, and then Bouton in his unconscious becomes attached to real buttons like words. Words here are real life, which is kind of the thing that we can't really understand anymore, but that the fact that this can happen, it's still it's my favorite part of these examples because it's fascinating.
And what was the thing in.
The in the in the Vienna Freud movie, the tit mouse thing, those the words just come together like that, and the analyst has to notice these sorts of things like yeah, Tom boot being the reversal of Bouton, Yeah, and then do something with that.
The examples in this in these books, they're just too good, like how do you how do you have? This is better than a better than a novel.
And then there's the example of Hans, a little Hans we mentioned as well, the kid with the fear of the horses.
Now is because he's he's mentioned in everything, but is he a to figure out?
Yeah, I'm not sure.
And there's there's a perverse structure there that's pointed out anyway, is that in like the horse the phobia, the object of the phobia, the horse becomes like a name of the father, and that contributes to the separation of the
mother from child. Right, so that just like you were describing with the button guy, like you know, he's refused to be now the dildo anymore, and he's trying to stage this separation and for some reason the paternal function is insufficient because you know, the dad's a hippie or whatever.
And or just absent like or just like not around much, right, Like it's not it's not like I don't I see your I get your concern and like there, but but yeah, like it's not just about like it's not that politically, it's really more just about like somehow kind of absent.
¶ Perverts Stage Their Own Law
Well, yeah, it can even be the overbearing father, yeah, and just refuses to give up, like refuses the separation entirely. It doesn't matter in any case the paternal function, I mean in all of them, right, in psychosis, in perversion, and in even in those forms of neurosis, like the paternal function goes wrong somehow or it's like inadequate somehow, And in this case it's inadequate to separate. It's inadequate at the separation phase, and so the pervert has to
take it on themselves to stage that separation. And unlike the neurotic, who you know, can repress, right, so saying like okay, you know, I don't want to have sex with my mother's slash, sister, slash whatever, that impulse gets repressed or that well, the idea connected to that impulse gets repressed, and that affect, that impulse, that instinct, that sexual impulse gets connected to some other acceptable idea, right, because the super ego judges that to be you know, unacceptable.
And so then the neurotic has different levels like that that unacceptable idea sinks down into the unconscious and some other the symptom appears where that affect is connected to some more acceptable thing pervert doesn't have. That the pervert has like these two contradictory things. That's this split ego thing he refers to.
That's also that I know very well. But all the same, I'm going.
To yeah, exactly, yeah, that's that that and you know that's that's exactly talking about the fetishistic disavowal, like I know very well that it doesn't work, but I do it anyway kind of thing, like Gik loves that joke about it, right, so and that and is really yeah, that's so that is a perverse structure. And but then again it's questionable whether I mean think Think opens up this chapter on perversion saying, most clinicians do not see
many patients who can accurately be qualified. It is perverts psychoanalytic, analytically speaking, so it's not a super common thing in in everyday language. Yeah, everyone's a pervert. And like even in freudgen terms like children are perverts, right, Like masturbation
is a perversion. It's a it's a it's a non reproductive sexual act, which yeah, yeah, but but like an actual genuine pervert in the psychoanalytic sense of someone having a perverse structure and not having completed that separation phase is not super common.
¶ Diagnosing Structural Perversion
No, yeah, I don't think so.
And they're hard to detect is another one.
Hard to detect analysis very.
Hard, and a lot of the times they don't actually need analysis to well.
It's very it's very it's very interesting. The reason why they're hard to detect, right, because because it has to do with the fact that they always try to adopt this position as filling the other's desire. So in analysis, like the pervert will often try to stage themselves as like somehow like yeah, exactly, being the perfect analysm, like fixing the desire of the of the other, like to be this like object that kind of plugs the lack in the other.
Yeah, because the analyst is supposed to position themselves as the object, as the cause of desire, but the pervert refuses to allow them to adopt that position. So when the analyst is trying to just talk to them, like do the insight therapy highlight things about their what they're saying to them, the pervert doesn't want to have those insights. The pervert doesn't want the analysts to be able to inspire any kind of self knowledge I'm putting it in
my own words, which are probably bad ones. But that's that's the thing. The neurotic has a much easier time accepting the analysts, Like I guess this is transference, accepting the analyst as the object a as the object cause of desire.
But that's the thing.
The pervert wants to be the object ad. The pervert wants to be the cause of desire for the analyst. And so yeah, like you said, they will sort of do whatever the analyst wants. They'll like go along with it, but they'll refuse to let the analyst. They'll refuse that transference that's supposed to happen in psychoanalysis.
Yeah, exactly, so they Yeah, precisely, precisely. It's also interesting the gendered thing about like he talks about how it's diagnosed overwhelmingly in men only that like men are perverts, and I think.
Yeah, he says, he says virtually exclusively.
Yeah, and he might and he kind of I think he might have. I don't know if it's quoting if he said this, or if he was quoting Lacan and saying that like that men are like the weaker sex with respect to perversion. Maybe maybe that was like in the sense that, yeah, that that like they it's pretty much.
And the reason for that is because the mother son bond is just like more likely to be eroticized in like a in like a weird way, whereas the mother daughter relationship, it's it's it's way less likely to be in any way even implicitly sort of oh erotically charged around a specific organ right, whereas like in you know, perversions seems to be really related to like the penis and kind of like like this weird mother son and like strangeness with with the boys penis.
Yeah, the sons, the son's much more likely to see the father as a rival, and a daughter almost never would see their father as a rival.
Yeah, and the father has a much easier time apparently separating the daughter from the mother because he.
Just says he doesn't have to say no, she just she's like.
That, yeah exactly, so so like that so women so so women are are like much more are probably almost always going to be will neurotics or have psychosis.
¶ Case of the Female Masochist
Actually have an example of a female pervert though, if you want to another fun story. The reason I looked this up is because I wanted to, like in their own words describe what being a pervert is like. Because when we're dealing with the psychosis one, I was like, how could you not know if if you did not if you had the imaginary functioning as the symbolic, something has to be constantly going wrong, wouldn't you think? So this is I found a pervert Lacanian perfect diagnostic diagnosis
diagnosed female, also describing what it's like. So that's why I.
Found oh interesting.
But we brought up are the one thing we haven't brought up. We've brought up the becoming the object, and we've brought up the no the no father, the no nom nom no father. But this, uh, the law in general is kind of the important the law and the limit and the social law, and this is kind of something that they wouldn't be able to understand, which is why why all the acting out happens, Because all the acting out is trying to find like, where's the law?
Is someone going to stop me? Is someone going to stop me? Is like asking where's the father function? So they exactly they can also recognize that they're looking for this, and then in some cases, in the sadest case, they become a pure instrument of the law, and they get off on being appearance.
To me, yeah, and like, and I think it's important too that that like for the for the pervert, like intellectually they obviously understand social laws, they understand, it's more about like is it entrenched in their psyche in their psyche, right, Like.
They know they're there, but they don't feel them.
Like they don't feel them exactly, and that's why they're They try to stage these scenarios where they can and actually, like I guess one way to sort of sum it up, it's like, you know, the mechanism is kind of disavowal I know very well, right, But then the position is like the pervert stages the paternal law where it's weak or absent, so they make the law exist by putting themselves in the place of the father rather than submitting
to it. Right, So they keep trying to find these scenarios where they can find the law by basically like being it, trying to find limits. And then they relate to the other by trying to be the object that plugs the other's lack. So they try that and this often produces anxiety in the other and they kind of want that rather than kind of acknowledging their own anxiety.
That'll come up in my story here.
Yeah, good, I want to hear the story.
Quote quote. She remarked often in this context that all of her life she'd felt like her way of experiencing was different from everyone else around her. She could get very heated up, passionate and interested in people things, but it was always transient, like it never really mattered. This is a quotation from her. If only I could at least hate someone, she said, because she felt she could not.
Her whole life had been organized around the bidimalized ego interests rather than proper affects and feelings or object relationships. So I found that that's the first part of it. There's not they're kind of watching themselves do stuff instead of feeling the connection to the things that she notices. It seems like everybody else everybody else feels. So then she goes on. But she solves this problem by finding
what her her fetish is. As all I'll read quote, she'd always been fair to everyone but involved with nobody. From all this material, it was possible to see very clearly how throughout her life she'd been two people, one who lived in reality, largely reactive to others, quite gay and with a gay gay happening. This is written in the seventies, quite gay and with a tendency to get run down every now and then. And the other her other half, who had stayed very latent and unknowable to
herself until these two affairs. So the affairs she has, I'll just bring up one of them, because one's with a language teacher and the others with a mechanic. And it repeats, so it's again that that compulsion. So her very theatrical affair with the with the mechanic. It's funny, it sounds, it sounds precisely like the script to a porn because she she goes to the mechanic, her car's not broken, but he's looking at the car, he's looking
under the hood, and then she just starts yapping. So she's yap, yep, yep, yep, yap until she can see that he's getting annoyed. And the mechanic says, like jokingly at first, like can you shut the fuck up, or I'm gonna tie I'm gonna tie a rope around you, or I'm gonna tie a gag around your mouth. And then she goes, yeah, we'll do it, So they end up actually doing it, and then he gags her and ties her up and rapes her. I don't know what
the term for, like performance rape play. They do a rape play, and then she keeps going back to the mechanic like I don't know, however often she can, however often she can get away from her husband, and every single time they act out this little this little play. So this is finally the time, the first time where she feels like that other person who is herself, that doesn't live in reality, that's been unknowable and latent. This is the first time that actually feels like it's working.
I guess would be kind of the terminology, So that would be the undiagnosed pervert to realizing you're a pervert. Is you now found this thing that you need and you actually can't get off any other way. But similar to the other stories, this one is a masochist. But the gagging thing is really important to the analyst who wrote this out because you taking away your speech is becoming an object and then obviously becoming the object of
juisance for the other It's the performance thing. Like I said, it's a bad porn and then to get him to respond to her, she has to just keep blabbering on while he's trying to fix her car until he comes and punishes her. So she finally gets to realize the law by by this little theater play that she puts on finding out where the line is.
Then that something like that, that kind of fetish for being gagged and rape play is an attempt to prop up the paternal function to establish law, to get the other to pronounce the law. There's the insufficient paternal function is being propped up stage. They're imagined here, and the idea is that separation, like the normal neurotic kind of goes through for the pervert, separation is still the key
thing here and separate. There's an anxiety at play, like separation is hard, separation is anxiety provoking, but on a deeper level, separation is actually a huge relief. It's like,
you know, separation is a kind of freedom. But the problem is you get I guess there's the pervert has separation anxiety at the same time, and so there's there's a working through of that anxiety by staging separation through this propping up of the paternal function, this attempt to get the other to lay down the law, this sort of taking it into their own hands and acting it out in this play acting kind of thing, propping up
the law and limiting jewy songs. It's funny. The neurotic views jewey sauce as something like negative, as as something The neurotic views jewy sauce as something that's not.
Yeah, it's subversive. To have too much jewy sance is like, uh, is uncomfortable for the neurotic, I.
Think, and yeah, And the neurotic hears something like that about a pervert and thinks, oh, look at how much jewey soance the pervert has like access to.
There's one In.
Reality, it's very anxiety provoking the whole thing. It's not like it's just this amazing walk in the park, Oh my god. Perverts are just more in touch with your sexual selves. It's not like that at all.
So there's a way in which like the pervert is
¶ Enjoyment in Enforcing Law
like aware of some truth that that like that that neurotics like to deny, which is like the jewy sons associated with authority right and like and like and and how like neurotics will be outraged. Example, when if like a judge kind of says, uh, you know, you're so despicable. If I could have sentenced you to like one hundred and fifty years, I would have because what you've done
is like so horrific. And it's like for the neurotic that'll kind of make them uncomfortable because for them, they think that the law is supposed to be this like impartial thing that's real and like this idea that like there could be kind of or like enjoyment, there could
be enjoyment in punishing someone. Right, that is like very uncomfortable for the neurotic that like we might enjoy like you know, and like the kind of jewey sance we get from like enforcing laws or like think about you know some hall monitor who like you know, in their identity, they're like, well, I'm just like I'm just following the rules.
I'm just doing what the But but like I think the pervert sort of is really in touch in like an extreme way with like the jewey sance associated with that, right that like there is actually huge Jewy sance in like the laying down of the law.
Yeah, and like the pervert revels in finding that the moral law is like the law isn't actually just this like objective moral code that it's like rooted in vindictiveness, and they're trying.
To create it.
They're trying to they're trying to find it though like a weird in a weird way, like.
So they almost want them to admit that there's a satisfaction. Like the pervert, you know, it finds in prison that they're like these angry guards that will like beat them and stuff like that, and be like this is evidence that there's that there's enjoyment happening here. It's not just like objective justice being administered.
There's like this.
Vindictive almost like like glory glorying in the punishment, and it becomes this thing, I don't know, it becomes again this like perverse sense of justice, right.
And considering the perverts can be certainly cruel based on this like law thing, but it's because they don't get it. They don't get the law the way that a neurotic does. Because neurotics are obsessed are obsessionals at least they're obsessed with.
The law, yeah, and being seen to be good and conforming to it and seen as as as like a good example of it by others in society, like they're obsessed with the scheme of others.
Like kantient ethics is like the example of the neurotic moral code, right, Like kantient ethics is dispassionate, detached, universal objective.
Right.
And he says here Sperbert seems to be cognizant at some level of the fact that there is always some jewy songs related to the annunciation of the moral code.
That wants what morality is in a made up sense. But even we yeah, we take it seriously in our action, but we realize that it's a game. But even knowing it's a game, you can't actually go out and behave like it's a game. You have to exactly take it seriously. The neurocity. The neurotic knows the rules and takes the game very, very seriously. Not life or death, but pretty close the life or death. Now, the distinction there is the psychologist's.
Supposed to take pleasure in passing the judgment.
Yeah, the psychotic doesn't recognize the rules of the game or that there's a game, but the pervert does. And the pervert treats the game as a game, the game that we all realize is a game, but we take it very seriously. They're able to go into the game and also choose not to take it seriously, to play
it like and that's that's very scary. Sometimes in some cases that's can be scary for a neurotic, and a neurotic looks at them either with envy or fear envy, because like, look, they get to get off however they want. They're getting off and they're not feeling any shame for it, or they're taking pleasure in this and not apologizing for it. So there's a kind of a there's a kind of
we can't or I keep saying we I'm sorry. The neurotic can't really get that, and that kind of makes certain responses like judging them as evil or judging them as or fearing them. One thing we forgot to bring up that I wanted to on this point is the paradigmatic history writer. Example of the psychotic was Judge Schreber, who had a psychotic breakdown and get locked into the
asylum for the rest of his days. But the example of the pervert the same, always quoted, oft quoted, literate educated example is the Marquis de Sade, for whom Sadism is named. But all the ink spilled over, I don't know, fear and concern about about Marquis de Sade being read, his books getting banned. All of that is this kind of fear that the neurotic have of the pervert, and he kind of figures is that.
There's a tendency for masochistic perverts like masochists to seek out incarceration because of the fact that they will get like they might get brutalized and punished at least in some way, and they like.
That, like the the Marquis de Sade did and then had his wife smuggle dildos.
So it's like it's like a substitute symbolic crastration seeking out incarceration for masochists because they can't have that true symbolic castration otherwise they'd be neurotics. And and this and then this is the lecon quote recourse to the very image of castration can come as a relieving, salutary solution to anxiety for the masochist. Again that that anxiety associated with separation, but then that like deeper relief that separation is supposed to bring, that they don't have proper access
to for some reason or other. So kant is cont
is compared there with the with the masochist. But but maybe it would be the same thing for the sadist because it's the victim's anxiety for the sadist that becomes the focus, not that not maybe not I guess that would be connect to their own anxiety obviously, but it's about causing anxiety and someone else, right, Like they don't know if they're going to They revel in creating a situation for someone where like there's possible torture, possible death,
but it's all kind of vague and uncertain, and that's what creates you know, their whatever, their victim. That's why you can't really like a sadist can't deal with a masochist, I guess, because there would be no that would just short circuit the whole thing.
It wouldn't work.
The fantasy would not work with a sadist and a masochist.
No, because they're both trying to be the object. Yeah, yeah, exactly, loop.
Exactly why I love it. Where there's that joke, remember that joke where it's like what did the what did the massacists say to the sad sadist and he's like uh when he when he asked him, he's like hit me. And then the sadist says, no, there you go, so.
¶ Trump and Perverse Tendencies
They just part ways. It's like the at the social club.
Exactly exactly I was gonna. I was gonna kind of make my fun case for for for how we might see Trump as as as a as a pervert. I don't know, is that is it an appropriate time for me to to make my case?
Yeah?
Oh okay, It's definitely an appropriate time here in the UK because it's going.
To Okay, So when it comes to like law and authority, I think we could see Trump in a way as like presenting himself as like lawgiver. Right, He'll always say things like I alone can fix it, only I can do X. And he also doesn't respect institutional norms. Right. He repeatedly stages authority, so even in defiance of things like constitutional checks. So I think we could say that this is kind of matching like a perverse stance of
like creating law in place of a weak father. Right, He's like kind of like he's subverting all these things, okay,
and then also disavowal. I think it's kind of fun Trump frequently enacts a kind of weird disavowal in the sense that I don't know if like in the same sentence, he'll be like, I know very well, all the same, but it's like, think about like the way he exaggerates things all the time, right, But then he'll obliquely insist on them even if he acknowledges their exaggerations, and he'll say things like, oh, everyone knows this, no one's done it more than this, And it's like he'll get pushed
on it sometimes and he'll be like, yeah, like I know, I know, but then he'll just keep doing it. Right, so he'll kind of like admit that he knows the truth, but then he'll still say like, but this is the greatest thing ever bad. No one's ever seen it, no one's ever seen anything like it, and it's like okay.
So then there's also like relation to the other's desire, So I would say that like maybe in when he's at rallies or whatever, he positions himself as an object of desire or juissance for the crowd, right, so he's always claiming that he can fill in their lack right about immigration elites decline, right, he he offers himself as their fallus, right, that kind of their missing piece, Like, as I said before, like only I can fix this, only I can do that. And then uh, you know
there's like the refusal of sacrificing his juissance. Right, He's obviously known for not giving up pleasures, right, money, status in exchange for symbolic respectability. In fact, it seems like he doesn't really care about symbolic the symbolic fallus. He only cares about the imaginary the pleasure. Right.
Yeah, you can think if you maybe he doesn't like having this gaudy gold bathroom or whatever, but he gets a gold bathroom because that's what other people think rich people should do. Yeah, the imaginary fallus is the gold bathroom exactly.
So that's kind of like my case. And then obviously, like there's obviously arguments against it. I mean I think that in a way, like the one thing that's sort of missing is like he does actually seemed to be quite obsessed with social standing and that is not perverted, right, Like, so that is very very neurotic obsessional like to like he's obsessed with the media ratings. So you know that's kind of a mark against him actually, being a pervert, but it's still fun. I think it's a fun case.
Yeah, I can see that because it's got that like the twofold attitude towards the father. Maybe Trump has this like the naming is not complete, the legislating of the law is not complete, and yet he's constantly staging naming and annunciation of law. I think that sounds a bit like what you were saying. He's constantly harping on this or that institution being insufficient. The Democrats right now are quite under fire.
He's certainly he's certainly he's certainly acting in perverse ways. I would say, right, like that's I would say, like he's he's acting in perverse ways. But it's obviously impossible to know. Well, you know, I should have said it before. Obviously the caveat is like it's really bad form to like try to say quitalyize someone from a distance. I'm sure there's like a lot of potential reasons for why.
You know, he could just be a neurotic and be like you acting this way strategically, right, that like it's working for him, So he's going to keep saying shit like this, right, but it's not actually representative of what he you know, really feels or his actual kind of uh, sort of uncontrolled urges. But I think the behavior is perverse in this sense. I think we can at least argue the behaviors in a Lacanian sense somewhat perverse.
Yeah, just like the just because one of this, this pervert had a rape fantasy. I don't know a girl that doesn't have a rape fantasy. Yeah, I know, but it doesn't be there all perverts obviously exactly.
Yeah, we need to know, like there is a kind of literal sense and now I wouldn't say literal, but there needs to be some kind of attitude towards the father being. You know, in the in the psychoanalytics session, you have to get someone to tell a story, right, narrativize their life, and there needs to be some kind of father figure paternal function in there, and you have to determine this attitude towards it and whether this constitutes
some kind of disavowal. So who knows what this like eighty year old fucking man thinks about his father or I don't. I don't know what I mean psychoanalyzing some of that.
I think he's pretty clearly like a paranoid probablysial.
Yeah.
On the other hand, if we're if we're talking about Trump admint perverts, I can very easily picture Steven Miller jerking off while a bunch of Mexican migrants are performing Gone with the Wind or something, while he's forcing them, he's forcing them to He would get off on causing anxiety. He seems to take pleasure in suffering or being feared as being able to cause suffering, which would be a sadistic,
sadistic trait. He's just terribly like zero riz zero gravitas in when he speaks, So I'm not too worried about him. But he's he's a scary dude, so I wouldn't surprise me at all if you had.
Oh yeah, I also I was gonna.
Something locked up at his basement.
¶ Cinema as Perverse Staging
I was going to bring up as well, like Whyk's uh titles for his movies maybe makes sense. I guess what I was thinking is, you know, isn't the process of making a movie kind of a staging of fantasies?
Like it's sort of like you are creating like these scenarios that are like so in a way, like cinema itself is like maybe perverse and in a certain sense of like like what it because what it's doing is it's like showing, it's like creating very specific stagings of things of like basically he argues right through his analysis of the films like kind of ideological in his sense, like fantasy kind of representations. Right, So maybe.
Sounds really like Laura Mulvey. But the the thing is it's called the Perverts Guide, So it's like it's pervert perverted to watch him break it down, right, but.
It's also perverts Guide to understanding cinema. So it's like in the city. Yeah, you're right, I mean it's it's like the it does kind of imply that the the like the viewer is the pervert. I guess, not that cinema itself is perverted, but I guess I guess it's I was thinking about it. It's like kind of like a tour where like the guide shows you how films like Stage are unconscious fantasies, right, how they kind of show desire like more clearly than we can see ourselves.
So it's like the staging part, I guess was where I was thinking maybe, like like the it's showed, like the perversion is in the showing like the kind of obscene underside of law morality in enjoy like. So it's like by analyzing film we can kind of reveal the arbitrariness of like ideology maybe which is obviously with what the pervert does, because the pervert doesn't believe in or doesn't even understand the law like or like you know, like the kind of subversion.
Maybe it's because the pervert needs it explained, needs the joke to be explained to them.
Yeah.
Maybe, And we're all perverts in the sense that we're not going to be looking into movies that hard.
Yeah yeah, maybe. Yeah.
Maybe you have to be a pervert to care about movies enough to watch a breakdown of scenes by a Slovenian man.
Obviously he's trying to be provocative to you with that name. I mean, it's a funny name, Pervert's Guide.
It's better than Theotics Guide to Cinema.
I remember, I remember I had like way back in like two thousand and eight. I think the psychotics guy I had I was working at like the Source basically radio Shack and for those non Canadian listeners, but it's called the Source here or was. I guess it still exists. And this is back when I had a bunch of like ripped movies on a hard drive, I think, and I like had downloaded, like pirated a bunch of stuff.
I was really into pirating movies back then. And my coworker, I think, like for some reason, I like arranged to like give him a bunch of my pirated movies, and one of them was the Jijik's The Perverts Guide to Cinema, I think. And this coworker, who's like not at all into philosophy, but just like Sawden, was like, Oh, what's this. This sounds like fun, And I was like, I don't know if you're gonna like it's not pervert in the sense that you're thinking I think.
I think, yeah, I think the Perverts Guide thing the pervert reference is is to fantasy. I think that's the important point because when when Fink describes the Sadist, he says it's in his fantasies. He views the victims anxiety as an absolute condition necessary if they are to provide pleasure. But what is crucial in fantasies is no more than a screen, right, So the fantasy is just this empty thing, not really empty, because it's what's important for the pervert.
But as we see, the neurotics moved on to the to the symbolic, symbolic castration and speech.
Right, it's kind of like the neurotic can get off, can get off just by watching a film on a flat screen, but uh, the pervert has to act it out like a like a theater, like a stage play.
Yeah, like seeing on the like and what does do on the perverts guide, Like he's literally on the screen, Like when when it's like The Titanic, he's like lying in one of the bunk beds, like he's in every scene he puts. He like walks into the films, he's all literally.
He's in the rowboat for they.
Like the most hilarious spots. And when he's in there too, like just explaining the film from like some random position in a scene in the in the movie.
And of course you know there was definitely enough room for both of them in this both but he has to die.
Yeah, with no comment on why he's positioned that way. And then the rest of the time he's just he's just the neurotics guide to hegel. That's that's what he is the rest of the time because he's just either on a podcast, speaking on YouTube or talking to you
¶ Wrapping Up Lacan Series
and as Vera fawks or something. Yeah.
Yeah, well guys, uh, good place to end it.
Yeah great, that was fun. That was our our lacon series for now. Although I am let me say, let me strongly be arguing, okay.
If the patrons, if the patrons want us to keep going, I will definitely keep going. I just I'm feeling a wane and interest, and when I'm waning an interest, then I feel.
Like you w you will submit to the law of the of the patreon.
I will submit to the will the expression of the other. Definitely.
Well, let me make my pitch to the patrons. I would like to cover neuroses because it's most of us are neurotics, and I think we should talk about it eventually, not now, but eventually. I want to come back to it because I think it's the most relatable and it might hit closest to homes, which will be fun.
I think, so we can hysterical neuroses exactly.
Maybe I'm cutting it off here because I just don't want to want to explore that I can't look in the mirror. I can't stare.
Yeah, it's already hitting too close to home. Yeah that break too, So.
Yeah, I'm down. Well, maybe we'll do something fun. I've also been reading a lot of Lebanos lately for a paper I'm working on. I don't know if you guys have ever done that, but we could maybe do that.
He's kind of boring, but Christian Heidger I prefer Nazis Jewish hidiger over this shit the face almost.
Yeah, Hi about other people matter.
Now, yeah, exactly. Ethics is first philosophy, not ontology.
Exactly.
All right, Well cut her there. Thanks guys, looking forward to hear the the remarks here. But that's uh, what is that number number six of the condom?
Please write to us, Please write to us if you feel like it and telling us. If you're a pervert, tell us about it.
Yeah, we gave you the Neurotics Guide to the Pervert, and we're looking for the perverts Guide to the Neurotics Guide to the Pervert.
What's that word? I forget bonified?
Bonified?
Well maybe not maybe not a pervert? Maybe not.
Some of these words here, pedophilia, frauterism, to surism, transvestic fetishism.
Okay, I like that. I like scopophilic. Scopophilic. We It's basically a peeping tom, but apparently there's a feed where you can't. It's not just peeping time, Like you want to see your neighbor naked, so you climb up a tree. It's like, you can only get off if they don't know that you're watching.
Oh, that's fine. I wonder what about the opposite where you can only get off if you, if you, if you, if you like, know that they see you seeing.
Them like cuckoldry. Yeah, anyway, we're done.
And you're detecting the thingst but we're done here, folks.
Yeah, you have to know that they're anxious. That's that's a kind of weird. That seems sadistic, literally a little bit right right, take care, all right,