Babner, we've had another look at some upcoming devices this week, particularly the Pixel 10 Pro Fold and nearly messed up the name there. Still think the naming convention is terrible. Horrible. It's horrible, yeah. I think it kind of, I think with these devices that we've seen the renders and leaked renders of, I mean, it's a little bit underwhelming that there's not many design changes, but I guess it makes sense. And what? How do you mean?
Like, I think it makes sense in that we have Google has settled on a design and they've said to themselves, we're going to run with this design. This is what we want. When we saw that squared off look last year, we were a little bit, I guess some people were disappointed that they were falling into the iPhone trap. I mean, you tell me, how do you feel about it? We've talked about this a little bit on the pod, but I can't remember what you've said to me before.
Do you think that was a right decision to kind of like, hey, we're going to settle on this design. This is what we're going for. This is where the industry is kind of heading and we're going to a little bit... follow suit a little bit more? Does it kind of give up their identity? I think the way to think about the design, which again is iPhone-esque, is to view it as a platform, as a design platform that Google can build on.
And I think this rounded edges, flat rails, flat back, I think beyond allowing them to... to to stabilize a design and allows them to build on it for a few years so they can focus on other areas and i think one of the key takeaways we had at launch last year was that It fits people's expectations, for better or worse, of what a phone is. I think there's some value and familiarity in letting people get comfortable with something and being able to excel.
in other areas like we'll talk about but yeah i think it's you can almost view it as a platform and like let's let's let's aim that a little bit more towards the pickle 10 pro fold because obviously if you have if you're out there and you haven't seen the leaks yet effectively is
It's all but the 9 Pro Fold with a new name. I'm kind of happy about it. And I think one of the major reasons why I'm a little bit happy about it in terms of like the hardware is... i like the fact that potentially we're going to be able to use the same accessories again and if you currently have the 9 pro fold if If Google then introduces some new accessories next year, there is a potential that we're going to have like...
what's the best way to how would you describe it because it's like back backwards compatible yeah backwards compatible accessory ecosystem and potentially things that get added as like and it's one of the biggest complaints i think actually um i'm having like 20 thoughts at once about it in terms of accessories with the pixel series i think we kind of complain about it a little bit in the
we don't get enough high quality accessories. I wonder if this is a way to kind of bring more people on board, bring more of those high quality accessory makers on board because... Not everybody upgrades every year and potentially if a load of people then upgrade from their older models. they could sell two times as many, right? Does that make sense to me? That's definitely another aspect of the design last year, besides it being a bit more durable.
It helps accessory makers make cases. The flat back, they don't have to account for the curves on the... something like the 8 Pro that does help with accessories I guess to take a little bit of devil's advocate is it's It's maybe too much of a trap to... to keep the same exact design in hopes of making sure accessories work year after year. You don't want to be limited.
by these exact dimensions. Unless Google thought about this generations ahead, unless they decided that they were going to do this. They're going to keep the exact same dimension so they can keep accessories. That might be a bit of a tricky route. But yeah, I think... We've seen, like you said, to move on to the broader family, we've seen these exact same designs. It's, I don't know, cover maybe. They can distinguish on cover. But...
So as is, it's kind of wild how the 9 and the 9 Pro, and I assume the 10 and 10 Pro, they're really the exact same device separated by one gram in terms of weight. It's pretty wild. I think it's – I mean, I don't think we've really had this in Android for a long time. Like even when we look at Samsung, they've made enough – chassis or physical changes even though the phones may look similar i don't i can't think of any other example of this where it's literally been
fractions of a millimeter the exact same design and like you say a gram in a gram in it and that could be that could just be from removing a certain weighted component like I can't imagine, I can't think of this in the mobile space, probably. I don't know, maybe during the iPhone 4S era, 4, 4S. Maybe, yeah. Even those, there were some, I don't know, maybe they were the exact same dimensions. But I guess it...
It's a good thing in certain respects because Google can therefore account for it. Maybe they've said we've settled on this sign for a couple of years just so we can kind of get consistency. And I feel like... I mean, you only need to go online and read the plaudits that the 9 series has received. I think it's probably the best received Pixel series, even though I think I was a little bit trepidatious before it came out. I thought, oh, the following's like...
I've said it earlier, falling into a little bit of a trap of following the way the industry goes. But maybe that was the trick all along. I do wonder how it will be perceived by... the buyers. Like I know some people are stuck on the Pixel 8. I say it's not stuck. They're just currently using the Pixel 8. They may be coming up to that upgrade cycle now and they're thinking...
Well, why would I get the 10 when that comes out when I can potentially get the nine at slight discount? It's the same bone. for all intents and purposes. But yeah, there's going to be a lot of question marks when August rolls around, which is still the expected timeline of launch.
It's not without changes, is it? I think there are some minor changes that do make sense. Like for me, I think the SIM tray moving to the top of the phone. I'm a little bit disappointed that it's not at the bottom. I think that's the best position, but...
Like if it means we get an extra speaker or an extra microphone, I'm all for that. I don't know. Are you the kind of person like me who blasts podcasts out of the phone or are you just constantly wearing earbuds? Earbuds, absolutely. You have a little bit more respect for each round. to continue on the hardware front then there's talks with the camera so I think starting Okay, how has the 9 Pro camera been for you?
It's been good. I do think there's some fixes that need to be done, and I hope that that's done on the processing side. I don't like the fact that you take an image, and some Android phones still do it, where you take the photo and what you see in the viewfinder and what comes out at the other end is a little bit...
It's different. Like I wish the post-processing could be at least toned down or kind of you get a realistic expectation of what it is. But yeah, no, I agree with it. But fantastic. Apart from that, I just wish that we had that like real-time feedback. Mm-hmm. So I guess the main thing here is the 9 adding a telephoto camera, three lenses. It even further distinct, resens the... the difference between the 9 Pro we were just talking about the weight but I the price
I don't think they can roll the price. Does it make it more enticing, though, if it's $799 again, like in dollars, pounds, euros, whatever it is? I feel like does that... Let me try and put it in a political sense. I think it softens the blow of like, oh, you're not going to go to the thousand dollar, thousand pound regular pro. What are we looking at in terms of like, what's the zoom on? what how much of a zoom are we getting so on the pro it's a 5x that's an appreciable thing um
I question what this telephoto will do. But it really... I don't know, there's a blur, the 10 and the 10 Pro. So I assume they'll keep the RAM differences, some display differences. There's obviously the price. it yeah it does make the 10 pro sorry the 10 the base 10 a better value especially if they keep the price especially it's i don't know i think I wonder as well, though, actually, you mentioned price, and I didn't even think of this until you've mentioned it.
I wonder if reusing that design again, making some very minor changes, allows the... because obviously you're not having to manufacture a brand new shape and size or whatever it is and you don't have to put all of that infrastructure in place you're effectively reusing that design again making very very minor changes to your molds and all that kind of thing it allows them to put these things in like this potentially 3x. I think it would be 3x, to be honest, on the regular 10 rather than 5x.
Maybe they'll be able to make those savings elsewhere so that you can get more for your money. Does my reasoning make sense there? I know I'm picking it up on the fly, but maybe that's one of the biggest things for it. Maybe that's why the decision has been made. The non-pro always has better colors, so maybe that's something to look forward to. I'm just curious how they market it because the base 10 getting more pro wasn't on our...
wasn't on our radar. And I'm very curious how they advertise it, how they push it. It's... Honestly, well, I don't take my word for it. As somebody who wants a small pro phone and finally got the 9 Pro, I'm wondering... whether it makes sense to even have a 10 Pro or a small 10 Pro versus just a 10 Pro XL. How closely are you going to?
It's just how they're going to distinguish it and whether there's enough software difference to justify those two lines because obviously the best thing, cheaper is better. And if Google... has a very attractive package at a small price. There's some risk of cannibalization going on, but they should absolutely go for the cheap thing with mass market share. I think looking into this leak a little bit, the...
It looks like there's going to be some changes to the sensors on the camera, and it looks like there's going to be a lot more alignment with the Pixel 9a, which we still don't have yet, and we'll chat a little bit about that at the end. Sorry, not publicly available. You can pre-order it right now from a few sites. It looks like...
the 50 megapixel main sensor would take a slight downgrade and would be potentially the same as the 9A, which I guess would reduce some costs. Which is the same as the 9 Pro Fold. Well, officially, the 9A has a similar sensor to the main sensor of the 9 Pro Fold, but it's been tweaked, I assume, around the size dimension.
Mm-hmm. Which I guess does make sense given the, as you say, the minuscule dimensions of that. And obviously there's no information on whether the new one will effectively utilize that, but it's expected. The downside is that it seems like they're going to drop the ultra-wide, so the ultra-wide is not going to be as good, potentially, as it is on the nine. So... That one, I think that seems a little bit short-sighted in some respects.
you're basically getting the 9A's cameras on the 10, and then you get that telephoto on top. So I wonder what that then happens, a knock-on effect of potentially the 10A, if we do get a 10A. It's confusing, but I guess once these devices, once we start to learn more about this device, it will start to make a little bit more sense. But I guess... To go back to your point about pricing, if you have such a close core product as the previous 9A, then from a camera perspective anyway.
You have to differentiate it by having that third lens. So maybe that's how Google's going to do it this time around. And then, like you say, you wanted that small pro phone for a long time. I know a lot of people have. I'd love to know what Google sales figures are like for the regular pro. I'd imagine the Pro XL will still be the big docs. I mean, figuratively and kind of logically as well.
The fact that those don't get any upgrades at all and have the exact same system according to this latest leak, and again, we're working with leaked information here, there is potential for it to be wrong. Not that we... we will we perceive it to be wrong just getting the regular 10 pro and tempo excel if you're going to get these same exact experience bar some tuning with the new chipset
I think if you've got a Pixel 9 Pro and a 9 Pro XL, you're in a really good place at this point in time. I guess I don't think a lot of people will upgrade, but... The upgrades last year, they weren't necessarily substantial over the 8 Pro, but yeah, I think a lot of people with the Pixel 8 Pro were looking at the 9 Prox and a little bit disappointed that they didn't get 8K resolution for video boost, all that kind of stuff. It seemed like it should, in theory, be capable of doing it.
Yeah, it's a strange, it's a really, really strange one. I do, I would love to sit in a meeting, like an all hands kind of meeting and understand what Google are doing with their hardware with the grads of Pixel. maybe it'll become clear in the next few weeks. I don't really know. Yeah, to not rehash what we talked about last week in terms of the software experience, it really comes down to... This Tensor G5, which will be made by TSMC.
I kind of don't think Google talks about it that much. I mean, every year they have a... How they talk about their chip is not to date. They really don't talk about it. There's a chance of that changing since it's much more custom. They designed it and all that with the Tensor G5. But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they really... Don't make it a focus of marketing. But maybe they do because there is apparently a custom ISP for this device. Yeah, I can see that. I don't know. But then how...
It's a strange one, isn't it? They won't talk about it as a performance reader in terms of CPU, GPU, because it isn't. I don't think anybody's expecting that. how they use it for on-device AI. And the ISP, as you were saying, that's something that they can talk more about. But it's, I don't know. Don't expect them to really go full Apple in which they dedicate a portion of their keynote to talking about the chips and under the hood.
Yeah, I just don't see that. That's not typical Google, and it's just historically. They don't spend that much time in keynotes. product pages talking about the chips and If that's the main hardware change, the main hardware improvement. That makes the jobs a little bit harder this year. Next year. No, this year. This year. I was going to say next year. We're wishing time away. Maybe this is the year that that changes, though, I guess.
Because obviously if we're looking at the exact same design, how would they sell the exact same design again? Unless I agree with you, they could differentiate it with color. and different colours of the phones. I know that they've obviously, the last few years, was it the last two? Did they do a, did they do a, they haven't done a new version of the nine. No, I'm being an idiot. They did a mint version of the eight. which I think is still the best color of the eight. I wonder if they just go...
And obviously, because it's manufacturing the same shape, it all comes back to that, I guess. Maybe it's a cost-cutting measure so they can add more colors without the actual upfront R&D there. That would make a lot of sense if they said, okay, we have six colors this time, seven colors for the Pro. And five, six, seven colors for the regular. And we get the full gambit of Google's like. kind of pastel color palette that they've been working on over the last few years.
and bring back some old favorites. Maybe that's what they could do. But at the same time, is a color of a phone going to sell it? I'm going to say no. I agree with you. Software is going to be important, right? To just touch back on the hardware, how do you, I mean, this is what's happening. If we go like Apple for a few generations, they had an S cycle, major, minor. How do you feel about that with the pixel? Which, I mean, it seems like that's what's happening. But a major, minor cycle is...
Can the pixel support that? Is there enough interest for people? I don't know. I guess from a brand awareness perspective, it might be a good way to do it because obviously you have a recognizable shape and size and in marketing, it's easier to market your entire lineup as opposed to one device. Yeah, I don't know. It's a tough one. I think from someone who wants to see new form factors and maybe sees changes. Probably not.
But at the same time, I can kind of see why they settle on this one now. I think having used the Pixel 9 on and off over the past, I mean, it's well over six months now. We're very, very rapidly approaching. um a year and i think some of the shortcomings are
to be completely honest, still related to minor things I think they should fix. I think there's so many little things they could do to make a major difference to how the experience of Pixel improved software still needs a lot of work in some areas. But I think changing out the chipset is a good start. But for me, I think I can deal with the same chassis if they just improve. They need to improve the internals a little bit better.
Make sure it doesn't overheat at all. There's no risk of that. Tenser probably needs to be... Just below the upper mid-range chips, I think. For most people, people still want performance. I think you'll lose a lot of customers that don't necessarily... that can kind of want the best of the best but the people just below them who still want enough to do like gaming and things i think it'd be it's really important that google continues to do that but for me i think it's um
It's not a big deal. I think every two years, I think it softens the blow. Probably my overriding feeling is that... Anyone who picks up.
Say, let's use Pixel 9 as an example. If they know that next year... there's only a minor change to the design or no change They're not going to feel as bad about hanging on and going with an upgrade, because I know most people don't upgrade every year, but I think it seems more prominent in the Pixel community that people upgrade every single year, and that's because...
It feels like there's enough improvements. Maybe this is the first time in a while that people hang on more so than they have in the past. I don't know. I'm thinking out the problem out loud, and probably it's not the best way to do it. But I don't know. You're using the regular Pro. I use the Pro Excel, and I've used a Fold on and off.
I like the fold. I think there's some aspects of foldable phones I don't like, but if they're sticking with the same design, I can kind of understand why, because it does stand out in the crowd. That's a good thing. That's a thought I had. Okay, so the fold looks the same, is at the same time we're having... so much innovation in folding hardware especially across the pond China, Asia is
Was this a rest year? Does this not go even thinner? Does that work out for Google? Or does this time let them make a better one next year? Should they, yeah, should they have, is this the time to take this rest on foldables?
I don't know. I've just picked up the Pixel 9 Pro fold on my desk for... for everyone out there listening uh basically i'm looking at it right now and i do not think it matters that much how much thinner this this device can get i think for most people i think i could probably take another couple of millimeters on it on thickness to
increase the battery that definitely needs to be a priority unless they go for silicon carbon batteries and then size doesn't matter quite as much um i like the way this differentiates itself from the I forgot the name. It escaped me. Galaxy Z Fold series, Z Fold series. I like the way that Google's differentiated themselves from the Z Fold because...
that design basically hasn't changed. Like, they've made a few changes in terms of, like, internal display and stuff like that, but that has not changed. And I guess when we're looking at it at a macro level... Samsung doesn't change their designs very often, right? So maybe Google has listened to the industry at large, and that's not stopping or inhibiting sales of the Galaxy series or the Galaxy Z Fold, Z Fold.
the A series of Galaxy phones, they just make minor tweaks. And maybe that's, and obviously iPhone as well is a very good prominent example. Whereas there's a lot of Chinese OEMs that just go from pillar to post, do random designs one year and there's no consistency in the design. I think maybe Western audiences seem to care about that. And I think with regards to the foldable.
as long as it's got a good screen as long as it has a good battery and the camera is pretty solid i think you can kind of forgo the fact that it isn't as good as a pro excel because you get that dual form factor i have no problems with the weight size and shape of the 9 pro fold i think if the 10 pro fold makes improvements in battery life then i'll be interested but the rest i'm not i really don't mind i think they've they landed on a really good design this time around
You love the passport. I know you love the passport of the fold. I don't want to hear what you think. Do you think that should have been the way that they went with it and maybe improve the internal screen and stuff? so yeah i i'm i'm still on the original fold i'm probably on a two-year cycle with that so the tempo fold is probably will be the one i take a look at but it
Yeah, I very much agree with your points. But at the same time, when you brought up Samsung, that's kind of a cautionary tale, isn't it? In terms of the... The enthusiast community, the reading edge, Samsung has kind of lost that mantle. It's...
Yeah, they've kind of lost its mantle. Yeah, but to interject there really quickly, do you think that, because I genuinely think One UI 7 is the best version of Android this year. Like, in terms of Android 15, I think One UI 7 is... practically the best and i found myself it's weird even saying that out loud Samsung's kind of differentiated themselves with software. So maybe this is the time for Google to just really knuckle down and be like, hey, we are the software.
And do that with the Pixel 10, be like, okay, let's start again. And that ties into what we talked about last week with Pixie, doesn't it? If they can do that, then they can completely almost... differentiate that way as opposed to try and do it with the hardware and the software at the same time like they have in the past maybe i don't know it's a strange one isn't it it does remind me uh we were
we the team are talking earlier this week and something that came up was fit and finish you were talking about how samsung fit and finish is almost underappreciated yeah definitely i think it's right i think In terms of Google's lineup, I think they've fixed a lot of the issues. I think there's a few things they could kind of resolve.
with regard to the screen but that's not necessarily their fault i think sometimes it's just how screens are manufactured but yeah if we can get that point where this year the fit and finish is as good as samsung I don't know. I think the world's the oyster a little bit. Throw in some high-profile marketing campaigns, even though it's the same design, and you could really start making some proper inroads. It all hinges on the Tenser G5, though, doesn't it, really?
I think because you do as bad as the enthusiast. audience can be i think you do need the enthusiast audience to kind of like oh absolutely almost almost be the early adopters and be the people who shout about the product And obviously, I guess we are the enthusiast enthusiasts. But then again, I do think there's a separation where people complain, oh, tech journalists say this.
But the real world is we want the best performance and stuff. And I agree to an extent. I do think sometimes people overestimate what they need in terms of like... power of a phone but at the same time i get it A lot of the products we do get sent for a few units and stuff. Obviously, I've purchased my own devices, S25 Ultra, Pixel 9 Pro XL, and The Fold.
And even I can say that there is a difference between the Snapdragon and the Tensor chip. There's just an edge there. So I can kind of understand if you're throwing down serious money for a device, you want the best of the best. And that's obviously where Google needs to start. Just genuinely start closing the gap. I know you would disagree with me to an extent, but yeah, I think it does hinge on tensor. I think a lot of people have.
negative feelings about it. And even if the software is incredible, there are still going to be some people that I can't because it has a tensor chip. I don't know. Maybe that changes this year, hopefully, to an extent. So, yeah, that's the... Again, I guess recap comes down to software. Especially on device AI stuff. It's for better or worse. It's Gemini. and how much they push what it can do. We're still waiting for Astra powered live camera and screen sharing.
The thing we learned this week is that it's still lowing out. One, and two, it will be available on any Android device that has the Gemini Advance subscription. I know when it was announced that the Galaxy S25 launch... We thought it might be exclusive to that or the Pixel for the time being, but that doesn't look to be the case. Yeah, we're still waiting for it. It's a very slow rollout.
I can totally see why they want to manage the server load of that's just streaming a lot of data, a lot of video. I could definitely imagine if you had like a million people join and start doing videos, it would cause some serious issues. But I'm excited to try it. Do you know anyone who's actually, I don't know a single person who's managed to get it on any of their phones. No, not personally. Yeah, it's compared to many other Gemini rollouts. It's pretty slow. It's pretty slow going.
But I think this is one of the most anticipated. Oh, absolutely. This is easily the most anticipated of Gemini Live probably. Period. And I'm excited. I really, really, really want to give this one a go. And it's a really good sell for Gemini Advanced. It's one of the best sells because for most people, I don't think having the top of the line model.
That speaks to them. But if Gemini Advance is really something this good, I think that this is a clear tractor, and it remains to be seen how Google is going to handle that one-year free Gemini Advance that came with the 9 Pro. whether people that buy the 10 Pro and previously took advantage of the last year's offer, whether they'll be able to redeem it again or whether it's a one-time thing. That'll be interesting to see.
I think Gemini Advanced is one of the clearer use cases, justifications rather, for paying for Gemini. Again, it comes down to whether it's how good it is, but... I think that it finally makes the price a bit worth it. Um, what is it? 18? I think it's 18 pounds 99 here in the UK. I cannot see myself paying that. I think if Google bundled it in, if Google did a bundle a little bit like a complete plan with like YouTube. YouTube Music, Gemini AI Advance.
Google One Nest Aware, which I already have with my Google One subscription. In the UK, that really hasn't gone anywhere else. Yeah, like if that was a thing they could do, I probably would pay. £30 a month, £40 a month, because I would get the actual perceived value out of it, I think. But then again, I guess I won't know until Gemini Live Astra is available and I get to test it for myself, I guess. It could be one of those things where... Yeah, it could be like Google ends.
Possibly. Yeah, yeah, possibly. I mean, do you genuinely think that it's going to stay behind a paywall indefinitely, or do you think they will, surely they will make it free to everyone at some point? I can't. I don't know. Like realistically, if they've done it with every single, almost every single Gemini feature so far, it would make sense to make it free, right?
At least on a limited basis, like five minutes. But that's the thing. I don't know what the best way to do limits on this. I don't know if everybody only got... 10 minutes per day. I just think that looks bad. If you limit the conversation, so again, long minutes, it's... But then again, it just seems super intensive, especially for... merely hundreds and millions of users potentially. This feels more limiting than anything else we've had.
I thought processes, if they don't make it free, then OpenAI will make their version on chat GPT free. And there's going to be a point at which people will make that. People will make a distinction and say, I'm going to go with the chat GPT version. That's my thought process. But I guess...
The more that Google integrates it, and it kind of alludes to something I've written today, is that I do genuinely think the more that Google integrates Gemini into these things, and you don't think about it as Gemini. the AI will bleed into the background, whereas I think people go purposefully to chat GPT. I don't think people think Gemini the same way, but I think this is one of the few times where...
Going to Gemini to get live camera access where you can get real time feedback on things and kind of problem solving in the real world is probably could be that killer feature that we've been waiting for. As you see, you've said it before, world facing camera. I think the first person to get out there and have it working in the real world is, I mean, it could be the million, it's a million dollar application, I think.
Will it work as well as I've seen in a demo, like a pre-planned and well-structured on-rails demo? Yeah, that is the question. I hope so. And I wonder if that is one of the reasons why the rollout has been a little bit slower to kind of account for it, get the data on board and trying to work out the kinks a little bit like. we kind of saw with pixel studio it didn't we had issues initially with people going beyond the guide rails and
They then quickly throw up them kind of blocks and stuff. Maybe that's what's needed. I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait. Hopefully it's in the next couple of weeks because I would really like to try it. I saw it at MWC and I thought, oh, by the end of the month, I'm going to be able to use this. And that hasn't been the case.
Yeah, interesting feature in general. I think it was the one that a lot of people were excited for at IO last year when they kind of hinted at it. But I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. It is a big project, I guess, like you mentioned, but there isn't much in terms of notable... reports of rollout right so yeah it's people definitely have it it's there are random people have in the wild but it's not it's far from wide it's absolutely far from wide
And I guess I wonder if, I mean, I doubt there is. The final thing we wanted to mention is that we've seen Gemini now has a new person at the helm, but I guess that wouldn't have affected the rollout. at all. That probably would have been not even considered, but I don't know.
It's an interesting time. We're going to learn more about the Pixel 10 series. I'm interested to see, like you say, how are they going to differentiate it? Probably going to be more software related this time around, which is good because we love talking about software. Is it going to be one of those things where they talk about it a great deal when the Pixel 10 series comes? Again, we don't know yet. But yeah, I just want to say thanks again for joining me, Abner. It's been...
Yeah, it's been a strange week. We haven't had tons and tons of information about these products. We're kind of like running on empty, but trying to do our best to kind of fill in the blanks. But yeah. It's been a strange one, like I say, but thanks for joining me and we will speak to you very, very soon. Bye.