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not a miracle, it's HubSpot. Visit HubSpot.com to get started today. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisho in the South of France. And I'm Scott Galloway and Ken. And we're not together though. Once again, we're in the same place. I can probably see your hotel from mine though. Really? I don't know. Don't look at my hotel. Anyway, I was just walking along. I was just
walking along, what's it called? The Quassette. The Quassettes. We have many fans here. A lot of selfies. We do. Yeah. It's nice. It's very hot. If people ask you where a scout, everyone asks me where a scout. Yes, all the time. And then they have a word or two for you. Either go to bed. Some of them love you, some of them don't. It's great. Actually, I have some thoughts I'll share with you later. Catalizing a dialogue.
Catalizing a dialogue. No, you know what? That's what they say. They say we're catalyzing dialogues. I interviewed John Legend and Chrissy Teigen this morning. Oh, how's that? They're the handsome as couple going. Very good looking. sharp attacks. They're real into activism, but it seems lovely coming from them. She's a pistol. I'll tell you that. She's just like she is on the Twitter. Although, she's
not on the Twitter anymore. But they're doing a lot of stuff around mass incarceration and women's about repetition. He's like, he's on concert tour. He's a lovely guy. He's playing tonight at the Spotify thing. Yeah. Yeah, they're supposed to be, they're supposed to be lovely and I agree with you. Occasionally, I see many of you are in there, both impossibly good looking and talented and, yeah, yeah. Yeah, very entrepreneurial.
They have a wine thing, they got dog food, they got food, they got, yeah, really? He's got a, he's got a baseline, he almost got some for you, a little facial situation. A baseline? Yeah, like it's called loving one, zero watts. You wanna know, my skin care routine? What? No, yes. At least once a week I splash water on my face. Oh my God, do you not have a skin care routine? I would think you would do that. No, I don't. I really don't.
I mean, occasionally I shoot poison in my face, so I look like I'm dead inside. Oh, okay. But it's called Botox. It's called Botox. But other than that, I'm aging not gracefully. I'm leaning into the ugly. You would be surprised. Guess who loves a skincare product? Care of swisher. I do. You have very nice skin. I do have a beautiful skin because I spend a lot of time with a big smite. I do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I do your right. I have spectacular radiant skin. I'm sorry.
I'm just channeling white men. Of course I do. Yeah, yeah, we're right. I do actually because I spend a lot of time with all the barber's sturmur, all that stuff. I do get nice health care. I mean, the facial area, so it's okay. Yeah, guys can get away with bath skin. They can. They can. Now I need to stand on my wallet. Is that wrong? Yeah. Is that wrong? It's wrong. I don't do that. That's the part I don't do. Skin care regimen instead. Anyway, here are the South events talking about her skin.
We have a lot to get today because we have a live pivot tomorrow. We do. We've got parties to go to. There's a lot of parties tonight. One of them that was canceled, which I'll talk about later, was a Washington Post one at the Elm Dore. Oh yes. He's canceled. Did that canceled? God canceled. Oh, I love that. You know, who is speaking of the news papers. You know, I ran into that, and I was Marith Levin. Levin. Levin. Levin. She's the lion. She's having a great time at the New York Times.
the Washington Post people. Don't they seem incredibly well run right now? Yes, they really are. She's like hitting it all cylinders. Yeah. Man, I will get to it in a minute because it's been a real, is this guy? It reminds me of the riders strike. A bunch of people who think they're really fucking precious. Wake up to the real world folks. Washington Post newsroom. I'd love to deal with them right now. Yeah, except not the news, this is not the newsrooms fault.
This is a management and Jeff Bezos. Oh, what's happening there? Well, so he got in trouble to start with it. We'll start with it because we're going to talk about troubles at Amazon too. But just before we get to it, we're going to do disinformation research groups under attack by the far right open AI hinting some big changes to its governments. There are four profit corporations, Scott apparently. Plus our friends really. Really? I know. They're not on profit. Shocking as it may seem.
Who would have thought it? I mean, they might as well admit the obvious, right? Our friend of pivot is California State Senator Scott Weiner, who used to be my representative in the Castro. He's leading the charge on AI regulation bill. Very smart. California Legislature in California. Anyway. There's so much going on. Let's start with this Washington Post situation. So the guy who's the CEO, Will Lewis, got into big trouble for paying, you know, lots. He did a terrible meeting with the staff.
He really did. It was a terrible meeting. And then he did this weird third newsroom thing, but he never said what it was. And I'm still unclear what the second newsroom is. I believe he's talking about editorial, which isn't a newsroom. So he confused and upset people and believe me, they have every right to be upset.
They asked some cogent questions because he ended up hiring one of his pals from Britain and then firing the seethe, firing the editor, just all of a sudden, like, because she didn't like his third newsroom plan. And so which nobody likes FYI and it's stupid. And so then, so then that was trouble.
And then this week, the New York Times sent a pack of reporters to London and so did the Washington Post, by the way, and so did others to investigate and found even more crazy shit when he was working for Murdoch, when he was working for the other places he worked. A lot of payoffs for phone, phone records that were stolen that they use payoffs. That's old news, all right. No, this is new. That was, that was different. That was he was cleaning up the hacking.
And then they had a guy that was pretending trying to get Tony Blair's memoir or trying to get lists of rich people that bought a May back. All this stuff, they wrote a big, he wrote a big investigative piece of who was buying the new May back because they stole the records. They tricked the Mercedes guy out of the records. And so this guy, Fessed up. Isn't that a hardcore investor? I just love them. Self-hating liberals go after each other and eat their young.
No, don't start with the self-hating liberals bullshit. No, I'm not going to allow this. There's a big news. This time, not going to allow this. I happened to be an actual reporter. You don't do this. You don't do this. Not you don't. You don't. So what's the, they're there. What are they, how would you like it if someone stole it? I'm acquiescing to your journalistic domain expertise. I know, I'm asking question.
Would you like someone tacking your phone and listening to your phone calls and then you doing a report? No, so I don't allow TikTok on my phone and I end by the way, I'm constantly every day trying to lobby against men because they do what you're talking about every fucking men. Right, I get it, but reporters aren't supposed to, okay? Agreed. Okay. So they, anyway, so he's gotten even more trouble with this investigation by the New York Times.
And then the posts followed up with an even worse one about all kinds of lies you told. So he's under a lot of pressure, but I don't think Bayesos is going to let him go. It's the newsroom. It's not the newsrooms fault in this case. And I agree with you on slow moving routes. So the newsroom is an open revolting. It looks like it. Yeah. I mean, they just, I, no one knows what to do because the only person that matters is Jeff Bayesos in this thing. Right.
And so as long as Jeff, but at some point, it reminds me a little bit of an academic institution where the faculty just has way too much power and the dean has to get along with the faculty because they can make us like miserable or her life miserable if they don't get along with them. But at the end of the day, if the newsroom is an open revolt, Bayesos needs to fire them and say, it sucks to be a grown up. You've lost the confidence in the newsroom. It's not if you don't move along. Right.
But in this case, in fact, the newsroom might be right. I know you love to attack the media, but it's not in this case. That's not the case. I like watching those. I'm rooting for them. This is, let me just support the Washington Post team. I wrote a whole part about the posts being really slow to all the internet stuff. In this case, these reporters, and I've talked to a lot of them and this staff knows they have to change. This is not a whiny, oh no, the internet is here gang.
This is a, we are fucked and we got to move. So in this case, I don't, I think this guy's lost the trust. That said, if Bayesos doesn't want to get rid of them because they did this big surge after five years of the other guy, he's the only shareholder. And so the question is, will he?
But having said that, as the only shareholder and if it do share, he has to do share it to the other stakeholders, which include the newsroom, the employees, the nation, because the Washington Post plays a critical role in the zeitgeist and the dialogue.
And as a fiduciary, if he has an obligation to recognize that the newsroom, which is the key, the heartbeat, the white meat, the epicenter, whatever you want to call it, ground zero for this organization, correctly and correctly, that doesn't fucking matter. If he has lost their confidence, Bayesos needs to call him and say, sorry boss, you got to move on. Otherwise, this turns into a bigger drama than it needs to be. That's correct, that is correct.
One person who I was talking to, a meaty person who was in the running for the CEO and actually dropped out, said to me, they need to be looking like they're forward moving right now. That is Stone Scythe, right? She was running a scene. Well, she didn't want to run it. And so they found someone else and she was part of the search and there were several different people. And she's a big supporter of Sally Busby. She gave a party for her last night. And what Sally's role in this?
I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this. She was the editor in chief. She was the editor in chief. This is like the world's worst off off Broadway soap opera. You have a place to an audience of seven people. No, no, no. This is an important space. Who is Sally Busby? Who is Sally Busby? She was the editor. She was the editor. This is an important newspaper I had of this big election. I agree. It is. I would say the second or third most important newspaper in the country.
But I would say the New York Times, the Washington Post, that's how it would stank rock them. Anyway. So anyway, so we'll see. In the case, my whole particular moment in this is there was a dinner tonight that Will was throwing at La Colomboa, which I've never been to. I bet you have. I don't know. The fancy, it's a beautiful, apparently a beautiful place. And I was very excited. I think that's a private school outside L.A. Yeah, right.
Yeah. We feel like a kid to speak French and you're like a total loser. La Colomboa. So they canceled it. So he's not here. He's not here. Little Lisa goes to Colomboa. To the Colomboa. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see you guys next week. Bye. What's up, Tira? I'm here to say something to you don't care where people are going either to go, or they never know us after this. Like talking to 55 people together.
He's carrying your leg from the toilet paper. And that's going to become interesting we're trying to solve again. Where does George, when you ask him, where does Boyle do his homework, it's not just that I am, it matters that I asked him here and he rolls back to Calvary and I start and I start in the mailroom. So it matters.
Again, people when he goes to pick it up for $10, decided to know we won't be qualitative though so we'll see how much data Reporter Dennie pulled with Dosh Winarias for a POLELOLT to engage with her in music. So, okay, now that we've gone down this rabbit hole, what do you think they should do and what happens? There's a lot they could do.
You know, I've always, they just, right now, they need to get a CEO, look, they hired a, he did bring in a temporary editor after Sally decided not to go with him.
Guineering Matt Murray from Wall Street Journal, who he did work with, I think, a great regard for in the newsroom like, so keep him there and make editor editor and then hire a digital person, a really smart, capable digital person to figure out what, how to, how to create new revenue streams just for now until the election and then have a rethink in December. Who wants to go to the Washington Post and make, make no money?
I get that, but I'm just saying there are people who would do it. It's, it's a big challenge. Yeah, I agree. It's, it's an iconic property. Just something to comment the fuck down after their kind of feckless editor and now this guy who's a hot mess, they went from a feckless guy to a hot mess. And now they need to, I don't even need to know the situation. I know what they should do. All roads lead to the same place. I need to fire this guy. Yeah, and then let us take the page.
We should take the, yeah, that would work. I know. Given my journalistic credibility, yes. I'm in. Hello, I'm here with the penis. I'm head, I'm head of HR. That would set an interesting tone. Yeah, that would, that would, but you know what? We'd be common comparison. Anyway, we'll move on.
The other thing that's going on Amazon, I Jeff doesn't run Amazon, but one medical is under fire for our deals with calls from elderly patients, according to a report from the Washington Post, speaking of which, which is good for them for doing it, the primary care service routes elderly
scholars to inexperienced contractors with only two weeks of classroom training within a one month, the post found more than a dozen incidents where staff failed to seek immediate attention for callers with urgent systems, symptoms, excuse me, the main qualification listed for the job is the ability to use a computer and a phone. Amazon acquired one medical in February of last year, one medical main competitors also use call centers to field patient inquiries.
One medical used to be a little more solicitous in lots of ways that you said pick up service, all the same and Amazon cuts some costs and trying to make it more efficient. You know, it was this wonderful startup that everybody loved. I, I am a one medical member. You are too. Yeah, yeah. But it's, it's problematic of there. They're making it too efficient, especially among people that are need more care, or they should at least push people to good care, right?
So I think that in some, like I don't know what I'm talking about. Let's get you to a doctor immediately. That kind of thing. So look, I'm going to. These stories, the larger story here is in my opinion, the media and it's easy to be the editor of the media globally and point yourself a global editor.
I think they're focused on the wrong things. I think that the drama at the Washington Post is sort of interesting, but what's more interesting is that journalism is slowly but surely being euconized.
And so, I think that's why a company that is controlled or influenced by the CCP where every day and we're at this conference and they don't want to admit that the thing that is putting all these people slowly out of business is that there 1.7 billion people on a media platform called TikTok, the media ecosystem has gotten very unhealthy. It's turned into sort of a giant spying network, the molester data, and then it's figured out that rage is the most popular way to engage you.
And so, I think that's one medical, okay, one medical is trying to outsource expensive seniors. So I think this stuff is sort of interesting and gossipy, but it really is not. People are not important. No, I don't think it's one or the other. See, I think you're saying we have to cover this because we're not covering this. Now, people have covered TikTok for some thing. You have that report of Forbes is doing a great fat on here, Emily Baker White.
People are covering the TikTok situation. I have covered all the issues around social media for years and years and years. At the same time, here's Amazon deciding to get in the medical business and cutting corners in ways that aren't right. It's a different story, right? But that's, I don't, I don't, I agree with you. They should fix this and they brought light to it.
But the healthcare industry in general is dramatically in need of organizations like this to come in and take a more cost-driven kind of approach to it. And I look granted, I'm not all the person with palpitations. I'm a sort of old person at Asphalt Patations. It's true story. I actually had an arrhythmia when I was younger. I did. You get that, Shag. The only time I've ever been hospitalized.
It was right after the best college asphalt plan in the nation, again, him, Hank Gathers, went down the floor, did a monster dunking on the way back, collapsed and died. And so anyone with an arrhythmia was stuck in the hospital. Anyways, but and I think they, I think they primarily stuck me in the hospital because I was overinsured and they're like, okay, stick him in the hospital because he can pay his bills.
But anyways, there is the healthcare system is so desperate for this type of disruption and good for journalists for saying, okay, there is there is a clash between private sector and public sector goods when you have a for-profit company trying to outsource costs around seniors. Anyways, I don't, I'm glad they brought it up and I hope they fix it. The reality is, is it old people are expensive and unproductive and I can't wait to get feedback on that comment.
But young people don't even, young people with the most part, unless they're pregnant, don't really need healthcare. They don't get sick. And what most, what most medical companies want to figure out is unless we can get you obese and then get the government to pay for your cholesterol, your knee replacement, your hip replacement, and turn you over to the diabetes industrial complex. And then the senior that needs more care and needs more care holding.
You're more expensive so we want to outsource it. This is where the public and the for-profit and not-for-profit run into each other. And then insurance companies, if you want to, the company, the best business in the world has been insurance. I agree. This is an air reform. Well, we'll see where it should be innovated for sure. Both of us agree with that. Anyway, they'll probably get sued.
Anyway, one good thing for Jeff Bezos this week, he's got two negatives, but Blue Origin is one of Spot and the Pentagon's rocket launch contract sweepstakes for the first time. The winning bid comes as part of contracts awarded under the National Security Space Launch Program, SpaceX in United Launch Alliance, which are the old guys, who are also awarded contracts and have already been competing under previous phase of the program.
Now, Blue Origin gets to come in. They'll be eligible to compete for contracts through mid-2029. I like that they have more competitors, right? This is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Space is exciting. The innovation space is important. Yeah, and it can't just be SpaceX. It cannot just be SpaceX. Yeah, I agree. It's the other billionaire that killed seniors now. And it's somewhat related to seniors is that 40% of all government spending now goes to services for seniors.
It's about to be 50%, which crowds out things, including NASA and SpaceX, where Asian and technology and education and all the things that up a bigger are like old people do. Because you're going to be one. That's fine. No, I just find that my generation, I'm going to say my generation, is unlike previous generations is not paying it forward and continues to avoid old people such that we vote ourselves more money.
And not invest in the future. And $1.4 trillion goes to Social Security every year. Previous generations have always made a concerted effort to elect people who will think long-term, invest in technology, invest in young people, invest in education. And now my generation is no, no, no, increase my Social Security and lower my fucking taxes. There is a virus that has infected my generation where we are no longer making forward-looking investments.
I don't know if it's because we haven't been invaded. I don't know if because social media makes it so much like get yours or, you know, get out. Get your own. But my generation is not living up to the same American standard of investment. We need to give back. We need to give it. You know what? We could put the elderly on these rockets. I'm going to get less. I don't think they should be. Get in letters. Get in letters. I want to be used for a moment.
That's the letters Carol Farming has. Yeah, I don't know if you... I'm not sure. I'm not sure you'd enjoy it. I'm just saying. I'm trying to bring two stories together. And then they could work for the Washington Post. Anyway, okay, let's get to our first big story. The Stanford Internet Observatory of Promoted Disinformation Research Group is facing an uncertain future following ongoing political and legal attacks in the far right.
We've talked about this and where it was going to lead and it did several key staffers have already departed, including founder Alex Samo, some contracts have not been renewed. Another employee is retooled to look for jobs elsewhere, according to platformer. Stanford has dispute at the observatory is going away entirely, saying in a statement the group will continue under new leadership with its critical work on child safety and other online harms.
We've heard from Alex and also Renee D'Arestre, who has a new book out about all the attacks by the right and they've been sort of tasered into not doing anything. There's all kinds of things going on. The observatory's work included research on election integrity, which seemed to have attracted the most attention. AI and child sexual abuse material, representative Jim Dorden, who led the charge on investigating these research groups posted this on social media saying free speech wins again.
Harvard shut down a disinformation research center last year, the main researcher later cited pressure, Prometa, although that's in dispute. In any case, there's been a real campaign to discredit these researchers. Elon sued one of them and then lost the lawsuit. I didn't lose it, I never move forward.
But there were two ongoing lawsuits and two congressional inquiries into the observatory that have cost Stanford millions and legal fees, according to Washington Post, and former researcher, as I said, Renee D'Arestre, who has just a piece knee Atlantic about her experience getting attacked by online conspiracy theorists to work as in a summer fellow program for the CIA when she was a kid.
And so now they call they've decided she's CIA Renee, they have all these crazy conspiracy theories that she's the one that's behind all this. It's nutty. This piece is really something. Anyway, what do you think about this? Do you think information research, which is critical disinformation research, is getting shut down?
I think it's incredibly disappointing. And I will say, you know, we try to call balls and strikes. There's a lot about Jeff Bezos in terms of tax avoidance and some of the employee practices that I'm not been a fan of, but having said that, I generally believe that he wants the Washington Post to pursue the truth.
And I think there's something very noble and very American about that. And I think a lot of elements of the far right see the media is nothing but something that helps craft their narrative around their issues. And they will use intimidation and have weaponized their own media companies.
And this is an example of that that like it's not that they're it my understanding is it's not that they're mad at them for censoring it's it's that they're not censoring that they're that they're not crafting the narrative that they want to to blanket over the nation.
And what's also disappointing I understand Stanford's decision that like this is just more headache than it's worth, but at the same time Stanford has so much money. It's such a Stanford and I'm critical higher ed, but Stanford is just such a gift to California into technology and to research.
That I just it's weird what the faculty and students get riled up about and they don't get riled up about being intimidated by a bunch of right wing lawsuits and basically putting this thing out of business. So I think it's disappointing and more example of the way you the steps to fascism are you get control of the media you get control the economy then you get control the military in boom it's all over.
And this feels to me like an attempt and there's some people on the left to try and do this as well, but not as much. This is a plan. You know, the left does it in a very non systematic way. This is a systematic way around trans rights and everything they have a plan around with abortion.
You know, and there's this whole effort to try to get rid of New York Times versus Sullivan, the idea around libel and Trump has has talked about this idea about prosecuting and going at the media ban and has basically said we're going to kill them. That's what it feels like, you know, we're going to get them get them get them get them is their constant refrain.
It's part of their plan. And so the question is, are anything to fight back when they're doing constant lawsuits, right? This is the problem. And so I don't know if there's anything that you can do with if you've decided this is you know, this is a thing you want to kick out. This is a this is a part of democracy. You want to kick out so you can get control. The kickers are always in a better situation. Those trying to stop the kicking.
Yeah, it's disappointing because I don't know Alex as well as you, but he's always struck me as a very thoughtful guy who calls balls and strikes. He's also strikes me as fearless. You just says, I've seen him speak of conferences and I like him because you're not. He doesn't sign up to a political narrative. He just says, this is what the data reflects.
And he also at the last conference I saw said, you know, there's a lot of misinformation coming from the left. And I like guys like that who call balls and strikes, but he's exactly the kind of person you want heading. You know, a laboratory like this. This is exactly the kind of laboratory that should be sponsored and hosted at an academic institution.
And Stanford is exactly the place the region that should be hosting it is just this feels so right on so many levels. And yet they're being kind of bullied by what feels at least on the surface to be. Right wing organizations that aren't interested in pursuing the truth are interested in crafting a narrative to their own objectives. Look, this is feels wrong. It just feels bad and twisting the numbers right. Yeah.
So I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know. It's very dangerous for the 2024 election and future elections not there to be academic research. But I think that's the answer or not you agree with it is the is no difference is that if they can do their studies and they can back it up, you have to accept what it's doing what they do is they take information.
Like saying that Renee herself got 22 million pieces, you know, censored when in fact she just recommended 2000 misinformation things and only like 15% of them got taken out. They spin it into this idea of this person behind the scenes manipulating when in fact speaking of Chrissy Teigen it was Trump who asked to take down her pussy ass bitch tweet not someone out right they do it too.
They do it. They do it too in terms of trying to take stuff down. And so what they do is they weaponize the first amendment in a way that's just really heinous because they don't want because of their own political narratives anyway. So really it's a shame and Stanford should fucking pay for this thing I think they're not very they're not very brave as people anyway.
All right Scott was going to quick break and we come back open AI announces its latest board member enhance its big changes and will speak with a friend of pivot California State Center Scott weener about his AI regulation bill that's causing a ruckus and Silicon Valley.
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Scott were back open AI appears to be addressing recent security concerns of the new addition to its board of directors a company announced last week that retired general Paul Nakasone will be joining the board he's also.
Sit on a newly formed safety and security committee Nakasone was director of the NSA which is causing a lot of like the crazy right to go crazy about this and saying it's a deep state and led including you know I think and led the US military cyber command before stepping down early this year he's very well
regarded but again this is a big appointment open AI said in a statement that this appointment underscores a growing significance of cyber security Edward Snowden wasn't happy he posted on the Sun social media saying do not ever trust open a or its products there's only one reason for
pointing an NSA director to your board so as usual without proof Edward but you know okay sure spy spy so but it's one of those open ended questions that never really has an answer any proof attached to it but that's okay they can do that so it's a thing what do you think about that I absolutely love it anyone who's an army general and works the way up as as someone you know general Nakasone isn't you know this isn't a very impressive person and also this person is proving
themselves a patriot and for all these weirdos on the far right they think there's a deep state and for all these weirdos on the far left that are under the assumption that the the pieces of natural right that it's not something that requires constant vigilance and sacrifice we need the NSA does an amazing job
keeping American safe and it's important we have laws that keep them in check but at the same time I just I worry that America has become so naive to this notion that peace is a right it is not it is earned and it is not the natural order as soon as people can come for Netflix and espresso folks they will and they won't do it by interesting nice means they'll be violent about it just as we are need to be violent and smart about
protecting our borders so to have someone like this on the board of open AI to occasionally raise his or her hand and say you know what that is a threat to America and I'm not down with this I love having this guy on the board of open AI I think it's a wonderful thing it's interesting because it sort of sets up these deep state leave us alone don't tread on me gang and I mean that the negative don't tread on me way the sort of demented don't try
in any of its own case I recognize that he did uncover some really heinous behavior by our security officials that said the way there there's plenty of argument you made that that how he handled it was wrong but he couldn't have had a look we can debate Edwards snowed on you want I interviewed him once it's a very complex topic but the fact assuming every NSA chief is has malintent is the way to bring down all institutions now they've been abusive enough that there's
that there needs to be strong laws and oversight in place absolutely if a spot a spy is going to spy that is just the way it goes right it's not there's no other way to put it including the Chinese government they're going to spy whether you have proof or not that's what they do in this case as many people on the board now I would also put on someone who's a more of a
lot of the sort of an opposite to him could be interesting so you have all the different outlooks brought there and I'm not talking the problem they had was they had people that were so at cross purposes there was no agreement and I think if they bring in someone who's more distrustful of government but then challenges government overreach I think that's fantastic to right that's what you kind of want on a board but this guy has has really a very very strong
expectation I just the immediate attacks on him were fascinating to watch in a lot of ways speaking of open a either further angering all the pure crowd CEO Sam Altman has told some shareholders the company is considering changing its governance to a proper for profit business that a nonprofit board doesn't control according to the information I'm shocked I'm shocked what I'm shocked they are a profit company one option
for forming a for profit benefit corporation similar to an anthropic in XA I have in place that's that's I you can explain what a for profit I don't understand it all said the restructuring conversations of fluid and that he is fellow directors can take a different approach oh come on Sam come on you can't stand that nonprofit situation so open I reportedly as on pace by the way to for a 3.4 billion dollars of annual revenue well done if open a did become a for profit company what's your
prediction for an IPO they just hired a very well regarded person Sarah fryer who was a former CEO of next door and it's as is chief financial officer you used to work for square terrific she she dealt with IPOs at next door as well as squares I've said what what is that called now I forget the new name for I call it square still
but what do you think about this talk about this a little bit so all of the stuff about the drama the board and it going back and forth and whether you know and sanding fired and then re hired it's a bit of noise because now open AI in the last six months they've doubled their revenue base they're kind of running away with it
you look at their run rate right now relative to the valuation they're actually the most reasonable reasonably valued company in AI despite the fact that they're the leader they are clearly clearly putting on their best dress for an IPO because the individual that you reference is a is a incredibly street it's like when Google brought in Ruth parat and she wasn't there to take in public but this is a very street friendly hire
so they're clearly getting ready for an IPO and all of the kind of noise around open AI I saw these numbers on how they're doing they are running away with it they open AI right now as their revenue rate they're like 20% of all AI revenues and you know what they have Scott they decided to be Google and not net scape that's what it is you know I see your
net scape had it and then lost it Google almost lost it and then have it right they really pushed aggressively it's also expanding into health care with the cancer co pilot it's working with color health to develop an AI assistant using open AI's cheap they're doing deals all over the friggin map like they're they're like running circles around the competitors but go ahead.
Now the year you're exactly right we have a tendency to focus on the soap opera and this but despite all of this distraction they are growing the revenues faster miss your this company in France which I think will do well because I think a lot of European companies. And regulators would like an AI company in Europe to emerge but if you look at this year revenue growth and size of revenues it's it's really right now it's open AI open AI
in the seven doors and AI and then infrastructure it's in video and just okay you know who are the rest I mean you could argue that Dell and Oracle have done a good job of positioning themselves in the sunlight here but but when I saw these numbers from open AI I'm like oh my gosh kudos to them for being able to you know being able to walk
and shoot them at the same time because there's been a lot of distraction there but the revenue the next thing that we're going to be talking a lot about the people aren't spending a lot of time talking about is just the sheer amount of energy consumption. It's going to come from AI guess who has a hydrogen fusion come whatever Sam Altman is all right he's into little small nuclear devices just so you know he's got an answer for everything and it takes 10 to 17 times the amount of energy to do a
AI query on chat GBT versus a general search. No that's why that's what he's working on that's another Sam Altman investment is energy like a lot of and and to sell it to these companies to do that he's way ahead he's he's making the pickaxes in the gold rush is what's happening anyway. There you go. It's not stupid not stupid anyway we've got a lot more to discuss on the AI front so let's bring in our friend of pivot.
Scott weener is a California state senator he introduced an AI regulation bill earlier this year that aims to establish common sense safety standards for AI companies in California. The bill passed through the state Senate last month is now making its way through the state assembly but it's facing a lot of push back from AI companies venture capitalist and tech trade associations welcome Scott.
Thanks for having me could to see you good to see you so it just came out a little while ago several amendments are getting proposed are added to the say I bill not a surprising thing that's what happens.
Talk a little bit about the bill and explain the potential impact of these changes let me just say the original bill includes requiring companies to prevent models from causing critical harm little and the economic ensuring systems can be shut down which they that's the one that really seems to drive crazy and reporting on safety test which seems reasonable enough so talk a little bit about the that bill and the changes.
Great yeah so the bill which actually got some bipartisan support in the Senate got a really strong vote the basic gist of it is that if you're going to train and release a huge model we define it as larger than 10 to 26.
What cost more than a hundred million dollars to train just do some basic safety evaluation and identify if there are potential catastrophic harms and then if you identify catastrophic risks then take basic steps to try to reduce those risks risks not eliminate them it's life you can't reduce risk to zero but at least reasonable steps to mitigate the risks.
The large labs all say that they're doing this or wanting to do this they keep committing to doing it and sold in the White House before Congress and so we are putting it into a into a law. The it does not require government permission or licensing before you train or release a model it's not government micro management in any way it's simply saying let's do a safety evaluation.
The amendments that are being proposed by the assembly privacy committee which will hear the here the bill this week are pretty reasonable they create more flexibility in terms of the size threshold we've gotten a lot of feedback from industry and from experts that having a permanent 10 to the 26 flop threshold is not flexible enough.
So we provide provide some more flexibility over time we require third party safety audits starting in 2028 and the whistleblower protections will be strengthened we've always had whistleblower protections in the bill from the very beginning. But they're going to be refined and strengthen and then the ensuring systems can be shut down pretty much every techie is like that's not that's ridiculous that's a ridiculous it's not even possible.
Yeah so so in the in the bill it's always been this way but we've made it more clear recently that the requirement for a shutdown provision or a shutdown aspect to the model is only if the model in your possession once it leaves your possession you're no longer responsible for ensuring it can be shut down because that's the feedback that we were getting that once I release it someone else has it I can't ensure that so we
that was always our intent and we made that we made that clear we also put an amendment and recently that if someone does significant fine tuning then to the bill then that becomes their model and not the original developers model. But the pushback is massive for tech people they're calling you an idiot essentially Scott you know that I have been called far worse than that.
First of all we have a big coalition behind this bill including a lot of AI technologists we have you know folks who have started companies and so it's not it's not just me like I woke up one morning and and and dreamt this so we think it's quite feasible and in fact they're all saying that they're doing it or wanting to do it and that's one of the odd things about this all we're saying is do what you say.
You want to do or what you say you are doing is a certify that you've done it and it's it's it's it's quite it's doable and it's not it's not government over which I think one of the pushbacks is similar to to GDPRs that only the big companies will be able to to serve you in what you're doing in the smaller I know you have that size limit the size has to get to a certain size but that's one of the worries obviously.
Yeah and this is much much narrower than what the EU has done dramatically narrower it's a safety evaluation and it only applies to these huge models that effectively exempt sell startups so there's been a narrative that this is going to be some sort of regular to capture I think that's just completely untrue.
Okay Scott the other Scott nice to meet you Scott hi other Scott I realize that I'm going to be preaching to the choir here but you want to put a car you want to sell a car to the re you know to the general public you have to put it through crash test safety standards what on earth are the arguments here other than saying well Sam Altman knows better than a regulator because he speaks in hush tones.
What are your arguments for not slowing down or at least having some kind of crash test safety dummies here to make sure not putting a Ford Pinto times a billion or a you know what was at the core of air unsafe at any speed what are the art what are what is the pushback that these people can regulate themselves what are the best arguments play the other side be Robert McNamara and empathize with the enemy what are the best arguments that the other side is putting out sure and I do empathize a lot that these are a lot of people.
I know really really well being the the I represent San Francisco I'm part of the area right to the south of the city and and so I am surrounded by the I world every day and so I that's why I will just be clear that we have been intensively meeting with opposition with folks who are open to supporting have skepticism we made a series of amendments and response to constructive feedback but the
there are a the lines of argument are one is just trust us will do it on our own you don't need to tell us to do it and I I make clear you know we don't even if you trust all the CEOs on the C sweet folks today even if you completely trust everyone you don't know who's going to be running these companies tomorrow or in a year and what pressures they're going to be facing the other is an argument that I just don't think is
accurate respectfully they they will say well this is like regulating the or putting a requiring a safety evaluation for the printing press it's it's not about the printing press it's about what people use it for because they don't say regulate the application not the model of course both are very important and you know and carry you I'm not trying to brown those or anything but in your book you talked about the
that when you build a ship there's going to be a risk of catastrophic harm crash etc and yes that can be because of a malicious actor or negligent operation it could also be because of an error or problem in the design or it could be that the design makes it too easy for someone to maliciously or negligently crash it and so we would never say as you notice
got just just focus on the pilot regulate pilot of the plane don't regulate the plane itself you regulate both and you make sure that both are safe and you reduce rest you not going to eliminate rest you reduce well what that they just don't like regulation at all they don't like any right they're not used to it because we never regulated them so in a real in a substantive way they would argue they have they are not allowed to murder people yet
although I would argue some of them do in some different ways but with the timeline looking for a passage and are you concerned that this bill becomes law some AI companies will leave California that's always their threat they're always on their way out the door the Silicon Valley's in a proper I don't think so I believe is one thing but they their tendency is toward non regulation and just a second and even someone who I find relatively
reasonable met his chief AI scientist John LeCoon who is reasonable has posted that regulating basic technology put an end to innovation which is rather dramatic from him so what are you worried about because look AI is now reinvigorating San Francisco you who you represent really is you can see the difference in the excitement and the companies are locating there open is creating concentric circles of companies
etc all the AI people are staying in San Francisco so are you are you and and Silicon Valley what do you how do you look at this is concerned that they're going to leave they're going to Texas because or Florida or wherever yeah and to be clear
first of all I'm a fan of AI I think it has so much potential for good and I love that San Francisco is the beating heart of AI innovation and I've been a supporter of fostering and having a strong tech presence in San Francisco I I there have been some really
melodramatic statements including from young and I have a lot of respect for him but I think some of his statements and others that that made by some other folks have been really extreme and over the top and sometimes have not even accurately described what the bill does I do not think that
is going to somehow there's always this statement that we're going to push people out even when even when Elon Musk said he was moving Tesla out you didn't really move it out he was expanding Tesla in California so I don't think he's a different character yeah he's a drama queen but I yeah yes he is but I don't I don't I don't see that happening in addition to the fact that the what triggers this bill is not is not being headquartered in California
yeah it's doing business here and so the idea that they're not going to even do business in California is sort of laughable so I I don't think that that is a real risk to be honest so I would imagine one of the arguments for Ford is the China and Russia aren't going to have this type of regulation and as a result they're going to be able to go
faster and their AI weaponized warriors will come for our children is that an argument and what how would you respond to that I mean there there is this argument that the that we have to have bigger more powerful and more dangerous and more whatever AI models in order to compete with their deadly models I don't I to me that's not
that's probably not direction we should be going and just to be clear we are not this bill does not ban anything it is not they can they can build these powerful models they can they can deploy these powerful models it does not limit them in any way it just says do a basic safety test test the kind of test that you say that you are already doing and if it identifies like you know a real
risk that I might shut down the grid for six months maybe maybe puts do take some step to at least reduce that risk I don't think that that is unfair I don't think the competition with China is a is an excuse to say anything goes they do use yet they do a scots correct they use that the year me
argument is like perhaps for years and years I mean the idea of you know I always say this I'm like you have the ship the ship perhaps what's wrong with the lighthouse they don't want lighthouse they really don't I feel like I'd love to know what
legislation they would want to make and but actually you know there goes to a bigger problem Scott is where are you doing this right why is the state of California not you what what the hell are you doing with your life Scott but other Scott at the bear at the bear
but you know why is the federal government moving into this like that's really the issue is I know Biden put out the executive order which has some of these elements in it by the way a lot of them include you know but any kind of restriction seems should come from the federal government so we have a we have a consistently across all 50 states and a decision making that isn't done by California legislators as much as you might be the epicenter of it.
I agree with you a thousand percent it would be better for the federal government to do this and let's wait and see if the federal government actually ever does it especially since Steve's police house Republican majority leader said you know last week that nothing else significant was going to happen let's remember that Congress has never passed a
lot of the state of privacy law. Congress has done nothing on social media Congress trying to do later on today but anyway go yeah well they've never Congress has never enacted a neutrality law I offer California's net neutrality law in 2018 thinking maybe I would be preempted at some point in the next few years never happened so the last others in banning TikTok the last major piece of the late net last major federal tech law that was passed
was in the 90s and so I don't have a lot of confidence I hope I'm wrong and if they pass some comprehensive fantastic federal regulation and want to and maybe preempt our law that could be a really good result but they're not doing that right now. Supposedly you're going to run for the Pelosi seat when she leads it I understand is that correct. Well we have a fantastic number of Congress and yeah one whatever she decides makes her own decision then I'll definitely you know I love
representing San Francisco. I want to bring you I'm not putting you on this spot that I just did so you you live there and you represent the city you were my representative in the Castro for people out in the city government you represent the city of state senators been this negative narrative about San Francisco for a while and I don't think you've. Pretended it wasn't the troubles were not happening is from
called a failed city at this open hellscape I have to say it's quite vibrant AI is part of it. I companies but and it seems like it's on a comeback loop there's a very exciting mayors race it's very competitive and very different visions of San Francisco many of them would be
that's conservative but what is your message for now for San Francisco's critics I think that sort of hellscape narrative is sort of moving to a new place because it's everything is getting better but and things are getting fixed slowly very difficult to be a city in a post
covid but what is your message for San Francisco's critics who are all back by the way yeah and you know it there's a very emotional pastime of predicting San Francisco's demise and writing our obituary people have been doing it for I don't know probably a hundred years and this is a city that burned down an earthquake our mayor was assassinated along with Harvey Milk we once were probably the hardest hit from HIV and everyone over and
over again said San Francisco was over and then we came back and so yeah we've been going through some tough times particularly with our community because of the you know lack of full return to work our neighborhoods are driving the neighborhoods are so vibrant we have
amazing massive outdoor events everyone wants to be outside with with their friends with their community we are seeing with not just with AI but with biotech with health care with a number of different industries a real surge and even in the shopping center that was the
the store closure heard around the world were Nordstrom close there are people who were leasing spaces in that shopping center we you know obviously we got in hard hit with homelessness and fentanyl which is affecting all big cities especially on the west coast and mayor breed has been doing some taking some pretty aggressive strategies and the street conditions are dramatically better than they were a year ago there's still more work to do but it's
getting better and I'm optimistic about the city's future if you were to be elected to federal office one do you think that individuals who leverage the culture the culture the amazing universities the public infrastructure the public investments that California taxpayers and specifically San Francisco citizens of San
Francisco pay such that they can create these unbelievable companies people aggregate a ton of wealth and then have a habit of deciding to spend more time with their father or they just can handle San Francisco any longer just about the time they're going to recognize an enormous way and they move to Texas or Florida would you be open to sponsoring legislation that similar to options on equity recognizes where those individuals actually
created that wealth and applying those taxes such that you could reinvest in the great infrastructure that was responsible for that wealth that was a word salad but I think you know I'm going and he's not talking about anyone specifically but go ahead there's a lot of I'm teasing you
a lot of yeah they're right yeah I think I would certainly be open open to that you know I think there are a lot of people who have made fortunes in California because of our state and including with public investments in some situations and that I'm glad that they made a fortune
good you know that's that's great but I also think fair taxation is important and it does I'm not a fan of the whole make my money there and then and then leave yeah they like to do that though anyway Scott you're a very great public servant I really enjoy talking to you through you quite a sensible I'll have people are always have this idea of San Francisco legislators is very different from reality how old is got good to pour so another
50 years you can run for a closer seat I choose this Christ sure and folks we need churn bring in this bring in this incredibly young reckless 54 year old for God's yeah sorry I was an endorsement in case he didn't recognize it thank you I do have to say I spend quite a bit of time around that's a bloke see and I pray to God that I am half as sharp as she is
she really is I got it I mean she is ladies are not like the old guys and impressive woman and impressive woman she still is she's an extraordinary person she really is Scott she's going to kill you it just watch out she's going to take you down like you that's not someone who is old in any way anyway but nonetheless you're right churn as Scott says Scott thank you so much
other Scott thanks God we appreciate it thank you so much for having me alright Scott you do like the other Scott he's in the press it isn't yeah I hope like in this goes back to where you're saying about the NSA I know a lot of people are security apparatus this is who these people are incredibly
well credentialed incredibly hard working people people who decide to give up a lot more money to go work in service of their nation and the fact that people on the far left are suspicious of them and dismissive of them and people on the far right think there's some sort of like I don't know weird these are the people protecting your rights to say these batch crazy things and have a decent quality of life
and they they really do deserve our respect and I can't stand the extremists on the left and on the right that all unify to ship post people in our security apparatus is not just Paul but just and Scott too I mean I think one of the reasons I want to bring on is like he's he's considered conservative in San Francisco though he's not right he's just reasonable and I think one of the things that's important is like let's take a
fucking second and actually meet these people and show what kind of work they're doing instead of making everyone a cartoon character of a city or a country including on the right by the way saying I just interviewed Brad Raffinsberger the one who
was a very conservative but incredible public servant incredible public servant and I wouldn't vote for him but incredible public servant also I hope the general makes a shit ton of money I'd like to see him that's exactly the kind of person that makes general
knock a son it's kind of person I'd like to see make a lot of money absolutely Scott one more quick break will be back for wins and fails support for pivot comes from Hestin since 1852 and over six generations Hestin's beds have been renowned for the craftsmanship and use of high quality natural materials to help ensure your body temperature stays regulated while you sleep Hestin's offers a range of firmness options to suit different preferences and body types and
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upfront costs licensing or sport fees visit get center dot com slash pivot to get started today that's yet center dot com slash pivot okay Scott let's hear some wins and fails would you like to first or i can you the first carer so i was going to talk about the Mississippi nonprofit newsroom facing the free press challenge which you must read about this this is the miss and this is the press they're doing amazing work
and they are getting pillory by republicans who just don't like they never question the work they just want to stop them in their tracks by mess it's a coming up the works with all kinds of legal fees I was going to talk about that actually I want to talk about a story that's in the Wall Street Journal I think Scott this is something that's important to you too but this is an info the influencer is a young teenage girl the audience is 92% adult men
this story is it's not a surprise and it's not it's not something that I was oh no but it was an incredible explanation of how difficult it is one for these companies to push back against all these men and the people who are doing this stuff online young people how they how it's very hard to protect them and at the same time in order to be successful you have to have a lot of engagement and the people that have engagements around young girls
are more men let me read the first part just and you must read the story the mom started the Instagram account three years ago as a pandemic area diversion away for her daughter daughter a pre-teen dancer to share photos with family friends and other young dancers and moms the two bond as she said as they posted photos of the girl dancing modeling and living life in a small midwestern town the mom of
former marketing manager oversaw the account and watches a number of followers grew soon photographers offered to take professional shots for the girl brands being sending free apparel for her to model we didn't even have a page for a month and brands like can we center dance where the mom said she being popular really fast the mom also began to notice a disturbing trend of the data that showed up on the account dashboard most of the girls followers were adult men and then it goes gets worse
from there in terms of their comments and everything else and she kept blocking them and kept blocking them and all kinds of stuff was happening and it it was it's I said fucking tail is old this time but boy is it amplified online and it's it's I don't know what to say
it's just not a surprise and yet it's repulsive I just I don't you know you can't use these tools without immediately becoming a sewer in so many ways so there's there's there's a big story today about putting putting warnings on social media sites
by the way I've got to read about it but we'll talk about that maybe on stage this week tomorrow so anyway that's that was a really disturbing story on the house that have side Bridgerton this season is so good so good I watch it on the TV now look all the boobs and sex are adult
so you know what I mean it's for adults it's sexy it's like fun they have a whole thing about a girl that's a wall flower who then becomes the the star of this season she's amazing by the way and and she does talk about her terrific boobs which are she is correct about that anyway
just a really fun wonderful show I love that show and I love I love it every season and they focus on a different person and the woman I don't know her name who plays the queen cracks the shit out of me she's so funny and so Shonda rhymes you are the OG best person ever
I'm sorry the Shonda rhymes show on Netflix and man is it good all right that's it just with respect to your that article on the influencer on the in the last regional like this conference or at it used to be an advertising conference but it's the same thing it's tacked
and that is the fact that men and a lot of women are very drawn towards sex and anything connoting sex that's a tale is oldest time it's a big part of our economy because propagation is something that's a key to survival of the species but what we also generally speaking have decided as a society is that we're going to limit the exposure engagement and threat of these things that can lead darplaces to people under the age of 18 and then came Instagram Instagram begins from a place of perversion
in that is all of the incentives for young people to get on Instagram especially for young women are to sexualize themselves such that a group of their peers and strange men in this instance 92% of the engagement are to be evaluated by strange men from around the world
evaluating the sexual attractiveness of a minor that we used to decide that's not cool that is that is not right that leads to bad places in this entire article is nothing but again let's move to solutions we need to age gate social media yes I would agree with you I I was sick and by the story but every incentive is like a path towards put on a bathing suit show up without a bra in a loose shirt and jump around and all of a sudden your video is going to get 10 times the number of videos
and you need to age gate this should don't put kids in a position where they are seduced into sexualizing themselves as minors and don't don't create incentives for the parents don't don't create incentives for for men to feel like they're not doing anything wrong when they start start engaging in content with minors this is on social media I couldn't I couldn't get into our rated films when I was 16 and 17
there was a reason for that and one of the things can I just make out there's another story today in the post it was that I thought was good tiktok lifted this family out of public housing see their life before and after so in the lightways this is kind of great business great entrepreneurship great this great that great opportunities for people especially in the fun stuff the dancing the you know make like I kind of like it like in that regard
I don't think it's as stupid as other people do but immediately degenerates and honestly there's nothing these I feel terrible for these tech companies to because there's no way to there's just not having it is the like someone's like how do you stop it I'm like not having it is the only choice because it did you know I don't I don't even know what the solution age gating is the only solution not not allowing them on these platforms
like just around the revenue argument OK Tracy lords made a shit ton of money for a 16 year old by being in porn and that was wrong and we had age limits and it almost brought down the porn industry as it should have because people recognize there was no real concerted effort to check her true age it all I'll pass lead to the same place and I think we'll eventually get there was talking to someone and I said how old your kids and they said six and nine I'm like
by the time your kids are ready for social media we will have as a society finally gotten our head out of our ass and realized that anyone under the age of 16 should not be on social media and any platform that is letting 16 and 17 year old people be sexualized should be subject to should not be protected by 230 and not this is this is just this leads nowhere good and yeah some people won't make as much money OK fine would you what would you have your 16 year old girl do for money
this shouldn't be it and it has to be universal it has to be collective action because if you try and take everyone and all the people who say we'll just take their phone away do not have children because of all your kids friends are on social they have to be social otherwise they're more depressed because they're ostracized all roads lead to the same place we need to get to your friends Scott elected age gating for God's sake
I'm I'm I'm come around especially my daughter unlike I felt sick to my stomach reading this anyway what are your wins and fails well I kind of have what I'll call for a call two wins but team England beat Serbia won nothing not a huge win but I think we're just not showing our
cards to the competition I'm of course talking about the European championship here but team England my favorite players Bukayosaka from Arsenal cold Palmer who's just this kid wonder who plays for Chelsea Jude Bellingham won the goal last night but it's going to be just an amazing tournament super excited about it I would also say and I'm not going to go to specifics here but to fans from England who made the trip to Germany primarily football is probably one of England's strongest exports
it's going to build tens of thousands of not hundreds of thousands of jobs when you're just not a good guest in their country you're really hurting England and this isn't this is of all of the industries that are emerging in the UK something that the UK does really well is is the Prem primarily and just as the NBA and the NFL have been huge economic drivers the United States it could be a huge economic driver anyways I'm excited about the European championship and team England my my
fail I'm at that age Cara and I'm just a quick shout out I am all my friends parents are passing away and I have a nice story my my best friend is a guy named Lee Lotus who I met in college I best man am I wetting his husband is God parent my my oldest Alec his father Lee senior is is doing very poorly and will likely pass soon and there was a couple moments I remember with his father his father came and visited Lee and me we were living together in San
Francisco and Lee had a kidney stone so me and Lee he said we do you see it said we do some with my dad so of course me and Lee's father went to see the USS Pompanito which is that submarine and the fisherman's war great but this guy was a man's man he had a furniture story was one of the people that gave me the confidence to start a business and I remember going visiting the furniture store and he would be so focused on detail and I think that's stuck with him
it's a little things that matter and the but the one thing I remember you don't him suck with me but the one thing I remember the most was this guy look like Bert Reynolds like when you were a young man you looked at this guy he was just so handsome married to same woman Carolyn Lotus for 60 plus years but this guy was so good looking and I remember this exact moment he walked in to Lee's a part he shook my hand and he turned to Lee and you know what they did they kissed
and I thought oh my god I'm never they like that kissed on the lips like like Italian people do sometimes and it seems so natural and so wholesome and I remember thinking and I came from a background where men just did not kiss each other and I remember thinking that if a guy who looks like Bert Reynolds can kiss his son I can kiss mine and I I kiss my sons because of Lee oh God you kill me you're killing me
it was this is what people love about you Scott when you go here I'll tell you anyway this guy look this guy literally a man's man kiss his son you know what I'm going to do I'm going to kiss you on the lips tomorrow
that's what I'm doing with that with that porcelain skin yes with my perfect skin I'm going to kiss you on the lips live on the French River that's a beautiful nice yes that's a beautiful story I'm so sorry that sounds like a life well lived like it really really is wonderful that's all you can say anyway that is I don't know what to say that's a great story let's just end on that so we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech you almost made me Christ up not quite
or whatever's on your mind go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot okay Scott that's the show we're launching a special series tomorrow on the future of travel a three-part series on the on where we look at the business and tech trend affecting travel
from planes to trains and automobiles tomorrow we kick it off with a look at the future of high speed rail that was a cool show and why other countries have better trains than we do they all do and we started the whole train thing that we didn't but nonetheless we should have better trains
then on Friday we're bringing you our episode taped live at Khan we're very excited Scott read us out today's show is produced by Larry Naman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin Alia Jackson engineered this episode thanks also to Drew Burrows and Miss LaVario
Nisha Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts thank you for listening to pivot from New York Magazine in Vox Media you can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown
of all things tech and business dads kiss your sons Scott happy father's day likewise to you here and Amanda Support for the show comes from service now the AI platform for business transformation you've heard the big hype around AI the truth is AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into
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