Warner Bros. Discovery For Sale, OpenAI’s Browser, and Netflix Earnings

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Little do they know that you would put out. That's the thing. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher from Korea. Hello, Scott. Howard, so give me your impressions of Seoul. Tell me all about it. Well, I'm drinking bubble tea, of course. I was in the Gangnam region today with all the lights and all the young people and all the plastic surgery area.

Great, actually. It's very clean. It's very vibrant. Young people wandering everywhere. It feels... Good. I mean, I think they feel very emboldened by pushing down the martial law thing, because they're good at it and we're not. And it feels very vibrant. It feels like it's...

It's not a lot different from the last time I was here, I'll be honest with you, but I like Korea quite a bit. How many times have you been here? Well, you know, it's painful for me because I had a Korean friend who died. He was so young, so young. Oh, no. I can't believe you took that joke. That's good. That's the only Korean joke I could find that was only mildly racist. Oh, my God. That is racist. Get it? So young. So young. Okay.

Anyway, I went to a company that does robotics today. I was in this neighborhood, this gang neighborhood talking about, you know, they do, you would like it because they're very into like. preventive health care, but it includes a lot of facials, and like I said, and plastic surgery. And the person I was talking about says, oh, you go to lunch, you get your nose done, and then you go back to work. I was like, what?

So it was kind of interesting. I'm trying not to make it sort of like if you go to Times Square and that's New York, but it's not. But how would you...

How, like, give me the analog. Seoul is the cross between X and Y city. I haven't been to there in 30 years. You know, it's a little like New York and Los Angeles because it's so vast. I mean, I've been driving this car. Oh, that sounds awesome. Yeah, it's a little... I'm sorry, late night drinking spots and hot Uber drivers? Yeah, and constant, you know, Korean fried chicken and the food is... Actually, the food is interesting. One of the reasons is because even though...

You know, there is like a lot of like, well, like everywhere in cities, there's a lot of drinking and stuff like that. But it's a very healthful, like you don't see. unhealthy looking people anywhere everybody looks really fit and the food is pretty basic it's the rice the protein lots of vegetables and stuff like that and so and then one thing that i was talking about today is health care is

like so revered and everybody take it. There was a word and I'm blanking on it. I'm not going to mangle it in Korean, but. Decency, humanity. They just treat people like. Civil society. They're like, how do you.

Have your health care there. When we're sick, we have one pain, we go to the doctor and we take five minutes. You mean 40% of Korean households do not have medical or dental debt? Correct. That's right. You know, just they were sort of like shocked. 70% of them are not obese or overweight. Yes, exactly. That's exactly right. And they care a lot about their body. And when they say, how are you? The word is, how is your body?

So it's a really interesting, they've got lots of problems, obviously. There's this great wealth gap and everything else is, you know, as you know, depicted in movies like Parasite and others. But I have to say around the healthcare and longevity, they're quite dedicated, which is one. I'm here. So I'll let you know at the end. When I was in elementary school, I had a pen pal in North Korea of all places. North Korea? In North Korea, yeah. What? Yeah, and I remember writing once.

how are things in north korea and he wrote back i can't complain That's a joke. Why do I fall for it? Why do I fall for it? Let me just tell you one thing that's weird. They were also talking about the heist. I'm going to ignore you completely with your Korean jokes. I thought you'd start singing Golden.

or takedown from K-pop Demon Hunters. Is that K-pop Demon Hunters? Yeah, but you know, that's from the United States. Those are Korean Americans and Korean Canadians who did that production, but it's very popular here. I'm sorry, Kara. I don't see race when it comes to anime. Anyway, it's become popular over here, but it's actually a lot of things go from here. You know, K-pop and that whole cultural Korean stuff has really moved global in a lot of ways.

But what was I going to say? I can't remember before you told that terrible joke. Oh, it's weird to think that I'm this close to like...

North Korea. Like, it must be so stressful to be near a country that wants to bomb you out of existence. I don't know. Just go to a pro-pally rally at Columbia. Oh, stop it. Don't even. Sorry. Couldn't resist. Trump is like ripping the White House down. I'm not even going to like.

Oh, I agree. Have you ever seen a visual metaphor that's more apt than the East wing being torn down? I mean, seriously, I'm sorry. Everybody gets a pass except for Trump. Anyway, I think, I mean, like, release the Epstein files. That's all I have.

to say about this. Like, it's another thing. Hey, has anyone heard from the First Lady? I don't get it. If she doesn't have to put up with him, why do we? She doesn't even live there. Like, where is she? You know, she's not there. Not the word from Melania. Because they have that weird patio now they've got oh my god the next president if it's democrat is going to be like what the

heck am I going to do? We'll talk about that in a minute because we've got a lot to get to today, including Tesla and Netflix earnings, which are really interesting, and OpenAI taking aim.

at Google with its new browser. But first, Warner Brothers Discovery announced this week it's officially exploring a sale after getting takeover interest for summer part of the company earlier this year. Warner Brothers announced a plan to split in two, separating its studio and streaming from its legacy cable networks. CNN is the most famous of those, but they have several. Now it's open to an alternative separation structure. I mean, David Zaslav is saying the obvious because it's...

rejected three takeover offers from Paramount's David Ellison. Other rumored suitors include Comcast, Amazon, Apple, and Netflix. Scott, we've been talking about this, but you predicted in 2023 that Warner Brothers could face an activist investor. Let's listen.

I think you're going to see an activist at Warner Brothers Discovery. The stock is now down to a point where I think there's a lot of upside as Zaslav, to his credit, is reducing debt. And the assets here are trading at about, even including the debt, about half of what they paid AT&T for the asset. So I think that... There's blood in the water. People see these assets have declined to a level where there's a decent amount of upside with not too much downside.

So it's not an activist investor, but it is, you know, other companies. It's the ultimate activist. It's an acquisition. True, true. But these are companies that want to, what we've also talked about, which is taking them, cutting costs and consolidating, which is a theme you and I have talked about.

quite a lot, the idea of sort of taking, you know, moving, and why should there be ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, et cetera. But that's not really the focus here. It's the studios and streaming, I think, probably. So talk a little bit. bit about this because one of the things, I've talked to a lot of people about this, and they feel like if the Ellisons get to $26 a share, I think they're in the 24 area, it's a done deal, essentially.

is trying to make an auction happen, I guess. And he's already in the money. He's going to do really well himself. But he's trying to argue that split apart, it's $30 or whatever once you split. the two together, so why should they take a cheap offer from the Ellisons? And the Ellisons are trying to get

the studio and the streaming cheap, because once you split them up, there are a lot of suitors, right? The only issue is that the others have, one, money problems comparatively to the Ellisons, and two, Not a friend in Trump. Like Comcast, Brian Roberts is not a favorite of Trump. Amazon probably is more so Apple. probably is more so, Netflix probably not. And so there'll be difficulties in picking up any of these things except for the Ellisons, which is the poorest.

because we live in an autocracy, so friends of Trump get what they want. Antitrust concerns, of course, would be there, but not in this administration. And it does, in a weird way, make a lot of sense to consolidate. some of these assets with other assets. It just depends if the, the gimmies are spread around, but what are your thoughts on this? Well, uh,

So there's suitors that do it for economic reasons, and that is they see an opportunity to create scale or consolidate the back end or for growth. So they're buying it for financial reasons. There isn't a financial buyer here because. This thing, the majority of its assets are in decline and it never made any sense. Not the studio and streaming or the CNN part? But if you look at, but I think if you look at top line revenue here.

This isn't a company, this is not a growth company. And also this stuff, I mean, the problem is you have a mix match of assets and that is the streaming company, the marketplace values growth. But that growth is expensive. And then the other stuff, the market does value EBITDA, but that stuff's declining. So what you have is the marketplace wants a clean story.

and if it was just if it was just hbo and say warner the movie studio that created a vertical integration of content to the streaming platform and hbo is still has an amazing culture and still manages to punch above its weight class it would trade at a much larger multiple. But at the same time, and then it has these other assets that would trade at a lower multiple with a strong EBITDA.

And when you have a mix match of assets in terms of growth complexion and where they are in the business cycle, the marketplace finds the shittiest part of the business and assigns that multiple to the entire thing. So the merger never made any sense.

except for David Zaslav. And David Zaslav, so what... Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg, there's few people who have made more money while causing more harm to young people, right? But they have added tremendous shareholder value from a shareholder standpoint. They deserve their billions.

The most overpaid CEOs relative to shareholder destruction were probably Marissa Mayer, who managed to fuck up everything at Yahoo and walk away with a quarter of a million dollars. But she's about to lose the crown to David Zaslav. Because David has taken out about, I think, a third of a billion dollars so far for taking the stock from 24 bucks where it was when he talked people into merging it and has still managed to take that much money out of the company. And my guess is...

I mean, this is what's going on. I've been on these boards before. He's pretending there's other bidders. No sane, rational buyer can bid on this. This is who can bid on this. The children of people who made $90 billion in one day. who want to go to the Academy Awards and have a big vision for AI.

and will overpay for this thing and it's it look what media has become media has become basically just a spa retreat for the for the nepo billionaires who are the who are the players here the bronfman's sherry redstone david ellison what do they all have common, they're children of billionaires. Because any rational buyer, Comcast, any rational buyer looks at this thing and says, it doesn't pencil out for our shareholders.

Let me just interject. Bill Cullen, who's been very smart on this, I think, is noted that maybe Daddy won't do this. Daddy's Larry is a little too smart. At the same time, why not? It's like, well, the getting's good, and it would help Paramount to have the assets of Warner and HBO. And then they'll just spin off. They don't care about news. I'm sorry. They just don't. All their choices tell me they don't care about.

news, but, you know, merge them together, cut costs, and then spin it off to some PE company. I mean, the cable networks, and then lead them dry. Cable and news, essentially. Is that how you see it, or will they keep it? Just because why not? I don't know. I don't know what it is in Ellison. I mean, at the end of the day, Larry Ellison is to David Ellison what Peter Thiel is to J.D. Vance. And that is...

When Larry Ellison calls his son David, David can never say no. It's like, look, boss, you have one credit card and it has my name on it and you're allowed to use it. But in any moment, I can tell you no. What I think is going to happen, I think the Ellisons are going to get this, and Zaslav is pretending there's another suitor, which there isn't at this price. And he's also, I'll bet, spending more time trying to figure out his exit.

Or how to stay in here. How to stay in here and have a fake role. Or pretend. All I know is he's going to figure out a way to get another $1 to $300 million for selling the company at the price he talked other people into buying it for several years ago. Or just slightly above, yeah. And this guy's going to walk away with Marissa Mayer like, compensation for adding no value here. But what I think they would do is I quite frankly, I don't think I don't buy into these

hair on fire, that they're trying to control the media. I don't think Larry Ellison is that Machiavellian. I don't think they're going to try and take CNN and turn it right wing. I think they will probably sell it. I don't think they want to deal with it. Yes, that's what I said. Yeah, like a PE firm. So I agree with you. Yeah.

What I do think they'll do is say, okay, David, you get to go to the Academy Awards because we'll own Warner and HBO. And I think they're going to take AI and...

Oracle's newfound kind of like, Oracle is kind of a distant, Oracle is sort of a distant number two now to NVIDIA and try and figure out a way to substantially reduce the cost of the production, the means of production and create kind of a new, a true Quibi, Meg Whitman and Quibi said, we're bringing together the best of Silicon Valley and Southern California, which I always thought that's in and out on a sourdough bun.

But these guys are going to try and take content and say, all right, they have amazing franchises, amazing IP. The biggest problem here is we need to reduce costs across the board by 30 percent. And we can do that with AI and we understand AI. And you're just going to see millions of TikToks of creators in the Hollywood community crying into their camera about how.

you know, they no longer need 73 costume designers. Especially, that's the example I've used many times, is they don't need costume designers, they can do storyboards, they can do all manner of things, you know. much cheaper and it takes the cost from, you know, someone was telling me you could take a cost from like $3 million to $330,000, right, versus something else. And I think one of the things that's hard here is

People are very in love with the idea of a CNN or a CBS, but these are declining audiences. So where do they... I think it's smart to grab this before, because there would be an auction for the studio and for... Warner and HBO. There would be, I think. I think there'd be a lot of interested buyers for that asset, right? So if it gets away from the CNN part of it, that's...

That's a problem for the Ellisons. So they want to get it on the cheap, right? Presumably. Or without a lot of trouble, without a lot of bidding. That's my assumption. None of these things are cheap. I mean, Warner Brothers' discovery now is... In October of 25, right now it's trading at a PE of 67. I think they want Warner and they want HBO. They want growth assets. The other stuff.

They can sell to a PE player for cash flow that's consolidating the back end. I don't think their desire is to control the world of news. I don't think they want to step into that thunderdome. You could see them right away doing a second auction to pay down some of the debt if they're going to take out debt against this, and then try and, as I said again, to bring together the peanut butter and chocolate.

of of ai you you are i think what you've said i think these new i think all these newsrooms just for fun i watch cbs abc and nbc evening news and they're what 24 minutes and six minutes commercials 22 minutes is the same fucking thing. And then they all pick a different feel-good story. It's the same formula. You know, again, about a moose that keeps showing up because this old lady fed it once. They're literally, why on earth is the...

difference. Their newsrooms are no different. They're just no goddamn different. Listen, every now and then, as does any news organization, they come up with a good one, right? So CBS 60 Minutes still is quite good, for example. I bet they sell that off. I bet they sell that off. That's my prediction here. So CBS Sunday Morning is good. I can't. You know what? I don't know what I would do.

If I wasn't able to watch Andrew Ross Sorkin explain the stock market to an 83-year-old Leslie Stahl, I just don't. No, but watch it more. When there's more demand. Don't be mean to Andrew. And don't be mean to Leslie. No, no. It's a good brand. It's still great. There are pieces of it that you could do. I presume I could do something with it, Scott. Oh, face the nation is an important thing. I had a couple of those assets. I would have lots of ideas of how to.

digitize it and make it more. Yeah, and you'd take something they spent a billion dollars on and make it worth 120 million. These things don't... Unfortunately, journalism is a shitty business. Well, I wouldn't have to pay $120 billion. So one of the things, you know, it's really interesting here is that... Yeah, and the media gets all, you know, like, oh, no, CBS. And I was like, you know, they're declining businesses, like, by an audience.

point of view. And that's the problem. And when you talked about ABC, CBS, they are all the same. Many years ago, I'll tell a very brief story I was with. I'm not going to say who it was. I was on this network thing and they showed a package. You know when they do those packages? where the anchor sits there and interviews people on a gradiated stage where people are sitting. It was a big news event that happened 10 years before, and they interviewed people from the day, right?

And I was sitting next to Ken Burns, who had just done this really wonderful documentary on the Gettysburg Address, which just happens to be one of my favorite pieces of writing, right, in our American history. So I was talking to him during the package and the host turned to me and he said,

Why aren't you watching my package? And I don't know why I said this, and I said it without thinking, because I was very interested in talking to Ken about this documentary, because it was so good. I said, well, if it was interesting, I'd watch it. And he looked at me, he goes, well, that's harsh. I go, it's not interesting.

Like, it's the same shit. You're always doing the same exact setup. And this was five, ten years ago. And I just was like, you have to make stuff people want to watch, right? And I just couldn't look at it. And they all are the same in some ways. And there's little points of difference sometimes that are really promising. I still think 60 Minutes is an amazing brand.

I think you could do a lot with that brand. And it does rather well online once they get it up there. Look, these things are being picked apart limb by limb because...

You have something like The Atlantic, which does an amazing job and brings together, I think, some of the most talented writers in the world. But I think a guy like Derek Thompson is prolific and has tapped into like, you know, he's... He's under the age of 40, so he feels like they're grandchildren walking around these places. He goes to Substack, and he's making more money on Substack now. I think a lot of the truly great individual contributors are going to...

use the platform for prestige and then veer off and do their own thing. Hi, nice to meet you. What do you think I've been doing all this time? Exactly. Let me just say, The Atlantic under Jeff Goldberg, and also Wired under Tatey Drummond, they found invigoration in terms of higher subscriptions. They're doing pretty good with those.

Only the editors that are invigorating are doing okay, like comparatively to the individual players. But go ahead. Yeah, but you're the perfect example. And that is... You're at The Washington Post. You could be the premier tech reporter. You were the premier tech reporter at The Washington Post and The New York Times. Wall Street Journal. You make a half a million. Okay, sorry. And The Wall Street Journal. Excuse me. Off with his head.

Anyways, let's be generous and assume with comp and everything and... You make a half a million bucks a year? Not the salary, no. That's because I created the conference. I made more than that. Okay, 150, 200. My point is, you make 10 or 20 times more than that, finding... Finding a guy who tells dick jokes and doing your own thing. And now racist jokes. So young. So young as racist. I'm making fun of me. I understand. I love Korean baseball players. They often hit it out of the...

Oh, my God. Oh, Jesus. Is that racist? Is that racist? Anyway, finish up with this. So what happened? So the news to P.E.

The studio stuff. The cable. The cable. The ad-supported cable stuff gets sold off, you know, to just get rid of that shit. It's more trouble than it's worth for them. And no, but they're getting this. I think the deal is probably done, Kara, because no rational buyer. They're going on record and they're creating. I doubt Comcast is anywhere. Comcast is like, well, call us if you take 11 bucks.

a share because that's what we would need to pay for this thing to be able to explain to our shareholders in an earnings call why we paid you know we can't justify anything above that david ellison's These criteria are different because he is the son of a guy making $90 billion in a day when he announces a contract with OpenAI. And that's what media has become. It's become a series of irrational buyers whose parents...

are, you know, worth hundreds of billions of dollars. This thing goes to the Ellisons. They will spin off. the news. It's not a Machiavellian attempt to control the inner thought control. They'll get as much as they can. And then I think they're going to use Warner and HBO and some of the content or some of the studios as their playground.

to do really interesting shit with AI. And on TikTok, yeah. Which they also have control over. That's a really, you know what, I hadn't thought of that. That's the most important thing here. TikTok is the most important thing here. That is really an interesting, taking that content and slicing it up.

and putting it on TikTok, but it all comes back. Occasionally, I have one of those mind-blown moments. When I was in the Fantastic Four, the credits took seven minutes. I know. I just did that the other day. As many people worked on the Fantastic Four is work at Palantir or Reddit. And it's a risk. They don't know how this thing's going to do. That business, other than healthcare...

I think big budget content production is the most vulnerable thing to AI right now. They're just going to go line by line and go, do we really need 22 costume designers for our shoot in Sweden? Do we really need Sweden? Do we really need, every single thing will be, you know, every single thing will be. And all the existing guys, Iger and Zaslav.

They are still very empathetic. And also, because they're all 100 years old, they don't want to rattle the unions in SAG-AFTRA's cages like this. But Allison? Honeybear don't give a shit. He's going to be like, Put out 10 block, but put out a new Superman. Although he is known as talent-friendly. He was involved very...

deeply in the Mission Impossible movies, the new Star Trek movies, and of course in Top Gun. Yeah, he's a rich kid. I just had dinner with a friend of mine who's an amazing producer and does these incredible films. Kara, whenever I meet someone... at an event and they say, oh, I'm like, what are you doing? I produce documentaries. I'm like, oh, how did your husband get rich? I mean, the people in this business, it's like meeting a kid.

who's working in an okay job, not a great job in New York, and living in Soho, it's like, oh, your parents are rich. No young person can live in Manhattan now unless they're working for J.P. Morgan or got transferred by Meta or their parents are rich. And every player now in film production...

in Hollywood, effectively, is someone who is so fucking frighteningly talented they manage to break through. They're literally the, and they're there, but they're in the 0.1%. They're the Michael Jordans of content. Or...

Their parents are putting them through Hollywood. Or they're in the system. They're in the system. So you don't think Netflix is going to try to wait in here in any way? Netflix. That's the wire that you had, Netflix. I don't. I think Netflix is becoming like Apple in the sense that.

We'll just do it ourselves. I think Ted Sarandos realized our culture is so strong and so powerful. That's what the CEO said. We don't buy shit and then try and integrate it and deal with whoever's running fucking Warner Brothers. We don't. We have a way of doing things. We're outstanding at it. And if he was going to buy anything, if Strouders was going to buy anything, he should buy Disney because he would just...

That would be, they have a succession problem, the content. They could have Disney as the Netflix family. They would just own streaming. It would just sort of be game over. But I don't even think, if I'm Ted Sarandos, it's like. We're so good at doing what we do. The existential threat, the only reason Netflix would potentially weigh in here, is that they want to get a ton of content so to compete with youtube so for example 20 of television viewing time last month

is 12.6% of YouTube, 8.3% of Netflix. Netflix has squarely figured out YouTube is their competitor. And if you look at... What Netflix does need, though, and the only reason they might weigh in here and buy some of this content or buy pieces of it post-acquisition by the big price they can't compete with with the Ellison's, is Netflix's content library.

is roughly 36 000 hours long right that's their entire library 36 000 hours that's the same amount of content that youtube users upload to the site every 70 minutes so every hour YouTube is uploaded content equal to the entire Netflix library. And what you have is the two are going to come together. YouTube content.

is going to get much better. The thing moving podcasts in and out of the top 100 is the quality of their video game. And then you're going to see Netflix start to look more like YouTube, and that is they will figure out ways to have

quote unquote, a deal with a podcast, the deal with podcasts they just did is essentially them dipping their toe, not into podcasts, but into a form of user generated content that costs much less. So you've got to see the means of production and the content come down on the one end.

quality is going to go up on the bottom. Two things on the news, because I agree with you that this week, it's all like, we'll talk about the terror in the West because it's really kind of grotesque, but what you said about why don't they take my two...

interviews a week on On and make them into a show. I was like, I have Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris. You could have done a great... By the way, it was great. I don't like to write your stuff, but I did break down. The interview with Bernie was great. He's great. He's really... I can take a billionaire. I don't hate them all. A good billionaire, it's fine. Some of them believe in democracy. Did you like his little democratic voice? That was my favorite thing.

He had a tiny little voice for the Democratic establishment that made me laugh hysterically. Like, literally, if that guy was 70 years younger, I'd vote for him for president. Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't. That's why he was—all the Trump voters went to him. Anyway.

Let's move on. Let me ask you one more quick question here. One more very quick and answer quickly. So if you had, would something like Versant want to buy a CNN and then merge the newsrooms and then have two good brands, two decent brands to try to work with or not at all?

Like, why bother? Because they lost all the news stuff. They lost all their news stuff to NBC, so they're building their own news organization. So why want to take a shortcut? Because CNN has a very good news organization around the world. i think it's just i think it's all about i think it's all about price i don't you know there's a bunch of these upstarts and and who's backing them it cnn would probably It would go for above market because it's such a powerful brand. But CNN...

It has really stumbled the last 12 months. I think its viewership is down something like 30%. I mean, it is really hurting right now. And it's not even the content. I think Anderson Cooper, Caitlin Collins, Dana Bash, Jake Tapper, they consistently, Michael Smirconish, they consistently, Fareed Zakaria, they have some of the finest journalists in the world. Right, and across the globe, by the way, which people don't pay attention to. Yeah, and backed by, what, a...

1200 or 2000 person newsroom. Like these guys, they're great at what they do. It's the distribution and the business model that's fucked. And that is. Nobody's even turning on the screen that is their primary distribution channel, and they haven't figured out a way to monetize it on a very small screen. Yeah, it's tough.

That's all I was saying. Someone could consolidate these two and be the news organization and invigorate it. Comcast could buy it. Comcast could buy it, but so could Versant. Anyway, we'll see if that happens. I think it's going to be a P.E. company.

You know, hasta luego for Kara Swisher. Anyway, in any case, hasta luego for Kara Swisher. Anyway. That's it. You're going to North Korea and you're not coming back? So young. So young. He died so young. Oh, my God. I'm not going to let you do this anymore. Okay. I'll start making Scottish jokes in a second. So, let's go move on. Yeah, oatmeal, savage! Okay, you did it. You did it. I knew you would. You're not even drinking. What do the brightest people in Scotland have in common? What?

They left, Carol. Okay. All right. Very good. Okay. That's actually true. OpenAI. Some of the finest minds in the history of science and economics. I'm trying to move on. I'm getting like exclamation points from the producers. OpenAI has launched a web browser, Atlas. Sam Altman called it a... once in a decade opportunity to rethink what a browser can be. The launch comes a few months after the company said it would be interested in buying Google's Chrome had it been forced.

into a sale. Chrome has 3 billion users worldwide. Talk a little bit about this. And also, Reddit has sued Perplexity, alleging the company scraped the comments of millions of Reddit users on an industrial scale. Again, these... These wars are going to break out all over the place until the numbers get right, when they start paying. Perplexity has been the one that...

usually gets into the most trouble here. But talk a little bit about this browser, because this browser knows, will remember everything you read, not just where your search was. They're going to be like super browsers, essentially. I love this. I love competition.

I think it's good. I think the biggest tax cut in the history, in modern economic history, would be if the Chinese and American leadership decided to kiss and make up and stop cyberattacking each other. take their tariffs to zero the second biggest tax cut in history would be the breakup or more competition in big tech i mean people don't realize you are paying a huge toll You don't realize it because it's paid vis-a-vis advertisers trying to reach you.

But probably the biggest corporate tax in America, other than federal income tax, is the tax of Alphabet to reach consumers online. In terms of advertising, right? In terms of advertising. You have to be on Google. If you want to acquire customers online, which is where all customers are now, you have to start increasingly buying Search keywords and boost your videos on YouTube. These are the biggest toll boosts in the history of mankind for corporations.

and so i and they don't have competition so every year they raise their prices or the taxes they charge consumer and b2b brands greater than inflation so these companies need competition there's some more existential things going on here one Sam has to figure out a way to become kind of Google before Google becomes open AI. So him launching. Exactly. Well said.

Him launching a browser makes a lot of sense. I like that it tracks your searches. I think all of the concern that was in your voice around privacy, I understand. But anyone talking about privacy is usually over the age of 50 and lives in Brussels or D.C. Young people will tell Uber everything about where they, a thin layer of AI on top of your Uber records, which by the way, you cannot delete. You cannot delete your Uber record, your Uber driver history.

And that people will be able to figure out if you just terminated a pregnancy, if your sexual orientation, I mean, they'll be able to figure out everything based on where you're going and when. They don't need to do it. They could do it now. So as long as there's a coupon and utility and I can see that my QX60 is parked around the corner, violate my privacy. That is what America has said.

It's listening to our phone conversations. And by the way, I'm down with that. As long as we have judges who are going to say, no, ICE can't use this information to start rounding up people. I'm, you know, I'm all about violating my privacy in exchange for utility as long as we have thoughtful judges who err on the side of civil liberties. Uh-oh, uh-oh, Scott, but go ahead. Yeah, yeah, that's the operative term there is if, right?

So what I think is the more interesting thing here is, first off, keep in mind, consumers are pretty lazy in terms of getting used to a certain UI. And even with all the existential threat that open AI supposedly poses to Google search, they get, I think, roughly 96 times the traffic of ChatGPT still. And Google search impressions were up 49% year over year. Alphabet.

was my stock pick of 2025 because i think people overestimate the threat if you will chrome has a roughly a market share of 70 making it the most dominant web browser apple's web browser safari even with that unbelievable access microsoft's Safari's at 14%. Not Safari, that's Apple. Chrome is. Yeah, Chrome. No, no, no. Chrome is, you're thinking of Internet Explorer. Chrome is Alphabet. 70%.

70% share. And what is Explorers? Well, remember, Microsoft attempted to get into the game with Internet Explorer. Remember, put Netscape out of business. No, I know, but what is their market share? I don't think it registers. I mean, basically between Chrome and Safari, I mean, and then you have the weird ones like DuckDuckGo and shit like that. But basically, what Sam has said is I want to bring AI into search.

or uh into browsing and i mean so let's look at some of the facts google has uh google has an extremely strong competitor to chat gpt in gemini Gemini has actually gained more share than any other company in AI. They have 400 million monthly users. It's now the fourth most popular free app on the Apple App Store. Just two months ago in August, it didn't even crack the top 50. Yeah, you're right.

For roughly the multiple of S&P, you're getting a search business with 90 plus percent market share, the largest ever streaming service in the world, a dominant AI effort, a digital ad network, Google Chrome, Waymo. We love you some Google. You love using Google. Two other businesses that do over 30 billion annual revenue and four other products that have 2 billion users. The most interesting thing about all of this, in my view, is that...

And the pre-stage is what might happen geopolitically, and it'll be my prediction at the end of the show, is that. it technically the new browser is open weight or open source and it's actually built on the same technology that chrome is built on which google spends or alphabet spends like 100 million dollars upkeeping and essentially

I think this says a lot about the future of AI, and I'll come back to this, but Sam has to justify a half a trillion dollar market cap. So what he says is, okay, I'm going to be the next browser. And I'm going to be Alphabet and Alphabet's trading at a trillion and a half or two trillion dollars. I don't know what it's at right now, but why can't I be a better version of Alphabet? And by the way.

When you look at Google searches, what is the first thing you see? You see that AI summary at the top. Yeah, you do. Let me introduce you because I've covered these companies for so long. But, you know, Chrome really came in and lapped. you know explorer and safari and and all of them very quickly you know in terms of how they in terms of market share but it is moving away from the browser so the more

Chrome moves into an AI, a ChatGBT-like environment, the better for it, right? I remember interviewing Ben Horowitz once, and he goes, there's never going to be a funding of a search. And Jim, there's never going to be a funding of a social network, and there's never going to be a funding of a big commerce platform because of Amazon, Google, and Facebook at the time. He goes, why should we? And so, why should we? Because you haven't seen a lot of innovation.

in Chrome. You haven't seen a lot. And it took open ai to get chrome to innovate right it wasn't it didn't happen they came in through a side door exactly and so sam allman's vision wasn't wasn't to have a browser or a search right but you know it always changes things so it's nice to have it um Honestly, I feel...

I don't use browsers. I'm trying to think of where I search. I guess I search within Maps, within Amazon, within. The search has dissipated all over the place, but it's still owned by the same groups of people, which is interesting. Any thoughts on... We'll get to your...

prediction at the end, but any thoughts on the Reddit suing perplexity? Some people don't like this lawsuit. Others thinks it's- Why is that? You know, Mike Masnick was like, this is a stupid lawsuit, but you know, that some of this stuff is- is available and so they can do it. Other people, you know, I think what it is is another indication of who gets to own the information and who gets to scrape it and what people do with it. But it's open season on everybody's content. That's just, that's.

my feeling. And so everyone's going to try to defend the content they have no matter what it is. You know, Reddit certainly has created a really valuable property full of information that they should take advantage of by themselves that others will take advantage of. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's White House demolition. Support for this show comes from Banta.

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Scott, we're back with more news. The White House is demolishing the entire East Wing to make way for President Trump's 90,000-square-foot ballroom. The teardown should be finished by the weekend. Trump initially claimed his privately funded ballroom wouldn't interfere with the existing White House structure, which was a lie.

He's also now saying the ballroom will cost $300 million, $100 million more than originally estimated. The White House is dismissing the shock and criticism around the devil. Lucien has manufactured outrage, you know, mostly he's a liar, released the Epstein files. That's what I have to say about this. What do you think? The pictures are still very...

setting in some weird way, although the White House has been renovated before. There is a need for a bigger room for some of the functions there. It is, if you've been to the White House, they're quite small, actually. They're shockingly small.

And they should have a lot of functions, but there's plenty of other land around the White House they could have built these things on. Instead, he just did this because he felt like it. Probably it is safer. I'm going to try to... trying to understand but they he did it without asking anybody essentially and of course it's the people's house not his house but it's his house as it turns out thoughts so okay there's the there's the clutching your pearls this is a desecration it's not your

what this means is the following is that he is normalizing federal troops in cities he's creating data around the election process and he has no intention of leaving because i won't if i'm renting a place i won't put in a new refrigerator

much less tear down an entire wing. So let's be honest, folks. You really think he'd go through this if he was planning to leave in 36 months? Yeah, it's his new Mar-a-Lago. He's building Mar-a-Lago. Yeah, and... uh so to me i mean like okay when do we wake up and realize the guy's not planning to leave he's making long-term renovations i mean how long is it going to take to even do this to build this thing it's not so

But he's planning to leave, but he's going to. So, look, I don't. I find the whole thing yet again. Everything's adding up to the following. He wants to normalize sending troops into cities during the election process to make sure whether it's to discourage people from voting or to lie or to show up. uh bill maher said it perfectly it's like what happens when two people show up to inauguration and he's he's basically saying okay if the second person tries to show up legitimately wins

I'm going to show up with troops and masked agents that are basically my secret police. That's where I see this going. And this is just more evidence that he's not planning to leave. You don't initiate an enormous construction project when you know you constitutionally have to leave in three years. Yeah.

I would agree. I think a lot of people think this, right? Or put whoever in place that he wants to. Because as you say, which is my favorite expression these days, biology is undefeated. He seems more addled than ever, missing words and everything else. The only reason I'm not worried. Yeah. Right. Biology is going to take care of it. Right. Except then what, right? And let me just posit that that doesn't happen and a Democrat becomes president.

What do you do? He's going to gold this thing up, right? All over the place. It's going to be so ridiculous and grotesque. What do you do when you walk in there? You have this ridiculous, over-badly-sized ballroom next to it. East Wing was quite... It's not really lovely. I don't love the White House, I'll be honest with you, but it was to scale, right? And so this looks like a weird mutated tumor onto the White House.

That's my architectural determination is a tumor. It's a tumor. But what do you do the next day with this weird patio and then the thing, this behemoth, this grotesque golden... Behemoth? What do you do? Nothing, right? I don't know. I just, I know what happened here. He sat down with some crazy right wing probably.

hot blonde decorator and and what decorators do is they say all right i want mood boards like tell me what they you know they try and make you feel special like you're involved in the process And they say, I redid my place in Manhattan, and they said, what do you want it to look like? I'm like, I want it to look like what it is, a professor who's done fairly well. That's what I want it to look like. That's what it looks like.

And what he did was he said, I want this place to look like you walked into the best Iraqi whorehouse. And they have delivered against it. The decorator, this feels like you are in Baghdad. At a brothel, but it's a high-end brothel. But it's a high-end brothel. Yeah, really? I mean, it's absolutely perfect. Anyways.

It's not enough marble. We need more marble. And as Forrest Gump said, and that's all I have to say about that. But what do you do the next day if you're the Democrat? You're like, oh, my fucking God. What do you do? Let everyone come in? By the way, I've only been to the White House once. With me? Yes, that's right. And I didn't want to go. I was intimidated. I had to bring a suit.

I met you in the lobby. I was worried. I don't, I don't. The idea of seeing all those people and having them kiss your ass like I knew they were going to. Like the vice president. Cass, where should someone hug you and kiss you? Secretary Blinken. Carol! Carol! And all the. Some of the Trump people like me, oddly enough. So strange, so strange. Yeah, key word there is some. Well, no, more than you'd think. I don't know why. Well, you're exceptionally likable. I guess.

I literally say, I dislike you and think you're a bunch of fascists. They're like, yeah, I come to our party. The other thing that struck me about my one tour of the White House was... uh i could not relax living there there were two things one the situation room where you're deciding whether to have nuclear war or not you can hear the

microwave in the kitchen. And I'm like, can they smell popcorn when they're popping it out here? Yeah, they can. It's actually really... It's small. It's poorly designed in my viewpoint. It is. Like the West Wing, the offices are like weirdly a warren of very uncomfortable. It's a very... He is right that it's kind of a mess in terms of as a building, like as an office building. And then I thought, how does anyone relax here? There are 140 people here.

who look like they're about to invade Fallujah, that place is armed to the teeth. And I'm like, you get up at night to grab some milk, I guess the residence is different, and you're going to run into someone with an AR-15. You're going to run into people.

Military? Like, there's no taking the dog for a walk. Anyway, we'll see. It's just grotesque. And release the Epstein files. Thank you. Just release the Epstein files. I don't know what they're going to do tomorrow. I'm, like, waiting to see what are they going to, like... paint the Washington Monument so it looks like the penis that it is.

Anyway, Trump is demanding $230 million, by the way, from the Justice Department, saying he deserves compensation for federal investigations into him. According to the New York Times, the compensation is tied to two claims. Trump filed against the DOJ before his second term. One is tied to the investigation.

investigation of Russian interference in his 2016 campaign, the other, the FBI's 2022 Mar-a-Lago search. I'm sorry, sir, we have the pictures. Payment would likely come from taxpayer money and would have to be approved by the DAJ, potentially by Deputy AG Todd Blanch. Todd.

Trump's former attorney, personal attorney, Trump commented on the unprecedented nature of all this, to put it mildly when asked about his claims. Let's listen. It's interesting because I'm the one that makes the decision, right? And that decision would have to go across my desk. And it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself. In other words, did you ever have one of those cases where you have to decide how much you're paying yourself in damages?

But I was damaged very greatly. And any money that I would get, I would give to charity. Oh, my God. Lie. Huge lie at the end. Enormous lie. And by the way, yes, he has made it. decisions where he pays himself. It's the presidency and evidence in action is cryptocurrency and his children, but his children, his adult sons. And anyway, we're not paying him, are we?

uh i i i think we probably are and keep in mind if the federal government comes for you And the case ends up, let's assume that this was politically motivated and there was no legitimacy or veracity and these things were politically motivated and unjust and unethical. Let's assume that happens quite a few times when the federal government comes to people. If you're found guilty, which he was in one case and not in others.

When that happens to average American citizens, the government doesn't pay them back for their legal fees. So, but we've become... Now we're going to have to pay everybody back? No, sometimes I believe in certain legal cases, if you win a... I think if you win a civil case, sometimes the other side has to pay your legal fees. Yeah, but not the government. But if the government comes for you and you're found innocent.

They don't pay you back your legal fees. Too bad, Donald. So anyways, but we've become, this has become normalized. And to think that this is not going to happen, he got to appoint the head of the DOJ. To think that they're going to stand up to him. Keep in mind, there are, whatever, 53 Republican senators. These people were. freely elected you'd think they'd have balls right they don't they're watching this guy sent p this guy sent people after them to kill them

on January 6th. I just think it's hilarious that they try to position the protest last weekend as violent and weirdo. I'm like, no, that was January 6th. If you're looking for violence in people who hate America, Just go back to the protest of January 6th, if you can call it that. It was an insurrection. But the notion that these people are going to stand up when they can't get duly elected senators who he sent a mob after to kill.

And they won't stand up against the guy to think that Pam Bondi is going to say this is a bridge too far. No, no. Here's the thing. Trump's not going to pay for this. But if they do this, they will at some point. All his minions are going to get God. That's who I'd go for if I was, I'd get all of them. Trump will get away with it. It's just everybody knows he's gonna get away with it. But the minions, not so much, I think.

Oh, I but see, this is where this is the opportunity. And when I'm in one of the shortcomings in the Democratic Party right now, if this goes. OK, take the ice, whatever. Sending people that sending people to El Salvador. There are people all along the supply chain.

that made the decision to send American citizens, incarcerate them, and send them out of the country. I would be drawing up all sorts of bills and publicizing them saying, The statute of limitations on these crimes, whether it's crypto crimes, whether it's fraud, whether it's lying in front of Congress, just keep in mind, these laws, the statute of limitations, are longer than 37 months.

And this is exactly what we're coming for you for. You may think you feel safe now, and you better hope you get a pardon. But I would be drawing up legislation that says, or basically advertising a guy like Senator Murphy or Senator Bennett or Senators Klobuchar and say, these are the crimes we believe have been committed. And he may be the head of the crime family.

But the soldiers go to jail too. And he might be safe because he'll probably be dead or he'll pardon himself. But there are thousands of people, and I'd start naming names. And his family. He'll pardon himself and his family. Can I tell you something? Several of the Trump people I've met said they're asking for pardons already. Why wouldn't you? And at first I was like, what? What did you do? He goes, nothing. And I said, well, he goes, oh, they're coming for us.

And we probably deserve, kind of said we deserve it. Like it was really weird. This is an orgy of corruption. They're coming for you. And where the Democrats, again, the Democrats should be articulating exactly what crimes they believe have been committed. Greg Kassar has, but go ahead.

lists of hundreds of people they believe have potentially engaged in these crimes, and then next to their name, what the statute of limitations is on that crime. Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's make that list. And start saying, okay, be clear, folks. And throughout our 250-year history, the White House and the DOJ flip back and forth. At some point, we're going to have the gavel. We're going to have the power of the purse. We're going to have the power of subpoena.

And we're going to have our own DOJ. And unlike this corrupt DOJ, we will be holding people to the letter of the law. And these are the letters that you have violated. And this is their statute of limitations. The world is shaped on incentives. What incentives right now are there not to engage in this corruption? They're not getting enough money for what they're going to pay Trump is and the Trump family. He'll pardon himself and his family and a few choice people, but everybody else.

you're going to be shit out of luck. Anyway, we have to move on. Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we get back, we'll talk Netflix and Tesla earnings, which are super interesting.

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Scott, we're back. It's time to talk about some earnings. First up, Tesla. Tesla's third quarter revenue was about 12% from a year earlier, but profit fell short of expectations. That's because a lot of people rushed to buy cars, but then Tesla sold them for cheaper prices.

an ability to get loans, so people bought more. Vehicle deliveries were up 7% from a year earlier, but the company says it plans to hit volume production of cybercabs and Tesla Semi in 2026. I wouldn't believe that. Also, Musk was saying he has to create an army of robots. And if he doesn't have control over his army of robots,

He's trying to get his million, his trillion dollar deal, which is going to be voted on in a week or two. And next Netflix, shares of the company are down 5% in the last five days, the time taping after a miss of third quarter earnings. Netflix cited ongoing...

dispute with Brazilian tax authorities for weak results. However, revenue for the quarter rose 17%. The streamer said a quarter ad sales in the quarter were best ever, powered largely by my favorite K-pop demon hunters. There's also going to be some merch.

Great news for Kara Swisher announcing Mattel and Hasbro will release K-pop Demon Hunter's toys, plushies, and games. Let me tell you, among the toddler set, in the Young Below 10 set, they're all dressing like Rumi for Halloween. Not my daughter, but...

and son, but all the kids in school, they're all dressing like Rumi, which is one of the main characters in the show. So thoughts on these earnings? Yeah, I think Netflix is one of the best-run companies in... you know in business um the revenue increased 17 percent there that didn't meet expectations their stock fell 10 but the stocks went on a tear uh net income

increased nearly 8% to $2.5 billion, missing estimates by about 15%. Their operating margin was 28%, and that was also short of the 32% that was expected.

They highlighted a one-time tax expense in Brazil of $600 million for why their profitability mixed. By the way, that... that charge had been previously disclosed to investors on past earnings reports so i think at this point a lot of people are just taking profits k-pop demon hunters which is huge success yeah they keep hitting it out of the park

the movie was produced by sony animation but released directly to netflix at the end of august it's now the most watched movie in netflix history with approximately 325 million views so essentially the population of america has watched k-pop I haven't seen it, no. Will you please watch it so we can discuss it? I only watch things starring my favorite actor, Hitler. Late at night, I take an edible, I have a Makers and Ginger, and I watch World War II in color. You will love K-pop demon hunters.

And then we can sing it together on the tour. Are you ready for the take down?

i'll keep singing it until you watch it that's what we need to do the soundtrack is also top the billboard top charts uh cross promotion netflix mattel and hasbro have have joined together to produce k-pop demon hunter toys look the company i still think i think like i i wouldn't buy netflix here i think that their growth is going to be international i think it's a great company i think they'll probably grow into their price

I'm of the mind now that I think just as we talk about cable cutters or people who cut the cord, I think we're going to start hearing about an entirely new generation of people that just don't own TVs. And also I think our desire for, I don't know if you've seen this trend, I forget what they're called, mini soap operas, this one minute content. And these guys are smart. They'll figure out ways to get into those fields. But I worry, I think that.

I just think everything's moving away. We'll ask you this. I know you like the diplomat. I've been struck in the last 12 months. All of a sudden. I'm not turning on the TV. And I realize that's anecdotal. But I'm supposed to be in the atrium sitting around watching Murder, She Wrote. Are you watching less TV? No, I'm watching specific TV. I like television. So, yeah, like I watched the entire season of The Diploma, which is wonderful, as I said. And I noticed a lot of...

People said, when I mentioned that, said, oh yeah, I did the same thing. So I'll watch. I always talk about hunting-wise, but I'll watch the Gilded Age. But it's all over the place, by the way. I'm watching this Martin Scorsese documentary. I think it's on Apple TV.

I watch specific things and I watch the hell out of them, if that makes sense. And some shows I do watch week to week, right? Like the morning show. Well, that goes out every week. I'm actually in this episode. This is my episode this week. Really? Yes, I'm on it. Yes, it's lovely. This week? This week, yeah. Whatever this episode. Oh, we'll definitely tune in. Yeah, yeah. I got a bunch. I can't watch it here in Korea, so I'm not able to watch my amazing Emmy Award. Just use the VPN.

I know, I didn't. I guess I could. ExpressVVN. I'm too tired. I don't care to watch myself on TV. You don't know where you are. I don't care. You don't know what's going on. I don't care. I saw Oba Spigowicz. I saw a good movie. I saw a cute movie.

I'm trying to go to the movies more with my boys. I saw Good Fortune with Seth Rogen, Aziz Ansari. Oh, it's supposed to be good. And Keanu Reeves. The movie's actually not that well done, but it's a wonderful message, though. It's really nice. Oh, okay. Quite frankly, it's all about income inequality. Okay, yeah. I'll go see, like, with movies, like, I'm going to see Wicked.

That's it, the new Wicked sequel. They're now making Crazy Rich Asians again. I'd see that in the theater. It's just specific. I'm a very specific watcher when I used to just watch whatever. As you and I grew up, we just turned on the boob tube and just stared, essentially.

So I'm highly specific. And I watch threads. I know it sounds crazy, but I watch Instagram. That's scary, isn't it? I've noticed that, too. I get so much of my information now from threads and TikTok. But it's nice. It's easy. It's very snackable.

Algorithms are great. They figure out what we want. Yeah, absolutely. But anyway, so Tesla. Talk very quickly about Tesla. What's your thoughts on that? Well, Tesla, it's a little bit hard to... To extrapolate from these earnings, because there was a pull forward, and that is because the tax credits were expiring, a lot of people went in and bought probably more cars. Deliveries were up 7%.

So this is the greatest revenue they've seen and registered in two years. But again, this is probably due to pull forward demand due to the expiration of the EV tax credit, and demand is expected to drop. Yeah, and also other things. They've got some other things they get to put in their earnings.

that Trump got rid of about around the environment and not carbon, but another one, air quality or something. Well, that's right. Because of the expiration of regulatory credits and also their increased spending on AI, their net income fell.

36 percent so last year they made about 2.8 billion dollars from selling regulatory credits and about 40 percent from america and this is essentially just lost revenue and this this quarter tesla reported the regulatory credit revenue was down 44 percent year on year yeah yeah all the little games are over and r d expenses including ai spend rose 57 they've got to enter the same spending war as everybody else

And it rose to 1.6 billion. And Tesla also blamed tariffs for its crashing profitability, but provided no numbers. It's interesting because they're actually the most vertical automobile maker. They have more, quote unquote, made in America parts. than anything. The earnings call was

really him trying to pivot to AI. And robots. But so far, it's off to a rocky start. They've delayed the production of the Optimus bots, abandoning previous plans to make, I think it was 10,000 robots by the summer. Yeah, I remember. Whatever he says, it's nonsense. And the head of Optimus has led from... For Meta and not only that, this guy was pissed off at Elon because he made a point of saying, I left despite taking a cut in pay, which means you're angry.

They also launched their robotaxi service in Austin, and since then they've also expanded to San Francisco and in both cities. Safety monitors are in the car during the ride. In SF, the monitor sits in the driver's seat. So that's, I don't know. I'm not sure. Waymo's so far ahead, it's crazy. And this is going to be hard to make money. There's so many players in this area.

You know what, you said something, I occasionally do listen to you, and you said something that's always stuck to me, and that is, it is easy to, it's difficult to have empathy for victims when you've never been a victim. That is really registered with me because I've always said, oh, London is safe. New York is safe. You don't need to worry. There's a different set of fears for a guy who's 6'2", 190. And quite frankly, just like.

This is a dangerous thing to say. I have never been, I don't think, a victim of a crime. I've never been assaulted. I've never been mugged. I've never been pickpocketed. I've never had my phone stolen. So it's just not easy for me, and I have to realize I need to have, you know, I need to have, you know. more empathy for people who are victims. And the thing that really struck me is I have heard several women say the following. They hate getting in Ubers because

The Uber driver starts chatting them up, and they feel unsafe. You can ask for a woman Uber, both Lyft and Uber. You can ask for a woman. But that's something Uber drivers have no desire to talk to me. They don't. You're not going to put out. Little do they know that you would put out. That's the thing.

Well, that's the thing. There you go. Sometimes I tip them off when I get in the front seat. No, but I thought that's the last fucking thing I would want to deal with is I'm coming home late from a dinner. And by the way, I want to be clear, some of these guys, nervous guys, are probably just friendly, right? But they shouldn't have to deal with that shit. Most, most. And I thought, and that's why.

That's why, and then on the Waymo caller, the guy who runs Waymo was saying, I think it was the guy who runs Waymo, says, this... Some of their biggest uptake has been by... It's a woman who runs Waymo, but there's another guy that runs it with her. But go ahead. But have said some of their biggest uptake has been from women. And I'm like, that just makes sense, right? You don't want to deal with it. And quite frankly, I don't...

I don't, if I could have a driverless car, I was thinking about it, would I want to do it? My experience so far in driverless, I haven't enjoyed, other than the technical sophistication and the wonder, because they go so fucking slow. It's like having a 16-year-old overcautious driver. I hate that. They've gotten better.

They're now like an aunt who's a good driver, but it's too slow. It used to be grandma who's not such a good driver. But the promise of... They're faster. I noticed they're faster in San Francisco later. That's great, because I think the promise of... of autonomous is the following in london the most one of the most crazy frustrating experiences is the open road no traffic and in certain places where there's cameras

the guy is no joke has to go 25 miles an hour and you're trying to get to heathrow to make a flight and you're on a highway and he's going 25 and the real in my opinion the promise of the promise of autonomous is that you'll be able to do away with speed limits And you let the supercomputer decide that thing can go 90 miles an hour. Yeah, that would be a great thing.

That would be great, yeah. Why do we have those signs at all? Anyway, we'll see. You know, we'll see. I think he'll probably get that pay package approved, although the two big shareholder services who he keeps trashing said, this is fucking ridiculous. And he said he has enough control. that he'll be able to control his robot army, whatever that means, but not enough. What do you think Bernie Sanders thinks of that pay package? Oh, God, he doesn't like it. Doesn't like it.

He has to hit certain numbers, by the way, everybody. Like if he doesn't, he'll find a way to get paid, this guy. But he said he doesn't have enough control if he's insane not to get fired. And I'm like, um...

Sorry, I think we passed that station on the train of Tesla at this point. But let me take the other side of his pay package. I'm actually relatively unoffended by the pay package. Because he's made a lot of money for it. Well, what he's saying is, if I make shareholders $4 or $5 trillion, will you give me a 10% or 20% commission on that? In my opinion, from a pure capitalist standpoint, I sort of get it.

What I am not comfortable with is someone who aggregates that kind of capital and then pieces out to taxes and engages in massive tax avoidance and that he pays a smaller percentage of his earnings than a person on the factory floor. Don't get in the way of upside of compensation, but tax people. Have a progressive tax venture. You know, it is linked to his performance.

But that said, when he said, my robot army, it made me, like, frightened of humanity. He does this all the time. He's such a troll. Anyway, he'll probably get it. It doesn't matter. And we'll all be outraged. And then they'll tear down the West. swing and we'll be outraged. Anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Hi, this is Bella Freud.

Each week on Fashion Neurosis, I invite guests from the world of fashion, art, sport, music and literature to lie on my couch and explore the connection between fashion and identity. This week on the show, I welcome the actor, Tessa Thompson. Sometimes while I'm tidying, I'll just put on one of the heels that I've left behind. And the idea of sort of like clomping around my house, sort of tidying in a heel. Yeah. I love. Find Fashion Neurosis on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ever gone on vacation outside the country and felt like the food was just better? When I was in Japan recently, the produce and meat were amazing. And even a minor skin issue that I usually have cleared out by the end of the two weeks. What's up with what we eat here? Tomatoes are renowned for looking delicious, but not tasting delicious. Is some food actually better in other countries? And what are they doing differently? A law passed in 1993.

that said, if you're buying bread in a boulangerie, it must be made with four ingredients, essentially. Find out more this week on Explain It To Me. New episodes every Sunday, wherever you get your podcasts. We're hitting the road, bringing Pivot Live to the people. Seven cities, Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A., of course. You went to Oasis. You went to Beyoncé. You saw the remake of Wizard of Oz.

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Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's your prediction? Just so you know, New York City Mayor Eric Adams just endorsed Andrew Cuomo, which I predict will make Zoran Mondani the mayor. That'll give him another 11 votes. They want that Curtis to get out. Curtis ain't getting out, I think. I think Curtis is in with him and his cats are in it to win it. I think Curtis is the Ralph Nader of the conservatives. He's like, no, it's democracy. I like Curtis a little bit. I like he's.

Seems insane, but I like him. I like the hat. I like the whole thing. I like the cats. I actually have enjoyed him weighing in during these debates. It's usually Mondani. Cuomo screaming at each other. There's always a guy like that. New York's such an amazing city. They always bring out an interesting guy. Remember the guy, the rent is too damn high. The guy with the black gloves. He just kept saying, the rent is too damn high. He was right.

They're trying to get him to pull out so that Cuomo is doing everything possible that's nothing to do with the voters. It's like Trump's help, get Adams out, you know, everything except. appeal to voters, which would seem to me to be the thing to do if you want to be mayor of New York, but whatever. Trying to get people to pull out often doesn't work. Okay, let me hear this prediction. Said my 15 and 18-year-old.

My prediction is the following. So America is run for profits. What dictates our society is shareholder value. of someone's character, their ability to have health care, their ability to have freedom, their ability to have a broader selection set of mates is based on their ability to acquire shit or signal that they can acquire shit through monetary economic power. That's how America is run.

The Chinese government is essentially run and China is run for control and for power. And one of the ways they do that is they're much longer term thinkers about what positions them long term geopolitically. And I think essentially what's going to happen here is the following. I was sort of blown away by the fact that this openweight browser that Sam Altman has basically shoplifted.

that anybody can use because it's sort of technically open way to sort of like open source. I think if I'm the CCP. I am pissed off. They have their problems, but essentially Trump is really fucking with them with these sclerotic 100% tariffs, non-tariffs, and they are being very strategic. and they said okay we're going to come for the heart and lungs of republican voters and hey folks i don't know if you heard but we buy 50 of your soybean crops

And from these red states, we're stopping and we're starting to buy from Argentina. And your president is stupid enough to give Argentina money as we transfer business. That business is never coming back. Farmers are out of business. They're now going after rare earth. minerals that are key to play a real strategic role in everything from cars to missiles. And I think the next, I think after going for our hearts and lungs, they're going to go for our jugular the following way.

I think they're going to release a series of open source or open weight AI tools that crush or put real pressure on our Magnificent 10 and take down our market. and put us into a western recession if i were in charge of ccp defense and strategy i would be saying to she if we really want to go for the jugular America is now a giant bet on AI. Let's make this a bad bet. And the way we're going to do that is we're going to release a series of DeepSeek and DeepSeek-like competitors that are free.

open source, and essentially do the following. My biggest client, I started a strategy firm when I was 26. My biggest client was The Gap. We did a bunch of demographic research, and the group we found that was most underserved, and I could relate to this. was single mothers who wanted their kids to feel good about themselves because they were very self-conscious about their lower income and that dad wasn't around.

and so we positioned what i thought was the most brilliant thing in the world at that time and that is we said 80 of the gap for 50 of the price and we targeted single mothers and it was called old navy and old navy went from zero to a billion faster than any retailer in history I think China is about to

Old Navy with OpenAI or Old Navy on AI. They're going BYD on. Exactly. Exactly. But they're going to do it in AI. Oh. And they're going to say, here's an idea. Have you been talking to the CCP? We have a bunch of amazing AI tools that are all free that you can build on top.

of you don't have to pay a subscription fee. We're not going to pelt you with advertising. And guess what? We're going to take the magnificent 10 down and we're going to take your whole fucking economy down. Make them five and a half.

The magnificent five and a half. Oh, wow, that's really good. I like that. I like it. I like it a lot. And by the way, for people who aren't paying attention, she has just consolidated power over to CCP. He's made it smaller. He's gotten rid of people. He really runs the show. Anyway, great.

one, Scott. Okay. Well, that's quite a, I like that. I'm going to watch that one carefully. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen's.

Scott Universe this week on Prof G Conversations. Scott spoke to one of my favorites, Heather Cox Richardson, a historian at Boston College, author and the voice of the newsletters from an American, very popular. Let's listen to a clip. One of the things that frustrates me to no end is the idea that there was ever a United States of America that was not multicultural is simply a fantasy.

And, you know, we talk in history about how whiteness is a constructed category. And, you know, that, you know, you get all kinds of pushback on that. But it is worth remembering that Irish immigrants to the United States were not considered white.

I just sit there and think, okay, we're just going to make it up, right? We're just going to construct our idea of what the past looked like, because the reality has always been that the United States was about... working together as communities within a very, very broad range of people. She is amazing. She's amazing, and everybody should read her and listen to this. I love her. I think she's an inspiration. I love a professor who's just so passionate about a very narrow niche of the world.

After working her ass off for 30 years, she's an overnight success. I just love that she's getting a ton of what I think is well-earned recognition and attention. I love having her on. Wow. Good for you. Good for her. Yeah, she's a very sharp historian.

And reminder, we're going on tour. We're going to be going to Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A. We're sold out in Toronto and San Francisco already, but please visit pivottour.com for tickets, especially you, Chicago. We got an extra large venue for you.

You guys, because you have big shoulders, come see us there. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Thank you.

Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, safe travels.