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developers, providing intelligent tools for your service agents to make customers happier. AI built into a single platform you can use right now. That's why the world works with ServiceNow. Visit servicenow.com slash AI for people to learn more. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Box Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher and I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, you got here late. You were flying in. Yeah.
Lots of news while you were on the plane. I heard. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy times. I have to tell you. It's been a crazy few days in the aftermath of the assassination attempt of former President Trump. But even more news. We've got a lot to discuss about that, including how social media is fueling conspiracy theories and misinformation. What a shock. And now Elon Musk and others are shaping
the post shooting narrative. A little later, I'll talk to the friend Pivot, David Plough, a former Obama campaign manager and current host of the campaign managers at podcast about what it all means for the election. He does that with Kellyanne Conway of all people. I will ask him about that. But first, Trump, while we were just sitting here, I just selected his VP pick. It's Ohio Senator JD Vance. Lots. I want you to go because I don't I don't feel as if I had no match about him.
Okay. I met him when he worked for Steve Case, very moderate person, I would say, almost like very anti-Trump tech person smart. He wrote obviously Hillbilly, LG, got him famous. Great book. Great pride. Or actually, he since turned into a rabbit attack dog for Trump in this really big shift, which I find either performative or vaguely disturbing. If it's real, I don't know if it's real. He was talking about the grievances of the whites in the middle of the country,
white poor people. He certainly clocked that. At the same time, he came from that background. At the same time, I find him disingenuous and aboli. I think it's a pick for someone who thinks he's going to win. I think if he had picked Doug Bergam or Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio, if he was interested in governing, he would have picked Marco Rubio. If he was interested in someone who the business people would like, Bergam would be the choice. He's not doing the safe choice. He's
doing the not safe choice. The legacy choice, essentially. Scott. My initial reaction is that it's a smart choice for Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what put him over the top. I saw him on Meet the Press. He was able to just calmly and eloquently lie. He's very talented at that. I think he's very good. He was able to, he was able to, I mean, I came away thinking, wow,
it's the Democrats that have turned up the volume of the run. And then I remember, wait, didn't, didn't Trump send an angry mob of people with zip ties and nooses to try and go after the vice president and the speaker. So I think he's good-looking. He's young. He's smart. He has kind of his finger on the pulse of the tech bros. Yeah. I think it's a good, I think it's a good pick for him. Yeah. I'm not so sure. I don't know. We'll see. I think he's appealing in some fashion, but he's
really an awful person. Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. Yes, that's true. All right. From a political point of view, I think he's a dangerous person, actually, comparatively to the others. I think Mark Rubio is certainly the established and choice. And would be, is a very, would be good at governing, right? And Bargain certainly is a calm choice. Dull, but calm. Sort of a, not someone that would outshine. I think this guy is going to
outshine Trump, and that'll be an issue. In his announcement on true social, he said that JD Vance was, quote, best suited to be vice president. He referenced Vance's time in the Marine Corp. His book Hill, Billie Elegie, his career in tech and finance. Mr. Vance, he said, champion, the hardworking men and women of America would continue to do so on the trail. Yeah. You know, I can see the, from the physics, he's a very physically oriented person. I think he probably
thought he was the best looking. I know it sounds good. It's important. And he was always going to pick a white man, no matter what. I think it's a, I want to be clear. I, I find him, I agree with you. I think he's scary. I don't, it strikes me that someone can sit there and say these things. And then you go back and look at the tape of what they said 24 months ago. And they just have
absolutely no problem saying it. But from a pure brand standpoint, I think a solid, the Marines, good looking, very good on camera, brings the average age way down of the ticket. I think it's a good pick for Trump. He'll be able to take on a common hair as to, you know, debate if they ever have one, if they're ever what is one. Anyway, the idea of a 39-year-old
person without any experience possibly being present. As you said, there's a chance that any of these candidates since they're so old from actual, I'll tell you, it's good dying office. And we'll get to the assassination. But this is just a old age we're talking about. And so this guy could be president of a very young age. He attacked me on social media many times. Really? Good for you. He's a piece of work. Anyway, I think he said, unpleasant nasty piece of work.
And he's pals with all the tech bros are correct. And very close to Don Jr., if wow, he was John Jr's twice. A movie under a main story, which is obviously president Biden calling for the country to lower the temperature in our politics in the Oval Office, address following the Trump assassination attempt. The shooting at a rally in Pennsylvania killed one man injured Trump and critically wounded two others. Thomas Matthew Crookes,
the 20-year-old shooter was killed by Secret Service snipers. It was very close, actually. Seniors at the official said Sunday that agents were investigating the shooting as a possible domestic terrorism attack. And they're still determining the motive. They can't seem to find any. The Republican National Conventional Procedives plan this week. It's already ongoing, according to Trump campaign and R&C officials. You know, this is sad. Although the temperature
is really hot. And this kid was sort of a nondescript, lonely, loner, possibly bullied, math geek, kind of person. She liked to shoot rifles. He registered a Republican. He gave some money allegedly to the Democrats for a very small amount of money. So it's not clear, but he was a registered Republican. So confusing. No social media information that they can find. They're trying to get in his phone. And a lot of friends, initial thoughts.
Well, obviously there's a lot here. And whenever this happens, it's an awful look for America. It threatens democracy because autocracy is a small group of people trying to, you know, taking power. And this is, you know, assassins are essentially, or assassination attempts are essentially one person trying to change the course of history. And very destabilizing, you know, world wars have been started with this type of thing. So and also you just hate to think
that we're that nation again, right? And so it's, it's awful. And I think actually President Biden has been quite eloquent on it, trying to say, you know, we need to turn the temperature down. The thing I find disappointing, though, is that first off, the temperature's not going to go down. The notion, you've already seen Republican elected Republican officials blame it on D.I. And my, I put out of things saying, no, this was clearly the fault of Obama. You did. I thought it was smart.
And this is what we're ignoring. Oh, it's, it's D.I. Okay, that's just fucking crazy. Most people won't believe that. More people say it's a function of the rhetoric and the intensity of the exchange. I don't think that's the reason this happened either. If you look at this kid's background, I don't think there's anything to indicate. He was some sort of radical, politically motivated person.
I think he's the same as almost every shooter. And that's the following. He's a young man who is struggling, who is trying in an attempt to recapture social status, who has access to weapons of war. That's what this is. There's not the AR 15 that he used. I don't know if this qualifies as a mass shooting. But again, the notion somehow that we're going to turn down the volume that there are nays there are other nations, Western nations with the political parties where the rhetoric is
very incendiary. There are other nations where there are young men who struggle with mental illness. There are other nations with too many single parent homes. There are other nations where there aren't enough institutions. The difference is we have a lot of these struggling young men except that the variable here is they have access to weapons of war. And this could have been much worse if the kid was a better shot. So I think again, D.I. and the tone of our dialogue are
nothing but Mr. Rucks. This is about access to weapons of war. And also mental illness or loneliness. And not to be sympathetic to this kid, but I felt so sad when I saw that picture was like, oh, him that kid, right? Didn't you? Didn't you? You're like that kid. We knew that kid, right? I mean, you just, that's a thing. We know who this, we know who these people are before we knew who they are. When I heard about this, I'm like, it's a young man who has no, who who has been socially isolated.
And in an attempt to recapture some sort of social status. Yeah, no, interesting, no sign of mental illness. No, no, no, no, you know, a couple of these people, they were hospitalized or there was very, there was lots of warning, warning, warning, right? And a lot of these school shootings and things like that, that one kid whose parents just got convicted. In this case, there wasn't this, the interviewing people around his school. Oh, he seemed fine. You know, he was nice, quiet,
that kind of thing, but not scary. Yeah, I was really saddened and you know, they were making a lot about them giving $15. I was like, maybe he did. That's a real clear. He was a registered Republican. Same thing. I don't even think it matters to register Republican, although it takes an act for a young person, you know, he's not, he's not got political. And, and, and again, we ignore the show.
evidence. Some people who are 20 year old are political, but the vast majority, the vast majority of mass shooters, the day before the shooting would not be classified as mentally ill or at least you wouldn't be able to do anything. So look, mental, mental illness, no doubt about it. It's
something we need to focus on, but using it as a misdirect from the real problem. It's just uses a heat shield where people pretend all of a sudden to care about mental illness when they voted against this type of funding for more public places or counseling or what or suicide prevention,
but they want to blame it on mental. No, it's a misdirect to misdirect. It's 100 and also the one of the things that I think is interesting is the instantly, I think media did pull back, you know, a lot of like they weren't going to do morning job in case they said the wrong thing, because the right is blaming MSNBC. I don't get that. What do you think of that? I think that's friggin bizarre. Like, do your work, do your job. Like, don't like, they're scared of saying the wrong
thing. They're scared of saying the wrong thing, and which is ridiculous, because I'll tell you, the right didn't wait for a second. You had Marjorie Taylor Greene doing pitos and communists where they did this. I was like, hey, it was a 20 year old sad, something old kid who wanted attention, who thought he'd get away with it, I think, in some fashion. The fact that he had such a clear shot was I found disturbing for all political candidates,
right? That he especially presidential ones like, whoa, boy, this kid was on a roof that was so obvious. It was. Yeah, there were pictures of him before the shot. I sort of was like, I could secure this perimeter better than the security reserve at this point. You know, I agree, the charge rhetoric and polarization, I think, a part of it, a little bit of it, and Donald Trump is, you know, I think Biden is so much less charge rhetoric than Donald Trump in every regard. He
did, unfortunately, say bulls eye last week, but that, you know, that's a common thing. People always use shooting metaphors and politics, but and shouldn't, but we all do it and we shouldn't, we should think about it. And Donald Trump talks about carnage and blood doubt all the time. It's just that I'm not so sure that that was it at all. I just don't, you know, I don't know, maybe, well, it's maybe a little bit. Well, I would bet like the majority of us,
you were going to find out that the kid, I mean, the kid wasn't involved in institutions. People, he had very few connections, a loner kept to himself, and I don't think we're going to find that he was like on message boards, we totally freaked out about Trump. Everyone will try and find the easy solution of the solution. The makes the other guy look bad rather than facing the
hard work of the following. We needed to invest more in institutions and give young people more opportunity and create early warning systems that show more empathy for young people, specifically young men and for God's sakes, we can't win when they have these episodes, give them easy access to weapons of war. But no, we're going to say it's DI or it's home. Yeah, I know. Well, let me get to that. Social media is flooded with misinformation and conspiracy theories, especially acts, of course,
and Elon Musk keeps touting it. He's real media now. He's not real media. He's a piece of, anyway, Elon Musk and some other tech business leaders using their megaphone to criticize the Secret Service Diversity Initiative and making unsubstantuted claims about the shooting, just like they did with that guy who got killed in San Francisco. Wrong, wrong. He's not Antifa. He also formally endorsed Trump after the shooting as the Bill Ackman because they couldn't have the
spotlight away from them for a New York minute. Meanwhile, the SpaceX rocket had a catastrophic failure. Maybe he should have focused on his businesses. He's pulling back in the in the Robo Taxiaries. None of his businesses matter at this point. It's just wants to be the focus of attention. Do you do you think that matters at all? These kind of things online theories and stuff like that false flag? I think they're really unhelpful. And I think your takes a right one.
This is awful. It's awful for everybody. This should be a bipartisan, this makes society less safe. And so this is, I believe the first assassination attempt on a president since Reagan. But it gives you that sense of that fear that our society is collapsing. And then this BS notion, and I think I think the president's more authentic about this than we need to tone down the rhetoric. Okay, I get it. That's not going to happen. And nobody wants to deal, nobody wants to deal with the real
problem. But also I hate to say this, but it's true. He's going to be, I bet in the next poll, that comes out. I think he might be up by double digits. That image of him pumping his fists with blood on his face with an American flag above him is going to be the most iconic image of 2024 if not the last decade. He really knew what to do. You got to give the guy credit for his instincts. Look, the thing that the thing that summarizes what is so dangerous or upsetting for Democrats right
now is the following. I have a friend I'd even call my good friend in Florida. He's a real estate broker. He's this lovely young man, just a beautiful family. He's so likable, so good at what he does. And we're friends with them. They're trumpers. We just don't talk about it. They're very religious. Nothing wrong with that. He posted on his Instagram feed yesterday an image. And I don't know if you've seen this image of Donald Trump with a, a visage an image of Jesus standing
behind him with his hands on his shoulders. Yeah. As if he was the chosen one. Yeah, I know. That's a long time thing, but it got even worse. And I thought, oh my God, they believe this guy is the chosen one. Yeah, it's interesting. One of the parents of Sandy Hook, because I think Marco Rubio said God was protecting Trump. And one of the parents said, oh, yes, they weren't protecting God. It was protecting our kids. Like, what are you wrong with you? Like, you know,
that there's the chosen one. Yeah, there is that idea. I mean, I think him, it's interesting, because people on both sides of the political spectrum are sharing theories, the false flag, claiming the picture was staged. He certainly was fast on his feet, so to speak. Yeah, it wasn't stayed. There's, there's a particular series on both sides that were some of the right, but I don't know if you heard, but right before Melania gave her public statement, she was heard yelling
into a phone. You had one job. Two soon. Two soon. I like a joke. I like my favorite joke was from Simon where they said it's, let's, let's hope it's not a time traveler from the future, who can't shoot something like that. Anyway, oh, no, I, the truth is, I mean, the probably the most likely conspiracy theory is the Democratic party order to hit, but they use Timo for it.
They use Timo. All right. Well, stop with the jokes. You know, it's really interesting, because there are, there's a lot of them on the left too with this like, the bullet thing, and whether it was glass from the whatever the teleprompter. I don't care. He got attacked people. Like, they're called, they're called blue and on. They're called blue and on. No one wants to deal with the reality that we in our nation are producing too many depressed lonely young men.
As, you know, someone wrote me as he so, so shall we reap? I'm like, I don't think you want that to be your taste. But, but I'm telling you, Cara, if we don't, I was just, I just did a podcast with Senator Al Franken on his podcast. If we don't, you know, I mean, I mean, it's hard to tell. I believe if we don't announce a new nominee and take some oxygen out of the room here and shift a narrative really quickly, I think, I think we're just going to get crushed because there's just no getting
around it. This, this helps Trump who was already up a great deal. And, and unless we like the day before the convention ends, announces that he's stepping down and we announce a series of debates or something in this is just, it's just it's quite frankly, we don't want to admit that this is
running away from us. It's running away from us. Running away. Running away. And then, of course, by the way, finally, the news broke a few hours ago that Judge Eileen Cannon dismissed the class of my documents case against Trump and ruling Monday, Candid's at the appointment of a special counsel, Jack Smith violated the Constitution. I wonder if she's ever read it. Her argument is that because Smith was not named a special counsel by the president or confirmed by the Senate as
a point is a violation of the Constitution's appointment. Because it's not true. Eileen, I can read, and I'm not even a lawyer. This will be certainly appealed and they will win. This woman's been slapped down by conservative, very conservative courts because she's really, I don't know what else to say, but legally incompetent. It'll get reversed, but you know, it's his toughest case, the strongest of the four criminal cases. They probably will have a new judge on this one,
but it will it will take forever. This woman's been reversed, I think twice before. And she seems like a suck up. I have them think that all the lawyers, even the conservatives are like, she's dumb, she dumb. But it helps Trump. Trump's got some sort of luck happening with him. I'll tell you. He's on a roll, but I do think she's transparently out at herself for someone who should not sit on the bench. But still, just delays it, delay,
delay, delay, and obviously that's really pretty much how it works. And it works for people. And that's where it'll go. So Trump's got quite a week. Let's just say he had quite a week of activities around him. He definitely doesn't disappoint on the news front. I'll tell you. But I agree. Let me just say one thing. News people should not pull back on covering it. I'm sorry. It's a terrible thing that he was shot, but he still has a record. He still, you know, they should
be covering both candidates strongly and toughly. It's terrible. We'll learn more hopefully about the kid, which takes a breath. I think it doesn't hurt to call to turn down the volume or the rhetoric. It won't. Let's get back to the good work of ensuring that that 2025 is not season seven of the handmaid's tale. Exactly. I don't look good in red anyway. All right, let's go on a quick break. You had some flight delays earlier today. So I spoke with our friend, a pivot David Plough,
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time offer just for startups. Go to Coda.io slash Pivot today and get six free months of the team plan. That's c-o-d-a.io slash Pivot to get started for free and get six free months of the team plan. Coda.io slash Pivot. A quick note, I taped this interview with David Plough earlier before Trump had selected JD Mancer run as his vice presidential candidate. OK, we're back with our friend of Pivot, David Plough. He was
the campaign manager for former president Barack Obama. You might have heard of him as well as a White House senior advisor. He's currently co-hosting the campaign manager's podcast with Kellyanne Conway and Hannah. I've had some differences about this. We're going to get into it. David, welcome. Thank you for coming. Great to be with you, Cara. So let's first talk about the
effect the Trump assassination attempt will have on the presidential race. I hate to do it in only those terms because it seems like that's sort of like the horse racey kind of thing, but it's obviously a major event where in the middle of a presidential cycle. I love you sort of be a little more thoughtful than he's going to get more votes or whatever. Just how do you look at it when you first heard about this? Well, super scared for the country, Cara. And you're right. I think
hopefully voices will be lowered a little bit, even with our fierce disagreements. And this will be the last political violence we have in this country for a very, very long time. So that's one question is, are things really going to change? You know, we'll get a sense of that. Very good sense from the Trump side in Milwaukee this week. You know, he just put out a true social post. It seemed to suggest that unity for him and getting rid of all the investigations and not
criticizing him. That's obviously not unity. So I think that I do know from the research I've seen with voters, you know, if Donald Trump were to signal that he might be a little bit different than the first term, you know, maybe a little bit more magnanimous, maybe admit that he lost the election. It go a long way from a mathematical state. So there's how both sides handle it. I do think the discussion about replacing Biden freezes for three or four days. I don't think it goes away,
but it freezes. So that's important. I look at it a couple ways. Are there people who were either truly undecided or leaning Biden or FK that are now good vote for Trump? I don't think there's not many of them. There's some, particularly if he handles this in a way that surprises people. The other point is turnout. Is it going to help them the Republican turnout? And my strong suspicion is it will. There's a lot of people out there that even if they said, hey, if I had to
vote, I'd vote for Trump. But I'm not really, I don't think I'm going to vote. This probably gives them a more of a reason to do. And we see an every poll is fascinating change because American politics has changed in this regard. It used to be a high turnout election would benefit Democrats, low turnout Republican. All the polls suggest a lower turnout on this race to better provide. And so if Trump can actually create higher turnout helps them. But my big answer is who the hell knows
this is unprecedented. And I think we have to let quite a few days, if not week settle, before we get a sense of that. And it is like an ongoing Trump TV show in a lot of ways. Obviously, Trump's the star of this. Obviously, he just got off right now in Florida on the documents case. For now, at least for now, let's just say it probably will be overturned on appeal because this judge is that's what happens to this particular strange little Florida judge. But
talking the idea of him changing, like I see that a lot. And I noticed the media really pulled back. It's horns quite a bit. And I know they are doing that. His subordinates and his surrogates are not doing that. And he is not going to do that from my perspective, because I think they'll they'll take advantage of that of the indignation. I've heard the word they did this to him. And I'm like, it's a
young 20 year old troubled Republican young man. But I don't think it Republican matters with this kid. I think he was just troubled in many ways. Exactly. Well, Karen, I agree with you. My point is as a as a political practitioner, if Donald Trump somehow were to send real cues to people that this has changed me a little bit, you know, what if he actually said, listen, I was really upset I lost a Joe Biden. I think he's old and frail. But okay, I'm running against him because he clearly
won. And I'll respect these election results. I think I'll win. Well, he'd do that. No, it'd actually be a really smart thing for him to do. Well, he stopped talking about Hunter Biden. He won't do any of those things. Now, I will say this having, you know, been responsible for conventions in the past. Every word that a speaker says from that stage has been vetted by the Trump campaign. So there they have complete and total control. So we'll know how serious that they are about
just talking about immigration and inflation and foreign policy and not the personal tax. And of course, Donald Trump's rise back in 15 and 16 until now was largely fueled by embrace of violence, rhetoric, you know, attacking Muslims, attacking Hispanics, by the way, then there are copycat murders and assaults, right? That those people said were because Donald Trump told them to. So this would go against everything we know about him. So my sense is this sense that I saw Axios
wrote today that well, we really believe this has changed him. We'll see. I hope it has. I highly doubt it. And I think we'll be right back in the political sewer, you know, before too long. We can always otherwise. I just seeing the surrogates. I'm watching like Marjorie Telegram is back to pedophiles and Carlos and Elon Musk and well, JD Vance, who's on the short list, you know, basically Joe Biden for this. So, you know, we'll see. I by the way, I mean,
I don't know who the hell Donald Trump's going to pick. Maybe it's somebody none of us are really talking about. But if he picks JD Vance, that would strongly suggest that he's going to double down and everything he's done to date. Right. Well, he could put him in the cabinet or whatever else he could do with him or keep him in the Senate. One of the things that's interesting is the idea of emboldenment. I think when you get shot at and you miss, if you have a narcissistic
personality disorder, you might think you're a god, correct? That would be my inclination for someone like this. Well, we don't know what he thinks. Certainly, that's been what a lot of his supporters say that this was an act of probably. Then obviously, listen, we should all be so grateful because he has a father, a grandfather. Most importantly, we don't want anybody to kill this country. It is interesting. Again, this is an AR 15 that a lot of Republican lawmakers
wear AR 15 buttons, not the same outrage when young kids are slaughtered. But obviously, Donald Trump had been assassinated. I mean, the country would be completely torn apart more than it is. So, you know, at the end of the day, I think, you know, he was convicted. You think being a convicted fellow would change you. He now survives an assassination attempt. We'll see. He is, you know, been through Lee and completely a narcissist in his behavior, not just in his
political life and his whole life. We'll see. I mean, again, a sane person might say, I'm leading right now. And there's no question he is. He's got a small lead. I'm leading in the race for president. I could avenge my loss in 2020. So let's gather as a team and talk about all the things I could do to further my advantage in chances. That just doesn't seem to be how he rolls. Kindness would be kindness would go a long way. Right. Something. And I'm not overstating.
And he's still Donald Trump. But just some acknowledgement and some, some like you to swing voters. And even some of the Republican voters who aren't sure they want to vote for him that like, listen, I'm going to govern a little bit differently. I don't expect that to happen. But, you know, sometimes getting to 50% of the vote or 48% of the vote in this case does take rocket science. You know, right now for him makes me sad as a Democrat less so. And so you should be in the
business of addition growing your market share. And that has never been seen what he's interested in. But but I do think right now he's got a moment to potentially do that. Would it be just him and then just that the surrogates get mean or what how how does that run in these kind of I don't know how it comes around you've already been in the middle of one. Well, listen, I think I think consistency is
really important. So I would have your surrogates this week and going forward, basically not to part too much from what he says. But again, my suspicion is maybe by Thursday night, he'll be back to the same old Donald Trump. But if not, certainly by the next Thursday. And they'll all be back to, you know, basically pedophiles and, you know, Democrats are trying to ruin the country. Don't forget in the debate, you know, Donald Trump said Joe Biden would destroy America has destroyed
America. He's not been subtle. And that creates anger and division. So I but I think listen, having run campaigns, what you want is every ad, you know, that you're responsible for everybody giving a speech on your behalf, every message you want it to be consistent. Two reasons. One is it's hard to reach people. So you want to definitely repeat, repeat, repeat until you're sick of it. But two, you don't want people coloring outside the line. So hope would work. Yeah,
work for you. Right. But like, well, frustrate me if there's a sense, oh, you know, Trump, you know, he's trying, but it's all these surrogates. He's got complete and total control. I just want your listeners to understand that. You don't leave anything to chance in a presidential campaign. Talk about the visuals. Which of the visuals? The last ones were pretty dark. Yes. I would call. Yes. And and and Megalaman, Manai, call with the shadow and the whole thing.
Yeah, very very uber 1.0 carer. Actually, yeah. It's very kind of this caloric. You know, I think there's, I've always been a fan of having as many people as possible. People behind you, people on the video stages, the lighting being a little bit upbeat. I think it's a great point and and convention people spend a lot of time on this. So again, if the visuals
are overly dark, it's not by accident. And so, you know, listen, if I were Trump, I'd have a bunch of people speaking at the convention and say, listen, I voted for Biden four years ago. Here's why I'm not. I hope Biden does the same thing in Chicago, assuming he's our nominee. So so getting real people to speak about these issues rather than politicians, I think is really important. The only two speeches that really matter this week will be Trump's and then his VPs.
I you know, the conventions are long, a lot of speakers, but you know, the networks only cover the major speakers. Although there's always one that sticks out, right? I mean, Obama, that's how bomb I got on the right. Your keynote can stick out, right? Somebody can surprise you. But so it most it's three. Cuomo Clinton. But that was for negative reasons. He overcame that. He gave like a three hour speech back in in 80. But you know, before Obama was Obama, he gave that speech
to go. Oh, it was critical. That's right. That's correct. There could be one of those. There could be on both sides. We'll see you Biden picture the keynote. I hope it's somebody in their 30s, maybe even their 20s, who will excite people. But I think that the major thing and far and away, it'll be Trump's speech. And because of what happened Saturday night, there's going to be a lot more interesting Trump speech than it would have been. I'm just curious
who would you pick for the keynote? Well, if I were him, I'd pick a young diverse voice from, you know, battleground state, if you could. I think Biden should do the same thing. I mean, we've got some really whether it's Josh Shapiro, the youngish, youngish governor of Pennsylvania, Jasmine Crockett. I think the really dynamic congresswoman, Mark Kelly could be interesting from Arizona. But but we've got a lot of talent. That by the way, that's one thing that's been revealed.
And this was discussion about should Biden stay the nominee or not. Obviously, I think if he doesn't, Kamala Harris will likely be it. But we got a lot of talent out there. I mean, we got a bed better bunch than we've had in a long time. Absolutely. So that's exciting. Not just for 28, but for the convention. So when you're thinking of the vice presidential pick, do you for him? Do you? Does it really matter? So historically, if you look at all of them, they matter very little.
You know, voters are choosing the presidential candidate. They're not voting for number two. Palin hurt McCain because it spoke to poor judgment. McCain was already voters thought was he a little erratic. This added to that. Bush was a either to overcome the first push. The quail pickback in 88, but it caused some turbulence for the campaign. So I don't think it matters that much. I will say there's a difference between even though they share the same policies. A rubio,
let's say, and a JD events. JD events is we saw from his statement after the assassination attempt Saturday. He's on the further. Now it's all bullshit. You've talked on I've talked on, you know, he didn't believe any of this stuff a few years ago, but this is the role he's playing now. And so I do think for some voters, but by the way, because Trump 78, you know, there's also questions of, hey, if he's elected, there's a decent chance he won't make his his full term. And I
don't say that because of an assassination attempt, just health. So I, but how much does it matter? Not that much. I think it probably is the most overcovered story in American politics as it relates to the campaign. It greatly matters in terms of the judgment of this person. And if something were to happen to them, is this a good qualified person? By the way, it also say rubios probably a lot more qualified to be president than JD Vance's 100%. So before that, you just mentioned age for
the shooting, all eyes were on Biden. That was the story. Now it's just swirled out of the situation. And it will be swirled out for the next week at least. Do Democrats still try to get him to step aside? Is that still an ongoing debate? I know your your former partner, David Axelrod is working it. Sorry. Well, it's a great question. I think it freezes for a little bit. And you know, last week seemed like 12 weeks, right? There was part of last week where it looked like Biden,
it settled things down. Then it really a bunch of people came out against him. Then after the press conference, people had James Clyburn said, okay, I'm fully for Biden. So I think he's probably going to survive this. I think that there's, but, but to me, this is healthy. I know it's not. I don't like seeing it. Live layers. Well, my point is like, this is a big decision for the country and our party. And I think that what he said in the press conference, you know, did say if my team tells
me I can't win, I won't run. Now, uh, General Malley Dillon, I can speak to I know her very well. I'm sure she's telling Biden exactly where the race stands. I can't speak to other people. I hope they are as well. He's losing like he was losing pre-debate. He's losing now. Would you say it's impossible for Joe Biden to win? You'll never say that. So I think he'll hold on to that. And he has
defied history in the past. But, uh, you know, Donald Trump right now has probably a three to five point lead in the battleground states in a couple of states out west, maybe a little bit more than that. That's deeply concerning. Now does that mean Kamala Harris or another Democrat would automatically switch that? No, there's risk in any, I think situation here. But you got to understand what, what, what caused a lot of the unrest last week was Democrats running for the Senate and running
for the house got their own polls back. And they didn't like what they see because Biden has slipped. And a lot of them can probably perform two to four points better than Biden. But they can't overcome Biden losing eight to ten points. You know, there's been a poll suggesting New York and California are a lot closer than we'd like. And if we don't have the top of the ticket doing well enough, the no states, we won't win the house, which could be really important in a scenario where Trump
were to win sadly. So I think the conversation will continue. But, but the other thing is, you know, Joe Biden is going to do some interviews this week, even though the campaign's control curtailing their activity. He's in this very unenviable position where every public appearance is going to be judged really intensely. And there's clearly, if he has another really bad moment, I think there'll be more Democrats to come out and say he ought to withdraw. But the clock's
ticking here, Cara. We got a couple weeks. We got a couple weeks, probably. And do you think that's a good thing? Well, it's just a calendar, right? We don't need to do the roll call virtually anymore. So I don't see why we would do that. Let's let it go to August. But you know, at the end of the day, we do have to get on with winning the race. And if it's Joe Biden, what I think you'll see is even Democrats who said they wished he wouldn't run will get on board. I think I'll have surrogates
in the battleground states. So people and ads for them making the case. But Democrats should make no mistake. It brings me, you know, real pain to say this. This is the worst position a democratic presidential candidate has been in since 1988. That's just the fact that was Bush to caucus where DeCalkus actually led. But once we get into the summer, you know, Bush opened up a lead. This is the worst position doesn't mean Joe Biden can't win. But what drives me crazy is when people suggest
that, you know, well, it's bad polls or look at this poll or we got to deal with truth here. And it's not just the polls. His approval ratings in the mid 30s, almost 80% of the electorates not sure he's up for the job. He's got to answer those questions. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Talk a little bit about the involvement of tech people. There's sort of a dub. There's a there's a split in the tech group. There's the readhoffmans, Mark Cuban side, I'd say. And then the Elon Musk and his stance
essentially, Bill Ahmed is in that little sad little gang with him. We talk a little bit about the impact of that because after the shooting, you know, when all the Democrats are trying to be nice, they immediately attacked and immediately said it was a, you know, it was an Joe Biden order it or that it was DEI or whatever. They could just continue on the same nonsensical bullshit that they tend to like to do constantly, but it was repetitive and it kept going. Talk a little bit
of it. And then they decided to because they're an arsesist, both Bill Ahmed and Elon Musk, they had to like say, we declare for him because they couldn't have the eye off of each of themselves at any one moment. Talk, is that important or not at all? Or just a lot of rich people cosplaying powerful people? I think it's very much the latter, Cara. Let me give you one historical
example. It's a long time ago, but back in 2012, an Obama was running per reelection. You remember, we had a really tough economy, high unemployment rate, you know, but we were starting to recover really tough race against Romney. So, you know, we're trying to research every way we could talk about the economy and some of that's validators. So best would be someone who worked at an auto plan, say I'm, I only still have a job because Barack Obama stepped in and saved us. Great.
It was also could we talk to business leaders and you know, a lot of the tech community supported us back then. So we talked to voters in states like Ohio and Wisconsin and said, okay, what if these tech loaders said Obama, they trust him to store the economy? What would that mean to you? And they said it would actually either mean nothing or it hurt them because those people don't employ jobs in my community. They're very wealthy. They're disconnected from the real world. So I don't think
it's going to have any impact with voters. Will they raise a bunch of money? Yes. And that helps a little bit on the margins, but money matters less than a presidential campaign. So I think they think they have more prominent voices than they do politically. They have trumps here and that's not unimportant because if he wins, they'll be in the Oval Office and they'll be talking. Well, it's critical to my school. Right. And well, and most listen, you know, he's one of the most
dangerous people on the planet right now. There's no question about that. He's really become not just unhinged, but really deeply anger and driving hugely dangerous and wrong accusations against immigrants, against women. It's really awful. Yeah. Well, if Biden wins, Musk loses badly, I suspect he's on the downward slope. If Trump wins, he's safer for sure. Maybe. I mean, we'll see what's interesting to me. I mean, you let's talk about business from
it. I'm amazed. And it's already hurting him. But like, you know, if you think about the people who are thinking within a week's time about purchasing electric vehicle, it wouldn't be hard to run a campaign against Musk to make sure you remind people they tend to be more progressive, more upper income. What he said, you have better options. Like it is, it is malpractice of the highest order from business standpoint. That's my personal opinion. But but their voices and politics will
swing voter in Wisconsin really matter what these narcissistic tech bros say. I highly doubt it. Yeah. Do you regret your time doing tech? I mean, I'm sure you would advise different tech people now, but how do you look at what happened with you there? I just for people don't know, David worked for Uber. Yeah. I worked for Uber and then I spent, you know, I still spend some time helping the Chan Zuckerberg initiative. So philanthropy, no, I'm very proud
about what the Chan Zuckerberg initiative does in science and education. Also, Donald Trump threatened to mark Zuckerberg, but good. You know, right. Zuckerbugs in sanity, all Mark and Priscilla trying to do was was help voting during COVID. And by the way, every county, including every red county could access that money and many did. You know, my time at Uber, I don't regret it. Obviously, there was some cultural challenges there that, you know, were shocked to me and were hard to
manage through. But I look at at Uber and, you know, particularly, you know, under Dara, there's been agreements with labor unions. There's healthcare benefits being offered in some states. Like, I think I'm really mature way to evolve the business. But no, it's a source of work. It's a source of transportation. It's a source of how you develop cities. And to me, it was almost like getting, I don't want to overstate this, but kind of a faux PhD in the cities of the world, how they work,
how they employ people, how you interact with public transportation. So I don't. The one thing I did find, and this isn't just about Uber, generally, I think there's a lot of people who lead those companies, certainly, but some work that them that almost pretend that they're not a business first, that they're doing societal good, they're a charity. And they're all businesses, right? Don't ever forget that. Don't confuse. Right. They're heroes. Right. And I think sometimes
they're ready to play one. I don't know if you understand that. Yeah. I love that book. But yeah, you know, so I think I think that's changed a little bit. But I think it's hard when you're told you're changing the world first, as opposed to, hey, we're building a business that we think has some good societal impacts. It's hard when you get criticized. No different than politicians. I found some of the most things skinned people I've ever dealt with are big financiers on Wall Street.
They just can't take the criticism. But I don't listen. We know our world's going to continue to be shaped by technology. You've been an amazing chronicler of that. Whatever you think about AI, you need to get as smart as you can about it. And to have as much as a front row seat to some of the changes in our economy is important. Now, you do a great job of criticizing those that could be harmful. The leaders that aren't stepping up and doing the right thing from a leadership standpoint.
But we can't hide from it. It's here to stay. Whether it's quantum computing or whether it's AI. I mean, listen, what's happening in battlefields in both the Middle East and Ukraine and Russia. Warfare is going to be completely changed. And we have to understand this. And this is one thing that that does depress me about a lot of the presidential campaign to date. Like they didn't talk about AI, didn't talk about quantum computing things that are going to define the next few decades.
I'd love to see these candidates talk more of that. Well, they're not going to. It's not, it's not that they're trying to do. Maybe they'll be forced to. Yes. Maybe they'll come on your podcast. They absolutely don't understand them. They don't. And they are not equipped to do. So let me finish up asking you about you know, you and I had it back before the bell Kelly Conway. I have so much regard for you. And I do not have regard for her. I'll be honest with you. And you talk about
getting along this whole thing right now. Everyone's like, we got to turn down the who that I get along. I find you to be a very responsible, respectful, honest person. I do not think the same of her. I think she constantly is manipulating things in a very similar way. The idea of the words used. And so, so talk to me about why you decided to do this podcast. I'm going to be as open-minded as part one. Just so you know, this week I had a long discussion with Ben Shapiro, my he and I had a
so I can talk to people. Well, I appreciate you asking that. So I listen, I think, you know, modeling the fact that you can disagree without hating each other is important. You know, that was something I learned from Barack Obama. But that's not the reason that I'm doing it. For me, I had a podcast the last two years, last two election cycles loved it. Talk mostly to
Democratic operatives, the Republicans I talked to were never Trumpers. And I really thought to understand this election properly, both for myself and for listeners, you know, it's not shooting free throws. And someone who understands Donald Trump, Donald Trump world, those voters is important. And you know, Kellyanne did not deny the election results. Important for me, maybe small line. But she said Donald Trump lost criticized his criticism of early voting. So we're going to disagree
about almost every policy. I'm sure I'll say things about Donald Trump. She certainly won't like, I know she'll say things about Joe Biden and common hairs. I won't like. But what I found is when we talk about practitioners, let's talk about battleground states, let's talk about how each campaign is dealing with early voting. You know, we'll talk this week about how you'd handle the RNC convention in the aftermath of the assassination attempt, how Joe Biden should campaign.
I feel like there's something to be gained there. What I've heard from people is who've listened to it is like, listen, it's interesting because we all are in our information. They both practice. Even as it relates to, yeah. So I think when we're as practitioners, there's something there because I like being on MSNBC. I like going on hacks and tap with my friend
David Axe Rodd, but we're kind of see the race in the same way. And I find the more we can understand about, you know, how Donald Trump's run campaigns, how this one might be different, we understand the election will definitely. So that's why I did it. And I think that it's hopefully a service to people out there because I think that one of the reasons both parties is or always surprised when they lose an election is their information streams tend to say, don't believe this bad
poll or we're going to be okay. I mean, I'll never forget God back in 2012, which sounds like a coin time. Republicans, including Mitt Romney, were shocked that he lost because Fox News, in particular, those last 60 days, we're just like, oh, bomb is going to lose. Oh, bomb is going to lose. And I think the same thing can happen on our side. So I think that that's why I did it is for me personally, to better understand 360 degrees of this election, I thought I needed to talk to someone
not from the never Trump side of the Republican Party, but from the Trump side. But someone sees a practitioner and Kellyanne led a presidential campaign. She's a poll center. You know who I'd love to see you do a podcast with a Suzy Wiles. That's just fast. Yeah. Well, by the way, I wouldn't I'm sure, you know, Tim Alberta from the Atlantic had this amazing story with Suzy Wiles and Chris Lasavitas. She said campaign manager,
just like David was. Right. Highly worth reading. It's a much more professional outfit. Doesn't doesn't mean I think some of what they said was bullshit and bluster, but, you know, two smart professionals leading and that's important to know. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Last question. When you are looking in the wake of all of what's happened this year, everyone uses the word unprecedented, right? Do you think these are unprecedented times or just times because they're we we have a sort
of a lack of historical knowledge in this country. Forget it goes down a memory hole and that's that. To me, when you start to look at history, some of this feels very, it certainly rhymes,
history rhymes. I agree with you, Cara. I think we're just going through times. And I actually one thing I've observed of the last couple of decades is the things that would have been in prior times like massive and they'd be in the news for weeks and we'd all be reading and seeing the same things and talking about they move on more quickly, like even this assassination attempt. You know, a week from now may not be as heavily discussed on social media. So I think it's times.
I think this election might be unprecedented just because, okay, now you have an assassination attempt this closely election. You have an incumbent president who's being challenged within his party. You have a rematch. That's quite unusual. You have a lot of voters who actually disapprove of both candidates, so called double haters. You've got an election where it seems like low turnout would help the Democrat very unusual. You've got Trump actually in polls anyway doing better with
young black and Hispanic voters in a way that would be somewhat unprecedented in modern times. But Biden actually showing real strength of the older white voters. So there's a bunch of strange things happening. And so that's where I do say I have a lot of humility about this election because there is a lot of things happening that when they all collide together, we're not sure where it nets out. So I think this election, if it's not unprecedented, it's really taxing the
system in terms of some unusual circumstances. But I think the times we're living through are just times. And I think I'm glad you call that out because I think that sometimes we can be narcissists about this has never happened before. It's like actually it has. There's real derangement from the right for sure for a long time. And there's increasing derangement from life. Like it's really it's interesting. Like you can't have an opinion without it getting in a court. Of course,
it just could be noise online noise, which I think it is. Which is why I'm well 70% of Americans. I think like camera man was pure gallop, but you know, they termed them the exhausted middle. Where they actually grin a lot of stuff, not all stuff. They're not active in politics. And we know that the 20 to 30% of the folks in both parties that drive so much of the social engagement and the attention, they are not part of that exhausted middle. And by the way, I think more on the
left actually believe their issues and what they're fighting for. I think on the right, there's an entertainment notion to it that the crazier you can be like MTG and others. And even in the aftermath of assassination attempt, they believe that they're better for it. What is it? Madison Cauthern that one term congressman from North Carolina said, I'm not going to hire any legislative staff. I'm just going to hire communications because it's basically a performance. And I think
sadly too many people in that wing of that party believe that. Yeah. Well, he had quite a performance that you were talking. Anyway, I'll get into that. He's gone. Good luck. Good riddance, Madison. Anyway, David, thank you so much. I really appreciate hearing from it. So it's so nice to have some sensible talk. Well, Cara, thank you. And Cara, you are an interpreter for me about so much that's happened both in the world generally in tech specifically. So thank you. I appreciate it.
You know, for the tech people, you just said, I have four children, so I'm really good at toddlers. Anyway, anyway, on that note, thank you so much. All right, one more quick break and Scott and I will be back for wins and fails. Hi, this is Cara Swisher, host of On with Cara Swisher from New York Magazine and Vox Media. And wow, what a month we've had. There's so much going on right now, two ongoing wars overseas, deepening political turmoil here in the US and a presidential election
that might now be in flux. Well, we've had a great lineup of guests on the show to talk about it all from the US ambassador to NATO, Julian Smith, the governor at Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, to my latest episode in interview with Rachel Maddo of MSNBC. Knock that off my bucket list. I'm so excited to talk to her. Have a listen. If the Democrats replace Joe Biden with Kamala Harris or with any other candidate, will they have a better chance at beating Trump? I don't know another
do you? We can't tell from this vantage point. But if Joe Biden were running against Donald Trump today, he would lose and likely lose badly if the polls are accurate. The full conversation is out now and you'll want to hear it. Find it wherever you get your podcast and be sure to follow on with Cara Swisher for more kick-ass conversations like this one. Even before this past weekend, this election was bonkers.
First of all, it's a straight-up rematch. The rematch from hell, the rematch no one wanted, former president versus current president, newly convicted felon versus father of newly convicted felon, the two oldest major party candidates to ever run for the top job record-breaking old men. One guy facing more legal challenges than every other president in history combined. The other guy facing relentless calls to step down from just about every corner of his own party.
But saying he's got to stick around because American democracy's on the line. We had never seen anything like it before, before this past weekend, before a kid in Pennsylvania tried to kill Donald Trump. America just dodged a bullet and maybe we can learn something from it. That's on today, explained. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I have weird ones. I thought the court case against Alec Baldwin was his pure identity politics and when the prosecution has to call themselves as a
witness to defend their handling of the case, I think it'd be been a young woman of color. I don't think this case would have been brought and I think he's a very unlikeable old white guy. But everything I read, it just, I'm not a lawyer, but it made absolutely no sense to bring this case against him. And I'm glad I thought, I thought the judge got this so right and she was visibly angry at the prosecution. Yeah, she was. She's a good judge. These judges
are so good. Isn't she just so impressive? Not finally canon, but this one. Go ahead. No, but I was anyways, I don't and I have a story here. The I did a podcast with Alec Baldwin. He invited me on his podcast when I released my book. It was like a year and a half ago and he was so distracted, upset, didn't know his lines and it was either his producer or my producer came on and said, we're really sorry, but Alec is this was right after he'd been charged.
And he was so I don't I forget if it was the but he just the prosecution had just announced that they were going after him essentially and he was visibly so rattled he couldn't get through the podcast. And I don't I don't blame him. I also he has 900 children. But go ahead. My fail was what what strikes me is just the worst type of identity politics and putting the patriarchy on trial agree with you. I think it's very unlikable, but it seemed like a lot agreed. But the nice
thing about the bench is supposed to sit does back. I think there should be a civil trial and so much it's going to take money from them, but that's different. I think you probably created an unsafe sloppy environment on that set. Yeah, I don't I don't I anyways I thought they got a right.
I don't know if that's my fail or my win, but my my win is in my brand strategy class, the most popular session of my course is something called the brand you and I talk about I'm using brand strategy principles as a means of being successful professionally and using it as a guidepost for your own life. And I talk about very successful individuals who were outstanding
and managing their own brand. And I use mark I use three examples Margaret thatcher Muhammad Ali and I'll get to the third, but they have a few things one they demonstrate excellence they're just amazing what they do. There's nothing like excellence or having a great product in terms of a brand. They have very strong visual metaphors whether it's a market thatcher's hairstyle or that nitpansuit or suits you would always wear Muhammad Ali they're having their incredible
storytellers incredible in terms of the medium. You know I am so pretty or telling you know poetry but more than anything more than anything they were and so comfortable with themselves and their beliefs and their beliefs that they said yeah strip me in my medals. Fuck it. I this is against my religious values. I am not going to Vietnam. Yeah I don't care. I you know I don't care that about the miners or that the fact that everyone is demonizing me this is bad for Britain.
They were comfortable with themselves in their own decisions and my third example of this brand strategy of being successful through deaf use of your brand was Richard Simmons and Richard Simmons was he actually didn't demonstrate that much excellence but he had the fourth big feature
and that was empathy and that is people want people who the fastest way to get someone to like you is to like them and when you're a public figure and Bill Clinton was great at this I'm not Bill Clinton at a fundraiser and he came up to me and he shook my hand and he said I heard you
were raised by a single mother too and he looked at me and he grabbed my hand no joke and he looked into my eyes and he said it wasn't easy was it since then I raised money any time I couldn't do anything such an easy lay oh my god that was it that was it he touched your arm didn't he
but empathy right and but let's go through all of them okay uh visual metaphor I'm at LaGuardia I'm at LaGuardia it's 30 fucking degrees outside and this guy takes off his overcoat and he's wearing a sweater except it's not a sweater it's a tank top and back hair and at the moment I
realize how horrifically this is I also notice the guy is wearing dolphin short shorts remember dolphin shorts and case twists with athletic socks and it's Richard Simmons and I'm not exaggerating the wild I'm not exaggerating but this is like 10 15 years ago I'm not exaggerating the whole airport
comes to a standstill and all the TSA offers go Richard and he like clears people away from him steps back throws his hands into the air and goes hello yeah to the entire airport and the airport went electric and here's the thing about Richard Simmons empathetic wanted obese kids
which he was to be healthy good at what he did visual metaphors always wore those short shorts always wore that weird sparkly tank top and case with he was gay before it was cool he was like I don't give a shit but he wasn't what you think I should be or not true I am comfortable with who Richard
Simmons Richard Simmons is down with Richard Simmons all right okay Richard wasn't out by the way just so he just wasn't out oh he was but he wasn't that was one of the issues the gaze at you know in any case I'm not gonna say a bad word about him I don't care he was fantastic and let's pour one out
anyways my my win my win is the life and time of Richard's life and time but let's also pour one out for Dr. Ruth who also died who was wonderful speaking of someone who was who they were I love to I love Dr. Ruth and Shannon Dorety who was Brenda on 9 or 2 1 0 troubled but it fascinated you
died sadly of cancer and she'll be involved but you know what Dr. Ruth though really says it what a wonderful place America is where else could Dr. Ruth have immigrated yeah she had this wonderful line she said basically one and a half million Jewish children were killed and
it's up to me to help prepare the world yeah she was a happy person she was a happy she was a really where where else would she have recognized the influence and success if she hadn't immigrated to America I agree I agree anyway all of them I'm glad you brought that up all of them I'm I hope you're all doing well and and I hope you and and Luke Perry are in are in the peach pit right now Brenda anyway I will do mine my fail as we tape this nearly 300,000 people are still without power on the
Texas Gulf Coast today in Washington it's close to 100 degrees by the way but there it's even hotter a full week after Hurricane barrel slammed into the area some 80% of those customers of central point energy the power company has been notoriously slow to restore electricity leading governor
Greg Abbott to threaten to quote to quote impose my own requirements on center point that are geared to keeping the power on I would arrest them Greg people in southeast Texas in several days of triple digit heat index without air conditioning food is going bad this is remember this is the
state where they have a massive statewide power outage during a deep freeze in a room was freezing same thing also by the way is happening at Vermont flooding massive flooding because of barrel uh they hasn't moved up the coast just really reprehensible that they can't keep lights and
energy on or get it on quickly after this is an area of hurricanes they should have this a little better sorted out at this point so I feel terrible for all those people suffering both Texas and Vermont my win uh is guess what I did Scott I I took Twitter off my phone really I'm not I
didn't I didn't quit it because I don't want something to take my thing because that fucktards over there will take it but I I don't have it on my thing and I'm actually enjoying it I'm getting news from news organizations as I always do but now I don't immediately go and look
there for news it's an easier it was my news it was my news thing and actually I'm getting a lot of news on threads I have to say it's not that bad it's not my I look at videos on fun videos on cooking videos on threads and and things that they do to build wood without nails and things
like that videos like that but I have to say I took it off I feel so much better especially having this happen with Donald Trump I'm so glad I wasn't there looking at all that ridiculous Q and on bullshit see conspiracy theory and that's just he lawnmoss you know what I mean
I'm so glad I didn't do it I feel good about it I feel good I feel like you're that native American at the end of one flu of the kukus nest it literally is so strong it pulls the sink up and he throws it to the window and escape yes that's what I did that's what I did that's what I've
done I still have my account as soon as it as soon as he defaults and and decides he was not cut out for media and self-dose someone responsible we'll go back yeah we'll go back I was glad to do that and I actually did something I speaking of community and doing things I went to an Orioles
game I'm wearing an Orioles hat right now that's a really cool I was wondering about that from I was sent to what I was fun it we went to Baltimore which is a city that I just love it's so charming and interesting we went for dinner we walked around we went to the aquarium we went to the Italian
section of there and then we went to a game it was so nice everyone out sounds like a very American day it was really great I have to say it makes you feel so much better I'm feel 100% better not being on Twitter and actually going to a baseball even though I have no interest in sports but I
got a hat anyway Scott I'm seeing you're changing me Scott you're changing me welcome welcome to Twitter rehab it feels really good yeah thanks it does you didn't ask about my weekend what did you're waiting what did you do you were in London right literally 18 hours ago I was watching uh
Spain win or beat team England okay um at the Olympic Stadium in Berlin it was great to get a look at that Olympic plaque uh 1936 Jesse Owens won the gold medal but uh team Spain is just incredible they are probably the strongest young clarity and team England the British fans
love to ship us a team for some reason they they did amazing this tournament but me and my youngest got our kids and we followed the team around we went to Munich we watched the game in Dortmund and then we just went to the game in Berlin and it was just fantastic it was just um
good Germany is such a wonderful country every city I go to Berlin's kind of got this edge and cool to it I did my favorite thing in the world I did big fat tire a tour or big fat or what's called fat tire bike tour we got all these world sports too oh yeah uh historical places
Hitler's bunker these guard towers and my 13 year old pretended to be interested have the bunker they thought they got rid of the bunker the bunkers now a parking lot they purposely wanted to make it as nondescript as possible they covered that's right and then when we went to the uh the memorial
from murder Jews and my son was asking me thoughtful questions about it it was really just such a rewarding experience I absolutely love Germany and there's a lesson in here and I apologize into them hijacking your win but Germany was has been for the last two or three hundred years
one of the most liberal progressive accepting societies at thriving gay community before it was cool different religions welcome except for a 12 year period and it's just very strong memory or I think a stronger reminder for all of us to think that it can't happen in America ignores history
1935 Germany or 1931 Germany progressive Jews welcome celebrated academics a thriving gay community this shit can turn so fast and uh and by the way Germany's turned back Germany is now one of the most tolerant progressive nations in the world some scary right wing stuff well that's happening
across all of Europe but I would say on the whole Germany gets a really outstanding grade for coming to grips with its history and being being a wonderful progressive nation economic powerhouse amazing manufacturing sector and all of that how can you not love I find a new or things
are either sequestered there's either things for kids or in America you go to Disneyland which is just awful for the parents great for the kids or you go to a great bar which is which is great for the adults but kids are welcome Germany is the literally the threads the needle perfectly they
have beer gardens with trampolines yeah well unlike France which does not like your kids any in any case uh it can happen here and by the way if you want to listen to a lot about that usually listen to my interview with Rachel Maddow today that's on a lot talk about that
talk about Germany and how it tried to propagandize this country didn't work last time and now we're doing it all by ourselves anyway uh we got to go we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind go to nymag.com slash pivot
to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot all right Scott I'm Auska Zijkner I'm going to say it again it means excellent in German thank you far from New York good only word you know you need your wife speaks German can you come up with some more moose and far from New York and or not
can you do that yeah no anyway that's the show we'll be back on Friday with more please read us out today's show is produced by Larry name and soy Marcus and Taylor Griffin learning habitat engineered this episode thanks also to juberos and miscivario
nishat kura's vox media is executive producer of audio make sure you subscribe to show wherever you listen to podcast thanks for listening to pivot from New York magazine of vox media you can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod we'll be back later this week for another
breakdown of all things tech and business rest and peace janan dorety Richard Simmons and Ruth West time and Shelley DeVol and Shelley DeVol thank you if you've been enjoying this podcast here's a look into what else is happening at New York magazine
i'm kory seka and i'm here with wightamine who has written about the american obsession with nds where did they come from why are they everywhere and are they good for anything besides covering up for abusers after you poked around the nds for a while do you see nds used mostly as tools of abuse
and coercion you see positive results like where where did you land on nds i think in most situations it is used as a way to sort of claim power but not even necessarily to like to do a bad thing it's just kind of it is this now the sort of boring standard tool in the toolbox of
corporations or powerful people but now it's being used on the people at the bottom it's the warehouse workers at amazon being made to sign them or like i was just trawling job listings while doing the story and there were nds for forklift drivers and like people working in butcher shops and
i think on the one hand it's just kind of like well i might as well there's no downside for me to do this but it is also just another way that you sort of keep your employees or people you get into a relationship with and that you sort of keep your your thumb on them so i do think it is at the end
of the day the people who are giving them out by and large are trying to control someone do you think that they're going to become standard for like literally every interaction in job interview and possibly relationship as well or do you think they're just finally going to die or become
outlawed like where do we go from here you know it was corporations first then it was celebrities then it was just rich people who aren't famous but they also want to protect their privacy the next frontier is people like you and me and and are we going to start giving them to their
partners you know i think some people are going to start start experimenting with it it doesn't take much to go online download a free and d a and without even consulting a lawyer and hand it over to someone i did as a joke send one to my girlfriend uh she hasn't signed it yet but uh but i i i i i i at least sent it so that's Reeves wideamant who may or may not be single soon you can read his work on andeas in our beautiful print magazine in your own home or on ny mag dot com slash line up