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Learn more at Chevy.com slash Equinox EV. The manufacturer suggested retail price excludes tax title license, dealer fees and optional equipment dealer sets final price. Scott, I'm moving to London with you. We got a spare room. Okay, bring your umbrella. All right. I've got a lot of kids. I got four kids. If you move here, you got to support Arsenal. I'm bringing umbrella.
You're all right. The wretched refugees of the swish glatz can. And plus you have to leave Claire when you go back. I need a daughter to take care of me when I'm older. No, you know, where are you raising my daughter? Hi, everyone. This is pivot from New York magazine in the box media podcast network. I'm Cara Swisher and I'm Scott Galway. Scott, where are you eating an apple?
I'm in the great state of Florida. I'm staying at my friends Bobby and Jojo in their Canadian, which says it all day act like we on the home and their guests. They're like, oh, we hope you didn't bother you last night. I'm like, give them my word. The guest here. It's okay.
You're allowed to get out of your lives. How are you liking Florida? I love Florida. I live in a or are we have a home in a wonderful little town called Gulf Stream. We have great friends here and. Yeah. I mean, it's easy to ship. It's easy to ship post for I think I feel like probably similar to Florida where you feel like San Francisco. And that is.
It's a I think it's a I don't want to say it's underrated, but we have a really nice life down here. And it's less crazy than people think we actually living kind of a purple district or representative lowest frankels, the Democrat. I think it's good to be around. Some Republicans. And the quality life here is fantastic. But bottom of my I love it here. I love Gulf Stream. And I love our friends here.
Just don't like their state laws. That's all. Yeah. Not thrilled, but they're state laws. Even if there's pockets of purple, whatever. I prefer pockets of purple. Actually, Washington. I know lots of Republicans in Washington. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today with election coming down the wire a big weekend. A political headline. Sorry, kids, but his politics this week. Plus our friend of pivot is Daniel Lubatsky, the founder of Kindsnacks and investor in Shark Tank.
He has a new initiative that I've helped him with a little bit that's tackling toxic polarization head on. I actually appeared and agreed with Carl Rove. See, when I'm talking about getting along with the Republicans, that's the last Republican I thought I'd get along with, but we'll talk about that.
Speaking of which toxic former president and a Florida resident, Donald Trump's rally at Madison Square Garden on Sunday was full of racism, sexism and profanity. It included speeches from Melania Trump, which was calm by comparison. Elon Musk who was wearing a hat that used Nazi font. That was nice.
And Trump's childhood friend David Ram, who called vice president Harris the anti Christ speakers at the rally also made insulting comments towards Puerto Ricans Jews and his manics, including calling Puerto Rico pile garbage, which was a comic. I get it, but it wasn't funny. And of course, everything was vetted in his speech. Trump said the US is a quote now an occupied country and again describe Democrats as the enemy from within, which JDM spent a lot of time pretending he didn't say.
What do you think about that rally? I mean, I know why he did it because he loves attention and he wants to dunk on people, but that was felt like that 1939 Nazi rally that was at the Madison Square Garden. It was very strange.
Well, I thought actually the energy, I to the Republicans credit, I thought them turning out that many people and sort of what is arguably the bluest of blue in Manhattan was a good move. I was shocked how much energy there was how many Trump supporters there are in Manhattan. And I realized you can take a train.
Not from Manhattan. Come on. Well, they were in Manhattan. But I look, I thought it was generally speaking, the turnout was positive. I think that and I might be over estimating it, but I think we might have our October surprise that helps the Democrats. And that is, I think it's named Tony Hitchcliffe, the comedian. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a broad term. He's one of those people that moved to Austin to be around Joe Rogan, one of those hangar on the street.
I generally believe that comedians deserve a really wide berth. And art is what was it? Anymore Hall said art is getting away with it. I like it when comedians are irreverent, even inappropriate. In the context of trying to soften the beach and get us to think and I cut them a really wide berth. I think Dave Chappelle has said some offensive things, but Bill Burr when he talks about he's a pro life guy, but when he talks about he makes
you know, if it did because a pie is half baked doesn't make it a pie. I think these are, I think comedians actually play a really important role. Michelle Wolf who offended a lot of people. Can I finish? Yeah. Thank you.
Michelle Wolf makes what a lot of people think is offensive comments. I think we cut her a wide berth. This guy his joke about Puerto Rico being a big pile of trash in the ocean and not only didn't land. It was just so incredibly tactically stupid at this point in time because in Pennsylvania, there are 400,000 Puerto Ricans.
And if just five or 10,000 of them get motivated not even to switch the vote, but to vote for Harris and actually kind of souls to the polls, feed to the street, that could swing the entire election. And I thought what he said was so it just landed so poorly and it was so really offensive. There was nothing funny about it was just sort of feeding into the zeitgeist that Trump is just deep down is DNA as a racist and he's not your guy unless you're.
You know from northern Europe, it is exactly and I don't know if you saw this but immediately post the rally every Republican who's running for something distance themselves from the comments well, you know, I I'm agreeing with you on look it landed in the room of energetic people it didn't even land in the room. And I think the crowd did like it in any case it wasn't funny. I don't mind a reverent comics if they're funny. This wasn't funny and also it was vetted by the Trump people.
And it didn't just do it off the time it was in a teleprompter they knew what was coming so they knew what he was saying they could have easily said look Joe or whatever is Tony whatever is unfunny name is they could have said you know what dial it back on the right. It just was he totally wanted to do it so he could get liberals going oh my God, you believe that that that's that's their favorite juvenile tactic in order to get people mad but it was just pathetic.
Actually, since that was the and they didn't just end with that it was was like range of things about Jews about none of which were funny like I get it I get the idea that comics should be funny and you they should be able to say things even David Chappelle and I think he goes on and on about trans people in a way that's not funny but ultimately it's initially it's funny and that it's not because he over does it by by an hour at least but that's his business even wants to do that.
In this case the time it's time and place right they did not have to have this guy there and he wasn't funny and he's you there and sure he's a comic but it's a that's a broad term for this fellow but it wasn't just him it was his friend it was calling Hillary Clinton a bitch or something like that it just went on and Tucker Carlson is so strange I don't even know what to say Elon wearing you know not see font on his hat like they were just all trying to like get the lips go and which is their favorite thing.
And they're tasteless and horrible people I don't know I'm sorry I just you could attract all kinds of people to I've been a medicine square garden with conservative groups when there's sports events where there's wrestling it's like it that whole area attracts lots of different people so I'm not surprised you got people there it's only 19,000 people by the way that fit in.
Anyway I think it does turn off undecided voters and it's just typical of what we're going to get if he wins this is going to be a non stop hate fest and let's tell stupid jokes about women's boobs for four years or when black people and what black people and watermelons are we back to that that joke black people and watermelons.
So funny just tactically speaking as we go into the last eight days I'm focused on how she you know what happens here like who actually wins and the the racist the dog whistles the weirdness the awkwardness the inappropriate I feel like the market is already absorbed that I'm speaking very tactically there are 400,000 Puerto Ricans in Pennsylvania if 5,000 of them decide to get off the couch who are going to support Harris.
But maybe might not have made it to the polls see that and everyone's seeing that clip get motivated to turn out it could literally decide who's president. Yeah I agree on a bad joke. I think it's our I think it's our October surprise I think that I think you're going to hear that guy Tony Hinchcliffe's name a lot more I think that was the October surprise because there's 400,000 Puerto Ricans in Pennsylvania.
Also bad bunny 45 million followers J. Lo like I can't and they're all going to you're going to see so much shit on Tiktok. Yeah they it was interesting Mike Madrid who writes about Latin he wrote a great book on Latin the Tina voters said that it's just going crazy it's sort of suddenly what has been like I don't know why people don't get this this guy is a full on racist Donald Trump is anyway I'm sure he thought it was funny.
I talked to read Hoffman on on with carousel shirt about what Trump supporters think this was before the rally let's hear what he had to say. One of the things I've heard from some of the people who are supporting Trump is like oh yeah he's talking about tariffs but he won't do that he's just talking about that as part of doing that and that's the classic like what Hindenburg said about Hitler.
That's correct which is like oh no this is just a little populist he's not going to do anything it's like no no generally speaking you should take someone seriously so that's that's the good side the bad side is.
You know grifter crony capitalism is I'm buying something for myself right and he is the greatest coin op present in history anyway it was an interesting interview with him you know one thing to struck me at that interview he's a little scared if Trump wins because he's been so he's back to Eugene Carroll he's done all kinds of things he actually said. I'm a little nervous for myself in in the case of Trump win yeah I had an interesting conversation with him fairly well known.
New Zanker like one of the most iconic news anchors and he was asking me about living in London and I said oh that's great for quality life we're actually we're we're a bit worried of Trump once. And I thought you're really worried you really think that he would come after you and he said I don't know but we'd rather just not have that risk. Yeah so it's not whereas it's not a lot of ball the winner whoever threatening to leave it's people saying I'm actually worried I'm I think that.
My me and my family could be on the wrong end of a justice department or an FBI weaponized by someone who's vindictive. I hope that's not I should I don't know every time I think I every time I say don't be worried again to being wrong so.
Well speaking of acquiescence the Washington Post and Los Angeles times are facing a backlash to decide not to endorse a presidential cannon let me just say you don't have to do that but they were it was week 10 days for the election when they made this decision.
The post publisher William Lewis who I think is one of the most anxious totes around announced the decision saying it was quote consistent with the values the post has always stood for which is not true well you just got here you fucker anyway but the editorial board reporter the artist.
All see this morning you're taking no prisoners I'm sick of this zero fucks given to on a Monday morning to care swisher I'm taking no prisoners because this guy's bullshit this guy is such a toti from Rupert Murdoch to Jeff Bezos but the editorial board reporter the already had a Harris endorsement drafted and approved which the post owner Jeff Bezos reported decided not to post multiple columnists of resign from the post in response to the decision.
The Los Angeles Times also had a horse endorsement piece from its editorial board ready to go was blocked by the papers publisher the last minute Patrick as soon as you're several members the editorial board resigned after the decision there's also a problem between him. And his daughter daughter says it's over Gaza he's like my daughter seems crazy that's not that reason I've interviewed Patrick I find it be very intelligent about medical things otherwise he's somewhat of a bonehead.
So what do you think about these decisions they they will do is keeps lying over and over again saying he didn't read the endorsement doesn't matter if he read it will you think we're stupid tell me what what you think of these and again I don't think you should necessarily endure to president or candidate something you should change your mind 10 days before.
And election when your own editorial board which is supposed to be independent which obviously isn't has already drafted something if you look at the fact that I'm opposed they had an endorsement the last time they didn't endorse someone I think was bush versus to caucus. So for the last whatever it is 40 or 50 years they've endorsed somebody.
People inside the paper said endorsements lined up in the frightening part of this is that supposedly someone at Amazon or a division of Amazon that was someone from the Trump campaign to talk about government contracts and that there was pressure applied not to do an endorsement and when you don't do an endorsement the Washington Post let's be honest doesn't do an endorsement it's an implicit endorsement for Trump.
And what Sam Harris said that sort of change my life but informed it you said if you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally you have an obligation to speak your mind because we live in a society where everyone starts buying into a narrative and feels pressure to bark up the same tree if you will.
And this is the problem and the benefit of a society and autocracy respectively and that is if you're not a crack look at the incentives in the math if I were to vigorously endorse Trump I don't believe that Harris would come after me or my business because she adheres to the Constitution and doesn't believe in persecuting her political enemies or weaponizing the government to go after political enemies.
That's not true with Donald Trump he has said that I'm going to pursue Google or that this individual should be locked up so the algebra is the following the incentive is for all of these people who can't stand Trump to occasionally throw them a bone and seem less against him.
There's very little downside to supporting Trump publicly as a business person and there's more downside to supporting Harris because if you don't support Harris she's not going to come after you if you don't support Trump he might come after you and this is an example of that.
And that is you have and this is what's so upsetting about it is you have a guy who should be less afraid than anyone in a capitalist society that affords a lot of power to people and the fact that he appears to be bowing to pressure from an individual who exerts autocratic tendencies is just incredibly disappointing I think arguably this is the worst hit to bezos is brand in a long long time he looks terrible here.
You know I think the problem is it's also the people at the post at the top didn't push back the editorial board or or will Lewis and one of his quotes just drove I'm sorry I'm mad at this guy but he's such a totally the decision to end presidential endorse was made entirely internally and neither campaign nor candidate was given a heads up or consulted in any way at any level any reporting to the contrary is simply incorrect will you anxiously disingenuous you don't have to give them a heads up or coordinate.
It's a mandatious distraction and you it's just what does that have to do you don't have to talk to the campaign he knew he's in trouble with space stuff Trump met with the blue origin people that day what a bad look. You know is all this a coincidence maybe but it certainly looks bad and so that that bezos has said nothing I mean I'll tell you why I'm so spicy I worked for Ben Bradley and Catherine Graham and Don Graham and they were in had integrity they had a lot of people.
They had guts they had balls you tweeted that balls picture who was balls and no balls they had the integrity that you know she she especially that was really under pressure from on lots of broadcast licenses and everything else from the Nixon administration and what did she do she gave the double finger and said do what you will go ahead go ahead and she actually when they were serving
the Sabinas she left the Washington Post Newsroom and went to her house so only she would be jailed can I just say that like what a set this lady had and I loved her I loved dealing with her she was and to have these clowns running the post is so I want to buy the newspaper
Scott weren't you and I'm so funny said that I had the same thought I thought let's get together some people with much deeper pockets in us and offer to buy it from him but don't be performative about it because my guess is he's out with this shit all of these billionaires that buy the stuff regret it they all regret it yeah they're all like well
tech billionaires they don't know how to you know there's rich people running things they don't have they all have tiny little balls tiny little balls that they so that's what you have so that's the little details that it's a hormone replacement therapy whatever you do and it's time they get smaller right is that right oh I'm sorry I don't know I can't find mine so I can't I don't know if they're
I can't you have enormous balls compared to Jeff Bezos but again it's a low bar by the way who who publicly released their endorsement this week that's right I thought you're going to say who publicly took pictures of our balls this week but God you did go ahead say your endorsement who did you endorse let me guess
Trump I put out on my numbers and amounts of endorsement of Harris and be honest let's go other than trying to be a good American and speaking your mind there's no upside because the people who listen to you know you endorse Harris and the people you know basically every comment was I agree or stand your lane I'm unsubscribing and this is the problem again I believe
I believe respect you yeah no one's denying you're right to do it and I also think see most CEOs of most companies should probably stay out of this I don't think that's why I think they're they're to create shareholder value when you are the owner of a paper that is the paper in Washington and probably the premier brand in US politics of course you should
have an endorsement I mean of course you should and then when they have one lined up and the owner weighs in the kind of hands off or mostly hands off on the last minute that is bowing to and if this guy is bowing to pressure then who won't it it's like boss you have to be you
have to be our hero here you have to be the last person to bow to pressure here and so this is I don't think it's too laid I think he could have fixed this I think he could have said look it got very noisy my brain and I thought it would be easier just not to
this was a mistake I have listened I've asked the editorial of you to can reconvene be thoughtful and issue an endorsement he could fix this it's not too late he wants them space contracts of Trump wins and and Harris won't do anything bad to him if she if she wins interestingly the person who might have some trouble is Elon Musk reported been in regular contact with the Russian president Vladimir Putin since 2022 as a reminder space
X played a significant role in the Russia Ukraine war with Starlink Friday Internet access to Ukraine and thwarting Ukrainian drone attack on Russia in 2022 at one point Putin reportedly asked must to avoid activating star link over Taiwan as a favorite Chinese leader Xi Jinping musk is one of the former presidents biggest donors as
you noted he may be up for some sort of weird cabinet position because something of efficiency repercussions what do you this thing is nuts and he apparently didn't talk to the White House when he was doing this I think it's a failure on behalf of our government in a lack of trust and institutions when you have individuals who are this powerful and technology is beginning in kind of these
national individuals there is absolutely no reason that a world leader should feel impetus to call a business leader because they have that much power this needs to be run through the defense department and in no uncertain terms our department of defense our secretary of state our joint chiefs need to crisply move against anybody who decides to insert themselves or put some in a position
that's not dead I think he's going to he's the lealons going to try to roll over him he did he said this is this is a problem this is this is an enormous problem and this is it all stems back from and I'm going to sound like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren when you do it in his voice when people well I'd be I probably have an easier time doing an
I'm not going to be a bad guy when people are mass this kind of wealth in a capitalist society in this kind of power and technology has the ability to be kind of spun up or spun down this quickly and technology kind of is borderless as it is a satellite technology you have you have business people who might be addicted to a disassociative drug cosplaying world leaders.
And they're not elected that's just not a good idea knows what he's saying to them I hope they spied on him I guess don't they spy on people when they talked to Putin supposedly Putin and she but Putin more aggressively begins building a file of embarrassing facts about anyone who's rising
and power and then they remind them of that when they're talking to them including Trump right so anyways but this is I think crisply American institutions that we we elect and we fund massively and we trust even if you
post some you trusted department of defense and the joint chiefs of staff and needed to make these kinds of decisions I don't want Elon Musk negotiating battlefield communications technology directly with Putin CEO's talk to world leaders but our government is dialed into it this is ridiculous this is
friggin this is nuts and he's going to continue when a Trump administration by the way president Biden called musk out for his hypocrisy on immigration after Washington Post was a great story the reporters of Washington post can I say you are doing a wonderful job
fuck your owner but you're doing a wonderful job reported that he worked illegally in the country on a student visa let's listen about wealthiest man in the world turned out to be a legal worker here what he was doing I'm serious he was supposed to be in school he came to student visa he went to school he was violating the law he's talking about all these articles come on our way
yes the irony he was an illegal he has talked about it I've heard him talk about yeah it is it's a bit of a side show but it goes back to I think the primary reason we haven't been serious about immigration reform and to be clear we need borders immigration has gotten especially that although illegal border crossings are actually down this year but what people don't want to acknowledge is the reason we haven't fixed haven't fixed this is we haven't wanted to fix it until recently
because the most profit immigration is the secret sauce of America but what people don't talk about is the most profitable part of immigration is illegal immigration and that is specifically illegals basically show up they don't get arrested they commit crimes at a lower rate they don't call services they don't tax our services they don't even like to go to the hospital they don't call the cops they don't call the fire department because they're worried about being sent home
and they're this flexible inexpensive workforce oh and by the way they pay taxes and then they tend to leave once the crops are picked or there's a lack of demand or a lack of supply of jobs it's sort of the ultimate flexible highest ROI labor force in history and this is I don't want to excuse what he's doing but we should have immigration laws that allow a guy like Elon Musk to stay more easily I would like to see anyone anyone who shows that kind of IQ
risk taking even even back then he demonstrated this we should accommodate if you know anybody when I first started L2 the most talented and I talked a little bit about this one of the most talented people I've ever run across this woman and clothe to jokas took me into the comments from said I need to speak to you she'd gone to Yale she was a gymnast Canadian she said I have to leave I couldn't get my visa in time and I have to leave and I have to go back to Canada
and I you're doing those such thing I have money I'm going to hire lawyers and we're going to figure this out and unfortunately if you have money usually can figure this stuff out but the fact that our I and S or whoever it is is kicking the most talented people out of the country
and at the same time turning a blind eye to the most profitable part it's just all it's all fucked up but yeah this is going back to the beginning it is incredibly hypocritical although I don't think he's been that aggressive against illegal immigrants has he been?
yes he's like half the negative stuff on Twitter that's inaccurate is from his tweets about immigrants yes oh no he's like like demanded he's just like he's just like dialing it up everywhere he goes on immigrants that's been as big as focus lately he got off the transfer a minute and then now he's on immigrants and I don't know what whatever he's a tires some skull you said something earlier in the podcast I didn't realize I just been
blissfully ignorant over the past over the Florida he had you think that the the font on his hat was purposely reminiscent of Nazi propaganda it's a it's a font it's not it's a Nazi font on that look like it look like the Nazi font to me anyway you know I always think of this the thing that
really got me I'll tell you was that they did this Madison Square Garden thing just miles from Statue of Liberty right where on the sceptual Liberty there's a poem which is called the new Colossus right it's a son by Emma Lazarus right she wrote the poem in 1883 to raise money for
construction of it and the last part keep your ancient lands your storied palm Christy with silent lips give me your tired your poor your your huddled masses yearning to breathe free this is the part I think is important the wretched refuse of your teaming sure
send these the homeless tempest toss to me I lift my lamp besides the golden door I mean honestly what is my grandfather came in on that on a ship he was a wretched refuse he was nobody then he made a company he raised children you know it's just it's so depressing it's so
depressing to watch these people thank you that's my poetry that's why I'm really bothered by this it's just grotesque I think and they're so they're so lucky these people who are doing this they're so rich they're so they've got everything and they still can't be generous it's astonishing and they're so hateful okay Scott let's go on a quick break we come back we'll talk about Michelle Obama making her amazing case to mail voters and we'll speak with a friend of pivot Daniel
Lebitsky about his efforts to hold politicians accountable for their words and actions support for the show comes from zip recruiter there are a lot of different types of companies but no matter the workplace one things for certain choosing the right candidate is a huge responsibility I remember the first time I stepped into the office for my first job I was feeling excited to be there and then by the end of the day incredibly depressed that was what my life was
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The critically acclaimed series, The Diplomat, returns for his second season starring Carrie Russell. A deadly explosion in the heart of London Shatters US Ambassador Kate Wilers World, as she struggles to rebuild the lives that broke and help her team that's been split apart, Kate's worst fears unfold. The attack may have come from inside the British government. Watch The Diplomat, October 31st, only on Netflix.
And after you binge the series, listen to The Diplomat, the official podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Scott were back with more political news. Michelle Obama made a powerful plea to voters over the weekend at a rally in Michigan. Her first appearance on the trail this year. She's such a good speaker. Obama warned about the risk that Donald Trump poses to women's health and told women they should demand to be treated as more than baby making vessels.
She also took a page out of Scott Galloway playbook and directed her argument towards men. I think she must be listening to Scott. Let's listen. But to anyone out there thinking about sitting out this election or voting for Donald Trump or a third party candidate in protest because you're fed up, let me warn you, your rage does not exist in a vacuum. If we don't get this election right, your wife, your daughter, your mother, we as women will become collateral damage to your rage.
Scott, you could have written that. What do you think of the case? I thought it was arguably the most powerful speech given in 2024. I would agree. Both of them. Because as someone who's thinking a lot about masculinity and I'm writing a book on it, trying to figure out an aspirational modern form of a given, the world has just changed. I come to these three legs of the stool, a provider protector and progreater and protector she just called on.
I don't know if you're quoting the speech I thought was just outstanding. If your wife is shivering and bleeding on the operating room table during a routine delivery gone bad, her pressure dropping as she loses more and more blood or some unforeseen infection spreads in her doctors aren't sure if they can act. You will be the one praying that it's not too late. You will be the one pleading for somebody, anybody to do something.
Then she goes on to say, if we don't get this election right, your wife, your daughter, your mother, we as women will become collateral damage to your rage. This is really trying to call on what men should have as a default operating system as men and that is to move to protection. She called on that. She said, look, guys, it's time for you to step up and protect us. We are under threat.
Going very base, the reason women choose mates in large part is based on who they believe if they are vulnerable, especially during a time of pregnancy or when the kids are young, that you have the skills, the intellect, the kindness, the strength, the courage to protect them. That is primarily the key reason why women find certain men more attractive than others.
Men, if they want to express their masculinity, if they want to be true men, their default has to be to protection and there is no one who is who we are set up to protect or have more of an obligation to protect than the mothers, the spouses and the daughters in our life. I thought she just tapped into that perfectly. I thought it was so powerful. It wasn't Tisky, it's like, let me tell you, boys, she is such a gifted political speaker.
Her democratic having been there when she did it and also then watching it later, what a political talent. I know she doesn't want to run, but I'm like, she articulates things. I know she's a lawyer, she's going to be good at talking, but she trained as a lawyer, but man, she's an astonishing person. Anyway, let's change the subject. Let's talk some entertainment news, California governor Gavin Newsom wants to get Hollywood back on track with massive increase in the state's film tax incentives.
We touched on this last week about the number of productions declining in the California area. Obviously, it's been, that's been happening for a while and it was always completely there and then they moved around to other countries, etc. But Newsom announced a proposal on Sunday to boost the state's tax credits from $330 million to $750 million. Still not that much increase could take effect as early as July 2025 if approved by the state legislature.
Overall production in the LA area was down 5% in Q3, the weakest quarter of the year below 23 strike levels. California's lost production dollars to other states that offer attractive incentives. Georgia, as you know, is among the New York also, as well as countries, including Canada and Croatia. Croatia, apparently, looks like a lot of places.
You know, it's a lot cheaper to send people all over the place and Georgia's made a really aggressive and has a lot of production happening there, which is a good thing for a state to do to bring things in and away from California. So what do you think about this? I think it's not very much money, but it's more money. What do you think? This is a good move. In general, I learned like subsidies because it ends up being a race to the bottom.
Incorporations do this and when everyone wants to be the Pepsi generation and keeps doing shit at Amazon and they lie and say that Columbus, Ohio or Phoenix actually have a shot when it ends up just being whoever's closest to his man caves, right? DC and New York. At some point, we do need actual tax revenue from corporations. The biggest ones have been very good at playing states off against each other.
So as a whole, there's something about this subsidies that bothers me because eventually what you have is corporations who now have the lowest tax burden they've had since 1938. I don't know how to solve it. Competition interest rate is actually good on a lot of ways. In this specific instance, given the atmosphere, given what's happening to LA, this is an easy one. It's a great idea to explain what they are for people who don't understand what they do.
Because this race to the bottom idea is important because people want like Texas wants to cut taxes to bring people there, etc. And it's often is can be a race to the bottom. Explain why they're good.
Well, if you're producing a movie, if you produce it, what they're basically saying is if you know, Canada has a big tax subsidy, they say if you produce your film here because of the jobs, whether it's catering or makeup artists or editors or the people who rent the vans and the trucks and the cameras, it'll inspire enough economic activity to what we'll do is we'll give you a credit.
If you spent $30 million on a film, we'll give you when you qualify and you've the majority of the filming and post production, whatever's done here, we'll give you a $3 million credit. And that may not sound like a lot, but if you can reduce your exposure by 10, 15 or 20%, it dictates where you're going to film. And Atlanta has been very aggressive about this. Vancouver. Vancouver Canada has been very aggressive. In the US or California had a smaller, kind of underfunded credit.
And basically what he's done is he's super sized it. And the analysis is really powerful that basically justifies why you would do this. For every tax credit dollar allocated, California benefited from at least $24 in economic output, $16 in gross domestic product, $860 in wages and $1.07 in state and local tax revenues. So this is actually from a tax standpoint, it's tax neutral while inspiring a lot of economic activity. And especially in LA where they have the stuff.
Yeah, it's a really good idea to strategically because the quality of talent in LA is just superior to any region in the world around this stuff. People dream when really talented creatives or people want to be in the movie business when they come out of the star of the drama club or their good at building sets and they come out of high school or college, if this is their dream, they get on a bus or a plane for LA. So it's such a big part of LA's identity.
And if you can offer, you don't even have to be less just as long as you're competitive. A lot of people are going to choose to shoot in LA because the talent pool is so deep. So this is given the reality that there are other states and countries offering tax credits. And the fact that production by some estimates is down something like 30 or 40% in LA. This was absolutely the right move at the right time. Yeah. And they have all that studios.
I did you and I both done productions there and they're just so superb. The people that work there, whether you're on something like Bill Mar or I was recently on a TV show, it's just so good. They're so good from even down to like the craft table. The upper side. And I have done it in other places. It's not the same as Los Angeles. It just is in our California. So they should they should own it. They should keep it.
But although I have to say, you know, the L word was done up in Vancouver and I used to visit my friends up there who are doing the L word. And it was they also had a really tight day. I think Jennifer Beals lived there. Maybe she still does. It was really a great place to film and a great place to live for a lot of those people. So there's tons of TV shows in Vancouver and Atlanta. So anyway, good for grabbing news in any case. Let's bring in our friend of pivot.
Daniel Lbezki is the founder of Kind Snacks and the newest permanent investor on Shark Tank. He's also the founder of the Builders Movement, a nonprofit initiative aiming at tackling polarization worldwide. Welcome, Daniel. Thank you, Cara. Thank you, Scott. It's so nice to see you both. You're just here. Right. So I just want to say I just for disclosure, I was on one of his first calls and I at me in Carl Roeva person I never thought I wanted to talk to ever.
I had a really interesting discussion, which was surprising for me. Anyway, we'll talk about in a minute. But for people who might not know you only from Kind Snacks and Shark Tank, can explain what the Builders Movement is and what it actually does? The Builders Movement recognizes that 80% of Americans are fed up with all these hyperpartisan tribal division. And we want to transform this OS versus the mentality with a problem solving mindset and toolkit.
And we have analyzed over the last 10 years, the five or six forces that are contributing to toxic polarization and to try to counteract them. An education, civics and the media with our own mouse drops that are in the process of being built, including the Builders Power Rankings that you. Just participate in and we're grateful that you are granted to go on with Carl Roeva and Andrew Young.
So you've sort of gamified this recently by launching these Power Rankings, which I said I participated in, talk about how the rankings work and hold politicians' account. So our insight is that all of us are really, really exhausted with just being used by scandal and politicians to raise money and to divide rather than solve problems.
And so instead of voting just purely based on whether somebody has a deer or an hour or we're trying to get people to study, are they actually Builders or dividers? Are they helping unite and bring light and solve problems together? They're dividing the mullishing and destroying.
And we used, we partnered with a polarization research lab to use AI to scour all resources on the internet and elsewhere every week to try to see whether people are actually introducing bipartisan legislation, whether actually speaking on the issue substantively or whether they're just trying to set up fires to destroy one another and criticize one another.
And to be transparent, it's not perfectly designed because sometimes people are appearing at least from my perspective a little bit poorer because they were tough, but maybe they were being tough responding to somebody that had attacked them and that they're too. Right, because they're persistent and pernicious haters. But the goal right now we launched within three, four months, a minimum viable product, lowercase MVP. Right.
We hope that over the coming years it'll become the most viable player and it'll become the source for people to go to builders power rankings for them to understand whether somebody is being a builder and they get a, from, from AI they get a score, a blended score based on whether they're introducing bipartisan legislation solving problems, being constructive or whether they're dividing.
And then at least for these rounds every week we're bringing panelists across the spectrum of politics to criticize the rankings and to have a nuanced conversation. And we've had over a quarter million people that in the last two, three weeks have joined and learned a little bit more and we hope to do a better job of getting people to see through those issues. Okay, Scott. Yeah, it's always good to see Daniel.
So I'm wondering so similar to how there are rankings from democratic and Republican institutions, kind of giving them a score and different special interest groups whether it's the NRA or plan parenthood, they put out ratings or rankings. This seems like it's another rating that's basically going to say how bipartisan or how moderate you are. Is that accurate?
That's literally the aspiration is for people to replace those hyperpartisan scoring things with all inclusive builders ranking and character decides appropriately when she was on the panel that we didn't have one for independence today. We rank Republicans and Democrats and for both the five top builders and the five bottom dividers and it's a very hyper nonpartisan by structure. We cannot make it partisan because we're criticizing dividers and praising builders for both parties.
As an aspiration, we hope to also do that for independence and to try to introduce more and more independence. One of the biggest problems with our system is that the systems are ranked against independence against its four in comments like one of the problems we have is only 13% support congress and there's 13% support congress but 90% of congress members get reelected and it's because
of gerrymandering and all these systems that both their Republicans and the Democrats creating the system to try to divide these spoils and staying power and this is why people are so dissatisfied because we keep seeing that the choices that we're in present that are
really, really in fear as a result of the dual belief that creates so much stagnation and we hope to introduce a system where we're going to hold accountable and not just say, oh, just because I'm a Republican or a Democrat, I'm going to blindly vote for my know. Have they been builders? Have they been actually solving problems for my community?
Are they actually addressing what we not need or they're just right now we have a big incentive for like Cara said for the Marjit Taylor-Brain Sorrio season of the world to be I'm sorry Daniel, you cannot put them in the same I'm sorry, you can't you simply cannot have a how about Rashida live and Marjit Taylor green?
Nobody is like Marjit Taylor green Daniel see this was my problem with this whole thing is there are certain people who are pernicious haters that are gaming everybody else but go ahead Cara, what's interesting to me from the last 10 years of doing this work is that I have the identical conversations with both sides and when I say this is a panel come on nobody's as bad as this quite like you know what?
It's interesting also is when you talk to the media and you say guys you really only covering the dividers and you're not covering the builders and they're like no we're doing our job we're doing our job that's not true they're not doing their job because guess who covers
Marjit Taylor green the New York Times guess who covers the squad Wall Street Journal guess how much coverage of the Wall Street Journal or Fox News give to Marjit Taylor green zero she is not in the media on the right wing the right wing does not pass the journal
certainly barely barely if you look we did a study last year called change the coverage and he was fascinating the media that leans democrat covers all the crazy from the right wing the media that Lenny's right covers all the ones on the left I don't really understand that
my mother didn't know about Arnold Palmer when I said about the Arnold Palmer comment about Trump because you watch this Fox News she's like what what did he say oh no it was fascinating I'm like it barely has a big shlong but let's go but you've called yourself a moderate we're do
moderates fit into the initiative especially the current political moment I think I think we can all agree last night was really a terrible situation and for people who don't know you're you're the son of Sonia and Roman Lubetsky and they're a hollipop call survivor and a Lithuanian Ashkenazi
Jew you also grew up in Mexico City correct is that correct and you moved as a teenager my father was born in Gregalatvia and survived the Holocaust was liberated by American soldiers when he was after being in a hospital as a refugee for a year he then immigrated to Mexico where he met my mom my mom was born in a small town in Mexico her parents had immigrated a generation before also for mr. Neuro and I immigrated to the United States when I was 16.
Matinager so you're aware of all these I mean you've lived all these issues and everything else so talk about you being a moderate right now and how how how you are trying to get to the center in some fashion makes it very difficult I think I'm misunderstanding of people is that they think
that uh moderates have to belong to you can be a democrat or a republican or an independent being a moderate for us we we stop using the word moderate because it carries certain accommodations that are not what we're doing so we started to use the language of builders
but for us a builder a person that uses compassion creativity curiosity and courage they're the forces of a builder's mindset and they apply not just in civil society they apply when we're building kind the company when you're building any bridges any jobs any social enterprise if you
have curiosity you don't assume that you have all the answers you have a little bit of humility to listen to the other side you have compassion to understand what the other side is coming from or over critical listener and a critical uh thinker and then you have the courage to work across
lines of difference and you have the creativity to think outside the box and come up with solutions so those are the things we're trying to instill in society through education by replacing all these rigid ideologies that come from the extremes with actual tools for helping young students
and all of us replace this increasing rigidity from social media and other things with with a little bit of our better ability to think through these issues so Daniel in order to have a ranking that impacts people and says assuming you're looking for kind of bridge builders or moderates you have to
have candidates that are at least somewhat viable as moderates and I I think it's a real challenge now because of gerrymandering and essentially there are no general elections anymore it's all about the primary because of the way districts have been gerrymandered and because the way the algorithms love polarized divisive rhetoric it does any of this matter if we don't get to like final five or ranked choice voting because I'm worried that your rating will be just bad for everybody who we have
ends up in the in the in the general if you will I think uh you're correct that the incentives matter and people this politicians are they don't need to be leaders they don't need to be followers and they respond to those incentives uh and I do think you're right that we need to have structural
changes to reduce gerrymandering and increase participation in primaries and all the things you mentioned and there are a lot of builders there really are which is don't hear about them because the media doesn't do a good job portraying them and part of our job is to try to elevate them so
Senator John also from a democrat from Georgia appeared twice as a builder represented Loret Chavez-Deremer a republic up from Oregon appeared twice as a builder and these are people that are in battleground districts or states that have the strength to be builders and it tends to
be like you would assume Scott that the most divisive voices come from districts that have been soldier-mandered that the general election doesn't matter that it just they just try to throw red meat that they're at their primary voters so our representative lands good and a republican of
Texas was a divider towards three rounds uh represent their Eric Swalwell a democrat of California represented Mary Miller a republican of Illinois they kept coming up as people that were just engaged in personal attacks rather than constructive solutions one I think Scott's kind
of a more I think so himself moderate right Scott yeah yeah I do right yeah so um there's a you know there's a famous poem of Yates with the center will not hold right um and now we have the noise the noise you know the noisy among us are the ones that are getting the most attention it's a famous
poem obviously um but are you concerned that polarization is going to get worse after the election and which candidate would it be worse given their records I am absolutely terrified about our direction of our country either way I am frankly nothing short of terrified you know
Karen Scott I I know you from the work I used to do in the Middle East for 25 years to build bridges between Israel's and Palestinians and my assumption when I immigrated to United States and I grew up and I went to law school I did my work was that the way I was going to contribute was
by bringing American values abroad and by trying to have respect rule of law kindness civility uh democracy be the values that we bring to others and I I worked for close to 30 years already helping Israelis and Palestinians Jordania's Egyptianster trained with one another build a
movement uh to empower moderates and if I have to score myself obviously I would fail it's been uh a disaster not only in the Middle East but now all of these uh tribalization and division and and divisiveness is being explored across the world and foreign adversaries that are authoritarian
rulers uh whether it's in Russia China Iran North Korea are all vanguard but um but we really really need to take this very seriously and I and I think that the only way we're going to change is going back to what Scott was saying about structural changes and about demanding from both
did you know this is a duopoly the democratic and republican parties are both broken think about what we have today you have a presidential candidate from the right where 40 out of 44 of his self-selected cabinet members said do not vote for this guy and he you know prevent
not just saying do not vote they're saying he's a fascist and they saw and he sought to prevent the orderly transition of power and leading up to January 6th like I cannot support him but in spite of that it's like he should be easily defeated you have a election that's going to be so
so tight so you have to question and understand that there's problems on the left too because if the democrats are not able to feel the candidate that can easily defeat a person with a tracker card the system is completely broken and I can walk through four people like like autocrats
Daniel I don't think so I don't think so I think that's too simplistic I don't agree with you I think they love them in certain places they seem to like a big daddy I guess before you go let me ask you quickly about shark tank the New York Times recently at a story that looked about how
the show evolved over the years and proclaimed want to understand the US economy watch shark tank tell me why you're you're doing this what is it reveal about the economy and entrepreneurship and I like some of the panelists others I think there's a box of hammers but I think you're smart so tell
me why you're on it first of all every one of the Kevin O'Leary but go ahead Kevin O'Leary is ridiculous much like they they process their witty and they process really fast and they all keep me on my toes part of the reason I'm on it Daniel Daniel you're a much better entrepreneur
than Kevin O'Leary but go ahead go ahead you're very good part of the reason I'm theirs because it's really intellectual stimulating and challenging like Mark Cuban notices things two or three rounds before I do like he asked a question I'm like where is he going oh my god he was right I
learned so much from him but the most important thing is the entrepreneurs that they come in and by the way he takes a lot of guts to shock and that and that carpet and then they tell you these incredible stories and providing incredible stories and honestly entrepreneurship is one of the
last hopes for our nation and for the world it's it's where you're building bridges where you're thinking like a builder when you're taking the risk to actually do something constructive to build something good for society and it's probably a biggest secret weapon as a country and we need to support it and elevate it and that's why we're doing that. Give us some behind the music here what what is the most surprising thing you found out about Shark Tank and don't have it be how smart they
are your other sharks give us some gossip. It's for me Scott when I first did the first season Mark told me get over it because everything resets and I didn't quite understand it but what happens is you re this is your money and this is and you don't know enough you have to develop very
quick plan recognition and then you decided you want to go for a deal and then somebody throws you under the bus and you are authentically pissed off and you're like apps really upset and then there's a break and by the next round with the next because we're filming too hot so you film eight or ten episodes in one day and after 15 to an hour break you reset and these guys are like they really you really do get into it and then you need to reset and you form your life.
And Daniel's still back in number one like what did you do? Well that was my first season I was like upset for a few seconds and then you have to just reset reset reset and what's the most recent company you've invested in Daniel and Shark Tank? Well we cannot share till they air most recent public one public one that people know about. There's a woman that there's two women
that launched a company called Toastet. They're immigrants also from Venezuela and they make frozen refrigerated Hispanic food that's delicious like adepas, cachapa's like foods that for Hispanics will love them but even you know Americans like them it's kind of like a sandwich bread made of corn that things really really good. What's cool about them is they were she had a baby the same day that her and she's so tired and she was carrying the baby and watching the episode. Yeah that was
a great one. I love that one. I love a repus too. I just want to tell a very brief story about Daniel of how I met him is he owned code.com and I wanted to get it from him because I we ended up with code.net. I was the code.com. The code.com and I wanted it for our new site and he called me back and he said if you could change your conference to a conference about peace I will give it to you and I was like no fucking way Daniel and I never forget that and he's like yeah we need
peace I'm like we don't need peace Daniel I mean give me that thing I'll give you a million no he wanted a conference and even today Daniel I'm not going to do a conference about peace but I appreciate I did show up at your thing and Carl Roevin and I did give you a hard time which was
fun to do together. But your gates challenge is the challenge for society. It really is the question are we going to allow the center to not hold and if we don't every one of your listeners do something to become a builder and to try to solve their communities it's it is going to catch up
with us it's going to get worse if you don't all take it up on the ground. So it's something although that Carl Roevin and I are the center now is really something right anyway thank you so much Daniel and I really thought it was really enjoyable what you're doing and I hope you really get them
any any more help you want about and Scott would be a really good advisor to that anyway thank you so much Daniel the best gate thank you Scott and Cara it's nice to see you both all right Scott isn't he he's a lovely guy I like to give him a hard time then so I met Daniel in 1999 we were
in the same global leaders of tomorrow Deodavos and he was the peace guy he was just running around he had all these weird little businesses bringing Palestinians and Israelis together and he was starting all these ridiculous businesses that made no sense and we're all like but he was so
likable and he had such a big good heart and but I don't want to say wasn't taking seriously but he's almost a guy like pieces the answer piece and we're like Jesus Christ it's the peace guy when he wanted and then the website and then he starts this company called kind he's like
should have in my office I said can you help me start this business and I'm like well not really I don't know much about the confection market anyways fast forward like seven years later he sold it for a billion dollars the peace guy and it literally there are a few people you would be
more happy if they make a billion dollars and Daniel the best get him to help us by the Washington Post he's a really he's like a big hearted lovely guy and the candy bars are delicious and that's what they are I'm sorry to tell you that's candy bar there yeah they're fantastic
I want a week around something like that anyway Scott let's go in a quick break we'll be back for wins and fails support for pivot comes from anthropic if your company could tap into a powerful source of knowledge analysis and create a problem solving imagine what you could achieve
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eight days out distinctive the racist undertones of it. It's just tactically really really stupid to insult a community that comprises 400,000 voters in the ultimate swing state. It's just distinct of the underlying troublesome comments. It was just it was a self-inflicted injury that the Trump campaign did not need at this moment. That's my fail just strategically just could not have been more stupid. Am I when I thought Michelle Obama's comments telling men that they're
essentially they need to protect women. I just love the notion of associating manhood with a default setting around protection. I thought she was very powerful and I hoped that a lot of people specifically men who are sort of on the couch are not thinking that some of the issues facing women right now don't affect them they absolutely do. So I thought she was really powerful.
I think that's probably my favorite speech of 2024. So when it was my my failed this is unforced error on the Republicans part insulting a community that could play a huge part in the in the election and my win is a very forceful former First Lady Michelle Obama. She really is impressive. She really truly is. I would say my fail is the Washington Post editorial
leaders. Let me just be full disclosure my wife works for the op-ed section. She's not involved in any of this and didn't have any idea about any of this but there's two people who've just left the board Molly Roberts a young woman. She's resigned and editorial board member David Hoffman is also resigning just for people who didn't know Hoffman legendary reporter accepted the Pulitzer last week for his series on new technology and the tactics authoritarian regimes used to repress
dissent in the digital age and how they can be fought. That was what he wanted Pulitzer for and it's just resigned from the board. The editorial board of the Washington Post David Erichiro I'm sorry those pieces were wonderful. Molly is a young woman. It's a it's a very male white male board. Others are going to leave they have it's it's largely white male board I'm sorry that's what it is and they pretend they have other people on it that aren't really serving and so just a
real fail from them. I can't say a lot because they're my wife works there. I wish she didn't. I'll be honest with you and so she has lots of other opportunities and to have to work with these people is really something I'm not thrilled about but it's her choice. In any case my win is that there are again when I hear some voters speaking not these terrible people at this Trump Brawley I'm sorry they're and I'll use the Hillary Clinton from some of these people are deplorable they absolutely
are. I had I've been listening to a lot of interviews with independent voters and they're they're so smart they really are I know we make julf on a people who haven't decided etc etc but they are considering really important things for their families and their lives and I get that the choice
seems very stark here and you know I think that they I'm very heartened by listening to them at least because they're being considerate of things and the second win is the New York Times editorial leader Katie Kingsbury who I haven't always gotten along with I have to say I think she's she's a
tough nut but she is posting their Kamala Harris endorsement and the video they made which was really good and they're actually the the editorial was quite good and well argued and stuff like that and she's dunking on them and I just got to say Katie new respect new respect for your and
it was it was a very well written endorsement and I would like to get put an offer out to anyone at the LA Times of the Washington Post who has that endorsement of Kamala Harris please please leak them to anybody any reporter and I my my lines are open if you have it please I'd be happy
to publish it will be happy to read it here on pivot anyway we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot I know there's a lot of politics but it's almost over
that will not really as a problem to keep going and while we're at it the results from last week's threads polar in and response to the question who would make a better Halloween cost in carat or Scott I won by a landslide winning with a whopping two 72% of the vote and actually that really a win
it is this is a really Christian assault to sanderson and Lulu Garcia Navarro on Chris Wallace show dressed up as me they put on glasses they have leather they have my hair and everything else so they also dressed up as I agree I'm the great winner um does this convince you to change your
costume to carousel with sure you but you're so much you're so much more cost I look like a fish that's when I'm too close to a reactor you have big hair and sunglasses yeah you're much better Halloween costume but I need your help I'm what do you do it kind of down to two costumes one of
them is not you I'm either gonna go as Richard Simmons right I thought that was the choice okay but in promise I'm going to a party in a shorty shorty which sucks because it's cold and the women don't dress as slutty so it's not nearly as good it's like a giant tease I'm in my
amy but I can't be here for Halloween anyways that would be perfect for a Miami but go ahead either Richard Simmons but less powerful in London or the break dancer from the Australian break dancing to comment I'm got let's think a little harder yeah I gotta do better yeah I gotta do better I
gotta I can't beat Deadpool I was a huge you can go as Arnold Palmer's penis hmm hmm hmm I have no response for golf clothes interesting shave your beard get real slick yeah you're not good at this I think you should go as anyone has any ideas what I should go as Halloween okay please put
them in to Kara at vox media.com no I was at a Halloween store with the kids this weekend because I have to go every weekend right now and I found one costume I was bought which was a which was a pay phone costume I almost bought it and then I just didn't you were gonna you were gonna go as a
pay phone I am a pay phone get it no one would recognize me see I blend in yeah like what is that well I'll think about it but I think you should go as Arnold Palmer's penis that's my choice okay it's interesting anyway that's the show we'll be back on Friday with more why don't you read us out
today's show is reduced by LearnAmy and Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin earning her Todd engineered this episode thanks so much for the Drew Rose Missive Ariel and Dan Shulon your shot Kerwa is vox media's executive producer of audio make sure you subscribe to
the show wherever you listen podcast thanks for listening to pivot from New York Magazine vox media you can subscribe to the magazine at n1mag.com slash pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care I have a great rest of the week
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