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Get the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash vox netsuite.com slash vox This week on the gray area how are digital devices changing us We've become more machine-like, and I think the exhibit A for that is how young people, for example, talk about their sex lives in machine-like terms.
performative terms in ways that actually have shaped their understanding of what an intimate sexual relationship even should be, what it should look like, what it should feel like. Listen to The Gray Area with me, Sean Elling. New episodes every Monday available everywhere. I wait for the day where you're going to say something to me that I'm going to have to break up with you. I really don't want that to happen.
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and it's inauguration weekend. I'm so excited I'm leaving town. The inauguration, a ton of pornography, a lot of drinking. Peroni, Xanax, 80s music, aerial firefighters. Just hang with me. Someone asked me, they're worried about me because I got so triggered at the election. They said, are you all right about the inauguration? I'm like, well.
My all right. I feel like Vin Rhames after he was ass raped in Pulp Fiction. Yeah. I'm pretty fucking far from all right. And I just. The Democrats, in an attempt to be somewhat civil and like they're back at their Princeton review. I'm done. I'm not going to be elegant or graceful about this. We're not being civil. I refuse to normalize this shit. Yes, I agree. Yeah, let's refuse. I'm with you, Scott Galloway. Someone's like, we have to now get along. I'm like, do we?
Do we? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just like they did. Yes, I agree with you, Scott. I'm on board. Someone told me, you know, you have to get along. I'm like, do I? I don't do that in my regular life. I feel like I'm going to just stick to my consistent state of being irritated. No, I'm going to be more partisan, more pornographic. So for those of you who don't know, and this is the part of the program where we pat ourselves on the back.
Karen and I's relationship ordeal ends with Vox soon, and we're hoping to renew. We love Vox. But we're out there talking to people, and literally every media company in the world. Wants Kara Swisher and is willing to put up with Scott Galloway, sort of the tariff, if you will, for getting Kara Swisher on board. Oh, I like that. And as a means of weeding out, I'm going to just become so fucking...
pornographic and vulgar, and we're going to see who really wants you. Who really wants you. That's true. Who really, really wants you. You know, I do not mind the pornography. You know where I'm going, by the way, away for the weekend? Miami.
Your favorite place. Oh, I can tell you where to go. Stay at the Faena. Go have dinner at Sparrow Italia. You're staying at the Lowe's? Just don't even. I'm not going to explain. Oh, Jesus Christ. I have children with me. I have children. Faena is not a children. hotel. Lowe's is a guy looking to meet a pro at the bar who's with the National Cotton Growers Association. That's who I'm aiming for. That literally, if you wanted to find the one hotel that feels like you're at.
The Days Inn in Detroit or a corporate hotel you found in South Beach. Stay where? If you're looking for kids. All right. I'm serious about this. I need to do an intervention. Stay at the addition. That's a little bit more family friendly. Yeah, I like the addition. Yeah. You know, they have that beanbag throwing thing. And there's enough kids there that the adults can't get too angry. The fighting is a little too adult.
They're two adults. That's, I agree. Okay. All right. I will do that. In any case, I'm excited to go there because the weather's going to be beautiful. And down here in... In Washington, it's going to be like in the teens or lower. Yeah, there's a polar vortex coming in or something, right? Polar vortex, and it's called Donald Trump. Yeah, so they're going to show up here. There's all these places. You know, they're having a party. Uber and X are having a party along with some other.
other people. And I wrote Dara Khosr Shahi. Are you in a competition to be the least deplorable? He laughed. He's like, you should come. I'm like, I would rather poke my out with a dry stick. I got invited to a party, an AI party at the inauguration where they said that.
Musk and Sachs will be there. And I thought, some intern fucked up the guest list. How did I get on this thing? I know. How did you? They kind of like you. They're going to try to draw you away from me. That's what they try to do. Well, you know what they see? They see, I'm like...
I'm like a Jehovah, you know, they knock on the door and I'm a Jehovah's Witness and they like see like, he seemed like a really unhappy and vulnerable. I think we should stop by tomorrow. I think all these guys think there's a chance. They think that I haven't taken the red pill yet, but. They think it's in my medicine cabinet. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
You're a little worried I'm going to lose it. For the day where you're going to say something to me that I'm going to have to break up with you. I really don't want that to happen. But then you come back and you say, I'm going to be pornographic. I'm going to be partisan. And then I love you again.
Anyway, so anyway, we're both not going to be here for the inauguration, but good. You know, it's my favorite part. So they have a lot of the ex-presidents are coming, but Michelle Obama is like, peace the fuck out. She's not coming. And she's not explaining why. That's my two favorite parts. Good for her. I love that she's not explaining why. She's like, I'm not coming. That's all. Because it sounds like the shittiest party that you don't want to go to. Yeah.
I don't know. None of the presidents are going to the lunch. Clinton, Obama, and Bush are not going to the afterward lunch that they're supposed to go to. They all peaced out of that. They're going to the show, but then they're not going to the lunch. I think there is a...
I'm going to try and bring this back to a life lesson. One of my mentors, this guy named Barry Rosenstein from Jana Partners said, one of the really nice things about having economic security, he said, life is three buckets. There's things you want to do, right? You want to hang out with your kids. You want to go to...
I see Cole Palmer play for Chelsea, whatever it is. There's things you want to do. There's things you have to do, right? If Bancroft, the CEO of Ox, is in town and says, I really want to meet with you guys, we kind of have to do that, right? I mean, that's more want and have to do. Not really, but yes, sure.
Well, you know what I'm saying. He's not like that, though. But okay, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, but if, okay, I don't know. There's just things. Your mother-in-law is not doing well and you need to go visit her. You have to do that, right? Anyways. And then there's things you should do. And building your career is about things you should do. You should go to this event because who knows, you might get a client.
You should go to the bat mitzvah of your co-workers, daughter, whatever it might be. He said the thing about economic security is you can eliminate should. He said, now I just do things I have to do or I want to do. And it was really kind of an unlock for me. And the thing that's so disappointing about these guys...
And what is obviously a kleptocracy where one of – I just don't think any of these people want to go. None of them have to. They're all worth $100 billion. I'm going to update you on that, but go ahead. Keep going. They've – They've forgotten what is the point of supposedly being economically secure in a democratic society that supposedly has some rule of law where the DOJ won't be weaponized against you or the FTC. And that is...
None of these people want to be there. I just don't I don't think any of them want to sit out in 15 degree heat and watch. Cold. Yeah. And watch and watch basically all of them, you know, slowly bend the knee. Right.
to the new autocrat. And he's also sitting them next to each other. Remember when I wrote that piece calling them sheeple in 2016, where they all went up to Trump? I don't. That must be the one article I haven't read that you wrote. In any way, I wrote a piece that was, because I broke the news, they were all...
going to Trump Tower, and they did this sheeple dance. And they're doing it even worse this time. So Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos. And let me say, they don't like each other. They'll pretend to, but I don't care what they tell you. They do not have to sit next to each other.
display. I don't know which is what Trump is doing. He's putting them like they're China dolls on his shelf. Tim Cook is going. TikTok CEO Xiao Chu is going. Sundar Pichai is going. Interestingly, Satya Nadella is not going. He did meet with them, and then Elon had to do a drop-in. He is not going, which to me is interesting. I think Sam Altman is going. Mark Zuckerberg is co-hosting a reception with billionaire Republican donors.
monday evening including miriam adelson um so i just this is they're like being moved around like like dolls or something like that it's really i i find it don't know why you would be that rich and be pushed around like that. I just, I'm rich enough not to, I mean, I have enough money where I'm like,
Fuck you, right? That's entirely right. And from a shareholder's perspective, these guys can't break out of the cycle of shareholder value. And to a certain extent, the reason they're CEOs is they're supposed to be fiduciaries for shareholder value.
And the greatest, I got to admit it, the greatest return on investment for a $3 trillion company right now or OpenAI is to give the inaugural committee a million dollars and say he's handsome and show up at his event and be polite. You're showing up at your boss's.
daughter's wedding and putting money in an envelope. I like the way you described it, like a mob wedding. And I hate to say it from a shareholder standpoint, it's a smart thing to do. And this is the problem with a kleptocracy or an autocracy, and that is the incentives through the campaign where... If I shitpost Democrats and Vice President Harris, I know that if she wins, she's not going to come after me. I don't know that with this guy. So it creates incentive.
opinion, rhetoric, false compliments. that are, you know, essentially kind of feel very much kind of Russia-like. Oh, I love Mr. Putin. He's so handsome and he's so great. I have talked to several of them off the record who are going in the... really don't want to go, let me just say. I mean, I suspect Zuckerberg, Musk, and Bezos do.
Okay, they're going to be the three that are going to sit together in the thing. And I suspect Tim will kind of be along the edges putting his eyes down quite a bit. Same thing with Sundar and Sam. That would be my guess. And the rest of them. It's interesting. I haven't heard a ton of... Bob Iger is busy dealing with the fires because he's got a lot of employees who are homeless right now because they have most of their operations in that area. But I haven't heard a lot of...
high-profile other CEOs. I don't know if Jamie Dimon's going. Oh, Kara, they're the only CEOs. The only people who matter are going. I mean, these people control the media. Right.
They have companies. Oh, you know what's interesting? I don't know. Is Jensen Huang going from NVIDIA? I don't know. I'll find out. I'll find out. I would be really interested to know if he's going. Knowing him, I don't think he... care compared i mean he's probably worried he's going to be deported because he didn't born here right yeah i don't i think he was born in taiwan i'm not sure he went to i believe he went to oregon state and then to stanford well let me
Let's see. Sundar was born in India. Sit him next to Bannon. Next to Bannon. Bannon, is he going to be there? Because he's been going... I mean, what I would do if I were Trump... Musk and Bannon? Musk and Bannon. I'd make them sit next to each other. Celebrity deathmatch. And I'd make them kiss. Like, you know, like you're on...
Like the Prince of Dorne in the mountain? Yes, right. You must kiss now. You must dance together. One jig. See, that's what I... Nobody knows how to be rich and evil. Speaking of being rich and evil... Waiting for the inauguration right now. Yeah. It feels like James Bond and Goldfinger waiting for the laser to cut your dick off. Oh, remember that. You know, coming up the thing. By the way, that was a joke from, I think that was Jimmy Kimmel. Was that Jimmy Kimmel? No, Stephen Colbert.
I need to credit the comedians I steal from. Anyway, interesting. Meanwhile, at the other end of Pennsylvania, new President Joe Biden delivered a stark warning in his farewell speech on Wednesday about the dangers of tech titans with unchecked power. Shall we listen? Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms and a fair shot for everyone.
to get ahead. We see the consequences all across America. And we've seen it before. So Biden mentioned the tech industrial complex. You're welcome, Biden. I say that all the time. Taking a page from Dwight Eisenhower's military industrial complex. He also said, quote, the truth is smothered by lies told for power and for profit.
You know, they, of course, made fun of him that he's whining. I kind of liked it. I like that Joe's going down fighting. I like that. I like the whole thing. What did you think? American makers of plowshares could, with time and is required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. The conjunction of an immense military establishment.
And a large arms industry is new in the American experience, yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. This was Eisenhower warning about the military-industrial complex, and it was a very prescient speech. Keep that in mind. Yeah, this is a guy who was not afraid of war, was a big supporter of the military, and he saw the emergence or the conflation of private interests and national interests to create a permanent military industrial complex.
There's no doubt about it. Biden speechwriters looked at this speech and I loved this speech. I think this is. And unfortunately, no one gives a shit because Musk is going to show up at a fire station and dominate the media or. They're going to talk about Vivek Ramaswani taking the J.D. Vince Senate seat. I mean, I got to give it to them between X and social media. They have basically just squeezed out. I mean.
Is Biden still president? You wouldn't know. This was an important speech. In some ways, I think it's his most prescient speech. It's a warning. and about the aggregation and the concentration of power around an industry. And no one gives a shit. No, they do give a shit. Here's why. I was thinking about the Jack Smith thing getting released, the files and some of this other stuff. And everyone's like, well, it's over. I'm like, you know what? Historically, it's not. We have to think.
long-term, eventually this will have importance. I don't know what happened when Eisenhower gave this speech. We weren't there, and obviously we don't know. But I feel like it's important for history to have this on the record. It's important. for this report not to be suppressed. It's important for Biden to say those things. And I do, you have to sort of get a bigger, more historical thing and how it's going to go down. What do you think Biden's legacy will be in 10, 20, 50 years?
I think it'll be tarnished by the fact that he ran again when he said he wasn't going to. I think that's hard in 10 years. I think, you know, he's leaving behind a really strong economy. He's done a lot of great things. I think probably good. I think eventually good, except. Depends on what Trump does, right? If Trump creates, you know, a dystopian future, it'll be bad. If he doesn't, maybe better, I guess. I think in the long run, better if everything...
We move along from Trumpism. This depends. I don't know. But getting it down for history is critically important, even if it doesn't matter. That's my feeling. I mean, remember that at long last, have you no shame. At the time, I think that was smothered out. And now it is when it was during the Army McCarthy hearings to Joe McCarthy. That wasn't when he went down, by the way. It was much later. And so I just feel like it's.
To say it is important. Often people say that sometimes when I say things like, why are you doing it? And I said, I'm not doing it for today. Like, I'm not. It must be said, I think. And I think Biden deserves much credit. Speaking of things that I talked much about.
Over 400 employees at the Washington Post sent a letter to Jeff Bezos. This is interesting. 400 employees. The letter expresses concern about the future of the paper, including, quote, recent leadership decisions that have led readers to question the integrity of the institution. Makes a point to note that the concerns are...
related to Bezos' decision and endorsements of presidential candidates. I'm just pointing it out. You don't have to say anything. I think 400 employees doing that is interesting. I didn't make them. So maybe they could, if they really get serious, maybe they could do a lunch walkout. Look, folks, as somebody. Okay. All right. All right. I haven't run big companies. I've run medium-sized companies.
Don't send me fucking letters. Just quit. Just go to work for the New York Times. Okay. All the peacocking and posturing and complaining and whining. You know, what I said to my ex-wife, yeah, I understand. Let's get divorced. That was harsh. Lovely woman. Lovely woman. All right. Anyways, I'm kind of done with employees. bitching and moaning, and it's a free labor market. The reporters of The Post are some of the most talented journalists in the world. Okay.
Jeff Bezos isn't going to... You want to talk about things he should do and he won't? You really think this is going to move the needle? I get it. I get it. I'm going to interject here because when I worked there, bitching and moaning... during a very early Me Too thing made a difference. Initially, they ignored the reporters and they pushed it and pushed it internally and it worked. It does, it can work at certain times. I think that's the mother of all false analogies.
Well, why? It can work to speak up. All right. That's just a whole— All right, I'll try to think of it. That's a warning. Cartoons? Yeah. One time, the post cut cartoons. They took out cartoons, and it so angered the readers that they put pictures around the post. That worked.
They put it back. I'm just saying it's okay to speak up. Oh, we didn't talk. Let's bring this back to me. You want to buy newspapers. Just see what I bought. What? What did you buy? I bought a football team in Columbia. What? Are you part of that group? Yeah. Explain for the people. Are you Ryan Reynolds adjacent? Yeah, not even. Not even. I'm like at the very bottom of the article and I say, also joining the investor group is podcaster and author.
Yeah, I'm a midlife meat crisis, Cara. I am part of a group. Explain the team. I don't have any interest, but go ahead. It's the second largest team in Bogota, La Equidad. Second largest. It's the second largest team in Bogota. Bogota. I got to say that correctly. Bogota. Bogota. This really smart kid who scans the world for teams and investments approached me and said, we're putting together an investor group.
And I really like this kid named Rob McElhaney. He's Ryan's partner in Wrexham, and he does this fantastic show called It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. And the two of them... A friend of mine from Apollo, Ava Longoria. Anyways, we bought this team. Do they know who you are?
Do you get to hang with them? Do we get any perks for this situation? Well, it's cost me a lot of money. I hope so. No, but do they know who you are? Who is they? The people you just spoke of, Ryan and Ava. Oh, the investor group. No, but Rob does. I think Rob got me into the deal. And also the guys who do the deal.
The honest answer is I don't know how I got into this. Why did you get in the deal? May I ask? Like of all the people in the world. Because I fear death and refuse to acknowledge I'm going to die. How did they get to you? It's like. How did they get to me? I don't know. You scan the world and you go.
Ah, Prof Galloway. Well, no, no. I don't know. I don't know if you listen to this or other podcasts. I'm super into football. Yeah. And I wanted to buy the Glasgow Rangers, but I couldn't figure that out. And so this, I'm excited to spend more time in Columbia. So are we going there? Are we flying the jet? Oh, we're going there a lot. Are you kidding? Are you going to scramble? Can I come with you?
Yeah. Or at least your boys can come with me. Anyway, so good. Okay. All right. Well, that's kind of glamorous. Team owner. From now on, I want you to call me team owner. Okay. All right. I'm going to get a fourth, fifth wife, star making ridiculously stupid.
Bigoted racist statements and have the league freak out. Oh, all right. I can't wait. I love that. You're like the other guy in the investment group. I like that at the bottom of the press release. I like that. It's hilarious. If you do read the articles.
I'm literally the last sentence. I said, also joining the investor group. You're like, you're at the bottom rung hanging on. And Ryan Reynolds' ass is way up there along with the leave room garden. I'm Sofia Coppola at the Academy Awards. I'm like, I'm here. I'm here. made some very excellent movies anyways
Congratulations, Scott. I think that's great. I think that's great. I'm not going to be buying a team in any case. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including last-minute plans to save TikTok. Big deal. And the heated confirmation hearings for Trump's cabinet nominees. Okay, so then let's get started. get to our first big story. As we tape Thursday morning, we're still waiting for the Supreme Court to decide on the TikTok ban. TikTok!
Supreme Court. I mean, it's January 19th is when it runs out, which is Sunday. But a lot of TikTok news is happening since our last episode. First up, as usual, I was right. Chinese officials have reportedly internally discussed an option of selling TikTok to Elon Musk, though TikTok has called the reports.
pure fiction, as if they'd know. Of course, they would like Elon to have it. He's adjacent. He's got a lot of business interests there. TikTok also has a lot of advocates in its corner. President-elect Donald Trump is considering executive order to save TikTok once he's in office, although someone... likened it to a press release with better with
Better stationary because it doesn't have the force of law. Because five years from now, if Trump's not there, a Democratic president or someone else could hold Apple and Google libel, just so you know. So I think they're going to follow the law, not Donald Trump. I think you're right. I think I got that right.
that Senators Ed Markey, Ron Wyden, and Cory Booker, along with Representative Ro Khanna, our friend Ro Khanna, have announced legislation to extend the TikTok ban deadline. It already has a 90-day thing that the president can put in place if there's efforts. underway, but there are not efforts underway. And President Biden's administration is considering who would...
push this thing is considering ways to keep TikTok available in the U.S. if the ban goes into effect. TikTok has said it might close down Sunday. There's a number of things that could happen, but I suspect if the Supreme Court says it's legal. Apple and Google will shut it down, or they'll shut themselves down.
about the backtracking and what I don't know what this the delay is interesting to me maybe there's a little bit of or maybe they all want to write their own this because this is such a big and it is a big and important decision Tell me what you think here, because the delay is interesting. I only think they all want to write. That would be my guess. And they need some time to do that. Yeah, I think it has geopolitical overlay. And that is.
China and the U.S. are the two biggest economies. I wouldn't call us enemies, but we're adversaries. And I think it's just dumb from a game theory standpoint. I mean, essentially what's happening here is the Biden administration... Kind of got tough, proposed this legislation. It passed. It's law. It is law of the land, as you pointed out. Law of the land. Law of the land.
All this bullshit with Democratic senators trying to scramble to write new laws to extend the ban, hoping that China will back down. Well, guess what? We're blinking. They're not. And so to not actually ban this thing. regardless of the fallout, I believe, weakens our ability and gives she the ability to think, you know what, when shit gets real...
We're we don't blink. They do. We're blinking right now. And I think that has geopolitical ramifications across any negotiation, whether it's China or trade. And that is they've said they've essentially said we're calling your bluff. And we've said, oh, OK, maybe we can figure out a way to extend the deadline. So maybe you'll blink. They're not going to.
or it doesn't appear they're going to. The other observation I would make is that, and I really hope this doesn't happen around Elon, is whenever Elon says something incredibly stupid or cruel or just downright bigoted, People do the kind of Trump thing. Oh, you know, he doesn't mean it. It's late at night. He says these things. You're right. It's just he has kind of one of the things we love about him is he has no filter. He has a lack of control.
Well, guess what? Where he has a filter, like, you know, a woman on Tinder who's attractive, who's like, you know, swipe right on one out of 7,000 men. Notice how he never says anything negative about China. Of course not. He's got real self-control and maturity when it comes to China. Never said anything. Oh, and by the way, Brazil, who said, go fuck yourself. All of a sudden, he's really polite and doesn't say and he's restrained around Brazil.
So this is the problem with, again, with a democracy and free speech that's not enforced for everybody and people aren't protected universally, is the incentives become... shitposts to people who don't have the balls or are still holding on to the fidelity of free speech and democracy because there's no downside. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I do think the Supreme Court will...
probably weigh in on national security issues. It seems like it. All the other courts have done so. It is the law. A Trump executive order will do nothing, just so you're aware. It's just empty things. And he can say, I'm not enforcing it. Pam Bondi, in her hearing, which we'll talk about in a minute, didn't confirm or deny whether she'd do it. It doesn't matter what they think. If you're, Tim, it matters.
is what Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai thinks can happen to them in five years if they don't follow. Because they can be liable for $60 billion in fines, right, if they don't follow it. Even if Trump... later and stuff like that. They are liable. They have to follow the law, which is right now that. Now, Congress can change it.
They can shift things. They can make new legislation. They can override the ban completely. But then you're right. We look like fucking wimps. We look like wimps to China. And once again, and of course, Trump wants to do the deal. I'm going to do the deal. I can see apparently spending an enormous amount of money.
enormous amount of its time because it's so visually interesting to him. It's like, I'm going to show the art. It keeps saying art of the deal. Like, stop it. Like, there's no deal here. You were the one. Let me just say, you know, the OG person who started this, Donald Trump. with his executive order against TikTok. I agreed with him at the time, by the way. And so he started this mess and now he's going to come. It's like the arsonist is going to come put out the fire. He started this thing.
Now he's trying to stop it. Everyone wants credit for the deal. There's all these very self-interested people around the basket like Jeff Yass, Elon Musk, Larry Ellison, whatever cockamamie idea they have, whatever billionaire can take over. I think there's nothing they can do. There's nothing they can do unless they overturn the actual law, which they can do. That's what they absolutely can do.
TikTok users who are worried about the app will be banned are flocked to other Chinese social media apps. They didn't rush off to Meta or anything else called Red Note, which I haven't gotten. It's apparently very fun. The app has grabbed the number one spot on Apple's most popular.
a free apps chart with a reported over 700,000 new users joining in two days. They can do this all day and night. You remember that from the Avengers? I can do this all day and night. The Chinese can do this all day and night with us. And now people are flocking to all these.
Chinese apps, well, are we going to ban all those? Right? I mean, we should have had a larger... a larger bill because um and i we should have had a larger bill that's what happened here we had a shitty bill that was all ridiculously political and and performative and now we've got this and have you tried red note scott have you what do you think about
Oh, Kara, I can barely like, I had to have my assistant download Blue Sky. I am so sick of building an audience and then finding out that the people that own this one are bad. And trying to get on another one. I'm just kind of, I mean, there's tug tug boat. There's just so many, I'm just.
At some point, I'm just going to go back to post-its and maybe put it in the elevator and maybe my neighbors will find it funny. I'm just going to start posting memes. I lived in Washington. I lived in faculty housing until 2017. And there was a woman there who's, you know, has, NYU is a gentle place and we don't kick people out of faculty housing. So it's literally a senior's home.
I was hands down the youngest person by about 70 years. And there was a woman there whose husband who was like some big wheel in, you know, the... Greek classics in the 60s, has been living there. And she'd be outside, and I liked her because she'd play with her dog and this tennis ball.
And she used to, she put up a little cork bulletin board and she put up like funny comics. That's where I'm headed. I think that's the last safe platform for me. I'm going to get you a cork bulletin board. I'm going to find a cork board and I'm going to post my shit there. Tax, little tax. Anybody on Monday. Dumb tax. Anybody on Monday that needs a break from this, I'm not going to advocate joining me in my Peronian Xanax methodology, the panics method.
I am going to be nonstop posting 80s music and footage of aerial firefighters. That is it. That is it. That is your pornography now at this point. Nothing about this.
No, pornography I'm going to do on my own. I don't even take a rush out. You got the story I wrote you about how popular they've become, how it's been like online pornography, watching these things. Oh, really? Yeah, I sent you the story. I don't read most of it. You should send shit out all day. I don't read most of it. I do. You should read it. I sent it directly.
It's all about the area. And also, there's many women in that group. The funniest thing you sent me, you did send me something where I laughed out loud, was a picture of Pete Hegg said. And it said DUI hire. I thought that was really funny.
It was an AI thing. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to that then. All right. We'll see where what's going to happen to the ban. Supreme Court, get going. Tick tock, tick tock. When we come back, we'll talk about the contentious confirmation hearings for Trump's cabinet, including DUI hire Pete Hegseth. and take a listener mail question about recovery responsibility with the L.A. fires. Trust isn't just earned. It's demanded.
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let's talk about all of my favorite basics from amazon that you need in your winter wardrobe some people think this is weird but i get all my clothes on amazon this is what i would buy if i didn't already own them i just got in a bunch of super cute packages from amazon so let's open them up their aesthetic is baby It's serene. It's a little basic on purpose. And now one is suing the other for stealing her vibes.
There's a lot of things going on in the actual suit, but what it boils down to really is one of the women, Sydney Gifford, says that the other woman, Alyssa Sheel, just won't stop copying her. Coming up on Today, Today Explained. Scott, we're back with our second big story. A number of President-elect Trump's cabinet nominees are on Capitol Hill this week for their confirmation hearings. It's, you know, speaking performative. Secretary of State nominee Marco Rubio got a welcome reception.
from senators on both sides of the aisle. Senator Rubio has never seen more qualified. He's like the statesman of the 20th century right now. Yeah, little Marco, little Marco is low bar Marco. I call you, Marco. While Attorney General nominee Pambani faced pointy questions about election denial and prosecuting Trump's enemies, she was pretty slippery, I thought.
And when asked by Senator Blumenthal about whether she would enforce the TikTok ban, Bondi avoided another direct answer. What a good lawyer she is. Let's listen. Will you commit to enforce that law on your first day? when you are confirmed if you are confirmed senator as i discussed with you during our meeting that is pending litigation within the department of justice well it's pending litigation but will you enforce that law i can't discuss pending litigation
But I will talk to all the career prosecutors who are handling the case. Absolutely, Senator. What? Give her the job. I don't know what else to say. Yeah, I mean, I find all of this. It's pending litigation. Are you going to pick your kids up from school after school today? That's speculative, Senator. I don't. That's a hypothetical. I don't. I don't know. Yeah.
She's not going to enforce it, but it doesn't matter. They'll enforce it themselves. What did you think of her at that hearing? Just curious. Pam? Yeah, Pam. Let's call it Pam. Marco Pam. Let's diminutize all of them. Well, look, okay, one, as a citizen, and when these people evaluate people for what are incredibly important jobs, I would find it refreshing if some of them actually answered questions even if it upset people.
But in terms of her skill set, I thought she demonstrated real skill. She demonstrated outstanding political skills. She came across as indignant and refused to answer any questions. That's the environment we're in. So I thought she was quite skilled, which makes her, quite frankly, probably even more scary.
I think Hegseth. Oh, we're getting to that. Let me read. Yeah. So the real fireworks happened at the hearing for defense secretary nominee. The very unqualified Fox News host, he's qualified to be a Fox News host, Pete Hegseth, whose confirmation is looking likely at this point, Hegseth.
had he did exchanges with Democrats over allegations of sexual misconduct, his comments about women in combat and whether he's qualified for the job. And when asked by Senator Alyssa Slotkin about whether he would carry out an illegal order from the president, Hegseth danced around. sound and badly. Let's listen.
Do you believe there is such a thing as an illegal order that Joe Biden or any other president Donald Trump could give? Is there anything that a commander-in-chief could ask you to do with the uniformed military that would be in violation of the US Constitution?
anybody of any party could give an order that is against the constitution or against the law right okay so and are you so are you saying that you would stand in the breach and push back if you were given an illegal order i start by saying i reject the premise that President Trump will be giving any illegal orders at all. All right. Well, again, you know, and they also came out swinging during the hearings, focusing a lot on Hex's personal shortcomings.
I did not feel this was an effective strategy. Me and the Cuban didn't think it. I thought they should, like, nobody cares that he's a drunk and a cheater and possibly a sexual predator. I mean, allegedly, I think. He seems pretty yucky to me. Creepy at the very least. Creepy and drinks too much. We know that. I don't think anybody cares. Obviously, Donald Trump doesn't care. These senators, these Republican senators don't care. What they needed to do was show what...
an incompetent person is. And Senator Duckworth tried to by trying to get him to name countries. What are the nations in Asiana? Yeah, right. Exactly. They should have been a rat-a-tat with, what about this in the Ukraine? What about here? What about Houthis? What about Syria? What would be your next move in Syria? What would be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, to show he is just as...
dumb as a box of hammers. And that would have been a much more effective thing to do. Centering in on his... Honestly, I don't care that his wife was there. I mean, he's obviously a pig. And he may have changed. I have no idea. I don't get the impression. I've heard there's been reports he continues to drink heavily.
I don't think that matters at this point, even though I agree it's pretty heinous. But I thought they bollocks this badly. What do you think? I think you're exactly right. You kind of stole my thunder. First off, Senator Jill Brown's questioning of him. Totally triggered me and I was trying to figure it out. And I'm like, this is summarized. Her tone and his face summarized the last year of my first marriage. It just, it was a joke. I thought that'd be funnier. Okay.
I feel bad. You're exactly right. Folks, Trump has demonstrated that we have moved, and that is... And Democrats kind of started this off. You know, a lot of a lot of former presidents have not acquitted themselves well. But basically, President Trump has demonstrated that at least 49 percent of the populace and probably like 70 like.
Regarding drinking, personal behavior, what I'll call more generally we refer to as character, you know, honey badger just don't care. And it doesn't, you come across as indignant, you come across as a cultural. Chris, it doesn't work. What they should have been asking is, what do you think is the likelihood or the capabilities of an amphibious assault on China? And what are we doing to prevent that? What new technologies or combat?
techniques have you learned from the wars in Gaza and in Ukraine? And I think it would have demonstrated, I believe, that quite frankly, he just doesn't have a command. He doesn't have the domain expertise to make really good decisions around this stuff. I believe. He knows a lot about combat.
But the defense secretary is supposed to be able to make very high-level decisions strategically that position us to be the greatest, continue to be the greatest fighting force in history, and then coordinate resources across all sorts of agencies. five different branches of the armed services. And no, they didn't go there. Instead, the Democrats... He went a little bit around his bad...
management of his tiny little things, which I think they should have, too. Well, even that isn't adjacent. Current things. That's right. Senator Duckworth was the only one that kind of did her, in my opinion, that kind of did her job. And that is... She's been in the Army, obviously. He can be a low-character person and still, I hate to say this, be probably a competent Secretary of Defense. What you can't be...
is a high character person who doesn't know what the fuck you're doing and how to organize 3 million men and women in uniform with multiple alliances, multiple technology. I mean, you have to understand somewhat. the incredibly complex supply chain of trying to figure out a way to arm and supply nuclear submarines roaming the Earth that aren't even... that aren't even coming above water for 18 months at a time. This shit is complicated. Showing him as incompetent.
showing like I was always like show don't tell they kept saying he was incompetent show him as incompetent show that he can't answer a question the funniest one though was you show this like what are the countries in this group and what are the countries in this and then you ask him okay what are
the three brands of vodka you could make a joke you could bring that drunkenness in but because he knows the three that was george that's pretty disrespectful but i know it is but i'm just saying you just well if they're going to do the performative thing you might as well do that general jim beam and sergeant
Jack Daniels. Right. This is the George Conway thing. First ask him the hard question and then ask him one that he knows the answer to. But it was it's really it was just you. Let me just say I was interesting when I said this and Mark did the same thing. I got like, oh, people do care. I'm like, I care. You care. Nobody else cares. Or they don't care enough to knock them off for this. And by the way, if you don't think we've had really creepy drunk.
The secretaries of defense in our history, I don't know what you're smoking because we have. We've had a lot of creepy people in high. positions of power in this country for years and years and years. I'm sure we've had rapists. I'm sure we've had drunks. I'm sure we've had all kinds of malfeasance. But what matters is competency in this moment, because publicly...
It doesn't – they didn't put a glove on this guy, I thought. But just to be clear, he's never been convicted of anything. Right, exactly. He's clear – He paid her off. That's fine. Yeah. Which in some cases people do pragmatically. I feel like I have to be Mika with me on Morning Joe right now. Right. But I'm all about. I don't think Nixon was a good man, but I actually think he was pretty fucking brilliant geopolitically. I want somebody...
I'd like Dave Clark, the former head of operations from Amazon, to be secretary of defense. Because the bottom line is that when you run defense, you are essentially the world's most important operations person. And there was no questions around the dumb important stuff like supply chain, weapons developments, new tactics in war, like tunnels and drones are the new weapons in every war, whether it's tanks. Thanks.
or jet engines or radar. There's new technologies that change the landscape. And if you're not on top of those technologies, you stand to lose to a smaller army, as evidenced by what's going on in Russia and Ukraine. And there was no thoughtful discussion around whether this guy has any command of that. Instead, they wanted to know if he was drunk at some gathering. I mean, come on. Anyway, I thought the Democrats came across as like...
Okay. Maybe you just bang your intern quietly or your PhD student, but just ask the fucking questions about being secretary of defense. Exactly. I don't know if it would have worked necessarily, but it would have put it on the record, right? Someone was arguing with me and I said, do you know that Katie Couric interview with Sarah Palin was...
deadly because she was polite. She's like, what do you read? What about this? She wasn't rude. She just showed that Sarah Palin was unqualified and ignorant. And she didn't do it rudely. She didn't. You mean what you couldn't name? One newspaper? Yeah. Remember that? What do you read? Well, I read them all. Well, which one? Which one? Well, name.
just won. Go watch that interview. And that's how they should. They should have had Katie Couric in there teaching them how to ask questions. And she did it very gracefully. But at the end of the interview, Sarah Palin was finished, as far as I was concerned. And we understood. everyone the penny went
Click. The other thing that I thought, I will say one thing, Joni Ernst, I get that they're putting pressure on you and they're going to primary you if you didn't do this, but your values were around women in the military and sexual assault. She is a sexual assault victim. that at some point you got to stand up for what you are and you didn't and you've taken a dive and I understand why you did.
But boy, I'm sorry, you should have stood up for women and you didn't. So, and women like yourself. I've been thinking about Senator Ernst and I thought, God, it's given her background. And I thought, is it unfair? To hold someone to a different standard because they were a victim of something. Not just that, she was in the military, too. Well, the one I love, though, my favorite, is Senator Susan Collins is going to take the weekend because she's concerned.
You want to talk about a new position in the narcissist crypt? Right. There is a place for Senator Collins because Senator Collins... I will, maybe Kalshi. Oh my God, I'm going to bet on this. If anyone can find a betting site. around how Senator Collins is going to vote. She's like, look at me. I'm concerned. I'm a moderate. I'm thoughtful. I need to take the weekend to review. His testimony. I have never been this confident ever since Floyd Mayweather fought Conan McGregor.
Oh, yeah, Senator Collins is really struggling with this decision. She's like, look at me. I'm a thoughtful moderate. Nobody owns me. Go back to Maine. That vote, no one, Pete Egg, Seth, and... President Trump are not worried about Senator Collins falling in line with the Republican Party. But she's like, please, look at me. Look at me. I'm going to think about it. I'm not sure. The one I like is Murkowski. I think Murkowski.
has got a set, but not the rest of them. Because, and it goes to the learning. Because she won. They went after her and she won. Yeah, but one of the keys to having moderates who actually vote their conscience and aren't live in fear is that... I think it's final five voting in Alaska where moderates actually get elected. Right. Anyways, I'm all Andrew Yang. Well, they do have the prospect. This time it's slightly different, but I don't really care. I'd still be fuck you.
Deploying Musk's money, he keeps threatening, Trump keeps threatening deploying Musk's money. I'm going to a new members club tonight, Shane Margot, and I'm not sure I'm going to drink here. I'm not sure I'm going to get fucked up. And become more charming and like myself and like the world more. I need to think about it, Kara. I need to think about the ills of alcohol. Remember, you are a team owner now. Behave like one. That is behaving like one. Are you kidding? That's fair. That's fair.
You just need to show up with a young, young hot woman. You're Ryan Reynolds adjacent now, finally. Can you get him to come on the show? Ryan Reynolds? Yeah, get him to come on the show. Now that you're friends or whatever. I just want a discount on Mint Mobile. Yes, Mint Momol. Okay, Scott, they're one of our sponsors many years ago, or maybe recently. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question.
This question comes from Nancy in Santa Rosa. Let's listen. Hey, Scott and Tara, this is Nancy in Santa Rosa, California. My question is economic and tied to the fires in Southern California. Having lived through several wildfires and been evacuated, I have to say it's breaking my heart to see what's going on in Los Angeles. But my question for you two is, where are the banks?
It seems to me we're talking about government assistance. We're talking about rebuilding assistance. We're talking about what the insurance companies are going to be able to do. But it seems to me that most of those homes and most of those businesses were in buildings that were basically owned by the banks, and the occupants were paying it off. So where are the banks?
That's my question. Where are the banks? Once again, in another disaster, where are the banks? Thanks, you guys. You've made me so much smarter than I deserve to be. Well, thank you, Nancy from Santa Rosa. I'll very briefly say they will be here because they will suffer losses or they will collect all this property because a lot of people probably aren't going to keep, you have to keep paying your mortgage even if your house doesn't exist from what I understand.
Because you have the commitment to the banks. Many people will default or work out other terms with these banks or the banks will get the properties or the land, I guess, and be able to develop it or sell it or whatever. I mean, I think that's what's going to happen here. And I think probably some of them will suffer.
Some of the banks will and some won't. You know, the more disturbing conversation going on is all these idiot Republicans saying that they're not going to pay. They're going to add, you know, add conditions onto payments around disaster relief. It's just a ridiculous way. Our country has always went to the aid and disaster relief. And so that to me is heinous. But in this case, I think the banks will either own the properties or...
building loans to build these things back at probably pretty good rates. I know Newsom's working towards keeping insurance companies off the backs of people and getting, probably, government will probably play a big role here. Scott? I think they're going to be fine because I think it's federal legislation. I know that in Florida, to get a mortgage, you have to show proof of insurance.
So I would imagine the majority of those homes that burned down are going to get an insurance check such that they can continue to pay their mortgage. The banks cover their ass as they're supposed to. And if you're in a high fire area. or a dangerous area. Or I think even if you just get any mortgage, you have, as a condition of getting a mortgage, you have to show homeowners insurance. So I don't think they have much exposure. The more interesting conversation, in my view,
And I'm a bit of a Darwinian here. We have a tendency to always want to socialize the losses. And the reality is when you build a tinderbox or decide to buy a tinderbox in a beautiful, spectacular... desert with high pressure and low pressure systems. I'll go to me. I live on the water in Florida. There's real climate change risk or weather risk. And my view is I should either pay for the insurance.
at a market rate or move or the value of my house should go down. And so instead, we go to this understandable sympathy for these people. taxpayers, including people who could never afford to live in the Palisades, end up bailing folks out. I just hate to say it. I think if you're going to live in a dangerous area...
Because of the upside to you personally from a consumption standpoint, I don't think taxpayers should be bailing these people out. And until people feel the full weight of whether it's climate change or the cost of living in high risk areas. we're not going to do anything about it. It's a fair point. I think there's initial disaster relief you can bring in. Yeah, 100%. And, you know, cover costs that people pay back and things like that. But I tend to agree with you. I think you...
I know I live in an earthquake zone in San Francisco, so I went out of my way to put in steel girders and put them down into the bedrock. I did so much stuff around fire in terms of... of not having as much wood. I thought about passive art. It's called passive architecture, which is thicker walls, more concrete, et cetera. I didn't do all of it because it was an old house. I wasn't able, it was an old wooden house, but I definitely did everything possible. It cost me a lot.
lot of money to do so. I have enormous insurance, you know, on that because of earthquake insurance. And it's all at the cost to me. Now, I would expect some some federal help around food or temporary things or relief, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
demand it after a certain amount of time. Safety would be one of them, like keep my house safe, keep like looters and things like that. Why should taxpayers, federal taxpayers at the gas pump paying whatever it is, tax on their current income as a waiter or as a chiropractor, why should they be subsidizing my right to live on the water in Florida?
Well, that's a bigger question. Why should people pay for schools? Because if I don't have kids, why should I pay for corn subsidies? Because there's a social good to having an educated populace. Is there a social good to making sure Scott can stare at the ocean waiting for the ass count? It's not your right to live in a spectacular desert that collides with the sea, with these beautiful mountains that create these funnels of hot air.
If you want to live there, in my opinion, you should bear the costs, including the risks. Yeah. Well, Nancy, the banks will be fine. If there's a mortgage of any kind, the banks will own the property. That tends to be the situation. Or they'll figure something out. They always sort of work it all out and will overcharge people as healthcare companies have gotten so good at doing. Anyway.
If you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break and we'll be back for your prediction. This week on Prof G Markets, we speak with Andrew Ross Sorkin, editor-at-large of Dealbook at The New York Times and co-anchor of CNBC's Squawk Box.
We discussed the key economic trends he's watching for Trump's second term, the evolving landscape of the AI market, and the rumors that China is considering selling TikTok to Elon Musk. If China is prepared to sell to Elon Musk and only to Elon Musk, What does that say about the leverage and influence that China must think that they have over Elon Musk by dint of his factories and Tesla business in the nation state that is China?
You can find that conversation and many others exclusively on the Prof G Markets podcast. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction and make it good. I think that... Inflation and the 10-year bond are going to be the adults in the room in the next few months. Well, if you think about 13,000 homes have been destroyed. And the idea that, I mean, Trump's two big policies are, I mean, a few things. The implicit kind of...
expectation that he'll either keep taxes low or lower them. Two, that he'll take a tougher stand on illegal immigrants. And three, that he's going to impose tariffs. This is the perfect storm. for inflation and where you're going to see examples of it that hit the news are when people start to rebuild in the Palisades and the hiring pool.
is vastly diminished. And the cost of a washing machine or a garage door is up 40 or 60%. And that month you see a bump up in CPI and the tenure goes fucking crazy. It's like... The person I am most excited about in the Trump cabinet who is the most qualified is the 10-year bond. Because if it starts to spike and goes and says, The expectation of inflation is coming back because of this guy's inflationary policies around tariffs.
deporting immigrants. And I want to be clear, if you've committed a crime and you're an illegal immigrant, that's your second crime. I am down with those people being deported. But the reality is, if you go to a construction site,
It is an undocumented workers' Lollapalooza. It is indeed. And by the way, some of these people, speaking for a friend, are remarkably fucking talented. Right. And hardworking. And especially in California, by the way. And will get on a roof, work 12 hours such that they can make. you know, 300, 400 bucks that day, and then send 200 home, you know, to wherever it is, to El Sal or wherever they're from.
But the fact that all of a sudden these people are going to be scared to show up to a work site or that they might be worried about or they just might not come here. It's been this on a positive note. This this workforce has been one of the most flexible, economically advantageous workforces. in history. And then you're going to start this bullshit around taxing all these products. And by the way, these folks the next day will implement reciprocal tariffs.
You want to talk about the choke point in AI? You know, I used to think, oh, it's nuclear stocks are going to go up. Nuclear stocks, my analyst, Ms. Averill, reminded me that nuclear can't really be online. They can't handle a third of the incremental demand by like... 2050 because there's latency in building a nuclear power plant. She said it's going to be all about liquid natural gas. We get a lot of LNG from Canada. What happens when Canada gets sick of being pissed on? Food prices.
You're going to see. Do you know how many products? Chicken. There are cars that are eventually sold or quote-unquote manufactured in the U.S. that go back and forth to Mexico, different components and different parts, like a half a dozen or a dozen times. So they immediately reciprocate with like-minded tariffs. And what's going to bring...
it to light is some of the costs around trying to rebuild. And then the adult in the room on the cabinet is going to be the tenure. And if inflation starts to spike. All of his grandiose plans around tariffs, it's going to come undone. So anyways, my prediction is that the rebuild effort as we begin to cost it out are going to shine a light on the inflationary pressures of kind of...
Trump's signature policies. God, that was boring. No, it wasn't. It's interesting. Jesus, I'm bored. No, it is interesting. Amanda and I are renovating our house in D.C., and we were thrilled it's almost done. Like I remember, we were like, we missed like all the cost of wood, all the cost of labor, all the costs of all the things that were from all, you know, we bought locally, but we did a lot of local stuff, windows fixed and stuff like that.
I went to this guy who was doing our window restoration. We restored old windows. And it was, I don't know who the workers were, but they were these wonderful skilled workers all over the place. And I don't, they were all from.
from other countries, every single person in there. He was training them. And they were wonderful craftspeople. But I don't know where they were from. I don't know anything about it. But at the same time, I was thinking, oh, my God, if this was in Trump administration, this would cost us double to do.
the renovation or it would be the inflation pressures or the ability to even have workers would have been like spiked. And I agree with Scott. It's going to be, if people are going to start to feel it really hard, food prices. furniture, couches, everything. Everything you own is...
is subject to this problem. We are so intertwined. One of the great stories, actually, I would push people to look at was Atlantic did one on how many plastics there are in everything we do. And so one of the reasons these things burn so quickly.
was because so much of our goods, from couches to everything, with so much plastic in our houses, it goes up and is quite toxic. I heard we have plastic in our testicles. Did you read that article? Not my testicles. Mine are clean. My testicles are clean. Well, based on that...
down vest you're wearing. I'm now convinced you have vesticles. Where did you get that thing? Stop it. David Zaslav gave it to me. Of course he did. Yeah, he wears it. Of course he did. He wears it. I said, where can I get one of your lesbian vests?
He wears a lot of layers. Yeah, the guy got it. I had to interview Mark Thompson at one of their events, and this was part of the swag. I love it. It's very Kara Swisher. It is. It is. I love it. It's one of my favorite things. It's high quality. It's very soft.
Because it's from David Zaslaw. Before we go, a quick look at what's going on elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. This week on Prof G Markets, Scott spoke with... our favorite Canadian, who now will be under tariffs, Andrew Ross Sorkin, editor-at-large of DealBook at the New York Times and co-anchor of CNBC's Squawk Box.
Disclosure, he's not actually Canadian. We just call him that. Let's listen to a clip of you and Andy Ross. If China is prepared to sell to Elon Musk and only to Elon Musk, what does that say? about the leverage and influence that China must think that they have over Elon Musk by dint of his factories and Tesla business in the nation state that is China.
And then it probably raises a whole secondary order of questions, which is, if China feels this way, how should we as Americans feel that people are calling him the co-president of the United States? To say nothing of Russia, Andy Ross. And his influence, his various influence. How did that go with you and him?
I love Andrew Rosser. I think the most trusted journalist in the world right now is Anderson Cooper. And I think second is probably, I think the most trusted business journalist in the world is Andrew and my co-host. Ed Elson, this 25-year-old kid who's been working with us, who is to me what I am to you, and that is I discovered his ass. And he said to him, he stopped the podcast, no joke, and he said, you're my professional.
role model. To which I responded, well, I hope he pays your bonus, bitch. But anyways. I was like, not good. Ed, don't you understand the fine art of kissing up? He has better hair. Let's be clear. He's arguably the most likable man in media.
I've never heard anyone say anything bad about Andrew R. Sargon. I think he's underpaid, actually. I've told him that because he just thinks he wants to work at the end. Oh, he makes bank. I know, but he could make bankier. He could make bankier because he could go off on his own. He does. He does. He does, but he likes to stay. He can't give speeches. He can't do other things. He can't do this. He can't do that. Maybe you should buy the New York Times.
Oh, God. Listen up. Next week, we'll be in your feeds a day late because of the holidays. See you on Wednesday to talk about the inauguration. We're going to tape on Tuesday after it's all over. I have plenty to talk about, all the pictures of the, you know.
the three amigos or the three idiotis who will be sitting at the parade. And listen, it is no degrees. And the richest people in the world have to sit there on really uncomfortable chairs until Donald Trump gets up. What a great world this is. Scott, read us out.
Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Saverio, and Dan Shulon. Nishat Krooz, Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot.
from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and... business the dallas cowboys the los angeles lakers manchester united man city Cricket in India, nothing, nothing compared to the second best team in Bogota, La Equidad.