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providing intelligent tools for your service agents to make customers happier. AI built into a single platform you can use right now. That's why the world works with ServiceNow. Visit ServiceNow.com slash AI for people to learn more. Hi everyone, this is Tivvett from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher and I'm an Aspen. What's got you here at the Aspen Ideas Festival? Yes, I am. This is an aggressively adorable town. It's a little bit irritating in that regard.
I'm interested in where your house is. I want to go see it. It's fine. It's great. It's a lot of ideas and a lot of big people I ran into, your friend Richard Reeves in the airport. There's all kinds of really cool people here. It's fun. I did two events. One was a thing called American Vortex with David Brooks, was the moderator and Mike Madrid was on the panel and Sheryl and I felt that was interesting. Then Brian Chesky interviewed me for my book,
which was interesting. Do you think that people go for Aspen or they go for the ideas? Oh no, the ideas. They're totally into it. Let me just tell you, we have so many fans. I've been mobbed by people. I've been like mobbed. It was crazy. People wanting pictures. They all ask about you and they all have an opinion about Scott Galway, which was always enjoying.
But they like you. They have a lot of affection for you. But someone, I always dying with famous people and you say, did they ask about me and I say, no, you know I do that or you do that all the time, right? Emily Radicalsky is finally coming to her senses. She's my number three on her number two. Last night, I got a text from Julie Louise Dreyfus who was here who did an interview, great podcast interview with someone here.
I didn't want a couple of weeks ago with her but she did a wonderful job and she text me and she says, you want to have dinner and we did. We ended up having dinner. And she literally says, tell Scott, I really am enjoying listening to him. I would love to meet him. She was, she's a, yes, it's the first time a well-known person has asked me. I appreciate that. The key for me. The key for me is not to meet them. I literally
define, don't meet your heroes. I think people are going to be engaging and interesting and I'm neither of those. But I, I, Julia Louise Dreyfus is literally staring at me when I go to sleep at night because your friend Tammy Hadad gave me this deep pillow. Oh, I have one too. Yes, great. And you know me, very few things past mustard to get into the northern European manic depressed clean household decor of Scott Calaway. I don't like anything. I don't like,
I don't like spare change. I don't want, I like spare change, Landeron. Scott's house has had nothing on I tried to put stuff on the counter. I want something that says, children not welcome and this guy is very wealthy. Please take off your clothes. That is kind of the message I'm trying to communicate to people. And the kids, kids and guests are not welcome. Visitors for a little while, for a little while. But please do not stay here as you cannot maintain these standards.
But that pillow that she gave me is such a cool pillow and it's on one of my chairs, my barber berry chair I might add in my bedroom. Anyway, that's my Julia Louise Dreyfus story. Yeah, it's it's a picture of her as Mount Rushmore when she was in V. It's her face on it. And then it has Scott your name on it, right? No, I didn't get the custom pillow. Oh, I got the custom middle. You always got a one up me. I got a plan. No, I'm not claiming my name is on it.
Literally, well, I didn't claim it. You can't even have your name on it. You can't even let me have a pillow. I was one up in you. I was wondering. You even let me have a pillow. No, I didn't even know they didn't not put names on it. What's Julia Louise Dreyfus like? She's wonderful. She's lovely. She's smart. She's so thoughtful. Just thoughtful. She has a new movie called Tuesday that I
recommend everybody see. It's a it's a dramatic role, but she's still very funny in it. But it's about a mother whose whose daughter is dying and the the the specter of death arrives at their door in the form of a giant macaque that she eats. Anyway, it's really crazy. It's a crazy movie but she but it's wonderful. She's wonderful. It's a dream. You know, this is a role you wouldn't. She's been in a lot of dramatic roles actually and quite a wonderful actor. But she's she's just
everything you'd imagine her to be an elegant and classy paid for dinner. She's like everything was great. She was like pay for I love that paid for dinner by jail. But she she likes scotch. She listens and she really said gift scot my regards. And I was very touched. I was like you're thank you Julia. Yeah, first person to for us about me. But you're going to be spending a lot of time and asking because I I think I told you about a home there. I'm renovated. Yes. Yes. It's nice.
You know my strategy. I want a series of homes where my kids come visit me and I can just hang out and wait for the ask answer in that. Yes. Yeah. That's where it's going to happen. I can see it. There's a real there is a wealth divide here that's so apparent. There's so many wealthy people here. It's kind of it's notice it's like more than Hamptons. It's not a divide. It's wealth. There's no divide. There's very few. Well, there's like certain people who serve them and the rich
people. That's there's you can see it really. Yeah. The living basalt or now they have those tourist visas where people come in. But there's a it's actually a really big problem in Pit Com County. It's it. All the workers have been priced out of living there. Although I do think if you look at actually if you look at the economic data and this is 40 years overdue. But the the part of the stack economically that's grown wages finally faster than inflation of the last few years
is service workers. And that's because literally COVID was like let me get this. You're going to pay me nine bucks an hour to tell some fucking idiot to put on their mask and I've got to put myself in harm's way. And a lot of them just opted out of the labor force and fortunately. I mean it's really good even if you think about I'm fascinated by tipping culture. Now you're expected to tip the person the barista at a coffee place. You know those pads that they flip around.
Yes they have it. Yeah. And they sit there staring at you like bro. But rich guy buying an $11 coffee you're not going to give me 20% and I think it's kind of actually it's a good thing. I think I do think especially in a place like Aspen. I think a lot of those workers are actually making pretty good money right now which is a wonderful thing. Yeah I think so it's just you can feel it like the construction going on. It's really it's just the money just oozes out of
this place. But but and unless it's beautiful it's it's crazy. It's it is crazier than many places and we go to a lot of different places for these conferences. I'm just one more macro thing about Aspen as I'm renovating a house there. Aspen is a perfect example. I mean essentially it's a
beautiful mountain town but there's no reason homes should be going for $50 million there. But what they do is they have weaponized government and they make it impossible to get housing permits or even renovation permits thereby you can't build housing thereby the incumbents who already own a
home see create what is effectively beach run real estate even though it's not on the beach such that the people already own homes get wealth here and wealth here and people who need homes or need to build apartments for workers or for middle class people got forbid who want to live in that
area they cannot afford a home. It's a beautiful mountain but there are a lot of beautiful mountains in the Rockies and what a group of rich people have done is they've come together and created a conspiracy to create out of control income inequality in this little region such that the incumbents get wealth here and wealth here into a certain extent. This is what's happening all over the nation is the incumbents just make it very very difficult for the entrance. Yeah yeah well
it is beautiful. I mean it is beautiful and by the way Lauren Bober does not going to be your congressperson anymore when you're an old-fashioned. She heard that she won her primary though. She won her primary in the fourth she had to leave this district which includes Aspen because she was going to lose to that guy who's a businessman here an Aspen to a Democrat she nearly lost her business. She's going back to Congress. She's going back to Congress because she won in the fourth.
So just to know we have to move on we're recording this before tonight's presidential debate we'll share our thoughts in our next episode we talked about it in the last episode we've got a lot to get to do including the Supreme Court hands the Biden administration and social media companies a big win a big story and Volkswagen gives Rivian a five billion dollar shot in the
arm or in the car I guess. But first Waymo speaking of cars robot taxi service now available to everyone in San Francisco the company says as many as 300,000 people were on the wait list for San Francisco service not all smooth sailing as you know the US safety probe into Waymo last month
found 17 reports of crashes and five other possible traffic law violations but no injuries that there's probably like hundreds of human ones I just want to make that point and earlier this month the company recalled software and all its cars after one crash into a telephone pole the services
are already been fully available in Phoenix for four years. I ride it all the time I I agree there's the safety probe should go on and on and on but they work really well and I think eventually they are going to sort it out correctly and they're much safer than I'm sorry human drivers they just are
would you get in a way Mo I get in them all the time but would you 100% and when they whenever I read those stats put out by some you know union or far left group that's just outraged at the the destruction of automation and they've decided to they've decided to infuse everything that's
wrong with the tech community income inequality into autonomous driving and I hear these stats I see the stats in this article saying 11 injuries reported in the last year from autonomous driving and my first thought is okay now do 16 and 86 year olds now now look at the pool of
16 year I mean do you really have teaching a kid to drive right now I am just horrified you go to the DMV you go to the DMV they take a test saying what's the difference between a double yellow line in a single yellow and as long as they don't get more than like 20% of those questions wrong they
say God be with you and you can roll out and start driving as long as there's someone in the car with you and I remember them the way home my kids like can I drive and I'm like no fucking way he's like well I got my learners permit and I'm like okay but this is how we learn they'll let anyone
literally and then you can't take drivers licenses away that's how you drive excuse me that's how we are both I just drove yeah that's how I did it too you're right I had a lesson I guess I guess I had a lesson I'm used to come home early or come home from work and I drive her open man a
stick ship I learned how to drive on a stick ship to up and down in the garage but were they really screwed up here was picking the first market to be San Francisco because they made the mistake of thinking of their technology of doctors well and I bet I would bet and I don't know
this I would bet that they're getting much less pushback and Phoenix and they aren't San for getting almost none yeah they're getting because they're they're a group of conservatives that are like okay can it get Nana to her physical therapy appointment more easily and less expensive
boom I mean where I think their biggest mistake was one deciding the test market should be should be San Francisco not realizing that okay they're they're not early adopters they're people who host the tech community who are going to find problems and anything related to technology that
they can reverse engineer to some sort of big tech or income inequality the other thing is this technology perfectly embodies what Bill Gates said about technology the stuff that's supposed to take three years takes 10 years and the supposed stuff that's supposed to take 10 years takes three
this was supposed to take three years it's happening but it's going to take 10 years and we're kind of year seven or eight into it yeah I agree I think the reason they're saying this was multifaceted wasn't just that I think it's also a challenging environment that's not in the snow right they
can't it's harder with snow and weather heavy weather and so I think and they're doing Los Angeles too they're they're also they've been testing in Los Angeles in Phoenix they go to the airport which I think they I think they go to the airport and so they're doing a little more complex stuff
so I think they pick places that that work for the weather and everything else and San Francisco's a relatively mild climate in general it's a couple of rains a lot but it's that's not as often as it used to be so I think that's one and the challenge of the hills is
is a different challenge than Phoenix that's what they were looking for but I have to say I just I use them I I think everyone will not even think about it years from now and again I've had so many close calls and ubers with human drivers I'm sorry it's just to it it it should be under
complete strict safety codes and we should watch it carefully but let me tell you when it starts to learn and it won't make the same mistakes that man I will make over and over again my mom keeps wanting to get to drive again I'm like I'm never on this she does I saw that I saw lucky show
to my house hunched over in a walker asking me if I was gay every 30 seconds and then heading off into the wild roads of Florida in her car I know I'm ever seeing her I walked out to say goodbye and the most horrifying thing I saw was like she can't be in the left she's she's Jesus Christ she's
mine is steering wheel and I remember saying or she's like how do I get to Palm Beach and I'm like okay it's easy you literally come out the driveway you make a right and you don't stop until you see a big sign that says Palm Beach left and you're you see the breakers and she's like great and she
literally by bombs out bangs the left I mean right there I'm like that's it she's gone problem solved for Jeffrey and Cara she's gonna end up she's gonna end up in Havana before she gets to Palm Beach it was so scary she cannot she still wants to drive that was
anyway I know I know I don't talk to me don't speak to me about this it's a very it's a very delicate subject among the switchers she asked me where the bathroom was and she disappeared and I found her in the family room 15 minutes later I'm like oh yeah definitely get her on I 95 my little elderly abused little little ages in there you're definitely gonna hear her she used to like you she was she can I just tell you she was a terrible driver at 40 I used to be her favorite gay guy no
longer I know I know she was a terrible driver at 40 so it's continued um so Julian Assange is a free man this is a fascinating case Assange the founder of WikiLeaks pleaded guilty to violating the espionage act under a plea deal in the US court room in the remote island of
Sipan I didn't even know we had a US court room in the remote island of Sipan the judge sentenced Assange to 62 months which you already had served in a London prison the guilty plea comes over a decade after WikiLeaks published confidential US military records about America's actions in Iraq
and Afghanistan I mean this seems like the longest running thing ever like it's a decade it's like crazy and he's been in various places trying to seek asylum and kicked out various places you know some people think he's an asset of Russia I guess but he they finally decided just to
let him go it's going back to Australia I think Australia right actually when I read this I'm not a fan of Julian Assange I believe that I think that a lot of people on the far left just are naive about what's required to keep our our short safe and I think even if you empathize with someone who
believes they're trying to do the right thing I think when you shove a you know a USB up your ass and head to Moscow you should you know I like what Madeline Albright said our our you know our memory is long and our reaches far but at the end of the day I was happy to hear this because
he's paid a real price this is a man who's really for the most part given up his youth and his men on the run has been hiding out I think in the Ecuadorian embassy where was that somewhere you're up living with cats finally they got so sick of them they kicked them out you know and and
you got the sense did you see that picture of them and you read too much in this video of him boarding that jet you got the sense I don't want to say he's a broken man but at some point he's like it's time for me to get on with my life and also he didn't speak because he's usually so outspoken
if you know you can be a part of this deal is shut the fuck up oh I got it I well maybe yeah you're right maybe so I bet I bet they I'm sure they have left an opening that says if you you bet I bet his lawyer has said I have one piece of advice to one live your life to shut the fuck
up three C number two because did you really want to you really want to like open Pandora's box again because anyways but I'm I think this is the right thing I think what he did was illegal I think he paid an enormous price for it and I hope he gets some of this life I think we've all I think
what happened here did what's supposed to happen here did happen yeah I think it was the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese who raised this with President Biden two years ago you know the Australian government has been trying to get him out of this and it was critical to it which is
interesting but one of the things they're saying it was this is from the Wall Street Journal has immediate priorities eating real food playing with his children going swim in the ocean people close to a sandwich says yeah says he he will eventually return to the public spotlight fighting for press
freedom defining his legacy promoting human rights he doesn't strike me as as a shrinking violence at Andrew Wilkie an Australian lawmaker advocated for a Sange's release from prison in London I don't think he's finished writing the Sange story yet so we'll see but it's interesting
that Australia was the sort of did this quiet diplomacy and made it a priority for him which was interesting and he's looking for a pardon now he's he's trying to get a pardon we'll say anyway is it an interesting story definitely full of all kinds of twists and turns it's definitely got
caught up in this sort of Russia U.S misinformation war that goes on almost continually and why he whether he was used in this and that so anyway another story this really interesting Scott I noticed Nvidia stock they were talking about here an aspen has been on a roller coaster this week shares
are headed back up after multiple days of decline which cost the company its titles the world's most valuable company the chip maker now stands is a third most valuable company with a market cap of 3.11 trillion still enormously high Nvidia shares are still up over 160 percent since January
what do you think about this I think a lot of I think a lot of people thought this was coming you you talked about this a lot yeah but since it's rebounded 7 percent it's not it's ups and downs aren't that interesting what's more interesting is that when it loses 13 percent over the course of three days it basically loses the value of master card I mean if you look at the blast zone or ground zero of essentially two trillion dollars in incremental value creation over the last six or 12 months
the knock on effects are so dramatic if this company this company could go down 80 percent and all of a sudden the NASDAQ and the S&P wouldn't be keeping pace with inflation one company is now sort of as goes I mean it it used to be the magnificent seven now it's the magnificent one so Nvidia's now
become the tale that's wagging the dog of almost everything and I'm fascinated by this thing because people just can't imagine the kind of value creation here and what it means when it becomes so huge that in this volatile it is I mean the NASDAQ is effectively the tone for the
American economy right now is going to be directly and indirectly dictated by the volatility of Nvidia even for example 30,000 employees three trillion plus market capster is talking about a hundred million dollars per person I was just I work my ass off got so lucky with L2 sold
it for a hundred sixty million dollars after executing almost what I felt like was perfectly having just an incredibly lucky just finally I did something and I got every alderman's lined up hundred sixty million dollars 80 people so that's two million dollars per employee they've generated
somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and thirty million per employee and I would bet of those thirty thousand ten thousand woke up yeah last week and said I'm worth between ten and fifty million dollars which what does that do to San Francisco real estate prices when all of a sudden what do you
do when you're twenty nine or thirty four you know that we we talked about luxury housing is way up I mean a lot of the tech companies and especially all the at open AI everybody coming back et cetera so when you have ten thousand people probably in their 20s 30s and 40s it all of us
and up ten million dollars in incremental wealth you got to think two thirds of my thinking we're either going to buy a nice home or a better home I mean we're going to buy our first home or upgrade what does that do to housing stock I mean there's just and then what happens if this thing
goes down eighty percent it can in video could decide to press the presidential election if the market is off two percent instead of up fourteen that is a huge talking point for for the Republicans this and video has become that as in video goes so goes the market and the perception of the
American economy so we're we're buying now Scott for people who are on this you still can't do it this is literally it's it's a mean stock in a weird way in a weird I don't know I can pay an scenario where it doubles I can see it getting cut by fifty percent if not eighty percent so
this is what you do in my view you buy espy you buy an index fund because if you buy an index fund every dollar you're buying did you you're buying twenty four cents on the dollar goes to the magnum is in seven so those companies continue to kill it you participate but if the other four
hundred ninety three stocks have their day in the sun and those stocks get cut in half you're still okay so you take some upside off the table but you save your mental health you know you're participating and the thing about these indexes that's so amazing is they are a screening mechanism
for the best companies so who gets kicked out code act gets kicked out sales force gets brought in right so it's the best companies in the world you're investing in and they do the job of balancing and diversifying for you so anyway you want to invest in a video thoughtfully you don't
need to know whether it's going to go up or down buying index fund just buy an index fund good idea anyway we'll see what happens it'll be interesting I think a lot of people were feeling as if it had a Cisco vibe to it here that nothing tech people and that there will be competitors I think
Apple will be involved I think lots of people involved anyway let's get to our first big story the Supreme Court has rejected a GOP led suit the suggested government censored social media and a six three vote the Supreme Court said the plaintiffs lacked standing to sue and upheld the
government's ability to talk to platforms about content moderation again with the standing it's they never really rule on the thing they rule on the standing the case uh Murphy versus Missouri came after Biden officials called on platforms remove vaccine misinformation election fraud claims
a federal judge in Louisiana who initially reviewed the case blocked the White House and several federal agencies from talking to social media companies about removing content that judge is such a dumbass I'm sorry he really is in general is he's got a history of dumbassery um this is interesting
the ruling was limited um and I think they have there's other cases coming up they're going to keep trying to do this um they're using first amendment arguments I think government should absolutely be talking to social media companies and suggesting and I don't think they're under pressure
to take it down because uh any administration asset board but the conservative judges some of them aligned with the liberals uh which I think there's there seems to be a really interesting move of Justice Coney Barrett who wrote the majority opinion Justice Alito had as usual a cranky descent
saying high ranking government officials placed unrelenting pressure on Facebook to spread American free speech hey grandpa he didn't you don't know anything about how the internet go raise a flag to something because that is not what happened here and I don't think even understands online
at all I just find him a cranky old flag raising man anyway go ahead this was absolutely the right decision because this entire thing was framed incorrectly was framed by the far right that we shouldn't allow government to put pressure on private companies to shape their narrative based on
their political objectives or whoever's in power that is a viable argument but that's not what was going on here this was the administration alerting private companies that there might be misinformation on their platforms potentially being fueled by foreign adversaries if proffce
media if we found that on our side the comments if we if if anyone the governor anyone said we have evidence that there's something nefarious going on at your company we're not even going to tell you what to do we're just alerting you right on thank you and that's what this was so to if this
thing had if they decided against the White House then the White House would be prohibited from saying okay your company is subject to misinformation being fueled by a foreign intelligence arm they wouldn't even be allowed to alert them to this so this was framed incorrectly and this is
exactly my view the right decision right but it's standing it they didn't say they should have just said the government should be able to talk in in cases like this they they don't want to they they've tried not to meddle I guess in a way which I probably is right and they use the
standing as the excuse I suppose there there was an earlier ruling like that we're standing was the question they didn't actually say the thing and so it allowed more cases possibly if they take them by the way they don't have to take these cases but it certainly didn't settle the
issue but it certainly slapped these these these these challenges the these lunatics are making have been slapped down by the Supreme Court several times so I don't know if they're going to do anything I just want to note the ruling came in on that Supreme Court abortion case allowing
emergency abortions in Idaho the court dismissed an appeal brought by Idaho officials so a lower court ruling remains an effect where they can do emergency abortions we kind of knew this was coming after the document tied to the ruling was accidentally posted online probably Alito was
in charge of the posting it how how should that's a joke how should the Biden administration be used this ruling in their messaging I mean the court did protect the ability for doctors so they were flying people out of Idaho who are almost dying it was just such a ridiculous emergency
abortions where people have problems or anything else and doctors were low to do anything for fear of getting arrested is so fucked up I'm not going to Idaho we're not going to we're not locating to Sun Valley Scott I think it looks at it to the other lens and I think he says imagine your wife
you're expecting a child you're in the final trimester and something unfortunately and this happens you know unfortunately this happens a lot something goes terribly wrong and you have to rush your wife to the hospital and they say we're sorry but not only is the is you know the baby's
life in danger or maybe quite frankly has absolutely no viability but your wife is your wife's life's in danger we're talking about a situation now where they're going to let a woman agonize in excruciating pain and potentially die despite the fact they know exactly what to do
that's the world we want so this needs to be forcefully in my opinion I do think this is something that Biden should bring up this is the situation while all your billionaire friends are skiing in Sun Valley down the road where a woman is taken in by her panicked husband
and is in agony the baby's gone the baby's gone but we're not going to get to save her life we're going to have a woman within a in sepsis nine months pregnant and we're going to let her die I mean that is what these fucking weirdos represented by this guy 12 feet to my left want to
make me go it's an eight foot it's eight feet it's real close it's just a feet going in the catheters that's 45 catheters away that's 45 47 catheters away um anyways um I think there's some wrangling rassling there's you some rassling I went into my urology the other day because I have it
I don't have to get too graphic but I had a bit of a drip and you said once the last time it sucks I'm like two days ago and you said is she close and I said yeah I said why you said you should go back there I think you're beginning to come anyways moving oh okay eight feet eight feet
does julio leeway drifers really want to have dinner when she's not coming to stop really want to have dinner now jld do not show up do not show up but you get the energy you're he's sign felled in that whole gang of dudes gonna handle you yeah no problem anyway um
quick our week um back to the proportions so one of the things you said um which I thought was very striking and I was listening to it again where you said you should say do you have daughters that that line you had like that that should be his last he should pause and leave an awkward
silence to do you have daughters you should say do you have daughters do you have wives you know do you have you know you know do we want to make up this scenario do we want to live in a country where this will happen and also many of these state judges it's all men making these rulings which
is really repulsive and so many it's all old dudes who don't even want to like okay maybe I have to pay her for bus fare to go to another state to get an abortion I mean it just this is these this is this is film that was cut on the editing table from the handmade style because I thought
even this is too unbelievable well now it's happening folks yeah it's true it's true by the way Trump's I had latest polls he still had anyway we'll say it's it's got to get through this message he has to get through you nervous about tonight by the way we're talking about that no I'm not
watching going to be on a plane I can't watch it me and JLD are not watching we both are like hands over eyes I can't watch it it's too I don't want I can't I even even if Trump fucks up which is my hope of course I just can't it's like it's one of those it's like a horror movie I don't
want to sit until it's over and then I'll watch it in clips and have other people tell me what happened I don't know why just so I don't need the agony or the pain and stuff like that all right Scott let's go in a quick break we come back we'll talk about Volkswagen's big investment
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media labs dot into it dot com to learn more Scott we're back with our second big story Volkswagen Rivian are teaming up for a new joint venture a Volkswagen announced earlier this week that it's investing up to five billion dollars in Rivian
and that the companies will collaborate on software for EVs Rivian CEO says the money for Volkswagen will help the company launch mid-size SUV that will go for about 45k and also go toward completing a factory in Georgia Rivian stocks surge 37% after the deal was announced and once they
well Volkswagen's failed 2% not bad I think it's really interesting a Bloomberg column had the headline Rivian is embraced by needy German sugar daddy that's good what do you think talk about who's getting the most out of partnership and and whether Rivian will finally be able to turn a profit
with this life line I think it's actually this is a great car I have to say I want one I've never wanted like a bigger car and I'm I would buy a mid-size SUV from them no question hands down I think it's a beautiful car I've driven and it it's beautiful drive it's stylish you know I may I may
replace the the key up with if they come out with one and everyone's hoping for lots of competition that are viable and going through that valley of death all these cars go to yeah and the reason it is a great car I I put a deposit down on one four years ago and then about 18 months ago I got
that notice saying it's time to outfit your Rivian I thought well I need to put it off for tears because I planned to take delivery of my foam I think it's foam green Rivian put lay in the back put a mountain bike in the back which I never planned to ride and just roll around downtown
Aspen and everyone will love me okay we like other there's the guy with the great dang who's really who's good good friends with Julia Louis dry fish but I love the car it's beautiful it looks cool I've never actually driven one but here's why it's an amazing car because you pay 80,000
for it and it costs them 120 I mean here's here's the bottom line the automobile business is a shitty low-margin business of massive scale to work and who gets okay so who gets the most here you could argue it's Rivian because in nine and a half months they were out of money and so they
needed a lifeline but this is sort of the at least conceptually the idea of a perfect partnership because what Volkswagen needed some technologies some software they needed it's a cool brand and the bottom line is Rivian needs scale they they until they make five X the number of these and they
have sourcing and they can bring costs down you know these companies automobile companies are actually really well-run companies they've incredibly complex real-bust supply chains it you know Volkswagen I think it's either the first or second largest car company in the world this makes
all the sense in the world but oddly enough what I saw here was a lot of connection to the Washington Post and that is I believe Jeff Bezos I believe unless so I believe the Washington Post Amazon and Rivian any any meeting where any decisions actually get made I think everyone sort of
is waiting for Bezos to speak and then hurrying up to agree with him I think he basically makes the decisions for those three companies or in least strategically and I think just for you know Amazon is Rivian's largest shareholder with a 16% so it's not a control state
not Jeff Bezos okay okay okay one of these things is like the other well he doesn't have the same control over Amazon say Elon has a book I at the end of the day I think what would Jeff Bezos says or strongly recommends probably ends up happening and I think at this point in his life Jeff Bezos
is such a disciplined operator that I think a lot of people in the Washington Post newsroom assume they'll just keep funding democracy in our amazing journalism and I don't think that's how Bezos rolls I think is like unless you're making money or you look great in a thong I want
nothing to do with you I want nothing to do with you and I think he thought with the post this is a great brand I can help I'll put in some people there and maybe we'll get it to break even make a little bit of money it's an important asset I don't think making money for most of his ownership
just until last year last year but go is that right yeah but I don't think he I don't think he's interested in funding things I think he's a very disciplined and I think the same decision he's made at Rivian he's made at the Washington Post and that is unless these things have a path
the profitability in our economically viable I'm not going to be the sugar daddy here no matter how much money I have and I think he's basically signaled that if he had said to the folks at Rivian I love this it's going to be a great independent company we're going to be one
of the winners here fuck you on I don't think they'd be doing this deal but I think you said to him folks find find find a partner here's a thing at the beginning of the 20th century there were a hundred automobile brands by 1949 they were effectively three the big three almost controlled it all
this is a business of scale and even a great car car even a great brand they've executed perfectly like Rivian can't stay as an independent brand it's like magazine publishing the independences can't just can't be independent yeah so I think this is you're right this is Amazon's
important to it they also own zoos by the way I think they fully own zoos which is a which is a taxi robo delivery kind of thing which is a cool it's actually it's also operating in San Francisco different it's a different car goes backwards and forwards it's there's there's there's seats in it
it's different shape it's a different I'm sorry you just described a Ugo what what car does it go forward it backwards and have seats no it no it has a it's like um like a suitcase it looks like a suitcase it's not looks it doesn't look like a car it looks like a I can't explain it there's no
front to it have you seen these two cases that you can ride now and you see these old people riding their sea that's gonna help the obesity up a lot I love that I love a riding suit it is so I think kids on I've seen kids on suitcases oh no no I'm single though these people they're like I can't
walk from date 72 to 73 I got to ride my toomy luggage okay it's just so ridiculous with my diabetes medication it's like okay that's your movie maybe step some more zempick in your carry on okay all right so what's interesting about this you got me off anyways you have to I'll send you
a picture of a zoos anyway they're they're very into this I think it's because of delivery and all kinds of things you know there's all kinds of elements here for for Amazon around these cars that make sense that make somewhat sense to have ownership stakes but it's an interesting idea
that basis calling to shut here but they definitely Rivian needs to stand on its own and there is a valley of death Tesla went through and Rivian has and some didn't get through Fiskers out yes some don't get through yeah Fiskers you know we'll see I think this is a terrific car and I think the
guy who runs it's really interesting you're on year and Q1 sales were only up 2.6 percent it's a flat I mean this market's no longer wrong hopefully it'll start growing again one in five public EV chargers don't work yeah but they they're starting I think this is inevitable I think and I think that they I think this is a great company I really do I I really loved everything they put out but we'll say we'll see you never know come to Aspen come to Aspen I will drive the back of your car
I'll be driving your bike actually I haven't gotten a bike in years anyway um let's get to a listener male question this question comes from Phil let's listen hey Karen Scott I'm a huge fan of the show this is Phil from the great state of Texas I want to challenge Scott's argument that open AI
should just be in the business of making money he argues is the for-profit company that should only focus on returning profits to shareholders and it should not be assigned any social or societal goal to make the world a better place if that's the case how should we look at major news
companies today NBC CNN Fox News the New York Times the Washington Post all of these are for-profit corporations but yet we have also assigned them the task of holding powerful people institutions and businesses accountable if we're being honest that at times directly goes against the business
interests of the company so to part question is that conflict the cause of the current media environment and then are those same dynamics going to play out for the artificial intelligence business if that's the case many people may be disappointed thanks for taking the question again
huge fan of the show okay I was listening to Sam being in a Ray Lesser Hold and I talked to him too and I think I don't think it's going to be precisely a fully for-profit company from what I can tell but I suspect I think it's going to change the way it thinks about itself for sure
and that's a good thing I think that's that's a good thing it may still have the cap the caps that they have and I still think they'll have a much more a very different organization I think he raised the idea of more government people and it's going to be a different kind of profit
company because I think they do recognize that they're accountable in ways that are not like other companies just the way I suppose media companies are but Scott what do you think there are certain organizations that play a really important role in society and media is one of them and I kind of
like what they've done here in the UK they have the BBC in every home has attacks and they do their best to call balls and strikes and then on top of that they have for-profit media companies unfortunately the profit incentive has essentially they found that it's not sex itself it's rage
that sells and the ultimate way to capture people or capture shoulder value through media and through 24 hour news is to inflame people and enrage them and also novelty and conspiracy is just much more entertaining than actual news and that has a social externality so whether we should have
government funded news outlets or some sort of technology that you know I love Reuters I love AP because they just kind of give it to you just the facts ma'am there is a market for people hit it right down the middle the Wall Street Journal is now considered fairly moderate and I think
does well because people see them as calling outside of their editorial page their scene is fairly fairly unfairly they're I gotta say they're doing great under this new editor I mean I like standing child for this new editor is very interesting I think the the harparg where I push back
as a following I totally get the seduction the appeal the vision of taking the most powerful engine in the history of the world outside of kind of love and sex maybe the most powerful engine in the history of the world is the for-profit capitalist organization and if you could leverage
that to make the world a better place on social issues that's really powerful but here's the thing we've been doing it for 40 years we've been selling dolphin you know dolphin free tuna we have been painting iPods red and unfortunately it not only doesn't make much of a dent and it's a bit
of jazz hands as someone who's set on a bunch of public boards they'll take a little bit of money to do some hand waving and they'll talk about dov real beauty from the same people selling embrace your female feminine you know strength oh by the way we also sell axe prey and we're
telling kids to fuck anything and we sell Ben and Jerry's so we can get people diabetes at the end of the day these organizations are so good at making money they should be trusted to do nothing else and unfortunately some of this CSR DEI leverage capitalism hush voices around AI
gives people the illusion that we don't need to pass laws that oh that shell sambricks such a good person that if we just defer to her empathy and concern for the world we don't need to actually pass laws so every company should have good people trying to do the right thing but that doesn't
replace yeah we don't want to put it in their hands right or obviate the need for regulation because here's the thing if you allow general motors to pour mercury into the river and you don't have laws against it they put themselves at a costus advantage by doing the right thing so
they will ultimately make incremental decisions to do the wrong thing because what I have seen across every management team for the most part is they will make a series of incremental decisions that do one thing get them more money that is the incentive structure and by the way is probably
the right incentive structure because that full body contact violence of capitalism creates innovation and shareholder value we just need to tax it and then have a group of elected people decide what to do with that money I agree with you I agree we shouldn't rely on the kindness
of billionaires to be good to our society that is one hunt I said this actually on stage to Brian I was like I really don't want to rely on you or Jeff Bezos or anybody else to do the right thing and so there should be some level of regulation because there's none that said I do think certain
companies and certain areas have a little more responsibility I guess I guess I guess I don't feel the same responsibility for someone who's making you know Ben and Jerry's and I I agree those are just jazz hands and they are they're just sort of like a wave to being good right and that's
fine that's marketing as far as I'm concerned and they can do that and if they're committed like Patagonia yeah that's great that's their that's their brand to it's their marketing but I do think certain companies do have a little more responsibility to have maybe a broader range of people
on their boards that because they have a little bit more impact I don't mean I mean we're very difficult to have government officials say on the board of the New York Times for example but there are certain there are certain industries that matter a little bit more and I think AI probably
is going to be one of them and that they should think hard about having more voices involved in the governance of these things that are that that stakeholders that are much more I would say government would be one of them in these in these that they can elected officials that I'm talking
about elected people or or people that are pointed in some fashion that I think is a good idea for certain industries and I think AI is absolutely one of them especially in its early stages that said it's a for-profit it's going to be a for-profit situation but I think it's I think one of
the negatives about the internet is they felt no responsibility to the body politic and to society whatsoever and in the absence of regulation which as Scott says is the most important thing you're going to have to have some influence on these companies that is real there's real and I
would say that's the board level at the same time it has to be regulation is Scott says sorry Phil but right to your point so open AI has put General Nakasone the head of the NSA I believe that was interesting that's great they should be lauded for it that does not in any way reduce the
need to have legislation that says any AI elevated or algorithmically elevated content removes 230 protection I think that law should be passed I think that is what will actually move the needle here and we again we always defer to okay let's hope they're good people and
they're nice people and they do the right thing and they aren't the culprits for them telling us we care as shell samberg telling us she cares is not the problem the problem is we believed it and when exon or Ford or other CEOs say this we don't believe it we say that's
it's on petroleum that's it we're we're still going to have an EPA we're still going to have a mission standards we're still going to force you to crash test this car and see what happens to kids in the backseat but because we've decided that innovators and young people are billionaires
are so smart and because we no longer have we no longer have religious figures to idolize we needed new new idols and we decided that Steve Jobs and now Elon Musk and Cheryl Samberg and all these people are the closest thing we have to a Jesus Christ and the the only mistake of the
biggest mistake is we believe them we're at fault for not electing people that hold them to the same standards as everybody else and I hate I think a lot of the CR CSR and DI is like I think it's a giant misdirect I think it's nothing but lobbying it's an attempt to stave off regulation
by saying see what good people we are you can trust us see what we don't need that pesky regulation we're not we care yeah I agree I agree yeah yeah that was in fact my message to Sam Alden I said you're getting regulated no no no no no no no matter what you do regulation will
be good for you and I said the same thing to Brian he would he asked me that on stage and I said look great job good job I really don't care and he that fact is though his company is quite regulated because it's in analog there's a lot of regulations around his company compared to other companies
which is interesting and I think they're better for it in that regard but and all the analog digital companies seem to be have have a better you know we don't trust them to regulate themselves in a way which is a good let's look at Airbnb there's been a transfer of wealth from renters
who have found there's a decrease in rental stock which has pushed rents up to travelers and Airbnb if you want to go to Bangkok for six weeks you now have a much broader selection set of opportunities and you don't have to pull into the best western at 200 bucks a night that's
a transfer of wealth it creates an externality and that is a lot of young people have seen rent sky rocket and that is hard so we should elect a group of thoughtful people to say you know what we have taxes there's hotel taxes Airbnb should be subject to the same hotel taxes which they are
and we are in the business of allocating funds as the government has done in Minneapolis to incentivize more housing development because we have a huge problem but expecting but expecting Brian Chesky to do anything but get his shares from 150 to 200 bucks the shareholders are going
to fire him no matter how nice the guy he is and how good he is and how many whales he saves and how many kids in Africa he feeds if he doesn't get that stock from 150 to 200 bucks in the next 24 36 months they're going to decide to fire that wonderful guy and he knows it he's doing his job
we're not doing ours yep that's right that's exactly they're actually a very good example for that that working the way it worked so a great question Phil thank you so much and we appreciate it if you got a question of your own that you'd like the answers send it our way go to nymag.com slash
pivot this is a question for the show we're called 85551 pivot all right it's got one more quick break and we'll be back for your predictions support for this show comes from net suite when your business owner growth can be a great thing
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kidding me come on well I didn't see that one coming but that won't get you to help your business needs what you should really say is something that can help like a good neighbor state farm is there state farm agents are ready to help you with your claim to help you get back in business
on the phone or in person your state farm agent is there to help like a good neighbor state farm is there okay Scott let's hear a delightful prediction yeah you're gonna hate this one um so every year I start to think about every year I make my I do my predictions deck and I roam around the
world making predictions some are right some are wrong but it's a ton of fun and the one that everyone pays attention to is what is the technology of the year and I said the technology of 2023 was going to be AI in 2022 I think I said it was going to be voice or something anyways 2024 I said
the technology year was going to be GLP1 drugs for 2025 I'm not committing to this but I'm just starting to marinate in the data I think the technology of the year is going to be a space axis star link and I am going I am going I wouldn't I like it well it's Elon it's a great company anyways the
the I'm going I'm self-conscious saying this I'm going on a boat in Greece next week and I noticed the first thing I did when I'm looking at the different types of boats is I asked I didn't ask how nice it was how big of a yeah I didn't ask anything I'm like does it have starlink and I had
one of those moments when I was on a plane and I pulled up the wireless networks and said starlink and I clicked on it and my son immediately I saw my son's face on my phone and it was a FaceTime and you know how it's occasionally on your descent or a cent you do get the call but you
click on it and it doesn't connect it I can't do that I clicked connect and he was crystal clear perfect boats maritime hotels the thing is the thing literally is a 10x better product at a lower price and they just they just introduced a smaller one right they just a
Yeah and you want to talk about we know it's a good idea we know they've got product market fit so the question is well what's sustainable here I mean he just it's going to take somebody I don't care how much money someone throws at this to try and compete with it it is not easy to get
satellites into space can can I do a tiny edit to you let's let's give credit where credit is to this is about Gwen shot well who is CEO she was actually here I didn't get to see her but this is a really effective CEO who's been running this company creating good government relations
trying very hard to to mitigate the screaming fits that he has all the time I don't deny that he's was early press unit about this stuff he talked about it early he's been involved in early in the space thing but he this is a this is a company that again it just was on the secondary
market I think it was I think it's $211 billion dollar value right now on the second on the market because it's a private company I would give enormous credit to Gwen shot well you set that repeatedly I've said it repeatedly and I in this case you know I do think she I don't think
she even tolerates I think she supports him unnecessarily that it's a little embarrassing the excuses she makes for his behavior but that's her that's her cross to bear I let me ask you something about Gwen you know I don't is it true that I don't know her she won't see me no well yeah but she's
smart the general rule at any Elon company is there's only one person allowed to get near a mic I saw an email was she wrote to someone she goes I'd love to talk to her or something like that I would talk to no one's allowed to get any attention but Elon that well Elon's supposed to talk to
like it was really interesting I was like wow that's weird I think she's accomplished but just a quick question because you know the company and her better not is it true that on your 10-year anniversary at SpaceX you don't get a gold watch you get a quintuplets insemination it's right
you just said a baby with another person from Nurel Enke you know it there's there are troubling stories of his behavior I think it was oh you think no about him yeah they're not just the ones who agree to have his baby that's I don't know what to say about that I just it's weird I guess
consensual baby having it work it seems a little fun I guess but it's it's not good it's not a great it's not a great look I can tell you that I was on the board of the company and it's cool baby having babies with an employee I'd be like okay can you is there any way you can
inseminate someone who doesn't work here like yeah right exactly it's weird it's weird but I think she is I want like to shine light on her I'm sorry just a lot of this is her they innovate in the size they way ahead of people I don't think people aren't gonna catch up and there are some other
options happening I do know that and but I think that he this is a this is a other options I mean like a turkey based her oh wait no here's a home no here's a no I'm not talking about that this is a home run here's the here's the the neck the thing that is problematic if Trump does not win I suspect
they're gonna look into his national security situation like whether he deserves the clearance now that said he'll still be the owner and he'll be he'll get enormous amount of money from this so he'll be fine either way but it could get sucked up into his if he would just shut up and run
good companies it would be probably good for his shareholders eventually and himself but he won't so but again she she yeah I would agree with you on this one I would agree with you I think they're way ahead and and space is such an important frontier but there are not in this case there
are national security implications and I think he's got I I know at least they're questioning those along with his other probably problems under another Biden administration or on Tesla and SEC and all kinds of stuff so but I think it scares her good work for sure it's about to become
the ultimate ingredient brand and that is every plane every boat every hotel you stand people are gonna start asking do you have Starlink yeah what was the previous one probably what was the company that did a lot of that stuff Intel sat Intel sat yeah yeah the one where they had a
picture of someone on Everest calling and I would always be like what is he saying give me the fuck off here or this was a mistake yeah it's called here yeah with the trust yes Intel sat combines the worlds are just satellite background with the terrestrial now we can able
customers to drive revenue increased range eight Pakistani Sherpas have have died getting me up here but it was worth it honey take a picture right yeah Intel sat I think it was multinational anyway I think you're right that's a really good that's interesting I wonder if you'll change
that that prediction over time I don't know other thing will come out I don't know it'll be interesting good choice I like it okay see I agree with you see or surprise by that that's because I was I had dinner with Julie's driver since she's made me a nicer person actually you know
an astonishingly famous person to be so the lack of celebrity and arrogant polite nice to people not genuine is real it's hard to pull off when you're that famous and I was really someone impressed I was really impressed I you know I think it's it's kind of a testament to her
character anyway that's the show we'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot can you read us out today show is produced by Larry name and Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin earning entertainer this episode thanks also to Joe Bros milciverio nishat cura is box media is executive producer of audio make
sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts thanks for listening to pivot from New York magazine box media you can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business just a quick media shout out
the bad I would argue the crispest writing of any show in the last decade V if you've been enjoying this here's just one more thing before you go from New York magazine I'm Corey seka recently our writer Rebecca Tracer noticed something republican and right wing
women have been flourishing and prospering in the last year from marjorie Taylor green to christie gnome their tough their chaotic and they tend to have a really great teeth they're also swirling in the orbit of donald trump as he seeks to seize the country with an iron fist this fall
Rebecca wondered is this empowerment or are they just trump's handmaidens a broader end to explain to all of us what's going on here hello Corey I'm going to start asking really boring questions here's one which of the many exciting recent dust-ups incited you to want to talk to and
write about right wing women politicians the first time I floated a version of this was after Katy Brit's post state of the union but I can't say that at that point I thought like I want to do a whole scope of republican women I was just really into Katy Brit because it was very old
school in certain ways like the kitchen that like it was very white suburban middle class mommy presentation but it was also like gothic horror you know there's blood of the patriots right here in my kitchen with an apple but it wasn't enough I wasn't going to write a whole piece about Katy
Brit it might have been the infomercial that South Dakota governor christie gnome cut for the dental work she'd had done where I was like what is happening with the public women right like so christie gnome did sort of a physical self-renovation to make herself either more palatable or more
powerful I'm not sure when she began she had a very no nonsense boxy polo cs killerie sometimes haircut that like sort of choppy haircut and then in recent years since she's become a little bit of a right wing star one of the things she's done is really change her look now Donald Trump
is very open about how he feels about women how he evaluates women and gnome has clearly remade herself into into somebody who looks like somebody Donald Trump has expressed physical appreciation for so part of my question this piece is what is political power mean if you conform
to those kinds of aesthetic standards but then in some way that winds up diminishing the respect that the people who set those standards have for you your point is a great one that Trump hangs over a lot of this both they're the both soliciting him for a big job at the same time as they know
he has standards but also the same time Trump's big innovation was like performances power and they're enacting their own narratives they've all become trumpian in their own weird way yeah and I have to tell you that is very frustrating for me because I write about politics and I hate
the thing where everything is about Trump I always want to make it not about Trump but writing about these women really challenged that conviction in me because it is clear that at least for some of them so many of the new behaviors they're enacting are in response to Trump are about the
single demand in the Republican Party right now which is showing him loyalty, fealty to this guy like all these people vantina goma as laurelumer they're enjoying the fruits of choice in career and motherhood like uh does this mean feminism one huh well this is what's so dystopian and scary
about their project is that they're all doing these things which are really fascinating right marjorie tailer greens lifting weights in a video and not behaving classically jimur and all of this sense of empowerment is absolutely what feminism gave to women okay so great here is it success
but also the party and the ideology that these women are using these feminist gains to promote is openly dedicated to the rolling back of those feminist gains that's Rebecca tracer you can read her work on republican women and more in your home in our glorious print magazine and it nymag.com slash lineup