Support for this episode comes from SAS. SAS is going all in on AI to help the world get more done with data. See for yourself in Las Vegas April 16-19 at SAS Innovate, the data and AI experience for everyone and every role from top executives to data scientists, engineers, analysts, and more. I'll be there leading a panel discussion about the importance of responsible AI. It's just one of the many sessions that will highlight the massive potential of AI.
Visit innovate.sas.com and use the code CARA to save $100 on registration. I'll see you there. Support for Pivot comes from Clavio. There are plenty of AI tools out there to help your marketing strategy, but you'd be hard-pressed to find one built like Clavio. Clavio AI guides you with predictive insights so you can more accurately see what your customers want and when they want it.
It uses both real-time and historical data and can make it all make sense for you. That way you can say goodbye to tedious tasks and work smarter. You can join brands including Every Man Jack, who've optimized their marketing strategy and driven more revenue with Clavio AI. Clavio Power's smarter digital relationships. Visit clavio.com slash Vox to learn more. That's KLAViYO.com slash Vox. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.
And I'm Scott Galilee. Scott, I don't even know what day this is. I'm in Seattle now. You're in Seattle. Yeah, I was in LA the other day. And how was LA? Fantastic. I didn't have that with Ted Sarandos, who was very funny and it was a packed house. Ted? Yeah, your friend Ted. Last night I had Alex Stamos in Seattle. It was another packed house. Wow. Alex Stamos was in Seattle. No, we came up to do it. We came up. We flew him up.
Did you notice how hot the Uber driver's R&L I? I mean, it's just, it's reason just to go to LA. No, I had, I had music. I had limousine drive. Oh, it was Mill U. Limbo drivers. What is it, prom? I have a burdo. He was lovely. He was very nice. He seemed like an older man. And then I'm going to San Francisco to do three events. One with your home. Yes, I'm doing one with Sam Altman, who seems ready to, ready to play.
I think he's going to say a lot. One tonight with Gavin Newsom, the handsome Gavin Newsom. Governor Newsom? Or as I like to call him president, president handsome, and then Reed Hoffman is going to be good. Do I tell you my story about the first time I met Governor Newsom? No, when was it? I'm going to take a moment before you finish about half the people were signing books. Everyone mentions you to me, everyone, like you're my husband. Oh, good. Not necessarily a good way though, right?
I was surprised. They liked the apology toward the last show. They like you. They really like you. In my salad field. Not everybody does. The lesbians are still on the fence about you. I'll be honest. They're like Scott. Really? You got to smack them some more. Yeah, a lot of the lesbians are. Well, I just, they should know that's my favorite porn. See, now you're doing it. At one point, I owned a Subaru, and I'm thinking about a German shepherd.
Boom, boom. Stereotypes. Is that going to help me? There was a parent. A lot of parents let the kids listen to pivot, and they were like, Scott's got to pull that back. And I said, okay. Pull it back. Just the profanity. The dirty Joe. But they let their kids watch. And I told them their kids should learn early, I guess. I don't know. Okay. Something tells me if their kids old enough to listen to and tolerate pivot, they have other means and channels of getting profanity.
Yeah, these are like four. I was several or four and six. Yeah, I got a lot of stuff from kids. But anyways, and I know. All right. Tell me about this Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom. Oh, sorry. Being the narcissist I am, and I got out of business school, and I had a lot of, a decent amount of early momentum and success with my first company. And I thought, well, of course, I should, you know, I should go on to elected office. And I thought the first thing I'm going to do
is I'm going to run for a supervisor in San Francisco. And so I started going to supervise our meetings or, you know, board of supervisors meetings. And the first. I don't know this. Have you told me the story? Yeah, but our viewership has grown so much because of my lesbian and dick jokes that most of people have not heard it. All right. Good. I haven't heard. So then supervisor Newsom came down and my friend knew him and we met him.
And first off, you just sit there, you just sit there talking to the guy. And you can't, you can barely hear what he's saying. You're sort of like, I see him moving his mouth and I know he's saying something. But Jesus, what moisturizer does he is? But anyway, so I was thinking about running for a supervisor. And I took my friend who was going to, you know, help me with the campaign who's super politically savvy, understood everything about.
And we sat there and we met and talked to supervisor Newsom for like, you know, 10, 20 minutes. And he walked away. My friend goes, you have no chance. He's like, look at that guy. Look at you. You have no chance. So that was the beginning and the end of my, my run for elected office was meeting Gavin Newsom and realizing if that's what it takes to be a supervisor in San Francisco, I have no chance. It is. It's sort of natural selection,
isn't it? 100%. It makes sense. Wow. Yeah. It makes sense. He should have 300 kids. I should get a vast act of that. That's a really interesting story about you. Yeah. I was thinking about running for a supervisor and you were, you were thinking about running for mayor. I was. And then I spoke to a bunch of people and I actually had more kids. That really is what I might have done it. Had I not met
Amanda and had more kids, I still might have done it. Right now, I kind of think, I think I'm thinking a lot about public office, not for me, but how we're doing things. There's a lot to talk about because of super Tuesday, a lot of news get to an AI and open AI sharing more of its past with Elon, which is a very troubled past and a competition, which we knew about. And the competition is heating up with new contenders in the AI race. But first, Disney's proxy fight is nearing an end.
Nelson Peltz's trium partners has unveiled its case for changes of the company, the 133-page report detailed triumas plans, including bundling, streaming service with other media companies, which he's kind of doing with this forcing focus more on ESPN plus, then full ESPN, direct consumer service and other thing he's doing. Merge Hulu and Disney plus and evaluate long-term, by Billy Poulouse live TV service. Okay, I mean, that's not it's occurred to many.
Right size, the studio business and linear TV networks again, what he's doing. Disney's next shareholder meeting is on April 3rd. You know, I know you love this, Nelson Peltz, but this is kind of weak saw. I thought any thoughts any thoughts. Okay, I mean, defensive, I don't live Nelson, Nelson Peltz. I love governance and I love data. And the data is of following, Cara.
Disney has underperformed and the executives have overpaid themselves. And while I realize that Bob Iger is going to win any type of popularity contest against Nelson Peltz, he's just infinitely more likeable, infinitely more handsome. The reality is Bob totally fucked up his succession planning. He's beginning to look like someone who anyone who gets near the iron throne, he shoots in the head. You know, he had his hand-picked advisor. He then his hand-picked successor. He then
turned up. Well, justifiably, justifiably now. And now I'm going to put you in. What was the justification? The guy wasn't right. If you talk to anyone, Disney, he was doing all kinds of mistakes, but go ahead. Go ahead. He would shot him in the head. Okay, but let's just ignore the personalities and look at the data. The S&P is up 84% in the last five years. Netflix, you know, up 69%, Disney's down 1%, and yet they continue to pay themselves too much money. And the board right
now owns almost no stock. So for an activist, it's not a popularity contest. Someone who shows up and accurately looks at this company and says, you have underperformed on every metric, not on how handsome you are, not on how likeable you are. But on every single metric, you have underperformed. Meanwhile, you figured out a way to pay yourself a lot of money. So I am, I acknowledge we can agree that this stock has underperformed and there is value to be unlocked and realized here. And in
exchange for buying 800 million dollars with a stock, I deserve a seat at the table. That is a reasonable argument. Okay, I'm asking you about this. Do you think you'll get it? The problem is these guys all have enormous egos. And you can bet that Bob Eiger is now spending between minimum two and maybe 10 to 20 hours a week. He now sees this as a proxy for his, it's win-lose now. And rather than these guys sitting down and saying, okay, you want two seats, I'll give you one.
Let's stop spending shareholder money. Let's stop the sword fighting with our dicks. You own 800 million dollars with a stock and the notion that somehow Nelson is going to get on the board and force the company into a new direction is just ridiculous. I've been on boards where one or two people disagree with the rest and you just put them in a corner and ignore them. He wouldn't be able to control that much. The only thing that happens when you put him on the board
is he has to shut the fuck up because now he's on the board. And he's going to realize that they are probably trying their best. He will have some influence. Nelson has a track record of adding shareholder value. He has done well. So instead of wasting shareholder money, instead of acknowledging that your report card here is likable as you are, as popular as you are, has not been great. Stop wasting energy, stop the ego, settle with them, offer them one seat and move on.
I don't know if he's going to do that. I'll be honest. Now, oddly from one side, Musk is there trying to poke at him too, you know, with lawsuits, backing lawsuits like for Gina Carano. Of course he is. He's met with Peltz, which would make sense for Peltz to do. What do you imagine is going to happen here? This is interesting. He was at a Morgan Stanley conference. He said, this campaign is in a way designed to distract us, take our eye off the ball that we were
talked about because he had done a bunch of things. He announced the investment in Epic Games, Moana sequel, the deal of bring Taylor source Euras. They talked about Wolverine, the new Deadpool movie, which they think is going to be big. But he says, it's that simple and I'm working really hard not let us distract me because when I get distracted, everyone who works from you gets distracted and that's not a good thing. By the way, they have some movies coming out. They have the upcoming
King to the plan of the apes. Inside out they have Moana, Deadpool and Wolverine. This is just in the movie department. But they've been, you know, the Marvel universe is getting a little tired, of course, which he acknowledged. You just let him on. Just give it up and let him on the board. That's it. Okay, first off, they talk about movies. This isn't really a movie business. This is a park's business strategically in terms of its multi, in terms of EBITDA, it's a park's business,
in terms of its multiple on that EBITDA. It's about what happens with their IP and specifically what happens or doesn't happen with streaming. So they can talk about Moana. That's just a side show to try and get media on their side. What he should do is very simple. He should get, could take Nelson out to dinner, fly down, show him some respect or, you know, kiss his ass. These guys appeal to their ego. Don't get your ego fired up. Tim could handle the Carl icon
perfectly. He went to Carl and said, okay, Carl, what are you thinking? You're a genius, Carl, and Carl said there should be a buyback. And you know what, Tim cooked it. He did a big dividend as a nod to Carl icon. And then all of a sudden Carl icon thought, I'm important. He did what I wanted to and he went away. Instead, you want to talk about his defense or his correct
accusation to the Irishman. Is this will be a distraction? Well, guess what, Bob? You're now making it a distraction and all caps because you're refusing to settle with this guy and just move on. You know, I think I think that the experience of GE, what happened to GE, I think they look at this guy and they think curtains, right? Because this guy is not. They do what Carl and the smile crocodile, they absolutely do. So you and I presented a board together and the dynamic
is the following. No one person can shape the strategy. I mean, a powerful board member can absolutely start a movement to unseat the CEO. And at the end of the day, I think this is what this is about is Igar is worried that Peltz is going to be effective lobbying the other board members kind of off camera and start playing golf with them and start a movement against Igar. But the notion that the notion that Peltz is just going to show up and start dictating strategy from the
board level, you can't do that. It's just not that easy. And all you if you look at some of the other people, including the directors, the very solid directors that Igar has appointed the board recently, they're not scared of Nelson Peltz. They're not going to say, Oh, Nelson thinks we should cut costs. They're like James Gorman isn't scared fucking Nelson Peltz. So fine, come on in,
the water is fine. We're absolutely open to your ideas. And by the way, once we put you on the board, you have to stop shit posting us in the public and we get to stop spending tens of millions of dollars and all of Bob's time talking to reporters about non business operating issues. It's time for them both to put on their fucking big boy pants and just get together because it's men worth a ton of money. And this has become about win lose and ego. Anyway, I'm sorry, I don't know if
you're branding right now. What do you think? I would agree. I would agree. Peltz should not have appeared with musk and have done stuff like that. I mean, it just everybody's doing things. That's stupid. That was stupid at the thing. And obviously that antagonizes our why on earth would Peltz do that? Was especially after the fuck you bomb saying, you know, anyway, Tom, anyway, we'll see what happens.
Boys, let's get it together for the love of Moana, the consumer financial protection bureau will now cap credit card fees at eight dollars down from average of $32. The bureau estimates a new rule say families more than 10 billion. The move as part of a push by the Biden administration to eliminate junk fees. This is something I've been doing for a while. And also it's good for election year as you as credit card debt reaches a record 1.1 trillion. The financial industry is
worn the rule will hurt consumers by encouraging late payments. And the chamber of commerce says it will file lawsuit against the bureau for misguided regulation. You know, Biden's going after food manufacturers for continued high cost despite inflation coming down. And and this is another thing. They've been working on this to be fair. This is something he's talked about. A lot of people have talked about before. And they can be owners of these fees. You Sury has even what do you think about
this? I'm up to minds on the whole I like it because I think I'm writing a book on how to establish financial security credit cards are mandatious. And the problem is these hidden fees and because our nation lacks because the nation or the part of the nation that unfortunately becomes most addicted to credit cards and revolving credit oftentimes is not the most financially literate. They just don't realize how mandatious and damaging slowly. The wonderful thing about investing slowly over time
or even investing in relationships is a compounds. If you can manage to save $100 a week in your 20s and then you know $1,000 a week if you start making real money in your 30s and 40s, you're going to wake up someday and you're just going to be just overwhelmingly shocked in a good way about how much your money has compounded and what great financial security going to at the same time.
If you think, oh wait, 18% and a late fee, well it's only 18% and I'll pay it off. You don't realize you're putting yourself on an inexorable spiral into just financial disaster a whole that you will never be able to dig out of. Yeah, thank you, Susie Orman. Go ahead. The government does act paternalistic. At the same time, if it's a competitive market and there's a lot of different players, they should have the right to price their products, including late fees. On this stuff though,
it's like payday loans. I do think that at the end of the day, it does tend to prey most on lower income households or people with a revolving debt and I do think there should probably be caps. So in some I'm in favor of this. Yeah, I think it's a good political move too. I mean, including on the food manufacturers, I spend, you know, keeping prices high. Anyway, I agree. This is a good thing with consumers and I don't need the financial companies to say that it will encourage
lay payments, none of their business. They like that anyway. Employers are also dialing back coverage of, speaking of saving money, clearly dialing back coverage of weight loss drugs because of high cost. A recent Wall Street Journal article highlighted the restrictions and requirements, companies are beginning to place on drugs like Wigovie. Such as high BMI requirement, requirement to lose 5% of body weight in three months or a $20,000 cap on coverage. All kinds of
things. There's an interesting article. Weight loss drugs caused an 8.4% jump in employer pharmacy benefit costs last year. Some of the employers acknowledge that it also saved on other things, including, you know, treatments and weight issues that, you know, it's kind of interesting where they have to figure out where the costs are. Cost of ozemic are over 5 times more expense in the US than other countries, of course, because this is the US of A.
So I think it's, I think this is a thing that should be made widely available. Of course, that's 5 times more expensive here because they can charge it. No negotiations with these pharmaceutical companies in this country to make it cheaper. Probably, I have probably a lot of employers like this might be a good thing for us for people to lose weight. Thoughts? I mean, there's a lot here because I was actually at a museum thing last night on event. And this
kid I know, super impressive young man said, I have an idea for a business. I'm just bringing ozemic. I can buy a $440 in Europe, bring it into the US. And I like the idea of a Dallas Buyers Club, where you just have tons of people bringing G.O.P. one drugs because I do believe, like this is the issue. In the short run, G.O.P. one drugs are reaching absolutely the wrong people. This is because of their pricing and a lack of information about them. This is who they're reaching is ladies
have launched looking to lose 10 or 15 pounds, or it's not a health issue. Oh, it's also meant. Like so many tech, all the tech brothers are on it. You can tell. It's really funny. Oh, I don't doubt that, but I, I'd be curious to know what the gender ratio is. Anyways, but you're, let, let, I would draw the comment rich people. I think that's probably a
more fair more accurate. Anyways, this drug, if you can justify, in my view, the massive investment in government subsidies, we made an operation warp speed, which to be fair, I think President Trump got right. And basically saying we are not going to let costs get in the way of anyone taking a vaccine, a COVID vaccine. This is a slow moving, but much more deadly pandemic. Obesity kills a lot more people cardiac issues, cardiac diabetes, I mean depression. This is,
this is a vaccine, in my opinion, which has the same urgency as COVID. So I believe the government should get involved after having the ability to negotiate these things down to the same price that everyone else pays. And I believe this is something that over the long term, given that there are $1.7 trillion per year, per year, about 7% of our GDP is spent on obesity-related illnesses
and costs. This is a wonderful investment for the government to make. To say anybody with a BMI above pick a number, we're going to pay for this or we're going to give you a 90% rebate on it after we negotiate with these people to get the same prices that France and Israel is getting. It is amazing. Five times the cost of Europe, that's nuts. It's so ridiculous. Mark Cuban get in here.
Yeah, let me not be an ad for OZEFIC right now, although they do nice ads all over cable, is that they do need to do more studies here because it doesn't work for everybody. But it certainly, I was just struck by the price differential. It's kind of ridiculous on some level. And then that lets companies dial back on it and then they dial forward on all the diabetes industrial complex, which exists 100%. And it's just one last comment on the OZEFIC. What if GOP1
drugs had been available five years earlier? And the government had a program to get them to people whose health was dramatically diminished by their obesity. How many tens or hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved during the pandemic? So GOP1 drugs, I believe, had they come on the scene five years earlier and had more penetration? We probably would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. We'll see. And I do think there should be many more studies about works.
The government should think really hard about what should be one of the biggest issues. When people made fun of Michelle Obama, I remember when she was doing exercise, I was like, this is exactly what we should be. The government should be paternalistic about speaking paternalistic. Anyway, let's get to our first big story. The Biden front pre-match is getting closer. In fact, it's here. President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump both dominated the respective
Super Tuesday primary status surprise. And caucuses, a lot of their responses, oh well, I guess this is the story. We have few surprises. Nikki Haley winning Vermont primary in businessmen named Jason Palmer, beating Biden and American Samoa. Okay. But after hanging, I'm sure that's the lead of the New York Times story. But after hanging on longer than any GOP candidate, Nikki Haley finally threw in the talent suspended her campaign on Wednesday. Let's listen to a little of her speech.
I said I wanted Americans to have their voices heard. I have done that. I have no regrets. And although I will no longer be a candidate, I will not stop using my voice for the things I believe in. She got a substantive amount of voters on her side. But not enough, obviously. But there weren't a lot of Haley voters, but there weren't nothing. So where do you think those voters go? She's not endorsed Trump and encouraged him to earn the support of the Republicans and Independents who
backed her. He has said he doesn't want them in the party very explicitly. He did sort of a carry-lake. We don't need no John McCain people here. And she's trying to wildly pull that back. And of course the McCain's are having nothing to do with it. What do you think about what was happening? It sort of happened exactly. And they did a lot of exit polling. Nobody likes this choice. Although Trump supporters don't care that he's a criminal or he's his criminal indictments. Biden's voters are
concerned. They're not happy about it. The Trump supporters are happy, but there's a lot of Republicans who aren't happy. Any takeaways? Any takeaways whatsoever? You sort of alluded to this last week. The race and the nominees aren't who any of us are you know, perfect son on the menu here. Now we just have to get to the good work of getting president Biden reelected. The governor Haley, I think she's raised her national profile. I
thought she fought a good fight. She's alienated probably some an element of the Republican party that probably she was never going to appeal to. And I do think there's something about the Democrats and everyone needing to get focused on not the lawsuits, not with ballots. He's on not not the insurrection and let that play out in the courts. But we need to get focused on just getting president by more votes. And but look, I like governor Haley. I think she fought a good fight. And I quite
frankly, I just wish her the best. That's all I have. What do you what do you think? I just think I was interesting because a lot of people have come into talking about a lot of was I can't believe these people still support Trump after all the things he says. And I said, you know what? I got to tell you we got to stop being shocked by this. They just do. So we're not going to change them. They're in the cult. And I think it is a cult. It's a cult personality for sure. I was like, that's
enough. Stop not believing it. They're doing it. They're going to they don't care. This guy could do whatever he wants. They don't care that he says crazy things. They don't care that he says racist things. They are going to vote them. And I think the best example, you know, and they are these particular people, not everyone. And there's a whole bunch of disgruntled Republicans not knowing what to do now. But that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. This is this is the fight we have. You know,
when I read a lot of, you know, liberals on social media, they're just like indignant. And I was like, it's what it is. What do you want? I don't know what to tell you. My mother is my mother. I can't get mad about any more. But the Republicans are doing on the other side as being far too confident for people who lose all the time. Far too confident. And they lose constantly on all kinds of measures
over the past couple of years. And that's something that I think is a real Achilles heel for these people. Donald Trump projects victory and he loses all the time on key issues in terms of abortion stuff, all kinds of places. I think the making North Carolina's Republican gubernatorial primary that he backed this guy who makes Hitler quoting candidate, basically is what he is. He's facing a Democrat in North Carolina who often elect Democratic governors. This guy, Mark Robinson, who's just
a terrible person. This is the kind of thing they're doing that is so astonishingly stupid. This is a great time from to pivot to the center. And instead they're putting up things that's going to be Westmore all over again in what happened in Maryland. I just feel like there's far too confident for people who lose quite a bit. And that's I think a mistake. Yeah. The thing I'm taking about, they're all of this, I found sort of fun ain't it was on.
The Daily Show said, when someone's not a fascist, they're now called a moderate. And it's oh, I don't support an insurrectionist. All of a sudden they're like, our bars become so low. It's like in the comedian reference, Liz Cheney, who never met a war her or father didn't like or people. And just to be sure on Governor Haley, you know, all of a sudden I really like
Governor Haley. I really like Senator Romney. Governor Haley claims that the reason the reason that so many young girls are so depressed is because of their they don't know which bathroom to go into or the transgender meant, you know, boys going through transition. Nonsense. Come on. Really? I agree. I was saying someone was asking me about tech people and I was like, well, I kind of hear in Seattle and I was like, Steve Balmer and I had a lot of wrangling and I said,
but I kind of like him now. He's going to do things that I said, he's like, my Liz Cheney. I don't know what to say. I just all the bars lowered. The bars lowered for all of us. The bars so yeah, because of musk over there. So I'm like, sure, I like Balmer. Sure, I like Gates, you know, more. But it was it was interesting. Speaking of which it was there was a joke that it was super Tuesday Taylor's version. Taylor Swift took down Instagram, sweet encouraging her 282
million followers to vote. She's done this before and it had a lot of impact. But it was a nonpartisan thing. She didn't include endorsements. She's registered vote in Tennessee and before she's been very anti-Marsha Blackburn there, etc. So she has come out on sides of things. She also endorsed Biden in 2020 for those who don't know. I don't know what she'll do. I'm encouraging to vote is a great thing and then she has impact. I'm not sure she will do anything yet. We'll see or she'll wait.
Someone who is making an endorsement in the presidential race, Mark Cuban, he told Bloomberg that he'll be voting for Biden in November. Cuban also made it clear that Biden's age is not a concern saying if they were having his last week and it was him versus Trump and he was being given last rights, I was still vote for Joe Biden. I think he likes some of the stuff he's done. I thought he was effective. I'm going to be talking to Mark in a few days in Austin. What do you think about
these two things? Both influential people among a certain group of people and not just the elite, very popular, both very popular people. Yeah, I look, we both like Mark a lot. I think it makes sense for Mark to come out with a specific endorsement. I think there's a difference in something I didn't learn to later in my career. There's a huge difference between being right and being effective. If I were coaching Taylor Swift and I said, what's your objective here? She might say
quite frankly, and I believe this is true. My objective is for Biden to win or more specifically for President Trump to lose. I would say, okay, everyone's surrounding you, everyone of your friends is going to say you're right. But now the question is how can you be effective? I think the way that Taylor Swift becomes most effective is if she never uses the words Trump or Biden and just focuses on turning out the youth vote because the younger you go, generally speaking, the more blue
you go. If she comes across as someone just endorsing, get out the vote. She appeals to everybody. It's just a hard, that's a hard thing to criticize. I think she should endorse policies and it's clear who has them, like abortion, right? I think she said it a little bit. She said, vote on the topics that are important to you. I think she should tell people what the topics that are important to her are. It points to Biden, right? Signs point to Biden, you kind of thing. So I think she
should be more specific about we believe in law, we believe in women's rights. She's talked about it in Miss De Maricana. He attacked people. He's sexual harasser. I think she should talk about, it's draw a very bright line of who she's actually voting for with that necessarily saying it. Because I think when she says policies, we need abortion rights. She believes in it. And I don't think, I don't think that's polarizing it. People know she said it before dozens of times. So just
to underscore it, vote. And by the way, I'm voting for people who do this. People, I like people who do this and not say it specifically. In Mark's case, I think it's correct. He's also positioning himself in a way. It's political. It's political, but he believes it to it. I don't think it's it's not sincere. I see her point as a young woman, as a young woman to advocate for and to educate young women that right your parents and you probably thought you had, it's being chipped
away at. And this is real. This is real. I can understand and I see the point. I'm going to acknowledge the point. However, I'm thinking processing this real time. I think the moment she goes political, a certain percentage of people just turn on her or write her off or put up a screen. I think she could probably get another three, five or 10 million young people to turn out. Just by being someone that's like pro-America, pro-democracy, get out, register to vote,
and never even venture into political waters, so to speak. And I think that would end up having a more positive impact on Biden's price, prospector being elected. Oh, maybe. I don't know. I think when I get it, she didn't win on the martial black burn thing, but she, I don't think she's going to, if you watch Miss Americana, there's a scene with her parents that is really interesting. And she's quite passionate about, especially women's rights.
And that's her brand and she should stick to it. People expected her. She's two milk toasty. People will be like Taylor. What do you have to lose? And I think it all hurt her more. And I think she should go on. It's not much of a limb for her to go out. She's gone on it. And she talks about it almost. And she writes about it. So we'll see what she does. But she's going to be effective and important, I think. And she's coming to the US, by the way. She's announced
more Jets in the US. So she'll continue to have a cultural effect. You know what I'm doing August 31st? Just back to me. Back to me. I met this totally cool guy. He and I have become friendly. And his partner is somehow dialed into the Adele universe. And we're going to go see Adele and Munich on August 31st. Boom. That's how the dog rolls. Isn't that nice? That's really nice. That's just before your birthday. By the way, I bought my plane tickets to come to your
birthday. Oh really? Yeah. I'm coming. I'm coming. Going right to Edinburgh. I want you to send a card. You're flying straight into Edinburgh. I am from DC. We have we got it. We got to go fast because we got to get back to the kids. But we are coming and Amanda's parents. Thank you so much. And you're not going to spend any time before or after in Scotland. You're not. I might, but Amanda kept Amanda can't because you know, we've little small children. I pulled that trick
for you. Did you invent a business reason why I have to stay? I'm on to you. Trust me. Welcome to manhood. Welcome to being a husband. And no, no, for the book for the book. Amanda is, let me just say my wonderful wife and a little ad for my wonderful wife. She's taking care of the kids while I'm on this book tour. She's been wonderful. You're learning. She's kudos. I'm just, no, she's great. She's really amazing. And she's a big job. Like she's a big editor at the
washabout. She is. She is fantastic. Thank you. I'm just, no, it's not a man. She's amazing. We're it's called a partnership. Scott. I know. I got it. I understand as I could, as we struggle, I'll tell you one thing people said is Scott struggles to be a partner. I know we're working on it. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. You cynical fuck. We got to keep going. We got things to do. We come back. Open air is saying about Elon, not nice things and take a listener mail question
about Siri. Support for pivot comes from at last year. At last year in software, including Jira, Confluence, and Trello help power the collaboration for teams to accomplish what would otherwise be impossible alone. Because individually, we're great, but together, we're so much better. That's why millions of teams around the world, including 75% of the Fortune 500, trust at last year in software for everything from space exploration and green energy to delivering pizzas and podcasts.
Whether your team of two, 200 or two million, or whether your team is around the corner, or on another continent altogether, at last year software is built to help keep you all in the same page from start to finish. That way, every one of your teams from engineering and IT to marketing HR and legal can stay connected and moving together as one towards shared, company-wide goals. Learn how to unleash the potential of your team at Atlassian.com. That's ATLA double S-I-A-N dot com. Atlassian.
Support for pivot comes from Clavio. When you're marketing your business, there's a ton of data to keep track of, and you need the right tool to help you make sense of it all. For that, you might want Clavio in your arsenal. Clavio helps brands get smarter with their marketing. Their AI is built differently than anyone else. It combines a ton of real-time and historical customer data points for you in full detail and makes sense of it all for you. It guides you with predictive analytics,
so when you use Clavio AI, you get smarter insights without all the heavy lifting. You can more accurately see what your customers want and when they want it. You can work smarter and be more confident in your decision making. You can join brands who've optimized their marketing strategy with Clavio AI, including for example, men's personal care brand, Every Man Jack. They've used Clavio's AI-powered predictive analytics to generate personalized predictions about each of their
subscribers. That in turn helped them deliver top-notch customer experiences and drive more. Revenue Clavio power smarter digital relationships. Visit clavio.com slash Vox to learn more. That's clavio.com slash Vox. Support for this show comes from Fiverr. The world's largest marketplace for freelance services and the fast-paced world of business every decision counts. And when it comes to hiring, there's no room for guesswork. That's why Fiverr has developed solutions for
business to make outsourcing projects simple, quick, and compliant. You can gain access to curated talent through Fiverr pros catalog of top freelancers organized by skills and experience plus. You can streamline your projects with a user-friendly dashboard where you can track progress and collaborate with your team. Fiverr pros is perfect for businesses that want to work with top talent for
immediate or long-term needs. And for anyone needing the highest level of WikeLove service, Fiverr pros project partners can manage multiple freelancer engagements for you. Project partners while online requirements assemble a roster freelancers and manage a schedule to ensure your deliverables are completed on time, allowing you to flex your budget without any headcount constraints. Ready to scale smarter? Visit pro.fiverr.com to sign up and use code pivot
for 15% off any service. That's pro.fiverr.com and use code pivot. Scott, we're back with our second big story. Openize says it intends to move to dismiss all of Elon's most recent legal claims. Companies shared more about their mission and their relationship with Elon and a blog post on Tuesday, which included a number of old emails. I love that they use them. I use some of my book of his so you could understand what happened.
According to OpenAI, they decided with Elon in late 2017 that the next step of the company was to create a for-profit entity. And it seems like he did agree. But he wanted majority equity, initial board control and to be CEO. What a fucking narcissist this guy is. He also withheld. He did give money to them, but he wanted everything for that. He also withheld funding money during these discussions. Of course, they turned to guess what? Read Hoffman. There's other
rich people. Elon, there's other rich people who think AI is cool. OpenAI is coming out swinging with this post. The Wall Street Journal has peace on how Elon's San Pro man's turned toxic, which we've talked about. I've known about this for a long time. I don't know if he's going to move forward with the suit, but these letters are kind of interesting. Also, OpenAI is also on the PR move. OpenAI, Google Meta and 300 others signed an open letter this week pledging to build AI
for a better future. This letter mentions a collective responsibility, Max Myzei is benefit and limit the risks. He has how much I'm posted about it on X. Same is excited for the spirit of this letter. You know, it's a PR thing, of course. So first, we'll get to that. But what do you think about their thing? Did you read their blog posts? The call for a moron. No, not that. No, no, no. No. The putting up the emails and saying, this is bullshit. Calling them on his post.
I love it. I think that there, I mean, for all the criticism, warning criticism that Jack Doris, he got, I actually thought his board led by Brett Taylor literally just dissected, picked apart and just absolutely drawn and quartered all of Elon's arguments and thoughtful, messaged ways when he was trying to back out of an agreement that he contractually signed up left right when he realized he'd overpaid for the thing in a fit of mania. So I think it's,
I loved it. I mean, it's great reading. It's just like, okay, let's be clear. You gave us some money. You then wanted to be the CEO. You wanted to be the majority shareholder. And it's clear you weren't doing this for humanity. You were doing it for control and wealth. And we said no and found better options. Oh, and by the way, it worked out really well for us and our shareholders. Just FYI, it looks as if this company without the benefit of your genius has done really well. And
I mean, it's just, it's so obvious what's going on here. And I find it, I'm shocked. He's not more embarrassed, but we live in an economy now and in a society where it's like, just get attention. Oh, wait, should I weigh in on the Disney proxy battle? No, I shouldn't. I have no domain expertise here. Immigrants. His immigration stuff is so heinous this week. But go ahead and it's unfortunate because
it's our fault. It doesn't even matter how heinous or stupid or irrational my take is as long as I'm in the news, as long as I'm in the news. And that's where we are. We're in an attention economy. It doesn't, doesn't matter why you're in the news, just as long as you're in the news. And this guy is literally massively addicted to attention. And a lot of these guys have some of the same addiction bill. Actman is a really smart guy. He can't help himself. He's like, oh, I got a
way on on this issue now. I got a way on on Harvard's hedge fund. I've got anyway, I, I, I bred it. I thought they did a great job. I think they're going to clinically take them limb from limb. Yeah, I agree. I think what would you miss about someone like Altman and the people around him? And I, I think they're going to announce a spectacular board. I've been hearing all kinds of different names. They're talking to. I think they're announcing spectacular part, you know, even
handed board that's full of stars. I think this has been a huge mistake on the lens part. And interesting Leon threads, Dustin Moskovetsu was one of the early Facebook people is essentially saying tech people let's, let's get together and start telling people Elon's a fuck essentially. This is bullshit. What he's doing? He's ruining the brand tech by doing this. And these guys, let me just tell you, they're just, they're just like him in the ways they fight back. They don't
roll over. And so this was a not roll over thing. And I agree, Brett Taylor did it effectively, more quietly. Sam is more aggressive. He's more and the group he's around. They're, they're like, they know him, right? And they're going to come at him and showing his greed, which is what this was essentially is perfect because he, he tries to, to virtue signal about how he cares about humanity.
And, you know, and then they sign the letter, which look, it's just whatever. I just, the pledge doesn't have them to anything, but it gives them another like, yes, we do look, we're signing with everybody. I think it's just fine to do that. It doesn't, it doesn't, it's just a good move. The two things together are obviously linked. Well done. On AI development, Anthropic just released Claude 3. It's latest group of AI models. The company says it's most advanced model,
ex-beats near human levels of comprehensive fluency. This is, this Anthropic has a, a investment from, from Amazon. Obviously, we're also hearing about this interesting company perplexity. Several people have asked me to meet the CEO, looking to challenge Google's dominance in web search, kind of interesting. It just finalized new funding deal around a billion dollar
valuation. Really interesting company. I'm going to meet with the CEO. You know, it's an interesting time because even though these are all big players and you'd like to see not perplexity, but these are well-funded players. It is really interesting to see this level of competition in the area. Again, I still think that the government needs to be part of this and that, that we shouldn't not have, they can virtue signal they want about this kind of thing. But we definitely need the
government involved too. I, I just heard from Senator Klobuchar that the Appropriations Committee stole basically an extra 45 million dollars as opposed to go to the antitrust deal, J. This was adding to merger fees that actually passed and they're trying to claw it back from the Justice Department further. And they're in the midst of all these antitrust cases. But I, I find that offensive that this was money to be used to help the government in certain areas,
which they do, dearly need it. And so the only piece missing here is government involvement too on in a smart way. So that's what I would say. Thoughts. So a lot there. So someone called me and offered me in the secondary market, shares an anthropic evaluation of I think 18 billion, which is their raising money. And it's just so crazy
that valuation based on their metrics. But it's, I don't know, I'm kind of tempted. And actually, the reason I told you this, I've been buying or started buying about a six, nine months ago, claims against a bankrupt FTX. Yeah. So you buy them from the creditors. And my total motivation for buying them was I read in the bankruptcy filing that they owned 8% of anthropic.
There are eight or nine million, eight or nine billion in claims against a bankrupt FTX. And I think their stake the way I did the math was their stake in their stake in anthropic as we're two to three billion, or you're going to get 30 cents on the dollar just from their anthropic stake. And anything else they recover is great because when I started buying, I was buying it 23 cents on the dollar. And anyways, that my motivation for buying bankrupt claims against a FTX was anthropic,
or specifically FTX is stake in anthropic. Anyway, I, because I'm hanging out with you and you and Tammy had had took me to the White House. I've gotten some calls from the White House who are working on AI. And they've been asking for advice around individuals and their approach to it. And when I said, is, look, they think you got to keep in mind is whenever you're speaking to a Jensen Huang or a Sam Aldman, they're very thoughtful guys. Absolutely. Speak to them. But keep in mind,
they're objective and they're frame around everything. Jensen Huang is going to find really rational compelling reasons why he should be allowed to sell sophisticated, sophisticated AI chips to China. Sam is going to argue for, you know, and very thoughtful Hush tones talk about, well, you have to be considerate. But he's going to, yeah, you have to get people on this board and
advising you that are totally charged with protecting the Commonwealth, not shareholders. And the thing I don't like about a lot of these boards is we're so fascinated with people and the people they get the most airtime are these very compelling people who were the brush chairman and their fraternity or sorority who will talk their own book. And they asked me to outline the two biggest risks. I'm like, in the short term, hands down, the biggest risk of AI is disinformation around
the campaign. And this is how I think it'll play out. I think Putin using brilliant AI and porous amoral management platforms and management respectively at social media firms will produce deep fake AI driven videos of Biden and that'll be imperceptible. It won't be totally blatant. It'll be something along the lines of the following. It won't make Biden look 81. It'll make him look 84. A little bit more pause, a little bit more shuffling of the feet. It'll be imperceptible.
But it'll play into kind of our worst fears around the president. And then the second thing, and this was, they're all over that. They know that. The thing they didn't know is I think actually the biggest risk of AI is that if you look at a lot of the nationalists and the people who have our real deep conspiracy theorists, it's not only young men. It's a lot of men working in our
armed services. And I think young men because they are lonely and they don't have the economic opportunities to have and because they become much more prone to algorithms, algorithms who see an opportunity to exploit their more risk aggressive behavior, their loneliness, their gambling addiction. I mean, if AI girlfriends pop up and these men continue to be more and more sequester from society and AI starts getting a hold of them, you could find some very scary individuals weaponized at our
ports. Yeah. And our Navy. It feels like a movie. Well, it's when you say that. That's another talk show. But I think the biggest security threat to America in terms of really the homeland is a group of young men who are susceptible to AI algorithms that will weaponize them and radicalize them. Well, interestingly, you're a sick fuck, but I agree with you. I have to say, we'll see what happens with this all, but that is a scary sick fuck. And it's a great movie. You should sell
to Hollywood. Maybe Bob Igers by. I'm going to be an ally next week. All right. You sell that motherfucker. Anyway, let's pivot to a listener question. This question comes in via email. I'll read it. I care and Scott longtime listener. Why is Siri so bad? I can't believe that with the strength and pride of product that Apple has that such a key user experience is just so poor. Is it because they're hopelessly behind an AI? Is it because they hobble their AI capabilities with their privacy
ideology beyond Siri sent a message to my wife that I'm running late? It's useless. And given their head start, that just seems stupid. We love to hear your thoughts. Best wishes to both Sam. Sam, you're talking to a fellow traveler on this one. I cannot believe how bad Siri is. I talk about it all the time. I get mad at Siri. They are they they need one of the things I just talked to someone about around near Apple was the absolute necessity to use. This is how they should use AI. I think
we talked about it this week is to make these products better and to make these assistance. I think they could shine in this area. There are issues that they are more they have more of a privacy ideology. No question. But if it's within your ecosystem and you give it the permissions, it should be your helper and they will be the bet they could be the best at it right now. They're the worst. No one's really good. But they have a real this is where AI will be great for a
company like Apple is your music. What do you want? When do you want to play it in your car? The the seamlessness you're absolutely right and they can do it in a way that protects privacy and at the same time gives you the kind of service you come to expect from Apple products which you do. And so when it's kind of shitty you get really more mad at Apple if things don't work.
Scott I agree with you and I have absolutely no good reason and it is art you just hearing you articulate that it's arguably the biggest missed opportunity for Apple because as I think about it a decent portion of my life I walk around with a super computer controlled by iOS control by Apple with the most popular expensive successful greatest margin producing piece of
jewelry in history AirPods. So they have something in my year that could subtly say turn right or look for someone you know you're the person you're meeting you know look for a top I mean it could just you got seven minutes to get to your dentist appointment have you considered ordering an
Uber now it could just they have everything they're at all these LLMs in general AI it's they got to figure out a way to get people to sign up given the credit card start figuring out prompts there already a letter L with this stuff they got they got a communication vehicle in your ear
and a supercomputer they control in your pocket so I don't get it the weird thing about voice assistance was last year was for the first time voice use of voice assistance actually went down and I don't know about your household yep I agree we're using Alexa last which is interesting
it's bad it's bad it doesn't it doesn't help you and and Apple is completely with they should be able to do this so like I sit there and I'm like wonder you know it's sort of like when I feel when I go into an Apple store you know what I'm gonna buy something why they don't know me if I give
them my permission and then they come and show me things like I should they should know carousel which just spends a lot of fucking money there and like stop focusing on that person focus on me like that kind of thing anyway yes Sam you're 100% right is Apple's greatest
possibility and they are they are at L everybody else a lot of people I've talked to this on this tour everyone's like no one's really talking about how they make everybody makes money from chat GPT etc and that's true like how do we actually monetize this that question has besides
jacking up the valuations that that has not gotten answered in any way and Apple is way ahead on this kind could be way ahead but the monetization of all this stuff is still we're in the early we're in the no stages of this thing and there it's except for just stock appreciation but we'll see
if you got a question of your own you'd like answered send it our way go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show we're called 85551 pivot thanks Sam that was a great question all right Scott one more quick break we'll be back for predictions
Alex is 24 ultra circle to search with Google compren to you in Samsung.com requericoncione internet the results can vary depending on the images this episode is brought to you by Shopify forget the frustration of picking commerce platforms when you switch your business
to Shopify the global commerce platform that supercharges your selling wherever you sell with Shopify you'll harness the same intuitive features trusted apps and powerful analytics used by the world's leading brands sign up today for your one dollar per month trial period at Shopify.com
slash tech all lowercase that's Shopify.com slash tech this episode is brought to you by Kia's first three-roll all-electric SUV the Kia EV9 with available all-wheel drive and seating for up to seven adults with zero to 60 speed that
thrills you one minute and available lounge seats that unwind you the next visit kea.com slash EV9 to learn more ask your key a dealer for availability no system no matter how advanced can compensate for all driver error and or driving conditions always drive safely.
okay Scott I have a couple my first is just sort of an easy one or much more of a statement disguises a prediction I think a lot of these local civic groups and essentially organizations whether it's city councils are going to be asked to tone down the politics my I'm in a union
believe it or not actually do I know that I don't even know that I've had so many different classifications of my status at NYU I've been associate clinical then clinical then faculty then adjunct and when you're an adjunct you're automatically enrolled in the UAW union United auto workers yeah for some reason they are the union representing adjuncts and the UAW division representing adjuncts at NYU past a resolution condemning the idea.
And we mainly got notices all the adjuncts at at Stern saying the union is is condemning the idea and regardless of what side you're on I'm just not sure why I'm looking to the union representing adjunct professors to make any statement on the Middle East and it's fucking everywhere
everywhere every union city council meeting school board has decided that they're Elon Musk and need to weigh in on every issue and it's it's sort of the mother of all look I get it there's nothing wrong with having an opinion but why are people paying you what are they really looking
for from you well you're using the Gaza thing actually there's some really good stories about sort of the right wingers have taken over and people are sick of it and they're going to get voted out because of the banning all the culture issues you know book banning and a lot of people
are sick of that like what are you doing this isn't your job the same thing it's worse yeah I agree the Gaza thing is not nearly as bad as book banning I'm sorry it's not even close but there's a lot of dissatisfaction with local groups pushing whatever political agenda they have okay but I
think book banning is more dangerous but at least I would argue book banning is not nearly as a Jason for a school board to be discussing then policy in the Middle East yes but it's book meeting Scott you should listen to some of these people they're like they're doing all kinds of I have
listened to him Cara they're crazy and wrong on an issue related to the school I don't think the school board should even be addressing or giving time to people to discuss issues that really have no direct impact on the local school board and Ocala it's more than that this these are these are
local officials not just school boards but all kinds of city councils that are that have turned far right and they're getting a lot out flashback because they're all they do is woke stuff all day so people are tired of that they want the these local councils to do their jobs roads fixing things
dealing with homelessness whatever it happens to be we're saying the same thing yeah I know I'm just saying just putting the left side on mine wasn't left or right it was common sense well you did you mention God's you didn't mention the other side which is much more prevalent but how is that
left or right at who might defend okay all right go ahead yeah yeah it's like the more people did it go ahead okay so my prediction is that the new junior senator from Arizona will be Ruben Gallego I love this guy raised by a single mother in Chicago managed to get to Harvard and then
decided to go serve in the Marines where he did a tour of duty in operation Iraqi freedom was also in a fraternity which I like which I know is really out ofogue but I just I just love this guy and I love this because he's running a kid's the literally the least likable person in American politics
carry like this is an easy one there's I understand where Chris and cinema point point out Chris and cinema just decided not to run and he shoot they were worried about her taking votes from him first off okay I hate people who are nothing but malignant narcissists posing as moderates
and if you had a fire extinguisher and Kristen cinema and Joe Manchin were on fire the only question is where do you hide the fire extinguisher oh my god that's these people it's a joke it's a joke okay these people positioning themselves as moderates and thoughtful were nothing but narcissists
who on any point of leverage when they saw a close vote even on really important stuff whether it was doing away or new filibuster rules to codify rovy way oh wait I have opportunity to get a ton of news I'm going to be a holdout and couch it and being a moderate oh I know I see an opportunity
to raise a million dollars from private equity special interest groups if I demand that the tax loophole for private equity is going to be that's going to be closed is restored to pass an act good luck Kristen going over to your private equity friends that's what she's gonna end up doing again the
daily show called it right it's like me her announcing that you know she shouldn't run and that should politics just isn't right for her that's like me announcing I'm not running to be you know to be quarterback of the jets she was going to get destroyed yeah but it might have hurt oh yeah
she might have been a spoiler she might have been a spoiler my favorite part of the whole carry like thing besides she's a loathsome piece of shit is is you know she attacked john McCain mercilessly and at the cruelest way like not just she could say I don't agree with his politics but she went
after him in the nastiest way you could do to someone who's dead by the way and so she's been trying to reach out to the McCain family which has great and there's the McCain Republicans in Arizona which have great influence still people really love john McCain and Megan McCain who's I'm not a
fan of has been eviscerating her publicly like no fucking way and she does she goes no fucking way bitch we're not you're not coming back you don't get forgiven it is the funniest thing to watch like she every time she tries to be like no we just had some differences then McCain was like oh no
girl we hate you we hate you and by the way don't vote for her I'm a Republican no vote for her it's really something to see that's a really interesting race you're right Rubens terrific I think Carrie Lake is Donald Trump minus the charisma I think Donald Trump has actually got a lot of
charisma to a small group of people she's just awful all the conspiracy theory with none of the humor and charm I mean I just she's just I can't think of a worst candidate right now for the Republicans to put up so anyways I my prediction this guy is solid yeah he's right out of central
casting I met him in person he's also very funny he's really like a very affable fella I think people I think voters once they really spent a lot of time with him really enjoy it would be interesting to have astronaut and him two Democrats and if they if he wins in Arizona which is
interesting because it's a conservative state well she's out there telling lies and and conspiracy theories and I mean really sewing damage and also her professional peak was being the local Fox and anchor anchor for the regional station he was in Lima company battalion with the 25th Marines that lost 46 Marines and one Navy corpsman between January 2005 and January 2006 this guy this guy showed up you know I mean so I think it's going to be I think Arizona there's a lot of veterans in Arizona
so I'm not just talking I you know I have a bias here but I think if you just game theory this out she's gonna have a very tough road ahead of her because this guy this guy looks rock solid anyways I'm a big fan of this guy and and good ridden's Kristen cinema I agree good ridden's okay
Scott that's the show we'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot will you read us out today's show was produced by Larry name and so markets and Taylor Griffin earning your time engineered this episode thanks also to Drew Burrows and Milsa Vario Nishat Kerwa his Fox Media's executive producer of audio
make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen podcasts thanks for listening to pivot from New York magazine and box media you can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business Texas here we go
support for pivot comes from fund rise you know the adage by low sell high it's easy to say and hard to do for example high interest rates are crushing the real estate market right now demand is dropping and prices are falling even from many of the best assets it's no wonder the fund rise flagship fund plans to go on a buying spree expanding its billion dollar real estate portfolio over the next few months you can add the fund rise flagship fund to your portfolio in just minutes
with as little as ten dollars by visiting fund rise.com slash pivot carefully consider the investment objectives risk charges and expenses of the fund rise flagship fund before investing this and other information can be found in the funds perspective at fund rise.com slash flagship this is a paid advertisement. Before we go I want to let you know that Scott and I are heading to Austin for
the South by Southwest festival Yeehaw. That's right. The great the great state of Texas on Friday March 8th I'll be doing a live episode of the profft pod at Atlassian headquarters Atlassian do you get the sense the founder of that company was beaten up in the third grade and this is this way again. No he's a handsome man. I'm Atlassian is it? He's a handsome he's a big man. That counts for a lot. Okay good. On Saturday March 9th on Saturday March 9th we'll be
recording an episode of pivot from the box media podcast stage sponsored by Atlassian. Atlassian again. Yes. Once again by a big handsome CEO. That economic platform of that dreamy man. Dreamy man he's dreaming you'll think he's dreaming. We'll be throwing brisket from the stage right is that correct? Brisket from the stage. I don't get that reference. Oh Texas. We're going to be we're throwing brisket from the stage hot brisket with barbecue sauce. No we're not going to do that.
Anyway finally on Sunday I'll be I'll do a live episode of on with Mark Cuban but it's actually not on he's interviewing me for my book which will be fun and it'll be fun he's been up to a lot of hygiene so around DEI and stuff like that and he's always a fun he's always a fun guy so we're very excited about that. Visit voxmedia.com slash live to learn more about all the programming on
the box media podcast stage. Everyone's going to be there. Brunei, Brown, Esther, Perrell, all kinds of people's us that's voxmedia.com slash live.