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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. How you doing, Scott? You're going on a dude call tonight, aren't you? I am. I've been invited to the... What's it called? The White Guys, the White Guys Services Up? Yeah. White Guys, the Harris. So it's finally that White men are getting a little bit of recognition and having some influence in this world, Cara. Yeah. And you didn't ask me where I am. I'm an ass band.
Where are you? Oh, what are you doing there? What I was doing. I'm here for a few weeks in the summer. I love it here. And I'm mostly going to San Embrose and walking around and saying hi to people and then going to Cash Cash. I'm just living, you know, the douche lifestyle capital, all caps. Right. So over price tiny sandwiches, you're enjoying them. They're great. The teenage love that he does. Yeah, my mom's my mom's, you know, it's Lucky's favorite place in New York, San Embrose.
San Embrose? Yeah. The one on the West Village or the one on Waffaya? No, the one uptown. It started uptown, I think. I like Lucky. Never sounds. She loves to see her there. And maybe I'll get her some in New York this week. I'm going to take Louis back to NYU. He got an apartment. Oh, nice. And yeah, so maybe I'll pick up some or mine some of you to get some. Because they're going to pick Lucky's spending the week with me in DC. That should be interesting.
Oh, I'm sorry. I mean, that's great. That's great. So ask me as pretty. So your expensive dune of sandwiches. Nice. Good. Good. How's the weather? No wildfires. I hope it's spectacular here. And what's interesting is it's, you know, I'm moving coming here. We used to come here in the winter to ski and we came here one summer about eight years ago. Now we just come in the summers. And what's interesting is the last two summers. It's been noticeably less crowded because of all this pent up demand
of all. This is a demographic that goes to Europe a lot. And once COVID sort of burned out or started to subside and off it's a hate crime to say COVID is over, you have a ton of these people are now in Europe. So it actually feels quite quiet. Oh, nice. Well, I'll be there next week. No, okay. Little, little privilege economic run down. Bringing Lucky and you two considered San Ambrose and my kibbats. What do you think?
Oh, we do that. I'm like, I'm good. Good. That could be a good reality show. The two of you. Lockheed Scott at Santa. Santa. Jesus grumpy or grumpy. Yeah, I know. It'd be really good. I hate him too. Oh, God, I hate him more. No, I agree. Lucky. She isn't, she is a big disappointment as a daughter. Lucky. I agree. Yeah. I agree. So wait, wait, just give me a minute. So you're this dude thing you're doing. You know, Lucky is predicting comma is going to win.
It's the cover of New York bags. Kamala Kamala. She's predicting Kamala is going to win. Yeah, she did. I almost saw it in my chair. 200 million bucks in a week. The enthusiasm is, I mean, granted some of it a Wayne, you know, they were just getting their attack engine going. She'll come under a bunch of warranted and scrutiny that every candidate gets. But the honeymoon period is like, this is a month long honeymoon right now. Yeah, it is everything every lot
of sex happening. Oh my God. And I mean, Cara, this, this, whatever you call white dude thing and not weird sex like JD Vance, but go ahead dolphins and couches with furniture. I'm not sure I even understand what these being accused of there. But anyways, the, I was asked to come on CNN tonight and talk about how weird the campaign is or the Trump campaign is and talk about the white dude thing. But they had, I mean, they barely sent
an email and 80,000 of us raised our hands and said, yeah, we're in. And that says something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Although that's less than the, than the black men and black women, I think there's, they're doing groups of Zoom calls, which I think is fascinating. I think it's really, really fascinating. Don't you think? I'm, I'm, I'm of two minds about that. I like that.
We're saying, don't be ridiculous. There's a lot of white men who you immediately create a stereotype of that want a great economy, the one progressive policies, the one bodily autonomy for women that want a wonderful world for their daughters that believe in liberal politics. So I like that that that's a chance for us to say, don't be stupid. There's a bunch of us that
are hand in hand with these ideals in our fighting for them. But at the same time, it feels as if the world is becoming so much more, it's just becoming one giant identity politics exercise. You know, just everybody identifies now based on their, their sexual orientation, their background, their gender. And I think some of it is unhealthy. Yeah. I think some of this is fun though. They're, they're doing it in a fun way. I like Asian ladies, the black ladies. So I think it's kind of fun,
like teams and then they're all going to get together. In this way, it feels light. I agree with you that there's too much identification. But I think this is more enjoy than it is in, like anger or grievance. Yeah. This is tongue in cheek in funny. I'm thinking, I'm getting involved in another one, Jews for Harris. I'm worried that a lot of a lot of Jews, including myself, are so kind of rattled by October 7th. And we're concerned about some of what we proceed as
anti-Israel comments from the far left that it's pivoted a lot of people to the right. And a lot of Jews have become one issue voters. And what I'm going to try and do, and I want to do something similar to what these guys have done. I've been inspired is a Jews for Harris because I don't think, I don't think, I think if you really put on your critical thinking hat, I think the best thing we could hope for in terms of not only the end to the word, but a sustainable peace would be to have
the continuation of the Biden-Harris administration. I don't think they get nearly as much credit as they should further steadfast support of Israel and immediately deploying aircraft carrier forces over there. And also post when the war does come to an end. Make your, make your, making it now. And then post, post the end of the war, you're going to have to have a fairly complex multilateral peace force there. And who is most likely to build an enduring peace? You'll probably have to have
back channel negotiations with Iran. Is that, is that Anthony Blinken or someone who's likely to be a future resident of a federal or state prison somewhere, which is a one and three chance of any cabinet appointee of the Trump administration? And I really, I've really disappointed that a lot of people aren't slowing down. They're, they're more fond of the macho. They should finish the job that you hear from the Trump administration. It's like, well, okay, what the fuck does that mean?
Just give, you know, it, this sort of what I'll call blanket chess pounding macho. If you really look at what's happened in terms of on the ground, who's been effective, not only supportive of effective around Israel, I would, I would argue that the Biden Biden-Harris administration has been outstanding for Israel. And I don't think they get the credit they deserve. Anyways, I'm after the white guys, I'm going to go to more identity politics and potentially participate
or do something similar for Jews. So ultra ultra ultra white guy podcast. Well, here's the deal. So yeah, it'll be interesting. I think it'll be, it has to have been a nuanced conversation. Unfortunately, it's not most of the time. You know, it was interesting though. You're talking about the, the identity politics. There was a really interesting story, which you've talked about is the difference between young men and young women going totally differently.
Crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. Going, you know, I think that's interesting to me. But we'll see what happens. I think it's really exciting. And again, I urge people to look at the cover of New York magazine. She's sitting on a coconut, you know, this whole thing, the whole, the all the all the online stuff is cool. I don't think online is everything. If that makes sense, I don't think on you like it's like snakes on a plane. You don't know.
But I think this is real with these numbers and the money and the. Oh, no. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. You know, I'm in California right now. Do you want to know why? Oh, you are I'm excited to ask where you are. Where are the San Francisco? I am. Yeah, I'm south of San Francisco. Guess what? Guess one of the reasons I'm here. Jeffrey Swisher is launching a show on the new CNN plus. I don't know. Blue is back. No, I signed up. I sold my book to Hollywood.
I sold my book to Hollywood. Do you mean you've been, it's been, okay, so when you give a lesson here, what do you mean by soul white woman? It's it's it's option. It's option. Okay, so just so you know, I don't want to burst your bubble. Let's let we can enjoy it for a minute. Okay, minutes up. Every book I've written has been optioned and how many have made the big screen. But you're I'm going to tell you when you come to my Emmy award winning party for it.
Oh, Emmy Oscars. No, no, it's going to be a TV series. Bitch, we're going to the Venice film festival. Where you're dressing up. I think it's a TV series. Oh, it's going to be original scripted drama. Who should play you? That's really what we want to know. Let's be honest. It's a toss up between Brad Pitt and the guy who played Elvis Austin Butler at that shaved head kind of that look you hadn't do. That's just it's like looking in a mirror. Kara. It's like looking in a mirror.
Who's the option? Did are you allowed to say? Yes, yes, I can. Tomorrow studios, they made snowpiercer, they made physical. They made a whole bunch of stuff. But I think they're interested in a TV show. I think they're interested in a TV show and ongoing limited series TV shows. So I'm excited. I'm like, I have our competitors. I'm doing something similar. Oh, are you? Well, we'll see.
Mine's a real story, as opposed to. Yeah, I think I asked you to get involved. And you said, no, I'm doing an original script or I'm working on original scripted drama with billions just to alternative investments or succession was to family owned. Maybe I'm doing the same thing for big tech. Okay. All right. Well, the mine's a real story. It's based on my story. Who should star as me? Kristen Stewart. It's got to be a believable lesbian. I think you just have
Anne half the way a foot shorter and it much butchier haircut and boom or done. That was good. We're so happy. Let's see who gets made first. Okay. Let's know. No, no, Anne half the way and just have her stop doing Botox for a month and boom, she looks like you. Well, I am thrilled to be doing the deal with tomorrow's studios. And I'm very excited. No comment, huh? Actually, you know, would be hilarious. I've oh my god. I've got it. I've totally got it. You know who
should play you? Whale Sandberg. I like it. Oh, I like it. Do you think she needs a new career? Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. Who would play you? That would be fun. We should definitely do. I'm calling out a contest. Please on threads. Not on acts because it'll get ugly fast on threads. The word, the words lend a hunt popped into my mind. But that's not fair. Oh my god. I'm hanging up on you right now. We've done. We're done. Burn book. The TV series. Anyway, we're going to
we're going to like to get to date. Trump's Bitcoin play. Connolly's fundraising numbers and Elon's deep fake post plus our friend of pivot is Atlantic staff writer and Applebaum. She's got a new book out called a talker. See ink. The dictators who want to run the world. But first, President Joe Biden is proposing a reform to the Supreme Court. Something you've talked about.
The Biden is calling for term limits. He's listening to us. God abiding ethics code and a constitutional amendment to claim presence do not have immunity from crimes committed well in office. The proposed amendment called the no one as above the law amendment would require two thirds majority approval in the House and Senate. Probably not going to get passed. So is this a good thing for him to be doing? You could do any wants right now. Couldn't
I mean, it starts as is how I think this is I mean, it's a shame. I would love to see this. The most arguably the most powerful people in the world over the medium and the long term are the president and maybe even more so the Supreme Court justices and you know, to those who powers
granted much as expected, these people should have the highest standards in the world. And so to now you got a kind of fine line between an ethics code and something that could be weaponized by opponents of that of that person's ideology and use that as a means of getting them off the court. But what's happened here has gone so far in terms of justice, Thomas deciding, you know, which which fabulous cruise or scuba ship or trip he's going to take with which people with
issues before the court. I was surprised they didn't have a binding ethics code like everybody else can't. I was sort of like what? Like kind of term limits, I think are the most important. I would love that. One, no, I have trouble thinking of any institution that has fallen further faster in terms of prestige and credibility than the Supreme Court of the United States. And two, we need more ageism in our country. We need to recognize that people's brands,
perspectives and capabilities change with age both on the bottom. You can't run for president when you're 34 and you shouldn't be able to run for president when you're 75. So then that should be the same way for the Supreme Court. What's that? I think 80, well 75. Let's cut the difference. 78, 78. The constitutional amendment thing is a little more complicated because they have given a terrible, possibly terrible leader a lot of outs in terms of doing things. We'll see
where that goes. That's a much more complex. From what I've talked to a lot of people, it's much more complex. But I think the ethics code and the term limits take care of a lot of the problems we have with this court in a lot of ways. But I don't know. Also, so if they are the term limit, we know who won and who gets to appoint them pretty much in advance. There's a little more planning to be done. Anyway, it's interesting. This is an interesting story. Did you see this
Murdoch family in a court battle? Who will lead this court in Fox? What do you think of this? It was new. Oh, I know a lot about it. Let me just go through it for people. Currently, the family trust gives each of Murdoch's four children equal votes. He has two others, but they have ownership but not votes. He wants to change that. He made this when he divorced from his wife, Anna, she insisted on this. The Rupert has filed a petition to amend the trust. It's an
irrevocable trust. But that's what he's done to give exclusive control to his oldest son, Lockland. As a reason he cites political differences with his other children that could impact editorial stance of his companies. Three other children have responded with a legal challenge. The trial is expected to be in September. It's in Nevada, where this is. So it's one person who deals with trusts in the States. There's one tiny little out that he's saying he's doing it for
the benefit of these people and he's doing it for political reasons. That's not the benefit of shareholders or anything else that let Lockland, who's presided over disaster after disaster at the company, including the lawsuits and behaviors and payoffs and everything else. I mean, Lockland has been a terrible CEO in that regard. I don't think this helps shareholders. I, you know, what's interesting, I have a little knowledge of these people. They were not together. James Liz
and I think it's prudence. They were not aligned. It all Liz moved back and forth like Shiv on succession, you know, she was, she's very much wanting her dad and her to get along. So this united them, which was of course another stupid thing Lockland does because he's dumb as a box of hammers. So it's really interesting. You know, this is a family that has huge impact on our society. And he's trying to live beyond the grave, this old, crusty old, uh, Dracula's trying to
live beyond the grave. What do you think? There are a few companies I have difficult time thinking of a for profit company who has a greater impact relative to its market capitalization. I mean, I think the market cap of, I forget what the market cap is, but it's essentially, you know, you have, oh, it's $33 billion, which is, you know, Warner's 20, which is unfair because that's 40 billion in debts. It's 60 billion in enterprise value, but it's $33 billion, which is, you know,
big, but this is arguably, I mean, you can make a, you could definitely make an argument. This is one of the five or 10 most influential companies in the world. And a lot of people think that this company literally picks the Republican nominee for president and has a huge influence. And Jessica Tarlov, who I've been spending a lot of time with, uh, who's kind of the, you're welcome. What's that? I introduced you. You introduced us. Yes, I do. You introduced me and Jess. Yeah, really? Yes.
I didn't know that everybody important to do. There we go. I know. Don't worry. I'll forget about you once I'm really famous. Oh, yes. I remember her. I remember her. Shiltsamberg played her in the original scripted trauma, right? That one. Anyways, I'm super, super, super. Tomorrow's studios. Anyway, sorry. Yeah. When something gets option, I'm excited for you to see how basically LA offers Zuma Beach, the Hollywood ball in and out burger and a whole lot of people
masturbating each other and never getting off. Did nothing ever fucking get done in that town? At least not with me. Anyways, let's move along. Too much. It's too much. Not for you, but it does for Cara Swisher. But go ahead. Go ahead. There we go. Anyways, Jessica, we were talking about, you know, she's on, she's on Fox. And she read me some stats that just blew my mind. Fox's viewership is really strong. I mean, he's actually, I don't think it's fair to say
Laughlin's done a terrible job. I think the Dominion case was obviously a huge stub toe, but I think that's more about the fact that, well, anyways, I think I think it's unfair to say he's done a bad job. What I took from this entire story. Come on. The two cases are smart mad at coming. But go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, okay. Let me, let me, let me say the HR has not been very good here, but the company is, the company is as influential as it has ever been. And the
Wall Street Journal is amazing. Anyways, up for debate, whether you think he's done a good job or not. What I took from this had nothing to do with business, nothing. And that is I'm, I'm turning 50. And my sole objective right now, all the money I'm spending almost every, they make biggest
thing right now. My kids are about to be 14 and 17. I'm buying homes in beautiful places. I'm thinking about where we're going to live and making huge investments in my kids because all I want, first and foremost, is I want to spend a ton of time with my boys when they're older. And this is a man who by any stretch of the imagination, whether you think he's Satan's devil or whatever, has had a remarkably successful career in terms of influence and impact. And he's getting
married. Three of his four kids didn't show up. I know. What's not, which in my view, which in my view means you have failed. Yeah. And it also reverse engineered another thing, tax policy. I think we dramatically need to increase tax rates above, say, 10 million a year or on trusts because I'm telling you, Cara, you creating dynasties, it doesn't do anyone any good. Do you think this has been good for their family? It's what it's succession is we've got succession here. And you know, if he dies
before this thing gets detrial, it stays the same. And then we'll see what happens to this to this company because the other three, I wouldn't call them united, but now they are. Now they're like screw you dad. This is like the second thing I just behind wanting to spend a lot of time with my boys. You know what I really hope? I really hope that my boys are friends when they're older. And sometimes with the way they go at it, I think that's not a given. Yeah, it was tense between
Lockland and the rest of them. Because this was between Brutans as well out in Australia, it does her own thing, but it's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous thing to do with this moment in time because he's gonna, let me just tell you, Roddoch, you're gonna die. Like, you know, from Moonstruck, no matter what you do, you're gonna die. And you don't get to decide things after your dad. That's it. That's it. And he's ruining the rest of his thing just because he has this,
you know, some people think that Lockland is unduly influencing him. He is 90 some years old. That's one of the little things. You know, how you can make the same argument on the other three. No, they didn't start this thing. This was, this has been in place for decades. They moved to change it. This is a little bit of background. An irrevocable trust is basically a tax shelter. And this is what I'm getting at. Dynasties, as far as I can tell, don't do anyone
any good. They removed tax dollars from the Commonwealth. Your kids don't end up fighting each other and not showing up at their father's wedding. And dynastic wealth and tax policies elite to dynasties used to be something that we weren't down with. We used to have very high inheritance taxes. And now we have raised the minimums from five million per person to 11 million. And here's the thing. And this is where I'm going. And I'm becoming Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth
Warren giving your kids financial security fine. No, like, okay. But if they each got 25 million, not necessarily bill anything you give your kids about 10 or 20 million. It doesn't make them any happier. And at some point when you have this dynasty that has all this political influence and impact on the world, it ends up separating families and dividing them. That could be. But I'm saying this thing was in place for decades. He agreed to it. This is what it is. And now he's
having buyers remorse. It's all rooper or loglin generated. This is not those other kids doing this. But this is what you have to do to put something in something that transfers to your kids. Tax free is called a trust. But the thing about the trust is it has to be irrevocable. Now that term irrevocable is really important. It means that the construct and the agreements within the trust have to hold. You don't get to then decide to change it. And what he's claiming
is no, I want the irrevocable trust to be revocable. And there's a loophole. And the loophole is the following. If you can prove you're making decisions that helped them economically. Right? But he's basically going to try and say that my view, my endorsement of someone who has a different political complexion than the other three will help them economically. And I would think
legally the other three would be able to swap that down or just delay. Just take a note, you know, page out of the Trump lawyer, Hamburg and just keep delaying this case because he's not, his expiration date is about 10 years past. His mother lived to like, way past 100. I forget, she was running around a golf car. Who knows? In any case, it's sad and pathetic. And he's going right down the Sumner Redstone Avenue as they all, I thought maybe they would avoid this. But I
don't know. Interesting about Jessica Tarlov. She cannot come on my shows, but she can go on your show because they don't like it. Because I'm seeing this fox friendly. I go on. Your fox friendly. I'm not fox friendly. I'm boxy. I mean, out won't let her. And you know, Kavuto, I like Liz Claimon. I love Stuart Varney. I like the people. Yeah, I don't get, I don't get the same kind of thing, but you're welcome that you made a friend.
Well, let's be honest, when I say something stupid that inflames everybody, like mediocre calling, yeah, they I'm not getting. We're not discussing. I let's talk about it. I think it's interesting. I like running into the fire. So, but first, I just want to acknowledge, to come with you, go ahead and see something that business people off. They get angry at you. They do. Thank you. They get angry at you. That is correct. I said it. Not Kara. I know.
Anyways, oh, by the way, if we talk about that, you called you said she was a mediocre vice president. You said you said the other things. Okay, go ahead. You're taking that out of context. The exact, so this is a thread that got 2000, whatever likes and 2200 comments. And this is the exact thread. I said we should be open to the notion that someone who is a great attorney general, a great senator and a mediocre vice president is better suited in an executive role.
Now, and then I just went ape shit that I called her a mediocre vice president. Let me ask you this, Kara, a year ago, a year ago, if you pulled Democrats in the United States and said is vice president Harris and her role as vice president, is she bad, mediocre or good? What do you think would have won? I know. I don't think they like the word mediocre. I think it was the word. I think it was your word selection. I think I'm not successful. Mediocre was a word that
drove for say I was doing posts of my kids popping bubble wrap and it came over into that feed. I was like, get the fuck out of my kid bubble wrap feed. Like, why do you know about Scott and mediocre? I'm like, I do. But let me be clear, the cultists on the left are just as culty is the cultists on the right. I'm basically saying about, I'm basically saying, I'm basically saying, I think vice president Harris will likely make a good slash great president. I haven't been good at
two out of three of my jobs. But everybody in melee goes, how dare you call the new cult leader in any capacity mediocre because these are the people who are attacking us when we said Biden should step aside. It just FYI, the same people, same people who are mad at us for pushing Harris. Anyway, the bumper sticker is now be a cultist or shut the fuck up. It just replaced
Biden with Harris. And we have to have the thing I like about Democrats, all right, like to think, is we're a little bit more critical thinkers, we're a little bit more nuanced than the far right weirdos that are just like, Oh, he's Jim Jones, all drink cool aid. And but you know what? The, the, it's really interesting. The people in the far right have just written, written me off. I think that they attack you. They pretty much leave me alone, but they just written me off.
The people in the far left, they feel as if you betrayed them. They treat you like an apostate that you're the worst in the world because they thought they could trust you and you have not signed up for the cult. And they come after you. I agree. Well, we have to go on. But nonetheless, get the fuck out of my feeds about Scott, about my other thing. You love saying the dog. No, I'm almost like he can say whatever he wants. He, he's not saying anything that's not reasonable.
And then they attack you. No one ever comes after me for you. They're like, oh my God, how can you put up with her? But how much did you love this? My favorite. I've watched Celine Dion singing. I posted a song at the opening ceremony. He loved her. And I'm like, I'm like, I love Celine Dion. I did not know this. Yeah. Yeah. I remember watching you're thinking, oh my God, there's that lame Canadian. And I'm like, oh my God, she's amazing. She's amazing. Did you see that?
Yes, I of course I did. I was I was riveted to the horny last supper, which everyone got mad about. But anyway, we'll talk about the Olympics at the end. Anyway, we got to get to our first big story. We really have to move along. Elon Musk continues to be hell bent on sabotaging X, particularly when it comes to making the platform profitable. New York Times piece from over the weekend details X, CEO, Linda Yaccharino's many attempts to repair X's advertising business over the last
year in spite of Elon. Her efforts are like into a game of corporate whack-a-mole. Actually, it's just not doing well. Stop it. She's not, she's been ineffective in the extreme. So he's, what he was doing is doing a bunch of stuff, internal documents obtained by the time show that X earnings earned 114 million in revenue in the US in the second quarter of 53 percent decline. I was fries. It's not more. She's been trying to bring it back. He also is using his ex-account
promoted fake, deep fake video of Kamala Harris. He re posted an edited Harris campaign ad on Friday that appears to have been digitally altered to add a new voiceover and posting the video, Elon violated X's own policy and sharing synthetic and manipulated media. But no surprise, post is still. He doesn't carry on the place. He makes the rules. He who has the gold makes the
rules. So he's just as usual making a mess. And then the last thing, his issues with his kids, I know you don't like to talk about this, but as I told you, it was a big friggin deal. His daughter Vivian, whose transgender posted on threads finally debunking recent claims, Elon made about her childhood. She also called him cruel and narcissistic and an interview on NBC news. You should go read it because he was making fun of her boys, etc. when before she transitioned.
The mother of Elon's ex Grimes, whom I know is also speaking out on social media, she's accusing Elon of withholding her three grandchildren from their mother and other members of the family. The great grandmother is dying and they wanted to bring the kids to see her. It's just a mess. I go to the, I found the whole thing so rattling because his daughter said the worst thing you can say about any father in that is he wasn't involved.
Yeah, she basically said, all of this is bullshit. He just wasn't there. And when he was, he was mean, he was mean to her. Yeah, okay. So even worse. And as someone whose father wasn't very involved in my life up until, I shouldn't say that. He did make an effort. And mostly because this wonderful woman, by the way, shout out to stepmothers, including vice president Harris, stepmothers, step parents are some of the heroes. But the notion that your, your job as a dad is one, I think,
I do think it's important that you're a provider and a protector. But what your kids are going to remember is not how fun you were, how nice you were, how would a ball you were. They're going to remember whether you were there or not. And this young woman remembers that he was not there. That is job number one for dads. We don't always get a right. I still struggle sometimes with how to interact and how to behave around my, my boys. But here's the thing. You know, your job number
one is you got to be there, right? And, and she said the worst thing possible about him said he wasn't. Yeah. I think it was worse than that. I think his behavior was terrible when the thing was a child in terms of making, he made up all these things about her saying fabulous, all this stuff. This is vile. And she, and she wasn't having any of it. Like she was like, ah, that's never happened. The only time he did thing, he made fun of my boys, my high voice.
And when he was trying to PR us in a car, right, use this as PR, which he's doing with this other kid. I hate this so much. I want to move on to what I think the bigger threat at X is everyone's focused on Linda Yaccarino and the soap opera there about the advertising. Something really dangerous happened on X. And that was the guy who controls an influential platform, let a fake video, a deep fake go out and he endorsed it. And we predicted this earlier. And I think this
is short term the biggest threat of AI. You're going to have a much what I call shallow fakes. I would call what he did a shallow fake, the deep position and make candidates that aren't of his liking less attractive, likable, less votable. But this is what's going to get really fucking scary if they don't take actions in the government doesn't say you're going to get a lot of trouble
if you let this happen. If these platforms allow deep fake videos to come out in the few days leading up to the election, you're going to see, you're going to see video that looks very, very real of violence at polling stations that happen to be in King's week swing districts. The government, the DOJ, and because we cannot wait on the better angels of these executives, much less the person we're referencing, you could see voter turnout substantially. If you're like most people and you're
your single parent, you're trying to just get to work. Why is he doing it now to test it out? I don't think he's that strategic. I just think he just hates vice president Harrison. Thought it was funny, but this won't be funny if all of a sudden in swing districts, the GRU or somebody else about actor starts showing fake fake. You're in a there's only like 11. There's
not only only five swing states. There's like 10 or 11 counties in these swing states. What happens when a bunch of deep fakes come out 48 hours before your single mom, you're trying to get to the voting booth. You're really fucking busy. And you see a shooting at your polling station on that's forwarded to you from. If you're using some of these platforms, right? That's the thing.
Oh, that should get around. That's the thing. I'm not so sure. I think people are aware of this and the fact that he did this is of course he's violating his own rules, which is of course, if someone's like, can you believe it? I'm like, yes, he can do whatever he wants. It's a private platform. Yeah, surprising, but not shocking. I don't know. Shocking, but not surprising. He's using it as a political tool. That's all that's happening here. And of course, it makes,
he doesn't care about the business. You're right. Linda, I can hardly matter. In this whole thing. I don't she can, you know, she can sit around and do her little breathless. This is going to be a video platform is like, Linda, what are you doing? You're not running a company. You're running up like he's just using it for a political control. That's it. That's it. That's all that's happening.
Yeah. She's the circus clown following around an elephant scooping up his check. She's constantly, she's basically the most overpaid apologist in history other than someone being in the Trump cabinet. Or I was so disappointed by that governor, Sanunu, who went on and when Trump said that you'll never need to vote again. It's always just Donald being Donald. Fuck you. He didn't mean it. That was Elon was also funny. Anyway, you're explaining yourself. You're fucked.
Linda Linda, Jacarino has got is literally moving from irrelevant to less relevant. And it makes her fun story and clickbait. She has almost no influence at that company. She doesn't make any decisions. She has no control over her boss. She's pushing a rock up a hill, trying to call advertisers who my understanding is love her and have had a wonderful experience with her professionally. And saying, Linda, I love you, but there's no freaking way we're getting.
We're pulling up a seat as you call it the Nazi porn bar. Yeah. Nazi porn bar. It's amazing. I mean, I think this is just not a business. I don't know what she's doing there. It's just, I don't really care because I don't really care for her. But it's it's embarrassing. It's an embarrassing way to spend your life. If you're a real ad person, which you used to be,
get a job at a real company. It's difficult. It may be an NBC or a Warner. This is just you're just a ridiculous figure at this point, just a ridiculous side note to this really terrible person. It's it's an example. It's it's embarrassing. Anyway. And as to the families, including Vivian and and the other Sandy, who's Grimes his mother and Grimes Grimes herself supported Vivian by the way. Um, it's really brave of you. I know it sounds silly, but it's brave to speak out. This guy has
unlimited power on accountable power and money and influence. And to do this says a lot of he can come at them in a way that are really dangerous. Um, so and of course, their kids at stake. So uh, good. I admire you for speaking out. And and in the case of Vivian, you're super friggin funny. You're who she's she's really, really funny. One of the things she did, she was talking about not regretting transitioning. Um, and she said to insinuate that I regret it is just plain
false. And she goes on and talks about it. And at the end, those, um, this is which she wrote, this is the last I'm going to touch on that interview where Elon was saying all those false things for the time being at least on this platform. But other people have talked about me and twisted my narrative for profit for multiple years at this point. So I think it's fair. I tried twisting it back with my own my silly little platform now that I have a chance.
Also, if you were sheen to my funeral, you're getting canceled. I know that was funny because it was they, you know, they, he dead named her, he called her dead. And this and that anyway, very funny person. But but if I were, if I were again in the Trump, um, now that vice president Harris is clearly probably going to raise a billion dollars that everybody, all of a sudden everyone's like, yeah, I, I, I'm, I like this idea. I want to put my time,
treasure and talent towards this. They have the firepower now to go after several messaging dimensions. And one of those messaging dimensions should be the following. They should show older Republicans talking about the importance of family family values. And then they should say, we agree. And here think about three families, the Trump family. Musk is now very tightly associated with the right. He's gone red-pilled and the Murdoch's. Look at the family. Okay, Trump. His wife
does not like him. They're not affectionate with each other. They don't really appear to appear to like each other. Musk, let's go there. Let's time go there. It's pretty clear. Musse approach to family dynamics. And then let's talk about the Murdoch family with the kids don't show up with the wedding. And now let's talk about the Biden and Harris families. Right? Talk about, you know what I love about Vice President Harris? She kisses her husband on
the mouth. She's a poor sexy. No, you think they're sexy. I like sexy. I've seen them. They look like they look like they want to have sex. That's a nice thing. The, the, the, the Biden family. I mean, this is a guy who's a family man. So we absolutely should take family values. All this, all this stuff in the 70s and 80s about the importance of family values. Say we agree. And here are family
values. Because if you look at the people really dominating the Trump campaign in terms of influence, I mean, do you want to talk about fucked up blue velvet families dysfunctional, a lack of love and respect? Oh, by the way, one, you know, he keeps talking to a childless women and that we have to like love families and liberals don't love family. Again, JD, I have more children than you do. So you better get to it. Do you have cats? Do you have cats? I have cats. I have a cat. I have a
single cat. Anyway, um, cats are great. And dogs are great too. Let's go in a quick break when we come back. Trump makes an appeal to the Bitcoin bros. We'll speak with a friend of pivot and Apple bound by the rise of autocrats around the world too. Support for pivot comes from mint mobile. When's the last time you paid attention to how much your phone bill costs? Chances are, like most people, you're paying more than you should for wireless
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isn't all about tech. It's about real people providing real defense. When threats arise or issues occur, their team of seasoned cyber experts is ready 24 hours a day, 365 days a year for support. Visit Huntress.com slash pivot to start a free trial or learn more. Scott, we're back. Former president Donald Trump is vowing to turn the US into a crypto capital of the planet. If he returns to the White House Trump spoke at the Bitcoin 2024 conference
in national over the weekend. He vowed to create a national Bitcoin stockpile if elected. If elected, he also pledged to fire SEC chair Gary Gensler on day one who was a real foe to that the crypto people go crazy over him. So he's courting the Bitcoin bros. Kamala's not averse to them at all. Kamala's advisors have approached top crypto-com user reset relations. They want to create a framework for regulation rather than getting campaign donations.
I don't think she's particularly hostile to them. He's trying to, I don't know what he's doing here going for the Bitcoin bros. I just don't feel like it's a constituency that really needs. I don't know. What do you think? The crypto bros, I mean, this is shaping up to be literally in kind of full form
club talk. Let's just be honest about it. We have huge investments in crypto. If you're president and say that you're going to deregulate it or use the treasury or the full faith and credit of the government to endorse Bitcoin sending our Bitcoin investments to the roof, we're going to raise you a shit ton of money. That's indirectly been happening for a long time, but this feels just patently like. If you asked Donald Trump to explain what the blockchain is,
I just don't think he have any ability to say anything about crypto. But what I think would have quite a few well-heeled investors have said is that we'll raise you a shit ton of money, but be clear. This is how we're going to get payback. If you look at it, it's also Gary Gensler. I just would describe it as anti-crypto. He's been thoughtful about it. There's now crypto ETFs. They have not done anything. I mean, just don't. The crypto bros are maximalists and want. Again,
I think it's this sort of this crude sort of I'm with you. I won't be thoughtful about it. I'll just pay you back. Just raise me a billion dollars. That's not supposed to be how government works. We're supposed to elect a bunch of people who've ran a treasury of comments and be thoughtful about regulation and be thoughtful about a good approach to this. But I think the position Biden is anti-crypto and Gensler is anti-crypto. I just don't think that's fair.
Right. Interesting. There's a good story by Sean McCreish who used to work for New York magazine. He was talking about him visiting this Christian group in Palm Beach this week and also in Nashville. And he goes, he begs, he blusters, he makes outlandish promises and his attempts to win over a crowd that is not in Harland zone can be acutely awkward. He just doesn't know anything about this. He just doesn't. He just has been pushed in a certain direction and saying, let's get some money
from these Bitcoin bros. Because I mean, he started by saying hello, Bitcoiners and talking about it. So he just doesn't. He has a portable printer where he prints and moves off the internet in paper forms so we can read it. He doesn't, he doesn't know anything about what he's doing and he just flatters them. He's trying to get money from them. And then he started talking about his third wedding to Melania. I don't even understand.
It was just the weirdest speech. And so he was promising crypto advisory council. He national strategic Bitcoin stockpile firing Gensler, as you said, which is kind of ridiculous. He's just sucking up to them. But what these guys don't realize, they make it a pop in the shorerun over the long term. I believe Bitcoin prices higher with thoughtful regulation that gives retail investors the confidence to invest in what is legitimate asset class. And it may not
get theirs quickly as they'd like. But if you have a total wild west economy around the stuff, you're going to see hacks. And Harris is going to modulate just like she just did on fracking. She's like, I'm not against fracking. She's just did that. So she's going to every time he does something, she's going to modulate and be like, I can, I'll talk to you and stuff like that,
which is I think smart on her behalf. Speaking of smart, the Harris campaign, as you noticed, raised more than $200 million in last week, two thirds of that money is first time donors. Virtual campaign rallies, as you said, are going to, as we mentioned earlier, is a big deal. You're doing white dudes for Harris. Now you're going to be speaking there. This is our time. You know, there's a lot of us. And I'm one of those people and I've been doing, I've been trying, there's a,
what is the difference between an opinion and a value? Is it your willing to sacrifice? And I'm sick of we spent a lot of time talking about Democrats and Harris and how dangerous Trump is. And so now it's time to show people this is a value and commit your time, your treasure, and your talent. My message is threefold. The most important thing to American families, I believe at the end of
the day, is a robust economy. And we would not want to do anything differently in the sense that we have inflation coming down and we have the greatest job growth in history markets are touching all time highs. Let's keep this disco party going. And the greatest chance of keeping that party going are to maintain the current people in place. Our growth has been unbelievable. China has lost shed $6 trillion in market cap. This is still the most, the economy here. And again, Democrats are
ridiculously bad at messaging. The economy here is unbelievable. It's just incredible what the economy has done here. Let's keep it going too. Israel, I believe the only way we have a sustainable piece there is with thoughtful people who bring a bunch of people to the table and are thoughtful about all parties and do diplomacy. Not someone who makes bold macho statements and then like a cat goes to the next dot. Do you realize that Trump said to Netanyahu publicly? Fuck him because Netanyahu
refused to say Biden was an illegitimate president. That's what you're dealing with in the Middle East if Trump is president. And then specifically with respect and then the last point would be the following. I'm the father of two boys. It is impossible for young men around the world not to look up to and model the president. And these are questions I got from my seven and ten year old during the Trump administration. Who is Stormy Daniels? Dad, what do you think is the best nickname that
Trump has come up with? That's not a role model for young men. So one, we want a booming economy, we want a thoughtful measure to standable peace in the Middle East and we want someone our young men and boys can look up to. Yeah, I think that's good. That's good. Don't know Chipotle and I was I'm picking. I'm so indignant. I'm caffeinated. Don't say the word mediocre. If you say the word mediocre, I'll kill you. Oh, Jesus Christ. I'll call this will come for me. The culps will come.
They'll come for me. They come for me. We're getting attacked on Twitter by the tech bros. We're getting attacked on threads by the Democratic cultists. There's no room in the middle. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. And here I am stuck in the middle with you. Oh my god. All right. Okay. How do you how do you assess Kamala Harris's digital strategy? Pretty good. Pretty good. She's really funny. The press releases her hysterical calling them weird and whoever's doing them
is definitely under like 35 years old or 30 years old. It's someone who has some talent at this. I think they're doing really well at stuff they're doing themselves and also the stuff that's being created is a lot of fun. I will say if it matters, but it's actually really fun and well done. I think she's been I think she's been good, but I think the real the real power here is that she has her candidacy has ignited a new generation of creators who are just incredibly talented.
You know, this might be the first kind of what you call every presidency has a different medium, right? Trump was the Twitter presidency. JFK was the JFK was the TV FDR was the radio presidency. This is going to be probably the TikTok or video presidents short form video. And there's just millions of young people who didn't vote in the last election who weren't voting age who are inspired. They're more non-white. They're more progressive, generally speaking, although Trump
picked up a lot of people on the young side. They're still predominantly Democrat. And they're great with these mediums and they're inspired and they're creative and there's just a bunch of cool shit out there. It's really cool to watch it. It's fun. We'll see if it translates into votes, but it certainly is really being well done. Anyway, and I think it's fun. It feels fun is what it is. And especially with her dancing, she's such a better dancer than Donald Trump. She's got a lot
yeah, 100%. Also, she's outstanding. Have you noticed? She's outstanding on a ramp. She really knows how to handle a ramp. Yeah, she knows how to, she dances down a ramp. Anyway, let's bring in our friend of pivot. And Applebaum is a staff writer at the Atlantic and the author of the new book, Autocracy Inc. The dictators who want to run the world. Welcome, Anne. Thank you. So, so let's start with your book, Autocracy Inc. With the one man who wants to rule the world. Let's
start with Donald. There's so much to talk about, including what's happening in Venezuela right now on the left. But let's start with Donald Trump. I want to play some comments. He made your group of Christian voters at an event this weekend and get your thoughts. Christians, get out and vote just this time. You won't have to do it anymore. Four more years. You know what? It'll be fixed. It'll be fine.
You won't have to vote anymore. My beautiful Christians. I love you, Christians. I'm at Christian. I love you. Get out. You got to get out and vote. In four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good you're not going to have to vote. So, Anne, how concerned should people be when they hear those words? You should be concerned because he's trying to get you used to a set of ideas. The ideas are that voting doesn't matter or rather that voting only vote
for him matter. Once he wins, nothing else is important. Whether he's joking or not joking, I don't think it makes that much difference. The point is to a custom audiences to a certain set of ideas. He's not the first person to think of doing that. When you look at it, you talk a lot enough to accuracy about the different techniques that people use. You're your latest piece in the Atlantic. You talk about him being older and more deranged and everything else.
I'd love you to give a sense of where he fits into autocracy ink and explain what autocracy ink is. It's that you were talking last night at your book party that it's a network, not a movement. They're not necessarily all aligned with each other. Yeah, that's exactly it. So what the book describes is a network of autocrats. It's not an alliance. There isn't a secret room where they
all meet and make decisions. We're talking about a specific group of countries who, we're talking about Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Belarus, and a handful of others who are led by people who don't believe that they should have any checks on their power. They should have total impunity. They should be able to do whatever they want. They shouldn't be stopped by media, by judges, by lawyers, by courts, and of course not by voters either. So they have this vision
of absolute power. It's something that they deserve because they represent the people or because they're so great or because they're so wealthy. I mean, they're different, a little bit different justifications in each country. And they're not necessarily linked ideologically, but they share this affinity for absolute power and they seek to help one another in attempts to keep it and
preserve it. And how so? How did they do that? So through, for example, sharing the surveillance technology, watching how one another represses their oppositions, and all of them have activists and oppositions who talk about the rule of law, who sometimes talk about democracy. So they understand those things as they're as they're as their main challenge. And also through their use of our financial system, basically, to steal and launder and keep large amounts of
money. So we're talking about people who are often very, very rich, some of the richest people on the planet. And then I think is one of the things that distinguishes them from some of the more famous dictators of the 20th century. So they're wealthy. They share their wealth. They share their technology. They share their share, they share techniques. And they help keep one another
in power. And of course, Donald Trump is outside of that world now. He does admire it. He talks frequently about how much he would like to be like President Xi or like President Putin. He wrote letters to the dictator of South Korea. We all know those stories. And that's because he instinctively, I don't know if he frames it this way in his mind, but he instinctively admires their ability to get away with whatever they want. Right, which is what he's admiring. How likely
would it be that he could impose this? You taught you warned a lot about this happening. We are much larger and much more diverse country, a bigger country. How likely that this would work in a country like this that we are in now? So I'm not sure that it would work. And I'm pretty sure he would not be able to establish some kind of absolute monarchy or absolute dictatorship. If the federal system alone would block him, the point is that he can do a lot of damage by trying.
So even if he can't succeed and it's not going to, you know, ultimately we will not look like Nazi Germany, he can succeed in hollowing out institutions in making people lose faith in the democratic system. He could make people lose faith in the voting system, which has already happened. I mean, some of this is some of this we're talking about as if it's in the future, but actually it's already with us. It's already begun. And so, you know, and he could persuade people that it's not
so bad to steal an election and we could have people try to steal elections. That could create quite a lot of chaos. You can imagine, you know, play that, play that out down the road. Not just in 2024, but in 2028, imagine that Trump wins now and JD Vance is his vice president. Vance has already said he would have not done what pens did and blocked an attempt to steal the
election. So then already we're in trouble at our next election. So you can see the damage, the chaos, the distraction, the collapse really of any kind of unitary American government as the result of Trump's autocratic wishes and desires. We spend a lot of time talking about or trying to connect Trump's actions with the actions or complexion of an autocrat and and look through history and how bad a Tocracy can can and can you a more interested in what we
can do about it? Can you speak to historically how emerging autocrats have been pushed back? What would be this? What would be the handbook for a democracy repelling a move to autocracy? Who's been successful at staving this off? Well, the polls were successful. Poland, which is a country I live in part of the time, was run between 2015 and last October by an autocratic ruling party that was interested in destroying institutions, much like Viktor
Orbán's Fidesz party in Hungary. And they did manage, there was enough of the system preserved, there was enough of a free election preserved, so that when they ran an election in October, they managed to pull together a coalition and win. And so part of the answer was a coalition. So the coalition that won went from the center left through the central liberals to the center right. People who don't like each other stipulate and don't agree about everything, but agreed that
they had to beat this party, ironically called the Law and Justice Party. Through an enormous amount of civic engagement, people joined, get out the vote teams, they worked on, there was a protest against kind of fake judicial reform that was an ineffective attempt to change the judiciary. The way the ruling party, sorry, the current, who they're now in the current government, campaign, they campaigned everywhere, they campaigned at all levels, at the grassroots level.
We are the broad majority. And these are pieces of the story. There's another piece that's to do with election monitoring, which may or may not be a problem in our election too, probably it will. But it's thinking about the election as a, you know, almost as a political movement rather than just an ordinary election. So it's not just, okay, some people have got to vote. We need everybody to be involved. Yeah, I had thought that Conner someone asked me what I thought I said,
she should go to places they don't like her. That's what she's suspending a lot of time doing, right? Instead of being in places where they go, go girl, right? Like don't go to the go-go places where they just start to see you and kind of like you because you're, you could be likeable, right? And they can sort of see things differently. Right now, of course, there's this election, as we're talking, this fraudulent election in Venezuela, it feels like the authoritarian president, Nicolas Maduro,
claiming victories on the left. Several countries including the US are raising questions about the election calling for transparency in the vote count. Talk about how he fits in a pattern of autocratic leaders. He's not right. He's left, I guess, right? Which I don't quite know what's to call him. And he's left. He's left. He's left. Yeah, no, so it's a very interesting because actually you can you can destroy your democracy from the left or from the right. So the kind of
ideology you use isn't as important as what you do. And actually what Hugo Chavez, who was Nicolas Maduro's predecessor, did in Venezuela, wasn't that different from what Viktor Orban did in Hungary with the polls less successfully tried to do the previous government, the law and justice party tried to do in Poland. Again, destroying institutions undermined the judiciary, suppressing the media in Venezuela. There was actually more violence than there was in
Hungary or Poland. But that was his that was his that was their path to power. It wasn't different just because they they used Marxist sounding language. Doesn't make them doesn't make them any less anti-democratic. So Maduro also fits in in a different sense in that how has he stayed in power? He's very, very unpopular. I mean, actually this election was a landslide. And this will come out in the next couple of days. I've already seen some of the evidence. There's
their the opposition were doing this kind of parallel vote tabulation. They have they have data from precincts. It was a landslide for the opposition. Why haven't the opposition been able to win before? And the answer is that Maduro has been supported by the Russians who invest money in Venezuela by the Chinese who who share surveillance technology with Venezuela by the
Iranians who helped the Venezuelans evade sanctions. And in exchange get the Venezuelans to help they help them get visas for his ball of operatives in Europe by the Cubans who who lend them secret police and secret police tactics. So it's it's almost as if a kind of team of of autocrates this network that I was talking about before has helped them stay in power and watch over the next few
days. They've all that group of countries has already recognized this the false election. And and we'll begin their attempt to maintain him in power. Maintainment power. Can I follow up on that? You you write about Western countries and individuals
who enabled Putin, Trump and others. They knew reporting in the book. And I just finished listening to both a season in the middle of the season of ultra by Rachel Maddow, which is we've had it happen here many time like they tried the America first, the original America first people father, Cogland. They really we they were put on trial. People went, you know, sacrifice a lot of their careers to stop them. What did you learn from the people who enabled these people?
Because it's happened in this country before and they just didn't win. That's all they got close. That they certainly got close enough. So when you when you study autocracies when you look at the different cultures that have produced them, I think what you learn is that no country is exceptional. There are people who would prefer an autocratic system in every country on the planet
including ours. And they prefer it either because they're going to make money out of it or because they're they're more comfortable with the idea of a single leader or because they have come for whatever reasons to dislike their country and its system so much. And in our case, it would be because I don't know it's so woke or it's so multicultural or it's so so different from the America that I grew up in or the America that I want to live in that they are willing to go
along with somebody who wants to destroy it. And that can happen anywhere. What do you see as most hopeful around globally? You mentioned Poland. It looks like Hungary. We don't know how that's going to play out. But when you when you when let's limited to the US, do you see that some of this DC some of the inspiration around or the momentum that a vice president Harris seems to have ignited DC DC any connection between that and people actually fearing and not and move towards
a autocracy or the independent of each other. So here's what I liked about the movement around president Harris. The soon to be president Harris maybe to be president Harris. What I like to candidate Harris. What I liked about it was there was this enormous spontaneous outbursts that have committed it. And it's been written about eight million times. I don't have to repeat it here either the memes and the and and what I liked about it was that wasn't controlled. It wasn't
produced by her campaign. It wasn't a top down organized mass effort. What it meant was that there was a that people got together and did it themselves. And of course that is the definition of civil society and civic engagement. And of course, you know, making a meme online is the cheapest and easiest form of civil engagement. But in addition to that, there's been this enormous number of people signing up to work on her campaign. I mean, civic engagement participation,
that's what makes change and that's what preserves democracy. And if you look at Poland or actually even this Venezuelan election, I don't know what's going to happen or whether they're going to win. But boy was the opposition impressive. You know, the numbers of people who voted, the numbers of people involved and they had an opposition primary, which is, you know, as you can imagine, like everywhere else, very divided opposition. Nevertheless, they came together around one candidate.
She was blocked and they came together and another candidate. So people really determined to be involved in this election and to make change. And and that's that's what you need. I suspect the dangers if they don't get what they deserve here, they'll feel overwhelmed, right? And feel like there's nothing to be done. And that's the worry about a Trump win, for example. If all this excitement is around Harris, and then she doesn't win, people will be like that the air will come out of
the excitement kind of thing. Well, if she, she is president, if she becomes president, how are these autocrats going to deal with a presidency president, Kamala Harris? They tried very hard to stop a president, Hillary Clinton for sure. But it's back essentially this idea of hope of towards a woman candidate, someone who's obviously liberal democracy, etc. So they will as a group put an enormous amount of effort into the selection campaign. They will do propaganda, they will do
social media. They will produce narratives that will be borrowed by Americans. I mean, not all, none of this requires any kind of secret collusion or anything like that. It'll it'll all be out in the open. There may be events that happen, whether in the Middle East or in Ukraine or elsewhere in the world that are designed to throw the election off or designed to help Trump. If we're Harris to win, you would see some of the same. You would see efforts to throw we're off balance,
I think from the very beginning. This is a for some of these countries in particular, I mean, for Russia, this is winner-lose. I mean, they're waiting for this election to resolve the war in Ukraine. So the war in Ukraine, they cannot win unless they're handed a victory, unless the United States says, right, we're not backing Ukraine anymore. And it's much easier for them to win by trying to shape the US election than it is by trying to crawl across heavily mined territory
to Eastern Ukraine. So they have a lot of interest in this outcome and they will and they will be running a campaign just like Harris will. What would be the thing you think they would do if you had to anticipate? There will be a social media campaign. They will join the attempt to smear her or make her look, whether it's using racism or misogyny. They will try to make her look incompetent. As I said, I can't, I don't want to play guessing games. I mean, there could be a hostage situation.
They could negotiate a release of one of the American hostages in Russia with Trump. I mean, there could be tricks played in order to make him look good at her look incompetent. I would just be, I would be on the lookout for it because it's very, very much in their interest for her to lose. There's usually some sort of manifesto or unifying theory around an autocrats rise to power. Do you think 2025 is that handbook? Do you see anything specifically there that feels like
something out of the autocrats handbook? Well, famously, project 2025 is, I mean, borrowed almost directly from what the Hungarians did as far as I can tell. And there are deep links between the Heritage Foundation who wrote it and the Hungarian government. So, you know, taking over the institutions, remove people's rights, you know, alter educational institutions, all those are things that have been done before. And, you know, they, they, they, and Hungary, they were done peacefully.
I mean, they were done largely legally either, either through breaking norms or fiddling around the law or changing the constitution. And I imagine there are people around Trump. I mean, who knows what he himself thinks. And that seems to be their goal. And as I said, I mean, it sounds crazy. And maybe they can't do it. Maybe it won't work, but it will create a lot of chaos if they try it. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Anyway, and it's a terrific book. I've read it. It's
fantastic. The book is a talker-see ink. The dictators who want to run the world and good fucking luck boys. We'll see if you can do it. Thank you. Thanks, Sam. All right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Fox creative. This is advertiser content from Zell. So I'm on this job-listing site and I get a message from a recruiter for a small shipping company. The recruiter said all I needed to do was send $500 to cover a mandatory software training. And
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Instagram, WhatsApp, Facebook and Messenger. Just tag meta AI in your chat or tap the icon in the search bar to get started. It's the most advanced AI at your fingertips. Expand your world with meta AI. Today explain Sean Ram is firm standing outside of the White House to ask Americans how they feel about a historic moment. They're president dropping out of the presidential race. Mixed feelings, I think it's sad but overall I think he might be making the right decision.
I'm sad to see him drop out but I think it needed to be done. So I think like hopefully it brings out more young voters. Joe Biden is considered as an anti-cris. I wanted to stay in this way I know Trump would have won. Now it's up in the air. But I just feel like he's America ready for a woman and also a black woman. So that's what scares me. I just don't really see Kamala or really anyone else being a Bible threat to Trump. Kamala, Kamala. We need the facts man. I don't know.
You know what I mean? I think it's some fishy going on but you know don't pull me. Yeah. I'm gonna quote you. We're gonna ask Vox's Andrew Prokop and David Axelrod how they feel on today explained. Amen. Okay Scott, let's do some wins and fails. Shall I start? I'll go first. Go first. Go ahead. I'll go first. So I'll start with my fail. I think vice
president Harris should have showed up for it and yeah, who's comments. I think she needs to take the Israel issue from Republicans because I think Harris and Biden should be more strident in beat their chess a little bit more about how America has been under Biden and Harris administration has been more supportive of Israel when it counted than any nation in the world. And I thought I think it was a mistake for her to be visibly absent there. But the real fail
was Netanyahu's comments. He's basically endorsed Trump. On Friday, Prime Minister Netanyahu suggested that US Vice President Kamala Harris's comments on the humanitarian situation in Gaza, my open quote, hinder a deal for the release of hostages. So he's basically gone all in on Trump. World leaders do not criticize. Typically, I candid it like that. He's gone all in on Trump. And Netanyahu in my view continues to to be terrible for Israel because again, basic scenario
planning. Right now, the race is a toss up. His comments should have been the following. We had a a frank and productive conversation. Stop talking because these are these are people too. And if if Harris wins for him to go all in on Trump, that's just not a thoughtful way to present or position your nature or position your nation for continued alliance that is arguably one of the strongest in
the world. So I think it was a tactical mistake for Vice President Harris to give the Republicans a wedge issue around to say, you know, they immediately couched her actions and comments as anti-Semitic, which they were not. If you look at what she said, she said the following, we are their steadfast ally. They have a right to defend themselves. We need to be empathetic to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. That is not an unreasonable thing to say. But she's given them, she gave them
fodder by not showing up. She should have showed up there. She's not afraid of anybody. But the real the real fail is it for those of us who are hoping for a sustainable peace. Like many Israelis realize Netanyahu has been a fucking disaster for Israel. And he continues to do stupid things hoping hoping he's making a big bet on Trump. As a world leader, you do not
make one bet. You do not flip a coin and endorse a candidate. Because if you know if Harris does win, that's just not a good idea to alienate the leader of the strongest nation in the world, who has a 50% probability of being elected. He just could have, if he'd been more focused on the long-term health of his nation, he would have been more thoughtful in his comments. My win, simply put, is the Olympics. There's just so many wonderful inspiring moments. First off,
Paris, the home of luxury, they just know how to put on a show. I mean, whether it's those rings, did you see those rings of people running on top of town at Polavard, Celine Dion's open at the opening ceremonies. And Simone Biles gets all the warranted attention. She's just a phenomena. But there's also so many cool stories. I could, gosh, I thought you'd mention the three, some, the three, some that they were the clown three, some, but go ahead.
I don't know if I'm getting her name right, but Hedelian Diaz, one of the Philippines first ever Olympic gold medalists in weightlifting. Oh my God. I've been seeing TikToks in slow motion. Can you imagine how much it means for her and her family and the Philippines doing the first gold medal? That was, I loved watching that to talk. And then my favorite was, I think it's called Team Cook and Embacon. The US duo of Sarah Bacon and Cassidy Cook were nearly flawless
in their five dives. The women synchronized three meter springboard finals to win a silver medal. They're like best friends who have put their life on hold to the late 20s. Bacon made the team this year on her fourth trip to the trials, right? The fourth is kind of probably our last time to get to the Olympics and Cook returned to her second Olympics after finishing 13th. I mean, these two women have been in a pool on a pool diving into the water together five hours a day for
the better part of a decade and what, you know, shocker their best friends. That must have been such a nice moment for them and their families. But as the Olympics is sort of waned in terms of viewership, I really think it produces some really wonderful emotional moments. I've just really, I've really, I've really, I think Comcast is doing it. Amanda's a big Olympic lunate. She loves watching the Olympics and she's been using the peacock app and stuff and not all the, as she loves,
it's, it's well done. They've done a great job. Mark Lazarus who runs it. Fantastic. It's interesting to say that because if you watch it on NBC, it's frustrating because it's someone else picking that you're going to watch swimming now. Whereas on the peacock app, you can pick the sport you want to watch. So if you're super into surfing, you can just watch surfing. So I actually, it for me, the Olympics in terms of media consumption really highlighted how powerful streaming is.
They're streaming. They've done, they didn't do such a good job last Olympics. They've done a Mark Lazarus really improved. I didn't know what's him. He's done a great job. But the, anyways, my win is, my win is the Paris Olympics. I think they're doing a great job. Yeah. Okay. My win is, I gotta say, there's, there's a New York Times story about this, but the fighting in Silicon Valley between all the rows on each side of this thing is just, they're yelling at each other.
Just the wars that are going on between the teams, essentially, Benaud Kozla and Vied Hoffman and and some and Reed Hastings versus versus David Zagson, Neelon and I guess, Chamath is somewhere in the fucking metal. Who knows what that guy, such a clown. What have they all been about? I read about this. I couldn't care less. They're, they're worrying about different deals like anyway,
they're talking about their behaviors. So all this stuff that's been getting, getting, getting just been under the covers in Silicon Valley is now out in the open and they're all warring with each other. Who cares what they're, they're all about deals 20 years before. Like I covered actually. And so I'm really enjoying the bro on bro, tech bro on tech bro fighting.
I'm just, and it's not, it's nothing to do with me. Like I'm like sitting back and going, you see, they, they just, it's just enjoyable and I shouldn't, it's not, it's not shot and broied, but I still am enjoying, enjoying it. It's a win for Karras, for sure. Those guys are definitely doing too much. Yeah. I have to say my name is Katamane. I think it's cocaine. I think those guys are doing a little too much of the devil's dandruff. They're partaking in
the white girl interrupted powder. If you know what I mean, Kara, those people, they, we could like guys who are like, well, not all of them. I wouldn't say. But why would they do that? Why would they shit post each other on Twitter? I don't get it. They just love to do. It's just like going crazy. It's about literally stuff. Scott 30, 20 years ago, I found one of my stories
on one of the issues they were talking about. They're just like, and largely because I'm sorry, a lot of the people that are arguing, David Sacks is not a, in any way, a particularly successful entrepreneur compared to the rest of them. And so that he, they think they're annoyed by him in that regard. And I, you know, it's sort of like your least talented entrepreneur is acting like he's all that. And I think that's what's going on there. In any case, it's enjoyable to watch.
And I have, I did not create it. I had nothing to do with it. And I can just enjoy it from the sidelines. Not to me, but I'm enjoying it. My, my win is Vivian Jenner Wilson, who is the daughter of Elon Musk. I think she's very funny. She's handling a lot of these issues around her father, who is a terrible, terrible parent, with a lot of class and humor and seems very funny. And I just, I'm really, she's, she's speaking up for herself, but she's not doing it in a way that is angry.
It's, it's angry enough, but it's certainly funny, truthful. You can feel, you can feel her, her talking. And I really, I don't usually love these brawls like this brawl. I kind of like, because she's getting there. She's telling that her truth, her narrative, and she's reclaiming it. He's using her as a prop and to make points in about the woke, woke mind virus. And it's, it's been heinous to watch how he behaves towards trans people. And she's a real person and is
taking control of her narrative. And I always love to see it and she's doing it with a wit and humor. And it's a really, you know, it says a lot about her mom, who she's talked about, Justin, who raised her. And I really, it's really nice to see, it's really nice to see some of defend themselves against, you know, constant attacks by someone who has, is, his father in name only. Anyway, that's my win. Oh, also, I forgot to mention, Vance's attacks on women who get cats.
Really, it's not only not nice. It's, it's totally inaccurate. You know that there's research showing that older women, they actually start getting dogs. It's called manny paws. Oh my god. Makes me happy. I don't care. Bring it on Twitter. Just go on the scene. No, I'm going to move on. I've been waiting for an opening. I'm sure I will post a picture of a sunset. I know. I will pose like a beautiful sunset in San Francisco. And I go, do you know what Scott did?
I just love creating trouble for you because people have given up on me. They know I'm tasteless that they come after you. I just ruined your day. I'm at a nice moment, retweeting like a cooking video. I love it. What about Scott? I'm like, get out of my pasta making tweet, like, or whatever, thread. Get out of my pasta thread. We're telling my brothers out there when your wife's being a little bit upset at you. Just stop and say, is this the manny paws speaking?
See what happens. Okay. This is it. This is it. We're doing a divorce. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question from the show. We're called 85551 pivot. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Read us out. Today's show was produced by Larry Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Growth, and Ernie Tittot.
Engine new this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Meal Savario. You shot Kuroa's Fox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen podcasts. Thanks for listening to pivot from York Magazine of OxMeta. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. How do you stay off an autocrat civic engagement?
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If you've been enjoying this podcast, here's a look into what else is happening at New York Magazine. I'm Corey Seka and I'm here with Reeves Wideman who has written about the American obsession with NDAs. Where did they come from? Why are they everywhere? And are they good for anything besides covering up for abusers? After you've poked around NDAs for a while, do you see NDAs used mostly as tools of abuse and coercion? You see positive results like where did you land on
NDAs? I think in most situations, it is used as a way to sort of claim power, but not even necessarily to do a bad thing. It's just kind of, it is now this sort of boring standard tool in the toolbox of corporations or powerful people. But now it's being used on the people at the bottom. It's the warehouse workers at Amazon being made to sign them or I was just trawling job listings while doing the story and there were NDAs for forklift drivers and people working in butcher shops.
And I think on the one hand, it's just kind of like, well, I might as well. There's no downside for me to do this. But it is also just another way that you sort of keep your employees or people you get into a relationship with that you sort of keep your thumb on them. So I do think it is at the end of the day, the people who are giving them out by and large are trying to control someone. Do you think that they're going to become standard for like literally every interaction and job
interview and possibly relationship as well? Or do you think they're just finally going to die or become outlawed? Like where do we go from here? You know, it was corporations first. Then it was celebrities. Then it was just rich people who aren't famous, but they also want to protect their privacy. The next frontier is people like you and me and and are we going to start giving them to their partners? You know, I think some people are going to start start experimenting with it.
It doesn't take much to go online, download a free NDA and without even consulting a lawyer and hand it over to someone. I did as a joke, send one to my girlfriend. She hasn't signed it yet, but I at least sent it. So that's Reeves Widermint, who may or may not be single soon. You can read his work on NDAs in our beautiful print magazine in your own home or on nymag.com slash lineup.