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They're not just any bank. They are city. Learn more at city.com slash we are city. At CITI.com slash we are city. Hey, this is Sean Elling. This week I talked to psychologist Paul Bloom about what makes us happy. You ask people how much do you work to become happy and then get their answer and ask them how happy are you? The answers are negatively correlated. The pursuit of happiness is a miserable pursuit.
It's like probably trying to be really good at kissing gets in the way of being good at kissing. Here more of my conversation with Paul Bloom this week on the gray area. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher and Scott. I'm sorry for being late to our taping today. I apologize.
So you want me to ask why and then you get to name drop. No, you don't you don't have to. I'm just going to you don't have to name drop. I apologize. I was taping another thing and I'm late too, but I you're always late. And so I but not this. Oh, that's a very sincere apology. I'm going to apologize and you're always late. Yeah, thank you for that. That was very meaningful and very hard.
Well, you flex and you do exercise. As people don't know before you start the show, Scott always does like a manly exercise thing for all of us. It's very exciting. I didn't know you could see that. Oh, yeah. That's fine. The next thing I'm going to find out I have an only fans account that I didn't know about. I bet you can make some dough doing that. So where are you today? I just got back from San Francisco into Toronto. I was traveling. Yeah, I'm glad. I don't know.
You must travel at night. I never you're always not worried. I do. I do. I go to I'm open O dark 100 hours tomorrow. I take the Paddington train, which I love or the Paddington Express, Heathrow Express, which is fantastic. I love infrastructure. That's one thing I love about a government that spends too much money on infrastructure or taxes at a fair amount. I love the infrastructure that comes from that.
And then I go to LA for my friends Eddie Blau and David Frey is 50th birthday, which I'm super excited about. I'm going to see my. Good friends. Kings, Browdy, Flash, all our all our fraternity friends and all their kids. And then I'm in LA. I don't know if you heard, but I sold an original scripted trumpet in that place. That's why I was waiting for you to go. Yes. You're going to do a development meeting. I'm in a writer's room. I don't even know what that means.
It's like, do we have a bunch of people from Harvard in a room and like triumph this dark comic? There's snacks. There's snacks. I'm super excited. I'm just going to go well out. Though I can't wait. I just hope I just hope this that someone from who's in the union is there and I'm just going to keep on. Well, AI says. I can't wait to do that. That makes me so glad. What we're having trouble with this dialogue. Let me see what Claude says.
We do that. I'll pay you five dollars to do. There you go. And then I go back to New York. I'm hanging there for a while, which I'm really excited about. I or going to hang out. We're doing a fancy party with Joanna Coles or something. No, we're doing an interview. Who are we interviewing? She's interviewing us about our deep and abiding relationship. Actually, I went to I did a lot of events, including one where everybody asked me about you. Scott.
It was crazy in Toronto. Canadians love us. Let me just say love. Yeah, I was such a nice city. But it is. It really is. I was there for a New York minute. But I was actually mostly in San Francisco. I did the I injury the four people running for mayor of San Francisco, which was interesting. I was interesting for me. Okay. And I interviewed you, Val Herari, who has a new book out about AI. Wow. He wrote Sapiens. I don't like listening to him about AI. He's scared of it.
Really? Yeah, he's scared of it a little bit scared of it. Yeah. But he was great. It was a lot about historical stuff. Though that was this history of information, so he's a historian by training. So it was really fascinating. Did you know what the best selling book of the Gutenberg age was? It was not science. It took 200 years for science books to really get out there. It was a thing called the hammer of witches. And it was a book about how to kill witches.
And it was the best that are written by a crazy person named Heinrich. And I can't remember his last name. But everything in it resonates today. It was the very first QAnon document. And it was because of the Gutenberg printing press. It was not it was it's that's what he was making the links between today's modern internet. Everything was conspiracy theories when printing press started.
So and we don't remember that and people died. 10,000 people were killed in these witch hunts. Cuzz of this book. Anyway, just kind of interesting kind of interesting. He was very very. Did you read sapiens? I did. I had to because all the tech bros loved it. I loved it. It was I think it's outstanding. It is. I you know, I had taken a lot of those courses in college. And so it was amazing when I would go around because all the tech bros loved it.
Did you know this about development of humanity? I go I did I took a college course. They hadn't taken history or anthropology or sociology, which was interesting. But I thought he pulled it together beautifully. He's a I was glad they read it. He's great. He's he's terrific. Anyway, you want to hear my. Sure. Go ahead. So every year my father until recently got something off his bucket list. And every year he picked the same thing.
He wanted to go to Toronto to see opening night at the air Canada Center of the Leafs versus the Habs being Montreal Canadians. And when for some reason they have bagpipers at opening night of the Leafs and they come out on the ice and my dad just melts down and cries for some reason. I didn't you know didn't cry when he left me and my mom but he cries when bagpipers come out on ice. Well, bagpipers are very sad.
That is very sad. And he does the same thing. And because he doesn't remember he's done it every got him here. He goes like I got to take you somewhere special and we got in a cab and we go to this place. And we walk down the scene. He's like grabs my hand. He's like, oh yeah, it just wait. He points to this braggtab apartment building. He goes, look up the reflores. See the air conditioner right there. And he's like, that's what you are conceived.
Yeah, I know we've done this every year for five years and it's still awkward. Have you done it this year? Have you done it this year? No, he has minimal travel for years. So, but he loves. I can take you. Yeah, that goes from awkward to worse. I do a Toronto though. I go to Toronto with you. It's a great city. Yeah, all right. Well, they want us to come back there and do stuff. And I also went to Berkeley, high school. They want to go there.
How was that? Yes. They thank you for your money. They thank you for your money. It was great. The students were fantastic. I had a full house talk and stuff. But they were like, when are we going to have Scott and Cara together here? I said, well, money bags and I will come next year.
Well, it's changed my life. It's a business school. Generally speaking, this is very ductive. One of the nice things about Haas is that I think as someone who knows a lot of people in and around the business community, it attracts nice kids. Yeah, very nice kids. Great. They really try and find kids who are humble, who may become from less economically,
have been taged as backgrounds who just kind of are crazy, crazy smart. And every time I go there, I'm just struck at how the University of California manages and Berkeley manages to attract a really neat kid. They were. They want to do good. They weren't. There was very little douche bag or even none whatsoever. Really lovely kids. Great questions.
They're more, I think they're less like on the make that from other business schools. If that makes sense, there's a sort of. You mean like a school of rhymes with Stanford? Yeah, yeah, that one. But I think it's it's a I had a lovely time with these students, but they love you, Scott. All the way. I appreciate that. Thanks for signing. Yeah, we'll have to go there and do some.
It's my education change my California tax. Certainly are appreciative. The money that you've given is being split, right between. I gave I gave I to join program. Thank you for asking. It's a joint program between UCLA and Berkeley to focus on continuing education, which is a fancy way of saying vocational programming.
I want my money to go to something where there was no admissions anyone could just show up and sell on my life. And it would be free and it would be focused on jobs and real economy nursing cybersecurity construction. And it's the first of its kind and that the chancellor's chancellor's block and now chancellor, Lions, it was chancellor Chris came together to do a joint program. It took us two years to figure it out.
But I'm just super. It's like a overdue nod to California taxpayers who put in the started has it has it's starting our quote unquote first class of like 120 or 200 kids. And so I'm going to continue the education programs this year, but it's I love it because it's super unsexy. And it has the things I want I want free and I want it to be accessible and I want it to be focused on I don't want to say young men but young adults who aren't cut out for traditional four year liberal arts degree.
And I do that's doing about it both places where I'll interview about this about that will do that will like talk about their both have you so much time you so I. I have I love it is beautiful. I mean they're both just they're just they're both just the you walk around campus. Of course I took my sons there and they're both like I want to go to you so I'm like.
Well, just so you know you're not getting in because I don't know if you heard this hard. It's hard to use you like it's a hundred fifty five thousand applications a year now. And I do begrudgingly respect this. The both chances told me on the eve of my actual donation they said we just need to be straight with you your kids aren't getting in. It's actually more difficult now for the children of donors to get in and.
It is and California just said that legacy. No legacy for the private school. Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that. Yeah anyway it was they love you there. It's a great thing anyway today. Well, there's a lot we're going to talk about political and economic impacts of Hurricane Helene. Our new evidence in the federal election case from Donald Trump really disturbing evidence actually and not that it'll matter.
And I'll listen to question this week comes from someone who wants a dating advice from me and Scott that's not a good idea. But first. Get it wrong. Gasker. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's easy. Let's wait. That's what if she has what the relationship is like with her father. She says anything positive. Move along. Move along.
Okay. All right. First, the biggest VC deal ever former nonprofit entity open AI and I say former just pulled in six point six billion dollars in its latest fundraising round bringing evaluation of a hundred and fifty seven billion dollars before this funding deal came through open AI reportedly expected about five billion
billion dollars in losses a year on three point seven billion dollars in revenue open a is currently a capped profit company under the terms of this new investment round it has two years to fully transform into a four profit business or it's finding will convert to debt obviously transform. We talked about this a lot less week in fact they wrote me and said just make sure Scott sees this they seem to like what you have to say.
What does it mean for the rest of the AI market I mean it's sort of winners and losers at this point right that's a lot of money the new wind tell is open video open AI and Nvidia control open video I like that.
How about they can show 70 70 and 92% of their markets respectively just as yeah technologies have a zero to 60 time much faster now the zero to do up there monopolies happening and I'm not sure but I think in video may have even invested in this round the thing that struck me about this round is someone who invest does these types of investments is obviously there was so many people looking to crowd into this round.
There are a couple things so many people trying to get into this round that the leads on it in the bigger investors including thrive were able to create essentially different terms or different classes stock they have they have investment rights or pro rata rights that the other investors in the same round have and that's really non kosher and not.
Not cool because what you're doing is the whole idea of an investment in around is that you're all taking a similar risk and so when some investors get most favorite nation status in other words they get better terms.
That's really unusual because what an investor will ask you when you're raising money is they'll say and I got asked us a lot because I was raising a lot of money in the 90s and 2000s am I getting the same terms as every investor because what they don't want to find out is other investors
are getting all sorts of additional sweeteners and thereby learning the valuation and they were the dumb money following the people who got a better deal and these guys were able to pull that off the other the other. Just be clear that's Joshua Kushner who is the brother of this the smart one I would say that would go who's an outstanding VC in his own right he is indeed the absolute impressive lovely guy.
And the he's the Kushner we like the other one lots of you know the other one was my student and I think he's actually a really nice kid and also just to be fair I don't think he gets enough credit for the Abraham Accords I think that was actually pretty one bright spot in the Trump administration anyways the other the other observation is that.
Companies now you just want to have a company worth 150 billion still private but what's happened is because of there's so much capital now in the private markets. And these guys look at Google and they look at meta and think as we see is why did we let the main street get all of this upside will just keep it private longer and the employees and the CEO like it because they can have additional compensation they can sell their shares they don't have to do these pesky things called earnings and
the schools so unfortunately a lot of the upside has been transferred from retail investors to private institutional investors you never would have to company at 150 billion raising 6 billion dollars in the private markets and the bad news is that again it's another transfer of wealth. than the people who are already wealthy from the people. Google and Meta have made a lot of middle-class people a lot of money. But where do you, I'll give you an example, Airbnb.
Airbnb's an amazing company, right? Amazing. Anyone, any retail investor who bought it on the first trading day of the IPO has lost money because what IPO's are becoming to a certain extent is the last stop when all the juice has been squeezed. When everyone around the table goes, you know what? No one's going to pay a higher price. I know let's go to stupid retail investors as opposed to a financing event. Anyway, thank you for my TED Talk. Yeah, I would agree.
Though all the rich get richer, I think that's what you're exactly saying. So what does it mean for the rest of the market? I think it means that they're going to pull ahead, right? They have now have the advantages they need to move forward. I'm fascinated by it. I've had an MRI. I uploaded my MRI. I'm uploading and to see what they suggest, what kind of exercises I should do.
I uploaded, I just had blood in urine test on and I uploaded the results to say, how should I change my diet and my lifestyle? I am just, quite frankly, I'm just fucking fascinated by AI right now. And I think it's remarkable. You know the questions. Well, you know what I did is I uploaded a bunch of our notes in our scripts. And I said, please put together a script for this week based on current events and tech and business.
And then I went over to another and I said, trying to attach a voice on it. I'm trying to basically replicate pivot and see how close we can get. Yeah, we've seen some bad versions of it. Oh, it's not. It's still awkward. The inflection, the humor, it's still very anodine. But it really just starts to, it starts to blow, blow your mind. But look, it does. It does. Someone, someone I, when I was with, uploaded something like that, your stuff and asked what she would ask, Cara Swisher.
And it was a dick joke. Or what a pain, what would a lesbian's note was what a lesbian's do when they have sex. I think that was what came out of it. Let's answer there. It does it involve Riverdale or strap on or movies about German. That's what it knows of you. That's what you've been doing. Silver road. Silver road. And it's surprisingly accurate. Anyway, we're moving on. We're moving. I can't get out of this. All right. Another story. Tesla stock.
That was down 4% after posting its third quarter production deliveries report on Wednesday. The company global sales of cars and trucks rose a little bit, but fell short of Wall Street expectations. It was 6.4%. Deliveries increased by 28,000 compared to the same quarter last year. They've been cutting prices too. Plants too. It bail its Robo Taxi. It a much anticipated marketing event. Pretending they're in the Robo Taxi business.
Meanwhile, Waymo is all over the streets of San Francisco and other states. I don't know if demand's coming back. I just think they're just declining market share, right? Because there's competitors, essentially. So I'm second talking about Elon. Let's go back to Lesbians. So. Okay. All right. Okay. I saw this data out of the UK, which I think you'll find interesting. Okay. Divorce rates among gay men, 24%, divorce rates and heteronormative marriages, 44 to 48% the data was unclear.
Divorce rates among gay couples, lesbian couples. Guess what it is? 5%. 72. Well, really. So I thought it was fascinating. I'm writing a book on masculinity. I wanted to understand more about what happens when a man after a... Well, I got a lesbian divorce. But go ahead, yeah. After a divorce, men are four times as likely to kill themselves. In the few years after a divorce, a man becomes eight times more likely to kill himself.
Anyways. But so I started trying to figure out what factors bring divorce energy to a divorce. And it's mostly money. But also, I looked at this data and I said, do women bring divorce energy? And you can't make that assumption from the 24 to the 48 from the gay men to the heteronormative because I think what's happened and there's a lot of evidence of this. I find this shit fascinating. I think you will too.
As women make more money, the assent or the slope of the increase in their earnings has not been matched by the increase in domestic responsibilities that the male partner has taken on. Some marriage on a lot of levels day to day for a lot of women. It's like, okay, I'm making as much or more money than you now. I'm as good a provider. And quite frankly, you're not picking up the slack. This is just too fucking much for me. Someone told me that. And I said, that resonates.
But where it falls down is that once you go to two women, the divorce energy is really, really high. What are your thoughts as a lesbian? Oh, wow. Well, today is my fourth anniversary of the man does. So happy anniversary, honey. It happens to be today. But anecdotally, does that feel right or wrong? I don't know. Some of them have been together long.
Some have been, I think women are just, I think if they're unhappy, they move along and they don't like, it's easier for a man to stay in an unhappy marriage in a woman, I would imagine, right? Or in the case of gay men, they are much looser around their standards with each other, right? They have a little more. You mean they get it? They invite in third parties? They talk like that. They talk like that.
I just, that's my experience with gay men is that they, they're more loose in their standards. And I don't, I'm not judging their standards. It's just that they just don't, they don't get all twisted as much as straight couples do. And the case of lesbian, I don't know this. I didn't realize this. When you say twisted, you mean about the notion of them having sex outside of the partner show? I think it's a little less, the expectations are lower, I guess.
And again, I don't judge the expectations. I think that straight people are really in a vice of expectation almost constantly because of movies, because of, you know, movies do a number on you people. Advice of expectation. Kariswisher, you are good. You have a good turn of phrase. I like that. I like the expectation. You can, you may use it. But it's, I think they just, I used to watch all these movies about straight people and the marriages.
I actually, I just watched nobody wants this on Netflix, which is Adam Brody and Kristen, what's her name? Oh, she's fantastic. She was in Frozen. And it's about dating in Los Angeles. And I actually like it because it's honest about straight people dating a little bit more than. You're the take away. I'm fascinated by dating. I just, that people have these romantic ideas born by Hollywood. Oh. You know what I mean? Come true. It's some Kristen, Kristen Bell. Bell, yeah. She's wonderful.
It's a huge hit right now, although I don't understand how someone could live in Los Angeles and not know what the word shicks is as a, as a Christian or whatever. Like she's great. She's great. She's great. It's a really interesting and hard look at dating, but it's good actually, but it's also delightful and they're beautiful people. So it's very attractive. Um, you want to hear my Kristen Bell story? Okay. Go ahead. Go away away from Tesla. Go ahead. I will hear you. I will hear you.
Okay. He sucks. Tesla blah blah blah. The company's overvalued boom. We're dumb of Tesla. Okay. All right. So I went on DAX Shepherd armchair expert, which is like one of the 10 biggest podcasts in the world. Yeah. He does. And he and his co-hosts, I'm blanking out a name, super lovely, super nice. He and I were talking about working out and relationships and we really hit it off. He sent me a text message and I'm like, oh my god, I'm friends with DAX Shepherd.
And my producer said, we got to get DAX on our podcast and he agreed. And in that morning, I fucked up as I do often and I forgot that my kid had a spring concert and I had to cancel on DAX like two or three hours before he was due. And he wrote back, understood, but I need you to know I'm not going to do this again. I'm out. This was totally inappropriate, which I very much respect. And I'm so bummed and I was too ashamed to like reach out and apologize. And it was DAX. I'm sorry.
I still want to be friends. Why don't you text him back? Oh my god. I'm just taking back. I'm just embarrassed. Oh, come on. I'm just embarrassed. I'm in the vice of expectations of a head-on normative male friendship. Write him back. What is wrong with you? I don't know. Oh my god. You know what you know it is at me. Yes. Bad dad, bad friend and one suit. You know what the problem is. I'm going to bring it back to you. I'm for one second. Puffery. Corporate Puffery. Yeah, he just got off.
He just got off. He just got off. Yeah. Puffery. Tax. Let me back in. I'll be at the Beverly Hills Hotel. That's the four five nights. I'm going to hire Shelfs and you. And you canceled on him. And someone on a lower shelf cannot cancel on a higher shelf person. It's just, and he's like, what the fuck? I'm going to buy myself a higher shelf. A higher shelf. Tax is a point of view. I buy it. Tax is higher shelf. From a podcast point of view. From a podcast point of view. But what a hold on.
But other than having a bigger podcast, doing much more handsome and much more talented and wealthy than me, how is he higher shelf? He's higher shelf. He just was like, you're wasting my time. Yeah. Tax on a shelf. Elf on a shelf. Yeah. I didn't handle that. I don't care. Yeah. I think he need to do this. We'll make a video for Jack Shepherd. Look into the camera right now and say, Jack's, I am so sorry. All right. Hold on. Ready? Jack's, I am so sorry.
Boom. That's what you call relationship repair. Evolve man in touch with his feelings. None of that lesbian divorce straight over here. No, no. All right. Okay. All right. Well, should we talk about that? No, no. I was just going to say actually he did a federal judge dismiss a lawsuit in accusing Tesla and Musk of defrauding shareholders. The suit was sent around Musk claim that Tesla's autopilot and full self-driving technology could drive safer than humans.
The judge said the claims amounted to corporate puffery. What's, I don't care about Elon. What is corporate puffery? That's the thing. Exaggeration, bullshit, spin, whatever these companies. I mean, there's that. Speaking of offer this, he did. He was pretty insistent. You know what? At some point, constant puffery becomes like small case fraud. I don't know. When does it cross the line?
But trying to predict when a technology is going to arrive, I can see him saying, look, I generally was hoping a thought it would arrive. The most interesting thing I think about Tesla right now is that we talked too much about Tesla. The auto company that it's gotten a right for the last two or three years, it's not Tesla. It's Toyota because the biggest thing in auto over the last two years is a recognition by the public that it's not about EVs. It's about hybrids.
And EV sales were up single digits and hybrid sales were up hugely double digits. And who people are moving that? Who did not get seduced by EVs, unlike Ford and General Motors hoping to be more Tesla-like Toyota? And Kia. Is that right? Kia has, I have a Kia hybrid. But basically consumers are waking up to the fact, let me get this. I get the benefits of electric without the need for charge stations. And I get at a lower cost. It's called hybrids.
I think hybrids are quite frankly the future of auto, not EVs. And the consumer is fond of EVs. I think people eventually get to EVs. I think it's one of these things that's going to go through that. But you're right, people are slowly moving that direction. And they will then feel more comfortable with EVs. I have a lot of people asking about EVs because I have one of these. Sales are booming. And Toyota, I mean, just to give you a sense for a ride. You may find them, I Kia hybrid.
I just want to know. Well, wait a minute, just talk about your magic and pay for a Discover Card and boom. No third marriage for you. Kia hybrid. So rent out. But get this. Toyota, which I believe is not growing faster than Tesla, has a price earnings ratio of nine, Tesla is 72. I mean, price to sales. Toyota trades at 0.9 times sales. Tesla trades, depending on the numbers you're looking at, somewhere between seven and nine times sales.
And they are making a better car that's more in tune with consumer demands right now that puts better to how consumers want to interface with electric without the charging infrastructure nightmare. And it trades at a one of these companies is under or overvalued. Yeah. So one of the things they're working on is vertical lift and take off stuff too. Interesting. They have e-tails. They're involved in that too. Anyway, they're a very smart company. But let's get to our first story.
Voters are split 50-50 after Governor Tim Walls and dissed at a JD Vance face-off and a VP debate on Tuesday according to a political poll. The 2 VP candidates discuss immigration abortion and other election tokens. People kind of like that. They said it was civil and interesting.
During the conversation, although there were some moments, during the conversation on immigration moderators cut the mics at both candidates when Vance interrupted to say the host were not supposed to be fact checking him per debate rules. He shouldn't have done that. He looked like an idiot. Another standout. No, you look strong, Nicaraghan. No, he didn't. He looked dumb. Like just answer the question. They said they weren't going to fact check. And that was fact check.
No, they didn't quite say that. They didn't. It was it was none necessary. They said at the beginning of the debate, we're not going to fact check and they fact check and he called them out for it. No, not the people didn't like that. They just stand out moment Vance refused to answer the question whether he believes Trump lost the 2020 election. This was a weak point which walled called in damning non-answer. But also again, it was noticeably more civil than presidential debates.
A lot of people were noting on that. Let's listen to a moment during the closing remarks. Well, I've enjoyed tonight's debate. And I think there was a lot of commonality here. And I'm sympathetic to mispeaking on things. And I think I might have with the center. Me too, ma'am. Yeah, it was actually interesting. It sort of normalized JD Vance, I think, because it's a very dangerous. It's a dangerous character. But what are your overall takeaways? You go first. The biggest winner here was America.
It demonstrated how our elected representatives are supposed to equip themselves. They were respectful. They didn't interrupt each other a lot. I thought Margaret and Nora Donald, Margaret Brennan did an fantastic job. And it just made me feel better about being American. And it contrasted the chaos and bullshit and childlike behavior that happens when Trump is in any room or in something like a debate. The next biggest winner was JD Vance.
He came across as very intelligent, reason, thoughtful, his agility around. I mean, you got to keep in mind. He's playing with a much worse hand than walls. Walsh can say to him, hey, does your boss believe that Biden won the election? And Vance was able to say, well, okay, first off, Hillary Clinton didn't. I believe there was election front. Give me some running room. He counters with Hillary Clinton did the same thing and censorship is worse. Okay, you're right.
That is the mother of all false equivalences. Secretary Clinton showed up at the inauguration and she conceded, right? Censorship is fucking ridiculous and there's red hairing. Anyone who claims censorship won't shut the fuck up and has a top podcast in his everywhere. But I got to give it to the guy. He took, he took chicken shit and made it mostly chicken salad. And given the hand he's been dealt, he did really well. I thought, walls started off. Shakey got better.
They both cemented their brand as walls brand is likable and he's very, he was very likable and Vance's brand is intelligent. And he came off as very intelligent and the big winner, the big winner here other than America was Vance because quite frankly coming out of this debate, Vance in my view is probably the top contender for the GOP nomination in 2028. Yeah, I think you saw the future of the Republican party at the end of the day. Yeah, I do.
I thought, you know, he's a, he lies a lot just more definitely. I'm sorry. He just, there's several lies told him. And that's not a good thing. Like, oh, so he managed to normalize his lies. And I don't know if that's a positive thing. He's certainly a serious contender that is no question about that. And I think he acquits himself well. He's still a creepy person who does has an issue with women. It's a real, which he didn't let out.
He didn't show that, he didn't take the mask off on that thing. But some of his other comments are disturbing. If you go back in any interview, they're just disturbing in the extreme. And so talking about the debate, I agree with you. Yes. But the reason I'm saying it's disturbing is that he also is very good at masking himself as a normal person. And he's not normal. And so it doesn't every politician have to do that. You the fuck would want to do that?
When I look at some of these, you've got to go back and look at these interviews. Got there just that nobody talks about. No, I see. And so I think he's able to normalize his very dark view of humanity in a way that, that, you know, I like it would, if he wasn't such a dark character, I would say this was a really nice, civil thing. And every politician lies, but he manages to take anything where there's false equivalency and try to really, he cannot miss a moment of lying about something.
Like he just can't admit anything very much. He can't say, yes, this is a problem. No, this is, and I would like our public officials to say, I made a mistake or yes, this was wrong. He cannot do that as a person. What is he going to say? I hate my mother and as a result, I'm a deep, dark misogynist and I'm supporting a guy who generally think is the American Hitler. I mean, I agree with everything you said. He was very good. Yeah, he was. No, he is really good.
I still don't think it matters in any way whatsoever. And I, but I do think it sets him up for the future. That's what it's already out of the news cycle. Yeah, it was, you know what it was? It was mostly, it was a split decision. A split, a split decision amongst the VP debate is pretty much a nothing burger. Right, exactly. So, and it doesn't really matter, but I do, you do have to see who's going, you know, as you say, the actuarial tables show that this guy might be president.
So that's why we're paying attention to him, right? Because Donald Trump is old and obviously speaking of which, adults beyond belief, this last speech he gave and finally the Washington Post wrote about it, very, you know, they wrote about it. Joe Biden on the time, Donald Trump, it wasn't just a crazy word, Sal, that he usually is, there's something happening to him cognitively that is very, I, I don't know what it is, but it was really pronounced this past week.
And it's either drugged or something is gone wrong. And it's not as usual, couple crazy. Anyway, nothing's gone wrong. It's called being 78. And with the history of Alzheimer's in your family, that's, I kept thinking, what is happening to this guy's words? Anyway, and I think we should call it out because I called out for Biden. I think Donald Trump is cognitively labeled. So we have some, so this guy might be president, that's all I'm saying. We, that's why it matters.
So we also have some new evidence. This is interesting. This just dropped last night in the 2020 election case against Donald Trump unsealed by a judge on Wednesday revealed special counsel, Jack Smith's outline of the former president's desperate attempts to overturn the 2020 election, which has been reported, but some of it was not, which was interesting. He kind of put it together in a timeline.
Smith emphasized that Trump's scheme was a private criminal effort and that he's acting as a candidate. And not a president. He needs to do that because of the Supreme Court decision that, that presidents have immunity for official acts, but not private acts. One of the things was when he was told about the danger to Mike Pence, he said, so what? And then another point he went by AIDS kind of had it with his non-reaction. They left the dining room.
He was throwing ketchup in and he started writing very dangerous tweets about Mike Pence that put him in direct danger. This when he was cogent, do you think this matters? I did that this came out. Do voters care? I think it's add to the list of things. Nobody cares that this guy is a criminal, I guess. If there's anything that is disqualifying here, it's January 6th in his behavior that I'm pretty sure you felt this way.
When I saw this mob hunting down our elected representatives and I saw them cowering in the rafters in the rotunda, I thought it was arguably the most shameful day we've had in two. Maybe since the Japanese internment, I thought this is, we have lost so much moral authority. And I mean, it just was so, it was so deeply, I don't think of myself as someone who's, I don't know, like a student of the constitution, I found it so deeply rattling.
And that he's watching it like it's a sport and egging these people on. I thought. And it also gave me the impression I am totally out of touch with the American people and how much they either, their sick of fan tree can override their sense of justice and right or wrong or that things are so bad for so many Americans that they will accept this in exchange for someone they think is going to burn it all down.
But that to me was absolutely the low point in America for the last, I don't know, 40 or 50 years. I just, it just showed me I have no political instincts because I thought that's it. I thought it was going to be in prison and I thought for sure he'd be out of all public sight whatsoever. And it's a toss-off right now for president. I just don't get it. I have terrible political instincts. That's what it taught me.
Yeah, I, you know, I do think over, you need to have this historical record, right? You need to have it said what he did so that even if they don't care, it doesn't matter. He did it. Like he said so what? He sat in that dining room, you know, addled on whatever the fuck he takes, all the different things and ketchup and put someone in danger. This is a, this is someone who's a sociopath as far as I can tell. And that's what I read it. I was sort of like what is sociopathic behavior.
And I think putting the timeline together, no matter what, we'll follow this man into his grave, right? This is this kind of stuff. He may not pay for himself. I think it's critically important that this is laid out. There's so much stuff he's done and others have done that have not like the stuff in Ukraine, the, the, the antics, you know, that Rudy Giuliani did. Why isn't Rudy Giuliani in jail for criminal acts, right?
And so I think that will follow these people to the ends of the earth to put it down. But I agree with you. I don't know if it matters. I think people, everyone's like, everything's baked in and I'm like, that is a sick indictment of this country if everything is baked in and it doesn't matter what he does. But I thought it's worth reading this. I don't know if it'll matter or voters care or have already figured this out that he did this and, and decided they don't care.
But and the ones that care care, right? And so we'll see where it goes. But I think it's important to lay it all out and to act like we're a nation of laws and not men. So we'll see, we'll see. And I think the internet, speaking of we're not remembering the vice president on debate or not remembering the assassination attempts. We're not remembering the like everything goes through in this fast moving way that we've that it's just like it is like a television show.
And you're like next on this thing. So maybe it'll be next, but it matters, I think. Anyway, let's go in a quick break. We come back. We'll talk about the aftermath of Hurricane Helene. We haven't talked about it and take a listener mail question about dating goals where you could make your joke Scott. Mm. Support for Pivot comes from The Washington Post.
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Scott, we're back with our second big story, the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, which is now the second deadliest hurricane of the century behind Katrina. Here's a look at the situation by numbers. Right now, there are at least 180 dead and hundreds still missing, $160 billion of economic damage so far, according to AccuWeather. Terror communities have been destroyed more than a million or so without power. Tens of thousands are without running water.
The Biden administration has deployed over 5,000 National Guardsmen and 1,000 active duty troops. Biden visited the Caroline's Wednesday. Kamala Harris was in Georgia. Donald Trump visited Georgia early this week and his campaign set up a GoFundMe account. Aside from the obvious political tragedy. This is a political situation and not just because there are two swing states involved. North Carolina in Georgia. Donald Trump quickly spread misinformation. What a surprise.
He claimed that Georgia, Governor Brian Kemp couldn't get in touch with Biden. The aftermath of this storm, both Biden and Kemp disputed that. He also took credit for asking Elon Musk to get star like access to damage areas. FEMA, Tweet and Response. This is already happening. Elon back president Trump's version of events, of course he would. And of course, Trump disaster response has usually been terrible.
Talk a little bit about this from a political point of view, but also the devastation here and the photos are just disturbing in the extreme. What's happening there? And people thought they were safe in certain parts of the country like Asheville. They thought they were climate safe and they certainly were not from these rising rivers. Any thoughts? Yeah, well you touched on it.
So if you believe in science and think that science is the kind of the best ideas we have and maybe the closest to an actual truth, the waters have heated up one degree centigrade or I think it's about, what is that about? I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit. And it was, they're getting warmer. And that spins up hurricanes faster and makes them more severe.
And one of the outcomes of that severity is they're moving inland and affecting areas including Asheville that are just aren't weather ready. When you're in Florida, whether it's hurricane windows, I mean, I don't want to say you're prepared, but you know eventually if you're living in Florida, you're going to have to deal with this and you make preparations, whether it's insurance, whether it's, you know, the quality of your roof or whatever it is or a generator.
I spent a bunch of time in money thinking on alternative energy supplies if our power goes out. So this is just the fact that we politicize this and don't want to just look at the data, it's just going to create more and more severe weather events. And what you said really struck me and it's true and tragic is that Americans are very or no excuse me, humans are very adaptable. And we're just getting used to this shit and we shouldn't be getting used to it.
Now on a political stage, we're talking about all this stuff that we like to control, the VP debate, the convention, the bomb. The three things are one of three things that will probably decide this election given that it's in the margin of error right now are one of three things or two of those three. And that is who is perceived as having the better response to hurricane Helena, a Helene, excuse me, to hurricane Helene.
Like if Biden and Harris can be seen down there with a FEMA jacket and looking strong and bringing people together or if it's kind of George Bush's Katrina event where he just looks like an idiot having appointed his political buddies who just fucked up left and right. Yeah. Two. Great job, Brownie. Great. Brownie is doing an amazing job. And then two, the Longshoreman strike.
This is probably, I would argue, the one that might jump up and bite one or both of them in the ass because it feels to me awfully opportune that these, the Longshoreman have gone on strike. I believe they deserve a raise, I think they're in a position of leverage, which I respect and appreciate. But if this thing starts costing the economy $5 billion a day, does Biden step in? Does he show strength? Does he show empathy? Is Trump able to make political hay? There's some.
Oh, they had the Longshoreman. Is it a Trump or Trump or yeah? But is that going to be good to that backfire? If Biden steps in and says, you know, fuck yourself, you're not going to fuck with the economy and forces everyone back to work. That is a big issue. And then the third wild card is what's happening in the Middle East and that is Israel's response to Iran and who gets credit or non-credit for that.
But I think one of those three issues or more than one of those three issues is going to determine the election at that point. So these are news events that matter, I guess, because everything else sales buy in like a, you know, you have your plan and then God laughs. God is laughing at the presidential election with these three events. It's a toss up.
Trump is going to get a lot of credit or a lot of blame for one or more in terms of their approach and how they address one or more of these three issues. You know, who actually was down there first? Jose Andres with food. Incredible. He should be president, honestly. That he brings the world central kitchen was the first group down there over everybody. Feeding people. Yeah. What an organization. What do you thought? Do you think that one of the three?
You know, I think I thought it was, it was, I don't know why Trump tried to politicize it right at the beginning. It was a grotesque. That's it. You know, is that any other Tuesday with this cafe? I, you know, I agree with you. I think this idea that any, you know, it was interesting was people move to Asheville and I know a lot of, I love Asheville. It's a beautiful town. But they used to say I'm moving here because it's the climate haven. They did. I've been there.
And, you know, here's where it's safe where it's going to be safe against climate change. You're not safe anywhere around climate change. You just are not. And the second part is like, to me, climate change is the really going to be the interesting thing over the next couple of years because like I was just reading an interesting story about insurance rates now in California and Florida. They're not ensuring. They're just stopped ensuring.
And so some people have stopped doing insurance in these places or having insurance or, well, you can't, I can't get insurance where I have. Right. You can't get it. That's the other thing, right? And so to me, that was an opportunity for, I hate to say this Gavin News and Imranda Santas to get together, right? And come up with something to self-insure or whatever. But it's certainly, there's all kinds of opportunities to come together, right?
In these things like Jose Andres and World Central Kitchen, he feeds everybody. He doesn't care who you vote for. Or it's an opportunity to split people up. I think people do respond to people who are going to bring people together and solve problems. And so I think people are desperate for problem solvers, not divisiveness. And so whoever does that best here, finds a way to settle with this long Sherman who I think is just, I'll tell you why he offended me. He's like, my guys will do this.
I'm like, they're not your fucking guys, right? You know what I mean? He does. I know Indian people talk like that. He's not in charge. He's not the king. He should try to find the best deal for the constituents he works for, right? But of course, it's all cynical with this guy. And so if I were his constituents, I'd be pretty pissed that he's doing this. Well, I think they've been offered a 52% raise. But the WGA was able to extract 5% for their writers. Right. He's already gotten 52%.
He says, he's rejected that deal and said, no, I won 77. Well, they're probably, you know what, they're within striking distance. I think they're probably going to solve this thing. Yeah, I just find this guy offensive because of the way he taught. I was listening to him. But again, the ridiculous request that makes no sense is we want to, we want to put the technology back in the bottle. We want no automation. Sorry, boss. Sorry, boss.
You're going to get take what everybody else is going to take anyway. Well, you know, I can't wait for you to do that. Can you tape it? Please can you do that? That's going to be great. Please tape it with one of the one that has jiggly cameras for us. Anyway, what's happening there? One of the things that is good and bad about the internet is so many pictures coming through and it's devastating and people and stories and things like that.
But there are some organizations you can check out that are providing help in states affected by Helene World Central Kitchen. As I said, Jose Andres, what an amazing man. He's become with this effort. America's Operation Air Drop, the Humane Society and many more. So please give if you can. It's they're really suffering there. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. Next question comes in via email. I'll read it. Hi, Cara and Scott. I work remotely and recently went through a breakup.
Currently, I live in North Carolina, but I'm considering moving as a 30 year old ambitious man. I'm looking to maximize my dating prospects and increase my earning potential. Should I think about relocating closer to my company's headquarters in Florida to build stronger work relationships or should I challenge myself by moving to New York City?
And maybe a medium cost city like Austin or stay here where I can save more and leverage my six figures out of you invest in the stock market in real estate. For context, I work in finance sales. I am a non-white, straight male looking forward to your thought, best Andres. Oh, Andres, you're North. I hope you're in a safe part of North Carolina. What do you think, Scott? What do you think without making a dirty joke? Yeah, and it's the last part of the third part. Okay, Andres.
So meeting is like any other market and you want to go where there's more demand and supply for what you're offering. You're so let's just start with the basic. You're a male. There are certain cities. Basically cities attract more women and men. And the reason why after my divorce, I immediately buy places in New York and South Beach, is there a lot more quality women than quality men? And so a five gets to day to seven.
So by virtue of just moving to a city, most cities, especially the coastal cities, you have somewhat of an advantage. And in place like New York or Miami, it is champagne and cocaine for men. Talk to women about dating, their misery in Miami and New York, quite frankly, is your disco. Now having said that, what trumps all of this, what trumps all of this in your 30s is nothing increases your attractiveness and increases your potential selections out of mates than economic security.
Women are attracted to men for three reasons. Number three, reverse order. How kind they are. Women long-term want someone who's going to be good to them and to their family too. Intelligence. If you're smart, you're more likely to make good decisions for the tribe and make good decisions for the family and her kids will survive. And then number one, whether you like it or not, there's a ton of evidence, is your ability to signal resources.
Women go through a period in their lives where they are bearing children and they need a guy with resources to ensure their kids survive. So what you want to be focused on in your 30s is killing it professionally. So get the headquarters because at headquarters, you will accelerate 30 to 40 percent faster than someone who is not at headquarters. So take all the bullshit I said about cities out of the equation in your 30s.
You want to be sexy, no matter where you are, make a shitton of money, you're going to make more money at headquarters. Yeah, okay, good. I would agree with you. I think living in North Carolina and being remote, it sounds like a very bad prescription from meeting anybody. I had a relative, I'm not going to go into detail, who, a younger relative, who was living in Missouri. I advised him to get the hell to Atlanta and he did and he's married and he's very happy lately married now.
I don't think, you know, if you're in a remote area by yourself as a young single person, especially a man in an area that doesn't have a lot of prospects, you're going to have any prospects. You're going to have a lot of money. You're going to have a lot of cash, but what are you going to do with your probably drink, you're drink that money, you know, essentially, or do whatever. So I think you should move. It's like, everything shouldn't be a monetary decision. Lean into your advantage.
That's right. And if you make a six-figure salary, you'll be fine no matter where you are. And so, you know, and you're also happier with someone. There's, you know, honestly, there's just no question. Move, move, move, move. I don't know if you should move to headquarters or a cool city, but either way, you'll do well. I don't, you know, I, Scott and I are not all plus on remote work, even though both of us do it, interestingly, but we have established families already.
I think later in your life, you could do remote work when you're younger. Don't do remote work, get into the office or get into the, whatever. Well, once you have, once you have money and relationships, remote works and unlock with, if you don't have a partner and you haven't made a lot of money, the office is a feature, not a benefit. Get into the office. Yeah, later you can leave and ignore it. That's right. Like we do. Anyway, under a, thank you so much. And good luck. Good luck. We hope.
Tell us when you get married. Okay. If you've got a question of your own and you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivots. submit a question for the show or call 855-51 pivot. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions from you. I know you're in the prediction mode as the year ends. When Kamala Harris and Donald Trump met on the debate stage, it was obvious that these were two very different people.
But JD Vance and Tim Walls actually have a lot in common. They're both white men from the Midwest. They're both family men and they were both in the service. But they disagree on what it means to be a man. Here's my light pack. Surround yourself with smart women and listen to them and you'll do just fine. Today explained every weekday wherever you get your podcasts. Support for Pivot comes from Vanta.
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Remember the guy who the Tina Fade, you're Alex Baldwin sort of rejuvenated your career and he was I mean the lounge adhees, I'm at the Lee Thro, the Virgin lounge, the Virgin Atlantic Clubhouse lounge and I'm about to have the chicken, tikka masala. I love it here. You should check it out. It's sort of the cool kids hang out. Anyways, I hope you're all safe travels.
Scott frankly, it's a miracle that Virgin Atlantic let you into the Clubhouse and their incredible business class, but I guess they did. Tell me how it was. So, Cara, I'm an original gangster when it comes to version. I've been flying version for 20 plus years. And I do the same thing and they get it right every time. They always have the financial times for me. And I order the chicken tikka masala. And that is my, that is my version experience. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And your drink was? What is, what is your drink? Well, I used to drink a bloody Mary or a beer in the clubhouse. I started, I don't drink alcohol when I travel anymore. So I just do mineral water, but they have this kind of cool cocktail. It's like a lemon grass or some sort of cool margarita thing. And I get a, I get a virgin one. What is your pre-flight routine? What is your actual, besides your chicken tikka masala, the virgin clubhouse?
My pre-flight routine is, well, I was doing the same thing the morning when I travel. I try and workout. I take the dogs for a walk. And I was making time for the clubhouse because I do enjoy the virgin clubhouse of Heathrow. So check out virginandlantic.com for your next trip and see the world differently. Certain amenities are only available on selected cabins and aircraft. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. Do you have any predictions? Oh, hmm. I do.
I had an interesting discussion with, I've had, you know, when you travel, you talk to people and you sort of start to hear their views and stuff like that. I know all our focus is on the election. Right now, I think a lot of people are really leaning in and paying attention to the election. But I do think, I think there is a quiet group of women in this country, the way there was a quiet group of Trump supporters.
And I, and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm convinced that the election will be not as close as people think it is. You know who agrees with it? Who? Bill Marx. Oh, does he? Interesting. He said he thinks that Vice President Harris is not only going to win, but she's going to win decisively. I think it's going to be women. Women vote. I think there's a lot of focus on young men and what will they do? They never go to vote. They're lazy. They're lazy. And I think women are motivated.
And they're every woman I talk to is doing something, whether it's raising money or whatever. And so I really, I don't know. I just, I could be really wrong. But I think that Trump's grip is a lot less strong than people think. I think everything's just as everyone lets him get away with shit, all his supporters. I think everyone has had enough. He's got as many, he's got a ceiling, and he's reached it. And that's my feeling.
Anyway, it is, of course, about turnout and the turnout for the, as much as Elon Musk is giving him money, I don't think they have to go to turnout as the Democrats. But we'll see. All right, Scott, do you have a prediction? I do. You inspired one. So I think we're about to undertake, or we're beginning what I call the great rotation. And that is, if since 2008, the capital flows, market dynamics was Trump individual performance. So you'd rather be a mediocre stock in America right now.
They're a really good company and good stock in Argentina. Because every year since 2008, capital flows have flown basically leaked out of everywhere. And into the US. So such that the S&P trades at a higher P, than I think than any market in the world. And with the Chinese market actually ripping up last week, I think since the beginning of September, they're up more than 30%. I think the starting gun has been fired.
And that is the US market as a ratio of what, how it trades relative to other markets, has not seen these highs since 1999 or 2007. And with Chinese stocks making a comeback with a stimulus announced with a bunch of people getting their greed glands going, ETFs have surged or capital flows into China have surged. But it's going to lift stocks in places like China, places like Brazil. And you're going to have a rotation back into kind of emerging or what you would call developing markets.
And some, I think that markets outside of the US are going to outperform the US over the next three to five years. That's interesting. Oh, that's a good one. I just come up that one on the top of your head. That was good. That was helpful. Good. I'm glad. It's a good prediction. How is your prediction stack going? By the way, speaking of prediction, what's that? Well, it's just so discouraging. Last year, I would loosely describe my predictions as wrong. I just shit the bet on everything.
I got almost everything wrong. I love when you talk about that though. That'll be, we'll go over that with your event. Everything. Just like literally everything. Was I right? Then? I didn't forget what you predicted. You have much better political instincts than me. That's correct. Most people realize that. My wife, Amanda's like, yeah, Scott was great on Beto. Oh, then he was. That's the only mean thing to say. Well, whatever.
It's really sad to me because there's only a one and four chance I'm going to get to see Amanda again, according to these divorced statistics. Oh, stop it. What are you going to do for nothing? That's good. We're not getting to it. I am never getting to it. I just assume lesbians and a regular basis cry and hug for three hours and decide never to see each other again. Is that wrong? Is that wrong? No. You know what? Actually, in general, not everybody for sure.
But mostly lesbians get along with their exes. A lot of straights don't. Not even. You get along with that. Yeah. She's coming for Christmas. Yeah. No. It's great. My little kids love her. She's a lovely person. And there were issues. But I think we've done a nice job trying to really especially. I thought you all had met your ex-wife, right? No. What? No. Is it a conference in Germany or something? I was speaking. I don't know. I talked about Amazon.
She came up to me and she's like, you are not giving Mackenzie Bezos enough credit for starting Amazon. Oh. And I look at her and I'm like, oh, do you have a background in technology? She's like, yeah, I did it. And I was the CTO of America. I'm like, oh, my God. Were you married to Karris Swisher? Anyways, you're ex-wife. She didn't lead with that. She didn't lead. Your ex-wife came up and reprimanded me after my car. She's good at that shit. She's a very... She's a real...
Someone who really supports women in technology. And that's her thing. If you said anything cross-ways, you'd have been like, she'd have come at you. No. She's a big... She's a tall lady, right? She's tall. She's a big lady and everything. She's a massive woman. Yeah, she is. She's great. Yeah. Yeah. Come for Christmas at the Lesbians would get along. Well, yeah, I'm not getting a divorce, okay? I'm going to South Africa. You are? Yeah. Oh. Taking my sister for her 50th Africa, I don't know.
Yeah, we're going to San Francisco. We're going to have a great time. Yeah, we'll be there. I win. I win on that one. Cape Town, Cape Town of San Francisco. Yeah. I win. No, no. We're not a Cape Town. Have you been to Cape Town? No, but we don't need to escape. We're not... We don't need to escape. We don't need to explore the world. We don't need to explore the world. We don't need to. We don't need to explore the world. We don't need to.
I'm going to come up for Christmas with you at some time. Anyway. I hate the holidays, just you know? I hate the holidays. See, that's why you're escaping what I just said, but exactly what I just said. Yeah. Good. In any case, Scott, we'll all have American Christmas. I'm excited to hear your predictions for the year and, you know, your assessment of what you got wrong. Okay, that's the show before we go. We're up for the best co-host team in the signal awards. I don't know what that is.
Really? I didn't know about that. I didn't know about that. I don't know. Let's find out. I'm going to observe it. Vote for us at the link in the description. And again, Dak Shepherd, I extend my apologies to you on Scott's behalf. I, you call me on. I didn't mean it, Dak. Didn't mean it. You kind of meant it a little bit. I want to work out with that guy. That guy's a rep. No, he's not working out with you. He's definitely not working out. I got so ribbed.
Anyway, we'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot and I'm certain more news. Scott. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Christine Driscoll. Earned an inter-todd entry in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Missed Avario. Meshak Kerwa is Vox Media as executive producer of Audio. Make sure you're subscribed to the show where ever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine in Vox Media.
You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things, tech and business.