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Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher and I have my annual cold where I sound like Bernad Vicaro. Good to see you, Scott. It's good to see you. I just want to kick off the pod today with one question. One query, one inquiry, Cara. Yeah, what's your inquiry? What the actual fuck? Fuck. We were so wrong. The actual fuck. Scott, how wrong were we? Let's discuss. Oh, you know what? As someone who's wrong a lot, this was especially
wrong. This was spectacular. Yeah. Yeah. I got it. I'm not sure I could have been more wrong here. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I got to say though on the morning after we take the morning of the election, I don't start it to get a bad feeling. I don't know why. And maybe it was just the yips from the Hillary Clinton thing. But I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, something like that. And it was weird. But I never said it. But we were
wrong. Describe your day. And then, which is my way of saying I want to describe mine, but I'll let you go first. By the way, where are you? You look very nice and it's a very nice hotel room. I'm in Vegas, baby. I'm going to drink myself to death here like Alain Nicholas K. You're in Vegas. I'm in Vegas. I'm giving a speech so I can make money because I'm going to make more money under the Trump administration while others who voted for
him will not. In any case, I am, I'm here for a speech. What hotel you are? I love Vegas. MGM grant. Everything is green. All the lights are green. Yeah. You kind of missed it on that one. You kind of know. I know. Which one do you like? Which hotel do I'm getting old? So I like to stay at the wind specifically the encore. But it was younger. I used to sit at the R. I also the cosmos. It's kind of cool. Yeah. I've seen
all those places. I'm going for F1 next weekend. And I got a speech there next Wednesday. Yeah. There's a lot of F1 stuff in the in the all the, you know, the shop ease and stuff like that. It's kind of F1 stuff. You like that. I haven't been to that. Do you actually watch the race? No, I go to hang out with hot people and basically party. I mean, I'll go to the race one night, but I've been to F1 and several cities in the city. Really
those come alive. I mean, F1 Miami, Montreal, which in my mind is the best. I've been to all the places. I'm trying to talk about anything else but the election. Okay. This is my day very quickly. I got to how to play out for Kara Swisher. Okay. Took took the kids to vote. We went to our area voting. We voted. So think so election fraud. So you're saying you're did voted. Yes. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. They did several times. And we showed in the
whole thing. I've done that. You've done that with your kids. You did your grandparents vote for that. Yeah. Right. And so then I went. I declare and I hung around for a little while. And then she got the day off from school because she's in public school and to vote obviously the five year old voted. And then I did some work. I did a bunch of work. And then I just hung out. I worked out. I was trying to feel better. And then I kept getting
the YIPS. I really did. It was there a moment. It was there a moment during the night. We are like, oh no. No. When she gave her speech, even though it looked beautiful, her last speech in Philadelphia, I thought, oh no, no, no, no, she's not going to connect. This is not going to connect with people that may I don't know why I just I felt like. Oh, this. And you don't see I felt that way about calm with speeches every time she opened
her mouth. But you felt it was especially non-resident. I don't know why I thought it was really beautiful visually. And I was worried about the message. I was like, hot. And there wasn't enough time. I also didn't think there was enough time. But at what point during the evening did you go where there's trouble on Madville? Right away. Right. I was watching and I'm like,
no, this is this is something's happening here. I don't know what it was. And it was just and Chris Wallace actually said there was something that when the independence came back in his favor in one of the states. And it was where they might have gone to her. Even it was a state he won. I can't remember what it was. There was something like that. And when they were talking about economy so much, I Chris Wallace said she needs a miracle very
early in the night. And I think Chris is very an astute watcher of these things having done so many. But then I started to feel really sick because I got this cold and I was feeling Clara and solid had this same thing. It's like a 24 hour like nausea thing. And I went to sleep and I woke up the neck at 5 30 the next morning and I was and then I knew.
So what did you do? So I knew I had sort of this deja vu of 2016. I remember when they were showing the map of Florida pounding by county because that back then Florida was considered potentially a swing vote or a swing state. And it was just so obvious. I like math and I'm fairly good at it and right away I thought she's not only going to certainly come. It's not only going to lose Florida. She's going to lose about a lot, which means
she's done. And for me, this was when it happened fairly early, having a 1 a.m. My time or I think about 8 p.m. Be some standard time is when they announced the results of Georgia because he came in 2.2 points ahead of her and I thought that's kind not a blowout, but that's pretty significant for a state that was there were some hopes you might be competitive in in that Biden won and I thought that's it she's done. And then the next
day. So I was very stressed out about it. I was more stressed than I thought it was going to be a more upset than I initially thought it was going to be and I'm a huge fan of Dan Harris and I thought he had that method that strawberry the methods relax where you go in for 2 seconds through your nose and then like you're blowing on a straw for twice as long. So I did that and and just to be clear that shit does not work for me care.
It did not work. So I went to my method of relaxation and I waited till noon. I had a peroni then a Xanax and then another peroni as I was I like to call it panics the panics and I find I find it not only relaxes me. But a little inside about the dog I become an outstanding dancer on prescription grade pharmaceuticals. And I listen to 80s music and I danced around the dogs are very upset the dogs do not like me dancing they totally
freak out. So you turned off the TV you turned off the TV. Oh I I I went on actually I went on Amazon's live election coverage which I really I really love by the way. Ryan Wims is the right host. He's in mix of really credible but really comfortable at the same time and who you know I saw was a good friend Jessica Yellen who did a great job anyways but the next day I'm like I don't want to hear the analysis I don't want to hear I don't
want to hear anything I don't want to hear everyone contradicting each other as to what went wrong or what went right but it was I haven't I just literally 10 minutes ago upgraded from pajamas to athleisure so I'm in I've been in pajamas I've been drinking a lot I've been watching Netflix and my stocks are up it's COVID again it's literally I'm a COVID
again. Yeah yeah so I'm not going to ask you what I think but what do you how do you how do you think of the reaction and how are you how do you think our audience should process this. Well look what Dan also said my new Yoda around anxiety action absorbs anxiety and I think one of the keys to success is the ability to more to move on so I've given myself 24 hours to mourn and then the next day I thought okay should I be giving money to plan parenthood
should I be getting more involved in Westmore's campaign or I did a call with a guy named Seth Moulton the Democratic Congress person who I'm really impressed with should I be giving money to Amy Klobuchar is there or I imagine already there's a 2026 candidates I'm like okay
that's it let's let's get on it because the ray of sunshine here if there is one is it traditionally a midterm is a huge opportunity for the non incumbent party and so I'm I'm spending time with my boys I'm doing things I enjoy and I'm going to say okay I didn't
like the way this turned out what can I do to make sure it turns out differently in 24 months so I'm already sort of trying to take action if you what do you do care I wrote a really long thing at 5 30 in the morning talking about a lot of things like I'm like we
don't have to you know everyone's like oh the American people is spoken I'm like 50% I was looking at all the things and I get it he won in all the right places like winning is winning right but that's different from everyone right it's really the the polarization
is absolutely even Stephen very close right if you look at various things what I what I really want to understand is what was the messaging that didn't work right what was the mess or that it didn't get through what was the calculation in their head how did
they vote for someone found liable for sexual assault and what was the calculation and why did that message not resonate and why was it okay given all the evidence that he's crazy strange he's obviously addled why did none of those things matter to people and
again the two choices are they don't believe them they don't believe all those cabinet members they don't believe all these things about him and his history or they are fine with it if they can get lower grocery prices or they felt better than they did before
you know do you feel better today than four years ago and I think that trumped it and I just couldn't I can't get past those things but a lot of people can and maybe that's why we got it so wrong you can't believe that they could say okay to that especially especially
women which who voted a lot of white women voted for Trump again well just I'm not talking about the way the world should be or our version of it what it should be but the way the world is and that is and I put out a threat on this and immediately I'm going
on CNN MSNBC and some are conscious in the next 72 hours to talk about what bottom lines I think the manosphere one here I think this was the bro vote they won the one the election and if you look at the age group that had the biggest swing from 2020 in terms of who they
voted for hands down there was an 11 points swing towards trump among 18 to 29 year olds yeah and if if you're self appointed social justice warrior or you're making judgments on someone's character or you may not think they equip themselves well personally or professionally
but you can't afford a home the government or the left is lecturing at you about bailing out people who went to college where you have absolutely no prospect of going to college either because of inability to get in or inability to afford it if you can't see a way to having anything
resembling the life your parents had you're not you're not interested in being lectured about who's a better person you not only want change you want disruption you don't even want conventional Republicans you certainly don't want Democrats and the other age segment that swung the furthest
was in my view their parents 45 to 64 year olds because if you're a single mother yeah and and you're everybody this is what did not show up everybody vastly overestimated the role that bodily autonomy would play in this race you're right because trump was able to distance
himself by convincing people I'm actually not as crazy as some of the people here and so people had some comfort that even if they voted for trump it wasn't necessarily a voting against bodily autonomy but what they do see is if you're a mother or you're a parent and your kids specifically
your sons are doing terribly you just want change you want to burn the whole place down so if you look in my view if you look at what really drove this election it was one bodily autonomy was not the referendum the motivator that people thought and it's not only young people that are struggling
24% less wealthy than they were 40 years ago where seniors are 72% wealthier if pop up a Nana complain it's bad but if your son of your daughter are doing really poorly and can't afford their rent and have see their lifestyle going down are more depressed and more anxious you want to burn
the whole fucking thing down and so you do you do I think if you don't have the luxury of caring that I think in a lot of ways you know I think what you're saying is you don't have a luxury of the social issues become a luxury yeah that's what I mean yeah yeah you don't have that you don't
have that and so I get that I utter I completely get that what I don't get is the raising of darkness that he has I guess they just don't believe that he really is like that right I think that's what what it is although you know then you get all his crazy followers who are like Nick Quente's today
on Twitter and someone sent it to me tweeted your body my choice forever like that kind of stuff is terrifying to lots of people and so I think the emboldenment of this is is maybe they're overstating it maybe I don't know I find them terrifying these people I do and I get I do have the luxury
of binding them terrifying and I think that's why especially to my kids to my my marriage everything else and other people don't I guess I'm not angry at them for that but there is going to be a real um split in people who who can be scared of it who can who can live with fear in that fear and of
course that is a motivator too because fear does motivate everybody rather than just joy um she was trying joy she was trying with forward I think let me just say I know everyone's piling on the Democrats I thought she in the short the air they probably made was not to have a primary right
a primary a short primary so that we could pick if she had even been picked I thought she did do a really nice campaign the best that she could but she was dragging Biden behind her the whole time and and she was part of that administration and I think that's what people were reacting against
was the Biden administration and how they felt even if lots of stuff was up into the right for a lot of people um I think she couldn't shake him unless she shook him and so another candidate that wasn't a Biden person might have been more appealing but I'm not so sure I'm not so sure that
would have worked either I think you're zeroing on the fiddle flyer and that is it was very difficult so first off vice president Harris should hold her head high given the the hand she was dealt given how much pressure was on her given how outstanding she was in that debate I think she can
feel really good about herself and we should feel good about her uh president Biden should be buried in a crypt along with senator finestein and Ruth Bader Ginsburg that says fucking narcissist that ruin their legacy yeah if we had had a competition that the primaries are outstanding at producing
battle tested candidates that people get comfortable with and who are really good on their feet and she might have been that person but if she'd been that person she would have been better prepared or the nation might have said well who wins in a primary is who puts and rises to the moment
and voters get to decide in this moment maybe we don't want fairly or unfairly the incumbents maybe we've just decided two thirds of people think America is going in the wrong direction so we want someone a little bit outside of the party who has a D but says this is not working uh
yeah the college Colorado did amazingly well like across the state Democrats or someone we haven't heard of someone could have risen up and been there at the right moment in the right time this is absolutely in my view on Biden and the people around him and the democratic establishment
including many of our friends who are emailing me saying you're you're hurting by not supporting Biden he's going to be our nominee it was insane that he didn't live up to his promise in 2020 that he was going to be a transition candidate if there's any blame here it's going to quote the
establishment and I'm president Biden himself she did her level best they also vastly overestimated the role bodily autonomy would play in the election it just do you realize more women or fewer women voted for Harris and voted for Biden it's not quite the number because all the California votes
are in yet and she'll her votes will rise with California but yes I know she didn't he didn't get that many more votes I mean a very I don't even think I think it's pretty even Stephen with him he just got the votes he got he kept his votes and he increased in certain places among everybody
except for a small group what was it I know what I was looking at was Colorado where Democrats did instantaneously well so what policies peddling over there is working like economy let's stop fighting over ideology not so let's point it social justice cops yeah right exactly let's be reasonable
with strong economy but actually he did better across every group in every region except for black women who are six percent of the population any other demographic group any other region if you want every swing state I mean if you look at this really is and I don't
think this is a good thing you had the new deal Democrats in the 30s who had a mandate and a pretty serious sweep this wasn't a landslide but it was a it was a distinct decisive win you had the Republicans in the 80s I do think that this is this does signal a shift in policy around
immigration around foreign policy around trade I mean there's just no getting around it this is America saying we want to go in a different direction I do think this was a pretty big yeah absolutely although let me just make let me just say people are like oh it's a huge
at landslide let me you know what a landslide is Linden Baines Johnson in 1964 61% of the votes FDR 60% Richard Nixon 60% what orangey harding 60% Reagan 58% Herbert Hoover 58% Rosevelt 57 I's power 57 50 T Rosevelt 56 55 this was not that it was just not it just wasn't that it wasn't a
landslide but it's not even in the top 10 but that means half the country is dissatisfied so it's who do you want it who do you want to bring over and how do you bring them over to to the other side how do you make them feel like they're like ever although we may just be polarized right it may
just be that it'll never be that way again back and forth right it'll never be 60 the three issues the three issues that showed up or the were the most important were inflation immigration and the issue that I think was the biggest issue where the democratic establishment
made a huge error here around some of the things we were talking about was in comevency and that is if you look at every democratic nation across the globe from India to Japan they've gotten slapped hard the incumbents have been getting kicked out and to think that we were going to buck
that trend in a nation where two thirds of people saying we're headed down the wrong track was just incredibly naive and then the big shocker for both I'll speak for you for you and me I was I was convinced bodily autonomy was going to play a bigger role than it did me too
there were some interesting videos of people saying oh Trump is for abortion rights a lot let me say the last thing and then we'll have to move on talk about some of the real impacts I think there was an enormous amount of propaganda in this pushed by Elon and others that really
worked like worked in a way that they often do so many exit interviews were so incorrect it was crazy like like they were just doing just interviews and I have to say the the interviewers were just saying what do you think of this they weren't like guiding them in any way and there was this one
woman where she's like yeah Trump isn't isn't going to do this he's for police for abortion and there was tons and tons of just misinformation all over the place and I think the role of it's like propaganda where people had different facts going in was really quite extensive I think
I had a lot of people telling me things I was like no that's actually not true that's actually not true you know and I think that it was sort of pervasive the misinformation and the constant the constant lying about things or and I think which she spent a lot of time doing was whack a
mole and that's a bad position to be in to be right and to tell people they're wrong is a bad thing because they don't want to hear that so I think there's 10 20 years ago we're going to study the propaganda uses propaganda by foreign and domestic and it's going to be something else including
Russia and others but that's something we're not that's been building for a very long time but just outside of the big three we mentioned right immigration inflation and currency was quote unquote democracy constitutional democracy was was a big issue for people but what was
so strange about that is that Republicans were more worried about it than Democrats and I go to quite frankly misinformation let me get this you're worried you genuinely believe that these that there's a conspiracy across all are electoral officials and that the election was stolen
that's where your misinformation really came in Republicans were more worried about constitutional democracy than Democrats who had seen their representatives cowering in fear because a guy still hasn't conceded the election this is just there's no getting around it people are now
getting two thirds of their information from platforms that have a vested economic interest in spreading misinformation because it's just more novel and it's more interesting there's going to be so many forensics but I think where the Republicans tactically did really well with I
think Trump's embrace of the manosphere he went on the top five or six kind of manosphere podcasts yeah and basically said if you're a young person or a young man or someone who sees how you're a young man in your life is struggling I got your back and I think people are really turned off
what they view as self-appointed social justice police on the left and there's just a there's such an enormous shift taking place demographically my one of my role models Peter dracos used to say demographics are destiny it's no longer true there's if you look at the border states latinos and
border states actually swung very much towards Trump a lot of yeah a lot of immigrants are like I came here legally I'm not down with what's going on here or they don't have the same empathy for other immigrants let me read something there was someone who was doing some research around
Filipinos and other immigrants and Hawaii that are Republicans the sources of information are nothing like we've ever heard of yes there is still the staple of fox news and news backs there's also a lot of reading of epic times one america news and rumble but I had a deep conversation with a
native Hawaiian let's call her lily regards Trump as a demigod she showed me on her phone the stuff she reads and listens to every day I have never heard of them before and we listen to them together the conspiracy theories in these sites are wild to say the least but she is convinced they are true
this is this that it's really it does work these things of where people are getting their information so that'll be I think the information environment and and now I understand why Elon bought Twitter that's my feel you have a really interesting you popped up in my my feed something you said on
CNN about your thesis around oh him true social in Twitter I thought that was the land yeah I thought someone very big wrote me that and who was right before about him and they think they're going to merge true social with Twitter and then take it public well it's already public you're saying
it'd be reverse merger you have a public vehicle with true social yeah yeah that would be a massive delusion for Twitter shareholders who would basically be getting three million revenue and have to give up a third or half the company yeah but it would be a way to your point of funneling billions
of dollars from musk to Donald Trump legally as far as I can tell yeah yeah anyway it was interesting when someone brought that up to me all right well let's get to everything now and by the way again we're sorry we were wrong audience I don't know what to say we I think we live in a
different place and have different values and this been a different things that are important to us anyway let's move on there's a lot to get today we're going to dig what the victory means for tech and business we're going to look forward including the impact on the economy big tech regulation
and social media let's start with the market stock sword on Wednesday following the news of Trump's victory the Dow had its biggest single day gain in two years on Wednesday up 3.5 percent the S&P was up 2.5 percent and then Aztec 3 percent Trump media shares spiked around $44 to share though not
quite as high as predicted you predicted if Trump won you thought $80 Tesla went up nearly 15% making Elon Musk richer than ever in Vidya and Goldman Sachs hit all-time highs the net worth a billionaires led by Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos who will talk about shortly surged by over $63
billion other winners private prison company geo group and core civic rose 42 percent which is depressing and 27 percent respectively likely anticipating detainments tied to Trump's immigration policies talk a little bit Scott about the stock reaction so to be fair the markets
actually bifurcated here and that is the stock market likes it because stocks are basically the present value of growth opportunity and and what the earnings or projected earnings are of a company and there's a belief that they call it growth but basically what they're anticipating is
an extension or even additional tax cuts on corporations which will increase their earnings and increase their stock price so the markets love it but the first person I heard from who said it's over the first person to call it and who was right was the a friend of mine named Justin who's
the chief investment officer for millennium which manages $7,80 billion dollars he was the co-head of Goldman Sachs this fixed income department this guy has a very big brain and I said how do you know are you I know I said I immediately went to because of Georgia I'm like what are you watching
the map and you said no the credit markets the 10 years spiking and the markets understand that Trump whose policies will be much more inflationary is about to win and I thought that was really fascinating because if you look at the credit markets they believe that Trump's policies
will be inflationary and the 10 years actually spiked in terms of the yield so companies are the equity markets like it because I think earnings are going to go up because of a lower tax burden on them but the credit markets right now don't love it because I think his policies are going to be
inflationary and but the S&P had its best day in nearly two years I mean the markets the equity markets like this and again I hate these signals because they're false flags because the vast majority of equity of stock market equity in this country is held by a small number of people so basically
what the market was telling us is that one his policies are likely going to be inflationary and two the rich incorporations are going to do really well yeah yeah that sounds about right the price of Bitcoin also rocketed to an all-time high of $75,000 an electionite crypto related stocks
also ticking upwards the Trump has previously voted the idea of government-owned Bitcoin reserve and pledged to fire SEC chair Gary Gensler who is considered an enemy by the crypto industry they spent a lot of money trying to get rid of shared brown and others who were opposed to their
sort of wild lifestyles essentially what do you think will happen if he strips backregion any regulation there's hardly any but any regulation well the bull case is that they have been somewhat remiss to embrace innovation in trying to protect the dollar and that they're getting in the way
of true innovation across what is the biggest asset class in the world and that is the dollar so we know we're going to get we're going to get less regulation which will be if you're a bull on Bitcoin and innovation around this stuff they'll be more investment into the category you can already
imagine and recent and some other funds starting to deploy capital again into the crypto world you're going to see more fraud more people lose money more shit coins you probably will see to be fair more innovation you'll see less regulation you'll see soaring prices I believe across some of
the mainstays it's already happened Bitcoin maybe ETH but you're also going to see a bunch of people basically Gensler will be gone you'll see what you also might see though is actual stimulus or support I can see I just I wouldn't be surprised if these guys were money good on being
publicly very supportive of him and in exchange their payback now or their compensation is he's going to say each year we're going to take you know a hundred billion dollars and put it into this asset class called Bitcoin I wouldn't be surprised if he basically comes up with something
that not only blesses it and reduces regulation they talked about it he's the create stimulus for this sector so you're about to see you're about to see the go-go days again I think in kind of blockchain and crypto and funds pop up and start deploying capital again yeah we'll see and
lots of problems of course official regulation moving on to the bigger picture of the economy voters cited the economy as one of their top concerns and exit polls and clearly they think Trump is the man to manage these things reminder Trump is pro's high tariffs and targeted tax
breaks he's also floating ending federal income tax and replacing it with revenue from tariffs he said the economic plan will rapidly defeat inflation which most people think the opposite quickly bring down prices and reignite explosive economic growth how soon before inflation goes up you just
mentioned it talk about that what do you think where the tariff thing is terrifying to most economists you have to be said what he said what he said what he said about right so he's proposing anywhere from like 60 to 100% tariffs to be fair with the market is saying and so far the markets kind of
gotten it right I thought polymarket these betting markets were way overestimating the estimating the probability that he would win very early in the evening if you want a polymarket it had him at 90 10 and I thought what 90 there's no path but basically the market is saying that they believe as far
if I tried to interpret the market that they believe there's going to be a split government and he won't be able to push through these economically disastrous tariffs because the market is not seeing that spooked the credit market does think there's going to be inflation but we live in a consumer
economy and if you if you saw these tariffs actually actually implemented I do think you to immediately see a recession and the market I think is saying we don't think he's going to get these through or he's not going to go through with it because these these actual proposed tariffs would
be and are just insane in terms of what they would do the economy yeah yeah market doesn't think it's going to happen they don't think he can do it even though he talked about it yeah I think in general the market is basically had a big yon instead other than cutting taxes on corporations
and and the wealthy we think this is going to be if I read what the government the markets are saying we think this is a split government and there aren't going to be any radical changes to fundamental radical changes to well not if he wins the house also that which is still up up for grabs although
it looks like I don't see I can't imagine several Republicans I think several Republicans are going to go Joe Manchin and love the limelight and say tariffs or attacks on the consumer and I'm not comfortable with this I do think you'd see some Republicans defect because he really can't come
and get them the same way because he's almost dead right he's old he's not going to be able to attack the energy he's not going to have the dissident 88% of Christmas gifts under the Christmas tree are from China you you know I know it's really scary things are they yeah there's no making a
popular argument saying no we can't have our our Christmas gifts for our little ones go up I mean I don't think he's the market is saying they don't buy these tariffs at least at the scale he's proposing yeah yeah because he's more integrated and he doesn't have the he can't target people as
well in the next he doesn't have that power that he had a technically a lame duck president starting in about a month yeah yeah that's interesting to think about and they certainly doesn't have the juice that other that he does he's going to try to grab it but I don't think he has the juice
big tech leaders are taking the social media of course they can gradually Donald Trump this is this is typical let's just start off with that the one that stuck out the Mark Zuckerberg Tim Koch Sachin Adele is Sooner Pachayan Sam Altman wish Trump well I thought they were pretty
anodine so did Mark Cuban he was like Godspeed you know what I mean he was like you one fair and square which I thought was fair I thought that was classy of him to do so he didn't like slavishly say something the person who did Jeff Bezos was quite different from the others he was on the
first kiss the ring calling Trump's win an extraordinary political comeback into size of victory it it had it did not have a tone of someone who owns the Washington Post he's the only one who actually has another thing he's got to think about which he didn't at all in any way so I thought
that was problematic and it was much more effusive than the others you know they all want to work with this administration they've done it before they don't want to be in his crosshairs and they'd like to get rid of all the different investigations and and things like that although a lot of
Republicans like these investigations very much and so that's a really interesting pushback talk a little bit about these CEOs obviously you more than more than anyone tech CEOs weighed in they're smart to do it Kara he responds to this type of obsequious flattery and if they're
they're focused on their shareholders they're smart to do it and it's it kind of have to you throw up a little bit in your mouth when when it's more than anything just than just a polite congratulations but if you reverse engineer to shareholder value they're smart to do it just a
lot of foreign leaders pretend that he's really interesting and are and that they're fascinated with him and he's going to get more he's going to get more you know when when you're quoting someone and they tell you that they're really into jewelry or baseball trading cards
and that they will like you if you buy them these things you buy them these things and he's made it clear that if you say nice things about them it works yeah so I think they're smart to do it yeah I agree but I thought basis was a little bit effusive compare if you could put them next to
each other it's really quite a different tone and he does also own the Washington Post he might have been a little less ask it's all about money the Washington Post I understand that but he nothing but a news channel then he should know it then stop owning something where you have to
we're talking about short verses is yeah Jeff Bezos is all about money you already did that already with the dumping the endorsements so I just felt like he should have maybe been a little less kiss assy that's my good but you're saying he's the wrong owner and we've agreed yes that's
correct anything about the Peter Teal factor I think he's the quiet one here musk gets all the we're going to talk about Elon in a second but I think Peter Teal is the one the real mastermind here in so many ways and I know people I thought he clocked Trump early and was in there at the
last election I think he clocked Vance I think he's been quiet he's doesn't need all the attention the way musk does I think he's far smarter than Elon Musk in many ways and I think he's the all roads lead to Peter Teal in this regard even though he'd seem like he was out of the election
right but I don't I feel like is every one of his tenants is here is present here you you first highlighted this to me and it struck me as something I had I just hadn't thought about it not at least it I hadn't connected the dots the way you had and I've thought about it more and more and I think
what you're saying makes sense because I mean here's this scary thing with Trump's age and body mass index there's about a one in three chance he leaves the White House feed first you know in four years and two months and obese what is he 78 year old man it would be very hard to get life
insurance and that puts a guy in the White House who will never utter one word to Peter Teal and that word is no he owes everything to Peter Teal he that's how we got to be a senator that's how he got the VP spot and so if Peter Teal calls them and says I need you to do it this tax or put a
tariff here or deregulate this or create a floating island where billionaires don't have to pay tax or we totally ban the following activities or so yeah vans if he can we'll do it I just don't think that could ever say no to Peter he is where he is he is one heartbeat from the presidency
because not because of an impressive business career not because he's a great politician because of Peter Teal yeah that's the one to watch and even though Elon is usual the circus clown likes to take all the attention as Bloomberg put Elon is about to find out what $130 million for Trump gets him
we mentioned the Tesla stock surge that's added 26 billion dollars to his network but Elon stands to benefit in a number of other ways including government efficiency commission role EV and autonomous driving policies that benefit Tesla and more government contracts for SpaceX
Trump has previously pledged to support for Elon's goal of sending a rocket to Mars that one I don't mind so much I honestly don't and as I mentioned I think Elon merges x with true social so I also think they're gonna have a falling out I really feel like this is coming if
I had to make any one prediction that's what I feel like Peter is very quiet in the background and gets exactly what he wants Elon can help himself and neither can Trump and Trump's the president so thoughts well like this arguably you could say that musks $119 million
great investments in donations to Trump were one of the best investments that's ever been made he made it over approximately three or six months and in exchange his net worth has gone up 15 billion dollars just from his Tesla shares which skyrocketed on on news the Trump was
retaking the White House so if someone said to any billionaire or any institution or any hedge fund here's $119 million if you give us $119 million we think if the markets are right there's a two thirds chance you're gonna get 15 billion back yep so you gotta give it to the guy
the best best investment of the year was must dollar his his $119 million investment in the Trump campaign yeah because he was net if she had one he was never gonna get that dinged for also so good yeah that's exactly right 15 billion on $119 million that's the best trade of 2024
yeah so what's gonna happen next now well so I need to disclose we talked about this I was planning you know under see above got it wrong I thought polymarket the gambling site which had it was 46 is owned by Peter teal for errors invested in big Peter teal I didn't know that so 40 60
Harris to Trump's likelihood of being elected so you're gonna get two and a half to one I saw that as a symmetric upside because I thought it was a coin flip according to the polls that I saw so I was I was gonna take $400,000 in put it on Harris thinking I could get a million back and
I want to be clear for people listening this is not investing this is gambling and I can afford to lose that in a wood ruin maybe an afternoon but it wouldn't have any impact on my life and I don't want to in any way tell people that they should be doing this so but I was planning to do it
so I went to the site signed up for it wait till Harris went down to 38 then up to 42 and the site said you can't be a US citizen and then it said you can't transfer money in from the UK so I could not figure out how to get one of these betting sides up so I went to a different strategy yeah
I decided to I sold I did a color call strategy on Donald Trump media and that is I thought if this stock if he loses the stock goes below 10 if he wins it could skyrocket but I also thought if he wins this is no longer a prediction vessel it's just a shitty company and I actually
thought there's a chance it might go down even if he wins so I sold calls at 20 bucks a share way way into the money thinking this thing could crash there's a good likelihood it could crash but I was worried well what is something fucking crazy happens and it goes to 400 and I owe someone
eight million dollars who I sold these calls to so I bought calls way out of the money at 60 I got $20 in premium for buying or selling calls at 20 I got six bucks I cost me six bucks to buy calls at 60 so my downside was limited to like two and a half million bucks my upside capped at one
and a half million and what's happened is he won the stock spiked I'm like I'll fuck bad day for Scott but since then the strategy around it's no longer a tracking stock it's just a shitty company now it's come down I think it opened it about 31 bucks today yeah it's kind of so I got very lucky
it's better to be lucky than good I was going to make a straight wage drawn Harris and couldn't because I'm in the UK and I'm impatient yeah Paul you can't use it yeah that's right yeah so this this kind of I think it's called a call a colored call strategy so far so far is working out because
Donald Trump media I think people are waking up and going okay now what this is a shitty little company yeah it's no longer no longer a prediction machine or gambling it's basically shares are up ownership in a company that has no revenues but is hemorrhaging money yeah interesting we'll wait
and see for you but I mean Peter Till has and along with the founder of a theorem raised money for polymarket thus the earlier this year just you know he's involved in that one too it's interesting times but but a musk and Trump falling out thought real quick thought then we'll go on
you know more about this when I do Kara what it's an interesting theory why do you think because you met there was a movie with John Claude Van Damme where the future in the past person could never come together was called time cop I recommend it to everybody and you couldn't ever be in the
same room with your future self and your present self or your past self whatever because it would blow up the world can't take that in the same place and at the very end the villain gets into or he gets them to get in a room together and then everything breaks loose and they blow up
essentially I don't quite understand it whatever I think these people can't coexist together in the same room for much for too long that's my that's my sense maybe I'll be completely wrong but I feel like that Trump likes the attention and Elon likes the attention and there's only so much attention
to go around and if the same member when banning got kicked out when he got all the attention is being the puppet master of Trump and then banning got and now he didn't get totally kicked to the curb he kept getting brought back but kicked to the curb and brought back he kicked ban into the
curb very early we forget this in the Trump administration because he sucked up all the oxygen so Elon might be very smart to not suck up all the oxygen that's my feeling so I don't have a view on this other than a better version of time cop is the 2012 movie looper starring Joseph Gordon
Levitt and Bruce Willow also with Emily Blunt Piper Parabo and a vastly underrated actor is one of the best actors out there who is it should have been nominated for his role in Escape from Danimor a guy named Paul Dano who was also in Little Miss Sunshine anyways that's a great movie in the
same concept yeah would you like to go back and meet your past self Scott I thought about this a lot I would like to go back to my past self and just say trust me everything's gonna work out I could he really I could have used to hear that a few times interesting how about you would you
like to go back and in I am the same person so no yeah but would you like to go back and say anything to your own yourself maybe invest in something I am video bitch buy and video take that job tell the super until the Subaru and president and put it all in Nvidia yeah no actually take
those some of those jobs that was offered and then have the money to become Elon Musk of presidential politics anyway take some of those jobs I was offered why was offered jobs at all the big tech companies I would have been very wealthy I would have very wealthy because you just know
what I would do I would do that's right everyone asked on Reddit well how why she puts up with me three words Ben Ja men Benjamin that's it now I like you I like you I want to be one of the first people person I want to talk to after this all right let's go on a quick break we come back we'll
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with antitrust regulation we talked earlier about Gary Gensler let's move on to ftc chair Lena con elan musk once or fire jadie vance has said he's a fan i'm guessing she'll probably go but the fftc if people don't forget is currently suing amazon and meta and the medakase was launched
originally under trump and would lead to meta unwinding instagram and whatsapp i don't really know what's going to happen here there's all these conflicting people in the republican party about her is you know there's conservatives i think jadie vance is one of them um thoughts on that i actually
embedding she's going to stay uh a little bit she's wanted to few i mean think about she's one of the few individuals that has fans on both sides even if she has more fans on the democratic side she's not offensive she strikes me as quite politically astute she and also trump is not a big
fan of some of the company she's going after yeah he doesn't have the attention span to stay that focused on this and it doesn't kind of soften his image to leave the existing younger wonky woman in as chair of the fdc i don't know i have to do more reporting on it to find out
but i mean a lot of these tech companies are hoping that's what will happen and these these will go away they shall be kicked out yeah yeah but he's it's real i'm curious for you to know this there's competing forces here right vance particularly and mat gaits he still hit with us unfortunately
um you know those people are quite fans of them and they don't trust big tech uh they have to couch out e-line now but i think in general they're not tech fans but if he's just playing poker and thinking about leverage why wouldn't he let these antitrust actions and trials continue and then
right when it gets to the eve when he has real power maybe commons i want this and i'll kill it i don't know yeah why wouldn't you play poker and continue to turn the screws on them yeah it's cool and he loves it someone you know that two dogs in a box saying he likes that he does that all
the time it is other company and i fight in a closet yeah something like that um uh let's move on to the doj which is doing apple from monopolizing the smartphone market then there are the two google anti monopoly cases the one over ad tech and the other over search the search one was
originally launched by trump steo j the district court judge ruled the summer that google has an illegal monopoly over search but remedies won't get decided until the summer i'm not so sure he has control over this at this point he seemed to switch gears on breaking up google saying if you
do that are you going to destroy the company what can you do without breaking up to make sure it's more fair um again same thing i'm not sure he has as much control over this as that because it's already the case has already been decided but certainly um you know we'll see what happens
there'll be another antitrust person we'll be interested to see who he picks that'll that'll matter rather than john canter this is a guy that supposedly every person that presented to him was coached by the people in new trump few just a few words and pictures so i think anything that's
complicated and exhausting like the nuance of the doj trial i think ultimately that he just moves on and forgets about it i don't yeah i'm going forward i don't think he's that i think he's like a catch like oh look over here uh catch his and a red dot i saw i think this stuff my guess
would be this stuff to explain why we're not doing it bringing someone new all the meetings required all the economy needs to talk to i think he'll just get exhausted by and say oh fuck it just let him do it let me try to slip it by him right that's i don't know i feel like
advance will be important here and this really could be could insert himself in this we'll see he might get that that worked advance yeah that's interesting yeah but obviously everyone is uh focusing on tiktok um trump is the first president to own his own social network as shitty as it is
um he tried to roll back portions of section two three during his first term rather clotishly didn't work he wanted to ban tiktok in his first term back in september he wanted to put mark zuckerberg in jail um he seemed to change his mind on tiktok um do you think the ban is off
the table it's certain it's been passed though by congress so where where does this go this this case there's so many moving parts here that we're not privy to one of his biggest donors is this guy yes who's Jeff yes Jeff has his biggest position as in tiktok he has a lot of probably in the
uh people who are big investors and sequoia capitol general panic partners are in tiktok he claims that he's angry at meta in tiktok is a threat to meta he could get on the phone with she and say okay you stop this bullshit around tariffs you do this i'll do this and they come to some sort of
agreement or he could he could decide you know to let them continue to do their work and maybe elison calls him it says if you ban it i'm gonna buy it i mean there's so many moving parts and backroom dealing that's gonna happen here that i think it's the progress to pass the ban so the
ban it's not it's not a maybe thing it's a they have till this time to do something can he reverse it though i don't think so executive order could he to extend this day so i we have to find out i don't believe it yeah i think the answer is i don't know yeah but where do you imagine he'll go
and talk a little bit about meta when he threatened to put mark zucker berg who's kissing his ass now in jail i don't think he's gonna go there i mean i'm i'm turning into one of these people i don't want to be one of these people that finds this threat's cute or oh that he's not gonna
actually do that i think it would be very difficult and i think it marks zucker berg i mean marx zucker berg is very powerful if marx zucker berg actually believes he might go to jail i you want to see someone put their thumb on the scale of certain types of content
if someone was coming for me for jail i would i would very elegantly quietly and in a discipline flash fashion put that whole ridiculous governance board shove them to the side and say i'm gonna show you what it's like when you threaten to put me in jail and you know what people
aren't even gonna know what's going on because i control two-thirds of their news feed and if you think the ccp has turned up turned up polarization and division within america amongst our youth wait and see what i do to you boss well i don't think he has the set to do it but okay
they zucker berg has the set to do it yeah i don't know i think jail is pretty fucking scary i think i think the prospect of jail or let me put it this way the opportunity to stay out of jail if this guy really starts threatening you with what i'm sure mark believes is a legal incarceration
he's gonna say all right all right bitch you want to dance let's dance because people forget that mark zucker berg is is hands down one of the most powerful people in the world when you control right when you back to what you're saying about misinformation more republicans were worried about
the peaceful transfer of power than democrats this is sucked this if anything brings home to you the power of social media it's that and to think that yeah mark zucker berg couldn't make like very difficult for Donald trump it's not to acknowledge the fact that two-thirds of americans
are now getting their news from meta yeah yeah it's interesting because elans explicitly aggressive and mark certainly could be he's not his style to be threatening i would think anyway it'll be interesting it's interesting to see who we they try to go after um you know we i was joking with
mark uvon that we're gonna share a jail cell and we can call ourselves the manendez brothers except with a hundred percent less murder um but i don't think he's gonna like and who has who starts dating that who starts uh i and the hot guy in the shower that's what i want to
wait i got the tall drink eliminated you've been watching that he's very sexy he's very sexy that's it now what the last thing what do you think it means for content moderation in general they're not gonna do it they're tired they're not gonna do it anymore
no it's fucking wild west now i mean yes if there's the alacca content moderation got him elected republicans are worried about the peaceful transfer of power and democracy thank you misinformation yeah exactly there's a they're gonna they now know they don't have to do anything and i think
again we're gonna be studying this in 10 years the propaganda is such an important part of what happened here um all right Scott one more quick break we'll be back for wins and fails this episode is brought to you by on investing an original podcast from Charles Schwab
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there's a lot of them and focus on the positive why don't you go first um so i have a one about the election one just more about economics so i have two wins i think one way to feel if you're feeling bad about this is and i want to highlight i think a lot
of people should feel um some consolation because i know so many people who just left it all on the field so to speak my friends robber may my partner at proptimee catherine dillon her husband jeffrey lis plank showed up at a rally in philadelphia my friend wittany tilson these are people who
got on planes from la or trans from dc they went to philadelphia and started knocking on doors and while i imagine they're devastated they can feel like i showed up i tried i think there are so many people that that uh really tried hard so my win is people who left quote unquote left it on
the field though the other win is i really do believe that we're about to see disruption amongst local television stations who got about i mean just hundreds of millions of dollars in spending actually three to one from the Harris campaign towards the end thinking that old people decide
elections and they can find them all on local news which i describe as a depiction of what stupid people did today oh two people in a in a in a in a car in a bad part of town got robbed today i mean anyways you're going to see all most of that money not even go to digital it's going to go to podcast
kara this was the election of the manosphere as brought to you by podcasters and you're going to see and there's really think about it once the last time we had a political ad we haven't right you're about to see a disruption in the local news broadcast television advertising market
and all of that money is going to go to podcasts and if if you look at graphs of attention versus revenue 20 years ago it was the internet is a third of time and eight percent of revenue and newspapers were eight percent of time in a third of revenue and it flipped money always follows
attention and attention to skyrocketing in 2025 we're going to see podcast revenue accelerate faster than tiktok meta or alphabet and then in 26 we're going to see a massive disruption and transfer of advertising dollars from local news stations to podcast because that's where
voters are hanging out this was no yeah amongst seniors yeah they voted and actually interestingly enough seniors was the only age group that went more Harris where Harris actually picked up votes versus 2020 but what they're going to find is the swingiest of swing voters are young people they're
the ones that are most impressionable and most up for grabs and guess what yeah where's their medium podcast the I can't agree with you more I mean I was I'm already talking to people who are well known like here's what we're going to do we're taking advantage of this and building our own there's
a bro sphere there's another sphere right that you can really do well on and motivate and excite people right and not a bubble but really bring people together in a really interesting I think it's an opportunity I've been thinking of podcast ideas all day I agree with you in two years in two years
are our advertisers in not two years 22 months from now it's not going to be zip critter athletic greens or LinkedIn we like them we love them it's going to be so and so candidate for senator congress or or president you watch you're about to see billions of dollars flesh into the system
and economics always end up catching up to attention and attention to scar and not only that the great white rhino of advertisers is the individual they no longer can reach and that's a young wealthy male where are they podcasts yeah I'm saying doesn't have to be just bros there's other the bro sphere isn't the only sphere and there's other spheres why I just I'm sorry
prof. G is 80% male pivot is 70% average household income $150,000 that's called an advertisers dream because those people are stupid and spend money on high margin products like watches and cars and supplements and all this crazy high margin shit they're all on the demographic
the average the average viewer age of a viewer on msnbc is 70 years old the average podcast listeners 34 which means for every person my age there's someone who just became a voter so and those people spend a lot of money on high marginal products which is Latin for advertisers
love those people I think all the moons are lining up for what you're telling me is you're going to turn into a Joe Rogan suddenly over the next couple of years and I'll have to kill you right well I hope we both turn into Joe Rogan in terms of our reach and our money but
reach is different than our attitude you're talking to the guy who pulled his podcast down from Spotify because of vaccine information I know I know I'm just watching I have to watch I watch you because sometimes it's invasion of the body snatchers I've had several friends who've turned in
ways I really can't abide I have to say so it's an invasion of the body snatchers things don't fall asleep Scott don't fall asleep what you never saw invasion of the body snatchers Donald Sutherland and if you fall asleep you become a snatched you get snatched well it's that name that was one of
my first crutches who is the female lead in that oh boy brook brook brook brook brook brook brook brook something we're not gonna she was amazing what happened to her like all female actresses she hit 40 and couldn't find another job she was amazing brook brook Adams oh yeah brook Adams she
was very good actually Jeff Goldboom was in that god is that for me how my my guess is his agent called the director and got a minute letter neem oil was in it oh my gosh well go back let's go back and watch that together and then we'll wear our pajamas all right so here's mine
I know everyone's feeling bad and I do and I wrote a very as I said a long thread that like I was walking in like at least 50 people hugged me for my thread which was fascinating to me but one of the things that you there always like I got a lot of right wing people's like now you see
we're right I'm like you're not that right it was 50% and they really want you to like feel bad about feeling the way you do your opinions are just as good as anybody else's if you have them if you feel abortions important if you feel that whatever you think is important is important
because it's what you think about it and so don't don't give in to the now we have to understand them they don't want to understand us either and I don't mean not to get along but everyone's going to try to bring you to heal now and don't we don't have to like it you don't have to cooperate
I think a lot of what Trump was was appealing to was ranker and selfishness fine that's I get it you don't but you don't have to be easy you can resist you can say no don't feel the need to be nice in fact be disrespectful they do it and work for them um and I don't mean all the time be
the person you are and also lose people who tell you to accept this if they don't if you are not on the same plane lose them I'm sorry it's okay to feel angry fed up disappointed it's required and so I just I'm not gonna just like they don't apologize I'm not apologizing and so I feel like
there's always moments where you can get together and understand and listen to each other 100 fucking percent but you do not have to agree you do not have to knuckle under and and you just just fight for what you believe in and listen to what they have and try to build coalitions in that
regard um but we are never the this election said anything is we do not agree so how do we figure out a way to get somewhere where we're all moving forward that's my feeling thank you very much this my speech I like that and and just add on to that something also very important is that we
talk about broke Adam's filmography she was not only in the invasion of the body snatchers she was so good she was in what I believe is one of the most underrated films from one of the greatest authors in history Stephen King's the dead zone who's starring Christopher walk in that is it and
also Martin Sheen that is a fantastic film and a quick fun fact here she is married to Tony Shalube of Monk fame what an interesting couple what oh my god Brooke Adams wait she is yeah since they've been married for 32 years okay then I just met her because he came up to me in
Nantucket and said he loved the podcast really yeah guys are real talent he's really yes the guy who was Monk yeah and then he was on Marvelous Miss Maisel oh my she was with him I didn't know that this is see that's a victory for every guy she was standing next to him I didn't
recognize that's a victory for every guy who's not that attractive but is very talented and funny who can get very not so the very hot woman very very he's totally attractive oh my god oh my god then I actually met her and I didn't know this is nuts what I love you Brooke Adams I love
you Brooke Adams let me just say I love you Tony Shealube too anyway let's move on from the Brooke Adams love fest go back and watch her movies they're great I want to also mention that on the latest episode of on with Kara Swisher I spoke with two presidential historians today to
get some perspective it was really helpful to all of us as we try to anticipate what's ahead one of those historians oh stop it no these things doing amazingly well on the pie I'm sorry to tell you Scott they do well Lindsay Chervinsky offered a helpful reminder and then Grover Cleveland said
to the secretary of interior let's see where she does George Washington the other guy does Nixon let's listen quiet Scott Galloway there are still ways that even if Trump can't always be held accountable the people around him can be whether it is through the rule of law through our court
system through public accountability and we have to continue to try and use every mechanism of accountability possible which is I think the legal side or the public side of the don't you know obey in advance but the best and most long lasting way to combat authoritarianism is through
accountability and so we just have to keep trying because the most pernicious thing will be if we do give up hope so we cannot give up and we have to keep trying to hold people to account that's perfect and the word you're looking for is oh no you didn't anyway it was a good interview
you should listen to it we do incredible with those historians also had a presidential historian on property markets and I'll give you I'll let you guess who it was he he cited the following fact about presidents from George Washington to George Bush total deficits seven trillion dollars
in four years with Donald Trump eight trillion guess who that presidential historian was best one is my go Anthony Scaremucci who is who is shockingly knowledgeable about history he is he is he's a funny guy I love that you know when you were gone in August that show when we had
him on did incredibly well by the way he does he does well wherever he goes he literally is the fan favorite of any podcast he goes on yeah he's very funny he's much I think people are expecting him not to be quite as sharp I don't know why but they do because of that that time in the White House
anyway we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind go to ny mag dot com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot before we go I want to share a clip from Amazon's election night special with Brian Williams whereas you
mentioned you made an appearance Brian had some fun with a classic Scott Galloway catchphrase at the end of your segment and I think our loyal listeners will enjoy let's listen those of you playing our home game that was the first mention of champagne and cocaine for the evening and the
circle gets the square it goes to Scott Galloway in London thanks for that I didn't know you're going to do that that's nice yes champagne did you watch any of it on Amazon I did not oh it's really good I still think CNN did the best job but Amazon was really it was really slick I went to sleep
beautiful no really beautiful no but champagne and cocaine there you go there you go the next four years I think you know I think that kind of says it all she's flashing the cash flinging the bling champagne and cocaine oh I can't believe we have to look at that son of a bitch for four more
years the ridiculous hands the tiny hands the whole thing I thought that was gone it's not okay here we are stuck in the middle with each other stuck in the middle we have each other we have each other to deal with small hands and bad makeup all right we'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot Scott
read us out today's show is produced by Larry namens zoi Marcus Taylor Griffin and Christine Driscoll earned user time to need this episode thanks also to Drew burrows misseveral and Dan Shulon new shot career as box media executive producer of audio make sure you subscribe to show
where every listen podcast thank you for listening to pivot from New York magazine of box media you can subscribe to the magazine at nymack.com slash pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems
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