Ghislaine's DOJ Interview, Cracker Barrel's Logo Change, and Guest Co-Host Tim Miller

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You and I would go to a Liberace show. I love Liberace. I also like Don Ho. I'm in that zone.

Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and welcome back to... I never get tired of that. It's the final week of Scott Free August, though. He is coming back soon. He's been texting me lately, so we know he's getting a little jumpy on his vacation in his expensive house, wherever it happens to be. But I have yet another amazing co-host. This has been an astonishing month. Tim Miller, welcome to Pivot.

Hey, Kara, I've just been kind of warming up some takes about narcissism and the crisis of young men and Cialis and stuff to help people, you know, kind of transition back into Scott September. Okay, go for it. Do you have anything? Well, no, I think it's important to encourage older men to use Cialis and encourage younger men to get out there in the world and find women to sleep with or men, whatever, because we don't want incels.

to other problems in society. And I think Scott's really, really good on this point. Yeah. Okay, good. Well, thank you. You'll be you. That's the whole point of this endeavor. And you are a certain personality. You are also the host of the Bulwark podcast where you do a great job and former GOP strategist. I cannot believe that at this point. Anyway, welcome. It's been a decade.

Yeah, so talk about your podcast a little bit, and what's the most interesting conversation you've had on there? Oh boy, ever or recently? Recently.

You know, look, the podcast, it's a daily podcast. There's a bit of a grind. I feel this obligation to be on the news and get in the news, while at the same time, like... If it's fucking Trump is awful porn every day, you know, I'm going to kill myself. And I think that the listeners will too. And so you have to kind of have a balance between that. So I don't know. I mean, like, for example, in the Trump porn one, I loved my John Lovett conversation recently because I made him cry.

I think mine is the only podcast he's cried on. So people want to get in touch with their feelings. He seems like a crier to me. Yeah, exactly. So if you want to get in touch with their feelings, you can listen to two gay men who hide our feelings underneath sarcasm. try to expand. I had your boy J-Cal on a couple weeks ago. I thought that was interesting. My boy? It's a gag. It's a gag. Okay, good. I don't know if you feel this way. It's hard.

I really want to, in the second Trump term, like have people on who are less radicalized against him than me just to kind of hash it out. It's important to hear the other perspectives. The problem is most Trump supporters are full of shit. And so it's. And I don't want anybody on the podcast that's full of shit. I know you guys do this too. I just, I want only people on who are going to say what they really think. And so I can't have somebody on who like.

We'll say one thing on the podcast in the green room and be like, you know, he really he really has gone too far on this thing. You know, that doesn't work. And so they do just for people who don't know. They'll come up to you in a green room and be like, I agree with you. And you're like, you fucking asshole. That's when I truly hate.

This is Jason Gallagher, right? Yeah, Jason Gallagher is an all-in podcast. He at least will say when he disagrees with Trump, which I think he's at least telling the truth to me. Well, he's an interesting... I've known him for 30, 40 years now. He was a media person. He ran a bunch of tech stuff.

You know, he's kind of a jazz hands kind of fella. I don't know what else to put it. He's really loathsome to Scott for reasons undetermined, probably jealousy. We used to be friends, I would say. I would say it at his house and stuff like that. need to suck up to power is really quite distasteful to me. And, you know, he's sort of like the clown to Elon or whatever that group of people he's on the podcast with all in.

I feel bad because I thought he was very clever and actually one of the early media entrepreneurs and a really enthusiastic person. But one of the things that I always had a problem in our relationship was that he was... He couldn't do hard things. Like, he was a very big proponent of Travis Kalanick until everybody turned on Travis Kalanick. And then he was against Travis Kalanick. And then when he came back, he was for Travis. I'm like, do you have any?

lasting values of anything but that's what bothers me is it well i thought that was an interesting it's interesting you say that because one of the interesting things about the interview was like Because that's his nature. He was totally candid about the fact, one of the things that I try to get to, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, is like, why did all of these billionaires...

become putty in Trump's hands. I get that in some cases, they want access. It's about power. It's about money. If Trump's going to act like authoritarian, they need to do it. But in other cases, they didn't really need to, and they did it anyway. And why? And he's just blunt. about the fact that like,

Trump, you know, responds to their phone calls. Biden never did. Their feelings, their little fifis were hurt, that Elon wasn't invited to some summit. And like, and so I thought that was like interesting just how blunt he was about that. But like sucking up to power was.

like the reason why these guys do it like basically and that's it it's no deeper than that which he is very good at let me just say and again i like jason because i feel bad we don't speak now and because he won't speak to me because they're mad at me and i'm like don't you have any fucking balls jason you know we had a pretty good

relationship. And he won't because he's like, because it's sort of like the court jester in a lot of ways to those people. I think, you know, he doesn't have as much money as they do. He has a lot of money, but not like that. Like, and so I think he's often wanted to monetize. that podcast better than they do. And it's degenerated into, he used to run a bunch of other startup events that I really liked, actually. I thought they were very clever. They were sort of, again,

jazz hands a lot. But I just feel like he just has made a trade that I don't love. And I wish he would call me because I'm like, it's fine to argue, Jason.

But now even he's gotten hurt. Like, you said something and it hurt me. I'm like, oh, fuck you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, come on. Call Kara, Jason. Call Kara, Jason. Now I feel bad that I mentioned that. You put me on the spot about recent interviews. No, no, no. I think he's really smart. I should have mentioned, like, somebody who would have, you know, not tried.

No, but he's really smart and insightful. And you know what I love? I love him to be Truman fucking Capote and write a book when it's all over, turning. on all of them i would love that because i bet he has some really good insight anybody to turn on chamath i'm for so i signed up for that too but um i should have mentioned eugene carroll her that was one of my that was my favorite interview recently because i was worried you never know i didn't actually know

I never met her. She is such a salty bitch, isn't she? Oh, my God. The podcast started with her listing all the people that she had had sex with because she included that in her book. It's the best list I've ever heard. I forget what it is. It's like six people, but they're all famous. Yeah, they are. Yeah. She's a salty bitch, as they say. I like that. Like, you know, kind of thing. You do it daily? That's crazy.

Daily? What the fuck? You've revealed yourself as not a daily listener, which is fine. My feelings aren't hurt. It's a lot of material. I can't. I listen to it. You know where I listen to it? I listen to it on social media. I listen to pieces and pieces. Yeah, great. I definitely listen to it every day because I go through my feeds.

Yeah, that's how people consume stuff now. Yeah, no, it's every day. I think it's important, like, look, it's important for people to be in a rhythm. You guys have a rhythm. One of the things that people are, with media, is you've got to be promiscuous in a way that... you know, and in their ear and in their head because...

And in genuine ways. It's very different than a TV appearance, which you're also on. Because it's you. Like, this is my take, and they get to trust you. And that's the critical part of having a daily relationship. One thing you said I want to...

poke on this Trump porn, Trump porn stuff. Talk about that, that idea. You don't want to just be endlessly reacting to this. Yeah, it's tough. Long dong silver. Yeah, short dong silver. My pledge to myself after he won was like, I'm only going to get mad about what I'm mad about.

And there's going to be a lot to be mad about, you know, but I'm not like if he does something that is like, you know, that I know I could do a little bit on that would be fake or fun. I just I'm not going to do that because like a life's too short. B, it kind of helps him, I think, frankly, you know, because off.

Oftentimes those topics are things that he wants to be out there. And I just don't think it does listen to people that are tuning in any service to do that. So that's my thing. It's hard. Look, there's... so many indignities every day. And so there's sometimes an obligation to bring up stuff that I feel like that's not getting enough attention that's in the news, right? But if it just becomes, you know, one day, it's like, oh, well, Trump did this thing that's horrible. The next thing he did...

this other thing that's horrible, the next thing you do this other thing that's horrible, and there's no, the frequency isn't any different, right? If it's the same frequency the whole time, then, you know, everybody, you become numb to it. You do, you get acclimated. Yeah.

yeah so i just i think it's important for everybody and i don't even really mean this in a political sense like it's important politically i do think it's important for the democrats to figure out ways to keep people from becoming numb to it but i just mean in like a now that i've now that i'm a former republican i've switched sides i can use lib terms like this now i mean

it like in a self-care way like don't become numb to this and just have it be like oh every day I just wake up and I get my fix of how awful it is yeah no it's like no today this thing is actually really fucking bad and we should be really mad about it and focused on it

a way that's different. I think the problem is Trump is oxygen, right, at this moment. He's everywhere. There's nothing. Climate change, you could do a thing. Vaccines, you could do a thing. Like, all kinds of things. And it's hard when you're talking about other things not to...

be aware of it because it's like nothing matters except this. And that's what he's done really effectively. But let's see what you get really mad about. We've got a lot to get to today, including what Jelaine Maxwell is saying about Trump. All good things. What a surprise.

And Jeffrey Epstein and MAGA is melting down over the stupid Cracker Barrel logo. But I do think that's a much more interesting story than just the logo, which is interesting. But first, President Trump is threatening to send National Guard troops to Chicago, New York and Baltimore as part of his.

effort to crack down on crime. Pentagon has been planning a military deployment in Chicago for weeks now, according to The Washington Post. Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker is accusing Trump of trying to, quote, manufacture a crisis, while over in Maryland, Governor Wes Moore set Trump off after inviting him to walk the streets of Baltimore.

He offered a golf cart, by the way. Meanwhile, guard troops are now carrying weapons on the streets of D.C. A Pete Hegseth directive makes me feel more unsafe as a D.C. resident. A CNN analysis of government data found a moderate drop in reported crime in D.C.

during the first week of Trump's takeover, a far larger surge in the arrest of immigrants. Bill Maher has been talking about a slow-moving coup for a while now. In his latest episode, he laid out how Trump's recent actions suggest a coup may already be underway. It's a little long, but let's listen.

First, create a masked police force. Get people used to looking at that. Normalize snatching people off the street. Get them used to that. Normalize seeing the car, the National Guard and the military. on the street. Then start talking about crime in the capital, which is basically, you know, has always been a fairly crime-ridden city. This is our nation's capital where elections are decided.

And then have, because the crime is so bad, have other states start sending their troops, not just the National Guard there in D.C., but now at least six other states are sending their troops, which then Trump can then federalize. So you're having many states troops on the ground there, and now they're under federal control. So you have in the Capitol a sort of permanent police presence.

So let's talk about this. I live here. I just took my daughter to the first day of public school today. The images couldn't be different. He's not a crime-ridden city. It's actually crime has been improving, as Democrats have been pointing out. There's crime in every city. There's a lot of crime in Houston, for example. There's a lot of crime in Alabama in the cities and wherever it doesn't matter. Cities are like this. The second thing is this idea of people on the streets with guns.

There haven't been a lot of protests, and it's not because people think this is a good thing. I know this. I've talked to lots and lots of people. There's been a real... icing of the workforce around ICE, people not coming to work. I just talked to someone who does some yard work for me, they can't come because of ICE.

because they're worried, their workers are worried, shut down at restaurants, et cetera. Talk a little bit about this because, you know, and then the threats to go to Chicago, to Baltimore, to New York, obviously, if Zoran Mandani wins. for example.

Yeah, I like that Bill Maher. I felt like he was kind of lecturing people about that. He was mad that people were mad at him for going to visit Trump earlier. And it's like, this is why he's like consolidating power. And it's important to just be clear about what it is, what he's trying to do.

And to me, like the thing about this, that that makes me the most upset is this combination of this kind of like military state military theater like with the actual you know mass thugs hassling uh people that are here sometimes

legally, sometimes not, you know, and they went and they tear gassed that guy and like banged through his window in California, who is a U.S. citizen, George Redis. And so we'll kind of, you know, he's now going to be able to sue. But like, this is what they're doing, right? Like it is, they're acting with impunity.

the imagery of it, like feels very un-American and it's just, it's wrong. It's like not, it feels like it's in a banana Republic. It's like what we have, we've got these new trucks now with daddy Trump's name on it. And you know, like people. walking through the streets in the military uniforms and and and then they're jumping out of unmarked cars with masks like that's not how things should you know that's not what this country should be about people should be

outrage and pushing back on it. And I think that to Bill's point, like there's like this slow burn element of it about like getting people used to it that I think is really is really alarming. So, you know, we'll kind of see how this stuff could continue. on to Chicago and Maryland and what else they decided to do, New York, maybe Baltimore, Chicago.

uh but like he's not he's not being subtle about it and it's important i think at each lever so i was happy to see what wes moore was doing this weekend to like like stop and say like this is no like we're gonna push back on this now you know because otherwise it just becomes a creep where he is able to do more and more. These cities have an ability to do, although LA had mixed ability to do it. Now, DC is a unique...

entity because it's also a federal center. And they don't have states' rights. There's no voting. Our representative happens to be out of it, actually, so you're not hearing from her. It's a unique situation here in the other states.

It's going to be harder to try this, to try these numbers. But how do you, why aren't there more? crackdowns, especially these visual images of either people, you know, being taken off the street, like a moped and things like that, or everyone has a story here. People are not... I don't quite know what to do, right? What do you do? You go yell at these people? Okay, that doesn't really have an effect. What is the response besides, in cities, I could see them pushing back on Trump. but not DC.

Yeah, no, I look at a, the response from democratic leaders is that they have to say no and not, we're going to work with you on this, right? Like, and that was, I mean, you know, Bowser did, again, the DC thing is a little bit different. It's a little bit complicated, but when you get to these other cities, you know, say no, and they have to have showdowns.

over states' rights. I mean, like this was, like J.D. Vance was on the shows over the weekend where he was talking about how this question of the red state National Guards coming to D.C. and how he's like, well, this is our system. We have states' rights. If the Republican governors want to send us troops to suck up to Trump, then... like oh well we'll just do that but that's not how it works and there's another blue states and even

purple states that have democratic governors, right? You notice Philly isn't on the list, Josh Shapiro is there, Detroit, Gretchen Whitmer, like what eventually, you know, you get a showdown in these places. But I think that's important. I think it's important. I think that the protesting is important in itself. it's important for people to call their leaders look

I think a lot of people feel like, oh, the pushback has been limp. And I get that. I feel that way as well. There are things I wish people were doing more of. But a part of that, I think, is because people feel like the pushback is not... with is not with point because trump has total power in dc and the solar power of congress but i point to this the immigration thing in el salvador as like a prime example of like how like pushing back on legal political and action in the streets

grounds can slow them down i mean like their initial plan was to send lots of people to that el salvador prison but they initially sent the three planes there was immediately pushback political legal people in the streets and uh you know the Courts slowed them down. And what ended up happening? About a couple weeks ago now, the Venezuelans that they had sent there got sent back to Venezuela. No more planes have gone to El Salvador. No more people have been sent there.

And like that is an example of resisting the administration that isn't maybe that satisfactory because it's not like a win for Democrats. That's going to try everything. Yeah, but it slowed them down on that vertical. You got to do the same thing across all these other... The slowdown. The idea of slowdown. You've heard about the white ladies putting Mexican flags on their cars to get ice to stop them. I have not seen that. I like that.

People are making fun of us like, why? It's wasting their time. And then the white ladies can chat away with them for the longest time. And like that's six hours. Like I could talk to a nice person for six hours and be difficult, but not arrestably difficult. You know what I mean? Like kind of why? are you doing this? What's happening? What's your name? How you doing? Like,

irritating in the way only white ladies can do it. Well, you should irritate the local politicians. So here in Louisiana, I live in New Orleans now, and so they sent 135 National Guard troops to D.C. to guard the Shake Shack or whatever.

I'm like, this is ridiculous. Even Republicans in Louisiana should be calling their legislators and the governor and annoying them about this thing. Like, these are people with lives. Like, these are 135 people that have real jobs, that have families, they're in back to school. They've been sent away from their kids to fucking sit outside the Georgetown cupcake. It's ridiculous. It's preposterous. And shining light on how ridiculous it is is an important end in itself.

Is there any pluses for the Trump administration doing this, like crime is bad? Because people from outside cities all think crime is bad. The whole San Francisco narrative was so bullshit. There was problems. They're starting to really fix them. The city is very vibrant now. It's just the cycle, right? The COVID cycle, the people moving out, et cetera, et cetera. And the more...

But, you know, they're aiming at homeless people, which is really interesting here in D.C. and elsewhere, as if that's really the actual problem. I think it helps. I think that...

You know, there are people like Matt Iglesias expresses this view that's like bad for Democrats anytime to be talking about crime and immigration because of crime and immigration are in the news. That's good for Trump because those are issues that are good for Trump. And I take that point, right? Like, I think that you have to be clear eyed about how the fact. that there is a...

you know, uh, political benefit to what they're doing. They're good at picking enemies. You know, kill Margarita Garcia is not that particularly sympathetic as a person, right? Like John Bolton is in particular as a person in different ways, but, but I think that like finding the most extreme.

examples and winning the fight on those grounds is better than ignoring it if you're a Democrat and moving on. And I mean, this happened in the first term on child separation. His numbers tanked on it and they had to backtrack on it.

worthwhile immigration fight is fighting over like border security worthwhile like no probably not like similarly on crime like uh is pushing back on some of what they're doing on crime and cleaning up cities it's not my cup of tea is pushing back on it worthwhile maybe not politically

activists or individuals can. But the Democrats should push back on masked guys jumping out of unmarked cars and tackling DoorDash drivers. Nobody's for that. And, you know, I was listening over the weekend. Do you know Tim Dillon? He's like a comedian. Yeah. And Joe Rogan. Tim Dillon show over the weekend. And he's like, if you're a libertarian minded Republican, don't tread on me Republican guy.

You can win those guys over with this. Like he's looking at this. He's going this. What Trump is doing is everything Alex Jones warned about is what he was saying. It's like, you know, it's it's we're giving Palantir our information. We've got masks. You know, we got we're militarizing the streets. We've got masks.

You know, going after people without due process. Like, this is a big government security state. You know, if framed correctly, I think Democrats could use it right. Yeah. As you know, every accusation is a confession with these people.

administration, let's move on to another thing they're grappling with. The Trump administration has released transcripts and audio from the DOJ's recent interview with Jelaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's longtime associates and convicted sexual offender, sex offender. In an interview, Maxwell, who is seeking a pardon, praised Donald Trump. What a surprise. And also downplayed his involvement in Epstein's activities. What a surprise. Let's listen to what this heinous bitch said.

I never saw the president in any type of massage setting. I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The president was never inappropriate with anybody. In the times that I was with him, he was a gentleman in all respects.

So said the pedophile. Maxwell also denied the existence of a client list and dismissed the number of Epstein's theories and allegations. Also rather kind to Epstein. He can rot in hell. She did, however, say she doesn't believe Epstein died by suicide in prison. Honestly, why are we listening to this? I'm sorry, she's a heinous bitch. Why are we listening to her? Will it appease the MAGA folks?

What do you make of the timing? The DOJ also gave Congress thousands of Epstein documents, though Democrats are pointing out the majority of the documents were already public. They're trying to sort of... slow roll the thing, a posthumous, end quote, unsparing memoir by Epstein accuser Virginie Gaffray, who died by suicide in April's coming out in this fall. And also some of the victims are now and fucking had it with this.

Again, HB, heinous bitch. No need to apologize for saying heinous bitch. We can say that again now is what I heard after the election, that those words are allowed again. Yeah, okay, good. I can say whatever I want about her. So anyway. You know, I'm hoping Elizabeth Holmes like smacks her a little bit. They're in the same prison, I guess. Talk a little bit about this and where it's going. I still think it's got a lot of legs, this story. I don't know. I feel like it does.

I do laugh at hearing her call Trump. He was a gentleman in every respect. Like, even Trump's friends don't think he's a gentleman. Like, even Trump wouldn't describe himself as a gentleman, I don't think. Right, exactly. And it's just so, you know, fucking preposterous. No, she's awful.

It's, like, important to just say that, like, and she was involved in the sex crimes. That's correct. I've seen some of these reports. Like, she was there in the room when it was actually happening. She was participating in it. Yeah. And she was bullying and intimidating these women. They were in a quasi-sex.

slavery with him, essentially saying where she was, you know, saying, oh, you know, you're not going to get, you know, there would be financial pressure she'd put over them or access or threats. So, and she is as bad as they get and a liar and totally unruly. reliable um in all these cases her only effort here is to get a part and I don't I don't think anything really comes out of this um I think it's um

It maybe should be used against Trump politically. The fact that she's been sent to a club fed as the only sex offender in the entire prison system in such a nice prison with Elizabeth Holmes. And so I think there's maybe some political... juice there not a ton but there's something i think that to me the potential story here is that um is it like there is an actual traditional cover-up right like a lot of trump's other

behavior is like very is sui generis like it's just trump like he's doing stuff that doesn't really happen before it's different people like his crypto scheme it's like what you know like there's not there's not a history of this type of scandal you know for folks to like you know um

connect to. That's not the case here. This is just a straight cover-up that many other politicians have done. They have a list of all the times Trump has mentioned in these files. They've admitted it. They said there's a Microsoft Share file with the FBI agents that went through and marked his name. So this exists somewhere. You know, a file.

of where Trump is in there, and they don't want to release it, and they're not going to. They're going to cover it up to protect the boss. That's just a straight cover-up story. And I think that I asked Hakeem Jeffries about this when he was on the pod the other week, and I was like, so will you have a special committee on this if you get...

back into the leadership. And he kind of said yes, like he wouldn't commit to exactly to a special committee, but he said, we will be investigating this. And I think they can now then just do a again, a straight old school cover-up investigation. They can subpoena the FBI agents that were involved in this, what Bondi did, what she briefed Trump on, and who knows where that could lead.

The example I always use of this is all those Benghazi oversight hearings. In this weird convoluted way, the Benghazi hearing led to the Hillary email server. you know and um and oh so you don't exactly know what will come from oversight and so i think if the democrats are willing to actually do it um if they will first if they win in the midterms and then if they're actually to do it like this is a story that we'll be talking about in august of 2020.

Yeah, they're trying to push it down, and they didn't push down very easily. I don't think this guy continues to resurface, Epstein. He's like the corpse that wouldn't be buried, essentially. You know, and he keeps showing up in some fashion. I think the Jelaine Maxwell, I know a lot of them are saying Trump is clean, like Jim Jordan, who.

who's good at defending pedophiles and covering up for them, you know, would say he's not clean by any stretch of the imagination, like at all, because this lady says it. Not so. I just, one photograph, one, another accuser. that's all it's going to take to really revive this because it really does animate the right in ways that it didn't animate the left by the way it doesn't animate liberals this story yeah and i think that was because the right got animated by it

The pretense was kind of like this concern about child sex trafficking. And there are some, obviously there are people on the right who are genuinely concerned about child predation. And I think that why it's sort of.

like you know tickled their um you know the lizard part of their brain was the the death side it was like the conspiracy side of it is like oh was there a deep state effort to protect whoever the clintons you know you name it like whoever And that like plot side of it is what like...

elevated the story from what would have been a very like serious no doubt like real story with like real victims and all that to something that like like had this life of its own on the right um and and i think that like for that same reason now like there's a there's a

not really a conspiracy, but a cover-up that I think will animate the left that kind of gets lopped on to the more straightforward story about what they were doing to these young girls. Right. That's a really good point. That will be the thing. There are attempts at slow rolling it in.

They still fight among each other with Laura Loomer still calling Pam Boddy blondie, et cetera. I suspect this is still going to keep going with this guy. OK, Tim, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Trump makes a deal with Intel.

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Tim, we're back. The U.S. government is taking a 10% stake in intel, with Trump calling it a, quote, great deal for America and a great deal for intel. Under the agreement, $8.9 billion in unpaid CHIP Act grants will be converted into equity, making the government intel.

largest shareholder, but without board seats or governance rights. It's a turnaround from a few weeks ago when Trump was calling for Intel's CEO to resign over ties to China. Intel move also comes on the heels of NVIDIA and AMD agreeing to hand over 15% of their China. China chip sale revenues to the government. Not clear whether they should be selling chips to China. There's also that, quote, golden share in U.S. steel.

Senator Rand Paul called the Intel deal a step towards socialism. I, oddly enough, agreed with Senator Rand Paul. Industrial policy is not my favorite thing, even the Washington Post and also the Wall Street Journal. But the Washington Post editorial board came out against this saying the United States should not be trying to beat China by becoming China. You know, AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders wish they could have this much control over companies, right? Bernie endorsed it, actually.

Yeah, yeah, of course. And Mark Cuban said it's just a wealth tax in a different way, right? They're taking money. I, you know, as part of it, I'm like, I thought the government should have not. done the giveaways to car companies or banks. I thought they should have taken a piece of Tesla and then sold it back and made money on it for the U.S. There's nothing wrong with it, but industrial policy in general is always a bad idea in a capitalist.

vibrant economy um thoughts about this and how it how it shakes out i'm curious to your thoughts in the tech side i'll just give because this is like also a little bit outside my wheelhouse but my political obviously there is the cheap but true political observation of the you know mega socialism like it's okay if trump doesn't we're going to panic about the five city-run grocery stores in new york but we're going to let the government take over a 10 stake in a major company you know so there's

like the obvious hypocrisy on its... face there um and uh you know it's kind of funny i think back to my like heyday as a republican when like one of like back like 10 15 years ago there was this big controversy on the right over the exim bank it's like a federal bank providing loans that i how that was

oh, government begging winners and losers and crony capitalism. And like, here we are, like literally taking a stake in the company now. So, I mean, I think that is outrageous. The thing that worries me about it more than the actual, than.

what's happening with intel is like it is another lever for him to use power to bully kind of who knows right other people right and so whether that be intel customers competitors right now like so it's like well we aren't going to take a stake we're not going to take a we're not or excuse me we're not going to have a governing responsibility in the company but the government now still has an interest and

this doing well. And Trump does. Trump has an emotional interest. He's posting about how the stock's up and how that's good. And so like the downstream effects of that is something that is not like all the way to China, but, but has some of that.

flavor, where like the government can start to intimidate certain other companies. And decide which are the national winners, right? Like, but except you don't want the government in your business, essentially. And one of the issues is Intel's been suffering for years and years, lack of innovation. management, et cetera, you know, for a very long time. It used to be the dominant chip maker. And then just got...

just fell by the wayside. So there is an argument you made for, like, helping U.S. companies in the chip area, largely for national security. Well, there's the CHIPS Act that was going to do that. Yes, exactly. But the issue is, it's not going to make them more innovative by having the government investment. is just going to prop them up.

Right. And the problems with Intel run a lot deeper that maybe they should go out of business. Maybe they should restructure. Maybe they should. We shouldn't have the government deciding to keep them on on on life support. Right. It's not life support. It's just been it's been. for many CEOs for a long time. And so, you know, the natural thing is let it die and then something else comes up. The problem is we are chipped.

manufacturers are weaker and they're stronger in Taiwan and China and elsewhere. And so just the fact that governments make choices like this, they shouldn't. What they should do is provide research money for all kinds of things. encouragement and innovative grants to help people start businesses of all kinds. Those are fine by me. I'm fine with manufacturing money, right? Like we want to make sure that they have, you know, loan guarantees to build plants. So, you know, if...

Like there's a reason interest rates are high right now. So like it's in the national interest that we're building chip plants. Companies don't want to take the risks. The government backstops. It's not like my ideal free market system, but that's like a defensible thing for the government. On this particular market. On this particular market, yeah.

But it's just a hop, skip and jump to other markets, right? Like, let's own this. Let's own that. Well, they said that Kevin Hassett is on CNBC this morning saying now we might start to take chips and stakes in other companies. And again, this is the bullying part. This is the authoritarian part where it's like, oh, if you're another company. that took money from the CHIPS Act or from the IRA.

Maybe those were good decisions. Maybe they're bad decisions. I think that there was probably a bunch of wasted money in both of those bills, by the way. But like the companies then at that point that made that decision should not now be worried that, oh, I can't do anything, say anything that might upset.

Trump, I can't go on TV and have, you know, grandpa watching his stories see that I'm critical of some policy or else they might try to take over a stake in the company. Yeah, it's very meddlesome in a way that's not anti-capitalist. I can see them in their room. I can see this, especially that.

dumbass Howard Lutnick. We should have gotten a piece of Tesla. We should have gotten a piece of this. But Howard Lutnick is not a bad business person. Trump is arguably one of the worst. Are you sure he's not a bad business person? He seems very stupid.

Listen, he was sort of the discount guy on Wall Street. When you talk to Wall Street people, he's like, he built a big business, but what an idiot. I think that's usually what you, but it was like a business nobody wanted. They were like, oh, that guy's business.

Sort of like Crazy Eddie. Like, remember Crazy Eddie a long time ago? You know, of course, it went bankrupt, that business. I think people don't love Howard Letnick on Wall Street. They don't have much respect for him. That said, Trump has... He actually has built a business that has lasted. And Trump, of course, has run the... This is the idea of real estate dealers, real estate people running the government. Like, ah, what can I get?

What can I get? Like, what's the vig? And so it feels mobstery. It feels like, you know, corrupt. It feels... meddles them and it creates, you know, the fact that Tim Cook has to give a gold statue to Trump is a bad thing. Even if he's doing it for shareholders, it means we live in a banana republic. That's what it means. And so it's never good.

and the whole thing is i laugh at like how those guys are all like um and i shared some of the critiques of woke identity politics and and big uh you know in corporate america but it was funny that it was like cook kind of gave him like a woke right statue. Like he felt, it felt important for him to say in the presentation, it was like, this was made by a, this was made by a MAGA Republican veteran. You can imagine the inverse where Tim Cook comes into Kamala and is like,

Like, here's a statue made by an indigenous bisexual. We felt like we needed to do that. They felt like he had to do the whole identity right politics stuff, too. The whole thing was very gross. Unnatural acts. People who should be running their companies do unnatural acts. And it is bad for shareholders in the end. It's not even if they're doing it to help shareholders so they don't get a bigger tariff.

It's an unnatural act, Tim. Stop doing unnatural acts. Can I ask you one nationalization thing? Because, you know, I'm a passionate capitalist. But there's one moment, there's been one issue kind of in this realm that... has tickled my socialist pickle, which was the idea that maybe we need to nationalize SpaceX.

Is that sort of related to this? That's like a kind of a different conversation where that is in the national security interest? Maybe. They should be working hand in glove. I mean, I think the issue is NASA sort of got out of control in terms of...

bureaucratic and not innovative. The only thing is when you're a government agency, you can't make mistakes the way SpaceX can. And the minute you nationalize it, it can't blow up rockets. And as much as it seems like a failure to blow up rockets, the way you get to places or get to better... innovation is by taking risks. And if you're a government agency, you cannot take risks by the definition of a government agency.

I see that they have to be working very closely. This is the kind of close relationships. It's not really a free market, though. You can't have unlimited companies in space. It's kind of like how NBA team ownership is not a real free market. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't. I feel like they have brought the cost down because they're not a government. They've done well, no doubt, but I don't know. There's no interest in the government to making things cheaper. Yeah.

Crazy Elon having that much control over the policies. He does. That's one of the worries. Of course, I suspect that's what they're worried about. It's like a bond bill and essentially running critical infrastructure. Same thing with chips. We have to have a real chip policy and this ain't it.

Speaking of something that seems troubling, FBI agents raided the home and office of former Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton on Friday. The Trump critic is a subject of national security investigation and search of classified records. Vice President J.D. Vance says the raid def.

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with Bolton's criticism of Trump, which means it does. It rather stems from a, quote, broad concern about Ambassador Bolton. You know, the Wall Street Journal's against this. Everyone's against this. I think what they're doing is what they thought was done to them. So if they didn't like it done to them, why are they doing it to others? Very retribution, revenge. She just threatened Christy, I think.

today or yesterday starting to jail chris christie too yeah the wall street journal editorial board has kind of cracked me up um since they've been very trump friendly they talked about how one of the concerns of him coming back was that he'd run vendettas and uh they wrote quote it's

out to be worse than we imagined. It's like, no, you don't say. Not me, actually. It's going quite bright just about exactly how we told you it was going to go, not any worse. The Bolton thing, I just think it's important to say this because it's obviously preposterous. that this is not a political attack, but if you just replace John Bolton with like...

Mark Meadows or Corey Lewis. I imagine it was somebody from the Trump first term that wrote a book that who is still in good graces with Trump and the accusations that there were classified materials in that book that was written five years ago. There's no imaginable world in which...

the FBI is raiding the home of a Trump 1.0 cabinet member who is still an ally, right? Like you just, nobody could imagine that if there were a legitimate concern that he had some classified materials they shouldn't have, like there's a process for this sort of thing. fbi calls doj's lawyers call their lawyers you set up a meeting right like all you know so this is this was purely to

Either hassle or intimidate. Feels like prosecutorial overreach, right? That's just the thing that Trump complained about. And it does, I think it brings up what Trump did. Like again, like you did it. Well, the Trump example, it's important to just explain the differences. Like in the Mar-a-Lago raid, which...

I would listen to the idea that maybe that could have been handled in a less aggressive way. But like, it's not comparable to the Bolton situation. Like the Mar-a-Lago-Raid, the archivist or whatever, like, you know, said that Trump. you know, brought some materials that, you know, are the property of the United States. They shouldn't have, you know, they asked for a meeting.

denied. So they provided a list of what the materials were. Trump lied and said that it wasn't there. They tried to move some of the materials to a different place. So Trump was obstructing the effort to do this in like the good faith way that this is.

generally done. And that's why the raid happened. Like, that was not the case with John Bolton. They just showed up at his house, I think because the statute of limitations, I suspect, is running out on the stuff from the first term, which will be five years now. And they did so just to intimidate him. Pan Vandi puts out a tweet about it.

I don't have it in front of me, but something like our national security comes first. It's like nobody thinks that America's security was a threat because whatever John Bolton has in his house. um and you know and and and i think that it ties kind of the intel thing like the thing that worries me about everything is eventually

And it ties to the Bill Maher thing at the top. Like, slowly but surely, people just decide it's not worth the hassle, right? Like, you get into authoritarianism not through violent coup necessary, but by slow burn towards everyone deciding, you know, I'm going to go bring him a trophy to keep him. happy i'm not going to say anything wrong because i don't want the fbi to come after me and you know eventually consolidate power and that's closer to like what you've seen in hungary and other places

Yeah. Well-known centers of innovation. Hungary. Exactly. The economy is really, really thriving in Hungary and Turkey. We want the Turkey model for our country. The Turkey model. Anyway, we'll see what happens with this. I suspect it will.

Peter out. They have such little follow-through, but they do cause damage. What they do, they're like toddlers. They come in, cause damage, and little follow-through. All right, Tim, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Cracker Barrel makes an enemy of the right. Support for Pivot comes from Groons.

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Tim, we're back with more news. Please make sure you're seated for this next emotional topic, Cracker Barrel's logo change. The chain has removed the barrel and the man from its logo and conservatives are horrified. Change is hard, conservatives. Cracker Barrel stock was down. 12% in the last five days at the time of taping.

Like, I haven't been in a cracker pill because they're so anti-gay, right? That's what I remember. No, they did a—obviously, you don't remember their effort to appeal to care a couple years ago. They did a rainbow rocking chair during Pride Month a couple years ago. Oh, whatever. You know, this is fucking ridiculous. This is like, it's just a logo change. And the old man seems like old, like for they want young people to come. That's my presumption is they've got too many fucking old people.

in the place and they need a new they need a new demo it makes sense from again meddling in the business like if they want to get rid of the old man they should get rid of the old man and the fact that they're all horrified like they're so They're so censorious the right when they accuse others of being censorious. And, you know, they'll either live or die by the stock going down and maybe they'll put the man back or whatever. But it's just, I don't.

I've got to take a contrary view to you on this one. Are you ready to fight over Cracker Barrel? The new logo is awful. When's the last time you went? Oh, it's an ugly logo. Correct. Yeah, I haven't been in years. Every once in a while I go, I think, on the drive from D.C. to the beach. There's a Cracker Barrel somewhere. That was many years ago now. So I haven't been in a while. So I don't actually have any personal stake or care about this. But I do just as an objective.

observer of the world the new logo is awful the picture that they put out of the new inside of the cracker barrel which is more minimalist or whatever is also awful and it is part of a broader corporate trend where every logo has to be minimalist now and every door needs to have clean lines and and we get we need we need diversity of views you know you need diversity of experiences like the human spirit

you know, yearns for different types of, you know, we don't all want Scandinavian clean lines. So some places call for Scandinavian. No, but I think they probably realize most of their clients are about to die. You think new people are going to come in though because they want to make it look more like Applebee's? I don't think.

Like the millennials I know are like, I'm excited now that we're changing it from the old man, old Southern view to a more of a modern Applebee's aesthetic. I think at some point you have to change. It's like, but again, this is again, it's up to the company if they want to do this and they'll either live.

die by it right that's my whole thing i agree with that i suspect they're looking at the numbers and they're like all the old people we don't have any young they probably know exactly who's coming into their restaurants and young people are not coming into the cracker barrel they're just not and

You know, the name itself would probably be changed, Cracker Barrel. Like, who, what is a Cracker Barrel? Honky Barrel. Honky Barrel. Um, you know, I kind of like what they're doing at Hooters. They're going, though, you'd be surprised. What are they doing at Hooters? I know nothing about this. They're going back to cheesy and booby and like...

wings. I'm vaguely offended by Hooters. I don't care. If people want to go to those stupid places and they pay those people enough, I don't know what to say. I think it's gross, but... Whatever, people, if you want to go to that. By the way, all the Hooters waitresses, in my experience, have been fantastic people. And they know the whole fucking deal with the guys leering their breasts, which is like their toddlers looking at them.

There was a great story of a gay guy, who was it, who talked about going to Hooters with his dad. His Twitter name is Peter Twinklage. Yeah, great story of going to Hooters and the Hooter waitress helping this guy out. And she knew he was gay, right? The father didn't. Of course, the father did, because that's why he dragged his sorry ass there. But, you know, I kind of like that they're going back to it, because I thought...

Hooters just be Hooters. And if they do a nice job of it and the wings are good, I'm fine with it. I just think this is a company much like, oh, there's probably a bunch of them facing real secular change in their... So they must have studied this. And the people that are being noisy are all the old folk. I guess. I don't. Sometimes, though, you can overstudy stuff. It's like I feel this way about political ads where it's like.

you know i'll be in a meeting where you know where a super pack will be like we decided to do this ad because we tested it and i'm like Most of these tests are so dumb. It's people that are like playing video games or something and then they show the ad during the commercial break and then you have to say whether you like it or not. And it's like people don't know them themselves. We're trusting this. Like they're just trying to get through the ad. Like a lot of these.

of these you know corporate testing things is a lot of hooey-fooey um can i just kind of give you one admission since you've admitted the hooters uh you know come clean on your support for original hooters the cracker barrel thing for me is tied to the new oval office design

And I like the new office design, just like I like the old Cracker Barrel, because I think more is more. I don't, I don't, I don't, this whole like minimalist wasp Northeast thing. Oh, that was really minimalist. Pro Hooters, pro.

Pro-Liberace Oval Office, pro-original Cracker Barrel. That's where I'm landing. Oh, well, who's not pro-Liberace? Come on. Well, the Oval Office has a Liberace aesthetic now, I think. Oh, it does. Which I like. But it's okay. As a gay man. See, I don't. I think I didn't like... When I saw the comparison, I was like, look how...

awful i'm like the first one was kind of dull like the biden one yeah grab right and you know i like a like listen showgirls is about to have its 50th anniversary or whatever and i'm up for anything like that I like excess. It's too much over here. Now there's way too much fucking gold. Like, gold is best, if you ever saw that Apple thing. So I think it's too much. There should be pomp and circumstance, but there's way too much.

of that. It's a little Oudan Kuse. It's a little much. It wouldn't be my preferred aesthetic, but it is definitely an upgrade when you look at the comparisons. The grayskin. What else would you put in there? What would your Oval Office look like? That's not really in the cards, I don't think. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, kind of like the birdcage. I don't know. Like gay. Yeah, well, gay. Yeah, it combined all of my conflicts.

interests, you know? We might have a Reagan portrait, but also a lot of gay stuff that would live in conflict together. Maybe just Nancy. You know who I'd design? You know Ken Falk? He's a San Francisco designer. My husband loves Ken Falk. Yeah, everything he does is just a little louche, but I love it. Like, you know, it's just a little bit too much velvet and stuff like that. There's an occasional dead animal on the wall. I kind of love it. I love it. I also like the Nancy Meyers aesthetic.

of a nice one. Do you know the director? Those houses that Diane Keaton always lives in? Those are nice. Maybe don't. I don't know. That's not really for me. That might be a little suburban. I'm kind of triggered by my suburban upbringing. I don't want anything like the 90s suburban Tuscan aesthetic. Anything like that is that I have a natural physical revulsion to.

I think I would do more funny stuff, a little more color. I like a lot of color. Same. Anyway, I think they should have kept the barrel, gotten rid of the old man.

The barrel needs to be there, and there should be crackers. All right, last thing. Elon Musk's ex has reached a tentative agreement to settle a lawsuit filed by former Twitter employees who say they are owed $500 million in severance. Musk fired around 6,000 employees after a quarter. In other Musk news, he also asked Mark Zuckerberg to help him finance a $97 billion takeover OpenAI in early 2025, according to court filings. In a case between Musk and OpenAI, obviously didn't happen.

thank God, but Mark sees it coming. Thank God, I guess. Isn't this kind of like an Iran-Iraq war situation? Who are you rooting for in Altman versus Musk versus Zuckerberg? The bullets is what Scott always says. You're rooting for the bullets. You know, I know a little bit about this payment, and I'll just say really briefly, I've met with a lot of the people who they owe money to. And look, if you want to fire people, Elon, that's fine. That's your business. But pay them what they're owed.

That's it. It just makes you like an asshole not to pay them their severance. Even if you don't like what they did before, that was the agreement they were taking over. As to his open AI thing, just stop. You know, Sam Altman. is not interested in you. So stop bothering that company. You walked yourself out of there like an idiot when you were there from the beginning because of your ego and your need for control. You don't have it.

just try to make a good company on your own that's my feeling i don't i don't have any thoughts on the floor following so i agree with everything you said um While we're admitting to bad opinions that we have about aesthetics, I also kind of like the Zuckerberg fuckboy rebrand. I think that that's been good for him. So I support that. Is he a fuckboy? Kind of. I mean, the gold chain. Would you fuck him? And the, what are the kids going, the lettuce?

Yeah. Okay. Would you go out with him? Do you think he's attractive? Not really for me. No, I don't think so. I guess I had to pick between him and Altman. I probably originally would have said Sam Altman, but I don't know. Sam's recent interviews are pretty creepy. He's starting to move into the uncanny valley for me a little bit.

Oh, interesting. How so? Tell me. Explain. I don't know. I get him in my TikTok a lot. I guess it's kind of how you're consuming me. He does all these podcast interviews where he's talking about what we want for each of our open AI. Did you see his Theo Vaughn interview? And his projections about what is coming... and how people are just going to have to get used to a world where they're like robot humans walking around on the street everywhere and where a lot of people's real friends are.

computer friends. The whole thing is getting a little creepy for me. And he seems to kind of be leaning into that. I just think I'm misaligned with him for what I would like to see an AI. future to look like. Well, it's just one man's opinion, for one. Well, it's an important man's opinion, kind of.

Open AIs have come and gone. Like, I don't mean to be, but like, remember Yahoo was huge and then it wasn't. Like these things, and they are definitely in a more precarious position. They're either Netscape or they're Google, right? That said, Google didn't run the show.

on everything eventually and even they struggled at various times i feel like look he wants to he's sort of styling himself like steve jobs so he's trying to say important controversial things and so nobody is steve jobs that everyone's trying to grab that mantle and there will be not another one like that and so

That's what you're hearing. What's your alarm level and all that stuff on these guys, these egomaniacs deciding what our future is going to look like? We've already seen what happened. So we're going to see this. I think the government in this case needs to be much more involved with guidance, guardrails, and regulations, as you know. I don't like a small group of people.

not diverse in any way, making decisions for the rest of us. That's all. Just like I didn't, you know, as much as I like train daddy on, on the Gilded Age. They decided where the roads went. They decided where the things went. And our whole country has to live in the reality they create. And I'm not so pleased with that either. Although I like Drain Daddy quite a bit.

oddly enough i don't have any takes on train daddy i'll learn about it all right you need to watch the gilded age because all the gays love train daddy just so you know He's really great. Speaking of which, it cracks me up with Gavin Newsom every time that Jesse Waters calls him daddy.

He's like, I'm not interested. His use of like gay taunts is so, I'm not, everyone's like, aren't you offended? I'm like, no, I love them. I don't know about how you feel. I like a gay taunt. I like a gay ton too. The only time I get offended on this thing is sometimes I feel like...

And maybe it's just because as a gay former Republican, I get a lot of incoming on this. Sometimes I feel like the liberals in my life are like way too excited to make like gay slurs about Lindsey Graham and like the MAGA gays. And I like a little.

joke about lady g i'm fine with that but sometimes it's like the tone where like i kind of feel like you're just you've just been very you've just had this pent-up desire to make homophobic jokes and now you feel like you can because lindsey graham is the target and and and it comes out

a little too enthusiastic for my taste, I guess. I would agree. I'm a hundred percent in your time. I'm talking about more like when they actively go out of their way to like to slap back at it. But I agree with you. I just look. Whatever journey Lindsey Graham is on, it's his journey. It is hypocritical, obviously. But when has that not happened? Do you remember during the Reagan administration? Oh my God, after the administration.

They were crawling with gays and they were doing anti-gay things. But the stakes with AIDS were so massive at the time, it seemed like. They are massive now, too. Their attacks on gay marriage right now are really quite disturbing. Are you worried about that?

I don't know. I keep telling people I think that the trans, I am acutely worried if I'm transgender, if I'm a migrant, and I think those are very acute crises right now, and we should really focus on them. The gay marriage thing, I kind of, I just would be... Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know. I think that there are people that are very intent on

still angry about gay marriage. And they just sit there and they seethe and they work and they work and they work to overturn it. That's right. I think it's a losing fight for them. The abortion thing, I think a lot on the left thought the abortion thing would be a losing fight for them. And they compare. the the two issues and they kind of conflate them and i just i think for a variety of reasons like

Gay marriage is like a 70% issue in the country, and I think it would be a pretty big loser. Well, it hasn't stopped them on a lot of things, right? Gun control. I think there is a group of dedicated anti-gay people that have never, I've always thought they've never gone away. And it was like, now we... I'm like, have we, you know, I think you should be vigilant with these people. I think they would very much like to.

do a lot of things to women and gay people that are really disturbing and set them back. And they articulate it now, and you see it, even the things Vance pushes. It's noteworthy, the change in how... unbridled they are now like they feel totally now unshackled to say their real feelings about gay people like there was a period of time where i think people were like this is there'll be backlash against me or this isn't

And you're not seeing that anymore. And I think that's revealing. In some way, I think it's bad. I worry about it for younger. LGBT people. But I also, in some ways, I think it's nice for it to be revealing that we can see the score a little bit. See, I've always thought they were like this. I never thought they were friendly to us for a minute. And by the way, they are committed.

overturning marriage, some of those people. And guess what? We're committed not to. So that's the part that I think you'll see how that's going to go trying to take my marriage away from me. You know what I mean? Come and take it. Okay, Tim, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Support for the show comes from Mercury. What if banking did more?

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OK, Tim, let's hear some wins and fails. I will go first. I think it's sort of a fail. This Trump's cankle thing. I know people are like, it's really. odd. I have to say, Alex Jones is concerned about Trump's health. He warned last week at the current trajectory, Trump is going to have some sort of collapse in the next 12 months. Thank you, Dr. Jones. You terrible, heinous, speaking of heinous bitches.

Trump's hands are also looking questionable with all those odd smears of makeup. He had a weird walking thing. The age is, as I have said, the cognitive decline and the age decline is real. And he, let me tell you, he's a lively old man, that's for sure. He's the guy in the nursing home that's just real lively, but still going to keel over at any moment, could keel over at any moment. I think that's, I think they, I'm not sure why they aren't controlling this, especially with the makeup.

and everything else, largely because he's probably very vain and everything else. But he's obviously aged rather significantly in so many ways, and I think it's taking its toll on him. It feels like he's rotting. It feels like when Voldemort was starting to rot. like when he wasn't getting enough dead people.

We can't see his real face is something that's true. Now, the leader will not show us what he really looks like because it's, you know, he's so fragile now. He looks like he was on Ozempic, but now he looks...

again i'm like something's going on with his health i think i don't think that's a win or a fail i just feel like just one dimension i don't think i just want to mention it because i think people are like oh let's not mention i'm like no no he looks if we're gonna like we should have mentioned more things about biden and scott and i did and gotten a lot of crap this he looks

There's something going on. The cankles are noteworthy. And if the cankles are as wide as Alex Jones's neck, you know that there's something concerning there. Remember when they attacked Hillary Clinton's cankles? I'm just saying. I don't recall that. I hope that wasn't me. for the gander no it wasn't you it's good for the goose um and my

My win is the fantastic, once again, we have the new version of Wicked coming and it's only in three months. And I think their social media campaign is fantastic. And they've done a great job. I love John Chu. He's going to be here in DC.

see next couple next week. I'm going to see them hopefully. I just am very excited about uh about that movie and i just i'm not gonna hide it i love it and i love the actors in it and i think they're doing a spectacular marketing job on it and i just love to watch uh people use social media in a really positive way and i like that and it gives me pleasure

Your win and fail. All right. Well, I wasn't planning this one, but if we're doing, you know, musical shout outs, I should win for, I have to give my Oasis guys a win. I mean, they reunited. Nobody said they could do it. They're coming to America now this week. They'll be back. Nobody ever thought they'd be back. Explain why this is a big deal.

It was the brothers, Noel and Liam Gallagher. They were brothers. They were very C-word in the British sense. I still won't say that in your presence, Cara, but like kind of Englishmen who drank a lot and fought together. And obviously folks will know Wonderwall or Champagne.

Supernova, some of their famous songs. And so they've been broken up for 16 years. They spent most of the decade and a half shit talking each other in the press. And the idea was like, they never would get back together. They're back together. I went to one of their shows in Manchester.

in their reunion shows. Was it good? Are they good or are they sad? It was biblical. It was unbelievable. It was amazing. He sounds amazing. I think he must have quit smoking or got a vocal coach. Sometimes you'll go to see the aging rock stars. I hate to, I went to see Pearl Jam at Jazz Fest, and it's like, ugh. You know, you can just tell. Sometimes, you know. The last Madonna concert, that's how I felt. It was rough. Yeah, so.

Not the case with Liam. He sounds amazing. They sound amazing. Everyone was so excited because people who are into Aces are really into it. Like the crowd around me knew every word. It was wonderful. So that was a win. The one that I planned on doing was on a more serious level. I was going to give Putin a win in their little summit in Alaska. Go for it. No, I don't really have much to add. It's just obvious now. When it had happened, there was like...

I think even some people were like, well, maybe Trump will get like maybe this thing will finally start to start to, you know, recede and Putin will, you know, get some deal out of it. Trump will, you know, give them some.

crypto or you know some parts of ukraine and trump and obviously at this point he was just totally used by putin in a way that's like really embarrassing at this point like the red carpet rollout um my fail is to like the um as somebody who prefers to send interest democrats shout out to my girl jerusalem dempsis started the argument a new kind of center left um

uh democratic outlet like i but just my advice to them is like their their treatment of zoran is so bad it's such a fail i do not understand what they're doing they're limiting their own power in the future of the party people are like very excited about

on. I've got issues with some of his policies. I had him on the pod and we argued about a couple of various things. And so you don't have to full throatedly say you endorse everything, but there's so much enthusiasm for him and you're going to get overthrown if you're Hakeem or Chuck Schumer. or any of these guys that aren't like they're they're people are gonna get pissed and overthrow you if you do not at least listen when i would

The scavenger hunt was brilliant. Again, he's very canny and a really interesting community. Someone's like, I went and I met a dozen people. Like, that was cool. Like, he really is appealing. I agree. I went out to dinner. I think I said that was the senator. I'm not going to say who it is. who was like bellyaching about him. I'm like, why don't you go watch what he's fucking doing before you did it? You also have no other choice. Who are you going to back? Eric Adams? You know?

Andrew Cuomo, like a sex pest to resign in disgrace. It's already gotten beaten by your own voters. The whole thing is really frustrating. Voters said this, and therefore, let's go with the vote. If young people, you complain and complain and complain about young people's engagement, they're engaged. you complain about that. Like, they really are a bunch of wimpuses. And they could say, I don't agree with him on this, but I kind of think he's cool.

that kind of thing. Or he's doing this thing well, or I'm happy, or how about even simply, I'm happy to endorse him just because the other options are so awful. That's okay. Like there are a lot of options besides, you know, just doing the hemming and hawing and. One well-known.

person we both know was saying, well, I wasn't asked to endorse. Why are people giving me a hard time for not endorsing? I'm like, you don't need to be asked. Just say what a cool, interesting politician he is. We don't agree on everything, but...

Pretty fucking cool. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere this week on On with Kara Swisher, I talked with graphic novelist Alison Bechdel and editorial cartoonist Anne Telnes. Let's listen to a clip of Anne explaining how she draws Trump.

My readers are the ones that always point out to me because I never notice I'm changing every time. They're like, okay, he's starting to look like a big mouth bass now. And I'm like... Okay, I can go with that. Or, you know, they say he's a pig. And I'm like, well, I like pigs. Don't tell me that, you know. So, you know, like I said, it's just really, I try to find out, I'm trying to show you what I think.

the insides of that person is more than the outside. Is there one particular body part that you think is besides the tie? Little hands. Tiny, tiny hands. Tiny. They were great. Cartoonists are doing God's work at this point. And Anne had left the Washington Post. Allison, of course, is such a talented cartoonist. She has a new book called Spent. Really interesting conversation about the visualization.

of our politics that goes way back in our history, Thomas Nast and her block and others. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Uh, Tim, thank you so much. You are, you are also doing God's work. I really appreciate it. You're always interesting and canny. And I like that you have different takes and, and I like that you like the gold oval office. That's what you'll be remembered for.

You and I would go to a Liberace show. I love Liberace. So I also like Don Ho. I'm in that zone. All right. I'll read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Androdot engineered this episode. Jim...

Mackel edited this video. Special thanks to Kate Gallagher. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine.

at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for our last breakdown of all things tech and business before Scott Free August ends. We've got a very big name, a very person who calls himself the most handsome. governor in the country. We'll see what that means. You'll find out. Thanks, Tim. Thanks, Carol.