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Join 167,000 companies like Paul Smith, Castor, Mixed Tiles, who choose Klaviyo for better custom relationships and faster growth. Grow with Klaviyo B2C CRM at klaviyo.com forward slash UK. Do you think we'll ever have sex? Do you think we'll ever have sex? The two of us? Yeah, just curious. I'm down as long as I don't have to be there. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher. This is a live broadcast. As we said, we were going to do it here. We're very excited. We always have a great time at South by Southwest. How is your South by Southwest, Scott? I love it here. Oh, you want to say hi, I'm Scott Gell. Wait, go ahead. I'm Scott Galloway. Okay. By the way, 9 a.m.
on Sunday of daylight savings. What the fuck are you thinking? I know, I know, I agree. It's like a dog whistle for Mormons or people with no life. Yes, it's true. Literally, this is a negative Ford licking indicator of your social options. What the fuck are you doing here? I have to be here. Why do they schedule us at 10? That's what I was thinking. Is like Doge in charge of this shit? What is going on?
Oh, but they have you and Senator Warren at the prime time at 4 p.m. Billionaires should not exist. Up next, Mark Cuban. Sorry, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Tax the rich! Somehow I became worth $11 million serving in Congress. And now it's her house. She has a house. Oh, yeah. It's her house. It is. That's right. No, she's $8 million. She's $8 million. Yeah. Yeah. That's not rich by these people's standards.
Okay, yeah. All right, okay. She doesn't trade stocks. Anyway, how is your South by Southwest? I love it here. I like the food. I like the people. What does a Texan German car enthusiast say? What? Audi. It's Sunday morning. It's Sunday morning. Have you been partying? You want something dirtier? Yeah, go ahead.
I come down here because my urologist is down here. Oh, here we go. And you get to my age, you get a drip. It takes a good, I don't know, three weeks to pee now. And so I go into my urologist, and he's like, Did you have sex recently? And I said, yeah, about five days ago. And he said, does she live near here? And I said, yeah. And he's like, well, you may want to get back. I think you're coming. Good morning. Good morning.
And yes, they do serve Bloody Marys at 7.30 at the proper hotel. Vegetables. Oh, God. I am jet-lagged. I am jet-lagged from coming back from Australia. Are you interviewing Peter Attia, Dr. Peter Attia? I am aware of him. Well, Peter Atzi and Andrew Huberman were like the poster children for... Yeah, I'm aware of them. You know, big handsome guys who like work out all the time. Yeah. They've declared war on alcohol. Yeah. I'm taking alcohol back. Yeah. Young people need to drink more. That is...
What is the bigger issue? The alcohol your liver can absolutely handle when you're between the ages of 18 and 40 or the fact that none of you are having sex and making connections. Drink more for God's sakes.
I think they're doing a lot more weed is what's happening. There's a lot more weed. Well, I wouldn't know about that. What do you mean by weed care? I'm just saying that's my impression from my children. Yeah, they're doing drugs. But the thing I don't like about those drugs is I don't think they're as social. Yeah. Right. You drink alcohol. alcohol and you just become more attractive to you which gives you the confidence to go up to someone
who likely does not find you attractive, and maybe over time, and I'm being somewhat serious here, gives you a chance to demonstrate excellence. Do you want to know the scariest stat I have seen? We're totally going off script here. I'm so jet-lagged. i'm fine with it go ahead she came in from australia i did um anyways uh more than half 51 51 of 18 to 24 year old males have never asked a woman out in person
Think about just how tragic that is, that these young men are not developing the skills to much less potentially meet a romantic partner, have kids, which I think is the whole shooting match. Not that you can't be happy without that, but I think everyone should have the option. And then they're not developing social skills.
And we don't like to talk about this, but your ability to open and establish contact and connection with someone. How many women are asking men out? Just curious. Oh, isn't that nice? No, it's nice. I'm just curious. Why can't that happen? Here's the bottom line. We talk a big game, but... Somewhere between 70 and 80% of women. What does that mean? Between 70 and 80% of women still say they want the man to initiate.
contact so they still expect i mean think about young men quite frankly are getting a lot of mixed messages in my view and it's making them a social and then we have the most talented companies in the world in response to this conference, trying to convince them they can have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with an algorithm. Here, trust me on this. Trust me. Go out, drink more, make a series of bad decisions that might pay off.
I'm not sure you're right on the statistics, honestly, but you should do that. Everybody should ask each other out. My sons are both asked out by the girls. They are now seeing their girlfriends. Yeah, but your sons are handsome. Yeah, okay. The rest of us have to take our shot. The rest of us have to do something like this. Do you know what I think you mean? Oh, God, here he goes again. Do you believe in love at first sight? No.
No. Or should I walk by? Show your abs. How about breakfast? Oh, God. Do you know what I'm thinking right now? I'm reconsidering the possibility of doing another four-year deal with Scott Galloway, but I've just re-reconsidered it. You'll be 78, I'll be 36. Do you think? By the way, by the way, for men, for men, 50 is a new 30, and for women, 40 is a new 90. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
I should have slept in and watched Church Chat. All right. You know what? We're going to end up together in like a... You'll be wheeling me around. Yes, I'll be wheeling you around. Looking over the wheelchair. Yes, and then I'll keel over and you'll be sitting there by yourself because no one's going to want to talk to you. Anyway, speaking of shots, we're going to do shots here.
like we promised on the show. I don't do shots. Really? Yeah, I don't do shots. What do you mean you don't do shots? I don't do shots. Why? Someone, it's like that propaganda. You literally just told him to drink and now you don't do shots?
We'll put sugary shit on top of it in a lime and pretend like you're sophisticated. You're going to do a shot today. Literally, this is me at the storehouse last night. The loveliest people come up to me and they're like, thank you for your work on store. Just get me off. Fucking Makers and Ginger. I don't want to talk about anything. You're doing a shot because it's...
Don't mess with Texas. All right. We're going to fuck with Texas today. Anyway, as I was saying, we're doing our thing. We've got a lot to get to today. We're taking questions from the live audience of which are going to be most of the show. But we want to talk about a couple of things following the news that Trump... is reigning in Elon Musk.
us believe this and doge let's talk about how elon's actual business they're doing as he dabbles in government spacex largest starship exploded this past week during a test flight that's the second time it's happened he does blow up a lot of rockets tesla sales and stuff Stock prices are down and the company is at risk of bleeding cash.
Is this business mishaps happening because of his role in government or in spite of it? How do you look at these? And then Starlink, which may or may not go public, we'll talk about that in a minute, has seen competition from China, from Jeff Bezos, from all kinds of stuff.
What's happening here? Well, I think it's a tale of two cities here. And that is Tesla is crashing in the sense that, I mean, you've heard. So I'm... doing breakfast with the nike people tomorrow nike went political with their embrace of colin kaepernick but they did the math and that is two-thirds of nike sales are outside of the us and no one outside of the us thinks the us
has got race relations right. Two-thirds of their revenue and probably 70% or 80% of their profits come from people under the age of 30. They also have a huge customer base in non-whites. essentially the people who burn their nikes after they endorsed nike that was probably their first pair of nikes and that is they knew that their core audience would probably feel very good about that move as smart as that was
Musk's political forays or adventures are that stupid because 75% of Republicans say they would never buy EV. He's gone very red pill. In California, his biggest market EV sales for Tesla are down dramatically. And even after this crash in sales in Europe, if you look at the company, it's lost about a third of its value in February. It's lost all of its kind of Trump bump gains. If you look at it from a valuation perspective.
apple only grew two percent last year but it trades at a 38 times earnings multiple amazon grew 10 38 times pe nvidia grew
about 114 percent and it has a p multiple of 40. tesla grew one percent tesla's flat and it has a price earnings multiple of 144 so tesla is still even after shedding a third of its value is the most overvalued company in tech maybe the exception of palantir and it the sales are just not it's crashing his political calculus as it relates to tesla was just irrational now to be fair spacex and and and um uh the the the value proposition of spacex is that rockets blow up
And that is they can take risks that NASA and the government can't. And 99% of their launches are successful. They're responsible for about 78% of the launches right now. The Falcon Heavy rocket. can get shit into the air, into orbit for $1,500 a kilogram. The next best is a Russian company called Angora that can do it at three times the cost. So their ability to take those sorts of risks and put shit into space for a third of the price of the second best per kilogram launch vehicle.
I think SpaceX is going to be worth more than Tesla in 2025. But taking your eye off the ball, because there are now competitors, there's going to be increasing amounts of competitors. Will the same thing happen? Is this political collocation a good one for him? Because they may use Starlink at the FAA. They may use...
But they were buying cyber trucks for some reason for the State Department. I think more than trying to increase revenues, it's trying to clear out obstacles. So there are 11 federal agencies that have 32 investigations currently underway for different... companies. And a lot of those inspectors and people seem to be getting the axe. So I don't think his foray into government is about trying to increase revenues. I think it's about trying to clear out the inspectors and potential regulation.
But it doesn't look like the calculus is very smart here. Like David Sachs getting involved in crypto and then getting... Trump to have dinner with the guy from Ripple who probably promised him money. And then all of a sudden deciding to include Ripple in the strategic Bitcoin reserve. By the way, there's nothing fucking strategic about that. And then all of a sudden Ripple rips.
That's smart political kleptocracy corruption, but at least that's smart. His political forays so far, I don't think are paying off for him. You don't think so. What will happen then to Tesla from your perspective? Just a downward slide. I mean, they have to obviously update the cars. They're talking about self-driving, full self-driving. They're talking about robo-taxis, which already are ineffective.
with Waymo for years, actually. Yeah, but you said Waymo's just light years ahead of them. And if Tesla starts trading like a regular automobile company in terms of price to earnings, it would be at 14 bucks a share. it's just impossible to to rationalize evaluation i still think it's a really good car i think you know i can't help it i got a tesla on my uber app i cancel or i let them wait outside i know that's wrong um but
It is a good car. It's a great company. It should trade at a multiple of 50 to 100% more than the other car companies, meaning it's a $25 or $30 stock. So where's the benefit for him in this kleptocracy you speak of? That's the correct question. I don't know. Fame, narcissism, go red pill, clear out inspectors. To me, the calculus is not smart here. Tesla has basically...
become a brand that means has some very negative brand associations. I think that too. I think people who are buying it are repulsed by it or actually repulsed by it and are not. But, you know, you see all these stories and actually you're seeing violence. Tesla facilities, not just there, but at charging stations. The cars are getting defaced. I think people are embarrassed to have them.
I mean, the Uber thing is simple. I actually won't take a Tesla Uber. I just don't, I don't like the cars actually myself. I find them, it feels like I'm sitting in the inside of an egg. I know it sounds dumb, but if you're in there, it feels sterile. And I don't, if I'm going to.
pay more for a car an uber i want a nice comfortable car but that's besides what i think it's just it's just a brand destruction is what's happening and he doesn't seem to mind because i think he's bored with his other businesses and this is interesting to him
What he's doing. But the pushback is real from the thing. Do you think that the case with him and Marco Rubio? There was a very funny SNL skit last night on that. Do you think the pushback is actually real? People keep predicting he and Trump. Finally if so 92% of Trump's advisors were fired So there's a 90% it's like being second lieutenant in Vietnam. You're just you're
you're probably not going to last very long. That was ugly. Yeah, it's dark. But 92% of those advisors in the first administration were fired, more than all the advisors that were fired in the previous three administrations. He's very good at... creating human heat shields. If in fact he has told his cabinet they're now in charge and he's an advisor, it means he's done. He does not have the complexion to go to, you know, Senator Rubio, excuse me, Secretary Rubio.
And also these individuals have no incentives to trim their departments. They have very difficult jobs and their departments, all of this is a fine. A giant fucking distraction. So far, according to the Wall Street Journal, Doge has saved $2.6 billion. If you wanted a 6x Doge, just cut off all subsidies to Tesla, which have been $15 billion. This is a giant misdirect. This is this is this is a giant misdirect to get you
And mostly young people to look away. Oh, Doge. Oh, he's crazy. He's firing people. All these sad stories about federal employees being let go. They're actually real. They are actually getting fired. I get it. And people in the private sector are fired every day. But they want you to look. over here, such that you don't look at the tax plan, that it's going to add $800 billion to the deficit.
So this is the conspiracy that is elegant and that people aren't looking at. Talk about DEI being a helicopter crash. Talk about Doge. Talk about inflamed people by saying... stupid laws like male versus female, that's how they're spending their time? Because look over here, not at the fact that the point, not at the fact that the 0.1% who,
will say under the breath, yeah, I don't want to go to his inauguration, but my accountant tells me I'm going to get another $11 million this year. This is a conspiracy between the 0.1% and an administration that wants you to look over here and ignore the fact that we're about to... levy the greatest increase in taxes in history called a deficit. Anyone under the age of 40 in here at some point is either going to have to pay that back.
Or the forward-leaning investments we've been able to make in the past in technology and space and education are going to get crowded out by the interest on this debt, which is now greater than our military. So we need to reframe this discussion and say, America is about to incur the greatest tax increase in history on young people that's deferred called the deficit. Don't look at that.
Look at that. They just fired three people, the National Forestry Service. Who the fuck cares? I know it's sad. I know it's bad. No, I don't. I think it is actually a hollowing out, not just of the regulators. of Elon, although I think that's very clear that that's, I mean, they're definitely- But what is the percentage, the actual numbers? It's a very small amount. He's not saving any money. I mean, the whole thing is kind of a thing. It's a misdirect. It is a misdirect. And at the same time-
They were going to pass this tax law anyway. They were not going to not pass this tax law. And I do think the Democrats, as we talked about last week, focusing in on Elon, is good politically because he's disliked from poll after poll. The polls are very clear. So I'm not so sure it's the smartest idea to have this. This misdirect is different than DEI crashed planes versus something else.
I do think it's at the heart of what Trump's doing, and I think he's antagonizing a lot of his base, and by that I mean people in Washington, for no good reason, when he could get these things passed no matter what.
i think there's a large percentage of moderates that feel like breaking some eggs and laying off people in the public sector whether first off if this were an audit the net results of the audit so far is there's dramatically less inefficiency fraud and waste than we thought in government they're just if you look at their quote-unquote wall of receipts
They haven't been able, it appears, to actually find any fraud or waste. Right, that's exactly right. We saved $8 billion. Oh no, it's actually $8 million and the money's already been spent. And then numbers two, three, and four that they supposedly save money on? weren't real if this is an audit the government is getting an outstanding clean bill of health around fraud and waste but having said that i do think moderates
kind of like the idea. And every administration has done some form of this, just not so weird. They do. There's always that sentence, like, of course, we're all for government reform. If you notice, they always do that. But these departments are, Senator, or Secretary Rubio isn't going to agree to cut. If he's actually in charge now, he's got a tough job. He's not going to say, yeah, you snort.
do a few rails of ketamine and then come in here and tell me what ambassadors or what people we should lay off. He's not going to say that. He does look like his soul has come out of his body. If he has to report into him now, it means Doge is over, in my view. Yeah, we'll see. It'll take a while to get him out.
Elon is a bit like mold. So let's talk about how Elon is influencing the business world by moving his Texas here to Texas. He's not the first to do it. Now Chevron, KFC and Meta are talking about putting their HQs here. The governor of Delaware. where most Fortune 500 companies are incorporated, is now scrambling to keep companies there. You and I have talked about that. I mean, do people...
You have talked about being a good thing because Texas is more business friendly versus other places. I assume other states will try to do the same thing. Wyoming, I know, is doing that. Nevada. There's certain states that are... doing that do you think delaware is over as a place to do business no delaware is traditionally seen as very corporate friendly especially then they're efficient around their chancery court and the way they decide so i
I don't think you can be for competition and ask big tech to break up and not support competition among states. I think the thing that's going to incense... California to get its shit together is a lot of people are leaving for Texas because they do. The three greatest arbitrages available, I think, in economic history are one, the arbitrage from fossil fuels to things that build everything from this to, you know, the tennis shoes you have probably.
in them. Second is to find young ambitious people who will work as hard or harder because they don't have dogs and kids and will be 80 or 90 percent as good as the person who's been with your company 20 years but because they're naive and can live in a 300 square foot apartment, you'll have to pay them 30 or 40% as much. The most successful companies in the world participate in the arbitrage of young people who don't know any better.
right? Those are your most valuable employees is the overeducated, really hardworking 25 year old that you pay 80 grand instead of 250 grand to the 40 year old who has kids. The other big arbitrage right now economically in the United States is state arbitrage. And that is people who basically say, okay, and I did this in 2010.
i got my my son was denied he's doing great now because he was speech delayed when he was four from seven out of seven schools that wanted to charge us fifty eight thousand dollars a year for him to play with blocks we moved we moved to florida
And the school there, a lovely little school, was $12,000. So the geographic arbitrage that's taking place across America, where people are moving to lower cost, higher quality of living states, like Texas and Florida, is a great thing. So companies coming here... I think is a good thing. I think it's important. What's weird is Meta, Chevron, and KFC. So carbon, teen depression, and diabetes. Would you move to Texas?
Florida hasn't worked out as well. The whole Miami tech thing is sort of a bust right now. Yeah, it's a good quality of life, though. It's a really nice quality of life. I understand, but that didn't take off. I can see living here. Don't you think you can live there? This seems pretty nice. No. No? No.
Austin? They don't like the gays. Austin doesn't like gay people? Is that fair? I know that. I'm aware of that. I'm aware. But let me say, I worry about my family a lot, like in different certain states. I love Austin. I love this area, but you have a state government that's hostile to my family. So it's really hard when I'm making, Florida, forget it.
And I'm even worried in D.C. My kid's in a D.C. public school. And, you know, she brought home, they did like a little diversity moment where they were just, it was coloring in, a coloring thing. And I thought, oh, wow, one of these fucking senators from some. stayed in.
who has no values that i have are going to try to mess with my kids education i think about it all the time and then i don't i don't walk in your shoes so i take your word for it yeah it's just you just you have to be thinking really hard about where you want to raise your kids and where they're going to attack your family. I mean, I think about it. I didn't think I'd have to think about it again in my life, except now I do. So, again, I don't have your lived experience. Right.
But the tax is fantastic. I can hire extra security. As a Florida resident, I think a lot of Florida... citizens are horrified by some of the laws that have been passed around restricting a woman's right yeah woman's rights there's no doubt about it that's rattling but just on the ground i live in delray beach
It feels like a pretty progressive community that's very open and welcoming. I get it. But anytime a state can talk with me, I'm very aware of it. And it's one of the reasons I love California and stuff. But I get it. I get it. There's definitely a...
cost-benefit analysis, but I just find I'd rather be in states that support my family. That's all. So you think a lot of states will move here? You do? You do think they'll move? Oh, there'll definitely be companies that incorporate here and move here. Oracle is here.
I think that's a great thing. I think competition, intrastate competition is really important. I think it's good for the economy. You guys are building like crazy here. What in the hell is going on? I've never seen such, like every time I come back here, I think there can't be another building here in Austin. There's another fucking building. It's getting a little much, I'll be honest with you. All right. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll have more for you.
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That's cloaked.com slash vox. And check out with code podcast to get 30% off a Cloak subscription. Okay, Scott, we're back. On Friday, President Trump held the first ever crypto summit at the White House. Such a pro, right? What an elegant segue. How did she pull it off? Oh, my God. What are you doing here on a Sunday morning? Can I just tell you? There is no way you could do what I do. See? The crowd agrees.
On a lot of levels. Let me just say, if you understood what's happening here, you're the pretty one. Incredibly. You're the pretty one who just sits there and says things. I'm sorry, what did you say? Yeah, I'm the pretty one. Do you think we'll ever have sex? That's what I get. Do you think we'll ever have sex? Do you think we'll ever have sex? The two of us? Yeah, just curious. I'm down as long as I don't have to be there. Okay.
That would be so weird. Oh, God, you don't know what it takes to get me going now, Kara. Yeah. It's a Pam Greer film, eight bottle of cocaine and a cattle prod up my ass, and then it's go time! It's go time for a good 90 seconds. Oh, I was just thinking about that. And then when I climax, I scream out, surrender Dorothy! Or, my favorite, from Wicked. I'm melting.
How did we get here? Get us out of this. No, I'm just kidding. Get us out of this now. You probably cry. I've never thought about having sex, just so you know. Yeah, which is why you brought it up. Yeah, I'm just... It just seems like the inevitable end of our relationship.
Oh, God. Suddenly we'll look at it. It's like a movie, like a Hallmark movie. I just ate. Okay. All right. Okay. Now we're back. Okay. President Trump held the first ever crypto summit at the White House. Crypto experts, lawmakers, administration officials gathered as Trump declared a war.
crypto is over. A day earlier, Trump signed an executive order creating a strategic Bitcoin reserve and separate digital assets stockpile. The reserve will be established with Bitcoin that has been seized from federal law enforcement. I don't know how much that is during Trump's second term. The SEC had already closed several investigations into cryptocurrency firms. Sam Bankman-Fried, if you saw him on Tucker Carlson the other day, he's hoping to get in on that forgiveness.
been campaigning for a pardon from President Trump. I bet he gets it. What do you think of the reserve? And will you be thinking about more crypto investments now that this is happening? You and I have been sort of- in and out on whether crypto is good i i ultimately think it's
Probably more, some of it's okay, some of it isn't. Some of the people in crypto find this disturbing, the way they're doing this, in the way they found the Biden administration to be too difficult in terms of rolling things out.
So this is essentially just pure pay for play. And Republicans would argue that... okay we're just more transparent about it but the crypto community gave 285 million dollars to the trump campaign and what do you know he's decided to have a quote-unquote strategic bitcoin reserve
It makes absolutely no sense. You have a strategic petroleum reserve, and it is strategic because if there's a war or our supply chain of fossil fuels gets cut off, we don't want our economy to come to a halt if we need to build tanks or just keep the economy open. So we have a strategic reserve.
What's going to happen if we run out of Bitcoin? Like, how is that a defense threat? So there's nothing strategic about it. What it is is the following. You give me $285 million. So I'm going to increase the deficit.
I mean, when we seize assets, when the FBI seizes assets, they immediately sell them because they don't want to be in the business of owning boats or Bitcoin or whatever. That's not their job. They're not hedge fund managers. If you have a nation that's creating more revenue than you're spending, then you have. a sovereign fund that tries to find alpha which they're also trying to do a sovereign fund he's talked about that but why we don't need a sovereign we
We need higher taxes and lower spending. We don't have any additional money because then you're saying the government is better at allocating investment capital than the investment community. And by the way, all this is, again, another increase in a deficit. to transfer wealth to his 0.1 percenters such that you can own a little bit of Bitcoin. Here's a crazy idea. Go buy your own fucking Bitcoin. I mean, it just.
This makes no sense whatsoever. This is pure. You gave me $285 million. So I'm going to come up with a bunch of jazz hands around why we should have a strategic reserve. And by the way, there's a negative implication. Bitcoin is terrible. for the United States strategically, because the biggest, baddest carrier strike force in our arsenal is an invisible one called the U.S. dollar. And when we put sanctions on a country, it has teeth, because we can stop...
them from trading in dollars, which makes it very hard for them to do business globally. So if you're going to create another global reserve currency, all you are doing is attacking our aircraft carrier squadron called the dollar.
kleptocracy and pay for play and make no sense, it's actually damaging to the underlying strength of America because it's diminishing the dollar. So what should they do? Because a lot of people felt the Biden administration had been hostile, especially Gary Gensler, who you and I both talked to. Yeah.
They had been hostile to the development of it, trying to over-regulate it. I do understand why their inclination is to regulate it, because it's currency. It does affect other parts of the economy. It's a legit, it's Bitcoin is establishing. First off, I don't think you can talk about.
Bitcoin in the same breath as the other ones. Bitcoin has established itself as a credible store of value because the genius of Bitcoin is they've created this algorithm or this methodology where you have to constantly throw numbers to unlock or mine Bitcoin. And people now believe.
The market now believes that they're going to stop minting at 21 million. So Bitcoin is increasing less fast than gold reserves, than we're printing U.S. dollars. So the market says this is a legitimate store of value. is an asset class. What's to stop anyone at Doja or Ripple or ETH from massively increasing the supply? It's supposed to be one of three things. It's supposed to be a payment mechanism.
No one's using this shit for payments. It's supposed to have utility. You could argue ETH and some of them, maybe they make payments, maybe other... stable coins go on their technology but for the most part there's no real utility here folks it's not like dentists use bitcoin to fill your cavities there's just
There's no real utility. What it could be is a store of value. And one of them, in my view, has created a store of value, and that is a legitimate store of value, and that's Bitcoin. Other than that, it's pure speculation, which is fun. But the notion that we're going to get involved, you're about to see in 36 months.
You're going to see a raft of stories about crypto scans that happen between now and the next 36 months. Because you could make an argument that it was being overregulated or there was a lack of regulation, which created insecurity. Like people, I think Brian Armstrong.
will fairly say, just tell us what the rules are and we'll comply. But they couldn't get any clarity. So you could argue there was an under-regulation, but there was opaque regulation. But now it's the Wild West. You're going to see so many scams. Would you buy Bitcoin right now?
I'm a no-coiner. I was on the board of a company called Ledger, which was a crypto hardware wallet because I wanted to learn more. But I generally don't invest in things I don't understand. And I'll go down and I'll have lunch with Michael Saylor whenever I'm in Miami. And within about 10 minutes,
of hearing him, he's brilliant, I start thinking, put everything into Bitcoin. This guy's just so much fucking smarter than me. Put everything into Bitcoin. And then by the time I leave lunch, I'm like, I have no fucking idea what Bitcoin is. I don't... I don't understand it. I just don't get it. So I'm a no-coiner. Do you own any? I do, but I can't find it. You can't find it. Yeah.
That's right. You told me that. Yeah, I bought it at the beginning. People know this story. I bought it at the beginning. I was writing a story about Wences Casares, who started Zappo. And I bought 10... 10 or 50 bitcoin i don't know but it was like 50 bucks each
And it must have been $10 because they spent $500. I've been using that to our advantage. That story's out there that Kara has like $50 million in Bitcoin in a drawer somewhere. It's not in a drawer. I don't know where it is. It's probably at Lucky's house. But whenever I'm with Bankoff, we're in the midst of... Yeah, go get my mother. Do something.
We're in the midst of negotiating a new four-year deal with Vox, and I'm just malicious and Machiavellian. Last night, I'm like, oh, hey, Jim. He's like, what are you doing? I'm going to the Spotify party. They want to talk to us. And also, I heard Kara found her crypto. Duh. From Spotify. Anyway. By the way, Netflix is getting into podcasting. Just saying. Just saying. So no Bitcoin for us. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break and we'll be back with our next big story.
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You won't take a shot. I have liquor for you. That's why she makes the big bucks. I do. I make the big bucks. We're back with our next big story. Let's talk very quickly about IPOs. I want to get to questions from the audience. I want you to be brief here. I know it's difficult for you.
2025 was expected to be a big year for IPOs, thanks to Trump and his pro-business anti-regulation administration. But with tariff whiplash, regulatory changes, inflation concerns out there, we're not seeing an IPO just yet. Although StubHub and Discord are reportedly getting ready to dip. their toes in the waters. Some other long rumored is Sheehan OpenAI and SpaceX. What is the, is it good time to go public? It doesn't seem like there have been any. Sheehan, for example.
is facing some headwinds with Trump ending the de minimis loophole that allows them to ship cheap goods from China to the U.S. without paying taxes and import duties. Where is the IPO market, briefly? It's... It's kind of the walking dead. In 2021, there were 1,000 IPOs that raised $280 billion. Last year, there were 150 IPOs that raised $30 billion.
I mean, the IPO market is just literally dead. It hasn't been this bad for this long in a long time. And we keep hoping something is going to set the starting gun for it again. I got this wrong. I thought Reddit was going to ignite the market, and it hasn't. The IPO market is still really dormant. It's just very cold. Terrible. And will it come back with any of these? Some of these are promising companies, obviously. You would think, but I mean...
Is this a cyclical thing or is it structural? Because it used to be you couldn't get these types of valuations unless you tapped into deep institutional capital. But now that institutional capital is moving into the private markets. And when open AI can raise money to. $300 billion market cap, which creates a greater value than 90% of public companies, and you have opportunities or access to liquidity, secondary markets. Is that right? 40 to 60? But the point is...
Do we need the public markets? The problem is, is that yet again, we are sequestering the majority of the upside of our prosperity to the private markets that consist mostly of 0.1 percenters and institutional investors. The people who got to invest in Google. You know, retail investors have done exceptionally well. Same as Apple. The problem is institutional money figured out.
Why are we giving away these gains to the retail market? We can capture them privately and offer employees liquidity and have less regulation. So unfortunately, right now, the retail markets have become the last stop when you can't find private investors. to take your valuation up. And most of the margin, most of the juice gets squeezed out. So yet again, the IPO market is another indication of the fact that we're cramming all the prosperity into a small number of institutions.
in being public. Because of regulation. It's not the thing you want anymore because of regulation, because of public-facing... I bet a lot of these companies may go private. Do you ever see one of the very big companies going private? That is an excellent point. If you look at...
some of the fallen angels, and you look at the amount of money capital sitting on the sidelines in private equity, it's over $4 trillion of capital waiting to be deployed. I think we're going to see, I did my prediction stack yesterday, I think we're going to see the biggest take private in history this year.
And it'll be, in my opinion, my three favorite targets are Intel, which is arguably the worst managed company in tech over the last 20 years. I mean, it's one thing when your stock goes into the shitter when your company's in structural decline, right? Warner Brothers Discovery. they can claim we're facing headwinds. Intel has literally been in the best business in the world for the last 30 years. And they have been one of the worst performing stocks.
Someone might step up. I think it's got a $70 or $80 billion. Someone might step up and go there. The two others I like are Boeing, and the third is Target. Big, big, outstanding brands, decent management, great businesses.
and the opportunity to get them you know they're fallen angels they're on sale right now and there's so much money i think there could be a club deal to take one of those companies private those are the three would you be part of that one of those i don't i don't think so yeah
No, I don't. Yeah, that's interesting. All right, get ready to ask questions. Taylor, bring out the liquor, please. Thank you. Scott, you're going to have a shot. You promised. Thank you. You can do a little one. You can do it. This is Taylor, everybody. Taylor Griffin, who is amazing. she's one of our go ahead taylor is from texas where are you from taylor porter anzus porter anzus yeah oh my god hello
Anyway, she's amazing. By the way, take a moment. All our staffs on all our podcasts are amazing. Ish. Ish. No, they're great. They have to put up with Scott, obviously. Thank you, Taylor. Okay, give him the big one. I'll take the little Texas boot. I'll do that one, the boot. Give him the boot. Okay, give him the boot. You're trying to get me drunk. Yes, I'm not. Yes, because I want to have my way with you. Okay. There we go. There it is again.
Thanks for that. All right. Okay. Let us begin with audience questions. Everybody, line up here, please. Stand up and ask questions of us. Start walking. You can ask anything you want. Anything. You got to introduce yourself, though. Yes, please. Yes, please. Is this on? All right. Hello, I'm Malcolm. Okay, start here. My question is, how do you guys go about avoiding audience capture?
and making sure you're not just going over the same points over and over again because it's what your audiences come to expect from you meaning i don't even know what that means so like certain people like joe rogan other podcasters have kind of gotten into a where they only talk about a certain topic because that's what their audience comes to expect from them. Yeah.
How do you guys avoid that? It's hard. It's actually hard. We think about it a lot, especially because we have other podcasts and we're doing other things. But one of the things that I think is important is actual narrative in stories. And I think one of the things that's attractive about our podcast...
is you follow us over time, right? And I notice when we talk to our fans, when they come up to us, they like the story about us, about our relationship, not just, you know, and they like the whole story. And I think... As we follow things and we learn and sort of start to analyze, it's not a bad thing necessary. Obviously, sometimes we worry about the Elon-ness of it, like at this point. We get it, but I got to tell you, we're growing. Like it's hard to say.
It's like Trump. You're sort of like stuck in a situation. He really is consequential. And so you can't ignore him. But we definitely think about how to be fresh and not repetitive. And that's hard because you have to come up with new insights all the time. Scott. Yeah, I do think, and we've talked about, I think we talk about politics too much. And I think a lot of people came in expecting us to talk about tech and business. And oftentimes, sometimes justifiably.
But we are both passionate about politics and we both feel very invested and we get triggered by some of this stuff. But if we were purely about what I'd call purity of editorial and trying to be as appealing to as large a group as possible. which oftentimes involves not alienating 49% of the U.S.
we would talk probably less about politics, but I don't think we can resist. But it's hard now because they're really fucking in Washington, these assholes. I mean, it's really, I always joke. Case in point. Yeah, it's hard not to, they're there. And, you know, David Sachs is deciding on this idiotic crypto.
reserve you've got like they're all wandering i live in washington now i moved and then there they are like the top day and i'm like fuck half half the nation is right or center right i'm center left she's Crazy fucking left? No, I'm not. You are so much leftier than I am these days. But go ahead. You think? Yeah, really. You've become somewhat of a San Francisco lesbian, if I had to be honest.
You have gone rather that's right more. I'm more expecting the Trump people Let's get through as many as we can go ahead. Um, my name is Tatum This is about trade schools and Scott it's kind of for you, but my family owns cosmetology schools and hair and skin
And so, Kara, you're certainly able to answer this question. Okay. Thank you. No shade, Scott. You talk a lot about the diminishing ROI on traditional four-year college degrees and the need for more practical, high-earning career paths. Given the rising...
costs of college and labor shortages in skilled trade. What systematic changes, whether in policy, culture, or corporate investment, do you think are necessary to reposition trade schools as a first choice pathway rather than a fallback option? That's a great question. I'll start very quickly. I think it's critically important. They do it in Europe all the time, and it's without the shame of it. There's something in this country thinking that college is a better option. It's just stuck in the...
minds of parents i think in a lot of ways i have a son who i would love to be a chef for example and go to school i don't think he happened to like college and it went really well it's gone he's graduating this year my oldest son but i do think i thought a lot about like if he wanted to do other things uh for my other son college was critical because he's going to be in fusion energy and he needs to be trained and stuff but it's definitely getting the this
For some reason, there's a stink on the idea of it in this country, and I don't know why, because these are great professions. They're very difficult. They're AI-proof in many ways, right? And I don't know why there is a sense that that's not the way to go. in this country it's true i'm a hairdresser but went to college first and yeah saying one or the other a totally different reaction from people yeah we don't have an apprentice culture and if you look at
There's so many factors that have led to young men struggling, falling further faster than any other cohort in America. And part of it is like, what happened to Otto Wood and Metal Shop? Two-thirds of males just aren't cut out for a liberal arts education. They don't have the discipline. They don't have the demeanor to get through college. That's just not what they want.
And unfortunately, a lot of those jobs are passed to the middle class, have been outsourced or no longer existed. I didn't like Biden's bailout plan of student loans. I just thought that was creating more moral hazard and people were going to borrow more money from an isolated pantsuit with an NYU logo. was saying, your education investments in yourself lowest pay off, and then they get out with a philosophy major, and they have $130,000 in debt.
I didn't like the bailout. What they could have done and should do is the following. If they were to take $100 billion and take the 100 biggest of our public universities, which are the best in the world, and said, I will give you a billion dollars over the next 10 years if you do three things. One, you have to expand your enrollments greater than population growth.
You have to cut your tuition 2% a year, which would result in 10 years, a doubling in the number of freshmen seats at half the cost. Take it back to the 80s when I applied to UCLA and the admissions rate was 76% and the cost for all seven years. undergrad and grad for me at ucl and berkeley with seven thousand dollars i am here
because of the generosity of California taxpayers. And the third thing they need to do is at least 20% of their certificates need to be non-traditional, non-four-year degrees, nursing, specialty construction. installation of HVAC. These jobs, we need these people. And there's this...
This obnoxious self-aggrandizement, I have given a lot of my money to UCLA and Berkeley for what's called continuing education because they couldn't call it vocational programs because me and my colleagues are such fucking snobs. We need... Think about how little the college degree has not innovated. There's amazing jobs. I was on a plane with this woman who's the IV whisperer. She works at a hospital, and she can find any vein.
That's her whole thing. When they can't find a vein on somebody, they call her. And she makes $180,000 working three a year, working three 12-hour shifts. That's a fucking amazing job. And she needed two years of training. Universities need to innovate and they need to...
recognize we're not there to make ourselves feel important to this bullshit rejections culture, but to train people to have the economic security for them and their families. One, you have to grow your population, your freshman class faster than population growth. You have to cut costs 2% a year.
which inflation in 10 years would cut it in half, and at least 20% of your certificates have to be some sort of vocational programming. That's how we take our universities to the next level and create more— It's also a good message for Democrats, for example, to— Big ideas. And also reignite, give younger people, quite frankly, mostly men, more past...
on ramps to the middle class. I'm not saying you wouldn't see women, but the program I'm involved in, 70% of the people who show up who aren't cut off for college are men. So many avenues have been shut off, traditional means to economic security for men who are not quite frank that they're just not cut out as well for college. They're less mature. They're less disciplined. There's now more women in college. It's 60-40 globally now. And by the way, we should do nothing.
to get in the way of that. What I'm suggesting is let's not forget the people who are never going to go to college. They're just not cut out. Remember that guy in high school? They were everywhere. They were just not going to go to college, but they could fix a fucking car. They were really good with their hands.
And instead, we got rid of those classes and put in computer science and got rid of civics, and we end up with fucking Mark Zuckerberg. Bring back Metal Shop. That's how it happened. All right, I'm going to cut you off. We're going to try to get... Thank you for the question. Yeah.
My name is Moritz. I'm from Germany. I'm a big fan of the show. Where in Germany? From where? From Cologne. Oh, cool. Most beautiful cathedral and the best beer in all Europe. Yes, there are people who would argue with that, but probably you're right. Yeah, so you talked about that on the show recently, how Elon Musk interfered with the German election and tried to bring down our democracy as well.
My question is, are we going to see more of that? And what's the endgame here? And as you often put it, Scott, what's the effective response? Probably. And also, if I'm saying I love you to my wife who's at home, is that going on the show? Yes, yes, it just did. It just did. I love you, Anna. I'll answer, Vivi. I just was in Australia, and they're terrified of Elon Musk coming over there and doing it.
something like or trump getting paying attention to them especially around their online safety bill that they passed and they're worried about they're they're absolutely worried about him funding they have a less uh active right-wing group there but they're worried about him funding uh that group uh he's going to do it
all over the world. I don't see him stopping. I think this is his... He thinks... I don't think it was particularly effective in Germany as much as the amount of... I think it was a negative effect, especially with the most charmless person in politics. They doubled their results. They did, but it was already on the way. They thought it would be more. They thought they'd really goose it. But J.D. Vance is the most charmless politician in existence right now.
You know, when they said Hillary Clinton was likable enough, when Obama said he's not likable enough. That's why I don't think he's the next president or whatever. But I think that he will continue to do so. Scott, briefly. I'm not as worried about foreign nations as I'm about the US. I don't think we want to come to grips with the fact that democracy and rights are now purely a function of wealth.
The R is almost one. It's almost perfectly correlated. And if shit gets real and there's some sort of economic shock and they start rounding up people, which we have done, by the way, in the past, right? Japanese families who were good citizens, who had kids fighting in the European theater.
We're rounded up in this country. So we like to believe we're above that. We are not. But the thing is, I have the money to shove a bunch of Bitcoin up my ass and peace out to Dubai. You're going to have to stick around and deal with this bullshit. I don't know where I'm going with this. I know. Anyways.
Quickly. Oh, I know where I am. All right. Musk, the wealthiest man in the world, basically, in my view... probably swung the election it's always like 48 48 and the two or four percent and then it's a small number of counties in a small number of states 285 million dollars very smart weaponized a platform and what do you know I'm more worried about the U.S. because the thing about Germany and the U.K. is they're like money in politics?
Let corporations and individuals spend as much as... Are you fucking crazy? They're like, we're not going to do that. The whole point of democracy is the demo. And democracy, we want... We want checks and balances of a populist voting, not a small number of very wealthy people. So in the UK, they start to finish elections in six months. And it's much more difficult, I think, to weaponize an election with just sheer brute force.
money. I'm more hopeful. I think European nations and other nations have decided. that money can't pervert their politics to the same extent in the U.S. I think he's given a new playbook to beyond, you know, other rich people who have done it in the past. But I think he's given a new playbook to a lot more people. And that is where he's been innovative. And unfortunately, all right.
quickly. Let's try to get through as many as we can. Hey, I'm Charlie from Vancouver, Canada. Go Canada. Scott, the last time I asked you a question, you actually asked me a question of what it was like to live in an apartment above a meth lab. in Canada. Okay. What would your advice be to Canadians today given everything going on between our two countries?
I think you're doing it just right. I think your country seems reunited. I can't believe Doug Ford is attractive as a candidate right now. I think you're all pushing back in a really terrific way. three-quarters of americans see canada as an ally or only one-third of canada see america as an ally now you want to talk about the most immoral and stupid decision turning
An unbelievable ally and friend into an enemy. The largest undefended border in the world is the U.S.-Canadian border. What does that tell you about us? They don't even know why.
We're trying to fuck with their economy. They're like, why are you doing this to this? We know it's going to raise costs for all of us, reduce our prosperity, shrink the economy. Why are you doing this? And the answer is fentanyl. The amount of fentanyl that's come over the U.S.-Canadian border could be stuck in a backpack. it's less than 1%. They don't even know why we're doing this shit. And here's the thing about Canada.
Followed us into World War I. Were ahead of us in World War II. Went over to the European theater and started training pilots. Into Kosovo. Helped us fight the Taliban. I love the question, and I said this yesterday, about... a woman that is friends with Warren Buffett, I thought it was very powerful, a Holocaust survivor, she said, my definition of friend is I would ask myself, would this person hide me? And you really think about that. It's a very intense...
puncturing question about what it means to be a real friend. You know who's a real friend to America? Canada. In the Iran hostage crisis, the embassy there hid six Americans and at immense personal risk, got them out of Iran. And then they stuck around. If they had been caught... They could have been hanged from cranes. Canada hid us. Thank you. Okay. I think you handled it very well. Okay, here. Short answer, Scott Galloway.
Well, that'll be tough because I'm going to ask something that pertains specifically to Scott. I'm Charles from Austin. Scott, I admire the work that you do related to championing young men. I do wonder perhaps if, are there any similar efforts out there related to trying to really challenge
older men, when it comes to this idea of leadership, where are we? So many of the problems that we have, it seems to me, could be better addressed if we had true leadership. And I don't mean from a left and right political point of view, but honestly, more from a... just truly leading and being in a position where at our core, we know what's right and wrong and having that overvalue or perhaps step above just those baseline. What makes me more money concerns.
Do you want to? I think the problem is older men. One time my son said, and I think this is a common thing, is we should send old men to war rather than young men, and maybe they'll stop. Like, you know, he was making the... be a pretty obvious point. I think we really have a problem with the people above them and it affects younger men as anyone who has a young man as a son. relative or something like that goes but I do think getting
people to change at a higher level is much more difficult, as anyone knows, like when you're dealing with someone like that. It would be great, but I don't think they change. I think they get worse and more stuck in their ways. I don't know, very briefly, because I want to get to the rest.
people my age are 72 percent wealthier than they were 40 years ago people under the age of 40 in this room are 24 less wealthy every major economic policy whether it's capital gains deduction or mortgage interest rate deduction is nothing but a transfer of wealth from the young to the old
Right. Who owns homes and stocks? People our age. Who rents and makes their money through current income salary? Young people. Until we have a series of class traders, older rich people who say enough is enough. If we don't reinvest in youth.
What's the point of any of this? For the first time in the nation's history, and I think all of our problems can reverse engineer to one data point. For the first time in our history, a 30-year-old isn't doing as well as his or her parents was at 30. And that's even worse than a 50-year-old.
year old not doing well because when your kid's not doing well when your daughter's not doing well it brings down the whole house you just feel bad about america so let me now list corporations and corporate leaders there's a lot of amazing leaders let me now list
Every guy my age in corporate America who is really taking a stand for America and the values that made them rich. All right. We'll end on that one. I'm going to do one thing. I'm going to bring up a woman because we've had all men ask questions. Sorry. First woman right there. Go ahead. Yeah. I don't really care what gender you are. There's more than two genders. Well, Scott, I just, my name's Leah. I'm from Austin. I grew up in Houston.
I've lived in this city off and on since the early 80s. So you think you've seen some shit. I've seen some shit. And also, I just want to let you know, Scott, you are on my list of future ex-husbands. Okay. I feel you, babe. Anyway. Why did you show your stomach? Like as if that's the most attractive part. He works harder at it than I do. I guess. So I got a million questions. All right. One quick question. So I want to make it quick.
You and Ed talked about how this is Brexit 2.0. This is what we're going through in this country right now. This election we just had is kind of a Brexit 2.0. We've made a decision or somebody. I didn't make the decision. Somebody did. So how do we vocalize this? How do we get active with people and really have them understand that we've shot ourselves in the foot?
They think it's a good thing. So Brexit, probably the greatest self-inflicted unforced errors are entering to Southeast Asia, going into Iraq, and in Europe. I live in London. It's like, how can we figure out a way to make everything more expensive and reduce our salaries? And they managed to do it elegantly with Brexit. This is worse than Brexit because it's essentially...
It's not only morally corrupt and taking away rights for the first time in a history of a democracy, but it's... it's essentially tearing up amazing 80 year long alliances with the world's biggest economy such that we can blow a murderous autocrat this is economically stupid it's morally corrupt so what can we do one
Try and not have the indignance I have, the emotional reaction, because I think it just tickles the censors of the right. Show up with facts. Focus, pick your punches on the one or two things. I'm focused on Ukraine and the deficit. And quite frankly,
We just need to get very activated and send a strong signal in the midterms in 26 and start working on 28. So I don't know what else to do other than to say, let's be focused. Let's not be emotional. Let's bring data and let's focus on the midterms.
and 20 the democrats need a project 2029 yeah a really serious one and then and get ready to put it in place all right very sorry we only have time for one more question sorry right here make it sorry thank you so much uh david from boston i'm confess I'm a reasonably satisfied seven-year Tesla owner. That's all right. It's a good car. We don't think it's not a good car. It's a decent car. But at what point...
There's no way that Musk is attending to Tesla, right? No. In a timely way as CEO. How long before the board, of which he is no longer chairman, starts to push back on him being absent? Won't happen? Never. They've made so much money. They've made so much money. And he's picked them. He's handpicked them. They've made so much money. Robin Denholm, the chairman, just sold a hundred and some million dollars. And also, just to be fair to him, he's clearly got a talent at finding good people.
So I don't I don't think it's I don't think he's been focused on Tesla for a while. He doesn't we have a bias against Elon Musk. I don't know if you've noticed, but he's he's clearly good at attracting and retaining very talented people because these are. I would argue these are well-run companies. But his board is not a board of directors.
It's not, they're not representing, they're representing Elon. And quite frankly, he's been right. He's created a ton of shareholder value. So if you, if you've made 150 million bucks, are you really going to like dress him down for tweeting or calling someone a pedophile? You're like, no, I got 100.
150 million reasons to ignore this. Yeah, there's some really good Wall Street Journal reporting on this, on the not just the money they've made as a board. It's really quite unprecedented. Like this is not a board of directors that has any.
independence in the way you think about a board and most boards are not by the way but this one is a particularly in the tank for elon and they've done well because of it so the shareholder that they're most interested in is elon musk and that's it and the company has suffered because of it and when it goes you know we'll see it goes down but if he has a great car that comes out or suddenly robo taxis work that would be great i just don't see it at this point going forward i had a tesla
I had a great car. He started calling me names on Twitter, so I sold it. And, you know, right before I sold it, I took a giant dump in the passenger seat. Back to you, Kara. It's like an episode of White Lotus. Thank you. Who's in White Lotus? He is. I just wanted to mention. Voice cameo. Face for radio. Yeah. Should I be insulted when they call you and say we want you in White Lotus? And they go, but just your voice. Yeah. Just your voice.
Well, it's really about you. White Lotus is about people like you, just so you know. Hot? No. I am. Let's be honest. Irritating fucking rich people. I am so Sidney Sweeney. Seriously. Seriously. You're more Steve Zahn, I think. Anyway. The guy that showed his nutsack? That's correct.
And he's not going to do that right here for you. No, we're not going to do that. We're not going to do that. Anyway, I'm sorry. We can't answer any more questions because we've got another podcast coming up. That's all we have. Thank you for listening to your favorite podcast on your favorite podcast platform. And for watching us on YouTube. We're killing it on YouTube for some reason. I don't know why. We'll be back Friday with more.
Pivot. Scott, please read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Nertot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Mia Silverio, Dan Shulon, and Drew Burrows. Nishat Keroua is Vox Media's executive producer. of podcasting. If you'd like to subscribe to the magazine, go to NYMag.
We very much appreciate you waking up on a Sunday morning during Daylight Savings. It's great to be here in the great state of Texas. It's great to be here by South Byte, and we really do appreciate. You coming up and being supportive and just generally just so lovely. Thank you so much for making time for us today. Thanks to Smartsheet for their support. Whenever creativity is showcased and thriving, that's where you'll find Smartsheet.
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