The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters. I just love that I can hit any.
Shot I kind of want.
We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping prooven Grounds Podcast Shane Bacon with Marty Jerts and Marty We've got a guest. I think a lot of people are gonna be interested in listening to Scott Sullivan, the senior manager amateur player development here at Ping and Scott, your guy played college golf, played at ASU. Sorry about that by the way, as an Arizona waldcap. But you have a really interesting job.
And I would say, as somebody that obviously is a very good player, to make your way up through Ping and get to develop young talent has got to be something that's been very interesting and very thrilling. How do you come into this position, Like how does this come about in your life?
Well, you know, when I finished school, I played professionally for three years. I got as far as the corn Ferry Tour now who was the Nike Tour back then? But then I realized that I got myself in a situation where I was spending more money than I was making. That didn't really prove to be a good formula, by the way you understand, So I had to it was time to make some decisions, and so I took about
six months to decide what I wanted to do. I almost took a job in the financial world, but an opportunity offered itself for me at Ping, and I took advantage of it, and I've been with Ping ever since.
Uh after you got in the door of Ping, you were rep on was it the Nike Tour?
Yeah, you know. When I started, I got in, did a little stint customer service, but I was fortunate enough to be on with the group that started our democrt fitting system, and actually, prior to that, we would take that out on the road to uh PGA section meetings and that kind of thing and do our presentations there. But then we switched over to bring our top accounts to Ping at their at their request, because they wanted to see they They always ask the question, is you know,
we want to see Ping. We want to see what you guys do and how you do it. And so then we'd bring them in and run them through a three day program on our campus. That's quite a fun thing.
You were at the very beginning of that. We just started doing that again, and the accounts love it because they love they love tour in the factory, everything at the proving grounds, visiting all the great experience.
It's certainly great experience for me.
But so you were, you were in early on of us kind of educating the accounts with in our fitting cart and all the options there and things of that.
Yeah. Then after that, I went over to the tour department, worked the Nike Tour and PJ Tour for two years and took over the collegiate program.
I mean, I think people like listening to the podcast probably don't even know this exists for the most part. I mean in terms of developing amateur players or funding junior golfers and the amateur players and collegiate players that couldut potentially be a ping professional if they turn pro and they become obviously a good player, I mean, how does that process work, Like, how do you introduce yourself to young players? I mean, how do you guys evaluate that level of talent?
Well, it is it's a very important part of what we do for a number of reason. I'm sure we'll get into all that, but what we do is is, you know, it's just kind of we recruit kids just like a college coach would, just from a slightly different angle. You know, first you're looking you're looking at golf swings. Then you're looking at see how a kid handles themselves on the golf course. You want to see them play
poorly to see how they respond to that. It's easy to watch them play well, but you want to see them struggle att bit and see how they respond. Then you look at the scoreboard. You see if what you see golf swing wise, which you're hoping is fundamentally sound, you hope the scores on the scoreboard reflect that. And then you put the pieces together. You you find out who mom and dad is, and you see what the relationship with kid and mom and dad to see if
that's a healthy relationship if not. You know, all those things go together to see if it's a right fit for ping and what we do, and if we want them to be part of our program.
I can imagine your job has changed a lot in terms of technology, and when I'm not talking about track me in technology I'm talking about Instagram, social media, being able to evaluate a golf swing on your phone versus having to go and see that in person. How different is your job in twenty twenty five than maybe what it looked like in two thousand.
Well, I think the main thing now is is it used years ago? You used to get product requests. People just call you on the phone, okay, or they send you an email. Now you get dms on Instagram or those kind of things, Oh hey, you know my driverhead crack? Can I get another one? And then you got to respond, yes, send me this yerial number, I'll get you another one.
You do it through those avenues and then to touch on what you said, And I think Marty can attest to this is in my experience over the last twenty five years, the technology that is going into the research and the design of golf products is more than the one hundred years up to that point. I think it's just it's unbelievable the advancement and the technology in the research.
Scott, how what age range does you and your team like start evaluating players? That's kind of one question, and the other one is what forums or formats you know, what tours tournaments, is your team looking.
At the the age The ages of the kids we work with are generally between the age of fourteen and twenty three, so you know, school wise, you say freshmen in high school up til they graduate college. That's one of the tough parts about this is we always work with kids between fourteen and twenty three, but I keep getting older and that really sucks. But anyway, and what we look for, you know, where the top tournaments during
the summer, spring and summer months. A lot of it too is is that at the state level, state junior championships, those kind of things, just the top competitive tournaments that kids will play in. We want to see how they play against each other. And then every once in a while we'll go off the beaten paths and we're just a different location, different kind of tournament, just to see
what's out there because you never know. And I know historically one tournament during the summer that we really like is the Western Junior because it's a big field, one hundred and fifty six kids and they come from all over and there's always one or two that nobody's ever heard of that are pretty good.
Yeah, I mean you mentioned and it's like college recruiting. I mean that sounds exactly the same as a college recruiting where you might be going to look at a tight end and all of a sudden, this right guard kind of catches your eye and you're like, oh, man, this is the guy that I might want to bring on for the team. Who is somebody in your career
doing this that you didn't know much about. You saw them in person for the first time, and you went, this is the kid that we've got to be paying attention to.
You know. Recently, there's a kid by the name of Alex Holder who he just committed to Auburn. Okay, he's a twenty twenty six. I was at the Future Master's number of years ago, and I went to watch one kid in the group who's a Florida kid, And then I see, oh, you know, I'm thinking that Alex was the Florida kid. Well, Alex is from Fort Wayne, Indiana, Okay, And so then trying to figure out, Okay, that's that's Alex, that's the Indiana kid. Well, who's Okay, who's his parents?
So I, you know, try to a couple holes later, try to figure out who the parents are for each kid. Then finally a pinpoint, Okay, that's Alex's dad. I'm guessing that's his dad. So I went up and introduced myself Alex's dad. Yes, I am okay, and then we got that relationship started. And you know, and I'm always one we use the resources we have at PING to get the job done. So Alex and his family, they they spend a little bit time down in Florida and West Palm. Well,
just last week Alex went down to West Palm. Hey, is there anybody here that I could get together with to get you know, try the new G four forty? So I call you on Lingmerth who's our salesman in that area? Hey, you'ren are you around? Can Alex come see you? They spent a day last week together, had a great time oron, got them all fixed up and uh, we're in good.
Shape, beautiful And Jon's got some experience, he's got help players.
Yep, yes he does as well. That's right.
We talked a little bit Scott about how things have changed in terms of communication with social media and what have you What have you seen in terms of in the last say, ten and twenty years looking back on the skill talent level of.
The junior golfers coming up.
Are they closer together now than they were?
Are they further apart.
In terms of skill level? What trends are you seeing there?
I think they're closer together now. Is the depth is greater. There's way way more good young players, and there's more good players that are fundamentally sound, and they're athletes now. And I think I go back even further. I think Tiger Woods made golf cool, right. He made it more athletic. He made it to where a kid that you know, maybe was a football player or a basketball player or baseball player or whatever. You know, I'm gonna go ahead
and play golf because it's cool now. It's okay. You know, it's not a dorky sport, you know, plaid pants and hard collar shirts like back in the day. But it's a legitimate deal. I think Tiger Woods legitimized it as an athletic sport. So you see more kids that are athletes, you see more kids that are fundamentally sound, and as a result, the quality of play is better. These kids are trained better, they're conditioned better, they're mentally stronger, all
of that. So I think that's the answer to that question.
And Scott, I mean, you know something I've been interested in terms of collegiate coaches is this idea of like, send me your track by numbers, right, I mean it's a thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year old kid. You want to look at those numbers because speed is sexy. I mean we talk about speed all the time in golf. How much can speed, let's say, blind you to the player
they are as a young player. And how much is speed at a young age important to somebody like you who's looking at a talent five, ten, fifteen years down the road.
Speed's important. You got to be able to smash it nowadays, and you're at such a disadvantage if you don't. Comparatively, you know, we look at speed, you know, and you look at a kid's build too, you know, Okay, do they have the build where they can put on some weight and get stronger to hit it further? You know what a mom and dad look like? You know what what? Because you always you're trying to project, for sure, you know, as a you know, fourteen year old, you're trying to project. Okay,
what do they look like at twenty? At twenty years old? What do they project like to look like at twenty five? That kind of thing as a college coach, and I know this for a fact. As college coaches, they look at speed. It's an important deal because they figure that they can if we get a kid that's got some speed, we can figure the rest out. So it's an important deal.
I mean, it's it's like if you have a fifteen or sixteen year old that's six', eight, right and he's playing, basketball and it's, like maybe he didn't have maybe he's not a great, shooter maybe you can't make free, throws but that build is going to work well in.
COLLEGE i can help him learn how.
To show yes exactly, Exactly.
Scott we support about seventy teams collegiate. Teams we're up eighty nine.
Nine, yeah what what does?
That what does that look like day to day from a tactical standpoint with you and your, team that's, Yeah like you.
Say there's there's eighty nine, teams there's there's fifty five on the men's, side and to get to eighty, nine what's that the thirty four? Four okay on the women's, side and we support them at varying. Degrees we have twelve teams that are elite level and we outfit them head to, toe, headwear bags and accessories, all you, know and then all the clubs that we can put in those golf. Bags then the second level we'll do golf, bags head, covers some travel, covers and a couple other
accessories to outfit their. Team and again as many clubs as we can get into those. Bags you, know the way college athletics is, going it's very much you hear about the power for now with The Big ten and THE sec leading the, way really have tried to make inroads in those two. Conferences we're having pretty good. Success of the sixteen teams in THE, sec fourteen of them
Carry ping golf. Bags so we've got an in. There in The Big, ten which isn't as strong golf, wise we're in with the biggest Brands Ohio, State, michigan And, illinois which historically is the best golf program in The Big. Ten so really proud of that and we're going to you, know try to keep, that keep that. Going and then the. Outliers our go to teams Are Arizona state And Oklahoma.
State the Soul hi family And Ping company as a historic relationship with both, schools and so we use them specifically to test prototype, product different golf bag, designs any specialty stuff that we're going to. Do we go to them first and use them as our test subjects to you, know then we go out to the rest of the rest of the group and take care of them that.
WAY i, mean it feels like a real personal, job you. KNOW i, mean you're you're meeting a young person and then you're kind of guiding them and helping them through the, way hoping eventually they get to a professional level of this. Game AND i, mean not everybody is going to get. There but somebody Like sahith, right who you meet at a young, age junior, golfer collegiate, player and he's now he feels like a part of The ping. Family he
is a part of The ping. Family your relationship has got to be so much stronger than so many peoples with somebody Like sawhith that works Within ping and does it get very personal for?
You it. Does and we're in the relationship, business and what you're trying to do is you're trying to develop a, relationship but you're also trying to develop. Trust you want them to trust, you AND i go back to my experience at that. Age i'm sure you can. Too i'm sure you can. Too when you're an aspiring young golfer and to have somebody take an interest in, you somebody that wants to help, you and somebody that wants you to.
Succeed that's the attitude that we. Take and so you, KNOW i draw back on personal feelings that way and, like, yeah you know, WHAT i had people along the way help. ME i want to give back and try to help these. People and then the thing about it is, is as you guys, know it's only the top one percent that are going to make it. Right and this group that we're talking, about, yes that's the group that we draw from for players that we sign endorsement contracts. With, okay
but there's the rest of. Them they're gonna be in the golf. Business they're gonna, be you, know a college, Coach they're gonna be a club, pro they're gonna be doing you, know, Media they're gonna be doing all kinds of. Things so we want any experience they have with, ping we want it to be a positive. Experience and, then most, importantly once they get out and in the real world and have the purchasing power we want them Buying Ping ping golf clubs because of that positive.
Experience, YEAH i, mean it's a it's a great message coming beyond this, too. RIGHT i, mean in, general it's treating people with a level of respect that even if it doesn't work out per se in terms of what you hope to be or the goal in your, life maybe you work for paying or maybe you are a head pro that feels comfortable with this. Brand so, YEAH i, mean LIKE i, said it just feels it feels like a very personal, Job like it feels like it's probably
an emotional job as. Well And i'm assuming you've had to like weave throughout over the last you, know two and a half decades how to best to approach you Because i'm sure there's certain players that are family to, you and there's certain players that you would have hoped to make it. RIGHT i hope they become pros because you, Know i'm such a big fan of.
Their, Sure and what the cool thing is, is like you, know before we got together for, THIS i was out on the range and the putting green out, there and you, know guys that have had contact with through the years during THE pga. Tour, now whether they're a whether they're a ping guy or. Not, yeah you, know you get
to catch up and chat with them a little. Bit and that's that's the cool, part and that's the relationship, part and that's that's the benefit of the, job is seeing them have success and knowing that you had a hand in helping them get there and have that.
Success, SCOTT i want to transition a little bit to equipment. SIDE i think in the last five years five years or, so we've had maybe a little bit. More we introduced THE pld line and ability to get customized, putters and a big part of that was for the collegiate younger players as well as The Blueprint. Irons talk a little bit about the importance of BOTH pld in Our Blueprint irons in terms of this.
Group, yes, first with THE, pod it certainly filled a hole that we had with the customization of. Things and it's not only you, know paint field colors and and and stamp and engrave initials and names that kind of, thing but the design of putters and the weights and and the looks and where to put the site lines and. Everything it gave us the opportunity to compete with obviously our, competitors but it also enabled us to give the players
something that they. Desired so that's been very. Good are you? Know in our iron categories we've always been, strong but the blueprint t and the blueprint s has raised it to another level and it's it's given us a leg up in that. Area so we've got a lot more iron sets in, play and you, know with blueprints And blueprint t you know there's a lot of split sets, too so we've got something that can fit a work to perform for a wider range of. Players.
Yeah, Nice.
Scott there's a parent listen to this that has a young player that's got a lot of talent or is won a lot of golf. Tournaments what are tips you give to parents that reach out to you that has the twelve thirteen year old that has a dream of playing collegiate, golf that has a dream of being a. Pro what do you tell those people when they reach out to you to give them advice to best kind of navigate that very very very tough.
Situation the first THING i tell them is let them be a. Kid, okay, okay if they're, thirteen let them be. Thirteen they don't need to be eighteen yet they'll.
Get and when you say that is that don't spend eight hours a day on the golf, course, like don't don't be hitting balls to your hands. Bleed it's this can be a part of who you, are but not.
Everything go ahead and play another. Sport please play other, sport preferably a team, sport because you need the experience of working with others versus you, know golf's in a very individual, sport so you need. Both so let them be a, kid and if they have a passion for, it make sure they're fundamentals are sound sound at an early age because it's going to do nothing but help. Them so get, them get them good, instruction and then you, know if you if you have the, means, great they
have to. Compete and then, again if you have the means and they have to, compete, well travel your game has to. Travel you, know very rarely do you have a home game in. Golf you alwa's got to go somewhere. Else so you, know An arizona kid go up To ohio play on. That you know that Bent grass At Kentucky, bluegrass play in somewhere the wind really moves the, ball not a, yeah here where the wind? Does you? Know
the wind's, blown but it doesn't affect. Anything go somewhere where it's, cold and you got to learn how to deal with. That so deal with the elements travel and those kinds of. Things it's gonna better prepare you down the.
Road what ARE i always remember WHEN i was coming up AND i was trying to get get potentially play golf in. COLLEGE i remember a college coach telling my dad one, time if there if their legs on their bags are, Bent i'm, Out, like what are some red flags for you when you were looking at young players and your life come? Out you, know because there are,
obviously i mean club. Throwers i'm assuming you're probably out, On, like what are some things that you as you're evaluating, Talent because, AGAIN i Mean i'm assuming you're working closely with college coaches as, Well, like what are some red flags that young people need to avoid or parents could help their kids hopefully.
Avoid, Yeah, well it's. Funny you know you see a kid and they, struggle they hit a bad, shot, whatever and they have a negative. Reaction, well depending on how negative it, is maybe it's just because they. Care, okay you, know so you got to factor that in bent. LEGS i agree that's not. Good that's not. Good but the thing is, is no no ass, dragon no always, me no MOPy, dopey none of. That you know you're gonna hit a bad. One, Golf Like Ben hogan, Said golf's
a game of. Imperfections you. Know you know how often do you play and you hit every shot.
Perfect i'll tell you this.
GUY i remember a good friend of mine who lives in The phoenix area who's been playing competitive golf for. NOW i mean he's seventy years old, now BUT i mean competitive golf, forever you, Know State open winner and. STUFF i remember he telling me one time WHEN i was probably my. Twenties he, SAID i hit four good shots around and this was the best GOLFER i. Knew AND i remember him telling me, that AND i just thinking of. Myself my expectations are way, off you, know
like WHAT i Think i'm. Doing if this guy's saying it's four good shots And i'll play golf of them all the, time it feels like it has fifty good shots, around you.
KNOW i mean we talk so much about the.
Misses the one thing THAT i do find interesting about young, people AND i like your opinion on, this is it feels like young people are more mature. Now it feels like they're able to handle. Situations not to say everybody, is but you look at these young players coming out of college and how competitive the amateur circuit, is both
the amateur wise and. Professional you See Nick dunlap last year obviously whining as amateur first time since your teammate did it in the early, Nineties like they seem like they can handle these situations so much.
Better you, know just on. That you know That Nick dunlop he won THE Us amateur and TWO Pga tour events in a calendar. Year it's, incredible, unbelievable.
Some would say the hardest golf tournament to win in THE Us, amateur and then he backs it up with a couple of tour.
Wins so back to what you're saying is is that they, are and the really good ones really, are and that's what separates them from everybody. Else the top level. Ones they're advanced maturity, wise and they're advanced their mental, strength and they're they're comfortable with, THEMSELVES i, think AND i think that all goes, together but it's, noticeable and those are the ones that that do separate themselves from everybody.
Else, scott how do you feel when you go visit a SU's new practice? Facility are you.
Get a little jealous that you didn't have that when you're when you guys have been, there, right and it's you, know And i've seen them. All it is the best. One and and obviously the settings nice and, everything but just the. Functionality AND I i have talked to you, Know i've done stuff like this, before talking about the, bird AND i, say you, know every shot is out. There you just have to go out and imagine, it because if you can imagine, it you'll find it out.
There but it's tremendous and AND i, Remember i'll never. Forget this is back in the issue days where it is now where the soccer stadium. Is you guys familiar with the campus down? There kid's where the picture where the soccer stadium is. Now that used to be an open. Field we used to get broomsticks and duct tape golf. Towels those are our pin flags and we'd go step them off and pound them into the. Ground and that's
where we would do our wedge. Practice, yeah there's been a there's been a lot of advancement in uh in. Facilities and to tell you guys the, truth all the top collegiate programs have something like, that and they're investing millions of dollars and it is it's a direct result of the success that some of these kids have because they have that level of training facility and that level of attention to.
Detail, SCOTT i got to ask somebody you missed, on somebody that you were thinking, about you were, evaluating and you, Went i'm not sure about this guy and then they went on or this girl then went on to to be. Incredible mm, gosh if nobody comes to, mind that's. Okay But i'm just, uh you, KNOW i, Mean i'm assuming every college coach has probably had a couple of people where they.
Went, yeah we've all had one that got. Away you.
Know it's, like, man that person was so much better AND i thought they were gonna Be.
NO i can't really think of anybody like. THAT i can't think of that some that that certainly tried to but Didn't, okay didn't didn't get. Them Luke, clanton who's in the field here this, week who you guys are familiar with that. Name he's been tearing it. Up he's one of. Them but that comes with the that comes with the.
Territory it's competitive, company it's competitive.
Business, Yeah AND i tell you, what at the at the the amateur, level it's much much more competitive than it is at this tour. Level, interesting and think about it because at the amateur, level everybody's a free. Agent, here everybody has their stable of, players right that are you, know endorsed to do, So whereas at the ammeter, level everybody's a free. Agent so you're you're fighting and clawing every single, week every single day to hang on to
what you've. Got in a lot of times we find ourselves playing.
Defense, interesting how has just THE nil deals changed your landscape in your?
World?
Uh some some we're involved in it and WHAT nil is It it's a necessary thing and it's not going. Away so eventually we realized we had to get involved in, it and we. Are but what it is is it's it's to let the player know that, hey we leaving. You we want to continue a relationship with you once you get to the next. Level so this is just showing you a little sign of love. That, hey you know when it when it's all said and done and you're ready to turn, pro we want we want to talk and we want to do.
A Deal, scott before we lets you. Go you played With phil at a Su was that?
RIGHT i? Did?
Yeah can you share a story of when you realized how Good Phil mickelson was at? Golf was there a moment you saw it or a shot you saw, it or around of golf that you saw where you, Went this dude's got a different, gear.
A couple different. Things is you, know we would we go out and, play whether it's we're just playing the player or qualifying rounds or practice rounds for tournaments or, whatever and you, know everybody hits and everybody's t. Shot you're all out there within you, know five yards of each, other, Right but then you get up to a part Five, okay you know back in the day five seventy, five five eighty, Five well that's all that's all long part five, right.
Likely unreachable in the early. Nineties, yeah to get there.
And all of a, sudden he's twenty yards in front of. Everybody so where did that come? From and then we were playing at a tournament In Las, vegas and he WAS i was playing in the group right in front of. Him and the last hole was a par five and there's a huge bunker on the left hand, side and it's one of those that's got a really steep face
and it's a part. Five so it goes down across a little, pond and then there's the green and he hits you, KNOW i finish and we're you, know when you're, done you sit behind the green and you wait for everybody to come. In so we're sitting behind the green and he's back up there and you can see him walking and then he disappears because he goes into the.
Bunker, yeah.
And then you see his head pop up to, look and then he goes back. Down then you see his head pop up to look. Again AND i mean you're sitting there thinking he's laying, out and then all of a, sudden you hear the, contact and then you hear you see a little, sand and then where is? It where is? It where is? It and then all of a, sudden like a like a meteor hit the. Earth it just s ball lands on the green about twenty feet from the.
Hole he hit a driver out of that bunker and it Was we actually went back up there later to look, like how the hell did he do? That?
First how did he think about? It second did he pull it?
Off, yeah but back then he was so much better than everybody else at that at that, stage and it's you, know it's no surprise he's going to be in The Golf hall Of.
Fame, WELL i, mean, like you, know you just think about like we're talking about twenty twenty five and every available player that exists in. Golf you can go on social media and see their swings and see what they're able to. Do and to think back to the early, nineties you, know there wasn't video of these. PLAYERS i
mean you saw it. Firsthand you got to see it day in and day out of a player that became arguably the second best player of a generation AND i think probably a top ten top fifteen player of all. TIME i mean it must have been why iiled day in and day out to just see the amazing short game and the ability with the hands and shots like, That like you're talking about where everybody else in the world's hitting eight iron out and they just try to hit a wedge on the.
Green he's so much better everybody. Else and then the kids asked, me the college kids, now they asked, me, like who you, know who's the best you've? Seen filled by Always. Phil, yeah AND i told him just for. Numbers, Wise, okay this guy won eighteen college, tournaments including THREE ncaa. Championships, yeah that's pretty, good, RIGHT.
I, mean you, know AND i mean obviously wins THE Us amateur and wins THE Pj tour. Event is an AMATEUR i mean, yes AND i mean.
It's it's studley. Stuff it's, Crazy, scott the story is.
Incredible we appreciate you kind of sharing some insight into this world THAT i don't think a lot of even like diehard golf fans totally. Understand so we really appreciate the. TIME i appreciate all the hard work you do a.
Thing oh you bet.
You Scott's, soullivan. Everybody this is The ping Proven grounds podcast