The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters. I just love that I can hit any shot.
I kind of want. We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Proving Grounds Podcast. I am Shane Bacon, joined by Marty Jerts and Matthew Pavon is with us. I know the year has been pretty fantastic for you, a big twenty twenty four, obviously getting the win at Torrey Pines. But how has this season been for you?
Yeah, it's incredible so far. I mean, just having the opportunity to play here in America full schedule, it's pretty amazing. And as you said, he could then started the best way, so a lot a lot of tournaments come in, but yeah, so far, it's just incredible.
Age thirty one, You've kind of followed a little different journey than a lot of players on the tour, right kind of. You know, it's quote unquote journeyman on Challenge Tour, deep World Tour. Not a lot of Americans you know, new of you unless where they were falling, you know, international play quite a bit. How much golf had you played in America leading up to your transition joined the tour here in the fall and this year.
I mean not much. The only thing I knew really about America is I came when I was seventeen after high school. I practiced for a year in West Palm. We have a French brother there, Thomas Lovey, who played Radaka, one of the biggest names in the French golf. So I spent some time with him in West Palm, and I get to know a little bit the culture of America.
How big is sports in America, and also how beautiful and great are the facilities to practice, to be fair, and then more and more growing up, got few quality to play. The US Open. Agreement between DP and PGA Tour make me play two times the Barracuda Championship, so yeah, little opportunities to play before, but not many.
I mean you you've kind of had your moments Stateside over the years. You mentioned being seventeen, obviously playing in the US Opening, playing well back in twenty eighteen, I think you had a top twenty five that year. Are you now adjusting to kind of the American lifestyle what do you like about it and what do you miss about France?
Yeah, yeah, it's it's all about learning. It's slightly different, for sure, but I think that country is just such an amazing country for spots and for high performance stuff. The way you guys think, you guys raise your your kids you are raised too, is really different.
But in what way is like? What's different in terms of like that specifically? Because I got two little kids, so I'm inntioned in your thoughts.
It's just so much positivity. Really, it feels like nobody has limits. You guys believe strong, believes dreams big, and this is not what we are teach when we we home and we grow up. So it's it's a little bit different, and I think it's just an awesome way to live.
I mean, you obviously become a professional golfer, that's what a lot of young kids dream of being. How are your parents as you were growing up and you were thinking about competing as a junior golfer and then obviously getting into the professional ranks. How was it personally you going through that as a kid in France?
Yeah, that was nice.
I was.
I am very lucky that my two parents are sports sports guy. My mum is a golf teacher. My dad played football as a professional, was captain of the main team of Bordeaux, won the French championship back back in the days, so we were. I was a lot into sports. They had a lot of positivities and values through sport. I think sports teach a lot of great values for life. And this is the way I grew up. And obviously
it got me a little bit into competition. Competition mind so no, was just the right way to grow up for me.
How did how did your parents, being both in sports and coaches, helped formulate how you approach your practicing, structuring your time. I know in your interview after you want a toy, you talk a lot about thinking your team. You know, so who is on your team and what does that look like right now? In terms of you know, training, fitness, mental side of things. How do you how do you approach all that?
Yeah, this is this is the thing I really changed over the last three years. Where when I started on tour, I didn't have a lot of sponsors and I kind of was a bit scaled to really invest all the money I had at that time into a team. But this is definitely what you have to do if you want to get the best out of your game. And I slightly sorry to be a team. I have an American physical trainer, Ben Sheer, who has a right a
Cup players and Majors winner. My coach Jamie go also write a cup players, and like six or seven guys back in back in Europe. We are three playing on the PGA Tour putting coach which come from Norway. So I have a lot of international Yeah it's really international, but you know in friends, like the game is slightly growing, and I think for now maybe we don't have all
the right people to teach everything. You know, we have good golf coaches, I'm sure about that, but maybe we are a little bit young into i don't know, into patting or into physical training or whatever, especially for golf. And because you don't have time to take people and try to grow all together, I've really decided to invest off what's the best year in America and in different other countries.
When you're building a team. To Marty's point, how do you go I'm always amazed by this, like how do you go about it? How do you find the trainer? How do you find the coach like are you asking other players who they are work with? Like how does that go about? As you said, it's been a big part of your journey last.
So the thing is, I'm really interested about performance, and when I see people playing great, I try to see what they do great and where they improved the most and stuff like this. And for my swing, I was, I mean, I am a faith player. I always played
fade and I was missing left a lot. And I saw that guy Jamie Off and this Sullivan at that time write a cup player hitting super beautiful faith and at a lot of great faith players like Brendon Stone at that time, and also Lee Houghton, guys one on tour and been in the top hundred and even more top fifteen the world. So I was like, okay, that's the type of guy who shaped the ball left to right, so I might have to ask him to see my swing.
And this is how we started. Ben Sheer, coach of Victor Perez, best French guy at that time, one on tour two or three times I think close to being the Ryder Cup had that that bad COVID year who stopped him. But same I talked to a lot to victor because his body of mine and uh, he saw
changed on his physical physical training with Ben. So got to Ben and then putting I saw like I just look on my computer, who who are the best part on tour and tried to see if there is a tendency in between the coach they have and stuff like this, and little by little, this is how I create like a team in the last three years.
Marty, this is like professional research.
With this guy.
Let's go with that exactly. Let's know some patterns here. That's great. So how how long? I mean, obviously you you you got your win wired to wire win at the end of the last year, end of twenty three, the victory this year, When did you start putting those pieces in place with your team and start seeing some of the you know, the different results come out of that.
Yeah, it went like, uh slowly but surely. Two years ago I had a season on tour get back to Race to Dubai finish like fifty years or something. Then the year after I got like forty years. So was improvement. And we always felt like I was closed and capable to win a tournament, but before you actually do it, you don't really know. And this is what I was
missing last the last few years. And last year I was having like an average year Reaverage, like pretty close to the same same resort that I had the past few ones, and we were feeling we were getting closed. And finally that wind drops, and it kind of gives you freedom in your mind, give freedom to your staff because we all know that we are working in the right direction. We have more, you know, certainties about the work we've put on, and I give you just freedom
to everybody. And then I since then I kind of keep rolling.
Matt, tell us a little bit about I think one thing that we find interesting. We've seen this with Matt Fitzpatrick is the cross handed chipping. So tell us the story of how that came to be. It was fun watching you help some of those amazing up and downs a toy earlier this year.
Yes, So the thing is last year, as an amateur, I had yips. I couldn't chip anymore. I was like thirty years in the French ranking and eight hundred in the world as an amateur, so pretty far far down below everybody. So I was almost close to quit golf because I was I was sure that without any chipping, you can't really compete as a high level. And just before the Q School on the app Store, which is the third division in Europe, I was like, okay, let's
try to find something or I just quit. And what years is, by the way, twenty fourteen or fourteen, And I started chipping like one handed, and I was like, okay, that's better. I don't have yips. But it's like one time show. What I'm long when it's straight is what I'm left once I'm right. So it's like two average. And I was like, okay, I put reverse. I'm going to try to in padding is really close to a
bump and run with an eight iron. So I started with an eight iron with the same grape as my pudding and I hit a few shots and I was like, okay, I'm not scared to hit the ground. I'm not scared to the contact. I don't see any movements in my hands or whatever. And it started like this, good with the aid, went to the wedge. Good with the wedge,
fifty eight. Good with the fifty eight. I was like, okay, no more fear, so open the face, close the face, draw the ball, flop it the different lines, tight grain against everything, and I was fine, and all of a sudden I had again that's the world freedom. I had some freedom because I wasn't scared to miss a grain and before every time I had the irons to play, I was marching away from the fire because if I was short sighted, it's pretty much a boggie right away.
I wasn't scared anymore to play the path fives in two.
Because would you would you lay up on purpose just so you didn't.
Have to chick. I was looking, I was aiming to some of the trips sometimes because in the bunkers I was fine. But if I was missing, if I was missing my shot in two on the part five on the tie line, it could be one fat one thing to put and you end up with a six. Right, So it was Yeah, it was tricky, and also being having so much relief from that fears, from those fears, I I just played with so much freedom Since then.
Marty, have you ever done it? I know you're a guy that tinkers around. Have you done cross it before? Because I do feel like it does spin. I think it spins better if you ever give it a try. Do you never messed around with it?
Yeah?
I just just a few times you know, but but not seriously. But I'm now I'm tempted. It's one of those things. Now we loved Shane, and I love coming on and interviewing all of you guys because we end up going back and try and stuff on our own.
But it's nice. I mean, as you said, I think to be fair on really I'm not talking about stuff, but really on some some really easy things and just pop up the ball in the Yeah, I think you can really have a lot of thin compared to H left left right now?
Have you ever gone back? Have you ever gone back to see what it looked like the other way?
No, because to be fair.
I don't want to see it.
I'm starting to mastering it more and so I don't want to see how it's like texting an next girlfriend.
I'm like, they're doing.
It is it is. I have less fear than before, so I can wedge because before I was also very scared on two shots about like forty fifty yards. Now I kind of play the normal, so it's fine, but I won't I won't ever go back to uh normal.
For the every day golfer. We now have a club for that called the Chipper.
Yeah.
Heavy lightweight, you can do crosshanded putting, and so yeah, you got you got every the listener has some options out there.
Yeah, how did you learn English? I'm always interested about this with international players because a you obviously got to learn another language, and but you've got to feel comfortable enough doing stuff like yes, when did you learn it? How did you learn it? And when did you start to feel comfortable enough to speak publicly?
Yeah, I think it's just high school. I think also that's bad because I'm just shooting at my country. But I think the way we learn English in France is probably not the best. It's really like, you know, theory, it's like learning a lot of words, but not really talking and using. So I think it kind of sucks because you have to practice it. You have to talk, you have to use it. It's just of just learning
lessons and writing down, writing, you know, on paper. But I think I had good basics, and after I went to America for a year when I was seventeen, and when you're kind of alone in the new country, there are no way you can escape, so you have you can't learn it, No, you have to learn it. You have to talk to people at least trying, and this is by trying and making mistakes that you become better.
It's like in golf and everything, and this is the way I learned it more and more, and afterwards, when you become professional and you try so much, the only language you really talk is English.
I was thinking about your country, specifically with golf, and I was thinking about how old you must have been in ninety nine during that Open Championship. I'm assuming you were six seven years old. What was it like consuming the Vandervelt experience and what did that do for you in terms of wanting to continue to play golf and get obviously into the competitive side.
Yeah, I mean I wasn't looking at the TV at that time. I wasn't really into golf. I really have a look on one app of what happened with Jean, like only maybe ten years ago. But yeah, I mean, it is really sad to see finished like this, But at the same time it's also inspiring because what he has achieved this week was pretty big and we don't
have any French golfer major winners so far. Yeah, and the guys who get close like Jean and Tomas Leave also lost to pay off against Ernie els is really inspiring, and it is really those guys who drives you. Yeah.
Now I want to go back a little bit to your chipping in and look at your wedges right, and your your wedge setup is a little unique compared to other tour players because you play a fifty eight degree right and then you play a fifty two bent to fifty one. So I think a lot of folks would look at that, including myself. A boy, that's a big gap.
And then you have more clubs down at the bottom end of your bag, which we'll talk about, right, So have you always played kind of a fifty two to fifty one and then a fifty eight And do you feel like you're you have the ability to control your speed and your your your distances to be able to, you know, cover any gaps that might have as a you know, relative to other players that have you know, a forty eight fifty two fifty six sixty for example.
Yeah, that's a good question. I thought a lot about maybe adjusting this. It's just the way I grew up. I always I grew up the last fifteen years using just a fifty two fifty eight, So you get more and more comfortable with two clubs. I've been trying a little bit of fifty six in the middle. Just get something a little bit different, like fifty to fifty six
and fifty eight or sixty. And the thing is, it felt like I had almost too much options, so I didn't know which shot I should choose, Like should I play a little fifty six or a full fifty eight or stronger fifty eight or strong fifty six or small
fifty two. And I was like, same for the chipping, should I use the fifty two bump and run or should I just play a fifty six or I was a bit confused, and I was like, I have too much options, which sometimes great because when you're on the cheap, it's either the fifty two or either the fifty eight. It's either I or low, let's say. So, I don't know, it's just the way I felt it. And I always like to to have like a highbrid all three iron
or even both in my bag. So it might change, because I'm sure there are tournaments where it's it's better to have three wedges, yeah, but for now, I just feel comfortable this way. Yeah.
I mean it's just so interesting because again, I mean, I feel like four and even five wedges at times have become popular on the PGA tour, And to kind of simplify it, I do see players a lot of the time, and I'm not talking about pro players, but you know amateur players, even good amateur players, and you almost see them always carrying the two or three wedges
up to hit a chip shot around the green. And I think sometimes the commitment is tough to really feel like you know exactly what kind of shot you're saying, and you're simply going this club's the low one, this club's the high one. You know exactly what you're gonna what club your pullem when're hitting certain shots.
Yeah, it's more like this. But as I said, I think I might go to fifty six sorry, at some point, because I think it is really nice in the traps. To be fair, fifty to fifty six is really nice club in the traps. And also, like for some wedging, give you like some like good numbers, one or two good numbers, yes, so so yeah, it might change. It depends. It will depend probably on the golf course I play.
You're crosshanded chipping at what yardage do you switch over? Because Matt Fitzpatrick says it's right, like exactly fifty yards, So yeah, it's pretty.
Close to Matt. I think the furthest I practice is like sixty sixty carry, but I don't to be fair, when it goes to sixty, I'm already back with the normal, normal grip. But yeah, most of the time is like I used to practice like five balls every distances every ten. So I go fifty eight twenty thirty, forty yards and then it was fifty two with I'll do again forty yards and then fifty sixty, and then from there I stop. I just go back to a fifty eighteen normal normal grip.
I always love to ask players kind of goals for the year. I mean, you obviously have've already won on the PGA Tour, you played Greater August, the National. Did you have to readjust some of the goals for the season after you did so much early in the year.
Yeah, it's not we we haven't really adjusted anything. It's just that I set up goals when I started the year, and I tried to go down the list and make them all.
How many have you checked off far?
I think almost almost all just hanging up. I wanted to get a win either here in America or back in Europe if I come back play later this year. So it's done. I wanted to make top seventy on the FedEx, so I think I'm pretty pretty okay with that. I wanted to make a cut in the Major, cut in the Major. So yeah, it's pretty much pretty much all done. But after I have more goals about like process goals and those ones, I'm never really done because I really wanted to put more work and get better
preparation before tournaments, so this never stops. So yeah, Actually, I think after Hawaii, I had nice top ten there and I said to my to my team that one of the goals I wanted to put in the list two is was to be to become Rookie of the Year. So that would be that would be something I'd be chasing till the end of.
There a good race right now for Rookie of the Year. I bet if you can't make some of the players, a lot of first time winners.
Right yeah, it's I think it's it's great even if you're not like twenty two anymore, you're thirty one and rookie of the PJ TO it's a nice goal. That would be really awesome to get it. And I mean, yeah, the race is on with a lot of great players checking up super nice player. He's the guy who was sitting right next to me at the integration weekend with the PGATO in Hawaii. So yeah, it's it's just it's just fun. It's it's a fun race.
Yeah. Now, how much do either you or your team are into like statistics? Is it? Do you guys deep dive on that front? Strokes gains stuff in different areas of the game. Are you more focused on your process, goals and your results or you factor in that in.
Look, I'm really I'm really more into process with my team. Try to practice the best, very try to be very efficient. But the starts are here. I have a guy who does my studs in France for me, collects all my putts low I mean low side, high side, long shot, whatever, collects everything. So it's more like a tool that I use with my team to see where my game is, if we see any trends, and how we can adjust them.
For example, putting is really important for me because the infos we got just give them with my I just give them to my putting coach and we tweak the programs because I'm the guy who every Monday, every Tuesday, every Wednesday, I have the same exercises to do. So Monday I have fiveise exercises to do. It's like one really basics, checking aim, bold, start, and then after I compete, it's a lot of games where you have to hold puts. So every Monday, same program, every choice to Tuesday the
same program, and Wednesday same program. And depending on the stats, we kind of just like, have I missed a lot of shot puts? Have I struggled from far distances? Have I missed a lot of but low or high sight? And this is how we we tweak programs, and we we are just from tendencies.
We see what's travel like been like this year? I mean, are you traveling? Are you are you hanging out with players that are international players, European players. Do you have guys who play practice rounds with each and every week or you kind of seeing who wants to go out and play? How's that been this year on the PGA tour.
Yeah, I didn't know what really to expect. The thing is I had the same schedule that my two French fellow players, Barjon and Perez and by winning early, I didn't I didn't share a lot of time with them, so I got a a bit alone. But anyway, on my schedule this year, I really tried with my staff to make sure at every tournament I had someone with me, so either family, comment, either punning coach, either trainer, either fisio or whatever to make sure I'm never alone.
Gotcha makes sense? How about Uh, we haven't asked you about the Olympics yet. I can only imagine you were talking about goals for twenty twenty four. That was one of the very very high feels like you're you're headed that way, but a I mean, you know, you think about Ryder Cup years for your European players, and you think about I gotta make the Ryder Cup. But have an Olympics in France and you're playing the way you've
been playing. What is that like? Kind of imagining that moment as you kind of get prepared for later this year.
No, no, this is this is unbelievable. I can be I can't be proud enough to be to be part of this Olympics is huge. I watched them since I'm kid. I even had the PlayStation game when when I was when I was younger, was a tea athen Yeah, yeah, I know, two thousand and something. But yeah, so we we grew up with this, watching it on TV with my parents, my brother. So it's just just so cool to to be part of it and also part of
the French you know, athletes. We have so many great, great athletes with lots of medals, so being part of that family is pretty special, and even more when you're going to represent your country on your own.
Sorry, what's the golf course like there? And what do you what do you think the world's gonna think of? Just the atmosphere for the Olympics this year.
I'm not sure. I don't know, like how big could be the crowd over there. The thing is, the golf is a little bit out Paris, so it's not like the best place in the world to us, I would say a golf tournament. But the golf course itself is awesome. I mean, we had the Ryder Cup over there. It's really really nice golf course. It's it's tough. It's gonna be a very good test for sure. The only bad thing for me is like I never played great over there.
Maybe it's six six French Open and made the cut once. Different, so this is yeah, it's different. It's Olympics and no cuts. So this is for show one I'm not gonna miss. But no, I think it's gonna be also playing different because it's in August. In the past few years we've been playing the French Open a little bit later in the year, more towards September and October when it's wet. So no, I think it's gonna be it's gonna be nice. I think all the player are gonna like the place.
You better hit it straight, right, that's the goal there. Yeah, that's a golf of course, you better hit it on.
A straight Yeah.
You have a lot of water and that stretch fifteen fifteen to eighteen, it's it's pretty tough, probably one of the toughest in the world.
I would say, man, I want to talk a little bit about your gear, your driver. One thing we've seen with it that our drivers become very forgiving is that players can play them longer. We're a big fan of doing this with our everyday golfers at the Ping Proving Grounds when they come in with our max Max ten k that now, because it's so forgiving you can play it a little bit longer. I'm very interested looking at your specs off your driver. You play at forty six
inches yep, right at the limit. How did that come to be? And was that an idea you had when your team where you're trying to get a little bit more speed, a little bit more distance. What's the story behind forty six inches? Is your spect?
So it started with just training to get the middle of the face. I don't know why, but at the moment in my curry, I had a lot of heels. Yeah, So we started to cut the driver to get a different, different club and try to get more center shot. And in the end it was almost the opposite. I was still doing heils and heels and hills, so I kind of get back to a normal driver, started to hit it better. And two years ago I was just trying
to it's always a club that I've hit it pretty straight. Uh, And we were looking for a little bit more speed, and I was like, Okay, should we try a different shaft or should we try I don't know, just shutting the face a little bit because I was trying. I was I felt like I was swinging the club and in the end the option we had is just to lengthen the driver to create a little bit more speed and not touching the loft all the all the shaft, and I found out that it was It was perfect
for me. It got a little bit more more speed. And which is more impressive is that I started to hit the ball more in the middle of the face.
Yeah, so you're using the length a little bit. You started to get to work on your centeredness of contact. I think one other interesting thing you do is you play the driver in our flat positions, so it's three degrees flats in our flat dot position. So hopefully by now, Shane, the listeners know that the PGA Tour average driver length is not forty four and a half like I used to be. Yeah, we got winners like that. You're playing it right at forty six inches is quite fun Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, As I said, I don't know, it's funny. Like I struggled for years to really get the middle of the face with the driver, even if I was hitting the boat quite straight, and all of a sudden we kind of had more length to get. First, we wanted to get a little bit more speed, yeah, and a little bit more distance, and then Indian. It ended up that I had more speed and a better contact, so there was it was the right things to do.
I know, you're a tattoo guy. We got a tattoo in mine coming up soon, like a new tattoo. You're gonna throw one up, like at the end of the year or something like that.
Yeah, maybe, yeah. Olympic rings. Yeah, so that's been popular from that, Yeah, yeah, it is, it is popular.
Yeah, So where are we going to go with that?
It's tough. I don't know yet. I don't know yet.
It's a moment by moment thing.
Yeah, no, I don't know yet. I got like not many empty spots now, so I might go down on the legs.
Now, when did you When did you get into tattoos and why were you into them? Was it a young young age thing?
I think, because yeah, definitely not something who comes with a golf player. But my dad, as I said, was a soccer player. I don't know, it comes maybe from that side. Every soccer player back in Europe is tattooed. So it started like this and I don't know, you it's really addictive you make one. It was like more a teenager thing. I mean, I was twenty two, but
it was more a teenager things. Let's say you get one and you're like, yeah, I like it, and then I'm gonna go out another one, and then again another one, another one, and he never stops.
Do you have a favorite one?
No, I don't, to be fair, Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, actually I have My favorite one is a I have one on my end call. It's my son's name and is the time of his birth. Very very that's the one.
Yeah, very cool, very cool. Mattie. Well, tell us a little bit about your first trip to Augusta. You finished, you finished time for twelve awesome week that week. What was some of your favorite memories and how did the experience of playing there compared to maybe what you imagined?
Right, Yeah, so yeah, that's that's special week. Which is crazy is like I went there the week before practiced two days with Shane Lowry and I was really surprised because it was looking so open. Like I I arrived at the clubhouse, went on the first team and I was like, Wow, it's really open. I can see the second green down below. Everything looks soap and you can
see the holes, you know, on the other trees. You can see everything, and really surprised obviously by the hills and the slope that when when you go up on the first team you see the first and you're like, wow, okay, there is like that miss massive ball and goes up. So yeah, it was it was really special. And Shane was laughing on me and said, yeah, wait, wait, wait
till next with your see is not that open. And now it was totally true because when you show them on Monday, it's already i don't know, like more than twenty thousand people that day and you can't see any holes. It's just like full of people right to left and it makes the thing much more tighter and you and just an awesome place. It's really really surprising. The first
day of the practice round is really surprised myself. So it was good to go the week before get a little bit of, you know, taste, because the Monday was was really special. It was like you know when you bring a kid to Disneyland. It was exactly the same, the same feeling. But yeah, I mean that was that was a crazy week. You can really feel that place
is special. When you hit the second shot into eleven from you town on the corner eleven second shot, then twelve and thirteen You're like, wow, okay, this is this is like the coolest three holes in the world. Yeah.
What I find so interesting about players at the Masters is you guys aren't going to go to merch tents at normal golf events. You guys aren't gonna go shopping at normal golf events. But at the Masters, especially at first Masters, you might go shop. You're gonna buy stuff for your family. Did you shop?
I did. Yeah.
Was the receipts substantial? Well, all your Tory money.
Not a very small amount of my Tory money, but it was.
Yeah.
I mean, you have so many six to buy. I don't know how many flags you get, like twenty thirty flags. Everybody wants one, so flags are big. Then you get inside and you see all the different shirts you can get. You have the all the different sweater, different style like sporty, you get the nice cashmi, you got everything. Then you go to club out those different logos, special ones, tea pocket, like a book with the way I write my notes with the Master's logo. It never ends up.
I wonder. So like idiots like me that go to the Masters have friends that text and say buy me a shirt. Do you get friends that text you and say buy me this, buy me that.
Yeah, I have friends and know the only friends I have everyone like.
A random number on your phonel I don't know who this is.
You have guys you havn't full ten years and say oh, can you grab me a flag when you go back. I was like, well, yeah, okay, I got a flag.
Well, we really appreciate the time. It's been great chatting with you. It's been fun watching you play this year. I mean the game has been solid, not obviously not just at Torrey Pines, but kind of throughout the season. And we'll be rooting for you not just the rest of the year but into the Olympics. That's gonna be really really special. So thanks for the time.
No, no pleasure anytime. And uh yeah it's a it's really real pleasure to be on that being femini.
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