The guys from paying.
They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters. I just love that I can hit any shot. I kind of want.
We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds podcast. I'm Shane Bacon. That is Marty Jertson, my man in somewhat matching purple? Is that fair to say? Derek Dominski joins us. Now, how are you doing, buddy?
I'm great?
How are you doing great? Excited for this podcast? We mean it to have you on for a bit. I know you guys have known each other for a long long time. I've been following you for a good amount of time on social media, but as we know, its social media, I've never met you in human form till today.
It's felt like we've played a few rounds, gone out a few times, but it's beneficial today.
Here we go, Marty, I would like you to start the pod by giving us a breakdown of Derek's golf game start to finish. I know you've seen it up close over the years.
Off the tee. He's got a fade every single time, one hundred percent of the time, reliable, reliable with the metal iron game is solid and trending. Shipping needs improvement or what shipping is this little weak spot? But his ball striking so good he hardly ever needs it on the course.
Is it is it weird to go?
Well?
Is it weird to go from like a good player that you know, lives in Arizona and competes to becoming this like internet guy that people know of because of their short game. What has that been like to see random people come up to you and talk to you about chipping and pitching at an airport or something.
Yeah, so it hasn't come to that, I guess, thankfully. But I've known Marty for a long time. We've become good friends. He's roped me into ping, which is what I wanted the whole time. I was like, oh no, don't don't help me out with paying I can lead me to this, no please now.
But I'm just a golf junkie.
So that's I remember the first time we met was at the Gallery North Course and it was I think for the PPC or so, and you were just out there grinding. It's super hot. Marty's out there on the back of the range. I'm like, you know, I know he works with paying. I want to introduce myself. I've seen him on TV. He's like, you know, major championship guy, and then we start talking like mac O Grady and he's just I'm like, this is my guy right here, and I think you played well the next day? Yeah
I did not, but we had great times. And here we are now.
Yeah, at the bird, Marty, this is an unbelievable If you're watching this on YouTube, by the way, you've looked behind us and you see why they issue teams are as good as they are. I mean, I have been dreaming of the moment I get to go out there and hit some pitch shots here in a little bit. This is the real deal. So shout out to ASU for letting us use this and Papa go a place. I played a lot of golf, Marty, you played a.
Lot of golf.
Annoyingly, you take like six months off of golf and then play in the Papago Monday game and shoot like sixty five.
I'm gone of yourmo It is fun. I you know, I get Mondays off with the day job, so you know, New Year's Memorial Day, Labor Day, my three days. I played the Monday Skins game here.
It's it's is it is it the best Skins game in it in Phoenix.
It's still and it's the I think it's the longest standing. It's been going on for a long time. So yeah, it is fun, it's reliable.
Derek. Have you spent a lot of time in Phoenix playing golf?
Yeah?
I come up here quite a bit, some for instruction, but we both play and essentially every Southwest Section event, so I'm up here quite a bit. And when I can team with this guy, I'm not saying we've gone undefeated, but the record books would show that. So it's a lot of fun playing with a tour player and I just ride them and make a few chips and punts.
Can you just kind of walk us through your journey to this point, because again, I mean, you've got a great social media following. It's a lot of fun to kind of follow what you do. I learned stuff from
your social media, which is something I don't think. I say a lot about a lot of social media's out there, but you know, I mean you've kind of established yourself as this thing online and Now, obviously you've got a great relationship with Ping, So can you just kind of walk us through your journey through golf at this point?
Yeah, for sure. So I grew up in Minnesota. It's where I'm born and raised. Family's there, and I grew up with a golfing family. My brother, my dad, my mom all played and we grew up in Elkriver, Minnesota. The team was extremely competitive, so we'd have like a hundred kids try out.
For the golf in Minnesota.
Yeah, so if you couldn't shoot like upper seventies, you couldn't make varsity.
Like the JV team was shooting like low eighties.
So after always being the shortest hid in basketball, even though I loved it, after skateboarding and then not really being that successful, went into golf and started to shoot kind of low nineties, upper eighties. This is about in the eighth grade when I got the first golf book I ever got in eighth grade, the DELV the dath Pels Short Game Bible. So not a quick read. It was more of a more of a Bible than maybe the Bible, I guess you could say.
But I got really.
Into it and what I found is, you know, it wasn't the biggest guy besides my looks now, so I didn't hit it that far, and I knew I had to find a way to score better. So reading that book and getting in short game and then really seeing for me, we would play these nine hoole matches and I would miss every green and sometimes still do, but I would I could get up and down nine times to shoot like even parts is incredible.
It was kind of the short game guy a.
Little bit then, so it's always had a special place in my heart. Got into the golf business, golf industry, and then as I started teaching again, I teach all areas, but short game definitely has a special place, and that's kind of why it is so special to me.
I guess, Derek, what about your You know, some of the funnest things is to watch it in person, and I've experienced this, others have seen online. What is your fa When did your fascination begin with spinning the ball? One of the things that you can do that I were still trying to figure out, quite frankly, is how much you can spin some certain shots, especially very shots that fly very short. Yeah, which is a hard thing
to do. I can outspin you with a full gap wedge, but I can't do it with some of these shots you hit around the green. When did your fascination with spin begin.
Yeah, that's interesting, I think, you know, like back in the day. I remember it was all you'd see it on TV, and that was kind of back in the late nineties when when they were playing like you know.
The Ballatta balls. Oh, I want to do that on a full swing.
Even so, I got my snake eyes wedge, and you know, I looked for that titleist DT spin ball. It said DT Spin so you know it had to spot. It's in the name, right, So then you know, it's like ninety yards out. We find a day it's like blowing thirty into me and I'm like, man, I'm just gonna I want to spin this so bad.
So we kind of like explore that way.
Never really did anything with it, And then as I started to kind of teaching it in a short game, I just started to kind of hit some shots because I really used to not spin the ball. So it's not like I've always just been the spin guy. I was kind of grew up in that. Dave Pel's somewhat Phil Mickelson hingein hold, not that that can't spin it, but to kind of use my hands like I currently do. Was kind of this process where I started hitting some shots.
I recorded a video that's on my website maybe eight.
Years ago or so, and I could kind of make it stop and I was like, oh, this is so so cool.
But then after that, really what made it take off was when I saw Tigers shot at the valspar. There was this video that went viral online and it was Tiger at about thirty yards out hits this high shot. It's like, okay, cool, like it's going to be hind stop, but it like checks and spins right in back and.
I was like, no way, this is crazy.
So I reach out to a ton of people and a lot of them were like, oh, it's easy, you just do this, and we.
Are you like emailing people calling people.
Social media at this point, right, So social media I probably started in maybe ten years ago or just just short of up and that's where the only one person took me seriously, Chris Como. So then at that point in twenty twenty is when we kind of had this back and forth talking about this shot, and then I just took it on as a challenge to really just see what there was, and that's it'd be waking up in the middle of the night trying stuff like all
crazy golfers do. And at some point it kind of worked out and I'm sitting on country.
With the guys.
So Derek, this is the shot Tiger hit. He hit and he's in the gallery, right, Is that the one they know?
So the first one was.
At the Vallisbourgna practice around I think when he finished second to maybe Paul Casey, yeah, I think. And then the one I think you're referring to, he hit another one like in the Zozo. I think it might've even been before he won, But.
It's in the Zozo.
He's putting on this clinic and you could probably YouTube this is Zozo clinic.
I mean, this is super nerdy. I think I watched this shot yesterday just.
In all these like oohs and ahs, like he's fighting all these shots. But the first shot he hit, he taps this ball out there fifteen yards, brings a ball and hits this high shot that spins, spins like all like hits the ball and everyone's like whoa, and it just sounds incredible.
So you mentioned Tiger a couple of times. Who are your kind of spin idols if you will?
Yees, So Tiger Woods is number one.
When I do my shots, I use the bridge Stone ball, Tiger's ball, but it has to be the one that says Tiger on it where he's on the cover, because it just motivates me. I guess, so I would say he's number I would say he's number one.
You throw the ball back to your assistant if they give you a non Tiger ball, just give you the right ball.
What are you doing?
I tape up my fingers.
No, I don't, but I use that ball and it doesn't make a lot of sense, but that ball is, like, you know, the spinniest ball. And Marty's helped me as well as Eric and all of ping. Right, So I think that's kind of why we're such a great partnership as well, is we have these questions that you, Eric, the whole staff are actually interested in. Right when I reached out to all these people, they're like, oh, it's just easy.
He plays this and he does this.
And I reach out to a lot of great, shortky people even and they kind of dismissed it. I'm like, no, I think there's something here, yeah, and Coma was like, let's.
Go, let's have a combo. Yeah, all right, So Tiger's one. Who else do you have on your list of the maybe not even the people you look up to in terms of spin, but like modern day golfers that you're impressed by with the way they can kind of manipulate spin and loft and things like that.
Geezus, just a ton of players, right, So I would say to some amount like Tiger's protege, like Justin Thomas, just and any of the shots, right.
The one that joking Neeman hit.
My buddy Matt Everie was on the call and he was like, whoa you know, I think you might have been on that live with them.
JT.
It's funny because I'm a huge fan of like Steve Stricker, who kind of does some of the opposite stuff.
He can still spin it, yeah, but he's like a short game idol.
Just all these you know, as I've taught and started to learn maybe why certain players can do things and really started to understand more than just a model, but.
Like, why does Steve stricker stuff work? Why does Sergio Garcia' stuff work? Why does these certain shots work. It's just kind of helped me, I guess overall.
So it's it's almost more about studying process than player. It's almost more like how are they able to do X, Y and Z.
Yeah, I think that's where I've gotten to where I am. It's it's learning and I've had some great resources, but also just seeing like why does Luke Donald do this? Why does a Brett Rumford do this? Why does Steve Stricker move this way? Why does certain people who do certain things, you know, have certain body movements? And then what are they trying to accomplish? So it's it's it's an interesting puzzle that I just I just love so much.
Derek. One of the things I think I admire about you is is you know you talked about Stricker chipping with a certain technique. It's different than Tiger and JT and some of the other players out there. How have you distilled what the tour players do, They're different techniques. I think I've seen you use the term long arc, short arc right, and how do you take those in teach your every day your club golfers. You know, your your mid to high handicaps.
I think where that has really helped me is just understanding when someone has a certain pattern what their struggles would tend to be. I e. When people are told to be wide and shallow in general, they're going to be underplane. The whole club, the whole system is moving so far off, and I'll be like, well are you are you hitting it fat and thin a bunch like oh, how do you know? So just kind of knowing what their tendencies might might be, and then we can help improve them, just just with.
A shot or a skill.
Right, So if they're super wide, low and inside, we can somewhat quantify it. And it's not quite the simple, but it can be. It's like, hey, I need you to use some amount of wrists and hit me like a risty slice. That can tend to neutralize them. Contact improves, they can see a quick improvement more than hey, let's shorten that arc.
Let's let's increase this. You can make it real simple that way.
Okay, cool?
What are some misconceptions about Because I was chatting with you earlier out here kind of like messing around with some wedges and stuff, and like I think every day people get taught that lower on the face spins more. You've got to hit it high, to spin the golf ball, Like what are you figuring out running into solving the problems of about spin that maybe you thought one way, Yeah that now you think the total opposite.
Yeah, so that would all those questions go to Eric Hendrickson and everyone, because even me, I'm learning new stuff all the time, right, and I'm sure you know I've got bad information out there. Right, It's like, oh, okay, well this is kind of calm and knowledge. We think that maybe this produces this. It's like, okay, I've kind of seen that. And then also there'll be things that I can take to Eric and Marty or it's like, hey, I can hit on this part of the club. This
tends to do this and they can explain why. It's like at this point, again they're so smart. It's like, here's what I'm seeing. You tell me why, Like I don't really know, but I can do this. I don't know really how, but you guys.
Know, I yeah, I think And what why Derek and Chris the rest of our ambassadors do and our players they you know, we had Joe Mayo on a while back. Is that push? They're pushing us a lot, and when we don't know the answers. It means they're observing something in real life. We need to try to figure out and then try to feed that big back into just that understanding of golf physics. And Derek brought up a good point that, hey, maybe I have bad information out there,
you know, in the scientific world. It's kind of you could say that, you know, facts have a half life because you can level up your NOL.
Absolutely, I mean, and and maybe golf is the biggest sport about that, right, Yeah, because you think about the stuff you and I've talked about on this podcast that was true ten years ago.
That is the good opposite these distance versus accuracy and hitlo on the face and things of that nature. So this has been great to have Derek on on board to push us come in and help do some of those fun projects, try to crack the code on those spin shots.
Yeah, and also the fact that you guys have the spinniest wedge makes me look pretty good.
Can we call that science friction?
Science friction? Lots of compliance? If you know what I'm saying.
How did the relationship start with Ping? Like, how did that conversation begin?
Always?
You know, Marty's always helped me out, like doing some driver fittings, like he would always take care of me super nice. Every time I had an experience of it paying, it was like incredible they got you know, it's like I'm hitting driver bad and they're like, we'll try this. I'm like, wow, I didn't. I didn't know I could hit it a little better and further. So Marty was
just helping me send it. And then at that point working with Chris qualifying for that Shriner's event, kind of this perfect storm and then being up the road and I know what paying stands for and everything, so it is I'm just kind of like, oh no, don't don't help me out, or you know, like sure, I guess I'll go hang out at bing. So it really was this hope, hope that it would work God, and yeah, it's it's it's great.
Derek was a good case study shame. We've talked about that on drivers. There's a relationship between distance and accuracy. Derek drives it very straight straight, but he's self admitted not the longest player out there. So what we did with him is we put him in our Ulti cb X flex Cheft Super Counterbalance right up to the forty six inch limit. So that's a case where we actually went longer because he drives it so straight and put a premium on getting more well.
Remember the first time though it was forty eight, Oh, it was over when it was When it was to forty I'm like, Marty, give it to give it as long as I can.
I don't, I don't care.
It doesn't matter.
And then what I do. I put it right in the back. You're like, you don't have to play this. It was like at week up, I'm like, Marty's going straight in.
Yeah, It's like it's like there's no there's no barrier, it's super easy.
Yeah, it's like, of course this is going straight in.
It's great, Derek to you know, your your interest on social media has led you to I'm assuming some doors you probably didn't know you'd be knocking on or walking through. Tour players have come to you for advice, collegiate players, LPGA players. Who was the first tour player to reach out and you worked with? And how has that been personally for you to have people you see on TV and professional golfers want to pick your brain about golf.
Yeah, so I've worked with some like Tucson people in the past, Runnie Black's a good friend Don Pooley, but then like getting to know it and become friends with
Max Homma, you know, a mutual friend. Seeing him when COVID really started is when we kind of started working, and then just watching him grow and you know, obviously with his coach, Mark Blackburn, he's got him so dialed in and just kind of being a sounding board for a while and working with him there and then not to have a little success like for him and we've both seen it. He just the hardest worker I've ever seen. He will do information right away. He's just an incredible talent.
And then when you put that all together and now he's won like six more times again like with no no real help for me, such such a talent. But it was really cool to see and hang out with him a bunch of TPC Scottsdale and and and then you know who doesn't like Max Hommer, Right, if you don't like Max Homma, you're the problem. Let's be clear,
like it ain't Max so doing that. And then now it's yeah, just I consult for a lot of players, a lot come to Tucson, you meet some really cool people, and uh, it's a wild ride and it's doing what I love. I love teaching all of golf, but something special about helping short game to me, that just you know, when you do that thing that makes you feel alive or it's like, I don't even know what I'm getting paid, I don't care what I'm getting paid, Like this is.
What I want to do.
It's like teaching short game to really anyone, but like the high level players is special.
I'm actually just in both of your thoughts on this. I'll start with you, Derek. You know you we talk so much about teaching golf. Is it a different approach to teaching a great player versus teaching an average player because they're bringing so many different skill sets to the table. But in theory, you're probably trying to get them to similar spots, right, I mean in terms of contactor where they hit the ball, the way they're they're moving it
through through impact. I mean, I'm assuming the end goal might be the same, but the way you get there might be different.
The tough thing is a tour player, you can give them terrible info and they can probably make it work.
Okay, they're so skilled.
So talented that I could tell them to use the opposite of the club. They're like, okay, yeah, I get you know, depending on what their level is. But when you get a player it comes in for a lesson. They miss your hand, you know, trying to shake it. It's like, okay, we're gonna try to get this club on this ball. Let's be clear, I ain't gonna probably go that well. So so knowing that, so then you really have to dial in things that they can do, what's reasonable, make it very clear.
So that they can have success.
So that's really kind of a sneaky fun challenge. It's like, you know, if I can get this person short game well not you know, with no disrespect to them, because it's a challenging game, but it's like, man, that's that's an accomplishment compared to these super high level players that really can do anything, which is why they're where they're at.
The way i'd answer that one change from a from a fitting standpoint would be that the high handicapped golfer, we don't see them. They don't need to have as much variation in their short game. They can have one staple shot they rely on. Let's say ninety ninety five percent of the time, and quite often they are not comfortable opening the face right, So I want to flip that your way here in a second, Derek. But then then the more skilled golfer they need, they're going to
have more variety. They're gonna move the handle around, They're gonna lean it back, lean it forward, raise the handle, lower their hands for different shots. So we will put them through a more advanced fitting protocol that stresses all those areas and make sure it works for the shots they need to hit on the course, Derek. For you, what do you see with the high handicap player? Do they do they fear opening the face? Can you give them to open the face? Is that something you teach them.
I'm kind of curious to get your thoughts on it. It's very case by case basis.
I get a lot something that I somewhat have a specialty, and I guess is I'm a lot of people's last resort when they have the yips.
So I've had people flying from all over They're like, it's you or nothing. And You'll see some of these people and it's.
Like that's either a major compliment or a huge dig.
It's like, hey, you're my last resort, and you'll see them hit some shots and I'm like, are you really playing?
Are you doing this in front of your buddy? Like this is wow.
So when that's the case, it's just getting any way that they can predict contact, getting comfortable with any any style before we start moving up the chains, like okay, we got to make pretty good contact, then we got to control it, and it's building this this kind of learning foundation of okay, well then we can start to open the face. Same thing in bunkers. People have one speed when they come to me, they're struggling. It's called panic speed. Get me out of here. They can give
it full gas and this ball's going anywhere. It's so it's very player to player in that regard.
I feel like teaching golf. I mean, you know, if you were gonna compare it to like a road trip, there are you know, high handicapped players. Players you're talking about last ers or type of players that the road trip like to get them to a next level might be another city. It might be driving from two soon
the Phoenix or twoson del Passo. You're talking to a tour player, it might literally just be trying to get them to the next exit, you know where it's like, it's not there's not that much you need to improve on. But if I can get you a mile better on this road trip, then it can be you know, it can be an enormous leap for you because it's just so incremental in terms of getting better when you're that that high of a level of golfer.
I think that's what's helped me out even in my coaching. So I get a lot of players that see me for spin right, they want to hit that spin shot.
So we don't necessarily have to change form, change technique, change how they do anything.
It's like, hey, we can add these we can add these skills to your toolbox and then head down the road.
Derek, Uh, what shot or let's say you're on the golf course. What you you walk up to your ball? What scenario and conditions get you very excited? Like you're gonna be able to melt this golf ball. You're gonna be able to show off with the shot on the course.
So I really like so if I had to set the stage right so it's a perfect lieball sitting up right, TPC Scott still is a perfect example one. So it's like, man, how can I I'm just gonna spin this thing, and then if I can go, I kind of like, you know you can spin it.
You see guys spin it from like fifty sixty.
That's fine, but the one that opens eyes is when you're close and you can spin it and people like I haven't seen that.
So if I get it right.
About my sweet spots, probably if it calls for it right because in tournaments, I'm gonna try to be smart. But if if it calls for it, you know, something where it's a tight pin, maybe over something great lie, maybe in that ten to twenty yard range where I can just cut one up there.
So you're telling me you get excited about the shots that we don't want to hit. That's what you're saying exactly the ones I'm like, I don't want anything to do with this. All. I'm gonna pitch this twenty feet by and maybe I'll make the putt.
Yeah, it's it, and we both know you guys can both play, but it I think it does help somewhat practicing those kind of unique shots because it's like, I can go have fun with this, and I think something that's helped me in events is I don't care how I look or how I play, Like I can live with any result. If I had a terrible shot, No one's better at living with a bad result than me. So I think that gives me a huge advantage because
I don't care how it turns out. So that helps me free it up, put myself in that practice mode, kind of lick my lips and be like watch this. Oh, and then I mean, it's just fun.
It's just however it goes.
It's great.
When did social media become a part of all this, because I mean, as I've mentioned, I mean the social media side has grown. What's your relationship like right now with the Instagram? Do you love it?
Is it?
Is it frustrating?
Yeah?
So the great thing for me is it's all fun. It's I don't it's like an additional yeah, exactly. So the greatest thing that has helped me do is meet great people, great coaches, great players. I don't need to make money off of it. If a video does well
or bad, it doesn't really matter to me. Again, I think I started kind of eight or nine years ago, and I was talking last night to Georgia Gankias his good friend, and we were both at like a couple like a thousand followers of two thousand followers, and I'm seeing him and you knowble to watch him grow, and so we were kind of early adopters, I guess in the in the Instagram era, which I probably should have done YouTube honestly, if I talk to my younger self
and be playing golf for fun for a lot of money, and then it kind of Instagram changed, TikTok came out, some of these other platforms. So like the algorithm or whatever you want to call it has maybe adjusted somewhat, but it doesn't matter. Like I'm still just putting out things.
I like.
Oftentimes I'll get asked to speak about goofy you not goofy things, but like, you know, how do you build how did you build your brand or how did you It's like, Okay, I got on fiver and I got my logo, you know, for fifteen bucks. You know, I sent it to fifteen people, but yeah, exactly, so I was like, we'll get fifteen options, you know, we'll do it from there.
And then.
Again, just really being able to do it for fun, I think it's really allowed me to have no pressure, right, So I'd be doing the same thing if I had zero followers, same thing if I had whatever followers. But it's just because I love this game so much, and it's just I love teaching it, I love playing it. I think about it too much, and it's just like an addiction.
Shait.
We did the Halloween edition scary Shots yep, and it was like forty to seventy yard bunker shot. This guy is probably the best I've ever seen at it.
What's I would actually agree?
I'm pretty good. Yeah, I'm real good.
I'm not gonna.
Though pretty Walk us through your process.
It's super easy. It's the easiest process.
Now you're going Phil Mickelson on us.
So here's but here's what I so when I have to twur players come down or at these college kids.
And I'd ask you both of this.
So your highest lefted wedge out of out of normal sand when you make a full swing, how far does it.
Fly out of a normal bunker shot?
How far? Give me a number?
Eight yards full swing? Oh, like I'm hitting.
A full like it's a full bunker blast. Oh thirty yards exactly.
I have no idea.
That's problem twenty twenty ish.
Okay, So in a tournament, mine flies thirty yards exactly.
Full bunker shot.
Yeah, normal shot. So I know that I have all my players calibrate that.
Okay.
So that's a knowledge thing.
So when I get to a green side bunker and I pull out my laser and everyone's like, what's this goofball doing, It's like.
I'm again, I don't care how I look. Right, We've we've been clear about that.
I don't care at all. I'll laser the pin and it's like, oh thirty, it's like the thirty one pin. Oh this is full.
Does your laser measure that short?
Well?
So see most people don't even know that, yes it does.
So and then if I got forty yards, it's my next wedge, it's my fifty five. At fifty yards, it's my fifty degree. It's sixty yards, it's pitching lunch.
I had a shot this past summer it was like seventy five to the pin. I just looked at me.
I've got my little matrix and I say, oh, this is It was kind of sitting down, so I didn't want to hit like a shot. I was like, I just full nine iron blast. It was seventy seventy five yards. I hit it to a fifteen feet because I just I have a system that I just feel like, again, I've never seen it hurt anyone to know those numbers, because then it can give you confidence in events when you need it. And I'm not trying to get closer to the balls podcast. I'm not trying to do anything different.
It's like I love a forty five yard bunker shop because it's just.
A it's a full, it's a full. Fifty five.
We played together at Phoenix Country Club the driveable number six.
Yeah, you guys were all up there.
I was back in the longer fact kind of kind of number five. Yeah, it kind of wiped me. It kind of didn't hit one.
I didn't make it over at any point.
Back I see him. It was like rain Man. He got out this thing and doing all this stuff, and then all of a sudden, I walk up by the green and it hits up to like five feet. I was like, okay, yeah, and then he hold about it thirty five.
Yeah.
Well, hey, perfect for Bertie. We were coming back, Marty, Bertie.
Yeah, we came back. We came back.
Beat the Amateurs, take take Down and take down the I've never again. I mean, you think about how much you focus on the game, and to think about never knowing how far I hit a full bunker shot is I've never I'm thirty nine. I never thought about it one.
So I've got. I've kind of developed these protocols things I like every tour player to have.
I get.
I have a lot of high level, kind of D one players that I help out to. I have these certain metrics that I like you to know just because again, like when I had that seventy five yard bunkers shot in Minnesota ball sitting down, I had a solution to the question the course asked. I didn't have to practice it ever. I just like, Okay, this is the plan, and then let's do.
What is the checklist? You asked the players that come your way to have answered yeah.
So when it comes down to it, it's like having certain shots and skills, right. We can simplify it and there's much more to this, but it's like having a good ball first skill in short gam having a good ground for a short skill in short game out of the bunkers, knowing certain numbers from thirty to one hundred, knowing certain
numbers again, even if you don't use them. So I like my players to be more planned than the guy or girl that they're going to play, and then it's just like a cheat sheet when you're on the golf course.
Do you do any of that with putting as well? Any any of that framework go to putting?
So I haven't yet, but I feel like there is a need because if I teach someone and this is what I found in teaching, it's my job to meet them where they're at. If they don't want to practice, I've got to figure out a solution for them. I don't even to practice if they don't want to, that's on me. So at that point, if someone comes to me they say, I plan my annual work event, how do.
I hit a fifty foot putt? I should have a solution to that.
So what we can do is we can start to use their feet, spread them out and say, hey, if we have a certain metronome number and we do a certain stroke, I.
Think this is where you're gonna get close.
Or we can have them kind of measure three three stands with because I've got to give them a solution. Again, like I don't need them to practice if they don't want to, but I better give them a good solution explaining, Hey, if you're not going to practice, you know, these maybe goals you have are not attainable. But if you don't want to practice, I better be able to give you somewhat of an answer whether I want to or not.
You did that with my kids in putting. I remember, I just they just took their normal stance. With my kids. Are their putters going all over? So just to the foot to the foot boom exactly? They're rolling the rocket.
Yeah, they're rolling the pier.
I mean, what what a what a way to think about it where it's really teaching per play, you know. I mean we've talked a lot about that with different instructors where it feels like the old school way was here's my system, I'll match you to my system. Yeah, and now it's a lot about I'm going to try to figure out the best case scenario for you. And I mean I've thought about it in terms of swing and body type, and Mark Blackburn talks a lot about this.
I mean, you talk about matching who you are, you know, to what you're capable of doing, what your body's cable doing. But even even the commitment to time and ability to practice and what your goals are at the end of the day. I mean, it's so interesting to think about it from that perspective. Yeah.
Again, I think that's where I've become a better instructor is because you know, I'd be like, well, you got to find not that I would ever say it, but like, well, can't you find time to practice? And again, you guys
have you know, kids, family and all that. And then also what you've realized after teaching for so long is people who practice don't necessarily get any better, right, They get vitamin D from the sun, they get sweaty, they get frustrated, and that the time is spent doesn't equate to better score.
So at that point, I don't want you to waste your time. I'd rather you go play.
So if I teach a lot of working people and I'm like, I want to give you easy solutions, and I need you to go.
Play and have fun.
I don't want you to go beat balls at the range again, where you're maybe doing something that we're not working on. You're just you're maybe regressing or doing something poorly. I want to give you good solutions.
You go play. You just have better.
Answers, Derek, what do you like more playing or teaching?
So what helps my teaching is I love playing the game way more and I love to teach.
So you like them both when we love them both.
But playing so making my game in season, my game is a priority. So someone's like, can you squeeze me? And I'm like, no, I can't. I got a practice or I got to play. So by doing that, though, it shows your students, you know, the commitment when needed. Also when you go and do playing lessons and hit shots, you know when they I've never seen it be bad for a coach to be able to hit great shots.
Not that you don't they have to write you don't have to be a great player to coach well, but I've never seen a student not you know, when you're hitting some great shots and you know you're kind of lighting up the green and it's looking pretty good for you. I've never seen a student be like, mah, bummer.
You know this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. It just can can add value added.
It's only to be helpful. Can we talk about the new edges, because I mean these the s one to fifty nine's are so a beautiful I think that's what's kind of blown me way the most. But it feels like, and I don't think you're going out on a limb to say this, they're the best wedges Ping has ever made.
And for somebody that's obsessed with spinning the golf ball and in and around the greens, I'm sure when you saw those for the first time, it was probably like a bit of like a Christmas Birthday kind of combo.
Yeah, and again, Ping is so great in every area wedges haven't done as well as.
Maybe you know peing Wood one.
I'm sure right, it's it's you know, well known to some extent there. But now with the app, with the simplicity of the wedge lineup, with the look, with the op, with the bounce options, and then having the again I'm in the friction business, so it's like the spinniest club. I see you back there, fiction man, it's the spinniest club in a high friction environment, and then it's just so much better in a low friction environment.
So for what I do, it's great.
But again, playing all the Ping stuff, right, Ping woods, how well do they do? I mean you guys are posting non staff guys playing pingas.
Day think it's I think it's a humbling thing. Would say, very well.
Yeah, exactly right. So it's going very well. And then I feel like now like again Ping has had but like their their wedge lineup and product is so good. And again, before I played in the Shriners, I had, you know, another brand, and it was like, okay, you probably don't want to switch that before you go in. You gave me the wedges out of the bunkers. They are incredible, and then off the ground, I'm like, these are going straight in and it was just like from
day one they did everything I wanted end more. And then being in the friction business, they make me look better than I probably am.
What is your what is your typical kind of gapping? How do you do your gapping on your your own wedges? There?
So I've always liked sixty fifty six, fifty two.
Forty, but now modernly it's sixty fifty five fifty.
And then forty five.
Okay, yeah, so, always been a four wedge guy, and just Dave Pelis told.
Me, so, Marty, what's your gapping right now?
Sixty one? Then a fifty six at fifty five, fifty at fifty and a half and then my and then my blueprint s pitching wedg.
Okay, so you you've never have you gone four wedges before? I mean, obviously you're in the wedge out of the set, like the four wedges and why the switch back, I guess is what.
I Yeah, So yeah, the set wedge, the blueprint ass pitching wedg. And I went to four wedges when I went from Arizona to Colorado because then my apping just exploded and I was like, you get up there in Colorado and uh, you're driving it far and then you have a lot of one hundred and twenty yard shots had a huge gap. So I got the gaps kind of dialed in and I've kept that ever since. I've really I've really enjoyed that. It's a skill to be able to develop, to be able to hit those tweeter wedges.
That's actually something I need to work on a little bit. This year, we heard from Preston, who right here literally out.
Yeah, I mean what's our tea time.
Yeah. When we did our podcast with Preston and he did his like strengths and weakness analysis off of his previous year. It was his number one thing he wanted to work on was his wedge gapping. He's gotten not a bad spot to work on it.
Yeah, and this is a it's a bit silly if you if you can't see behind us, we'll probably show it if you're watching the YouTube clip of this. But at the bird you can basically tell everything within five yards of every shot. I think up to one twenty five or one thirty. So if you're not a great wedge player while you're at ASU, it's your fault. I think that's like Dare say, I can try to make you better, but you probably have to put a little time in.
Derek, what mistakes do you see some of your students come in with in terms of their wedges or maybe their lab wedge? First question and second question related to that is do you like to teach your players to use two wedges or do you want them to be like Weird Tiger and Onica Hey sixty degree learn how to use it from everywhere? Yep.
So for myself growing up, I've always used again, every time I have a shot, you've seen it. Unfortunately, it's like, why is this going to bring this whole bag up to the shot. Well, I always bring my four wedges, and I like my last wedge to be my w I don't like playing like a forty eight there because I want it to not spin. So I want it to be somewhat of a set wedge in a sense that it won't check up when I want to hit
it lower and have it not spin. Based on that, the question of what do you want a student to do short term? If they don't have time to practice and they like one club, I'm just gonna have them wear that club out right. We can work on some landing spots stuff, We can do some stuff like that. But then I say, hey, maybe long term, here's where you know, I feel like over time we can start to put the odds in our favor as we start
to do less work. If I'm going to carry the ball less, have it, you know, be more predictable with spin. I feel like I'm doing less than a lot of people. Again, you see the social media stuff. When I play, I try to remove spin to be a little bit more predictable when I need to. So I feel like on stock short game shots, I'm doing less than most people. So I want that maybe for a long term college player, professional.
But it's whatever is working right.
So if someone comes to me, they say, well, geez, I don't really want to change this, And I say, well, your stats say you're last, so you know, we can kind of keep that in mind, but I wouldn't keep anything you're doing right. Or maybe they're doing something where the stats say, hey, the stats back this up, so we're going to look at that before we, you know, make too many decisions.
Marty. That is it's interesting you asked that question. I feel like that's some and I struggle with a bit of my game is I'll walk up to a shot and I will almost allow myself too many options.
Yeah, you know, it's.
Like like an easy chip shot and it's like maybe it's fifty six and it's kind of low with like a little bit of spin, or maybe I get to the fifty and do the same thing. And I've been trying to lean a little bit more into just taking the one club up to the green, Like if you're riding a card or you're using your push card, you get it over the side, it's like just take one,
so then you only have one option. Because I play four wedges in I mean it is easy to kind of get lost in the process as opposed to just going up there and going I know I could make this shot work with this club as long as I completely believe in it.
I'm guilty of that. I'm guilty of that getting over that chip shot. I'm about to hit it, and I got my four clubs there, Ah, I swap it out. It doesn't feel right. Swap it out.
It goes back to it's always the first choice. It's almost the right one to go with.
Yeah, trust your instinct there a little biteah, and I think for that right.
So when I bring up for my process would be I'm kind of trying to find that flatish spot two to three steps on the green or wherever's reasonable. If there's no slopes or anything we can negate that. I'll kind of find a spot and then just doing it for so long, it's like Okay, then what what club fits that window?
And then it's like, okay, there's my club choice.
So I'm kind of it's like I could land it here there, but I'm kind of I've kind of trained myself to kind of see the same kind of spot I want to land it and roll it out and then it's pretty easy to decide from there. But I can't understand like, well, I could do this, I could do this, I could do this.
So at that.
Point, that's where the benefits of you know, one club to just be like, hey, this is what you got to do.
When you have college players or young professionals come to you for advice around the greens, what do you feel like as a shot that they consistently either struggle with or they're trying to get answers for. Because when you play golf with really good players, you know, a lot of the standard shots are good at what's one that maybe they all kind of ask you questions about?
Yeah, short game is weird because some players will reach out because they're like, hey, I'm feeling kind of yippie okay, right, So at that point it's like, okay.
How do we solve that?
A lot of do you solve that?
So it's very it's it's very player based because I've got some videos of some some yippers that you just you couldn't believe. So it's very player based, but it's essentially changing the way that they do things because usually in my case, I've never found it to be just mental it's this, it's a poor technical way to do it that over time. If I had to do it that way too, I'd be in a basket case as well. You're not having success, how can you picture success like
you're seeing bad shots? I would be pretty negative too, right, I mean we haven't seen any success. So the yips are a little bit player to player. I get players a lot of players for spin, right, so that's kind of a forte of mine. But then I'll get a lot of players who they're like, you know, things are okay, but my stats don't back it up. So I've developed some ways that I like to see people practice with
hitting some certain landing spots. I've got some metrics for if you have a certain shot with the landing zone should be, and that's where you know, Scott Fawcett's come
down to do some work on that. So it's really you know, even in short game, it can be like, well, you know, I'm I'm hitting this shot, but it just kind of feels this way, right, So it's it's not quite full swing coach in that regards, but it can just be these almost weird requests at times where it's like, well, why does this do this, And so it's very can be general and it can be very specific.
Yeah, Derek, let's talk a little bit about that marriage of teaching and fitting. We talked to Boyd Summer Hayes on the pod. He was like, if there's ever an issue with performance, I'm looking at the equipment first, right, Because he said, Tony and Preston they're they're kind of proud, they're not complainers. But quite often, hey, maybe it's if you're hitting your seven iron right, maybe the lion goes
off or something. Right, what is that indication? If you get a player down there, everything's looking good mechanically, but they might not be in the right grind. What what do you see in the results? How do you diagnose that? How do you marry up the fitting the grind, fitting with instruction.
So oftentimes, again if someone's struggling or just kind of you know, have some members at the club, because I teach a lot of high level players, and then at our club we have members from five handicaps to new golfers. Right, So when they come in and I might just see a club and I'm like, man, that club's way older than me. They just stick it in the ground because it's like a knife. I don't even know if bounce was invented yet, So I'm like, man, congrats, like this
is kind of what you should be doing. I'll let them try my club. I'll let them try some other things,
like oh man, I didn't know that. Once you explain the technology, you know how to use maybe the bottom of the club if that's something they struggle with, and then from there giving them some different options, asking what type of terrain sand shots they like to play, so we can kind of further dive into and I think that's where you know, some of the new stuff with the with the ping fitting app is going to be special.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean the app is sensational. It's just simple to simplify all this stuff down to questions golfers can actually answer. Is such a unique thing, Marty. I mean I tout this all the time. I Mean, the innovation around ping has just been so cool because it's so easy to not easy, but it's easy in theory to present new technology and say this stuff's the next best thing, But to explain to a golfer why they need it or if they're using it the right way. I always
go back to the adjustable drivers. When they first came out, it was an amazing technology, but average golfers had no idea how to figure out even what to do with the driver until it was simplified to a way where you could actually go, Okay, if I click it open here, then that adds one degree or takes one degree off
exactly Wedges. I mean, we've talked about it here, We've talked to some other of the short game geniuses around ping, and I feel like the grinds and all of the options around Wedges makes sense, but it's very hard for an every day golfer to understand which one they even need for the golf course they player, the area they live in.
Yeah, I mean, I think shaneing in Wedges people get paralyzed by what all the different grinds, all the different manufacturers. So the the big friction point or pain point we try to solve with that app is not only the grind get you in the right grind or down to two you can then go demo, try out and chip, but also we see a big problem with the gapping. And that's why I asked Derek about gapping, is how
do you gap your set? Because people we see it all the time, they don't have the right spacing in their wedges and it's costing them a ton of shots. So the app kind of solves both those things.
Derek, have you ever thought about going like seventy degree wedge or seventy five degree wedge? Just see what you can do with it.
I would guess my dad, you know, he tends to get some of the infomercial clubs.
He might have that option.
All right, I've seen that, you know, the eighty degree wedge again at the hit you in the not at the club. You know, I've seen every late night TV golf club, you know, when they come up in their struggle at it's like, well, you know they've got this club and this club.
And would there be any compliance on an eighty degree wedge? That's my question for you.
You know what, if anyone who's going to make that ball comply, it's gonna be me. It'd be you, But Eric Hendrickson would probably say otherwise.
Well, Derek, fascinating to hear your story. I mean, one of my favorite followers on Instagram, it's a tree teach to meet you in in three D human form. It's always nice when you get to do that with people. But keep grinding because, like I said, it's cool to have you as an ambassador, it's cool to have you in and around the PING team, and it's just fun to see what you're able to do, you know, with the wedges, because not a lot of humans on planet Earth can do what you do.
Yeah, and it's it's really a win win.
I think it's a bigger win for me than PING because I get utilize their resources. It's like going to a library and I'm you know, I'm excited to go there. It's like, oh I got a bug. Eric. Well, I think it's like a symbiotic relation. I'm kind of like, hey, Eric, what do you doing? Tomuri Isaiah got all these things. I'm like, could you want to hear me talk about what I'm saying? Can you draw some cool drawings for me?
Yeah, Marty's card catalog is just his laptop of design features on the clubs. Yeah, it's like I said, it's it's awesome to have you a part of it and me. Thanks for your time.
Absolutely, Thanks guys.
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