43: Learning & Mastering the Two-Handed Backhand and Roll Dink (The Two-ey!)

Welcome to four point. Focuses on a single shot. and sunny. Long Beach, California. By my dog Ben at my feet. Mircha is not here, it's just you and me, kid. Partially because he's traveling. But the other part is, this is the one single shot in my arsenal that he does not possess, which is a two-y. Not only a two-e ground stroke, but also a two-e roll dink, both of which I possess and are very good in my arsenal. So we're going to talk about two E backhand dink.

And two we backhands. In this particular episode I'm gonna teach you how to do both

Before we jump into it, a little bit of housekeeping. You guys may have gotten just a ton of new episodes in your RSS feed or in your podcast app. And that is because I deleted all 73 of the first episodes of the show. that were with the previous co-host who shall remain nameless. And over the last couple of months Mircha and I have been replacing all of those shows. In fact, we've replaced like

30 of the old shows with the new content. And look, this game is evolving very quickly, so this content is actually very relevant now compared to what it was like two years ago when we started the show. Nevertheless. We have now replaced all of those episodes, and I had to rename really, we started at like episode 74. So I basically renamed that from episode one, just so people could track the episodes if they wanted to in the future.

So you have probably a whole bunch of new shows that showed up in your feed. My apologies. It was just a bit of housekeeping that had to be done. But now we're good. We're all set. And we have a lovely fresh start where we have upgraded across the board. And now you guys have some fun new content to listen to. And really quickly, just today. I'm having a little minor surgery tomorrow. No big, nothing to worry about.

But uh I got a chance to play uh a few games with the brand new Carbon True Foam Four, the upgraded hybrid paddle. It's like if you play a two, which is very square. This one has a rounded top and a tapered sides and a longer handle. And I'm always fascinated by pickleball paddles in general, where when you stack your paddle up against your buddies. And they're basically the same shape and the same width and the same everything, but man, do they play completely differently.

I was very much expecting this to be a little bit of an evolution from the two, but it really surprised me as the day went along and I got a little more used to it. It was a faster swing, but I found that it was a much more stable paddle. I could still play with the two, no problem. But I did find that the sweet spot felt a little bigger on the four. And man, did I love the luxury of having a half inch longer handle for that TUI that we're going to discuss on this very show right now.

So when we're allowed to talk about all the specs, I'm actually probably gonna do an interview with the carbon guys, Garrett and Kyle, when the time is appropriate for such a thing. And we'll talk a little bit about how they constructed the paddle and what it's all about. But uh big thumbs up for me on the uh true foam four. It officially launches to the public on July twenty-third, twenty twenty five. You can get on an early list, however, right this very second.

If you go to carbonpickleball.com at Crbnpickleball.com slash TFG4, True Foam Genesis 4. TFG4 and sign up. That will give you early access. And of course, you can use the promo code 402p at checkout, but uh you can get on that early access list.

Let's get into this TUI. Now, one of the reasons why I've decided to do the show is because I just did the APP event here in Newport Beach, went really well, had a blast. I will say that in general Certainly almost every single woman, but almost every single guy as well. When they're on the left hand side of the court is doing the two handed Top spin roll dink. And it just made me think, well, this really needs to be in everybody's arsenal. Also, when you're doing a groundstroke or a drive,

From the backhand side, it's so very rare that somebody has a really good one handed backhand that they can manipulate. Now they can hit'em and they're really good when they're behind the baseline and they can go full tennis style. get a full swing, big step in. But that's not usually the case in pickleball. We tend to have to be much more compact. And that's where this two-handed backhand can really come in handy. So let's learn it.

What you need to do to learn this backhand is put some headphones on and go find a wall somewhere. That is going to be the first thing you do, which is to find a wall. So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna take our offhand. So, if you're a righty, you're gonna take your lefty. If you're a lefty, you're gonna take your righty.

You're gonna grip the paddle like you're gonna hit a two handed backhand, right? So that offhand is gonna be typically above. It's gonna be closer to the throat of the paddle. And the other hand's going to be closer to the base. And you're going to let the regular hand go. So now your offhand is choked up on the paddle a little bit. You're gonna face the wall, whatever wall you're going to hit against, you're gonna drive your neighbors crazy by hitting against your garage.

or your fence or whatever it is, or go over to the local tennis court, or just find a wall somewhere. You know where walls are. And I'm gonna teach this from the perspective of a righty Teaching the backhand TUE. Okay. So if you're a lefty, just flip everything I just said. If you look at a clock and you can imagine the number seven, so seven o'clock to one o'clock. That kind of diagonal path on the face of the clock is what we're looking for.

In this swing path. So you're gonna literally hold your paddle straight down. So the tip of the paddle is facing towards the ground. And this is really important, letting this thing hang, because when we do our actual two-handed backhand swing, you're going to want that paddle down because that's going to give you the lift and the spin that you want.

from a backhand. What we want to do here is initially just start by trying to dink against the wall with your offhand. This is without doing any spin at all yet. And just get used to keeping your arms straight. Again, I always talk about like zombie dinks or Frankenstein dinks. It's very important that your arms are straight when you do this. Because when you watch a nice proper two-handed backhand, of course I'm doing it right now, you can't see me.

But when you watch the prep for a two-handed backhand, both arms are dead straight. You're reaching down to the ground with the top of your paddle facing towards the ground. And that is really going to be your base position as you're getting ready to strike the ball. But for now, let's just work on controlling a dink with your offhand against the wall.

And do it just like you would any other new shot, which is let me get five in a row, let me get 10 in a row, let me get 20 in a row, let me get 50 in a row. So I'm gonna say once you're able to get about 50 in a row. Where you're able to move laterally left and right and keep the ball controlled. And this is going to be really about control. Can you not hit it really hard so it flies back in some random way enough that you can hit the next ding?

And it's comfortable for you. So once you can do let's say 50 of these, then we're gonna start introducing a little bit of spin. What I want you to do, start imagining that clock, seven to one, okay? And this is gonna be basically brushing the back. And the outside of the ball. If you're righty hitting a two-handed backhand, the spin's going to be clockwise on the ball. It's going to be.

straight, so it's spinning forward, and also from left to right, so it's spinning clockwise. It's gonna be this sort of Hybrid Of getting right behind the ball and getting on the left side of the ball. So imagine hitting that sort of left quarter. So it's going to be spinning diagonally as well as forward. And if I can remember to do it, I'm going to post an Instagram video of all four phases. that I'm going to teach you right now. So

Straight dinks anyway, just keep them controlled. Second phase, we're going to get under the ball. We're gonna go around the outside as well as the back. And you're gonna brush. Think about your arm being straight and that ball spinning to the wall. If you do this correctly, and this is really cool. Imagine how a boxer has one of those speed bags that's hanging.

on their little chain and they can start it going bata ta ba ta ta ba ta ta ba da ba-da-ba da and they can really get this rhythm. What happens when you do this correctly is the ball is spinning to the right. When it hits the wall, if it's spinning correctly, it's actually going to spin right back to your paddle again.

And you're gonna actually be able to hit the next ball. So you can really get into a rhythm of hitting the wall and the ball bouncing back to where you want it. There's so much knee in this. Because your arm's gonna be mostly straight. So you're gonna have to be using your knees to lift, stay nice and low, and then lift up on the ball as you hit it. Nice and low. Strike the outside, strike the back, lift up on the ball as you hit it.

So now I want to see another fifty of those. And this is a really good time, by the way, at the very beginning of this exercise. Throw an audio book on or throw a podcast on or whatever. Just expect to be there for forty-five minutes to an hour on the wall. Because it's very critical that you get this wall time and get really comfortable with the movement. Av hitting this offhand ball until it's cozy. Ikea presenterar Ljud av förändring. Det slut! Vänner till rivalen.

Welcome to Likia. Because here's what happens. Phase three, you're gonna have to grab a friend, you're gonna have to jump on a court, and you're going to be doing diagonal dinks. So as a righty, you're gonna be on the left side of the court, dinking to the left side of the person on the other side. Okay? So left side to left side. So this would be effectively, if you were a lefty, this would be a four-hand dink.

And that's where things get a little tricky. So this is where all the practice time you did on the wall is going to come to fruition because you're gonna wanna really control these. So it's gonna be a hot mess.

For the first part. It's gonna be all over the place. You're going to be making mistakes left, right, and center. They're going to be all over the place. But what you'll find is The straighter you keep your arm, the more you're able to get behind and around the side of the ball, and the more you bend your knees and lift up on this shot.

The more consistent and controlled it's going to be. You're going to start hitting your target on the other side. It's going to be chaos, and then you're going to hit five. And then you're gonna hit 10, and then you're gonna hit 25. When you start getting into that 25 range, if you can comfortably start hitting 25-ish balls.

Back and forth. You send one. The instant they dig it back, that's one. Then two, three, four. You go up to twenty-five. When you get to twenty-five, put your regular hand on the paddle. So now you'll have two hands on the paddle doing the exact same movement that you just were. So you're still going to be lifting with your knees. The arms are still going to be straight.

You're still going to be using primarily your offhand to steer this ball. But here's what's really cool. As you're doing this, every once in a while, you're gonna make a mistake and hit gold. And what I mean by that is you're gonna hit this. savage top spin roll dink to the other side and go, whoa, I literally didn't know how to do that a few minutes ago. I did not have this shot in my arsenal at all.

So let's talk swing path for a second. We're starting with the dink and we're gonna move back to the ground. Okay. So the swing path on the two-handed roll dink is the ball's gonna be out in front of you. So your arms are going to be straight. The ball's gonna be out in front of you, like I have mine in front of my knees, basically. And then the swing path, believe it or not, is only a few degrees.

You're going basically straight up. Imagine like ending up like you're holding your paddle in front of yourself, like you're praying or something. So you're reaching down and in front. And a little tip is to pronate. the wrist of your regular hand. So bend it down if you hold your hand out directly in front of your body and let your wrist hang straight down. That's what I mean by pronate. So I want it to bend down while you're grabbing that handle. And this is just a little flip.

And again, if I can get this Instagram video, you'll see what I'm talking about. But the swing path is very abbreviated. What you don't want to do on the roll dink is end up over your right shoulder. Again, if you're hitting righty. Because typically you would do that in a ground stroke. You take it from all the way to one side and sweep across your body and end up on the other side. That is not the case. This one's actually more straight up.

It's a very abbreviated, straight up swing path. What you'll find is every once in a while, you'll hit an amazing shot. And go, whoa, if I could do that on purpose every time, I would really have something here, wouldn't I? And that's what we're aiming towards. This is one of the shots that is really required to drill a

Ton. Like this is the kind of thing that you would literally drill for an hour with someone. Like you would literally just sit there and hit two-handed roll dinks. What you'll find is probably a 90% footwork. Shot. You really have to get behind the ball, get the paddle out in front of you, and have this very abbreviated swing. If you want to see what it looks like at the pro level, literally go to YouTube and watch any pro match. Every single woman's doing one.

And again, most of the dudes are now as well. It's not just this long, one handed slice dink, which does exist. But man, is it fun when you get this thing consistent and you're able to start doing these two y roll dings. All of a sudden you have all of this opportunity.

Because now you can speed up off the bounce to that person directly in front of you. Whereas you couldn't really do that when you had a one handed slice dink. You can also fire a ball over the middle between the two players over the left shoulder of the right side player. With a nice little loopy topspin thing that didn't have before. You can also drive that left side player super wide with momentum, with a nice savage.

corner shot with tons of topspin on it that really pushes them off the court and turns into this lovely two shot combo because they're just trying to save the ball and then your partner can step in and just put that ball away. So it really gives you a ton of offense. And that's really what this shot does. This is a very offensive shot that you can get comfortable with. And when you're comfortable with it, you can do a ton with it. Now, let's take that partner we've got.

And let's get them to move right in front of So now we're going to dink with the same TUI. I want you to take a couple steps back into the transition zone and do this same motion. And what you'll find is The further back you go, the more backswing and torque and follow through you're going to have to give them.

A little bit more follow through, a little bit more backswing, but the same general motion. We're still gonna have our arms straight down towards the ground. We're gonna step back a couple of steps. Turn our body sideways and step with our right foot. So that we can drive this ball with our hips and then that back leg. As you continue to move back.

You keep that same swing path, low to high. Make sure the top of your paddle is facing the ground when you're about to hit this ball. And then you're going to swing and you're going to end up with that paddle over your right shoulder pointing towards the sky. So it's really this diagonal swing path as you come around the back and the outside of the ball. That never changes. You will always be hitting the back.

Around the outside of the ball. So the left side as well as the back, that seven to one spin that we're looking for. If you came from tennis, the only major difference between what you did with a two-handed backhand in tennis is that instead of going literally straight back.

from six to twelve with your top spin, you're doing seven to one. You're gonna really take it still low to high because that's what top spin is, is low to high. And in pickleball, if you find that you keep hitting the net, especially with roll volleys, And in this case like flicks or rolls or things like that, almost every single time it's because the tip of your paddle is not facing the ground enough. You're hitting it too flat.

Which is a very much a tennis volley. So we want to really pronate that wrist and let the paddle fall straight down till the top of the paddle is facing towards the ground.

The more the top of the paddle faces towards the ground, the more top spin you're going to get on the ball in literally every single shot in pickleball. So just burn that into your brain because if you do find that even in close quarter combat, If you keep whacking it into the net, just drop the tip of the paddle a little more and you'll get a little bit more of that lift on it that you're looking for. So as you guys go.

The next phase, which is the regular two E backhand, which we don't use a ton, by the way, in pickleball. Maybe a few years ago you would do a backhand slice return. Well now you can do a nice powerful deep two handed backhand return, especially if you're on the left hand side and they bury it in the corner on the serve. You can really step into it and give it some mustard.

Whereas before it was maybe a weak shot. This one is definitely a little more powerful, a little more penetrating into the court and gives you a nice opportunity to get up to the net and get ready for that next ball. You could certainly go back to the wall you started your two-handed dinks with. And uh go hit five hundred backhands, like regular ground stroke backhands.

Just to get that motion down, if you're struggling with the topspin part, just videotape yourself and look at it. I guarantee you the reason it's not top spinning well is because you're not dropping the tip of the paddle towards the ground. So just go there and practice. This is really a fun thing to practice. For me, it was 2023 when I decided to learn this. Most of my favorite players were doing either the Tui, roll, dink.

Or certainly the two-handed backhand. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna suck it up and learn this. And I think I learned what I just taught you guys, and I learned it exactly the way I just taught you. Literally. I did exactly what I just said. It was Fine. And I could start working on it. It didn't start showing up in my games, probably for

I don't know, a month and a half or so. And maybe that's something to think about when you guys are working on stuff in pickleball. It's one thing to work on it and dink with it and warm up with it. But another thing when it starts showing up in your game, you go, Ooh, that's that shot I was doing, which is amazing, right? And it's interesting too because I just played the APP. I did the senior pro. There's almost no senior pro men using two-handed backhand dinks at all.

Like they're just not using roll dinks. Ever almost every single person is doing a regular slight. So if I can get the confidence to start deploying this in a tournament of that ilk, then that's really the next step for me. So it's a good shot. It's something I do in rec play. I still hang a few balls up. It's not super comfortable for me to hit the two E roll like in combat. But certainly the two-handed backhand is pretty great now.

So I'm integrating it. I hope you guys integrate it as well because to me, it's almost like having uh of ten more weapons in your arsenal on the pickleball. And I think you guys will love it, honestly. So it's something to really embrace the suck. It's gonna stink for a while, for a few months, while you get it all worked out. But absolutely, if you want to, feel free to record a video. You guys can always send me stuff on Instagram. Of course it's at 4.0 to pro on Instagram. I'll have a look.

You can send me just a motion. I can tell you with your motion wh why it's doing what it's doing. That's pretty easy to do. You can also join our Patreon if you'd like to have uh a little more in-depth analysis. And some coaching along the way. And that's 402p.com slash support. If you guys have any questions on this show or any other show, or you have a topic you want us to talk about, please reach out at pickle. That'll do it! Keep on rocking. I'll see you on the next one.

Listening to four point zero to pro For more tips, find us on Instagram at 4.0. But don't forget to have fun.