Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Stories podcast. I'm Andre Glesser. And in October 2025, Queer Quest, a journey to self discovery, took place in Chicago. The event was recognized by UNESCO as officially part of the International Year of Quantum Science and Technology. In this episode, we're joined by Jessica and Emily Esquivel, who have come together to create this innovative event.
And it is, of course, in Chicago where recent increased immigration enforcement operations have created a heightened sense of tension and uncertainty across many communities. It's within this atmosphere that QueerQuest was forged with a view to build connection and resilience, offering as a reminder that science is not separate from the lives of those who do it. I'm doctor Jessica Esquivel. I'm a particle physicist and cofounder of Oya Nova Enterprises. I am Emily Esquivel.
I am a licensed clinical professional counselor, and I'm the other cofounder, the mental health side of Oya Nova Enterprises, and I own my own, private practice called Oya Nova Healing. So Oya Nova is really us, I would say, in business form. The mission of Oya Nova is to forge innovative social initiatives through the power of community, and QueerQuest is one of those initiatives.
We realized that as we were going through the ivory tower of academia, we saw a lot of, like, professional development spaces that were really focused only on the career progression of us in both of our fields. But when you're marginalized in STEAM, when you're marginalized in, mental health practice, leaving that holistic approach to career progression was was lacking. And that's where we thought Olinova could really
find that niche. Mhmm. I think through our conversations, we were really realizing, that, yes, higher education is important, but at what cost Mhmm. To our bodies, to our mental health, to our well-being. And I think we both had firsthand experiences of struggling to maintain our bodies, our minds as we moved through the education system. Yeah. In a lot of ways, for marginalized people, academia can be like a toxic relationship Mhmm. That you just can't kick. Right?
I have a a passion for for physics and for studying, you know, the building blocks of our universe, but that came at a cost to my well-being and and being high cost. Yeah. And being in spaces that truly affected, like, my mental health. And when talking to specifically other black women in the field of physics, this, depression after PhD was a norm and not an anomaly. And we weren't talking about how it kind of ravaged our bodies and our minds.
And while it's a huge accomplishment, like, I know that I'm only one of a 150 black women with a PhD in physics. Like, that's huge. But the weight of it, right, was also huge. And, yeah, we really just wanted to create a safe space to have conversations like that. And it wasn't until, like, 2020 that even the conversation around mental health was bubbling up to the surface in our, like, science
fields. It was these conversations between Jessica and Emily around the time of the COVID nineteen pandemic that led them to see the critical need for connections and support networks within higher education, especially for marginalized groups. And these conversations were the start of a journey that led to the creation of QueerQuest, an event that blended the boundaries of science, healing, and community to celebrate black, brown, and queer identities.
When Em and I were having these late night conversations, having the the the understanding of, like, what it means to be black, brown, queer, marginalized in STEAM, and and how therapy and therapists can help support that journey. Like, that was also kind of, like, a an a part of that puzzle. Yeah. And I would say from the mental health perspective, it was through those conversations too that you start realizing, oh, there are serious limitations to, just one on one talk therapy.
And while it's great and amazing and I'm a therapist and that's what I do, it has its limitations. And we were the more we started having these conversations, the more, we started recognizing how many people were also having the same experience in higher education, where it was taking a toll on their mental health, on their bodies, and the sacrifices
being made to do this. So, yeah, this is part of, I think, what got me thinking more about the limitations of white westernized theories for mental health and really leaning into more, like, holistic practices, to address the whole person, not just the individual. Yeah. And I think that's where, one, QueerQuest was born, right, out of those late night conversations, and, two, how quantum mechanics became like our North Star.
And we use these concepts of superposition, of being in many states, of entanglement, of, understanding that healing in community is better than, you know, isolated kind of, healing. Mhmm. And and we kind of framed QueerQuest, with quantum mechanics and use quantum as, like, a framework for liberation. So all of our our workshops and our, questions, they they hit upon really complex concepts for, like, the general audience. Right?
But what we saw was that there's language in the mental health space that mirrors a lot of the quantum mechanical concepts. It was so cool. It really was. And it wouldn't have like, those really awesome cross pollination conversations wouldn't have happened if we didn't have both therapists and scientists in the room. Mhmm. And I think, like, we've grown together because of those conversations, and it was just wild to see that kind of mirrored back
to us. Mhmm. And one of I think the one of the, like, most meaningful meaningful feedback that I got was from sisters. One of them is a physicist, and the other one is a mental health therapist. And they said that their relationship was changed because of QueerQuest. Yeah. They they said that they weren't able to talk to each other, that the languages that each were using within their careers were, like, isolated and separate. But QueerQuest was able to give them language
to shared language. Shared language. And now they're discussing. So, the physicist is a science communicator and educator, and she teaches teachers to teach science. And now they're having conversations about, like, let's expand that and use language, like science communication language to help mental health therapists expand how they help with healing and and therapy. Okay. It
was wild. It was just wild. Like And I think that was also that was part of the hope for us in bringing together these two communities at an event like this. I mean, it's us. Right? We have come to an understanding of each other throughout the last fifteen years and have a shared language about how we talk about science and mental health. And, I think just destigmatizing the conversations Both on both ends. On both ends. Right? We had therapists saying, I'm just, quote, unquote,
a therapist. Like, what am I doing with these scientists? Mhmm. And then we had scientists being like, woah. My mind is blown about what you just said about, like, mental health, like, in the context of what I just explained with regards to quantum physics. And so it really it was so cool to see these communities come together and create and demystify, destigmatize both fields and create a shared language, where, just the connections were amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
Most of the people who listen to this probably won't have been to QueerQuest. So can can you tell me what people would experience when they were there? Oh, man. It was magical. So QueerQuest, we wanted it to be a space where black, brown, queer folk were centered and prioritized, where we we kind of said it was like a unconference conference. So we baked in time for rest and regulation. We baked in time for community building, and baked in those, like, spaces for conversation.
So our days both days started out with a cosmic awakening slash grounding ceremony. So well, it started out with breakfast because food is important. In our communities in in our cultures, we build community around food. So that was also a very intentional space that we created. Yeah. We had so many people. We we had a local chef from Chicago, black, queer owned, and, he just pulled out all the stops for
breakfast. And we got so many comments talking about, oh, we thought this was just gonna be, like, a sad continental breakfast, both, like, with bagels and cream cheese. He invited us into his home. It felt like we were sitting around his family kitchen table, and that that's what we wanted. That's what started off our event. Yes. And then we moved into to our morning ritual, which was a thirty minute grounding ceremony. One day, we had yoga, and the other day, I think, we had reflections,
and intention setting. So that started Those two things started off the day. Then we moved into a keynote, where on day one, we had Jessica and, Desiree Whitmore, our laser physicist.
Who weaved or who both set the stage for quantum mechanics, mental health, nonbinariness, and, yeah, really just looking into the, like, fabric of our universe to highlight and uplift the experiences and journeys that we as queer people are taking and really just kind of showing that in the quantum realm, our nonbinariness, our weirdness, our queerness is actually more integrated into the fabric of space time than society is letting on, than society is telling us.
And then we moved into the really cool part of the day, which was the multiverse. And we transformed, the gym at the center on Halsted here in Chicago, which is three full sized volleyball courts. So it is massive. We transformed that into our, quote, unquote, multiverse, and you just walked in, and there were just these huge arches that said you belong here. They were purple. They had all of our branding. Anyways, we had our, we had Galaxy on the Go, which is a mobile Planetary.
Planetarium and just designed a really amazing Visual video film, that kind of walk through our past, queer ancestors, moved into our modern movement builders, where we highlighted, scientists core scientists from 500 core scientists, and then we moved into what the future could be, all in five minutes. And then we had our resource village, which had community partners from all around Chicago Both in STEAM and in mental health. That our attendees could engage with, talk with, get resources
Yeah. Adler port planetarium was, in attendance. We had the Chicago Science and Technology, c two s t, Chicago Therapy Collective. The Depth Collective Yeah. Which is an amazing small group practice here in Chicago, mental health. And then we had our rest and regulation lounge, which I think was probably the highlight for a lot of people. Mhmm. That's where we had our cosmic awakenings in the morning. And then we had hammocks. We had biofeedback pods, which was really like a four foot beanbag
inside of a pod we created. Mhmm. And each pod, we had three, had a different tech inspired Biofeedback tool Yeah. To really show I mean, we as scientists I can speak for myself that the journey towards recognizing and and understanding and validating my mental health journey has been hard. Not only because I'm part of the black and Mexican community where, like, mental health, we're still working through shame. Right? But also in physics, like, there is shame around
recognizing your mental health. Like, I am a late stage, ADHD diagnosed person. And I've talked to scientists that say I also have ADHD, but I don't talk about it because I don't want people to think any less of me as a scientist. So I really wanted to, have technology that we're comfortable with that we probably help develop in some way or fashion to show that meditation and and calmness really does affect our nervous system, for the better. So it was real time
biofeedback to show. And people were so proud. They were quoting their numbers back to us. Like, you go in and you start with the meditation app, and, it gives you your number of, like, where your heart rate, your all of your resting stuff is at. And then, it walks you through the meditation. And, I mean, the numbers were significant decrease. Yeah. And the other thing I'll say about the rest and regulation lounge was we had people falling asleep in the in our hammock.
And, you know, I thought in the moment that was amazing and and what we wanted, but it took another therapist, like, reflecting back to me how meaningful that was. And they said, like, you don't understand what it takes to get someone to feel safe enough to feel like they can fall asleep in a public place with people they don't know around them. Mhmm. So you need to kind of, like, let that sink in about
the space y'all have created here. And I also want to kind of underscore that because center on Halsted is fifteen minutes away from Broadview where there's an ice camp. When we were doing, you know, walk throughs and tech checks and meeting, you know, with vendors at the center on Halsted, we're going back and forth in a very, like, high tension area. We were scared of driving.
And the fact that we were able to create a a sanctuary, a space for people to feel safe enough to rest, right, As marginalized people who are scared of the current climate, who are scared of the current environment that we are living in, that was Yeah. Alright. That was deep. That's a lovely, lovely, lovely thing. What isn't a lovely thing that you just mentioned is the current climate. Can you tell me a bit about how it feels living in
where you're living now? Or I mean, we're probably 20 miles outside of Chicago where we live, and ice has made its way to lots of pockets around us. And I would say that I know Chicago gets a bad rap and has a bad rap, but being this sort of war torn city that media is making it out to be, it's just not. It's so I mean, Chicago loves Chicago, and we are gonna take care of each other always. And and you can't push Chicagoans around.
Like, the fact that they have come that we have come together, and I don't even know how to explain it. I mean, go ahead. What breaks my heart is that it's we are all everything not everything was fine, but we did not have the government we did not have the violence that the government is Dropping in. Dropping into our state, our cities. Like, they are aggravating the people. We were just fine. And then they brought the national guard, and then they brought ICE. And they are intentionally
creating conflict and causing harm. And it just it breaks my heart because what is the reason? Yeah. There's no reason for this. Yeah. I think in 2020, in 2021, I lost my dad. We had the peak civil unrest in our country, and I threw myself into work, and I threw myself into, like, movement building and activism. And I was consuming and consuming and consuming every aspect of media because I felt like I just needed to be in it. I needed to see what was going on.
And this time around, for my mental health because that broke me. Like, my body shut down. This time around, I recognized the need to have boundaries, like, around my my peace and focus on creating spaces that I had the power to create. And I think that's where QueerQuest comes in. And it was hard. It was it has been hard this whole year to kind of keep our eyes on QueerQuest when there's so much going on around us on a day to day that it feels like what is the point.
So many times I was there throughout the process of what is the point of this silly event. And then the event happens, and you hear from everyone how much they needed this. And you're like, oh, that's why we did it. So you did create QueerQuest. It happened. There's a few things about it which I don't know what they mean, and perhaps Emily can help me with this. What what's liberation? That's a good question.
Liberation for me, I think, means just feeling like we are free from the systems that we are forced to exist in. I think it's feeling free to be creative, to build our own systems, to live outside of the systems that we're forced to live in. It means deciding, like, okay. Yes. I live in The United States. There are systems I must, like, I keep saying live in, but that doesn't mean I can't do anything about it. That doesn't mean I'm powerless. That means
I there are choices. I have agency, and I can use my autonomy to build something new and different. Yeah. I totally agree that it it it comes down to autonomy and agency. And in some of these in the in this climate Mhmm. Sometimes it feels like we have no agency over ourselves. The kind of beautiful moments of of realizing the common language between the this kind of healing and and quantum world. But is there are there tensions there as well that you have to be aware of? Yes. Probably.
But when you bring together black, brown, and queer folk who are used to world building to create spaces of comfort, of safety. Mhmm. The creativity and the innovation and the resilience is baked into that community already. Mhmm. So, like, I mean, I'm a science communicator. Right? And I've had conversations where I'm using QueerQuest as a QueerQuest. Quantum mechanics as a framework for liberation or quantum mechanics as, kind of a mirror to queerness in
predominantly white spaces. And there is pushback. There is but hold on. Or, you know, you didn't accurately represent what superposition actually is. And there isn't a one to one, you know, mirror to, you know, whatever. Like, you do get that pushback. Right? There is this, like, pontification and and, academic, rigor that, like, bubbles up to the surface more so than when you're in community
with folks that look like you. I don't know how to explain it, but there is just so much more willingness to receive this complex, intricate entanglement of different languages and different Mhmm. Career and Trajectory. I really hate to state the obvious, but I think there is something about being in non white spaces that allows that to happen because I think there there's something true for that about mental health therapists as well.
The way that we are able to talk and engage differently without the pontificating and the holding on to theory, we are so like, therapists can be very Rigid. Rigid about us scientists. About. And in this space, it was just learning for learning's sake. Mhmm. Trying something new or thinking about something in a new way
for fun. Just playing. Without being like, oh, well, you you got that theory wrong, or how dare you say mental health is x y z. Or there's just without what feels like without the oversight of white folks, black and brown people can just create create. Speaking of liberation, that's is kind of what it felt like.
Yeah. The keynote speeches that you're having, are they predominantly about the science So day one, we opened up with quantum mechanics and what it meant and how it maps onto our lives as queer folk, and really just kind of setting the stage for what was to come in the, the event. And then Desiree Whitmore, she's the director of education at the Exploratorium in San Francisco, really took what I said and made it real.
And we had hands on activities, where we were seeing kind of, like, superposition and entanglement in real time. And we got feedback where, like, people were in the room being like, oh, I don't know what the hell this is. I I don't know if I'm in the right space. I don't know if I can understand quantum. Right? And Desiree, like, solidified that for them. And throughout the rest of the the events, they it clicked. They got why therapists and scientists
were hanging out together. Mhmm. And then for day two, we moved into kind of theory to practice, really. And we had doctor Raquel Martin, who is, a educator, psychologist, scientist. She's in the social media streets as she likes to say. And she's the well known kind of, voice for, she calls it mental wealth. Not health, wealth, and specifically for for black women's mental wealth.
And, again, she just took some of the concepts that we talked about on day one and showed how they can be leveraged and used, when we're talking about our mental health.
I think I'm just thinking because from a science communication point of view, quite apart from anything else, for just from the science communication point of view, having the space after you've had talks about and demonstrations of quantum mechanics, having the space to just think be, it's just a a really beautiful I'm just remembering when we spoke, several years ago, Jessica, when you you were talking to me about quantum foam and all these kind of things, I was like, wow. This is amazing.
And what I could have done immediately after that conversation was, you know, go back to the day job and do some research into something else, but I didn't. I went for a walk, you know, amongst nature. And it just it it the the the concepts and, well, the experiments that are in, quantum mechanics are they deserve that time. So I think it's brilliant. Just from a science communication point of view,
that that's how you designed it. Were you thinking about that as well from a science communication point of view when you were putting it together? I I think so. It's such a difficult concept even for me as a scientist who spends all my time in the quantum realm to, like, grasp. Right? And I think having space where you can, like, Rubik's cube it, right, and look at these concepts in such a different way and situate them in your day to day lives Mhmm. Makes it so that you
under like, you you grasp it better. And to me, the, like, we did the damn thing for me was our videographer. On the last day, on the last interview that we had with him was saying, okay. Now tell me about the quantum mechanics and nonbinariness and and the superposition of states and how that wraps into what you created here at QueerQuest. He was mirroring back to us the quantum mechanical aspects of the of the conference that we had been talking about for two
days. Yeah. You could really tell he had been listening. We did an interview on day one and day two. And at the end of day two, when the whole thing was over, you could just tell by the questions he was prompting us with Mhmm. That he had been listening to everything that had been happening, and that, like, that's it for us. Yeah. We want we want science and mental health to be accessible and a tool people can use and
have fun with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we were also really intentional with all of our, like, parallel sessions, and our panels. There was a scientist and a mental health expert on each parallel, session. And, oh, man, the conversations that were happening were wild. Mhmm. So I'm just remembering one at the decolonizing therapy and science session. And our our therapist was talking about anxiety, I think. Right? Mhmm. And and and how difficult it is to meditate and to regulate
the, like, anxious thoughts in your brain. Mhmm. And she stated something like, it starts with being able to observe the thoughts that are happening in your brain. And once you're able to observe them, you can essentially quiet them. And our scientist was like, holy shit. You just described the observer effect. You collapsed superposition of states in your brain by observe I know. I'm getting chills. Blow my mind. So those are the types of conversations that were happening all throughout
the the event. Mhmm. And it was just like and and you should have seen how geeked out our panelists were. They were like and then after the session, they talked for over an hour just, I think, swapping languages, right, and building that shared language of let me, you just explained this, and holy crap. This is what you just explained. Mhmm. That and so much of the time and and at the beginning of the conference, the therapists were kind of like, oh, we're just therapists. This is all we do.
Like, put next to a scientist. We we just do this. Mhmm. But by the end of it, it was so cool to see, like, oh, science actually isn't that hard. No. Yeah. Like, the concepts seem difficult. Yeah. Yeah. And there's and we all know that there's a hierarchy, right, of of science, right, and behavior science, especially in in western realms, it is deemed lesser than more objective or, quote, unquote, hard sciences.
But the same concepts, the same tools, of, like, cracking open things and understanding complex, beings, whether that be particles or people. They're the same tools that are that are being leveraged and they're that are being developed in these careers Mhmm. In these professions. Who are the people who are walking the floors at QueerQuest? Who are they? Where where where do they
come from? Are they all from Chicago? The furthest place we had someone come from was California, which is the opposite coast Yeah. From where we live. And then we had people from Michigan, from Tennessee, but it was largely Chicago. But we were so stoked that we even had out of town visitors. Mhmm. That was pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we built it with Chicago for Chicago. That was first and foremost. And when I say we built it with Chicago, it was small businesses. It was nonprofits.
It was, you know, black and brown, queer, people that said we need this space. What do you need from us? Mhmm. And we could not have built it without them. Because here in The States, probably similar over there, anything DEI related, nobody wants to touch with
a 10 foot pole. So we had, you know, plans of of of having sponsorships, having corporations, like, help fund this with us, But no one took our call from major corporations, and it was really small businesses and black, brown, queer owned community organizations who said, hell, yeah. Like, we don't have money, but we have people power. Yeah. We didn't have a production company. It was
largely us and volunteers that built it. And when you see what it looks like, that in and of itself is gonna blow you away. We'll send the video. Yeah. Like, this was community built through and through, and I think it's a testament to us. Chicago Yeah. Not being a war zone. Exactly. And just showing, like, you can you can try to keep us down, but we are so much powerful when we
come together. Yeah. The other side of it now, maybe it's the same advice you would have given before, but what what advice would you give to, you know, queer people who are in academia or stamina and are feeling isolated? I would start off with saying the feelings that you're feeling are valid. And I know that it feels isolating and that you're the only one going through that journey.
But finding language to identify, like, the microaggressions and the traumas that you're going through is very, powerful. And then being able to share that language with others and seeing that there's shared experiences across your field and across other fields, that is also, like, really powerful. And I think that for like, the system is working as designed. Mhmm. It's trying to keep us apart. It's trying to make us feel like we're crazy. It's trying to make us feel alone.
That is the way it was designed. So anything that we can do to counteract the feelings of isolation, the feelings of feeling crazy, the feelings of not belonging. That's how we break the system. Mhmm. So community is, like, one of the biggest ones, and developing language to, like, validate those experiences is really important. Yeah. And I would say just to remember that it's them, not you. Classic classic breakup advice. It's them, not you. It is the system.
And I would also add on as a mental health therapist that no degree, no job is worth your well-being. That's a hard one even for me. That is a hard one for Jess. She She didn't listen to it in grad school, and that's fine. But she found out the hard way on the other side when it took a toll on her body. And I I believe that. I believe that nothing is worth nothing is more important than your well-being, the job, the degree. So if it's not serving you,
you're not a tree. Move. Oh, you're not stuck anywhere. The system is designed to make you feel isolated. Talk to me about that. How is it designed in that way? The system, all systems, were designed by white men, colonial systems. And I don't believe that colonial systems want black and brown queer folks, anything that is different, working in those systems. Because as we saw with Pure Quest, when we have these folks come together, oh, we get new ideas. Oh, we get innovation.
Oh, we're gonna be like, you're not gonna push us around. Mhmm. There is so much power in community. But if you keep us siloed, the system wants us siloed. Because when we come together, when we realize that we are not each other's enemies, that we're actually our sisters, brothers, people's keepers, then we link arms, and and then they're scared and then they're scared. Right? Because now we're together.
Mhmm. But so long as we're siloed, we stay feeling crazy, and we stay feeling like we are not welcome. Yeah. Like, it's our problem. Like, we're the problem. That's that's it. Right? Like, once you start having the conversation with somebody that looks like you, that's going through the same journey, and you start seeing these, like, the the same things that you went through, they went through too. Now it's like, okay. Well, it wasn't my fault.
Like, this person across the country in a different physics department dealt with the same issues, the same barriers, the same, traumas that I did. Now now it's not a it's not a coincidence. Sorry. It's a trend. Mhmm. It's not a me problem. It's a you problem. Yeah. Yeah. And so long as the system keeps us focused and siloed on believing it is our problem, everything is our fault,
Guess what? We don't succeed because all we're doing in our spare time is spending so much time and energy and resources and mental capacity figuring out why the teacher looked at me like like that. Why did the teacher ask only me why I haven't been in class for weeks when maybe I have been in class every single week, but they didn't see me Mhmm. Because I didn't raise my hand? Or, like, the system keeps us in our head believing we have done something wrong.
Yeah. And when you're spending all that mental capacity on anxious thoughts about why shouldn't be here. What did I do? What did I was I too aggressive? You don't have enough space to innovate, to be creative, to see the world in Rubik's cube quantum mechanics. Like and and and I say that knowing that we, as black and brown people, are still so I almost cussed. Freaking resilient in these spaces. We are still innovating and driving change and creating new systems and and ways of being.
Just imagine if we didn't have to deal with this white capitalist system overbearing on us. Right? Like, woah. Yep. Yeah. I I see I'm I'm it's tempting to think it would be really nice if there was a world where you didn't have to have QueerQuest. But that would be a real shame because you wouldn't have all of this collaboration. I don't believe that. I just think it would be different. Like, the need would be different. Yeah. It wouldn't be to escape. It wouldn't it would be to come together.
That's true. Was, but the the framing, the jumping off point would be different. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. What what's next for Queer Quest? Does it come back? Are you doing it again? Em's not ready. I'm not ready. It's coming back. There will be a Queer Quest to the year two. The timing is we will have to discuss that. People also asked us at the event, will we be taking the show on the road? And that's probably not gonna happen quite yet. Yeah. We gotta do it do
it in Chicago. Do it with Chicago, our city. Make sure we we got it all all the kinks ironed out, and then maybe This is where we wanna build our community. Yeah. Then it can go forth from there. But Chicago showed up for us, and we're gonna show up for Chicago next next year Mhmm. The year after. But if if people were sort of thinking, oh, we we if we had that in our town, would would you be happy talk to people if they wanted to get in touch with you and and talk to them about it? Absolutely.
Yeah. Because these spaces are needed. And one of the things that we learned at QueerQuest is every single person has the power to build a community. Mhmm. It doesn't have to be on the scale of QueerQuest because I'm crazy. And my vision like, I'm a crazy visionary. Visionary. I I I have a specific way of things that I want to create and anyways, it doesn't matter. But a group chat. I mean, we have
a group chat, and it's soul filling. Just being able to have that space where we can build community is It really just takes the intention, the desire to do it, and then the intention to to bring it to life. Yep. Yep. We're happy to have that conversation.
A 100%. Yeah. If you would like to get in touch with Jessica and Emily about that and maybe see if they can help you arrange a similar sort of event where you are, then you can get in touch with them via the iNova website or indeed the Quick West website. I'd like to thank them both for joining me for this episode of the Physics
World Stories podcast. If you'd like to hear more from Jessica, and I don't know why you wouldn't, then I would recommend going back to the previous conversation we had on this podcast all about the muon mania. I'll post a link to that, of course, on the Physics World website alongside the article with this episode. And if this has whetted your appetite for even more quantum science and technology, this is, of course, the international year of just that.
And at Physics World, we have a smorgasbord of coverage spanning the history, mystery, and industry of quantum mechanics. We'll be back next month with something else from this wonderful world of physics, and thank you very much for listening.