Dana Skaggs (00:01.389) Welcome friends, whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Winnie Rogers. Now, Winnie is a dynamic real estate expert and marketing strategist with a fiery passion for teaching. Now, with over two decades of experience in digital and print marketing combined,
With her success as a top real estate agent in Charleston, South Carolina, Winnie brings a unique edge to everything that she does. Winnie, welcome to Phoenix in Flame. Winnie Rodgers (00:42.488) Thank you for having me, Dana. I appreciate it.
Dana Skaggs (00:45.869) This is wonderful. I guys we were winning. I were talking earlier before the podcast started and I said, I wished I'd hit record. I always do that. I start talking to my guests, trying to create some comfort and connection before we start recording. And then we say all these things and I'm like, wait, wait, wait. I want to record everything that we're saying. So just to kind of know that's a good one. We need to have that recorded. So really we were talking about how this podcast Phoenix and Flame.
Winnie Rodgers (01:03.79) You're like, that's a good one.
Dana Skaggs (01:13.527) the tagline is pushing through and transforming even when you feel like a pile of ash. And we've had so many absolutely wonderful guests on the podcast who've done amazing things, but we are interested also in the backstory. I love to hear biographies. I love to read biographies, finding out, you know, these people that we see that have accomplished so many things. But then with the biographies, you find out from the backstory.
You know, what did they go through? What was hard for them? What were their failures? How did they come through? That's the essence of Phoenix in Flame. It's like, what was the fire? What was it that just you felt burnt you down to ash? What did it feel like to sit in that ash pile, not knowing if you were going to rise or not? And then what helped you to rise into the Phoenix? And those stories, I think, are very fascinating. So, Wendy, when you think about all of that, and you kind of had shared with me at some point about experiencing some turmoil,
in your life because you weren't really paying much attention to your intuition. Dana Skaggs (02:17.551) I can't hear you. can edit this part out. I can't hear you, Winnie. Dana Skaggs (02:29.017) Can you hear me? Dana Skaggs (02:39.449) Okay, say something. Do you hear me? Ha This is technology again. Dana Skaggs (02:51.875) Hmm. Dana Skaggs (02:56.825) I don't know what's going on. Can you hear me?
Winnie Rodgers (03:14.913) Okay, I can hear you now, but without my headphones. Do you think I should just move on? Because I didn't hear any of that, unfortunately. Dana Skaggs (03:16.931) I can hear you now. Dana Skaggs (03:26.329) Hmm. Winnie Rodgers (03:28.312) I'm going to try again this. Dana Skaggs (03:32.983) Yeah, what? Do you know what happened?
Winnie Rodgers (03:36.052) my phone started ringing, but I pressed do not disturb, so that's frustrating, but and then I don't know if it just like picked up my headphones or what. Let me try this again. Winnie Rodgers (03:50.443) Okay. Dana Skaggs (03:50.809) Hmm. So is that, you in a situation, is your phone gonna ring again? Is it gonna knock you off again? Or can you set up on a laptop or something that your phone line's not gonna come through or?
Winnie Rodgers (03:53.656) Yeah, I can hear you again. Winnie Rodgers (04:00.149) I shouldn't. Winnie Rodgers (04:04.087) Yeah. Winnie Rodgers (04:11.436) I have it on Do Not Disturb, so I put my laptop on it, but I guess I didn't put, that doesn't put my phone on it. So now the phone's on Do Not Disturb. Dana Skaggs (04:22.229) Okay. All right. I'm going to all this part. We'll just keep going. All this part I'll edit out. But basically, so when I was doing all the intro, were not hearing that.
Winnie Rodgers (04:23.165) Okay. Winnie Rodgers (04:27.416) Okay. Winnie Rodgers (04:33.056) I heard the intro part about me. That's kind of where I was. Where, yeah. Dana Skaggs (04:36.066) Mm-hmm.
Okay, then basically I was just telling the listeners what we had talked about beforehand about the pushing through and transforming even when you feel like a pile of ash and you know what that I like to my guests to talk about you know all the stuff we talked about beforehand about what was the fire in your life that that you know created that issue for you and what did it feel like to sit in that pile of ash not knowing if you're going to get out of it and then Winnie Rodgers (04:58.337) Yeah.
Dana Skaggs (05:05.281) rising like the phoenix. in that whole process. So basically it was just I was explaining to the listeners what we had talked about before. And then I said, and then we'll pick this up. And then I said, you had shared with me before about experiencing turmoil in your life where you didn't pay attention to your intuition. Winnie Rodgers (05:12.898) Okay.
Winnie Rodgers (05:25.664) Yes. Yeah. So there was a point in my life when, when I felt like intellectually, nothing was wrong. And I had, you know, grown up in this society, right? Where all of us are, where we trust our brains first and foremost. And then we kind of start to ignore these other resources of our body, of our intuition. And then of course, of others, you know, of our family and our friends. And so Dana Skaggs (05:27.052) Okay, now.
Winnie Rodgers (05:53.664) you know, intellectually, it's like on paper, everything seems fine. It's like, what's wrong? And, you know, but stopping now, you know, I realized it was like my body telling me something was wrong. was like a deeper connection to something was wrong. And I was doing that thing where you almost are standing outside of, of your body, kind of just looking down and you're like, what is actually wrong? Like nothing is wrong here.
And but I found that when you're doing that, it's because you're disconnecting, you know, from from reality like during that. And so I just started in investigating. Really, that was a huge part of it was just getting curious. Like, what is this? Dana Skaggs (06:31.275) Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Dana Skaggs (06:43.509) I that. I love the way you put about getting curious. I say that a lot with my patients and my practice because then it creates an atmosphere where it's not judgmental and you can just look at it from a point of curiosity. Like you said, like, is curious. What's going on here? It kind of brings the pressure down. It opens us up to just...
sort of lift up the hood a little bit and say, hmm, what's that rattle I hear in my car? I just want to investigate and see what's going on. Winnie Rodgers (07:07.925) Yeah.
Winnie Rodgers (07:14.4) Yeah. And to be fair, it did not start like that. It started with full on judgment, you know, like coming from like, wait a second, almost like, shame or confusion. so the curiosity part happened whenever I started to get help and talk to people about it and, kind of, you know, learn this new language of how to also how to talk to myself whenever I was confused by what was, what was happening. you know.
Dana Skaggs (07:46.047) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and these usually when we are having those experiences of dissociating or detaching and feeling like we're kind of next to ourself watching scenarios, we're really feeling rather emotionally traumatized. And those experiences and those traumas impact us both in our private life and our personal life and also can also impact us at work and our effectiveness at work.
So when you are going through this, this experience, I mean, obviously, as with anyone, share whatever you're comfortable sharing. You everyone's story is unique and you you share what you're comfortable sharing about how it was impacting you personally with relationships or whatever. And also, it it flowing over into your work life or was your work life totally separate or how did that play out for you? Winnie Rodgers (08:19.937) Yeah.
Winnie Rodgers (08:35.712) Yeah, I feel like I, whether it was a spot of kind of like digging in for control, you know, like, like the work life stayed really steady. I knew that that was a place where I had already built flow. So I had already understood my value system. Why is it related to like work and my clients? And I had already, like built the patterns and the systems and the habits and the rituals and the routines, which
What I didn't have is those for my personal life. So I had all the habits, you know, and all that kind of stuff for my business world. So honestly, it was still trucking along great. But what I know is that whenever your personal life is in turmoil, you know, obviously it does affect your business life. So, you know, my question would be, you know, what, what if my personal life had been amazing and I had all of the rituals set up for my business? Like in theory, my business could have, you know, exploded even more.
Having said that, so I then had to like backtrack and do the work for my personal life. It's kind of funny. A lot of people think that they know themselves better, but I felt like I knew my business better than I knew myself at that time. I was like, this is predictable. Yeah.
Dana Skaggs (09:49.655) That's interesting. Well, and you're bringing up some fantastic points because you were saying basically at work, you had structure and you had organization and you had routine and we thrive on that and that makes us feel safe, you see. And what you're also describing in a sense are boundaries. And for those that know me, that's my big passion is boundaries. I have a personal story about that and I see it all the time in my practice.
And it's like what you're describing is at work, we do have boundaries. We go into work, we know generally speaking when to show up and when to leave and what we're supposed to do when we're there. The relationships that we have with our boss, our coworkers, whatever, our clients are defined. And so it helps us feel a little safer. But sometimes in our private lives and our personal lives, setting those boundaries are harder to do. And so we don't feel as safe. What was your experience with that?
Winnie Rodgers (10:45.559) Yeah. I would definitely agree. I mean, there's so much nuance and that's one of the things like I've come to learn in general. I have a, you know, I come like most people like very black and white boxes, right? You know, good and bad, black and white, yes and no. And like when it comes to personal things, there's so much more nuance and gray matter and that like middle space and kind of paradoxical things. And so,
you want to sometimes go outside of your value system because you love someone so much and you're like, well, this is my value system is like to be loving. But then you realize, you know, sometimes that you're abandoning yourself, even if it feels aligned with your values to care for someone else, for instance, just as an example. But by way of caring for them, if it's going to affect your value systems, it's going to create turmoil. And so like, Dana Skaggs (11:47.534) Mm-hmm.
Winnie Rodgers (11:48.618) I was coming out of really just going full force into real estate and going from two incomes to one income. And during that time, I thought I was on top of the world because my business was going crazy. But my personal life, was definitely rediscovering myself. And so this was several years ago. It was kind of like...
rediscovering myself, going out, meeting all of these new people that I never had the opportunity to have met and kind of figuring out who I am. And part of it almost felt like a return to me, like that wild teenager kind of energy came back, which I had really loved. But after doing that for a while, like say for instance, drinking and just like going out, staying up late.
which is something that's very prevalent in the real estate world. Like it's a big thing. So just, but there's so much big thinkers and big conversations and big talking that you don't want to leave those spaces. And then meanwhile though, you're like, there's so much interest, there's so many like interesting things happening and interesting people out there, but you realize like, is that even who you are? Dana Skaggs (13:02.519) Mm-hmm.
Winnie Rodgers (13:13.208) Is that even like who you want to be? Do you want to be them? Do you want to be there with them? Do you want to be outlaid or doing these things versus like, where's that back to you versus is that just like something shiny and interesting and new? I think it like took a while to figure out that while I'm good at that, it isn't who I am. I think that was one of the realizations. Dana Skaggs (13:14.018) Mm-hmm. Dana Skaggs (13:36.974) Mm-hmm.
Wow, I love everything that you're saying. And as you're talking, my brain is going in several different directions and I'm known for just going there, going to the place. And one of the things that I'm thinking about is to be honest, like it or not, us females, we have to be aware that if we're solo and single or sometimes not even any matter,
if we're single or not. And if we're into, you know, we're an entrepreneurial space and we're going out, like you're describing this scenario that makes perfect sense. So, you know, you're going out, you're very shiny, you're out, you're whining, dining, if you're into sales, you know, and you're going out. And like you said, you don't want to leave the table because who knows, you know, what deals are going to be made, what connections are going to be made. You know, you want to be there because you want to be part of that because that's going to help your business. But also, I feel like
Winnie Rodgers (14:16.694) We're very shiny. Dana Skaggs (14:37.623) that might be difficult at times because I feel like some people might expect boundaries to be crossed and or try to cross boundaries that are inappropriate. I mean, you may or may not have experienced something personally. I would imagine you probably know of stories of women who I mean, let's just be real. I mean, let's just not act like that's not happening. I mean, we women, we get out there in sales and things happen.
And sometimes, but we're one of the guys until we're not, until they don't want us to be. then the tables start shifting. And I'm just kind of wondering for, if I have any listeners out there, any women who are experiencing that and wanting some pieces of advice, some words of wisdom, something that they're trying to build their business, they're trying to be an entrepreneur, but they're in a space where they're out with men, they're having to go out and have drinks at night.
Winnie Rodgers (15:07.692) We're one of the guys, but we're not actually. Yeah. Yeah. Dana Skaggs (15:38.673) What would you recommend if they're listening to you right now? Like you said, they don't want to walk away from the table and leave because there's going to be a deal that they want to be a part of. But like you said earlier, are they willing to cross that line? Winnie Rodgers (15:49.72) Yeah.
Yeah, and I definitely have experienced and seen things that just, you know, that just give you that ick feeling. And that's what, that is definitely what I'm talking about with like not following my intuition and just, you know, just going forward and just kind of that, well, you're the cool girl, you know, that cool girl vibe, the, you know, we're cool with anything, like we're down. And, but ultimately at the end of the day, like what I found is that I'm actually not.
Dana Skaggs (16:01.849) Mm-hmm. Winnie Rodgers (16:24.19) So, but I guess for advice, I would say one of the things that I didn't do was I didn't have a strong group of women around me. I mostly had, I had a decent amount of men around me and I trust them and I still trust them. So it isn't that, but I didn't have that group of women around me to almost to check me, to challenge me, to offer feedback, to...
question me and to get into my heart and soul and like figure out like, where are you in this Winnie? this really, you know, like what you want to do, is this really okay? So I think like having a really good group of supportive females and making sure that, you know, if you are living that lifestyle, because there's, mean, if you aren't in sales, that's, I mean, that's it. Like even to this day, like that's,
part of my, like, in my lifestyle. Like, I travel, I go to dinners, there's happy hours, things like that. But I definitely have more accountability around that now. And also, I would say having that place to return to, to recharge. That is a huge, huge thing for me is I have created rituals and routines at home and habits that have helped,
bring me back to me so that I don't question who I am. Because there was definitely a place where I was that I was like, is this even me anymore? Or is this just who I think people want me to be or something? And that's so outside of me because I mean, honestly, I preach authenticity in my marketing and in my real estate. So I was like, Winnie, you're being a little bit out of integrity in this. But having said that, I didn't know better yet. I didn't realize that I was.
doing the work to self-discover and identify what really is important to me, not just intellectually, but in my heart and in my gut, so those body checks, and then adding those rituals for when you get home or when you get to your safe place to recharge, because some of those experiences can be depleting if they're out of alignment. So it's like, anything that's out of alignment, you can do it for a short period of time, don't get me wrong, but you can't do it for a lifetime.
Dana Skaggs (18:43.895) Mm-hmm. Winnie Rodgers (18:51.104) because it will totally, it'll destroy you. mean, I feel. Dana Skaggs (18:51.769) Right.
Well, like you said, it's not lined with who you are as a person. And you know, when you think about, I kind of, I view things a lot through a boundaries lens because it's just kind of how my brain processes and there's about yeses and there's about nos. And what I'm hearing you, the yeses are making sure that you are bringing in those strong women to encourage, to mentor, to give you ideas, to have your back, to challenge you, to... Winnie Rodgers (19:22.882) Yeah.
Dana Skaggs (19:23.149) to say, hey, you're kind of skidding sideways or are you aware of these danger areas? mean, the ones that have been in the business longer or whatever and they've been through some things and they can kind of share, hey, you may not be aware, but you're getting ready to possibly go into something that's a little bit dicey, a little bit risky, let's build you up, let's make you strong. So that would be a huge yes, right? For yes, yes, yes, bringing all these strong, wonderful, creative women around you.
And also the other side is no, which is that's a side that I've run into with females have a harder time with the no and something specific when you have women who are in businesses that are dominated at times by males. And sometimes just be brutally honest. Sometimes there's a situation and I'm not making this up, right? Where you're sitting next to someone, a male who's in some kind of a power position.
right? And he's laying his hand on your your leg or your knee or some such thing. The question that was posed to me at one point by a woman that I was interacting with, she said, because we were talking about boundaries, and she said, I need to know how to say no without
burning that bridge because she says, let's be real. mean, he has power. I can't afford to burn that bridge. Let's be real and honest about this. But at the same time, I don't want him to think that this is going to be going in some direction that I'm not comfortable with. And so I was wondering, yeah, yeah. So like the. Winnie Rodgers (20:45.901) Mm. Winnie Rodgers (20:56.182) Yeah, and you can only play it off so much. Like, ha ha ha, know, kind of like...
Dana Skaggs (21:06.449) One of the things that I found helpful and I'm really wondering what your experience has been and your words of wisdom here is how can we say no, but in a very diplomatic fashion, you know, way that we can do whether we're doing it with our body, whether we're doing with our words, where we're saying no without actually saying the words no, but we can say no, we can say that, but some women are very uncomfortable just saying no, stop that.
but we could possibly give them some other choices of what to do and what to say, like when they're traveling and they're out and it's happy hour and people haven't had a few drinks and feeling like, hey, hey, hey. So we just have to be honest about this when we're traveling a lot, when we're in sales, it happens. It happens. And so I'm trying to speak to women out there who are trying to be rock stars in their jobs and they're out there, you know, rocking it and they're traveling and they're doing the things. And then they find themselves
Winnie Rodgers (21:51.542) Yeah, it does. Dana Skaggs (22:04.939) in these awkward situations of needing to have that connection, not wanting to burn the bridge, but they don't want to go there. No judgment on somebody that does. Everybody's different. Everybody's walking their own path, but I'm talking to the women that want to say no and don't know how. What are your suggestions for those women? Winnie Rodgers (22:13.292) Yeah.
Winnie Rodgers (22:26.188) I mean, I think one of the best suggestions would simply be a redirect of the conversation, like bring up something more professional and just almost create like a Pavlovian response of like every time, anytime it goes like a little bit there, like a little bit to the edge, then bringing it back to something work-related. Like part of me even says, you know, bringing it back to, how's your daughter? You know, or something like that. You know, I've done that before.
Dana Skaggs (22:53.913) How's your wife been? Winnie Rodgers (22:55.584) Yeah, it's like, she's doing great. So I think part of it is kind of bringing it back to where it is. And then the other thing is, hey, I don't feel comfortable with that. And then I do think there is something to be said for putting a hand up. That's my personal, I don't know if that's, it's almost like a visual cue of a boundary. And then one of the things that I've done too many times and I feel like I am,
overdoing this is the kind of laugh it off. Like I'm beyond the, ha ha, like that's like, don't you be doing that anymore? You know, kind of like being silly about it. It's definitely like, hey, that's not cool, man. And just stopping. One of the things that I've also done and I've had to do this via text actually just recently is, you know, someone asked me out for dinner and I was like, and it's somebody that I know in a professional way. And so I just said,
You know, I'm not interested in having dinner with you and then stop. Whereas in the past, I would have given a reason. I would have given an excuse. I would have softened it so that it didn't hurt his feelings or something like that. But, but I feel like that almost like gives an excuse for them to, you know, find another route in, so to speak. So just simply stating without any excuse or any reasoning or any logic behind it.
Dana Skaggs (24:02.329) Winnie Rodgers (24:24.396) that is one of the things that I have found to be really effective.
Dana Skaggs (24:30.349) That's wonderful. You are preaching the whole boundary thing, you know, because no is a complete sentence and we are not obligated to give a reason for our nos. We can if we want to, that's our choice. But what I've discovered is I call it the noose because when we're talking to someone, they've asked us to do something and we say no and then we start to explain why. Winnie Rodgers (24:33.282) Yeah. Winnie Rodgers (24:39.617) Yes.
Dana Skaggs (25:00.907) then it's sort of like handing them rope and they're going to take that rope and yes, they're going to take that rope and they're going to make a noose out of it and they're going to hang us with our own words. But you know, for example, if you were to say, well, you know, I can't go out to eat dinner with you because I'm just, I'm just really tired. I've been sick lately and I just need to go home and I need to rest. Then naturally his response is going to be, yes, exactly. So see,
Winnie Rodgers (25:04.404) It's giving the ammunition. Yeah. Winnie Rodgers (25:24.726) What about next week? Dana Skaggs (25:28.813) He took the words and fashioned that, you know, rope into a noose and hung. So it's much more do- Yes, I mean-
Winnie Rodgers (25:33.196) Yeah. Which is fair, you know, because, because I said that the reason, if I said that the reason was because X, Y, and Z and, and there's a solution to X, and Z, then of course you're going to take it, you know? But if it's just, I'm not interested in that period pause. The pause is great too. Dana Skaggs (25:46.807) Mm-hmm.
Yes. And that's fantastic. I'm so glad that you've you did that. Yes, not. I'm not we can just say no, and we train people what to expect from us. So once you start training these individuals that you're just going to say no, thank you. And that's it, then they're going to learn that they can't manipulate you in that way. And that's a wonderful thing to teach someone. So the I was wondering, too, you're in real estate, which is entrepreneurial. Winnie Rodgers (26:01.165) Yeah.
Winnie Rodgers (26:10.273) Yeah. Winnie Rodgers (26:19.595) Mm-hmm. There it Dana Skaggs (26:19.605) And that is, it's scary in a sense because it's, I mean, it's fabulous and it's exciting and the potential is amazing. And also it's scary because it's a gamble. It's not like working for a company that you're going to get a set paycheck every single week or two weeks or a month. And it can be a huge boon or it can be a desert. So what has been Winnie Rodgers (26:35.286) Hmm?
Dana Skaggs (26:47.619) What has helped you to navigate these entrepreneurial waters?
Winnie Rodgers (26:53.888) Yeah. So I mean, that's one of the things in real estate and in sales, I feel like that's why they have that phrase, work hard, play hard. So that's why. And also we have found a lot in the entrepreneurial world. And I see this all the time where you don't always speak the same language as somebody that's in a nine to five kind of a setting. Like they don't understand the stresses of it because of the...
the inconsistent paychecks or things like that. So they don't quite understand it. So you need to definitely seek other people that have been through it, that have created structure enough to support the instability that is sales and entrepreneurship. So I'm a big systems person for sure. That helps me a lot.
And I definitely am really cognizant of who I surround myself with. and, you know, I'm definitely making sure that the other salespeople that I surround myself with aren't like, say, blaming the market or blaming clients or something like that, but that take extreme ownership in the success of their organization and their business. And that's one other thing I was thinking. But creating systems around it, having people
I definitely also have coaches around it that help with the mindset part of it. And one of the things I have found is that every time my business has slowed down, if I just continue to do the things that I'm supposed to do, it speeds back up. So there is a trust that I've been able to build in myself through honestly, time on task over time of, you it's been six years that I've been in this, in this industry. And every time I've had.
a bad month, I've followed it with a good month. So now I have this belief in myself that, I have a bad month. That means I'm about to have a good month. so just completely reframing those more challenging times, because I know that every time I've had a challenging time, it's been turned into a good time, a successful time. And so just going back to once again, like,
Winnie Rodgers (29:16.656) nurturing myself during that time. So it's like, this is it. All of the slow times for me are a time to build. There are time to get your systems more in place. There are time maybe to rest. There are time to, learn something new. So that's what I use that downtime for. because I've created these patterns now I know, it's downtime. it's time to learn something or to rest or to sharpen a system. And, and then it always comes out.
So, but you have to trust that. You have to trust that. The first couple of times I was like, Mayday, Mayday, I'm freaking out. Where's my next, know, paycheck gonna come from? So, but it happens. It's cyclical. The industry is cyclical, just like entrepreneurship in general is. Dana Skaggs (29:47.713) I love that. love that. do the same thing with a downspot. Yeah. Yeah, they're in.
Dana Skaggs (30:10.435) Well, and I think from listening to you give that answer that it seems like there's some personalities that are more designed for just a more corporate space where they're in there and they, there's more something that can depend on. They don't really have the personality for entrepreneurial. And then there's other people that the thought of going and working at a desk or an office or in a cubicle or whatever like that, they would just assume just scrape their face off with their fingernails. I mean, it's just,
Winnie Rodgers (30:39.458) Pretty much, yep. It's funny. Dana Skaggs (30:40.011) It's a very, you know, and I think it's very, we need to honor who we are as a person. You know, what is our natural personality style?
Winnie Rodgers (30:48.182) Yeah, a lot of people in my industry, the uncertainty is part of what drives them to success. And I have absolutely found that with me. If I don't know what my quarter four is going to look like or something like that, then that it almost is like a slingshot. I pull back and I'm like, and like study and contract and like get everything ready to go. Dana Skaggs (30:54.112) Okay.
Winnie Rodgers (31:16.312) So it creates this stress inside of me that I've been able to use to fuel me and I feel like that's definitely what a lot of of entrepreneurs do Having said that a lot of people I Mean in real estate alone. There's you know, an insane attrition amount like 90 % of agents something like that like quit in the first year so you have to like push past these
known markers for sustainability and you really, and have real questions with yourself and your partner, you know, like, is this actually okay for me? Like is this stress worth it? Like for me, the stress is worth it. It fuels my success. For other people, the stress tears them down. And then if I'm in it, when I was in a nine to five role, I haven't been in that role in over 11 years in like a kind of corporate world.
I was a bad employee. Like I wasn't, I was kind of middle of the road, not middle of the road, but just right at the top, just, just enough to get noticed and to get accolades. Cause I do like that. And then, but not enough, you know, I was still being told what to do. So I wanted to own what I do. So having that opportunity to own what I do. And then now my success or failure is 100, 100 % in my hands. is really empowering. It's scary, but it's empowering.
Dana Skaggs (32:46.027) Yeah. Well, I'm glad you found that and you honored that about yourself. And I would encourage, you know, anybody that's listening, whether your personality is leaning more toward really enjoying and being comfortable in that nine to five space or really needing to spread wings and kind of face like jump off the cliff into the entrepreneurial world, whichever it is, that's okay. But be very honoring of who you are and find something that resonates.
with you because if you have someone who's in an entrepreneurial space that their personality is really more for nine to five, it's not going to work out very well and vice versa. it's just like figure that out, you know. Winnie Rodgers (33:20.226) Yeah.
Winnie Rodgers (33:24.568) Yeah, yeah, definitely a lot of like soul searching and understanding, you know, and even like certain types of personality assessments, I think are wise to take so that you can just kind of like understand yourself better so that you know why it doesn't feel right. Once again, this comes back to our initial, you know, topic of like why intuitively like something feels off. You know, I, I, I teach it.
the local college here sometimes. And one of the things I've taught about, it's to the students that are about to go interview at companies. So I teach on the compensation panel, and then there's this other exhibit, whatever, where we give advice. And one of the things is I share with them, I'm like, you want to interview them just as much as they're interviewing you.
And also keep in mind that if you're there and you feel like something is off, it might not be the industry is off. It might be that the people are off, but that this is still your chosen industry. Cause I think a lot of the times people abandon an industry because they think something is wrong or they're not good at it, but it's the people or vice versa that, you know, the people are amazing, but the industry is out of alignment with who they are. really.
once again goes back to like they really have to discover themselves, but just know like it isn't necessarily that you're not good at it. It is that like there's something that is challenging or pushing against one of your boundaries or one of your values and you just haven't identified it yet. Cause it might not be the industry or the people. It might be something completely different.
Dana Skaggs (35:09.866) I like that. I like the way you're kind of breaking it down into different components for them to investigate and kind of see what exactly is it so they can make those choices. That's nice. So what I was going to ask you one of your questions is what's your go-to ritual for starting your day on a positive note? That that's a good question. So what what is your go-to ritual? Winnie Rodgers (35:18.753) Yeah.
Winnie Rodgers (35:32.152) have a very distinct ritual and it's very calming. So that's one of the things like in my world, I have to be on all the time. I have to entertain people. have to be smiling. I have to be shiny, like kind of all the time. Now I will say once people get to know me, they see who I am. You know what I mean? Like it's, and I don't have to, it isn't coming from a place of like,
disingenuousness, it's coming from a place of like, have a high energy. So when I'm home, I am very low energy. So my morning ritual is I read first thing in the morning for at least 30 minutes to an hour. And I just stay, usually I stay in bed or sometimes I'll sit on the porch. So it's just very calming. don't wake, I wake up pretty early, so it's still dark out. So it's, it's a way of.
still resting, like my mind and my body, while not going anywhere. And then whenever I leave, I come out and I have a big glass of cold water, and then I have my green drink. Say my green drink is probably like one of my most coveted things. I have a green drink every morning. And the funny thing is it isn't even about the green drink or what's in the green drink. It's the fact that I know that I'm loving myself and nurturing myself and feeding myself like something good.
in the morning. And then I usually at, at that point, we'll do some sort of breathing exercise just to get me grounded in the day. I'll light some sage or something like that. Smell is such an important part of ritual that I have, I have discovered it. I've been noticing it so much lately, how like certain smells could just like drop you in. So I like sometimes we'll light like Palo Santo or something. And then I start, I start working. I love.
working. I love my job. I love what I do. I love being on my computer. I love my projects. So that is exciting for me. And then usually I work for a little while and then get ready to go and then I'm out and about. I often don't do appointments before say 10 or 11 so that I have like a very nurturing time in the morning so that it's just totally about me. Winnie Rodgers (37:55.872) Music sometimes, no music sometimes, but quiet, like soft, no matter what it is, just very calming.
Dana Skaggs (38:02.793) Mm-hmm. It sounds very calming and it sounds, you know, you're very centering and it's very grounding and you're kind of just setting the stage to walk into that day so you're not knocked sideways. You've grounded yourself very well and centered yourself into... It kind of reminds me, there's a quote in Fergie's song, Big Girls Don't Cry. I know this was an old, old song, but...
there's a line in there that I never forgot and she said, I need to be with myself at center. And that sounds like what you were doing. You were getting yourself at the center and calming yourself down and grounding yourself so that then you can go out into the world. Now, tell me, Winnie Rodgers (38:37.464) Hmm. I like that. I'm that down.
Winnie Rodgers (38:50.23) Yeah. And it's just like a return so that I remember to return to me because in the past I hadn't returned to me. So it's like the return to me. Dana Skaggs (39:02.028) I like that. I like that a lot. Winnie Rodgers (39:03.648) It's like, it's the memory of it kind of, and the habit of, okay, return back, return back. Yep.
Dana Skaggs (39:07.645) And just returning back and returning back. Yeah, it's like bass, you know, it's like coming back to bass. It's like coming back to home base. So you can you can go out and whatever, but you always got to come back to home base. That's that's where it that's where the centering is. Winnie Rodgers (39:14.388) Mm-hmm. Totally.
Winnie Rodgers (39:25.578) Yes, yes. And sometimes that can be a person or a place, you know, or, and, you know, the hope is that you find it within yourself, you know, or a combination of all of those is really great. So, I mean, even I travel, I travel a lot and I bring the like travel versions of my green drink and, you know, the whole nine yards and even just like practice my Dana Skaggs (39:33.059) Mm-hmm.
Winnie Rodgers (39:49.73) breathing at the airport and things like that because it's so noisy and I just want to just be centered and just, especially before I go deliver a lot, because I teach and I love to teach. It's so amazing. So I'm giving a lot. So I just want to, yeah, it is that like centering no matter where I am.
Dana Skaggs (40:10.854) So Winnie, what I have here for my listeners to be able to access you more if they want to know more about you, get in touch with you, whatever that, I have your Instagram, Instagram.com slash Winnie, W-I-N-N-I-E, and company. Is that how you want them to reach you? Winnie Rodgers (40:26.39) Yes. Yes, that's perfect.
Dana Skaggs (40:31.897) I'll put that in the show notes, listener. So if you're out jogging or walking, I'll have it in the show notes. All right. Winnie, I appreciate your time. Winnie Rodgers (40:33.1) Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. And then for teach. Thank you so much. Yeah. It was a, it was a pleasure. was, I didn't, I was going to say, my, my classes are based in like values and branding your, your values. And so they can go to winnie Rogers.com as well to look more about my teaching style.
Dana Skaggs (40:46.647) Now what did you start to add? Dana Skaggs (41:02.137) Okay, I'm writing that down. Winnie Rodgers (41:03.97) Perfect. Dana Skaggs (41:06.475) I'll put both of those things in the show notes. Dana Skaggs (41:14.156) Awesome.
Winnie Rodgers (41:14.392) It's funny, I didn't know where we were going to take it today, but I love that we took it to women protecting themselves and learning to identify what is okay and then creating that safe space for sure. So thank you for the opportunity to share that. Dana Skaggs (41:33.03) Absolutely. Thank you for the connection and this time. Winnie, thank you for gracing us with your knowledge and your experience and your transparency and your time today. Thank you very, very much.
Winnie Rodgers (41:45.922) Thank you. Have a good one.
Dana Skaggs (41:48.729) All right, listeners, I know that you have heard Winnie say multiple things today that you're thinking, my gosh, I have a best friend or a family member or a coworker that really needs to hear what Winnie Rogers has to say. Take this episode, copy and paste the link in your text, in your email, post it on your favorite social media platforms so that we can grow our Phoenix and Flame community and learn and teach and show people that they are not alone.
We're in this together. I'm Dana on Phoenix in Flame.