Phi - Lacrosse - Ophy Podcast Season 6 Ep 8 - Colgate Assistant Coach Colin Munro

How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to the Philocrosophy Podcast. Very excited to welcome Colin Monroe, the offensive coordinator and assistant coach at Colgate University. Colin, very fired up to have you on the podcast. Thanks for having me. I know I've gotten a lot of people telling me over the past couple of years I need to jump on and they've been waiting. So hopefully uh there's some excited people.

Well, it's kind of funny for me because this is like the first time I actually know your entire journey uh before I ask the question of, hey, Colin. You've had a pretty unique and fun uh lacrosse journey as a player and a coach. Um why don't you uh why don't you take us through that a little bit and then we'll dive deep into uh all kinds of discussions of your mentors and what you learn along the way. Yeah, sweet. So...

Obviously my my journey is still a little new here as a coach, but uh just kind of going through back as a player is awesome. So Obviously started out um you were my coach and I was playing playing little rec league uh growing up in Colorado, hanging out in the DU sidelines, which was pretty sweet, which was Kind of the the the real start to my love for lacrosse and seeing those teams compete and and really get after it. So that was always awesome. And then

Um, getting into to box, I started going up playing box at eleven years old and I stayed with my grandparents in Niagara on the Lake Ontario. Um my mom's parents. So that was pretty awesome. Um to spend five summers up there. I was coached by Sean Allen, who I think is one of the best um uh box cross coaches. He has a huge impact on me. career and and stuff he taught me back then I'm still learning now. So

Went through that. Um, in about that time, I was I was getting into high school, uh, Mount Vista high school, where I played for Coach Jake Herman and you so get um a great great staff there for a couple of years of high school and Um you finished it up as my head coach, so that was awesome as well. Um and then about the same time I was over playing junior lacrosse out in Coquillan. So I played

Five summers of junior A and Coquitlam. Uh played for Pete Tellis and Pat Coyle and two of I think some of the best coaches out there. I think Um unbelievably smart. Pat Coyle's won at every level. He won as a player in the N L L, coach in the NL, senior A. So he's won he's won pretty much everything he's played. So Learned a ton from him just about mindset and culture and how to kind of keep guys working hard. Um And while I was doing that, went off to play went off to UNC to play uh

Coach Bresci, Coach Metzbauer, Coach Honor sign at Carolina. So that was awesome. Spent two years with with those guys and really learned a lot and made awesome friends out there. and loved my time at Chapel Hill and decided I needed a change and um ended up going to Georgetown where I played for Coach Phipps, Coach Warren, and Coach Shriver and and that was awesome as well. Um, getting the chance to be in two premier programs and learn from both of them.

two completely different schools too as a player, one being um down south and bigger school in the ACC and then a small school in the city um with a really good education, just kind of getting a feel of both those schools I thought was awesome for me. and and different ways programs operating just kind of led me um into my coaching. So after I graduated from Georgetown, I spent the summer playing senior A uh out in Langley. Um so did that and played with some unbelievable players on the city.

Curtis Dixon and Dane Dobe, Robert Church, Frankie Filiano, some some really, really high end players were learned a ton, had a great summer out there, played in the man cup, lost in game seven, which was too bad, but really learned a lot. And then uh Um right after that summer ended, I went over to work start working for uh coach Bobby Benson at Providence College.

um worked under him as a volunteer and casey broderson and carol kennedy and we had an awesome staff and first year um first year head coach and and brand new to the program so we had a we had an awesome time kind of natural some stuff and figuring it out and um really learned a ton from them. And then that's this past summer I took the job for uh Coach Karwick is the offensive coordinator at Colgate. So just kind of getting going up here in Hamilton and

It's only a couple of snow so far, so feeling pretty good about that. Awesome.

Um, hey, let's uh let's take a little bit of a deeper dive into box. And I wanna start my first question is you so you you started playing box across for Shawnee. in Saint Catharines as a second year Pee Wee, five years, Pee Wee, Bantam, Bantam, midget, midget. What how would you um sort of describe the differences

between Canadian box across as a youth player and what it would be like to grow up playing lacrosse only in the US as a field player. What are some of the things that you learned? What are the so some of the some some of the uh Things that you took that you maybe even take to this day. Yeah. Uh I would say that the one thing is pretty cool is you kinda grow up and

And it's everyone's playing offense and defense. So you're playing both ways at a young age. And so you can kinda get that. But you also you play so many games up there. It's funny. Like we barely practiced and we all we did was play games. Um, so we were up there, you play a couple of games a week and and as I'm sure you remember, we played our own zone a bunch. So I played against Six Nations in Burlington, it feels like every week and play Six Nations A team and Six Nations B team, but

Um, you really get some strong rivalries up there doing that and you play against the same kids all the way up in in a lot of times, which I think is a little different. And at least it wasn't Colorado. It might be that way in other states, but It wasn't quite the same of that in Colorado. So I was just say the biggest thing was tons of games.

Um, everything's uber competitive. You go'cause you play with the two year age grab. So you play um Pee Wee as a younger Pee-Wee and an older Pee Wee, a major and a minor. So playing Um so you're always trying out for teams and it's tough to make teams and you got good players coming up and below um no matter what setting up.

It's never a given. So um yeah, I'd say the biggest things are g more games, um, more kind of rivalries that you get it all the way up into junior when it's all uber competitive, and you're 21-year-old playing against the same kid you're playing. I guess at eleven years old is pretty cool. So yeah. Yeah. It's pretty crazy actually, you know, you look back to all those ninety eights, you know, in uh in Ontario that you're playing against Burlington and

Six Nations and and h how many of those guys are playing pro now? A lot, right? Yeah, a lot of them. It's cool and I'm I'm still buddies with a handful of guys that I used to play against, whether it's Tahoga or Brian Lanchberry or some of those guys who played in our zone that we were playing with at eleven years old. Um we just ended up playing against each other all the way through um into Minto Cups and stuff like that, but we're we're still buddies to this day.

Yeah. I'll tell you what, it's so fun going to box across games too. Um as a uh as a dad, it was a blast to go watch you guys. Um, and then you made the move out west, played one year of intermediate, which is really why you went there. Um, was to be able to play in an intermediate league, which doesn't exist anymore. Um, it used to be there was a seventeen and eighteen year old league, whereas um You know, midget was fifteen and sixteen.

You know, in Ontario you had to go straight to juniors as a 17-year-old. And so the intermediate league, a lot of people didn't like it. But how did I thought that experience was pretty awesome from the outside looking in? How did you like that? What did you like about that? And who are some of the players that you played with on that?

Yeah, it's cool. It's funny. So at at around that at time and I mentioned Pete Tellus being one of my coaches and he was the junior A coach uh this past year. Uh but he was my intermediate coach when I first went out there and it's funny. I built it, lived at his house, uh, while I was also playing for his team. So Pretty cool, but the the funny thing is, Pat Coyle was still coaching the junior team. The junior team was really good that year. I think they had Chris Kluche and um

Berg might have been gone, but they were really deep and they had a ton of ton of really good guys. Um and then they made a deep mental run and played against Six Nations lost. So we had a ton of really good players on our team that were just a little too young to make that team. So our team was full of Um like Reed Bowering, who was um N L L Rookie of the year, runner up maybe, defender, but he's unbelievable pro career so far.

We had um Christian Del Bianco who was actually playing junior at the time but wanted to play with his buddies, so he came down and stayed to play with his buddies. Uh Ethan Tysers was on the team who's having a great pro career in Calgary right now. Um

I don't know, just tons and tons of guys who we had a great time too. And it was a ton of fun. And and like you mentioned, it was I was gonna go out there for one year and ended up just having the most fun summer of lacrosse and just teammates having fun culture up there. And I'll just stay in West Coast for the next five years.

Talk a little bit about the culture of box across because I feel like it's a little different in in in than field. And it's not that it's not that you don't have as just as many buddies in field and and stuff, but I feel like kind of like the difference is

you know the look the the dressing room itself actually probably makes a pretty big difference and just being able to hang out but what would talk talk a little bit about the culture of box and what it how it's sort of impacted you as a as a player as a teammate and and now as a coach Yeah, uh I think the culture is really cool and and I would argue too that it's it was awesome and coquillum and where I got to play junior A lacrosse was one of the best cultures there are.

And and there's a couple others that are really cool and unique, whether it's Orangeville or Six Nations. And but I think Coquitlam's right up there, Victoria. Everything they have. So whether it starts at the front office, the front office did an awesome job and they took care of the billets who were coming in and living there and they took care of the players.

It was a first class experience when we travel out to the Mintos and to the coaches and and they always had top tier coaches, whether it's Pat Coyle or whatnot. Uh Jason Bishop who's the assistant who's awesome.

Uh and then and then to your point of the dressing room, it's a lot of like hockey culture. And I think that's pretty cool and unique. And the hockey guys, so many of junior hockey, it's just long, long bus trips and you just spend so much time with your And so many of those guys have similar backgrounds of growing up in hockey. Um and just really good teammates who care about each other and

And it's funny, it's kind of like College Cross without school and less practice. And so it's like you get a chance to be really close. um with with your teammates. And it's it's a ton of fun and whether it's ferry trips or playing twenty games in the summer and really competing. But yeah, it it's a really cool, cool culture and a and in a product, I'd say, of kind of the top down and just kind of being first class and and it just made it.

The one really cool thing too, I feel like, is that, you know, that's similar between St. Catharines and Coquitlam. is just from a community perspective. Everybody just loves lacrosse. They love box lacrosse. Um, and it you know, everybody wants to talk about box across. Yeah, for sure.

It's amazing. Yeah. And something I didn't even mention is like there's four outdoor boxes in Coquitlam itself. So there's kids, you walk on Saturday afternoon to any of those boxes. There's kids playing there. There's junior guys playing there. And there's guys who play junior there are playing pro now and they're just kind of stopping by. And you get that culture of the yeah.

generations and generations. And I think that's why Coquitlam made 10 straight Mental Cups is just being able to have the older guys know the approach you have to take and the younger guys kind of following suit and and the younger kids looking up and seeing all that happen and it's just kind of going over and over and over over years.

Um I think yeah, definitely plays a part of it. And you just yeah, the the town loves it. You talk to people, oh, where where are you from? Denver, what are you doing here? I'm playing for the adnacks. Everyone's like, Oh, that's awesome and and super supportive. So it was it was awesome up there. That is cool.

I think there's something unique too about the Canadian box across. Um, and it's probably similar to like NHL hockey playoffs and that, you know, like you go through the regular season, but then when the playoffs hit, you got series. And I feel like it really t it ramps up this level of comp competitiveness.

And it really gives an experience of playing in in in a lot of big games. And the facts that they're series um instead of just one one-shot playoff games is kind of cool too. Can you talk a little bit about how sick it was to play in the playoffs and and and to make mental runs? Yeah, it's funny'cause'cause as you kinda get through, um, and and as I was in college, you got a lot of guys coming to this to the team late. You probably play.

five, six, seven games out of twenty games, uh, without your full lineup because guys are away at school, kind of getting trickling back in. And you play, I'd say, the last twelve, thirteen games of the regular season. Um there's a trade deadline down July first, which is usually towards the end of the regular season. So you usually pick up some new guys late. And then the playoffs feels like a whole different a whole different thing.

And it's super competitive both within the province, within kind of Canada itself, but even within the team. Like the really good teams you play on, you don't you don't win championships like that without having really good players who don't play And having guys get scratch and stuff. But but again, to the to the point of culture that we just talked about is you have to understand that's how you're gonna win.

And can you be a good teammate whether you're in the lineup or you're not in the lineup and supportive of your guys out of the lineup or if they go in for you and all that stuff is is super important. Um but yeah, just playing against in a best of seven or a best of five against teams.

and getting to play and and try to play off games and Um, whether they're gonna try to take you off your game by beating you up or whatnot or whatever it might be, but just to see the same thing over and over and over and to make adjustments and know exactly what guys you're going against.

who's gonna be trying to cover you every night or whatnot and you run into hot goalie and trying to make those adjustments is is really cool and fun. Yeah. So so cool. Uh twenty sixteen you guys uh played uh Played in the Middle Cup in Langley.

Went in as a second seed in the in the in the West and ended up winning the championship in game five in uh In like uh an overtime, something like five four, something like that. Um, can you talk a little bit about that first minto run and what it was like?

Yeah. Yeah. So that year was was awesome. And it was I remember I was pretty young. I want to say I was sixteen, maybe seventeen, but I was young and And uh my captain of that team was Tyler Pace and like I said, guys come late from schools and he was at D U at the time and they'd won the championship the year before and being a Colorado kid, uh

In high school, I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. I remember him coming to the dressing room for the first time and just kind of a little starstruck, not nothing crazy, but um and then again, like we talked about the college within like a week or two, like we're good friends and we're buddies and and we're competing. So that year was really cool and fun and my first time I felt like I was playing like like big time lacrosse um was that summer and we went through uh the playoff run. Which was

Awesome. And I forget who we played in the first round, but like you said, we played Delta in the final round. And I remember um that was they they just tried to bully us and that's how they tried to go. And they and they did a little bit and they kinda got on our skin. And I actually remember I got banged up in that game and didn't dress in game three and I was all kind of bent out of shape about it. But again, to my point earlier is you gotta be supportive and and kinda go. And we ended up

losing that series and and going into the minto um with a little bit of a chip on our shoulder, knowing luckily that we still got in and it was a short series because we were hosting the minto. So they only did a best of three. So we still could have kind of came back.

But it was tough. They were they had a really good team and they were tough. Um and and they had like the kid Tyrell Henry Jackson who's a pro right now. I think Trey Leclerc was on that team, if I remember correctly, Ken Milligan. So they had they had a bunch of good guys on that squad. Um And then so I remember too is you made me come back for high school, which uh high school had already started for two weeks. There's about a two week break between that series and the Minto.

my mom and dad and obviously you guys were like, All right, you're coming back to high school and I didn't I was like so bent out of shape on that too. I didn't want to come back but came back and and went to uh Went to school for a couple of weeks and and I was working out and I remember too, you were like, Whatever you do, don't go play basketball. Like you can't play basketball.

I go with my buddies, play basketball and sprain my ankle. I'm so bad. And so that was so I spent the next week and a half just like gearing up, like prepping my ankle, working really hard to get that thing. And And then we went down and flew back for the minto. The ankle was feeling pretty good. Um we had we had an awesome run at it. And and we actually, I think.

We beat on the first night we beat Orangeville, which was a big they had a really good team. They were they were deep and they were good and and um they had like Joel Tenney's Charlotte. Yeah. Charlotte's was probably the best player on the floor, except for our goalie played a little bit better and and and those two really to watch those two compete uh was was really

But we won that first game. Um, and then beat beat my old teammate Jordan Prisco, who was playing for Calgary at the time. So we beat those guys. Um and then and then somehow uh Delta had slipped up. So we already had our we had our ticket punch. So we played those guys. They ended up beating us again. We scratched some guys and arrested some guys because we knew we were gonna advance anyway.

Um but they again they outtuffed us and they banged some guys up and and they were real physical with us. Then we got into the best of five finals against Orangeville and it was awesome. Like I said, Charlotte Beattes was unbelievable player in that series, and Del Bianca was just as good. And Gilray for them was awesome off the charts. And yeah, they they were just they were deep and good and and it went into a uh

five game series in overtime, which was you can't ask for much more. And and I rem I'll never forget Pat Coyle who came in before overtime. We're we were kind of upset'cause we blew a lead and he's like, you know what guy like

If I told you back when we started this thing a couple months ago, we said you get one period to go play to win it, like let's go let's go play this period. Like who cares? They scored, they took it. And so so it was awesome. It's a it's a fun series to be a part of and Yeah, some we'll never forget.

Even even we talked about the generations, but watching all the the alumni who were pro guys and I watched kind of growing up being in the in the stands wearing jerseys and helmets and banging on the glass going crazy. It's just, I don't know, just memories all I was remembering. It's pretty sweet.

The only the only the only bad thing is is uh I made us get on a flight the next morning relatively early to go back to school. Yeah, that was I was also been out of shape about that one too. But yeah, I had to go back to school. Yeah. For people that don't know the the the format of the minto is basically the the winner of the West, the winner of um Alberta and the winner of Ontario. Uh all punch a ticket to the minto in the second place uh f finisher of the host province get to play.

They play a round robin where everybody plays each other. The first seed gets a bye. The last seed is out. And then two plays three in a semifinal to make it to the five-game series. And so you guys win win in overtime in game five. Um Delves actually almost won it. Remember he Yeah, and we always joke, thank God he didn't. So our goalie, who I keep talking about is unbelievable, had an unbelievable series.

And it was the lowest scoring game possible. And there's actually there's a big fight that their goalie got upset with me and tackled me and everyone started fighting. I was like, I was yawns, oh my god, what did I do here? I didn't mean to start that. Um, but right at the end of the regulation they pulled their goal and Del Bianco made an unbelievable save and chucks it the length of the floor and it probably missed by about two inches high of the crossbar.

He almost sealed it, but we always joke like thank God he didn't'cause he pretty much won us the minto with all the saves he made, but thank God he didn't actually win it by scoring the game one goal. The offense could take care of it. So uh 2017 you guys go back to the Minto and Six Nations was just too good. Remember how good those guys were? Yeah, yeah. They swept us. So that was that was a tough one for us, but they were yeah, they were pretty off the truck.

Still kinda going. They're all playing. Austin Stotz was uh probably MVP of that. Yeah. Yeah, Douggy Jameson was off the charts. Travis Longboat was really, really good. Tohoga was really, really good. Um Cam Garland. Right. Holton. Holden Garland, yeah. And then twenty eighteen, you guys go back and uh get to play um and and to sort of summarize that one. It was in Calgary, so there were two teams from uh

From Alberta that made it, but it was pretty much going to be you guys in Brampton. Jeff Teat was the best player in junior lacrosse that year. And He had well uh except for Delps, maybe, but the best uh runner probably. And um, and he had 14 goals and 14 assists in the three games going into the minto final. Um, but uh, but then you guys end up winning it.

winning uh the championship. But first of all, you won game one and there was just like a crazy episode that we we're not gonna dive into right now. But I'll say that was one of the most um incredible sporting events ever.

So yeah, that's cool. Talk to me a little bit about um about what you learned from um from from Pat. You know, what are some of the things that you take now that you learn specifically from Pat Coyle, the head coach? Yeah, so Pat Pat's been crazy influential, as you know, kind of on my career and and through kind of whether it's been interviews for for coaching jobs or anything else and and people always ask me about

kind of some of the most influential coaches. I always I always bring Pat up at some point and just um because he's tough and he's funny as a as a player, he was the toughest guy out there. And if you watch, he was the last player to not wear a helmet. Well, he's grandfathered in and finally like, dude, you have to put a helmet on this is ridiculous. So you mean a mask? Helmet what? Um you mean a mask? It might have been mask, yeah. But he just it was crazy and you

got suspended from the league and then they folded or merged into the NLL so we got welcomed back. But he was he was just nuts as a player, but he was tough and he was always team first. And that was one of the big things he always was team first.

And as a coach, um, he was awesome and he was tough on us and he would get after guys and he would scratch you and and he'd kind of let you know um what he thinks. But the the one thing that he always came back to And obviously I learned a ton of things of skill wise, whether it'd be that kind of check where you where you open a guy's chest up and push him over.

The way he talks about defense and and we force people down and rotate across the top and play a really unique style of defense. But the one thing I always come back to is is the mindset and how he would get our teams to stay in the moment, play together, be in the moment at all times. And don't get me wrong, everyone who's played for him knows like he'll rip you, he'll get after you and and tell you what what he what he thinks. But our teams were always.

In the moment, we we had a phrase and we would say, What's next? And and we'd score a goal, like a big, big goal, and we'd celebrate for five, six seconds, and it'd be like, What's next? We're going, like we got to keep going and playing. We'd take a penalty and it'd be what And we'd whatever it was, is no matter what the situation was, we just moved on to the next moment. And we got 20 guys and plus the six, seven in the stands, um, all kind of on the same page.

And it was really hard for us to beat'cause it's not. Like I talked about in 2016 and and we kind of got beat with teams um trying to be more physical and whatever out tough us. But when you have a different mindset like that and you can keep your mind in the moment and all that stuff and comes from the top down. It's it it's really powerful and really tough to beat.

And it's something that I I'll keep taking with my teams in the future and and something that um I give a big credit of our winning to to that approach that he got our team playing with and everybody to buy into. Yeah, amazing.

The one thing that was that I noticed about Coquitlam over the years was just how well you guys moved the ball. You had multiple uh offensive coordinators that you played for in Coquitlam, but the com the common denominator was

Just unbelievable passing. You guys would swing it, you'd move it, the ball wasn't dying in one person's stick. And I feel like that just uh opened up the opportunity for for so many things. Um, how how has that influenced your coaching and what are some of the other things you learned? from from your experiences in box that are translating now into your field code.

Yeah, it's funny. Like a lot of the same concepts that we talk about in boxes are the same way we're kind of talking about in coaching, whether you can swing the ball from side to side to make the goalies move. If you run into a hot goalie, can you shoot it off the catch, which essentially is gonna make him harder to be in rhythm if he's got to move before he sets it up. Um

The way we we talked a ton about entering the floor and and and you have to go in fast and tough. And the same thing we talked about with our team. If you're coming off and there's like transition moments, like you gotta cut hard and draw people down because not only will you maybe get open, but it's gonna open up people behind you and and cut to get other people open as well as cut to get yourself open is something we talk about. So how can we

Can we keep like flying around? It's funny because towards the end of my um not my junior career, but I played senior A um in Langley, which I touched on, and I played offense for most of the year. Down the stretch of the year I played defense. And what I realized is defense is way less tiring. 'Cause an offense you have to move around and they were so key on us.

flying around and always moving and moving to get other people open as well as ourselves and moving the ball and moving our feet and all this different stuff. Um, which is exhausting. And then just like little things too, of like the way we would hustle on and off the floor. Like I talked about on the floor, but we'd have to be smart and hustle off the floor and read the situation similar to riding in in field decreasing.

we'd have to kind of read those situations. And we were really smart and crafty with the way we came on and off. And then to your point, we moved the ball and we did a great job of that. And and he there's like these nuances to picks that he would talk about all the time. Um there's a million of them, and so I probably can't get into all of them right now, but you teach us the nuances and we do them, but but everything really revolved around.

Like getting through the middle, going hard, drawing people to open up other people, coming on and off the floor. And that was kind of the central

Yeah, really cool. What about from a skill development skill development perspective? I mean, I know you sort of say like we don't practice that much, but I feel like um The the the the reps that you did get in practice, first of all, were incredibly

I I I kind of feel like box time is like double time. You know what I mean? Like I feel like you could practice less but get more out of it. Um how would you say from a player development perspective, box across has impacted you in in your coaching and teaching? Yeah, well I would say We we I'd say we didn't practice much. We did practice well in June or eight.

We practice more than a lot of teams, uh especially in the West, you practice a little more than the teams in the East. The East play a few more games, they gotta travel longer. The West it's a little closer and we could practice more. So we were out there once or twice a week. Depending probably more often than not twice a week. We're out there practicing with two to three games a week as well. Um So but yeah, I would say

It it was just everything was a decision making in practice and and it was really tough to score on the goal. And and for me personally. I I've mentioned him a bunch, but he's the best goal in Canada, probably right now still. And he was our goalie that we got to shoot on every day in practice now.

off. So that alone was awesome for learning how to score and really not just shooting to shoot, but you gotta shoot to score and you gotta figure out new creative ways to score because if you have two or three moves

You might be good for a week, week and a half, but a week and a half later you're not scoring those moves anymore as he knows exactly what's coming. So you gotta constantly develop and constantly work and then um And I give a lot of credit too to like the ways in general, right, and ways defensive plays you can promote different things. If you play for a team that slides a lot and field across, and your guys will probably naturally be better at passing. So I think that's that's massively true.

Um, and and the way we played defense in and Coquitlam, again, probably promoted passing, but it also de promoted carries. They would force us down to the corners and we would have to instead of flipping it back, like face dodge over and flip it back, they would time that up and kill you. So you'd have to roll your back and look to skip it through and be more creative with different ways you can look opposed to things that people

kinda grow up. So I'd say our our the way we ran our defense made it um definitely Uh helped our skill development in the different reads that we have. And then just the goalies and and the nature of the game of how many touches you get and just being in the box.

Constantly getting breakaways and and having to squeeze balls into tight windows and actually having to catch it, right? You gotta it's funny because I always say when box across you watch it and you watch a really skilled guy, he probably drops it a couple. There's a lot of really, really tough passes that he has to handle or catch too. And so being able to handle up more often than not um and pick up tough balls against the wall and read back.

Really interesting and cool. Yeah. I think um the amazing thing too was like how much lacrosse you ended up getting to play because you went on these deep runs, you know, whereas The rest of Canada is kind of done by, you know, mid-July a lot of times. You guys weren't finishing up until like the end of August. I mean, you were late to college.

You were late to your first year of college, you were you know had to leave high school, late to your second year of college, yeah, late to your third year. Yeah, correct and uh And and the amount of lacrosse that you played and plus like the warm up. I mean, I feel like it was just amazing to go watch like you guys would go out.

you know, on game day, you'd have a shoot around in the morning and then you'd have like, you know, a warm-up where you're just like shooting a gazillion balls on delves to warm up before the game, before warm up. And then you come out for the real warm up. And I just kind of thought about just how One of the reasons why the Canadians are such good shooters is obviously the small nets and the big goalies, but just how much you guys shot was like pretty off the chart.

Yeah, for sure. And and and to your point of those deep runs, it's and that probably comes back to the culture piece too. And for us to get a couple extra months, I'll never forget. Um Tyler Pace said to me, he's like, I can't imagine how the hockey players do it. It's like for us to play the full field across season and then go play it through August in the summer, um, is like

crazy on your bodies and to and we're playing junior lacrosse. Like I can't imagine what the NHL guys to do like four of those seven game series is and have to go to game seven, game seven, game seven, game seven. year after year after year, it it must take a toll on your body. But to your point of warm ups and all that stuff is yeah, it it was awesome. It was tons of fun. And down the stretch of those seasons you

Like we just kinda go out there and shoot at the very beginning'cause it's tough to move. You play every night for four or five nights in a row. It's it's tough on the body and it takes a while to get warmed up, but by the time the full team comes out and you got your pads on, you kind of zip the ball around Yeah and and I don't know, even when I'm coaching these showcases and camps and stuff, I see and we do like a star drill.

And and people struggle. That's something that from the time you're a pee wee up there, you're you're one time in your star drill and it's dialed in and you get a hand with a shot on the goalie and and you and your hands get locked and quick'cause everyone does it. And whether it were three on twos or four on threes and Just kind of the staple warm-up drills that kids will go all the way through are awesome touches that they get just purely in warm-ups throughout their whole entire career.

One thing cool too, I I was just popped into my head is just the I was thinking about, you know, three on twos and and how often you with three on twos, it's not like your classic like West Jenny where you have You know, you can take all the time in the world you want. Usually the three on twos you guys are doing are like usually with speed, you know what I mean? And handling the ball and being able to make a play at speed. And I feel like that's one thing that happens a lot in box.

You're handling the ball, getting up and down, and you're throwing the ball hard in like tight windows and stuff. And how have you tried to uh get that going with um, you know, with where you are now? Yeah, we do a ton of stuff. We try to do uh tons of decision making, t everything with speed and and we'll even do If we're doing say like a two on one drill, maybe it's we'll use like small nets and tennis balls and do some two on ones, but we'll

We'll make sure you're coming in at speed and we'll we'll throw the ball deep and far. And that guy's got to come in and handle at speed because it is really important. And and to my point earlier of Um it's it's easier to score an assisted shot. It's easier in If you kind of loop it to somebody, it's it's gives everybody more time to make it happen. If you throw it hard and and get it there and play fast or you're running fast, that makes a huge difference. And that's why

In the box, you get a lot of like those backside one timers because you have to throw it fast and beat the goalie across while he's trying to step. He doesn't have that far to go. And so you gotta beat him there. Um but yeah, speed is huge. We we try to do everything at speed and and we try to keep our guys fresh as possible. So when they're coming into the drill, they're going with speed and and stuff like that. So we're definitely it's something something we're working on.

So last summer you um after the uh a couple year hiatus because of the uh the pandemic, um you went out and played. senior lacrosse uh for Langley and you mentioned some of the great players and you've touched on a few great players along the way, but um talk to me a little bit about

You know what you learned from some of those guys? What did you learn from Curtis Dixon and Dane Doby and Robert Church? What are some of the things that you sort of took away that that that you you know maybe helped you as a player and help you as now as a coach? Yeah, I'd say the biggest thing is just like

Deception is everything, right? And and when I'm feeding Doby balls, he'll literally look away from me to catch it. And you can see it when you slow down the film, he just turns his head the complete other way. So his defender doesn't know it's coming. And he's old and And I don't know, but he's still playing like nobody can cover him and to watch that guy play is pretty incredible.

Um, he's not the most athletic in the world, but his hands are so fast and and everything's calculated, whether it's where his hands are as he cuts the middle, or it's how he's gonna shield his defender off as he inside rolls or How he's gonna finish or set the goalie up as he finishes and where to put it.

how he's gonna pick this guy to get him open. Everything's calculated and and I got I was lucky enough to do a webinar for him on the virtual cross summit, which was pretty awesome. Um but I was hosting and and Adobe was on. Um

And he's just talked about like even I'm watching my defenders' hips and as soon as they turn this way, I know we've got'em. And and just the the IQ on that guy and how calculated he is is really, really and same with Curtis and and those guys are totally different players but but they're both incredible to watch Curtis is so athletic and and the way he can drag and hold defenders, cover him for as long as possible and and make people overplay him um is really incredible. And

And church too is is is unbelievable. He's different than all those guys. He's more of a quick release and he's got a little bit of burst in him and and he and he picks his times to burst and he doesn't always burst, but when he bursts, he's pretty much gone always. And and the way he shoots it. Quick release. And it's funny and people always say it's not the wand, it's the magician and

I was always like, Yeah, but you need a good stick. And then I watched like Doby pull a stick out of his bag that has been sitting in his bag for three months and is bent and like the worst stick ever. And he just scores six goals. So maybe it it really is the magician, not the one. But yeah, playing with those guys was was really, really cool and and and just to learn things that they've learned in their career.

Yeah. That is so cool. What about uh what about what did you learn from those guys from a two man game perspective that was different than juniors? I wouldn't say a ton. Um I I don't know. I probably could have done a better job in my one season with them kind of inquiring about some of that stuff. And and and part of the reason too is I think that gave me a really, really good sense of uh

two man game and I felt like I was pretty advanced in my two man game and I was going. And not to mention when I was playing on that team, they weren't picking for me very much. I was picking for those Those guys were gonna handle the ball more so than me, which is great. That's that's the way it should be. Uh

when you're playing with guys like that. So I was doing a lot of the picking, but it wasn't a ton. The biggest thing is is is kind of find backs and know when to jack a guy and know when to kind of like push him and try to get him to take a couple steps opposed to purely pop him. with the cross check and um but some of just some timing stuff and how and how to kind of time it up.

What to look for, or maybe set a beasting or stuff like that. But yeah, I'd say a lot a lot of my knowledge from the two man game perspective kind of came from Pat and Jay.

the different two-man game stuff. Love it. Well let's um let's talk a little college across and some of the uh some of the things that you learned along the way at Carolina and Georgetown before we move into Providence. Yeah. Um Yeah, I loved I loved my time at both those places and and I don't regret any of my time, whether it's Carolina. I know I ended up transferring, but loved my time there and and I loved my time at Georgetown as well and to play um with some unbelievable players there.

But yeah, it was it was awesome. And th those two places were totally different. Um and but they were the same in a lot of ways and the guys were the same. Everything like that, but I don't know, just some subtle differences of of kind of the way we practice. And and I wouldn't say one is necessarily better or worse than the other, but But there was more preparation, um, I would say at Carolina and we and we were really dialed in kind of everything that we were doing.

Um and Georgetown, we like didn't even play six on six through the whole fall. And so that was that was like a little subtle difference that was just like, I don't know. Um, but it was cool and unique. Um, just the skill development piece of it. Uh I thought I thought was awesome. And and I know you touched on with your podcast with Coach Warren, but like the five on five rapid fire drill we would do every single day and and and really just promote passing it ball. And do that.

Yeah, it was really cool and and I'd say Coach Metz was awesome. He taught you to kind of like see what's going on and and just based on what the defense is doing. And we were able to kind of shape what we tried to do based on what those guys were what the defense was trying to do.

Um and Coach Phipps was a little more like let's kinda roll it out and and play in in kind of spots, uh loose spots and just kinda go and and be passing offense and make decisions. And there are a lot of similarities between the two as well, but I'd I'd say those were the big Yeah again, both places were awesome.

So getting a chance to coach for Bobby Benson was probably a great opportunity and and to be in a first year program is pretty cool too because it gives you an experience of what it's like, you know. Yeah, for sure. And that's what I always said.

And obviously the goal is to be a head coach one day and to to really see the way Coach Benson approached it and and the work he put in and the work we all put in every single day um was really cool. And and there's a lot of hurdles that come with with a first-year head coach.

Um we always joked it felt like we were drinking from a fire hose at times because there's just so much you got to figure out whether it's how to send a package or like what what recruits are gonna want to come visit and and everything um in between. But it was really cool experience and and yeah, I loved it.

Talk talk to us a little bit about the um about about what you learned from Coach Benson on the offensive side of the ball. What are some of the things that he does and emphasizes that you really like and that you're gonna take on to your your coaching career elsewhere? Yeah, the the biggest thing is just

We're letting the guys be in decision makers and and and we give them like a loose kind of script, not even a script, but a loose plan of kind of how we want to look. But the coolest thing is is the way we played offense um

Like obvious we started out of like a set and you have kind of your base, but when it ran really well, you couldn't tell what was going on and the set would look different. And and and that's when it was really at its best because the ball movement was fast and the people movement was

Fast but not sporadic. It was fast but under control and and we knew when we didn't over speed it because that's what that happened. When we want to play fast with ball movement, want to play fast with cuts and picks and screens and all that type of stuff.

Um, it can look really sporadic. So, how can we get our guys to slow down while also having the fast ball movement and the fast thinking without being sporadic with the way um they were operating? And just kind of the way we approach that and and how

Everything's a you could do this, you could do that, you don't have to do this, you don't have to do that. It's kind of there's tons of options and flexibility and freedom of the way we play, but we're always gonna have the staples of of move the ball and get out of each other's way. and communicate to each other and can we communicate to be on the same page all

And that stuff was awesome. And and yeah, he's everyone kinda knows, but he's like offensive guru. So getting to work, work under him's been really was really

Great. So now you're at Colgate and uh you get to uh run an offense. Um how do you how do you sort of view it? What's your overall philosophy, would you say? Yeah, I'd say I'd say the first one of the biggest things is is we're gonna passing offense and and obviously you can't you can't always do that because to my point early, way early in the podcast is certain defenses promote certain things, right? And so

Um, sometimes you can you're gonna play against a type of defense that makes it a lot tougher to pass and you're still gonna have to do the other stuff. But we're always gonna pass first and we're gonna We talked about passing to get the ball back, right? And can you throw it to someone just to throw it back, just for the sake of passing? Because more touches can be good. And can we know that?

the ball's always gonna come back to us. So we don't have to worry about not moving the ball'cause it's gonna come back to you. If you get it out of your stick on time and you start moving it and we create that culture of getting guys moving the ball on And and really buying into the fact that you know it's gonna come back around because everybody's bought

So that's so that's pretty much the overarching thing that we really want to wanna be about. And obviously obviously we're we're gonna we're gonna dodge and we're gonna pick and we're gonna cut and we're gonna do all these different things.

to to make sure it's touching the ball. And that's that's the way I like to play. That's what we talked about in Canada. That's how I was as a player. Um it it's more fun to play, I think, if you're moving the ball and and knowing it's going to come back. And you don't have to worry about hanging on to it because you know you're going to touch it. I just think it's more fun to play that way. So it seems like our guys are enjoying it as well. It definitely promotes.

you know, a better team, you know, because it's like if it's team first, part of that is passing, right? Passing is is is like one of the biggest keys to team. But what are some of the specifics about passing? that are so critical for an offense if you could like rattle off a few things like what are the things about passing that that impacts the defense that makes it so important for you.

Yeah. Um, I'd say one, it it turns everybody's heads and stances, right? And especially maybe throw it through X and get it to the backside or flip. But everybody's stances have to flip. So just throwing it and throwing it back. Makes whether you're trying to spider in or help or whatnot, it just gets people moving more so than it would. Um if you don't, or

They're they're accustomed to you just passing it. And now they don't even bother spidering in because they're gonna think you're gonna pass it back. Now you kind of fake it and you go and they might be a half second late. And so how can you get people to move their stances and everything like that?

Um I think you can you can create advantages through And you can you can beat people with ball movement, which you always know, and you can't always beat people through ball movement, but you can do it before you even dodge if if there you see a like long approach and you can zip it there fast and efficiently, you can you can get yourself to dodge.

I think all that stuff's huge. And then and then to my point earlier is is the goalies have to step and move and and if you're passing completely on rhythm so maybe you dodge an alley through X to the backside at the same alley through X to the backside then he might be on rhythm too but now all of a sudden you pass it dodge the alley and throw it back

or whatever, ball reversal at some point. Now you're still passing, it's not quite in the same rhythm. Um and now he his rhythm's off as well. And so he has to move and I think it can kind of actually help negate a uh bully as well. So I think those are the three big things is can we get them to shift their stances? Can we um can we actually beat them with ball movement or or create an opportunity that we like with our passing with the hard, efficient pass? And and can we

Can we score assisted shots because not because we have to and and if we have a great opportunity to score unassisted, just like I've mentioned before, if we can find an approach and beat beat it there with ball movement to dodge the approach, that's probably gonna be an unassisted goal, but that's passive. Um but also can we can we shoot some assisted shots that are gonna help help make the m goalie move? Yeah. And it spreads the defense out too, right? Yep. Yeah, no doubt.

One of the things I remember from your intermediate year um with Pete Tallis is he he literally wouldn't let you guys feed a pick and roll. Yeah. Talk about that concept and why that's so important and and how you probably uh are are leveraging that concept even at at the level you're at now. Yeah, no doubt. That is that is something that's awesome and and you see it.

A lot of box teams do it naturally and we'll talk about that look, but a lot of teams don't say we're gonna do this and that's what And really what it comes down to is just kinda if you throw it feed the pick and roll, it can be everyone can rotate and it's obvious that. And people you see in college cross, people pre-rotate. When you swing it across to feed it back to the guy. I think it really makes everything develop slower. So you can realize that Is it gonna be open or is it not?

right because the defender who's switching on to that guy he might recover quick and if you throw it right to the pick and roll you might you might be open for a half second but by the time you get it there he's going to be recovering. Whereas if he's swinging across and back, well, now if he's really open, he's still going to be open. If he wasn't quite that open,

So that's the first thing. The second thing is I think it makes the angle so much better to catch it and score because when you feed a pick and roll, say you kind of down pick or something and the guy's carrying over top.

If you throw to the pick and roll, the guy who's rolling his back is basically to the net. And he's catching that thing with his back turned to the net, which is again, if you're gonna rotate up to it, it's tough because your back's to it. You can't see the goal. You might get hit. You're it's tough. It's kind of like

feeding the crease from top center of a man up. You can do it, but it's tough and it it is tough. Um And so can you catch it, can you swing it to the other side where now you're catching it on a cut to the middle and you're already running down towards the net and you can see the people in front of you. And the help has to cover the ball, right? So when you throw it to the other side of the floor, whoever is covering that guy.

If you throw it right to the roll, he could probably help and make a play on it in the middle as well. Well now when you throw it to the other side of the floor, that guy's got to play the ball, and he's not going to get back on time if you throw it back to the original pick. Um on on the pick and roll. So that was yeah, and that's

How important I really realized the verse uh how important hockey assists were. And now I know when you were coaching me in high school, we talked about hockey assists all the time. And I knew that was important, but to really see it like, oh yeah, that that makes sense. And and and box across is not a hockey assist, you're just getting assist. that and they value that. Um but yeah, that was huge. That was huge um for my just overall ideas of passing and develop

Yeah. And I also think it's so important too, because if you sit there looking for the pick and roll. You're kind of killing time. And if you just move the ball, the pick and roll will still be there. But by moving it, You can you might have had an advantage on the other side of a difficult approach of an off-ball two-man game. Um, and You know it

It it's the ball dies in sticks when someone's just looking to feed their own pick and roll. Whereas if you just keep the ball moving, you swing it or you skip it. They cannot like you said the it's a better angle. The guys, if he's open, he's still gonna be open, but but now you can actually get into the next.

action immediately and use ball movement to create that advantage. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no doubt. And and same thing with if it's not open and you still realize it, that's kind of what we talked about earlier of cutting to get other people.

So if you're not open and it it maybe they did cover it better than you thought. So you thought you might have it, you don't, and now you swing the ball right back to the guy who caught it. There's way more space there before because they had to cover that hard cut and having to actually just cover that cut. Um opens up tons of space behind it. So I think the whole thing just promotes space and and ball movement and it was really cool idea and way to play for us back then. Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about picking. I mean, I know everybody in college across does a lot of on ball picking, and I'm sure you guys will too. But it's the to me, one of the new frontiers in field across is and you're seeing it more and more and more. Saw it a lot in the PL. Probably more so with Canadians, but but just there was just

There's so much opportunity to get open off ball. Can you talk a little bit about the off-ball two-man actions that you kind of learned in Canada that in and the concepts of those that you're trying to teach in field and and and basically how you use um picks and slips. and seals um in the in the course of backside actions, um, as well as trying to figure out you know when you need to be out the outlet to be open.

Yeah, so that's something we we talk a lot about is is always kinda keeping an eye on the ball and and knowing when you have to be an outlet.'Cause if you're gonna be passing, you have to kind of have outlets and you can't get too dialed into your off ball actions where you're So that's definitely something we talk about, but it's it's same as a player in boxing and and that's what we would also talk. You want to find back.

If you can find somebody's back and get them to cut, then you're gonna be the same page. And and it's really true, similar to the way Coach Benson would talk about it. is you have to be able to not go too fast but still make something happen. And you have to communicate, right? So can I communicate to you that you have to cut off my pick or I'm not going to get a

Or maybe I'm picking for you to get open, but you still have to cut on it. Or maybe I seal for you. And if you don't recognize what's going on, you're not going to get open. So we have to get on the same page. Um with all of that. And I think one of the coolest things or for the way that we're doing it, Colgate. There's certain things and and stuff that we don't even talk about and our guys are really, really good.

I think that's a product of a couple of things of one, the way Coach Carwick's coached it the past couple of years and and getting our guys to do some of that thing. So one, you don't have to say, but you always have the the group of new guys too. So And but the cool thing is those guys have completely kind of started playing the same way some of the older guys are playing. And I think what are what are some of those things?

Uh I think a big one is sealing and just being able to kind of seal people. Um Uh that's probably the biggest. But those we don't talk we don't overly talk about it and our guys are awesome at it. And I know they've talked about it a bunch in the past, but I think it's a it's a product of your environment and kids adapting to their environment. And that's the same way I got good at my on ball and off ball picking up in Canada is because that was the environment

I think that's the reason our freshmen are pretty good at at sealing people because that's what the older guys are doing. And that's why I think

You watch like Jack Hannah plays like a Canadian. He's l off the charts. Well what he played in four years of practice with a ton of Canadians and that's the way they played and and those guys developed. So I think the culture of the way you get guys to play will really just kind of help the new guys along and help them start to play kind of the way you want them to play, whether it's it's movement.

um passing, cutting, picking, on ball, off ball, whatever it might be. Um but I think creating that culture, getting the older guys kind of bought in on it, I think really without even having to overdo it, people start naturally picking up on what's going on and get good.

So that's been something that's been super cool and definitely a product of of uh of my background and and the environment those guys And I guess to answer your question earlier of of what up in Canada made it so like that and and yeah, just finding backs and realizing that I was we had we had some guys that were probably more skilled than me, whether it was Larson Sundown or Tyler Pace or

I don't know we we had some really really skilled guys and so I I got to go be the picker and get people open. What I realized is when you're getting people open, you're getting yourself open a lot of the times too. So not only did I feel like I was pretty good at getting other people open, um, I I figured out how to use that to get myself open too. So In in fields, it seems like a lot of times the seal's there because everyone's kind of packing it in on the backside.

But how often do you get sort of like more man to man looks do you feel like and feel where you can get, you know, the uppick slip, um, where you might get somebody like actually staying? Are you seeing that at all? Are you seeing Defenses on the backside wanted to maintain matchups or were they all sort of zoning it up?

Yeah, there's some teams that'll maintain matchups. Um a lot a lot are gonna switch and especially when you kind of get your off ball action, but you can definitely you can definitely get people maintaining matchups and kind of get open on the same. A seal or an up pick or a downpick on the backside.

Um yeah, you you can get people to maintain their matchups, especially if you start doing it with some of your some of your better players who have poles and you start picking with those guys and maybe they're not gonna switch and you're gonna get those other

You talked a lot about um, you know, when you talked about your experience with Langley and Dobie and Dixon and those guys, you just said something like deception is everything. How does that How does that impact your philosophy now in team offense and individually? How often do you talk about it? How how do you try to emphasize?

Yeah, we talk about it a ton. Um, whether it's shooting deception or deception on picking. So the the way we really phrase it is is we talk about The defense is trying to guard you. At all time. And if you don't use deception, you're telling them what you're doing. And so why would you ever tell the person who's trying to cover you what you're doing?

And and that's pretty much sums up what we try to do, but we but then you can implement it in every facet of the game, whether it's passing, catching, shooting, dodging. Picking everything. There's um coming off a pick, literally everything in the game, there should be some sort of deception used. And um I don't know,'cause I'cause I really just believe in in those Canadian guys that that had really pointed out of like, why would you ever

Tell them what you're doing because that's what that's their whole their whole goal is to guard what you're doing. And that's the only goal of defense is to guard whether collectively or individually. They have to guard it. Um and so to not use deception is on is Crazy. What's an example of how you might use deception in picking? Uh uh, I don't know, whether you go backdoor cut first or or s or do something else beforehand, right? And so if you can go backdoor before you pick.

Well, what are they gonna do? They're either gonna cover your cut or they're gonna cover the pick. They can't overplay you to the pick because they gotta cover your cut. Um and if they do overplay you to the pick, then you're open. You watch Anthony DeMeo do it a ton and and with Coach Benson's office.

He didn't necessarily go backdoor, but he'd slip those front door cuts because it's the minute they overplay you to the to the pick, you're wide open to score. So how can you not just tell them that you're going to pick or disguise it as Is is is really cool.

It it just makes it harder for them'cause'cause they wanna overplay the pick. Because to play a good pick it's tough and you gotta communicate and you gotta step out and maybe you're a chipping team, so you gotta step out and chip, or maybe you gotta switch on contact, which is most teams are like that. And so

All right, well I gotta be ready because if he's coming fast off this pick and there's contact, I'm gonna have to jump out and I can't get run over or run by. I'm gonna have to jump out. So they wanna be ready to go make a play on that and and the minute the minute they do. And basically so that's I guess that would be an example of using your pick to set up your cut, but you can do the same thing using your cut to set up your pick. So

How about off ball? How much deception do would you use off ball in box and and how much do you see the opportunities to be deceptive in the way you set picks off ball? Yeah, I think I think a little less, but um classify as deception, but um I don't know if this classifies deception, but being able to find a back, right? So you're in their blind spot, so they don't see it coming, so so they can't you're not being um

I don't know, you're not telling them exactly what you're doing because they don't know it's coming. I don't know if it's totally being deceptive, but that's huge. If you can find their back and they don't know you're coming.

Um it's massive, and you gotta I guess you gotta do something to be in their blind spot, right? So I guess it would be deception. Um but yeah, off ball off ball you can do it too, and I it's tricky, and that's the one little nuances we talked earlier in this podcast about having out. Promoting the ball movement. So again, you don't want to overdo it to where there's no ball movement and no outlets. But but if you can be deceptive on the backside, definitely do it.

Yeah, awesome. Uh last topic. Let's talk a little bit about man up and talk about. From a man up perspective, what are the things that that you took from having played with some of the best players in the world and played a lot of box across? And the Canadians tend to have, you know, be they're phenomenal on man up. Um, how do you try to develop your team to sort of be that way? And what are some of the the the the principles, the way you like to teach man?

Yeah, uh I'd say the biggest thing kinda comes from you and and can you get Multiple guys to guard you, can you get multiple eyes on you? Um and how can you draw people all the way into your hands where they have a further rotation to go? And and I'm big into three threes and stuff like that, but like sneaking the pipes, right? And and being able to make the rotations as long and far as possible because you're in.

And knowing that if a defender has one hand on a stick and he's covering up the inside with one hand on your stick, that's open. You gotta be able to throw it to the open guy because that guy is open to score. And they shouldn't be able to like if they're gonna cover you, they have to cover. You can't make'em split it. You can't let'em off the hook by

having one hand on your stick kind of helping the inside. You gotta be able to throw it into those tight windows and get guys all the way out on you because again, like we talked about in the cutting, like one step goes a long way. So can you be one step, um

Like make the defender go one step longer on his rotation. And if if a bunch of people do that, it's gonna be hard. And the same thing is true of can you get'em to shift their stances. So that's like the ball movement, but that's also when you get it behind it shifts stances and rotations and stuff. So

Can you mix that stuff in? But just the Canadian influence of the ball moves fast and it touches people and and they're all the very dragged in their hands. So if they're getting their shot off quick before the goalie has time to come and set. and all that stuff or use deception to feed the skip pass down to like we wind up at the goalie and shoot it to the pipe.

You have to score that way in box across or else you can't like you're not going to be able to to not score that way because the goalies are too good. And if you can't and they take away your angle and your outside shot. And if you can't hold them till the last second and skip it to the back pipe. This could be really hard for you to score. And the cool thing about box too is

There's they pick in in man up situations and can you seal and can you kind of come and and that gives it a whole different dynamic. So um I don't know, we haven't quite gotten there. Yeah. I don't know what what we're doing in that role. But it is it is really cool. Um For those guys to be able to to seal and to

to throw it in and and do like a little scissors look where the top guy goes and picks a low guy, the little guy comes and picks high and you try to run in the middle and seal it. And I don't know. I think that stuff's cool, which is their influence. But really their biggest influence is How quick can you move the ball and how can you make rotations go as long as possible? Right. And be and be open in the lane, right? Cause even to my point of the skip pass before.

Well, that's how you got to score, but what's the defense taught to do? Don't give up the skip pass to the pipe, or you're going to give up an empty net goal. And so how can you? get just enough to be open for that skip pass where you're still gonna be off. Or maybe you're more on the wing than right on the pike, but you're still in that skip lane and you still have that that net opportunity. And that's open. If you're if you got if you got a chance to catch the ball, you're open.

Yeah. And the only way you're gonna get the ball there is by being deceptive. Like you said, wind up like you're gonna rip it. I remember watching Tahoka when he was like a bantam. um wind up like he was gonna shoot it and he and he and he twisted a curveball down at the low lefty for a one-timer. And I was like, damn that

That was pretty high level for a fourteen year old. Yeah. But um but that's just this kind of stuff and it's the kind of stuff that you get to learn when you play box and it's pretty awesome that you get to take it uh Up to uh Hamilton, New York. So pretty awesome, man. Well, Colin, um, this was enjoyable. I really loved having you on. Um catch up with you soon. And um enjoy the uh enjoy the uh Colgate uh Q basketball game tonight, and we'll uh check in soon.