EPISODE 32 - This Little Piggy.....Part Two

And my mom drove me round to the airplane and she was like oh , are you forgetting something ? And I was like oh , I don't think so . And then I was like oh my God , my passport . I've forgotten my passport . And my mom was like Don't worry , I've got your passport , don't worry . And I was like oh my God , thank you so much , mom , thank you .

And then she gave it to me and when I showed it to the airplane man , it was my dad's passport and I was like oh , that's so funny . And then I said to the airplane man I was like Right , just five minutes , I promise you , we live just around the corner . And said to my mom my passport is on the windowsill , right as you go in the front room .

It's on the windowsill . You can't like don't fuck about , just go in , get it . We've got the airplane man's waiting for us , so she goes off and me and you stand there and I'm trying to like delay this airplane , man and the my mom's taken ages to get my passport .

So I showed the pilot my passport and I noticed that it was a baby , one of me . It was an old passport and it had my baby phone , though , and I was like , ah , and I said it was really , really faded and really like hard to see . And I said to him will that get me through the airport ? And he went , that won't even get you on a train , love .

I was like , oh no . So I said to her right , I will go back and get my passport . And I said to you I was like Kate , hold this plane , do not let it go . It feels like standing in front of the plane but like making sure that it didn't go . And I raced off to get . Yeah , this plane was just parked on the drive .

My mum's drive is like really steep and it was just parked on the steep driveway , so we don't know if you came back with your passport .

You said in the previous episode how Willie was such a great guy and I didn't say that , listen , he's such a great guy , so nice , he's such a gentleman , he's a stand up and he actually , for his debut opening , rushed his hair . Such a great guy , hi .

There is graphic descriptions of extreme sexual violence , some animal abuse , defilement of many bodies and there is also a brief mention of rape . So it's going to be a fun episode . Let's go Just like I say now . I'm sorry , right ? Also , there's lots of names in this , so I do . That's because there's lots of victims .

Exactly , I do apologise for my rubbish pronunciation . That was my cha , I'm sure , sure .

And Ellingson said that there was a large lump of something on the wooden block and it had sticky blood , soaked hair hanging from it , and she agreed to keep her mouth shut about what she'd seen that night . If Willie paid her some like drug money , basically so that she could go and get high After seeing that , don't blame her .

I mean , if you saw something like that , I would say anything to not be hanging on a hook next to her .

Diana Melnick was last seen On October 1996, . Tanya Holick was last seen January 1997 , kerry Koski , june 1997, . Helen Hallmark was reported missing . September 1998 , vancouver police set up a team to review the files of the women that gone missing as far back as 1971 .

January 1999 , jacqueline MacDonald was reported missing 1999 , was Georgina Papin , brenda Wolfe and Jennifer Firminger was last seen April 1999, . Police post a $100,000 reward for any information on the missing women . So by this point , like 1999 , 2000 , that kind of year they were the police were really starting to see an issue coming up . Which years too late .

The police and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police formed Project Evenhand to take over the stagnant police investigation for the missing women because they just weren't getting anywhere . To be honest , I don't know whether they just weren't getting anywhere or whether they weren't fully investigating yeah doing it well enough .

I mean , they weren't doing it well enough , and even they admit that now . October 2001, . Diane Rock is reported missing . November 2001 , mona Wilson by January 2002 , the task force had 50 names on the list . It was in early February 2002 , when the police finally managed to get a warrant 2002 .

It's a bit of a famous thing , isn't it Like never trust anyone who's got a Picton Farm , anyway . So now they had their chance . They had a tip off about a stash of illegal firearms . I mean , part of me wonders if they did actually have a tip off or whether they were like we need to search that farm . Oh , we got a tip .

But anyway , they had a tip off about stash of illegal firearms and it gave them what they needed to search the farm . But the warrant , what they found was so much worse than they thought . So the police did find the illegal firearms , strangely enough , but they also found a lot of items belonging to several of the missing women . They found purses , ids .

They found an ID that belonged to Heather Bottomley and an asthma inhaler that belonged to Serena Abbotsway . Both brothers were arrested immediately and David was actually released . The next day A further search warrant was obtained and by this time the police had turned the place inside out .

What they found was the work of the most prolific serial killer that Canada has ever seen . The officers discovered human skulls that had been cut in half like that , with mummified hands and feet bound up inside oh , I know . Bloody clothes and jaw bones with teeth .

Photos of the remains of a woman later proved to be Mona Wilson , in a rubbish bin , a Spanish fly aphrodisiac , several pairs of handcuffs , night vision goggles and a.22 revolver with a dildo on the barrel . Oh , prepare yourself .

Willie was asked about this and he said that he used it as a silencer when he used to shoot the pigs Right , right , this is horrible . I mean not the rest of it isn't , but the dildo was found to have the DNA of Picton on it and one of the victims . Forensic said at least one of the women had been shot in the vagina whilst being penetrated with it .

Oh my God , I know .

Actually , I'm gonna try something else that doesn't occur in everybody .

But my thing is , when you go from being a normal person , a normal person , to the outside world , you either take that step to then become a murderer or you don't . And there's probably billions and billions of people on this planet that have got that dark side in them . But what is it that's stopping that ? Is it the love of their family ?

Is it the fact that they wouldn't be able to let their partner down or their parents down , or there's something that's holding that back and holding it in ?

And for other people , they either don't hold it in or something happens in their life that then they can't hold it in anymore , and then it comes out and then they start killing , or I wish I knew , because this is a conversation I had with Josie the other day when we was watching about the pedophile was that I don't know about you .

Well , how many times in my life have I heard someone say , yeah , but that's your choice , it's up to you , and they feel like they're saying the right thing and it's like it's not my choice . If I had my choice , I wouldn't be gay , because it's been .

At times it's been really difficult and when I was a teenager and I was finding myself and I used to go to a gay club in Chelmsford , it was scary , you know , it was scary , and this was in the 90s , you know , and it was .

We would come out and there would be groups of people other kids , teenagers that just wanted to beat people up because they knew that it was kicking out time at a gay club or pub . It wasn't a club , so that's how they got their kicks , you know . They would come down and they would stand outside and it was scary .

And it's like so for me when people used to say to me yeah , but that's your choice . You know , it's never been my choice . I would never . It would have been much easier for me to have fallen in love with a guy , had a normal existence . I had to hide it from many people because I didn't feel comfortable enough .

And even now , even now , in this day and age , there will still be people that will assume that Claire is not my partner . Oh , you know , is this your friend ? Or even when we're at the hospital , oh , you know , your friend can wait there , and you know , and things like that .

And it's like no , she's not my friend , she's my partner , she's actually my fiance now , you know , and things like that . Even when I had a , they wanted to do an ECG and she said about oh , hang on , I just need to pull the curtain and that . And I said that's my partner .

So , and she went oh , sorry , sorry , you know , it happens all the time but it's not a choice and I get that with pedophiles . I understand that it's not a choice but , like you said , they know it's wrong , they know it's illegal .

There are pedophiles that I've seen , you know , on certain documentaries that have chosen to , you know , hospitalize themselves and have the chemical castration , you know , and things like that . And I think I don't think bad of them because they've never acted on it . And I think that must be really hard , it must be , really hard to feel something like that .

Imagine for us if you're in love with Josie and I'm in love with Claire and someone came up to us and said that's illegal , which in some places it is . Yeah you know that's illegal . If you act on that you're gonna go to prison . You know you're breaking the law . Get help . If you feel like that , you get help . I think do you know what ?

Good for you you didn't act on it . When you act on it , you're the scum of the earth . Yeah , that's . I can't get past that . You're taking someone else's choice away . You know children can't make that choice to be in a sexual relationship because they're children .

You know , when people murder and rape and do things like that , it's like that whole thing in it where you hear kids saying I think most kids go through it when you say to them don't do that , and they go I can if I want , you know , and it's like , no , you can't .

You need to get used to this world telling you no because if you're like I can if I want attitude gonna end up in prison . Yeah , there were several heads and limbs in the freezers and the deeper the police dug , unfortunately , the more they found . There were bags and bags of blood stained clothes . There was a big blood stained mattress .

Clumps of hair and small bones were found everywhere at the farm . There were packs of ground meat in the freezers which , when tested contained the DNA of several of the victims , so he actually processed .

One of the investigators , darryl Hetherington , kept pigs herself , so she went off to check the animals and she found that the pigs were without food , without water and the pens were like literally filling up with muck . One of the sales had recently given birth but the piglets had slid down into the muddy yard and they were all dead .

There were other pigs in horrendous state . One was unable to stand because its leg was so infected that it was just rotting away while it was still alive . She called the vet straight away and several of the pigs had to be put down . The following day she brought food from her own farm and fed the other pigs that were all still relatively okay .

But I mean , god bless her . Like there's all that going on and she's witnessing one of the most horrific like murder crime scenes that they've ever seen . And she was off at her farm getting food and bringing it back for the pigs and for the piggies , I know , bless her .

British Columbia Health officials issued an alert for anyone who had meat from the Picton's farm . Oh , can you imagine ? Oh God , and they were A recall ? Yeah , it was . They were told to hand it in place , but you can take human flesh . Yeah , and it did .

But she'd worked with Willie for years on the farm and she'd taken hundreds , several hundreds of pounds of ground meat every month to distribute to the many meat shops all over the area . And she was just like Jesus Christ .

I mean to get like hep C anyway , but to get it through eating people Moving on . Even though some of the meat was obviously like human remains , it's also worth mentioning that even the meat that was pork , it was from pigs that have been fed on human remains .

I didn't include it , but Lisa I think it was Lisa that said that quite often Willie would take pigs and things and other animals like cows and things like that from the meat market and he would get it for a really good price because he would process meat that was like from animals that had like abscesses and things like from animals that would quite clearly be

diseased and ill with different things and he would get them cheap and then he would just process the meat and sell it off like nothing . So it's probably a lot of people that were ill from his meat anyway .

Yeah , the wood chipper at the farm had part of a foot in it and the pig stars , when dug over , were found to have a lot of teeth and bone fragments in the bottom of the stars . So obviously they'd just been put in the stars and the pigs had just worked through what they could eat . A wrist bone was found as a DNA match for Georgina Papins .

More and more pieces were discovered as the police dug . There were toes and heel bones and human ribs . There was a lot of that that was found . Many pieces of vertebrae were found and they showed that they had been cut with a reciprocating saw Showing that the body had been cut in half lengthwise .

Whilst hung up , exactly the same way that Picton did with the pigs , picton hid the skulls and hands and feet as they were obviously human , but we can only assume that he passed the arm and leg bones off as animal waste to the rendering plant , as no arm and leg bones were ever found at the farm , so they must have been shipped off .

Willie Picton was a small framed man . He weighed about £155 , which is about 11 stone , remember Ratface . So he was of a rat frame Gawnt , yes , and he'd been butchering women for years and just feeding them to the pigs . Oh , it's just sick . Willie Picton had an undercover officer placed in his cell with him after he was arrested .

Yeah but I watch that video .

Picton lured the girls back to his place with the promise of drugs and money . He then raped them and murdered them in the most horrific ways . Some of these victims were stabbed to death , some were injected with antifreeze , some were strangled , others were shot .

So he really tried a whole array of murder and he said after that he would bleed them and gut them , chop them up and feed them to the pigs . Whatever the pigs left , he would just send the rendering plant . On 22nd of February 2002 , picton was charged with two counts of first degree murder , which was Serena Abbotsway and Mona Wilson .

On the 2nd of April , three more charges were added Jacqueline Macdonald , diane Rock and Heather Bottomley . On the April 9th , a sixth charge was added , which was Andrea Joesbury , followed soon after by Brenda Wolfe , september 20th . Georgina Papin , patricia Johnson , helen Hallmark and Jennifer Firminger were also added October 3rd .

Heather Chinook , tanya Hollick , sherry Irving and Inger Hall were added , bringing the total to 15 .

On 26th of May 2005 , 12 more charges were added , which was Cara Ellis , andrea Borhaven , deborah Lynn Jones , marnie Frey , tiffany Drew , kerry Koski , sarah DeVres , cynthia Felix , angela Jardine , wendy Crawford , diana Melnick and Jane Doe they don't know who she was bringing the total of first degree murder charges to 27 .

Forensic pathologists spent the next two years sifting through 370,000 cubic yards of mud and pigment to find the pieces of the missing women . The trial began in 2006, . The judge decided to split the trial into six and 20 , with one being dismissed due to lack of evidence and because they didn't know who this Jane Doe was or when she was killed .

So they had like zero evidence to prosecute him for that , which is really sad that they just have never found out who she was . And she met this hideous , brutal end to her life , and no one knows anything about her . These six were chosen by the judge as the judge deemed them to be materially different to the other 20 . Picton pled not guilty Right .

On the 9th of December 2007 , after nine days of deliberation , the jury gave its final verdict and they found Willie Picton guilty of six counts of second degree murder . On the 11th of December 2007 , supreme Court Judge James Williams sentenced Willie Picton to life in prison , with no eligibility for parole for 25 years .

Apparently , that's the highest punishment possible . That's crazy , isn't it it is .

Upon sentencing , the judge said Mr Picton's conduct was murderous , and repeatedly so . I cannot know the details , but I know this . What happened to them , as in the women , was senseless and despicable . There is nothing I can say to express the revulsion the community feels about these killings .

The women who were murdered , each of them , were members of our community . They were women who had troubled lives . Each of them found themselves in positions of extreme vulnerability . They were persons who were in the ugly grasp of substance abuse and addictions , persons who were selling their bodies to strangers in order to survive .

As Judge Williams read the sentence , two of the female jurors wiped away their tears and Willie Picton finally showed some emotion . He smirked You'd punch his face in , wouldn't ?

I know I'd be a rubbish judge , but that's definitely you know . Like we say about your buttons , you get people smirking . Such a massive button for me . Well , like when you're trying to tear the kids off , they're like any kind of smirking , like I just absolutely hate it . It's a proper button pusher . And it's like people smirk Like I become aggressive .

I'm like , why are you fucking smirking ? Why are you laughing ? Oh , I can feel it giving me the rage now . No one's even trying , it's only me that's smirking .

I remember when Channel 4 came out , we only had BBC One , bbc Two and ITV . That was it . And the telly went off at midnight .

So you'd put it on and it would say like this ends our broadcast , and then it would play a little tune , and then it'd be , and then it would be like that for I don't know , like 10 minutes , 15 minutes , and then it would go to snow .

So , yeah , that's not enough , I know , but the reason that they did that was because they wanted to spare the families the yeah , like traumatic Trialing , yeah , and the thing is that that was like one of the most traumatic trials that had gone on , and that was six of the women . You imagine doing that for 20 .

So , yeah , you know , I guess the judges are like you know what we need to do ? A little bit of damage limitation on all sides . The police have apologized unreservedly to the families of the victims and the local community for their sluggish response and failure to see the monster in their midst .

Today , picton is 73 years old and he is serving life in Port Cartier , a maximum security prison in Quebec . David Picton denied all knowledge of his brother's crimes and , according to reports , he was seen in the downtown Vancouver area where his brother found his victims in 2011 .

But his exact whereabouts remains a mystery and when I was looking , when I was researching some of this on the internet , I actually saw that there was a post not a missing poster , but it was like a missing poster with a picture of Dave Picton saying there's been reports that Dave Picton has been seen in this area .

If you see this man call this number and all that , so everyone , because we don't know , do we ? He could have been . He could have been involved in a lot of it . He was a spiteful git . Yeah , dave Picton . So who's to say that he wasn't involved in it ? Yeah , who knows , maybe he's got the potential to continue it on .

Dave and his sister Linda brought a lawsuit against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police , the Mounties , for damages to the property , the RCMP , the audacity , I know . Apparently , the Mount is disturbed , disrupted , killed and destroyed various plants .

The province has a 10 million lian on the property to secure the recovery of legal expenses relating to the Picton trial . I'm not surprised if it cost them like 100 and something million . Today the farm has been completely dismantled and all that remains on the site is a few mounds of earth with a chain link fence around it .

Friends and family of the deceased women would like to see it turned into a memorial park , but currently the only residents there are Canadian geese .

What do you reckon ?

I think that's traumatised him from a young age , and because trauma can change the chemistry in the brain , can't it ? Yes , it does so at a young age , doesn't it ? At a young age , I think that was a very traumatic event for him .

Seeing that and witnessing that and then , being at a young age as well , taught how to slaughter the pigs , that all kind of desensitises you to what he's doing basically . So to do that to something else wouldn't be any different . So I think that it stemmed from that , from when his cow was murdered and hung up , and he's witnessed that .

I think that's why , then , he did the same thing to his victims .

Without getting caught . He did it a lot . He did like 49 times he killed someone . He did what he wanted to do with them . He killed them . He processed them exactly like he would with the pigs . He only had small bits to hide , if you like , so he only had to hide the head , hands and feet . They didn't really do ?

You know , and I think after he did that a few times he probably thought it maybe gave him a sense of like power . He must have had some kind of enjoyment out of it when he did it .

So they're always striving to achieve something and that's why they've got all this money and then they go down the route of drugs and things like that , because they're still not getting what they think that they want or what they need . So I think it's a similar thing .

Yes , and that in the previous episode you said that he just wanted to be normal and he kept saying to people I want a normal life , and I think that's because he knew inside himself that he wasn't normal . So he wanted to be normal and do normal things because he didn't feel normal , and then he finally relented to the fact that that's never going to happen .

So I'll just do what I want to do .

She went off and went to a room , I don't know , slept , had a nap , got high , whatever it was she was doing , and he thought , well , I've got hooker now , so I'll go and do it . But his first reaction when she came to the barn and was like , oh my God , he was like be quiet .

Yeah , yeah , he knew what he was doing , but he didn't ever try and like include someone in on it or anything . You know it was like he's . It became his enjoyment . I think yeah , I think he just enjoyed doing it and I actually don't think he was aware that he'd like he was trying to get to the big 5-0 . I don't believe that .

I don't think he would have had any idea of how many women he killed . Yeah , and I think it was when they said you , you are going to be like . We've found evidence of like 49 women .

That's why we're all here , that's why we're all listening and talking , because we just feel some sort of urge to get in the side .

And it's oh , it's strange to say that you enjoy watching those things or you enjoy reading about those things , because it's it's a strange thing to enjoy , but it's a fascination because you don't understand it . So you've got to consume all of this information to be able to .