Angie Colee (00:00):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that
Angie Colee (00:05):
Gives you a virtual
Angie Colee (00:06):
Seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs, helming nine figure companies.
Angie Colee (00:17):
If you've
Angie Colee (00:18):
Ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up,
Angie Colee (00:23):
This
Angie Colee (00:23):
Show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and let's get to it.
Angie Colee (00:32):
Hey, and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass with me today is my new friend, Ryan Urban. Say hi.
Ryan Urban (00:38):
Hi, Angie. How are you?
Angie Colee (00:39):
I couldn't stifle the chuckle because like right before I hit record, I took a sip of what I thought was water, and I forgot I made myself Gatorade. And that has just been the nature of our conversation Before we hit record, we've already been laughing and chuckling, so of a feeling this is going to be a good one.
Ryan Urban (00:53):
Well, you said it wasn't water. No, I was wondering if it was gin.
Angie Colee (00:56):
Oh, oh, man. If only I was feeling that spicy. Uh, I think I'd have to save that for the last episode of the day instead of starting off strong with the first episode. ,
Ryan Urban (01:05):
There you go.
Angie Colee (01:07):
Uh, well, tell us a little bit about your business.
Ryan Urban (01:09):
Well, I'm, uh, the author of the Business Owner's Guide to Money, uh, that's a book. And I do a podcast by the same name, the Business Owner's Guide to Money. Uh, and up until, uh, a Halloween day of last year of 2022, I was a financial advisor, and I was, I was in the field for a little over 20 years, and, uh, one day, uh, out of nowhere the phone rang and somebody wanted to buy me out, and I'm not as dumb as I look. I took 'em up on it and, uh, I, I wasn't ready to retire, but I, I wasn't gonna say no either. So we moved, uh, from Colorado to the Carolina Shores, and now I, uh, I work with business owners on an hourly fee basis only. So we're not doing the thing where you're charging 1% or 2% or, uh, it's just more of a, a guidance type thing. So, so that's it. And I, I love doing my podcast, and I I loved having you on,
Angie Colee (02:02):
Uh, the, oh, I got to be on the show recently, and so that's part of why I was saying I already know that this is gonna be a good one. 'cause Ryan and I just connect. It was fantastic. I love that story. And I did not know that, like, I knew that you were a financial advisor. 'cause you had told me about the book and I've been on your show, but the whole, like, being bought out, having to relocate, figuring out what you're doing next with life, like, that's always been a fascinating con uh, construct to me, especially since here in the States in capitalist culture, our identity can be so deeply tied to the work that we do that like, people who retire really suffer 'cause they don't know what to do with themselves anymore. I love that you found a way to make a new work set up for yourself, a new identity, reinvent yourself. Did you struggle with that at all, ?
Ryan Urban (02:51):
Well, when I, when I retired, I thought, you know, I made the big announcement. I told my wife and daughters that I was retiring, and they laughed and they said, yeah, right. That's
Angie Colee (03:03):
Nothing better than family love.
Ryan Urban (03:05):
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm serious. I'm really gonna retire. And I've, you know, and I'm really ready. And I just tucked myself into it. Well, six weeks later, uh, it turns out they were all right and I'm an idiot, but, but, but I, I had everything ready to go. I, you know mm-hmm. , I had the book I love, I love doing the podcast. And so it wasn't like I was having to, to make a big change. So, uh, uh, that's what happened. And, and when, when we, we sold a house in Colorado, then we moved out here, we bought this house, and it was a very weird time. Mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (03:35):
, um,
Ryan Urban (03:36):
When that happens, especially when it happens outta nowhere, you know? Uh, yeah.
Angie Colee (03:40):
But
Ryan Urban (03:41):
Yeah, that's how it worked. And, and I'm still vertical and e everything worked out fine. We love it out here.
Angie Colee (03:45):
Yeah. It's still vertical. I think that's probably my favorite quote so far. We'll, we'll see if we can talk that today. But, uh, wow. That just, and to be approached with an offer to be bought out out of the blue, I love that you brought that up, because I think especially I, I work mostly with freelancers, people who start a creative service business and eventually grow into some other form of a business. Right. And I think a lot of folks don't even think about that as one of the potential end games because it's not the traditional, like VC being purchased path. Mm-hmm. , do you wanna explore that one a little bit more with me? Like, what was the experience like figuring out that you wanted to sell your business and, and working your way through that process?
Ryan Urban (04:27):
Well, it, you know, it's, it's, it so ironic the way things worked out because I, I had, part of what I do in the book is I have this list of 16 things, and, and it's, it's great that you hit on this, that, that a business owner, you know, a lot of business owners, and I, I know you've met them, that, that I call it the look where, where you'll say, well, so what's your exit plan? And they'll look at you like, exit plan, what do you mean? Mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (04:48):
. And I say,
Ryan Urban (04:48):
Look, you, you can build equity in this thing. You, you know, you can make this worth something, you know? So I, I had this list of 16 things in the book that I, that I, um, you know, recommend to clients to, to make their business more valuable and to work better. Mm-hmm. . But fortunately, I followed my own advice, and I, I was standing there in my kitchen one day and the phone just rings outta nowhere. And the guy says, um, we, we know of you and, and we're interested in merging. Would you like, would you like to, to discuss? And I said, you know, ah, uh, uh, no, I'm, I'm probably, and I didn't mean it was imminent. I said, I'm probably closer to retiring. And he goes, oh, well, that could work too. And okay, uh, uh, so we, we went out to dinner and, and, uh, or, or to lunch, and that was in July. Uh, we went over the numbers a few times. Uh, we worked out the terms, which, which is really important when you sell your business, the, the terms . Uh, you really have to be careful there. Um, and sure enough, um, you know, OC October 31st, uh, we sat down and signed the deal, and, and that was it. So it was, it was a real whirlwind, uh mm-hmm. . But fortunately I listened to my own advice on, on kind of preparing that way. It was easier to sell, you know? Mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (06:00):
Uh,
Ryan Urban (06:00):
Yeah. Very strange, very strange time.
Angie Colee (06:03):
That was, I mean, that's really interesting to me. And, you know, it brings up another question that I have in my head that I know there's kind of two schools of thought with negotiating things like that. One is kind of cagey and keep it close to the vest. And another one is to approach it with openness. Like, here's my goals, here's your goals. How do we find a way to meet up mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , do you, did you approach with either one of those, and if so, what was the reason why?
Ryan Urban (06:26):
I, I did it aware. I wanted it to be a win-win situation. I wasn't trying to hose them over. I just, I, you know, I, I wanted, um, uh, there, there really, there are two things when, when you sell a business, one is the number, kind of like the, you know, the, the, the gross number. And then secondly, again, are the terms. And so, uh, that, that took longer. Yeah. Uh, because it's a fairly com I mean, a financial advisory is a slightly complicated, you know, thing. And, uh, but, uh, they had the same, they were really good people. And so they, they had the same outlook that I did. And, and they knew that, that they wanted, in fact, when they first, when they first made their offer, uh, it was a, it was a fully fair offer. They didn't play games, you know, and, and we tweaked it here and there. But, but other than that, so it's really important, and I'm glad you bring that up, because if someone is, is gonna be selling their business, y'all gotta be on the same page. And if you feel you can't trust the other person, make sure you have an attorney or mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (07:27):
Something.
Ryan Urban (07:28):
'cause you don't know. But, uh, and we, we did it the way we did it was, um, I got 90% of the sale price
Angie Colee (07:36):
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Urban (07:37):
Upfront. And then I, I love the kitty
Angie Colee (07:40):
. Yes, I know your kitties there. Stella just interrupted our, our recording for everybody following a lot .
Ryan Urban (07:45):
And the 10% that remained was a workout. And it said that if, um, if as long as less than 10% of my clients leave, I get that full 10% over the next 12 months, and about 3% left. And so I got that 10% after, after the time period. So that was, that was the only term that was really simple. Mm-hmm. like
Angie Colee (08:07):
That, because that's a good incentive for, you know, you to keep going to help make that transition smooth. Yeah. Uh, to not check out, which I know we all, that's, I don't say checkout with any kind of judgment. We all reach periods in our business where it's like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna just for a little while. I don't want it, can't this thing just run without me. Um, so I love that having kind of a built-in, exactly like you said, a win-win incentive to make sure that we are all working together toward the same goal. And I love that you brought that up too, that it's important when considering something like this, that you're in alignment. I don't, we talk about alignment enough, especially like with the people that I work with, people who are in the creative services industries. Like, have you ever thought about your values, people that you want to do business with?
Angie Colee (08:54):
Because I know when I first started, any money was good money. Anybody that hires me, any project that they wanna pay me to write on score winning. Yeah. And then I quickly figured out that some money is really, really expensive, . And like, I don't want to be beholden to certain industries where I've gotta like write around in circles to fool people into buying something that I know is not great from the, from the outset. And so, like, I had to set those terms for myself that we're in alignment. We sell great products to people who need them. We don't pressure people into buying that they don't need just because other people are walking around with my money in their pocket. And it's my job to go earn it. Like, if that's your school of thought, hey, cool, I hope you find someone that's in alignment with you that doesn't feel like you're scamming them out of money. I'm sure that they're out there, but like, that doesn't vibe with me. It doesn't make me feel good. And I can in good conscience take people's money. I'm sure that I could have been like a bajillionaire many times over by now. If I just felt comfortable going around being like, you got my money. I'm gonna find a way to get it. I'm very persuasive,
Ryan Urban (09:52):
Angie. I, I, I believe in karma. You know, I, I, um, uh, I'll tell you a a very quick story. I, I fired my biggest client. Ooh. And, and I did this about a year into, into it when I was still a struggling advisor, because it takes two or three years, years to build this thing mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (10:10):
.
Ryan Urban (10:10):
And he was, well, go ahead and, you know, pick your favorite bad term for somebody, you know, he was an . He, you know, more than anything else, he was unreasonable.
Angie Colee (10:21):
Mm. And, and I,
Ryan Urban (10:23):
And I, he had mean, he, he had over seven figures with me.
Angie Colee (10:28):
Mm.
Ryan Urban (10:29):
And and I, I said, you know, I, I, I sat with him and he, he let me have it over something that had nothing to do with me. And I said, you know, I, I don't think this is gonna work out. And you know what? I survived, you know mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (10:39):
and,
Ryan Urban (10:40):
And I, and looking back, I'm glad I did that. Now, that's not something you want to have happen every other day.
Angie Colee (10:45):
Oh.
Ryan Urban (10:46):
But every once in a while, it, it's good for you to, to stick up and, and you were talking about, um, you know, values. Well, values can be, uh, look, I can be cynical here. Values can be a marketing device. Mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (11:00):
, right?
Ryan Urban (11:01):
And, and so there's another thing where you, if you, if you stick to your values, but you communicate your values well then again mm-hmm. win-win situation, you get to be what you want. And then you attract people who like that
Angie Colee (11:13):
. Exactly. Exactly. I have, you know, I have kind of a related story, and it's interesting, I, I, I usually record in batches. And before this particular rounds, when I started recording again last week, I wasn't using the video as part of the promotion process. And then of course, TikTok came on the scene and it's been helping podcasters get the word out there. So I'm like, we're gonna embrace the video, even if it means Stella crashes, it . So something I've never had a chance to really show guests is the fact that I've got these little tattoos on my wrist, right? Mm-hmm.
Ryan Urban (11:42):
.
Angie Colee (11:43):
Mm-hmm. , uh, this one says, respect. This one says, hope this one says truth. And this one says honor. Hmm. And I got those in my early twenties, back when tattoo culture still wasn't quite the thing that it is. And I got my libre piercing, which I don't have in, and I remember everybody telling me, well, like, that's it. You're done. You're, you're unprofessional. Nobody's going to wanna work with you. You've got tattoos. Like, what kind of person gets tattoos? And I'm like, did you, did you even, but like, let's talk about the meaning of the tattoos, though. Like, what kind of person gets those tattoos in a visible spot, right? Like Yeah.
Ryan Urban (12:18):
Yeah. And
Angie Colee (12:19):
A funny thing happened right after people started telling me that the people that they were concerned weren't hiring me, didn't even notice I had tattoos. Mm-hmm. , they thought I was wearing bracelets, , or, and so they would only see it if I sat down and did something like this. And then they notice it's a word and they'd go, oh, wow, that's interesting. And that's a pretty sri and what language is that in? And why did you get that? And it started this fascinating conversation that ultimately led to me being able to have a values conversation like that where like, yes, they face me. They don't face the other person. It's a visible daily reminder of who I want to be someone that is full of hope, honor, respect, and truth. Uh, and that to me at least, makes it easier for me to make decisions. 'cause anytime I would be tempted to take a shortcut, shortcut or do something that benefits me and not the person that I'm working with, I look down and go, is this in alignment with who I am? Okay, cool. We gotta do this the hard way, but it's for the best for everybody involved. That's who we are. Right. Look
Ryan Urban (13:19):
What happens. It, it, it gives you clarity. Mm-hmm. , you know, it gives you goalposts, you know, and there's, there's nothing wrong with that. It's kind of funny that, well, nowadays it's, it's almost, it is strange to not have tattoos, but, but back then, when it was a little bit new, I mean, people were, were a little oversensitive, I think, to that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And, and again, you know, you've had messages. It's not like you had a, a, a, you know, a full-sized devil on your back or something,
Angie Colee (13:45):
Come on. And even so, like these days, I'm more tempted to ask somebody, Ooh, what was the thought process behind that? Why did you get that? Because I know I've got like a picked off the wall, one on my back that was like, flames and tribal arts. That's the only one that I don't like. But everything else that I've got has some sort of significant personal meaning. I've got one on this shoulder that says, don't need permission or approval. Uh, I got that after leaving a very abusive relationship where, you know, over time I stopped believing in myself, and I started believing the stuff that my partner was feeding me, that I wasn't worthy, that I wasn't enough, that I didn't know any better, and that nobody wanted what I had to offer. And like, after I left, I was like, I don't need permission and I don't need approval.
Angie Colee (14:24):
I'm gonna do things my own way. I've got one on this arm that's kind of like a nighttime campfire scene, and I love it. And it's a reminder to take time to enjoy the small things and to trust that everything is going to work out. And it came from a very, like, hard time in my life when I was living in Los Angeles. I had just been laid off from the Oprah Winfrey network. Uh, shout out to Oprah's. People call me because I'm gonna be your favorite thing. But, so I'd just gotten laid off. I'm having trouble getting another job. I'm getting a little bit desperate. And one of my friends says, we need to get you outta town. Like, you need to stop worrying. And I started freaking out and going, but no, I got like, I gotta do coffee dates, and I gotta send out resumes, and I gotta do interviews.
Angie Colee (15:06):
Like I got, I got to find a job, and I was stressing out so much that I think I was probably emanating it toward anybody within a 50 foot radius. Like, they probably felt the energy just coming off me. Yeah. So she takes me camping, and at the time, you know, cell service was a lot weaker than it is now. So we go up on this mountain, I'm outta range. I'm out of pocket for several days, and I finally feel my shoulders starting to come down, and I'm getting better sleep, and I'm relaxing. And every night we listen to this one super peaceful song while looking at the stars, sitting by the campfire. And it was just so magical. So fast forward to the end of this trip, I'm feeling much more human than I have in months. And we drive down and I start getting pings on my phone as it comes into service. And it turns out that while I was up on this mountain, I got a job offer. And so I'm just sitting here with the realization of like, I have spent all this time freaking out feeling like if I'm not taking action, I'm not doing anything, but I've already been taking action. And I just need to trust that that action is out there doing its job somewhere. Mm-hmm. . And that it's okay for me to actually enjoy myself even though I'm not at my goals yet.
Ryan Urban (16:17):
Recharge. Yeah. Very good. Recharge.
Angie Colee (16:20):
I didn't know that story was gonna come out today. That was a random one, but hey, it was a good one. Uh, you know, and I love to remind people from time to time that your timing is your own. And so if you feel like you're not moving fast enough, or you feel like you are, uh, you know, not moving slow enough, you, that you're moving a little bit too speedy. You get to build your thing your way in your own time. And that's the era that we live in now. Like,
Ryan Urban (16:41):
Fantastic. You know, that's very close to what I tell my daughters all the time. And, and, and that is that, that it's a big world out there, but you don't need to be a part of the big world. You can create your own world. And you, you, when someone wants to be a part of the big world, they tend to want to do th they want to impress and satisfy other people. Mm-hmm. Well, that's not what this is about. I'm sorry. You can help other people. And, and I, I love that anybody would want to do that. Yeah. But you can create a small world on your own with your, with, with your own realities, your own friends, and not worry about the rest of it. Yeah. And do just fine. And I'll bet your, your stress level and your, your blood pressure are gonna be lower at the same time, .
Angie Colee (17:23):
Oh, yeah. I used to give a lot of thought to, you know, I, I was frankly scared to put myself out there being that strong persona, uh, owning a hundred percent of who I am, uh, good and bad. Right. 'cause it's not gonna be for everybody. I was so afraid of the haters. And now I realize looking back, that that was just giving all of my power to them because they could shut me up before I even said anything because I was scared of their reaction. Mm-hmm. Now I'm just like, there are too many people on, on this planet with too many opinions for me to pay attention to anybody who's not in my circle. Like, if, if you're not feeding me, if you're not financing me, if you're not one of my friends, I really don't care what you have to say about my behavior. You can scroll on, you can click mute, you can block me for all I care. Go away. We're not going to enjoy each other. And that's fine. Go play over there.
Ryan Urban (18:12):
If we're lucky, we figure out somewhere along the way that that kind of stuff, that hate stuff is about them and not about us. Yes.
Angie Colee (18:19):
And
Ryan Urban (18:20):
Once that light goes on, it's really freeing. It's, it's it, again, clarity, you know, it really
Angie Colee (18:24):
Opens
Ryan Urban (18:25):
Your eyes. And, and for some people, I don't think it ever hits 'em, but, but you want it to. I hope it does.
Angie Colee (18:30):
Yes. I hope it does too. That, that image of the crabs in a bucket, I don't know if you've ever heard that analogy. That has always stuck out to me that, uh, if there are a bunch of live crabs in a bucket and one tries to climb out, that the crabs will start pulling the one that's climbing back down in with them. And so I get that image every time I see a hater that like, that's just crabs stuck in a bucket, and they're trying to pull the escapee back down with them. Like, I don't have to accept that claw off my own arm in order to get away from these guys.
Ryan Urban (19:02):
I'm gonna steal it.
Angie Colee (19:03):
And exactly like you said, that's, that's about them. That's about them saying, no, this is normal. This is where you belong. Come back down here with us. No,
Ryan Urban (19:11):
No. . Bye. Thanks for your interest, but no .
Angie Colee (19:15):
Yes. Yeah.
Ryan Urban (19:16):
Yeah.
Angie Colee (19:17):
And this, like, one of the things that I told you before, uh, recording that I really wanted to cover was, we had talked about doing a whole bunch of things until you figured out what you wanted to be when you grew up. And that you did that for 20 years. I found that fascinating. And I think a lot of people who feel like they haven't arrived yet, or they don't know what their thing is, and they're feeling a little bit behind would benefit from that. So do you wanna go into that a little bit deeper?
Ryan Urban (19:39):
Sure. Uh, I, I, my degree, uh, from San Jose State is in, uh, broadcast journalism. And so I was in broadcasting for 20 years. And, and most of that time was spent. Um, I, I was, I started in news, but for some reason, uh, a program director one time thought I would make a good morning host guy. Mm-hmm. ,
Angie Colee (19:57):
Right?
Ryan Urban (19:58):
Where you get up at three 30 in the morning and you're funny at five 30. And, uh, I, I did that for a long time. And, but the weird thing was, Angie, all the way along, I kept thinking to myself, this is just what I'm doing now.
Angie Colee (20:11):
Mm-hmm. un until
Ryan Urban (20:12):
I grow up. It's, it was weird. I, you know, 'cause that's a, that is a career. So I, I'll never forget, I was sitting in my car at a seven 11 in Santa Cruz, California, and I had been doing an appearance, you know, where you'd show up and they pay you and you say hello and
Angie Colee (20:25):
Mm-hmm. .
Ryan Urban (20:26):
And I was looking out my window and going, you know, I don't really like this. What, what do I really want to do? What really excites me? And, and, and the, and the regular thought process hit, the first thing that hit me was finance, be a financial advisor. The second thing that hit me was, nah, you gotta do testing and studying and education. You gotta get all these certifications, blah, blah, blah. Well, what would the, so, so it, then it hit me. This is a very profound little, sitting in front of a seven 11, by the way. Um, it, then it hit me, well, the years, the, the two years, the three years are gonna go by anyway. And, and what do you wanna look back in three years and wish that you had done it? I hate regret. So I just said, ah, you know, and I just went for it. And, um, you know, as I mentioned, the first, the first two or three years when you're an advisor, were rough
Angie Colee (21:17):
Mm-hmm. because
Ryan Urban (21:17):
You're, you're building your business. Uh, but I, I'm, I'm glad I did it. So I, I've had two careers each of a little over 20 years. And, uh, in that order, ,
Angie Colee (21:26):
That, that just makes me so happy. 'cause I know I had a, a similar talk with a dear, uh, my aunt Chris, who has since passed. She passed a little bit before the pandemic, but I remember in her sixties, she went back to school to get her master's degree because she wanted to become a teacher and work with special needs kids. And I was in my twenties at the time, so I'm just kind of flabbergasted of like, why, why? Like, that just seems hard and you're so close to retirement and like all of this stuff. And she goes, I was going to be this age whether I had a degree or not. And I just thought, might as well have the degree. And, you know, up until the day that she passed, she worked with special needs kids because that was what she felt called to do.
Angie Colee (22:06):
And I learned so much from that little interaction and that little phrase. So that's, I feel like that's a message that I come back to time and again on the show. Like, just the act of putting yourself out, out there, being yourself, being brave, saying what you have to say despite the haters, you could say that one right idea at the right time for the right person that winds up changing lives in a massive ripple impact way. Like Aunt Chris decided she was gonna be a teacher, and like all of the lives that she impacted, from that moment on, you decided that you were gonna be a financial advisor and help people with their financial security and feeling, I mean, think about how much misery and suffering comes from financial instability mm-hmm. and not knowing if you're gonna be able to cover your bills. I have been there, I grew up the eldest of three kids of a single mom. So I know that feeling very, very deeply, almost skipped college to stay home and help my mom work to support the family. Uh, my grandmother threatened me with a shotgun though, so that might explain my personality a little bit more.
Ryan Urban (23:06):
Alright, whatever, whatever works, Angie, I'll tell you mm-hmm. , it worked, came out okay. Yeah.
Angie Colee (23:11):
. Yeah. I mean, I just, I remember having this kind of disconnect about wanting to be a person that had impact in the world and thinking that you had to do it on this grandiose scale. You have to be a Mother Teresa. You have to be an Elon Musk, and like, no, you just have to be Angie. Mm-hmm. Angie can make an impact in her small corner of the world and doesn't have to be on the name of eight, on the lips of 8 billion people to make an impact and like focusing small. So that, I guess would be my word of wisdom to anybody listening that like, start small. It may be an exponential impact. You don't have to go for like, grandiosity or nothing.
Ryan Urban (23:44):
Mm-hmm. , no. It's, you know, uh, spending eight or 10 hours a day at a job that you hate. Um, I don't know. That's, that's not my idea of, of quality of life. So if, and you know, also if, if you just follow what you're doing, follow what really excites you, what's gonna happen ultimately is, is you're going to a, you're gonna, you're gonna get better at it.
Angie Colee (24:04):
Mm-hmm. . And
Ryan Urban (24:05):
Then b, you're gonna, you're gonna be in a world of, of other people who are like you. And that can only be good as well, you know?
Angie Colee (24:13):
Yes. I, I'm,
Ryan Urban (24:14):
I'm a big believer. I don't think everybody should be a business owner. I, I really don't. But agreed. If you have a, if you feel a calling and, and you have, if you, if you feel the bravery
Angie Colee (24:26):
Mm-hmm. ,
Ryan Urban (24:26):
Maybe, maybe if you're slightly insane and, and, and, and, and you just, you, you want to jump. Just my feeling is, like I said before, what happens if you look back in five years and go, you know, I wish I had done that. I don't know. I hate that feeling, you
Angie Colee (24:41):
Know? Mm-hmm. , get
Ryan Urban (24:42):
A shot.
Angie Colee (24:42):
Me too. And if you have that feeling right, this is, this is me sending out a whole lot of love to you. Oh. I think we've all been there and we've all had some regrets. And so like, try not to be too hard on yourself, because I don't think that helps anybody be a better person. The fact, like, beating up on yourself, come
Ryan Urban (24:57):
On,
Angie Colee (24:58):
Let, let's get out of that habit. Let's get outta who, who has ever been shamed into success. Tell me that.
Ryan Urban (25:05):
Good point.
Angie Colee (25:05):
Right? Like, I mean, there's a certain amount of power to like the defiant motivator, the negative motivation of people telling you that you won't succeed, and you being like, well, screw you. I'm gonna do it anyway. Right? But that only takes you so far. And after that, there's gotta be something internal that you want, not about proving other people wrong, but something that you want that keeps it going. Right? Yeah. So don't, you can't shame yourself into the path that you want next. Like have the love for yourself that you would have for somebody that you care deeply about when they feel like they're messing up.
Ryan Urban (25:37):
You know? And, and another thing that kind of hits me as, as you say that is that I think the one thing that we tend to do just, uh, probably just part of human nature is it is kinda like Facebook where, where you go online and you see Facebook and you're seeing all the very, very, very best parts of their lives. You know? Yes. These people have magnificent lives and everything is great. Come on. And yeah, we, we forget that the person that we are a little intimidated by, do you think they have a few issues? Do you think they have a few challenges in their life, ? Mm-hmm. You know, we, we tend to then project ourselves onto that and, and will say, or we compare ourselves to it.
Angie Colee (26:13):
Yes. That,
Ryan Urban (26:14):
That makes a shrink.
Angie Colee (26:16):
You know, I, I have been on the receiving end of people kind of assuming that I've got a certain life, especially once they find out that I'm a digital nomad. Uh, and told the story plenty of times, but I became a digital nomad because I got dumped like brutally, unexpectedly dumped Right? As I was deciding to leave my main gig, become this podcast host venture down this path, like my whole world turned upside down. So it was more of a healing journey than a like, let's get me in a bikini on a clip. Like that's, and I'm not making fun of you if that's what you do, but that it wasn't for show what I was doing. It was because I needed to heal. And I remember, you know, these like weird stories that we get in our head when somebody asks you for something, but you interpret it a different way.
Angie Colee (26:57):
Mm-hmm. . So about eight months in, all I'm really doing is sharing pictures of my food and like, random places that I've been to and going like, here's where I am today. And I'm not going any deeper. 'cause for me, going deeper means that I have to share what I'm going through publicly and I'm just not ready to, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so people start telling me right about your adventures, right? We're living vicariously through you. We wanna hear what you're doing and, and like, we want to want take us with you. And I just kept hearing that as, tell us about your grief. Let us in on the drama. Like, I could not understand that people just wanted an escape. And so one day I kind of blew up on that and wrote a, a post called I Don't Wanna Be Your Breakup Guru.
Angie Colee (27:36):
And it was like a 3000 words screed on like, I don't know what I'm doing. I am just trying to find some peace and some healing. I'm learning a lot on these travels. I'll try to be better about writing, but I can't make any guarantees 'cause I'm not doing this for anybody but myself. And that was one of my most popular posts. Like so many people wrote in and said that it touched a nerve, that it really resonated with them that I'm just here, like resisting with all my might being the digital nomad that everybody wants me to be . Yeah,
Ryan Urban (28:05):
Yeah, yeah. You know, we all grieve in our own ways
Angie Colee (28:08):
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Urban (28:09):
And, and in your situation, that's, that's what you had to find it. And you had to, you had to, uh, you know, let it go. Let it, let it happen. Yeah. You can't be forced,
Angie Colee (28:19):
You know, and I think that to me, well, there are impulsive people and there are planners. I'm definitely more on the impulsive side of things. So I will say that with a caveat. I just decided with the options that I had in front of me after that breakup, I didn't like any of them. I didn't wanna be in this town, but I don't know where I'm going to go. So we are going to take the show on the road, and you met my cat, Stella. Stella comes on the road with me, and she has interrupted many a podcast before this . Um, but I, I went into this with no plan and no goal other than find a place that feels like home and see the sites and go to these places where I, I could never get a partner to travel with me before.
Angie Colee (28:55):
And I learned so much about myself just by committing to the thing and then learning how to do it as I was going mm-hmm. than I ever could have with the perfect plan. And so that's been interesting to me. As more and more people have come to me and said, how do I build a life where I go on the road? I'm like, just decide you're gonna do it. Just you'll figure it out. If you're serious about doing it, you won't have a choice once you get out there. Um, and I learned certain things I didn't even know that I needed to learn. Like, if you're going to travel, make sure that you don't take your job with you in a way that has you working all day on someone else, somebody else's couch watching Netflix all night on somebody else's couch and not actually exploring the town that you're here to see. Like Yeah.
Ryan Urban (29:37):
Build
Angie Colee (29:38):
In time for the stuff that you want to do. And I would say that applies to everybody's life. Whether you're a digital noad or not, make time to go see a random Tuesday movie mm-hmm. , make time to take the day off, play hooky, and go see one thing that's in town for one day only because it's important to you and work can wait. Mm-hmm.
Ryan Urban (29:56):
Angie Colee (29:57):
Work can wait.
Ryan Urban (29:58):
You know, that hits me there. There's a, um, there's a, a, a quality that we seem to be losing and, and missing out on a bit mm-hmm. and that's curiosity.
Angie Colee (30:11):
Yes.
Ryan Urban (30:12):
Uh, and we, uh, our, our society is, is set up now in such a way that, that we're much more likely we're, we're much more incentivized to, to lecture than to ask
Angie Colee (30:26):
Mm-hmm. .
Ryan Urban (30:27):
And, and, but, but asking means not just somebody else. It means yourself. It means, you know, if if you want to play hooky mm-hmm. and go play, well, then you have to ask yourself, you know, what do I wanna do? You know? Mm-hmm. what really excites me. And I, I think once you lose your curiosity, you begin to stagnate. And, and yes. Don't let that happen. You know? Um, you know, I, I had it drummed into me 'cause I, I was, you know, being in broadcasting as long as I was, I don't know how many people I interviewed, you know, uh, I interviewed everybody from Ozzy Osborne to Jimmy Page to Ted Nugent, ,
Angie Colee (31:04):
Holy crap.
Ryan Urban (31:05):
And, and you have to, you know, you have to ask questions on the fly, you know? Yeah. But you also have to ask, when you ask yourself a question or somebody a question, it has to be an honest question. It can't just be like a here's a weird, here's an example. I I, and I, I'll never forget this. I don't even know why I'm bringing this up, Angie. You're doing this to me. And, and it's, it's happening. But, okay. There's
Angie Colee (31:27):
A reason
Ryan Urban (31:28):
I couldn't tell you what the name of the band is. I forget. But there's a band out there that's very popular right now, and, and they are very reminiscent of Led Zeppelin.
Angie Colee (31:36):
Hmm.
Ryan Urban (31:37):
Okay. Kind of maybe too much. And I always wondered what Robert Plant thought, you know, the, the lead vocalist thought of this band mm-hmm. . And he was being interviewed by this kid, and the kid asked him, you know, they were talking about it. And, and Robert was talking and the kid asked him a couple questions, Robert answered. And at the very end of Robert's sentence, he said, yeah, but I hate them. And to me, that is like, boom out Vesuvius. That that is, you, you, you structure your entire story around this. The kid wasn't listening and Robert said it, and the kid just went on to his next question. He wasn't listening. I'll ne that hit me like a, I screamed when I heard that. I said, you didn't hear 'em ask questions. You gotta listen, but you gotta listen to yourself too. Mm-hmm.
Angie Colee (32:29):
.
Ryan Urban (32:30):
And so when you're deciding, like your listeners, if they're, if they're saying, you know, I want to go on a new adventure that challenges me, you know, you, you, they have to hear themselves and they have to hear what they really want. Mm-hmm. , because you've got, that's, there's some danger involved, right?
Angie Colee (32:45):
Yes. I was very, when I made that choice to hit the road, it was literally, I had quit my main gig because I did not want to be a copywriter. I didn't wanna be in marketing anymore. I wanted to pivot to coaching, to writing this book. And I didn't quite know what that looked like yet, but I knew that I would never do it until I had the brain space back from being committed to this main gig. Right. That was just preventing me from dedicating the time that I wanted to, to this passion project as it had been for the better part of five years. Um, and so when I hit the road, I did it with no idea of how I was going to make money. No idea whatsoever. I just knew that I had my car, I took money outta savings to, to pay that off, that if worse came to worse, I could go home to parents or I could couch surf, or I could probably do some sort of barter exchange, house sitting thing if I couldn't figure out how to make the money. And guess what, when I had to figure out how to make the money, I did
Ryan Urban (33:46):
Came to you?
Angie Colee (33:47):
I did. Uh, and, and it wound up being, uh, things that were more in alignment with who I am as a person and, and the person that I was moving toward becoming, because I wound up contracting, contracting with a friend of mine who had an agency, but he was very much like anti traditional marketing agency. Mm-hmm. . Like, he didn't wanna have endless meetings. He didn't wanna be on the phone first thing Monday morning and, and into the evening Friday evening. Uh, he didn't want everybody to have to be on the same time zone. So we had contractors from all around the world working with this agency, and we just took the approach that we set this expectation with the clients. Look, meetings, I think we can all agree are by and large a waste of most people's time. So we try to limit this to as few meetings as possible to take care of the business we need to take care of.
Angie Colee (34:36):
And then any questions that come up along the way, you can hit us up on email Slack, or you can shoot us a Loom video and we can answer you in real time instead of having to wait for the, the stars to align. And everybody's calendar's perfectly synced up. And we can meet this one hour, this one day to ask these questions. No, I can just fire the question off to you, and as soon as you're up and you can watch that video, you can fire one off back to me and we can keep this train rolling. That was so freeing to me because then, like I said, it was, it was being on the road that taught me a lot about myself and what I needed this, I started traveling when it was still covid times and there were restrictions on everything. Like you had to schedule tours weeks in advance because of capacity limitations.
Angie Colee (35:17):
And so when I made it to Nashville, about four months in, I wanna go see the Grand Ole Opry. I'm a musician, you gotta go see the musical legends, right? So I go to the Grand Ole Opry, but the only tour during the six weeks that I'm there is on a random Wednesday at 10:00 AM And my first instinct, I remember this very clearly, was, okay, I guess I'm working late tonight. I can take the morning off and go do that, and then I'll just make it up in the evening. And my second instinct was like, no, I'm not making it up this evening. I'm just gonna take the morning off and I will do what work I can when I get back. And that changed everything for me. I started using it's Parkinson's law. The time that the task takes is the time that you allow it.
Ryan Urban (36:00):
Oh,
Angie Colee (36:00):
Sure. So if I say that I'm giving myself two weeks to get my website done, it's probably gonna take two weeks. 'cause all of that stuff will fill up in the interim. Um, but if I say that I'm getting this website done this afternoon, because tomorrow we're hitting go live, and like I'm, I'm sending the link to people, it's on this afternoon. Like, you can move mountains when you decide to. So I just started doing that in my own business where it was like, I schedule the things that are important to me, the places that I wanna visit, the people that I wanna spend time with, and the work fits in around it, and that change the way I do everything.
Ryan Urban (36:32):
I would imagine that that tends to push out a lot of the busy, fluffy stuff too. Yes. The stuff that you didn't need to do. Yeah.
Angie Colee (36:40):
Yes. It, I think it helps make very clear what's for me and what's not for me, because anybody that comes to me for a project or that wants to work, you know, semi full-time, and I've had this right. I'm still a freelance contractor, but they, they have a project and they want me to basically work 40 hours a week on it. The answer is no. It's just not, not unless you let me do the 40 hours at my own pace, at my own time. Uh, and you know, I'll be honest, I am a fast worker, so I've never done 40 hours. Like, not, not in the traditional sense. I can do 40 hours in about 20 hours. Um, but yeah, it's all about the fit and knowing what you want, and you don't have to be the right flavor for everybody. You just don't, you get you,
Ryan Urban (37:23):
It's not, you
Angie Colee (37:23):
Get to be something random and weird.
Ryan Urban (37:24):
Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. . Weird's. Okay. Weird's. Okay. Yep.
Angie Colee (37:28):
. And if you have I having the courage to step out into it and say, this is how I work, that's how you bring those people to you. And I think we get that backwards in business. We go like, if I can find these people or if I can make this work, then I'll know to put my effort into it. Like, no, put your effort into it and you will bring those things to you.
Ryan Urban (37:44):
No. Yeah. And, and the thing is right now is, is such an interesting, interesting time to start a business because everything is so divided. It's, it's so specialized now mm-hmm. that, that, I mean, you know, it, it's like, it's like going onto eBay, you know, and, and you're looking for, uh, uh, penguins. Well, they're gonna be people that sell nothing but penguins or, or purple penguins, you know? Mm-hmm. and, and they're gonna be all kinds of stores who sell nothing but purple penguins, you're, you're gonna, it's gonna happen mm-hmm. , but they sell better purple penguins than anybody else. and, and their quality, you know? So, I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's, I'm a big believer in that, you know, focus on what you do, and
Angie Colee (38:22):
Don't listen to the people that tell you you can't make a living at that. Like, I, I think that's the biggest frustration I have with some coaches out there that I understand being concerned for the person that you're working with and saying, well, I don't know if that's a huge niche. I don't know if there's a match with the goals that you make, but I'm not gonna be the person that tells you, you can or can't make it. I'm gonna show you what I see as an opportunity. I'm gonna show you with what I see as a potential pitfall. And like, let's let you work through that and figure out what your business looks like for you. You may go on to make this a smashing success, selling purple penguins on like a, a multinational level. And you may keep it very tiny. You may move on and decide this is not for you. But mm-hmm. , how, how dare I, as a coach from outside your life tell you, I don't think your business is going to work. Like, here's the pros and cons. You make the decisions because you're the one that has the vision.
Ryan Urban (39:15):
Well, that goes back to regret and mm-hmm. . And that is what if, okay, so I'm gonna listen to somebody else on how to run my business. Okay. So it falls on its face, you know? Mm-hmm. , I'm, I'm living off of credit cards and I'm looking back saying, what if I had just done it my way?
Angie Colee (39:30):
Mm-hmm. ,
Ryan Urban (39:31):
Oh man, I, you don't want that. You don't want to be there. You know,
Angie Colee (39:35):
You don't wanna be there. I, I was talking with another coach about that recently and how, you know, to those people, I say I, I have a lot of love because I get what it's like to be in that unsure place, that spinning place where it feels really reassuring when someone says, I've got the thing. Mm-hmm. , the one thing that you need to be an instant overnight success. I've proven it time and again, just come do my thing. And then they do it with everything you've got. 'cause you've, you're so excited and it doesn't work for you. Do you know what went wrong there? You gave me all your power.
Ryan Urban (40:08):
Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Angie Colee (40:10):
You absolved yourself of making any decisions for the business, even if something didn't feel right for you, you didn't trust yourself, and you trusted me as the coach to know more than, than you about your own life and your own instincts. Mm-hmm. . And so that's, I mean, whenever anybody goes, I was in a bad coaching situation, I'm like, well, I mean, that was a two-way street. That wasn't just the coach that was you deciding I'm not confident enough in myself to trust myself to do these things. And that's not a judgment. 'cause I've been in that place before. And I don't think any time that you spend investing in your own growth is time wasted. As long as you take it from a, either I win or I learn perspective, but if you take it as I win or lose, then yeah, it kind of sucks. ,
Ryan Urban (40:55):
I would imagine being a, a coach for a creative, it's gotta be tough because that has to be, you know, it's, that is not something with which you can use a, a, a template, you know? Mm-hmm. You know, there, there are certain things or certain rules, I'm sure. But as a, as a, a creative uhuh, you know, you tie 'em down and that's, that's, it's not gonna work, I would think.
Angie Colee (41:14):
Yeah. And I, I think you're, you're absolutely right that they're like underlying structures. I think the mistake that most creatives make is thinking that they need no rules or no constraints. Like no creativity loves constraints. You can do incredible things when you're told, here's the box. Yeah. What do you see within that box? And you go, Ooh. But like, like, here are all the different ways I could make this into a 72 sided box and still stay inside this box. Right. Um, but create creatives, I think are a little bit more attached to the business too than normal people. Like we all put a little bit of ourselves into the business. That's part of why entrepreneurship is so hard in my mind. It's like, it's your vision and when it's not going wrong, it can feel very deeply personal. Yeah. Uh, and then creatives are creating something from nothing.
Angie Colee (42:01):
They're putting themselves into that. And so it's hard not to take it personally whenever somebody doesn't like it or they don't share the vision or, you know, any, any number of things. But I think that that's, that creative ability is gonna be even more important in the future as AI starts to be more and more of the same and is just like creating copy of a copy of a copy and just becoming more and more fuzzy and generic, like creative people, entrepreneurs, problem solvers, people who know how to talk to people. That's the wave of the future in my, in my book,
Ryan Urban (42:33):
These people are gonna have an advantage, no question about it. Because I mean, our skills are not, our communication skills are not what they used to be.
Angie Colee (42:40):
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Urban (42:41):
And for the same reasons you just mentioned. And so people who can express themselves and communicate there, this AI thing does bother me.
Angie Colee (42:50):
Yeah.
Ryan Urban (42:50):
Uh, but it's, it, it's still gonna be there. There are so many people who simply don't know how to communicate for themselves effectively, you know, and, and there's a value in that, whether it is through a job or through a, through a contracting, you know, through a business mm-hmm. . But when you're, you're talking about, about what you're selling, uh, being kind of part of important to you. Well, look, if I'm, if I'm selling sleeping bags, you know, and, and you mess with me, I'm not gonna really take it that personally. Yeah.
Angie Colee (43:20):
But if I
Ryan Urban (43:20):
Write a song or, or if I write a commercial, or if I, if I do some graphic art that came out of my head and my heart
Angie Colee (43:28):
Mm-hmm. , and
Ryan Urban (43:29):
Boy, that's a different thing. You don't wanna call it your baby, but eh, you know, it's , it's in that neighborhood, you know?
Angie Colee (43:35):
Yeah.
Ryan Urban (43:36):
It's close to you from inside.
Angie Colee (43:39):
It is. And that's why it's hard not to take that personally. But then the, the advantage that creatives have, and this is, I guess I just think in parallel across industries, like, if I didn't like the sleeping bag and return it, then you are cool to like repackage that and sell it to somebody else, right? Mm-hmm. , it's not any different with creative work guys. If you built something for the client and they don't like it, you get to retain those rights and redo it, re-skin it, rework it a little bit and sell it to somebody else. I mean, obviously don't sell somebody something that they don't need mm-hmm. . But you can reuse and repurpose that work. You can keep it for yourself if your client doesn't like it, and do something for yourself too. So like, again, like none of this time is ever spent wasted in my mind. If you are working toward a goal.
Ryan Urban (44:24):
Yep. Yeah. You can build on old, old creative ideas. Mm-hmm. . And it doesn't have to be all that close. It can just be a piece of an an idea or a piece of a song.
Angie Colee (44:32):
Exactly. Exactly. Oh, this has been fascinating and I wanna keep going for like three more hours, but I'm gonna respect your time. Tell us more about how we can learn about your services and work with you.
Ryan Urban (44:43):
Uh, you go to Alpha four Business Alpha, the number four business.com. And again, I just, I don't do the, the, the big O overarching stuff I used to, it's just an hourly fee as needed if needed. And, uh, you can reach me through there. My email isRyan@alphaforbusiness.com.
Angie Colee (44:59):
I love that, especially for those of you that are on the, you know, early stage or growth stage of your business. And you need somebody that can bring you that outside perspective and that outside wisdom. You can't go wrong with somebody whose prices are clear and upfront like that.
Ryan Urban (45:13):
And I'm never a loss for an opinion. So, uh, not to worry. , you'll hear it .
Angie Colee (45:18):
We think they gathered that from this show. That's fantastic. . So thank you again for being on the show, for sharing your story with us, and we're gonna have to do a part two.
Ryan Urban (45:26):
Absolutely. I'll be there. Thanks, Angie.
Angie Colee (45:30):
That's all for now.
Angie Colee (45:32):
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Angie Colee (45:39):
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Angie Colee (45:41):
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Angie Colee (45:45):
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Angie Colee (45:45):
Angie Colee, and I'm here rooting
Angie Colee (45:47):
For you. Thanks for listening and let's go
Angie Colee (45:49):
Kick Ass some.