Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs, helming nine figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey, and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass with me today is a very special guest, ladies and gentlemen, she's, gays and baes. Everybody listening, I'd love you to meet Matt McWilliams, the affiliate guy.
Matt McWilliams (00:44):
What's up Angie? Thanks for having me.
Angie Colee (00:47):
Tell us a little bit about your business.
Matt McWilliams (00:50):
Uh, that's a, that's a lengthy story. Gosh. Um, no. So today, you know, we're, we're kind of, uh, I have three parts to my business. Uh, the first part is our agency. It's kind of what we're most known for up until recently. And, and probably still, you know, to this, we've worked with some amazing people. Uh, we've run affiliate programs for people like Michael Hyatt, Ryan Leveck, uh, Louis Howes, Ryan Tracy, shark Tanks, Kevin Harrington, uh, Shutterfly, Adidas, uh, bunch of others, Jeff Goins, Ray Edwards, you know, some of the, some of the best people out there. Uh, we've worked with them. Uh, the second, you know, part of our business, um, is we have a coaching program. We've worked with people. You may have heard of a guy named Jeff Walker. Uh, yeah, a little bit. Um, you know, we coached his team, um, Tony Robbins and his team, you know, Dean Graziossi and their big launch, a bunch of others there that we've coached over the years to help their affiliate teams.
Matt McWilliams (01:45):
And then the third part of the business is we work with more beginner to intermediate entrepreneurs to really get into affiliate marketing or to get started with building, building an affiliate program. So all things around building an online business and monetizing that business. And then the fourth piece that we've just recently added actually, is, um, as we actually just purchased, uh, and, and bought and acquired a, um, a WordPress theme company. So really it plays into that third group, helping those, those new entrepreneurs, um, you know, to be able to, okay, you know, you, you got an idea for a a platform, you got an idea for a message. Uh, yeah. Before you get to the monetization phase, you actually need to build the website. And we had so many people asking us over the years, like, well, how do I actually build the website?
Matt McWilliams (02:28):
And I kept re recommending this one company notable themes. I'm like, well, these are the guys that we use who I recommend, uh, go sign up. And we were, I think, we're their biggest affiliate. And finally, after, uh, fears of doing that, I'm like, I just wanna own that company. I'm tired of recommending people, you know, people to it. Let's actually purchase it so we can do a few other things with it. Um, and so all of those things, you know, and this is something that I've learned when business, um, you know, the aforementioned Jeff Walker actually shared this with me about four years ago. Um, all of these things now start with my book, you know, turn your passions into profits, which, which are, it's kind of the beginning, like, I don't even know where to start. This is the where to start. And something that Jeff helped me with, uh, about three and a half, four years ago, uh, I remember I was talking to him at a mastermind, and, uh, there were just four of us at the table.
Matt McWilliams (03:14):
Uh, we were in the mountains of Tennessee and just this amazing setting. And I just was like, you know, guys, what I can't figure out is I just don't really know if I wanna, I don't know if I, if how to take these beginners and like, how do, how do we, like, what's the thing that I'm working with them, but I'm all, see, I'm known for working with these high level entrepreneurs, so why do I wanna work with beginners? And he was like, well, what if that was just the starting point to get them to that high level of entrepreneurship? Mm-hmm. , what if that entry point was nothing but step one out of 10, you know, to get people to be a, a me, a Jeff Walker to be, uh, Tony Robbins, to be a Lewis House, you know, somebody that you could coach or, or actually run their stuff. And that was kind of a, a big shift for me mm-hmm. a few years ago to be able to see the value in, uh, in really working more with the beginners and helping them. And ultimately they end up scaling to that high level. So those are the, it's kind of crazy. Yeah. Will you kinda start off with one thing and then we had two mm-hmm. and three, and now we have four pieces. And who knows what the fifth will be, if there will be one
Angie Colee (04:13):
. Oh, I'm sure there will be. Just looking at that trajectory, and I find it interesting. Okay. So if I'm gonna circle back to the beginning a little bit, because you mentioned a guy that I may or may not know. So if you're new to the show, Jeff Walker is, uh, yeah. I was working with his team for a long time running his copywriting team before I left to start this show and start my own coaching practice. So Jeff and I go way back. Matt and Jeff, go way back. There's a nice little, uh, continuity there. And I love this concept of passions to profits. Like that's one thing that I talk about a lot. I know that there are people that disagree with the approach of starting your business based on something that you're passionate about, but I really strongly believe that if you start something just for the money, then you're much more likely to quit or judge yourself a little bit prematurely if and when the money runs down out. And I'm sure that you've been in a situation, I know I've been in a situation where the , the money does run out, or it gets really, really tight and it's tough to keep going, but that passion is there and it keeps you going.
Matt McWilliams (05:08):
Yeah. Well, I mean, both sides are true. And, and that's kind of the premise, the initial premise of the book is, I, I typically, when we work with entrepreneurs, whether they be beginners, five figures, six figures, seven figure doesn't matter, you know, uh, they could be full-time, part-time, it doesn't matter. We, we typically see about 95% of them fall into one of two extremes. And the first extreme is they are super passionate about what they do. They love what they're doing, but they're not making any money. Mm-hmm. . So they burn out because of the lack of income. Same with me. Like I've been, I've done both extremes. So mine was about 11, 12 years ago, I started a platform, uh, I was making a major impact on hundreds of people. Mm-hmm. , I couldn't go more than three or four days without getting an email, a blog comment, a a social media message saying, Matt, you changed my life, Matt.
Matt McWilliams (05:53):
I, I was thinking about killing myself and I didn't, Matt. Oh, wow. I, I'm a better parent because of this. I'm a better leader because of this, uh, you know, you changed my life. You changed my life. You changed my life. You know, my kids, well, I mean, like, all these things about what their kids were experiencing and, and they were experiencing and their health, their wellness, their mental health, you name it. I, I was literally doing that. I was changing lives. Like, you know, it wasn't millions of people, but it was hundreds of people and mm-hmm. . And I was like, one day I kinda have the thought, cause I'm like, well, it's been two years since I've been doing this. And I feel good. I get the warm fuzzies. I love what I'm doing. I wake up, I'm passionate. I was waking up at five 30 in the morning.
Matt McWilliams (06:25):
I was writing blogs, I was recording podcasts, and I was changing lives. And I realized that like, as my kids got into more advanced soccer, and as we had a mortgage, and as we had all these things that, like the kids' soccer, you know, club, um, that they don't take positive emails as a form of payment, uh, the hotels. Yeah. We spent thousands of dollars on hotels for, for our kids' soccer, I mean, lit, probably five, $6,000 a year on hotels. Uh, I could not like, you know, there's no like field on the thing where you enter your credit card information to pay $500 for the hotel, and they take a hundred dollars off if you have a positive Facebook comment. Mm-hmm. , you know, that doesn't hit the mortgage company like I tried, you know, I was like, Hey, look what all these nice people are saying.
Matt McWilliams (07:08):
And they said, yeah, you still owe us $1,814. Yeah. You know, like there was no discount for all these things. It takes money. So I burned out and I stopped doing that. You mentioned you've done a little bit over a hundred episodes. I stopped at episode 99. Who stops at episode 99? I did with that old podcast. I'm now on episode 530 something of the Affiliate Guy podcast because I'm passionate and it's making me money, you know? Mm-hmm. . So that's the one extreme. The flip side is the money's great. Um, yeah. All their needs are are, you know, are cared for. They have, you know, paid off house, a good car. They love what, you know, they love their life outside of work, but they hate their job. And I've been there, uh mm-hmm. , back when I was my early twenties, I was, I was teaching golf schools with my dad.
Matt McWilliams (07:53):
And, uh, that's how I got into online marketing, which is a whole separate story. But basically, I got to the point where I was doing, uh, my dad and I were doing $20,000 in a weekend, split two ways. Wow. I was 22, 20 into 23 years old. You can do the math mm-hmm. on what $10,000 in a weekend provides, even though that was only about 20 to 25 weekends a year at peak. Mm-hmm. , I was still making about half that the rest of the year. Long story short, I was making over $300,000 in my early twenties. Mm-hmm. . That's insane. Mm-hmm. like, you know, most of my friends were barely scraping by. Like most of my friends were lucky to make back then, especially this is the early two thousands, you know, if they were making $2,500 a month, they were stoked. I was making that in less than a day.
Matt McWilliams (08:36):
Mm-hmm. on, on some weekends working with my dad and these golf schools. Here's the problem, though. I hated teaching golf. Yeah. I swore to myself, my best friend and I made a pack when we were growing up that we were gonna play golf, and we were not gonna be one of those people who grew up playing golf and then gave up on their dreams later in life. And to, to us, you know, this is what we said, taught old ladies in purple sweaters, how to play golf , but nothing against old ladies in purple sweaters. That's not the point. Like, that's just was not our dream. Yeah. My dad was a golf instructor. He taught plenty of old ladies in purple sweaters and he was great at it. Mm-hmm. one of the best golf instructors I've ever, you know, been around and one day I'm teaching this golf school and I kid you not, uh, about a 75 year old lady and a lavender sweater shows up mm-hmm. . And I popped out my little flip phone with like the 0.2 megapixel phone from back in the day. And I took a picture of it, sideway sent it to my friend that I had made that packed with Hunter. And all I said was, kill me now.
Angie Colee (09:30):
Oh goodness.
Matt McWilliams (09:31):
And it wasn't because there was nothing, the sweetest old lady in the world, she was amazing. I would adopt her as my grandmother if I could mm-hmm. , but that wasn't for me. Mm-hmm. , I was not passionate about that. And so, you know, you know this, you know this Angie, like as a female, uh, you would immediately call your friend and say, oh honey, I am so sorry. What can I do for you? You'd probably send a casserole, but my friend Hunter, being a man, respond back, proned back with Haha, sucks to be you and .
Angie Colee (10:00):
I'm probably more in line with hunters.
Matt McWilliams (10:02):
Yeah. Well, thankfully, about a month later, my dad fired me because he knew, or as I like to say, he freaked me, you know? Mm-hmm. . And so I've been on both extremes. I know what it's like to be passionate, but not making a, you know, any money. And I know what it's like to be making great money, but not be passionate. Mm-hmm. . So the whole premise of the book, the whole premise of our business is like, okay, how do we marry those two? Yes. Cause if you are passionate, that's what wakes you up in the morning. Mm-hmm. . So I kinda like to look at it this way. The passion is what wakes you up. The money is what means I get to do it. Do it tomorrow.
Angie Colee (10:33):
Yes.
Matt McWilliams (10:34):
Next day. And the money means that I don't ever have to make the decision of, man, am I gonna work on my platform today or am I gonna make money today? Mm-hmm. . Cause the thing about it is, like, the weird thing is, you know, my kids, they like to do things like eat and put clothes and they grow. And so, I don't know if you knew this, but when you buy clothes for your kids, um, they don't last Yeah. , you know, and they, they, they also like to have like a room to sleep in and even to do some nice things like in a Nintendo and weird things like that, cuz you know, kids are stupid, right? Mm-hmm. . So they like all these things that I can't buy again with positive blog comments and feel good stuff.
Angie Colee (11:12):
Yep.
Matt McWilliams (11:13):
And so for me, how do I get the best of the both worlds? And that's what this ultimately is all about.
Angie Colee (11:18):
I really love that whole messaging. Cause I feel like a lot of the people that I work with, it's the same kind of thing. We deal with a lot of money blocks and money stories and this weird guilt that's common in early entrepreneurship around making money and charging money. And I think for, you know, like I grew up poor, so I know where a lot of those money blocks stem from. But I do remember the logic of, okay, so I was struggling when I first started my business and a couple of really kind people helped me out. So I'm gonna turn around and help people out as well, but without an eye on how to make it sustainable, how to make it profitable. I wound up doing the same thing and burning out, just giving away all of my best stuff. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but on the flip side, making a profit and making a living is also not a bad thing.
Angie Colee (12:05):
It's not something to feel guilty about, especially if you're coming at it from the right intention. Right? Yeah. There is an intention that's kind of, which is I just, some other people are walking around with my money in their pocket and I'm gonna go get it. Like that kind of, you know, I'm just about the money and I don't really care about anything else. I'm not talking about that. But if you're going into this with, I really wanna help people, and I think that there's a way for me to earn a good living while doing this and earning a good living is going to allow me to turn around and help even more people. Like I
Matt McWilliams (12:36):
Love that. Yeah. Oh, you mentioned the money blocks. I mean, you know, TJA veer refers to it as your, you know, your financial thermostat, right? Mm-hmm. , we all have ju just as people who are, you know, from Canada, you know, they're, they're, they're thermostat of, of when they wear shorts is probably anything above 50. . You know, my mine's gone down as I've lived up north for about 11, 12 years now, you know? Mm-hmm. , I'm, I'm from the, from the deep south. And so for me, my, you know, shorts was like 76 and above mm-hmm. . And then when I moved to Tennessee, it became like 72 and above a, and then, you know, by the time I got up here to Indiana, now it's like 62 and above, you know, Canada, like I said, it's probably 50, you know, above freezing. You wear shorts, we all have that thermostat.
Matt McWilliams (13:16):
And so I came from a very unique background. I grew up with a single mom. Mm-hmm. , you know, she worked two jobs just to keep us on the right side of the tracks. Uh, but I could see the tracks from my bedroom Muno. Like, we were just barely on the right side of the tracks. And, you know, she also, actually, she worked three jobs. Uh, most of you know, my, my life. But I moved to live with my dad when I was nine. And my dad came from, uh, very wealthy parents. I don't really under fully understand what my grandfather did, but it was something pre like, all the pictures I have of him are in like, insanely nice hotels or like speaking in front of Congress and stuff like that. You know, kind of some cool stuff. And so, furthermore, when I moved to live with my dad, about a year and a half after I moved to live with him, his career took off.
Matt McWilliams (13:59):
Hmm. And so now all of a sudden we were living in Nashville. He was running a golf course there. He was making, you know, this is in the early nineties, and he was making north of probably 1 25 a year. Um, which is a lot back then. Yes. And I'm hanging around with like, doctors and lawyers and country music stars. Like, it was nothing for me. Like, we'd just go out to, I don't know if you know who Vince Gill is, but mm-hmm. , like, I'm gonna go out to play and it's like, oh, there's Vince Gill. We're just gonna play golf with Vince Gill for nine holes. Like, and it was, it was nothing. You know? So I, the weird thing is like, because I got exposed to both, like, I, I've been, I was middle class for like 18 months in my entire life. Mm-hmm. ,
Matt McWilliams (14:33):
I, it's the weirdest thing, you know, of my, of my childhood. Like most people, you grow up, you grew up in the middle class, and you stay in the middle class, or you grow up wealthy, you stay wealthy, you grow up poor, you stay poor. Yes. Occasionally you might go from poor to middle class. Very few people just immediately go from single mom, one bedroom apartment to wealthy, other parent. Like, it's, it's a really weird dichotomy, you know? And the same thing was true, like at Christmas I had the two Christmases, like most every child of divorced parents has mm-hmm. . And the one, you know, you got the one, and then I got the one with my grandmother, my dad's mom, who, well, she had a lot of money, you know? Mm-hmm. . And it was like, over here you got a couple of these things.
Matt McWilliams (15:11):
And then over here I got like brand new golf clubs and , you know? Yeah. All these things. And it was a very, like, surreal, when I think back to it, I'm like, I bet you less than a half percent of people ever grew up with that type of background. So my financial thermostat is almost like bipolar in a sense. , you know, it's like, there are times where I'm like, I'm like, we hit a certain limit. I'm like, I'm not comfortable making this much money. And the other times I'm like, screw that. Let's just go make a million mm-hmm. , you know? And so it's, it's a really weird thing. And, and it, and I had to, quite frankly, through some counseling, actually had to get through that and realize what was happening to me psychologically. Mm-hmm. . Uh, and when I realized, I was like, oh my gosh, what a cool advantage.
Matt McWilliams (15:49):
Cuz I know the value of hard work. I didn't just grow up with most stuff handed to me mm-hmm. , but I did see what was possible. Yes. Like that was the most important thing is I knew that there was more to work in 80 hours a week just to barely get by. I knew there was more, like, to this day, you know, God bless that, that side of the family. But when you, you know, what's up to I'll just working mm-hmm. really, that's what you've been up to, is like, just working. Like w there's gotta be more than that. And I'm not, the thing is, it's not their fault. Like, I'm not criticizing them for that. But I like, if that's all I knew was the just working side, you know what, at 43 years old, if you asked me how I'm doing today, I'd probably be saying just working.
Matt McWilliams (16:29):
Yeah. Because that's really what I would be doing is just working. I wouldn't be on a mission. I wouldn't be passionate about what I'm doing. I wouldn't have hobbies. I wouldn't be having like kids soccer and all these things. I wouldn't be telling you about all the exciting things we have going on. I'd just say I'm just working because that's what I would know. Mm-hmm. . So I saw that side and I went, cuz I saw the other side, I went, now there's no way I want that other side. And I think that's what happens sometimes if you grow up in the, the extremes and never leave the extremes. Mm-hmm. , you, you either become very comfortable with that, or if you grow up like super wealthy and don't ever see the other side, like what you don't want, it's very easy to just be like, well, I'm always gonna be wealthy. Why do I need to work? And then you realize when you're 40, we don't have any money anymore. mm-hmm. . So it's kind of, I think the background contributes to how I see those things.
Angie Colee (17:17):
Oh, yeah. And I th there was something that I wrote down and circled a couple of times that I really wanna highlight for everyone listening. There's more to life than just getting by. I think that's something that really occurred to me in the last few years and why I decided to follow my path. I'm a really, really good copywriter. I'm really good. That's why I worked with the teams that I worked with. And also it got to a point where copywriting just wasn't lighting me up anymore. I wasn't into the challenge the way that I used to be. Mm-hmm. And when I sat back and thought about it, I was like, okay, what is lighting me up? What do I spend all my time doing, whether I get paid or not? And it was helping people that were in early and growth stage entrepreneurs. So like you were talking about the profitable pod profitable podcast and the unprofitable podcast.
Angie Colee (18:01):
Right. This one doesn't make any money yet. It's, it's on its way. Um, but I do it just for love of helping the new entrepreneurs and for the people that can't afford business coaching, this is my way of kind of giving back to them and saying, well, hey, here's resources and you get to learn from all of these really super smart business people. But I love that there's more to life than just getting by. And I caught myself in that trap when I first, I don't know if you know this about me. I was a digital nomad after I left Jeff's team, and I still am, but spend about four to six weeks in different places. And it was your story about Nashville that caught my attention and made me think about it because the Grand Ole Opry changed my life. Oh, wow. And not in the way that it changes most people's lives, even though I am a musician.
Angie Colee (18:42):
But what happened was I hit Nashville right as the covid vaccines were coming out in 2021. And so a lot of the places that I wanted to see while I was visiting were still under extreme restrictions. They had crowd capacities, they had appointments that you had to sign up for. And when I signed up to go tour the Grand Ole Opry, it was the first appointment I could get was like a random Wednesday at 10:00 AM several weeks out. And that was gonna be my only opportunity to go see this. And somehow, I don't know what it was that made me do this differently. Ordinarily I would've just gone there in the morning and then worked later to make up for the time that I was out. But for some reason in that moment, I decided, okay, well, whatever, these are my working hours, roughly like nine or 10:00 AM to five ish.
Angie Colee (19:29):
I'm just gonna make the work fit into what time I have left instead of working late. Mm-hmm. . And that really changed the game for me because I started using Parkinson's law. I've talked about this on the show a couple times Yeah. To my advantage and saying, all right, the, the work is gonna take the time I give it. And slowly over time I started realizing that what I was doing was fitting my business into my life instead of fitting my life into my business. Yep. Which I think is something that so many of us, like we get trapped in that I need to bring the money in and then before long the business is running us.
Matt McWilliams (20:00):
Yeah. And I think there's, you know, I'm not one of those people who's like says, okay, you're in your, you're in month one of your business, you're life is gonna look like mine. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, there's iterations, like the word iteration is probably one of my favorite words in the English dictionary because it means we don't have to get it right the first time. Yes. Um, we can evolve and like, you know, I, I'll give a great example. My team came to me the other day and one of the ladies said, okay, so what is our process for basically what is our process for assigning projects to virtual assistance mm-hmm. and, you know, new to the team. And I said, reality is we don't have a process mm-hmm. , so here's iteration number one, you know, and I said, here's kind of what we do now.
Matt McWilliams (20:40):
We're gonna use that for a couple of months and then we're gonna figure out what we need to improve instead of trying to make it perfect on, on the first go ground. So yeah, it's, it's really easy to hear somebody, you know, like Angie and go, um, why can't do that because I have a full-time job. Okay. Well you're right. You can't do that, so don't try to do that. You know? Yes. But we all do have a limited number of hours. Even, you know, for instance, me, I cannot function, uh, at an optimal level on less than seven and a half hours of sleep. That's same. Ideally, ideally, seven and a half is my target number, which means I set the alarm about seven hours and 50 minutes after I get into bed. Cuz usually I'll read about 15 minutes and pass out . And so for me, I, I, I need that.
Matt McWilliams (21:24):
So that leaves whatever the math is, 16 and a half hours, you know, and let's be honest, I'm gonna spend a certain amount of time doing, you know, shaving and just going to the bathroom and, you know mm-hmm. filling up my water cup and all those things. So like I, and then I've gotta, I've got kids' soccer and I've got, you gotta travel the kids' soccer and you got all these things that add up and I want to talk to my mom periodically and other people, and I want to have spent time with my wife. So we all have a limited amount of time. None of us can work realistically, consistently, more than even on the high, even on the high end. Let's go 15 hours, you know, when I was single mm-hmm. , I think back to when I was single, starting my second business, um, I probably did work 14 hours a day, seven days a week.
Matt McWilliams (22:06):
Mm-hmm. , I'm still only 14 hours, you know, I still had other demands, like I still had to call the apartment company when the air conditioning broke and took 15 minutes. Yeah. And then I still had to be there and all these, you know, when the plumbing broke and things like that. Like, we just think about like, we don't, we can't work all day mm-hmm. . So we have a limit. Whatever that limit is, you gotta fit it in. Um, and so don't feel bad if initially your work really does take you eight hours a day, you know, six days a week. That's what it, um, the idea is to paint that vision. And so I believe that early on, yeah. There are things that you will do that you are not part of your ideal life. Mm-hmm. , uh, the early days of my business, I did my own accounting, uh, after a year when we could afford an accountant.
Matt McWilliams (22:51):
I have never so much as even thought about accounting since then because it makes me wanna kill myself. Yeah. You know, I'm not a fan either. , and then we've worked our way through and it's like, I never thought there would be a day because copywriting is, is one of my jams too. Angie, I had to write an email yesterday mm-hmm. as we were pulling it off so quickly, we decided at like two 30, we decided to send this email, uh, by four o'clock that day. And there was no way I was asking our copywriter, you know, to pull off an email in 90 minutes, it's just not fair. Mm-hmm. and I wrote it and oh my gosh, it was so fun writing this email and it was so good. And I was like, oh, this is such a great email. We looked at the stats today, you know what it performed just as well as all the emails that my copywriter sends.
Matt McWilliams (23:36):
The open rate was like 0.1% lower. The click through rate was like half of, half of 1%. You know what? I'm sorry. 0.05% higher. So basically, oh my goodness. I did all the work and got the same result as he would've gotten mm-hmm. , but I had to do all the work, you know. But my point to that is, like, I love copywriting and even we've, you know, off, you know, off sourced that to mm-hmm. , one of our team members. You can't do that in year one. You can't, you definitely can't do that in month one. Early on you're doing it. Everything. You're chief cook and bottle washer, right. And so mm-hmm. , um, don't look at that and be intimidated. Is this my encouragement? Like, well, Angie did that and I can never do that. No, you can. It's probably just not gonna be, you know, in the first few months.
Angie Colee (24:19):
Yeah. I love that you brought that up because I, I, I am pro grind anti, or I'm pro hustles anti grind is the way that I think about it. Yeah. And there's a time to hustle. There's a time to work really, really hard and there's a time to take it easy and rest and recover. And that's really what I see business as less about balance. Because balance to me kind of feels like we're trying to stand on top of a podium and just stay there forever without moving. Life is movements like life is cyclical. And so we're forever gonna be swinging back and forth between super busy and super chill, I think. And so for me, the goal has always been to make those swings less wild to where I'm kind of more in the middle in a predictable groove and those, and that gives me more energy to react in those times when I need to hustle really hard.
Angie Colee (25:11):
Yeah. And I love that you also brought up that like, you're not going in month one, you're not starting with a team. You're not starting with the systems and processes that Matt and I have built up. Um, I remember when I first started the podcast being so overwhelmed by every step, because in my mind I had compartmentalized everything to, it's real simple. I mean, all you gotta do is record, edit, write the copy and send the email. Right. But there's a dozen little tiny steps that happened under each of those high level categories mm-hmm. . And I think about episode 20, I started, I found myself probably a couple hours before it was supposed to go live doing it all myself, going, why am I resisting writing the episode copy? I loved this episode. I don't have a problem with writing. Why am I sitting here staring at a cursor like I'm, I haven't done this 20 million times.
Angie Colee (26:00):
And I realized that I had all of this unacknowledged work, all of these unacknowledged processes that I was doing, and I hadn't given myself enough time to do it. And that was shutting me down. So I went to my VA at the time and said, this is what's happening. And recorded her a video. And she actually turned that into a process and told me, these steps right here are where you could outsource that to someone else. And these steps right here are the ones that you need to do. And that was where we started with that first iteration, that first version of a podcast process that eventually got me to where I am now, which is where I just show up and record and then everything else just happens. That's my happy place. But that was just a series of steps over time. We created that version one of the process and I started outsourcing the copy to someone.
Angie Colee (26:43):
And I had the, I had an editor come in and then we would look at it a couple months later. Exactly like you talked about with your team. How is this working? Are there still bottlenecks? Are there things where, are there places where the ball is getting dropped that we need to tighten up or we need to add in some checks and balances? And so it was a process, it was a series of iterations over time that allowed us to get here. And that's what pretty much everybody's going to experience. So don't worry about getting it perfect. Just get it out there.
Matt McWilliams (27:09):
Yeah. I mean, I think back, speaking of podcast, like the first, I dunno, hundred episodes I did. Mm-hmm. , I came up with the title and when it was gonna release and all that, I came, I wrote the intro. The, the only part of my podcast that I, uh, I script is the, the teaser, the first 20 to 30 seconds before the intro music. So I do script that so that it's spot on. The rest of it is bullet points. But I wrote that, I wrote those, you know, the outline. Um, I loaded it into Lipson. Mm-hmm. , I uploaded the show notes, I published that, I published the WordPress Post. Yep. Wrote the copy. I sent the email designed the social media graphics. Yes. Uh, what else was I upload? I mean, everything there is today, you know, and again, iterations. But today, literally what I do is come up with what the title is and when it's gonna go live and I record it.
Angie Colee (28:06):
Yes.
Matt McWilliams (28:06):
I, I still script the beginning and I record it mm-hmm. , and then I upload it to Dropbox. Everything else happens without me even knowing about it. Mm-hmm. , you know, and I assume that it all gets done cuz I've never heard that it hasn't. Yeah. You know, but like all the other stuff, and it started with the, the very first thing I did was I trained my team on how to set it up in Lipson so that I just had to record the file mm-hmm. . Um, and then, but I still edited it. Mm-hmm. I still edited it and I still added it to Lipson. I just told them how to add all the other stuff to, to Lipson and how to set up the WordPress post. And then I hired a graphic designer to do the image, and then I hired a podcast editing company. You know, so today all I gotta do is talk, you know, I gotta do the thing that I can do best.
Matt McWilliams (28:50):
And, and eventually we'll even get it to the point where I don't have to record every episode. We'll have other team members and, you know, um, you know, I mean even like the, uh, even some of the, the stuff in the, um, you know, in the podcast, like, uh, yeah. If I do an interview with somebody, um, I interview them, we talk, I introduce them, et cetera. But like mm-hmm. , uh, I've got an episode coming up with, uh, questions. You know, I'm just answering questions and, uh, I didn't have to do anything for that. My team got all the questions. They put the questions in the doc and I just talk into a microphone and answer 'em, you know mm-hmm. , like, that's pretty cool when you can get to the point where my involvement is 32 minutes when it used to be two and a half to three hours. Like, that's what you're looking for. But again, it was iterative, you know, hiring the graphic designer that took off 10 minutes, you know mm-hmm. , it was, was only 10 minutes that it took off, but it was like, okay, we knocked off 10 minutes. 10 minutes to do something else. Higher level.
Angie Colee (29:46):
Exactly. And I just wanna reiterate for everybody listening here, that it was a lot of steps and that each of us did all of the steps at the beginning. We did all that work to get those episodes out there, every last one to get those first iterations. So like, if you're, if you're thinking, Angie, Matt, y'all are full of it, uh, there's no way I could ever work like that. Remember, it's just going to be a series of steps to get you to where you are not doing everything. And what I really loved about it was I thought it tied so nicely into everything that you were talking about with your passion. Is my passion creating the graphics for the show? No. Is my passion editing the waveforms and making it sound its absolute best. No, I do care about it sounding great. Hence the awesome podcast set up. But I got an editor that makes it sound great. So I don't have to worry about going in doing all the, I don't even know the technical terms. We're not gonna go down that rabbit hole. None
Matt McWilliams (30:36):
Of that stuff works. Yeah. .
Angie Colee (30:38):
But like, my passion is having a great conversation. It's learning and being able to share these aha moments from really smart people who have gone out there and messed up and done awesome things and learned awesome things, and they wanna share it here. That's my happy spot. And everything else is just like, woohoo. Cool. That's the, that's the cherry on top.
Matt McWilliams (30:58):
Nice.
Angie Colee (30:59):
I love it. So tell us more about this book, passion to Profits, because I know that that's probably not where you started on day one with your business. How did that idea come about and what was that like writing that book?
Matt McWilliams (31:11):
It was an eight year process. Um, I was in that 88% of people for about seven years, six years. I said, uh, I wanna write a book and never did mm-hmm. , you know, and, uh, this is kind of a lesson for, for authors, like the content in the book was speaking of iterative, you know, the content in the book was iterative. You know, we had mm-hmm. originally, there were 12 steps that we developed, and then I realized 12 steps and it's too close to aa. And I didn't, you know, that was just . Uh, I, I love aa for people who needed. It just wasn't something I had to have certain connotation, and it was a little bit lengthy. So we combined a couple of steps, uh, into each other, and now we have 10, you know, steps in the passion to profit path, uh, starting with clarify who you help, all the way down to commit to monetize and, and create consistent content.
Matt McWilliams (31:54):
But it was a six year process, you know? Yeah. To develop that content. And even, like, I'll give you an example. There's a story in the book where I, I'm talking about lead magnets and, um, you know, how to create a lead magnet. And I talk about, you know, I, I share like the rules that we have as a company, like, you know, no lead magnets should take more than three hours, um, to create. Because if you take more than that, you're just making it way too complicated. And what do you do with the lead magnet? Number one, you define the number one problem somebody has, and number two, you solve it. That's what it is. Mm-hmm. . And I remember, um, you know, I was delivering this in, uh, I was sharing this in a program we have called List Launch Challenge. And I was sharing about how to make a lead magnet.
Matt McWilliams (32:30):
And just out of nowhere, it was like the fifth time we'd done it out of nowhere, I was like, I started talking about my dad. And I'm like, I remember halfway through going, why am I even talking about my dad? This, this is really weird. My dad never owned a computer, never got on the internet, never owned a smartphone, passed away in 2005. Like never that I know of, never once got on the internet a day in his life. Mm-hmm. , how could he possibly have had a lead magnet? Well, growing up, my dad, as I mentioned earlier, was a golf instructor. And I watched my dad every day on the practice tee would walk up and down the practice tee while people were hitting golf balls. And he would look for somebody in pain. I don't mean physical pain, like, ow my back hurts. But they're, they'd hit a shot and they'd slam their club on the ground.
Matt McWilliams (33:08):
They'd hit another shot and they'd mutter the stupid game, I suck at this, you know, I'm never gonna be any good. And he'd say, Hey, can I help you? Yeah. Like, well, I'm the local golf professional, you know, that's establishing authority, you know? Mm-hmm. , and, uh, you mind if I watch you hit a few balls and they'd hit a few balls, and then my dad would make one suggestion. He would identify one problem they had. It's usually something that stood out really bad. I'm just gonna make up an example. They are slicing the ball 50 yards, right at their target. Mm-hmm. . And he would change one thing, not two things, not three things, not four things. He was not trying to rehaul their entire golf swing and help them break 80 in over the course of six months. That was not what he was trying to do.
Matt McWilliams (33:42):
He was helping them with one thing, and they'd hit a couple of shots and they were better than the ones they'd hit in months. And they return to him and go, oh my gosh, this one of the best shots I hit in months. How do I sign up for more lessons with you? And he'd sell him a thousand dollars golf instruction package. Now, that story that I just told with all the details that my dad never got on the internet, never owned a smartphone, never got on a computer. The detail about the little muttering and all that, that was iterative. I told that story so many times that every time I would remember another little detail mm-hmm. , and, you know, so long, I'm gonna be like, it was a bright sunny day and the stars were shining. Like, that's different, you know, and so like all these things, he was wearing a blue shirt and khaki pants, you know, I mean, like, I don't add those details, but my point is that that was an iterative process.
Matt McWilliams (34:24):
Mm-hmm. . So I developed these stories over the course of, you know, six years. And I developed the process and I got the, the case studies and all that over the course of six years. Uh, then I wrote the book mm-hmm. , you know, and that was in and of itself from, from beginning of the manuscript to launch day was two years, uh, two years, 23 days, you know. Oh, wow. Um, but, but we did it, you know, and actually, I just got a text, uh, let me pull this up. I just got a text today. This was kinda cool. Um, let's see if I can find it here. Lady named Tabatha texted us in, um, and said, uh, uh, Tabatha hours, said, hello, just got your book, turn Your Passions Into Profits. Yesterday, I read the first chapter. I created my avatar. So that's step one, is we're gonna create that ideal customer avatar, and we go really deep into that, you know, how to create that ica, uh, and then became unsure whether I could help them or not.
Matt McWilliams (35:15):
Something that we see a lot of people do said, I wasn't sure whether I was qualified. We see that a lot. Yes. Step two is called Commit to Leading. And I'm gonna share a little bit about what I teach in there, but this is what she wrote. I wasn't sure whether I was qualified and then all caps, but I read chapter two, not gonna lie, I cried. It gives me hope. It really does. I will, will be back at the end of the book to tell you how this goes. Thanks for writing it and giving your, giving your number out as well. I'm very excited to see where this takes me. Um, the, the point there is yes, you know, positive endorsement of the book from a random stranger, but like mm-hmm. , you know, step two, uh, with something that we iterated over years, you know this, it's called Commit to Leading.
Matt McWilliams (35:59):
Yes. And I share about it. Like, there's just all these misconceptions about leadership. Like no, leadership is not easy. Leadership can be scary. Leadership, you might feel inadequate, it can be hard. Mm-hmm. is to feel overwhelming. But I share this, you know, this idea in this book, and again, this whole story then about to tears again, was iterative over the course of months that imagine you're on a hike. And every time I share about this, I'm, I'm particularly, I'm picturing a particular hike and it's in the mountains of east Tennessee mm-hmm. . And, uh, you go up like two miles and it levels off for like two miles, goes down two miles. And this leveled off part, when you're up there 3000 feet above, you know, the, you're up, they call it a mountain, but it's really just a really tall hill. If you, if you're from Colorado, it's a really tall hill , and, uh, somebody's 2,500 or 3000 feet up.
Matt McWilliams (36:48):
And when you're up there, like, there are multiple places where you take one wrong step and you will die. Like, you are not going to, you're gonna fall over a thousand feet. There's no way you're surviving, you know, this is mm-hmm. , it's just not possible. Like, it's just steep rock face death right. Now, as long as you pay attention, you're totally fine. Mm-hmm. . But imagine you're on this hike and you're on this hike with this super fit friend, the kind of friend who is like, he's just, he's been in shape for as long as you've known him. You know, he, he never gains, like even after Thanksgiving, he doesn't put on like even a quarter of a pound , uh, he jogs and place at stop lights, you know, he is that kind of friend, right. Wears bike shorts, do a cookout, smells like suit mix all the time.
Matt McWilliams (37:26):
And he's just always, you don't have to ask him if he does CrossFit, cuz he is, he tells you, you know, every week, three times , um, a day . So that's this friend, right. And he is two miles up ahead of you. Now you're on this hike, he's two miles up ahead and he's yelling back at you, Hey, hurry up. Mm-hmm. and watch out for the watch out for the what, too late. What am I watching out for? What am I supposed to be? Watch out. That's not where we lead from. And the problem is we think we have to be two miles ahead of our audience mm-hmm. that we have to be mm-hmm. such an expert and have it all figured out and have been in the industry for 30 years, that we have to be the Jeff Walker of online marketing, or we have to be the Tony Robbins of personal development, or we have to be Steve Jobs of creating a business, or we have to be the Martha Stewart of cooking and household care and all that stuff.
Matt McWilliams (38:13):
We have to have it all figured out when the reality is that same friend, if he just came in, who's one step ahead of us reached back his hand and grabbed it and said, Hey, watch out. This next step is dangerous. Mm-hmm. , that's where we need to lead from. And the cool thing is, he can lead from there no better than somebody who really is only one step ahead. Yeah. And so this concept of only being one step ahead of your audience has really been one that has just resonated with people like it did for Tabitha. Um, and that's just a concept like that was why I, you know, it's step two of the book. Like, until you can get this through your head that you are a leader, you're a leader by choice, not because you were born, born leader because you're some sort of an expert that you have the experience necessary to be a leader. Um, nothing else matters. Like all the tactics and strategies in the world that I share in the rest of the book are completely irrelevant.
Angie Colee (39:01):
Yep. You have to be the one to put yourself out there. And I can't remember where I first heard it, but it was this idea of confidence doesn't come first. Commitment encouraged you. Mm-hmm. , it's you deciding that, okay, I don't know what's coming and there's no way to know what's coming and I'm going to figure it out. I trust myself to figure it out. I've got people around me that will help me figure it out. Let's go. Yeah. And then I, I mean, it ties perfectly into the, the whole reason that I started this podcast was, um, the way that I got known as a copywriter and wound up being on Jeff's team was that I joined this community, but I joined this community of copywriters, direct response marketers. And I just watched from the sidelines and I was just, I was judging myself against these people and going, oh, look at that smart person saying stuff over there.
Angie Colee (39:47):
Look at that smart per, I can't possibly compete. First of all, it wasn't a competition. What Angie brings to the table is different from what all of them brought to the table, but it would take me years to learn that. And so, thankfully at the time, the community was small enough to where the leader and I had like a new member call and he said, well, I noticed that you're not saying anything. What's, what's going on? What can I, what can I do to make it more comfortable for you to post and, and to contribute? Uh, and I just deflected. I was like, well, they, I, I had six years of experience at that point in time, but I still thought that I wasn't good enough to post and that I couldn't help anybody. That's how messed up my thinking was. And you know, if, if you are out there feeling this, I'm not saying that your thinking is messed up.
Angie Colee (40:27):
I'm thinking, I'm saying it's skewed. You can absolutely help somebody exactly where you're at knowing exactly what you know. And so he said basically the same thing to me. I feel like you're holding yourself back. I feel like you're waiting for permission to be able to help somebody. And you don't actually need permission. You can help somebody here and now knowing exactly what you know, but in case you're waiting for permission, I hereby anoint you expert enough. And that's where the whole concept of permission to Kick Ass Kim comes from very much in line with what you're saying about just have that commitment of I wanna help people with this thing and I'm gonna figure it out, and I can be right there with them holding their hand every step of the way instead of two miles
Matt McWilliams (41:05):
. Yeah. I mean, it's perfectly understandable. Like I said, it's hard, it's not easy, but the, the, the problem with like, okay, leadership going, what's scary? It's hard. And all those things, they're focused on you. Mm-hmm. , they're not focused on your avatar. Yep. And, and yeah, it can be hard, it can be overwhelming. Like any, anything can be harder, overwhelming, you know, I mean, marriage is hard. You know, it can be overwhelming. The thought of marrying somebody or, or parenting, you know, raising a child. It's not easy. You know, these are all, these are all hard, but the parenting's not about me. Mm-hmm. , it's about my kids. And, and so like, you know, I write about in the book, I say just, you know, remember, like your followers need you to lead them. Yeah. So when you see this and you go, okay, there is somebody out there right now who needs you to be their leader.
Matt McWilliams (41:48):
In fact, there are potentially millions of people out there who they're waiting for you to guide them. They're waiting for you to reach out and grab their hand Yep. And show them where to go. And to that point about what you said about, you know, the comparisons, you know mm-hmm. this big part of the book. I've heard from so many people, they love this. There's two quotes in the book that I share that really, um, these are quotes I've lived by for about the last 10 years. Uh, the first is from a guy named John ak, and he says, never compare your beginning to someone else's middle. Yep. Uh, the second one was from Stephen Furtick who says, the reason we struggle with insecurity is because we compare our behind the scenes to everyone else's highlight reel. Mm-hmm. , you know, and, and, and we see that in something like parenting.
Matt McWilliams (42:28):
Right. We go, well, you know, they're just posting all these great pictures of their kid, look at their kids winning trophies and minds, you know, sticking stuff up his nose, , hey, newsflash, their kids stick stuff up his nose too. Yep. I think they're posting that on social media though. Oh, their kid's just so look at him. He got straight A's. And my kids, you know, saying he hates me and throwing attention. You know what, uh, that parent's probably been told they're hated at least a hundred times, you know? Mm-hmm. , every kid acts like that, just nobody posted on their highlight reel. Yep. But we see that as something like parenting or, or whatever. And you know, we see that. But the same is true in business. Like it's, it's really easy for me to talk about, come on a show and say, yeah, you know, look at this great process we have for our podcast now, and look at me.
Matt McWilliams (43:13):
I'm only doing things I love to do. Um, yeah, it wasn't always that way. Mm-hmm. , you know, it was, it was hell Yeah. For a while. I, I did not enjoy it. Um, I, I, I remember, I mean, I remember very vividly, like nowadays, if I want a video uploaded to YouTube, what I do is I stand in front of a camera and I record mm-hmm. . That's the extent of my involvement in that. Literally, that is the extent I might have a meeting to discuss bullet points for the video with the, with our ops manager maybe if I need to. But most of the time that's what I do, is I stand in front of a camera and I talk, you know? Mm-hmm. , it used to be, I remember vividly four o'clock in the morning on Sunday. All right. This video is due Monday morning.
Matt McWilliams (43:59):
It goes live Monday morning, big launch. I had worked on this video for weeks. Hmm. Five hours a day, you know, three, four days a week. I mean, I, I put in 50 to 60 hours into this video. It was one of our pre-launch videos. It was the Cornerstone vi, it was our sales video. Sorry, this is it. Like the other three were done. This is the fourth video. I, I mean, I had, you know, hundreds of B-roll clips. I had me, I had all the graphics, like I did everything in this vi this video is gonna look better than anything. Jeff Walker, Stu McLaren, Michael Hyatt, Tony Robbins have put out in years. And I did it all myself. And as I exported the video, I get an error message saying these clips are invalid formats or something like that. And so I closed down.
Matt McWilliams (44:45):
I was using iMovie. Even you don't use iMovie to make good videos, but that's all I knew how to use. I close iMovie and I reopen it and all the files are missing. Oh my goodness. And I remember right, it was right here, cuz I'm not in my studio today because my studio got destroyed by a flood, which is what sometimes happens. Oh goodness. And I remember sitting right here about two feet behind where I am right now, Angie and I sat there and I just cried. Mm. Four o'clock in the morning, I'm sleep deprived. I gotta get up at seven 30 and I cried and I just cursed everything in everyone cuz I hated my life. Mm-hmm. . And then, now here's the positive part. , thankfully about five hours later as we were driving down the road, the thought hit me, it still says the name of the files.
Matt McWilliams (45:36):
So if I download the files from the original sites with the same, and I can look those up by the name of the file, I should be able to recoup all 'em. And I was able to, Hmm. But it still took me about five hours of recouping it all. Like here I was ready to export this video four o'clock in the morning and I'm done with it and all, I'm gone. And, but I was able to figure it out, thankfully. Mm-hmm. , but that feeling as an entrepreneur of sitting there on the floor just sobbing uncontrollably. Mm-hmm. , here's a news flash. I don't post that on social media. Yeah. But we all been there. You can't get that site to look like you want to. And guess what? You don't have a web developer like today. I would, I don't try to get a site to look like I wanted to.
Matt McWilliams (46:13):
I just ask our team to do it. Mm-hmm. . But years ago, you know what I did? I sat here and cussed and banged my head against the table and talked about how stupid ClickFunnels is or how stupid word press is or how stupid this other thing is. And I can't believe that it can't connect. And why does Stripe not work? And what, who, who runs this company? A bunch of morons. And why don't better, you know, why is their tech support not better? I've been there Yeah. Today, but I've been there. And, and so don't compare your behind the scenes to everyone else's highlight reelio and so mm-hmm. , the, the old saying, when the teacher is willing, or when the student is willing, the teacher will appear. Yeah. And you remember this, like, this isn't about you, but right now there are thousands, potentially millions of people waiting for you to appear.
Matt McWilliams (47:00):
They are waiting and they're willing and waiting for you to lead them. The only question is, are you gonna be their leader? Yeah. Yes. That perspective when it's not about you, it wasn't about me losing the videos because you know what, if I hadn't have had those, you know what I would've done? I would've just gone live. Mm-hmm. . Cause it wasn't about me. It was about them. I would've figured out I was devastated at the time probably cause I was sleep deprived, but I would've figured something else. It's not about me, it's about them. Um mm-hmm. when, when something, when the, the tech doesn't work, I'll figure out a way to te you know, to collect their money when, when the page doesn't work. Like I said, I'll, uh, you know what? I can't, I can't write a sales page because the tech isn't working.
Matt McWilliams (47:39):
Then I'll just do a sales letter. Uh, I can't do a sales letter, then I'll do a sales video. I can't do a sales video, then I'll do a sales live. I can't do a sales live. Then I'll send it all in an e I'll, I'll create a Flipp in Google Drive pdf. Yep. that has everything in it. It's one of the highest converting things I ever did. You know why? Because our, our software wasn't working and I had to get out and I did a stupid PDF and Google Drive download is pdf d uploaded the site, sent it out, ended up being one of the highest converting things we ever did. They had to, I kid you not, they had to email me and say they wanted to buy. Hmm. We had to go into Stripe and create an invoice for them and send it to them. And I still sold more. And this was about two years ago selling a, a coaching offer. I still sold more of that than when we had a beautiful fully functional sales page with an order form and I didn't have to do anything. You know what, when, when you care more about them than you do about your own feelings and how good something looks, uh, you make it work.
Angie Colee (48:39):
That is the perfect note to end it on too, is, uh, when all of the feelings get really heavy, usually somewhere it's shifted to me. It's me centric, it's me focused and how much I'm suffering, how much this sucks and it's not what I want. Me, me, me. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. We do need to focus on us because if we're not putting on our own oxygen masks Right. We can't help somebody else. Yeah. But you know, to me the optimal way to get out of that me centric thing is exactly what you so brilliantly said. Focus on them, make it about the mission, focus on what you're doing in the world. And that somehow alleviates the pressure to like get everything right, get everything perfect. It frees up the opportunity to find creative solutions like you did with the pdf, which is freaking awesome. And it doesn't have to be perfect to be helpful, to be useful to be right for your people. Huh. So good. So this has been a fantastic conversation. I could talk all day, but I'm gonna let you tell us more about your book, more about your services and where we can find out how to work with you.
Matt McWilliams (49:37):
Yeah. Uh, you can get the book anywhere if they sell books, you know, Amazon, target, Barnes and Noble. Uh, it's in stores most Barnes and Nobles nationwide. So you can run to a store and grab a copy. But the best place to get it is passions into profits book.com/ptk. Yes. Um, so ps into profits book.com/ptk. Uh, when you go there, there's an opportunity you've got over, we got over $500 in uh, special bonuses for your listeners Angie. So, uh, that's the best place to get it, uh, go there, it's got links to be able to get it all the major retailers and then you'll redeem that to get those, uh, or redeem that your, uh, uh, your order for, um, for all those bonuses. And then if you just wanna check out stuff, uh, go to matt macwas.com. Uh, we've got tons of ways to serve you there.
Matt McWilliams (50:22):
Um, if you click on the about page or the start here page, those two pages will point you, you in the right direction. Uh, kind of just, you know, wherever you're at, whatever level you're at, I mentioned different levels. Um, so depending upon your level, you come to me and like, Hey Matt, I need to, I got zero subscribers and don't even have a website. Well, we're gonna start you at a different place than if you come to me and say, Matt, we're doing, you know, $8 million a year and we need you to run our affiliate program. are are very different levels where we can serve you. So all that's in matt macwas.com. Then just click on the start here button up at the top.
Angie Colee (50:53):
Awesome. We're gonna make sure that they have clickable links in all of the show notes and everything. Thank you so much. You've been a wonderful guest. Appreciate you and I hope you have a fantastic day.
Matt McWilliams (51:02):
Thanks for having me, Angie.
Angie Colee (51:06):
That's all for now. If you wanna keep that Kick Ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high octane dose of you can do it. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the permission to Kick Ass podcast on Apple Podcast Spotify and wherever you stream your podcast. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go Kick Ass some mask.