Angie Colee (00:02):
Welcome to permission to kick a podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey everyone. And welcome to another awesome episode of permission to kick with me today is my friend and somebody
Angie Colee (00:26):
That I have worked with for a couple of years. Now, her name is Ashlee Berghoff and she has an agency called A squared. Uh, and I, I don't know how else to describe this other than she figures out how to do all of the stuff that is just jumbling for attention in my head. And she has been the most tremendous lifesaver. So everyone welcome to Ashlee.
Ashlee Berghoff (00:52):
Thank you so much for having me here. Angie, I'm so excited for this conversation.
Angie Colee (00:57):
I remember the day that I met you, it was in a random Facebook group for women entrepreneurs. And I, I had finally gotten to the point in my business where I realized I can't do all this by myself. I need some help, but I had no idea where to start. Cause I was wearing all the hats I was being the accountant. I was being the, the account executive with all my clients. I was out there looking for new clients, like all of this stuff that I have no business doing because I really suck at it. So I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs can identify with that. Like you start, especially creative folks, you start a business thinking, Oh, I'll get to write all day. And then you realize that like, no I'm inputting expenses and I'm going to networking meetings. And I have spend maybe 25% of my time writing.
Angie Colee (01:48):
So all of that was a long-winded way to say I went to this group and I was just like, I need help. And I want to work with someone that can tell me, do this. Don't do that. I need you to like ride my until I do things that are actually serving my business. Please help me. And you were one of the people that reached out, what, what spoke to you about that post? Like why did you decide this woman that clearly has none of her shit together is someone that needs my help.
Ashlee Berghoff (02:21):
So yeah, that kind of backstory about my half of that conversation, I had just started the business six months before that. And I was coming out of corporate where I was a project manager and an operations person. And I never saw myself as an entrepreneur because I'm very tactical and I like to organize things. And I like to make things, you know, very clear and simple and didn't know how that was going to work with me, trying to be in a visionary role as an entrepreneur, until I realized that maybe who are out there being the visionaries needed someone like me. And so that was kind of the impetus for starting the business in the first place. And I from day one, loved working with people who were in this place of, I know I need help, but I have no idea how I'm supposed to do this.
Ashlee Berghoff (03:20):
Cause I'm supposed to, to make this happen. Um, and wanted to work with visionaries and creatives and people who have great ideas and just needed help figuring out how the heck to make them happen. And so when you were posting all of that, I'm sure you felt like, Oh my gosh, no, one's going to want to do that. But that was the exact dream thing for me. I was so nervous on our first call because I wanted to work with you so badly. And I wasn't sure if you were going to say yes or not. Um, so yeah, I mean, for me, that was the dream scenario where I could really be helpful and, and bring what I was really good at to bear to help you with the, the big vision that you had for yourself.
Angie Colee (04:07):
Oh goodness. That's so funny. It's it's what, several years later after we started working, Oh, is it three years? It's been a while.
Ashlee Berghoff (04:15):
I think it was April 2017, 2018, April 2018
Angie Colee (04:19):
So it's been a while. I never knew that you were nervous interviewing with me. That's so funny.
Ashlee Berghoff (04:25):
I was like, on a trip Like I remember exactly where I was. Cause I was all prepared and sitting on the couch and like trying to think about what I was going to say. It was a big deal.
Angie Colee (04:36):
And it's so funny how we get in our heads like that though. Cause I am, I'm such a true creative. I know that you know this about me by now, but like ideas are where I thrive. I just want to be thinking of cool all day. And then when it comes to like on Colby, I am super high. Fact-finder super high Quickstart, but you know, for everybody that is listening, if you don't have, if you aren't aware of what the Kolbe test is, it's kind of a personality test, but for how you work as a person and it measures your skills in a couple of different ways, whether you're a fact finder. So somebody that does a lot of research, whether you're an implementer, somebody that gets done, whether you're a follow-through person who takes projects from start to finish, or whether you are a quick start, somebody that just likes to get things done. So it turns out I'm insanely high on finder and Quickstart. I like to do research, make a call and start a new project. I am terrible at implementing and follow through. And when I got those test results back, I was like, Oh, this tells me so much. It's so clear now I understand. And yeah, it was funny,
Ashlee Berghoff (05:51):
Uh, speaking of, Jen who's on my team and going through that because both of us are very close to one another. And the flip of what you were saying, right? So low on the quick-start a little bit lower in the fact-finder, but very high on implementing follow through. So it becomes a great, a great combination.
Angie Colee (06:12):
Um, and it was just funny to me that it never occurred to me that as much as I geek out about ideas and finding the perfect word combination, that's going to clearly express this idea. There are people that hate that and would rather be in like spreadsheets and checklists, the things that I hate, it just never occurred to me.
Ashlee Berghoff (06:35):
Yeah. Yeah. That's where entrepreneurship can be really fun. Cause you realize, well, the things that came really easily to me are the things that keep other people up at night. And so we should work together.
Angie Colee (06:47):
Yeah. It took a long time for me to realize it because writing is something that has always come fairly naturally to me. And I had to develop it as a skill, you know, the discipline to actually put my butt in a chair and produce things. But I think somebody had to tell me once that like, wow, I just, the way you can string words together, I could never do that before I realized like, Oh, I got something here. Something that other people don't necessarily have. And I kind of took that for granted. Um, yeah, I think it was right around that time that I started realizing I I'm good at the writing. I love doing the writing and I'm so stressed out because I can't spend all my time doing the writing. I've got all these other things that are taking up space in my brain.
Angie Colee (07:33):
I've got to do lists that I've made just to get all this stuff out of my head that are like miles long. And I refuse to look at these lists because they're so long and so overwhelming. And I just, I had no concept of how to even start tackling this stuff. Like I was so overwhelmed. I couldn't even get to a point where I could figure out if I just set a timer for 30 minutes, I could probably knock out these things. And these are, are these things over here are different projects I can save for later. Like I just avoided it all. And that was when I got desperate and reached out for help. And I met you. So I, I don't know if you have a similar story and realizing that like, maybe you didn't want to write the advertisements or think of creative campaigns, but you could help people like me. Did you know you wanted to help creative people? Or was it just entrepreneurs or how did that come about?
Ashlee Berghoff (08:28):
Yeah. I had no idea what the online small business space was like at all. So I came in with a very generic, Oh, you know, I can help entrepreneurs or I can help small business owners who are visionaries and need help building their businesses. It kind of was one of those serendipitous things where I ended up in that Facebook group. I think I found the, the leader of that group, Ash, Ambirge on Google, like searching something around, hating my job or something in my life. I found her ended up in that group and that's how you and I met. And so it really was through that group when people would raise their hands and say, Hey, I need this, that, you know, my first client was a brand strategist and web designer working online. Um, then I think you were maybe client number three, you know? And so I was discovering who was in the online space, realizing that these were the kinds of people I just loved working with. Um, and that I had kind of this, a special affinity for and ability to help creative entrepreneurs, people who started their business as freelancers, because they wanted to create something they wanted to write. They wanted to build websites. They wanted to create brands, whatever it was. Um, and so they had all of those ideas and just needed help managing everything that surrounded that. So they could actually have a business.
Angie Colee (09:59):
Yeah. I remember being scared because you and I actually, you and I worked together for what was it like six months before we actually met? So we had a purely online relationship for quite a while. And so we met in person at a conference. Um, and then I just didn't know how to let go of things. I had myself so convinced that I could, I was the only one that knew how to do all these things. And so unwilling to trust that somebody else knew how to do this better than me. So, I mean, I guess it's a bit of ego there, but then it's a bit of maybe lack of knowledge. What would you say that is the, the, the worry about not being able to let go?
Ashlee Berghoff (10:48):
Yeah, I have experienced the exact same thing and in my experience, I think what it was, I think you're right. There's that, that ego piece to it. But there's also the sense that when you're wearing every single hat in your business and you've built it from literally nothing, it's your baby. You're so deep on every aspect of, of what's going on in the business. And it's part of you. I remember, you know, as I started trying to build a team, it didn't just feel like, Oh, here's a part of the business to, to manage or here's a client to take care of. It felt like handing over my child to somebody right. And trying to disentangle myself from that thing. And so there's the trust issue? There's the feeling like, okay, I have all this deep knowledge in my brain, all of this as a product of me, how am I going to possibly bring someone else in who could do this in the same way that I could? How can I download that? And can I release some of it as well to recognize that, you know, my business, isn't me, I'm the steward of my business, but it's not me. And it's actually hurting my business when it can only go as far as I can go. Um, but it's, it's a hard process to disentangle when you've built something yourself like that.
Angie Colee (12:19):
Oh yeah, I totally get it. And I think that's a common trap that entrepreneurs fall into it's once they realize that, you know, especially as creative types, that, that I don't get to spend my day writing or taking photos, there's all these other business aspects that have to happen. I've done the hard work. I've figured out how to make these things happen. Now I feel like I have to do them all because nobody else is going to care about my business. Quite like I do it's so, and then like, you're so overwhelmed when you're caught up in that cycle of I have to do all the things cause nobody else will care about it. As much as I do that, you don't remember what it was like being an employee where there was somebody that whose entire job was to hire people and train them. There's somebody whose entire job was to manage the cash inflow and outflow. And I never had to look at numbers when I was in house. I just got to sit at my computer and write things and, and I imagined that's what business was going to be like when I went out on my own and got, I was so young and dumb.
Ashlee Berghoff (13:27):
Yeah. It's like, Oh wait, my baby business has all the same departments as a massive corporation. I'm just sitting in all of those chairs. No, the same stuff has to get done.
Angie Colee (13:39):
I remember the first time that I let go of my expenses, which was like a big growth point for me. Cause I hated it. I would leave tracking all of my receipts. So, you know, if you're new to business, first of all, just start a second bank account. That's purely for business stuff only by business stuff, through that. That's going to make your life so much easier. But I was just so convinced that like I was going to get screwed over by a tax like an accountant. I was afraid cause I had never worked with one. So I didn't know what it was like. I was afraid that she was going to judge me because I suck at math and finance in general. And it's something I'm working on getting better. Again, I'm a creative person. I like to be over here playing around in a lot of lands in a world of my own imagination versus dealing with realities of adulting, like student loan, payments and taxes.
Angie Colee (14:35):
So, but, and then also was the compounding factor of, I was scared to spend $500 to have her prepare and file my taxes on top of quarterly bookkeeping fees. It all just like I was spending so much money and it hurts viscerally to spend that money. But then when I looked back on it, after a couple years of doing this, I realized how much of my time I had bought back by making one that one small step. And I don't know. Have you discovered something similar when you were working on your business that like letting go was so scary at first, but then you had a surprising revelation afterwards.
Ashlee Berghoff (15:21):
Yeah. So I've had a few kind of smaller versions of that where, you know, the first time I hired a coach or the first time I invested in better software, like each one of those steps just feels scary. But I think the biggest one for me was when I got pregnant and was taking care of 11 clients myself and realized that unless I figured out a way to support them while I was gone, not only would nothing happened the entire time I was away on maternity leave to support them, but also my revenue would go to zero overnight. Right. And so I decided to hire people and to figure out how to hand over my clients, which were the heart and soul of the business to another human being for at least five weeks while I was completely, you know, useless to the world because I was sleeping two hours a night healing from, you know, having a baby.
Ashlee Berghoff (16:27):
And so, um, I hired two people and tried to figure out over the course of two months, how to do exactly, like we've talked about, let go download my brain into another person, give them the chance to build a relationship with these, these people who I really cared about personally. And it wasn't just about, you know, Oh, you know, the business, I wanna make sure that, you know, my customers are happy because it's my business. It was also, you know, I had these long running relationships with these people. I don't want to let them down. I want to make sure that they're still really taken care of. And it was really difficult. And I think the thing that I thought before that I realized now was, was harmful to me was I thought if I did it right, then there would be no problems if I figured it out and prepared perfectly and did everything right. And hired the right people, there would just be no problems. And it would just work. I love that.
Angie Colee (17:36):
Yes. Like entrepreneurial fantasy land. I only have to solve this problem once and then I am done with the problem.
Ashlee Berghoff (17:42):
Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't realize that this would be an ongoing iterative process that would never stop of learning how to lead of learning, how to build a team. And so when there were problems, I was immediately in the sense of, you know, I screwed up, I, I obviously did something wrong. There should have been, you know, a perfectly seamless transition here. And I'm so grateful for you and for my other clients for riding that out with us, as we figured that out. Um, uh, you know, I think now if I could go talk to myself as I was first doing that, I would sit myself down and say, all right, this isn't going to work perfectly the first time. And that is okay, this is part of it. Um, you will learn, you will iterate each time you go through this process, you'll get better at it.
Ashlee Berghoff (18:38):
You'll learn more quickly next time, all of those things. And it will be all right. You know? Cause I think even your story with bringing on your first accountant, right? You had challenges with your first bookkeeper and we had to kind of figure out a way to fix that. And, but I don't know that you ever in that process wanted to go back to the days before moving forward, you were still saying, okay, I am going to find a way to like get help in this area. So I don't have to do it again. And so even, even when it's hard, it's still worth moving into.
Angie Colee (19:17):
That's such a good point. I hadn't even thought about it that way until you just brought it up. But like when, when that bookkeeper didn't work out and this is, you know, as an aside to everybody that's listening, you entrepreneurs, sometimes relationships just don't work and it's nothing against you personally. It doesn't mean you suck as a person doesn't necessarily mean they suck as a person, just like people grow apart. People go in different directions in business, they change priorities. They have personal shit happen in their lives. And sometimes somebody that you're counting on goes away for a reason that's entirely not personal. And so when that bookkeeper and I didn't work out, it's funny to me that I didn't even realize my first instinct was not like, Oh, I'm going to have to do this again. It was like, no. Who else do we find? I don't want to go back to doing that. Continuing the upward spiral. Oh goodness. That was, that was such a fun time in my life. And I'm being entirely sarcastic there.
Angie Colee (20:19):
But I think that was, I love that you've made that point that so many would be entrepreneurs stop themselves before they even get started because they want to figure out that perfect plan and they want to solve that problem. The one-time and then move on to what they're really good at or what their passion is. And it's like, Oh, sweet child. This is, this is going to be constant problem. That is, that is what you're signing up for. It's it's constant problem solving, but I would much rather solve problems under my own umbrella, under my own brain power, bringing in my own revenue, then be handed someone else's problems because I'm an employee and have no choice in the matter. Like I don't get paid if I don't solve this problem and I don't have to like it.
Ashlee Berghoff (21:16):
Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, you know, even though entrepreneurs, a lot of times get into it and realize like, wow, this is harder than I expected. This is a steep learning curve. I'm having to change this person. You know, I expected this Eureka moment and then everything was going to be this hockey stick growth curve and it was going to be awesome. And that's not the experience, you know, statistically, the vast majority of people who do this are so glad that they did and most never go back, you know? Um, or at least don't want to because it's worth, it just is.
Angie Colee (21:54):
Yeah. I think the irony is that most people who start off as employees and they decide they want to be an entrepreneur later, are they wig out over the uncertainty? I don't know what's going to happen. But the funny thing is on the other side of the fence, the uncertainty of being an employee scares me more because I don't have any control over how that goes. You know, at the end of the day, somebody else running a business with me as an employee, they have a responsibility to make sure that they're profitable. And if it, if at some point they hit a rough patch in the business, you know, like 2020, this is the year where people realized they could lose their job without having done anything wrong. Um, and, and it could all go away unexpectedly. And I don't say that to scare monger, but just that this idea of security and being in a job now that I'm on the other side of it, I realize it's just, it's not a thing. It's an illusion.
Ashlee Berghoff (22:56):
It's true. And I think in when you own your own business, you'll have ups and downs. You'll have challenges, but it's rare that you're going to have a day where someone, you know, sits you down and there goes your entire business, right? You can ride things out and you can come back from dips and you can have, you know, cash reserves on hand to save up for, for, and things like that. Um, in a way that even if some fee, even if you lose a client, you have others and you're not going to zero overnight in the same way that sometimes losing the job
Angie Colee (23:32):
And that, you know, that's actually an important point too. It's kind of a tangent, but I think a lot of what invites the panic when considering being an entrepreneurship is poor cashflow and you know, okay, I can hear you guys all laughing that the creative person who's been like anti-money this entire episode is about to lecture you on money, but buckle up here. It comes, uh, you need an emergency fund. You need a retirement savings. If you feel really uncomfortable about quitting your job to do your own thing, it's probably because you don't feel very secure about the money that you have and whether you'll be able to support yourself. And if you have a savings, if you build up a savings for at least a couple of months, you have bought back your peace of mind. And that, that is priceless to me, just knowing that I don't have to, if, if I lose a client, that's fine, I'll, I'll make it.
Angie Colee (24:29):
And I'll figure out in the next couple of months, how to make up for that revenue. If my car breaks down. But God, this summer, I think you were, you heard some of my gripes this summer air conditioner went out like four times and we had to keep calling repair people over. That could be an emergency if I didn't have that money saved up and I wasn't prepared to deal with that. But just because I have that money set aside, all of these things, don't turn into emergencies. And I think that's the key that I want. Like the idea is not to be prepared for anything because that's not really possible, but be prepared for something to happen because we know something unexpected is going to happen. So just don't let those unexpected somethings turn into an emergency because you didn't have money set aside. That's where people get into the danger zone with becoming an entrepreneur. They just, they don't treat it seriously enough sometimes.
Ashlee Berghoff (25:31):
Yeah. To kind of recognize, you know, what, this isn't going to be a smooth road. And I need to be able to ride out the bumps while keeping my sanity.
Angie Colee (25:43):
And I know that I'm guilty of this when I first started out, like I treated it almost like a hobby. I kinda, I kind of half-assed it at first just to see how it goes, you know? And if I, if it looks like the signs are all pointing to yes, shaking my magic eight ball, then I'll put my full effort into this. And like, if I could advise you differently, it would be save up enough money for three to six months, trust that that's enough time to figure it out. If you're not laying on the couch, watching Netflix that entire time, you're actually getting to work and being serious about bringing in money, uh, and, and buy back that time so that you can focus and, and generate the revenue that you were looking to generate.
Ashlee Berghoff (26:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Cause then, you know, okay, I'm prepared for what this is going to really mean. You know, I'm, I'm not reading stories of entrepreneurs who seem to have these overnight success stories and expecting that. I know it's going to take work. It's going to take time and I'm ready for that. And then when that happens, you're prepared, you're mentally in the right space and it will feel a lot better.
Angie Colee (26:52):
I was, I had another guest recently. Her name is Carolynn where we were talking about kind of the, the stigma that some entrepreneurs get when they go back to a day job. And I have people that I've met that are surprised that like I started as an entrepreneur and I failed and I went and I took a job so that I could get better at marketing and copywriting. And then I tried again and I did better that time, but I still had to live in my car for a little bit while I was starting my business. Not that I advocate living in your car, it's not fun, especially not when you have a diabetic cat, uh, you know, like those overnight success stories. It always makes me laugh because it's just not a thing. You just didn't see the messy beforehand. You're just hearing about the successful part and then filling in the gaps with what you think happened. Um, it's usually very, very far from accurate. Yeah.
Ashlee Berghoff (27:47):
Yeah. Or we're looking at people 15 years down the line and saying, Oh, I should be like them when it took them a 15 year journey to get where they are.
Angie Colee (27:56):
Yeah, exactly. Oh man. Adventures in entrepreneurship. It's super, super fun. It is one of the biggest growth journeys. I think that you could put yourself on. And, and I was talking to someone else recently about how I've noticed that my biggest mistakes and the biggest mistakes of people that I coached is going into entrepreneurship and treating it like you're still an employee. And that's where you get overwhelmed by having to wear all these hats, because you're still thinking that like, I get to go, okay. I put in my 40 hours a week, I get my paycheck and I'm done.
Angie Colee (28:41):
And it's just, it's a totally different reality. And you can't really help that. Cause if you've been an employee, you don't really have any other way to look at this. But becoming an entrepreneur is really about learning to think differently, being willing to make these investments. Like we talked about being able to trust someone else to operate in their zone of genius and do this thing for you and actually give a about it the way that you would. Right. Right. Yeah. Like I know, I know that you guys give a about the business that I've been building the last few years. And so that's, you know, but, but that was a journey too, like you said, you were scared to interview with me. I was scared to hand that off to you. It's funny how it comes full circle. Um, so Ashlee, I think that was a really, really awesome conversation.
Angie Colee (29:37):
Uh, do you have a website where people can check you out and uh, if so, what is it?
Ashlee Berghoff (29:44):
Yes. It's a squared online.com. Um, we have everything there about who we are and what we're doing. And um, yeah, we have a free audio training there about cleaning out your to-do list every day. You're more than welcome to download that. And yeah, lots of, lots of blog posts over the years of, of my own journey of growing this and just happy to be on this journey with so many incredible entrepreneurs.
Angie Colee (30:16):
Um, and if, if you are a creative like me and you are just overwhelmed with like, how do I actually turn this into a business that brings in money? How do I handle all of these different pieces of it? I'm so overwhelmed, highly recommend that you check out Ashlee's company. She can at least point you in the right direction if you wind up not working together, um, and has been an invaluable resource for me. And, uh, you said, you mentioned that you have a book coming out too.
Ashlee Berghoff (30:44):
I do. And it's all about what we've been talking about. So the title is Eureka results. How entrepreneurs can turn their best ideas into reality. It will be published by a new degree press in April of 2021. Very excited about it, talking about the tools that we can use as entrepreneurs to navigate the journey towards actually making our ideas happen. Um, so I'm, yeah, it's gonna be great. I'm really excited about
Angie Colee (31:14):
That is so exciting. I get an autograph copy, right?
Ashlee Berghoff (31:17):
Yes you do.
Angie Colee (31:22):
So that is it another awesome episode of permission to kick on the books. If you want to know more about the show, if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permission to kick ass.com. That is all one word together, permission to kick ass.com, make sure to sign up for my email list so that, you know, whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called kick Mondays ass I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it, comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.