Angie Colee (00:01):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is Anna Iveson. Say hi.
Anna Iveson (00:25):
Hey Angie. Hey, Angie's listeners.
Angie Colee (00:28):
Well, this is the first time that you're coming on the show and I'm so excited about it. I know we talked a little bit beforehand about what you would talk about on the show and it's been an interesting evolution. I think you're one of my favorite students. Am I allowed to say that. Am I supposed to say when I was a coach?
Anna Iveson (00:44):
I don't think you are, but I'll take it
Angie Colee (00:47):
Well, cause I remember early, I met you when you were one of the co one of my coaching students in a program that I coached for. And I, I just remember this one conversation that we had that hit me like right in the heart, you were having such a struggle and you were like, I I've got these clients. It's a full-time workload, but I'm not making enough. And like, where do I go from here? And we had a really deep discussion about, you know, letting go and charging what you're worth and having faith, the right fits are gonna come along. If you have the courage to let go of the wrong fits. And now I love this, like the evolution of where you were to where are, is just amazing. And you've done it with family. Like that's no easy feat. I know a lot of entrepreneurs that have families. It's just me and my cat. So I have a little bit of different struggles, but it's like, I, I was just telling you before we started recording that I feel like every week or every other week, one of my newer coaching students comes to me and asks for advice. And one of my first instincts is, oh, you should go talk to Anna. You should go talk to her and you should ask her about this. You should follow her LinkedIn posts and see what she's saying about this. And like, your name comes up so often, and it's just such a big transition. So I wanted to dive into that a little bit deeper. Um, I know that you remember that call. Do you wanna speak a little bit more to that?
Anna Iveson (02:09):
Yeah, sure. So I, I remember that call, um, and I think it was triggered because a couple of other people in the coaching program had been talking about how they'd just had their first 10 figure month, not 10 figure. Good Lord. If they'd had a 10 figure. They had their first 10 K month and I was still kind of scrambling around the two K month mark, and I just felt like I was working all the hours and I couldn't seem to get my revenue up basically because I've got three small children. Now they're four, six and eight. So they're really little. And at the time they were even younger. So I was trying to balance my, um, copywriting workload with being around for the family, because I always wanted to be the kind of parent that could basically have, have my cake and eat it. I wanted to have the career and I wanted to be supermom as well. Um, and so I was just looking, thinking, God, how am I going to get to the point where I can have those 10 K months at the same time as being there for my family? And it just felt absolutely impossible. And like I was banging my head against the wall and my schedule at that point was absolutely booked solid. I literally did not have another minute to take on any client work. And, and I remember you saying to me, like, you're gonna have to level up your client, so you're gonna have to say goodbye to the clients that you had. Um, and at that time I hadn't been writing copy for a very long time. And obviously the imposter syndrome then starts to strike hard cuz you're thinking right. Okay. I know I need to charge more, but I don't have the skills to charge more and to give value at the price point that I want to charge. Um, so I, I kind of don't buy into the, the mantra that you hear people say all the time, which is "charge your worth" because I don't feel like you get to just set a price and, and demand that amount of money because you feel like it, you have to give that level of value to your clients. Otherwise you get a bad reputation.
Angie Colee (03:59):
Yes.
Anna Iveson (03:59):
So there's kind of a time lag then of like, how do I, how do I get to that point when I know that that's what I really want? Um, so what I ended up doing was going all in with an ad agency. Um, which was the thing that gave me the skills because I had this amazing copy chief that was give me a, all this amazing guidance and mentorship. And after spending time at the agency, that was when I got to the point where I can now charge my worth in inverted commerce. Um, but it wasn't an instant, instant transition from being a pauper to making the kind of money that I actually wanted to make.
Angie Colee (04:37):
Oh yeah, no, I totally get that. I was just, I was writing down so many notes as I was listening to you speak and I, I love that you mentioned, you know, I wanted to be that person that has it all the career, the super mom. Cause I know one, one of my earlier episodes was with Belinda Weaver, who I think you also know, um, who talked about letting go of this idea of super mom. So I like having these two different perspectives of like somebody that doesn't wanna be super mom and somebody that does and are fantastic writers and parents and amazing people. Like I love this difference in perspective. And just like, there were some things that you mentioned that I thought were so smart, like having the skills to charge more. And I think that's like, there's almost a double atandra is not the right word, but I think you get what I'm going and for it's like, it's the skills to charge more meaning you have the valuable skills that deliver the value to the client that enable you to charge more. But it's also literally having the skill to raise the prices, have the conversations with your clients, let go of the ones that won't grow with you. I know, uh, one of the books that I read, uh, Million Dollar Consulting by Alan Weiss and uh, one of the things that he says, I think he's a really smart consultant is you should be aiming to regularly cut out the bottom 20% of your business, which means regularly cutting or regularly raising prices and raising prices is going to have the effect of some people can't or won't grow with you, right. Because they either haven't reached that stage or they can't afford it. Or maybe they're even moving in different directions or you're moving in a different direction. Like there's a lot of different reasons that relationships end that don't have to do with everybody thinking that you suck and they may not like that you raised prices, but they don't have to because it's your business.
Anna Iveson (06:26):
Yeah. And I, I, I did have a conversation like that with one of my clients just before Christmas where, um, I'd lowballed myself because I was just transitioning away from the agency and I wanted to fill up my schedule with clients. He came in and I thought, great, this is gonna fill up like a big chunk of my schedule. I'll I'll set this price. And then demand was just way higher than I'd expected when I came out the agency. Um, and three months later clients were coming in, offering me double what this client was offering me. And so I got to a point where the, well, I absolutely adore this client. He's so much fun. I get to experiment everything that I'm doing. Like, it feels like I'm playing, cuz it's, he's so great to work with, but is it worth taking a 50% pay cut to carry on having a nice time? And, and so I had to have that uncomfortable conversation and I was just completely honest. I said, I love working with you. I don't want to stop working with you, but listen, I've got like a queue of clients who will pay me double what you are paying. So I'm, I'm gonna have to say goodbye. And he in the end met me halfway.
Angie Colee (07:31):
Oh nice.
Anna Iveson (07:32):
And so I decided actually the learning experience that I get from working with him is so huge and I can afford to be so experimental and creative and also it's just really fun. And so I, I took that amount of a, a hit to my pay for all the other benefits that come from working with him.
Angie Colee (07:50):
You know, I'm so glad that you said that too, because I think that there is, especially in the, the copywriting industry, but with a lot of freelancers in general, like just this focus on the money and what you can generate and what people will pay you. And I totally get that because we all need a roof over our heads and clothes on our back and food in our bellies. Like there's, there's some things that money makes it really nice to have, like going in for me, it's going in hot air balloons and eating out of fancy restaurants. Like that's what I like to do. And that's why I stray structure of my earnings the, in the way that support the lifestyle that I want. But there are also those intangibles that you can get when you focus on the relationship and what each of you is getting out of this relationship beyond just the, the change of money, the exchange of money. Um, and I love that you said that about, I get to have so, so much fun and I get to be creative and I get to be experimental and I have this leverage to go tell him, okay, I'm having a lot of fun. And also I'm getting these really amazing offers. Can we talk about what a different arrangement would look like? It can be, I mean, I'm not saying that's easy, cuz there's a whole lot of psyching up that has to happen behind the scenes before you have a conversation like that with somebody that you, even somebody that you really like and you get along with. But uh, you know, just bringing that up in context and, and this whole idea that more demands naturally leads to higher prices that it's just, I mean, that's basic economics right there. And I think that's one of the struggles that I have with some of my coaching students, because they'll really focus on landing one or two clients at a time. They're very concerned with not overworking themselves. Totally, totally get it. But I'm like, baby, please just keep prospecting, keep bringing in more deals that you can possibly handle. And then that way you get to go, you know, I really like that one. I get to experiment. I get paid really well. Ooh. You know, I don't really like that one. That feels a lot like being back at a job, even though it pays really nice. I'm gonna refer that one off to a friends.
Anna Iveson (09:52):
Yeah. And that, that feels good for one thing to be able to, to help out your peers by, by handing it out well, not handing out, um, work to other people. Um, and also it, it does give you a lot more leverage when you are in negotiations to say, right, well, I've got four other people who will pay me this much. You don't wanna get into kind of nasty negotiation with anybody, but you, you have a much stronger hand to play when, when you can afford to say actually, do you know what this deal doesn't work for me. And I've got better offers on the table.
Angie Colee (10:24):
Yeah. And that's, that's the power in and of itself. It's not even necessarily that the other people have given you concrete offers. It's just that you don't need this gig. I don't need it. I can walk away because I don't actually need this. I've got four of the people that are ready to sign the check and get started today. And there's a lot of power in having that. And you can create that for yourself in a bunch of different ways. One is, you know, building your expertise like you did going in house, getting that expertise. That's something that Chris Orzechowski, who's been another guest and, and someone that, you know, and I have talked about a little bit because I, I don't know if a lot of people know this. He and I both have master's degrees in different fields and stuff like that. But for a while we both worked for a big name, internet marketer named Jeff Walker. And we both credit that in-house experience as invaluable to our career growth. There's just something magical that happens when either you, you go in house like that as an employee or a long term contractor, and you really get in deep with one business and understand it from the inside out. And that, that helps you wrap your head around the struggles that other business owners are having and how you could potentially help them. I think that that was such a smart move on your part. Like just go in house and learn every everything that you can.
Anna Iveson (11:40):
Yeah. And the one thing that I'm really thankful that I kept on doing was, um, I carried on emailing my email list, which is not massive, but I kept that up the whole time that I was, uh, an employee in inverted commerce. Um, I also always publish a weekly blog again. I kept that up. Um, I kept posting on social media like three, four times a week. Um, and a few people had said to me, why are you doing this? You've got a steady job. And, and I said, well, you know, I, I can't guarantee this is gonna be forever. They may not keep me forever. I may not want to be there forever. And so I don't want to, I, I mean, I've probably been posting on social media, emailing my list, writing blogs for over a year. At that point, I'd built up an audience, not a massive audience, but an audience nonetheless. And so I didn't want to go back to square one because I knew how much I'd had to sweat to get to the point where I was.
Angie Colee (12:32):
Oh yeah.
Anna Iveson (12:32):
And, and I just don't want to lose all that. So I thought, well, it's gonna be maybe an extra three hours a week of work, keeping my visibility up, keeping in the habit of producing content every week. And by doing that, the day that I handed in my notice at the agency, I received three emails from people out to the blue say that they needed my help. And so my diary was booked back up the day I walked out the agency, which was such a relief cause I was terrified the day.
Angie Colee (13:02):
That's so amazing. And so smart. Cause I know I've joked before that I'm I was definitely a cobbler's kids. I have no shoes. I mean, email marketing specialist and I help people grow their list and make a lot of sales all the time, day in, day out. And I wasn't emailing my list or actively focusing on growth while I was working with Jeff and his team. Um, and even last year, I wasn't really, as I was launching the podcast, I wasn't super focused on list growth or making offers. So I think that that's fantastic that you were like, Nope, Nope. I can't guarantee any of this, I'm not gonna put my own stuff on hold for these guys. And you know, I, I understand that terror on a deep visceral level of like I'm leaving the quote unquote steady job and heading off into the great unknown. And I don't know if I'm gonna make all of my income goals. And then like how amazing is that to outta the, you didn't even have to email your list and say, Hey, I'm, I'm taking on clients. I've got space.
Anna Iveson (14:03):
No, I mean, it was literally, and, and I'm not a big believer in woo or the universe or any of that kind of stuff, but it was literally like the universe had been watching and smiling down on me because it was on day that I handed in my notice, I received an email from a past client saying that she needed some help with her Facebook ads. And then the following day, she then referred me to one of her friends who also needed help with the ads. And then, um, our, our coach Kevin also then referred me somebody that week and, and my schedule was full. And so, yeah, it really was just like the universe been watching and saying like, you need to, you need to go back to being a freelancer again.
Angie Colee (14:46):
You know, it is funny I'm, I'm not really woo, but I can admit to there being a lot of weird coincidences that I don't understand that seem a little bit too magical. So like how the hell did this happen? Um, and something similar happened to me when, uh, when I first started in copywriting. So I had a lovely friends that took my broke ass in, on their couch while I was trying my hand at freelancing and failing miserably, cuz I didn't really have business skills the first time around. And eventually they needed to move into a bigger apartment. I couldn't afford to go with them cause it just wasn't generating the revenue. And so I had a hard choice ahead of me, which was to really throw in my lot with this whole copywriting because it really felt like something I should be doing or go home. My parents would take me in, I could go get my old job waiting tables and just like slowly rebuild. And that was the first time in my life that something really screamed at me in my gut and said, stay here. Your future is here. And if you go home, you will be waiting tables forever. And I can't explain it to this day. And I advise, learn from my mistakes. Never tell your parents that you're choosing to be homeless. Maybe sh maybe share this with them after you've experienced the homelessness and survived it and then tell them, Hey, so I had a little patch, but it's okay now. Um, they were not very happy with me, but the day the, and you can't make this up the day I lost my apartment and turned in keys is the day that I got my first junior copywriting job. They called me that freaking day. And I remember having to spend the rest of the time, like juggling my cat, go into the library, faxing forms. Like if I had given up on that dream and gone back to safety just, and, and just bought into those feelings of fear, I would never have been in town for them to make the offer for me. Like I would've already sabotaged that offer. So like, I totally get that. And then just following your gut and trusting that the people are gonna appear.
Anna Iveson (16:53):
And, and I've been, I've been super, super lucky since going back to freelancing that I've been crazy busy. Um, and obviously I credit that a lot to the skills that I picked up at the agency. Um, but it was just maintaining that consistency and visibility over that time as well, that made that happen.
Angie Colee (17:13):
You know what, I'm, I'm gonna an issue, a minor correction or challenge, not a correction, a challenge because you said lucky and I don't think it has a damn bit of thing to do with luck. I think it, you know, cause I heard one definition of luck that I really like. And whenever somebody tells me, I'm lucky I get a little bit miffed at them cuz I'm like, uh, no, I've worked my ass off to get it here. It takes, you want a podcast and you think I'm lucky to have one, it takes a lot of work to produce a podcast. Like I've worked really hard to get this here. Luck is just preparation meeting opportunity.
Anna Iveson (17:48):
Yeah.
Angie Colee (17:49):
You make your own luck. So that none of that was meant to like make you feel bad or anything. Well, like you're not lucky girl, you went out there and you owned that shit. Yes. I'm so proud of you. I mean that in a non condescending way, like just legit watching your star rise has been a genuine pleasure.
Anna Iveson (18:12):
Well, I could, I can credit a lot of, a lot of it to you because you've been such an amazing support to me over the last few years.
Angie Colee (18:20):
Aww. Also, I mean what's what do you see being the next evolution now? I mean now, so how long has it been since you left the agency?
Anna Iveson (18:30):
Um, not that long, actually. I left at the end of August last year. So it's been six, seven months. Um, since, yeah, since I went back to being independent
Angie Colee (18:41):
And presumably you're full for like the next several months.
Anna Iveson (18:45):
Well interestingly I made a slight boo boo, um, before Christmas. Hmm. In that I, I was, I was getting inquiry after inquiry and so I was booking my diary out three, four months ahead. Um, I was completely full and then other opportunities were coming up, which were really cool. And they were the kind of opportunities that were too good to pass up. And so what I'd done was I'd said to myself of I'm, I'm gonna dedicate X amount of hours per week to client work. And then at least one day per week is gonna be the day that I work on my stuff for me and for growing my business. And then these other opportunities came up and I was like, oh, that, that day that I set aside for myself, I'm gonna have to give that up to over to client work. So I've kind of broken own role that I set for myself temporarily to fit those opportunities in because long term they just seemed like they were, they were too much of a good opportunity to say no to. Um, so since then I have now stopped booking myself out months in advance. And I've, I've said like one to two months max is how far ahead on the book, because I don't want to be in that situation again.
Angie Colee (19:54):
Oh, you know, that sounds like such a fascinating learning though, too. Just there, there were a couple things that I heard in there that I thought again were super smart. One being, you know, the instinct is to book out as far as possible so that you can have that, that security that you were looking for in the day job. Right. We all want that security. It's fantastic. And then I heard you say like these opportunities were too good to pass up. So it's, it's interesting cuz like I think a lot of entrepreneurs in general are chasing this work life balance thing. Right. But you just said so brilliantly and I don't know if you even saw it that like I, I had to follow these and so I'm gonna change my process moving forward. And right now temporarily this work has deceased so that I can do these opportunities and do great by my clients. But like there's a time to hustle. That's part of the balance is hustling so long as you make sure that you're not hustling all the time, 24 7 and you're not taking it easy all the time. 24 7, the balance is somewhere between the two.
Anna Iveson (20:56):
Yeah. And I have to be really disciplined with my time as well. Like there's a, there's a big, there's a hard stop for me every day when I have to go pick my kids up from school, I have a few hours after the end of the day where I, you know, I pick them up from school, I make their dinner, I put 'em to bed cuz I, I want to be that kind of parent for them. I want to be around at that time. Cause it's really important to me. And then I'll pick, work up again after they've gone to bed. But it does mean that when I have to stop, I have to stop. It's like, I can't say to myself today I'm gonna work for an extra number of hours cuz I physically can't. Otherwise my kids will be left at the school gate wondering when mommy's got to take yeah. Or I get no sleep and then I'm just a horrible, horrible person.
Angie Colee (21:38):
Oh I totally understand that. I've I've made that joke at conferences before if I disappear, you know, I'm taking a nap and I'm taking a nap because I, you know happy go lucky, Angie. Uh, you haven't had the opportunity to meet, bitcy irrational Angie. And I'm trying to prevent that from happening, which is why I'm taking a nap. So don't give me shit for my nap time. It's necessary. Sleep is good. Folks. Sleep is good. You don't have to work and give up your sleep. Um, I love that because I think you also talked just about something that's really important, which is knowing what matters to you as a person. And so I think that's totally valid. Like I want to be this mom who makes my kids dinner, who picks them up from school personally, who is there for bedtime and is not always distracted. And that allows you to set good boundaries, which like that's the counter intuitive thing that a lot of people don't realize, which in turn sets off Parkinson's law, which is the amount of time you give it is the amount of time it's gonna take. So like if I gotta get this done today before three, guess what it's gonna get done today before three. But if I gave myself two weeks to get it done, it's gonna to take the next two weeks to get it done. Like the amount of time that you give it. And, and so, you know, like for me, who's on the, the, I don't even know if it's the op opposite end of the spectrum. I don't have kids, but I purposefully schedule things that force me to close my computer at certain times. Like, I'll make a reservation at a restaurant or for an activity or something to where it's like, Nope, no, I gotta go, sorry. I gotta cut this call short. We've been having a great conversation. Maybe we can pick it up again in a couple days. But like I got, I got another appointment I gotta run to. Thank you. I love you. It's never anything wrong with you, but I'm not gonna work all day.
Anna Iveson (23:24):
Well, I know myself as well. If I didn't have those boundaries, I would work every minute of the day because I love what I do. And I'm also insane. Um, and ridiculously competitive about everything. It's, it's helpful to me to have the children and to have those times where I know that like this is me being mommy time. This is me being business owner time. And the two, I try to keep them as separate as possible. Cause I don't want to be on my phone all the time. Answering emails when with children want me to read Peppa Pig or whatever, God awful book they bring over.
Angie Colee (24:04):
Well, I'm glad that you said that you love what you do too, because I also love what I do. And I think that makes it even more important to set those boundaries and build in that purposeful, intentional, deliberate space and separation time from what you do, you know, what what's that joke about? Like go away so I can miss you. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, make your business go away from time to time so that you can miss it and really just bring that fresh freshness and love and enjoyment to it. Cause I, yeah, just like any relationship, your business is something that you're in a long term relationship with and you're gonna have days where you don't really want to talk to this person because they're driving a nuts.
Anna Iveson (24:52):
Thankfully I've not hit that point yet. Um, but I think because for me sometimes as well, like dealing with three small people and trying to keep them alive, it's a really emotional rollercoaster. So even when I'm having a tough day doing work at my desk, it feels a lot less stressful than having to deal with the emotional ups and downs on the temper tantrums and all that kind of stuff that come with having small children. This is like my relaxation time. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna enjoy every minute of it until I get spaghetti hoops thrown at me again.
Angie Colee (25:23):
Oh, that's, you know, perspective, perspectives important. It's got such small bodies and such big feelings. Like I totally understand that when I'm, I'm the one that, uh, way when I skipped one day last year to go to Disney and all my clients know that this is the chance they take with me. I might just call you some day and be like, you know what? I got the work done early. So I'm gonna go to Disney today, all the time. I remember waiting in line for one of the rides and uh, this kid was, he was in his own world. He's playing in the grass. He's kind of holding up the line when mom tries to drag him on, he just starts screaming and crying. He's just having so much fun there in the grass. And she just keeps looking at me and apologizing. And I was like, he's having the time of his life. I don't need an apology. She's just like, yeah, but you're not getting to the ride. Like we're gonna get there. We're all in the line. It's fine. If he takes like 30 extra seconds here playing in the grass. Okay. We'll we'll move eventually. And I could tell that she was just like, what is this? Somebody's not pissed at me for like wrangling my child. Like, no, they don't. They have feelings and they have urgent and their kids. I don't know why I'm going off on this side tangent, but I felt like it was relevant.
Anna Iveson (26:35):
You can have my kids anytime. You probably deal with it better than I do.
Angie Colee (26:39):
I'm everybody's cool aunt. Like, I'm, I'm really good with kids. And I think it's because when, when I hit my limits, I can hand them back to their parents.
Anna Iveson (26:49):
I hear that a lot. My, my sister doesn't have any children and she loves spending time with them. But I think it's, cuz she knows there's there's a, a hard stop when she can just say see you later, you can have them back now.
Angie Colee (27:00):
At least I'm nice enough not to hop them up on sugar and then give them back.
Anna Iveson (27:05):
Yeah. My sister does like to, she likes to get all the baking out, make all the mess and destroy my house and then say, I'm going now. See you,
Angie Colee (27:13):
See, I take them out to do fun, adventurous things. And I get all of the energy out. And by the time they come back to you, they're just passed out. So like, yeah. Oh,
Anna Iveson (27:20):
That sounds perfect. You're definitely welcome to come and look after to my kids. Anytime
Angie Colee (27:25):
I'll trade you Stella, you can take care of Stella. Uh she's she's pretty easy going. Oh, so, okay. I like that. You have got all of this incredible learning. I'm only gonna book myself one to two months in advance so that I can take on any really interesting opportunity that's too good to pass up. That comes to my way. How do you see your business going in the future? Is that just open to evolution and what happens as well?
Anna Iveson (27:51):
I am going to be much more strict with myself about maintaining that one day of the week to work on my own stuff. Um, I've been doing a lot more consulting over the last couple of months. I've been training a, an in-house copywriter for one of my clients. Oh nice. So I won't be writing their copy she's she will be writing their copy, but she was starting from like literally ground zero. So that's been a really good experience actually is systemizing my process to the, that it is in a kind of concrete sort of linear learning path. Um, and seeing it work as well. And, and probably what I can do is then take everything that I've been using with her and then turn it into some kind of course or, or program eventually. But that terrifies me.
Angie Colee (28:43):
Yes. You know, that's, that's something that I think a lot of people like look down their nose. There's, there's an association with courses. There's a lot of skepticism and, and there are definitely some course creators out there that either they're just not good teachers, you know, and teaching is a skillset, all, all its own. So that's no shade. If you're not a great teacher, it's, it's definitely an aptitude and, and a practiced skill. And there are people out there that are just about the money grab. So they create not great courses. So there's already a lot of skepticism around that. And by the same token, when you've been doing the same thing for so long that you've got systems and processes that help you shortcut the work that's involved, that's not laziness, that's smart, that's getting more efficient. That's increasing your profitability. And the fact that you can use that to teach other people how to get good, fast and systematize their own processes that's called creating an asset, which is moving beyond. I, I even told you before we started recording, but I just felt, I just recorded this episode with Chris Orzechowski about his evolution from freelancer to CEO. And we talked about similar thing, there's kind of freelancer and then there's consultant. And then you start to evolve into CEO and business owner and create these different products and revenue streams. And so that's interesting. There's not a lot of nice symmetry happening today. Sounds like Anna's on her way to CEO. I like this.
Anna Iveson (30:07):
Well, I, so, um, I'm half Japanese and half German. So efficiency is kind of in my blood, everything, everything that I do has to be systemized because, um, it's just the way that, like I was, I suppose I was brought up, my family was like very, very big on efficiency in doing things fast. So just naturally when I'm working on things, everything tends to just fall into a, a system and a structure, which means that it has been quite easy for me to teach the way I work to this, to the copywriter because it's already systemized anyway. And it was just a case of turning into a presentation and delivering it. And so far it's used to be working well.
Angie Colee (30:47):
Yeah, no, I love that because, and, and especially with the freelancers on the newer end of the spectrum that I've coached before, they, they struggle a lot, you know, just their own mental mindset stuff. They struggle a lot with this idea of if I'm not working hard, I'm not providing value and it's no value is value. And working hard is working hard and they are not the same thing. You don't have to build something from the ground up every single time in order to provide value for someone. In fact, the value could be that you found a shortcut and I can get this thing done in half the time for half off the cost and get you more sales. Like what would that be worth for you? It's amazing. So if you're on the newer end of the spectrum, just lean into creating systems and processes and shortcuts. I promise even if you're not really a systems person, just record yourself doing it and transcribe it into steps. Once you find your patterns, the work is gonna become a lot easier, which frees up your time to pursue new and interesting things. It's great.
Anna Iveson (31:51):
I think, I think systems get, have a bad reputation. They just sound deeply unsexy, but when you can turn a system into something that's gonna give you leverage and make you more money, then it suddenly transforms into something deeply attractive.
Angie Colee (32:05):
Yes. I think, you know, I think of systems like autopilot, it's just, you know, we've built it to the point where the plane can fly itself. Once we get to a certain point and me just putting it on autopilot for a little while, if you're a pilot and you're listening to me and you're like, dear God, Angie, that's not how it works. Just roll with it, just roll with it. We're making the story work. So I put it on autopilot for a little bit and I just coast so I can do some other things. Maybe I'm catching up on piloty things. Maybe I'm I, I don't know, but that frees up the space and the mental bandwidth to focus on other things for a while. Eventually I gotta go back to flying the plane and probably land it. It's a good idea. I dunno where I'm going with this.
Anna Iveson (32:47):
All I know is please don't ever fly a plane.
Angie Colee (32:49):
Yes, yes. Uh, you can trust me to remain safely on the ground because physics is not my thing. And I know this because in college I tried to circumvent taking physics classes in my degree, by taking meteorology and astronomy, which guess what are heavily based in physics! So that was not a smart move. So I know, I know enough to stay in my creative lane. I will leave technical and mathematical things to people who operate in zone of genius.
Anna Iveson (33:21):
I'm with you.
Angie Colee (33:24):
Well, on that note, this has been a fantastic conversation. Can you tell us a little bit more about your business and where to find you?
Anna Iveson (33:32):
So you can find me at www.wordistry.co.uk, um, which will soon be turning in to a new website. I'm having a new website built, but if you type in that address, it'll redirect, you'd put to my new domain when it's all shiny and new and ready. Um, and when you're there, you can subscribe to my email list. And when you do, you'll get, um, my free ebook, which is called The Micro Niche method, which teaches you how to, um, split your Facebook ads up in to highly targeted messages that get audiences excited to buy.
Angie Colee (34:04):
Ooh, that's awesome. And I know there are a bunch of people who advertise on Facebook who need help with that. I'm gonna make sure that they have clickable links in the show notes. And thank you so much for being on the shows. It was a fun conversation. And I had no idea where I was going with half of that, but that was half of the fun
Anna Iveson (34:20):
Thank you for having me on.
Angie Colee (34:25):
So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permissiontokickass.com. That is all one word together, permissiontokickass.com. Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.