Angie Colee (00:02):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my longtime travel buddy and fellow foodie, Allison Carpio. Say Hi Allison.
Allison Carpio (00:28):
I love that intro. So honored to be here. So excited to be here, and guess we're not talking about food, but Hey, that's great. I'm still excited to be here.
Angie Colee (00:37):
If I can crow bar it in there somewhere along with our mutual love for nineties R and B, I'm going to find a way to talk about this.
Allison Carpio (00:44):
Don't worry. I will slide it on in there. Don't you worry? I, you know, I'll slip in a food metaphor here and there.
Angie Colee (00:52):
Yeah. Just so you know, you're listening to this, like Allison and I have been in another country in Columbia cooking while Poison is blasting in the background and like filming ourselves doing it. And that was one of my favorite memories ever. Oh my gosh.
Allison Carpio (01:07):
Oh, good memories. Really good memories
Angie Colee (01:10):
Such good memories. Well, tell us a little bit more about what you do.
Allison Carpio (01:13):
Great. So I'm a former copywriter turn copy coach. So I used to do a lot of freelance copywriting. You and I were in a copy writing mastermind together, and I do copy coaching now. And I'm very much of the belief that you can show up authentically in your own copy without the bro and boss babes, sleazy BS that you're seeing flooding all over the internet these days.
Angie Colee (01:40):
Yeah, I totally agree. And like, I want to clarify, cause I, I have such a low regard for bro marketing and I think I literally just recorded a podcast where it was like boss babe is just, I don't like it. If you call yourself that I don't think that you are a bad person necessarily, but like check your language and see if you're subtly undermining yourself by calling yourself a boss babe. Like, I don't know of any male CEO in history that's been like hot CEO daddy. Like why do we do this?
Allison Carpio (02:12):
I just cringed when you said that. And it's also, I mean, what, what I have learned is the bro and boss babe way of marketing of copywriting is very much rooted in oppressive systems. So when you think of white supremacy, colonialism, capitalism, the patriarchy, all of that, it's very much rooted in that. And even though someone might be a boss babe, uh, there's still those oppressive undertones and it's still rooted in that. So when we look at like, um, what the, what comes from truly, and what's really underneath that, it's really, it is always felt really, um, misaligned, you kind of feel that drop in your gut. I know I have. And then when, when we look at why it's like, oh, that makes a lot of sense why it feels way.
Angie Colee (03:00):
Yeah. Like I, well, we're both copywriters and if you're new to the show, you've heard me rant about copy for awhile, but we're basically sales writers. It's a little bit more to it, but that's kind of the easiest way that I have to explain it. Um, and language is important and word choice is important and using the wrong words like boss babe, or using this kind of high pressure tactic language and stuff like that, really just, you can't even identify why it makes you feel so bad, but just like you were talking about it has these undertones and these roots in places that are deeply uncomfortable, which it totally makes sense when you dissect it in that way.
Allison Carpio (03:38):
Yeah, exactly. And what I found too is like language matters. And it's also like, even before that, it's the place that you were coming from when you were writing that really drives the words that you're saying. So for example, if you're doing this launch and you have all this pressure on you and maybe like you, um, I don't know how I'm going to, like, I'm trying to say like when you're, it's not necessarily that you're feeling desperate, but like if you're, if you're coming out at like, I am the best you have, like you're tapping to the ego part of yourself. Um, then what you're going to say is going to come off, you know, feeling misaligned. It's not going to feel like your real ass self. It's going to feel like you're either going to be sound very bro-y or boss babe-ish. Um, you might say, say things that make it seem like, you know, everything or you are absolutely right or you're absolutely perfect. So, um, that's kind of where we, that's one of the ways we step into that territory and whether we use a certain words or not, that tone is a really from that place you are coming from instead of a more like grounded space where you're like, oh, I have something to share with the world and I want to share it versus like, I'm here to persuade you into buying from me and thinking that I am worthy from worthy of working with,
Angie Colee (04:55):
You know, that's really interesting perspective. And I don't know that I'd ever looked at it that way, but it really, really makes sense that how you're feeling, where you're literally coming from, as you're sitting down to write, this has a way of making its way into whatever your promotion, how you're talking about things like that. And so if you're feeling under pressure, if you're feeling like high and mighty and super, you know, oh, I know my shit and everybody needs to have this, um, that that's going to come through in the writing and be not necessarily authentic to who you really are and who you help.
Allison Carpio (05:26):
Yes. And think about, think about your favorite artists, or let's even say like Drake, for example, Drake really taps into his, um, his, his, uh, heavier emotions, more so sadness. So, you know, when he's going through heartbreak, like, you know, you can really feel it in his songs. He's very clear about it. Um, on the other hand, and I'm not saying I respect this, um, this person as a person, but just as an example, Kanye West, when he, he really, he writes from a place of anger, um, sometimes borderline resentment, which I don't recommend, but you can really feel the fucking anger in his, his words and in his, his lyrics and in his, um, in his rhythm too. And you can, you can that really, you know, that's his shit right there.
Angie Colee (06:16):
Well, that's interesting. Cause like I think I had developed over the years kind of a system for calming myself down, getting into like a writing zone and sitting down so that I could be more thoughtful in that approach, but I never really articulated it to myself in quite the way that you just did, which is cool. Teaching me something after over a decade. Always be learning. It's not always be closing, always be learning,
Allison Carpio (06:42):
Always be learning, always be unlearning, whatever you want to call it.
Angie Colee (06:47):
Yeah. That's amazing. So tell me a little bit more about this transition out of writing the copy into teaching people, copying, like how did you go about doing that even?
Allison Carpio (06:56):
So what I was noticing was not only were in, you know, copy school and by copy school. I mean like the books, the masterminds, the communities, the programs, not only were they teaching that boss babe-bro, way of writing copy. A lot of the clients I worked with wanted copy written that way. I thought, Ugh, that's, that's really terrible. Um, so those two things really made me decide like, okay, I really, I want to change this. I don't want copy school to be about that oppressive way. I want to show people that you can, um, do it, or you could show up authentically in your copy. You could, you know, free yourself from all the shoulds from all of the sleeze, from all of the BS. So, um, that was a, that was a large impetus for it. And I remember specifically a moment, um, maybe a couple of years ago I was on a mastermind and the person presenting, um, really brilliant guy, um, said something that would really just hit me, like hit me right in the gut, right in the solar plexus. Um, he was saying something about how like, uh, he was teaching about upsells, which if you're unfamiliar with that, that's when you know, you buy something and then someone tries to upsell you, like, you know, would you like fries with that shake kind of thing. Food metaphor number one. So he was talking teaching about upsells. And one thing he said was like, um, he said, make sure you upsell and I'm totally butchering, but he said, "Make sure you upsell. You never know when you're going to see their money again."
Angie Colee (08:38):
Ew
Allison Carpio (08:39):
Yeah, I just remember thinking like, oh, like, like I remember like my shoulders was kind of like hunched over and I just felt like I needed to prick myself. And it, it, it felt really gross. And you know, there there's a lot, I mean, we could name all of the gross things that are taught out there, twisting the knife for example. But that one really like that was the one that really sent me or that, that made me question like this, something has to change. Something really needs to change. And I don't want to perpetuate this cycle here by, you know, writing copy for people doing this stuff or even teaching people that way.
Angie Colee (09:16):
That's so gross. God, I feel like I need a shower after that too. Like, it just, it makes me picture that these people think of a human being on the other end of the telephone or the other end of the computer screen or wherever they happen to be as a wallet with legs. And like, all I can get from you as money, you know what, you can get relationship, you can get mutual value, you can change their life. There's a lot of things that can come out of that relationship other than open a wallet like, oh that's so crazy.
Allison Carpio (09:44):
Yeah, yeah. It's kind of gross. It's kind of like when you think of, um, those mall stands and they're really trying to chase after you cause you're walking away and they're just really trying and you know, in person that doesn't feel good. And I think you point something out really interesting because it's really easy to make things impersonal on the internet, but it's still personal in many ways.
Angie Colee (10:08):
It's somebody's real life on the other end. Don't fuck with that. You can't, uh, what you, I don't even want to say you shouldn't, don't, don't be the asshole that prioritizes making money and closing sales over someone's life. That's a life. Man take that seriously.
Allison Carpio (10:25):
Yeah. You know, and, and on that note, I just want to say that there is, there is a better way that is not the only way I think. Um, I think it sucks that we are taught that that is the only way or the quote unquote best way. And also, you know, a lot of us have made mistakes. I know I have, because I didn't know better. And I also want, I want this episode to be about just really releasing that shame because you know, where did you learn that you probably learned that from somewhere that's the unfortunate truth and how were you supposed to know?
Angie Colee (10:59):
Yeah, Exactly. You know, I was glad that you mentioned the shoulds cause that really stuck out. I, I wrote it down like circle back to should. Cause I've long had a joke with my circle of friends, like stop shoulding on yourself and, and the similarity stop shitting on yourself is totally intentional in case you didn't pick up on the pun. Um, but I've noticed that whenever I'm saying should about a behavior that I feel like I should be taking on or something I should have known or shouldn't have known, or like it's always in this sense of shame, bad, wrong, ew, there is no should that I can recall anywhere in recent history that was like, yes, empowering. Woo-hoo good.
Allison Carpio (11:40):
It's so true. I know. And, and one that I come across a lot, um, in my content with my clients is, um, I, um, let me back up. So what I come across a lot, um, with my clients and even with my content is a lot of people are feeling so much shame for not writing emails every day, every week, every month, whatever it is, it doesn't even matter what the cadence is. There's just so much shame about, um, not showing up at a certain frequency that is like by this external factor. And I always just tell people like, you know, it's okay to, to be where you're at to show up when you want to, you know, go with the flow of energy, don't go against it. And you know, your business, isn't going to crumble because you didn't send an email every day and, you know, start where you're at. You don't really need to be sending every single day. We're not robots.
Angie Colee (12:34):
Oh yes. I'm totally on board for that. I say that to a lot of my coaching students all the time, too. Like your timing is your timing and it's the perfect timing and you're on where you're at until you learn the thing that you need to learn until you're ready to move forward. And that's that's okay. I find it interesting that you mentioned kind of the stories that are out there that tell us where we should be, because I know one of the ones that keeps coming up on repeat on this show, I think is like a hundred thousand dollars a year or $10,000 a month. Like those are two, those have been marketed to you guys. Is that really something that you should be doing or is that something that you want, there's a critical difference there.
Allison Carpio (13:11):
And it's like, there's so much more to it than that. I mean, what about your sleep? You know, how, what does that look like? What does it look like? What does your time actually look like? Like, am I able to, am I showing up energized when you know, I'm here to work? Am I, you know, still building the relationships that I have, am I spending time doing the things that I love to do with people that I love to do with, am I able to take breaks without feeling guilty for it? You know, there's just so much more to it than just the, the numbers and the monetary. And I think as part of copy school, like that is all we're taught is like the numbers matter, the numbers don't lie, blah, blah, blah. And also here's the thing, like there's so much more to it than that. There's a lot of these invisible, they're not even numbers, but invisible like measures and metrics that we're not talking about. And, um, you know, part of it is just really how you're fucking feeling. Like how proud are you of your copy?
Angie Colee (14:11):
Yes.
Allison Carpio (14:11):
When my clients submit, you know, copy critique, I say that in quotes, I always ask them first and foremost, like, how do you feel about it? Cause if they're saying like, I feel awesome, this feels aligned. Like I, you know, really feel like myself, I'm not going to be telling them like, this doesn't sound like you or this is, you know, whatever, you know, so it's like, I think that's a very miss or an underrated piece of writing copy.
Angie Colee (14:38):
Absolutely.
Allison Carpio (14:40):
I've, I've definitely written copy where I just felt like, Ooh, I gotta do this. I have to do it this way. It feels wrong, but I've got to do it to get, you know, sales, engagement, whatever the hell. And you know, that's like, I think when we're looking over the long term and we're not just looking at that one email, for example, and we're looking at the longterm, like maybe it's the long-term relationships we have with our people, or even just like how we feel about our business. Like that is what I look at. And I think that is much more important in many ways.
Angie Colee (15:12):
Yeah. I think it's interesting that you talk about the feelings involved in this. And then when you said sleep, I was over here just like, do we need to talk about sleep? Cause I, you know, I coach a lot of writers as well. And I had someone on the team that I was working with on a series of emails recently that I actually had to say, Hey, so I feel like I'm momming you here a little bit. Excuse me, for being a parental figure here for a minute. How much are you sleeping? Cause I feel like you're staying up all night to get these drafts done. And it shows in the work like I actually would prefer that you get more sleep than staying up all night to get this to me and like, tell me, I need an extra day. I'm sorry to slip this deadline. But like I haven't had any sleep it's okay. Like talk to me, get some sleep, take care of your mind, take care of your body. It's going to do that much better work for not pushing yourself to that absolute limit. Like
Allison Carpio (16:04):
Yeah, that's so true. And you know, I, in, in times like those, sometimes I always like to think of like, what would sixty-year-old Allison say? Like, would she say, yeah, it was a good thing that you had lost those nights of sleep for that copy project. Like, no, it was really good that you, you know, really prioritized your health and your sleep, you know,
Angie Colee (16:26):
Hey, thanks for taking me out on a walk all those years ago. Uh, my joints, future future Allison's joints, thank you for helping us get some sleep.
Allison Carpio (16:36):
Exactly, exactly. Joints, you know, skin, whatever, whatever you want to use.
Angie Colee (16:43):
I'm on like a skin improvement journey recently. And I also didn't realize the power of like your life habits. It's not just how you wash your skin or what you put on your skin, but what, what you eat, how much you're sleeping, how much you're going out in the sun, like stuff that I just never bothered to learn at any point in, in my upbringing. And so, yeah, it's all interconnected. Like I don't understand how so many people separate their body from their business. It is your business
Allison Carpio (17:11):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, because if you think about it, like if, if you were to get really sick tomorrow, you know, and let's say you don't have team members, you don't have team members or maybe you have a really small team who maybe quite depend on you. Like how would you, how would you be able to, um, still support yourself?
Angie Colee (17:36):
Yeah. I think one of our mutual friends, Kevin talks about, uh, how long could your business run without you? And ever since I first heard that question, I was like, Ooh, okay. So that's something that I want to work on in my business on figuring out how to make sure that it can run without me, if I need to take time to recover if I need time, because I found a really interesting restaurant and I want to be gone off the beaten path for a couple of days, having an adventure. Um, there, there are multiple reasons beyond I need to rest because I got sick to take time off work and they're all okay.
Allison Carpio (18:10):
Yes, rest. I'm a big fan of rest. And, um, I, so I used to go to this co-working space before it closed in the pandemic. RIP. And I was very much known as the person who would take naps throughout the day in the very like public place. Like there was this bench, there, there were pillows, people would walk back and forth. It was like a high traffic area. And I would still take naps throughout the day. Like I just, I just need those naps.
Angie Colee (18:36):
They never get the video, but I'm over here doing like the Freddie Mercury fist in the air. Like, yes, I am the nap person too. When I used to do those big in-person conferences and I was on staff. All of my team members knew that if I disappeared in the middle of the day it's nap time, she'll be back in like 30 minutes, maybe an hour, if she's really tired, it'll be okay. Uh, guys, you're dealing with a much better Angie when Angie takes a nap, I'm just telling you.
Allison Carpio (19:02):
Yes. Yeah. And I mean, I it's, I think like growing up, going to private school, like we just weren't allowed to take breaks or take any risks. Like we always had to be go, go, go kind of thing. You couldn't waste any time. And that's something I've really had to unlearn. Um, especially in the past year and, and running my businesses like breaks are actually good. Like it's okay to take breaks. Like you don't breaks aren't a sign of weakness, Rest isn't a sign of weakness. It is actually something that you are doing for yourself. So you can show up and, you know, show up with that energy. And people will notice when you are more energized rather than like feeling like you really had to be there. You drag yourself out of bed.
Angie Colee (19:47):
Absolutely. And you know, an interesting conversation came up on another episode I recorded, uh, where we were talking about flipping that script about feeling guilty, that you're not filling up all of your time with just activities. And go, go, go, go, go. If you think of in the past about what we had to do to make a business work, you have to sew your own garments. You had to find someone that could make your shoes. These things would take days and materials sourced from overseas and you would wear them forever. Like it took so much time in the past just to make the food, make the clothes, get ready for work, go out and actually plow the field. And those are all things that technology has eliminated for a lot of us. I think, instead of feeling guilty that that time is not filled with activities like maybe celebrate, like I'm, I'm incredibly fortunate to be in this position to be able to work online and take the space that I need. Okay, cool. I'm going to, I'm going to take some space and I'm going to figure out how to make my little corner of the world a better place instead of filling my time with shit.
Allison Carpio (20:49):
Yeah. Really. I love really, really, um, leaning into that gratitude and another way I think about that too, because I think about guilt a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Catholic church for that.
Angie Colee (21:04):
And all of womanhood, I appreciate your input. Not.
Allison Carpio (21:08):
And my parents. Um, they they're immigrants from the Philippines. So like when they came here, they were very much under survival mode. And when you're in survival mode, you're like constantly working you're on this like endless hamster wheel. You're, you're always behind. Um, and you know, you all have this like fear of like losing everything of not having enough money or losing all your money, um, this, this severe like lack of control. Um, so, so that level of like overworking is something that I learned from my parents. And you know, when you hear the, the phrase like immigrants, we get the job done. Like that's where it comes from. And also like that, that served my parents generations and the generations before us. And we don't have to do that anymore. We don't have to keep doing that. We don't have to, um, stay in survival mode. We can move more towards a thriving mode. And I think that's where rest really plays a big piece in it is, you know, we have the luxury of rest now. So let's use it.
Angie Colee (22:08):
Yeah. Why, why waste that gift? It's a gift to be able to take that time and space to rest. So take it for those times that may be coming, that we can't predict where you are going to have to go back into survival mode and work your ass off these, these times that you take to rest and recharge and do things that you like to do. Go eat all the food, food reference number two. Um, it's going to make it so that the next hard time, which is inevitably coming, is going to be that much easier to survive because you've got all of this good experience as a buffer, I think.
Allison Carpio (22:46):
Yeah. And from a more creative standpoint, you know, when you, when you go to a restaurant, you know, a restaurant, a food stall, whatever, a lot of the times you could really feel, or you can taste rather the care, the love, the joy that, that the chef really put into that dish. And then there are times where we're like, this is very uninspired and I love this dish normally, but I don't know. There's something about this that doesn't taste, right? So, um, that's another way I look at it. It's like, you know, that rest is really helps you to create and, in, your, your fullest way and people notice.
Angie Colee (23:21):
You know, what's really interesting. I think you would love this story too, because, so I've been traveling recently and I've been sharing a lot of food pictures, which is, it's just a weird concept for me because I started taking food pictures. And then I was like, this is probably an annoying, like older millennial thing to do. I'm going to stop showing people my sandwiches. And then when I stopped taking pictures of the food, people started messaging me privately going, oh my God, where's the food we're living vicariously.
Allison Carpio (23:48):
What are you eating? We need to know
Angie Colee (23:50):
So I started taking pictures of food again, and sharing what, what I'm trying, what I'm learning in different areas as I'm traveling. And the other day in one of my masterminds, this con this question came up like, how are you finding the places? And I was like, and how are you finding these dishes too? And it was like, first of all, I just, when I went to New Orleans, which was the first stop on my journey, I had done like a ton of research. And I put together this list of all the things that I needed to do. And then when I got to Memphis, I just started asking people, what should I do? And if they fired off an idea, that sounded interesting to me. Like that was pretty much where I went the next day and it wound up and then I would meet somebody there that pointed me to this other place that I needed to go to. And it just kind of followed the trail to the interesting places. And then if I wound up at a restaurant, which first of all, you can smell. If it's a decent restaurant, when you walk in and it's just like layers of smells, you can tell it's going to be a good experience. I paid attention to the, the wait staff and the people at the bar and how much they loved to talk about the food. Because there, there were a couple of places that I've been to along the way where the food was, was okay. And I would ask the server. So what's your favorite thing to eat here? Like what should I not leave without trying? And they'd be like, Hm, everything's good. Yeah. That wasn't a really memorable experience, but then like just, uh, yeah, just last weekend I was in Asheville, North Carolina, and I went to this place called Sovereign Remedies. That was recommended by our mutual friend Rachel Mazza who is also a foodie.
Allison Carpio (25:17):
Yes. Yes. Trust her. Yes.
Angie Colee (25:20):
Always trust Rachel. Uh, and Allison's food recommendations are going to get you good food every time. I'm just telling you. So I'm sitting at the bar and I'm telling this bartender, okay, I'm undecided between two drinks. Which one would you choose personally? And then he just started describing each of the drinks in such a fascinating way. Like the undertones and the layers of the cocktails and stuff like that. And I was like, ah, damnit doesn't help at all. Now I want to try both. And he goes, okay, well then have this one first because the bright flavors in that one, and like, he created this whole experience for me because it was clear that he loved his job. Like he loves.
Allison Carpio (25:59):
I love that so much. And what I take away from that, other than first of all, I love how you did things the old fashioned way before the internet, like just asking people where to go. That's amazing. And it's also like when we write copy, when we create offers, for example, we get to write things that we want to and share it because we want to not because it's going to do, like, you don't really need a logical, rational reason to say something or write something or create something. You have to do it because you want to.
Angie Colee (26:33):
Yes. That's it it's been an interesting experience as I do this too. Cause I'm a hashtag digital nomad, whatever. Um, and I think a lot of people like mistake me for the influencer. Like when I say influencer, I'm talking about like the polished, every picture is perfect and staged, influencing
Allison Carpio (26:49):
Swipe up to get my meal plans, smash that subscribe button.
Angie Colee (26:53):
Yes. Always like in with the hair somehow always just like blowing in the breeze. And of course it, nobody can see me here as I'm playing with my own ponytail, but I was joking. People were like, tell us more about your adventures. And I'm like the adventures I'm having. I shared the rest of the time I'm working. What do you want from me? And they were like, I dunno, I just want a peek into your life. And I was like, all right, well you're tempting me. You're really tempting me to be like snapping a selfie while I'm doing the dishes, hashtag digital nomad life time to watch the other day. I fell down the stairs while trying to do my laundry digital nomad life.
Allison Carpio (27:27):
Yes. Yes. Gotta love that. I mean, when, you know, especially when you're abroad, there's always like, you know, currency slip ups, language barriers, things like that. Like hashtag digital nomad life, right?
Angie Colee (27:40):
Oh yes. I remember our time in Columbia. There was a time that I was, you guys had gone out before me, and then I was meeting up with you later. So I took a cab by myself and my garbled Spanish. I could not get the cabbie to understand what I was saying and where I was going. So I just got on my phone and flipped the maps to Spanish and had her navigate to him just held the phone up. See look what a wonderful time to be alive. We have the tech that will make a lot of these things easier for us. So don't make it harder on yourself than it has to be.
Allison Carpio (28:12):
Yes. I love that. And I just love that you're sharing things because you want to see. Share that sandwich girl share it. People wanna know.
Angie Colee (28:21):
Well, the funny thing about that was that my instinct was not to. My instinct was not to talk about trying to figure out where to put all my in, in my new Airbnb. My instinct was not to talk about these things, but people have been telling me I want to hear it. So I don't, I don't know. Like it's, it's kind of interesting how sometimes I think we can be a little bit shortsighted in terms of what is interesting about what other people find interesting about us. And we shift into that. Here's what I think people want to hear from me, mode of writing and creating versus here's what I want to talk about and what's actually going on.
Allison Carpio (28:57):
Yeah. And I think that really goes back to all of the shoulds because it's like, I shouldn't be sharing this. I really shouldn't. It's, you know, fill in the blank, whatever whatever's going to happen, if you do that. And, um, yeah. I just love that. I love that it's becoming more common for people to really unlearn that because that's a really huge shift that I'm seeing.
Angie Colee (29:23):
And it's interesting. I think it starts with surrounding yourself with the right kind of people who tell you, no, that's a great story. Please tell me, like they lean in and they kind of force you to share the story that you're not quite as comfortable sharing because, but after a little bit of practice telling the uncomfortable stories, it becomes a new normal. And then it's ok.
Allison Carpio (29:43):
I'm really glad you mentioned that because I think supportive spaces are so important. Understatement of the year, but so important. And I think I've, I've been in communities and groups, um, masterminds where it's very much like, um, a lot of shoulding, um, really low key, sometimes high key shoulding, and very much like there needs to be a reason behind it. There needs to be rationale. There needs to be logic or data or whatever. And that really, that really took the joy out of business. It really took the joy out of showing up out of writing copy out of creating videos, you name it like it was, it really took the joy out of that. So when I entered spaces and I really learned, like I could do things because I want to, and I could do things my own damn way. Like that was huge. That was so huge. And I just hope that people are, people are learning that, and that is a message that they're receiving as they're starting and are growing businesses
Angie Colee (30:42):
And like putting yourself out there and sharing this stuff, as you're learning it even, you don't even have to be an expert, but like, I've just learned a thing I'm going to go share it. You could be the person that reached a person at the right time with the right message that changes their entire life. You did that for me. I don't know if I've told you this story or not. I probably have, but we're going to go Storytime and to how Allison changed my live. Um, we were in a mastermind several years back and I was at the time I was stuck in this corporate job, like 12 to 14 hour days, miserable, commute, toxic. And I'm, I'm just trying to get them to brainstorm a way to get me out, which is great. I needed that outside perspective. I needed someone to tell me some people are better as employees, so I could go fuck you and decide to leave. Alison goes into her hot seat and she was talking about, you know, well, I plan on going to Spain next month. So I think I'm just going to let my job know that I'm going to be out. And if they don't want to work with me, I guess that's cool, but I'm going to be in Spain anyway. And my initial thought was, wait, you can do that. Like you can just walk into somebody's office and be like, this is what I'm going to do. Would you like to continue working together? Oh, okay. Well you're not. And I remember asking you about that and you being like, well, this is what I want to do. It's okay. If they don't want to continue to work with me, like, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go do it. And so like that opened, I, I joke about it when I've told this story to other people, that it was an alternate reality that I didn't even realize was like sitting right there next to me. I needed to see somebody saying that to even know that that was a possibility. And then afterwards, of course, I sat in my feelings a little bit and then I sank into that envy a little bit. And like she's over there free and traveling and probably making a lot more money than me. And then like has bosses that like her a lot more than mine like me. And then at some point I slapped myself out of it and was like, you know what, Nope, you want to travel. She knows how to travel. Go ask her. And then I got in touch with you. And I was like, okay. So how do you even, like, I don't even know where to start with international travel and working while you're traveling. Like, how do I do this? And then you invited me to go to Columbia and we all jumped off a mountain together, which was fantastic.
Allison Carpio (32:57):
Oh my goodness. Thank you for bringing us down memory lane. I want to remind us that was five years ago. That was five years ago. That's kind of, probably like now, cause it was in the summer. Right. So almost exactly five years ago. It's kind of crazy. And um, I'm happy to help. And also like, I just love that. I love that you, um, I love that you, I really love that you shared that and that you, um, you, you know, took that and was like, Ooh, how can I do this for myself? And I love that you made space for, you know, the, the heavy denser stuff that comes up too. Cause I, I get that. I totally get what you mean by like, you know, that compare and despair cycle that goes on when you, when you learn something new,
Angie Colee (33:55):
I love that. That's so snappy - compare and despair. Oh, I love that. Make, make that into a slogan or something like that. That's so much better than the like comparison is the thief of joy, which is the typical go-to but like compare and despair.
Allison Carpio (34:10):
Um, yeah, I learned, I, someone said that I can't remember who I wished I could attribute them, but anyway, I mean, I think it's, I mean, I'm just reminiscing at this point, like trying to pull a takeaway or there's so many, but I'm just like, oh man, that was so long ago. And like what fun in Columbia too? That was, that was good times.
Angie Colee (34:29):
It was good sometimes. And it's, you know, like if I had sunk into those feelings, they would have been incorrect. It's based on limited data. I had just met you that day when we walked into the mastermind. So I don't know anything about how much you're making or your relationship with your boss or your free time or anything. Like all of this is assumptions based on the struggles that I'm personally experiencing. It has nothing to do with reality. So when I don't even remember what snapped me out of it, but I remember that was my real, I think, first uncomfortable experience with just making it out. Here's the thing that I want. And I'm going to go to somebody who has the thing that I want and say, how did you get that? Could you help me and take a chance that you could say no, which is totally your right. Take a chance that you're going to help me. And I'm totally not going to understand. And I'm going to be overwhelmed or say, this is not possible and like shut down. But you know, I think it was great too, that we both mentioned kind of making room holding space for those negative feelings. Cause toxic positivity has a way of working its way into some entrepreneurial. Like you have to be happy all the time or you're not a hundred, but you're not winning or whatever. Look, I have a freakout timer guys. I don't know if you think I'm this like super confident ballbuster who never has anxiety fits, but no, I have like a 15 minute timer that I, It's meltdown time. 15 minutes and I'm going to freak out. This is going
Allison Carpio (35:50):
Wait you get to predict yours? I'm jealous. Mine just comes randomly.
Angie Colee (35:56):
Like I can feel it coming on. And I usually notice it in my, my shoulders first. Like they start to creep up towards my ears. And so when I start feeling that feeling and then I feel the thoughts start to race and I can't make space in between my thoughts. I'm like, all right, freak out timer. Here we go. Yeah. I'll even call a friend and be like, okay, I just need 15 minutes to freak out. And usually by the time that timer goes off, I've gotten it all off my chest and I can just move on, like instead of burying it and turning it into kind of a pressure cooker of shitty feelings, just able to let it go.
Allison Carpio (36:32):
The pressure cooker reference. And I agree like it's, it's really, um, it's I think toxic positivity is something we learn from a lot of the bros and boss babes to circle it back to them because you know, it's like, it's, it's another should, isn't it. It's like you should always be happy. You should be living your best life. You should, you know, ABC XYZ. So I love that. I love that. We're talking about making space for it and you know, accepting it that these are, I mean, the way I see is like they're a little waves, you know, like a wave of fear, a wave of anxiety, a way of sadness, a wave of anger is coming and some waves are bigger than others. And you know, it's just this temporary state that's just coming and going that we just, we could, we can look at and just observe the waves that are happening in the moment.
Angie Colee (37:19):
That's so, so great. We'd fight the feeling so often. And we feel like we have to be on all the time or perfect all the time or like, and I, to a certain extent, you know, I know that you have to maintain an image so that people trust you to be a professional. But to that effect, I say, you know, don't, don't show open wounds, show scars. So if you're going through something really heavy, I mean, by now I've talked about my breakup several times, but part of the impetus behind this massive journey that I'm doing was I had an unexpected breakup. I can talk about it without tears now, because I've done a lot of the processing, but not going to lie. When I got to New Orleans, somebody was like, Hey, share more of your adventures. And I was like, so the last two weeks, I'm pretty sure I just melted into the couch. I became one with the couch and I watched a lot of Netflix and there was no difference.
Allison Carpio (38:09):
Like, yeah, that's what you needed.
Angie Colee (38:12):
It happens. Just don't stay there. You know, don't fight it, but don't stay there.
Allison Carpio (38:18):
Yeah. And I, I love that. And I go back to the idea of creating from different places. Like there are times where I know I have created from a place of resentment or a place from, um, even to say trauma trauma could be that pain or that sadness kind of thing. So, um, I think that's another way I see it as like, are we creating from a place of, um, wanting to serve, wanting to help joy, love, whatever that is. Um, anger even I think anger is okay when it's not resentment. So, um, I like to catch myself when I am writing something or creating a video or whatever. And I'm, I am deep in that resentment or I'm deep in that trauma and I take step back and I'm like, wait, let's let this marinate a little bit. Let's let this sit. Maybe we'll come back to it later. Or maybe it won't even see the light of day because in my opinion, I don't want to be adding that more into the world and the internet.
Angie Colee (39:19):
Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's a really smart thing. Like there's, you can be authentic in a way that's not unhinged,
Allison Carpio (39:27):
Not bland. Not that, not that boil chicken in with a sprinkle of salt and pepper, you know, we want the juicy chicken. We want the golden brown delicious.
Angie Colee (39:35):
Okay. I've found so many good, hot chicken places that you're going to love. I have a list of them all and we're going to hit them all at some point. But like, look, there's a difference between being authentic and being completely unglued and just like saying whatever you think that pops into your mind with no filter and no extra thought whatsoever. Like, I dunno, I can't. I feel like I heard it somewhere where somebody talks about the first thought that pops into your mind is usually society. It's usually the stuff that we've been conditioned to think like, oh, that skinny chick needs a sandwich. Oh, that guy is like too loud and you know, needs a hobby or something. It's usually a judgment. That's been kind of programmed into it. And then the thought that pops up after that is usually our authentic reaction. So like if you're operating from that top level space of saying whatever pops into your mind with no filter, I think that's, that's unhinged territory that is people wonder, like, what is that? What is going on over there? I can't get a sense of who this person is because they're always so reactive. Whereas if you wait for that second for the real you to pop in and react to something, I've had that reaction before where I looked at somebody that was rather slender and was like, that person needs a sandwich. Nope. I don't know that person's story. That person is perfectly fine with or without a sandwich. Uh, I don't know why I even had that thought, hope you have a nice day.
Allison Carpio (40:59):
And I love that you, you talked about judgment. Cause that, that for me was really clarifying. It's like, oh, is that, is that a judgment that I am making? And so, um, when I am talking about like creating from a place of blank, we don't want to be creating from a place of judgment. And there's a difference between feeling like, like you're, there's resentment and judgment, and then you're feeling more grounded and, you know, wanting to share something even when, even when you're feeling grounded and angry or grounded and sad or grounded and joyful. So I, I totally get that and you know, judgements come so quickly. And if we acted on all of our initial reactions, then Ooh, who know, who knows, who knows what life for the world would look like.
Angie Colee (41:43):
The image that just popped into my head was too scary to describe.
Allison Carpio (41:49):
We'll leave that there, we'll leave that there.
Angie Colee (41:52):
But the God I can, that's so true because I could imagine writing or creating something and then feeling resentful of people at the same time and how you would inadvertently just piss people off or really just defensive is such like a relative hot, but in terms these days, but like you could say something that you don't mean that causes an offense just by that state of mind. Like not being able to recognize the impulse thought versus the real thought.
Allison Carpio (42:23):
Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is like, when, when we're really visible, it's it could happen. It's bound to happen. I might do it again. Who knows? I did it a lot in the past year. Um, and you know, I've learned a lot from it, but you know, like with sometimes like, you know, we're just going to be in those spaces. And I think it's just, it's, it's such a, it's such a service to ourselves and our people, when, you know, we can catch ourselves in that resentment, in that judgment, in that, you know, whatever the place we, we want to actually show up in and, and, and create from that place instead, because that's when that's, when we feel really aligned with what we're doing, that's when we'll want to show up even more. And we, we're just having fun with our business. That's what it's about.
Angie Colee (43:10):
Heaven forbid you build something that gives you space and lets you have a lot of fun, like instead of the old notions of work yourself into an early grave.
Allison Carpio (43:19):
Yeah. I know just a quick anecdote on that. I, um, I have a coaching clients, um, for one of my businesses and we were going through a pricing. Um, and she, she said that she wanted to charge a little bit less because this is fun for her. So there was like a little bit of that guilt. Like I shouldn't be charging because this is fun for me. I can only charge, you know, thriving prices when I, when I don't enjoy it or when it's really, really hard work for me or I've grounded myself to the bone. And um, and we really had to unpack that because you know, that's not, that's not what we have to do. We don't have to subscribe to that.
Angie Colee (43:59):
Yes. Oh God. When we have strong feelings, they get a logical in a hurry. Like I was telling one of my friends and you would appreciate this too. Cause you've heard like the whole ugly behind the scenes of my breakup. You were thank you for being there for me when my life fell apart.
Allison Carpio (44:12):
Always there for you.
Angie Colee (44:15):
I was driving from Asheville to Atlanta, doing my best to ignore a yowling cat. She sang the song of her people, the entire drive. And for some reason, the thought popped into my head that maybe my last relationship with my ex was so easy because he never really loved me to begin with. And so I started talking to a friend like I can't shake this thought and the friend reflected it back to me in a way that showed me kind of the nonsense there. So your ex treated you with kindness and respect and made you feel loved and wanted desire because he didn't like you and all your exes before that treated you like shit because they did love you. What is going on in your head right now? And I was like sometimes just saying it out loud when you've got that, like your client coming to you and saying, I don't think I should the should and the shame. I don't think I should be doing this because it's too much fun. You gotta get those shoulds out into the light, like shine a light on the shame and it's not going to have quite as much power over you.
Allison Carpio (45:18):
Yes. Yes. I love that big fan of talking it out too. Even sometimes saying in the mirror.
Angie Colee (45:27):
Yeah. Cause like that thought just it stuck in my brain and it just kept looping there and getting bigger with every loop until I said it out loud to someone and then was like, okay, well that doesn't make any damn sense. Why, why am I getting so worked up over this thought that literally is not logical at all.
Allison Carpio (45:45):
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's, that's the thing is it's not logical.
Angie Colee (45:50):
It's emotional.
Allison Carpio (45:51):
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I'm in full support of speaking things out. I know I'm a person who needs to speak or just talk through things. So like for example, when I'm writing copy, I just talking to a transcription thing and then I edit it like people think, oh, she's probably sitting there for like hours and then just like typing away. It's like, no, it's not what it's like at all. I'm more of an external processor and it is what it is.
Angie Colee (46:20):
Perfect example of not making it harder than it has to be. Like, just because everybody's image in society of a writer is this like starving artist. That's trapped at a keyboard for hours and you're like 15 minutes sales letter transcribe. It doesn't have to be hard if you like, it doesn't mean it's going to be easy, but you don't have to overcomplicate the shit out of things to have a business that you love that lets you have fun and rest.
Allison Carpio (46:45):
Yeah. Yeah. And just really, really doing things with ease, um, whatever, whatever that looks like and everyone everyone's different. So, you know, when a lot of the copy bros and copy boss babes are like, you need to wake up every morning at 5:00 AM to write for three hours, say no, no, your energy is different throughout the day. Everyone's different. If you're like me and your energy just comes and goes throughout the day, you can't really schedule anything so consistent. It just doesn't work that way. So I think really just knowing what, when I, when I learned about how I work and you know, what really, um, what really lights me up and you know, how my energy works, it's just, it's, it's taken off a lot of that pressure and it makes things feel, um, I, it just, I tend to flow easier. Like words flow easier or, um, business feels just more fun. I keep saying that and I think fun is still underrated in business. You know, things can be joyful because of that.
Angie Colee (47:48):
The first time I wound up in a mastermind and I think it was like a fancy, like a Ritz Carlton or something like that. So I, first of all had this like poor girl grown up for imposter syndrome. Like I'm in a Ritz Carlton talking business with people, what the fuck is happening right now? I don't even understand how is this life. Um, but then afterwards, when I started connecting with people and getting to know them, and then they invited me to like the lounge area and we're all going to play a game and we wound up playing this rauncy game called Preferences. And I just remember at one point during the game, uh, you know, I can't even begin to describe Preferences, go look it up. You'll find it. It's very fun. Uh, but we're playing this game. I'm learning a lot about my colleagues that I didn't necessarily even want to know, but it's hilarious. We're all enjoying a drink. And I remember the thought popping up into my head. This is business. I like this. This is fun. And sure enough, like even though we all got drunk and we said, ridiculous shit, and we're playing this stupid game in a, in a hotel lounge, uh, a couple of days later, people were calling me going like, Hey, I had fun at the bar the other day. So I have a project I want to talk to you about. And I was like, wait, did I just do business by getting drunk in a bar? Like, not that I'm advocating, getting drunk in a bar guys don't misread me. But like, that was my idea of fun at the time and fun led to business. And that was just like a, what can I do more of this please? Like, I just want to like eat and drink and play games with people and then do business.
Allison Carpio (49:10):
Yes. Oh, I love that light bulb moment because it's so much like, I mean, what you could have done was been like talking all about business, you know, throughout the night, but it was just all about, you know, hanging out and having fun.
Angie Colee (49:22):
Yeah. And business came up from time to time and then we would wander into the next thing that one of us is passionate about or like, oh my God, this winehave you tried this one? Um, let's go get some food. I have the munchies follow the conversation, wherever it went and had fun with it. And then the business came as a result of the relationship and the authenticity that we had just connecting as people.
Allison Carpio (49:43):
Yes. Um, you're making me miss events now.
Angie Colee (49:47):
I miss them too particular events, not the like 50,000 people in crammed into one space. And you can't hear yourself think events. That's a little bit overwhelming for me, but like one to 200 people, plenty of time for me to go nap. That's my jam also around the food. Yes.
Allison Carpio (50:05):
Naps and food. That's that's really, what events are about, isn't it?
Angie Colee (50:09):
If you're wondering where I am napping or getting food, that's pretty much a guarantee so much fun. I think we're going to have to do a follow-up episode just to talk about whatever, all the food I don't care. Um, we didn't even get in a nineties pop reference in! Damnit. Next time.
Allison Carpio (50:28):
Um, don't worry. It'll come to us. It'll come in the show notes. I'm sure. We'll see. Maybe in the IG caption, we'll see.
Angie Colee (50:34):
We'll have a theme song going forward, but uh, tell us a little bit more about where to learn about what you and the work you're doing.
Allison Carpio (50:39):
Yeah. See, you can go to theconversionkitchen.com. It's where I cook up some delicious copy or help you cook up delicious copy. Let's just copy plenty of food metaphors. There are plenty, plenty, plenty. Um, they're all over the place. And I'm also on Instagram at instagram.com/allisoncarpio and, um, put it in the show notes, how to spell my name. Uh, I did the, how many of me.com am in the United States? There are, I think three Allison Carpios in the United States spelled the way mine is. So I get my own handles for all the things, but yeah. So find me on IG. Um, you know, on theconversionkitchen.com, I have a free training where I break down some welcome sequence copy. I call it the Be Our Guest Welcome Sequence. Cause it really comes from that place of service. I know you're singing already in your head. You want to burst out the song. I could see it on your face and that's okay.
Angie Colee (51:33):
Disney. That was from zero to Disney.
Allison Carpio (51:38):
Yeah, I see. You can, you can grab, or you can download that training on my website and you'll join my email list and I would love to have you on my email list as well.
Angie Colee (51:46):
Awesome. Thank you so much again for being on the show and I will talk to you soon. Thank you. So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permissiontokickass.com. That is all one word together, permissiontokickass.com. Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.