Freakonomics co-author Steve Levitt tracks down other high achievers for surprising, revealing conversations about their lives and obsessions. Join Levitt as he goes through the most interesting midlife crisis you’ve ever heard — and learn how a renegade sheriff is transforming Chicago's jail, how a biologist is finding the secrets of evolution in the Arctic tundra, and how a trivia champion memorized 160,000 flashcards.
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Suleika Jaouad was diagnosed with cancer at 22. She made her illness the subject of a New York Times column and a memoir, Between Two Kingdoms. She and Steve talk about what it means to live with a potentially fatal illness, how to talk to people who've gone through a tragedy, and ways to encourage medical donations. SOURCES: Suleika Jaouad , author. RESOURCES: The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life , by Suleika Jaouad (2025). The Alchemy Journal , by Suleika Jaouad (2025)...
Physicist and former pop star Brian Cox tells Steve about discovering the Higgs boson, having a number-one hit, and why particle physics research will almost certainly not create a black hole that destroys all life on earth. SOURCES: Brian Cox , physicist at the University of Manchester. RESOURCES: Black Holes: The Key to Understanding the Universe , by Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw (2023). " Higgs10: The Higgs boson and the rise of the Standard Model of Particle Physics in the 1970s ," by John Ell...
This episode delves into the fascinating world of cuneiform with British Museum curator Irving Finkel, exploring its origins as the oldest writing system and the dramatic decipherment of ancient flood narratives. Finkel shares his personal discovery of a tablet detailing a "round ark" that predates the biblical Noah's Ark by centuries, discussing its implications and a project to reconstruct it. The episode concludes with a heartfelt tribute to the late Jane Goodall, reflecting on her groundbreaking work and her profound views on life and the adventure of death.
Moon Duchin is a math professor at the University of Chicago whose theoretical work has practical applications for voting and democracy. Why is striving for fair elections so difficult? SOURCES: Moon Duchin , professor of mathematics at Cornell University. RESOURCES: " Gerrymandering: The Origin Story ," by Neely Tucker ( Timeless: Stories from the Library of Congress, 2024). " Redistricting for Proportionality ," by Gabe Schoenbach and Moon Duchin ( The Forum, 2023). " The Atlas Of Redistrictin...
Frances Arnold pioneered the process of directed evolution — mimicking natural selection to create new enzymes that have changed everything from agriculture to laundry. SOURCES: Frances Arnold , professor of chemistry at the California Institute of Technology. RESOURCES: " Innovation by Evolution: Bringing New Chemistry to Life ," by Frances Arnold (Nobel Lecture, 2018). " Bacteria taught to bond carbon and silicon for the first time ," by Aviva Rutkin ( New Scientist , 2016). " Directed evoluti...
Steven Pinker’s new book argues that all our relationships depend on shared assumptions and “recursive mentalizing” — our constant efforts to understand what other people are thinking. He and Steve talk about the psychology of eye contact, the particular value of Super Bowl ads, and what it’s like to get cancelled. SOURCES: Steven Pinker , professor of psychology at Harvard University. RESOURCES: When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows , by Steven Pinker (2025). " Why I Left Harvard ," by Carole...
The Power of Habit author Charles Duhigg wrote his new book in an attempt to learn how to communicate better. Steve shares how the book helped him understand his own conversational weaknesses. SOURCES: Charles Duhigg , journalist and author. RESOURCES: Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection , by Charles Duhigg (2024). " 2023 Word of the Year Is 'Enshittification ,'" by the American Dialect Association (2024). " When Someone You Love Is Upset, Ask This One Question ,"...
Seth Berkley used to run the world's largest vaccine funding organization. He and Steve talk about the incredible value of vaccines, the economics of immunizing the developing world, and the current attacks on public health. SOURCES: Seth Berkley , epidemiologist at Brown University School of Public Health. RESOURCES: " Trump Administration Ends Program Critical to Search for an H.I.V. Vaccine ," by Apoorva Mandavilli (New York Times, 2025). Fair Doses: An Insider's Story of the Pandemic and the...
Stefanie Stantcheva’s approach seemed like career suicide. In fact, it won her the John Bates Clark Medal. She talks to fellow winner Steve Levitt about why she uses methods that most of the profession dismisses — and what she’s found that can’t be learned any other way. SOURCES: Stefanie Stantcheva , professor of political economy at Harvard University. RESOURCES: " Understanding Economic Behavior Using Open-ended Survey Data ," by Ingar Haaland, Christopher Roth, Stefanie Stantcheva, and Johan...
From recording some of the first rap hits to revitalizing Johnny Cash's career, the legendary producer has had an extraordinary creative life. In this episode he talks about his new book and his art-making process — and helps Steve get in touch with his own artistic side. SOURCES: Rick Rubin , music producer and record executive. RESOURCES: The Creative Act: A Way of Being , by Rick Rubin (2023). “ How Google’s AlphaGo Beat a Go World Champion ,” by Christopher Moyer ( The Atlantic, 2016). “ DMC...
More than two decades ago, Adam Riess’s Nobel Prize-winning work fundamentally changed our understanding of the universe. His new work is reshaping cosmology for a second time. RESOURCES: Adam Riess , astrophysicist at Johns Hopkins University. SOURCES: " The Nobel Prize Winner Who Thinks We Have the Universe All Wrong ," by Ross Andersen (The Atlantic, 2025). " The answer to life, the universe and everything might be 73. Or 67 ," by Hannah Devlin (The Guardian, 2018). " Adam G. Riess Nobel Priz...
Uri Simonsohn is a behavioral science professor who wants to improve standards in his field — so he’s made a sideline of investigating fraudulent academic research. He tells Steve Levitt, who's spent plenty of time rooting out cheaters in other fields, how he does it. SOURCES: Uri Simonsohn , professor of behavioral science at Esade Business School. RESOURCES: " Gino v. President and Fellows of Harvard College ," (Court Listener, 2025). " Statement from Dan Ariely ," (2024). " Data Falsificada (...
Former U.S. Secretary of Education, 3x3 basketball champion, and leader of an anti-gun violence organization are all on Arne’s resume. He’s also Steve’s neighbor. The two talk about teachers caught cheating in Chicago public schools and Steve shares a story he’s never told Arne, about a defining moment in the educator’s life. SOURCES: Arne Duncan , the 9th U.S. Secretary of Education; founder of C.R.E.D.; former head of Chicago Public Schools; and former professional basketball player. RESOURCES...
Kate Marvel spends her days playing with climate models, which she says are “like a very expensive version of The Sims .” As a physicist she gets tired of being asked to weigh in on economics, geopolitics, and despair — but she still defends the right of scientists to have strong feelings about the planet. SOURCES: Kate Marvel , climate scientist and science writer. RESOURCES: Human Nature: Nine Ways to Feel About Our Changing Planet , by Kate Marvel (2025). " Are Americans Concerned About Globa...
Twenty years ago, before the Freakonomics book tour, Bill McGowan taught Steve Levitt to speak in public. In his new book he tries to teach everyone else. SOURCES: Bill McGowan , founder and C.E.O. of Clarity Media Group. RESOURCES: Speak, Memorably: The Art of Captivating an Audience , by Bill McGowan (2025). " Sheryl Sandberg Gives UC Berkeley Commencement Keynote Speech ," (UC Berkeley, 2016). " Our failing schools. Enough is enough! " by Geoffrey Canada (TED, 2013). EXTRAS: " The Power of a ...
Former professional poker player Annie Duke wrote a book about Steve’s favorite subject: quitting. They talk about why quitting is so hard, how to do it sooner, and why we feel shame when we do something that’s good for us. SOURCES: Annie Duke , author and former professional poker player. RESOURCES: Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away , by Annie Duke (2022). " Heads or Tails: The Impact of a Coin Toss on Major Life Decisions and Subsequent Happiness ," by Steven Levitt ( NBER Working P...
Psychologist David Yeager thinks the conventional wisdom for how to motivate young people is all wrong. His model for helping kids cope with stress is required reading at Steve’s new high school. SOURCES: David Yeager , professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. RESOURCES: 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People: A Groundbreaking Approach to Leading the Next Generation―And Making Your Own Life Easier , by David Yeager (2024). " A synergistic mindsets intervention prot...
She’s a botanist, a member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation, and the author of the bestselling Braiding Sweetgrass . In her new book she criticizes the market economy — but she and Steve find a surprising amount of common ground. SOURCES: Robin Wall Kimmerer , botanist and founder and director of the Center for Native Peoples and the Environment. RESOURCES: The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World , by Robin Wall Kimmerer (2024). Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Sc...
Palliative physician B.J. Miller asks: Is there a better way to think about dying? And can death be beautiful? SOURCES: B.J. Miller , palliative-care physician and President at Mettle Health. RESOURCES: A Beginner’s Guide to the End: Practical Advice for Living Life and Facing Death , by Shoshana Berger and B.J. Miller and (2019). “ After A Freak Accident, A Doctor Finds Insight Into ‘Living Life And Facing Death ,'” by Fresh Air (W.Y.P.R., 2019). “ Dying In A Hospital Means More Procedures, Tes...
Historian Tom Holland narrowly escaped a career writing vampire novels to become the co-host of the wildly popular podcast The Rest Is History . At Steve’s request, he compares President Trump and Julius Caesar and explains why the culture wars are arguments about Christian theology. SOURCES: Tom Holland , historian and host of The Rest is History . RESOURCES: Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World , by Tom Holland (2019). Rubicon , by Tom Holland (2005). EXTRAS: Unforgiving Pla...
John Green returns to the show to talk about tuberculosis — a disease that kills more than a million people a year. Steve has an idea for a new way to get treatment to those in need. SOURCES: John Green , best-selling author and YouTube creator. RESOURCES: Everything Is Tuberculosis: The History and Persistence of Our Deadliest Infection , by John Green (2025). " The Deadliest Infectious Disease Isn’t a Science Problem. It’s a Money Problem ," by John Green ( The Washington Post , 2024). " The D...
Abraham Verghese is a physician and a best-selling author — in that order, he says. He explains the difference between curing and healing, and tells Steve why doctors should spend more time with patients and less with electronic health records. SOURCES: Abraham Verghese , professor of medicine at Stanford University and best-selling novelist. RESOURCES: The Covenant of Water , by Abraham Verghese (2023). “ Abraham Verghese’s Sweeping New Fable of Family and Medicine ,” by Andrew Solomon ( The Ne...
Jens Ludwig has an idea for how to fix America’s gun violence problem — and it starts by rejecting conventional wisdom from both sides of the political aisle. SOURCES: Jens Ludwig , professor of economics at the University of Chicago and director of the University of Chicago Crime Lab. RESOURCES: Unforgiving Places: The Unexpected Origins of American Gun Violence , by Jens Ludwig (2025). " Scope Challenges to Social Impact ," by Monica Bhatt, Jonathan Guryan, Jens Ludwig, and Anuj Shah (National...
Ellen Wiebe is a physician who helps seriously ill patients end their lives in Canada, where assisted suicide is legal. Is death a human right? SOURCES: Ellen Wiebe , clinical professor of medicine at the University of British Columbia. RESOURCES: " The Last Decision by the World’s Leading Thinker on Decisions ," by Jason Zweig ( The Wall Street Journal , 2025). " Most Americans Favor Legal Euthanasia ," by Rachael Yi ( Gallup , 2024). Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers . " Med...
He has been a lawyer, an instructor at the F.B.I. Academy, the owner of a frozen-yogurt chain, and a winner of the TV show Survivor . Today, Kwon works at Google, but things haven’t always come easily for him. Steve Levitt talks to Kwon about his debilitating childhood anxieties, his compulsion to choose the hardest path in life, and how Kwon used game theory to stage a victory on Survivor . SOURCES: Yul Kwon , vice president of product management at Google. RESOURCES: Teacher Application for AS...
Ken Goldberg is at the forefront of robotics — which means he tries to teach machines to do things humans find trivial. SOURCES: Ken Goldberg , professor of industrial engineering and operations research at U.C. Berkeley. RESOURCES: " The Bitter Lesson, " by Rich Sutton (UT Austin, 2019). R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots): A Fantastic Melodrama in Three Acts and an Epilogue , by Karel Capek (2019). " The Robot in the Cloud: A Conversation With Ken Goldberg ," by Quentin Hardy (New York Times, 2...
Suzanne O'Sullivan is a neurologist who sees many patients with psychosomatic disorders. Their symptoms may be psychological in origin, but their pain is real and physical — and the way we practice medicine, she argues, is making those and other health problems worse. SOURCES: Suzanne O'Sullivan , neurologist and author of The Age of Diagnosis How Our Obsession with Medical Labels Is Making Us Sicker. RESOURCES: The Age of Diagnosis: How Our Obsession with Medical Labels Is Making Us Sicker , by...
Reginald Dwayne Betts spent more than eight years in prison. Today he's a Yale Law graduate, a MacArthur Fellow, and a poet. His nonprofit works to build libraries in prisons so that more incarcerated people can find hope. SOURCES: Reginald Dwayne Betts , founder and director of Freedom Reads, award-winning poet, and lawyer. RESOURCES: Doggerel: Poems , by Reginald Dwayne Betts (2025). “ The Poet Writing on Prison Underwear ,” by Adam Iscoe ( The New Yorker, 2023). The Voltage Effect , by John L...
Chemist Jack Szostak wants to understand how the first life forms came into being on Earth. He and Steve discuss the danger of "mirror bacteria," the origin of biology in poisonous chemicals, and the possibility that life might exist on other planets too. SOURCES: Jack Szostak, Nobel laureate and professor of chemistry at The University of Chicago. RESOURCES: Is Earth Exceptional?: The Quest for Cosmic Life, by Mario Livio and Jack Szostak (2024) " Q&A: How ‘Mirror Bacteria’ Could Take a Dev...
Owen Flanagan's newest book details his 20-year dependence on alcohol and pills — and outlines his research on what addiction can tell us about the nature of consciousness. SOURCES: Owen Flanagan, philosopher, neurobiologist, and professor emeritus at Duke University. RESOURCES: What Is It Like to Be an Addict?: Understanding Substance Abuse, by Owen Flanagan (2025). Consciousness Reconsidered, by Owen Flanagan (1993). Against Happiness, by Owen Flanagan, Joseph E. LeDoux, Bobby Bingle, Daniel M...
