Pro-Audio Careers

Welcome to the Sound On Sound People and Music Industry podcast channel. In this episode, Paul Mack talks to Richard Weir, who runs specialist audio industry recruitment agency Interfacio. We'll be finding out about the different career opportunities that are available in the audio industry, and how you can take advantage of them. Thanks very much, Richard. Could you introduce yourself and your company? Okay, so my name is Richard Weir. I've been managing interface here since 2002, which I set up after spending 16 years in sales and marketing. and general management in the audio and music technology products field. Um, we set out to provide a specialist recruitment service for the audio media technology industry. Our focus is still mainly audio, but we, we've sort of branched out organically and naturally, and we do quite a bit of work in lighting in some music technology fields, but also in broadcast. And we provide a sort of industry. Informed expert recruitment and executive search service mostly for manufacturers, although we do work for other companies and organizations in the industry, we sometimes would work for a distributor or an integrator or even a production company, but the majority of what we do is working for manufacturers, recruiting a variety of roles from technical commercial. Business orientated, um, entry level and very senior level. What do you see as growth areas in pro audio and music tech? Well, I mean, this, this has become a bit of a sort of favorite topic, I think, for a couple of years now, instinctively, the reaction is, you know, live and live events is hot and is busy and is has got a lot of investment and there's a lot of growth intrinsically through what manufacturers and other production related companies are doing in that area, but the other areas that are hugely Growing and successful, profitable and getting a lot of investment are integrated. A V commercial A V hospitality, probably whereby and across retail, where there's a lot of up specking of. The audio visual experience from a consumer point of view so whether it's in hotels whether it's in shopping malls whether it's in offices there's just such a lot of advanced technology now going in that relates to audio video and control so those are the what i what we see is the busy areas of the industry. Busy areas of the industry are what traditionally would have been thought of as the center ground of pro audio and music tech, which is music production and recording, which is, of course, still going on. But a lot of it's been seems to have been. Commoditized either at a service level or a product level. Um, so that from a actual, the economics and the, and the, and the sort of the business ecosystem, there's less of it going around. So from a recruiting point of view, um, there's not as much activity there as there is on those other categories we talked about at the beginning. What do you look for in job candidates? So what makes it easiest for you to sell people into the jobs in this industry? Yeah, it's a very good question. And of course, there's a few different angles. In terms of an answer i mean one which is super obvious but probably worth saying is i look for people's ability to write. Um, it's amazing how many people can't write well, and I say of myself, and I think this is still true, the single skill that I learned at school that's been of most value to me in my working life and career was being taught how to write. Um, probably above and beyond taught how to add up, you know, although, you know, numeracy is important, you can do a lot without being a particular, you know, specialist when it comes to numbers or maths or financials. But if you can't write well, it's going to hold you back in almost anything you do. So that's one thing. Secondly, again, it's probably a little bit trite, but it's true. Of course, you do spot and look at and take an interest in particularly what young people have done of their own volition outside of the normal school academic track. So, Looking like they've taken initiative to learn, do some things, have some outside interest, or getting work experience in another context. That's all. Of great value, but if I was talking to a, to a room full of people and advising on cvs, and I, and I do, do this, I would say the one thing to include and get right in your CV is what we would call a profile paragraph, which some people would call a summary and some people might refer to as an an objective statement, but it's not quite the same thing. What's really amazing is I, I reviewed probably 25 CVs yesterday for two internal positions that we're recruiting for here. And I commented to Nicole, my office manager at the end, only three of those CV applications that came from job boards came with a cover letter. You know, the job board presents the option, you know, put your cover letter here. Almost everyone takes the standard default cover letter sentence that the website generates and doesn't say anything. They don't say anything themselves. And then the other part is probably 50 percent of the CVS. And this is general, not just with respect to these CVS. I looked at yesterday, don't include a good. Or any profile at all they they have name and address and they start off with a list of jobs or they start off with some education there's nothing at the top that says this is who I am this is what I do this is what I want to do and this is where I'm headed you know and that profile which should be you know three or four lines if it's real well written you cv because that's what gets the attention of the person who's. Reading it, this person can write, they've got an idea about who they are, they can communicate that in a few sentences, and it's interesting to me, and they sound like they're on a mission with a vision of what they want to do, and if you can get that into a CV, that's the one thing to concentrate on. Interestingly went straight for writing and CV presentation and that kind of thing. Rather than straight for academic achievement, I did an engineering degree from a fairly good university. I went to work for small British privately owned audio manufacturing and sales company. And I was probably the first person they'd employed that had a degree. So, you know, I've always been relatively. Skeptical about the value of a degree in our industry. Of course, back then there weren't a plethora of courses called music technology courses, which there are now there's a lot more people going to university than there were in 1986 when I graduated. But I think the formal academic qualifications and educational training are usually trumped still in our industry by the practical experience and the passion and the enthusiasm for. And there's a good example there, which is that we recruit a lot of R and D engineers into audio technology companies or music technology companies. Some of them are specialists and what I mean by that is they have a particular personal reason why audio and music tech is interesting and they're the ones that tend to be more attractive to the employers because frankly, the employers know that they're more likely to keep them because if they're just. Engineers doing a technical R and D role, which could be a firmware engineer or embedded engineer. They'll get more money in a more profitable industry, you know, whether it's in, you know, gaming or it or automotive than they will in music tech and audio. But if they've got something about them, which says this is why they're looking to work in audio and music tech, that's a bit more compelling from an employer. So of course. Qualifications count and perhaps I'm of a generation where I'm cynical, which is that, you know, the value of the degree has been greatly diminished in the last 15, 20 years. So if you'd asked me 20 years ago, do I want to look at graduates for a reason? I would say yes, I still like the idea of looking at graduates, but I'm fairly skeptical about a lot of what. Graduates have done from a qualification or even a caliber of education point of view, because, you know, the real value is about learning how to, you know, research, analyze, communicate. Right i suppose those are the pieces that you're really looking for i was not taught but i when i was twenty nine years old managing an audio business my boss then and i talked about the fact that he'd read an article in the sunday times and it said there are three things to look for in an employee a good employee and they are. Enthusiasm, intelligence, and stability. And we had a conversation over a coffee on a Monday morning about this article. And I've never forgotten it because I've thought it's still true. If you can find that in someone, you know, whether they finish their degree, whether they didn't finish their degree, whether they got, you know, three A stars at A levels, or they left school at 16 and went to, you know, a college to do something completely different, or didn't go and went straight into work. If they've got those three things, they will be immensely valuable as an employee. And they will probably contribute. Wherever they go, but if they haven't got one of those three things, they will struggle. I think anybody can be a valuable employee, the piece that makes them valuable is not what they study, it's their attitude and their general competencies around sort of intellectual behavior, I suppose. So, I think that's, that's my perspective. And I think our industry still buys passion and enthusiasm over. There's a feeling that a lot of the industry is made up of people who started off as wannabe musicians and ended up in technical roles. People who've started with a shared creative experience rather than an academic one. Good careers seem to start with enthusiasm and an interest in audio and music. Certainly, and certainly the heart of the music and audio production business does. I mean, the interesting bit which we might be getting onto is that so much of those hot, busy areas now where the audio manufacturers are now investing a lot of their Energy in terms of product development in terms of marketing isn't really anything to do with music anymore you know look at great example sure. You know the most almost the most iconic audio brand there is you know with a with a product that still probably. You know an enormously significant part of its revenue is one microphone which most vocalists are seen using on stage all around the world but the biggest growth area their business is commercial systems. And if you look in their commercial systems business where they're selling conference systems, you know, audio, visual integrated control and conference systems, that's not really about music. It's about voice. It's about border corporate boardrooms. You know, it's about sound in business environments. So that thing where it all started out because people were interested in music and audio and you know, the failed musician, you know, music. Analogy i think i was a step before a failed musician i think i wasn't even trying to be a successful musician i wasn't i am a musician but i didn't go into this industry because it was music i went in because i had an interest around the technology of recording so i suppose i was obliquely interested in it because of my musical interest but the technology of recording combined with technology itself was the sort of the draw that took me into it but but um now you know you You don't need to be have any musical dimension to be skilled and interesting as an employee, um, to sell the area, sell product in the areas of the business that that's, that's growing and is being hugely invested in. And I know that your, your audience in sound on sound is much more, you know, still the traditional music technologist, bedroom, music producer, writer. Composer, DJ, um, but I suppose I'm perhaps seeing it as a wider ecosystem of audio and the areas of the business where the growth is. And it's certainly those other ones we talked about before which are less about music and audio and more about sound. There's a big range of music technology and audio production courses around. Are they helpful? Are they actually producing better candidates? I suppose the good academic institutes and the better courses Teach some really good things they teach you know not just technical knowledge or industry business knowledge but they teach about behaviors they teach about the basic. You know things of how to communicate how to be effective at work but actually you know do they teach you to be a rockstar probably not do they teach you to be you know a fantastic you know tech support person possibly not or a brilliant salesperson or a marketer you know. They give you an opportunity to gain knowledge in your area of sort of passion, which is music technology and production. But like I said, I think if someone has that in them already, they will gain that knowledge. I mean, I've met people on some of these courses, and I thought they're not really engaged. They're not really interested. It's not really a big passion of theirs. They're not going to come out the end of it and get an amazing job because it's not, you know, it's not. It's not in them in the first place. I remember talking to somebody. Fifteen or so years ago who was on a course, one of those courses and they lived in South Wales and obviously they've been put into this course because the parents wanted them to do something and they paid the fees and they were talking to me about, you know, what can I do when I come out? And I gave him some examples and they said, yeah, I don't really want to do that because that sounds like you'd have to work quite hard. I mean, it's probably compounded by the fact that the industry is still largely managed and owned by people like me, you know, old farts who have a different experience of education and academia and have the same sort of cynical view, which is that, you know, what's the value of a degree or a qualification in audio or music technology or production? What I want is someone who's got an instinct for it, who's got the. You know, the personality, the drive and the passion and the human behaviors to be interesting to me and to be successful. I'm not sure that's massively cynical. We can celebrate the fact that the industry values resourceful self starters. Yeah, I mean, let's, let's face it. There are two or three types of employer for someone who wants to get into the industry. The production side of things, you know, the creative environment, the production environment, and those roles are still rarely hired on, you know, academic qualifications. They're hired on, you know, luck or who, you know, or personality on. You might have to go work somewhere, not get paid for a year just to get your foot in the door. There are business roles and there are. Technical engineering roles the problem probably back then and still now of is is how to find qualified engineering talent you know people who can design product or write software that still highly degree qualification based um and certainly joe who works in our team and spends a hundred percent of our time focusing on research and development engineers doesn't generally work with complete entry level. Role requirements but occasionally does but it's certainly true that you know engineering qualifications a good science based degree a good engineering degree from a good school are absolutely recognized and valued you know we have a client in europe who will say to us they will reject candidates and CVS because they didn't go to the right. They didn't go to the school that was prestigious enough from a, from a science or a physics or an acoustic engineering, um, standpoint, um, most of our clients and employers are less fussy than that, but certainly when it comes to hiring R and D people. They need R& D qualifications, and I think the plethora of music technology courses have contributed to a blurring of the line and the definition between sort of creative production and science based engineering, because there are still really good proper engineering courses out there, but they're nothing to do with music and audio electronics, they're engineering degrees. So I suppose if there is an area where the qualification thing is key, it's engineering and design where it absolutely is, but more and more that the specialty qualifications are not being looked at as anything to do with lighting or audio music, their pure engineering or science disciplines where they have to have the. The academic rigor and the scientific rigor to be able to do the disciplined technical work, and that's probably true in acoustics as well, because, you know, the serious speaker companies are looking for acoustics, you know, qualifications and graduates. And that's, that's fairly high science. What do you think of the unsung roles or careers in the industry that people might not normally consider at graduate level? We probably take a lot of this for granted because it's the area we work in and it's also the area I've worked in sort of in my career, but you know, I mean, it's almost simple, simple enough to say anything to do working for, you know, manufacturers of products, you know, it's not just about going into out into the world and getting a job on stage, playing, getting paid to play or mix or make records. You know, if you love that stuff, you can be involved in selling it in designing it in marketing it. You know, talking to customers, um, developing products, um, it's hugely rewarding. Obviously, depending on what your motivations in life are, you know, you can go into a business and sales career, uh, and, you know, the opportunities there to, to do well from a financial point of view are good, but from a creative point of view, you can work with, with products. And be developing and designing and inventing the next generation of of music tech or audio product solutions and that's an amazingly a valuable and be rewarding. Career path um so so i would say the sort of the nirvana from an unsung opportunities point of view is the product manager is the product manager role which companies are always crying out for people who can. Effectively combine knowledge of application how to use product. With a bit of a technical knowledge about how products are made and invented combined with an understanding of who the customer is and how they bought and what the motivations are on the on the sales and marketing side to how they communicated about properly so that that that's an amazingly sort of valuable and rewarding. Career opportunity a common track into things like that is that the sort of technical support or the product specialist role where you might start working in a music shop but you might be able to then move into a role you work for manufacturer and you are the product specialist you're doing phone based support are you doing on site based support or not you might move you into a role where you're doing technical sales or. Move into marketing and product development and product management. So I would say those are lots of opportunities, which are exciting and engaging, but they're not performing every day on stage or getting paid to make records. You know, it's, it's that sort of line between the business end and the, and the, and the sort of industry end, if you like. But I think, I think not enough is understood and known about that. And we've had, we've talked in sessions at NAM and other, um, events about this, about, you know, just Just communicating about the sort of opportunities that exist on the on the music and audio product side of the business last what do you think is the most valuable knowledge assets at the moment the one skill that we in our team are constantly saying people need to have is you know. Whatever at whatever technical knowledge they themselves are proficient or comfortable but it's knowledge and understanding around networking. Networking is everywhere now you know it's in audio it's in music tech it's in AV you know and and and to try and look for a job whether you're 40 50 20 or 30 and not have any networking sort of cognizance is is increasingly going to be restrictive i think. Just because it's, it's, it's more and more at the heart of, of, of all technology. I mean, look at interoperability around avid and pro tools and how all that stuff works now. Look at how juice, you know, works. Look at how some of these new intelligent, you know, music production platforms are working and thinking, you know, it's all leveraging cloud, open source things talking to each other. So those, yeah. Areas of technical understanding and knowledge are probably the hot, you know, buzzwords for the next, you know, 10, 10 years plus until the thing that hasn't been invented yet comes along. Paul Mack was talking to Richard Weir of recruitment agency Interfacio. We hope you enjoyed the sound on sound podcast. Tune in for another episode very soon.