What is up you guys welcome to another edition of the fundamental health podcast I am so honored and grateful that you are joining me here if you are watching this on youtube you can see that I am in my new studio sort of i'm getting it all set up i've got the fundamental health banner over there a bunch of our beautiful supplements from heart and soil supplements and my favorite part of the studio so far which is a small reproduction of a banksy
And if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts or another media spot, which is hopefully not censorable, it is the Banksy work of someone whitewashing the cave at Lascaux. France and it's fascinating because there are these cave paintings in Lescaux that are just a real incredible window to what we were as humans in the past. There are animals and hunting and the fact that our ancestors
tens of thousands of years ago were seeking these animals and finding time to sort of commemorate them on the walls of the cave. And I love this. work by Banksy because for me it's such a good representation of the forgetting, which is the alternative or the opposite of the remembering. You guys have all heard me talk about the remembering, this idea that I really feel like as modernized humans we have forgotten.
where we've come from as humans, how we're supposed to live and all of the ways how we're supposed to interact with humans and communicate and be in nature and get dirt between our toes and swim in the ocean and rivers and be in the sun, sometimes naked, sometimes not, whatever. play, spend time with people we care about, and eat animals from nose to tail. And I am super excited about helping people really appreciate the way to remember that that is where we have come from.
As you all know, I'm super proud about what we do at Heart and Soil. This is the supplement company that I've built to help you all get more organs into your diet. I think this is a huge part of the remembering. Our food is a big... piece of what makes us healthy humans. Meat has been demonized and I think we are increasingly eating less meat and especially less organs and this has led to many health issues and a decline in our health overall. But organs are not that easy to eat.
They're hard to obtain. Their taste is weird. And so you can get them desiccated, which I think solves a lot of those problems, which is why I wanted to build Heart and Soil. So check us out, heartandsoil.co. We just released a new supplement, whole package, which is... something I'm super excited about. I have wanted this supplement for all of you guys out there. Since we built the company a year ago, it has testicle, the most testicle of any desiccated organ supplement on the market and blood.
and liver in it, and it's an amazing one. So check out whole package at heartandsoil.co. And we are all about helping you reclaim your birthright to radical health. That is something you were born with. You want to be a part of the remembering, not a part of the forgetting. So this week's podcast is with my friend Evan Brand. It was a really fun one. And Evan is amazing, as you'll hear in this podcast.
He's a really incredible nutritional therapy practitioner, works with a lot of patients, and we got into his experience working with people with a number of conditions, but especially mold. And mold toxicity is something I haven't dealt with on the podcast in the past. I didn't know who to have on to talk about mold, but I really appreciate Evan's balanced perspective about mold, mold toxicity, how to treat it, how to mitigate it.
One of the things that I like about being in Costa Rica when I'm here is that it's all open air. And as Evan says, the solution to pollution is dilution. So we are meant, part of the remembering is that we are meant to be outside and breathe. fresh air and i fear that we are all living in hermetically sealed buildings too often today and that is a cool thing so we talk about toxicity of mold how to
test for it, how to see it, symptoms, case studies he's worked with, and how to treat it. So check out this podcast with Evan Brand. I think you're going to love it. He's a wealth of resources and information. He's a really, really good human. I love this guy. And if you love this podcast, please leave me a review.
on Apple Podcasts, which is probably the preferred place that I like because it's not censorable. I think Spotify has taken down some, maybe censored some of my stuff. YouTube definitely censors my stuff from time to time. Listen to this podcast wherever you'd like, but if you leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, it really helps us move the needle and reach more people and help them understand that it's possible to live a full life, a radical life.
and be a part of this remembering. So as a thank you to all of you who leave me reviews on Apple Podcasts, I'm going to give away, I'm going to continue giving away, assign, copy my book one per month to someone who leaves me a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you guys for your support. Thank you also to my sponsors for their support. I've got a new farm that I want to tell you about this week. I love supporting.
grass-fed, grass-finished farms on this podcast. I haven't heard a lot of these farms do podcasting, and I think it's a great way for you guys to hear about places where you can order meat online. This is for Primal Pastures, which is a pretty amazing farm in Southern California. They were founded in 2012 around a family table between a couple of brothers and their father.
And the whole idea was that they wanted to pursue better health through diet for themselves and their family. They respect nature a lot. They're quick to acknowledge that nature is smarter than we are as humans, which I love that idea. It's also smarter than science, which is pretty crazy when you think about it. But I agree that most of the time we try to outsmart nature, we lose. Everything that they do at Primal Pastures is creating...
a natural habitat for the animals to thrive in, which is what I always talk about. Transparency is at the center of their values and business model. They don't have many confusing and misleading labels. All the animals are pasture-raised, grass-fed, grass-finished. and they do something called Beyond Organic, okay? All right. It's pretty incredible. So...
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I don't know why you want to drink that and more. So you can receive a free farm tour of Primal Pastures with every purchase using the code CarnivoreMD. If you don't live locally, it's transferable to anybody you know, but a lot of you guys are probably in Southern California.
And if you want to check these guys out, you can use my code and get a free farm tour from Primal Pastures, but check them out. Also want to give a shout out to... belcampo and many of you guys know there was a little bit of a kerfuffle at belcampo and they've admitted their mistakes here they kind of messed up there was some incorrect ordering at their Santa Monica location, but they did a full investigation here.
I spoke to them. They really were trying to own up to their mistakes and do the right thing. And I'm really proud of what they've done. They've instituted much more stringent guidelines about where they source from. All of the online meat was always regenerative, grass-fed and grass-finished. And they admitted that, hey, they messed up.
There were some oversights, but they still really have a great mission. I believe in their mission enormously. So check out belcampo.com. You can always use the code CarnivoreMD there for 15% off your purchase. Their meat is amazing.
And they are still the good guys, in my opinion. And they've shown us this. Everybody messes up. I think we have to offer everyone a second chance. I really appreciate the way they move through this. And I think it's an opportunity for them to grow as a business and for them to really. continue to advance the regenerative space. So check them out, belcampo.com. They're based in Northern California and you can get 15% off or 20% off.
with the code CarnivoreMD. They have amazing stuff. One of my favorites there is the Uruguayan ribeyes. You will not be sorry you check that out. Got to give a shout out to my friends at 8sleep. There are so many myths about good sleep that you need to sleep at a certain temperature, etc. But there's really no one universal sleep temperature to give you deep, high-quality sleep. But the sleep temperature changing throughout the night...
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All right, that's eightsleep.com slash carnivoremd. Check out the pod pro and save 150 bucks at checkout using the promo code carnivoremd. And last but not least, gotta give a shout out to my friends at... white oak pastures, the originals, the OGs in the regenerative agriculture space, doing amazing, amazing stuff in that space.
They've been regenerated for the last 20 plus years. It's 150 years in the family or 120. Jenny and Will are amazing people and they have grass-fed and grass-finished beef, lamb, goat. They have corn and soy-free chicken at my request for you guys. They have suet and organs and they do their own honey. It is fantastic. It's really, really good stuff.
and I love them. Check out whiteoakpastures.com. Use the code carnivoremd for 10% off your first order. All right, guys, on to the podcast. Love you all. Stay radical. And Brand, thanks for coming on the podcast, my friend. Hey, Dr. Paul, thanks for having me. You know, you and I did a podcast on your show a few weeks ago, and then we've been talking ever since. This issue of mold came up and I thought.
Ah, yes. I need to have you on my podcast to talk about mold and your experiences with mold, your work with patients who have mold toxicity. And this is something, honestly, that I haven't talked about on this podcast before and that I haven't. really gone down the rabbit hole in my own clinical practice because it's just been, it's a very complex rabbit hole as we'll see in this show. And the anecdote that I'll start the podcast with is that
I now live in Costa Rica. I'm recording this podcast from Austin, Texas, as I'm back here dealing with some computer issues, which may or may not be related to moisture. We'll get into that in the podcast as well. But I was telling you before we started recording that... A number of things that I own in Costa Rica have gotten moldy just from staying in the jungle. And my house is kind of up on a hill, a little bit less humid.
But the last few months I've been staying with a friend in the jungle and I had a pair of shoes just covered in mold and a pair of hiking boots just covered in mold. I haven't really had any symptoms because everything there is open air, which we'll talk about, but it's made me think.
think like there's a lot of mold around and is this a problem so let's just start off with I mean your story is a great place to start man and let's just start off with your story And we will kind of go down some rabbit holes from there because you've experienced a lot of this yourself.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, I think that's the best way to learn as a practitioner, right? As you get exposed to something, and then you get sick, and then you're forced to learn about it. Like, there's not many people, there's not many courses, there's not many practitioners teaching about mold and mycotoxins. It's sort of one of those things where
people just brush it off or they say oh molds everywhere just don't worry about it but my wife and I built a brand new house we were super pumped to move in we had acreage we backed up to 80 acres of forest it was just like our dream and then I started coming down I had an upstairs office I started coming downstairs and every day I was pale my wife would say honey your skin just doesn't look right and
then I would feel a little anxious. So I take my blood pressure, my blood pressure would be 150 over 100 for no reason. And then I'd lay on the couch, and then I'd get dizzy. And then I'd go to bed and start all over. And I texted a friend of mine named Jack Wolfson, who's a cardiologist. And I said, Jack, I'm waking up every day with these blood pressure spikes. And I'm dizzy. And he texts me back one word in all caps mold.
And I thought, Oh, shit. I thought there's no way this is a brand new house. This is impossible. I don't smell anything. I don't see anything must be somewhere else. It can't be here. So eventually I get some petri dishes, which is the most cost effective way that everyone can do a self analysis where you can literally look at the colonies. I was showing you some colonies growing in my office. You can do that at home or you can send it to a lab in New Mexico where you can get it.
analysis and figure out exactly what species and then you can get a total score, a health score. And zero to four is normal. So you can't find like a zero, it's tough to find zero mold, even in the most pristine environment with crazy HEPA filtration and ERVs and ventilation systems. But we had
like 96 colonies growing. And this is like danger, you must get out. So my wife and I took our, our firstborn with us, we evacuated to a hotel on my birthday, I'll never forget it. This is just a few years ago. And I was spending my birthday in a hotel dizzy for mold. And I thought, Jesus, what a turn of events. So
Long story short, got involved with the builder. He blamed it on ventilation issues. We found a busted pipe in the crawl space. It happened during construction. So we had moisture in the crawl space.
And obviously, that water wants to get back up to the sky so that it can rain back down on planet Earth. But my floor was in between the dirt in the sky. So it evaporated into the subfloor. We just thought, oh, this is just we live next next to the forest it's supposed to be a little moist you might leave a little streak of water when you're walking in your kitchen no that's not normal at all so luckily i'm mostly recovered but it's been a hell of a journey
Jack Wolfson's actually been on this podcast. People can find that episode. In previous episodes, we talked about cardiology and lipids and all kinds of things. People should go back and listen to the episode with Jack Wolfson. He's amazing. If you guys are interested in lipids. Um, but this is so interesting to me because I was, we were having this conversation when I was in Costa Rica and you said the pollute, the solution to pollution is dilution.
Oh, this makes so much sense. And one of the reasons I love being in Costa Rica is that most of the buildings are open air. And the house that I now live in in Costa Rica, the house I bought in Costa Rica is open air. And I thought, oh, this makes sense. You mean, and I joked with you via text. I said, Evan, you mean we're not meant to live in hermetically sealed Tupperware containers as houses?
like the perfect definition of a human zoo and here I am back in Austin in a hermetically sealed house with you know drywall and I'm just praying like well I who knows what the mold is here because I haven't done a petri dish test here but The idea here, I love it because there are so many...
pieces of the story that point back to this concept of the remembering that i like to think about and one of them is just this lifestyle like humans are not meant to live in tupperware containers you're not meant to live in a sealed house but this is what many of us do
I'm very fortunate to live in an open air place in Costa Rica, which means I get roaches crawling across my floor or, you know, like lizards, you know, running through my bedroom every once in a while. But I will take the trade off to have. open air even though it's a very humid place in costa rica and hopefully lower levels of mold but in your case a pipe bursts your house is contaminated with mold you don't even know and then you have all of these symptoms and
And this is one of the more interesting things that I've learned about recently hearing you on other podcasts and talking to you is the number of symptoms that mold can present with. It's quite varied. And there's a lot of people out there. who have anxiety or palpitations, or maybe are having these attacks that may feel like PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, or higher blood pressures.
And isn't it interesting to think that this could be mold? I mean, what's the spectrum of symptoms that mold generates in people? What is the most common? And then what other things do you see in people who are exposed to mold? These are obviously not going to be...
Not every person who has these symptoms has a mold exposure, but I want people to understand that there's quite a breadth of symptoms that people can experience when they are exposed to this. And it's something to think about. Sure. Yeah. I mean, people call Lyme disease the great mimicker because it...
seems like so many other things and mold is in the same category as the great mimic or if you put side by side a table of Lyme disease symptoms or co infections like Bartonella and Babesia you put that next to mold symptoms. they're almost exactly the same. It could range anything from anxiety and panic attacks to depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, any sort of mood issue. If you have rage, if you're angry, if you're abusive, you probably have mold toxin. If they were to take
a survey of all like domestic abusers and test their urine for mycotoxins, I'd put a huge amount of money on the fact that 95% of them are going to test positive. In fact, there was a study done by a guy named Dr. Brewer who ran a chronic fatigue clinic for years.
35% of his patients in his clinic that had chronic fatigue had at least one mycotoxin in the urine. So I'd say fatigue is the one that most people can relate to and we could get into the mechanisms but mainly it's just damaging your mitochondria and it's affecting the gut barrier.
your nutrient absorption falls apart, you get candida overgrowth, which is a symptom, you get bacterial overgrowth, which is a symptom. So all the people listening, if you've been doing treatment with naturopath or functional medicine practitioners, like you're doing oregano oil.
and berberine and Paul de Arco and French tarragon and you're rotating all these antifungals and antimicrobials but your SIBO and candida keep coming back it's probably because you have mold. So any sort of recurrent infection would be mold. brain fog is huge dizziness I mentioned I had dizziness tinnitus so ears ringing cool could be full blown vertigo I mean if I had a really bad hit of mold like I stayed in a moldy hotel
You know, you could end up spinning. So blood pressure will be unstable because it messes up your nitric oxide synthase. So you literally don't make as much nitric oxide. So for men, erectile dysfunction, weak erections, cold hands, cold feet, cold nose. circulation issues, heart palpitations.
atrial fibrillation. I've seen several cases in older females who were put on beta blockers and other prescriptions by their cardiologist. And fortunately, with finding and treating the mold, we were able to get them off their heart medication. So I think a lot of cardiologists are putting these patients
on medications because they think that's the solution but it's not root cause as you and I both know a beta blocker or a blood pressure medication these diuretics it's just managing the blood pressure managing the the heart palps
but mold was the culprit. So I mean, I could go on and on on symptoms, anything that's weird, anything that someone would classify as a weird symptom, like you have a burning sensation in your head, or you've got tingling in your feet, or you go in a certain building and one side
if your face gets numb. Anything that people would describe as weird, you could assume mold. And this is the way that I think about it. And feel free to offer any modifications to this paradigm if you feel differently. When people... reach out to me um obviously i don't give medical advice on the internet but when they reach out to me and they say i have this condition you know i usually direct them to hardened soil and have them email us and hardened soil and and
the first thing i think of for people is start with your diet right start with the low hanging fruit, like eat a nutrient rich diet, which I think you and I both agree is a lot of animal foods and organs and the least toxic plant foods. And so start there, you guys. So if you're listening to this and you have weird symptoms, start with the least. but at least
difficult things to change in your life, right? Make sure your diet is on point. Maybe think about your circadian rhythms. Think about your exposure to sunlight. Get real sunlight on your skin and sleep well. So if you're doing those things, if you're sleeping well, if you're getting sunlight on your skin,
and your diet is on point, you're including organs, either fresh or desiccated, and you still have weird symptoms, that is the point at which we need to think about things like, I would say, mold and co-infections. Would you agree with that? Yeah, it's huge. And the problem is
people don't want to face the truth. This is one of those weird controversial subjects. I mean, I've talked about all kinds of controversial stuff on podcasts, but mold is one of those ones that makes people really uncomfortable. And I don't know why I haven't figured out if it's because of the money that you have to spend.
on remediation, the potential to have to throw out all your stuff and give away all your clothes like we did and start all over. I don't know if it's the you know, family members talking people out of it saying you're crazy. I don't know if it's like
just a psychiatry type thing where they blame it on your, you know, it's psychosomatic, right? It's all in your head. I don't know exactly. It's a convergence of many factors. But this is something people don't want to talk about. But yeah, regarding diet. That's why so many people feel better.
If you go paleo, I think that's a good start. But if you go further, and you go carnivore, and like you're talking about now adding back in honey and some berries and things like that, I'm doing the same thing personally, like I had a grass fed shoreline for breakfast today, and I feel great. And so
I knew you'd be proud. But I am proud. Yeah. And my daughter to my daughter summer, she just turned five that kids a carnivore I can't get I mean, she won't eat vegetables. She doesn't want to And after you came on my podcast, I stopped feeling guilty about it because I had this pressure like
Hey, honey, I'm going to get you to do some organic broccoli. I'm like, wow, we got to help detox, right? Let's get so for refrain in you. Let's get some broccoli. Now I could just care less and she performs better without it. So that's amazing, dude. That makes me so happy. And I think that. You're an illustration and I've often tried to communicate this online.
I'm still looking for the right words, but how much consternation could be saved across the world in houses when parents just stop forcing their kids to eat vegetables that they don't want to eat and they don't need. Like your kid is smarter than you. They don't need spinach or kale or broccoli.
broccoli or vegetables, like just don't force them to eat vegetables and it'll be so much better. But yeah, I think that that's all quite interesting. Now, do you have, do you want to show, you mentioned like in your experience, you put Petri dishes in your house.
see the number of colonies of mold. You had some pictures. Do you want to show screen share? Again, this podcast, if you're listening, you can go to the YouTube and see these videos. Evan's going to be, we're going to be talking about cases later in this podcast. There'll be some images, but
why don't you screen share what the petri dishes look like and how you, I guess, how you, you know, count the colonies and what they, what you would do from there. Yeah. Let me pull it up here. Okay. Can you see that? Yes. okay so for people that are listening you won't see it but essentially it's just it's called a gravity plate so a lot of mole companies do air testing where they just suck air out of the middle of your air column in your room and they say everything's fine but the mold
spores all to the ground. So these agar plates have essentially a gum on them that will hold on to the spores and then these things can start to colonize so what we're seeing Fortunately, on the bottom picture, this is my office as of last week, only one colony, which is considered normal, only one colony of Aspergillus showed up. And then on the top here, this is our great room. We've got a big screen room and we've got a big patio. We've always got fresh airflow.
So we're probably bringing in some outside molds, which can be okay. But you can see here you can count at least I'm counting at least five or six colonies. So I'll probably end up using some essential oils to treat that and knock the levels down. And then this is the underside
of the petri dishes, just so you can get a good look. It's pretty nasty. I mean, even to the untrained eye, if you see a petri dish covered in these colonies, you know, something's not right. And of course, you like to match that up to
client or the patient's symptoms you like to figure out hey are you having these symptoms so my intake form i have people check off all that stuff we talked about earlier if i see or hear more than three symptoms let's say it's anxiety fatigue and vertigo i'm like oh
ding, ding, ding. And then we'll just run a urine screen to confirm or rule it out. And so what you were describing in your story is that you had plates like those that you just showed that had 90 plus colonies. They were essentially covered.
in these little punctate circles. And for people that are listening, these are circular auger plates that you guys all probably played with when you were in high school and culture bacteria on them. You open them in your house and you look for the amount of mold that grows and you can count the number of little circles, which are columns. of mold. And you said you had over 90 colonies. Yeah, they eventually flag it too numerous to count.
right luckily we still got a number on it but man i can't tell you how many in the pacific northwest i've seen that are too numerous to count that is like mold central pacific northwest florida i mean the whole the whole south, really. I mean, if you're like someone listening, and you're like, okay, molds everywhere, what do I do? Where do I go? Where are the healthy bubbles to be? In general, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada.
are probably the best. If you just look at a humidity map in the United States, if you wake up early, you're up at like six, like me and you pull up a humidity map in the country. everywhere's 80 90 100% humidity in the morning except for that little pocket in the US. But the problem is, because it's so dry there, I used to live in Las Vegas, I went to high school in Vegas. The problem is, it's so dry, like 6%.
lately it's like 112 degrees and six percent humidity so then people bring evaporative coolers in and now they introduce all this moisture into the environment and now this drywall just sucks it up like a sponge and then boom you got mold just like you did in in the south now
I think a lot of people are going to hear that. We should probably qualify that. A lot of people are going to hear that and think, I can't move to the Southwest. You know, I went to medical school at the University of Arizona and Tucson.
I don't want to go back to Tucson. It's a great place, but I don't want to live there. I want to live in Costa Rica. I'm sure there's a lot of people here that want to live in Atlanta or they want to live in Kentucky where you are, or they want to live in, you know, my family's in Virginia. Like we're not going to move out of Virginia. I think there are a lot of listeners.
who are going to live in, they're going to live in, in, in humid places. And so I think we just need to make sure that we give them like, okay, if you, you're going to live in Florida, great. Like Florida is very progressive now with COVID and Miami's turning into a very big.
tech space and a lot of people are moving to Miami. Like, let's make sure if people want to live in those places, what should they be doing? Should they start with these petri dishes in their house? I guess they should start with their symptoms. If you feel good and you live in Miami.
Fantastic. Virtual high five. You're doing awesome. But if somebody lives in Miami, for instance, and has funky symptoms, fatigue, anxiety, and weirdness, and say they've done an animal-based diet, they're getting out in the sun because they live in Miami, they're sleeping seven to eight. hours a night. What's the next step? They put these petri dishes in their home. How do they test their environment or how do they test themselves to see if this could potentially be related to a mold exposure?
Yeah, yeah, good question. And you know, one thing I forgot to mention, which happened to me was new onset chemical sensitivity, I became so sensitive to perfume, and hairspray and candles and any kind of synthetic fragrance, it would almost make my eyes go blurry. So anyone who's
chemically sensitive. Some people say, Oh, that's just my preference. I just, oh, that stuff's nasty. I don't like it. Yeah, I mean, these are estrogenic compounds, right? We know there's, you know, estrogens, there's all sorts of manmade chemicals in these products. So that's one good reason to avoid them. But if you're having a reaction, meaning your family member comes over and the dryer sheets on their clothes makes you ill
that's a chemical sensitivity. Some may diagnose that further as what's called mast cell activation. Mast cells are part of the immune system, they have trip days and histamine and other mediators in those. And when you get exposed to a toxin like
mycotoxins, which come from mold and water damage buildings, those mast cells start to leak out histamine. So when you hear about people with histamine intolerance, or they're going on low histamine diets, that's the reason carnivore diets so great is because as long as you're not doing three, you know, three day
leftover meat in general, it's, it's a very low histamine diet, which is why I push people towards it. But it's not necessarily the histamine that's the problem it's your tolerance for histamine that's the problem and that's because of your mast cells so usually what we'll do is we'll try to stabilize people and use something like quercetin which is in the vitamin c family which will stabilize the mast cells while we're working behind the scenes
But yeah, if they have symptoms, we'll likely just run urine right out of the gate because if they're fatigued, we want to look at their mitochondria on an organic acids test.
And organic acids are essentially like measuring your tailpipe. When you take your car in for emissions testing and they measure the pollutants from your tailpipe, you could do the same thing with first morning's urine. And when you look at the urine, you can see all kinds of stuff, which we could get into anything from bacteria.
overgrowth to Candida to your neurotransmitters. Mycotoxins deplete dopamine. So we're all a phone smartphone, social media addicted society. I think part of it is because so many of us have low dopamine. due to mycotoxins depleting dopamine that's one of the many reasons and then we test the petri dishes so i do both at the same time but i'm working with people that are sick they don't feel good so they're not the maybe average person who feels pretty good listening
So I guess there are three things people can do, which I think are reasonable. You can start with petri dishes and do just mold colonies in your house. You can do urine organic acids testing, which is something I've talked about previously, but not in a while. And we're going to dig into a little bit of that.
It's called oat testing, organic acids testing. And you can do urinary testing for mycotoxins through a company like Great Plains. But you touched on something that I want to highlight because I get a lot of people asking me about histamine intolerance and histamine sensitivity. And these are co-
occurring things that I really want to highlight for people that, and you mentioned mast cell activation syndrome, which is sometimes abbreviated MCAS, MCAS, but, and then you also mentioned SIBO. So I want people to understand that, and candida or candida. like recurrent candida, SIBO, histamine intolerance, MCAS. If you're doing everything else right, animal-based diet, sunlight, sleep, maybe this is something to think about with mold. And this could be one of these.
One of these keys that unlocks the door for a lot of people that isn't always thought about, because you do run into people a lot of times with... Difficult to treat histamine intolerance. And we have a supplement at Heart and Soil, Histamine and Immune, which seems to help because it provides some DAO, some diamine oxidase.
from kidney, but then the question, and thymus, then the question is, why are you not making enough, right, DAO? And that's usually a gut issue, which could again be related to mold toxins. So I just find it fascinating. This is maybe one of these things. It's everywhere. And before we dig into the oat testing and the urine testing, and we look at some of these, I just want to highlight something else that's come up a bunch in this podcast, which is that a lot of people will...
rightly say, mold is everywhere. We shouldn't be worried about this. We should be able to tolerate it. But, and I used to think that. I have some really smart friends that I respect deeply who would say that to me. They would say, Mold is everywhere. Humans have been exposed forever. I think we should be able to tolerate it. But what I'm thinking more and more now is some people just can't tolerate it very well. And maybe based on your exposures and where you are, there's probably some.
overlay of genetic susceptibility and exposure to these toxins in the environment. And some people do get really sick and that makes it difficult for them. So why don't we talk about... urinary organic acids testing, maybe show some of these for people who are watching the video and then get into the urinary testing for mycotoxins. So this is the beginning of like how you would test to see if this were really an issue for you.
Yeah, I want to take what you said a step further, just to help any skeptics that are still out there, the people that say, oh, well, molds everywhere. And, you know, our hunter gather ancestors were exposed to it. And like you visited with the tribe, and they're fine. They're out there outside, aren't they exposed?
to mold all day every day and aren't they don't they bring mold with them everywhere they go it's on their feet it's it's in their hair it's on their skin they're probably absorbing it through their skin they're probably eating it you know and the answer is yes to all of those we certainly used to be able to tolerate it but as you mentioned we're in these sterilized environments now where we have drywall that has paper backing, we have very poor ventilation, and we don't bring fresh air in.
with the new building codes the houses are built so tight now that they don't breathe i mean if you visited an old farmhouse as a kid you'd remember there'd be a draft coming through the window that draft helped us and that diluted the toxins within the home and back then we used to use plaster we didn't use drywall drywalls are relatively new building material. If you look at the human calendar, let's say you go January to December 31st of humans and where they live.
drywall is doesn't come into the picture in the evolutionary timeline until December 31 at 1159pm and 30 seconds. This is just such a new thing. to mankind you know we did not evolve to be around this and so that presents new exposure so it's not that mold is new definitely not it's the types of molds that are happening due to water damaged materials that's new and that's why we're
not prepared for it. And you take the conventional American diet that's filled with processed foods and refined oils and all these things that are creating inflammation, you're already aggravating your mast cells further. The mold exposure is the hit that finally puts you over the edge or for you mentioned DAO, for example, alcohol. I'm super.
intolerant to alcohol. Like if I take a shot, I'm tipsy. And I've always been that way. Now I knew that I was exposed to mold as a kid in my grandmother's basement. I remember that her basement flooded. It took two weeks to dry out. She just put box fans on it. I remember having such cold feet as a kid, I had to use a little space heater to keep my feet warm. So I had nitric oxide issues from the beginning.
and somewhat argue, well, you know, maybe it's just you. But no, this is this is an epidemic problem. So I just wanted to kind of comment on that idea that it's everywhere. And you should be fine. When you do alcohol, not only are you drinking
something that's depleting your DAO, but you're increasing your histamine to so it's kind of a double whammy. And you mentioned the supplement which I bought I haven't tried yours yet but it's it's coming in the mail this week so I'm going to report back to you on it I expect it I expect it'll it'll do really well because I've taken dao before and it helps and the reason that
people end up with histamine intolerance is because ochratoxin, which is one of the most common mycotoxins. So let me just explain that real quick. I think it's an important concept is what are mycotoxins. So it's not mold that makes you sick. It's the mold farts that make you sick. So aspergillus is the mold in a water damaged building. So if you've got...
let's say under your kitchen sink, you had a leak under your kitchen sink and that water sits there for more than 24 hours. And now you've got mold growth where you store all your hopefully healthy cleaning products.
you've now got aspergillus and that aspergillus is like hey this is a pretty good spot I don't want any other molds to come in and take this I'm going to eat this product and I'm going to convert this wood back into soil or whatever else so what I'm going to do is I'm going to start farting and I'm going to fart okra And that okra toxin is poisonous to other molds because I don't want them coming in and stealing my food. And then stachybotrys, the notorious black mole can come in and say no.
This is my territory. I'm going to start emitting Verucarin or I'm going to emit Roradin. And these are different mycotoxins that. they want to poison other molds, you're just the innocent bystander that happens to be in this very tightly sealed up home with drywall and tight windows and tight doors. And you don't have air purifiers and you've got spray foam insulation. So you literally cannot get any
exposure to dilute this crap. And then you breathe it in and get stored in your fat cells, the mycotoxins block your leptin receptors. So now you're never full. So even though you're eating all these great grass fed meals, you never have satiety. So you run for the
uh organic gluten-free cookie after dinner because you can't satiate yourself it's because your leptin receptors are blocked by these mycotoxins so you mysteriously put on 20 pounds and you don't know why you're eating carnivore keto and you're gaining weight and you can't lose weight your weights not budging why is because the leptin receptors blocked. So this whole cascade happens often without you knowing and then these mold farts are just
They're out there. So you breathe them in, they get stored, and then you measure them in the urine. Luckily, you can bind them up and pull them out of the body. So interesting. And thank you for that comment. And it's... You know, when I was in Tanzania with the Hadza, they don't live indoors. I don't think, hopefully no one has the misinformation or the misconception that the Hadza live indoors. Like they sleep outdoors, they make thatched huts.
There's no such thing as hermetically sealed buildings and hunter-gatherer traps. So yes, we were exposed to mold. Mold does exist in nature. And as you've said, the solution to pollution is dilution. open air is the way to do it but most of us live in these houses and and building materials parallel foods uh we've been introduced all sorts of evolutionarily inconsistent foods and now we're introduced evolutionarily inconsistent
places of living. And that can be a big deal for us as humans too. So, so let's talk about oat testing and maybe some urine testing and help people navigate this a little bit. It's going to get a little technical, which is why there are people like Evan who do this work with clients.
specifically, but I want to give you guys this information so that you can look at these tests yourself, or if you have a functional medicine provider who's done these tests, you can request them from that provider and you can understand what you're dealing with, or you can work with somebody like Evan. Yeah, here's the crazy thing. Do you ever think about this? I know you do because of your work. Like we have to have these technical conversations because us as humans, we screwed it all up.
If we never would have built the buildings and made these manmade foods and made the drywall and made the roof and made the window, we never would have had this conversation. I agree. And man, I mean, this harkens back a little bit to the conversation I had with Chris Ryan on this podcast about his book, Civilized to Death.
Granted, there are some nice things about having her medically sealed houses when it's 37 degrees in Austin, you know, Celsius and there's a winter storm and but it comes at a price. And so it's it's give and take for us. And that's yet another reason that I've been.
enamored with living in Costa Rica and getting back a little bit, finding like a little bit of a middle ground in a quote, third world country where I can live a little bit simpler and be in the open air. And yeah, but I agree with you. It's, I think we're all trading, you know, like.
we're trading one for the other and we're like, okay, now we have to have these conversations. Yeah. So one more comment on buildings and then let's talk about the oat because this is important. And I think people, if they, if they don't get this part, then.
then everything else is useless, which is you got to get your humidity under control. So my, my two girls, I've got two girls age five, and two, they're amazing kids. And my grandparents are here, which are like my best friends. There's those are their great grandparents. So we're here we're in
Kentucky. There's places we could escape to I could work from anywhere with my practice and business and I could go anywhere I want but I gotta be here for them I love them you know so I'm willing to make the sacrifice and be exposed to the environment here where in the months November through February it's gray it's
cloudy, it's wet, there's a lot of moisture here. So whole house dehumidifiers are a game changer. So if you're going to live in a drywall box like I am, and you can't live in open air like Dr. Paul, then maybe you need
whole house dehumidifier. So that's what we have in a brain called April air. I'm not endorsing them. I'm not affiliated with them. That's just the brain we have. And they've worked really well. What they do is they hook up to your ductwork. So in our basement in the unfinished space, we have these whole house dehumidifier
They hook up to your ductwork. I set them to 40%. My house is perfectly at 40% humidity, never a percent higher. And if it goes a percent higher, they kick on, they suck the moisture out. It runs a tube outside of the house to drip that moisture out of the house. house. And if you get into where we were at our old house, our brand new old house.
We were 55, 60% humidity. You can easily go on Amazon. And this would be interesting for you with your Costa Rica place. I'm sure it's like 90, but you can buy a hygrometer and you can measure humidity. And if you see that your house, which is sealed up, if it's not open air, then. you're you're sealed up if you've got 60 65 70 humidity you've got a problem mold growth is inevitable so those little like ge makes standalone dehumidifier units
But you don't want that because then you're going to argue over who has to drain the bucket of water like every six hours, it's going to get exhausting. So the whole house dehumidifiers, you never think about it, you set it and forget it and your house will be perfectly maintained. Now that doesn't
fix if you have a leak. That's just for not allowing moisture to create mold. So those perfect days like today here, it's blue skies, it's like 70 degrees, but it's super humid. So it's not hot enough for the air conditioner to run which is going to suck some moisture out and it's not cold enough to run the heater which would also suck moisture out so the so the hvac system is kind of in limbo right now but it's like 80 humidity so if that 80 starts seeping in
What's going to take care of that? What's going to prevent the 80 from coming inside and turning your 40 to 60 or your 40 to 70? So that's why whole house dehumidifiers in most of the country, in my opinion, are necessary building strategies. Amazing. All right, but let's talk about the oak because this is really fun. I'm going to share my screen with you. We were talking about this, this young boy the other day. This is a three year old and
Luckily, the parents are wise enough to recognize his symptoms at three years old and they want to get him better. So this poor kid, his name is Thomas. And he lives up in Pennsylvania. And he presented with a lot of skin issues, which is something I forgot to mention earlier. Anybody that has, I know you've done a lot of great work and post on carnivore helping with skin issues. I think that's
partly because they're removing moldy foods and they're lowering their histamine reactions. And they're probably stopping reversing autoimmunity. But this poor kid had skin issues. He had sleep issues. He had mood issues. He was angry. He was irritable. He had food reactions, food sensitivities. And we can see why. So what we're looking at are the byproducts of your metabolism. This is the exhaust pipe of the body, you measure this in the urine and these different organic acids are linked to
certain things like this marker here. This is Aspergillus. So you want less than 28. that would mean that you're not growing mold. This poor kid has been exposed, maybe from a daycare, or maybe in the moldy house. I actually spoke to his mother, who's a client of mine as well. And she told me that they have a lot of trees around her property, right close to the
house. And the roots of the trees have actually busted through the foundation of their house and their entire basement. And then they had a partial crawl space was flooded with water for years and years and years. And it was because of the tree roots. So I love trees, but not if they're poking holes. your foundation and allowing water intrusion. And so she knows that she was exposed and we know that mycotoxins go through the placenta.
in utero. So even if a child did not have their own exposure, the mother can pass these mycotoxins through the placenta. And we've also seen mycotoxins show up in breast milk. So breastfeeding is the number one most important thing you can do for your child. The unfortunate thing is if you're full of mold toxin, you will transfer that to your baby. However, we've we've put even my youngest we've put her on binders and micronized chlorella and some other things we can get into from day one.
and you can detox these children very effectively. But long story short, what happened with this kid here is he was exposed to so much mold that he is now considered colonized. So there's several situations that can happen with mold, you can just go to a moldy hotel in Cabo for the weekend and you take a little hit of it and it gets in your body and that's it it stores and you're a mold reservoir or you can be a mold factory or you can be both
In this case, this kid is both he is making mycotoxins internally now meaning, even if his mother took him to a non moldy house, he was living in the middle of the desert, and he had no mold exposure. It doesn't matter because he's generating those mycotoxins internally now. And so you can see these levels are just off the charts. Arabinose, that's a marker for candida. So this kid has tons of candida overgrowth. He is addicted to sugar. And if you hide the sugar, he seeks it out.
He's like a heat seeking missile for sugar. I mean, he'll find it you hide a cookie, he's going to find the cookie and it's not his fault. It's because the candida wants to survive. So when you put a kid like this on
we'll use liquid oregano or we'll use berberine or antifungals. As soon as you put the kit on that and you start killing these mole colonies and the candida, it's going to drive up the cravings more. So it's just really up to the adult or you know, the parent to just try to help keep these people on on track.
with their diet to get through the treatment so that you can resolve this. And then I'll pause in a minute. So you can comment on this. But the last section on page one here of this oak test, you can see this kid has a major bacterial overgrowth problem. And he also has a infection that we see a lot in hospitals where people go in for endoscopies or colonoscopies, routine procedures, and they come home with what's called an HAI, hospital acquired infection like C. difficile.
which kills a lot of people because they basically just diarrhea themselves to death. So this poor kid's got C diff. And the conventional treatment in the gastroenterology world is very, very, very heavy duty, strong antibiotics.
And as you may have talked about before, you have this problem of antibiotic resistance. So even if you give this kid antibiotics, it might not treat the C diff. Fortunately, with herbs, we haven't had any resistance problems. So with a combination of it, hopefully we'll kill all these bad guys, which we have a lot. We've got tons of bacteria. We've got a bunch of yeast and a bunch of mold. Does this child have diarrhea or does he have like foreign stools? Do you know?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani It was it was back and forth. And that's the interesting thing is some bacteria, like you'll hear about IBS. That was one of my diagnoses years ago when I first suffered with gut problems.
Some people will be diagnosed IBSC for constipation, some IBSD for diarrhea. And I think the problem is because of his bacterial overgrowth, that's slowing down his motility, but then the C diff is speeding it up. So some days this kid's like you know liquid diarrhea and then other other times he's constipated and that's that's the hard part is what do you do for these kids and you really just have to pay attention to symptoms and if they're constipated
will bump up magnesium or we'll throw in some laxative herbs or if he goes to diarrhea, then we just try to go heavier on the binders. Interesting. So for those who are just watching on YouTube, we're looking at a number of organic acids. They have very esoteric names. For instance, Evan was highlighting one from aspergillus, 5-hydroxymethyl-2-furoic acid. There's 3-oxoglutaric.
acid, furan 2,5-dicarboxylic, furan carbonyl glycine. The names are not as important as the pattern. And presumably, if you have these symptoms and you're going to do this, you'll work with somebody who will understand these. A couple that Evan mentioned specifically, tartaric acid and arabinose are connected with aspergillus. But you can see on these urinary metabolites, like...
Like Evan said, these are sort of the tailpipe of humans. You can see on these organic acids that these are byproducts of yeast or fungal metabolism, and it gives you a sense of what's lurking. There are other bacterial metabolites that we talked about for Cressol or Cresspresol.
from C. diff or others. So there's all of these things that can give us a sense without actually going into your gut and... culturing yeast we can say or culturing fungal organisms we can go in and look and see what's going on here but this is a child who had all sorts of different symptoms and looks like they have some pretty problematic exposures to mold on this test. The other thing I'll add is that, and Evan touched on this, many foods, so we started out the podcast talking about
buildings, which I'll let Evan comment on this more, but this is the main source of mold exposure is environment. But Evan and I were talking before the podcast, Evan threw out the numbers, 90% is your environment and 10% is your food perhaps. perspective that you can still get mold exposures from your foods. That's another thing to be aware of. We talked a little bit about histamine preformed in meat. If the meat is old, that's different than mold.
moldy foods can contain aspergillus or other things like fusarium or fumonisins. I talked about this in my book, The Carnivore Code. This is one of the concerns I have about things like coffee and grains, which can be very... moldy. Thankfully, if you drink coffee, I'm not a fan. You guys all know that there are many companies now that make lower mold coffees, but.
If you want to drink coffee or you're going to eat grains against the advice that I give, know where those are coming from and realize that anything in the bulk section of the supermarket, anything dried, any dried fruit, these could all be moldy and have mold. toxins. You don't know where these things have come from at all. So grains are a really big source of mold toxins. This is one of the reasons that I'm such a fan of grass-fed, grass-finished, regeneratively made.
meat is because if you feed a cow grains, do you think that they have given any attention? to the quality of those grains, they're very likely to be moldy grains which can contain aflatoxin, they can contain all sorts of other problems, aspergillium, all sorts of other molds, ochratoxin, pheumonacins, etc. I talked about this a long time ago with Anthony J. They can contain xenoestrogens from pesticides, but...
those are going to accumulate in the cow. So if you're eating a cow, just like Evan said, these mold toxins appear to be passed through the placenta from mother to baby. They're going to accumulate in a cow and you're going to eat meat. If the meat is fed grains, the meat could be higher in mold toxins as well. So understand that the foods you eat are a smaller source of mold toxins, but a significant source. Yet another reason to avoid...
Nuts, seeds, grains, legumes, dried fruit, generally speaking. Be careful with that. Anything super moldy in your foods could have this. And coffee can have these mold toxins as well. I hated to give up nuts, but you convinced me to do it. I really loved almond butter and almonds. And I just thought, God, he's right. Like you never in history, are you going to be able to just spoon feed yourself the equivalent of like 50 or 100 almonds? This just doesn't happen.
happened. So because of you, I stopped eating almonds, but it was it was a good thing. And I totally support it and totally recommend it. And yeah, just one comment on the grains. You know, when I was buying deer corn, when I was setting up my feeder at my farm for hunting season, I was looking on the back of the bag. And it was saying that they were actually testing and they could quantify that there was below
x amount of part per million of certain mycotoxins in the deer corn. And no, I don't support deer eating corn but hey it is good bait and it will bring in a big buck and it filled my freezer and my daughters eat deer deer meat or deer sausage every week because of that corn so
No, they're not eating corn on their own. But if you put it there, they will. And you know, the food industry knows about this because they don't want you I guess poisoning the deer that you're eventually going to harvest. And so I thought that was pretty cool. But let's Let's look back at this test. I wanted to see if there was anything else that we could point out because a lot of times you're going to see nutrient deficiencies to this is the other cool thing is why I love urine because
I actually prefer urine over blood because I would argue you get more functional information. Like when you see elevated liver enzymes on a blood work, that's a clue but it doesn't really tell you why these type of tests can tell you more straight to the source of why you may see elevated liver enzymes. So in this case, you could see like B vitamins, his B five was super low. And then vitamin C is almost always low. I mean, he wasn't flatlined, but but he was on the low end.
My thought is vitamin C being an antioxidant, the body's just going to burn up as much as it can to try to protect you from the free radical damage of the mycotoxins. But let's go over to the next one because this is the smoking gun for people. This is the actual mycotoxin report. And so the cool thing is, you can pee in a cup first morning's urine. And the cool thing about fasting to when I interviewed you for my podcast, we talked about how
I was like, what do you eat? Like how many meals a day? Do you do snacks? And you're like, no, I just do two meals a day. So the cool thing about that is if you're doing any sort of intermittent fasting, you're actually going to increase the excretion of mycotoxins and you're going to flush those out through your system.
more effectively so that's just another benefit another reason why many people may feel better when they're fasted partially because they're running on ketones but I think also part of it's because they're now flushing out mycotoxins so these are the actual mycotoxins so the same urine
sample was run through two different machines. And you can see here the okra toxin coming from that aspergillus that he's growing in his gut and probably his sinus cavities too, right? This is why we use antifungals in the nose.
because you're growing it. That's how you got exposed to it. You were breathing in a moldy building. So the chances of it colonizing your sinuses are huge. When you hear ears ringing, blurry vision, those type of symptoms, we assume there's more sinus involvement. And then you can see here gliotoxin.
which also comes from aspergillus, but candida makes gliotoxin too. This is where the brain fog comes in. You want to be less than 200. This kid's at 3671. So he wasn't record breaking, but but he was very close. And I see this all day every day. So this is not a rare occurrence. I'm not like picking a one out of 1000 case. I mean, this is like every day all day. This is what this is what I see.
You want to run us through some of those other ones? That's the aspergillus, then there's penicillium molds. He doesn't have any of those, but it's going to test for those as well. Yeah, and then here's the bad guys, the Stachybotrys, the Roradin we were talking about, and the Verukarn. And how do you know they're so bad? Well, look at the reference ranges. So for Roradin E, you want to have less than 0.2. you're like
point three, your toxic levels versus something like citrinin, which comes from different types of molds, you want less than 25. So so the lower the reference range, you know, the more toxic it is. Now let me look, I may have had a female we were talking about before we hit record.
a woman who was depressed for 20 years and she got 90% better with her depression in six weeks. I wanted to see what she had. She just had okra toxin. We can look at her just for fun real quick, but she just had a lot of okra toxin.
You can see here she was off the charts. But everything else showed up clear. And here's the interesting thing, which this is not really applicable information for everyone. But when you retest these, so after six months, usually we'll retest the urine, we'll often see... a bunch of new mycotoxins show up. And so the problem is poor detoxification led you to your mold problem in the first place. So
And you tell me if this analogy sucks, and I'll come up with a new one. But the best analogy I have for now is you give a bodybuilder in orange and you give a week old granny in orange and you tell them both to prove how much juice is in that orange and you let them squeeze. granny gets out this tiny bit of orange juice bodybuilder fills up the cup who's right
They're both correct. It's just that she was weak. She couldn't excrete all the juice out of the orange and he could. So that analogy hopefully makes sense for detoxification, meaning that You know, Jane Doe, she's not a good excreter or detoxifier. So she can only pee out just enough mold for us to get a positive result enough to justify using binders and glutathione to help treat her.
versus somebody else may be better at flushing it out. So their urine test looks worse on paper. But they actually may not be bad as the lady who can excrete it but luckily Once you upregulate the pathways, you get people doing infrared saunas, you're heating up the body, you're hopefully improving diet, so you're becoming a more efficient fat burner.
your levels may go up 10 or 100x on the retest that doesn't mean that you got exposed to more mold that could just mean that you're getting better at flushing it out. It's a very interesting concept. What are your thoughts about why people's detoxification systems are impaired? Because I have some thoughts on this, but I'll just piggyback on whatever you think.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani So some of its genetics, like when it comes to mold, if you read any mold books, you'll hear about this gene called HLADR, and about 25% of the population has it. I personally don't test for it. And I don't think it's worth testing for because if you see the mycotoxins on the urine, clearly they have a problem detoxing mycotoxins because they have a buildup. So I'd say save your money and spend it on the urine instead. And I think the other answer to it is
Well, there's a bunch of answers. So I'm gonna unpack a few that come to mind. Number one is the glucuronidation pathway. Glucuronidation is a pathway in the body where you take toxic substances and you break them down and conjugate them into less toxic substances. The problem is because we're all eating.
food that has glyphosate residue in it, that's killing lactobacillus and other beneficial species of bacteria in the microbiome, which then allows the overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria like streptococcus and staph and Klebsiella and pseudomonas. These pathogenic bacteria then raise...
an enzyme called beta glucuronidase, which is an enzyme that inhibits that pathway. So you're literally putting a cork in the drain of this phase two detox pathway. Now you have a buildup of estrogen. So you have women with estrogen. They have bad periods and PMS and breast tenderness. And that's all because of that pathway. So we can use things like calcium deglucarate.
which is a glucaric acid bound to a calcium molecule and you can inhibit that enzyme you can use probiotics to inhibit that enzyme so that you can get that glucuronidation pathway working better. But the root cause is fixing the SIBO. So that's that's one big thing. And I think the other thing is just our buckets are full. We've got we put mercury in our mouths in the form of silver fillings. We go out and eat glyphosate.
or we drink wine contaminated with glyphosate, we have histamine issues, we Don't ground ourselves to the earth. We're chronically stressed. We're surrounded by EMF and people live next to cell phone towers. There's some discussion. A guy named Dr. Klinghart, who's a medical doc up in the Pacific Northwest, he treats a lot of Lyme.
I haven't seen any study from him, but he claims that molds make 600% more mycotoxins when they're exposed to EMF. And I think that'd be an easy test to figure out. You would just simply put a mold in a Faraday cage. and then put that other mold next to a wi-fi router or a cell phone tower and surely you maybe see more toxin release it makes sense it's a threat to the mold even though it's an invisible threat
with the eyes, it's still a threat. So I could go down a whole rabbit hole there. But I think the answer is just toxins across the board. And I love what you said about glucuronidation. This is one of these phase two pathways in this. Beta-glucuronidase is an enzyme that gets produced when we have dysbiosis, which is essentially synonymous with SIBO. And there's a problem there. One of the things that I talk about a lot previously, but haven't spoken about recently, so I'll remind people is...
Black pepper contains a compound called piperine. and this is just another plant toxin, and piperine inhibits UDP-glucuronaciltransferase, which is the enzyme used in the liver to put glucuronide onto compounds that you are trying to excrete via phase 2 detoxification. This is the reason that people get turmeric with black pepper because they want to absorb more curcumin. If anyone has listened to any of my.
stuff. They know that I'm not a huge fan of curcumin as a compound in general, but the reason the curcumin absorption goes up 2000x when you eat it with black pepper is that your body wants to get rid of curcumin. Your body glucuronidates curcumin immediately when you eat it and it gets rid of the majority of it. And so herein lies the problem. If you are eating moldy food or you are exposed.
to things that your body wants to detoxify with glucuronidation, and you eat black pepper, you are inhibiting or decreasing your body's ability to do that, the level of UDP glucuronisyl transferase, curcumin being one of those, there are many others, and you're making this problem.
And as Evan said, you're getting recirculation, enterohepatic recirculation of things like xenoestrogens or estrogens from the body, endogenous estrogens, and you're getting all sorts of problems. So inhibiting UDP-glucuronicotransferase or... being in a state where there's extra
Glucuronide being cleaved by beta-glucuronidase is not a good thing for humans, and your phase two detoxification is impaired, both by your diet. Another reason I think a lot of people have impaired detoxification is nutrient deficiency, and this is one of the cool things.
things about eating an animal-based diet is that suddenly when you make meat and organs the center of your diet, when you eat a lot of meat and organs, you get lots of methylated folate and you get riboflavin and you get... k2 and you get all these co-factors these critical micronutrients that allow your body to do detoxification every once in a while at heart and soil we get an email from someone who says i took your supplements and i got this reaction and it's almost
inevitably some sort of increased detoxification kind of like you're saying with the mold where i think for years and years and years they've been nutrient deficient suddenly they're eating liver and heart and kidney and pancreas or whatever. And they have these methylated compounds, either folate or riboflavin, B12, all of the above. And their detoxification systems come online and suddenly their body starts to get rid of things. And so generally what we recommend is just decrease.
the supplements, go slowly, but keep doing them because as it's interesting that you're seeing this with mold as well. Sometimes when people come back online, they actually excrete more mold because the detoxification comes back. So again.
If you're having any reaction to food or our supplements, whatever, always reach out to us, you know, and there's something going on, let's troubleshoot it. But I do see this phenomenon as well. And people include organs in their diet. And sometimes even with meat, like the detox systems come back.
online, usually it's easy to confirm and it's a good thing, but it's interesting that the same thing happens with mold. Yeah. I want to speak on organs and just give my personal plug to organs because I think you. being you, people eventually may just get numb to hearing that because it's you. So I'm going to say it because people need to realize you're not just like
pitching pitching organs just to pitch organs when I'm on organs. It is a very tough thing to describe someone who's done psychedelic medicines, they could probably relate to it this feeling of being more connected to the earth, you maybe feel more grounded, the trees look greener, the sky looks more vividly blue. The grass just has this.
little movement to it that you realize everything's alive you look at the little petals on the clover flower and I see the honeybee right here landing on this clover flower outside of my window and you really tune into these nuances of nature and you realize wow I'm actually part of nature i'm not saying that eating organs makes you have a psychedelic experience good it could maybe but what i'm saying is that
What it does is it tunes me into the earth and it makes me realize how disconnected I am. And it's a, it's an energetic thing. So this is not something I can measure. I don't have any lab tests necessarily to prove it. Maybe we could run organics and say, Hey, look at your full.
metabolism which is a section on the oat test it's improved look at b6 b12 and all these nutrients but it's different than that this is a this is a strange energetic connection and and just to see how I felt I took a week off organs And I felt less connected to the earth, if that makes sense. That's very cool. Thanks for sharing that, man. That's amazing. Let me show one thing on stool because we were talking about infections a lot.
this woman we were talking about who had depression, we ran a stool on her too. And she showed up with H pylori. And I just want to give a couple like just little nuggets for people that maybe are trying to integrate organs or maybe go carnivore and they're having a problem. This is a big, this is a big common thing that I've seen where people on the forums will go, well, carnivore didn't work. It's like, well, what do you mean?
mean it didn't work like oh you had diarrhea or you had digestion problems well that's not the meats fault there's something that is wrong with you It's not the meat. So one of those big something wrong with you could be a helicobacter pylori infection, which is a bacteria that damages the parietal cells, which secrete stomach acid. And this is highly contagious. So if you have it and you're intimate with your part.
partner, they probably have it too. And conventional therapy is what's called triple therapy. It's three antibiotics at the same time, it doesn't work as effectively as it used to because of antibiotic resistance and the helicobacter is mutating. But this woman had that. So if she were to go full carnivore and complain, hey, I didn't feel good eating grass fed steak every day.
And I would say, well, duh, this is why your stomach acid levels are too low. So we have to clear this infection out. And then we have to raise her levels of HCL. And maybe we do supplemental
And then you could see all the SIBO stuff here, all these different bacterial overgrowth markers. The strep was high, enterococcus. You can see she had geotrichum, which is a fungal infection. And not to get too boring, but you could see that... her levels were exponentially high that's insanely high yeah e2 is normal and she's an e10 so if you go e to the third that's 10x e to the fourth 100x and so on so this was one of the highest i've ever seen
She's like a billion times higher. I can't even do the math on it. It's ridiculous. 10 to the 8th, I guess, which is, yeah, almost, yeah. And then down here.
So she had intamoeba coli, which is a parasite infection. She was 100x above normal there, I would argue there's no normal amount of intamoeba and blasto and some of these others that really cause a lot of damage to the gut. You can see here this woman, she would complain if she tried to eat grass fed steak every day because her pancreatic elastase, which is essentially one of the, I guess the domino effects of digestion, it's turned off.
And then you can see here that beta glucuronidase we talked about is high. And the higher that number goes, the more recirculation of toxins you have. And then lastly, you see the secretory IgA is low. So we would assume this woman has a leaky gut. And those are all the pieces that really add up to why people
feel like crap. So I just, I get annoyed when I see people like demonizing meats and they're blaming it on, well, I didn't feel good or I got bloated or I had diarrhea or I had gas. Okay. That's just a clue.
And now it's your job to dig deeper to figure out why you did it. Because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandpa who was eating grass-fed venison, he might not have had all these same toxins and other things that you had. No, thank you for sharing that. It's a really important point.
People always ask me, or I think there's this undercurrent, this idea in society, like, well, maybe there are just some people who are meant to eat plant-based diets. And I think, no, that's hogwash. Like, we are all homo sapiens.
I think that there is definitely individual variability. You know, squash triggers my eczema. Maybe it doesn't trigger the next person's eczema or really trigger the next person's immune system. Dairy isn't great for me, but other people can do it. But I think that generally there are overarching principles that apply to...
species appropriate diets for humans. And one of those is meat. And so when people say to me, I don't do well with red meat, the first question i have for them is do you know your zinc levels are you zinc deficient because you haven't eaten red meat for 25 years and then you're not making enough stomach acid and all these other questions that you're looking at with that gi map test in the stool what's your pancreatic elastase do you have h
pylori. Basically, they're all asking questions around, I'm asking them questions that are all centered around how is your stomach acid and how are your digestive enzymes? Because if you as a human cannot digest red meat, It's very likely that your stomach acid is low and there's a problem in your stomach and you're not making enough stomach acid. Maybe you need a supplement with zinc until you can absorb the meat properly. But I hear this all the time from people.
not to be sexist but it's usually women who probably haven't eaten a whole lot of zinc rich foods in their lives because more and more women i think are trying to look like the way fish unrealistic presentations of women on Cosmopolitan magazine, and they're not eating meat because they think it's going to make them big.
or somehow muscular or something that's not feminine with nothing to be further from the truth and they end up zinc deficient and so super important point that it's not necessarily that the meat isn't good for you i think we're homo sapiens and as homo sapiens meat and organs are a part of our just genetic book of life, look for other causes. And yeah, that's a little bit of a rabbit hole, but it's an important point to make. Yeah, well, so many people.
they just get lost in the weeds of diet. And we never end up ahead because there's just so much debate and discussion. So I love that you just say, hey, look, we're homo sapiens. Look at Weston A. Price. He traveled around. He looked at all these people. Their teeth were amazing. Their bodies were amazing. They were fit. They were lean. They had no chronic disease. You look at the work you've done with visiting tribes. They don't have chronic disease.
I don't know if it was you that said this, or maybe I saw another video or documentary on hunter gathers, they barely even have a word for depression, like mental health and mental illness just doesn't exist. You look at so many things that we could stop.
arguing about and we could actually move forward if people just agree and just say yep this is what humans have done we're going to do it we're going to improve how we can do it and how we can digest better But when you're arguing at the dinner table, and your wife's trying to force the broccoli on your kids, that sympathetic stress of the diet, in the fear of the food, that doesn't improve anything either, because digestion is a parasympathetic process.
we evolved to eat in social circles where being around other people just like being around horses for example can help normalize your heart rate variability when you're around a horse it helps stabilize your nervous system and there's a reason they use horses in therapy so you get that same benefit when you're in a social circle
versus when you're eating alone, scrolling on Instagram. That's a completely non-natural thing to your digestion. Love it. So let's talk about the most important piece, which is... Somebody has these symptoms. They're doing everything right. They're eating an animal-based diet. They're sleeping. They're getting in the sun. They put the plates in their house. They do the oat test with you or somebody else. They do the urine test. And they're like, you know what?
I actually am exposed to mold. And what do they do then? Like how do they, how do they move forward with this? We can talk about changing environment. You mentioned a little bit about these whole house dehumidifiers, and then let's get into some of the methods that you use to detoxify people. Like it's going to be different. There's obviously going to be individual protocols that are quite different, but I want people to have. tools and ideas of what the treatment for this mold looks like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Sure. Well, glutathione is really important. And it's not something everyone can tolerate right out of the gate because glutathione is great at mobilizing mycotoxins. So we used to before the lab told us not to we used to give people glutathione as a provoking agent similar how you would give DMSA or some sort of a chelating agent to do a heavy metal screen on people, we would provoke the body by having people do
glutathione and we saw that when we use glutathione it would actually show more mycotoxins we thought oh this is cool and then the lab said hey this is like messing with other markers in the mitochondria so don't do that so we stopped provoking but That was just a side tangent. But glutathione, you make it in your liver. It's your master detox antioxidant. It's incredibly important. There was actually a paper that came out by Dr. Horowitz, who's been treating Lyme for decades.
he had a female patient who was essentially on her deathbed with COVID. And he gave her a big wallop dose around two grams of glutathione. And guess what? It completely turned it around IV or PO I think this was just oral. I think it was just pills. But what I was doing and implementing was nebulized glutathione. There's a particular brand that has a sodium bicarbonate added to it. And we use this for
chocolate cake, which is your new code word. It's my podcast. We can actually say COVID on the podcast. Okay. All right. So so we use the the nebulized glutathione actually had a woman that was debating going into the ICU, but luckily we had her and kind of. you know stock up and be be a prepper essentially so she had the nebulizer with the saline solution and we did a 200 milligram capsule of acetylated
or actually, no, this wasn't this was a reduced I'm sorry, this was just regular L glutathione with sodium bicarbonate. And she did two sessions with the nebulizer, and her shortness of breath was gone. So we use it for mold too, because
if you nebulize glutathione, you can get it across the blood brain barrier. And that's why a lot of people have dizziness and vertigo is because we know that okra toxin, for example, damages the cerebellum, and you get a lot of your movement and proprioception involved with the
brain. And if your brain is damaged by mycotoxins, you might fall over, you might stumble, you might be clumsy. You're not clumsy, because you're clumsy, you're clumsy, because your brain's damaged. And so if you nebulize glutathione, you can help. treat that. And then we use oral glutathione. So a lot of people talk about liposomal versions. I'm not a huge fan of the ones that have the ethanol, because I personally don't do well with histamine type things. And for me, the ethanol
it kind of aggravates me. So I personally like to do acetylated glutathione, and I mix it with NAC. And NAC is a precursor, which Amazon has now deleted off of their store. Really? Yeah, NAC is gone. They wiped it out a few weeks ago. Is that because of COVID? Yeah, because people are saying that it can help. So they're...
NAC is completely gone. I use professional manufacturers, so we still have access to it, but I don't know what the future holds. Let's just also pause for a moment and add that N-acetylcysteine is the treatment for Tylenol poisoning.
I use this so many times in residency and medical training when people would try and commit suicide with Tylenol, which is acetaminophen, which is broken down into the liver into very toxic, oxidatively stressful quinones. And the way we get rid of those quinones is by pumping out...
giving the body to lots of precursors to make glutathione. So glutathione is three amino acids, one of which is cysteine. You acetylate a cysteine at the nitrogen, you get N-acetylcysteine, which is NAC, and that is the... bar none gold standard treatment for Tylenol toxicity in the hospital for patients. It's crazy to think that Amazon took NAC off of their store and it's something that... saves lives in the hospital every day for Tylenol toxicity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani I know but I mean, look what they did with ivermectin. I mean, I started developing we could do a whole part two on this if you want. But I mean, I started developing what I think was some post COVID issues. I was having shortness of breath and a tight chest about seven months after I first tested positive. Luckily, I had a dose of ivermectin and within
I would say honestly, less than six hours. Normally it's 24, but less than six hours, my shortness of breath was completely gone. And that's completely been suppressed where in a place like Costa Rica, you could probably get it over the counter for like a couple of bucks per pill. Whereas in America, And now it's demonized and actually the friend who prescribed it.
he had to get in a fight with the pharmacist and the pharmacist was claiming they weren't going to fill the prescription because he was doing something that hasn't been studied and it wasn't proven. And he said, excuse me, your job as a pharmacist is not to debate the doctor. Give me your name and phone number in case the patient.
dies, they know who to go after. And then eventually he filled the prescription. So I could do a whole hour on that. But if you want to comment, you can, but let's get back to the detox support. It's just crazy. I mean,
Ivermectin is a drug that's been used generally for parasites. If I'm thinking of the right molecule, you know, it's this anti-parasitic and there are all sorts of drugs like this. I mean, there was zinc and quercetin and I mean, you know, hydroxychloroquine. There was so much debate about these.
drugs and whether they could be used for covid and obviously we have to weigh side effects and you know it's not an indication but it's just that's how the fda works in the united states if it's not studied we're not going to prescribe it. And it's like, wow, maybe it could help people. Let's weigh the risks and the benefits. It's a quite controversial topic. It's interesting that it helped you, but NAC and glutathione, I mean, these are pretty safe compounds, you know, like there's no question.
Like NAC is not going to hurt anyone at a dose of 500 milligrams or a thousand milligrams. And for Amazon to take it off. I mean, that's just, that's very strange. Anyway, chocolate cake, you guys. It's nuts. But yeah, there's like 92 studies on ivermectin. You could look up C19 ivermectin.
dot com. There's 92 studies in PubMed on this. There was a 75% reduction in death. We could have prevented 75% of the deaths in this country with ivermectin. So I'll leave it at that. We'll do a part two. That's crazy. All right. But on the on the detox.
So NAC is amazing. The only thing you mentioned, it won't hurt anybody. That's true. The only thing that it would do would maybe dry your sinuses out a little bit, which for most people is probably a good thing. Unless you already have dry sinuses, maybe you get a nosebleed if you go too high, but that's rare.
So glutathione mobilizes the toxin, but now you need something to bind to it. So in the prescription world, if you're really sick, you can use cholestyramine, which is a bio acid sequestrant. Cholestyramine is used by the military to help treat bio warfare. toxin exposure, essentially. And cholestyramine is one of the only things on planet Earth to actually detox the PFAS and the PF, I forget all the acronyms, but the nonstick chemicals.
if you look at the research, cholestyramine is like the only molecule to bind to these things. So if you like me grew up, you know, eating food cooked on Teflon, and you want to get it out. colostaramine would do it. And that's what I did. I did a little bit of colostaramine because I was miserable. I mean, I was exhausted. I had blood pressure spikes that I mean, my blood pressure would change 50 points in 10 minutes. It was scary. It was not fun. So I did use colostaramine.
for a short period of time. Would I do it again? Probably not because the thing the medical docs that treat mold don't tell you is it does affect the mitochondria. and it does affect the gut. So natural binders are much, much safer. So zeolite clays, bentonite clays, charcoal, chlorella, silica apple pectin, humic and fulvic acids, those all do the same thing in a different mechanism, they bind to the mycotoxin, and then they pull it out through the stool. So as long as you're pooping every day.
you're fine to just go right down the road and buy you some good activated charcoal it may come from coconut shells which is a good organic source and you could start taking that right away and remove not only mycotoxins but pesticides and herbicides and heavy metals there's so many good qualities of it.
and it's so safe. The only thing that happens is if you take too much, you could get a die off reaction. It's not truly a die off. It's just a detox reaction. Like I took eight charcoals in a row, I took eight pills all at once. And I got a little woozy. And I thought Oh, I moved a little bit too much. And why that happens, cholestyramine, it can happen too, but less so because it's a stronger bond to the toxin. But charcoal is a very weak magnet. So charcoal just very gently binds on.
to the mycotoxin if you were to zoom in and look at charcoal it's kind of like a lava rock if you ever had those in your landscaping as a kid and the mold toxin kind of gets trapped in the little pores so it's not a perfect bond and when you're dragging it through the intestinal tract especially if you have leaky
gut, those mycotoxins can reabsorb into the bloodstream and cause an issue. So if you're noticing an increase in symptoms, fatigue, anxiety, or brain fog after a binder like charcoal, you're probably just doing a little too much or you just really need to heal your gut up before you can handle more.
That's super fascinating. Yeah, cholestyramine is something I've always worried about. I've used it in patients in the past or clients in the past with caution because if you go too long, it's also because it's a bile acid. binder, it's going to deplete your ability to absorb fat-soluble vitamins.
people can run into all sorts of fat-soluble vitamin deficiencies and all sorts of problems long-term with cholestyramine. But I like the idea of more natural, quote, or maybe less toxic binders, charcoal, like you said. You know, the chlorella is an interesting one. The one thing I'll ask you a question about is zeolite because maybe...
You have a good source for zeolite. We don't have to say the exact source on the podcast. We can put it in the show notes or whatever you want. You can say it if you mention, but I've heard of bad reactions to zeolite too. Like it's such a binder that the only thing I know about zeolite.
is that you want to make sure that you get good zeolite you know that because it can already be binding toxic things i had a friend who took zeolite and and had a bad reaction to it so is there how do you vet your zeolite or i mean maybe charcoal seems pretty safe to me you know coconut husks pretty safe charcoal crack cell chlorella probably
pretty safe i just with the binders i think is it true you don't want to you just got to make sure you get a good one because you don't want that to have already bound something bad that you're putting in your body you're totally right yeah some zeolites actually showed up contaminated highly with aluminum right and and other heavy metals so yeah it is a big problem and i just use professional sources that do purity reports and they'll actually show you the test report on it
And if somebody's paranoid, then we could just say, hey, fine. And another thing was you like to it does tend to be very dehydrating. I'm on a bunch of zeolite. So I just have, I have a bunch of water that I just have to keep because it keeps you parched. Mold also will cause excessive thirst and excessive urination we talked about that before we hit record but if you're up in the middle of the night to go pee
it's not necessarily because you're getting old like your doctor says it's not necessarily hormones it could be but it could also be mold because it affects the kidneys and I think the mechanism is you're just having to work harder to try to filter these things out. So you're creating more urine. So when I detox myself, I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night to go pee anymore.
That's a really interesting anecdote. Sorry to interrupt you. That's a really interesting anecdote that I'm glad that we covered because I just want to make sure that we emphasize that one as well. Because I've been with a couple of people who had this like frequent urination at night and we can never figure out what it was. But in your experience with mold, you were getting up four or five times a night, you said. And then when you went through some of these protocols, that got much better.
Yeah, I don't get up at all to pee unless I drink a ton of water right before bed. Yeah. So what I would do just an experiment, get these people on a binder before bed and see what happens. Like a charcoal.
Yeah, I would do a charcoal, just an activated charcoal. You could do like 250 milligrams or maybe 500 milligrams, which is about two capsules. And it may take a while. I mean, timeline wise, to be honest with you, I think it's important to break that down because that's a common question. Well, how long is this going to take?
take and the answer is it depends if you're 40 and you've got 40 years of accumulated mycotoxins starting from in utero when your mother transferred her mycotoxins from her mother to you and then down the line so there's this that's why it's fun to work with families because
you'll see the toxic kid, the toxic mom, the toxic grandma, I've been I've been fortunate to work with several generations. And it's crazy to see the same mycotoxins. Like, is that just coincidence? Or is that literally through the family line? And then you
plot that the family toxicity with the mental illness. Oh, she was depressed and anxious. So was she so was she and then it really starts getting crazy. But one thing I was going to mention is probiotics. There's actually some really cool papers coming out now on probiotics. as being the most broad spectrum. So charcoal is really good at certain mycotoxins like okra toxin. But charcoal is not very good at zero known.
which comes from Fusarium Fusarium is another mold that makes the ever known people freak out about soy You want to talk about something crazy estrogenic zero unknown, they'll put it in the ears of cows. I know Dave Asprey talked about that years ago when he was promoting his moldy documentary. and they'll use it to fatten up cows by affecting their estrogen. So you can breed zero known in
It's crazy, but charcoal doesn't work very well at detoxing it. A clay would work better or possibly a probiotic. And the cool mechanism of the probiotic is it's actually converting.
I think it's probably some type of a conjugation mechanism. I don't even know if it's fully understood. I think there's a ton we don't understand yet. And I don't claim to know at all. I just know enough to help people. But I think what's happening is you're taking the probiotic and the microbes which have probably been exposed to these molds before have some built in mechanism but because our guts are so messed up from glyphosate
We don't have those microbes there to digest and basically degrade these mycotoxins. I believe the mechanism is when you're throwing in tons of beneficial bacteria, those microbes are then somehow eating or conjugating or doing something to convert those mycotoxins. to less toxic substances and then prepping them for the phase two detox system. Do you have any particular probiotics that you've found to be helpful? It's such a crap shoot with probiotics in my experience. Sometimes I have.
people that I work with who get much worse on probiotics, right? And different strains of bacteria. Have you found anything that... specifically works well there's a ton of there's a ton of options and there's a ton of controversy over because the spore based people say spore based are best and then the soil based say they're the best because we come from the dirt and then the other probiotic companies say we're the best
because we're the best so we use a professional company to make it and i'll send you a link just in case my opinion changes in the future but i'll send you the one i currently use and we try to use strains that are going to be low and that don't promote histamine because certain species of bacteria will increase histamine levels so if you already have a person with SIBO and they have histamine intolerance those probiotics will flare them up and
You got to do it in the right order. If they have a major bacterial overgrowth and you try to come in with probiotics too soon, it's kind of like spreading the seed in the garden when you didn't pull the weed. So there is somewhat of an order. order of operation to it but admittedly i'm using probiotics sooner and sooner in the protocol now because i'm finding it helps with mold so right now we've got glutathione and nac some sort of binder
For binders, we talked about charcoal. We talked a little bit about chlorella. We talked about zeolite and the clays. You want to be careful with those. Humic and fulvic acids are interesting. They're found in dirt. It's like... right back to dirt like if we all just lived outside and ate some dirt we'd probably be good and until we're not who knows but do you use do you use humic and fulvic acids as well for binders
Dr. Justin Marchegiani I do. Yeah, use them in a broad spectrum formula one that has it all. So it's a zeolite charcoal silica pectin humic and fulvic blend. I've tried the humic and fulvic by itself in isolation. I wasn't that impressed. I think you need something a little more hardcore. I think humic
and Fulvic are great, but I think they're just very gentle. And it could get you better, maybe in like five to 10 year timeframe. But these are people that have suffered. So I'm rushing and rushing and trying to get them better in a year or so.
And then the sinuses. So we'll usually come in with something like Exlea Rescue, which is a xylitol spray. The one with the essential oils is a little more hardcore that can treat the colonization in the sinuses or you can use Argentin 23, which is a professional silver hydrosol.
medical doctors use bag spray, which is antibiotics up the nose. I'm kind of biased against it. The medical docs will argue with me and say I'm wrong and herbs and natural remedies aren't powerful enough and all that but I've gotten people better without the medication so I prefer to go natural when we can and then we'll use antifungals in the gut too so we'll use like saccharomyces boulardii is a great beneficial yeast it's kind of
marketed and sold as a probiotic but it does a couple things it helps kill candida and then also it helps with detox of mycotoxins and then we talked about calcium deglucarate earlier so anything you can do to help that phase two pathway and reduce that elevated beta glucuronidase, that's going to help excrete things like zero known. So if you're a woman with estrogen dominance, piecing together that protocol is going to be a game changer.
it's interesting you mentioned silica as well as a binder i got really interested in silica a few months ago when one of my clients sent me something about uranium and water and i went down this rabbit hole and looked and there's a controversial thoughts about this guys if you want to go back and look at it i looked at the amount of uranium in a number of drinking waters and mineral waters and i was surprised that
A lot of them were quite high. Pellegrino did not look good, unfortunately. And even this mineral water that I was drinking in Costa Rica that I really liked was quite high in uranium. Where's it coming from? What's that?
Where's the uranium coming from? Is this like nuclear fallout? I think it's coming from the earth. You know, these are mineral waters coming up from springs and the sourcing of the mineral water is different. So there's all sorts of stuff. I can send you the papers, but there's papers looking at German mineral waters and Italian mineral waters.
If you're drinking a carbonated mineral water, you want to listen to that controversial thoughts and know what you're drinking. When I'm here in Austin, I drink Mountain Valley, which is pretty, it's very clean based on everything I've seen.
The problem is that mountain valley is very low in silica. So the other side of the equation as I was looking at all these mineral waters was the silica content of the waters. And there's an interesting theory out there that part of the longevity effect in blue zones may be higher silica in the drinking water.
And this may explain it because silica is known to bind aluminum in the body and maybe it also binds mycotoxins. And so if you, the ideal thing would be get a very... to be to get a very clean water that is also high in silica now fiji water meets that bill but they only sell it in
plastic, which just pisses me off to no end because Fiji water is quite high in silica. Obviously I have no affiliation with them and it's very clean when you look at their uranium and other contaminants, but there's, there's not a great option that I've found that's right. readily available for most people to do that. So it's another rabbit hole to go down, but it's interesting that you mentioned silica, but it does seem to be beneficial. Do you know off the top of your head what type...
what form of silica is in that supplement? Or we can just talk about it offline, but I'm curious because there are some ways to, it would be interesting to think. You know, this is a question that we all have to go down the rabbit hole further on in the future. Should we be adding a little bit of silica to our drinking water? What if you could take purified, distilled water, you know, make your own distillate or use a very good RO system?
or just get a very good spring water and add silica to it. Yeah, so this one says, MMST silica. And admittedly, I don't know what the MMST stands for, but I'll have to look into it. We'll do it in the future. But I just wanted to throw that in because silica is quite interesting to me. And silica also occurs in foods. And if you listen to the controversial thoughts...
I did on that. It occurs in a lot of foods. Some people say, oh, I eat oats, which are a grain that is very likely to be moldy, but they say I eat oats because they're very high in silica. But if you look at the bioavailability of silica in Plant foods, it's very low. And you look at the bioavailability of silica and animal foods, it's very high. So in absolute terms, beef begins to be...
in the same ballpark as oats in terms of the amount of silica that you can actually absorb. So you can get silica from your diet. I don't think it's worth eating oats for silica guys, but that's a whole separate controversial thoughts that I already did. So interesting. Okay. So what else would you do? We talked about binders, glutathione.
Evan Brand, sauna, I would start I would start trying to heat up your body. And there's so much debate about saunas, whether it's high EMF, low EMF, infrared, hot rock sauna, steam sauna, to be honest, it doesn't matter. I haven't seen any difference in timeline tracking people over the last
several years working on these protocols, it has not mattered what they do, it just matters that they heat the body. And then if they can sweat, that's great. But here's the interesting thing, you don't even have to sweat. We had one woman who was a very poor sweater, which is also a sign of impaired detoxification ability, not being able to sweat is a problem. But she still got better. Now, how do you tease it apart?
you know when you're trying to get people better sometimes you don't care to tease things apart you just care that she's better because we were doing the glutathione the binders we were doing the intranasal antifungals we were doing all sorts of good things and we happen to have sauna in the mix but she reported that she felt
better every time she got out of the sauna, she had more mental clarity, and she had less brain fog. I think it's partially because saunas are known to increase the easy water, what's called the easy water in the cells. So there's probably some better movement. maybe you're increasing nitric oxide and blood flow. So the nutrients you're supplementing with are actually getting to where they need to get. There's probably a lot of different mechanisms involved. But to me,
heating the body is awesome. So if you can do a sauna without getting worse, and what I mean is, if you get spacey, if you get woozy, if you're dealing with pots, which is very common with mold. you know, if you've been diagnosed what this is, but for those that don't postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, this is when you stand up and you get woozy. A lot of it is due to coagulation, which Coagulation is essentially the buildup of fibrin within your capillaries that happens.
from guess what mold. So essentially, you know, your red blood cells have to travel in a single file line through the capillaries. That's how small they are. But when you have mold toxin, and you get even just a one like micrometer nanometer, I forget how they even what the reference range is but you get this tiny buildup of fibrin and now all of a sudden you don't have as much blood flow and you stand up and your blood pressure can't normalize.
And so now you're woozy and you feel like you're going to pass out or you do pass out. I used to get faint every morning when I stood up out of bed. And after I started using lumbrokinase, which is a fibrillinic enzyme that comes from earthworms, it breaks up that fibrin. I no longer have POTS. So all these people that get diagnosed with POTS, they get put on all these medications, but they're still missing the root cause. So sorry, that was a tangent. I don't even know how I got there.
I love it, dude. It's amazing. We're dropping so many pearls on people. Amazing. Okay. Okay, here's what I wanted to say. I'm sorry. So here's what I wanted to say, which so we got we got on the sauna conversation. And then that made me think of blood flow. And then that made me think of coagulation. And that's why the cold hand cold feet happens because of the fiber and buildup. So lumbro kinase is usually part of the protocol, but it's a little bit later.
Because when you start dissolving these biofilms, who knows what's hiding in there? Lyme spirochetes, bacteria, candida, yeast, fungus. I went hardcore on lumbrokinase. I'm like... These enzymes are good for me. They're breaking up colonies of bad stuff. So more must be better, right? So I just went hardcore. Oh my God, my feet started burning. My fingers were tingling. My face started going numb. I thought, uh-oh, I'm stuck.
I remember I woke my wife up in the middle of the night, honey, cuddle with me. Luckily, everything settled down and everything got better. But I poked the beehive, essentially. I really opened up this. literal can of worms, it's earthworms is what they make Lumbro kinase from and it started dissolving too much toxin, and it overwhelmed my system. So you do got to go slow if you're going to do something like that. But it is part of the protocol. And I do believe it is essential, especially like
child we talked about earlier, he's colonized from old. And so we have to break up those colonies and antifungals alone are usually not enough, you usually have to use these enzymes to literally eat the colonies open, and then the binder can take take it from there. this idea of biofilms is fascinating and all of many of these concepts are things that western medicine would completely poo poo so we are squarely into the realm of
out of the box thinking, which I think is great. And we do the best we can. And what we know is that if we stay within the realm of Western medicine, People generally don't get better. So I think it's good to think outside of the box and ask these questions. And I think it's amazing. And gosh, I mean, I haven't gone deeply down the rabbit hole of biofilms, but.
I certainly think there's something there and figuring out how to deal with that stuff is quite interesting. Well, did you know the CDC actually admitted they have a big article on biofilms now? Really? Yeah, this is becoming mainstream. They're saying that biofilms are responsible for 7,000.
deaths a year. And it's biofilms in the water supply. So in the water lines coming from the municipal companies like here in Louisville, we get our water from the Ohio River. And some of those pipes that bring it from the river to the city, those are hundreds of year old pipes. And the biofilms that have formed in those pipes are carrying all sorts of staph and pseudomonas and Klebsiella and all these other things. So then what do we do? Well, we just try to.
bomb the water with chlorine, which obviously just destroys the gut. So you got to make sure you're filtering chlorine. But it's it's crazy. So it's, it's a big thing. But it's becoming bigger biofilm is becoming mainstream news. and many of the things that that we thought were just
you know, made up concepts in medicine are becoming more and more accepted. This concept of leakiness to the gut, or at least fenestrations in the gastrointestinal epithelium is now talked about by ICU docs and it's becoming more and more. accepted gradually. And yeah, my frustration is that nobody ever then looks into the past and goes, man, we were really wrong. And that costs a lot of lives. And so of course we don't want to suggest that the caution we have moving forward in medicine is.
We want to be careful if we're suggesting things that are outside of the box. This isn't going to harm people. And we don't want people to suffer unnecessarily by this very slow pace of outside of the box thinking of Western medicine, which is glacial at best. Well, you've seen that meme. It says the difference between the conspiracy theory and the truth is six to 12 months.
I mean, it's especially relevant today as we're talking about COVID and the possibility of a lab leak. I just tweeted about this today and was talking to my team here at Heart and Soil. A few months ago, you would be censored and banned on social media for suggesting...
that the coronavirus could be leaked from a lab. And now we have evidence for gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab and some emails from Fauci, which I haven't reviewed in detail, but apparently he was aware of that and la, la, la. And so... isn't it interesting you know i was censored on facebook they deleted it i'm not joking like
So, and then you saw this huge expose on the Facebook algorithm that when you post things that increase hesitancy about the chocolate cake jab that, oh, I'm sorry. I'm used to saying that now because I've read your post about it. So, that's true though.
With dude, within less than 20 minutes, they deleted my post when I was talking about this is a bioweapon. There's a guy named Richard Fleming, who everyone should look up Fleming method. He did a whole talk all about the spike protein. This guy is an amazing he's a medical
doctor. He's a nuclear radiologist. He's been talking about the spike protein for a year. Anyway, I posted about it. Within 20 minutes, Facebook had deleted it. And then like a week later, I see this news article, Facebook will no longer censor post suggesting the lab leak theory. and i thought well i posted a week too soon damn it it's crazy and who knows i mean we yeah hopefully this podcast won't get censored from youtube
We haven't talked about chocolate cake too much in this podcast, but we have talked about it a little bit. So we'll see. Spotify has also been known to censor my stuff. Thankfully, Apple Podcasts won't ever sponsor it. I won't ever censor it. Sorry, Spotify will not sponsor. They will censor my shit. So we'll see. Anything else in the general mold protocol? You know, I would just say that you got to not be afraid.
The only thing to fear is fear itself, right? So this stuff, it is heavy. I know some of the stuff we kind of, we can joke and laugh about it. And, you know, I talk about poop all day with people. I really enjoy it. It's an amazing thing. I'm very blessed to be able to help people and help my family and help my kids and my wife.
I mean, I love what I do, but some of this stuff admittedly gets heavy. I mean, when you've been to 5, 10, 15 doctors and everyone thinks you're crazy and I'm the first guy that says you're not crazy, that's kind of a lot of an emotional weight on me. So what I try to do personally is what I tell people to do.
Like before we jumped on today, you you texted me hey i sent you the link i was like awesome i was outside with my daughter i had my bare feet in the grass i had my shirt off i was in the sunshine we just got done eating lunch we were listening to reggae music we were just having a great time and
That's really what life is about. I've got a nickel board, which is not a penny board, but it's the size up. So I was riding my nickel board, a little skateboard. I was riding laps in the driveway with her. I'm like, God, this is what life is about. All this mold talk today.
all about feeling good in your body. It's about feeling good when you sleep. It's about having enough energy to get through the day and play with your kids and be a good husband, a good wife, a good spouse, a good businessman, a good CEO. At the end of the day, that's what we care about. performers, and you can't be a top performer if your body is filled with mycotoxins. So I just encourage people to just be relentless in the pursuit to get yourself well, don't give up. If you're a sensitive
You know, my wife jokes, says I'm a sensitive snowflake. That's fine. If I go into a building and I feel weird in there, I get out. Don't think you're crazy. If you go in, she sent me a picture from Whole Foods this morning. It was a super, they were taking apart the drink counter and it was filled with mold. If you go in somewhere and you feel weird, you're not crazy. It's okay to leave. If you go in and you sense a weird.
your dark energy in the building, it could be mycotoxins. I went into a bookstore last thing and then and then I'm done. I promise. No, you're good. Okay, I went in a Barnes and Noble. And this was a couple years ago, I was not really in tune with this spidey sense of mold yet.
I was just now figuring this out, this connection between an emotional change and a mold exposure. So we went to Barnes and Noble, we were looking for kids books. And we were in the kids section, I look up at the ceiling, and there's black mold right there on the ceiling in this Barnes and Noble, which is
historically a pretty nice bookstore and I go oh my god there's black mold we got to get out and on the way home you know we've got some pretty nice windy country roads we're outside of the city and there's some huge trees along the way and I just had this small thought or wish that my wife would just run us off the road into the tree. And I wasn't suicidal. I just I was just done. I'm like, I've had a great life.
I'm okay to be done now. And then I snapped out of it. And I thought, what is wrong with me? And then she goes, honey, well, you were just at Barnes and Noble. Maybe it was the mold. And I thought, no, no, there's nothing to that. But then we went to a restaurant. I had that same feeling. It was this weird dark depression, this
A sense of impending doom is the best way to describe it. And I thought, well, maybe this is blood sugar. Like I've had hypoglycemia before. Maybe my blood sugar is low and I have impending doom because of that. So I ate and I didn't feel any better. By the time we left the building, I felt the same. And I go, wow, this is totally linked. And so I started probing my clients.
And I'm like, hey, you said you only have anxiety or panic attacks on Thursdays. You told me you work from home every day except for Thursday. So are we correlating that the office on Thursday causes the panic attack? Yes. Okay, do a petri dish in your office. Boom, there's the mold.
Oh, so it was that. So there is this kind of mood connection, but that's a whole nother hour. No, I love it, man. We're generating all sorts of good offshoot podcasts. I think that's a great way to wrap it up. Like, don't be afraid. If a doctor tells you you're crazy, you fire that doctor because that sort of invalidation has no place in Western medicine. Doctors don't know it all.
Patients, almost always the patient knows better than the doctor. I can't even tell you how many times in my medical career you hear stories about patients going to doctors and saying, something is wrong. And the doctor says, nothing is wrong. And something is wrong.
eventually they figure out, yeah, something is really wrong. And whether it's a mold exposure or an autoimmune condition related to food or a nutrient deficiency or a GI issue or a parasite or whatever, something was freaking wrong. And that sort of invalidation from Western medicine. is...
It's really, really tragic. So yeah, I appreciate that hugely. And thank you so much for all of your work. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Where can people find you, reach out to you, connect with you if they want to do those things? Sure. Yeah, just check out evanbrand.com. I have a podcast. Dr. Paul was on there. It was amazing. It was actually like one of the first episodes to 20,000 downloads. So that was cool. Your podcast and the one with Stephanie Seneff that we did on glyphosate.
people know people are waking up they're like okay i need good meats and organs here's why i need to get rid of glyphosate so those are like the two trending episodes right now But I've got over 400 episodes. I put out a show every week since 2012. So there's a lot of content.
And you know what's interesting? And I'll say this. I don't know if I've ever told you this. So I was listening to your stuff when I was like in medical school, man. Like, so before this whole path happened for me, like I found your stuff because you were really one of the first people in the quote function.
medicine space and that term gets bandied around a lot and i don't love the term but i think people understand what it means and sometimes you know it is what it is but you are one of the good ones man and i appreciate you greatly and i think that you're doing good work you know, understanding what the root cause of these things is. And it's so important. And I've been listening to your stuff for.
probably yeah seven years now or eight years and so i remember when you were doing that stuff it's like oh this guy's interesting and he's talking about the stuff and then i'm on my journey it's cool that we come back full circle and get to meet here on each other's podcast so that's amazing yeah i'm
Totally honored. And I'm still waiting on your five-star review. I haven't seen a Paul Saladino review. It's just eight years old, man. It's just buried in there. I'll look back. Yeah. Thanks for coming on, brother. I can't wait to talk to you more soon. Thanks for having me.