From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Hey, good evening, wonderful to be here with you, Philly in for the great man Paul Murray. Here on Paul Murray Live. We've got a huge show coming up for you this Sunday night, midway through the King's Birthday long weekend. Watch those Dolda merits. I hope you're having a great time. I know I am. So let us have some fun with all our friends tonight, including Matt Canavan and Darren Barnett.
Might be a little bit of fresh in there. And a little later actually after that, Toroy, we're gonna have Will Kingston. He's gonna pop into the party from London to talk about a lot of nutty stuff happening there.
But first, you know what, I'm gonna get to the incredible scenes from the US in just a few minutes, you know, all those riots in Los Angeles, and also touch on the latest bizarre move by Tony Burke and the alban Ezy government, because there is a lot to say about both these storesries and what they say about the current state of the multicultural agenda and our social cohesion here in the West. And spoiler alert, it's not good,
but you know what, let's deal with some local politics first. Now, just because it's a long weekend doesn't mean the business of government and opposition takes a break. And probably one of the busiest beavers in politics at the moment is none other than Senator James Patterson, the Victorian who's just picked up the shadow finance portfolio with the Susan Lay reshuffle and who is in a way sort of continuing the campaign's spokesman role he had during the election now
going into the fray. This morning, there was Patterson mixing it up with David Spears over at the ABC. The big elephant in the room, of course, was the US and the potential meeting between Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi and US President Donald Trump. In the context of Australia's anemic defense spending, labors need to get a trade deal and the White Houses desire to get more access to our markets while just maybe also getting us to up our game a little bit when it comes to freedom of
speech too. So here's a bit of Patterson talking trade deals with David Spears.
The UK has done a deal with Donald Trump and that involves granting unprecedented access for American beef to the British market.
Are you saying Australia should do that, No, I'm not saying that.
David is essentially saying he should get the deal that Keys Starmer has got without doing what Kistarmer has done to get it.
No, I'm not saying that, David.
I'm just saying that Key Starmer proves that it is possible to get an exemption. It is not an impossible task. And what we ask and expect of the Prime Minister is that he put our best foot forward, that he make those arguments. I have to say, I think that would have been much easier if, like Kistarmer, the Prime Minister had made the effort to go and meet the president earlier than he has.
Now.
It's seven months on since the president was elected, and other world leaders like Kiirstarmer and Emmanuel mccron have made the trip to the United States and I'd met with a president multiple times in multiple forums. The Australian Prime Minister has not yet done so.
And you know what he's right about that the Prime Minister has not gone to Washington. He's only had a couple of phone calls that we know of I suspect he's a little bit nervous about the whole thing. Meanwhile, here on Sky, Trade Minister Don Farrell would not be drawn on the question of whether or not Albo would even wind up getting that meeting with the President at next weekend's G seven sub meeting.
We'll see what happens this time next next weekend.
Who knows anyway. Farrell also said that he had met with US Trade Representative jameson Greer and that well, things went about as well could be expected.
Look, he certainly made it clear that these are ultimately decisions that the President of the United States will make, but he Look, it was a friendly it was a friendly discussion. It wasn't a difficult discussion in terms of the relationship between US.
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he. But there's still a few things that need to be worked out. One, of course, is the question of market access for American beef producers, which was flagged just a moment ago by Senator Patterson. Two, there's a much bigger issue of defense spending. Now we know the Trump administration wants us to go to three point five percent of GDP. The coalition, I think is saying three percent. And we know that this is a very big issue with Donald Trump, because if
there is anything Trump cannot stand, it's a freeloader. And looking on Australia and our anemic defense as well, he might very well think that charge would stick. And then there's another issue though, and this issue doesn't I think get enough play here in Australia because maybe we don't think it's quite as important as they do in America. But let me tell you as an American, they do think it's important. And that's the issue of free speech.
And I really am wondering now if anyone the Trump administration has heard about this next story I'm going to talk about, because I have a feeling that it is the sort of thing that could cause a few issues. It has to do with free speech and a lot more. Now, last night words started going around and this morning the Australian newspaper confirmed it that Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke had canceled the visa of this man, Israeli businessman, entrepreneur
and influencer, Hillel Foold. He's also an American citizen as well. Now this is of course the same Home affair as minister who canceled this visa, who who also presided over bringing in nearly three thousand gozzins that no one I know asked for to be brought here, and who the government claims were ventted properly, although some people questioned that.
And of course it's the same Home Affairs minister who also famously presided over all of those river these the big citizenship factories, I mean citizenship ceremonies in Western Sydney seats in the weeks before the last election, where newly minted Australians were practically handed labor how to vote cards along with their new citizenship certificates and piece of waterle But what's the deal with Hillel Fooled? Why wasn't he allowed if all these other things could happen. Well, he
was apparently too much for Burke. His presidence in Australia was too much, or perhaps more accurately, it was too much for the Palestinian and Muslim pressure groups who organized letter writing and pressure campaigns to stop Fooled from being allowed to come to Australia. Now I'm sure at this point you're asking, well, what is this guy accused of doing? What does he said, what's his story? Why are people so scared of him? Why does Tony Burke intervening stop
him from coming in the country. Well, what has he done that's gotten the activist into such an absolute flap? Well, according to the Australian Home Affairs officials concluded that mister Fold had a documented pattern, they said, of sharing provocative content, including broad attacks on the Palestine identity, denial of documented atrocities in Gaza. Enclaims that large segments of the Buzzim population support terrorism. Unquote, well, I don't know, denial of
documented atrocities. Does that mean that if you don't accept the hamas mystery of health, wildly inflated death tolls, you were suddenly persona non grata in Australia. And in another update reported in the Australian newspaper tonight, now we also learned that the Albanza government is now facing pressure from Washington after US Ambassador Israel Mike Huckabee made a personal appeal to Minister Tony Burke to overturn the visa cancelation.
That's big. Now, back to what Fuld had to say, I don't know about all Muslims, but we do certainly know what Gozins think. In the months after the October seven autrocities, one respected study found that three in four Gozzins supported the attacks. So for this and other reasons, Fuld had his visa polled. And now it's become an international incident with the Americans, just as we are about to go into these crucial trade talks, potentially Mano Almano
with Albanesi and Donald Trump at the G seven. Great timing, Minister Burke, really well done. And of course this cancelation of little Foods visa follows two other Israelis, including a former government minister, having been barred with attending a conference in Australia, a conference that I actually attended at the
end of last year. Now this is all very relevant, I think, not just to our own civil society, because the same government that allowed our capital cities to be filled with radical pro Palestinian demonstrators every week, with some of those people supporting terror groups like Hesblah, Well, this same government seems to have a real problem, a much bigger problem when it comes to Israelis coming to Australia to put their case, their side of the argument on
our soil. I wonder why that is. And again I also wonder if the Trump White House, which has made such a big deal about European countries living up to the ideals of free speech, might also be casting an eye down under a wondering what's going on here where not only do we have an e Safety Commissioner and all sorts of other regimes, but now they don't even want to let this Israeli guy come in and again
make his side of the Israeli case. Well, it's a good question because at the heart of this are questions about deeper questions about multiculturalism and whether this whole project is really working or whether they're in service of an idea that every politician pays lip service to but which no one ever actually had a vote on. We are now going to see ever more restrictions on our liberties in the idea of this wooly concept of social cohesion
that was ultimately what Fold's cancelation was all about. Now New South Wales Premier Chris Mins let the cat out of the bag disgracefully, I think on this some months ago when he made this comment.
So stride doesn't have the phrase bach lows that are in play in America, and for one very important reason, because we have developed a multicultural community where it doesn't matter what your faith or your religion is, you must leave side by side with your neighbor in peace.
I'm sorry, come again now, Look, I mean a multicultural, multi ethnic society is great, and in many ways we do it very well in Australia, better than an awful lot of countries. But at the same time, do you remember ever being asked whether you'd rather trade your right to free speech for multiculturalism a multi ethnic society. I don't because if we're not careful, well, let me show you where we're gonna end up. Have a look at
this picture. It's really dramatic, really striking, kind of beautiful in some sort of way. It was taken in Los Angeles just a few hours ago, where protesters have been all day long squaring off against police and Homeland Security and ICE officials and the Trump administration's immigration raids seeking to deport illegal migrants back to their home countries in accordance with the law. The left doesn't like that very much.
But what do you note about this picture here? Now, our friend, our amigo here is carrying a Mexican flag to protest the deportation of illegal aliens in the United States or from the United States. He's not carrying an American flag. He's not carrying the flag of the country whose promise and dream he wants to be a part of, who these migrants who are going to be deported want
to be a part of. No, he's carrying the flag of the country that he is protesting against people, possibly including himself, being sent back to I don't think it makes a lot of logical sense to you. But there's something more wrong with this too, because what that really represents, I think is separatism. That's the end point of multiculturalism. You may be in America, but your identity is Mexican or Peruvian, or Japanese or Chinese or whatever, not American first.
And it is the end result of years here of undermining American borders and the American ideal by the left end, particularly the Biden administration, which over four years imported millions of people from developing nations around the world. Personally, I believe to help them secure a long term, permanent advantage
for the Democrat Party. Now other scenes have been even more dramatic in La and Donald Trump is now threatening to not only mobilize marines and the National Guard, but also he is talking about cutting federal funds from California. Let's have a look at some of these protests, which
look far from spontaneous. Journalist Anthony Cabasa has been doing some wonderful work on the ground, and here he's captured footage of protesters who are emptying out buckets full of rocks and empty glass and beer bottles and putting some kind of liquid or gas into them. Gosh, God knows what's going on there. It doesn't look good and it also again doesn't look spontaneous. These are not organic protests,
I don't think. Cabasa said he was not sure what the plan was for the bottles, but the rocks were used shortly after to be thrown at the police. And he also captured this extraordinary footage too, of rioters trying to burn down buildings in La Let's have just a little look. Yes, very nice there, and here's protesters firing large rocks at the cops. Again, well we know where this is going. Of course, eventually non lethal munitions were authorized.
Here's a protester being carried away from the front Line. Meanwhile, someone else captured this footage of demonstrators posing in front of a burning automobile holding again, Mexican flags. How's your melting pot going there, California. I mean, that doesn't look very much like a nicely integrated society to me. No, those are the sort of scenes that you know, it's pretty hard to avoid this word, but you know, it
looks like the scenes from an invasion. And amazingly, the Los Angeles Police Department has issued a statement about today's and I'm not kidding. Yes, this is what they said in the thing peaceful protests. That's right, they did the CNN thing. Anyway, this is where it all leads what
you're seeing in California. If a nation doesn't stand up for the idea of itself, you have loss of freedoms, well like we do here, and that leads to division, separatism, and of course these sorts of scenes fixing the problem, shutting off the illegal immigrations, bigot, and undoing the damage of the Biden administration. Now you can see this is clearly Donald Trump's number one domestic policy goals. He knows,
he understands that this represents an existential crisis. Left unchecked for America and the Americans who voted him into office, Well, you know what they agree. Look at this. This was a poll that was taken just before last year's election. It found that eighty six percent of Republicans and fifty eight percent of independence said yes, mass deportations the sort of thing that these people are protesting against in California, these mass deportations. That's what we're here for, that's what
we're voting for. That's what we want. And it's that majority of Democrats on the other side, seventy five percent of that we've disagreed with the idea, who now seem intent on stopping not only the deportations, but the democratic will of the people from being enacted. And as I have been warning on this program and others for months now, they are promising another return to the twenty twenty style
Black Lives Matter, Summer of Love riots in response. And you know what I told you so, because it looks like it's already arrived. Hey. Now joining me now from the UK is Will Kingston, host of The Spectator Australia's Fire at Will podcast. Will great to have you here. Thank you so much for joining me. Tonight here. I've just been speaking here about the social cohesion problems that we have in the US and in Australia and different
sort of ways that's manifesting themselves. But I wanted to talk to you about this other story which I found really disturbing out of the UK, where Prevent, which is an anti terror government body, has decided now that people who are conservatively minded on the right and who believe things that are of the sort of thing that a lot of people who are watching the show probably thinks sounds perfectly sensible, like Western culture is under threat for
mass migration and lack of integration, Well that people like this are somehow threats, bigger threats and should somehow be re educated. Will tell me about this and what's going on here in Britain, because didn't the Prime mister Kiir Starmra see something very similar to this the other day when he said the nation was becoming an island of strangers.
Yes, he did, in one of the most cynical plays that I can recall from a politician, given that he's been an open borders multiculturalism advocate for his entire career. James, it is interesting and it gets me thinking about this have we reached the end of work conversation. I'm speaking to Andrew Doyle tomorrow. He's saying that we have reached the end of work. Pars Morgan's got a book out
saying pretty much the same thing. My argument would be, I don't think we are because you look at potties like this, these sorts of quangos, these semi governmental organizations.
Even if the politicians like kiss Darma start saying the bleeding obvious that multiculturalism has failed, in fact hasn't worked wherever it's been tried, and I include Australia in that you still have this layer of the bureaucracy in dark corners of Westminster or in Canberra that will conte he knew to push this sort of ideology often outside of
the view of the politicians. And this is why I think, you know, particularly as we look to the future, we've got to start thinking about that sort of administrative layer that sits in Camera, that sits in the US, that sits in the UK, that will keep pushing this sort of divisive stuff because they're still committed to it, even if the politicians are now realizing, particularly in the UK, that this multicultural ideology is electrically toxic.
Well, and you know it's really funny, Will, because this sort of thing, that sort of thinking manifests itself in so many ways. I mean, Sunday nights, we should have a little bit of lightheartedness here, at least Sunday night here. But there was a story that just shows how the sort of the rat of all of this sort of thing, this sort of thinking goes, and how deep it goes.
It touches everything. You know, the Michelin Guides, the restaurant guide that gives you a stars star ratings, you know, and all the chefs want of everyone's going to the Michelin starts. Well, now they're being urged to decolonize and being told that they're racist. And I also thought this was pretty funny for you know, an organization that rates restaurants that generally costs like five hundred one thousand bucks ahead to go to they're being accused of being a leanist.
I mean, tell me about this.
Yeah, welcome to another edition of What's Racist This Week? And these is the stories they pop up every week. Now, you know, diets are racist, or punctuality is racist, or climate change is racist, And whenever these stories pop up, I do think, how can someone's psychology bring them to
such a silly argument? And the best answer I can come to is for radical identity politics leftists, race and identity politics more generally is the only prism through which they see the world, so they naturally assume that other people must only see the world through that lens. It's an entire monocusal way of looking at things, and we
don't live in a monocusal world. There is a completely obvious alternative explanation here, and that is the Michelin Guide doesn't operate in places like Africa or India, or in Australia, I might add, because those tourism boards haven't forked out the money in order for Michelin to establish themselves there. But the left doesn't see it that way. It has
to be racism, it can't be an alternative. So whenever I have this conversation with one of these fruit loops, the first thing is you will just ask are there any other alternative explanations for why this is happening as opposed to racism? And look, they probably won't change their views, but at least you've tried to do everything you possibly can to try and get them to think in a more logical way.
Well, you know, there's a great illargicality at the heart of this will because one of the words that the critics of the Michelin Guide use is that word decolonize, and we hear this word all the time, but of course it's got this sort of sinister sort of implication because it also kind of says that, well, people are connected to terrory is And you know, on the one hand, the left seems to want this sort of free movement of people, everybody, you know, all around the world, and
at the same time they also believe that everybody has this kind of like patch of earth that is theirs, and nobody can cook like people do on that patch of earth, and nobody has a right to live there
and settle there. And it seems to me that when you start talking about decolonization, whether it's Israel and you know, all of the horror, horrible violence has been done in the name of decolonizing you know, that part of the world, or just in something silly like a restaurant guide, there's a real fundamental problem because it doesn't make sense these two competing ideas.
Well, James, if you're looking for logical, coherent leftist argument, I think you're probably right in an idea place now, yeah, and I think there is there is probably in fairness an argument that we need to just keep in mind here for places like the Telegraph, this is where I saw that story and other center right news organizations, which is, it isn't hard to find one looney academy meek in
a university somewhere who's promoting this nonsense. And I think you can then actually start to give it more credence than it actually deserves. This is still not a mainstream view and despite the fact, and on what I think it probably speaks to more is the ideological corruption of our universities across the West.
Exactly right. And I mean, I'm glad you mentioned the universities. We've seen Donald Trump taking on the university and I think he's had right to do so for that. But you know, just back to Britain. Let's stick on Britain, because that's where you are right now. I have been absolutely shocked that Britain, which was such the leader of the Enlightenment around free speech and ending the idea of blasphemy laws and ending that sort of interference in private conscience.
They've prosecuted a man for burning a Kuran, which may be an ugly act, but they've prosecuted him in such a way that now people are saying, well, this is tantamount now to a an Islamic blasphemy law, because you're defaming, you're burning their holy book. Therefore that's blasphemous to them. So you're imposing a religious law on the British civil common law. Tell us about this because what I've read here seems very disturbing. Am I right to be disturbed? Will? Yeah?
Of course you are, So this is blasphemy laws by the back door. I was shocked, actually to learn that blasphemy laws are only decriminalized in the United Kingdom in two thousand and eight. But that followed centuries and centuries of classical liberals making the argument that on balance, it's better for people to be allowed to do and say potentially distasteful things, because on balance, that is better than having a government tell you what you can and cannot say.
The uncomfortable truth here, James, is that the share of the Islamic population in the United Kingdom has risen overwhelmingly in a very short space of time, and that trend is due to continue. And as a result of that, you have politicians on both sides of the political spectrum who are now abrogating the traditional principles of Western liberal democracies, number one of which is free speech in favor of
appealing a Muslim vote. There are several politicians in the United Kingdom today who are at risk of losing their seats to Islamic candidates and as a result of that, that's why you're starting to see this sort of appeasement take place. It's incredibly disturbing. I personally don't think that Islam in aggregate is compatible with a Western liberal democracy, and you're seeing more and more examples of that in
the United Kingdom today. And unfortunately, there aren't enough politicians who have either the intellect or the courage to be able to stand up and offer an alternative vision. And that vision is of Western liberal democracy, which the United Kingdom, I would argue, has done more than any other country to promote in recent times. This is a very very sad state of affairs.
I know, when you think about mill and Lock and all of the philosophers who came through and granted us this, this great inheritance, and we're torturing it at a rate of Nazi. Well, before I let you go, a little funny things happening here in Australia. We are in the middle of the King's Birthday long week and I don't actually think it is the King's Birthday tomorrow, but we get this holiday. And I understand that you guys over
in the UK don't what's happening here. Are we subjects here in Australia actually greater monarchists than the all in the UK.
I actually didn't know that we didn't get the King's Birthday holiday in the UK. That's something which is a bit frustrating for me. But look, I think the monarchy is actually in pretty rude health in the United Kingdom at the moment. I think if you put Andrew, Meghan and Harry to one side, I think the monarchy is strong. I think that the one thing that I would say is is that they need to be cognizant, and particularly
Charles needs to be cognizant of politicizing the role. And you are hearing a few murmurs that he's sort of, you know, woke, eco friendly ideology is maybe starting to infiltrate the way that he governs and the sentiment that he puts forth to the nation. Also out his way that he's appears to be sympathizing to Islamic members of the country in a way that he is not doing as the defender of the faith of the Christian population.
So it'll be interesting to see what happens there. But on balance, I still think the monarch's relatively safe in the UK for now. Well, Charles the first situation at.
Least that's good to hear, and the king is also, i would say, probably one of the best dress monarchs we've had in a very long time. Well, we're gonna have to leave it there, thanks so much. We'll enjoy our long weekend down here, and don't go away because after the break we've got Matt Canavan and Darren Barnett. We're gonna have a little bit of biff after the break. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the program. James Morrow sitting in here tonight for Paul Murray Live now. Thrilled to be joined
here by our all star panel. On my right, ironically, if he should be on the left is former Labor Advisor Darren Barnett, and we've also got National Senator Matt Canneman. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me this evening here in the middle of this King's Birthday weekend. Now, I want to talk you know, a little bit serious stuff.
I've got a lot of fun stuff to talk about, but you know, we do have to talk a bit about policy where things are going to wind up landing out of the whole election, which we were just talking about off here. One story that has been catching my eye here is this talk about tax reform, because we've heard an awful lot about what's going to happen with
this super tax. Now James Patterson today, who I mentioned earlier in the program, he was also talking about tax reform and what might get the coalition to come to the table. Have a look at this.
If the Albanezi government and the Treasurer Jim Chalmers were talking about genuine tax reform, holistic tax reform across the board that for example, reduced the collection of taxes in inefficient areas and collected that rev you in less distortionary ways, we'd be up for that conversation. We'd be happy to sit down and have that, but that's not what this is.
Matt Canavan. I want to throw to you first on this one here. I mean, I think it's good to see that the Coalition is starting to get its act together in terms of policy. We won't have the discussion about where those policies were before the election just now, but you know, just to take this principle further, Matt, what are your thoughts on this idea that well, the Coalition can actually work with the government on tax reform
if there's something positive to come out of it. Because we know they've been a lot of tax reviews and recommendations by the Head Review of the Productivity Commission over years, but we've never been able to get it. Is there a sense that maybe possibly you can get some tax reform eventually in this country? Again, well, I.
Perhaps wouldn't be holding my breath just yet, James. It's been a long time since we've done really fundamental tax reform in this country. We have done it before, of course, and the GST was introduced in the nineteen nineties. That stood the test of time, and Tony Abbat did launch a tax white paper, but unfortunately that was ended early when Malcolm Turnbull became Prime Minister, and there hasn't really
been a serious attempt it since. I suppose you could say that mining tax was an example, but that was a tax increase, and I would draw that distinction. I don't believe tax reform amounts to tax increases. That's what this supertax does. It's an increase in tax to people. Some people like to then co op the word reform to hide the fact that it's actually a tax increase. But what we'd be serious about looking at is a more efficient tax system, not a higher burden on the
Australian people tax system. And if I could just float one idea that I've been paying on for some time, I do think our tax system should be made more family friendly. Too often we do focus on tax reform just about the economy and GDP and productivity and all those things are important, but the most important thing in your life or my life, and I think most people's
lives are the children. And we don't have a tax system that really encourages people to spend more time with their children, especially in the way we punish single income families who want to look after especially young children in their in their early years, which is so important for their formation.
Yeah, I mean, Matt, I think you're talking about income splitting or something sort of along those lines, but something like that, something like that, Yeah, I mean, and a lot of countries do that. The United States, you can do that. And you know, Darren, let me throw this to you. You know, from the labor perspective, the thing that has found I've found really strange about this whole super tax debate, which keeps going on and on, is again, you know, there's a long labor history of tax reform
making the system more efficient. Paul Keating was great at that. This tax seems to be, you know, as Matt says, just about raising more tax and more revenue. But also it's so small, it's so nugatory, and it to be sort of like the minerals resource red tax, I'm sure, which barely raised a thing before it was asked, why is it so important? Why does this become the die in the day, which issue, particularly for Jim Chalmers.
I'm not sure that it was ever intended to be, and the evidence of that is that it wasn't a big issue in the election campaign. It's become a big issue now because there's not a lot else to talk about.
But they tried to get this tax through in the last parliament and then there was a lot of conferency around it, and then they left it sort of to fall by the way side.
But they didn't take it off the table. And I'm really surprised, genuinely surprised. This was not something that the Coalition campaigned on heavily during the election campaign. They got stuck on other things. This should have been This is a debate that we should have been having during the five weeks before people voted, not now, and I'm really surprised that we didn't.
Well, I mean, Matt, what do you say to that? I mean, why didn't there Why wasn't there more talk about this during the campaign?
What's a bit like now, isn't it. I think Garen's advice is is going, but I can't do much with it. It's done now, so I think. Look, I think what happened was Darren did mention. It was put forward in the last parliament and it was fairly resoundingly dismissed by the cross bench, the Senate cross bench. I don't think any of the cross benches ended up supporting it. For a memory, the Grand the Greens had a tougher plan that they did, so they didn't support the govern either.
And I think because it got defeated so resoundingly, it sort of went off the agenda like this is not going to happen. Potentially, no one perhaps was forecasting that the Senate would change so much as it has at the election, given our lackluster result, the coalition's lackluster results. So now that the government has the numbers with the Greens, as I said, which was not an expected outcome, the threats of this super tax has grown since the election.
I think that explains why it's come back into the debate so strongly.
Yeah, and I think that's right. I also just think there's a general principle in there the people who are just generally scared about because once you do this, god knows what comes next. Hey matter, I'm not all right, fear.
We know you Look at the twenty nineteen campaign, the attacking franking credit changes that Bill Shorten was proposing. It's a very successful way to campaign and in negative campaigns work. Whether we think that's a.
Good well, I mean, Labor certainly was no stranger to the negative campaign of course this time around.
But it just didn't the negative campaign that we saw in the five weeks leading up to the election. It just was the wrong kind of It just didn't quite work.
But I do agree with what right.
I don't agree with what Matt says about the lineup of the Senate. No one was anticipating. There's two avenues now it's the Coalition for some things, Greens for other things, the cross Bench itself. They're going to struggle for relevance I think in the next three years, which we will say what that means in the long way.
Yeah, I think that's an interesting I think that's an interesting point. And MATTER want to stick with you too, because you were talking about numbers. There's another number here which is oddly very important. Twenty six and twenty six is the number of votes that are left in it between Giselle cap Terran, who was hoping to get back that get that liberal seat of Bradfield, and Nicolette b Well, the Teal candidate. Now there is now talk about legal options.
There's now talk about going to the Court of Disputed Returns here, Matt Canevan, I mean I know that this is being discussed behind the scenes within the coalition. But what can you tell us where is this going to land? Is this seat now gone or will the coalition? Do you think the Liberals will or should try and take this further or perhaps E would have I don't know a redo with the election.
Look, it will come down to the specifics of the ballots that we're in dispute, which I don't have that information. There is a precedent for a challenger in the circumstances the Labor Party challenge the Liberal Parties win in McEwen in two thousand and seven. The Liberal Party had won that seat by thirty one votes, so a little bit a little bit more, not much more, but a little bit more than this margin says a prison for that challenger.
Although unfortunately for the Liberal Party thinking of challenging this, the Labor Party lost that challenge when the court looked at all the ballots and actually the margin grew during the case.
So look, it does show though that the court.
Will look at the disputes and will potentially rein interrogate. Like in any scrutineering process, is always going to be a set of ballots where there's a dispute about whether that's formal or not, whether the voter has clearly given their intention to vote consistent with the law. So so look, it will come down on whether there's enough of those ballots in dispute to overturn that margin of victory or defeat in the case of the Liberals. But as I said,
there's a prison there for it. I've just got to look at whether they think they're going to win or not.
Yeah, I mean, just plea a little bit. What Tim Wilson, who did take his own seat of Goldstein back from the tills, how quickly would he had say.
Today it's a quite unusual thing to occur, had a account and then a partial recount in Goldstein and had delivered the same ultimate results, slightly different numbers, but the same ultimate result. So I think they're studying it very closely, and really it's a decision for her because it's a big decision obviously, not just to go through that process in a legal context, but then depending on what the court decides, potentially also a by election as well.
Darren Barnett, your thoughts.
My understanding is that there were a lot of a lot of the moderate part of the Liberal Party in New South Wales they really focused on that seat. That was their kind of their line in the sand. And immediately after the election there were a lot of scrutiniers' experienced scrutinies on the liberal side, not so much on
the Teal side. And so it wasn't that surprising that the result turned because I think quite a few ballots that were ruled out of order when the Teals had better scrutinieres the second time around, and when there was.
A more it shifted back the other way back.
That's my understanding on why that's occur.
It's fascinating to me because you know so much about this these elections. When they come down to it, it really is people looking at the pieces of paper and if you remember the year two thousand, the hanging chads in Florida.
Or it's yeahs bits of piper and is.
That a one? Is that a two? Who knows you well out of the let's take a little break here, We're going to be back after the break. I want to talk about do South Wales the Tomago aluminum smelter and what net zero is going to do to our economy with Matt Canavan Darren Barnett. After the break stick around. Hey, welcome back to the program. James Borrow here sitting in for Paul Murray Live. Now let's get into a story. Matt. We've been keeping it around because I want to talk
about this story with you all day. In factors as I read about it, the Tomago aluminum smelter aluminium. Sorry, that's my American accent getting me again. Apparently there is now a huge issue and who didn't see this com Well, they are now in talks with the owners, are now and talks with federal and state governments about a multi billion that's billion with a b dollar bailout to keep
the operation going. The AFR has talked to people said that they're apparently they're looking to get the smelters lubmit contract, the electricity contract from twenty six to twenty nine sorted out with big subsidies to keep it going. Of course, smelting aluminium is a hugely expensive process when it comes to the electricity and power and reliable power that you need, Matt Canavan, this takes up ten percent of the New
South Wales grid. Keeping this going, you can't stop it otherwise the whole thing seizes up and it's a disaster. This is just another casualty, and in fact, the taxpayer's pocketbook is going to be another casualty of this push to net zero, isn't it.
Well, yes it is, James, and it's also exhibit A for why the government's renewables on energy approach is not going to work. I mean, we will, promised by Rio Tinto, who's the majority owner there are the Tomogo aluminium smelter. They promised us, as did the government, that by investing in renewables, that's what I wanted to do. Investing in renewable energy to replace the coal fired power that has powered successfully the Tomogo oliminum smelter for decades would be cheaper.
It would be cheaper, it'd be better, and it would continue to run and make sure that the thousands of jobs that rely on that smelter continuing would would have a future life.
Well, now we've got to this point.
Rio Tinto has been spending the last few years running tenders to try and get this mythical green energy online. They've obviously been unsuccessful, and it's now going to be up apparently to all of your viewers, your hard working viewers and their taxes to bail out one of the biggest companies in the world, Rio Tinto, to the tune of a billion dollars. I mean, has there ever been a bigger fiasco, a bigger policy fiasco in this country than net zero and the ridiculous pursuit of renewable energy.
It is costing this country a fortune. We are losing our industry, we're losing our wealth, We're losing our birthright to have low power prices in the country with the most energy resources per person anywhere in the world, all thanks to this ridiculous insanity. So why aren't we just instead of paying Rio Tinto, of all companies, remember the Labor Party one of the tax Rea Tinto back in the day. Now they want to give them potentially a
billion dollars. Instead of giving them a billion dollars, why don't we just build a qualified POWERstation and they can continue to run Tomago Eluminium snotet like they used to, and pay us money for the privilege of doing it, and keep employing those high paying jobs and pay taxes to fund their public services. That seems like a whole lot more sense than this money go round where we tax hard working people to subsidize industries that previously could stand on their own at two feet.
Well, Darren Barnette, that makes an awful lot of good points there, But I want to pick up on one of them, which is, you know, why not actually call We dig Call out of the ground. We sell it to China, We sell it to China in greater amounts, we sell it to Indonesia, we sell it around the world. If it's good enough for these other countries, why can't we use it here?
I think we should have. And this is the first time that I've dealt with Matt Canavan was about the pr RT in about twenty fifteen that led to the Callahan Review that was done by Scott Morwson. But I think we get that side of the equation wrong as well. I really don't understand why Labor hasn't made some alterations to the p RRT to better capture taxation revenue from the l sector. But to answer your question, I think politically labor must find a way, and I don't know
what we find a way. If they've backed in future made in Australia, if they want these seats in the Hunter, the Illawara, they don't hold Gladston. But you know they have that very at the certainly too as at seven they held Flynn. Labour needs to find a way to deliver on its future made in Australia and keeping those smelters open. We only have four of them left. Keeping those smelters open and the unionized jobs is a mixture
of AWU and AMWU. There is big incitive for labor to deliver for those communities and deliver on their promises. So we have to wait and see what they're going to come up.
Well, I would add the missing piece that I'm sorry, Matty you want I've just said, matt though, just before you go.
That's so great, but let's just do it.
Let's just build a coali If those jobs are so important, If those are I agree with you, they're good.
Can't paying at union jobs in those smelters.
And if you care about workers and you care about the trade unions in this country, white, an't you allow us to use our own coal instead of those same ed Gladston there and in the Hunters two tom agoes not too far from the port, those workers can see the Australian coal getting shipped out overseas to power their
aluminium smelters in China. What an insult to those workers that their jobs are getting it literally shipped off offshore at the moment through this ridiculous policy where we empower our economic competitors with our own energy resources and deny energy resources to ourselves.
And it makes absolutely no sense.
Is impoverishing this country and we need to end at zero.
And not only that, I would just add before we wan to the next topic here that this also is a national security issue. If we cannot make things, if we cannot make steel, if we cannot make the base products aluminium of an industrial society, that we are very very weak in a very competitive and dangerous world. Hey, just before we move on, I wanted to talk about, you know, another story here though which I don't even
know what to make of this. Greta Tundberg has switched herself from environmentalists out there protesting all of mat Canavan's coal plants to protesting, obviously for the Palestinian cause. She's now on a sixty foot yacht apparently bound for Gaza. Now, Israel is kind of in a bit of a diliver here. They don't know what to do, They don't want to Land. But if they start for it's going to be just
a huge international, is it. Matt? What do you make of Greta Tunberg's switch from green to green, white, red and black?
Look, James, which you've got to understand about the activist movement is it's a business. Well, the professionals in the game, and I would probably class Greta as one of those.
The professionals.
They don't particularly care about the individual environmental or other political issue they're campaigning on. What they do is they pick issues which are topical, which generate heat and more importantly for themselves, which make sure people contribute donations to their business. And you see it time and time again with the green and as you said, green, white and black, green, was it black and red movement where they'll just pick a new topic as soon as one topic dies, in
this case, climate Chang's gone off. Their general big gone off, the boil bang, they move onto another one.
We gotta move on, Darren, Yes or no? Should Israel letter Land? Yes or no? Question? No, absolutely not. Okay, we got to go to a break here. I'm back in a moment. Thank you so much, Matt Canavan and Darren Barnett stick around more Paul Murray Live after the break. Welcome back to the program. James Borrow here sitting in for Paul Murray Live, and a reminder the great Man is back here in the man Cave tomorrow night, so
you're not going to want to miss him. But before I go, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Elon Musk, who's of course massive meltdown and tantrum this week made headlines around the world, but I think people are missing some of the deeper meaning of this because, of course Elon Musk has his own tech bro libertarian philosophy that is at odds with Donald Trump's
bag of nationalism. And this piece of news has just crossed my desk, which I think is very interesting and goes a little bit to this point, as well as
Frank also being absolutely hilarious. Yes, listen to this. It seems that Elon Musk, who was until five seconds ago considered a z Hiling fascist by the left, which was making all sorts of excuses for their demonstrators and activists to go out and torch cars and key cars and burn down his dealerships, well it looks like now suddenly because he's had this huge fight with Donald Trump, some of the left now to think, hey, hey, hey, hey, why do we turn it around and make Elon into
a Democrat? Now I love this Here, California Democrat Congressman Roe Quhana is on the case, saying of Musk, we should ultimately be trying to convince him that the Democratic Party has more of the values that he agrees with, a commitment to science funding, a commit i've been too clean technology, a commitment to seeing international students like him.
Oh bless Look, this is absolutely hilarious because Democrats like Alexandria O Casio Cortes have for the last year been doing things like calling Elon a Nazi ever since he teamed up with Donald Trump. Now, frankly, I don't think he will flip Democrat, But if Elon Musk does, this is going to be the fastest denotification program we've seen since Operation paper Clip, which, ironically, if you're familiar with that, also involved rocket scientists. Now stick around, Paul's going to
be back tomorrow. But now it's over to Caroline Russo and the Royal Report by I