From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
Hey here we are folks, big Monday night, after the first day of the week. That wasn't so bad, now was it? James Morrow here sitting in tonight and for the next two weeks for the great man himself on Paul Murray Live. Thanks for being here. And you know what, here's a bit of good news for you. Chalk one
up for the good guys. This sort of our friends at Wooli's, you know, the guys who have our best interests at heart, have been overtaken by a new flush of patriotism, it seems, and just in time for the Paris Olympics, where I'm hoping it's not too late to get molotov cocktail making and tear gas dodging in as a few late entry sports. Now, my colleague at the Daily Telegraph and Ghira Brajewadg reports that Woolies will again
start selling the Australian flo I know too. I suppose let us deck out our lounge rooms for all those Olympics viewing parties in a few weeks time now. With the twenty twenty four olymp Paraslympics beginning later this month, and as a proud Australian retailer, we are pleased once again, they said to be the official fresh food partner of the Australian Olympic and Paralympic teams. Will were said in
a statement to staff. Now given the Australian flag is the official flag of the Australian Olympic Committee and of course our team competing in Paris, a locally made handheld Australian flag made from long lasting materials such as timber and polyester, will also be available to customers Lucky Us to purchase across our supermarkets and selected Metro stores. Well, I have to ask myself, will Woollies also go back to celebrating Australia Day. I think we'll have to wait
five or six months to answer that question. But I tell you what, I think I already know the answer already. And also color me cynical here, but I wonder does this snap decision announced in an all staff announcement that
was sure to be handed to the press. Well again, I might just be a little too jaded, but this feels like something that they came up with in the Woolies c suite to head off Peter Dutton's attacks on the supermarket giants, attacks like this one, which he made just on the weekend at the Liberal National Party convention in Brisbane.
For too long, there's been a lack of competitive pressure on the big supermarkets. I have many decades the big chins have exploited their growing market power. They forced many of the independent and smaller supermarkets out of the market or bought them up. Today were Worth, Cole's and Eldie control seventy four percent of the market. In contrast, the three big supermarket chains in the US and the UK control about thirty to forty percent of the market in
those countries. With market dominance to Australia's big supermarkets of mistreated farmers and supplieres. Within sufficient competition, there's been little incentive for Australi's big supermarkets to lower prices for consumers, even during Labour's cost of living crisis, which has seen food prices go up by over eleven percent.
And you know what he's right. Today in the Australian Robert guard Lives and talked about what he expects from the review into supermarket pricing. He says that he believes the review will find, among other things that the gross supermarket margins, calls Wilworth and others parade to the politicians
are not worth a bag of beans. He also said that insufficient investment has been made in the supply chain, including temperature controls, leading to incredible waste which need to be fixed, and the rewards of this investment need to
be shared with suppliers, particularly smaller suppliers and customers. In other words, he said, there's growing people customers, you and me, suppliers often farmers and primary producers, and of course making it impossible for competitors to get into the market, shoring up their position. Now this is fascinating to me because Dottin is putting the Liberals once the big end of town party, on the side of the little guy, as Benzi's once put it the forgotten Australians. So what's Labour's
answer to this? Are they going along with it? Ah glib sound bites.
It looks like we're now going to have an intervention where one would assume in the town here, if Woolley's will be forced to sell guests's gonna buy Colls or will we have a nationalized supermarket chain. This isn't a supermarket policy. It's a super Marxist policy.
Super Marxist. Yes, we see we did their Prime Minister, what a zinger. But will that bring prices down? I don't think so. Look, I'm all for free markets, but a duopoly that lobbies hard to maintain its market share using government protection and regulation while screwing people down the line is hardly real red and tooth and claw capitalism. It's big corporatism, the sort of thing that in the banking sector of previous labor Prime Minister Paul Keating sought
to bust up Food for Thought Albo. Now, before I bring in our first guest tonight, can I bring you the latest from the Joe Biden chronicles. Look, we all know about the Horror Show debate, and however, since that went down, the man has been trying to convince us. Hey, I'm okay, folks. Well, let's check in on how that effort's going, shall we. On Sunday, Joe Biden decided to go to church, and not just any church, a historically
black church in Philadelphia. Joe Biden has of course told us many many times over a year over the years that he grew up in the black church. So let's see, he must be pretty comfortable in that sort of environment. Yes, let that spirit move you, mister president. And then there was this bizarre moment. Just watch it on your screen. Here. What you see right now is the pastor of the church giving the president money that he can then go and take down to the collection plate as if he
was a child. I mean, seriously, watch him. Is he okay there? Well, I think we know the answer to that. I mean, Joe Biden has claimed that he is a regular Mass goer, that he used to go to black churches after going to Mass, and hell, I bet you could find instances if he had dug into the records far enough where he claimed that he grew up going to Hindu temples and Shinto shrines if you went back into the records. But you'd think there'd be some basic
familiarity then with facilities such as the collection plate. But this is not all. It also turns out that for some time, Joe Biden's events staff have been forced to use some pretty detailed instructions to get him through events. Check this out. According to Newside Axios, which once upon a time was one of Biden's biggest defenders, the president's staff prepare a short document with large print and photos that include his precise path to a podium, according to
an event template the White House sends to staffers. According to Axios, one staffer reported, quote, I staffed a simple fundraiser at a private residence, but they treated it like it was a NATO summit with his movements. The staffer went on to say, quote, it surprised me that a seasoned political pro like the President would need detailed verbal and visual instructions on how to enter and exit a room.
Of course, this is Joe Biden we're talking about, and I know the consensus is that Joe Biden is out of the race and it's just a matter of time, and that because it's the legally and politically easiest thing to do, Kamala Harris will take over and lead the Democrats to an ignominious defeat anyway, even if the party is, as she says, unburdened by what has been. But let's
just have a little note of caution here. Elections that looked like the rights to win have a habit of going the other way at the last minute these days. Just look at France, where a voting system that was installed by Charles de Gaull after World War II to keep the Communists out of power, has now brought them closer to power. The left is very adept gaming systems, and when they want to win, they pull out all
the stops, not just in France but around the world. Meanwhile, again over to Axios, it seems that Congressional Democrats are doing their damnedest to prevent a Republican bill demanding that voters provide proof of citizenship to register to vote in federal elections from becoming law. Now to me, this seems like a pretty sensible proposal. I can't think of any reasons why someone would be against it. Well, there's maybe
one reason. Anyway, It's not what a lot of people want to hear, but that Trump victory is going to be a lot harder fought than I think a lot of folk on the right realize. Don't get cocky. Now, let's get into all this in the day's News with Sky News contributor Sam Crosby, Great to have you here at the desk and National Senator Matt Canavan. Welcome to you both. Something for both parties in the latest news poll, Labor have all the have the important two party preferred
lead fifty one forty nine. But coalition, the Coalition has taken the lead in New South Wales which is important for their re election efforts. Matt, Matt Canavan, tell me who is the happier party right now looking at these poll results.
Well, look, I mean I think the Labor Party, the first term lib of government, has to be nervous. As you say, the Coalition's not in the lead in the polls, but it's very very close and for any first term opposition that gives you a bit of hunger. There's a lot of unity on our side of politics. We've got to I think a leader that's taken an ambitious agenda on nuclear energy in particular, so there's something to drive
for and pursue here. And certainly this next election is very close, so it could be anyone's for the taking.
So I think that gives the opposition some hope here.
And it is a bit unusual, just two years in a government for it to be so so close at this stage. It's close than it was in Rudd's first term at this stage. It got closer much closer into the election.
Then, and so you know, you've got to look at why that's the case.
And I went back and read Anthony Alberanneze's victory speech in preparation for this evening, and you know, he made a few promises there, none of which basically have come true. He ended, if he promised to end the climate wars, we're still larking about energy because he hasn't delivered his twildred and seventy five dollars cut to power prices.
He promised a voice, obviously late and object valure.
We promised even to strengthen man care about building rights for a record lows. He did talk a lot about the fact he came from public housing, but you know, I don't think many people thought that the promise was that people would be forced into public housing or no housing thanks to his government.
I don't think they count that one as a promise. Cam.
Yeah, no, fair enough to Sam. One of the things that strikes me about these poll results is that they come on the back of weeks when labor has been forced to talk about themselves and they have all of these things out there. You know that they're trying to sell to people, but it seems like no one seems to care about the much type Stage three tax cuts. You know, can we get our money back please? On all those ads they sold us, Hey you're getting the
tax becaut Thank you Labor for all of that. But you know, it seems like they're talking too much about themselves and not about enough about what people are going through.
Look quite probably, quite possibly, I think that's one of the reasons that the Prime Minister was so annoyed at the senator payments distraction in the news fight at the point that we were talking about the Stage three tax cuts. You know, we ended up having to talk for days and weeks now about you know, the potential new party and an independent Senate and all the rest of it. I think, you know, to be fair, I think MAT's right. I think this is a poll that will make a
number of people in the government nervous. There is some good news in there for Labor. Albow is still a preferred prime minister everywhere but Queensland. Now that's a problem because there is a couple of seats that we need to hold on to in Queensland that are under a threat. But I think they will take some comfort in being ahead in all those other states and quite companably. But
look to Matt's point about first term governments. You go back to Bob Hawk eighty four, John Howard in ninety six, Kevin Rudd slash Julie Gillard twenty eleven, and then Malcolm Tenble twenty sixteen. First term governments are normally pretty bad
at getting re elected that first time. It's normally a lot closer when the reality seeing home to people that they tossed the old government out, the new government comes in and you know, the sun comes up and it's the same old country and things are hard to change. So traditionally first term governments don't go that well.
Yeah, look that's fair said. But I think, Matah, what's that, Matt.
Well, I was just going to say that. I think the difference here is one. This has been close now for a while. It often gets closer close to the election, which I mentioned Kevin Rudd's situation had and Bob Hawk wasn't close until he called the election.
He called it a bit early and people seem to take a front at that.
But the other issue here is that the Anthony Alberanezi governor, and he has a couple of seat majority, only came.
To government with the one seat majority. Have won to buy elections since.
But now those other governments, the first terme governments have tended to have a bit more of a buffer. So I think that's why the government be quite nervous here. They kind of need to win seats somewhere to stay in the majority, because.
I mean, that's important to say. One of the things that I'm curious about too is the drift that we see now to the LEF with the Greeds. You've got to eighteen to thirty four. Is eighteen thirty five's shifting massively now to the Greeds. That's got to be a big concern because you're going to start to pull the party a part at both ends here if you're not careful.
Yeah.
Look, this is something that the Labor Party's been struggling with for twenty something years now. We don't have a good answer for it yet, you know, we play whack a mole. The problem is that when the Green's win lower House seats, they tend to be pretty hard to extract from them, and we you know, I think the truth is we haven't got a great answer for how we deal with them. I think facing up to the core issues that attract Green's voters like climate change, like housing.
More and more, I think it's moved away from refugee and climate change now I think it's gone to housing. I think that's got to be the answer, actually dealing with not the political policies and the bubble or the noise and the politics, but actually figuring out how do we get that generation of Australians into their own home.
If not, I think, I think Sam, you have hit on something there, you said just a moment ago. The shift has been from climate and all that, which are fairly conceptual issues, to housing, which is the real thing. I think the first side of the politics that solves this housing issue gives young people a chance onto the house of the ladder. They will lock in a generation. That's just my thought. But you know who listens to me.
You do.
We're here on Palmery Live. Anyway. Let's move on to another issue, and it's an issue that just won't go away for labor, immigration detention. Now, there's a new report today from The Australian that the Federal Court has quote convened a special panel of judges to tackle a new wave of constitutional challenges engulfing the legal system in the wake of the NZYQ decision unquote. This means that next month, guess who is going to be the main character of
the government's dramas again our old friend Andrew Giles. Sam. But he had a chance when this issue went to the back burner to relatively quietly shelve him, get him out of the way, at least take a scalp show is doing something, and he didn't, and it might hurt him again that he's still got Giles there. What do you think should you have let Giles go? No?
I think I think the opportunity here is for Peter Dutton, I really do. I think if he can come to the table and show that he's not doctor No. You know, he is a constructive, engaging opposition leader and he can come and put forward a plan to solve this problem. You know, at the end of the day, I imagine all the parties, possibly with the exception of the Greens, want these dangerous criminals to stay where they are, to stay in jail. So how do we ensure that they
stay in jail? What's the answer? You know, I think there's an opportunity for Peter Dutton to come to the table and say here's my plan.
Yeah, but how anything to do that when you know when they had the new legislation and they dropped it on him at nine o'clock in the morning or seven o'clock in the morning the day they were going to introduce it to Parliament.
Under the plan I'm not you know reproscut Yeah, that happened, yees ago. That's done and dusted. But the chance is now here before all of these cases hit the courts, the chances now here for Peter dunt't to come forward and say, here's my plan for how you should solve it.
Yeah. Well, then that brings up Matt Canavan. Then you know the question of on the one hand, hitting Andrew Giles over and over again on this is politically very profitable in the short term, but in the long run there is that issue of what do you do to say, well, here's how we constructively solve it. What is the coalition going to bring forward on this as this develops?
Well, well, James, I'm not quite sure why the government hasn't used the powers that were given to it before Christmas. I mean, so we're talking now more than seven years, seven months ago, and the Coalition was very cooperative that week it was all done quite quite quickly in light of that d Zyq decision that the government the day wasn't prepared for it.
I remember one of the minister saying, well, look, we.
Were told we were going to win, so that's why we hadn't prepared any legislation in the event we lose. Well, it's no way to govern a country to just do so by hoping for the best. You've got to prepare for the worst. And the government was called flat footed there. But as it may, the Coalition did help get that legislation through, just to rush it through just before Christmas.
But to my knowledge, at least when I last checked a few weeks ago, and I haven't seen reports otherwise, the government has not used those increased powers or increased impro protection orders they could do to keep people in jail. As Sam said, So look, I'm sure the Coalation would look at other proposals.
That legislation you.
Mentioned didn't deal directly with that issue. It was a bit blunt and that's why we weren't so keen on it. But I'm sure we'd look at other proposals. I mean it's a bit hard to do so from opposition, I mean it's really got to come from governments and coverment departments. These are very technical areas and oppositions just don't have the staff and legal drafting.
Expertise to do this. But yeah, that's why they're in government.
I mean, but we're happy to help, especially given that this government has presided over the greatest release of foreign convicts onto our shore since the days of Arthur Philip.
Well, that is a sort of a fair point though, so, I mean, you know, they did try to come to the party on that legislation. But the ultimate thing here is that Giles was caught flat footed. They thought that that High Court case, the Ends in YQ case, was going to come down in their favor. And yet if you go back and you read the final judgment, it was clear that you know, back in March last year, the Court was already singling, this isn't going your way.
You gotta have something on deck to deal with this.
Look, you might be you might well be right, and I dare say history has shown that you are right.
That said, it is an extravinly right.
But it's an extraordinary decision that the High Court brought us. You know, I don't think any government of any political flavor would have looked at this and said, oh no, that's okay to release these people with these criminal histories, just let them loose. I don't think anyone thought that was in any way likely. I don't think the opposition was saying, no, this is coming down, what are you doing about it?
And nor should they? Yeah, you know, I just think we have to say that.
Was well the Department was the Department had been warning the government of this potential.
We know that mentioned how the hearings were going.
Yeah, we do know that, Matt, and we also know that Albanese was very cagey about, you know, saying who these people were and said, oh no, no, that's a state matter. We're not going to get involved in that. But let's go on because there's so much else to cover here. I want to talk about the French elections and the fallout of this is absolutely fascinating and I'm
sure everyone at home you're across the story. Marie Le Penn's National Rally party looked set for a big win, but then the runoff results overnight show the country's actually going to the left, with the Macron Technocrats and a much further left party getting together doing deals to make sure they boxed the La penn party. And now there were some pretty wild scenes on the streets of France afterwards,
and said, look, you gotta love the French left. They riot when they win, they riot when they lose, They riot on a day ending in why Matt Matt Canavan. First of all, give me your take on this. It's basically only in the urban cores that the left did well, but everybody else in France seems to be sick of Macran's managerialism and seemingly unlimited, uncontrolled immigration. Did the left unfairly gain the system here? Well?
I like your opening there that saying to me that those protesters were protesting and being angry because they didn't have the reason to protest, but they thought that by winning, so very upset and decided to protest about it. But hopefully not too much damage is done in Paris, especially ahead of the Olympics. Well, look, I think French decide if you look at these election results, look looks as
polarized as almost anywhere else. And we're world I mean, if you classify Macron's party has left and there's a question about whether he is his voters or at least a left. He tries to present himself as a centrist party. But if you put them on the left, you add up the parties of the right, you get about fifty to fifty between in the French population, and that's pretty
much where he is around the world. As you say or suggested there, it's just the left seemed better organized and were able to coordinate who was going to run in which department I think they call them in France, and that meant to through a first part yeah through Okay, thank you James for helping me out there, but they were the first part of the post system. With the Republicans still running against the right wing party, still running against the National Front.
That destroyed their opportunity.
You've seen that in different election results as well. You see it with the electoral College in the US, so it's not uncommon. Organization is very important. Logistics is important in politics just as much as getting the number of votes is.
That's right, is absolutely critical. I actually think the left was aided by the media speculation that this was going to be a Mary Lupin victory. Yes, that forced them to get their act together in a way that I don't think they were necessarily capable of beforehand.
Well, and I mean, it's going to be really interesting to watch these two very different when it comes down to the fundamentals. Parties try and work together in some sort of government. But look look at the left wing coalition. You know, it's the People's Front of Judea and the Judea's People's Front. You know, they all hate each other. You've got the Communists, the Greens, the Socialists on Marsh, you know, and then they will hate each other like viciously. God,
it feels like they are strained parliament. But you know there's another issue too here say, which you want to dive into, which is you know, if you look at the Marine la penn program, in many ways they say, oh it's far right, oh it's fascist, But in many ways the economics are very left wing. It's big government spending, it's big pensions, which of course we know are the big things the French people really care about is you know,
that big pension. But the thing that the only thing that really distinguishes them most of all is their stamps migration. And the big question I have is why is it that despite open borders being wildly unpopular with most normal people. In most countries, immigration people always say tap the brakes, right, anty immigrant, but we do not like this uncontrolled flood.
The elite and the centrists seem to have this as an article of faith that if some immigration is good, more is better, and anybody who thinks otherwise is you know, to be frank. You know, they call them far right, they call them all right, they call them a Nazi. How come Look, I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Marie le Penn, over a very long political career twenty years or thirty years or something, has said some genuinely disturbing
comments and has some genuinely disturbing views. And also, you know, we talk about fascists and communists in the Australian landscape like it's sort of student politics, right, Sure, when you're talking about it in Europe and France, you know, those ideas of fascism and communism have real historical context, and I don't think for twenty years until I don't know, six or seven years ago, Maria Lea Penn just did enough to distance herself from that, from that target, and
she was happy to say, We're not happy to say that she was a fascist, but she certainly didn't run away from that tag as far and as fast as she should have. It just seems to strike me that all of these parties, you know, in the center and you know, set a left, set to right when you've got this issue of migration which seems to drive people to the far right, instead of saying, you know, well maybe we should do something about that and wind it back,
then it's feminized people. I think that's pretty strange. We see the same thing happening in Australia.
No, no, that's fair, and I think a lot of people that have those similar views when they start hearing people espousing those views of getting called racist, all of a sudden, they think, well, hold on, I'm not racists. You know, why are you saying that they're racist? If if that's me, No, No, I think they're There is some clearly some sense to a policy proposal, and Australia has some very tough bipartisan.
Sure sure, sure, sure, But anyway, hey, let's move on because we've got more news here from here at home Alice Springs, where a snap three night curfew has been put in place following the alleged robbery of four off duty police officers, among other concerning stories, all alleged. Of course, here's what the NT Chief Minister, if a lawler had say, So.
This curfew is about all of that, getting on top of the issues of crime, but also about returning people to country, returning people home to their own states as well.
Matt Canavan, will this story, will these shocking tales out of the NT and Alice Springs get Prime Minister Anthony Albanisi onto the vip jet and to head out there and have a look at a talk people and see what's going on.
Well, look, I don't know if it's that important for him to visit there. I do think it's important for the federal government to get more involved in this issue. It's obviously one that's not being controlled by the Northern Territory government. This has been going on now for years and there are outbreaks of violence and crime every few months. The Northern Territories are small jurisdiction and seems unable to
tackle this on its own. And it's not right that Australians have their safety at threats as much as some would have in the war zone in this country, in the middle of this nation. So I think the federal I thought the federal government for a long time been saying this needs to get involved with the police, with austrain Federal Police, with possibly even army if necessary, if
it's that bad, get them involved. And so another trip, another sightseeing visit for the Prime Minister is probably not that important, but actual boots on the ground, the assistances. And I think since the Voice has been running a million miles from Indigenous issues, which is very regrettable. Yeah, these train people have their say about the Voice, it's done.
It needs to get over that and actually tackle the practical issues on the ground that face many Indigenous Australians and those other Australians who live near Indigenous communities.
It has to be tackled.
We have to have laura and order re established in Alice Springs. As I say that, all in territory government seems unable to do that.
Yeah, it does seem say like like, you know, since the Voice, Lever has been a bit m I A on this stuff, and to be fair of the national conversation has a bit am I on this stuff. But you know, Liverra's in power.
Yeah, I think I think you need to undertake some deep policy work on these you sort of record spendings of housing for indigenous for the indigenous communities in the Northern Territory. I can't remember that was just before just after the voice. But you know, this, this curfew, I'm a little bit uncomfortable with it. I got to say,
Alice Springs, is the size of almost comparable size of Paramount. Sure, and if there were half a dozen instances of crime, and absolutely vicious crime, and Matt's right, you need a greater interventionalist approach to stop that. No one here would be saying let's lock down Paramatta for three days now,
maybe for twenty four hours to provide a circuit breaker. Maybe, But you know, I do genuinely worry at what point do we say as a government, Well, I think you're lock up and entire people like we saw during COVID. You know, let's just lock them up and yeah, crime will go to nothing.
You'll see that.
Sure, No, No, I get that, and we you know, we we do need to have a broader conversation beyond the stop gap solutions. You know, I get what we were saying. I'm gonna have to leave with the other. Sam Crosby, Matt Canavan Thank you so much for joining me tonight. Don't go anywhere because we have got another all star panel coming up after the break, including our Nick Cater and how the left again loves to call everything far right. Let's talk about that some more after
the Welcome back to the program. James Morrow here filling in for Paul on Palmerray Live. Let's continue our debate and joining me now is child and adolescent psychologist Claire Row here in the studio and Nick Cater from the Menzies Research Center. But welcome to both of you. Thank
you so much. Now, Nick, I want to start with you because you wrote a great piece in the Australian newspaper today titled spare us the far right Flannel It's nothing more than juvenile abuse, and you go on to criticize the recent demonization of anybody on the right, particularly in the wake of France's current election. Nick, this is juvenile abuse. What is this doing to our politics?
Well, is going to black and white and black hats white hats, you know, good and bad. But this whole idea that the politics goes from the left to right, as you know, comes from the French National Assembly in the eighteenth century.
Right.
It's an arcane idea.
Politics doesn't fit in like that, but it suits the left if I can call them that, to keep on with this, because then they can say that anybody on the conservative side who's slightly more conservative than averagely.
Conservative is on the hard right.
And this is what they've been saying a cause ahead of the French elections yesterday, to try and scare people away from voting for Marine.
La Penz party.
They've been saying this is the first hard right government in France since the war. Give me a break, I mean, what is the RN got in common with the you know, the Fishi collaborationists who coz it up to the Nazis and deported ninety six thousand Jews.
It's an absurd comparison.
And in my piece this morning, as you know, I say they're actually talking about something else. What it is is that people like pen people like Victor Alban in Hungary, people like Milders in Holland, they just opposed this whole international project that the left is so keen on that all the decisions should be made at an international global level. No, they say they should be made at a local level, particularly on things like immigration. Of course, which is the
big thing across Europe now. They want to decide who comes to their country and the circumstances under which they come quite simple.
Yeah, And I mean if you look at some of the anti semitism in the left side of politics in France right now, I think it's pretty shocking. And you know, you would certainly if you were a French Jewel right now, you'd probably be a lot more concerned about these results than if the so called fascist far right party got in. And I want to ask you, though, Claire as a psychologist. Sam Crosby was here before the break. He made the point that the media kind of probably drove a lot
of the left vote because they scared people. But what is the effect of that kind of mass demonization of one side of politics that gives people this kind of shorthand to just write off a whole side of politics.
Yeah, well, I think, as Nick said, there's this tendency and movement towards our elections being run now on local national issues in the best interest of.
National policies, on things.
Like immigration or they run I think, yeah, okay, on global issues, but on ideologies, and once you're voting because you identify with an ideology of a party. It basically gives you a free right and permission to absolutely demonize the other side. It's this kind of notion that well, that's for the good of the collective that we have to do that.
And yeah, I mean I do think of.
Anyone who's right leaning, suddenly we add that kind of word far in front of it. Very few times are you describing someone I think is right. It's always far right, hard right, extreme right, And I think part of that is deliberate fear mongering. And then part of it, I think have they actually just lost touch with what far extreme right ease? Yeah, which is a complete as we know, you know, violent fascist dictatorship that somehow comes full circle
to meet a left socialist dictatorship. But yeah, it's somehow like left aunt they're just described as lefties, sir.
Well, well they're just described to manstream. I mean, you know how many times do you hear the Green subscribes as a far left party on the ABC?
You know?
And I think perhaps this is why people don't trust much of the media, because the same people who tell you that Joe Biden's okay also tell you that they're far right. But let's move on to another issue here which I know you, Claire are really passionate about. This is social media and the social media debate around kids. Opposite leader Peter Dutt has of course said they want to lift the minimum age to sixteen to get on these things if elected. But now there's reports that many
teenagers are coming out and criticizing the proposed policy. They say that social media is actually key to their healthy development and well being and creates a place where they can sos with friends, express themselves and access support. I mean, to me, that was just you know, going over to base houses back in the day. But I don't know if we do that anymore. What do you think about this? So are they the kids say.
Exactly exactly?
So I think you know, I'm a big advocate for no social media and in fact no smartphones under sixteen.
Now.
The reason being is not just what they're exposed to on social media, it's what they're not doing. So I've got kids that I see that are on their phones five six, seven, eight hours a day.
So if you go back, you don't want to see what my spreed time alert looks like you're working.
I mean, these are you know, these are fourteen thirteen year olds, and you know they're supposed to be in school, and then where do they find these eight hours? So in a previous generation, what were they doing in those eight hours that they're not doing?
Now?
Sure they were at their maid's place.
Of course, kids are going to say, well, that's where I socialize because that's.
All they know.
That's all they know that that's how they've they've been socializing on this platform. And it's like we're telling them we're going to take away socialization.
We're not.
We're going to hopefully wind it back to a play based childhood, which I think ends too early at twelve years old.
Yeah, look, I think you're right. I think you're right about that. But at the same time, Nick Cator is some of the stuff about these limitations to social media. I also worry that in trying to fix the problem with teenagers, you know, and young people, they could wind up creating things that will suppress free speech and the ability of people to just you know, speak out about issues like we saw during the pandemic and at other times. Nick Cator, where do you stand on this whole thing?
Should there be a minimum age for teens. And are you worried that, as with the E Safety Commissioner, which started about out being about children, that we could wind up having more regulation of adults that we don't need.
Well, that's the problem, and I believe strongly there should be proper age limits on kids accessing social media, just as.
Driving cars or drinking alcohol. Right, there's no no issue with that.
But of course what we've seen in Australia is they set up an e Safety Commissioner with the express purpose of keeping kids safe online and with it about five minutes, you know, the mission creep had said in sure and that there are all these proposal, are therefore to be the sensor of a misinformation disinformation?
No, no, no, no, adults. Adults have to.
Take responsibility for themselves. Always saying here is that the evidence is very clear, James, You've seen it. You know, Jonathan Height's book lays this out quite clearly, that there's a spike in youth suicide, you depression, youth anxiety from twenty twelve when smartphones came in, and correlation is not causation. But I've looked at this closely and I'm convinced that that is occurring. So we just have to say thirteen is too young for Apple or Google to give you
their own a kid of their own account. You can sit on the family account until you're at a decent age sixteen or seventeen. It suits the big tech companies that stuck people in early. But that, I think is what Peter Dutton is saying. Essentially, It really is just saying, you know, some stuff's too dangerous for kids' minds to be taken in to take in on their own.
No, I think that's absolutely right. I think as well said there now. But let's say it stay on the kids here just for a second, because also we've had queens over Stephen Miles hitting out at opposition leader David Christoph Fooley's announced bit about adult time for adult crime. Let's have a quick listen to this.
The LMP's own police spokesperson says that they see crime as the way to win seats, that his job as their police spokesperson is to exploit crime to win seats, and that's all David Christopherhilly is doing here with another slick focus group's political.
Slogan, Claire, you're the child development expert here, who do you come down on here.
Well, I do think that there needs to be a relook at not necessarily change what we've already got, but the ability for magistrates to actually put in tougher sentences they have. We give magistrates a discretion of you know, minimum sentencing up to maximum sentencing. The issue is that it's not being currently used. And I know that child protection groups will say that, you know, early contact with the law, it's just going to increase the likelihood of reoffending.
I'm talking for the ones that are chronic reoffenders already. It's not our first go to and I don't think that ten year old should be having life sentences. Of course, not that's not helping anyone. It's not keeping society safe. It's certainly not rehabilitating that kid. But when you've got teens that are constant reoffenders and all they get is a slap on the wrist and they walk out the next day and they're violent again, there's no repercussions there or deterrence.
Yeah.
No, look, that's fair enough. Now, before I let you guys both go here, I want to talk about a story which I find fascinating because you know, I fly back and forth to New York a fair bit. And I know, Nick, I think eure overseas at the moment too. There's a new trend where people just sit there and watch the flight map. And I got to say this. I do this myself. It's called raw dogging a flight, Nick cater, I gotta say I'm a raw dogger. I just watched the flight map. I don't watch any movies.
What do you think about this trend? Are you a movie guy? Or do you just watch the map?
Look, I sort of get it, James.
I mean, I love going on long flights because you're cut off, right, you don't you don't have to answer emails. I mean, I hate the fact they're bringing in Wi Fi onto planes.
I'd rather they didn't. It is that time to switch off. And flight mats are fantastic, aren't they.
I mean I flew in from city to hell Sinky and suddenly discovered I was coming in from the north, Like, how does that work? How do you arrive from the north the hell sinky? But yeah, I mean that's a bit of but yeah, I sawt of get it. But I couldn't sit there and do nothing. I must have been I do have to have something going on a book or usually a laptop working.
Claire, I just did JFK to Tokyo to Sydney and I just stared at that map and it was so nice. Is this psychologically helpful? Healthy? Or am I just like completely crazy here? I know we don't see crazy anymore.
Well, it is psychologically healthy, but it's you know, do what I say, not what I do, because that would drive me nas And if the baby's crying behind me and I've got someone talking to me, I need to put in the movie or the headphones or the music.
But it is it is nice just to have a switch off, like Nick said.
Of no stimulation, no one can get to you. I don't want to connect to the Wi Fi. But yeah, it is psychologically healthy. But if you're staring at that map, I reckon that it'd increase my anxiety.
Indeed, I don't well fair enough, Look, I just like to watch the map. I like to know where I am. I like the speed, I like the direction. I love all of that stuff. Claro, Nick Cater, thank you so much for being on. Now stick with us because we've got a lot more to talk about coming up next. Find of the payment is the manifestation of identity politics in this country. So what does this mean for the future of Australia. Parnell Beginners joins us next. Welcome back
to the program. James Mara here for Paul Murray Live Now. Last night I was talking about Fatima payment and the rise of sectarian politics and why it makes me so nervous to think that people would vote along religious lines. Paul McGinnis wrote a fantastic article with The City Morning Herald over the weekend talking about this precise issue, saying that Australia will lose if Payman's identity politics wins. And I am so glad to say she joins us here
on this set tonight, Pardow. Let's talk about this issue of identity politics, religion and particularly Islam. Now. One of the things that you talk about in your peace is political Islam versus regular Islam and what this means in the body politic.
Yeah, and that's really important to understand, I think, because I think a lot of people in Australia have only come across a non political ISTHM. So in the public sphere in Australia we see people like ed Husick and Ali whose practice of their religion is really non political. They put it within a framework of Australian values, in which case nobody has any objection to anybody holding a
particular faith, the faith that they practice. But then there is another type of Islam which we see mainly manifesting in countries which are you know, unmentionably horrible sometimes you know, in countries which are water on, like serio sectarian countries like Afghanistan and so on. And this kind of political Islam tends to tends to be aiming towards establishing a caliphate. Now, I don't want to be alarmist about this in Australia.
I think it's really important not to be alarmist because but we do have to be aware that there are these two trends of Islam. And when political Islam comes in contact identity politics, then we have to be especially aware that people are aligning themselves with a set of values that can be put above the liberal democratic values of Australia which are so important to us.
Yeah, and you know what strikespeare is really interesting in this whole debate here, and this whole discussion, is that you've got this weird situation where the Greens on the hard left are the first ones to scream about, you know, the Australian Christian lobby, or to say, you know, when Tony Abbott was Prime Minister, Oh, his Catholicism is influencing his government, or Scott Morrison's Pentecostalism and all of that,
you know, very viciously. And yet they seem to be making common cause with people with a political religious program that's really retrograde.
Well I'm not sure they know what they are making common cause with, because as you've seen, you know, there have been a lot of jokes made about.
The Queers forgot.
So there is a real question as to whether they understand the religion that they have aligned themselves with. When they when they argue for her Mask, when they claim that her Mass is actually just a freedom fighting organization. There is not really a great deal of understanding, a great depth of understanding of the religion or the organization, or the region the entire region of the Middle East in this. So that is the first part to start with.
I mean, you'll see that ever since Fatima Payman left the Labor Party, the left has been claiming that everybody else, including the incredibly right wing, Sydney Morning.
Herald has has been.
Has been, has been islamophobic for criticizing Fatima Payman's actions, right, and they're doing that because there is a sort of knee jerk reaction in Australia still where to claim for those groups to claim that any analysis of a situation, or any any attempt to put and act into the broader context of a politics or a cultural movement that's happening worldwide can be seen if it affects a Muslim person as Islamic phobe.
But it is just because then you know, the City Morning Herald, people on the sort of the general left as well, you know, the ABC, all these sorts of people. When they look at Islam, they see something exotic and different versus you know, and that's why they treat that differently and want to protect it versus something that they see as mainstream, like Christianity, like something that.
They don't understand and haven't come into contact with. And you know, look, I mean I would not want to trash Islam wholesale. Look, Islam obviously had a wonderful renaissance and we and we have it to thank for many of the early scientific innovations that humans have based much of our cultural learning on the mathematics and so on. However, in the modern world it is not that force of and when you.
See it in places like you know, Germany, for example, it becomes quite retrograde.
Right, and you know that is precisely the thing. It has become a sort of retrograde is exactly the right word. Retrogregade action against a sense that that the Islamic world is threatened by the West. Now, the West doesn't feel generally as threatened by the Islamic world, but there is this sort of sense of a clash of cultures which tends to be felt more in the Middle East. Indeed, we're acting on that in Germany or in western countries.
Part now we're going to have to leave there. Parnal Beginnis. Thank you so much, brilliant piece and seeing morning Harold check her out every Saturday or every Sunday. Sorry, thank you so much. Now that's it for me tonight. Stay tuned for the late debate. I'll be back tomorrow night and the rest of this week and next week. Have a great night.