From the Skying Center. This is Paul Murray live. Thank you Sharry Tonight we go old school none other than Brombrey Bishop and Joe Hildebrand in the man Cave, both together fighting it out over all the big issues the Willie won't they In and around America's bunker bomb. We'll get to some late breaking information in and around that. And somebody who would know is telling us exactly how China works over Australia. The countries like Australia to give
you what it wants. We get to all that the second. As I said, big issues, world issues, but as always we try to start with Australia first. Now I want to take you way back to about twenty something years ago, okay, and believe you this time machine adventure will be worth it. The trains in Sydney in the early two thousands post the Olympics were not fantastic. They were always running late.
There were all sorts of problems. If one problem happened at one train station, the entire network would be knocked over slightly. But surely that system has been tried to be cleaned up over a long time. But of course, when the trains run late, in any major capital city it becomes a political problem. And back then, Bobcarr was the news of bas premiere and was very very cool, good at politics when it came to the handling of things.
I remember going to a press conference once as a young reporter where he announced that people who were already serving a life term will serve a life term in jail. He was good at being able to change the subject, and that government made a decision that rather than admit that the trains were constantly running late, they just changed the timetable. That literally late didn't mean late any more.
It was if it arrived within I think about ten minutes of the actual time, then it technically wasn't late. So that are the late trains just disappear.
Well.
A perfect example of that now twenty years later, is being deployed by Chris Bowen, one of many young labor people who learned via the feet and the ways of bobcar and the way that he did things way back when. Again very successful politically, But we're not talking about trains running late here. We know that Chris Bowen, along with the Prime Minister, is trying to change the electricity system from the one that worked to the one that will
make people feel good. It will cost the best part of a trillion dollars to do so, and of course it's more expensive, but if you say it enough times, people will eventually forget that their bills keep going up. Right.
The cheapest, most reliable form of energy for Australians, and that, of course, is renewable energy.
Renewables, the cheapest form of energy.
Cheapest energy price is going forward.
Renewable energy is incredibly cheap.
Now for fifteen years that I have been on it, enough to be sitting here and in your land room or wherever you happen to watch the show. I've never been a denier of climate change nor the potential benefits of things like renewable energy. But what I have said, regardless of whom the person is who's pushing it or the leader who was promising it, the cost of transition
was always going to be the problem for me. And the cost of transition has been obvious as we go from a system that works to a completely new one that is being built. As I say, it could cost up to a trillion dollars for us to do it, and yes, the government will stump up some of the money. Private companies might absorb some of it, but it's pretty obvious who has to pay a big chunk of it.
You.
Power prices are set to increase.
Power bills are climbate.
Australian families braced for even higher power bills.
So what is the trains aren't running late? Solution that Chris Bowen and the Energy regulator are going to put in place will bear with me because this one kind of takes the cake for the way modern politics works. The way it is going to work is that apparently energy retailers will be restricted to only increasing their prices once a year.
Terms.
This is a little bit like those politician pay rises. Yeah, people are bitch and known for a couple of days and then they won't talk about it again for the
rest of the year. But the reality is is that if it is just once a year increase, that those increases are going to be sharper and sharper and sharper until we eventually get to the time when all of the stuff has been built, it's all paid itself off, and then we start to see potentially what renewable energy is to the customer versus the existing systems that have worked,
but let me read from this story today. The Isradian Market Energy Market Commission has announced the changes on Thursday, entrenching a sweep of new rules designed to PreTect consumers from price shocks. Doesn't mean prices won't go up, but retailers will now be limited to lifting prices once a year and must ensure that customers who sign up to a plan with a temporary benefit do not rule over
to one that is higher than the default price. Further, there is now a ban on what the AMEC calls unreasonably high penalties for not paying a bill on time. There's also a ban on fees except for network charges for vulnerable customers. Okay, there's no real problem with that, but still, you can imagine once a year and they're going to pretend, no, it's not our fail, it's somebody else making the decision. It's exactly the same logic as
the trains and exactly the same logic as power. As a pay rises for MPs, providers must also limit fees and chargers to reasonable costs for all other consumers. But interestingly, on the very same day that the government was finding a way to kind of hide the reality of the cost from one energy system to the new energy system. And remember that the election just beIN they promised no cuts to electricity prices in the way they had previously
promised at the election before this. So with no promise for your power bills to go down, we've just found a way that your power bills will go up. It just won't be as randomly as it has been in the past. Therefore, everyone's annoyed for a couple of days. Will make the announcement of what the week before Christmas. They'll do it on the King's Birthday public holiday. You know how all this is going to work, and all
of it will, of course politically be amazing. And anyone who talks about power prices being an electoral problem, it's just a crazy person making stuff up. Right. This is a classic example about public policy, moving from jumping into the pot of boiling water to the frog in boiling water, where slowly but surely it turns warmer and warmer until it is too late to realize it's boiling and you
are cooked. But on the very same day that announcement was being made, what about people who owe money to gym charmers, And by that I mean the Federal government and by that I mean, of course the Australian Taxation Office. Well it's very different. You see, if you are late with your payments on a power bill, it will be basically illegal to have to pay a fine for that.
And if you are late with money to the Australian Tax Office, guess what's going to happen With over fifty billion dollars an outstanding tax debt owe to the Australian Tax Office. The government wants to make it much less attractive for people to delay paying their tax bills. However, the rules are changing and accountants worn that recently passed legislation by the Federal government regarding the tax deductibility of ato interest has potential to push struggling small businesses over
the edge and into liquidation. From July the first, if you owe money to the Australian Tax Office, you will no longer be able to claim a tax deduction on the interest that they charge you. So let's be very clear the private companies that sell you the electricity that the government is forcing them to change the sources by which electricity is created. They can't charge any extra fines
for late payments. If you're late with a payment to the Australian Tax Office, that system changes and the interest that is going to be charged goes through the roof. Let me continue with some of the analysis about what took place here today, talk about a double standard. Anyone
without tax deductibility. The Australian Tax Office interest rate of ten point seven eight percent from July one becomes an effective interest rate of fourteen zero point three seven percent per small businesses and an effective interest rate of twenty percent for individuals on the highest marginal tax rate. So again, don't you love this rules for the power industry because that causes political problems if you end up owing a tax bill, if you are late with paying that tax
bill because maybe you don't have the money. No, no, no, no mercy for you. Instead, jacket up, jacket up, jacket up. And remember that number that was owing of outstanding tax was about fifty billion dollars. Well, let's again look at the confusing logic of this government, particularly when it comes to the amount of money that the taxpayer is owed by people who have gone to university and the taxpayer has paid for them to go through their tertiary education.
The total amount owing to taxpayers in hecks outstanding hex he's eighty one before billion dollars. Now we know that the way that the Labor Party was able to get a whole bunch of young people to vote for it, not the Greens because they were worried about what might happen to the Left, was that they just forgave billions of dollars worth of that eighty billion dollars worth of debt. Now they're not willing to do it when it comes
to the tax office. No, no, no, no no. If you owe them money, no changes, no forgiveness, no forgiveness for small business. Look, we know you paid all the bills in the past. Let's just drop it by a third, right, because we want to keep you in business and you employed. But the triangle of dependency where you hand out for the government or you work for the government, or the biggest client is government, is the real game here. Anyone else,
like a small business can well just bugger off. As you know, decision was made during the election to cut twenty percent of thousands of people student debt loans. The ubuneasy Labor government will kind of further twenty percent off student debt. This will wipe out sixteen billion, So eighty one billion minus sixteen billion, and that is how much money is still left over, which is still way more than the total amount outstanding right now when it comes
to the tax office. So to repeat for I think the sixth time. But it's still important to know who this government truly values small business. If you owe money to the tax office, bugger you. We're going to increase the rate that you have to pay it back by if you are late. The tax office that in part will be administering the what sixty five billion dollars outstanding
in unpaid university fees? Well, who cares? Because those small business people too small a number, as opposed to the young people who, of course they want to vote, which means you get ninety four seats in the parliament. You tell small business to get stuffed, but the unie students keep voting labor. Happy times, Happy times, and the trains
now run on time. As you know. I have remained steadfast in a conversation about immigration, and it is not a cultural conversation about immigration, it is literally a capacity conversation. Australia is at twenty seven million people. That number has exploded in just the past twenty years. You know that at the turn of the century, I think it was close to about eighteen million people that we had in the country. But slowly but surely, yes, people have babies,
but more people end up coming to the country. They come to the country as skilled workers or they come to the country as family reunion. We also know that this Prime Minister when this was a bit of a political issue back before they could change the subject to medicare and UGA boogers about Peter Dutton, all of which
were successful, all of which the Australian people endorsed. People had a problem with the number of people that were coming in because, as you know, the more people who come in, the more people there are to every single potential queue in Australia, especially when it comes to housing. You know that small problem of where do people live?
But who cares? We're just growing the tax base, which in part is what Chalmers was talking about yesterday with his whole plans for a sustainable budget, which put simply means despite how much they have to spend, they have to have more people paying tax and more taxes put on even those that are already paying their tax. But the eagle eyes at the Daily Telegraph of sorry, the Daily Mail have called out the bs from the Prime
Minister who remember promised to cut immigration. In fact, they made a promise just before the election in the budget that was released just before the election. And Australia took in three hundred and forty thirds and eight hundred migrants last year. That is higher than the forecast of three hundred and thirty five thousand arrivals for the twenty four to twenty five financial year. It's seventy six percent higher than the pre pandemic intakes of one hundred and ninety
four thousand. The new figures were released on Thursday, a day after Jim Chalmers had admitted that Australia would struggle to build one point two million households in the five years to twenty twenty nine to accommodate the population explosion. Now, of course, as you know, if you talk about this in any way, shape or form, and again it was partly successful and part of the mix as to how
the government was able to get re elected. Any conversation about migration is somehow an attack on anyone who has migrated to the country. Now you and I both know that's not true. You and I both know that. It takes me an extra thirty seconds to read that disclaimer because it is what I believe and I don't want
it to be misinterpreted. But just like the lies about them, any care Karda lies about population, it doesn't matter because a compliant prayers who are happy with the arrangements that they have, who want more access, who want to be able to fly around the world listening to the Prime Minister slaying diplomatic dragons, like saying good a to world leaders like we told you last night. They don't want
to rock this boat. But again, if you do even have a conversation about, okay, cool, hundreds of thousands more people come in, there's not enough houses. That's a problem right on, And apparently to even discuss that issue, you get hit with the R word racist, racist, racist, racist racist racist racist. Just a reminder that the Intergenerational Report, the same one that I show you oh so often, that tells us about those budget deficits between this year
and the twenty sixties. It also says that astraight As population is headed above forty million people by the twenty sixties. In fact, according to the Intergeneration Report. The report projects that forty and a half million people will live in Australia by the early twenty sixties. This is the same report that tells us that despite that huge population increase,
there will be a decade of deficits. And of course, the plan for all of this is the magic two words that were said five times by the Treasurer of this week, and the code is tax increases.
Tax reform, tax reform, tax reform, tax reform, tax reform, tax reform, tax reform.
All right, let's send our attention to the issues of war that are happening around the world. And before we get to the trump of it all, let's deal with the Australians of it all. Remember earlier in the week I told you that there was three hundred people in Israel, three hundred and fifty people from Iran who are Australians wanting to return back to Australia. Where those numbers have
gone through the roof. We learned today that the Foreign Minister Pennywong has described the situation in the Middle East as incredibly dangerous, increasingly dangerous. Thanks scoop. But here's the detail. About fifteen hundred Australians in Iran. Twelve hundred are in Israel have registered for assistance to get out a dodge to get out of those countries, and she anticipates that the number will increase. Here is the Foreign Minister.
Those numbers I anticipate will continue to climb. They've certainly increased over the last few days.
But of course airports completely closed in both countries. The focus of those trying to get out of Israel, well, they are literally turning to tour guides to try to find ways out. But have a look at this story that was in the Channel nine newspapers where a mother whose thirty year old son was stuck in Tel Aviv after last week's retaliatory attracts says that she was incredibly angry and disappointed by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
People are dying on both sides and the governments washed their hands completely. People are feeling abandoned by the government. They feel like the government doesn't care. Now, I have no doubt that if that was your kid that was there,
you feel like that. In reality, you can't move these couple of thousands of people as quickly as possible, all at once, because you can't fly them out because for obvious reasons, with missiles raining down in both countries, but particularly in Israel, it is impossible to move a large amount of people. But here is Penny Wong with the latest from end of things.
We took the opportunity to assist a small group out across a land border crossing over in the last twenty four hours, and we hope to have more able to be moved today. Obviously that does depend on the security situation on the ground.
All right, let's send our attention to the Trump of it all. Will he or won't he? Of course, no one knows apart from the President, and we will find out whether it does it doesn't happen in the next few days. But right now, seventeen minutes past nine in Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. Right now, it is seventeen minutes past
two in the afternoon in Israel. It is forty seven or thirteen minutes away three o'clock in the afternoon in Iran, and it is eighteen minutes past seven o'clock in the morning in Washington, d C. Now, just as I joked and told you about last night that despite the apparent urgency of the President having to get back from the G seven, the reality was that it probably wasn't that urgent.
He just was done with mccron and the rest of them, and certainly looked at the B team that he was about to meet, including Australia's Prime Minister, who remember wasn't even allowed to eat with the big boy countries, so he had no interest in visiting the kid's table. And despite the fact that he was coming back to deal with the beginnings of World War three, as I told you, what he was actually doing in part of this was putting two new flagpoles out the front and back of
the White House. They're cooled, they're big, They're a personal gift, and I think they look nice in and around the White House. But that's what in part he was doing, not exactly dealing with the beginnings of World War three or the end of the nuclear program in Iran. And as you've heard, he is not telling anyone what he's going to do right now, and he won't decide till second before.
I may do it, I may not do it.
I mean, nobody knows what I'm going to do. I can tell you there's that Iran's got a lot of trouble now. Apart from the will he and won't heat and what the potential consequences are, there apparently might be some problems with whether this bomb is actually the right bomb to do what is needed to be done, because, yes, the Iranian facility which is underneath that mountain, is it going to be too deep and not able to be penetrated.
But as you know, it's only American planes that can fly it there, and it is only the American bomb that is able to drill its way as deep as those particular areas. But apparently, according to the economists today, America's bunker busting bomb is not sure it's going to work when it comes to Iran in terms of the stakes about whether he should or shouldn't do it. And
everyone's got a view on that. A reporter who literally almost died covering issues to do with the Middle East was works for Fox News and was on Fox News with Jesse Waters today explaining what the pros and the cons are, and they're always more complicated than it might seem.
The pros you laid out earlier, Look, you get rid of Iran's nuclear facility that the US is the only country that can do that. That perhaps leads to a change in regime. As you said, the country is falling apart, people are striking, people can't afford to live. That could change the whole Middle East. With President Trump's relationships with Saudi Arabia and Israel, if the Iranian regime was to fall, you could change the region. You could pull them away
from China, pull them away from Russia. It could be a geopolitical shock. If that would have happened, it would be a seismic change. On the other hand, there are potential real negatives, and that is down to how Iran will respond. Look, if Iran was to go after American embassies, American ships, American bases, and Americans were killed, it would quickly lead to escalation. America would have to get involved
further and further. If they shut the straits of Horn moves, oil prices rise, If they use their countless terror proxies around the world, we could see an outbreak.
Yeah, so it's not one and done. It's not drop it and walk away. There are consequences where we'll all find out together whether the President is going to go there. But we certainly know the internal maga fight about all of this, about whether they see it as a one and done or whether they see it as opening the door to going back into a forever war. Well we all know about that. In the past few days, Donal Trump was asked about all of this, and put simply,
he says he is maga. It seems like this issue on whether or not the United States should strike is kind of dividing a lot of your supporters. Now my supporter is it for me? My supporters are America first, They make America great again. My supporters don't want to see round have a new glow open. And one of the issues worth noting here is that this internal maga fight, however principled or not principled, or look at me, or
whatever the heck, it actually is. Well that all of this amuses the left, because remember, the left are not going to ever turn around and give Trump credit. Instead, they would love the idea of a key part of his supporter base moving away because they, of course are heartedly invested in the Trump presidency being a failure, and they see a fracturing of support for the president from
his hardest core supporters is something worth laughing about. Well, this is actually not parody, believe it or not, despite the two of them sort of acting like caricatures of themselves. As you know, very very cold and very close to the win winter solstice, which is this weekend. Is the CEO of Sleepout from vinnie each and every year we
have supported many many years. I have done it myself, have done shows from there, and I'm pleased to say we're joined by somebody in charge of Vinyes and somebody who is one of the participants tonight, Yolanda says, is the CEO of Vinnis, and by her side right now is Christine Mikhale, who is the CEO of l J. Hooker. Lady's nice to see you ready for a big one, and it looks like it's going to be a particularly cold one, Yolander.
Yeah, it looks like a going to be cold.
So we're already quite cold out here, Paul and I think mid morning it's going to be quite frosty out here, so we're looking forward to it. We've heard some amazing stories inside already from people who've experienced homelessness and talked to the CEOs and business leaders and community leaders about the issue of homelessness and we're halfway through the program, so we'll be getting back in there soon to hear a few more stories.
Good stuff. About fifteen hundred CEOs around the country will be taking part the best part of eight million dollars that is to be raised at this point here, but again you'll land it. We are now into the twentieth of the CEO's sleepouts. It feels like a blink since ten and the idea that it moves that fast. Yet the issue and problem of homelessness is that there are more homeless people than ever before. Is frightening in our communities, isn't it?
Yeah?
Look, unfortunately that's correct, and more people experiencing homelessness now than ever before. We've seen an increase in rough sleeping over the last year or so in New South Wales in particular and this year and going away, and that's because it's a complex issue housing, drug and alcohol addiction, perhaps other childhood traumas, as many issues you need to fix to get people and if people have homelessness, so
we continue with that effort. We're working with government obviously working with wonderful corporates to find solutions and to help as many people as we can.
Well and this is Imagine if this effort had never existed. Imagine if those minions had never been raised. Imagine if that awareness, Imagine the position that we would be. You know, I think what you and then Vinnyes do is amazing, Christine to your experience. I don't know if it's your first, your fifth of these CEO sleepbouts, but one of the things that a lot of people don't see is what happens inside from where you are right now, which is
hearing from people who have turned their lives around. But my goodness, let's be honest, for everyone watching, even myself included here, there are not many moves between where we stand right now and potential homelessness. Are there?
That is very true. This is my fourth our CEO sleep art, and my hope is I'll continue to come back. The stories are real and they really hit home. You know, any one of us could be one paycheck away from needing the support of Saint Visita Paul, whether that's for welfare, for food, for paying bills, or for our being able to have some shelter over our head. And the stories we've heard so far have really touched the center of not just myself but I'm sure all the other CEOs
and executives here tonight. It really is a phenomenal organization and a great program that's run that gives us a really good insight as to what SAT visitor Paul do and also what the cause is real.
Yeah, your company with l J. Hooker is synonymous with suburban Australia for many a generation. How important is it that for a company as significant as yours, that you representing it are there and helping.
I think it's really significant. We are a really privileged sector where we get to help people buy a home or rent a home every single day, many many times a day, and we can see, and I personally can see over the last thirty seven years of being in the industry just how important a home is and what value adds to a person and to families. And for us to be able to provide shelter every day for those that can afford it is one thing, but being here today is my way of assisting people who can't
afford it every day. And I think it's really important we all gather together, whether you're in the sector or not, to pull together and help every Australian be able to have shelter.
All right, good stuff, Thank you guys. Congratulations, all the best to everyone who's involved, and make the most of what is going to be a cold night. I think four degrees in Sydney tonight, it'll be five in Melbourne and we know it'll be a little bit chillier for those that are doing it in Canberra. Thank you guys,
really appreciate it and thank you for your efforts. A reminder, if you would like to sponsor Christine or anyone else who is at the CEO sleep Out, the website to have a look at is on your screen right now. CEO sleepout dot org dot au forward slash donation, CEO sleepout dot org dot au forward slash donation again. All of this is taking place all the way until tomorrow morning.
We've seen homelessness as a very significant issue. We've spoken a lot about it about the number of people who, as a result of the seriousness of things like cost of living, who the pressures are on them all day, every day. But CEO sleepout dot org dot au more than a sec here on Poor Marie Life. Thank you very much for watching. We're here with Roma, Bishop, Joe Hildebrand and Goo on old school this Thursday night in the man cover my friend. No one's going to do
some satellite issues. Know that we're all here. Lovely to see you both, love you to see you too, Joe, because I want to get a little plug. Got a new podcast up on the Nova platform for the record, but spelled FO You Are the record because I have a great Tim Blackwell of course from Drive and your good self. That's right. Why does FO you are matter?
But Tim Blackwell thought of that one because we asked for he asks four questions, yes, about a big story of to day, and then we sort of chat about it. We thought about calling it three the record, but that just didn't make any sense, so in no way.
But it's great.
Tim black has been fantastic and it's very funny. We just dropped the first episode.
And coming soon to sky on news dot com. That Are You. I'm going to do one question quiz. It'll just be one eventually. We'll just get it down to.
Now have a podcast, that podcast that's promoting my other podcast, Well love.
You to see you as well of course the carry over a chairp as always. Now let's get to tax reform and what tax reform actually means because we know the fundamentals right. The fundamentals are that the Intergenerational Report, which was by the way, released the same day, the same day that Donald Trump was taking a mug shot. Okay, so let's not pretend Trump turns up and everything turned
a pup, right. The structural spending of the federal government is now so massive that there is expected to be zero Obviously there might be every now and then, but zero budget surpluses between now in the twenty sixties. The population will apparently head up to forty million people, but the amount that government spends will continue to go up and up, up, up, meaning that the Ponzi scheme starts to fail, meaning it's time to start looking for new
forms of money. In fact, here is the Treasurer saying as.
Much, now, no sensible progress can be made on productivity, resilience or budget sustainability without proper consideration of more tax reform.
I don't just accept that. I welcome that everything's on the table. We've got ninety four seats. The opposition basically doesn't exist. We're going to rule forever. Seems like the perfect time Bromwin to actually start to say what they should have of course been forced to admit before the election. But among other things, this is everything from increasing the GST negative gearing on how saying if everything's on the table, then everything's on the table.
Well, you've heard me call him the snake charmer because he's the illusionist.
That whole campaign was based.
On a lie.
He said the budget is in great shape and then he goes to the press club and says it is unsustainable.
Now, that is the truth that we weren't told that.
And when he says more tax reform, live off the word reform, it just means more. Tax reform is the most overused word in the English language currently. It is meant to mean is a good outcome, but the way it's used it's just plain change. So what we're seeing is we've compressed a private sector which is useful and does have productivity growth to the exception of the economy which is now dependent on government spending. Correct and the
idea that he wants productivity. Now, when the Wolfer's term was designed against productivity, whether it was the ir changes, whether it was boosting more money into that sector at the expense of the private sector, taking people who were in the employment wanting a job going into that shall we say, less productive sector than where wealth is generated.
So it's a mess. And the idea that he's going to change the GST, I just laugh at that. I mean, I've heard it so often.
He knows dam well that bracket keep will give bracket creep will give him more money than changing the GST, and it will have less acts.
Yeah, I mean, the reality is that because of where they sit at their political centers right now, their assumption is that if the last major moment of tax reform was the nine ninety eight election in and around GST, and there was one hell of a backbench.
To boom say about that, the truth of it was that I was on the road selling the GST under John Houston.
It was part of fight back.
The work had already been done fair.
Famdard in nineteen ninety eight.
Quite frankly, John hard didn't have anything else to go to the election on. The work had already been done, so it was a matter of upgrading, and I was back on the road doing I can't tell you how many functions I do.
And it was.
The real purpose was to abolish the wholesale sales tax, which Paul keating had just increased dramatically, and that, in fact was why the reason that we went with it.
And one of the ways that that conversation takes place is is that when they were able to turn around, say, look, here's half a dozen taxes that currently exist, We're going to blast them all out and wrap it into something else. I know, I know we're we're fighting with the history there, but I'm just saying, just let me get going here, which is what is the positive example of tax reforming you? Because I know that that could mean, well, tax reform
also means company tax comes down and individual tax comes down. Yeah, but if the budget is currently unsustainable, more revenue has to come from somewhere.
Yep, that's right.
So one of the things that should cheer you all up is tax on electric vehicles. That's one of the things that's been flagged because of course, as fuel reliance goes down, you lose the petro tax.
So Biden, please come on that it is we've got to tap well done, Okay, that's we are a trillion dollars in debt, so this is not so not just balancing butt turnerant, So I get, let's give you some free run.
So you do so the best thing you can do. I mean the thing that the government has done more than anything. As soon as it got this massive mandate, as soon as it got this massive number of seats or whatever. Everyone's saying, oh, it's going to implement a scary new socialists agenda. They've been hiding this green left agenda. The first thing they started talking about was productivity. Now you can say, well, why didn't you do that in your first turn whatever, But that is the government's.
True second thing.
That is what tax reform, and that is what. But again, one leads to the other gives you more room for another. So if you have each worker being more an organization of the company's being more productive, they're going to produce more tax and that solves your budget problem. So if you solve the productivity problem to some extent, you solve the tax problem. There is of course a question about
either broadening the base of the GST or increasing the rate. Now, again that solves a lot of problems because you pick up a whole bunch of stuff. That means that you know, clever accountants can't get out of And I.
Reckon it's going to I reckon some of that, everything on the table is going to be We're going to pay negative gearing at two properties starting from this date. Everyone who's currently on the arrangement, you'll be fine, right. I think there'll be some of that stuff, so they
can start to fiddle with forever numbers. Because the political reality is that if everyone wants a spending but nobody wants to pay for it, then one of those two things is going to break, and break sooner rather than like Well.
The reason he said that more tax reform is because of the need for more money to be spent on defense and more money to be spent to support the care economy, of which the NDI is, of course, is the largest component. The reality is that if you stopped try to rewire the nation and gave up on the ridiculous concept of transmission lines one trillion dollars, that could pay for our defense requirements and it could pay for a lot of the care economy.
But you can't have both.
You can't have this expensive system of energy which is crawling productivity and increase expenditure on defending our own nation.
I agree. But a problem, or the problem, of course, Joe, is we just had an election where it was pretty obvious what the government's position was. It was pretty obvious what they're double down was numbers just right, and then people don't like it.
I've got no problem with nuclear.
The Australian Electric does, okay, And yes, there are going to be upfront capital expenses associated with building all this infrastructure, and yes you're going to kiss goodbye to all those you know, those resources.
From the first person fifteen US is sat here and actually said that, yeah, that's right. I guess what it's going to cost a lot to build it, and that flows through somehow somewhere, and the first one actually admit it.
And then the hope is that.
The hope is that eventually, because you've spent all that money, once it is there, once you've got the battery storage, once the technology is there, and maybe we will have small nuclear reactors one day that solve all our problems. Maybe green hydrogen will, but this is the way the rest of the world is going. Yes it's someone doing it with nuclear, but either way, we're not going to be able to rely on coal forever simply because there will no longer be a market for it elsewhere.
So we have to start looking at other things.
The market's going to be there for a long, long long time to come. And the reality is that it produces the cheapest power, which is why India uses it, why China uses it.
Yep, but they will be coming down and China, I mean everyone rolls out the China example. Yes, China's building a lot of coal fire power Stata.
It is also.
Building a huge amount of wind farms and solar farms. It is building more of both than any other economy. And that's because it's bigger than any other economy. And yes, it gets a bit of a get out of jail free card for its coal use because it's got an extra the rest of.
Us cole is producing most of bits required. But also and it can do it, and it can do it cheaply.
But also is Australia sitting in a position where because of our comfort. Right, reality is when you look at the climate clock of every country and how much they produce the said this million times before, right, China takes you to quarter past all right, NI zero doesn't affect them, right, Instead, thirty three percent of global emissions the third world or developing or global South takes you about half past. Right, Then we go India, then we go Russia, then we
go to the United States. That's forty five minutes of the climate clock. That basically ain't playing with Parish.
Yeah, and I think if everyone spent all their energy saying no, China should not get a carve out for an extra.
Ten years, that the rest of us don't.
It is redictus that a company that is a country that is clearly a superpower, that has its own space program and is effectively an empire state, that they should not have that extra ten years, instead of arguing about all the other stuff about you know.
And what do you reckon their reaction b see, Yeah.
That's all state. That is the real You know what I love most Joe is that he's heard every one of those lines I've said for how many years? And now you know there's free ninety five seats now a contender and say, you know what, You're right, Paul, China's not a developing country. It's got an all space station. Yeah, you're right, Paul, the cost of transmission absolutely correct? All right, quick break back with more lots more to talk about and strangely agree here, Paul Murray live more than a
sect including winners and losers of the week. We have a little bit of breaking news coming out of Victoria and it is all to do with the former Liberal leader in state politics there, John Pursudo. Now, as you know, there was a deformation proceeding that he lost and that he had to pay a significant amount of money to the Upper House INMP more redeeming because of defamatory comments
that he had made. Well, the breaking news after a meeting of the Liberal Party tonight is that the Liberal Party will loan it's formal leader apparently one and a half million dollars to help pay off the defamation bill that he has to pay to an Upper House member. This means he doesn't go bankrupt, It means it's not a by election. Bromwin, your thoughts on the Liberal Party bailing out a former leader who had defined one of his.
Own well right from the beginning, he was very stupid in the weak conducted himself. But this decision, to my mind, is them saying, how much would a by election cost us? Are we prepared to spend money to stop the by election occurring?
Is that figure about one point five million? Therefore we'll lend it to him.
Yeah, it feels like that doesn't it. It's also I mean, look again apparently inside the room or the current liberal leader. So again doing that calculations on what would a by election mean. Remember, of course in terms of previous polling, supposedly the governments on the rack. But they said that about Victorian Labor going into the last federal election. So yeah, that's the point.
I don't want an election at all. So they've eatened it up.
All right. Credit to our colleagues Simon Love first, with information further confirmed by the erld Son and the Age. All right, Joe, Yes, let's get to the Trump maga and iran of it all. Obviously, this far away, none of us have any idea what is about to happen in the next little while. But also we do see what I think. I don't believe that it's been a
sore that's been long lasting. But it's this concept of how much is Trump a phenomenon on his own versus some of the people who have supported him along the way, who have worked very hard at the very grassroots level to register people to vote, to banging the message, to refine the message, to spread the message. Because obviously we know a lot of those people don't want what might happen in Iran to be the opening of a door towards Afghanistan. A right two point zero? What do you
think of this? As not quite a Trumpert fan, but certainly somebody who's aware of it.
Yeah, I'm not a trumpeter either, but the fact is he doesn't have any runs on the board in this presidency in terms of foreign affairs. He came in talking a big game. I'm not going to pull out the whole Taco thing, but he talked a big game on Russia Ukraine. Nothing, if anything, it's gotten worse. Pudent's just laughing at him and ignoring him. Talked a big game on Israel and Gaza, and again same thing. If anything, the situation has declined. Iran is different because Russia Ukraine
that's something intractable. It's been a fight over territorial fight for centuries. Same with Israel and Palestine. Iran is actually pretty straightforward. For one thing, it's very clear what the US could do to make a real difference, which is to just give Israel a rather just come in and use those big bunker busting bombs that get into those deep underground bunkers where they think they're hiding all their nuclear stuff. So the US could do that. It's a
very clear option. And then what happens, How do the Iranians retaliate? No one likes the Iranian regime. The Iranian people don't like the Iranian regime. If it's weak enough and you take out enough of the revolutionary guard, there's every chance there could be another revolution like there was just over a decade ago, and this one could work.
Iran's only ally is Russia.
It's currently up to its armpits in blood and the other stuff. In Ukraine, it doesn't have any resources it can lend Iran. You've got Putent running around trying to provide political coverings.
Oh no, we should seek a diplomatic solution.
It's like really like you did with Ukraine.
But it's the capacity for sleeper cells, our god, that to be the blowback paper cells.
Aren't really sure though they're Sunnis bromisis Is. Sunni Isis hates Iran more than anyone else.
Well, you left out one ally of Iran, and that's China.
Correct, That's that's the sort of a couple of degrees removed, I think.
But yes, it's a very particularly on sourcing oil Iran. But I I think firstly on the question of will the mega base stick. You've even got Steve Bannon coming out late this afternoon saying whatever.
He decides, if he goes in, they'll stick with him.
Yeah. But that's also in part because, and this is the interesting thing about some of those voices, they want proximity to Trump, right. Their strength comes from their proximity to Trump, not necessarily their opposition to Trump. In Bannon's role, particularly, he has to adventure. There's only so far he can go out before you come back in. But it's a fair observation that yes, it is starting to come back in. It is done.
This would involve any boots on the ground. That's the other thing.
You can.
Boots on the ground at all.
I think I think there's still a question mark.
Would the be fifty two dropping this very large bomb actually work?
And this apparently no, that's the discussion. Is apparently part of the back way to find out. But literally this version of it has never been used before. So they're trying to say, hang on, okay, if I do this, this could kick up a hornet's nest. Am I going to kill the Hornet's nest.
The other thing is I think it's interesting that Israel doesn't come out and say we want America to come in. They say, we're fighting this, we're doing this, we want assistance. Is that the only solution or are there other things they've got in mind?
Well, but also the obvious assistance is through the munition. So the only reason they're able to keep things safe out of the sky is about the amount of re enforcement.
Trump is not doing nothing America.
That's right, But obviously the big bunker busters are stuff that presumably the US would only let its own personnel use as much as the resource doesn't have that material. It has to be a US soldier who deploys. A US officer.
Member of the US says, the big bomb would do that.
But what better way to find out?
Again, but you do this to a Iran who comes to their aid. None of the other Gulf states do.
They all hate them.
Rush is too busy.
China is not going to launch World War II for the sake of Iran. It doesn't care about it that much. It's got other priorities.
And last one's here, winner and loser of the week, who stands out for you?
Well, the winner of the week I think is the CEOs. He've done the sleep out.
We'll play, will play.
And the loser of the week is Alban Easy and he honestly looks like a groupie chasing after a rock star.
What about? What about is his grab where he was talking about essentially, you know, I'd met with lots of people at the kids and then just to pat out the answerside, and I've said good ad to a lot of them as well. Even what a win Joe.
I'm going to say the winner is John Persudo.
I mean, how on earth do you get yourself as a registered charity for.
A one point five billion million dollar donation to.
Pay a legal bill you could have got out of about six different times. And I would say the loser of the week. Controversially, I know, I'd say the loser of the week is Donald Trump because he missed out on the pleasure of Elbow's company.
And imagine, I mean imagine I triggered a few peeps. Certainly he could do the vote roses of red, violets of blue. But just in case you missed, what at this this moment of trying to pad out the CV about how great the G seven was here is the d leader.
I had discussions with President mccron of France, Prime Minister Modi of India, Prime Minister Ramoposa of South Africa, Prime Minister Shinbaum of Mexico, Prime Minister Maloney of Italy, as well as saying gooday to a whole bunch of other people during the day.
Oh good day, and the NATO secretary there as well. Already, thank you lovely people. I'd be proud to be in Australia.
I'm sure, no doubt. All right, all right, thank you guys. Next week, Love you guys, Thank you Broblin, Thank you Joe. It's how break. We'll be back more in a second before we are done here. When it comes to our week on Paul Murray Live, don't forget the late debate firing up about seven minutes from now that I've got plenty more to say before there. Can I show you a picture. This is not a work of art, but this was something that was apparently on its way away
in New South Wales public school. That is a bench made up of mushrooms. Apparently it was worth eighty thousand dollars. Right, guess what it is? Not to be turning up at a public school because it's been ruled a bio hazard. Nobody double check anywhere. I mean, remember all these people all day every day in the bureaucracy. You know what we need. We need a mushroom chair because that will
exploit creativity and will create inclusiveness. Or maybe it's a metaphor for how the left think of you know, the general citizenry. Right, keep you in the dark and feed
you dot dot dot right. Anyway, an independent Commission Against Corruption Inquiry has heard about all of this that Schools in Structure in New South Wales had a conversation and they paid a consulting firm from six hundred and six sorry six hundred and seventy six thousand dollars to produce a sustainability and innovation roadmap for building a and furnishing schools, including investigating the use of engineered living materials. So the
result was somebody came up with that garbage. The person decided that this root like fungal material at a cost of seventy nine thousand, seven hundred dollars from a US based company would be great for a new public school which is being redeveloped it's actually an old public school
Fort Street at Observatory Hill in Sydney. However, despite somebody understanding that the bench would meet astraight his strict quarantine requirements, by the time it arrived in Sydney more than a year later, customs officials said computer says no. I just want to say congratulations to every single person involved in
this decision. From the person who went, yeah, we should have more of these, to the person who said, yah, I'll give you the money more of these, to the person who said yeah, has that turned up yet, man, To the person who said yeah, it'll be okay, dude, to the person who said, oh, I think we've got a problem. But most importantly to the kids who will never have to see that ugly garbage anywhere near their school. Have a great weekend. Go Tigers, Go Yankees. See you Sunday. He's the late Debate