From the Skying Center. This is Paul Murray Live, Happy Sunday. Thank you so much for watching. We've got a lot happening in the man Cat tonight, including this may just seem like some normal TV hosts desk Gurber normal show. Tonight, an official ceremony will be performed, which is right now that this will now turn into the Table of Knowledge. Now you know many a pub has them. Thank god, AI,
we're quickly able to put this together for us. But tonight and on every Sunday night, we're going to do a new thing, which is called the Table Knowledge, where much bigger brains than mine, much smarter people than I, are going to be sitting around here talking about big issues. Because clearly, one of the worst possible thought crimes that you can commit in modern Australia or the modern West is to wonder out loud where sometimes there's a question
and you'll work out the answer together. So that's the plan for Sunday Nights for the next little while. And believe me, the two we've got for tonight, they automatically qualify and they'll deserve a second hour. Such will be their insights. I guarantee your love them in a moment
or two time. Obviously, we'll discuss all the matters to do with the news in and around today, including you know, the small news of the beginning potentially of World War three in the Middle East, the meeting that the media is very excited about between our Prime Minister and the United States President, and I want to ask both of them, because both of them have got skin in the gaming about how knit zero became a purity test for both
the left and the right. Unless you believe a certain view of that, then somehow you're not allowed to be in the club. Now, speaking of the club, I love being able to go and do ourtowns all over the country, and in a couple of weeks time, we're heading back to Newcastle in New South Wales. If you would like to join us in the audience in a couple of sunday's time, the twenty ninth of June, please send me an email right now ourtown at skynews dot com dot
AU outown at skynews dot com. Do are you. I've got friends and family, but that's only going to be a small section of the audience. The rest of the rooms to be filled by the good viewers of this program, who can get there, not this Sunday, nor next Sunday, the Sunday after so a couple of weeks away, Sunday, the twenty ninth of June, ourtown. It's skynews dot com
dot Au. And again before I get to big issues, and there are a lot of big issues apart from the table of knowledge discussions, can we start on something positive and see where we end up in the next sixty minutes. One of the best Australians amongst us is
Professor Richard Scollier now. Professor Scollier is a man who has been absolutely at the front of trying to come up with that dream of not just cancer treatment, but maybe just maybe finding a way for us to be able to get over very significant cancers that take too many people for too long. And if you've lost somebody of recent days, weeks or years ago to cancer, strength and love to you. We always think of them, and that's why we turn the light to the people who
are trying to fix the problem now. He was a ordered a couple of years ago as the Australian of the Year for his work with his colleagues into this exact area and then the journey since has been an incredible one. One of the greatest minds fighting cancer ended up with cancer. Then as a result of his own insight and his own special treatments, we learned that the
cancer was in remission, which is unbelievable right. And then towards the start of this year we heard again that Richard Scollier was dealing with another bout of this insidious, horrible disease that he has spent his professional life trying to defeat, and his personal soul fighting at each and
every day. Well, this bloke is the reason that I want to start the show and start the week by talking about him and his internal strength because he, along all of this battle is a person who has done many a park run, and this week, despite the fact that yes he is yet again in the battle for his life, he is still showing how full of life he is. He has just competed this weekend in his two hundred and fiftieth park Run, which is a goal that he set himself after being first diagnosed with cancer.
He made that run yesterday and hundreds of people were there to do it with him and to cheer him on. This bloke was the Australian the Year a couple of years ago, but for me, he is the Australian of the Year for all time, because never give up, always fight, use your talents to help others. And this is what he said after that incredible personal feat of strength. To be able to run two hundred and fifty park runs.
Has been a big goal.
To be honest, I never thought that I'd get there.
On social media, wasn't posting as much because of some of those challenges that I've come out of the bottom of that cloud.
What a special Australian. We love him all the best to him, his family and everyone who supports him. And if you can one of the many causes, but certainly the cancer counsel and all of the work that he and his people do. Thank you for what you do and thank you for the example that you lead, professor. What a spectacular example of life that you send to
all of us. The idea that you are both inspiration and the person who might be able to provide medical inspiration to people is just something we should never never, never, never take granted, take for granted, and in my view it's underlined again the joy that we have being able to live on the island continent that is Australia, because yes, you have seen the news over the past few days of what is a tectonic struggle between Israel it's right
to exist, Iran, a country it's significant to wealth and power that has done all it can to try to take down Israel. Israel of course first hit Iran in the past couple of days, trying to go after the nuclear program. Iran then of course respond with a whole series of targeted drones as well. Much has been said over this weekend, but I'm not going to toss over
the hot coals of this. But of course Benjamin Ettanya, who who is of course responsible for what is happening to both the north and the south and now to the east of his country right now, well, he of course is standing up for his own nation, and the world has been dealing with said consequences, particularly after of course the horrific attacks from Hamas in October seven, a
couple of years ago. But forgive me for saying, one of the joys of living this far away from many of the world's trouble spots is that every now and then, while we can have an opinion and a view on
global issues. Sometimes, just sometimes, Australia does not always need to be on the front foot in the global discussion about who's right, who's wrong, who we help and who we don't, and believe it or not, I agree with the Prime Minister when he was quoted saying this this weekend about this very situation that put simply, we do not play a role.
Now.
I know for some people they believe that as part of the Community of Nations we play a role. But essentially, of course the nation state of Australia is not involved in the tectonic struggles that take place in places like the Middle East. In fact, here is part of what the Prime Minister had to say about this this weekend while making his way towards the G seven. Not playing a role, and to be honest, that I think is
where the Australian government's position should be. But there are those who believe, as part of the Community of Nations, we should speak as loudly about every single issue that happens all over the world in real time, because technology means we are able to watch things happening on the other side of the world in real time, no matter how positive, no matter how ghastly they happen to be. And a perfect example of that is the Foreign Minister
Penny Wong. Now there is no doubt about what she believes, there is no doubt about how she is clearly no fan of the Israeli Prime Minister or the Israeli government.
We know that.
But in part, what she has had to say is that despite the fact that we are talking about Iran, which is an existential threat to Israel, and Israel obviously bracing itself for the response to dealing with the threats in Iran, she has said, while they have a right to self defense, restraint is absolutely needed. Now I always find this amazing, the selective moral view that Australia, through its government takes when it comes to issues overseas and
issues particularly involving this part of the world. This is what she had to say today, as again the Prime Minister says, we're not involved in this right put simply, yes, okay, if we have a view, it's a view on the but we are not part of this. Okay. We're not helping, we're not opposing. It is just another part of the world's problem. But then you have the woman who, of course in diplomatic circles would be just as comfortable discussing redrawing the maps of the world as anyone at the
United Nations. This is what she had to say, I think on taxpayer telling this week, Israel has a right to self defense. It does have a right to self defense.
We urge the escalation, we urge restraint, we urge dialogue and diplomacy.
But the joy of being as far away as we are is that we can see with some perspective the multiple angles there are on military conflict that does not involve US as a nation state, and there is, as you can see below, the wars within wars. Now, obviously there's sections of the community that will say one side is one hundred percent right, one side is one hundred percent wrong. There will be those that will say I'm
not interested at all. And then there are those that, of course are paying attention to the people who are the chief supporters of one side or the other in all of this, which means it's time to talk about the United States and it's President Donald Trump. Now, Remember one of the things that he's been absolutely clear about is that he wants to downscale the world when it
comes to military conflict. He has said, whether you agree with it or not, I happen to agree with it, and I happen to believe it's his position, which is that he wants peace. He wants all the wars in the world to wind up as fast as possible. And the reporting late last week was that before the strike from Israel to Iran took place, that he did not want that to actually take place. In fact, he wrote
publicly that we are fairly close to an agreement. As long as I think there is an agreement, I don't want them going in because that would blow up. Referring to Israel about Iran might help it actually, but also could blow it. And then once the strikes of Israel towards Iran and the retaliatory strikes of Iran to Israel take place, we then have the scenario of key backers
of Israel speaking about the president's position. Here that basically the Trump administration is now in a position where they are saying publicly they're going to back Israel all the way on what they previously had said they should show caution about, which was whether to take it to the hot war level with Iran, said Ator Lindsey Graham applauded the Trump administration's handling of the nuclear issue without getting people killed. Yeah, we're trying, but sometimes you've got to
do or what you're going to do, says Donald Trump. Now, what is fascinating about all of this is that when you look at the coalition that Trump was able to put in place, that meant the result of the twenty twenty four election was different than the twenty twenty election. And yes, it is some of the source that was there in twenty sixteen. And believe it or not, we're coming this close to the tenth anniversary of when Donald
Trump came down that escalator. Won't that be fun for all of their heads to explode and the lefty newsrooms all around the world. But there are a very significant series of people who are really hardcore about say things like America First, who believe that America should have learnt its lesson by getting involved in things like say the Iraq War or the Afghanistan War, which went for the best part of twenty years and cost literally trillions of dollars.
America today is now thirty seven trillion dollars in debt, and their view is that America does not need to get involved in anything that is not about the defense of the United States because they are so far in debt. Now again, will there be other countries like China that step in with not so subtle diplomacy or mill tension. Yes,
quite perhaps, but that is part of the America First agenda. Well. Interestingly, Steve Bannon, who of course worked with Donald Trump to make him president in twenty sixteen, worked for Donald Trump
as the president in twenty and seventeen and eighteen. He was a massive force about not just denialism in and around the twenty twenty election, but also trying to hold MAGA together so that when Donald Trump ran again beginning in twenty two out of twenty four, that he had an unimpeded run towards the Republican nomination, and then that everyone did all they could to make sure that he was elected president. So take note not of what you agree with, but of what some very significant people are
saying in and around the orbit of the president. And no one, and I mean no one gets MAGA like Steve Bannon gets MAGA because in many ways he leads MAGA on Trump's behalf.
We don't oppose Israel being Israel first.
We get it.
They should be Israel first, but we have to be America first. We have to do it right now. This Third World War is all encompassing, just like the First World War and just like the Second World War, and it's playing out in the streets of the United States of America.
Now.
Again, the way the world has worked since the end of World War II is that the United States being the leader of free nations, literally having the United Nations Building in New York litt alone, being a significant defender all the way around the world of freedom and its values. It's something that people like Bannon say needs to come to an end, not that they should give up on their freedom, but the idea that they are the supplementary
force that defends everything everywhere. Hence why there is the endless pressure from magaworld. The countries like Australia, which are put simply always had at the heart of the plan. But if it really got in trouble in this country, that it would be the United States that would be coming to back us up, that they would be able to tenfold, be able to put on the ground what we have here in Australia. So as we contemplate the way the world works and how difficult things can be
on the other side. Never ever, ever lose sight of how amazing it is in this country, never lose sight of the ability, obviously for us to live in the relative peace that we do. Where the biggest complaint in our country this weekend's been about how cold it has been. We're the only consequence of this potentially huge escalation in military conflict between Israel and Iran, Iran and Israel, the proxies of Iran, the supporters of Israel, is that we
are going to feel some pain from this. But the pain is most likely not going to be in blood and treasure. It is instead going to be an increase in things like petrol prices. Shannelova, speaking to the ABC as the AMP chief economist, said that if oil prices are sustained at these higher levels, there could be a flow on of about twelve cents a liter when it comes to Australian petrol stations. Of course, petrol, if it
continues to go up, we'll feed into inflation. If inflation starts to go back up and we go above the three percent, then are we going to see interest rates? Definitely not be dropped, but maybe go higher. Well, that is one of the consequences that is apparently one of the justifications as opposed to the poor economic management of the government that's freshly been re elected as to why interest rates were as high as they were for as
long as they had been. When Russia invaded Ukraine in early twenty twenty two, the Ensuring War disrupted global oil and energy supplies in a major way, but economists say the Reserve Bank will likely look through any near term boost to inflation that comes from higher petrol prices as a result of the conflict, but they say that would change if the conflict escalated so got bigger than where we are right now, or went for longer than a
couple of days of here or there. So pay attention, but enjoy the relative peace and in my view, follow where the Prime Minister has been, which is, while we can all have an opinion, thankfully Australia not involved in the fight, doesn't mean we don't care, doesn't mean we don't have a preferred outcome. But I think a step back is a better place for Australia to be. But that's just me.
Now.
The media that is focused in and around Australian politics. Is kind of bored about talking about Australian politics. Why because they like the government they've got. They had no interest in changing them, let alone calling out anything they've ever done wrong. Instead, there is one name that, as we know, during the election campaign and many many months before and the many many months to come, they are more obsessed with than anyone in Australian politics. First to
the US where Donald Trump is Donald Trump. President Donald Trump's with Donald Trump and get ready because there is about to be a meeting of the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Aberinzi and the US President Donald Trump. Andrew Colnell, who is traveling with the Australian Prime Minister, can explain exactly the where and when of this meeting.
The first bilateral meeting between the pair will occur in Kananascus, Canada, early Wednesday Australian time. The PM said he would emphasize to President Trump the strength of the Orcus Agreement and the fact marines are stationed in the Northern Territory. He would also talk up free and fair trade.
But can I also turn down the expectations and turn down the temperature on what some figures in the media are referring to as the most important meeting of Anthony Abanzi's prime ministerial career. Now, yes, there'll be plenty of people that will be trying to read into the body language of do they like each other? Do they not like each other? Did the biggest star in the political world embrace or reject Donald Trump? But literally, this is one of the headlines this weekend, right, which is the
most important meeting of Albanese's career, just got trickier. Now, in part all of that is because of what I mentioned before that the United States or a magafaction inside the government of the United States, believe that Australia should be spending more of our money to make sure that we can defend ourselves so that America doesn't do all of the heavy lifting should Australia ever have to defend itself.
And you've seen lots of stories over the part of all while like Australia when it comes to defense spending is sort of falling behind the eight ball. Now, obviously we're not going to spend as much as America or China, but we're ranked fifteenth in the world. The federal government says no, no, we're paying enough already. Firstly, there's the hundreds of billions of dollars orchestral when it comes to submarines
and they're putting money on the table. Remember it was just this year where the first of the payments eight hundred million Australian dollars which is five hundred million American dollars was put in place. But a fascinating question that we will discuss tonight and one that we will have to think about into the future here is that have we bet on the wrong technology when it comes to submarines.
I don't have a view, but one thing that is absolutely clear is that Australia needs to up its game when it comes to drones because as we saw with Ukraine and it's hit inside Russia the video you can see on Telly right now, or when it comes to the response and the playout that's happening between Israel and Iran, and Iran and Israel, drones and the militarization of drones seems to be going up and up and upper gear.
Why because, apart from anything else, they're quite small. If you swarm we'd say dozens or hundreds of them at once, it's very hard for them to be knocked out of the sky. But that's part of the conversation, right But instead, you know, all the news is just going to be Trump looked this way, looked disinterested, was happy. Kevin Rudd has been reaffirmed as the ambassador, the great Ambassador of the United States, because they had this many you know,
all the garbage, it's going to happen. But bear with me while I make a little point here. Australia's defense absolute paramount. Australia's need to have the best possible defense absolutely clear. No if no, but no maybe. But I
am going to introduce a dot dot dot. I think it is hard to convince Australians we need to spend more money on our defense because when we spend so much money in tax there are really little examples of the bigger issue, which does government actually work for all of us, no matter how much we have to work for the government? Perfect example. It's a serious story, but it's one that had a bit of a funny twist to it. This weekend, the number of potholes in and
around Victoria's terrible regional rowan network. Great stuff being done by the Sunday Herald Sun and the Herald Sun more generally to go off and have a look at some of these crappy roads. But as I said, think about this, while people are driving on roads like this, how willing are there for their government to spend billions of dollars more on the defense of our country.
Main road Tallrook.
These ones over here have the potential to make tires border than my father.
About an hour out of Melbourne up north, this one has all the makings of a fatal collision.
A busy three way intersection.
Constant heavy truck movements and bone rattling corrugations.
But don't swerve, there's a blind corner up ahead.
And the funny take on all of this is that some people to make the point about how many potholes there are in Victorian regional roads, obviously it was a setup for cameras and fine, fair enough, it's a good funny point. Is that some people, well a bloke who's decided to throw a bunch of ice in one of these holes because they're so deep and turn them into
and eski. Now, for obvious reasons, it's not how people are actually spending their Friday nights, but it makes a good point right that these roads are so crappy that and they're so deep these potholes, and he had damage to his car at least eight hundred bucks. That this is a way to make the point about the crappy potholes.
And again this might seem strange that I am talking about potholes in Victoria defense with the United States, but this is where Australia is in terms of our defense priorities and the ability for it to be an election issue for people to understand that we need to invest in our defense. Is that it's difficult to take them on that journey when the basics, like a whole at
the end of the road is not being fixed. Because we all know we're not one of those countries where the people go poor but the military gets billions and billions and billions. We're not that sort of country, right, Hence why we should not be the type of country that can't do some of the basics but is necessarily having to step up when it comes to the world stage and defense. Again, that funny bloke when it came to the eski.
Our potlol around here is so bad and we start using them as an eski ivan out here what you see on TV on out back truckers. You know, potholes everywhere, corrugations everywhere.
Cheers. Now, before we crack open, the Table of Knowledge had an official ceremony a bit earlier today, looking forward to this. Remember last weekend, sorry, towards the end of last week, we're talking about that horrible plane crash in India. Now, obviously this story is distressing and the images are distressing as well. So if you are disturbed by those images, time to quickly look away where you know that this was a plane crash which killed a couple hundred people.
But then there was this weird story that happened where one bloke survived. The bloke from eleven A literally survived the plane crash, and like you, I've been asking the same question, how the hell did that happen. There's a whole bunch of former pilots, including some you'll see on this network. But then there are also some other great ones are out there on YouTube. This is one from America and he sort of explains why I seed eleven A may well have survived when everyone else didn't.
He's been confirmed it wasn't a hoax. He was in seat eleven a. He was right by an emergency exit a few rows in front of the spar of the wing of the aircraft. I think that spar saved his life because that's the strongest, heaviest part of the airplane. That's probably what took the impact when they hit those buildings. He was in his seat, he didn't go unconscious. He gets out of he opens up the door and he jumps out of the airplane, right, and he's literally walking
to the hospital after that. They've talked to him and he said, just prior to the crash, he heard a loud bang and the lights flickered on the inside of the airplane.
Unbelievable. Right.
He goes on to explain in that VD, I want try on Thawn captain save in the next few days. Right, Which is is that that flickering of the lots is a sawn off. The particular pot of the aircraft that might will have on the filed would certainly have plied a role in the fact that one person survived doesn't
change anything to do with the tragedy. But it's always amazing how often the news moves on, and certainly in times where war is declared and all the rest of it, but I thought you may have asked the same question much of this weekend, so I did my best to work it out. If Captain Steve is right or not,
it is a phenomenal story. Quick break back with more the Table of Knowledge and two incredibly big brain wonderful blokes will join us in the man Cave to talk about big issues and wonder out loud dangerous TV ahead people adults only, of course. A little bit of news that was around today. Twenty billion dollar deal Amazon. Yes, the people who produce an awful lot of things. Their real business is that they have a lot of the back end for the Internet. Twenty billion dollars worth of the
data centers coming to Australia. Yay. How many jobs? Not many? What will anyone have to do? Not much? How will it be powered? Wind mills? Wind mills and solar panels are apparently how Australia is going to keep the Internet online. Twenty billion dollars is part of what is happening there, suck. Now, let's talk about the Table of Knowledge and joining us right now, two big brain blokes. One used to be the Deputy Prime Minister of the country. You can see
him in lots of different places. The wonderful John Anderson the Bloker, used to run the Australian Financial Reviews. Michael Stutchbury he also has the best sideburns in Australian media, but he's on his way towards the center of independent studies. Lads, let's do something really dangerous and wonder out loud. Talk about some stuff that's not bite size, not bumper sticker, and not stuff that the left will be all that
interested in watching. But everyone watching is a free thinking adult, So let's get into some big questions including I mentioned this a couple of moments ago, which was about how Australians make sense of what's happening right now between Israel and Iran. Right to put this in very simple terms. For a certain series of people, it's about good guys and bad guys. For a whole series of people, it's about who was wrong first, who was all of this right?
And we all know that once you start pulling at any one of those threads, we're here for the next five hours. But what I was trying to say about, say, Australia and defense spending, when there's a pothole, it's not fixed, you know, good luck trying to convince me we need to spend more money on this, that and the other. But from both of your perspectives, I know people care. It's not a question about whether they care or not. But how do they make sense of the next few days?
Because I'll be honest, I cannot believe my ten year old daughter ask me today is World War three starting? It's gone first?
Well, I was in for this one. Maybe I was in Israel for a week just three weeks ago. Yes, of course, and it's always a fascinating of second time, since twenty thirteen, it's always a fascinating thing to do.
I think the really thing.
That stood out to me from being there for a week was that, after October seven, twenty twenty three, when, of course the Harmus attack over the border, twelve hundred Israelis basically murdered in cold blood and two hundred and fifty taken hostage. That was a real moment for Israel of national obvis catastrophe in christis one of the major security breaches that ever in Israeli history. Since the State
of Israel's formed in nineteen forty eight. Things happened since then is that Israel has got immeasurably militarily stronger a number of things. Hezbela and all these Humas is of course an Iranian proxy. Iranian Iran People's Republic of Iran is really orchestrating a lot of this. And Hamas is the terrorist proxy in Gaza taking Israel over the northern border. Hesbela over in Syria and then in Lebanon have been attacking.
And the whole idea of that Hesbela was supposed to rain down bob terror on Israel, which would wipe it off the earth. Those pages and the exploding pages and the mobile phones. That's took out incredible sort of modern warfare, if you like, took out Hezbola. Then Iran attacked Israel sent earlier sort of in twenty three twenty four set of bombs into Israel. Israel responded and took out Iran's defenses,
its air defenses, so I became defenseless. And so as a result of this, all of Israel's enemies were really in the region, were on the back foot. And the question there just three weeks ago was should Israel then take advantage of this great opportunity, historical opportunity with Iran weakened, its proxies, weakened, ran it on the back foot to take out its nuclear weapons facility because it's threatening to build a nuclear bomb and it's also vowing to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Isn't it also a scenario where because essentially American presidents everyone said, oh, look, just you the last thing we wants to write Iran versus Israel, Right, this is point in a return. They've got bigger guns than some of that. But the reality was they exposed that Hesbella was not going to was not able to wipe them off the map. And now it's been I think it's obvious in its early days that the expectation that if there's ever a shot between the two, then Iran gos nuts and there
could be countries blown away. And yes, that all could still be in its future. But is that a way of trying to explain it to people too, which is that it's finally enough talk and threat, let's actually see what the threat is.
I think it's a little more basic than that.
The first responsibility of any sovereign government worth its salt, including our own, is the defense and security of its own people.
It's no use.
Having a strong economy, or a fair economy, or a just economy, or an economy that's trying to take advantage of a new opportunity.
If you don't have an economy, if you don't have a societ.
That's the first That's what the Commonwealth of Australia was set up for. Picture it from the Israeli perspective. You've got a neighbor, and it's not just her.
Mass that have been doing their dirty work. It's Hezbollah.
It's been the Hearthys, a neighbor that's so intent and so open about his intention to wipe you off the face of the earth. Oh no, we don't want to stop Jews living there. We just want them to live under a gazen state. Well, you want a white mart you want to destroy their democracy.
It's a democracy that should matter for a start.
You want them instead of living in a highly sophisticated cultural environment like the Israelis. Do you want to live like garzens do? That's the choice you want to impose on them.
It was entirely.
Predictable that it would come to this, in my view, and it's deeply illustrative that other nations in the region are not exactly rushing to Iran's defense. Why they don't want them to have nuclear arms either. That'll start an eye nuclear arms.
Race in the region. The Israelis.
Need, we need to recognize that what has happened in Gaza in the end is the responsibility of Hamas a muss are, the responsibility of Iran. Iran is under attack now it's its own fault because they said they would obliterate a neighbor, a democracy one we ought to believe in. We have many wonderful Jewish citizens in Australia. I think we're not thinking clearly and I think we've lost our
moral compass on a lot of us. None of us want war, but sometimes you need to take decisive action to try and ensure the safety of many more of us.
So this brings me to where the Prime Minister is today and whether it's a cop out position, but I like it being somewhat turned down, which is the idea of Australia's not involved, right where this is not our fight. Right, Yes, we have a worldview all of those, but this is not our fight. Then Pennywong straight away, within a couple of hours is out there telling Israel basically to turn it down right, yes, technically Iran as well, but we all know what's what she's really saying. Which of those
positions is the better one? The Prime Minister's position, which is Okay, we get it, it's going on, but it's it's not our fight, or Penny wants. Well.
Where this could go is when you start a big shooting match like this, there's no doubt that it could go very very bad. You know, we're talking about nuclear, nuclear war and.
Things could it could go back.
But as John says, this is an opportunity also to stop that from happening. And the grand thing that could happen out of all of this is because, as John says, the Saudis, which is the other big power in the region, they don't want the Sunni, they don't want the sheer Iranians to have nuclear weapons. They don't like all the
hamas and the terrorism. They want to build more of a modern state and gone from fundamentalism really to nationalism the Saudis, so they are more than the sort of you know, they'll they'll object to what the Israelis are doing, but they won't raise up arms against it, and they will want they don't want the thing to blow up and to escalate. But more than that, before the is for the Iranians to be put in their place, perhaps the regime to fall, because you know there's sanctions, inflations
high there, the economies in trouble. Is the regime going to totter and you could have that, you get the Saudis are leading what is an accommodation with Israel, and you could get a big piece brought to it.
Now that's the thing.
That's trying to push to which was why Hamas attacked Israel in the first place, which was to stop the Saudis striking a deal with Israel.
At the behest of the Auranians.
Yes, great, but also partly funded by the Qataris. And there's sort of this strange moment where the Qataris and their funding of what's been going on. But then they're on beyond speaking terms with the American President in terms of he's a plane all the rest of it, right about who who being held accountable for that or not, Which brings me to the Prime minister meeting with Donald Trump tomorrow. You've already seen it in parts of the media.
The biggest meeting in the history of Anthony Iberaneese's life. Look doesn't matter, sure, but we know there's going to be more analysis about the body language than the actual detail. And also, let's be honest, this is a side meeting off a meeting. This is not let's sit down in the White House for a day and a half and work stuff out. This is very much okay, where mates, fine, fair enough, But as part of that conversation is this push from the Trump administration for us to spend more
money on defense. What expectation of anything do you have out of this meeting or is it just politeness amongst friends?
Ah? Look, I think I hope the Prime Minister, for the sake of all Australians, strikes a reasonable rapport with the President. I'm not underestimating the difficulties of that, I need hardly spell them out. But in the sovereign interests of this country about which all three of us and all of our listeners care passionately, these are very dangerous times and I think the Prime Minister and his government have got themselves in the most dreadful bind on defense.
Everyone including their own elder statesman, are saying these are dangerous times.
You've got to do more.
Miles himself has acknowledged that there's aucust, submarines anecostas zero point seven percent of GDP and they're basically say no, we can fund the defense in a two percent envelope. So you take Orcus out point seven you've reduced defense expenditure in the short term on the things we need now down to about one point three percent. That's the
rough mass. I'll challenge anybody to put them up. The Prime Minister said recently, we've increased what's asked me talking about what are all these critics talking about.
Ten billion without telling the Australian people that they've re scoped eighty two billion out of short term capability against Orcus in the twenty thirties. Why do we expect our friends, let alone our possible opponent. It's to take us seriously when apparently we don't. And I would ask this question of the Prime Minister, and it's a really serious one from somebody who has once in politics, What do you think your legacy's going to be if something goes wrong?
We may not be involved, but say something breaks out in the North and we say, oh no. As you know, obviously he's information, we're not involved, We wash our hands, there's nothing to do with us.
And the Chinese just happened to say, oh, well, we'll just drop a missile or two on Williamtown. Maybe we'll drop one into Candra to show that we can do. We have not no defense, no drums, We've got no missile defense.
What are we talking about?
What sort of planet are we living on? And I just say again to the Prime Minister, why not listen to the genuinely respected last senior defense statesman that you had, Kim Beasley. And by the way, this nonsense one thing the Prime Minister has got right. It's a nonsense to say it's got to be three percent or three and a half or four or five or two ascertain as he says, what we need now?
What do we need now? And then work out how are you going to pay for it. It's obvious we need drones.
Yes, it's obvious.
We need missile defense, air towhear surface to air. It's obvious we need all of our few navy ships going while we're trying to mothball them. It's obvious we have a recruitment shortage and a retention problem. How about we level with the Australian people. We say these are the most dangerous time since the nineteen thirties.
But we're not walking the talk.
One hundred percent. We've got plenty more to get to it. We'll do it in a moment. We'll take a quick break. You'll be first cup off the rank. Next of course, Michael, where we will discuss, among other things, how net zero has become a purity test for both the left and the right. And in my view, once you said a purity test, nobody can pass it on. Thank you so
much for watching the Center for Independent Studies. It's where Michael Stutchbury is about to begin after his time at the Financial Review and John Anderson former Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson dot net dot au or find him on YouTube or podcasts. I love listening to each and everyone, you know, when sometimes you mightn't be across it, but you feel smarter by the end of it. That's when you hang out and have a listen to what John
has to say and the people he talks to. So obviously I'm a person of the center right, most people watching would be similarly of such and obviously that's where the man Cave is built. But I wanted to ask a tough question that might be uncomfortable for even me to here, and Michael, I'll start with you. Has identity politics made it virtually impossible for the right to win
an election in Australia. I say this because perfect example, right Chinese Australian voters right voted Coalition in ten thirteen, sixteen nineteen. There was the problems in and around in and around Wuhan and all the rest of it. A lot of the local media that helps inform part of that population washed back through Beijing. Surprise surprise, big change.
Right.
How many seats gone? How many seats not coming back? People who identify themselves? You know, certainly one thing that twenty eight or thirty seats that they lost between twenty two to twenty five the electoral role. Literally, those were places where women outnumbered men. In Dutton's seat alone, there was nine thousand more people under the age of fifty than over the age of fifty. Surprise, surprise, he didn't
win his seat. That's my way into the question, is it just has identity politics and our absolute embracing of it made it pretty tough for the right.
To win well, politics used to be about capital v. Labor for over one hundred years the left and right, a Labor party and a Liberal Party are representing a business and the professions and so forth. And now it's turned from capital v labor into cultural identity. And so it is a bit tribal. One tribe there, another tribe there. They sort of need each other.
In a way.
I think what the Liberal Party needs to do is they lost their way a bit in this and get back to what the great bulk of Australias want. And the great bog of Australians want a healthy economy. They want they want good jobs, well paying jobs. They want a budget that performs well on economy that's just performing well because they want to bring up their families and
they want these things. So the Liberal Party should be the party, for example, of lower taxes, and they went to the election somehow getting in a position where they it became the party of higher taxes. So I think you've got to say, well, we're the party of lower taxes, smaller government, getting the economy going. Now, if you take the Canadian situation, where of course you had a center right, a center left government, the Trudeau government in there, was
really going nowhere. Trudeau resigned, Mark Carney came in. Trump started a mind to make Canada the first state, and so it produced that whole anti which put the kept the center left party in the office. But amongst young
people still Pollier the Polier the opposition leader. They have been have been banging on for several years about housing and about housing costs and about how restrictions on the supply of housing were pushing up housing and making it unaffordable for young people, and amongst the youth vote like eighteen to like early thirties, he still won the youth
vote in Canada, even though overall Carni won sort of narrowly. Yeah, that's a good point, So I think, Yeah, so I think, you know, if you focus on, you know, what do really people want in their lives and how if you've got the confidence in your own position that yes, you know, a smaller government, lower taxes, a market economy is the best way to do that, this is good, then that sort of leads you to sort of the sort of policies you should be putting before the people.
John. What I like about this question is I want this to be like a leaf blower, just pushing all of the dirt out because maybe I've just read too much listened to too many people trying to say that, oh, this one's done forever and this is why. But same question. The embracing of identity politics doesn't make it difficult for the right to correct.
It makes it very much more difficult. You've got to remember it makes it difficult for the Labor Party as well. You've got to remember that if you count those who didn't vote at all, we now have a Prime Minister with a record number of seats in the House of Representatives, with less than one in three Australians having selected him and his government. You know, you look at the raw maths of it. A preferential voting has had a lot
to do with this. I think I'd make two comments because I'm on a Unity ticket with the very interesting things that you said, particularly about Canada.
So that's leadership.
I think Australian people crying out for leadership. I think they will respond very quickly when they realize that it is incredibly serious.
It is really serious.
I'm not a person that wants to talk Australia down, just the opposite. I want my kids, my grandkids have the opportunities of freedoms. You know, the prosperity that I enjoyed, That's not going to happen with the current policies. We have the fastest collapsing living standards in the OECD, the rich Man's Club. We've been in per capita negative growth for I don't know how long.
Productivity is slipping.
We are in grave danger and an age of big power rivalry, and we're not doing any about us. We talked about a moment ago if we don't have leadership shortly that clearly articulates what needs to be done. Housing is one of them here as well so as education, but running the economy, security, ending the intergenerational theft, which is.
Just reached immoral levels. What we're doing to our children.
You know, we can't live within our means, so we'll make our children born and unborn pay, loading them up with debt before they see the opportunity to have any say in it at all. I think the key is leadership, and I think Australians are crying out for effective leadership.
Run Run.
Unfortunately, it may take a further nasty jolt, and I'll make a prediction that they could well I'm not a prediction, but you can see the very real possibility of something nasty happening to our north, which could be more than a nasty child, and we need to be recognizing something else. The bond markets are getting jittery in Japan and in America. They forced Trump to back down.
In the end, they will have the say.
If somebody doesn't take control of the economic levers soon there will be a very nasty shock, and this time we won't be able to buy ourselves out of trouble on our children's bank. Crard, good stuff.
Thank you, lads. I wish we had another hour a last. We do not, but I look forward to a chatting in anytime you're around our one. Thank you boys, Thank you very much. Break back with more the table of knowledge of Sunday night, but we'll just sit around have a little adult conversation. More in a second. Australia's o Oscar Piastre is on his way to fingers crossed another great result in Formula one there in Canada this weekend.
The race will happen while you are asleep. He will find out the highlights tomorrow on Fox Sports News, or of course with Peter Stefanovigan first edition. He will start third on the grid, George Russell is on pole Verstappen the man in between.
It was a nice turnaround. You know, there's always the question do you want a medium or do you want to solft for Q three, and we went with a soft because we're having a lot of problems and we just wanted to keep things consistent. So I'm pretty happy with third, which is a bit different this year, but I'll definitely take it out.
Are you the type of person who knows your neighbors not just doc get a gregor like, do you actually know your neighbors? There might have been a time when you used to have street parties. Personally, not my bag, but still a lot of people used to know their neighbors. Well, it won't surprise you that there's more evidence that people are not knowing their neighbors the way that they used to.
In fact, interestingly, the top six reasons why Australians have judged their neighbors noise, keeping their joint clean, vehicles that are all over the shop, or pets. Amazingly, seventeen per cent of people apparently have an issue with the lifestyle choices or habits of their neighbors. But that's not the reason
I'm talking about this. There was a great piece that was written in the Courier marl an opinion thing that followed on from all of this, and it was based off the findings that were a story from real estate dot Com that I you that nearly three quarters of Australians feel that they don't know their neighbors anymore, many
avoiding saying even hello. One of the biggest discoveries from the report into this was seventy two percent of people nationwide field Australians are less interested in knowing their neighbors compared to twenty years ago. Meanwhile, has this a whopping sixty two percent of Ozzies have admitted that they lived next to someone for more than six months without ever meeting them. Among gen Z or gen Y wh to course of Millennials, that number is between seventy and seventy
one percent, respectively. The study also shows that a generation gap is there because while nearly nine in ten Aussies greet their neighbors regularly, only thirty percent of gen Z knowledge their neighbors when they're passing by, compared to seventy three percent of boomers. Baby boomers are also twice as likely as gen Z to know all of their neighbors
at thirty six of us eighteen percent. So if I need to give a little social lesson to anyone of a certain age, you don't need to know their name, you don't need to know anything about them. But when you see someone in the street or you walk past them in Bunnings, you say this.
Good eight good day, good goody, say good eyday, guys, and they.
Might say it back. And you don't have to be the best friends. You don't have to borrow milk and sugar. Let's just get a mate. How are you? My kids hate it when I do it, but I'll do it every day. So thanks for watching us tonight, More big Brain Conversation, same time next week, and we're back to what we do best, which is fire up and talk about all the issues in the world, big or small, Tomorrow night at nine o'clock East.
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