On the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Well, good evening. James Barrow here filling in for Paul Murray from the Man Cave. Coming up tonight, We've got an absolutely massive show. Well, there was an artist, it turns out, who was handpicked to represent Australia on the world stage. Just the only thing is some of his former works
include a depiction of a dead terrorist leader. Hey why not all under Tony Brooks nose of course, plus Boulder By the minute, Chinese warships have been spotted off the coast of our nation and there's been another close call between fighter jets and another ceasefire could be on the cards with talks, said Trump and Putin, we'll meet to discuss a deal to end the war in Ukraine. Anyway,
it is great to be with you here tonight. Only I wish that I had happier news to talk with you about the fallout from those two New South Wales health nurses who were having a bit of you know, cheeky internet banter suggesting, we hope jokingly that they would kill Israeli patience. News of this well, it spread nationwide, even internationally, and it also featured heavily in today's debates
in Parliament. But first, just to refresh everyone's memory, let's go back and have one more look at what nurses Ahmed Rashad Nadir and Sarah Abu Lebden said online, apparently while they were on shift, words that were so shocking that everyone was completely shocked. Let's say an Israeli.
God batak them out.
To them, you kill them.
So if an Israeli is in Australia and God forbid something happened to him and he comes to your hospital, would you kill him?
Okay, you have no idea how many Israeli A dog came to this hospital and.
A charming stuff. There you go. They would kill Israeli patients, send them to a Jahannam, which is apparently Islam's version of hell. You name it. Obviously horrific stuff even to joke about. Now the nurses have of course gone to ground, claimed it was all of being misunderstanding the usual stuff. But who's buying it not me? And the cops are, according to the headlines quote, negotiating with the pair over
them doing a full interview. Now they've been stood down by the authorities, saying that they will never work in the New South Wales Health system. Again good And in the latest development, just a few hours ago, the Australian Practitioner Regulation Agency has updated their register to reflect this. They have been struck off the rolls. And you know, as I talk about this, I can already hear a few of the keyboard worriors out there limbering up saying,
Ohmorrow tomorrow. Isn't this cancel culture? I thought you were against that. Don't you believe in free speech? Well, yeah, of course I do, which is why it is so important to understand just why this speech here was not the sort of thing that anyone should deem as protected like other sorts of offensive comments. I mean, first of all, this video took place. It was filmed and made in the workplace, presumably when the pair should have been looking
after patients Israeli or otherwise. Though let's be frank, I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many Sabras hanging out in Bankstown these days. Now, the pair were also representing their employer, the taxpayer, New South Wales Health via their uniforms, and what they said, well, again, that wasn't a mere opinion. It could be constituted as a threat that, if taken seriously, would have meant they were
happy and willing to put lives at risk. Now, you know how there are signs at the airport that say, don't make jokes about bombs at security or you are going to have a pretty awful rest of the day. Well, it's the same principle here. This is a hospital where lives and not just feelings are at stake, and where the entire system relies on the fundamental foundational understanding that everyone who walks through or is wheeled in through those doors is going to get the same first class treatment
as anybody else. No wonder. Today there was a rally of nurses and midwives outside New South Wales Parliament House, with many of the participants in tears, yes, tears, understandably over the thought that their profession they're calling their vocation had been called into question, its integrity called into questions. And they carried signs that said things like no hate in healthcare to reassure the public that their profession hasn't
been infiltrated by jihadists and anti semits. Now, these are hospitals, after all, not university humanities faculties. So you know, I think we're safe. There are those still at least some standards there. But look, there is also in a sense a sense which there is perhaps a bit of good I think that might come out of this whole discussion. Yes,
that's right now. I don't say this with any particular joy, but the shock brazenness of this video has I think lifted a lot of the taboos around talking about multiculturalism and how Australia, which is yes, a nation of migrants, I'm one a nation of settlers and of Aboriginals who were here before anybody else, has gone off the rails.
Now we saw another example of that today when Sky News went out to Bankstown, where the hospital in question is located in Sydney's western suburbs, and well they spoke to this man.
Have a look, they have a free right to say whatever they want.
You know, is it wrong to say that?
Yes, in any way possible.
You stand with the fact that someone has threatened to kill and not treat a Jewish patient.
And what about all the kids that Jews have killed, Israel's killing kids in Palestini and people here obviously all around the world.
Look what they did and live.
On them as well.
Catch you just feel the vibrancy. I'm enriched already. Now our reporter is, to be fair, found plenty of people out there who disagreed with those sentiments. But this is, you'd have to say, an attitude that is all too prevalent. And I'll tell you something else. My own sources in the medical profession have told me that the pair we've been talking about are not an outlier at least an attitude, if not an actual action in some parts of the Sydney and New South Wales health system. What a mess
we have gotten ourselves into. But here's the thing. People like me and probably a lot of you out there have been warning about the failings of multiculturalism for years now, and it is worthwhile to break down just how this
has all gone so wrong. And number one, I think it starts with a series of small l liberal delusions, delusions like all cultures are equal, and not only that they are compatible, and that there is some magical process, a transubstantiation, if you will, that turns people from very different cultures with very alien attitudes about religion and children and family and work and everything else into people who
share our nations common values and beliefs. Thus, for example, some people who come from a place that treat women as property suddenly land in Australia, get a house in the Burbs, and magically accept all of a sudden that women should be able to work and date and marry who they wish, even if that person is a member
of a different religion or no religion at all. And likewise, some people who think Jews are evil and demonic will at some point on the way to Australia suddenly being seen the light and understand that Jews are in fact valued members of the Australian communit who have been contributing to Australian society at the highest levels virtually since our
modern nation was founded. So as a result of this, well, these delusions have led us to make all sorts of poor policy choices and led to this situation now where we have ethnicity based identity politics. These delusions, this magical thinking about multiculturalism, of course, began under Guff Whitlam, though multiculturalism,
it should be said, wasn't part of his original plan. Instead, official multiculturalism was foisted on the nation by activists and Whitlam's Immigration minister Al Graspy, which has meant that since the seventies, Australian's official policy has been to encourage migrants not so much to become Australians as instead to hold on to their identity that they've brought over from the Old Country with whatever attitudes it happened to go with it.
How's that working out for us now? Back then, the government did things like create the SBS network, Sex and Bloody Soccer as it was known in the days, to keep migrants connected to their homelands, their home countries. In the process. Of course, this also kept them from diving head first into the project of becoming Australians, as occurred with previous generations, particularly those who came over here after World War II. Now today, of course, they don't need SBS.
They just need the Internet and they can remain living mentally in the Old Country even if physically they live here. Former Prime Minister John Howard recently had to sit down with his former deputy John Anderson and talked about how that earlier generation of migrants, the post World War II migrants pre SBS, pre guff Whitland, pre al Gaspi, all of that well, how they approached migration, and he told this story.
Time and time again as I moved around the country as Prime Minister. I can remember I'd go to a country here and go to me in ban dance and Lady, I came from Croatia and this is the greatest country in the world, and I came here because I liked what you were. She didn't come to Australia to make us like she was. She wanted to become like we were.
But as we know, things changed after that generation mister Howard was referring to, particularly when it came to importing people from the Middle East from a very alien culture, with all the tribal and religious grievances that can go along with that. Now Labor's Paul Keating, for example, lobby to stop the controversial shak kalally from being deported to play to ethnic votes that resulted from this cultural tribalism that we developed the Liberals, although I use that word loosely.
Malcolm Fraser well he was warned by Immigration Department officials that his government was accepting too many Lebanese Muslim refugees from the Lebanese Civil War without quote the required qualities. According to the Department, for successful integration, and most recently we have seen Labor under Anthony Albanizi presiding over the worst outbreak of hatred an anti semitism in Australian history. Truly,
that began just after the October seventh atrocities. I mean, who could forget this moment from Western Sydney as news of Hamas's rapes and massacres ricochet around the world.
I'm smighty, I'm smiling and unhappy.
I'm the night.
It's a die of courage fall.
It seems like we're gating a lot more than vibrant Cuisines with our multiculturalism. Hey but remember, as Labor always says, it's always anti Semitism and Islamophobia. That's the problem which brings us to the other part of the delusions behind our multicultural policy, and that is the failure to actively turn new migrants from anywhere into Australians. And that has been that failure to do so has been and remains
a grave error. You see, since whatever faery dust they supposedly sprinkle on people when they land in Australia to stay, I mean, I remember what I got it, I called for weeks, Well, where's that that stuff doesn't work. Effort needs to be made by Australia, by the Australian government and the Australian people to help knit people into our collective Australian family. Yet the Albanese government has failed at every turn to do so. To be fair, previous governments
have as well. It's mouth the right words about hate having no place during the current crisis, but because it is so wedded to votes and heavily Muslim outer suburban Sydney seats and in Sydney and Melbourne, that it plays into these old country obsessions. Therefore you have Penny Wongs
continued railing against Israel at the UN and elsewhere. But more than that, all Australians have been let down by governments again of both stripes, to really argue for what is necessary, not a multi cultural Australia, but a multi racial, multi ethnic, multi confessional Australia where we may come from wherever and have whatever skin color, and have whatever religious beliefs, but our first loyalty is to Australia and a firmly
articulated set of values. What, after all, our new migrants to think when they see the government undermining the very legitimacy of the modern nation that they came to when they see things like the Voice referendum and the school curriculum that runs down our history at every turn, where even the kids are told, no, this isn't Australia, this is stolen land and if you come here, well you're
in on the thievery. To this end, perhaps I reckon Peter Dutton ought to pledge, if elected, to eliminate the multiculturalism portfolio from his government should he win power, and instead replace it with something else not maybe a Minister for Social cohesion. I think that's a willy phrase. It all too often is used to tell people to shut up and not talk about the problem. But maybe a Minister for integration making sure the entire Australian family, whenever
you arrived here, is knitted together as one. Because focusing on multiculturalism and nostrums like diversity is our strength. Well by doing so, we have for decades been walking into a trap, a trap that is being sprung on us. Now, diversity for its own sake is actually, let's be clear about it, a ticket to a low trust society, one where social cohesion drops. Just look at the latest scandal report and where individual participation in the community falls as
everyone retreats to be with their own kind. Now, that's not the Australia I came here for, and I'm not and I am sure it is not the Australia you want to live in. So how about we do something about it? People altogether? Well, all right, there's so much talking about tonight and I'm thrilled to be able to
get straight into it with my panel. Both here in the man came Sky News contributor Joe Hildebrandt, also read his stuff in the Daily Telegraph, the country all over the country, all over the country and a Donni Media's Lisa Godthard. Now, both of you, thank you so much for joining me tonight. We have got to talk. I'm sorry about this. The nurses, the New South Wales police are getting involved and gathering evidence of this latest display of vitriol by these two now former nurses. Now they
are lawyering up apparently after the video surfaced online. They are bragging about where they are seen, bragging about how they would rather kill than tree. It is really pacious and apparently the full unedited video is going to wind up in the hands of detectives. But Joe, I'll start with you here. This feels to me like this is what happens when we let ethnic sectarianism build in the community and we don't, you know, focus on what brings us together.
I think we're actually looking at a very specific example of one particular ethnic sectarianism and extrapolating that to all the multiculturalism. And I think that actually that's not fair on the rest of Australia. I think the vast majority of migrants have been very, very capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. They love Australia. They
love Australia. Day they voted against the Voice overwhelming. She should be happy about it was all the white ones who have been here forever and rich in the city leaky sub actually voted for the Voice. So these guys really do love Australia and they and they do want to be here. There is a very particular group of people,
and it's not just Muslims or Islamists. It is also know noodle armed snot nosed upper middle class socialists who adorn our universities and holds it in there, who have legitimized the hatred of Israel and therefore the hatred of Israelis. And as you can see from the video where quite frankly,
the words are used interchangeably. For example, when they're used on the video and what the man in the street says, he supports Israelis and Jews are simply used interchangeably as people who are worthy of being killed because of what the Israeli government is doing on the other side of the world. So the problem is that you have one set of people, and again it's not all. The head of the Lebanese Muslims Association, Jamal Reefi, former Australian Australian
of the Year, absolute superstar. He is clamped down on this extremists just like you did when Isis was rising up. He has no truck with it whatsoever. But you do have, i think sections of the community which have been told that all Israelis are murderous, genocidal, barbarous, you know, non humans who need to be slaughtered in retaliation for the murder of children. They've been told that by their communities,
They've been told that by their families. That has been ratified, if you like, and given political justification by the upper middle class activist Left, the Greens and people like that, and so they actually see within this bubble I think you called it a silo, whatever it was, this is a completely unremarkable view. And so what happens when these two kids, young people are on a late shift with
not enough to do at Bankstown Hospital. They say this stuff as though it's completely fine, even as a joke, and they say this as though, of course it's okay to kill Israelis, even though there are no Israelis in banks Down because guess what they're in Israel.
But of course what they.
Actually what it's code for is Jews, of who they wouldn't be too many in banks Down either, and they think it's okay. So the thing that gets me is that I think, even if they think this in their deepest thoughts, that they think it would be perfectly okay to say in a video interview on social media in their New South Wales health scrubs, because this is a view that has been so ratified to them and been given so a figure ief of legitimacy by the activist
left as well as by their communities. And you have basically ended up justifying anti Semitism, justifying murder in the name of activism.
Well, you know you talked about that, actors, But Lisa, people have been warning for years and years and years, long before our cover safe with and long before the albanize A government came to power that this equation of Zionism with war crimes and all sorts of things and the BDS movement and all of these other sort of boycott Israel. Israel's a genocidal state that has been percolating
on the left for an awful long time. And it feels to me like the government, you know, tacitly encouraged us for a while and didn't you know, understand that they were playing with real fire with this, and you know, hence we see this, Hence we see a million others horrible things almost every morning, it seems like sometimes when you wake up a look at the paper.
So what jarred with me with this is you can't tell me that in that hospital that these opinions weren't being said, and that other people in that hospital weren't aware of what their thoughts were, and the fact that you've got them in those roles. And even a whistleblower who did come forward, she was the one that was disciplined.
That's the problem. And when you come back to the grassroots of this, that's where you've got an issue that people know this is happening, and you've got people turning a blind eye, so it's allowed to continue. So that silo or that bubble exists, that's.
Right, and the views are legitimized. And because of course, if you accuse someone of being genocide and perpetrating genocide, well of course that makes them a rule target. And so again I think there are sections of the Muslim community, but the minority by no means of uss majority, but also sections of the activist left who both basically have blood on their hands or.
And like, let's just take it beyond that though. You know, we are in a position right now where we have got a huge migration right into this country. Neither side seems to be able to really talk about it or do anything about it, you know, and we've got a large proportion of people who've been born overseas. They are often living, you know, very in communities where they are all coming from the same country, in different suburbs and
so on. Whatever that is, you know, perfectly fine, wonderful people, but are we doing enough Joe to teach these people or bring them into or make them feel like they are part of you know, Team Australia, as we say, and not just coming in and say, well, you know, we're here in Australia because there's a economic opportunity and that's it.
Now. I think people are voting for their fate and the reason they come here is because they say, what we have in Australia and they want a part of it.
And again, if you look at pretty much every single section of the community, they have all integrated incredibly well while at the same time bringing great sort of cultural riches, be it food, you know, Chinese New Year, which goes on forever, you know, whatever it may be, None of that impacts anyone else's life and it adds, you know, it adds depth and fun and color to Australian life. So the first big non European intake we had in Australia was largely the boat people that came in from Vietnam,
people fleeing the communist insurgents from the north. So these were you know, these were shopkeepers, These were small business people who had been run out of town by the communists, and we took in thousands.
Upon them the phenomenal comunity.
Clearly, it's not multiculturalism that's failing. It is these particular attitudes, and it is as my and I think they are particularly toxic because not only are they held by you know, a particular community, who is who's often been raised on propaganda, who has people in Ghaza, people in Pasdane who have been indoctrinated by Hamas or Fatah or whatever, who are telling people on the other side it's horrible what they're doing. And yes, Israel has been killing a lot of them.
Does that make it okay to kill is random Israelis or random jew instead of criticizing the Israeli government? Of course not. But these people have been indoctrinated. And then when they look outside their own communities for whether or not this is true or not, they have it again. They have it ratified, they have it legitimized by the extreme activist left from places like that.
And that is they've all gone through university. Both of these nurses had gone through universities, right, yes, exactly, exactly, So then you've got a big problem alone.
Well yeah, exactly. Hey, I want to go on that, because we had so much more news to come here. We've also had news here in the last few hours. The ADF has taken the rare step of raising the alarm about three Chinese vessels off the Australian coast. There's also been Chinese warships spotted operating. But they also revealed that there's been yet another close call with between an Australian plane and a Chinese plane. Flares. You know, all
of this is very dangerous stuff. Even if they were out in international waters, these sorts of encounters, you know, there is the possibility of a real serious accident and potentially worse here, Joe, what do you make of this? And is Australia My big concern about Australia is that
we don't take our defense seriously enough. We simply, you know, we buy a lot of shiny things, one of each, big shiny things, but we don't really have a culture that's in a real sort of war fighting pasture when we're in a position where we may need to actually do that sort of.
Long got one little boat, one little submarine sort of chugging around the coast down. Yeah, yeah, Now, I think the problem has been it's been not necessarily a lack of will, but a lack of sort of long term decision making. So we're constantly changing our minds about what the defense capability we need is. It changes with every government, it even changes within government. So we had Tony Abbott
saying we're going to get Japanese submarines. Then we had mouth and term I'll saying no, we're going to get French submarines. And we had Scott Morris and saying no, we're going to go with orcast, which I think is the right thing to do. But God, it's taken a long time to get there, and meantime we've got this massive lag where we're not going to get the first
things for decades. So our only military strength and security actually lies with our agreement with the US, and that is why we need to make sure we are lockstep with the US.
Well, Liza, you know, because you know you mentioned all these conflicts, but it seems like right now in the world, if you look at the world, there's a great lesson in how modern warfare is being fought. It's being fought in the Red Sea with the WHU this, it's being fought in Ukraine and the use of drones and technology.
There are we preparing basically to fight the last war two wars ago or have we got some sense of, you know, where we actually need to be in terms of what our fighting force looks like to respond to the way how war is going to be fought in the future.
You talk about the capacity that we have in terms of the weapons that we have and the artillery that we have. What about the boots on the ground. They can't actually recruit enough people into the military alone to actually been sure we've got the people there to fight
for us when we need it. So you've got this threat coming in from You've got what's happening in the world as far as different conflicts underway, and yet here we are focused on making sure that the military has enough you know DEI in it, and not enough men and women on the ground.
To actually do the fighting on the ground.
The People's Liberation armyology and the money.
Yeah, boots on the ground, not high heels on the ground. Absolutely. Now, the Prime Minister, we got to we want here get so much time the Prime Minister has we want to talk about this issue with the tariffs and Anthony Albinizi Joel want to ask you about this especially. We've spoken about this before, thought that the phone call might work to get him the extension exemption from the steel and aluminium tariffs, but we now know that is not the case.
The coalition has called on Alban Easy to go over to Washington to deal with Trump face to face. Now, aside from the irony of telling Airbus Albow to get on a plane, because he's pretty happy to do that, let's be honest about that. He likes that sort of thing. Do you think that will work or you know, could there be something else in the offering that we could offer the Americans?
Well, I think someone suggested that of julianman grant to Elon Musk, and maybe that might square the I think failing in any form of human sacrifice. I think the I think it is still under consideration. Trump actually overegged what was agreed to by the two men. They both agreed to say it was under consideration. Trump said it was under great consideration. He said Albow was a very
fine man. That obviously bodes extremely well. They don't come into effect for another month, and so there is a long time before we can actually say that there has been no progress or that they haven't been that Australia hasn't carved out an exemption if I mean, the Prime minist isn't going to go and just sort of set up a ten t embacy outside the White House. See if Trump lets him in, you have to arrange a meeting.
Even that phone call was arranged a week ago, so it was actually arranged before Trump made the tariff announcement, and it would have been the The arrangements to set the date and the time for the phone call would have been implied probably ever since Trump was elected and let alone even inaugurated. So they think fat time to set up.
I think, gone fact, sure, sure, sure, yeah that's but you've got right, yeah, we've got heaven right. I mean, what could go what could go wrong with that? But Lisa, you know, one of the things is if you look at the Trump overall strategy, it's about to reshore manufacturing into the United States. And this is where the world is going now. Everybody's going to have to start making more of their own stuff. That's just simply the way things go as globalism breaks up. We though have about
five percent of our economy now too its manufacturing. It's one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the OE c D. I think it's almost in inverse proportion to our alcohol taxes. Have we really left ourselves exposed here by running down our industry and running up our energy prices.
Running energy process of what we're doing is not providing so manufacturing. You speak of manufacturing forty two percent, I think it is of manufacturing relies on gas, right, so we don't have the gas supplies that are being brought out of the ground in this country to meet that demand. And what you've got with Trump is saying, well, we need to make America competitive again. The Business Council Australia has just come out and said that's exactly what we
need Australia to do. So that's where the pressure is going to come heading into this federal election, because you've got the leaders in this country in the business world finally standing up and saying, look, we need you to make it the regulatory restrictions around this lifted. We need better tax breaks, we need to make it easier in this country to run a business and actually contribute to the economy so we don't see everything going off shore.
Here here the red tape in this country. Whenever I talk to people in business, and whether it's you know, big business or the panel beater down the road, you know, it just says everything is simply too hard. And whenever I go to America, you know, it just feels like people are so excited about the prospect of arning businesses, making money, getting in on it. And the optimism and the energy in America right now under Donald Trump. Having been there just after the election and again in December
is just off the charts. But staying on America, I love this story because we have had all of the talk about declassification and finding out what's in all of those files, and for people like me who love to go down rabbit holes, not that I'm a conspiracy theorist, but who love to go down rabbit holes on these things.
There is now a Congressional task Force being headed up by Florida Representative Anna Paulina Luna, and it is tasked with spilling the tea on the assassinations of figures like mart Luther King, Robert F. Kennedy had the Biggie JFK. And here's the fascinating thing here, Representative Luna seems to think there could have been somebody there on that grass sat a well, have look at this.
The initial hearing that was actually held here in Congress was actually faulty in the single balle theory.
I believe that there were two shooters.
Boo, this is h this is huge. God, we've got something learned congresswoman saying there was a second shooter.
That's it.
Joe, what is Joe? What do you think though, is going to come out of this? If anything? And why are if these things are there's nothing to see here? Why has the government been so secret squirrel about it?
But this is the thing the government is. The government is secret squirrel about these things that thinks it needs to protect national security and all this sort of stuff. And governments are instinctively secretive because that makes everyone think the government has something to hide. Usually what the government has to hide is its own incompetence. The reason JFK died, the reason he was shot, is because there was a loser, madman who kept trying to work for communists, trying to
work for the CIA. Nobody wanted him because he was that dopey. Even his partner didn't want him. I think he drank any better. So he gets to he's working in a book deposit, all his mates go out to lunch. He's left the line. He knows exactly where JFK is going to be in an open air limousine, in open air convertible right with no protection whatsoever. And he knows exactly where he's going to be because they printed it in the paper before.
Say hey, Dallas, everyone come out.
You wanted to get a shot at the I mean, I look at the.
Presence, and so Lisa, second shooter, what do you reckon? No?
What I love about this? FBI found fourteen thousand pages of unearthed documents since that executive order has come out from Trump. So you can't tell me that there is a lot of interesting information in those fourteen thousand pages.
There will be some inchiesting information. My mail or my call is that something funny happened in Mexico City with Oswald and you know it wasn't a conspiracy, but he might have been the original. Oh he was on our radar guy, which is what they always seemed to say after these things. Anyway, thank you so much, Lisa Godar. Now don't go anywhere, because I got another second All Star panel, so many all stars. I don't know what
to do with myself. After the break though, we're gonna have a sign of the timespeacause Creative Australia has picked an artist to represent us at the Venice Bienale. And guess who one of his works depicts. Here's a hint, it's a former now exploded leader of Hezbollah. More on this absolute madness after the break All right, James Moorrow here sitting in for Pol in the man Cave Live and we've got tons more fun and tons more news
to get through tonight. I want to bring in my next panel Hobart City Councilor Louise Elliott and from the Daily Telegraph, my very good friend national Political Affairs correspondent and Geira Barrawanje Louise, thank you so much here, and I want to start off with this story here which well i'd say it made by blood boil, but in
fact it just didn't surprise me at all. Turns out there's an artist named Khaled Sabsabi and he was selected to represent Australia at a global art exhibit exhibit known as the Venice Bienali. And if you've ever been to Venice for the BIONALI well, h's a lot of this sort of thing. But get this. One of this fellow's prominent pieces of previous work depicts the leader of the terrorist organization, Hezbolov, looking like some sort of saint or divine spirit. Almost looks like an icon to me. And
guess who finds himself at the center of all of it. Well, Arts Minister Tony Burke's prize prize, who was apparently who knew shocked to Louise about all of the to learn about all of this stuff, Angira, let's start with you here. I mean, Tony Burke is the Arts Minister. Shouldn't he have been a little bit better briefed about who the restaurant community was sending to represent at this very important global art extravaganza in Venice.
Look, I think his comment or response that he didn't know about it could have been acceptable if Creative Australia was not something that had been raced with him before. And I say this as someone who's written about this agency before. There have been concerns about funding given by Creative Australia to artists who have, at times, either through their art or on social media or on other public platforms, written statements that are anti Semitic or just controversial more
generally at times anti Australian. And this is something I have raced with his office, and you know, he's directed it to Creative Australia and they've said, look, we don't look at the political views of our artists. We give them funding based on their art. So I don't think it's fair for Tony Birk to say I had no idea about this, because this agency should be on his radar. It's something that's been raised with his office before, something that's been written about in the media before.
Yeah, I mean, Louise, I don't really buy it either. The idea that you know, he hasn't been probably briefed about it, that Creative Australia had no idea that this could be contentious. Well, you know, either he knew but claimed not to know or whatever, or he was simply poorly advised. His advisors didn't know. Creative Australia didn't think to say anything. Maybe they kept it from him. I
don't know. I mean, look, I guess we should be happy that at least, you know, the art is of a recognizable, you know, figure and not just squiggles, you know, sounding a complete philistine here. But at the same time, Louise, none of this sort of seems good enough, given particularly just how sensitive this government really ought to be about any perceptions of giving you know, aid and comfort to this particular point of view.
It could also be that everyone in the chain of communication knew about it and not one single person had the backbone to say anything, because, let's be honest, there is a sense of immunity around some topics, some people, some groups, some religions. You're not allowed to say anything remotely critical. And yes, it is really confronting seeing an artwork of the leader of a terrorist organization, especially pictured in some sort of you know, enlightened sort of state.
I mean, of course, art is also meant to be challenging. But I actually do think that there could be some merit to my suggestion that people knew and no one said anything.
Yeah, no, I think I'm with you on that one. There. I want to want to another interesting story about Canberra and electoral reforums and donations reform. Now there's also sounded a little bit inside baseball to people, but it is important because they have moved to put caps on donations to political parties and at fifty thousand dollars and require public disclosure of donations of more than five thousand dollars.
Now you'd think that caps would be a good thing, and you think the disclosure would be a good thing, but gosh, there was a bit of anger in the holes of parliament.
Have a look, now, why don't you talk this frown people?
What is going to happen.
The big money that will be in politics is the public money, because.
Now the public is paying for the money that you that you want to still spend during elections, and the transparency anticipat in elections will be Union members.
That that is completely untrue. Bit of action there, and Gira explain this to us and why people are so annoyed about what I think a lot of people might just on the face of things seem like sensible changes.
I would never be here today had it not been for a billion billionaire and his kindness to get me where I am.
And there was a Jackie Lambi there there. But Gira talk us through this.
Yeah, you're completely right. It it seems like a sensible change on the face of it. But the issue is that the Independence are saying this is essentially a way for the bigger parties to have an upper hand. Now, these changes won't impact the upcoming election, which is due in May this year, but it will have an impact
for future elections. And what they're saying is this is essentially Anthony Albanezi and Peter Upton safeguarding major parties and their future so that people can't just keep voting and supporting smaller parties. We did see a third of people voted for an independent or minor party at the last election, so I think they've realized, you know, the independent movements
is not something that's just a one off. We probably will see it more in future elections, and they want to make sure that they're not getting as much funding as they were able to previously.
Yeah, Louise, what's your take on this? Is this, you know, a way to protect the system or is this actually an anti democratic move against you know, as a Gerra says independence, although you know, as we've also seen an awful lot of these independence and heals. Well, I think that disclosure about the donations that's about showing how some of these aren't as independent as you'd think.
Yes, the tears or like the billionaire babies, they're certainly not impressed with this change at all. We all know why the current situation isn't ideal in my opinion, and I also don't think that the reforms that have just passed the Senate are ideal either. I think that we do need to absolutely get more everyday people into politics, less career politicians, less people who are mates with billionaires. I mean, at least Jackie Lamby was honest about it.
To her credit, I do think that the two major parties undoubtedly have and will retain massive advantages. They have the branding, and they have often the huge benefit of incumbency. So I don't think today's laws or the future laws are ideal, but I do think it is It's good to see the billionaire funded tials a bit nervous, and I do hope that whatever it is, that we do see more everyday people inspired to be and enabled to be able to stand up for and represent our country.
Thank you so much for that, Louis. Great, great take on that there. But let's take a break ourselves here, because we've got to talk about Russia Ukraine. There's another ceasefire on the cards. Trump and Putin to meet face to face for talks about a possible deal between the two nations. We're going to break it down and whether or not Ukraine's gonna wind up having to give up
any territory after the break. James Barrow here sitting in for Paul Murray in the man Cave on Poulburray Live on a Thursday night where they say Thursdays are the new Friday. So let's have some fun here. Let's go back to our panel here and Gira barrat WAG and Louise Elliott from Hobart and Gira, I want to talk to you again about another great piece of reporting you've done in the Daily Telegraph where we both have the
honor of working together. Fantom of Payment. It turns out, according to your report, will take the guest of honor spot at a fundraising event for AH Muslim Votes Matters now. Attendees have been assured that it's not only a night of fun and trivia, but also an opportunity to support Muslim Votes Matter and empower the community. Aghiro, what do you make of this headline act here?
I mean it's interesting to see the senator pop up here after she initially said that she didn't have any immediate plans of working with Muslim Votes Matter when she left Labor back in July last year. She has also launched her own party, Australia's Voice, which she says is not just here to represent a certain demographic. She wants to represent all Australians who've been left behind. But she
hasn't announced any candidates yet. She hasn't announced too many major policies, so to see her pop up for this other grassroots movement has been interesting because I think she's at risk of pigeonholing herself as basically a candidate for Muslim Wotes Matter as opposed to an independent senator with her own party.
Yeah. I think that's a really good point there, and she has taken some pretty interesting stances over the past number of months too. But we've got to also move on and cover this whole question of Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, and I'd love to get both of you guys take on this. They're going to have a meeting, apparently in Saudi Arabia to try to come to some
end to the fighting between Russia and Ukraine. Russia, of course, invaded Ukraine a couple of years ago, and the fighting has just been a Charnal House for both nations ever since, but critics Louise have said that Trump has already given away the game by saying that Ukraine will have to give up some territory. What do you think is it better here, Louise, to give up a bit of territory and end the fighting or does this wind up being a Neville Chamberlain appeasement thing all over again.
Well, first of all, this is an immense program compared to the non existent action we had under the Biden administration. So I'm really relieved to actually see some movement. Some discussions had myself and millions and millions of other people would be really sad. And if it came to the fact that Ukraine actually did lose territory, no one wants that to happen. Well, no one in Australia, that's for sure.
But I do think that this is progress. It's great to see Donald Trump talking to both of the leaders and having constructive conversations, And like I said, I hope that Ukraine can absolutely retain We get back it's any land that it has lost, and most of all, everyone wants to see an then to the loss of innocent lives and the devastation and heartbreak that is left on the families involved.
Yeah, Giral, what's the mood in Canberra about all of this? These developments here? I mean, obviously the Albanizer government has been at least verbally very supportive of Ukraine, although some people have said that their support has gone far enough in a material sense. Have you heard any chatter about this and more generally, how is the government coping with the change of change show in Washington.
Look, it's been interesting because with Donald Trump, there's been new developments every day, something for the government to be asked about, something for them to comment on. Now, Anthony Albanize, he has repeatedly said that he doesn't want to provide a running commentary on Donald Trump's second presidency. But with some of these really big issues involving our allies, involving countries that we've supported, it is ultimately going to mean that we're going to have to start to weigh in.
I did have someone mentioned to me today that it's been interesting that the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong has been quite restrained in weighing into some of these international affairs. She hasn't done a lot of interviews. It's really only what's been coming up in question Time, and in some ways it's probably understandable. I mean, things are changing very rapidly, but I think the mood here is to try and just wait out some of these updates from Donald Trumpet
before Australia has to weigh in. I did also spot the Ukraine's ambassador to Australia here in Parliament House today, so I'm sure there are some conversations taking place behind post doors as well, but I think we might have to wait a little bit before we get any more updates from the government.
Yeah, I think you're right here very quickly. I just want to cover this off here because tomorrow's Valentine's Day, but it's no longer apparently Valentine's Day, because I got changed to Gallentine's Day with ladies celebrating their friendships. But now apparently it's become Palantine's Day, a rebranding just aimed at making sure no one feels excluded. Louise, have we gone too far making every single thing totally inclusive? Is Valentine's Day just too offensive to the Singletons?
We went too far five years ago. The line is well and truly been crossed. Let's get back to reality, all.
Right, thank you, thanks so much, Louise and Gerre. We're gonna have to leave it there. I hope everybody out there has a great Valentine's Day. Gallentine's Day, Valentine's Day. You watch me tomorrow night on the US Report. And Palmray is back on Sunday.