From the sky in Center. This is Paul Murray Live. Thanks so much for watching. A further extension to what we've been talking about all night, first with Andrew through Sharion, now myself about this flight which has crashed just after takeoff after leaving a city in India on its way towards Gatwick Airport in the United Kingdom. Now we are going to show you what he is going to be confronting footage, but this is the context of what took place just after the India flight took to the skies.
Its ultimate height was eight hundred and twenty five feet or two hundred and fifty meters. The pilot, who had apparently ten thousand hours of flying experience, did make a may day call, and as you have heard now the best part of two hundred and forty two people, as we understand, have passed away have died. One hundred and sixty nine are of Indian descent, fifty three from the United Kingdom, and we understand eleven children were on board. Ian Woods is a reporter who's joining us now at
Live from London. Because of course both sides of this flight is where the tragedy is going to be felt. Aan, what's the lightest that you are hearing from your side of the travel.
Well, of course, absolutely tragic news, Paul. We're still waiting for information on casualties, reports of bodies having been recovered. We don't know yet if there are any survivors. We know that there were two hundred and forty two people on board this plane. One hundred and sixty nine of them were Indian nationals, fifty three were Britain's, seven Portuguese
and one Canadian. Now, as you saw in those pictures a short time ago, people in the aviation business, former pilots, are already analyzing that very very brief piece of footage and coming up with what they think are possible and stairs I stress possible, because clearly the flight box data has to be recovered. They've got to do an investigation. But just looking at those pictures, the flight took off around about sort of three and a half hours ago. It was supposed to be a nine hour flight, but
just a minute later it crashed. Now, when you see the pictures of the plane taking off half a minute into its flight, at this point the undercarriage should be retracted within ten to fifteen seconds of the plane leaving the ground, the flaps should be deployed on the wings to be able to give it lift to enable it to get into the sky. Those pictures show that the undercarriage the wheels were down as if it was coming in for a landing, and there's no evidence of the
flaps having been deployed to give it that lift. So aviation experts are immediately asking questions about is that the cause of it. Was it a hydraulics issue which meant that the undercarriage could not come up. Was there an issue with deploying these flaps, Was it a mistake by the crew. All of these things are all in the realms of possibility at the moment, but that would appear to explain why the plane crashed having reached the height
of just around two hundred and fifty meters. Now, when a plane takes off so soon after lift off, it's obviously full of aviation flu around one hundred and forty tons. That's why you see the huge ball of flames when it came down. The question is did the wings detach from the main body of the aircraft when it came down. That is why you may get survivability if the wings were still attached to the body of the plane. That makes it much more dangerous obviously for the people on board.
And even though we have seen pictures of people been taken to hospitals on stretchers, we don't know whether there was are passengers on the plane or whether there are people on the ground. It came down in a residential area at a doctor's hostel, and clearly there are been casualties on the ground there as well.
This is the first time that a Boeing seven eight seven Dreamliner has crashed. Again. The information that I was able to go in before coming on here was about the experience of the pilot supposedly some ten thousand hours. Are you hearing any more either from the company of Boeing obviously again the earliest of hours of what will be many many months of investigation here.
Yeah, I mean Boyne are saying nothing at the moment, obviously looking into the causes before they speak. But they have got a reputation to because the Boeing seven eight to seven Dreamliner, which was introduced fourteen years ago, has never had a crash. It has flown millions of passengers, it has flown a billion passengers and has flown sort of millions of flights during those fourteen years and it's
never had an issue. So clearly this is something which is catastrophic, not just for those involved in the crash, catastrophic for the reputation of the company and of course Air India, but Air India are one of dozens of airlines who use the Boeing seven eight seven and its three different forms. There's almost twelve hundred in operation right
around the world. Clearly questions will have to be asked about those airliners, whether any further safety checks need to be made as a result of what investigators will come up with as a result of looking into this crash.
Of course Gatwick Airport on the edge of London, the mainland being Haythrow But inevitably there would have been people that have been waiting for people to come off that plane. Obviously in the hours since May will be heading to the airport. What reports are you getting from the paeople that are anxiously trying to find out information about what has happened.
Well, it's just over midday here in London. The flight wasn't due to land at London gap week until five thirty in the late afternoon, so unlikely there would have been people waiting to pick up passengers at that point. But clearly if you have been listening to the radio, watching television, seeing what's been happening on social media, and you have got somebody on board that plane, you will
be extremely concerned. Now, what the authorities will always say in this case is stay away from the airport because it will just add to the chaos and confusion. There will be emergency numbers which will be issued to try to get people to give to get information about loved ones, but clearly there is no point going to the airport as it stands at the moment. Now we've just had a statement from Prime Minister of Indian orndrum Modi. He says that the tragedy and ac Medabad has stunned and
saddened us. It's heartbreaking beyond words. In this hour, my thoughts are with everyone affected by it. We're all by bucking and Palace that King Charles has been keptain formed and the British Prime Minister A Kiir Steimer has also expressed his horror at the pictures that he's been seen on television this morning.
Yeah, thank you so much. Allan no doubt we'll talk to you a little bit later in the night and obviously on scott News UK you can see it's full coverage. Thank you Allan do appreciate it. Torrible news to begin our program here with again two hundred and forty two people that look like they have died in this plane crash which is coming from India on its way to Gatwick Airport in the United Kingdom. All right, to the other issues in and around today and tonight's program as
normal that we will continue on with. Obviously, if we need to know more, we will talk about it. But tonight the plan is to talk about, among other things, the relationships that we have with our own neighbors. New survey shows just how little contact some generations are actually having with different age groups and different people who are living near them. Also we're talking tonight is a new face for the show, Angie Bell. She's a new shadow
minister for the Liberal Party. Represents the lmpun around the Gold Coast. Now I'll mate Joe Hildebrand and obviously, while what's happened when it comes to this plane crash clearly is the tragic story of the day, many hearts broken earlier in the day upon learning of the death of the founder, the heart, the soul and the big big brain of the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson, who of course passed away today to smaller matters compared to anything to do with the events that are taking place on the
other side of the world. But still time moves on, and that means that our Prime Minister is most likely on a plane himself in the next few days. He'll be going off to a thing called the G seven, the meeting of the seven most powerful nations in the world, and a few stragglers that get brought on as well. There is some expectation that there will be a meeting between our Prime Minister and the President of the United States, Donald Trump. Now interestingly, of course, we know how Donald
Trump is viewed in Australia. We know how it played out in terms of our own federal election, which is perhaps why we are seeing a rather antagonistic position being taken by our government towards the leader of the free world, because they disagree on so many issues. Now we've seen throughout the week that Albanese's Trump G seven meeting is apparently in limbo in part as a result of the Australian government joining many other nations in sanctioning some of
the extreme members of the government in Israel. Meantime, we've heard that there's a whole bunch of non negotiables that go into the potential conversation, including trying to get that ten percent tariff removed of all Australian imports along with every other country in the world into the United States. In fact, it's even been referred to as red lines.
Not the type of stuff that you start to set as an expectation of a conversation between the leader of the free world theoretically the side on which we are upon, on which so much of our domestic military and political future, of course has been entwined with over many decades and
many decades into the future. And certainly we know that the relationship that the Prime Minister has put a little bit more effort into rather than the relationship with the new United States President, who of course was elected in November and very little communication between now and June. Of course, the middle of June is of the relationship between the
Chinese government and Australia. Now we know that you couldn't dare disrupt the Chinese government, because of course, what will they do with Australian trade, what will they do with Australian elections, what will they do when it comes to
military provocat provocation? My apologies. So you can see here that there is also two very weird views in my view, that have started to build amongst Australians about what seemed to be the two choices, the United States or China as the one that we need to have the better relationship with going into the future. I'm going to quote a collection of polls, including let's try to compare apples with apples, which of course is the situation involving the
United States. And these are opinions about the United States and China that Australians have given when it comes to, among other things, the Lowy Institute pole It shows here about Australians that do you believe that it is likely or unlikely that China will become a military threat to Australia.
You can see that just forty percent of people in two thousand and nine believe that, only thirty nine percent in twenty fifteen, and now seventy five percent after the COVID pandemic in twenty two in twenty three and then back to seventy one percent of people having that view last year at the last pole. So Australians believe that seventy one percent of them almost three quarters believe that there is a likelihood of military threat not coming from
the United States but coming from China. But how much do you trust the United States to act responsibly in the world. That number has gone from a positive of sixty eighty two or eighty three percent in twenty eleven down to now thirty six percent, with sixty four percent of Australians having not much, very little compnfidence in the United States ability to act responsibly in the world. We also see more polling, this time from the ABC in
their vote Compass. Now, of course this was a self owning survey where you opt in to take it, they don't contact you. It says that forty three percent of people believe that Australia should be somewhat or much less close to the United States, nineteen percent say much less close somewhat less close twenty eight percent, with only the best part of what seventeen eighteen percent of people believing that Australia should be closer to the United States. Compare
this with China. Australia should deepen its ties with China, sixteen percent say absolutely not, eighteen percent somewhat, and then those who believe we should deepen our ties with China is now the best part of twenty five percent who somewhat agree with another seven percent, So thirty three percent of people who believe we should be closer to China.
So help square this circle for me. Seventy percent of Australians believe that China is the military threat to Australia, but more than thirty percent of Australians believe we should have closer ties with China. Now, I don't have to be involved in the game of diplomacy. We can just see things for what they are and very obviously the actual military threat to Australia is not the United States now.
For too long, yes, Australia has relied essentially on if we do the bidding at times of the United States. If we lean on them and they lean on us for places like military bases in the middle of the country like Pine Gap for intelligence or up in Darwin as a place to afford to deploy marines, then Australia will be in a stronger and better position. But seemingly people seem to think that the great difference between what's more than seventy percent of people think is the military
threat is all to do with Donald Trump. Now, I am fully fluent in MAGA and I understand all of the benefits of Donald Trump, but I also know that mine is the minority view in Australia, and this might be hard for some people to hear, who think we should just be more trumpy all the time. Here's the reality of a pole which was done globally by the Pure Research Company, and even if they're left leaning, the
results are still worth talking about. Only voters in Sweden have stronger anti Trump views than Australians, who believe that the president is unable to understand complex problems, not qualified to hold his job, and unlikely to deal with major issues such as the wars in Ukraine or Gaza. Let's compare how Australia feels about Donald Trump compared to the rest of the countries that were surveyed. Ninety one percent of people in this pole from Australia describe the president
as being arrogant. Eighty one percent describe him as dangerous. This compares to the national of the international average of eighty percent when it comes to arrogant and sixty five percent when it comes to dangerous. In terms of apparently Australia's view of Donald Trump when it comes to his ability to deal with issues such as the US migrant policies. Now, obviously he has a much different position than the open borders that produce ten minion illegal immigrants under Joe Biden.
But apparently just thirty one percent of Australians believe that Donald Trump is the right person to handle things like US immigration policies, let alone US China relations, let alone
issues to do with climate change. Now, regardless of whether you like or dislike Donald Trump, whether you think his style is too much or not enough, whoever those people seem to be, the reality is is that if you are faced with two choices, there is only one obvious one, and that is the one that still practices freedom, that has elections, that actually does not have slave labor to produce the technologies that'supp of lebial unlock a renewable energy future.
A million people are currently being held in slave labor camps in China. The legal systems of the United States versus China, the governance and democracy of the United States versus China, the idea that decades after fighting side by side in the Pacific with the United States and with the United States and the United Kingdom in Europe, which means we are as free as we are today because
of those actions. To see now that the personality of the President of the United States seems to be a determinant factor about people knowing which side we should be on now again, Australia in many ways sold out to China a long time ago when it comes to the business leaders who were more than willing to sell their product, but of course they handed over power to the CCP to be able to strangle that product should we ever embarrassed them, and they were the ones to define embarrassment.
Of course, that all happened after Australia wanted consequences after a pandemic that killed millions of people and shut down our country for the best part of two years. But because the president himself of the United States is unpopular in Australia, the Prime Minister of Australia is the one setting red lines and in some ways looking forward to some sort of a confrontation which may play out with
the US President in the next couple of days. Now, I hope it is a warm and resetting conversation because all of the same concerns that Anthony Aberinezi had about the Chinese relationship, he clearly needs to start to have about the American one. If our local, state or federal elections become about the lesser of two evils, I'll take the United States one hundred and fifty times over the
system of the Chinese Communist Party in Beijing. Now again, for those bad actors that will deliberately misinterpret any that I've just had to say, Australians know there is a difference between the government of China and its people. We know there is a difference between the system of government in China and people who have historic or family ties to China here in Australia. Anyone who suggests anything else by criticizing China is of course trying to blur the lines.
And of course there are many people who just straight up hate Donald Trump because they are of the left and cannot stand what they believe he is doing negatively to their country. They are consuming like a fire hose information that is anti Trump all day every day from the news media in large parts of Australia, but certainly in the United States. Take for example, the events of this week and the rioting that has taken place in and around Los Angeles. Now, remember, people have been confronted
who are trying to enforce the law. If you're a person who believe the president did the wrong thing by pardoning people in January, because in part of their confrontation with law enforcement, how does that not apply to the people who are confronting law enforcement enforcing the immigration laws
of the United States. Yet there are people on so called mainstream television in the United States who are telling you that, even though you can see with your own two eyes concrete blocks being hurled from bridges into the windscreens of police cars, that if moving, would have killed the driver, there's nothing to see here.
There is no vicious and violent mob in Los Angeles. The National Guard troops are doing absolutely nothing, the Marines are invisible and obviously doing absolutely nothing, and peaceful protesters have been peacefully submitting to arrests in small numbers to make their point of protest against what Donald Trump is trying to do in their city.
Remember last night I showed you one of the protesters who was explaining why the Mexican flags were being flown. Protesters allegedly protesting against the immigration policies of the American president, And of course all of that was because they believed
that historically Mexico was still including territories such as California. Well, again, the same guy who says nothing to see here about what you can see with your own eyes is basically repeating the central talking point as to why flags of Mexico are being flown, that all of it really isn't American territory at all.
Donald Trump repeatedly today referred to quote rioters bearing foreign flags. There were no rioters today, none, but there were Mexican flags in a place that was Mexico long before it became part of the United States as a result of a war the United States chose to wage on Mexico in order to obtain that territory.
Now, with lots of news that has happened, including breaking news in and around the program, there's been a few things that have been in the inbox this week that I want to take some time to clear out because they are interesting little nuggets of information that can all give us a bit of a better understanding about the world in which we live, including the question in and around devices and screen time and what that means for our kids, what it means for our grandkids, what it
means for our mates kids or grandkids. Now, the reality is that technology is a tool, but also it is increasingly like a digital casino full of dopamine, no natural light, and the whole aim of the game is to keep you there for as long as possible. Now, that's one thing if an adult knows that they are in a casino, But if they're a kid and they don't know the
way out, that's when it can become dangerous. The Australian Catholic University put some excellent work in this week into this talking about children's screen use and the emotional problems that fuel each other over time. This was reported by The Herald Sun as screen time warning, the bad habit
driving increasing rates of childhood anxiety and aggression. Let me read from the story here and the analysis of the one hundred and seventeen studies that were covering two hundred and ninety two thousand children across the world between the ages of birth and age ten, revealed excessive screen time was increasing children's chances of developing social and emotional problems, with video games the main culprit. Now I would suggest social media is going to be more in there, but
we'll get to that in a second. The research found that girls were more susceptible to developing socio emotional problems with greater screen years, while boys were more likely to resort to screens as a way of coping with socio emotional challenges. University of Queensland Associate Professor Michael noah Tel, who supervised the research, said excusive use of screens and any kind could lead to behavioral challenges as it took
time away from sleep, exercise and social interactions. Now, as you know, I've got a ten year old, I've got a seven year old, and they love their It's not going to pretend that they, when given the choice, wouldn't love to play a game or muck around with a nap. Now again, I'm fine with my kids having their childhood, not me trying to pretend that these children have to
have my childhood. And the reality was my version of screen time was the television of which I spent way too much time in front of But just how long is the right amount of time? Now? I know that if you're a parent or a grandparent, sometimes this stuff can be a little bit daunting and a little bit like remember every few days they'd come up with those surveys. One glass of wine a day will save your life, one glass of wine a day will kill it. Sometimes
this stuff can be a little cross purposes. But this wide study by the Australian Catholic University gives us some insight that you can start to do some sums on the kids in your life. Currently, the Australian Institute of Family Studies guidelines recommended no screen time for children younger than two, no more than an hour of the day
between two and five. This was increased to know more than two hours of sedentary recreational screen time per day for children and young people aged five to seventeen years, not including their schoolwork. Now, the perfect example here is that, of course, there is a period of time where you, the parent, are firstly in charge of whether the kids have a device at all, and then once the demands become that they want to use a device, you, the parent or the grandparent are in charge of how much
they can watch. And yes, if there is a bunch of screaming and yelling and carrying on as the device has removed, then guess what, don't put it back in their hand for another couple of days. There is all sorts of technology that exists now that means you can set up your Wi Fi network to literally give you access to the Internet for your phone while you're watching too many things before you fall asleep in bed, but you can turn off the access to data to other devices.
So literally, in our house, if my daughter is using an iPad and we've told them one hundred it's time to finish and they don't listen that, we just remove the Internet and the device essentially is killed off for the rest of the night. You are in charge of these things. Now, I want to take a moment to pause to remember the life of Brian Wilson. Brian Wilson, of course, is a musical genius, a man who changed the world with what he was able to do musically
via that incredible band, the Beach Boys. Now I could sit here all night and for the rest of the hour play the songs that I love, and I hope that this weekend you spend some time listening to not just the hits, but the deep cuts. You spend some time watching the interviews, and I'll tell you there's a specific documentary I think you should go and have a
look at. But the Beach Boys, of course, perfected surf rock in the nineteen sixties, and their incredible work in and around pet Sounds spurred the Beetles onto Sergeant Peppers and the bands that have all been influenced as a result of thinking about music in a completely different way.
His incredible yet tortured mind is ponsible for incredible songs like God only knows, Oh my Gosh, I Get around and my personal favorite, which is only about two and a half minutes, depending on which cut you can hear, maybe you can pull it out to about three depending
on the mix. A fantastic and incredible song that I was listening to over and over and over again today, thanking the genius that we were able to experience when I came to Brian Wilson, and that's the incredible and amazing song Do it.
Again, everybody Ways, show Californian Girls and beautiful.
They told me I could only play fifteen seconds at a time. You know I want to play these things in full. The layers and layers of music that were there, the essential sort of orchestration around what became pop songs, the ability to listen to ten different details at once in a really simple song about a car or surfing. By the way, he couldn't surf, yet of course he could understand the experience of surfboards, beautiful cars, and for
his interests, beautiful women. Along with his two brothers, with their cousin, and many others that have come and gone, the Beach Boys are a legendary band of the United States. His genius behind the scenes, as I say, was complicated
and tortured. If you ever get the opportunity, go and find a documentary that he was part of just a couple of years ago on the American PBS network, which is the American Masters series, where even as he was on the verge of his eightieth birthday, explain the simplicity of what very complicated sounds begin as what's.
Your process like Russia?
Yeah, start with the background track, They do the background balls, they do the leads.
There is also an excellent documentary which if you have a Disney plus you'll be able to see which is about the Beach Boys. It's one that talks not just about the ups and downs of his personal life, the family dynamics, but again the celebration of his genius through music.
Round Get it around, I Get it around.
Three brothers, Brian Dennison, carl a cousin, Mike Love and our good friend Al Jardine.
That's a family to me. He's been going toother for a really long time.
Can There really is a great deal of fellowship in the group and we've been turn off a.
Laughing And if you want to share his musical genius, then why not choose his favorite song to do it with family this weekend?
Do you have an all time favorite Brian Wilsons California Girls.
I always tell people that California Girls in my favorite. Why because it's just got that beat shuffle bit.
I like him.
Well, these girls are hit by really those styles. Beware Ryan Wilson and the Beach Boys songs he wrote about gorgeous girls and suntan surfers and cool cars made the whole world fall in love with California.
Thank you and goodbye to Brian Wilson. What a phenomenal talent. Enjoy his music forevermore or in a secure on Poe before we get to that conversation including Whom's winner and loser of the week. The latestur when it comes to this plane crash which has happened in the past couple of hours in India. We have got a statement from the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom because of course this was a flight coming from India to the UK.
There are at least three flights a week that are direct between the airport where this flight has taken off. Only got two hundred and fifty meters into the air before crashing. Two hundred and forty two people on board, the assumption being that we don't know whether anyone has survived. One hundred and sixty nine people are Indian citizens, fifty three are from the UK and eleven children are on board.
Keir Starmer, the UK Prime Minister, says the scenes emerging of a London Band plane carrying many British nationals crashing in the Indian city of Amenabad are devastating. I've been kept updated as the situation develops, and my thoughts are with the passengers and their families at this deeply distressing time. So obviously we will hear more, including when he gets in front of a microphone or camera, and more information
from the UK as that takes place. But again, strength and love to all of the families involved, no matter where they are on either side of the flight or obviously all the way around the world. Now let's talk about the smaller issues of the world, which are often Australian politics and a whole lot more. We're two very big brain and beautiful people, none of them wonderful. Joe Hildebrand here in the man cake. Good evening, sir, how
I am ill, I'm lovely to see you. And Andrew Bella is a member of the Shadow Ministry in the Federal opposition and she lives in and around God's Country otherwise known as the Gold Coast. How Angie, Nice to see.
It, mate, fantastic, Paul, Thanks for having me so.
I want to not get into the will heel won't They meeting in and around Donald Trump and Anthony Albernezi again, Well, I'm no fan of ALBO. I want the best possible relationship between the United States and Australia. I hope there is an opportunity for a meeting. I hope that everyone can charm the pants off each other and things start
to move in the right direction. But I wanted to talk a little bit about where I was at the start of the show, which is how the hell did we get here when seventy percent of the country believed that the military threat to Australia would be China, but thirty percent of Australians say we should have closer ties with China, while a very significant number of people say we need to pull back from the United States, principally
because of the personality of their president. I say, for the four hundredth time, I am talking about the CCP, not the Chinese people. I'm talking about the government in Beijing, not the diaspora that might be in Australia. But Joe, it's not a choice of a less of two evils. And I understand the diplomacy the Prime Minister needs to play, but about these pole results, we've got to be on the side of the American absolutely.
We do.
Look, America is our oldest ally, America is the reason why Japan didn't invade. I don't want to get into debates about the Brisbane line.
I was going to say, don't talk about the queens anyway, don't talk to the queen's landline. But point B, we need America.
Without the USA, we basically don't exist in the Asia Pacific. We need to be so intertwined with them that effectively any attack on us is an attack on them. That is why we have their troops stationed in Darwin. That is why we let them monitor the solar system in Pine Gap. And that's why we went to war with them in Vietnam when Britain didn't go to war with them in Vietnam. That's why we went to war with them in Iraq when France, their oldest ally, didn't go
to war with them in Iraqs. So I think it's pretty poor form for the Americans to now try to use that alliance as a political football. And I don't like what Donald Trump is doing at all. However, Orcus is going to last for decades. Donald Trump is going to last for three and a bit years. We need to think much much more long term and strategically than about people saying, oh, I don't really like Donald Trump, so maybe we should just hang out with China Jijiping.
I promise he was going to be around for a lot longer than Donald Trump, and even when he does go, he'll probably be replaced with someone just as bad.
Angie, you know the trip wire that has now been created around in part some of this conversation politically. But let's just deal with the reality here that we always keep being told that regardless of whether we like a prime minister in this country or dislike a president in the United States, the relationship must be more important than
the people involved in it. That said, it does feel like, you know, there's political advantage to both of them to kind of treat each other poorly at the moment, and I think that is to the collective dissatisfaction of the Western world and our little pocket of it. We need a close relationship, not red lines and demands between these two leaders.
Well, I think we all agree on these points, Paul and Joe. Great to be on the show with you. It's so important our strategic partnership with the United States. And what this story in the newspaper did outline is that the majority of Australians do believe that our relationship with the United States is way more important than one prime minister and one president in history, and our relationship does go way back. We have gone to war with the United States of America.
We have had each other's backs for.
A long time and now we do have the Orchest Agreement in place that the United States is looking at now reviewing. I would say that this is never more important than ever in our history that the Prime Minister does secure a meeting with the President at the G seven. This is a matter of utmost importance for our relationship
to continue. But most importantly we do have that close relationship with the United States, and Australians understand and Americans understand that it's bigger than two men or maybe one day women in the White House and here in.
Canberra fingers crossed, Fingers crossed. Now let's talk about a situation involving Queensland and what is called Jack's Law. And this is greater abilities for the police to be able to search people for knives, to do it without warrant, to do it in a street, to be able to do it perhaps even in a family home. Now here in part is the explanation for it from Queensland.
We have a scourge in Queensland, right across Queensland and a culture of young people carrying knives and we're sending a clear message today that if you carry a knife unlawfully that the police now have the power to catch you and put you before the court.
Dan's a good man and a good minister. To me, it seems like a no brainer. I remember our experience when we're in to Woomba and you doing a show, is that you were asked by police if they could if they could perform the wand test on you. The laws now change that to make it essentially one where it can be demanded of you. I think this is pretty simple. If you've never carried a knife, then in the same way when you get pulled over for driving tests,
you know you're not going to fail. So what's the problem here, Well, Paul.
I know the bees Le's, I've met them quite a few times and it's their advocacy really that has got the Chrystophually government to where it is with these knife laws. I think they are right and they are proper and I congratulate Dave Chrystopauley and the LMP here in Queensland for implementing them. It's time that victims' rights were put ahead of perpetrators' rights, and these are good laws and their necessary laws and it's a big problem across Queensland
and I'm sure other states as well. I know New South Wales has also put their laws in place. So this is about time. It's right and well done to Queensland government.
Yeah of these things and you know, look the libertarian in me always you know these little moments where reality clashes against what seems to be a good idea to say out a barbecue. But you know how you often will hear sort of say the Greens turn around and say, oh, sniffer dogs at the drug parties are terrible because they might find people with drugs and that makes people anxious who are taking drugs. Well, i'm sorry if you've got a knife. And there is this, and there is increasingly
this being used as the weapon of choice. We know the machitty situation in Victoria. If this helps the police stop a single person being heard, then I can't see where it's going to be used to claim. Is it's just going to be used to annoy people that they want to annoy.
Well, I remember when people who broke the law were tough. They didn't fall back up their civil limites and.
Say you're going to be a drug dealer.
At least, you know, I rock up to that music.
Festival and own it. Roll the dice, Roll the dice. Son. Look, I think this sends your complaints to somewhere. Yeah, exactly right.
But I think he's a no brain and his hath Wales's police, I think have asked it already, I believe received or certainly being reviewed similar laws. It's in stark contrast, I think to the Victorian government's approach, where they actually blame the implement itself rather than the person who's carrying It's like, does a sign to arrest the machetes at the source, stop the machete before it attacks again.
There are whereas you've got queens.
People said, well, no, if someone's actually carrying a blade on a street, and of course these knives would still be easily accessible in Victoria or elsewhere. If we're suspicious of someone, of course you have to be able to There is nothing progressive, there is nothing left wing, and it always blows my mind that some lefties seem to think so about allowing crime and criminals to run rampant on the street. They always affect the most vulnerable and
most disadvantaged communities. It is always the most vulnerable and disadvantaged people. The people who left should be defending who are the most likely to be victims of this kind of violent crime. So, for the love of God, defend them and protect them instead of the perpetrator.
In the next thing, we're gonna have a chat about the future Liberal Party, particularly out to younger voters. But Angie, we see today that at a schools summit, which I think was being held by the Age the Catholic schools have come forward to say they want to go back to basics, to reintroduce discipline into the classroom. The OECD has already shown we have some of the most disruptive
classrooms in the Western world. But we also know we've spent hundreds of billions of dollars supposedly trying to improve our education system, but the results keep going backwards, to the extent where a third of primary school kids, a third of high school kids the basics they're not meeting
when it comes to those napland tests. We just went through a federal election where no one was talking about this, that the future of the country and a third of it that is currently in school is not meeting the basics. Why can't. We have a multiple week long results focused debate around education in this country and it just sort of pops up. We all agree that something should change, and then nothing does.
Well.
I think a return to explicit instruction is really important. And as part of the answer, as you say, we've been pouring billions and billions of dollars into education, and that plan results are going down the toilet.
So I think it is important remember back, Paul.
I'm not sure exactly of your age, but I remember when I was in high school.
It's certainly all about learning.
By rote you you will never.
You know, we know what our twelve times tables are.
You will never offered me by guessie. Yeah, the answer is I went to school at the age is un forty six, so we're banging around the same time. And it was it was wrote learning, it was timestables, it was foundation writing was about as fancy as it got. Yep.
Absolutely, and you remember those times tables most of the time, even as you get older. So I think explicit instruction really is important. It's a way that students can remember what they've learned, rather than this sort of learning by experimenting with an idea and then perhaps coming up with what the solution is, or perhaps not so.
I think going back to explicit.
Instruction in maths, in arithmetic, in writing, in those areas reading as well. It's so very important that we just get back to basics. Say the other thing that you mentioned, I was.
Going to say, and the good news is that's actually happening. And the Education Minister, Jason Claire is all in on this, all in.
On direct So when do we see something takes a long time. He's been around for three years. All the states are labor. Yeah, yeah, but you.
Have but to change the way you teach that you actually have to change the way you teach teachers.
So you have to put.
All that in the curriculum, not of the classroom, but of the actual teaching degree, so that teachers are graduating learning how to use these new which are actually old.
When do we see something in the end five teen two years?
Yeah, yeah, look, I wait for a whole twelve. It will take a few years, but it is already happening. And also teachers in the classroom already in the best, the highest performing schools, public schools included, they are already doing exactly this sort of stuff. And that's why they're performing.
Well representing the Prime Minister, the Minister, especially in the great public Book. Ye K, there we go, all right, quick break back, more preay to talk about, including wins and losers of the week. One a second here on Pulmurray Lit. Thanks for watching, Thank you so much. In conversation with the wonderful Joe Hildebrand and Angie Bell, who's
shadow minister in Susin Lai's shadow Cabinet. Now, Angie, we've spoken on the show before, and I really am looking forward to more conversations with your good self and a few other newer faces as part of the frontline of what the coalition's trying to do, because the reality is if they keep doing the same things, they're going to get the same results. And we know that we had the conversation with Nick Kta earlier in the week about jen Z and about how they're disquiet is not something
to eye roll at. It's to actually try to come up with policy solutions for and for those of us that are sitting at around our age in gen X. It's the opportunity for us to not just assume that all knowledge is known of previous generations and previous ways of doing it. So what's your thought about how the other side of politics can get back into it the very least a choice for younger votes.
Well, I think you're right, it is important that we connect with younger voters. Over the last a couple of weeks, I've had at least four round tables with young people. I am the Shadow Minister for Youth and was also in the last parliament, and I've delivered three Gold Coast Youth Impact summits actually, and the third one was just last Friday, And so I feel like I'm very much in touch with young people on the Gold Coast and.
Listening to their concerns.
Just today I had a round table with Miami High School here on the Gold Coast where young people outline that they're concerned about housing and asked about solutions around housing and moving forward. So I think that we do need to interpret our values to young people, or they need to interpret our values in a new way, in a contemporary way, and we need to be relevant to their needs. So we need to listen very closely to
young people. They have a lot to give, they have a lot to contribute to our society, and there are some fantastic young people around the country that I've come into contact with over the last few years.
In the portfolio.
I think the other thing, Paul that's really important the highlight is that Susan Lee has elevated youth into Cabinet along with the Environment Portfolio with myself and so young people will have a loud voice in the shadow Cabinet and I think that's really important moving forward.
I think also my colleagues agree with that.
That we need to reconnect with young people and we need to outline what our values are. We also need to explain to them in easy speak how bad some of Labour's policies are and some of the Greens policies are as well, but particularly Labour's super tax and how that will impact young people because a twenty year old today who was on an average wage, by the time they're sixty, they will be impacted by this terrible super tax that Labor has come up with that will impact
all young people across the country. Because it's up to us to really explain that to them.
Yeah, because Joe, again, part of what Angie's talking about, part of what Nick was writing about, which is yeah, there is great generational difference between our parents, grandparents, the Howard years, where we sit now and where the future may be, and philosophically like, I don't want a country that is dependent on government, right, I don't want that triangle of dependency where either your work for government, handout from government, or the biggest client is government and we're
slowly managing the client. Now, obviously it's not just about you know, how you present yourself. It's about the ideas. It's about actually engaging and I think you know at the moment, yes, youth is often to the left, but in the same way that the right doesn't own strength, the left doesn't own compassion, and the assumption that only the left can communicate with people under the age of forty not true.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. I would firstly like to award Angie the Sir Humphrey Apple Be Medal for courage for trying to get young people excited about superannuation, because I cannot even get myself excited about I'm almost old enough to receive it. So but yeah, look, it is a really difficult one. I think of two people when I think about this issue. I think of John Howard and
I think of Donald Trump, John Howard. I'm old enough to remember people were talking about this incredible shift of young voters to the Coalition in the sort of heyday of John Howard's government. And it wasn't because they thought he was cool or because they thought he was edgy or funky whatever. They just thought he was kind of like a nice, kindly granddad who might be a bit old fashioned about things but ultimately would take care of them and maybe with a bit of tough love, you know.
Blah blah blah.
But again, that wasn't seeing the Coalition get a majority of young voters by a long shot. That was young voters voting, you know, instead of ninety ten for labor in the Greens, maybe eighty twenty or seven.
And by shaving it up a little bit, that's exactly what Trump did. That's exactly right.
And the Trump you actually have something else, interestingly, where the Democrats look so just not nauseating in every possible way, but so out of touch, so elitist, so kind of forbidding and tut tutting in their kind, their language and their attitudes and trying to regulate language, and all the ridiculous woke staff in the obsession with identity politics, that.
Trump actually did look cool.
He did look like the cool guy, especially for younger and working classmen. He got half of Hispanic men, and he got a third of black men. And we all know that white working classmen just ran to him and drives and that was driven by young people.
So which again doesn't mean me, any of any of us say, be more trumpy or it's just about the concept of well, different place.
That's right, and don't chase young votes at the expense of alienating your base. Young people grow up, so come see sense.
Well, Angie, thank you so much. We'll see you again next week, along with a wonderful Joe as well. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you guys to appreciate it. Quick break back with more here a final thought before off to the late debate.