It's time now for another edition of Pats from the Past podcast. Matt Smith, Paul Prolo and please to be joined by former Patriot quarterback Brian hoy Or.
Brian.
Thanks for coming by, man, Thanks appreciate you on guys. Yeah, we asked this of everybody. So I think people who are football fans, Patriot fans know, is Brian gonna play? Is Brian not gonna play? What's what's going on with Brian Hoyr these days?
Man, I don't know. I think it would take a great opportunity to come along for me to do that. Obviously, I was in Las Vegas last year. I know I can still play because I beat the Patriots last year, one of the most tooche, one of the most It's on my list, Brian, one of the Twitter sweet moments of my career. So we'll talk about that later. But you know, so I know I can still physically do it. But at thirty eight years old, my kids are getting older.
You know, I think it would take a really great opportunity for me, you know, to come along, for me to to kind of look and see. But so I know I can still do it. Body feels relatively healthy, and you know, so we'll see. It's always open. People always say, you know, if someone's offering you an opportunity to play and you feel like you could do it, you know, you know, I remember a former teammate saying, play till they tell you you can't. So definitely capable
of it. It's just got to be I think, the right opportunity at this point.
You know, idiots like us sit there and oh, you know, you can play, or it's time to go, and everything like that. But I don't think the lay people realize what's it like to make that decision as a family.
Yeah, when you have a.
Wife who's supported you cross country trips, taking kids back and forth, at some point in time, her decision or her opinion, while always valued, you got to really listen to. That's got to be hard, like from a as a family standpoint, like at what point time do I need to devote my time to them?
Right?
And that's a huge part of the decision making. So that's why I said, like, it have to be the right opportunity and all those things, because you know, deciding to go to play in Las Vegas last year, it was not an easy choice. It was an easy choice because it was Josh in my relationship with him. But it wasn't an easy choice in the regards of what
does this mean for my family? And thankfully we had a great school here that allowed our kids to kind of virtual school with the help of a tutor out there. But it was rough. It was it was a rough transition and they were all happy to come back once the season was over. And so now my son, he's going into seventh grade. He got accepted as Avarian brother.
So you know, those are all things that you have to take into account, Like I want to watch him play football at of course he's watched me play for a long time. So maybe it's times, you know, for a role.
Reverse when you have when you came out of Michigan State, I mean, you didn't get drafted, yep, And I don't know what your expectations were heading in, but to then have what a fifteen year career off of that, what were your expectations sort of when you arrived here in two thousand and nine, what were you hoping for.
I was just talking about this with my son the other day and I said, listen, when I didn't get drafted, you know, I kind of thought Okay, the Patriots are going to sign me. I'll learn for Tom Brady. Obviously, I grew up I watched Bill coach in Cleveland, so I always kind of had an affinity to him, and obviously him being a great coach, I thought it was a great opportunity to go learn. And I thought, you know, maybe i'll make the practice squad if I get released.
At least I'll learn from these guys. And then sure enough, I kind of worked my way up the ranks, ended
up being Tom's backup my rookie year. And you know, the things that I learned in those first four years were so invaluable to me that when I finally got some opportunities to play, you know, you put those in motion and then you just keep stack in years, stack in years, and and you know the thing about the quarterback position is if you're relatively competent and you're a good guy, and you make some connections, you know, you
just extend your career, extend your career. That's I mean, when I look at last year, if if Josh isn't the head coach in Las Vegas last year, then you know, maybe my my my career ends there. But you know. Luckily for me, I've met a lot of great coaches, played with a lot of great players, and made a lot of great connections which allowed me to do that.
That's a little bit unorthodox Brian as a rookie, Now you're back up Brady, who's, by the way, is coming off a knee surgery at that point, Tom, and you're the only backup quarterback your rookie year. That was the same way in twenty ten, you're the only backup court. Like, not a lot of teams did that. Well, how did that? What was your thought process in that? Like you want to talk about literally next man up into your one pitch away, Yeah, you're one pitch away at that point.
I think I was too naive to even understand that at that point. You know, now looking back, when you realize, like Tom's coming off of major knee reconstruction, had you know, some hiccups along the way. Man if I had had to play that year, I don't know how ready I would have been. Obviously, Bill believed in me, and Bill O'Brien believed to me, and and so I'm sure it would have you know, worked itself out. We had a
really good team. So I think I would have relied on those guys around me, But you know, at that point, you're just I was just thrilled to be an NFL football player, and now I'm going to a meeting room every day with Tom Brady and soaking up what I can I can learn from him. And then you know, that went for four years and then until I got
released in twenty twelve. So I mean, those years, like you, those are kind of like, you know, the years you're building your foundation of your career, and I couldn't have done it in a better place.
So I wanted to ask you a little bit about that rookie season. You were part of some really good teams, and you know, ultimately you were part of a champion in eighteen, but you know, you had that great year in twenty ten, twenty eleven, you go to the super Bowl in two thousand and nine. You probably didn't recognize it at the time, it's your rookie year, but do you kind of look back and say, there was a little bit of something amiss in two thousand and nine.
That's sort of the way it's kind of viewed here. That was kind of a reset year, and we're very spoiled because we've been right of a lot of when I didn't know any better TENNISI is going to the playoffs and all that stuff is not.
I thought it was great. I'm like, man, I'm a great But did you.
Did you sense any like sort of dysfunction at the time, or you know, maybe looking back at it, do you feel like that wasn't the same as some of the better teams that you were on.
Definitely wasn't the same. I think looking back now, knowing what I know and being on some great teams, it wasn't. There was definitely some learning curve, There was some adjusting to new I mean, that was Bill O'Brien's first year as a coordinator here, you know, so now I know
how important that is, you know, being a quarterback. When you're learning, even if you're keeping somewhat of the system intact, you're working with someone new and and that was you know, so those were kind of I guess you call growing pains. But I thought, like, man, we're going to the playoffs, like we're this is I'm on the Patriots. This is like a Super Bowl organization. Like okay, one year, you know, we didn't win the Super Bowl and I'm like, oh,
we'll win it next year. I mean, I think that that's kind of the expectation you have when you come into that organization. And I've always said this, I've always looked at it. When Tom Brady was the quarterback, I never went into a game thinking we're not gonna win. Ever, there was never And when I've been on other teams, whether I was the quarterback or someone else is the quarterback, and I'm like, man, I don't know how much a
chance we have this Sunday. And I can honestly say every game that I ever played here backing Tom up, that there was I never had that feeling. And obviously a lot of other players around that. But you know, when I talk with a lot of my old teammates, I think that that feeling was very you know, similar.
Bring it up because it's again that's why I preface it by saying we're spoiled. You know, when that's considered a quote unquote down here. But you know, Bill infamously said on that documentary, I just can't get these guys.
To play there.
I was playing in that game at the time, Tom standing I'll get rushed by New Orleans Lewins, and I think I remember thinking to myself, like, wow, I'm playing in a Monday night football game. You know, like, okay, one back game, we got crushed, but I'm playing in
a Monday night football game. That's pretty cool. And you know, you see that and you really and then having been on champion, champion team and teams that went to Super Bowls, you realize like, we probably didn't have a chance to go to the super Bowl that year.
Right, And then you have that off season, which I think is a very sort of important offseason. Ye kind of springboards the second run of the Dynasty. You get Devine, you get Gronk, you get Adan Hernandez. Did you sort of sense like, wow, we're going to be a lot better you sort of get into training camp in twenty ten.
I think what I realized, you know, going into my second year is Aro is like, wow, we added these two tight ends. You add Devin who you know clearly was a great player run off the batom, he's returning kickoffs for touchdowns. You know, a first round pick like you added, and those are you know, I'm just as young as them. So it's kind of like, wow, we got like some really good players. We had Chung the year that I came. Yep, Julian was coming, you know,
kind of creating his way. And I mean, look, I whether it was night being naive or I thought I was on the greatest team with the greatest quarterback and the greatest coach, I'm like you were, and I was
you were looking back. I understand like you guys say, you're spoiled, But there was kind of a lull in the action and having watching the Dynasty myself, you know, I didn't do a ton of research on the Patriots like what was before I came, But it was kind of cool for me to see like what happened, you know, prior to when I was here, and then kind of see the years that I was here, my first stint and then it kind of ends with my second stint
here as kind of the end of that show. But it was kind of cool to see some of the stuff that I didn't experience, to see you know, tie log and interviewed and kind of making fun of Tom and and you know, see these guys and like NuGen and stuff, and and so for me that was kind of cool to kind of see the part that I didn't really live right.
You were fourteen and two your second year, Tom was the MVP. The backup quarterback's job is to always be ready because you're one snap away, one play away. And I assume, but I want to ask you you prepared as such? I need to be I need to be ready to go. Was there ever anything in your mind? And I understand he's coming off major surgery, need reconstruction. Was there every time you go? This guy's not missing
any snaps? You know what, They're gonna have to drag like the bone's gonna have to be visible in order for me to get in unless there's a blog because he's not missing snaps.
Yeah, there was a There was a game my rookie year down in Miami and on Friday, probably I'll never forget this. On Friday practice, we're kind of just we're winding down like there might be one offensive period left in practice, and Isaiah Standback was playing scout team gunner and he's coming down the sideline and he was a kind of a quarterback slash receiver and Tom's kind of
messing around, goes to grab him. His finger gets caught in his jersey and he breaks his middle finger on Friday with one period to go in practice, and I'm like, oh God, like, I'm gonna play this. I'm gonna I haven't practiced all week.
This is just throw.
This is throwing him, and I'm gonna have to play in this game. He broke his middle finger and so of course he goes and he sees Alex, and Alex is working his magic and and he gets a I'm pretty sure he got like a a block, you know, like a injection to block so he wouldn't feel it. He's like, if I don't feel it, my body will just naturally do what it does. And he throws for like three hundred and forty yards and I was like everyone knew because he had to be added to the
injurroom sure, and people are like, oh, what is it? What? His middle finger was broken? Right, And as a rookie like, I'm you know, I'm nervous because I haven't. It'd be one thing if you get a whole week of practice and you know you're gonna play. It's literally like I got like the last drive of practice on Friday, and then it was like a constant monitoring process of like where's he at? Where's he at? And we'd be doing I was at BC the other day with Bill O'Brien
watching practice and we were talking about this story. I'm like, he's like, remember we were going over to call sheet and Alex is just like working on his finger, working on his finger. And I mean that was the point I realized, like, this guy is. I mean, for all we know about him as a great player, the toughness factor, I mean, the things that you saw that I saw him play through and the toughness was I mean, it's incredible. You could do a whole documentary on that.
Well, talk about like Paul saying, what were spoiled?
I think one of the things that we, you know, loosely associated with the organization and fans take for granted is it's the line about availability, right, you know, and you know better than anybody, you know, if you're available to play, you play. If you can't, you're sort of discarded. Yeah, and you're out of sight, out of mind. And I think the fact that he told the line every single week,
regardless of what's going on. Great player and everything like that, But I think that that gets overlooked a lot of times when you talk about him. Yeah, he stepped up. He was there, ready to go.
In all the years that I backed him up, I never had to enter a game for his injury, which I mean, that's amazing. I've had to do it multiple times other places, oddly enough for two other Patriots guys, Jacoby and Jimmy this past year. But in all the years that I backed him up, all the big hits that I saw, I remember, I remember him taking a hit my rookie year or second year by Elvis Dumerville. There's a great clip where he's exactly and I'm like, my chinstr I mean, he got up, and you know,
he talks about it. He's like, I took pride in showing people that they weren't going to hurt me. And I mean, you go to the AFC Championship game in twenty seventeen when his thumb gets all, you know, messed up. I'm like, I'm playing this game. There's no way. I just saw like his hands split open. There's no way he's playing. And sure enough he you know, he wears his red gloves out there and we kind of messed with the media a little bit, but you know, he
through the work and commitments he had to play. He played, you know.
But you mentioned it, so let's bring that up right there at that point in time that was Was that Wednesday of the week or Thursday of the week, was it?
I mean it was Wednesday because I end up practicing all day Thursday Friday.
You're talking about not getting any reps. You had reps at least mentally at that point time. You wouldn't have been surprised if if Josh comes up to and goes by the way you're up.
I fully expected to play until I would say Sunday morning, you know. And that was the I had just gotten back like seven weeks prior to that, you know. And I remember thinking to myself, well, you were the starting quarterback in San Francisco at the beginning the year. This is where you wanted to be. You're a starting quarterback in
the NFL, Like this was your goal anyway. So and I'll never forget like that happening, and everybody kind of just standing around, and i''m like, all right, come on, like we gotta we gotta move on, like we got to I gotta practice. And I was the only quarterback, so I had to do every rep on offense and every rep on scout team the remainder of the week, and you know, I just remember having so much confidence in the guys around me that I was like, I feel good, I know, plan really well, and I'll be
ready to go if need be. But sure enough, Sunday morning rolls around and he puts some you know, Canisio tape on it, and I think the biggest thing was could he take a snap? And once he figured out that, he was going to, you know, power through that. I mean, some of the plays he made in that game were incredible.
How winning to the.
One to Amandola down the middle of the field. I mean to throw that with the injury that he had in his thumb, I don't even know how you physically do that.
How about the game winner on the back of the line that there's only one place to balkns right, So in that situation, Brian, like, at that point time you've seen him do all these different things. The Miami gave me a rookie year, Are you beyond to mazed at that point or he just goes, oh yeah, yeah, that's Tom.
I mean, there was there was really three times in my career where I felt like that was going to be the case. So we talked about the two and then the one. I think it was in twenty eighteen after we lost to Tennessee. He hurt his knee at the end of that game, and I didn't really know
the extent. It was the week of Thanksgiving, and I think we had like a longer for whatever reason, we had Thanksgiving off, But we practiced on Wednesday, and he practiced the whole day Wednesday, and so I'm like, all right, he's good. And then I'll never forget, like cooking my turkey outside. I had like a big green egg. I'm smoking the turkey for the first time. He calls me like, hey, babe, I don't think I'm gona able to I don't think I'm gonna be able to place on him. Like what
are you talking about. You just practiced the whole day. He's like, yeah, this nee really like swoll up on me. And you know, I'm gonna see what Alex can do. But you know, he's like it just he's like I'm as a friend, like I'm just telling you be ready to go.
It's interesting.
So I remember being like, all right, where's the playbook? Like we got to put the extra time in and that was a Sunday morning where me, Josh and Bill are all waiting for Tom to come down to be like are you are you gonna go?
What is it?
And in my in my mind, I'm like, if he's walking down here, he's gonna say I'm gonna play. But it's just there was really three times in my career where I was like, all right, you're probably gonna have to play, and then sure enough, you know, it came to the time for him to play, and he was good to go.
Do you have up the turkey?
It got a probably a little overcooked.
Oh oh yeah, A look, so how about some of the times that you did you did get to play some of the memories of that.
Do you remember the first game? I mean, I'm sure you do. Yeah, first time you got in.
Well, that was the snow game in October against you know, the Titans, which they had the oilers uniforms.
I mean, that was one that was one of the great UNI games of all time.
Yeah, and I had just gotten engaged to my wife that week and my birthday. It was a few weeks. It was a great October was a great month my rookie year, and you know, so we were killing those guys and I got to go in and it was in the snow. And you know that's for me growing up in the in the north, like in Cleveland, when it snowed, you went outside to play football in the backyard because you can get tackled, it's not going to hurt.
And so to me, that was kind of like the welcome to the NFL moment, Like here I am, I'm playing a game, it's snowing. I scored a touchdown on a quarterback sneak and you know, so I'll never forget that. And then really, the next time I really played like an extending amount of time was the following year. I think it was the last game the year against Miami, who touchdown past Brandon Tate there you go, yeah, and got crushed. It was it was I got crushed on
the play. They actually called it rough in the passer play, but I was kind of happy. My first touchdown was like a bomb, you know what I mean?
Do you show that one to your kids to say, hey, hey, why don't you look at dad stay in the pocket here and get his head kicked in the touchdown pass.
That was one of the routes that we called the pistol route that they talked about in The Dynasty with Randy. When Randy came, he's like, listen, I'm just gonna go where the open places. And so you know, I got to go in and they call a pistol route, and it's like you can go either way and you're only supposed to make like one cut and then go the opposite. And Brandon's like boom boom. So I'm like and then finally I see which way he's going, and I just
I launched it. And you know, that was a pretty good feeling to throw, you know, fifty yard touchdown pass for your first touchdown pass.
In eleven I think you attempted one pass.
Yeah, it was Gronk's record.
What's the go.
So let's let the fans know about what the story because I don't I don't necessarily remember that. Maybe that's just because I'm old and the passage of time. Yeah, but I don't have to go with the CT no no. But but like that was a at the time, that was a big deal.
Yeah, so it was that was the last game of the season. It was Gronk and Jimmy Graham. I think we're kind of battling like for the yardage record right for tight ends for a season, I think, and they were kind of going back and forth and their game ended, and and I think we realized on the sideline that Jimmy Graham had like four yards more than Rob. So we go in and I just so I remember going in, we were just gonna run the clock out, and then Bill Grass me He's like, look, Kronk needs like five
yards to break the records. So like we'll just put him outside and throw a hitch. Well, like a hitch is like a five six yard route. Catch the ball, but we have a conversion if they press you. So like if the guy comes up and pressed, you really can't run a hitch. So he runs a fade and and to be honestly, I kind of forgot that because I was like, all right, I'm gonna take three step drop,
I'm gonna throw a five yard hitch. I don't even know if I looked out there and I dropped back and I'm like, oh my god, he's running a go route. And so I remember lofting the ball up to him. He gets the record, and then it was kind of questionable whether his feet were inbound so we had to run like a quick play to make sure that it's it's sat. So that was a pretty cool memory too.
I love those kinds of things, though, because they're always telling us like, oh, that's.
A great well that game.
You know, that game was in the bag, and I think that mental he obviously Rob, but also to Bill, like, that's a huge record to break, and Rob will always joke you know, I threw him that pass to break that record, but I also threw him his first touchdown pass, although it was in a preseason game in Atlanta that year.
Remember, so yeah, you know he yeah, that's pretty impressive.
Yeah, yeah, I do remember, because I mean, like I can only imagine what you guys thought on the field.
Talked about this.
A little bits, no, no, but no, but the fact, like all of a sudden, these new weapons come in, we've got to revitalize the offense. We need to do more. I mean, you guys must have like, oh, my goodness, they're rookies, they're green and everything like that. But the ability to see what these guys could do in the field, yeah, was certainly eye open.
Funny.
I do remember dragging some guys against the Rams. I think, yeah, that was here yep into the end, and I remember thinking that kind of stuff.
I don't remember.
I think we all I think we all noticed. I think we all realized like, oh my god, these guys. I mean, he had never really seen a pair like this before. And I think Tom realized that early. And I know Rob jokes like he thought Tom hated him.
But Tom Tom would have those guys stay after practice and we would throw to him, and we would have Dane Fletcher I don't know if you guys, and like, hey, Dane, can you come cover these guys because we only just want to throw routes on air, I mean, and we'd be like, all right, Dane, play uh play cover five, which is like inside leverage two man, and then we just run outbreaking routes to teach them like when you get this coverage, you got to win your leverage and
and so poor. You know, Dane was like a little puppy dog. He'd be like, all right, we want to cover again, and he'd be covering both guys back to back. But you know, those were you know, moments where I looked at like Tom was building chemistry with these young guys.
And then the season rolled around in it, I think it showed like I don't think anybody in the league expected, you know, this matchup nightmare because the reality was and looking back, I know more now, but as a second year player, you don't understand like the matchups that it created on teams. It was, you know, usually you put two tight ends in a game, the defense is gonna put three linebackers in the game and four dbs. Well,
once they realized we were thrown with these guys. Now they're putting two linebackers in the game and five dbs, and we were like, well, screw it. If they do that, we're just gonna run the ball because both of them were great blockers. And it was this constant mismatch, like, okay, we put that. We called it Detroit personnel. Two tight ends, two receivers, and a half back. You put that person on the field and you just wait to see what
the defense does. All right, did they put regular defense, which is like the four down lineman, the three linebackers and the four dbs. All right, well, now we're gonna spread them out. We're gonna throw it because one of those linebackers is gonna have to cover one of these tight ends. And so we'd put you know, Rob on these seam routes, Aaron would be on these little routes underneath,
and it became a mismatched nightmare. And then immediately when they would sub in the nickel defense, they take a linebacker out. Now we would just put them down and run we called outside zone, you know, with the full back slash tight end blocking the extra linebacker which is now a dB, and they would just block till the
cows came home. And I think that was the unique part of it was they were both great pass catchers, but they both could block, I mean, just as well as you know, any other tight end in the league.
Paul, you've historically always talked about the games that the Patriot should win that they weren't in. But one of the great what ifs that I don't think it's a lot of attention here in New England is on that eleven team, what if Gronkowski doesn't get hurt in the AFC Championship game. You know, look, I'm surprised because I don't think that was no disrespect to great Patriots team, which stunned that they were actually favored against the Giants
who beat you in Foxborough that year. But a healthy Gronk, with a healthy Welker and a healthy Hernandez that that game was so close that a healthy Gronk I think, don't you think?
Yeah? I totally do.
And to you a point, like all the stuff that Brian's talking about, offensively was why that team was in the correct The Super Bowl was one of the weaker Patriots defenses, yes, certainly of any of the Super Bowl era, right, And you have to think if if you have Gronk and it took the Giants a little while to figure out he wasn't himself, right, you know, I think you even hear that in one of the one of the micd ups. You know, he's just a decoy out there.
If Rob is healthy, you know, how does that? How how different does that?
I mean I look at Rob as clearly you know, to me, having played with them, maybe I'm a little biased, but the greatest tight end of all time, not only because of his size, speed and when you think of tight end's ability to run routes and catch, but because he was such a great blocker. The teams had to honor that. And I think that's what made him so dynamic. Was you know, we look at Travis Kelcey today, phenomenal
tight end, but clearly Travis isn't blocking anything. Rob would blow like he was the right tackle, and so that allowed you to do so many things that you could put eleven personnel in the game, but really it was like, you know, and eleven personnel is one tight end through receivers and a half back, but really you're still kind of in you know, a full back mentality, tight end mentality blocking and you could run which a lot of back then a lot of teams weren't running the ball
from those formations. And so Rob, I mean really changed the game in that matter because he was aligneman who was the premier pass catcher at the same time. So you know, him being healthy in that game and being able to threaten their defense with the vertical passing game, you know, probably would have helped. I never liked to look back and say what if, because there's you know, so many plays in a game, so many players playing, but Rob obviously was you know, a critical part of that team.
Question.
So you go to Cleveland in twelve, right, yep?
Thirteen, Uh, okay, yep.
At some point time as you're apprenticing under Tom, you're learning all this, it's got to be in your mind. It's time for me to see if I can start. Sure, here gets your opportunity to do that. We're talking about what is and should have and stuff like that, as far as we'll h in that Super Bowl? Do you think at all about what is and should is? You guys are rolling a little bit before the Pittsburgh game. Yep, you know, does that one come to you know, if I don't get hurt?
Ye, I wonder if.
Yeah, that's that's probably when I look back at my career and even more so being a Cleveland kid who grew up and getting finally a chance, you know, like you said, back up, Tom for three years, go to a super Bowl, don't win the Super Bowl, you know, get released the next year, out of football for ten weeks, and then now here I am on my hometown team, get a chance to start, win two games. There's a night game, big game, you know, there's a lot of
hype and tear my aco. I think that's probably if I look at back at like if I could say, there's one huge what if? Now, granted I end up rehabiting and coming back and being the starter again, there the next year, but you know, you just remember, like our coaches got fired after that year because we didn't
win another game. And you know, so for me, that's probably like when I look back, like you know, we talk about like branch realities and multiverse and all that stuff, like maybe somewhere in some you know, reality, I didn't get hurt and end up staying there and maybe don't go to nine different teams. But you know, if everything works out for a reason, if I was still playing there, then I went and came back here in seventeen and won a Super Bowl.
So what do you consider your best season?
Oddly enough of me playing you know, when statistically looking you probably look at Houston as my best year. It was that I only ended up playing like nine full games due to injury and actually.
Getting benched nineteen touchdowns.
Yeah, and so that was great. But I look at the stretch I had in Chicago, and that was with a guy offensive coordinator, Dallala Loggins, who had a little influence from this tree, the Patriots tree, but also he was with me in Cleveland with Kyle Shannan, and he kind of melded those two systems together. And I think I had four or five games in a row, three hundred yards passing at least two touchdowns in every game, and then of course again of what if break break
my forum on a Thursday night game. Those those Thursday night games weren't very very.
There's no injury problem here. We're going to change the kickoff, Matt.
So you know, that was probably my best stretch, I think statistically. You know, Houston was a crazy year because I start Week one and then somehow after, you know, battling for the job on hard knocks, you know, I get bench for a Ryan Mallet and then it doesn't work out with him. I come back in, we go to the playoffs and then self admittedly play like the worst game in my entire athletic career, going back to
like first grade. You know, it was just one of those days things weren't working and then that was it. And I think that's the reality of like a guy like me in the NFL. You come in undrafted, you don't have a lot of hype behind you, and anytime you falter, they're like, well that's why, that's why. And so I'm thankful that I was able to have the career I have, But you know, if you're a first round pick, you're gonna get multip opportunities because that's why
you were a first round pick. So I mean, that's just the way the cookie crumbles and you learn how to work the business side of it. But yeah, probably Houston was probably my best year, which that was reuniting with Bill O'Brien in this system and knowing you know, kind of that.
Brian you talk about you talked earlier about parent your son's in seventh grade, you know, maybe has a little bit more of a realization about what it was that you were doing, what you were going through, just from a parenting and a teaching standpoint, the fact that you were in Pittsburgh, Arizona, San Francisco, Chicago, three tours with New England, Like, is that a good teachable moment for your kids? Like, who knows what they're gonna do, But you know what that'd be resilient in.
Life, Babe, Yeah, I know.
That's the thing. Is what I try to relate to them is you know, you said resiliency, you know, dealing with adversity, and look, I know I'm talking about playing
in the NFL. I know that people have a lot of different you know, things that they deal with, but those are Mary Pratz, right, those are yeah, but my kids, I mean they've lived in the military, right, so but I think, you know, it teaches you that, you know, things aren't always going to go your way in life, and you have to figure out how to you know,
work your way through those times. And you know, I was always grateful that I always had the opportunity to come back here because after being in all those places, I craved the culture of New England. I craved the tough we're gonna make We're gonna do everything we can to win. And sure were there days that were miserable that we all kind of came in after practice and
was like like I don't want to go to this meeting. Yeah, But I also after being on teams that you know, it was fun on Wednesday, it was fun on Thursday, it was fun on Friday, but Sunday rolled around and you got your butt kicked. Like I was thankful to come back to this culture and be around guys that you know, I kind of started my career with, and now they had become like the leaders of the team,
like the mccordy's. Obviously Tom was still here, but you know, Julian high Tower, you know, guys like that, David Andrews, you know the guys who you know, they got it and it was I was excited to be back. So you know, you never know what path you're going to take. And you know, everyone always jokes like success is kind of like always upward. It's it's up and it's down, and you know, so just like my career, there's highs and lows, and you know, I wouldn't change a thing.
I think along the way. I always tell my agent this, Like, you know, at every fork in the road, I always felt like we made the right decision.
That's great.
I hope I am not screwing this up. One more kid question. When you were traded back here was that Halloween?
It was Halloween night. I remember being there.
You got this isn't I mean? We want to talk about we're dad's you know, you remember going out trick or treating with your kids. Okay, he's in the NFL. It's a little bit different, but at the end of the day, still a dad. You're traded back to Hey, we're going back to New England.
This is great. Tell us a story.
So I remember leaving the facilities in San Francisco that day and I was like, all right, see tomorrow, Kyle, See tomorrow. And I think might have been the day before Halloween because we had to go get the costume. And so I got home, took my son to like the Spear Halloween store, get his costume, get to the checkout line, get to the car, and Kyle calls me back and he's like, Hey, we're going to trade you
back to New England. And I was like what He's like, Yeah, they offered to trade us, Jimmy, and as part of the deal, like they need a backup quarterback, so like, you know, we're going to trade you back to New England. And I just remember being in shock because you know, I thought i'd seen it all at that point, but I'd never been a part of a trade. And the way it worked out, it wasn't like they agreed to release me and I could sign here and because of
comp picks and things like that. But I remember having to like go home and like break that to my wife because we had moved, but we had never moved in the middle of this season, and I was like, all right, so I'm gonna have to go to New England on Tuesday night, and then I remember it was the bye week here, so I practiced, stayed an extra day, met with Jerry Schaplinsky, who was the quarterback coach, met
with Josh a little bit. All the players went to their you know whatever they were doing for the bye week. I flew back to California. We got the biggest suitcase I because, by the way, Bill's like, hey, We're playing in Mexico City in two weeks, so I hope you
have a passport, and did you Yeah? I did, And so I packed as much stuff as I could, took the red Is on Saturday night, came home or came here Sunday, landed Sunday morning, went and saw three different houses, picked one, went to her to school and being the school that my kids still go to this day. And you know, it was a whirlwind, you know week. But that's I mean, look, like I said, I know that
we're privileged. This is the NFL, so not comparing it to other people's situations, but that was a week that took a huge toll in my family and my wife and and you know, I couldn't have done the career that I had without her and her support, and thankfully we were you know, we met when we were in high school, so we had a strong foundation and and you know, but in a way it made our kids,
you know, kind of mature and deal. And so my son we went out to Vegas last year and he goes to baseball practice with a bunch of kids that he doesn't know, and by the end they're all laughing and he's he's immediately so he knows how to adapt. And so there's positives andatives to all sides of it.
Did you get to trick or treat?
No? No.
Well, I remember being like waiting for the deal to be worked out and Bill calls me. He's like, look, are are you gonna get here or what. I'm like, Bill, I'm just waiting for like the airline ticket. I got a bagpock in my car. I was at the kids like Halloween party at school, and I'm like, I'm just waiting for like the ticket.
That's so I'm not going to ask you the question about the Eagles Super Bowl in seventeen.
We'll gloss over that not only anyone knows anyways.
Okay, so in twenty eighteen, obviously you're part of your championship season. For you, I want to go before that to the Kansas City game in the AFC Championship game and just what it was like. Because for Matt and I, you know, again there's you know, that same theme of us being around. Sure, we've both been around for all of these Super Bowls, so we've gotten a chance. That
one stands out for us. That Kansas City AFC Championship game was one of the greatest games that I've seen, and I just want to know what it was like from your perspective watching that overtime drive.
Yeah, I mean me, I think that's my favorite game as a Patriot ever. Love to hear that because in a way, looking back, that really was the Super Bowl in my in my opinion, I know, we had to go the next week and beat the Rams, and the defense played an incredible game, but to go into Kansas City, it's like, you know, minus five degrees, no one's given
us a chance to win. And the effort that everybody put in that week to that game to then get, like you said, get to this overtime win, I think, and you see it on our faces running on the field. I think it was kind of a true, Like we're getting goosebumps talking about it like a true like us against the world moment. No one was there to support us other than the guys on that sideline. No one in this everyone in the stands, you know, wanted us
to lose. Really, everybody kind of wanted this changing of the guard. Here's Mahomes, you know they're going to beat the Patriots, and it was kind of like against all odds type thing, and so fittingly comes down to this two minute drive where here's Tom and the famous you know Julian quote or too old at his age, and you know, methodically drives us down and win with a touchdown. I mean, it's to me, it was like the ultimate
team win. And when I always think of my time with the Patriots, it was always the best teams that I've been on. And I'm not just saying because we were the most talented or had the best coaching staff. I'm talking about the group of men that were in the room, and we were so close knit as a team.
And like I said, I think you see that when you see on the field, and I think it's I'm right behind Kyle van Noy and Tom's jumping into Kyle's arms, and it was like it was like this moment, like this is this is we have to go win the next week because this game was so important and so critical to that and the belief that it gave I think everybody in that team and.
Look fortunately for the rules and everything like that coin toss. You win, you know you're getting the ball as you're sitting there and you're seeing you know, the personnel, everything like that, Is there any doubt in your mind? You guys are going down and scoring.
At that point in time, it was kind of like a member. It was kind of like a back and forth. You were just hoping you got the ball. And I think at that point it was like the thing that always I always looked back was they I couldn't imagine. I couldn't believe that they couldn't cover Julian because really we ran the same play from both sides and we had this little motion and kind of and you were like when they when he hit those two plays, you're like, man,
we're in the driver's seat. We just got to go and not make any mistakes. And you know we had I think we had running with Rex.
Ye a touchdown, so but three third and tens right, and.
You know it was a play called China, and it meant like a shoot and an inn the ch for shooting and in and and I'm like, all right, well it worked once and usually sometimes as a quarterback you kind of like get to the point where like, all right, we just ran that play like there's no way it's going to work again. And you know that was just Tom basically, you know, dropping back seeing the coverage and
here comes Julian. You know, several times I think, I don't know if Hogan had a great catch on that drive, but had right regulation, Yeah, it was kind of a similar play. But clearly, you know, this is the greatness of Tom and Josh and all those guys working together. They were having trouble cover in the middle of the field and so just continue to expose it until they fix it. And you know they didn't fix it in time, and luckily for us, you know, I was able to take us down and win that game.
So Paul brings up and I think a lot of Patriot fans would agree, spoiled, Yes, first world problems.
What's the best game?
Interesting to hear that you say that, but you got to go when you got to beat the Rams in Atlanta, and I'm not sure that fans quite know the role that you played that week and your experience with McVeigh and that system. Talk a little bit about what how you saw your role that week as getting ready to play the Rams.
Yeah, I mean as a backup quarterback, you always prepare to play. We talked about that earlier. But the reality is, like, you know, Tom's healthy. I mean, could something happen in the game, yes, But you know, for me, I always think like how can I you know, especially at this this, you know, the last game of the year of the Super Bowl, Like what am I going to do to
contribute to the team to help them win? And because I was a veteran guy as a backup and had played in a lot of places, I always had great conversations with Devin and Jason and high Tower and Gilmore, And you know, when I would we would play a team that maybe it was a system that I was in and I'm running the scout team, I'm like, hey, listen, this is how they're teaching these quarterbacks, this is what
they're looking at. And I'll never forget, like get into the hotel in Atlanta and you know, you practice a week before you travel, and I'm like, all right, some of these plays are similar to what I ran with Kyle, who obviously influenced Sean. And I remember, you know, being in the hotel room. I'm like, cause you have to have an off day, even though you're traveling there for the super Bowl, it's an off day and you know your family's not there yet, and so you kind of
hunkered out in the hotel. And I saw a thing on like Yahoo. It's like here's and it's like kind of they did like a hard Knock show, but it was on Amazon, and here's like some clips from the year that the Rams did, you know, miked up and and I'm listening to like the play call that they have on these clips from training camp, and I'm like, well,
I know that play. I run that play before. And as the week went on, I kept watching more and more of their film and being like, I know the offense that they're gonna run and having meetings with Bill and Map and was Matt still there or was it Flow Flow Yeah, and being like listen, I know, you know, they don't really have an answer for this. They don't really have you know, if you bring this pressure. You know, they have to throw hot things like that, and you know,
so I took a lot of pride in that. And one of the like my prodest moments was after the Super Bowl Devin and Jason kind of talking that to the media and being like we were on it. We we had a great feeling because Brian gave us a great look. He sat there and talked about, you know, their their offensive system, and you know, that was a way for me to feel like I actually contributed in some way because I never stepped on the field, but you know, you got to do whatever you can to
help the team win. So, you know, something that I was proud of and fortunate of having been in those systems. I could relate that to those guys.
So when you show your kids your Super Bowl ring, Yeah, any kid goes, oh, that's a nice RNK deb But you didn't play. Well, hold on for a second, you're right, I didn't play.
That's the one I came up with a defensive game plan.
However, however, and like that's that's the power of team, right, isn't it.
Yeah, And that's what I would always say about the Patriots. We always had the best team, and I'm talking about the relationships closeness. There's nothing ever been comparable to the locker room that I had, especially as I got older. I mean it was great as a young guy, but as an older player, you appreciated even more. And you know, they did a great job. In seventeen eighteen nineteen, we did these things in the offseason called like the team of Teams, and it was a way for you to
bond with other players on the team. And so there'd be like two offensive players, two defensive players, maybe a special teams player, a coach, a trainer, a football ops guy. And we did these like challenges. So like we'd have field day out on the out on the field and be like the egg toss or the frisbee throw or you know, a sack race, or one day we went
down to Fenway. I remember we did this great like baseball challenge and one day we'd paintballing And it was a way for you to connect with guys that you're not always sitting there every day with in the meetings. And that's where I felt like you had this closeness.
You know, I go in and sit with the DBS at lunch one day, and the next day I'd sit with the linemen, and you had these relationships with guys where in all, honestly, it was almost closer than some of the college's college teams, where you're spending all this time with these guys because we all go home to our families, but when you came in here, it was like your second family in true you know, And I'm not just saying that like as clichey.
See he glossed over that. Do you see what he did there before? The whole thing. Bill doesn't deserve the credit.
For that, right right, right right that he gets right right, this guy right right When you came back again third time in twenty twenty, was there a hint of disappointment when they end up signing Cam, Yeah, definitely.
I mean, well, that whole scenario is so in twenty nineteen, you know, Bill comes to me obviously that was Sidham's rookie year, and he says, look like, we got to manage this roster.
A little bit.
Are you okay with like kind of waiting you know, we'll let you go and we'll resign you after the first week. And I was like, sure, like you know, I love you know, being a part of this organization and and all of a sudden, my agent calls me. He's like, hey, Indianapolis is offering you a great deal. And I was like, I felt torn, but it was an opportunity that I looked at like.
In the long run, this will pretty good money.
Yeah, yeah, great, it was a great deal. And so in a way, I kind of thought like I never really left, you know, so like Thirdston, I was gone for four months and then I was right back, and with Tom moving on, I'm like, wow, this is my opportunity. And so I remember training like the hardest, and this was during COVID and and trying to train on your own and trying to be as prepared as I could.
And you know, so obviously I was disappointed when they signed Cam because that was like something I had always dreamt of. You know, I had started for all these other teams, but I had never really played for the Patriots, the one team that I kind of considered myself that was the team that was my team. So it was it was disappointing, but like I said, you know, it's not something that I had never lived through before, and you try to navigate it the best you can.
I mean, obviously people will look at when Tom left and there's clearly a void on the field. You saw some of the ups and downs that happened after that. It wasn't just on the field where that void was felt. I assume that that was felt in the locker room, and it probably was difficult and challenging for someone like you. By Paul mentioned this earlier, you saw when things were
going really well, so a Devin, So it Matt. People like that when things aren't going well and you guys are some of the leaders and everything, like how do you try to sit there and recapture what you know is.
The right way to do things?
You know what winning football is, and yet that's not happening on the field. Yeah, that had to be just tremendously frustrating.
It was, And I think twenty twenty was such a unique situation because of the COVID year, because of like what you were allowed to do. Obviously, you know, cam in late and there's no real training camp, and it was just it was a it was an odd year
all the way around. And so you know, next year it was like, Okay, we're getting back to like what you know, at least to me, felt similar to what it was obviously was different with our team routine routine, and and then Matt comes in and I remember thinking, like, God, they have to be like telling the guy, like where what to do out here a practice because he was learning so quickly that I was like, I've never seen
a rookie pick up a system like this. And it became pretty apparent that he was going to be the starter. And I truly, you know, my time with Cam was
was great. I came to you know, really know him and appreciate him for what he was, and he was hilarious and he was great in meetings and and so I know like his time here was kind of you know, looked at like it wasn't really you know, a success, but he he impacted a lot of guys and we would there was things that Cam did and sayings that he would say that carried with us after even he
was not here anymore. And so, you know, I really enjoyed and I've had a lot of experiences like that, like kind of these polarizing figures, you know, Cam Newton, or when I was in Chicago with Jay Cutler, people were always like, well, what was that like? And I was like I really enjoyed it because you got to see a personality of someone who from Afar you don't really know, like what's the deal. And so being in a room with Cam for a year and a half
really it was always made me smile. So it was it was that was kind of cool opportunity about that. But you know, you get to twenty twenty one where you know, Mac ends up winning the job and and you kind of get back to like what I thought was really, you know what we had always done the Patriot way, and I mean, for lack of a better term, but but there was also a new energy with some of the newer guys like Kendrick Bourne, Judaon Mills, Hunter Henry and so it kind of was a new flavor.
And really that was one of my more enjoyable years playing here because it was kind of like in a sense of changing of the guard, but we were still playing good football.
So Cam was great with us, by the way, Yeah he was.
Also he was it was you know, on field obviously probably not up to you know what he had become accustomed to.
It seemed like a good teammate.
Yeah, well he was great.
Gat It was great to deal with and we all joke about like the nicknames and stuff, and like some of those nicknames lasted with guys well passed fantastic when Cam was gone. He was a great to night and a great, a great guy.
So you got a chance to play again the following year. I was at twenty two when I got twenty against So again it's like this kind of blessing curse at the same time, great career and every time you sort of get a chance to get it in the spotlight, something happens.
It just has to be we did.
That was rushed. I mean I remember being emotional about that one because it was like, you know, I got to play, a chance to play in twenty twenty, but that was the whole.
Like co COVID, that was a mess.
We found out on Saturday, then the game got plays flew in on the day of and not making excuses, it was just it was odd. It was one of the most odd experiences I ever had. And so this time in twenty twenty two, you know, here it is
like Max Hurt. You're gonna play, full week of practice, have a really good drive to start the game, things going well, and then boom, you're out and that was to me was like, man, that was probably my last chance to really play for the team that I love, and so that was that was a a tough.
One, last one for me here, Brian. Is I hear you say that the team that I love, and we talked about, you know a little bit about some of the other places you want and everything like that. We call this the Patch from the Past podcast. Do you identify as a Patriot?
Yeah, one hundred percent. I was kind of thinking, I figured you'd ask me this on and so I was thinking, you know, I was here some former fashion ten years out of my fifteen, which is kind of crazy to think when you hear like, oh he was on this many teams, but you know, nine to twelve and a training camp and then seventeen eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty two. I mean, so my kids are from here.
You know, we've kind of made this our home. And you know, when I look at my career, although I played the least on this team, I also kind of look at myself like this is that's who I am. And I had a lot of great memories other places, but I've had the best memories here.
So I do want to ask you about coming off the bench last year, you know, in Vegas, and what that was like too. So to rally the troops after Jimmy went down.
Yeah, that was a I'm thinking to myself, of all the times to get thrust into a game, this is the one. And and Jimmy got hurt, like right before halftime and kind of toughed it out a little bit, and I'm like, oh, kind of similar, like he got hurt, but then he went back out. He played a few snaps like oh, he's probably okay, and then they take him in They're like, listen, we got to tame him
the hospital. I'm like, all right, here we go. And and you know, of all teams to go against, I'm like, well, I know this team, I know this defense, and I know our offense really well.
And so I was like, all right, I'm just gonna go out there and I'm throwing a bomb.
Well, that play we developed against our defense in training camp a few years because there was a lot of times where we call play and Devin had seen it so many times that they would teach him to rob the guy who which was Julian at the time, our number three receiver, running a speedo and so I'm like, oh God, here we go. This is the play. And we made adjustment to put the outside guy on a deep route in case they did that. So I remember
getting the snap. I kind of knew that down a distance it could be that defense, and all I watched was Peppers, and as soon as he went down, I don't even know if I looked to Trey, who I was throwing the ball to, I'm like, I know that area of the field is exposed, and sure enough, that kind of got the jitters out, and then you just go play football. And then you know, as the game's going on, I'm realizing, like, just don't screw it up,
you know. I mean, we're winning, we're kicking some field goals, that our defense is doing pretty well. But I remember the feeling I had after that game of like just bittersweet because I remember going up to my team and the guys that I love, the guys that I consider brothers, and I could just see how dejected they were. I know, I knew, you know, based on staying in touch with them,
how tough of a year it was. And so I was elated because it was kind of vindication for me to come back and beat the team after being told basically to go retire, and I felt great, but I also it hurt my heart to see these like I'll never forget David Andrews just being like exhausted and you know, beaten down or Slater and and all those guys, and so it was kind of like a mix of mixed emotions and looking back, I should have just you know, been done after that game and been like, all right,
you know, I did my part, you know, because the rest of the year for us was it was downhill. But it's something that you know, it goes down as like a as a great memory, but also like a bittersweet one too.
I mean, he said it. We're professional athletes. I'm not looking for anything specially anything like that. But let's not forget they're.
Human beings too. Yeah, they're human beings, and.
To and to hear like, wow, this is great for me individually. Oh shoot, you know, these are my guys and they're going through a tough time and I just helped extend that tough time.
You know.
Really interesting.
Fran, Thanks for the time.
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