This is Patriots Playbook. The legend. Sometimes you need to be hit up the side of the head with an idiot stick to realize it. Right, you know, coming into the stadium today, what did they do to the parking? What is the deal?
I don't know.
There's always something going on here.
They finally find a job they could give them. Alik comming home, you make a very good point. Shocking. Did I just say that about him? You coulda bet me any amount of money that we would not get the word for tada into the show today.
Now here's your host of Patriots Playbook, John Rook.
What are the words can we try to get into the show today? Sucky? Sucky? Sucky? Would that be a good one today? I don't know. I'm just just kind of wondering, you.
Know, Wow, I think it's funny how a lot of people call it Sunshine dot com. You know that. And for the first forty minutes of PU we discussed a real cash spending and how where the Patriots rank. And now that's how we start this show. So shove that in your Sunshine dot com by.
Dot com pipe right exactly. I you know, I wanted to come in at least kind of start off today and and have something to rant and rave about. But I'm kind of at the point where I'm kind of like, it's just it's it's not it's not purposeful. You know, it's just not it's not solving anything. I'm I'm you know, we we've been so blessed. I've said this so many times. We've been so blessed to have covered this team as
we have in this venue, in this particular program. And you know this, you know dot Com Radio era that we've had over twenty two years now, twenty three years now, to have had a championship caliber, championship level football team.
And then this year we're experiencing what Patriots fans, for lack of you know, for better, for worse, what Patriots fans experienced back in the nineteen eighties, some of the nineteen a little bit in the seven certainly in the sixties, you know, when they were even still the Boston Patriots. You know, I've told the story several times that the last really just what is it worth? Season? You know,
why are we doing this season? That I remember going through was the year that I did Rod Rust's TV show, and you know, we only did three shows during the year, because there's just no way we were filling in the kind of a content that you would need to do a weekly show for a team that in a program that was one in fifteen three. Yeah, and so I'm just like, you know, I want to try to put things in a little bit of perspective. But at the same time, there is a little part of me that says, well,
so what are we going to do about this? And we're caught in another world that I'm just not sure we're going to be able to extract ourselves from, you know, at least for the foreseeable future. So I think, you know, what does it mean in the big picture? We all want to know what it means in the big picture? How much? How much more are we going on here? You know that kind of thing. Like Bill is famous to say, I I don't know. I can't answer that question.
So there is another part of me that decided, today maybe we just put blinders on and go week to week, just like you know they allegedly do on game plans. I mean, this is Washington week, and what's the over under on me slipping and calling them the Redskins today? I said, that's I'm not going to count that one. That doesn't count. I think I set my own number this morning at one and a Hay, that's a would you go over or under?
I'm gonna go under. I believe in you, you believe in I think I could go.
I'd go over.
I think the Commanders is easier for a lot of people than the Los Angeles Chargers. For some reason, this San Diego Chargers.
I see, but see I go even worse than that when I see LA C I call them the Los Angeles Clippers.
Oh yeah, that's fair.
Because that's what they were when I was in the NBA, they were LA Clippers.
Yeah that's fair.
So I'm you know, I don't know. I'm kind of just sort of bamboozled.
Yeah, that's fair.
Non plussed.
I don't know what that means, but I'm sure. I'm sure it's true.
You google it. I just I think it means that you're just confused more than anything else, not sure which way to go. Are you at all surprised? I mean, I'm not on the trade deadline. I'm not surprised that this team did nothing, because there's a part of me this is well, sure, you know, if you've got tradable commodities, why don't you get rid of him? But as Bill warned us, it takes two to make a trade. And then on top of that, you're two and six. You're
literally the worst team in the AFC. Right now, Who the hell do you have that somebody else wants?
Yeah, I thought, look, you know, obviously those players that everybody keeps talking about from the twenty twenty draft class J dugger on when you uh, those guys, I think probably had a little bit of interest, especially Oocha. But I also wondered if some teams would have been interested in a hunter Henry Zeke Elliott.
It was my understanding that Elliott did have several tire kickers. Yeah, I'm not sure why. I guess there just wasn't a compensation offered.
Yeah, I mean we're talking about pick swaps late, like you're not giving up.
Any you're not really giving up anything.
Anybody could have had him for like six months, you know, and whatever it was, and and know, you know, the Patriots signed him in the middle of August.
Was he worth an extra six or seventh thrown pick, because that's probably what they were getting.
I think in Elliott's case, if they did get those I think there's been some conflicting reports on whether or not they did get calls on Zeke or not. But if they did, if they had had some younger backs that they wanted to try to integrate into the offense or maybe get a look at, like Kevin Harris or Pierre Strong was still here or something like that, then maybe you make that trade. But right now the only backs that you play are Remandre and Zeke, Like that's all,
that's all you got. So I did to give one of those guys up have been tough, but I'm not surprised. I think the one thing and I that I agree with that seems to be like the the big hysteria or the big take on the deadline and is you do have to pick a lane. Either you're you're you're hitting the red button and you're starting all over yeah, or you're trying you think that this is worth trying
to build with. And the one thing, and I'm not this isn't trying to come at it as like rose colored glasses or or anything like that, is I'm not waving pom poms, but I don't necessarily think they're as bad as as two and six. They're not a good team. Like, don't get me wrong, but they've played one of the hardest schedules in the NFL. They did, and they played a lot of teams that are established Super Bowl contenders that they got whooped by. Like, there's no there's no doubt about it.
Going short because we've knew going in they weren't going to be at that level.
Yeah, and I think a lot of us knew that the opening, this opening stretch, this first half of the season was gonna be difficult. Now coming up in the second and I get that. No, there's no pencilvan wins anymore with this team, Like I'm not telling you that they're penciling in wins by any means. But now you get the Washington's, the Indies, the Giants who are not very good right now, Denver.
Pitching games more on your level.
Yeah, you got the team. The softer part I hate that term, but the softer part of your schedule is now into the really other than like Kansas City Buffalo, and maybe if the Jets, you know, continue to play decently well or by that point he might be back Garret Rodgers might be playing in that that we gave kighteen game against the Patriots, so regardless, the point being is that did I think they would be two and six at this point. No, but I didn't really feel
like they would be that much better. Like maybe they were four and four and or you know, three and five, but I really didn't think that they would be that much better.
Here's the thing about four and four. You bring up four and four, let's just say that they are four and four and those two wins. Maybe they managed to squeeze one out in an upset over the Eagles, and maybe they beat the Dolphins a week two, and this team is four and four right now. Yeah, you'd still
be screaming. You'd still hear screaming from fans, you'd still be hearing screaming and criticism from the media because it's kind of like, well, they can beat Philadelphia, they can beat Miami, and they still lose like that to New Orleans, or they're just four and four. Shouldn't they be five
and three or six and two. I mean, I feel like there'd still be complaints to be had here, and I think we've become conditioned to naturally complain when this team falls short of Sometimes over inflated expectations.
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that there were a couple of games based off of how they unfolded. I can see where you got to like Philly in Miami. But in my head going into the season, I thought that they would have a good chance to beat the Raiders, which I guess ultimately they kind of did. It was a one possession game. And then I thought that they would beat New Orleans here at home.
I also thought they would be right.
So so those were the two games that swung and and then one of them being a thirty four to nothing shell acking here really made it. It's sweet. Yes, So if you look at the other games they've played this season, and again this is not like to try to act like, oh, actually they're really good and they're going to be a good team. But all the other games have been really one score games, right like they you know all the other it's just those two blowouts that that you look at.
It sort of unevens the playing field.
Yeah, I mean, they lost twouns.
They were so egregious. And then when you add on the injuries of late est, specially Kendrick Bourne being the latest one to go down this weekend. Then it's kind of like, Wow, where's the hope. Yeah, and you've still got, oh my goodness, nine games, you know, nine games left to play.
Yeah, I think the hope and and it's a good question. I think for me, if you're a Patriots fan, and look, we have a lot of great listeners that are gonna watch and follow and thank god listen to us, even if they're not good. If you're those people, I think, what you have to do. And this is sort of my theme of the whole week here. The next nine games is more about deciding who you want to keep on this roster and who you don't. So it's basically
it's what I'm saying, it's an individual player basis. Now we're evaluating the individual players on the roster. So I wouldn't get too caught up in wins and losses, because
at this point that that probably is is irrelevant. It's more about is Mac Jones your quarterback of the future in my opinion, you have he has nine games to make the case that they should continue to roll with him next season, and if he plays like he's been playing outside of the Buffalo game, but on the on the on the whole for the season, the other seven
games of the year. If he plays like that and they are picking in the top ten in the draft, they should be looking at quarterbacks, you would think if they if he plays like he did against Buffalo for the better half of the second half of the season, then then maybe it's a different conversation. And so it starts with the quarterback, but it's not just the quarterback, like deciding on your pending free agents, like is Kyle Dugger going to be here? Is Big Mike going to
be here? Is josh Ucca going to be here? Is Hunter Henry going to be here? Like all these guys that are coming up on the end of their contracts that you might have some interest in keeping already. Now is the time for these people and these players to start making a case for being on the twenty twenty four Patriots. So I think that that's if you're a fan of this team and you're looking at what is it that I'm supposed to cling on to, it's there.
They're probably not going to turn it around, Like they're probably not going to win ten straight games and turn it around. I would just have to.
Say I was just gonna say could you see in any scenario this team performing like said the Detroit Lions did a year ago.
So I've been clinging to that the Detroit Lions. A good example. The one I always came back to was the twenty one Miami Dolphins who lost seven in a row. They are one and seven, They lost seven in a row, and they won eight of their last nine games, and they finished the year nine and eight, and they just missed the playoffs. They just missed the playoffs because Pittsburgh tied a game. Okay, so they the nine to seven and one Steelers went to the playoffs over the nine
and eight Miami Dolphins. So it's been done, right, Like I'm not, it's been done.
Is it statistically possible yes?
Yeah?
Is it likely?
No? But I would say that I for better or worse, because I know some fans are gonna hear this and say, well, they should be tanking and they should losing, and what good doesn't date what what good does it do to be seven and ten? And I don't necessarily disagree on for the most part.
Those stupid NBA teams that tanked, you know, the Houston Rockets tanked for Ralph Sampson, and a chem Olajo on it. Yeah, I mean that's just that, just that brought sports to a completely different level. Because athletes don't tank. Yeah, they can't. It is against their very fiber of their very being to go out and perform and not compete at a high level. You cannot do it. You cannot tell me otherwise.
The tanking part of it, the dropping, the losing purposely, whatever you want to say, that comes from decisions being made way above their heads and playing people out on the floor. I mean, I know in Houston's case, when I was in the NBA and the Rockets tanked, uh, to be able to you know, bring in a cheam, Ralph Sampson, that whole group, you know, back during that time, it was because they refuse to play anybody but you know, five year old Elvin Hayes. Yeah, I mean that was
basically it. That's why they did what they did. So, you know, and that was a management decision. The guys are going out there and busting tail all the time, but it was a management decision to play these guys
because we don't want to risk anybody else. And so if Bill Belichick or mister Kraft said, okay, play all these guys, or don't play any of these guys, or look, I can understand from one point of view them saying, as you already suggested, this is really all about who we want to keep for next year because we know there's going to be an increased cap space and we're going to have extra money. So there's a great opportunity
to rebuild this thing and rebuild it quickly. Who on this team right now can be a part of that. That's part of the evaluating process. So let's play those guys. If you want to call that tanking, then it's tanking, yeah, but it's not really tanking.
Right, And so I the Lions are a good example, and I think that Dolphins team is a good example. Now, the Dolphins team changed coaches, fired Brian Flores at the end of that year, and hired Mike McDaniel, and then they traded for Tyreek Hill and the rest is history. Right now, they're one of the best teams in the league.
But the general premise is the Lions and the Dolphins stuck with it, right, and they didn't ruin Tua and they didn't ruin Jared Goff and then the Lions had another good draft class, they hit and they had another strong offseason. The Dolphins did what they did down in Miami with Tyreek Hill and Tron Armstead and all these pieces, Bradley Chubb making all these moves, and now those two teams might play in the Super Bowl in February. So
there's other ways to go about it. And if I was the Patriots, and if I was a Patriots fan, the easiest path is forward. The easiest path is that for the rest of the season and that next nine games, mac Jones plays closer to what he did against Buffalo. He looks like a guy that maybe isn't gonna win you games still, but he can win games in this league.
And instead of drafting Drake May in the first round, you're drafting Marvin Harrison junior, right, and you're adding to what you've already had, and I or you're drafting a left tackle or what you know, whatever the case may be. And I think that that's that's also a sound way to go about it. And I hate that everything is just tank tank tank, tank, tank, because that truly is you're starting all over with your entire football.
You can't blow this up. You can't, you don't blow it up. I mean, what do you want to do? You want to go back and be an expansion team. You don't want to do that. Yeah, you've got some value here and you have some players here, and granted, some of your best players are injured and are not coming back this year, so we know all of this. So I think we already know kind of who you want back. But at the same time, you've got a
fifty three man roster to fill out. Yeah, and you definitely have some decision to be made on some of these guys who you could bring back or you decide to let them go and let them try, you know, their their own market in the in free agency, there are a lot of decisions to be made, and the only way you find it out is, yeah, to play them and to find that out. And I think you're right, that's where the small battles need to be learned to be won over the course of the next nine weeks.
Is all right? So you know, hey, we saw some improvement this week from Mac or you know, hey, Ramandre was really running the ball way better, you know, the
last couple of weeks than he ever. Whatever battle you want to pick, you can pick one and that's really kind of where I am on this particular issue, because you know, I heard I was listening to the local sports talk radio, which is, you know, obviously all I can listen to around here, but at the same time, sometimes it gets extraordinarily toxic, as I'm sure you're aware.
And so they were completely going off the rails over the fact, and the callers were off the rails going after the fact that the Patriots didn't make a single move yeah, by the trade deadline at four o'clock yesterday, And my first impression was, well, why would you expect them to. Number one, somebody has been willing to deal
with you. Number two, you gotta have to have you have to have somebody of value to another team, and then they would come to you and say would you take And you know, we heard that there was some tire kicking potentially on you know, Ezekiel Elliott, and certainly some tire kicking on josh Ucha. There might have been one or two others, but there wasn't a whole lot else out there. And it's all right, So we're giving them up for what basically a sock drawer full of doorknobs.
What are we giving them up for.
Yeah, I think josh u j is an interesting one just you know, because the Washington traded their two pass rushers, right, so Montes Sweat and Chase Young, who are better players than Josh Hugh j. They went for a second and a third round pick, which tells you probably at best was maybe worth a fourth at best.
Yeah, at best, probably a fifth, right, And I'm like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I would not do that. I would not trade Mac Jones. I think Mac Jones, know, And that's that's the one that I two calls back to back. You day, I'm listening. I won't name the station, but you can probably guess which one it was. I, you know, and I just have it to be, you know, going by, and people were livid. They were irate. I can't believe you kept Mac.
I can't know. It's just most unbelievably, he sucks. He's dying, you know. And I'm just like people who have no clue are the ones that call into these shows to vehemently voice their opinion. They don't realize what the reprecations are. Now, do I want to keep Mac here for the long term? And say he can be a twenty year player like
Tom Brady. I doubt that that's gonna happen. But until you're ready to move on and find that next piece to the puzzle, you do need to, you know, I think keep him around because right now he's very cost effective.
Yeah, I mean not even that. To me, Trading mac Jones right now is is is trading low like it's giving away.
Unless you could get I don't know what would you take for mac Jones? Would you? You know, first of all, I think I need a quarterback, uh, you know, somehow some well though, I guess you could go with Bailey's Appy and Malie cunning him. But that didn't seem like a hell of a lot right there. To be honest with you, what would you take for him? A third or fourth round pick? That's not good enough. He was a first round pick.
Yeah, no, you just you can't. I you got If you're gonna trade mac Jones, then if that's the plan, Like let's say the plan is they've decided he's not it and we're gonna move on.
If you're the.
Patriots, you you hope that he tears it up in the second half of the season. You hope he tears it up. It will be fake, you know, to you, it will be inflated stats or or against bad defenses or whatever the case may be. And you hope that that value just goes up and up and up and up. But after last year, in the first eight games this year, his value is zero, like you, so why would you? Why would you.
Trade him now, don't you know?
Yeah, it just never made any sense not to mention that they hate all the backup quarterbacks, Like I don't mean person, I just mean they don't think any of them can play. So what was you know, They're not gonna They're not starting Bailey's appy the rest of the year, Like that's just they cut the guy like they clearly think nothing of him as a player, So what what what were they gonna do? And I get people all, well, then they would lose every game and that would be good.
But that's that's not good.
No. All right, before we get back to Washington, because you obviously talked about the two big moves that they made at the traded deadline, I think we need to talk about the eight hundred pound gorilla in the room being Josh McDaniels. Yeah, at one o'clock in the morning Eastern time. You know, he was fired by Mark Davis.
What that's that's a bad organization.
You I was just gonna I'm just getting ready to say it seems to me that they've fired the wrong guy. But you can't fire the owner because he can't get his way out of a paper bag without doing something stupid. And this is stupid. Yeah, Now you don't have to like the way that things have gone. In fact, I don't know too many people who would be Raider fans it would really be enamored with things. But he's not even through his second here yet.
Well, it was it was getting bad there. It was getting talks.
I've heard the stories, just like you know you have and you can read on you know, Twitter, and you can read on you know, various and such.
I thought, I thought Albert Breer had a really good summation of it on MMQB today if you got if you're interested. But it just it had gotten bad in Vegas. But more so than that, you know, I was I was joking with you earlier about these nine to fifteen am Bill Press conferences. So I was up this morning at six fifteen to get to come and listen to Bill talk about the trade deadline not and uh. And I look at my phone and I'm just the Raiders fired Josh McDaniels and Dave's Eagler And then I look
at the tweet and it's a one am timestamp. Yeah, right, And I'm just thinking to myself, I'm like, what a coward thing to do in the middle of the night to do that, and I need Look, it's not just the Raiders, Like teams do this stuff all the time. I remember twenty nineteen Patriots opener against Pittsburgh here and the Patriots had just signed Antonio Brown, I believe the
day before. He didn't play in the game, but the day before, and they had their opener and they beat the Steelers pretty handedly, like they always did with Tom and the Red Sox announced right after, as I was standing in the locker room post game, that they had fired Dave dem Browski and so they clearly it's like when you fire somebody on parade day, right, like you're clearly burying the story. And that's what this reminded me of.
And I guess maybe I'm I'm sensitive more to it because I've covered Josh McDaniels, and I, you know, respect him as a human being, so I wouldn't just do that to somebody. But I know where we're going with this, so I'll refrain.
But no, no, that's quite run. I want you to I want you to be able to tell me how you feel about it, because that's that's kind of leads me into what I was going to ask anyway, And the question would be, you know, do the Patriots still think enough of Josh and or Dave Ziegler to bring one or both of them back within the family fold,
so to speak, and let them work here now. I don't know what they feel about their own personal careers, because I'd be surprised if Josh ever becomes a head coach in the NFL again based on his track record this far. Is this enough for him? Or does he go try the college root or does he try to do something else, or does he go into something completely. I'm just kind of curious to your thoughts on that.
And should the Patriots kick a tire and someone who's very familiar with the inner workings hear and can he make things better?
Yeah? So if it was as simple as will he make us better football? Team yes or no, then I would say yes, right. I think that the one thing that I really would be interested in bringing McDaniels back for is the run game. His run game is fantastic.
And I know that they didn't run the ball particularly well in Vegas this year, but they obviously the rushing champ last year with Josh Jacobs, and in twenty one was by far their best rushing season in probably three or four years, not to mention twenty with Cam Newton,
where they ran the ball like crazy too. But he's always designed a really really good early down run game and play action marrying it together the gap schemes and the full back and all this stuff, and I just I think that they could use that, you know, I think that they could use some help in that regard, because, let's face it, I think that there is something to be said for the fact that Remandre doesn't necessarily look like the same guy in terms of his explosiveness as
compared to last year. But also I don't think that anybody predicted that the Patriots wouldn't be able to run the ball like this, so maybe him and I also know I think he might stay on Bohart agree is taking over as the offensive coordinator, and it sounds like Carmen Brisillo, their offensive line coach, is going to stay
for now with Vegas. But I would be very interest in bringing back Brisillo as well because for all of like the post Scarnekia issues on the offensive line, Brisillo took over as the permanent, like full time offensive line coach in twenty one, but they had good lines in twenty and twenty one under him here, So he's a good line coach. I think he knows what he's doing.
So those those two things, and it was Ziegler, but you know, just quickly with McDaniel's, like you mentioned, like it's if it was that simple, like does he make you a better football team or not, I would probably say yes, he would. He would help, He would help. But I think the problem is is that he there's too many cooks in the kitchen at that point. And I'd also say it kind of undermines Bill O'Brien. Of course it does, Yeah, one hundred percent.
And that's why I asked the question, because if you actually brought Josh in, I don't know, before the end of the year or whatever, Yeah, what does this do to Bill O'Brien and and you know, is that fair? And do you do that to so I don't know. I don't know fair in love Warren football, I don't know.
Yeah, it's definitely fair. And I think if you're Mac Jones, and this would be my biggest concern. Like last year where you had Patricia, Judge, Belichick all these voices in your ear telling you things, it kind of creates a situation where it's like, well, am I listening to Josh or I'm listening to to Bill? Like who's in charge here?
You're defeating the very purpose you're bringing him in for.
Yeah, And I would say that naturally if you're Mac, wouldn't you kind of gravitate towards Josh a little bit? Because that was the best football he was here as a rookie and he played you know, you know, yeah, I'm su right, So I would worry about that.
Now.
I know a lot of people brought up twenty eleven where Josh was fired by the Rams. I think at that point, well, the head coach of the Rams was fired and so he lost his job as the offensive coordinator and he came back to the Patriots in the playoff run in twenty eleven as a consultant to build O'Brien. But Bill O'Brien had already made it known privately that he was going to Penn State, so he was already
one foot out the door at that point. So they brought Josh McDaniels back in eleven knowing he was going to take over in twelve job. Right, So if you're telling me that, internally they know that Bill O'Brien is going to Michigan State next year and he's not going to be here, and then it's just like twenty eleven. But if Bill O'Brien doesn't have another job lined up and the plan is to retain Bill O'Brien, then you can't bring back Josh McDaniels. No, it's just the optics of it don't work.
So that would tell you, you know, if Josh somehow does reappear in the Patriot offices, bill O'Brien ain't gonna be here. That's what I think.
Yeah, I would say so as well. And I think the same thing for Ziegler, just really quickly with him like that was Macroe's former boss, Dave Ziegler was in Macro's chair.
Yeah, and what a position do you put him in?
You're right, And so it's kind of like, you know, Dave Ziegler is like over his shoulder, like just waiting in the wings to to swoop in if macro F's up.
You know.
Yeah, So as much as I think that, as much as I think that that Ziegler could maybe help them, especially on the pro side, I think that's more where his background is is pro personnel. It's it is a sticky situation because Elliott Wolf's here for that, and grow is here for that. And so now you have again similar situation.
All right, But before we move on, I gotta ask you real quickly about the Redskins. Okay, that's one one. Damn, I just did that.
Yeah he did. Hang on, and I hear, I hear. I stood up for you.
I know you did, all right, So that means the next one you lose the bet, all right? Yeah, the Commander's game on Sunday, having traded away arguably two of their best defenders.
Uh.
And I don't know what this says about Sunday's game other than the fact that, well, it's the next game that you gotta win on this list. Otherwise, what happens so, and can anything still happen at this day?
Yeah, So big picture, which team actually cares and wants to win this game is probably gonna win.
This could be about a thirteen to seven special. Yeah.
But that being said, I think the easiest way to do this because let's face it, both these teams are not very good, right, So it's not like I'm coming at it where I think that there's all these matchup minutias to talk about. But my concerns, I think is the easiest way to put it. If you want the Patriots to keep trying to win, my concern would be number one, they still have Jonathan Allen and Doron Payne
coming up the middle. And what we have seen with Mac Jones is that if you get that push up the middle the pocket, he becomes jittery in the pocket. And I'm looking at a rookie at right Garden City so and I'm looking at Cole Strange, who has certainly had his ups and downs in the first two years of the season. And those are two Pro Bowl tackles that are going to be coming right after Mac Jones.
So that concerns me. It does offensively. What concerns me is that Eric b Enemy, the offensive coordinator for the Commanders, is really freaking good at his job. And they run a system that is he runs the Andy Reid system. It's the Andy Reid offense. So that Andy Reid offense, whether it's been Nick Foles with the Eagles in the Super Bowl, Alex Smith, Patrick Mahomes, it hasn't mattered nop. The Patriots have had problems schematically with the Andy Reid offense.
And I think that the Commanders they they are not talent deprived on offense. They have some receivers, you know, Terry mclaurin's a really good receiver. Johan Dotson's kind of coming into his own. Curtis Samuel if he's healthy. I know he left the game last week, so I don't know if he's one hundred percent. Curtis Samuel is a nice gadget player. Logan Thomas is a sneaky good red zone target at tight end. So they don't have you know, they're not one of these teams that has no weapons
and has no talent. And he will put that on top of the fact that they have a really good I mean, they scored thirty one points last week against the Eagles.
Yep, so true.
I am worried a little bit about this game in terms of pressure up the middle, and the enemy is going to have the seventeen you know, the Super Bowl game plan from Philadelphia, the game plans they used in Kansas City against this Patriots defense, and he's going to have all of those those man beaters ready.
You know, then why is Washington three and five?
I think there's a couple of reasons. One of their defense is ve terribly underperformed. I don't even know what the right adjective is. They've vastly underperformed on defense. They're thirty first in the league in scoring defense right now, with a defense that has a talent on the defensive line especially. So that's why they broke up their roster construction, was because they they were built on the defensive line.
You know, those four guys across Young Allen Payne Sweat were making like a combined hundred million dollars and they were thirty first in the league in defense. So they had to break it up from a roster construction standpoint. Offensively, I hate to let, you know, blame it all on him, but Howel's had, you know, been inconsistent, and they've they've.
Had some issues on the offension, Sammy.
Hell yeah, they've had some issues on the offensive line too, but in general they've they've taken h forty one sacks through eight games, so that that's those are some of the reasons why.
They are where they imagine if mac hatt taking forty one.
So the Howel's been sacked forty one times, that's what I mean. Daniel Jones's second.
He'd be a grease spot on the highway.
Daniel Jones' is second with twenty eight so he's been sacked thirteen more times than the next quarterback. Yeah, it's it's not been good.
Thanks buddy anytime. Always appreciated at e Z Lazare on X see. Yeah I didn't say Twitter. There you go. All right, coming up with the pro Ben Vollen from the Boston Global join us. Been standing gook. The commanders for the athletic will join us in a little bit. Russell Baxter now number two on week nine already around the NFL, and Ben joins us here from the Boston Club. Hey, Ben, how are you? Thanks for the time today.
I'm doing a little bit better than Josh mccaniels. Today, I too.
Yeah, you know that that is obviously a part of our conversation today because it's pretty easy to see that, you know, where Josh has had a success, it's been here, And I just I wonder if, you know, the Patriots pick up the phone and place a call or do they just kind of let things chill for a while and then maybe Josh picks up the phone and says, hey, you need any help. I mean, I don't know how you really approach this and should you even approach it?
Is it the right thing to do, especially when you're trying to build toward you at least a little bit in a different direction with a guy like, you know, a Bill O'Brien.
Yeah, I think ultimately, big picture, Josh mccaniels would probably love to return to New England, bring his family back, you know, re enrolled his kids in the schools that they grew up in and reconnect with their friends and all that. So I do think stability would be important for him and coming back to a place that he knows. But I don't think it's going to happen in season
this year. I think Evan mentioned it before. It's a there's too much shadow there if you bring in McDaniels to kind of consult right now with you know, kind of looking over Bill O'Brien's shoulder, that that's that's not good optics. Too many chefs in the kitchen. I don't think Bill O'Brien would really appreciate that. And frankly, I think McDaniel's probably, as most coaches do at this time, just wants to decompress. Yeah, he is getting a nice buyout from the Raiders.
Ben. They got to pay him for four years.
I mean, no one knows the exact details of the contract, as coaches contracts usually don't get shared. But yes, it does sound like Mark Davis is going to be paying a big fat buy out.
Not only did Josh.
McDaniels, but Dave Sziggler and other members that coaching staff too.
Isn't he still paying on John Gruden?
Well, so I wrote this in the Globe. So to me firing McDaniels right now, I think it kind of opens the door to maybe John Gruden returning. I mean, you look at Mark Davis, He's already paying a big fat buyout to John Gruden. He still had six years left on a ten year deal. And now he's paying a buyout to McDaniels and Gruden, who is suing the
NFL over his termination, is winning in court. He's beating the NFL in court, and he just want a key decision over the summer to keep it in court and not have the lawsuit moved to arbitration.
So I don't know.
I mean, Mark Davids didn't want to fire John Gruden.
To begin with.
He's basically held at gunpoint forced to do it by the NFL. I don't know. I think there's a scenario now where Gruden agrees to drop.
The lawsuit in the NFL and gets his job back.
Allows the Raiders to green state John Gruten.
That would be crazy, wouldn't it. I mean, it would it would be. I mean, it would be a side show perfect for Sin City in Las Vegas, without a doubt. I mean, three ring circles, the whole nine yards. But at the same time, it just that would leave me shaking my head on that one.
It'd be tough, especially because they'd have to, you know, bring up the whole all the circumstances why Gruden was fired at the person late, right, But I don't know,
you know, time does heal wound. And you know, the Raiders, they do have some minorities in key positions now in the organization, and I don't know, I do I do see a scenario where they could, you know, Gruden would come back with his tail, talk between his legs, offer all kinds of public apologies, and then they would try to hopefully just kind of move on because I'm you know, of all the that that seem is a mess right now, it needs a total rebuild, and what coach worth their
salt is going to go there when they just saw that McDaniels was just whacked after a year and a half to even get a chance to see anything through, the one guy that would get the fans excited again would be Grooded. I mean, I think the Raider Nations still Gruden, you know that, like that would be the one guy that would excite everyone. Sure, So to me right now it's just kind of a speculation, but I think there's a path there for Gruden to return, all.
Right, So you know where you know, does you know whether or not Josh McDaniels does end up back this where if you take some time off, which certainly makes a lot of sense to me, at least at this stage of the game before he decides to jump back into something right away. Fact remains is is that the trading deadline came, it went New England did nothing. I was not surprised by that. I don't think you were either, were you?
I don't know if I wasn't surprised that they didn't have a fire sale. I didn't expect them to trade everyone off. I mean, Bill Belichick wants to win games and keep his job this year, so he's not gonna just make the team worse and trade off guys for fourth.
And fifth round pick. I thought, maybe, you know, a deal could have been made.
Josh Ue Jay's name was certainly thrown around a lot at the end of the day, though, I think Patriots fans should be glad that they didn't have a fire sale, because the reason a big reason this team is in the pretty it's in is because they haven't been retaining their own players. They have been drafting and developing some good players, and then they let them all get paid by other teams, whether it's Joe Toney or Chandler Jones
or Logan, Ryan J. C. Jackson, Jacoby Myers. The list over the last eight or nine years is very lengthy, and the Patriots need to start operating like the other thirty one teams. You need to spend money on your own players and retain your own talent. Especially the NFL, they have spending minimum, and free agency is like a wasteland. Now we're seeing it this year. It's all B level free agents. It's guys that teams don't want any more. You're you know, it's hard to really build a team
through free agency. You could find an impact guy here or there, but you don't want to have to rely on free agency to build your team.
And to spend money.
You got to spend on your own players, your own star players. So guys like Kyle Dugger, Mike and Wnu Josh Bucha, they need to retain these guys. They need to spend money. And yeah, they might have to overspend a little bit for Kyle Dugger, but he's a playmaker. He's a guy that you've developed and part of your culture now, and you need to retain guys like that.
So I'm I.
Think Patriots fans should be hopeful that you know, yesterday's trade deadline inactivity, the fact that they didn't do a fire sale is at least a sign that the Patriots are going to try to start retaining their own players because they've let way too much.
Talent go up.
But are they retaining at least in this particular instance, I think it's a fair question to ask, are they retaining the right players? If they retain them, are they retaining the right ones? You can make a case already that, you know, the the biggest player they probably should have retained, they let go a guy named Brady.
I think, well, yeah.
I mean yes, I do think they should have found a way to let Brady retire as a Patriots, especially after they got rid of Jimmy Garoppolo and let Brady.
Kind of win that.
Look, you know, we can sit here and pick apart these guys and focus on their negatives. Kyle dugger isn't great playing in fake you know, Mike and WNU hasn't been able to consistently stay in the lineup. But it's also good to focus on their positives. Kyle Duggart is a playmaker, the guy interception sacks, touchdowns, always around the ball, hard hit. Mike went who a versatile alignman who could play multiple positions. You need leaders in the locker room.
You need to show the players that their efforts are going to be rewarded by the Patriots, not by another team if they play well and if they develop, and I mean obviously it all comes down to, you know, whether you find the quarterback and get the offense right. So, yeah, retaining Kyle Duggart in of itself isn't going to lead to wins. But you need to start keeping your own
talented players. And you need to have veterans who are invested in the team and the culture and the Patriots right now, because they were built mostly through free agency, it's just like a bunch of mercenaries and it's not a very talented team and guys who aren't that invested in the Patriots program.
And the quickest way I know to turn a guy from mercenary to one of your own is to sign them to another deal. Makes sense, right, Yeah, Like Hunter Henry you know, started his career as a charger, but he's been here now for three years.
He'll be twenty nine next year. You know, is he going to be an All Pro tight end? Probably not, but he's a reliable player. Whoever is the quarterback, whether if Max Jones or someone else. They're gonna need a veteran tight end who knows how to get open. If the Patriots draft the guy in the first or second round, they're still gonna need Hunter Henry to show them away and take the pressure off them right away. So you
still need to bring back the veterans. You can't just tear the team down to the stud You can be competitive while you're rebuilding. So, you know, I don't think the Patriots necessarily need to bring everyone back that. You know, the guy I wouldn't I'd be okay with would maybe be Josh Uch, who I think is a pass rusher, is probably gonna get a huge contract that I don't know if it's gonna match what kind of player he is.
He's down with you, Miles Bryant.
Hunter Henry bring these guys back and help build culture instead of just constantly flushing the roster every fre year.
But the same time and again, I'll just play devil's advocate here. You know, if these guys are not performing on the field for whatever reason, and whenever they have the opportunity, what's the point in bringing back to somebody who's not going to contribute to re establishing your culture.
Well, I would argue the guys that I'm talking about are I mean, Hunter Henry his production is directly tied to the quarterback, and I personally don't think mac Jones is the right quarterback.
You know.
As for Kyle Zugar, I mean he's playing well. He had a stacked the other day and an interception, and Mike and Wentu is solidifying the offensive line.
Now at right sackle.
These are quality young players who will get signed in free agency immediately if the Patriots let them go. They are not perfect, you know, they're not necessarily going to put the Patriots over the top. But these guys are good quality young players and that's who the Patriots need to start retaining.
Yeah, and I guess then in order to be able to make that decision, now is the time that these guys, if they're able to play, they need to be out there playing so these decisions can be made. And that's kind of how we open the show today. I mean, you say, oh, there's nothing to play for. This team
is two and six. You're not going anywhere, well maybe not to the playoffs, but you're still looking at a significant amount of growth that this organization needs to do, which starts with some of these players and trying to make this decision on whether or not so and so needs to return or so and so needs to move on, And that process does have to start now, doesn't it.
Yeah.
I hate to say it, but the Patriots are getting to a point where the players they need to be in it for themselves. It's not necessarily for the team anymore to ensure that, you know, you have a roster spot next year, whether it's with the Patriots or someone else. I mean, the camera is always rolling that there's always film that's going to be dissected, so you never want to put bad film out there. But at the same time, I think the players now just have to make sure
they look out for themselves. And you might see a look Kyle Dugger where he's at his career. In his fourth year, he's pretty much cemented what type of player he is, whether he plays the rest of the year or not. And so I'm not I don't want to accuse him of anything, but like a guy like that doesn't necessarily need to play every last snap. Now, you know, going into free agency, he might want to take some
snaps off. So those are the types of things that the Patriots are gonna have to battle here in.
The second half season.
What are you then? What are your thoughts? Then quickly on on the Commander's game this weekend and what this might mean in the bigger picture especially. I mean, I hate to put anything in a must win or whatever situation like that, because everybody thinks about that in terms of the next game, the next week and the next opportunity. I think we kind of that time is kind of come and gone. What's at stake this weekend?
Well, I yea, the playoffs are probably a long gone at this point, so it's not like a must win in that situation. Honestly, I think Belichick meets the win in the worst way. If he loses that home to the Commanders, Oh boy, is that hot seat talk gonna increase? They go to Germany and then they have a.
Bye week after that.
I mean, who knows, who knows what could happen. I wouldn't put anything past the Craft if they come home from that Germany trip.
At two an eight.
Who knows what would happen? So I think Belichick, you know, you got a bad, reeling Commander's team coming into town. That just traded away two of its star players, guys who were popular in the locker room. You saw some players kind of speak out on social media the other day. So the Patriots are I think fortunate. They're playing a team that even more scarred emotionally than they are, and the team that might be trying less on Sunday. You
know Evan mentioned before Sam Howell and the stacks. Honestly, I think that's going to be the key. Belichick's gonna scheme up some stunts. They're going to get some pressures. I thought the Patriots defense played a lot better against the Dolphins, despite the score and some of the staffs. I thought they fought really hard and it made plays. If there was any sort of offensive production, the defense
I think would have looked a lot better. So coming off that Bills game, and then I think they did play better last week. So I think the defense is going to make Sam Howell's life very difficult on Sunday, and so I expect the Patriots kind of to be a classic Patriots win in the sense of the defense creates the turnovers, gets towards the points, puts mac Jones
in a good situation. So I am expecting a Patriots win this Sunday, and it might just cool things off around here for a little bit as they had Germany. Give them some positive vibes heading into that trip. If not, if they do lose at home, to the commanders, man, it's going to get ugly around here really quickly.
Ben, thanks so much for the time today. Appreciate the chance to talk to you. All right, thank you, you got it, Ben Volan at ben Volan v O l I in on X. All right, let's talk about the team that might be just as wounded emotionally, if not physically, as the Patriots are, and that would be the commander. Ben Standing covers Washington for the Athletic the Athletic dot com and Ben Joyce is here inside the Patriots playbook. I'm curious, Ben, if you heard Ben Vollen's comments here.
It's an all Ben day. I guess here inside the playbook. You know, was that your job, Matt? Did you do that on purpose? Not plan that well? It worked out well? It worked out well? Is he accurate and saying that, you know, maybe this Washington team is just as wounded, if not, you know, a little bit more so psychologically than the Patriots are. At this stage.
It's interesting a lot.
I just heard him say that Bill Bill Bellichick could be on the hot seat if they lose to this commander's team, and that's that. That says something about where the commanders are at, and that's somenning that that's where Bill Belichick.
Might be at.
But yeah, it's a big question, right. Obviously, they've lost five or six games. Some of those losses have been really embarrassing to some of the worst teams in the league. And now you just trade it away two of your better players in Montese Wett and Chase Young, and it's natural to think some of the players could be like, oh man, where is the season going?
Right?
And we saw some of that reaction on social media after the trade. I don't know, though, if I expect to see that. I think I think Ron Rivera has done a largely good job at keeping these guys focused on the task at hand. The last law they just had against Philadelphia thirty eight to thirty one. You know, the offense in particular had a pretty good game, and I think they competed in battle with all that fun stuff.
They've had a lot of issues on defense already, so I can't say that's going to get cleaned up that they've traded away sweat and young. On the other hand, historically over the last two or three years, the team has actually been more disciplined and in some statistics better when some of the reserves have come in because those because those guys are more disciplined. I guess you could say, like they kind of you're the less defensive ends, your
role is this, and they stick to that. Before when they have four guys who are Pro Bowl level players, everybody kind of is trying to get their own even if they're working together. I think that's where things get out of whack. So they actually could be fundamentally a more stable group. And then you know a lot of it's going to come down to Sam Howe, right, obviously a young quarterback, still learning, but he's had some good games. His best game of the year is probably the pass
one against the Eagles. So I totally get that this team could come out flat and be disinterested, But I don't know if I expect that, So I think that will be interesting to see for sure.
I wanted to I wanted to ask you. I'll ask you about Sam Hall in a second. But when the trades were made, you know, on Tuesday and Montes sweat I and you wrote a piece in the Athletic about this that you know, the commanders, I guess, largely wanted to keep him if they could. Why do you think they ultimately decided to deal him and young both, especially considering I mean, mathematically they've got more of a shot certainly than New England does. And I realized they operate
in different universes. But I just found one of them maybe, but both of them. I found that a bit curious.
Yeah, I think it was. I think that wasn't the expectation. But the more we, you know, feel the layers of the onion, it kind of makes a little more sense in this regard. They opened the door to the league to say, hey, we're open to trading these guys. I think one thing that we're realize here is all the Patriots have had the same ownership forever and been very
successful owner. Obviously the commander has just told they're right, said Josh Harris, taking over for Dan Snyder, and he only got the team literally the day before training camp started, So there has been no impact from ownership on the situation. And I'm not saying he heavy handed round Rivera and
said you've got to do this. But I do think with a new owner, the future is now at least writing Shotgune to the present, which was not been the case though its typically they've been short sighted, I would say, with a lot of their moves, even pre dating Rivera. So this was a more forward thinking move that realistically, yeah we're only three and five, Yeah we're only one game out of the wild Card, but realistically we've seen too much to think that this is going to be
a complete turnaround. I don't think they think they've bailed on the season because, as I said, they've got some guys at defensive ends we will now step in who played James Smith, Williams, Casey two Hill Fa Albata. Not saying they're pro bowlards, but they've played, they've been solid, So I think from that perspective, they're looking at it like we can still move forward here. And apologies, I just blank on what you were No.
No, no, it's understood. I would just if you were largely surprised, and let me give you a little bit different context on it. Because of the fact that Ron Rivera might need players of that caliber to help win games, which might help him keep his job in the first place.
Sure, so I think ultimately they really wanted to keep monteste Wet. I think he's been much more reliable than Chase hung, more durable, more productive. Maybe he doesn't have the same upside, but he's been good that he's could in the locker room, all those things, So I think they wanted to keep him. But when they opened the door to trade possibilities and the Chicago Bears said, hey, will give you our second round pick, which as it stands today would be like the third pick in the
second round. And I don't think anybody's projecting the Bears to go on some big run here, right, So it's probably gonna be a pretty good pick. And Chase, Sorry, montest Wet a free agent after this year. I'm not saying would be impossible to get an extension, but you know, I don't know who knows for sure. And if you wait the year and let him go for compensatory pick one, you may not even get that compensatory pick for a variety of reasons, and two, you wouldn't even get it
until twenty twenty five. So I think that all the circumstances has led to them saying this is too good of an offer to pass on. But then why then trade Chase Young. I think the perception outside of this area has Chase Young is probably the more interesting player, the more dynamic player, the one you would keep. I don't think that's the view of a lot of people here. It's not to say that Chase Young is bad or
can't reach his potential. It's to say, it's been four years, there's injury concerns, you have a significant the injury in twenty twenty one, there's sort of improvement concerns. He's one of those guys that I would say has one at every level He's been at largely based on his natural abilities and athleticism and has not always maybe work to refine his pastor our skills, or do everything a pro
needs to do to be at the next level. So I think they were rather than saying, hey, we're going to tag this guy for a twenty one million or payment extension, I don't think we've seen enough to want to give that. So if you're going to trade one, you know, let's just you know we're already we let's just dive into the pool kind of deal. So I think that's why if it had been reversed, if they
traded Young, maybe they don't trade sweat. But once the offerer Sweat came in, I think the inside it we just.
Just too good to pass.
So they just decided, Hey, if we're as long as we're sort of going to build mode here, let's see we can get you know, maximum return I guess on the investment.
Yeah.
So, and here's the other thing. Let's just say case Young and Montester to what we're gone some time ago and we're doing like the season preview of this team. You have two defensive tackles that were in the Pro
Bowl last year, I mean Jonathan Allen. As they're on pain on the line, they're not deficient from a talent standpoint, and the guys that they can still in you know, again, I'm not saying that they're Pro Bowls, but they they've shown the ability to play like Okay, this is this as a minor example of James Smith Williams who's been here since twenty twenty as a seventh round pick in games and I looked this up today, in games in which he's played at least forty five percent of the snaps,
this team is thirteen to five and one. Now, I don't know what was happening in the game, but I could promise you their winning percentage is not even close to thirteen five.
And one over the last four years.
So these guys can you know, they're not going to get put up flashy numbers, but they do their job and that's going to allow Allan and Pain to do their jobs at a higher level. That's the thinking at least.
Yeah, And that's certainly, as we mentioned a little bit earlier in the show, that that rally actually plays right into a patriot weakness, is going up the middle with the rush on guy like Mac Jones with guys like you know, Pain and Allen. So I got to ask the obvious, then, why is this team three and five with so much talent that it had at its disposal? Is it being misused? Is did that hurt? Where are you? What are being able to put your finger on?
Well, you know, there's always so much going on here, and even though they've gotten rid of Dan Snyder, you know, there's still some stink from that era in terms of you know, what's transpired over the last few years and just even the football side of things and putting everything together. I think there has been some questions about coaching.
I think that's fair.
I think there's questions about the front office. This has been honestly a really disaster of an offseason for them. The draft class, almost nobody is contributing in any positive way or playing at all. The free agency they didn't do a ton in free agency this year, but the players that they did sign two deals. One was it center Nick Gates, he just got bench last week. Right tackle Andrew Wiley, who was with Eric the Enemy in Kansas City, has had a has had struggles for sure.
So they've just gotten nothing out of their out of the new pieces that they added. And frankly, if you had told me before the year that they would struggle, I would assume that Sam Howe does you know, didn't have it rough start or whatever. He's keeping pretty solid. He's coming off his best game of the year, four touchdown passes against the Eagles. You know, he's stilly up and downs as a young quarterback, but he's actually been pretty good. But they've just not had you know, the
defense has just been a mess. And you know, like I said, I think part of them with the defense is like you had. It's like season NBA analogy. You have like four guys who all wanted the ball and all wanted to Scots twenty points a game. You have to have somebody who's going to be set the picks right and taking charge of sure things like that, and
they didn't have that. And that's why I think they're hopeful that maybe having two role players as a work with their two stars as the tackles helps them out more. But yeah, it's been a mess across the board, the defense, the pass protection, Sam Housman taxed forty one times already. It's been rough though. Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of ways to look at Wyse. Thing hasn't worked out so fart.
Yeah, Al Howell is the one that I obviously wanted to wanted to get to next. As long as everybody's jumping on him, might as well jump on his backside as well. Forty one sacks is extraordinary. It's what thirteen more than the next closest team, And I'm just wondering how he's held up, you know, how he speaks about that, how Ron Rivera deals with that. I mean, it's amazing. To me, the guy's even standing up right at this stage of the game.
Yeah, it's forty one sacks and they only had one last week, so.
It was really bad.
Wow.
Prior to that, part of the sax is because he's been holding the ball a bit too long for from scan for the receivers. But he was a lot better this past week, frankly, and maybe that was also part to the play calling from Eric. The enemy called for a lot of quick throws, a lot of quick decisions had to be made, and he was and how was pretty good at that.
Physically he seems okay, we.
Haven't really seen you know, there hasn't been those moments where he's laying on the fields of going on though.
Is he's going to get up?
I'm sure he's hurting to a degree. But he's been you know, he's been pretty good. And you know he is he's a pretty gritty player. He doesn't have highs and lows. He really seems to be, you know, whether they're winning or losing. He seems to maintain a pretty good, even keel vibe and he and he's not afraid to throw the ball in places and you might think, oh boy, this is a really risky guts he throw, and he's
not only attempted them, he's made some of them. If you go back and watch their game against the Denver and week too, he really makes them.
Throwers are just like, wow, that could.
Have been from the best quarterbacks in the league. He just has to learn, you know, as they all do, the various nuances of a position again, how to get rid of the ball quicker. So yeah, he's done pretty well. And also say last week they were they had two new starters on the offensive line, and that seemed to help them.
In the middle of that line.
What does Washington do particularly well and are those players still in Washington?
The good question.
I don't even know how to answer that at this point.
Sorry, I'm mean mean to toss that one out at you like that, but I mean, to me, it was the it was the obvious. I'm like, well, you know, this team still seems to have some great pieces of the puzzle, but what the hell. And I'm sure that there are are commanders. Fans did feel the same way, Yeah for sure.
I mean, like, if you look at the offense, like Terry McLaurin, you know he's not a top five receiver but he's one of the better ones in the league. He makes tough catches. But even that last week against the Eagles, he had two balls front at him. Maybe they weren't drops, but he didn't bring them in either, and that ended a drive that was That was odd. Johan Dobson, who had a great rookie year, has been
much quieter this year. The previous weekends the Giants fourth down in the end zone, end of the game, again not necessarily the easiest opportunity, but a play he could make and didn't dropped it. But those guys are pretty, you know, pretty talented, and they have Curtis.
Samuel as well.
On defense, Like I said, with Alan and Payne, you have two of the better defensive tackles in the middle. So in theory they just be pretty good against the run and things like that. But collectively that just hasn't worked out. And you know, we thought the secondary was going to be his strength. You have some nice pieces can curl it. Safety. One of the better young safety is in the league. Kendall Fuller has been around a while.
He's pretty good at corner. But they draft Emmanuel Forbes in their first round, not instead of taking Christen Gonzales the whole other story. But Forbes has been getting lit up and he's had to be pinched basically at times. So it played. Yeah, it's like they have the stuff, they just the stuff that hasn't been delivering to the degree when you say.
What are they good at?
I'm like, wow, what they should be good at or some of those things. Yeah, but it just hasn't quite happened.
Yeah. Do you put that blame on the on the coaching staff and and Ron River in particular, for these guys not developing to the potential that I guess was originally believed to be possible.
I mean, I think you have to some degree, right, I mean, this is this would be his you know, if they finished the losing record, all four of rivera season would have been under five hundred. Yeah, his career. I believe it's now nine of his twelve years as a head coach he seems have finished under five hundred. So you know, it's hard to argue against that to a degree. But you know, and I also, as I said before, I think their off season transactions have really just not helped the cause.
So you know, when when guys.
Get hurt or you need other people to step up. Are those people doing it? Like the defensive line, even with Sweat and Young, they were fine this year. Like I'm not saying they were like a negative, but fine isn't enough. When you're invested all that first, all that draft capital and invested a lot of money into these guys. They have to be better or the other parts of your defense have to step up. And that hasn't happened, nor have they been, you know, so imposing that they're
taking over games. They did a little bit early in the year, but not so much over the course of the season. So yeah, I mean, it's certainly a combination of the coaches and some of the players maybe just being asked to do more than they than they should be because of deficiencies elsewhere.
Had to chuckle when you said he's had losing record nine of his twelve years a head coach, because if you Josh McDaniels, you've got to be wondering, what the hell do I do to get that shot? You know?
Well, I mean, you know you got to go fifteen in one and make a Super Bowl.
I guess would be.
One thing, Like I guess that's.
Yeah.
The three years that Rivera had winning record that were really extremely really good. One Coach of the Year awards, things like that. So yeah, that stuff like that helps.
It does. It does buy a little extra time and a little extra consuit. Hey Ben, thank you for the time to do. Appreciate it and save travels this way.
Yeah.
I look forward to it and never been to until that stadium, so looking forward to it.
Think, well, it's all gussied up for you. We have this lighthouse. I don't know if you've heard about it or not, but we got this big lighthouse and you know, big old scoreboard out in the value and I'll tell you what. Just ask for the clam chowder when you get here and you'll be all set. Serious I am, I am, I'm totally serious about the clam chowder. If you like the lighthouse rather, hey, good for you. You know,
it was actually pretty fun going up there. But you know it's there are a lot of people run here a grouse about it because they're like, well, he spend all this money on the lighthouse, but they can't, you know, go out and spend it on the team. And it's a whole another subject.
Wait, I have a quick question if I'm staying in Boston. How early do I need to go? I heard the traffic is not great.
No, I I at one o'clock kickoff from Boston. I'd be on the road at nine am, all right?
Noted?
Okay, Just just to be safe, you know, if you can make it in in an hour to an hour and a half, I think you're doing okay. To be honest with you, come tailgate in four hours before. Yeah, the tailgate goes four hours before as well, so you should be able to get in after the initial tailgate push has gotten into the stadium, so you should be okay in that regard.
Fair enough. I appreciate it, all right.
Thanks, Brod. I appreciate your time today for sure.
Thanks.
You got it. Ben standing at B E, N, S, T, A, and D I G. You'll find him on Twitter, so that's where you can find me. Covers the Washington commanders for the Athletic and the Athletic dot com Patriots fans. If you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV, go to buy a Toyota dot Com.
It's Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle out of the New England Patriots, Toyota Let's Go Places and Bridgestone is the official tire of the New England Patriots, and Bridgestone tires are now on sale through November fifteenth at all Sullivan Tire locations. Visits sullivantire dot Com for a location near you. All Right, So that was a little bit of a worl wind opening to the program. Eight five five PATS five hundred. Eight five five Pats
five hundred is the toll free totalphone number. The question that I had for you really today is quite simple and totally blank. Russell. Hello, Russell Baxter will join us at the bottom of the ear to go through week nine around the NFL and get his thoughts on all things trade, deadline and Patriots and commanders as well. The question I was really simple. I got the impression again,
as I mentioned Evan a little bit earlier. I got the impression earlier that you know, listening to local sports radio, and sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes that's not necessarily a good thing. But I got the impression listening to the sports radio that people were really upset over the fact that the Patriots stood pat didn't do a thing at the trading deadline, and I'm like, I'm not surprised at all. I'm like, i would have been act if
they had made a deal. I'll be honest with you, even for Josh Uche because again, you know, as Bill has dryly pointed out several times, he takes two teams to trade. And unless somebody has a definitive need out there, who does New England have that can help somebody else? You know, I would have said, you know, initially, well, maybe Job's Husche you know, could have been a trade candidate for Washington because they just traded away you know, their two ends you know, for you know, draft capital
and return. But at the same time, see, I don't think Uce is at every down player. I don't think he is the size of the durability. That's just my own personal opinion. Now, that doesn't mean that he can't find a niche for himself. Doesn't mean that he couldn't eventually play a role, you know, into a full time role. If he's thrust into that, sometimes that has to happen and you don't have any other choices. I'm just saying, in an ideal set of circumstances, I'm not sure that's
the case. And then the vitriol that I heard over Mac Jones not being traded. I'm like, really, and you want to play whom Bailey's happy. I'd almost buy Malik Cunningham before I buy that, So I'm just like, I don't. I guess either we're letting our emotions get the best of us here over being frustrated that the Patriots aren't doing anything to correct the issues, or there's just not enough smarts smots. There's not enough smots out there. And
I doubt that very seriously, I really doubt that. I know, with this particular audience, you're way smarter than that, you know, I just based on the conversations that I've had with many of you over the twenty two years we've done this show. I mean, I'm just like, come on now, yeah, Godfather one or two? Was that too? Right? That was Godfather too? Alright? I'm smart? One of the best old time lines of the entire movie. I'm smart, Mikey, I'm smart, okay,
And I know you're smart. I know it, I get it. I've talked to many of you who are smart. But that was real stupid on the air yesterday. There just was, and that disappointed me greatly, it, I mean, and so why if you're upset and I'm not calling name, I'm speaking in general terms, okay, but if you were upset, were you upset for a specific reason or just upset because it seemed like the Patriots weren't doing anything to correct the issue. And then if you're upset, like I
additionally was, I admit I'm in that corner. And then the more I thought about it, I'm like, well, it makes total sense to not do a thing. I had to give that some thought. So why would a team that's two and six stand pat And I think largely for a couple of reasons. Number one evaluation as evident. I talked about it in the opening of the program today. You got to know who's worth keeping, and you may not know because it's all it's been about winning games.
But now that that time is pretty much come and gone and left us for at least twenty twenty three, Okay, So beyond winning games, we gotta see if guys can play. Are there are there NFL caliber players here? And knowing that you've got this huge chunk of change on your side, you know, heading into a free agency and the salary cab increase and everything else that you've got, you probably need to do some internal discussion over do we have guys that we want to pay to keep? At least
that's my point of view. And then I think the other issue, you know, largely has.
To be.
Why aren't they doing anything to improve their situation? And I would tell you, well, what would you have them do? See that kind of that kind of goes hand in hand right there, What would you have them do? I mean, they're doing everything they can do. Clearly, they're doing a lot of things that you know, we can all agree to disagree about, you know, drawing up plays, you know,
the personnel. Honestly, you got to play who you got, you know, and and and your your best players are dropping like flies, and you've lost arguably your two best defensive players. And and yet I don't think the defense was completely I don't think I think the defense actually played pretty well last week against Miami. I do. I think the defense, with the exception of maybe New Orleans, has played pretty well all year long. And so they're missing two really good players. But what would you do
to fix that issue? And I think then you know, and We've discussed it on this program many times. So a lot of the problems that you know, this Patriot team, you know, seems to be having centers around the offense. And I think we can all kind of agree on that. And it still gets back to the original premise. The offensive line has not been good, and the offensive lines case of hebe GBI's, you know, giving mac Jones a case of he b GB's or happy feed or whatever
you want to call it. That's been a main reason why he's been so inaccurate. And while he's thrown off his back foot, and why he's rushed his throws, why he throws across his body, and my god, if he throws to the left one more time, I think we're all going to let out a collective screen. I mean he even knew it. He said it in the game, after the game on Sunday. You know, I knew the second I let it go is wrong. Well then why
did you throw it? Sometimes the logic defies me, So we know where the mistakes are being made, but there's no corrections. How would this team have done it ten or twelve years ago? And my answer to that is Tom Brady, he made up for a lot of mistakes. He covered up a lot of errors, way more errors, I think. And I would also tell you that a lot of guys wanted to play with Tomas. I think we can all recall, right, and so there was a
different caliber of player in here. That doesn't mean these guys are bad, doesn't mean these guys are no good to me. What it means is is these guys don't understand fully the Patriot Way, whatever the hell that means. They hadn't gotten it, and I'm not sure there's anybody around still to teach it. I would say Matt Slater. But then hey, when they did the whole you know, celebration thing in the locker room, it was Jabril Preppers
that took it over a couple of weeks ago. You probably saw the video here on the website, and it wasn't you know how we feel in about it. You know, it was just like family on three one two three Family. Okay. I think it's great. I think it's great that there's and we said this last week on the show, it's good that there are new leaders that are stepping up. But new leaders bring new styles. New styles bring different beliefs and a belief doesn't jibe with what worked in
the past, it's automatically gonna be well scrutinized. And so what we have here is a confluence of a lot of different things. And let's not lose sight of the fact that while the struggles certainly have begun and largely ended with the offensive linecause I think if you had an all pro offensive line in front of you, there's a lot of throws that Mac doesn't make trying to make plays because I think that's where he gets into trouble. He tries to do something that he probably is incapable
of doing, and that's when he gets into trouble. And he also has receivers that aren't cable of going and get the ball. With all due respect to guys like Devonte Parker and Juju Smith Schuster, those guys don't have what they once had. Juju is gonna get a chance to prove if he's got anything left in the tank at all, because Kendrick Bourne has gone for the year now, so he's gonna get a shot, you know. And to that, I would just say, all right, show us, show us
what you got. Are you worth keeping around? Are you worth you know? You know, are we wrong about you? Where you damage goods before you got here? Which is what everybody seems to think and seems to believe now and right now we have no reason to believe otherwise. It was strategically, right now not a good move, you know, paying him the money as opposed to say, you know, sixteen. So I'm just saying, you know, there's just so many
different pieces to this puzzle. But the bottom line still is that the offensive line has been a work in progress. They still haven't had all five of the original starters that they that they had had foreseen to be starting. They haven't had him on the field yet together. They've had bits and pieces here and there the last few weeks. But I would also argue that that really hasn't been the big problem the last few weeks. You know, when
you get beat up. When you get beat up, you get gun shy, when you get you know, ensconced in battle and you absorb blows, you know, for whatever reason, I mean, you get a little gun shy after a while. You know, it says nothing about your personal pride. It just says that, hey, you're a little aware, you know, you know, you know, you know where the shots are coming from, and so you know, you become a little bit more leary. I guess it's probably the proper word
to take here. And so even if things are improving in front of Mac, he still doesn't know where those shots are coming from. It's the whole you know, I'm seeing ghosts out there. You know that we saw for you know, playing the Jets a few years ago, you know, with with Sam, I just I you know, I've been I really racked my brain trying to figure out how this thing has gone off the deep end when nobody, I mean and literally nobody saw this coming. And so that's why I kind of open it up to you
at this particular stage of the game. What do you want to see?
What?
Number one, if you were upset that they didn't make a move, why were you upset that they didn't make a move for the trade deadline? And what do you want to see from this team over the course of the next nine weeks. It's a long way to go, and that doesn't count. You know, in two weeks there's a bye week, so there's a reevaluation, you know, period in here that you know the team was going to have to go through. Once they get back from Germany. All right, let's get back to the phones and Eldred.
Eldred's driving around somewhere in North Carolina.
Hey, Eldred, Hey, mister legend. I'm off today. Good for you, Yes, I have them off today, enjoying a nice cold North Carolina day.
Good for you. Well except for the cold day, I know, but we've got that here too. It's forty four beer forty four to Yeah, cold beer is what I'd rather have, But I mean it's a forty four degrees and kind of clammy cold here, So I get you that way here.
Yeah, yeah, yes, there is about that way here, about forty something degrees. Told a wom up it's about fifty and didn't get back down to twenty nine at night.
Oh no, yeah, I'm not ready for that.
Yes, yes, I'm not ready for eighty either, But I have to go back to work tomorrow and fight in it. Though.
All be safe out there, yes, but.
Me A lot of people mad about about uh Jones. I think we should have traded him, sir, because he broke. I mean he's broken. I mean he's gun like you said, he's gun shy.
But what do you replace? What are you replace him with you gotta be real, what do you replace him?
I'm gonna be I'm gonna be real with you. I ran a scenario by you yesterday. They sort of laugh and they gave him one more. But uh, Minnesota is in a is in a chase position. If they give you two or.
Three four, take it well if they if they, if they would give you two or three. But that doesn't solve Minnesota's problem, and it and it doesn't solve New England's problem.
It does solve Newion problem.
No, it doesn't. You still don't have anybody playing quarterback. You have nobody to play quarterback.
You ain't let me finishin't let me finish? All right, Okay, didn't you? Didn't you go trade for you the Heineken or George Kobe Brussett. They banned the ship until to
our draft choice. Then you go after another quarterback, because I don't care if you put Terry mclark, Terry McLaren or DK Metcalf or even uh the other guy at wide receiver, he ain't gonna hit him because, like you said, throwing off his back foot, you're seeing ghosts and he's throwing all across the bomb across across his body, you know. And of course, and the hyde receivers we got were down born. You're down Archer's out right.
Well we think, yeah, well, okay, you need another receiver.
Tacon don't seem to be the answer. Okay, you ain't played Booty all year, you know, but a couple of times, you know, he goes and gets Miami. You need to get his feed in a couple of times. I guess you think he's still playing college ball. Well you got to play them now, Well, you could have try to try trade somewhere and got either. I don't care if they wanted a two, but Judy and I have tried.
See, that's a lot of wheeling and dealing. That's I mean, Elder, everything you say actually does make sense. I won't deny that, but I would tell you that that's a lot of wheeling and dealing. You'd make this trade, and then you're gonna make this trade, and then you're gonna make this trade. And again it takes two willing parties to make deals.
And if the other party senses that you need to make this trade, they're gonna hold out, you know, for you know, extra because they know your your butts against the wall here, and this is where trades fall apart all the time.
Like I said, it's take two. But if you don't okay did but I guarantee you you could have got You could have got that quarterback.
You could have got either.
It's just just it's just they bitching Jimmy now and they're gonna start O'Connell since they got rid of or mc daniel because that's on the news too. Give me.
One of the more interesting trade possibilities that I heard was is maybe the Patriot should should consider trading Mac Jones for Jimmy Garoppolo. I heard that one, and and then I'm kind of like, eh, okay, I've heard worse. I mean, Groppolo is broken too, so I don't know how much that really solves you. And if you're really going to and here's the well, yeah, okay, maybe he know it's the system. But Groppolo also makes a hell
of a lot more money. So why wouldn't you in that regard, why wouldn't you just keep mag because he doesn't he doesn't cost your checkbook that much more. You got him next year for what two point seven something like that? Something ridiculous. You know, quarterbacks don't make that. That's chicken fee.
Makes your nose question. What if you keep him next year and he's still playing the same way. They's stay to get him a good tackle.
Then you draft a quarterback and they get hair. Then you draft a quarterback. You have to listen. I'm not if they've got a top five pick this year. If they end up in the top five, I would seriously have to consider taking a quarterback. And I don't even know that Caleb Williams is all that. I'm not convinced he's all that. I don't think that guy, I'm not sure about it. I don't know if that guy's really a team guy. I think he's all about himself, which
is fine, that's what you want to be. That's great. But I'm not convinced that that he's gonna be the savior.
I'm not either. You know I I heard you keep talking about.
May Drake Maye from North Carolina. Yeah, you ought to be able to tell us about him. Do you ever watch him play?
Yeah, Washington player against my team. I'm a Florida State guy, and Jordan Travis took that team apart. You know, so and then that defense took me apart. So you know, I'm wish, but I'd rather have Jordan Travis before I have may to be honest with you, but I'm a Florida State guy, so I'm gonna keep going Florida State, you know, and some of the Clemson players, but the quarterback on Clemson, I'm gonna want nothing to do with it. But Jordan Travis.
Yes, the Patriots quarterback is at least two or three years away. His name is Archie Manning. Watch it's just great. It's it's Archie grim Manning's grandson. It's it's it's the it's the nephew of Peyton any.
Life, if you paid, that's two years away.
Probably probably at least two years away.
Yeah, he's two years away. Well maybe maybe not, but I never thought about him. But but all the quarterbacks coming out this year, some of them the athletic, you know, tall, athletic, strong arm. You know, you want somebody to move. Matt Cape moved. But but the reason why I say get rid of get rid of Matt And like I said, he's broken, he's he don't trust system. I don't think he trusted players. And like I said, I'm watching too many games where I'm seeing guys. I know, I'm seeing
it on TV. They look wide over him, but he's throwing somewhere else with triple coverage, and even the announcers say that, and then they go back shoulder start and play. If you throw liot So onto him, Barker's open, bolls open and end zone for a touchdown or whatever. He's not sitting because he's trying to get out of there before he gets hit again. And he ain't trusting the system, and he ain't trusting nothing else. So I think it best to him have a fresh start somewhere else and try again.
Yeah.
I don't want to begin it.
Yeah I don't. I don't really, Uh, I don't. Yeah, the whole fresh start idea, you know, sounds good in theory. I'm just I'm not sure in practicality whether or not that's what the Patriots really need.
Uh.
The Patriots have to be selfish in this regard. So unless you're getting, you know, some kind of value back that you know is at least you know, a round pick well something. I mean, come on, he was a he was the number fifteen pick overall. So I'm not gonna give him away for a ham sandwich. I'm just not gonna do it.
No, I wouldn't either. But you ain't gonna get a first of them.
No.
Well, listen, if someone offered them, if someone offered them a late, a late first round pick, I'd have been all over that, like hen on a june bug.
Yeah, me too.
It's a late round, yeah, but right, suck it more more realistic because they gonna do that unless they really need even they close, you know, But and then maybe you could start over somewhere else and then fresh start whatever. But but I didn't like. I didn't like. I said, I didn't like to pick it in the in that year or the ones that Bill been doing, except for one that's guns outs, And I told you that, then be tweet him and Quentin Johnson, I really have Gunzales.
Then maybe get Quinting, you know, or somebody else stuck in the third round. We didn't do that easy. We got a bunch of guards and cinemas. When you had you had the Kwan Jones sitting there for the fourth in the fourth round. Now he started for Cleveland. He looking like oh pro already. But you could add him on the right side. You're pass him four times.
Yep, you know. But we're really we're really good revision, you know, coaches and and scouts here. I think we really are. We like to look back on things and say that was a screw up. That was a screw up. That was a screw up. And well it's easy to say was a screw up after the fact, right.
No, I was, like I said, had I had my own little board.
I gotta say, No, I gotta see the I gotta see it. I gotta see Eldrick's big board. I need to see We need to see Eldred's big board. When can you make it? When can you bring the truck up this way? Make a run so you can come in the studio and we get to see your big board.
I know what I can do.
I know what I can do. I can make a big board and screen screenshot it to your to your instam account or faithbook account.
All right, this is who I will get this through, this this and this fair. I'd love to see it, guys.
Difficult. Quentin Johnson looked a little good the Monday night, you know, but he's slowly coming along. And again, like I said, I want a gun dollars anyway till my boy got hurt. But but let me ask you a question, mister legend. Now I don't wanna let you go. Okay, let's say we got the top field or six pick in the draft. Biel still here. And I don't care who who you put down like, well, I don't make the person I'm coaching. Now, you make all the decisions.
Would you trust them to do the right thing? And this year draft coming up, it's gonna be heavy in court, eat him in quarterback, litpid heavy and white receivers and some corner that is yet But I'm just wondered.
That is a legitimate question. And and I have to tell you that my legitimate answer is I don't know, because I have a lot I have I have a lot of doubt. I absolutely have a lot of doubt. And I know where you're going with that, and and I and I'm with you on that. I mean, there's
a part of me that's that said. You know what, Listen, Josh McDaniels, I think just got fired from the from the Raiders for less than you know what you know Bill has done with the Patriots, and you know, and other coaches have lost their jobs for much less than what Bill has done. But Bill has also built up a lot of you know, he's built up you know, twenty two years of good will and six super Bowl trophies,
I might add. So, I mean, you know, there's there's a part of me that, you know, hey, what have you done for is lately it hadn't been very good, and yeah, we need to try to do attitude here. And then there's another part of me that's saying, all right, Bill, here's your chance to, here's your chance to you know, yeah, it exact before you do, right off into the sunset.
Okay, I'd have said this one hundred times. You laughed. Again, he didn't do it by it was twelve. It was twelve the whole time. Twelve gone twelve won Super Bowl without him. And look where we're at now.
I know, I know, I know, I listened. You can document. I know it's not an argument. You're right.
And every time, like I said before, All Pro Quarterback League, that coach still there, it takes their team five to ten years get back to something. Body later sometime later, Dallas ain't got back yet.
That's true.
Yeah, that's NFL facts. There's nothing else to make it up. That's the NFL fact. Even the greatest one got fired, you know, uh Shuler, Tom Landry Raft, their quarterback gone.
They all yeah, yeah, they all meant the same thing.
Yeah, record like this, Yeah, same fate. They can't get back to the winning Wait right, it was that guy and Brady brought Brady made everybody circle the wagon. That's one thing we ain't got in Dongland right now. That might make everybody accountable covered.
The wagon, That's true.
We don't have that now.
No, Well, I would tend to agree with that, which is why I would be, you know, uh, cautiously optimistic, very cautiously optimistic over you know, letting Bill have the reins to it all. Eldred. I love your brother and thank you. You'd be safe out on the road. Claire in the UK, Nice to talk to you, Claire. How are you hey?
Ricky?
Hen Marie?
Hey girl? What's happening?
Oh?
You know, busy, busy, all these things staying up late waiting for the trade deadline being hired today, I'm over caffeinated and.
In the sleep.
So what was your initial impression of doing nothing at the trade deadline? Were you that devastated or or what.
Oh no, I was actually kidding.
I didn't actually stay wait just for that. I just don't speaking today.
But no, I was.
I was fine because my concern was that they were going to sell off pieces that I've feel and necessary to build a core like for the future. Maybe not these elite, sparkly players that people sort of you know, the playmakers or the weapons the people like to say, but the core that you need, the stability, the strengths, the backbone of a team, the reliability in the likes of Dugger and Petters and Punter Henry Mike Conway knew, those sorts of.
Key players that you still need.
So I'm glad that they didn't sell off those.
So I was.
I was completely fine.
The lack of activity, yeah, and I kind of I kind of was too. I mean, that's that's really how I looked at it, And more so, you know, from a snarky point of view, like, well, who the hell are they going to trade? Who wants some of these guys the way that they're playing right now, But at the same time trying to look at it as a business, I'm kind of like, well, no, because what you really need to do is you need to determine what you have on down the road and whether or somebody is
worth keeping. And because you have to have some on the team, you can't just you can't just have a fire sale. You can't have a garage sale. You can't you know, just let everybody go for you know, a back of peanuts. You got to be able to have somebody that you can build around. Otherwise then you really haven't done your job. And I don't think the job
that they've done has been that egregiously bad. I think this is, just, like I said earlier, a confluence of a lot of bad stuff that's happened kind of all at once. And the fact is is that you know, and we really tend to forget this, this was a tough schedule for this team to take this year. It's just the way that, you know, the dice rolled and the way that the schedule rotation came up, and how
other teams have reformulated themselves. But just you combine the fact that you're still on the bounce back going up against teams who are extraordinarily good, and you put some injury in that, you put a lot of indecision, and you put some some lack of development, and yeah, probably some poor coaching or poor decision making whatever on there. And it's just it's been a little of this and a little of that, and it's just become a real big mudd bye, is what it's become. And so now
how do you fix this issue? Well, let's just take it one step at a time, because the coach ain't going anywhere. Although listen, I guess mister kraf could pull Mark Davis and decide to you know, haul off and firehim at one am. But I think, you know, we'd all be extraordinarily surprised. I'm not surprised that happened, you know, with Vegas, because that's just who the Davis family is, and it was that way when his dad owned the team.
So but you know, I don't know if the Patriots went two and fourteen, two and fifteen, if they lost the rest of them, could that possibly happen? I'd say, maybe, sure, I don't think that's gonna happen. What's that?
I think it depends on the circumstance. If if they are.
What you said two and fourteen and so, well, it's because they have been testing out all their young players they've been trying to establish what works in the offense, what doesn't work, what works on the defense, what doesn't.
Work, who works.
I think if we've got a losing season to that significance, but something is going on as in development trial, then maybe it's not quoe his head on the chopping block.
As if it was a case of it appeared that they were trying to play their best football and they were just shocking. But like you said, I think the big key with the offense, I think all that well, the team as a whole is they've really looked out this season with injury. All the injuries, the significant injuries come in sort of at the same time, and the O line not being able to have time.
You've got guys going.
In and out with injury, so they can't work together as a cohesive unit because the one goes out with injury, then he comes back, but then another one goes out. That's the thing, and it's just you put in that kind of crumbling wall in front of a quarterbacks that have spent the last three years going through I don't know, the washing cycle of ups and downs and differentness and different that.
If you looked at if he stepped back.
And wasn't a Patriots Sam and looked at that on payper and said, this is what happened to the quarterback.
This is what they did on coaches, this is what.
Is happening with all the O line, and now these are all the injuries that they've got. How would you look at that as a list and say, oh, that team could be successful regardless of like who the coach isn't.
Eat by that?
Yep, yep, it's my point. Yeah, I mean, you know, it causes you to stop and think. You know, listen, I'm I've been doing a lot of thinking about this a lot lately and in trying to sort of pinpoint, you know, what's the next best step to take. I mean, and granted it's above my pay grade, but I mean, for the first thing that that I got to do is I got to figure out is there anybody on this thing worth keeping? Is there anybody right now?
I think that's key. I think that's that's why it's so frustrating.
I think there's there's plenty there that could be successful. It's just you can't get everything to work together because there's there's always something in the way, like an injury or something.
Well, that's that certainly, injury is a big part of it. You're you're absolutely right, uh, and that sort of stunts the growth and the comeback effort and and all that stuff. So uh, you know, I just you know, you're not going to be able to do it all right away when you want it done. It's it's going to be a long, laborious process, and you know it. And I think it, honestly, I think it starts this weekend with Washington. I really do. I mean, I'm not so much. I mean, yeah,
everybody wants to win. You don't want to lose because this is a bottom line business and you have to win games and ultimately to be successful. But at the same time, I think Bill avoids, you know, any extra scrutiny if this team wins number one, but number two is just playing better. If you see execution, if you see things that you know, frankly should have been taken
care of back in August but weren't. But if at least you're seeing them and you can feel better about this team, you know, before all of a sudden done this year, then yeah, I think that saves his job. And I think this team you know, begins to take a big leap forward because they're going to have, you know, the monetary wherewithal to be able to do that next year with the salary cap and the money that they've saved under the cap and all that kind of stuff.
So you know, you can see where there is an opportunity to potentially fix it. But you know, everybody wants it fixed now right away. Everybody wants mac Jones to be the first round draft pick Mac Jones. But the problem is is that we can't erase what happened to him last year. We can't erase what's happened to him this year. He deserves to have a learning curve. It's
been a little steeper than anybody would like. And then he's got others around him that have not performed up to their capabilities, either receiver, running back, especially the offensive line because those are the guys blocking. And so naturally he gets all the vitriol and all the anger and all the hate and all the you know, the the venom spewed outed him because he's the focal point. And yet it's not just him, it's everybody else, you know
that's included here. And so I think we have to try to put at least a little bit more perspective on this thing and say, wait a second, let's just let's pick this thing apart slowly and take our time in getting it right, because you don't want to make a change just to make a change. And that was what I was most afraid of at the trade deadline. The trade then they're going to let somebody go, and they let somebody go just because we feel like we got to give one away.
Here we go.
We gotta sacrifice, you know, a virgin to the volcano or whatever it is that you got to do these days. And and no, that's not the right way to rebuild a team. You've got to remember what this is all about and where this team has been, where this organization has been. If you're going to use any of your track record, you know, as a template as a blueprint for building again, maybe this.
Is the first step.
The lack of movement at the trades, the lack of panic style or whatever. Yeah, the staying fixed and then looking internally to like, actually we won't get rid of Joshua. I know people were sort of maybe this is the first step. Maybe they are finally getting to that especially after the win against the Bill, how successful and the momentum was.
We saw this team.
That's why it was so frustrating to watch the Miami game. Was but hang on a second, where's the team that we still play against Buffalo? Hang on, where's the momentum that we saw against buffow We saw it.
We all saw it.
Yeah, we did see it. And in granted, they didn't play great against Buffalo, but it was certainly their best game of the year, and it was a step in the right direction. And I would tell you that, you know, we didn't see that for two reasons last week against Miami, largely because a I think Miami is a better team number one, at number two, a faulted team, a team full of fault is going to take one step forward and two steps back until they figure out how to
correct it. Claire, I appreciate your time, you know, and the phone call today. It's always good to talk to you. It's just it's not a problem that's going to get solved right away. We saw, as you said, what happened against Buffalo, and then we saw what happened last week at Miami, and you know, I just think Miami is a bad matchup Buffalo is a better matchup, and it's okay to say that team has you beat in personnel. The Patriots need to strive to where they're no longer
beaten in personnel. But we're not gonna get there tomorrow. That's really the bottom line I think of this whole thing.
A real woman could stop you from drinking.
That's a big woman.
It's time to go around the NFL with football guru Russell Baxter.
Now the name is flounder on Patriots playbook. Did you dress this flounder for Halloween last night? Russell?
No, I want it.
Right, I got it, and you were stuffed. Of course you were. My flat of soul is always stuffed. I know exactly.
So.
Uh so, what was the candy of choice in the Baxter household?
Well, you know it's it's funny in my neighborhood. This is gonna sound very odd.
I've it to my cyber.
Candy in the second. We don't get it. We don't get a lot of trick er teeters.
John, Yeah, yeah, we didn't neither.
This year. Happened to live in the street that has no sidewalks.
Right, okay, same here.
Yeah, you know, people don't. It's hard for the kids in our neighborhood. They go around the corner and all that stuff, which is what we used to do when when when we had our young' and but my favorite choice, I see, I like to go for healthy candy. And I've always insisted that Almond Joy has fiber because the coconuts.
Spreaded put the lime in the cookie nut. Yeah, I will also think that.
You can't get these are tough to get. No, But my mother's favorite favorite candy, and I'm a big thing too, is something called gold Boots peanut shoes.
We've talked about this before.
Yes, we had for twenty three years and I got We've talked about it.
But those peanut shoes, I've looked. I can't find them anywhere. Did they make them anymore?
Yeah? They did know they still make them. Where was you know? I was coming back from the Hall of Fame and I stopped up in Pennsylvania to meet up with a friend of mine, Stephanie Kotche, who's one of the people who helped run football Past and presence seriously on Facebook, along with Kelly Morey and Roger Jackson, who I used to work with at ESPN.
The magazine.
We're doing.
We're doing very well. We're getting here. Fourteen hundred people, a lot of people I know, and so on, and I put your stuff on there as well. But anyway, she took me to a place and I think it's called Grandpa Joe's Candy Store, and it had everything from like the last one hundred years. And meanwhile, uh, they run Willie Wonka in the chocolate factory on a continuous stream, because that's you know, Jack Albertson's character was Grandpa Joe might be the name of the store, but I was.
We were in there for an hour, and you know, it's like a blast in the past, but all the older candy and different things like that, and so and so they were in there, of course they were Do.
They have necho Do they have nechl wafers in there?
Oh?
Absolutely yes, John, I'm telling you everything. Everything was in there, anything from your past, bubble gums and you know, the old packaging.
And the little wax the little wax coat bottles. Yep, yeah, those two everything, the cinnamon jawbreakers. Ask ask marine about jawbreakers.
They had dawbreakers.
They will break your jaw.
And they will break your jaw. It's exactly right.
He cracked half a tooth and it went up in his skull. That's why he that's why he missed here a week or two ago, because he had to, you know, go have his tooth extracted, emergency dental surgery off a jawbreaker. Can you believe that? Yes, really and truly because he tried to bite a jawbreaker. It'd be a tough guy for my kids. Yeah, yeah, who was laughing? Then look at daddy, big tough marine. Yeah, there we go. All right, I can eat again. You come in and hit that
candy box tonight. I love it. I absolutely love it. Russell. As you probably well know, there's still some consternation, you know, around these parts because of the Patriots lack of movement around the trade deadline. And to me, the tradeline deadline is is it's kind of like trick or treat, and it's mostly trick except for maybe one, maybe two teams
if you're fortunate. But I just I don't know that there's it's it's there's a lot of there's a lot of risk and very little reward for for most teams
around the NFL. And so I'm wondering if the better part of valor here is just to kind of you know, hold hold your hold your hand, you know, to too close to your vest, and not make moves simply because unless you know specifically the kind of move you need to make to put you over the edge and maybe give you an advantage if you're making a playoff push, why would you make it? Oh?
I agree, Listen, That's the thing that's so much fun about, first off, the game of football. First off is the fact that there are so many ways to win and score points. Okay, this idea of the notion that I keep hearing from certain people is that quote unquote is all about the quarterback. It's now unoffensively, it's now that those are people who have come up with this too push their own narrative because they just want to talk
about quarterbacks. Now, John, you and I have been watching football for a long time, and I've heard you talking with Claire. I mean, what the hell is a quarterback without an all offensive line?
Yeah?
Yeah, okay, what the hell is a quarterback without? This is not gandball. Okay. The idea that some people want to talk about this game in this day and age and still not understand the team concept of it boggles my mind, Okay, but I understand why they do it. You know, there's ratings and you know what I call laziness, and so watch this league. Okay, if that was true, why isn't Patrick Mahomes lighting it up this year? Okay? Because he's clearly the best quarterback in the league by
general consensus. Okay. And I'm sure the Denver Blocks so joy playing against them last week because they are devoided weapons and they do make mistakes, and and the Chiefs, like you know, I'll use my Fredama line last week's five turnovers against the Denver Broncos, a team they had beaten sixteen times in a row. Okay, So it's more than just the quarterback. And listen, we got it. If you're going to do quarterbacks, got a hell of a matchup in Germany this week with the Chiefs and the Dolphins.
We'll get to that, I'm sure later as well. But you have a lot of holes and you couldn't address them during the off season. What makes you think that in the like a couple of days span, you're going to be able to do so? And first off, or probably more importantly, you know, I hear a lot of people talk about why they didn't do this and they didn't do that. First off, you don't know if the
team didn't try to make a move. Okay, true, true, Just because you want somebody doesn't mean the team's going to make him available.
Right, And that's that's what everybody seems to fail to realize. I mean when I, you know, hear trade possibilities, well, they could have traded this guy for that guy, or why don't you get so and so to trade, you know, for so and so on, And I'm like, Okay, that's all sounds good on paper, but what if the team doesn't want to trade number one?
But let's just say you and I are playing poker, okay, and I have an eighth king Queen and a ten mm hmm and an eight? Is it all right if I look over and you said, listen, do you have a jack can spare?
Yeah? Right, Yeah, that's that's what way trade. Yeah, trades are they just I mean, I'm like, you know, and and you know, I use my buddy Eldred as an example here. I mean, what he had to say made a lot of sense, but at the same time, it had about three or four layers to it. I mean, you can't even get through one layer in the trade barely much less three or four are if they do this, then they go and do this, and then they take that and they move it over here and they do this,
and I'm like, well, wha, wha, wha wah. Wait a second, what are we doing here? We're putting together a five hundred word jigsaw puzzles? Fine, repeace jigsaw puzzle? What are we doing? That's not what this is. You can't do it like that. It doesn't work like that, right, And nobody understands that.
If you add a player, by the way, you're getting rid of a player. Yeah, okay, because you have to maintain your roster according to the rules, not the rules of your best friends, but the rules of the National Football League. So listen, we have seen the trade market accelerate over the last couple of years. And we're talking about the mid season one. A lot of trades, obviously we know take place in April, you know, March and April,
even before things begin. But it's like, and listen, we know what the Raiders just did and so on.
Yeah, I'm just gonna ask you about that.
Yeah, and whatever, whatever's deeply going on in that. But I will also remind sick and I heard somebody go on a rant today. Well it's another Belichick. This cycle failed and so on. Listen, Josh McDaniels has made his own bed. He's been fired twice as a coach. He was supposed to go to the Colts and never did, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, but you know I did a little math. Okay, if you include the playoffs going back to two thousand and three, the Raiders
are one hundred and four games under five hundred. Now is that, Josh McDaniels, where the turnstyle of personnel? It's Mark Davis a dysfunctional.
Or it's Mark Davis and he and he pulled the plug before this this regime ever really got a chance to get going. And that's that's that's the that's the ridiculous part of all of this.
Well, John, they haven't won a division title since two thousand and two. Yeah, okay, they haven't want to play off game since two thousand and two. They've only been in the playoffs twice since two thousand and three. Okay,
these are like old Tampa Bay Buccaneers type street. Okay, so it's you know, it's not just the recent stuff now, and you pile on the stuff that happened with Gruden and all that, and even before Mark obviously Al David Okay, god bless his soul and in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but he was a different kind of GM and owner the last his latter stages of his life and so on. I think a lot less patient. So this is a team that has really or I should
say a franchise that has really hit the skids. You know, I remember doing something early in this summer and just talking about like kind of the old school franchises from the seventies, and you know what a magical time that was and that you look, I mean, listen, the Dolphins are having a hell of a year, John, they ever want to play the games? This two SATs.
That's crazy. You know, you don't even realize that.
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, So.
It's funny.
Here's here's so much. Well, Dallas has the NFC Championship Game and won the Super Bowl since nineteen ninety five. So the forty nine ers haven't won the Super Bowl since nineteen ninety four.
Perspective, My friend, we had to put things in perspective.
Listen, think, but think about this. The Dolphins are now on the fiftieth university of their lacks super Bowl tighter.
Right correct.
The Raiders are in the fortieth. That's nineteen seventy three for the Dolphins in nineteen eighty three for the Raiders.
Raiders.
Yeah, okay, So that's why you've got to appreciate what some of these franchises have been able to do. And listen, the Steelers were terrible for about forty years before they turned the corner. The Patriots were, they weren't so good, and then they've had their run as well. It is hard. I mean, this league is one hundred and four years old. We have still only had one franchise win three titles in a row. And the Packers did it before there was a postseason, and the Packers did it in the
mid sixties. No teams won more than three NFL last Super Bowl titles in a row. Okay, no one's ever won three in a row during the Super Bowl era, right. So, and now we have free agency. I think that makes them even harder. There's more parody, there's more teams that are available to jump up. There's more teams team to go from to last to first. I mean, how bad were the the Texans the last couple of years. They win this week, they've already surpassed last seas windows.
Yeah, right, half a year still ago, right exactly. Let's let's uh, you know, let's take a quick look down to the schedule this week. And I guess we could start with the game that's certainly you know, going to be in Germany because the Patriots will be there next week against the Colts. But you know, when you get the Dolphins and the Chiefs, you're probably talking about not just two of the best of the AFC and a
potential you know, AFC kingpin surviving this one. You may be talking about two of the best teams in the NFL going at each other at the mid season point.
Oh no, no question. But it's funny every team that leads their division in the AFC right now, don is six and two Jacksonville, Baltimore, Miami and Kansas City, which I is kind of interesting. And of course Miami and Kansas City. You've got the Tyreek Hill story, yep, who last week reached a thousand yards receiving in eight games, yep, and I know the other, but it's reminded me of West Chandler during the strike in eighty two when he
had one thousand and thirty two yards. But Tyreek Hill already has more touchdown catches than he did all of Black last year, and last year he had a career year in terms of catches and receptions. You know, we might start here in two because there's been no at least in my opinion, there's been no quarterbacks this year jump off the starts as far as performance, they're really happening. I've seen guys with a lot of yards, okay, a love touch up, and I also see quarterbacks with their shirt.
I mean, Lamar Jackson's had a great year running and passing, but he's started over with bullies. Now that's a product of what they do. And people focus on his lack of interceptions, but he's fumbled the ball away five times. So you've seen Jalen Hurts who's got a boatload more turnovers and he did all last season. So why couldn't we see somebody like and Prishian mccaffery's they banged up
right now. But Tyreek Hill and A. J. Brown. You know, I'm not saying they're having Cooper Cup seasons from two years ago, but I don't think they're that far along. Yeah, so this could be a year we see something. And of course we've never seen a wide receiver of the MVP. So we've seen running backs, we've seen quarterbacks. We've even seen defensive players, right, like Allan Page in seventy one and Lawrence Taylor in eighty six. So a different kind
of year. But hyree kill against his old team, that's gonna be pretty fascinating. Here, here's something that blows my mind. The Dolphins and the and listen, I know that the Broncos game against the Dolphins accelerate system middle. Ye, well, who would have thought that eight games into the season that the Miami Dolphins would have eighty four more points than the Chiefs.
Yeah, I wouldn't have envisioned that. No, sure, that's that's a lot points.
For game more. Yeah, and Kansasity's got a little turnover bug going as well. And I'm not here the bashing
because they're they're winning a different way. They're better defensively than they have been, even though they're run defense low exposed, right, lastly, So this is gonna be very interesting because now you've got to start looking at these games with these teams obviously trying to win their division, but these head to heads among the leaders, because when we get down to it, you know who's going to be, say they tie, where's the game is going to be if they meet each
other in the play right, even though there's another matchup in the AFC where they're the teams in first place right now? The Buffalo huge.
Yeah, I was just going to ask you about that one Buffalo and Cincinnati and the other game that I think certainly is worth mentioning here we have a minute or two left, is Dallas playing at Philadelphia. Uh, you know, you know that's certainly gonna uh And it could very well be that the NFC East is also one of the stronger divisions that has been from top to bottom, you know, throughout the course of this this season.
Uh.
And I'm gonna I'm gonna throw Washington in there as well, because the Patriots get the Commanders this weekend. But I just you know, those two games, you know, are are bringing out I think that the cream of the crop, at least at the midway point in the season.
Oh, I think it's a really dynamite plate this week.
I really do.
Because of that, what you get star power wise in terms of the Germany game and then the Sunday night game or actually Sunday afternoon late game, which is the Dallas Philly game, and of course you know Buffalo and Cincinnati. So yeah, it's huge, uh, and not in divisional games, but also within the conference game like the Miami, Kansas City is Jacksonville this week, Detroit's off. They're both leading
their divisions and so on. But yeah, I think it's it's very interesting, and I'll be I'll be I can't believe I'm saying this. I'll be curious to see if Kansas City can keep paint with Miami.
You know.
My mean, it's like, you know, it's like the attract team. It really is. You know. You look at last week against the Patriots, both Wadal and Hill had over one hundred yards receiving to his head a little turnover bug himself the last couple of weeks. Okay, and I get all that, but this will be a very very interesting matchup for a lot of different reasons. And I'm certainly not to dismiss anyone at all, but Kansas City. They
want a different way this year. They don't look comfortably or comfortable offensively, and that's that I think is somewhat troubling for them, at least right now. But my goodness, we still have some teams still have ten games to play, so as we have seen, unless we still have Jacksonville. Last year they were four and eight and caught fire, okay, and then when won a playoff game. So you never listen. If you need any proof about playing right well with
the right time, just look at the World Series this year. Yeah, two years ago, both those teams lost one hundred games.
Which is remarkable.
And yeah, Rangers their first ever World Series. Yep, Okay, I'm done with baseball.
That's all I know.
Well, I'm glad you slipped in my Texas Rangers there. That's good. I appreciate that. Appreciate you, Russell, Thank you, my friend. As always, we'll try to figure this out again. Next week, Patriots get a little trip to Deutsche Land and see if they can't, you know, find a little momentum this weekend against the Commanders and next week.
I wanted to drop some proud Blooper references.
Okay, we could you know, maybe we could do some beer references to I don't know, we'll figure it out. Thanks buddy.
And by the way, it's Frankenstein, not Franklin Frankenstein.
Okay, Frankenstein. I got it, Frankenstein. It is Russell Baxter at backs foot Ball Guru on Twitter. H Patty and Aguwam. You're kind enough to hang in there, buddy. I'm gonna give you the last word here in the playbook today.
No problem, John.
Unfortunately, I think I got the crappy line because I hear feedback.
In the background.
Oh no, but that's all right.
I'll try and get my point across really quickly.
Okay.
So I was a little perturbed that they didn't make a move, but you know, it didn't really bother me all that bad because I think I think a lot of like the negativity that you're hearing is all cannon podder from fans that have never experienced.
Losing with the scheme.
Yeah.
And you know what, I was an original fandwagon around the very first Super Bowl run against the Bears.
I've been around for a while then.
I've been through the highest of the highs and the lowest of the lows. One thing that I brought up that Evan sort of took my point yesterday and built upon it. It was better at articulated it than I did, was I would have liked to have seen to make a move for a guy like Jerry Judy, so they would have at least like an offensive season place and
going forward. I mean, I think with Claire and what you were saying, I mean, if if you're not picking high enough to get one of these franchise styles left tackles like Joe Walter Siscan who, then as much as it pains me to say this, maybe you have to sign Trent Brown and take a guy like j C. Latham and give back another year because I mean, if if he sucks again next year, you're gonna be You're not going to pick up people. You're probably not going to pick up a six year option anyway, but you're
gonna be in the quarterback carouself. And I would rather see them try and build up the offense over the next couple of years rather than straight away future assets to pick a quarterback like oh my lord, Caleb Williams, who I'm not really sold on either. Yeah, if you get one of the top two picks. Or Drake May who looks like he. I mean, he's got the physical traits. You know, he's big, he's got the big arm. But when I watched my I kind of seek and he kind of looks like too.
And he plays for the same program, you know.
Yeah, yeah, you know, Patty, I mean I I you know, I knew that you're usually capable of really sound you know, reasoning and judgment like this, But I could not have picked you to come out at a better time in that regard because it sounded reasonable.
Yeah, And.
I'm sorry part of me. I've been I've been sick. I've been fighting like laryngitis.
And I'm sorry pneumonia.
And I got to say something in Matt, Matt, do you want to prove to your kids that you're a tough guy? You gotta do what we just back in the day and just like beat up somebody in front of him, you know.
Backfire, I beat up my son in front of my daughter. How can he? How can he beat up his kids? Though? And he can't even beat up a job breaker.
Well, we're Marie, you know, no karate, but we know crazy, Like dam Brown said, sometimes sometimes you know, nine times out of ten.
Karate wins out, so it could backfire too.
So you don't want to go you know, you don't want to go crazy.
I pulled a little mcmap on them. I like it. I like it a lot. Thanks Patty. Good to hear from you, buddy, Appreciate you. All right, that's going to wrap it up for this edition of the program. Patriots fans, if you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV, go to buy at toyota dot com. It's Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle of the New England Patriots. Toyota Let's go places and this November, every Friday is like Black Friday at Bob's
Discount Furniture. That means you get surprising unlocks every Friday of the month on top of Bob's every day low prices. Shot Bob's Black Friday Unlocks in store or online. Bob's Discount Furniture the official furniture store of the New England Patriot our thanks to Ben Vollen to the Boston Globe, Ben standing from the Athletic who covers the Washington Commanders. I guess if you took the under you one. I'm not gonna mess it up now. Thanks to Evian Bazaar
Russell Baxter Marine. Good job out of you. All right, same patch time, same patch channel. Next week. Everybody's gonna be in Germany but me, I'm gonna be here. I'm gonna hold down the fort. Talk to you next Wednesday.
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