Patriots Dynasty Doc Recap, Episodes 1 & 2

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Welcome to the inaugural episode of Patriots Dynasty doc Recap Matt Smith alongside Fred Kirsh, Paul Prillo, Mike Doss, where our job here is to do a wrap up show of the Dynasty documentary. The ten part documentary event The Dynasty New England Patriots is streaming now exclusively on Apple TV Plus. The first two episodes dropped on Friday, Episodes one and two, and so we're here to recap that. The schedule of this podcast will be as such, we will drop a new Dynasty wrap up show every Friday

Well, I mean, first of all, the opening of the episode. It's sort of like if you're at an musico and there's an orchestra pit. The first thing they play is the overture, and if you listen closely and remember what you heard, you're gonna hear little pieces of everything that you hear after that in that overture and I think that's what they were giving us with that opening, is you saw all the little pieces of the stories of the dynasty in that opening. And I think they did

Yeah right, yeah, I totally agree. I thought it really got you in it. And you know, for for us that you know, we've we've all been around through a lot of these you know, for the whole entirety of the dynasty, and it brought you right back, you know, and you said, Okay, let's get my popcorn, let's sit down, let's get ready. I want to relive this. And I thought it did a great job. Pictures did a great job too. I mean, there was some great sound bites

It really did.

I mean, that's that's the crazy thing, is you realize.

I mean when in hindsight you forget how long this run was and how many huge storylines there were for twenty years, you know, in and out, And I thought that that part has set a great tone for me.

I just I loved a lot of the new.

Stuff, the behind the scenes stuff, the you guys will make fun of me, But this stuck out to me. This practice footage of Brady wearing a helmet I've never seen him wear before. And I'm a nerd about that, sure, That's how I am.

People.

You know, he had to have a string in his practice, but he had the Peyton Milling helmet on it, and I'm like, what is going on? I've never seen this before in my life. But those are you know, the things that that are just so cool. And you know, just some of the footage where it's just simple b roll and it's these guys hanging out and it's you know, future Hall of Famers in the midst of this run starting to put things together.

I just you know that that wow, we're sitting here with our senior executive producer, Matt Smith. Kudos to him because one of the things I think this documentary is is a testament to film everything, even if you're not going to use it right away or you may never use it. Film everything. Because there's stuff in this documentary that I've never seen before. And thank god we filmed it so right.

And for Fred and I to say it's stuff that we've never seen before. We were working here through the entirety of this and there was stuff that we've never seen before.

Yeah.

Now Matt probably you know, saw a little bit more, you know, he was part of you know, the cruise and whatnot. But to see pictures of practice at like you know, the old stadium at rent them Staates was like cool, Like I've you know, we used to get like five minute windows, Mike, just like we do now. Half the time we didn't go because it was such a pain to get there, you know, like just let me know who died, As Eddie Duckworth used to say, you know, I don't need to know what's going on.

Yeah, no, I don't. But behind the scene in the team meetings, just unbelievable stuff.

No one of the things that I was a big fan of. And maybe that's to Fred's point. Maybe I'm prejudiced because I've seen a lot of the footage. I just thought the interviews, by and large, most of them were tremendously insightful, and I have some favorites, quite honestly, Paul, you and I did a podcast with Scott Pioli within the last four or five months. Yeah, Scott comes off really really well, and I think keeps the thread.

It's a good storytelling. He's a really good story He was seasoned back then because he comes from a pr background right before he came to the Patriots. I mean, he he knows how to speak. He's very articulate, not a lot of ums and your nose and all that. And like you said, Paul, he tells a good story, right.

And it's one thing to have great information and great anecdotes, but to deliver them in a way like the narcotic line to me is just fantastic.

That's and the perspective that I think he brings to that he's away from it now, so maybe he can see things little bit differently than when he was right in the trenches. And I think he realizes, and he said this to us at one point in time, but I think he realizes. She said, wonder if we handled that the right way? Did we do what we really needed to do? But they were just so consumed by winning, and the winning became a narcotic As Paul said, that was really powerful.

And by the way, we're assuming everybody who's watching this has watched the first two episodes, so if you haven't turn it off, go to Apple TV Plus and watch them, because we're going to give you spoilers. Yeah, no question about it.

We are going to ruin everything right because we don't know how this has ended, right. And the other two interviews that I just wanted to that really were tremendous to me. And they were writing character where Tyla and Lauria Maloy very good friends, tremendous players during this team, but their color and their you know, just the way they spoke, the looseness that they spoke, and the way

Yeah, they were the gatekeepers of the old Patriots. I mean, those were the guys from the nineties that were the holdovers that you know, were the leaders of that team. And I think, you know, just their perspective on Brady coming in. I mean, my favorite part of you know, Brady coming in and I'm not giving this thing back, like you know, you're a rookie, you can to give it back, right, That was I mean, those great lines, and I mean those guys just they have so much personality.

I think he's just such a.

Unique point of view in this whole documentary and one.

Of his closest confidences, and the person who brought him into the organization is Bill Belichick, and it's in Bill Bellich is the same thing. He's true to character. He's very buttoned up. His demeanor is very obvious when he's in there, and he's the Bill Belichick that I think everybody would expect. Whereas Scott he's he's opening himself up. He's letting the viewer and the fancy a different side of him that I don't think fan saw when he was here working with the organization. Yeah.

Yeah, And it was eye opening when when Matt and I had him on that Pats from the Past podcast and a lot of the stuff he echoes, you know, in this thing. And I do think that Mike has a good perspective on that. It's like he's the one guy that's like, you know, we didn't have to do it that way. He expressed that regret with Matt and I when we did it. He he comes across, you know, really likable, but you know, just sort of with great perspective,

It's such great stuff. You know, you brought up Bill, and I think Bill in these first two episodes comes off smelling like a rose in my opinion, because you know, they a lot of it is focused on the Brady bled Cell's decision and how gutsy it was to make that call because bled Cell was so close to the owner. You know, at one part they talked about the owner actually talking to Bill about, hey, you know, why aren't you you know, so there was a lot of pressure

It was press conference Bill. That was what I this was.

This was who we see in press conferences that's guarded. You know, even from the initial kind of right crack, you know, it felt like he was getting ready to go to war a little bit. It makes me wonder what it's going to be like when we get into some of the more controversial stuff down the road is built because I think everybody wants to watch this and see the Bill from the Scarneckia induction, the storyteller, the one who's going to tell you a little and we didn't really get any of that, at.

Least in the first two episodes. Yeah, you want to let me know.

Let you guys know one thing totally unrelated really to the dynasty itself. But David NuGen is a guy who not a lot of people listening right now probably even know who he is. Right He was a fellow member of the two thousand draft class, and he and Brady were roommates, and you know, they both played in the Big Ten. Nugent was a defensive lineman out of Purdue. He has some great home footage that he should again.

Back to people's stuff, because they watch well, stuff.

That you've never seen. That's you know that until the point, but it's it's stuff that you've never seen before, and it just gives you sort of a glimpse of just how psychotic Brady is when it came to everything competition wise, it was tech mobile, it was pool, you know, it was drinking beer, you know, like and he even you know, he even lets it slip, like, yeah, maybe you gotta mix a couple of waters in here or there.

You know.

Damian, who he didn't know that he was one of the guys, is one of the boys. I just thought Nugent's place in this as a sort of anonymous member of the Patriots dynasty like that no one remembers, not even you, and I really had much recollection of David NuGen. I thought it was tremendous.

But I find myself catching you know, like this is a long time ago, and you forget. Yeah, even though it was twenty four years ago, they still had camp quarters back then, and like young people were filming everything. They just weren't putting it on their phones and social media, but they were capturing it. And Nugent did that.

And we're gonna need this for the dynasty, right right, twenty five years, so now we're gonna need this.

That stuff was so great, And just to see Brady before he was Tom Brady, just to see him as kind of this puffy faced Michigan grad who you know, you see the seeds of what he became and all the you know, the competitiveness that you guys mentioned, you know, some of the just I love the stuff that they talked about what made him kind of special, the studying he did, and you know, Bill kind of you know, finding that out about him.

I think that's something.

On the outside, as as kind of a casual fan in those early days, was like, well, how can they not go back to bled cell? You know that on the outside, that's how it seemed, But now you kind of see, really there was a lot.

I mean, Paul and I were here on the inside, it was an easy decision for Paul and I even me, You stick with Brady.

Yeah, and I love Drew.

I still love Drew.

But Fred's right, like, once Tom started winning games, it didn't seem like it was that much of a decision to be made. But inside they give you a peek and they show you that it was. And I thought, again the peoli Ernie Adams interaction you know on Drew was interesting, but you prefaced at Freddy when Robert Kraft comes on and says that he had a meeting with Bill, and I think that he used the phrase that he felt like Bill let us down. I felt Bill let us down by sort of refusing to going back to

As it It wasn't a no brainer, and like I said, there was a lot of pressure on Bill right on this decision.

You're watching and listening to the Patriots Dynasty doc recap, and just a final thought on what Robert Kraft said. He said those things that you said, you know, he blamed you know, Bill was on the spot there, but he also I thought what he said to Drew was very poignant, incredibly insightful when he said, look, I'm the owner. I can go up even say I'm the owner. He goes, I can go and tell Billy I can make him do it. I can make him do it, but he's not going to want to do it. And that's not

Yeah, and by at that point, Bill had proven nothing correct, like he didn't have the chops he had, you know, five years later, he had no bona fides by that point. But Robert Kraft let him do his job. And you go back to the girod Mayo. I like to hire good people and let them do their job. That was that was it in action right back then. They hold them accountable, right, and hold them accountable. Yeah.

I don't know if it's sorry but Paul, if I jump on this, but I thought Drew looked great too, And I mean it's just why I Drew, even through this whole thing, class is still a Boston legend and is still just beloved by Patriot fans. Still, you know the way he handled this whole thing, and as we go through it, it's just you realize how hard that is.

Think he is.

I just don't know. Sorry, Paul, I know he's used your guy, but but I thought it was great.

So as we pivot from episode one to episode two and Fred you talked, I thought one of the things that really struck you that you were talking about is how relieved Bill Belichick was in the immediate aftermath of the Saints game. If everybody recalled the Rams game, you know where they played the Rams pretty tough. That's the greatest show on turf. I think there was a little bit of a misrepresentation in my opinion in the documentary.

Oh my god, it was like the weight of the world was off his shoulders. And it showed me how much pressure was on him. We know Bill doesn't like to single guys out, especially right after games, but in this press conference after the Saints game, you could see and hear the relief, and he went on and on about how Brady played, and you know, and it was, you know, thank God, because my career is on the line here. I've put my career on the shoulders of

I mean, just to Matt's point about, you know, I did the two thousand and one podcast where I interviewed a lot of those guys about that game, and you know, echoing everything Matt said that. You know, they they felt like that was a turning point for them. But it's another example of kind of we're not telling this story from our perspective or from the perspective of that particular

Yeah, and we're mixing up a couple of things here because we when we watched it, we were like, they didn't portray the Rams game correctly, because that's what you're talking.

It's a big criticism I would have, you know, like's talk point. Yeah, we talked about, you know, the way it opened and everything, all the things that we loved about the way they sort of presented the documentary. There's things I didn't like either, and this is one of them because I think Mike is absolutely right and I've talked to a lot of those players and they talked about that game as being of like a validation the

As you said, Fred, and I think in that Rams game, three Rams got carried off the field, right, you know, right? Yeah. The other thing, this is just a little thing.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought in Bill's description of Hey, we're going with Tom. Now that's it, no more splitting reps. Tom's our guy. I'm doing the best thing that I can for the team, team, very famous SoundBite, because that's what mister Kraft would want.

Me to do, right, That's what he's paying hey to do.

A year plus into the relationship, it wasn't Robert, it was mister picked that it was mister Kraft, and that just I think that shows you a little bit how tenuous maybe that situation. His career is on the line.

That so now going back to the you know, the end of the Rams game, this is why it was so like, you know, the relief that Fred talks about with with Belichick after the Saints game, which was the very next week. In between we go back and we hear from Drew and Jew says a line, Uh, you know, I was kind of thinking that maybe some of the shine is off this nickel and I'm going to get a chance to play now insightful, you know, And instead Bill doubled down. Yeah, you know, in the face of

Closed it. Close the door.

And I think to your point, Paul, that that point maybe could have been illustrated a little bit better by why did he stick with Brady?

Because the team kind of stuck in that game.

They made it to be this huge with these two guys, but in reality, it wasn't so bad. Brady's play wasn't so bad, and they picked and chew I thought picked and choose some som bites. Chris Collinsworth probably didn't have his Pro Football Focus numbers yet you know he hasn't he hasn't played well in the last three gad I don't even really remember that being the narrative at the time. It was how bad Brady was playing. For the most part, Brady did a great job of managing that team, staying

There was an editorial license taken there.

We spoke about some of the interviews and who we thought shined during this and a person that fans haven't seen a lot of. And I thought this guy throughout the entire ten parts of this documentary was really good.

And that's Ernie Adams.

And in this episode too, the contempt that Ernie has and I'm sure he spoke for many when he described the scribes and if you're not in a building, if you're not in a building.

I didn't love Nie.

I thought Ernie was really good.

I thought Ernie was really good.

I thought that there was a whole thing in the second episode where it was cheese Ball Central, where they have him re enacting a trip from his home to the to the snowball game, and I just thought that was just over the top schlock. I describe everybody calls reporter scribes like what I like to call them the scribes, which everybody calls a newspaper reporter or ascribe. And you know,

To hear that from his mouth validates what we already kind of knew. Yes, they detest the media. Yes, both Ernie and Bill are thickest thieves. Yes, their high school they've known each other at their high school. They could talk without talking, you know, they know each other so well, and if Ernie felt that way, you know Bill did too well.

I will say in fairness what I did like about Ernie. I thought Ernie and Scott did a great job of sort of breaking down play So's deteriorations quarterback really and I think a lot of that. You know, Scott told the story, but a lot of it was from from Ernie. Matter of fact, Scott actually impersonates Ernie a little bit, yes, when he doesn't and doesn't spot on. I think Ernie called under a wildernised under siege and it wasn't wrong.

One of the things that you touched on that I think you were impressed by is at the end of episode two, you can see the narrative being told about where Bill was at that point time in his career, where Tom was at that point time in his career, and how they sort of pushed one another.

What was your takeaway? I love that. And you know we had the debate Brady or Bill and who made who? And this proved because you're hearing their words. At that time, they pushed each other. They were both football junkies. It was, as Brady said, football from morning until night, and that's all we talked about, and we loved it. And Bill said he pushed me to be a better coach, and I think Bill pushed Tom to be a better quarterback.

That was one of my favorite spread, which just I think we get so caught.

Up in, you know, Bill and giving his knowledge to Tom, and I don't think it gets enough credit to Tom saying you know, or Bill saying that he pushed me that I knew I had to be as prepared. I don't think that that's an angle that you know, really has gotten talked about.

Much or even really highlighted. That was one of my one of my favorite parts.

And I think that now that we've seen how the story has ended, but we get to go back and see how that relationship and ships started, and it reminds you that it wasn't how things ended, you know, it wasn't just like that. There was a different part of it. The relationship started in a completely different place, maybe in a more innocent place, but the respect that they have for each other, knowing what each of them did for each other, really came across and.

There's no way they could have done what they did without that being the case. Correct, You know, it.

Was I like you saw it, you know, the whole quarterback school like you just I do think that was, you know, a really insightful ground floor of where it started. You know, like those you know, like you like you kids on Twitter, Mike, you know how it started? You know, how's how's how's it going right?

Whatever? Oh?

You know me, I don't know, just enough to get in trouble just a little bit. But it's one of those. That's how it started. It started with Bill saying he pushed me to be a better coach and Tom saying it was quarterback school every day. Yeah, that's how it started.

I think, you know, you know and realized too of how much these two guys really kind of needed each other. And I mean you highlighted Fred of how things were kind of tenuous for Bill at that time, and you know, had had they not come along for each other, who knows how would have gone from a kind of.

Like it reminds me of good will hunting. I mean, Matt Damon comes in and he's he's smart. I mean, but it took that professor to see whoa and he pushed him and pushed him to be better. And uh, I again, perfect marriage.

Okay, Mike, I'm going to ask you this. I don't know what you had for a Did you ever preconceived notion before you watch this? Now that you've seen it, how did it meet, reach, go below, or exceed your expectations?

Sure? Well, I would say that it definitely met my expectations. I assumed, you know, we were going to get what we got, which was a lot of behind the scenes footage that I haven't seen. And you know, you guys

And you know, we know that the reason that a ten part Dynasty documentary is getting made about this team.

Is because there was a lot of good and there was a lot of you know, bad and controversial and all those things. So I think to me purely kind of embodied that of the perspective now.

Of knowing what we know now and how it went.

Those are my favorite parts. And really, I mean to be honest, did the one podcast, just did an o three podcasts.

I know these teams so well right now, I'm.

Really excited to get to the stuff that that I haven't seen before, and especially the stuff later on when I wasn't pursuing those little tidbits here and there. So I'm really excited to keep going into it. That That's what I'm most excited about right now.

So these first two episodes that that we got to see, you know, part you know, I'll take a spot from from the first one. You're kind of another minor thing that you forget. And I don't remember seeing this live. Pretty early on, there was a thing in Boston called Sports Final, Yeah, with Bob Lobell it was, and it

It's Drew Bledsoe's job.

And I'm just like really insightful about by Bob Lobell to see not only what was happening but where it was going to go. Yeah, and you know, you know Bob a little bit, Matt, I mean, he lived for that button.

Guys like that look on his face and he was like, yeah, I don't know is this I'm not saying it's a quarterback controversy, but it kind of looks like it could be one, you know.

And then at the end of the second one when you wrap up unbelievable locker room footage from that, from the snowball, from the tuck Rule game, even comments from the players it was over, like they still they still watch it now, they still think it was a fumble, like it's it's just to me, it's so funny how

There was somebody mentioned the word innocence. There was a lot of innocence. Yeah. Then, and you know what struck me a lot was the craft small sea behind all of this. Uh, Jeff Benedict and Matt Hamichick, you know, the director, we know how hard they work. We had you know, the Patriots had nothing to do with this in terms of producing it, directing it, editorial say anything like that. We cooperated in giving them the footage that they asked for, So we know how hard they worked.

Yeah, and to find a nugget like Sports Final, Yeah, think about the researchers and the people who are doing that kind of work.

That was great. A lot of hard work and craft behind it. And you know, you've seen it so you know that, the style of it, the interview, it's just it's top class. And then you see Ron Howard and Brian Grazers involved as well. So this is this is. I'm really excited to see the rest.

So we're talented enough to put footage of me in there, so yeah.

I can't wait for the rest of it. Yeah.

So you have been watching and listening a Patriots Dynasty doc recap and we will come to you after every time the documentary the documentary series drops the two episodes uh, which will be every Friday for the next five weeks, and we encourage you to engage with us because we will be giving away books of the Dynasty right here. Email us your comments about the documentary to web radio at Patriots dot com with the subject Dynasty. If we