This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bar Lazar. Hello, everybody nailed it has always bara. Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bar Evan texts me and because in so many words, he's worried. He is worried about the offense, worried literally since the snap after that text.
Yep, it's all because me.
They have been locked ever since you sent that text. You fixed the offense.
With that text. You're giving me credit.
We might have to get well just you did it, but then it was me. But then the next day they got off to a little bit of a slow start. You texted me again. And then mac Jones said his best practice he's had since the Giants practice is rookie year. So just keep sending the text. Okay, that's what it comes down to. This whole season comes down to, Well, Evan keep sending those tests.
I guess that was why the last couple of days haven't been as good, because I didn't send you the text. The offense was not doing well. Sure well I will. I will say that. You know I say that, and I don't want people, Oh my god, the offense is due fine on a panic button here everybody. But I do have a take about the offense that I think is my big take, you know, my opening monologue take at the show. We'll get to that here in a second,
but it's Alex barth Evan Lazar with you. Patriots catch twenty two, next hour and thirty or so hour hour thirty. We'll see how long we go. Buddy can jump on the phone lines. Already, people jumping on the phone lines. Alex, eight five five.
I'm totally fine with this being a call heavy show.
Eight five to five, PATS five hundred web radio at Patriots dot com is the email address if you want to jump in on the emails. We'll read some of those as well. But here here's my opening take of where things stand currently at this hour, twelve practices into the Patriots training camp, and believe it or not, just over twenty four hours away from the first preseason game.
And I was thinking, as I was walking down here to our radio studio that you know, there's a lot going on in the tunnels right now and things around Jillette Stadium live here getting ready for tomorrow. And it dawned on me playing football tomorrow like this is we we just really cruised right through the first twelve practices, basically two weeks of practice here at Gillette and along with my other big take away from the last week or so it was, you know, been about a week
since we've been on the air on this program. This is where the men separate themselves from the boys. All right, So at this point, and Alex you can speak to this as well, this has all been set in the table. In my opinion, and some of my takes my today that I'm gonna go you know, I wrote something on Patriots dot Com seven takeaways from the last three days
of practice. That's some of the things I'm going to go off of here to just kind of pilot this show here facilitates, as you would say, But the big thing is this is where the men separate themselves from the boys. The first twelve practices to me, are all setting the table for the two weeks to joint practices
in the three preseason games. As excited as I am about some of the player the younger guys as some of the rookies, and we'll get to that here in a little bit, I don't think that any of it has really gotten to the point with any of these guys where I feel like, besides maybe Christian gon Zales,
this guy has superstar stud potential. Yeah, this is all about setting yourself up for a roster push, maybe a role push for certain guys when it really gets real, which is what's gonna happen over the next two weeks. So that's number one point number two, twelve practices into training camp. I know your station, Alex loves to talk about the quarterbacks. We like talking about the quarterbacks too.
We'll talk about the quarterbacks, and that's certainly a major storyline, But at this hour, twelve practices in the biggest storyline surrounding the Patriots right now is the offensive line, and I don't think it's particularly close. Quarterback. I think they're gonna be okay. There are they gonna be great? Maybe not. They'll be good enough. They'll be good enough. Receiver from what we've seen. If you put all the receivers together,
wide receivers, tight ends, even backs, I would say good enough. Again, we're we're at least getting seazed to get degrees at this point at those two spots coordinating.
We both know exactly what that looks like.
Coordinator a a so far for Bill O'Brien in my book, the one the one place where I have to say twelve practices and that has not looked pretty on that side of the football is the offensive line, and it's it's it's hard to press the panic button. And I don't want to press the panic button on the line because this is better than me coming in and saying Trent Brown, Cole Strange, David Andrews, Mike Onwenu and let's call or McDermott or Riley. Really, let's save both those guys.
It's better than me coming in and saying those guys are getting their butts kicked in practice, because that's all you got, right, that's your group, and if those guys can't block anybody, then you're really in trouble. So in some ways I feel a little bit better about the fact that this is essentially the B squad along the offensive line.
In some cases, I think it's the C squad that's been generous. Yeah, and it hasn't looked good. And I think the last three practices in particular, since Judaan has been back, it has really not looked good. And I think the big thing is is that it's gotten in the way of the consistency that we saw with the offense last week at Wednesday and Thursday practice, the offense
was really clicking. They were moving the They were not only moving the football down the field a little bit more with each day, but they were hitting at a pretty high rate, like we're talking about you know, Mac going like twelve for eighteen in practices and you know, really having a very few incompletions or miscommunications or anything like that. At these last couple of days, we've seen some of the flash as Mike is SICKI one handed catches,
DeVante Parker walked it off. Was that Sunday on Jack Jones on the deep ball down the left sideline. But it hasn't been consistent because they can't block anybody. I again my panic meter on this am I pressing the button yet. No.
I think we need to talk about some of the contingency plans though, of how they can make this work and piece this together. Mainly, it's health. Health is the biggest one. We all know that if they have their interior three cold Strange Andrews and Onwenu healthy and out there and ready to go for Week one against Philadelphia. I'm not that concerned because that way there, if there's not interior pressure on mac Jones, I think he'll be able to handle the edge pressure a little bit better.
If it's coming from everywhere, or really, what the bigger problem is is when you just don't know where it's going to come from. Right, you have too many weak links and it could be coming from here, could be coming from there. If he can rely upon the shelf, that's what you know, the three guys up front in
the interior. If he can rely on the shelf to set the depth of the pocket, then I think he can navigate it and step up in the pocket, quick release, you know, all the things that Brady used to do to mitigate really good edge rushers. The game protector correct, I'm not as concerned, But at the same time, it has the right tackle spot is a major, major red flag.
And I understand people that also aren't one hundred and ten percent convinced that Trent Brown is going to be a good player, or I should say, consistent player for them. Last year big time peaks and valleys for Trent. He had some really good games, he had some really bad ones. They need Trent to be more steady. Whether it doesn't necessarily need to be all pro every single week, but they just need him to be steady at left tackle. So where they go with this offensive line is a
big one. I think at this point I am more I am more inclined to say that the offensive line is going to be there their downfall than quarterback or receiver talent. And you know me, I with DeAndre Hopkins and some of the other moves that they made this offseason, I've been all over the number one receiver thing. I've talked a ton about Mac and how if he's going to be able to elevate it the offense and all
that stuff. I don't know if I'm really twelve practices in as concerned about all those things as I am about the offensive line. I know the quarterbacks are sexy to talk about. The skill positions are also fun to talk about, and we will, But to me, that's the biggest storyline right now is are they going to be able to figure this out along the offensive line? And I think we can go over like I mentioned a couple of different configurations, but I just wanted to get your take on that.
Yeah, No, that's been my take since May really has been. If anything undoes this offense, I hope people want to want to complain about Mac Jones, but Mac Jones is gonna be good enough. It's not gonna be the quarterback. It's not gonna be the coaching staff. It's not even gonna be the receivers. The receivers are they're fine, they're fine. If anything undos this offense, it's gonna be the offensive line,
in specifically the tackle position. To your point, they'll get healthy in the middle, and honestly, even if they don't get healthy entirely, I trust the backups in the middle more than I trust the backups to tackle. Like Antonio Mafi has shown me something.
Yeah, I don't know, come on a little bit.
Jason Hines has come on a little bit, so like they have something in the middle there, whereas I really don't feel comfortable about Riley Reeve. Connor McDermott is limited, and after that, I mean, you're just guessing. Andrew Stuber's guy who hasn't played football in a year. City sow is or City which which one was it? Again? So City So is a totally developmental player and could be a player down the road.
But he's a project rough camp for city. So yeah, so urban city as we call it.
PU Okay, it's it's been uh, it's it's really kind of a mess attackle right now, and that is gonna be if if anything undoes, then it's gonna be that. And I know you said, well, yeah, I know you said, we'll talk about combinations. Yeah, I still think the conversation needs to be there about Mike go and WINU. Yeah, going back out to right tackle, because let's get.
To that in a second.
I would just say, as much as I was convinced that that was the right answer coming into camp, I feel even stronger now that's that's the best option.
So I definitely am with you at this point on that. I don't know if I was ever against you, but I'm strongly with you now. But I first want to talk about the guys that they are playing at tackle. I think Riley Reef has been better in pads than he was in the spring in the first couple of days of camp, so I'll give him that, But every
I still maintain with him. He's he's solid in a phone booth, like if he doesn't have to move his feet a ton and he doesn't have to get out on an island in pass protection, and he can just play the game in like a two by two box, then he's gonna be fine. Yeah, but you can't play tackle in a two by two box. That's not the position. The position that's a guard, right, it's not tackle. So
that's a big part of it with Reef. But I do think that his power and his ability to anchor and things like that have held up okay better now that I would have thought about him. Maybe, I don't know, eight days ago or something like that. Connor McDermott has completely fell into a rut. I don't know what is going on with Connor McDermott, And I hate singling out individual guys and and and being negative, but he's had he must have nightmares about josh u Ja at this point.
He he cannot handle josh U J's speed. He goes right around him every single time, whether it's one on ones, it's team Judaan, same thing right around him. Uh. And then cityso has been.
He's a project player.
What's a nice word to say, He's a project City So has Has is a project player. Yeah, but let's let's leave it at that. So you're looking at those three guys, and I I was a little bit optimistic. He has the measurables. He's a good athlete that maybe City So is going to be a Mike on WINU, right like we all I think we all thought Mafi would be that. But I'm just talking about in terms of, oh, maybe he has some upsidee yeah, it can play. I no longer think that twelve practices and I don't think
Citi Show is a factor in any of this. In fact, I think if City So doesn't turn it around, that he's a prime Foxborough flu candidate. I would also say maybe the same about Jake Andrews, who has struggled as well in camp. So you mentioned Mafi, and uh, they really like Cody Russy as well, Russie. I think it's rusy.
They really like Cody Russi as well. So maybe he's a player that can play at guard and then, believe it or not, I know that he's kind of forgotten along with Andrew Steuber sometimes who also has been up and down. By the way, but chasing Hines the last two practices in pads is starting to get it a little bit better in one on ones. Better in the run game marginally, But I've seen a little bit of something out of him compared to some of the other practices.
And he's bigger and longer than some of these other options. He's he's like six three three ten. He's a bigger tackle or bigger guard excuse me, than somebody like Mafi who's just built like a stout brick. So I'm with you. I think that your guard depth because you made it this way, but that's ship is sailed. Yes, your guard depth is better than your tackle depth right now. So I know they've been reluctant and they've been steadfast. Matt grow got up there before the draft right saying that
we like on at guard, we're gonna keep him. I mean that's going back to last year. I think Bill said it. Yeah, I know they want to keep on Oney at guard. But at this stage, when hopefully big Mike gets back out there and gets off pup, not only does it make sense for them as a team, but you can sell it to him pretty easily. Oh yeah, contract here, dude, You go play right tackle at a high level in a contract year, maybe the rest of the league starts looking at you as a right tackle.
All of a sudden, you're looking at a at a pay day, a pay.
A couple more million dollars a year.
Yeah, and I think that's an easy sell for him. So Mafi Russy, Russie Hines, if one of those guys can show well in joint practices, put some good preseason film on tape, then maybe maybe they allow you to do that, and I would feel a lot better. You know, from left to right about Trent Strange Andrews. Let's call it Mafi on WHU then I think I do right now, Trent Strange Andrews on when McDermott or Reef just based off of what we've seen, but I got to see
it on film. And that's the best part about the preseason games to me is the offensive line play. You can't review practice film, so it can sometimes get lost in the in the in the trees in there in practice and it's hard to kind of evaluate it live. That's why one on ones are so valuable. So I think that it can be fixed. And if you have one weaker spot, and especially if it's a guard that's really easily protected or schemed.
Around, rather a guard than whole tackle.
And it's if it's just one spot. Bill O'Brien and and Adrian Clum will figure that out. So that's why I'm not hitting the panic button yet, because this isn't their group. If Trent Brown was a turnstile and Cole Strange didn't look like he was taking that next step forward, and David Andrews looked at his age or was starting to look older or something, then I would say, oh crap, like this is there. These are their guys and they
can't block anybody. Not getting too crazy about like the fact that James Farrens is not holding up against Christian Barb's.
Is it crazy to say we basically haven't learned anything at the Offensive because that's what happened. I'm where I was when camp started, maybe a little more down because the two guys we have I've seen Riley Reef and Conor McDermott, really Reef, those are the two guys I think we've seen more in anybody, and they've struggled. But yeah, yeah, it's you know, I think a part of the offensive line conversation was will, how does Trent Brown look? We haven't seen him a ton can't answer that is Cole
Strange taking that year too. Jump haven't seen him, can't answer that, so there's some uncertainty there. But what we have seen, the limited amount we have seen from the guys that figure to be factors, has not been good.
Yeah, that's fair, all right, A couple more things and then we'll get to the phones and the emails. I want to talk about the quarterbacks. I'm sure we'll talk about the quarterbacks throughout the show in some capacity, but I know that this show and I don't want to necessarily lump you in here, Alex, but we sometimes come off a little bit as pro macll I at least myself and last year certainly talking you know about Mac.
I'm pro being right. I'm just saying what I think is going to end up being correct.
Fair, But I feel like some people, you know, come at me. I'll give mack hank whatever. I'm sorry, but objectively speaking, there's nothing to do with my feelings on it whatsoever. The last six practices since we've been on the air on the show, Macaz out played Zaby. He just simply has and Zapi, I actually think, in some ways has regressed. I don't know what's going on with him with the side arm stuff in the in the underneath throws. I think that still can I tell you
my theory on that, Yeah, you can. I still think throw for throw put it differently. I still think down the field they're about equal. Like, I don't think either one of them is significantly ahead of the other in terms of like playmaking or down the field throw making. In terms of like dropping dives, I think they both can drop some dimes at the same rate if you will.
Down the field. The smaller stuff like hitting the layups, the underneath throws, the timing to the short and intermediate and accuracy really I think is even more important than the timing accuracy to the short and intermediate area, and how just the field book pre snap. I think all that really has favorite Jones pretty much since the second week a hand.
As it should, as we've expected with Zappi, the big problem for me and I actually thought he had a really good start to camp and practice. He had whatever it was, day four, whenever that Sunday was.
That Sunday practice, Yeah, he looked really good.
And since then the since then the issue has been the past deflections, and that goes back. It was an issue last year even when he was playing well, balls are getting knocked down on the line of scrimmage, balls are getting knocked down at the catch point. I wonder if that's why he's doing more of the release points stuff to try to throw the ball around defenders.
That was my theory as well.
But that feels like an over compensation, yeah, because if you're going to destroy your mechanics, then it doesn't matter. Because now you're seeing him misthrows and he's over three. He's been overthrowing a lot, and I think that's why, because he's changing his mechanics. He knows he's going to put more on the ball, right, and so that it's a little concerning because I think as as much of an issue as the past deflections were. Overall, he's playing
fine and it's nobody's perfect. Just kind of work your way around it and play your game. And it was true early in camp when he struggled. He had a couple of practices when he was good. But it's it's it's feeling like that again that he's just he's he's trying to be more than himself. He's not letting the game come to him. He's he's pushing himself a little too much and it's it's hurting him. So I'd like to see what we'll get. I think we'll get a
good look at him on Thursday night. I'd like to see him as dumb as this sounds, just relax, Yeah, just go out there and throw the ball. Just go out there and play catch.
Both cornerbacks are susceptible to relaxing, you know, to getting a little bit in their own heads.
Oh.
Absolutely, But we're not gonna see mac thirst yay, So I just want to see Bailey's appy. Go out there and play catch. Just go out there, yeah, you know, in the words of Drew Bledsoe, just go out there and sling it right, have fun and and.
It's good advice for both these guys.
When he did that on Sunday, like you could tell he was loose, he was in it, you know, he was letting the game come to him and it was working. And he hasn't gone back to that as much since.
Yeah, he's made some of the the better downfield throws in the camp. Yeah so far. You know, the one to trade Nixon I think is probably still the best, the best throw down the field, But the inconsistency in the first and second level throws is actually surprising to me because he's a pretty accurate guy. Like he's somebody that can control the ball. This is we're not talking about somebody that that you know, just can't hit the broadside of a bar, like he usually has pretty good
accuracy and control, even going back to college. But he's had I think you're right. I think he's experimenting with some different arm angles, some different vision sight lines and things like that to try to see around the offensive line and get the ball around defenders. And maybe that
mechanically has thrown him off a little bit. But yeah, I hope that he plays better tomorrow night too, because right now, I just don't think it's particularly close, and it's not about the drama between Bill and Mac or anything like that.
Although as somebody points it out on I forget where I saw the other day. But Bill Belichick has also not said Bailey's appy's name, in addition not saying Mac Jones's name.
I got to be honest, quarterbacks, I gotta be honest with you, and this is this is no inside information, So don't please don't, like, you know, syndicate this or something. I don't think that Bill is crazy about either of them.
I don't think he's crazy about the quarterback position in general.
No, I don't think it's that. I think he understands, like you know, like we we listen to him gush about like Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson, and you know, as much as everybody kind of think thinks that it's still not real for some reason, Brady right like, you know,
you hear him talk about those types of guys. That's why I don't think that this has anything to do with personality or anything like that, any of the drama that people try to make it about, because I don't I think he kind of looks at both of them the same in terms of their their makeup or or
they're who they are, you know, as as athletes. And I don't know, I don't think that he's like crazy about either one, to be honest, But I think that at the same time, I think that there is a push organizationally that you use this first round pick on Mac Jones. You did him no favors last year. He was on the right trajectory after his first season week in debate whether or not how good he really was as a rookie, but he was certainly good enough as a rookie.
They made the playoffs, and.
You have more invested in mac Jones, you just simply do. And at the end of the day, if it's not going to be, if Sappy's not going to go out there and light up practice and significantly outplay mac Jones, where you have no choice but to make a change. It's going to be really difficult organizationally to walk away from a fifteenth overall pick heading into year three and say we're gonna go with this kid from Western Kentucky.
And by the way, that's the right approach. It's way too early based off what he showed you in twenty twe and we've talked about this to cut bait on him and give up when he essentially has had one real year. Last year was not a real year.
Okay, speaking of way too early, I'm gonna just throw some water on on on something that I know that some people are gonna get annoyed with this, and maybe even you that I'm gonna do that.
Guy, if you're going where I think you're going.
We got a chill with the rookie receivers.
Oh, I thought I was close. I was close.
We got a chill. We got a chill, just hear me out.
I don't know if we got chill tomorrow.
I mentioned off the top that this is where we separate the men from the boys. In my opinion, Da Mario Douglas especially, but also a little bit Kaishawn Booty as well. Both those guys have set the table to give themselves opportunities to really make a push, not only to make the roster, but maybe in Douglas's case, I think,
have a role on this team this year. But in terms of talking about either one of those guys as real whatever you wanted to call it, starter, impact player, top three receiver, whatever phrase terminology you want to use. I've seen this movie before, I've learned from past mistakes on these types of things. Until the games and the joint practices start, all of this is just appetizers, and you have to you have to take it with a
grain of soul in that respect. And the main thing is and just with Douglas, because I think Booty's still he's he's popped a little bit. Nope, you know, jumps aside, he's popped. But it hasn't been quite as consistent as to Mario Douglas. With Douglas in particular, he has twenty
three catches through twelve training camp practices. Nineteen of them have been from Bailey's abbey, So he's not We used to do this with Brady right, And the big one I always remember was Austin Carr, And I think Tomorrow Douglas is a better player than Austin Cars. But Austin Carr caught like all of his passes in that camp that everybody was raving about how good Austin Carr was from the backup quarterbacks. He never caught a pass from Brain.
But we've seen to Mario Douglas. To Mario Douglas has tortured ma because Jones in this camp hees he is. And that's it. We all think Marcus Jones a good corner and I'm not changing my opinion on that. I believe he's a good cornerback. We've seen Marcus Jones be sorry. We've seen Tomorrow Douglas be Jack Jones. Yeah, I've seen that a couple of times. I if you want to say, temper the expectations, like I see people say, oh, what are his Rookie of the year odds? Yeah, you can calm down. I see that.
I also see like starter, Like you want to call that a top three weeks.
Here's what I'd say he has. We're two weeks into this, We're two weeks into this five week process, right, Yes, he has checked every box to this point. That is the way I look at it. He has not done anything to this point to lead me to believe this is fake. Now, if he comes out tomorrow night and just isn't a guy like just has a bad game, all right, maybe we need to slow down and revisit them.
But I'm not saying it's fake. I'm just saying that I'm still in the camp that we're talking about him making the team.
Oh, I think he's making the team.
I don't think we're talking about him having a big contribution yet. So there's Troy Brown said, too small of a sample side.
But but what I will say is there's this second part to that that we can get into because it's not part of his rise up. The proposed depth chart isn't just him, right, although we've seen him, you know, in practice the last couple of days kind of take on more of a role. But I think when you have a guy that again he's checked every box. It was you know, first was all right, Well, like, let's
just see how he looks as a player. All right, really good route runner, he's explosive, cool, but he's small. Let's see what happens when the pads come on and he's out there throwing his body around and he's setting blocks and he's you know, breaking off routes at the top through coverage. All right, he's checked that box. You know, you're gonna have the preseason game, you're gonna have joint practices. Those are gonna be more boxes. But he keeps checking
those boxes. And he hasn't done anything yet. Correct me if we're wrong. Has he done anything yet that you can point at that and say that's why he won't be an NFL player?
No? But because But what I will tell you is is that you all can take your one on ones and seven on sevens and throw them out the door. I do not care that to Mario Douglas is undefeated in one on ones. It's irrelevant, It doesn't it's not real football. But but you see what kind of runner.
You see the movement? Absolutely, But what's going to happen when that corner is playing underneath him, and then the safety is playing at the at the intermediate level a robber defender, and then the next defender is at the post.
He's getting his Is he going to be able to run through three guys? If he's getting that kind of attention, that's excellent.
But it's not about just the like that's just the structure, right, Like that's just NFL football, so and one on ones is just not.
But we don't know. I'm not going to blame the guy for something that hasn't happened.
I'm just I'm not either. I'm not blaming him.
He hasn't had a chance to check that. But I'm just saying I think the hype is valid because he checked every box at this point. I think there needs to be an understanding within that hype that there's a long way to go. Yeah, but I totally think the hype is valid. Kaishun Booty is a little bit of a different situation. He's more high floor high ceiling, lol floor just because he's not a six.
Kashan Booty has done exactly what I expected, was have these like isolated flashes where you're like, oh, there is freshman year Kai Shan Boudie again, but it's it's not consistent like Douglas. Douglas has consistently been open when he's been out there. Whether it's against the twos or whatever, it doesn't really matter. And you also see the quick twitch. You see the route running, you see the change of direction.
You see that. I mean the route that he ran, and I just crapped all over one on ones, but like the route that he ran against Miles Bryant yesterday, and one on ones was absolutely discussed.
But that's my point that you look at that. I'm not saying that I'm looking at the one on ones and saying he won all his one on ones. He's an NFL player, Yeah, But what you do look at is you look at and you say that is an NFL route. Yeah, that is a route that can beat an NFL cornerback. And when's the last time that a younger you were saying that about on a regular bas.
And of course I just went on this whole thing about one on ones irrelevant and I'm going to credit him for a one on one, but you were the best part of that route was the little peekaboo that he did. Yeah, because the he we knew he can move the like his feet. He's fast, he's got bursts, he's got quickness. But that little detail at the top of the route to headfake like he's gonna go out and then break it off back to the inside. That that's what sold the route. That's what made the route.
I mean, look, it shows up on his tape at Liberty. He's a very nuanced detailed I remember one thing I watching again, this is like super nuanced. I don't know if you saw his shoulders. Yeah, when he runs the route, he sells things his shoulders like he can sell things with his shoulders incredibly. Well, that was the one thing that stood out to me. So no, I look, I still think that he can I think he can play.
I think he's an NFL player. I mean I'm comfortable saying that, you know, to what extent of an NFL player? Is he top of the depth chart? Guys? He rotational guy.
That's only just that's my only point.
It's look, it's too soon to know that I'm not saying he is. There isn't. I'm saying it's too soon to know. But I'm not going to hold it against him that it's too soon to know I'm not holding it again, you're holding it against him a little bit. I'm not holding it holding it against the fans.
I'm holding against the hype, and I'm not I'm not trying to like I'm not trying to attack anybody for for hyping him up. I'm trying to just I'm trying to be a realist with people like you come, you come and listen to our show, and we're not gonna tell you like about Malie Cunningham, like I know you probably will, but like in a you know what I mean, Like, we're not gonna sit here and say like this this
guy or that guy. We're trying to tell you what's real and what's not, what's actually going to translate, what's actually going to make an impact. And I'm convinced at this point of camp that de Mario Douglas should be on this football everything that, But I'm not convinced of anything else.
But I've seen a bunch of things that I know will translate. Everything he's done looks like it's going to translate. It's just to what extent. But given their history wide receiver, just as a six round pick in general, I think getting that far is worth getting a little excited about a little bit, a little bit it you hate fun, you you're a little excited. There we go. I'll take that you're a little excited. Well, I think the other the other reason I started with this started for us
at the Shrine Bowl. And I'm not trying to toot our own horror. People were tweeting about at me about this yesterday.
But he saw it.
We knew, but we My point is that now, no, come on video, you're gonna make you look try to get a fist bump us. Do you remember.
So there's my point about bringing up the Shrine bol is not to not to pat ourselves in the back. My point about bringing up the Shrine Bowl is is you talk about checking boxes. He was open all day at the Shrine Bowl against granted draftable guys, not necessarily guys that are going to make NFL rosters across the board, but certainly guys that are going to be that were drafted, that are are competing for fifty three man roster spots across the league. So that that was the first box.
And he goes to the combine and he runs like a four to four box, checked right and now he comes here to the Patriots and and has been great every step of the way that he possibly can be. He's going to make the Patriots roster. Yeah, I think we can say that now. I just I'm trying to temper expectations of the impact he's gonna have on Sundays. I'm still not convinced that he's going to be what everybody is hoping and dreaming that he's going to be.
I and it's not against him, it's just the realness of the of the way camp.
But you're also not saying he's not going to be that. You're just saying it's too early to tell. Because people are going to hear that. People are going to hear that. And by the way, somebody on YouTube said, you're the greatest fensitter of all time. People are going to hear what you're saying and think that you're saying he's not good, and it's it's I'm with you, it's too soon to tell. I'm just saying, if you want to enjoy the ride,
there's nothing wrong with enjoying your ride. Just don't you know, Thursday's a big Night's a big night for him.
My biggest thing is is. I just don't want people to all the media hype him up, all camp like, where's the Mario?
But here's part of different.
He goes in and has like it doesn't play all un healthy scratch.
But here's part of the reason. He's different too than some of the guys in the past. You've heard players hype him up. Dietrich Wise, who's a defensive lineman, was hyping him up. Marcus Jones was very compliment What are they supposed to say, We've got a bunch of good receivers. That's that's what they always say.
You get sucks? Like, what do you mean, like.
I asked, so I was. We actually talked go ahead. We talked to Douglas yesterday and he was talking about how the Patriots coaching staff is taught him how to read the ball as punt returner. So I I because I'm curious about Bryce Barringer. I said, you know what, what is the like catching the ball off Brice's foot? Yeah, and he started, he goes, oh, he's and then he call himself. He goes, we have two really good punters. That is what they've done for years. What is he
supposed to say? What is sped say when askepect from our Douglas, Yeah, we got a lot of good receivers. The rookies are working hard. That's what they've always said. That's always been the line. You know this, Evan, It's always been the line. There's a little bit more buzz from the players than to Mario Douglas then there typically is for rookies a little bit.
Okay, So here's what I'm going to say to all this buzz from the rookies when we go to Green Bay next week. If JayR is telling me that Tomorrio Douglas can play, I'll be.
Oh, okay, but that happened.
If you're just if I mean JayR Alexander from the Packers is one of my favorite.
I don't think he's gonna cover him because he's gonna be he's not a slot corner.
Well he'll see him, all right, and that's enough for me. Like if JayR Alexander comes off the practice field and somebody from the Patriots contingent, you know, media contingent out there in Green Bay says, hey, Jayra, what what do you think about sixty on the Patriots.
He's gonna say they got a bunch of good and.
He says he says that that boy nice or that guy shouldn't be sixty.
At that point, I'm either it shouldn't be sixty at that point. My hot take is I really need to Mario Douglas to wear eighty because I need Troy Brown to pass the baton. But it hasn't happened yet. All I'm saying is enjoy the ride. But I will say here's I've enjoyed the ride up to this point. It doesn't sound like it. It's just getting a little crazy. That doesn't sound like it.
It's I I just so.
So here's part of the reason I think with Douglas in particular, it's getting a little out of hand. Yeah, this is where we have to bring Taekwon Thornton in because I think there was this believe coming into camp that even if Taekwon wasn't great, there was going to be a little bit of leash. And there was gonna be a little bit of leash. Who's gonna have a little more room to develop for two reasons. One, he was the fiftieth overall pick a year ago. It's too
early to quit on that. In Two, even if he was the fourth receiver behind Parker, Smith, Schuster and Born. He was gonna play because that's how they were gonna get the speed on the field. And we weren't sure there was any other way they were gonna get the speed on the field. Well, now there might be another way they can get the speed on the field. And I don't know that Douglas has to be amazing to,
you know, beat out Thornton. If Thornton can't make it work with mac Jones and Douglas gives you that speed element, all that there is like kind of pushing Thornton in the lineup is that fiftieth overall pick and that's gonna dry up real quick, that that kind of cushion. So that's why I think there's so much hype for Douglas. It's not just that he's been good. It's that there is a very direct line, like I can see, all right, it's not to be good. This is how he's gonna
earn playing time. He's gonna play in a role like this.
But let's face it, let's face it, we all are I'm not taking myself out of this rookie wide receiver Pops and Patriots training camp is an easy headline that that gets.
Okay, there's a long Yes, there's a long way to go. I get it, I get it.
Saying the hype is just getting a little crazy with Taekwon.
Yes, yes, let's have it. None of them work out, No, No, because it's important. None of this is going to get None of them work out until one of them does. None of them work out until one of them does. And it's it's they need the speed on the field.
If Douglas is going to give them the speed, that the sixth round pick is going to be the one that ends up.
Over the second round pick. Yes, but if they need to get the speed up there is And this is part of the reason too, when we're.
Draft the skills set in the second round, like this is just not.
That okay, But we don't need to revisit that. It's just not this is This is why there's more hype around around Douglass than Booty. And this is why Douglas is getting so much of the hype because Taekwon Thornton's had a bad camp on top of his good camp, and it is very easy to draw that line and it's looked like it. We talked last whatever was last week,
two weeks ago. About how if you want to say the quarterbacks are competing, that's different than saying there's a quarterback competition, because a quarterback competition is a very specific set of circumstances where both players are rapping with the same players against the same players, splitting the reps, et cetera. That's what's happening right now with Taekwon Thornton and to Mario Douglas. It started like three or four days ago.
They're competing for that fourth wide receiver spot. That doesn't mean Douglas has won it. That doesn't mean he's gonna win Rookie of the Year. So don't tell me that there's still a long way to go, because yes, I know that.
But Jamar Chase Rookie of the Year.
But it feels like they're giving to Mario Douglas a chance to prove he's better than Taekwon Thornton and earned that fourth spot. Will he do it? I don't know. That's why we still have two weeks to go, But will you agree to that, Tomoro Douglas has gotten to the point where he's kind of neck connect with Taekwon Thornton right now and one of those guys is gonna win that fourth receiver spot.
Yes, but I think they're different, so I I in my brain, I have a tough time talking about it.
They're different, but they're not incredibly different.
The Mario Douglas to me, is not a field stretcher. Horizontally maybe, but he's not a vertical field stretcher.
They don't have the luxury I think of nitpicking that. I think it's literally just they need speed on the field.
That's he's right, But he's to me what we have seen.
Although he was a field stretcher in college.
He was I don't know if that's gonna that might have been a liberty thing. I don't know if that's gonna work out.
That's fair, but like he you could try it, at least you could try it.
But like he's like mid four fives or four fours excuse me, Like a four four four I think is what he ran.
I think he ran like a four four one.
Uh it's that's not four two eight's it?
Well, So this is to your point of there's still time left. I want to see him Thursday night. I want to see him against the Packers. We we know he can do the underneath stuff.
I knew you're gonna I knew you're gonna be pissed off at me.
For having Let's let's see if he can do some of the vertical stuff I thought you're take was going to be. It's too soon a quote on Taekwon Thornton.
I'll get to that in a second. Let's take some of these calls. I people have been hold on hold for a while. We're definitely gonna talk Taekwon though. All right, John is in Louisiana. What's up, John? John? A Hey, hell, Hey, sorry for that leaving you on hold for so long. What's up?
That's all good. First, I was just going to give you all your calls, and I'm a big pan of the podcast. Thank you actually having you just tweeting me back on whether I was giving your flowers about.
The Oh, thank you, thank you. I appreciate that.
Yeah. So my question is what's the new offensive coordinator? As the weapons? Do you think we're going to be a run to pass the ball or a pass to run the ball. And my last question is, if you had one dast stake, would you think Devin mccordy or Stefan Gilmore but that's that's all I got got.
Okay that that last one is a tough one, John, thanks for the call. So run to pass, pass to run. I still think at his roots that Bill O'Brien wants to air it out.
Well, he wants to throw the ball air it out. I think of more as like a deep Okay.
Yeah, but I still think he wants to throw the ball. I think it ideally to him would be like between thirty five and forty attempts a game for Mac Jones in his dream scenario. Will Bill the other Bill allow him to throw the ball that much is a totally different discussion then. Obviously, of course, it's all about success and failure, right. You know, if if they're throwing the ball, well, then they can keep throwing the ball. If they're not, then they're gonna have to change.
Well there's is it O'Brien or Belichick who talks about the screen being extension of the run game?
Uh?
I usually Belichick.
Ok So maybe that's the short passing game, the horizontal passing game, screen game shirt certainly will all be part of that. But I wonder if that's how O'Brien sells it. Yes, and throwing the ball.
That's twenty eleven Patriots, right, that's you know, we're going to throw the ball to to Wes Welker and it's going to be a three yard pass that he's going to turn into an eight yard pass and the eight yards per attempt on that throw is going to be better than the four yards per attempt we're going to average on the ground, right, And that's that's that's that
entire offensive philosophy. I still think that they're gonna incorporate a ton of run actions, whether it's play action, RPO, whatever the case may be, to keep the defense honest. But are they gonna be like last year they were run first team twenty one the ground and Pounty run first team in twenty one as well. Are they gonna be that? I don't think ideally, But again, it all comes down to how well they throw the ball. Yeah, that's what's gonna dictate that. Gilmore versus mccordy, I that's
a tough one because clearly, and I love Devin mccordy. Yeah, peak Stefan Gilmore was a better football player, and it's than Devon.
It's also you know that shutdown corner if I'm building a defense. That's where I'm starting. Yeah, like I I just as as a defence and I love Devin. And if you're so, if you're telling me, if I have to win one game, it's it's Steph. Because if I'm building a defense, I want that shutdown corre. If you're telling me, like I'm starting a team, yeah, Devon's leadership. Not that Steph wasn't a good leader, but Devon's leadership, Like, I consider that, but it's just give me the shutdown
corner all day. Like that's that. That's you start with a quarterback on offense, You're starting with a shutdown corner on defense.
Yeah, I'm with you, all right, how David in Rochester? We've been to Rochester.
Hey, guys, there's it going.
Hey.
Hey, So I had a running back question, and then I had something for Alex. I think Alex might like to Okay, I start with the Alex thing. All right, So Alex, I think I speak for everyone here cash twenty two listeners when I say that we need more kicker and punter talk.
Yes, we'll get to what thinks. I love that good point.
I agree.
Uh So my running back thing it was actually more in free agency. Why do you think that the hole Ezekie Alliott Dalvin Cook thing has gone completely silent? Are we waiting for what the Jets are going to do? Or are we just waiting to see what we have in Strong and Harris. I'll take it off the.
Air, Thanks David and h. Yeah, Alex can do special teams on his own time, which I will give him time on a show. I have actually a take on that question too. I just had talked about this yesterday with felgerham Maz. I think so there's two reasons. I think the veteran running back market's gone quiet, and he kind of alluded to it.
One. I think Ezekiel Elliott, Leonardourette they're waiting for Dalvin Cook. They want to let him see the first which my whole conspiracy theory about how they were saving to announce Dalvin Cook signing on Hard Knocks didn't pan out, But I think those guys want to see the market set. He actually got the second reason too. I think, yes, the Patriots do need another running back, but they need that guy for a week one of the regular season.
They don't need that guy now. They've got two young backs and Kevin Harrison, Pierre Strong who didn't play a ton last year. Why take reps away from those guys At this point, I think that they've wanted to drill those guys a ton, and not just so they can get better, but also to evaluate and see because if one of those guys emerges is a true number two back, now you don't need Ezekiel Elliot or Leonard Fournette. Now maybe you just go sign c J. Marobble as your
SFL guy they worked out. I don't know if it's marablel or Mayor, but you go sign him as just your depth back, and hey, Pierre Strong or Kevin Harris takes over for Damian Harris' is that true number two? If neither of those guys emerge, then all right, you know you still got invaluable reps. And how long do Ezekiel Elliott, Leonard Fournette really need to get going for
the season. A week, two weeks? So I think after that Green Bay game is when they're gonna look at it and say, all right, we've got them evaluated through two games, two joint practices. Here's where we believe those two are at. We need another guy, and that's when they make the signing as it stands right now, I still I think they need to add one of those veterans because I don't think Harris are strong have been bad in camp, yeah, but I also don't think they've
been good. They've just kind of been there. Neither one's really popped, and they do need a second a number two back who's gonna give you something because ramondra Stevenson could not be a three hundred touch guy again this year. He got burnt out by the end of the year. He can't have that happen two years in a row. I still really would like to see them at Ezekiel Elliott. I wouldn't be mad about Leonard Fournette, but I'm not
surprised that they're taking their time with it again. I think like a week from now is when that conversation really starts to pick up.
Yes, I'm fully with you on on the timing of it all, so I won't haven't necessarily need to go into that again. But I think the biggest thing with for the second year guys and what we've seen out of them in practice. One, I will give them the out that if your offensive line isn't creating the holes in practice, and it's kind of difficult for you to pop as that's fair.
But like the big thing for them that Bill's talked about this is in past.
Pro they just but they haven't really.
They haven't had a ton of chances to do.
And that's why not even Remandre has really broken off any like real big runs in practice.
Well, but and that's but that's what I said. We'll see these games, We'll see the joint practices.
It's also difficult to evaluate, especially guys like Kevin Harris who's like a bowling ball, Like you're not gonna his physicality and stuff like that is not going to translate necessarily in practices where they're not tackling through the whistle and tackling to the ground as much. And they do the tackling drills and some periods are are quote unquote live, but we're not talking about game type of reps now. I the more that we get, you know, I love
Pierre strongly. I'm a peer strong guy. I want to see Pierre Strong with the football in his hands as much as possible, you know, not obviously as a number one guy, but just as a role player. To get that speed on the field and get him in the open field with that speed. With that being said, there's clearly a really good chemistry between Jones and Remandre in
the passing game. He looks to Remandre a ton Mac does, and sometimes I think that that's not always the you know, these little checkdowns and dump offs, like do those on your own time. But at the same time, like they'll he'll look at the if he gets Vermandre on one of the linebackers like not like a true linebacker. I'm not talking about like one of the safety hybrids, a true line He's going there nine times out of ten. So I think the chemistry that he has with Romandre
in the passing game is a factor. And all this so with all that being said, I do wonder if it becomes more about Kevin Harris or potentially Zeke Elliott or Leonard Fournette, then it does about a passing game player merging and taking that away from Vermondre. And obviously the passing game player would be Pierre stronger, like a healthy time Montgomery, because maybe they look at it and they say wanta instead of Vermondre carrying the ball what
he had seventy catches roughly last year. So instead of him carrying the ball two hundred times, if we can get that down to one hundred and fifty one hundred and twenty five so that he can still play on third down, Yeah, he might be their best third down back still, and so instead of he's cutting into the early down work is the point. And if that's gonna be the case, then it's gonna be Harris, it's gonna be Zeke, it's gonna be one of these other bigger backs.
That Although I'm also still a lot of post to them doing a drive for drive thing like they tried to do last year, I still think that should be on the table. But the problem is they need that second back who can do that. I think that they which would be Fournette.
I think that Vermondre is too good. Like I think that they look at Rimandre as a true bel cow And I don't know if they're gonna unless they unless it's Dalvin Cook, I don't know if you're gonna get your tat. I think that they're gonna look at everybody.
There's a reason not every team does that. It's because it's it's super hard to have the personnel. But if Fournette could maybe maybe you go two drives for Remondra, one for Fournette and it's not one for one.
Yeah. I just think that they might be looking again at more of like a Damien Harris guy than elevating Pierre Strong to the James White role and having him cut into the snaps that way.
Right, Somebody in the chat says Mac doesn't look to throw the running back enough.
Okay, that had seventy catches last year. How many more catches do you want to have? All right?
It says he looks to him last.
Okay, Devon is in New Hampshire. What's up, Devon?
Man?
All right? Mark is in Connecticut. Mark, I missed you at practice the other day. I apologize, But what's going on?
Hey, Evan, No, it's all good. I know you're a busy man. It's all good.
Man.
I saw the sargere over there. We gat it with him for a little while.
But there you go.
Anyway, running back, I was going to talk to you about that, but you guys kind of already, you know, intervene on that. But I'm still a fan of Denario pop Douglass. I still think he's gonna make the roster, and I think he's actually gonna be a pretty good impact player. Wanted to get your take on that because it seems like it kind of putting them down a little bit.
Now, I know, I know. Thanks for the call, Mark and for listening. As always, I'm not trying to I'm not trying to put him down. He's done everything right. He's done everything right. Alex is right about that. He's checked every box. He's done everything right. We all see it. It's all tangible that you can see the quick twitch, you can see the burst. I think, especially at the top of the route's really there as well. But he's really developed, and Marcus Jones talked about this yesterday, the
early stages of the route. He's getting even better at that, like to release the stam setting it up, you know, salesmanship, that sort of thing that's come along really nicely for him as well. I think he's an NFL player. I think he's gonna make the fifty three man roster. I just need to see it against better competition, more significant raps than than just regular training camp practice, joint practices, preseason games. That's when I'm gonna find out, if to
Mario Douglas is a dude. I know de Mario Douglas is a fifty three man roster player, But is he a guy? I don't know yet.
He is a guy. We don't know if he's a dude. Sure, he is a guy.
They love, love, love Juju, Parker and Born. They love them. But it's gonna take a lot, I think to take those three off the field for this coaching staff in eleven person.
But again, to go back to the point I think, and there is, there's got to be an understanding that there needs to be a speed element.
I agree.
The other thing is, like, you know, I agree with that, right and looks it's football. It's an unfortunate reality. Those three guys aren't all playing seventeen.
Games, not especially not Parker and Juju.
Right they're not, So you're gonna have to And if they do play all seventeen, it's probably because they're managing their workload and they're mixing in a fourth receiver on a regular basis. So again I think it's Dornton and Douglas battling for that fourth spot right now. And again there's I will admit with you, there's a long way to go. I think some people already have Douglas as the guy in Thornton off the roster. It's too soon for that, but it is trending towards at least Douglas
winning that. So let me ask you this though, to go back to because you've got a lot of people worked up about that. When is the last time? Because so people go back to last year we had that whole thing with little Jordan Humphrey and Trey Knicks and a Christian Wilkerson. Remember, but like and we were talking about them as like maybe being something. We were not talking about them as definitively Samara Ducks. It was almost
by elimination. We just figured they were going to carry a fifth wide receiver and those are the best options. When's the last time you remember a Patriots rookie receiver just to this point, there's a yes, there's a way to go to this point. When's the last time you remember a Patriots receiver having this complete of a camp?
I mean not in my time covering the team.
And that's the point, that's where the excitement comes from, because that's totally fair. It does look different than it too.
I just we talk about this all the time. I have made mistakes evaluating players in camp in the past.
You're no, you're a little gun shot.
I'm not going to use his name because it's not fair to Maurice Harris that we always throw him under the bus, all right, but the point being is.
That you're a little gun shy buying in on a fast player because he's fast, and a lot of guys, a lot of guys just have good training camps like out of nowhere, and it doesn't always it doesn't always stick. I'm not saying that he's not going to stick. I'm just saying again, I don't know if he's a dude yet. I know he's a guy, I don't know if he's a dude. And so here's why I think this one's a little different. Maurice Harris. Some of those other speed guys,
they fell off when the pads came on. You could see it. Douglas didn't yet. That's well, the pats have been on. He's been good at this point, has been on like five prask well, at this point it would be more bad. I think it's more realistic. He falls off against like other teams competition that it's just the pads like I've seen enough that I believe he can handle contact. That's my point is, and that's fair.
So let's talk about Taekwon for a second, because we're talking. We're talking a lot about the receivers. Anyways, when it comes to Taekwon, I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm super disappointed. I'm upset. Yeah, I'm upset. And a reason why.
Another that you got burned on him in the spring.
The reason why I'm upset about Taekwon is because injuries aside, Like, let's just let's just talk about when he's been out there, right, the injuries and and all that stuff aside, Let's just focus on when he's actually been out there. I think he's gotten open. I think he's gotten open, and he's doing it against the twos, which you need to add that context. It's not always against Christian Gonzales one. Yes, don't don't tell me about one on ones anyways.
In five minutes he'll be talking about how they matter.
That's fair. Uh, he has gotten open. What's disappointing about Taekwon is he cannot freaking finish through contact to save his life. And that's so frustrat because they need this speed element, and I mentioned that Tomorrow Douglas is a little bit different. I think Tomorrio Douglas's role with this Patriots team is what we have grown accustomed to seeing out of that quick twitch slot role. And he's faster in a straight line than some of the guys that
have been in that role in the past. You know, He's not he's He's faster than Needel Minner or Welker or a Moondola or one of those guys. He's probably more in like the Troy Brown Dion Branch mold. Yeah, I think Deon Branch is a solid com but he's to me, he's not He's not a take the top off burner like Taekwon could be. And we've seen Taekwon
do it a couple of times. The throw that that really frustrated me, and I just I was like, all right, like this is just this is getting to a point now where I don't think he might ever be able to do this. He ran a post corner against Josh Bledsoe got yeah, okay, like five yards of separation. He was open, wide open, Bailey zappy under throw it. He flat out under through the pass. I'm getting too flat
out under through the ball, no doubt about it. But Tayekwon adjusted to the underthrown ball, came back to it, elevated above Joshua bloed cell and had the ball on his.
Hands for a beat. He had the ball in his hands for a beat, and then when he brought it down, he left it out like a loaf of bread and allowed Joshua blood Still to just.
Knock it out of his hands for an incomplete pass. He's not going to win with physicality, we know that. But he is six foot three and the fact that he cannot win, it's not about winning like DeVante Parker's style jump balls. Go watch a lot of these speed guys around the league, and as much as Tyreek Hill might get five yards behind the defense once every two weeks or something like that, he also is able to get a step and then finished through the con attacked
at the catch point. If you can't do that and you're only relying on the times where you actually just blow by the defense and beat everybody by five yards, then you are are You're gonna be a situational like sparingly targeted player. What separates the deep threats in this league? What separates guys like Tyreek Hill from guys like Philip dor said, is that they can finish at the catch
point and he can't finish at the catchpoint. So what good is It's such a waste of talent because he can get open, he just can't finish the play.
There was another play, this was the same practice, I think was this Monday. I think it was a Bundy where he got open in the end zone. Like we talked about the red zone struggles at the beginning, he got to open in the end zone. And I mean it wasn't a perfect throw from Zappy. It wasn't between the numbers. It's a little off his frame, but it was like it's a fine throw. You wouldn't look at it and say it's a bad throw. But he had
to go away from his frame and catch it. So he goes out, he catches the ball, but he can't bring it into his body. Rodney Randall gets over and just hits him with his shoulder like in the side, like you know, very normal football player. Give them a
littleholder check and Thornton dropped the ball. Yeah, and it's it's again that thing where catching through contact as a hands catcher Look, it's been the Patriots history at wide receivers obviously very convoluted and complex, and it's very hard to be like, all right, what kind of guys do work here, because it's been so hard to find that.
The answer to that to Mario Douglas, Yes, well, if there is just draft to Mario Douglas in the second freaking round, sorry, that would have been uh uh tank Dell. If just just like you know what skill set works, okay, but so just take that skill set and drafted from a power five or from like a top one hundred prospect. Why why do they do this? Why it just to let me finish my point if there is one individual skill so the three cone in the agilities won another one.
And I don't think this gets talked about enough. If you go back to Dion branch through, you know there's a bunch of guys here. Julian Edeman who's great at this, Brandon Cooks is great at this, Moss Gronk obviously, uh Welker hands catchers. So what that means is like a body catches a guy when he catches his ball, he brings in the body. That's why he makes the catch.
Hands catchers. You can go out, you can catch the ball away from your frame, and even if there's contact, your hands are strong enough to hold onto the ball.
I'll give it to Keishan Boody. He's a good hands, good hands catcher.
That's another. Mikeasicki is a guy who's looked like a really good hands catcher early in this practice, in this camp, ridiculous. Taekwon Thornton not a hands catcher remotely. And that's a that's a a focus. It's it's a balanced thing, and it's a it's a play strength thing. And we know his play strength isn't great. We've known that, and it was something you'd hope would get better going into a
second year. That hasn't been. And when you have an accurate quarterback like mac Jones or you know, this is why, this is why these guys worked with Tom Brady, because when the quarterback knows you can go away from your body and make the play, it essentially increases the window he is to throw the ball. That might open up
some windows that don't otherwise exist. Mac Jones can capitalize on that, not to the level Brady could, but he can capitalize on that right exactly if you can't go away from your frame to catch the ball, and away from your frame doesn't mean to the side, it also means up in Taekwon being six to three, if you can't go away from your frame to catch the ball, that doesn't do the quarterback a lot of good. And that, to me is what's been more discouraging about Taekwon than
anything else. It's been his hands.
Yeah, it's been extremely disappointing that because you see, like on the Bloodsteat play that I described, he's six three and he's got a pretty good wingspan, so he goes up to catch the football and you're like, that's a pretty high level.
And we've talked about this, and I know you hate it, but we've talked about this. That's going to be a big part of their offense this year. Vertical separation, low key.
Climbing the ladder with t with with tall reek right like, you're getting up there, but he can't hang onto the football. And I think the difference is and this is why I look. I I probably was was the last one that that believed anything in Nikil Harry also, but with Nikil Harry, he was stiff, he was slow, he couldn't run routes.
Like you another guy that wasn't a good hand catcher. But we saw it like almost right away that this guy just didn't move at a first round level. Like it just he wasn't explosive, he wasn't a good route runner.
He couldn't change. It was just he wasn't an NFL athlete like people thought he was. I think Taekwon Thornton's an NFL athlete. I think Taekwon Thornton's speed is legit. I think it's difficult to win to when.
He and that That's why I'm as much as I just kind of dug into him, I'm not ready to give up on him yet.
Yeah, I think all those things are legit. It's the details that are just not there with him in the hands, the ability to you know, the route running in the in the fundamentals of route running, in terms of the IQ, like all those types of things. The other veteran guys, and I know he's only in the second year, but you want we can watch it against like Parker Juju Born, like those guys are just so far and away better
at the catch point, yeah than Taekwon is. It's so obvious watching them play football on a day to day basis in practice. And that's why it's so frustrating with Taekwond because he does the hardest part. The hardest part is getting open. Yeah, he does the hardest part. He just can't do. He can't do the rest of it. He he wins on ninety five percent of the route, but it's the last five percent that he just can't
close the deal. Yeah, And if he can develop that somehow, it's not about like adding muscle to his frame.
It's it's but that would help at the catch point because if you have stronger hands, it's easier to hold onto the ball through contact.
So but that is part of Maybe it's the small risks.
Maybe it's a small ruce.
Maybe it's just.
Maybe he just got no restraint. It's it's I mean, we're joking, but we're not.
It's it's it's it's frustrating to watch because you watch him run by these guys and he ran a he beat Isaiah Bolden and seven's a little stutter and go and he caught it. But he caught it in the bread basket, which is totally different than what we're talking about. And I was like, there you go, like that's doable. The post corner should be like a a patented Taekwon route, that should be something that is a foundational I'm a
four to two eight guy. You can't cover me on this and he got open and yeah, and in an ideal world, would ZAPPI have led him into, you know, down the field and he would have walked into the end zone. Yeah, of course. But still that again, it's not always going to be perfect conditions, right, and we talk about this all the time with the quarterbacks themselves, that it's not always going to be perfect conditioned. So that's your Taekwon man. I'm not ready to give up
on Taekwon. I don't think you are either, but certainly in terms of playing time, it's getting to the point where he's the fourth guy at best. At this point, I've.
Given you that whole take about you've got to do what's best for mac Jones and if having Tomorrow Douglas on the field, and I think Mac Jones really likes Tomorrio Douglas, if having from his hometown, if if he's a legend his hometown, Max said, and we know Taekwon, there's been a couple of miscommunications with them here so far the summer. If Tomrio Douglas being on the field is better for Mac Jones than Taekwon Thornton, then Tomorrio Douglas needs to be on the field over Taekwon or period.
Yeah. All right, let's get it back to some of the phones here, and I do want to talk defense.
We do. Yeah, this is like two shows. Well, definitely, it's kind of weird camp for the defense though, because outside of Christian Zalez and Marte Maphu, they just brought back everybody from last year.
It's you knew exactly what you were gonna get and it's looked exactly.
There's really in a very good way. Is there really any news on the defense other than Christian Zalez? Is good? No, Like, I want to talk about ke On White, but we just against the third string offensive lineman. We can't do it. Yeah, I'll talk a lot about ke On White after the game tomorrow.
Yeah.
I think that that's sort of something that we're looking at in terms of the game tomorrow and then obviously moving forward. Is that some of these defensive guys I think need to be tested a little bit more. And I'll we'll see what that looks like. I love the fact that the Christian Zalces look fantastic. He even when he loses, it's not because he gets burnt. He's just you know, trying to figure out some of the final elements of his game, like anticipation in ball skills and
stuff like that. But he's in receiver's hip pockets basically all the time, and he's really impressive. We've all said that. I think the biggest thing for him, which is what I really like, maybe not against the Texans if he plays a little bit tomorrow night, but in terms of the Packers and the Titans, he's he is going to start to see some better receivers in those joint practices. Like perfect example, Christian Watson on the Packers is a
great matchup for him, right. I even think Romeo Dobbs is a solid matchup for him, but Christian Watson in particular, big, fast, physical outside receiver. Those are the types of guys that he's gonna have to cover and cover well. And then we get to Tennessee and we know, you know who is down in Tennessee, and so is Traylon Burke. So we both didn't really love, but still another big, size, speed type of receiver as well, So I think that
he has some warm ups. Certainly, Burke's was supposed to be AJ Brown and he's gonna face see J. Brown in week one, so it's kind of like minor league a J. Brown and that can get you ready for major league a J. Brown and one. So yeah, so he loved what we've seen at of Gonzales. Uh, the safety position is still I think if you have to look at one, I don't want to call it. I guess better not concerned question mark. I'm still not one hundred and ten percent sure how it's gonna look in
center field. I don't know how much they're gonna really play. Yeah, I don't think there. I just think they're not gonna do a ton of centerfield stuff. Yeah, it's kind of been my my takeaway from it, Yeah, because I just
don't love they don't have anybody up there. And I think one of the things that there's two things about it that I think are really the key, and one is obviously recognition and anticipation of route combinations, right, Like you have to be able to know what the what the offense is running and figure it out quickly and anticipate and recognize formations and things like that, situation formations in a say, situation like down in distance, formations like
That's what made Devin a step ahead so often was that he was able to recognize those types of things pre snap and then understand where the biggest threats were and how he can help and things like that. And then obviously it's the flip and run talent, like who has that ability to get into the pedal and then see that it's coming over the top and flip and run with the in close right on a go ball on the sideline. Adrian Phillips talked about this a little
bit when we talked to him. Devin could sit in center field and he could go sideline to sideline. He could just sit in the middle of the field and be able to make a play on the go ball side on the boundary up the numbers. They don't necessarily have a guy that can do that. Now, So is it tilting it like? Is it cheating it over to that side? Is it more too high?
Like?
I still don't think we've necessarily gotten that answer, because they're not really game planning or scheming at that type of level. Yet in practice, that's the one area that I've been a little bit like, we still got to wait and see on this. The defensive front is ridiculous. Like they got like seventeen guys that they can throw at you. All of them can beat blocks. Keon Whitees looked fine. I think he's gonna be a rotational guy.
Josh U J. Connor I mentioned it earlier. Connor Precdermot must have him in his nightmares, like he can't can't block his speed. Ye, judea On is like just didn't even look like he missed a practice when he got out there with the pads on, and you know, Godshaw's going to do his thing. Dietrich Wise, I think is still going to be at the level that he was
similar to last year. I know that people regardless, like you can ask national media like a lot of people, but I think the Patriots have one of the best defensive fronts in football.
I would say so too, especially if it's going to take that jump.
I still think San Francisco's is better than there's probably and maybe San Francisco's. Philly Dallas like those are something.
It's kind of weird because people have asked me, like, how good can the Patriots defense be? The balance did the lack of balance in defense between the AFC and NFC. Like, I feel confident there's three teams in the AFC that are going to be the three best defense as well above everybody else. The Patriots, Jet Steelers, will would order that ends up being in I think they all have, you know, for the Patriots, it's where's Christian Zales at for for the Steelers of health for the Jets at
Sauce Gardner year two. But those are gonna be three top defenses. But I don't know that any of those three would be even top two in the NFC. So it's like this weird thing trying to balance between those two.
Yeah, it's their Patriots defensive front is legit, Yeah, legit, legit. Marty Mapu still in the Red Jersey, that kind of I still think they're trying to figure out where exactly he fits best. They're not listening to me about using him solely out linebacker yet, so I still think that that's a preseason thing and maybe joint practice thing where we kind of hone in on exactly how he's gonna
be used. I still think that he's gonna be a situational passing game player, coverage linebacker right, comeing on third down and cover on third down instead of you know, maybe Juwan Bentley then moves forward and plays in the rush or comes off the field. Jalan Tavai certainly comes off the field, and that that makes room for Martypu and you know, Jack Jones. Like Jack Jones, he's a good player. Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen
with him off the field. He has that a next hearing on August eighteenth, So my guess is he won't be with us in Green Bay. He'll probably be back here right and it'll be interesting to see what it looks like come August eighteenth, because that's I believe he's been arranged. So I believe that that's like the first hearing where the state brings their case to the table and they have to prove that they have a case against him, and at that point then it goes to
you know, trial date and things like that. So we'll see what happens on August eighteenth with Jack Jones. But I love the idea, and obviously it matters if he's going to be out there but they have John Jones, they have Christian Gonzalez as these two guys that are just they're gonna put straps on guys, They're going to
live in their hip pockets. They can cover these receivers man to man, and then you have your ballhawk on the boundary and Jack Jones, And I think that that really allows him a Kyle Dugger like some of those players, to just rove the defense in the secondary and become ballhawks and go ahead and create those turnovers. So I love that balance of having that ability there, and obviously he does bring a little bit more size to the boundary as well. What are your thoughts on Isaiah Bolden?
Are you? I just rained all over the Pop Douglas parade, so maybe we should do that too.
Well.
No, so I got super excited about Isaiah Bolden. Then the last couple of days, you know, he got elevated to more premier reps against better players, he kind of came back down to earth a little bit. I like his long term projection as like a third boundary corner. So he's a guy and kickoff returner and a kickoff turner. Like I think it's come down to like him and
a mere speed. A lot of people have it that way if they don't have to burn because people are like, oh you cut a guy bringing back on the practic squad, well, then you burn his rookie contract.
And I wouldn't do that.
I to me, like, do you want to be going year to year with Isaiah Bolden if he turns out to be a legit boundary corner right? So item as my fifty fourth player on my last roster projection. I did because they like him.
But that's the one that's gonna kill people.
But now, honestly, Miles, the more I think about it, Miles Bryant's on a one year deal. He's definitely guy you could cut and bring back. And I don't think he's waivers eligible either. I think he just becomes a free agent, so.
He might have played too much to be a wave res eligible agent.
That's what I'm saying. So you wouldn't have to worry aout anybody claiming him. You just tell him, hey, he's only in year four, right, Yeah, yeah, I think, but he's not on his rookie deals, but he's not anyway. Yeah, I like what I've seen from Isaiah Bolden. He's more kind of with him. It's more all right, Like I like him as a project player. He's a good emergency option on the boundary. Like I'd rather have him on the boundary than Marcus Jones or Jonathan Jones. I like
having that side speed speed option on the boundary. He's not passing Jack Jones on the depth chart at anytime soon. But if you lose Jack Jones for a period of time, if he needs to give you two or three games, I think he could maybe give you two or three games. And he's a guy I'm more excited about, like year two, year three, where does he develop a corner? And he's a guy that you know, when Jack Jones contract gets up, could he be the next man up there?
Yeah? I would. I would like to see them try to keep Isaiah Bolden From what I've seen, Yeah, I think that he's one of those guys that you just mentioned is only going to get better as he progresses. Especially if you can say all the flak you want about the Patriots developing receivers, they can develop corners. They can definitely develop corners, and I think that they would be able to develop Isaiah.
Maybe that's why they can't develop receivers because they develop all these amazing corners. Just blank these guys and it's literally just make them give him mirror, like.
Just just do the opposite of what you tell the corners. Like I don't understand Isaiah Bolden, I think has that ability like you mentioned, to play on the boundary, which I like. I think he's got the physical tools due And I know that Marcus Jones is Marcus Jones and he's going to be back there on kickoffs and punts in some capacity. But I don't hate having a guy like Isaiah Bolden potentially as the kickoff returner instead of
Marcus Jones. Marcus Jones fast, don't get me wrong, but Isaiah Bolden's a strider, right, and sometimes the striders are better off on kickoffs.
And Mark Jones talked about this like he's more of a punt returner than kick returning. He's more experienced at that. The interesting battle if we get to that point, will be Tomorrio Douglas is also a really good kick returner, so we'll be him and Bolden for that kick return.
I just always look at kick returns as like you know, like Cordarol Patterson is obviously the the gold standard for kickoff return obviously. And he's like tall and big, you know, Like, I think the at that spot, you you want a long strider more than you want the jitterbug, right, Like, That's that's always how I felt a better.
Yeah, but I think that if you're good enough jitterbug, you can make you work.
Yeah.
That's fair, all right, especially actually with the new rules especially, I think that will make it more favorable to guys like that.
Yeah, all right, let's take some of these calls and then then we'll get to Alex's special teams minute before we wrap the show. But eldred And is in North Carolina. What's that, Beldrid?
Hey Ellen, I got a bone pick?
Oh yeah, okay, sir, one.
On one the seven on seven are football because if you can't get open on one on one, you sure ain't gonna get open on Sundays or Fridays or Saturdays. Whenever you play, you're not gonna get open. So that is real football, you know, because you got to develop your skills in sets, and if there's seven on seven, you know you're going to get corners and stations and linebackers. But on the difference, that you got on eleven. You got lines coming after quarterback. He ain't worried about this.
Worry about the the guys in the secondary that's doing the curving in the zone. So you got to develop there.
I'll give you one bone. I'll give you seven on of seven. I'm not gonna give you one.
Okay, keep being stubborn, that's all right anyway, but uh but take one. I love him, man. He played like that on the game. If somebody hit him, he drops the ball, but he's wide open. He's wide open like that on the game too. But uh that I wish they got Jefferson to coach the wide receivers because I don't think they can't coach right, be honest with you. I know, I know my man is back there, but
Bob Brown, but they toy somewhere up. I don't think he really kept developing some of the guys, be honest, because we've got too bady to go in and out and they don't go no way up after that. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Yeah that that's a really fair point, elderd. And thanks for the call, and we uh, well we'll settle on seven on seven. Well, I'll give you seven on seven has some translatable skills, so I'm not giving you one on it. But I'm not here.
He's right if you can't win one on one. Nobody's looking at the one on ones, just the one on ones. It's saying he's gonna be great because he's winning one on ones. But what some people might be all right, well they're wrong. Like I said about Tomorrow, Douglas checking all the boxes. It's a box. It's a box that's checked. Okay, it's not you even used one on ones before in an example I did.
You're right, I like I. I like Tomorrow. It's part of the story. That's I'm not trying to trap on to Mario Douglas. We've liked to Mario Douglas since January, so like, this is our guy.
He told everybody about to Mario Douglas. We found Mario Douglas. We did not find no remember his on that website the Patriots, but a Patriots scouting staff knew about Tomorrio Douglas two years. I'm saying, like, outside of outside of NFL scouting rooms, outside of like people who are like actual Scots, remember his draft stock on that website. It was like like in the four fifty five hundreds, and then we start tweet about him and boom, he's a borderline off one.
It was us okay, But here's all I'm saying about the Mario Douglas. This is me protecting my own butt, all right, because I'm gonna come up. You've gotten burned too, and we're gonna tomorrow Douglas. Nobody can cover him. The
guy's unbelievable, YadA, YadA, YadA. And then in like two months, you know, mid season, regular season, real football people are gonna be like, oh, guy, do you remember when the the Catch twenty two guys said Tomorrio Douglas was going to be the next you know, all pro receiver and then he didn't even make the team. Michael, right, Like, I'm just trying to say, let's just take it one
step at a time. That's it. Yeah, that's it. And all those conversations about like who is he going to push off the roster and is he going to start? And is boringexpendable? Is Taekwon expend like word that's way too premature.
Wait I talked into I'm not saying that either. It's literally just he It's been a long time since a rookie Patriots receiver got this far, and that's exciting.
It is exciting, and it's the type of receiver that I love, guy that creates it and not just.
That's the type of receiver that Bill O'Brien loves, like you talk about. Yeah, I said thing before. Part of the reasons. It's not just that he's playing well, but there's a clear path to playing time. I should add a third thing to that. Scheme fit Yeah, perfect scheme fit.
So so I'm not I don't want to get bogged down too much on the week.
We've done a lot of receiver talked last two weeks, so.
Well, I mean it's weekend's camp.
Yeah we can. We can go back to calls when you want.
I I gotta say though this, I was yelling about it earlier jokingly. I'm dead serious about this. It is beyond frustrating that this team cannot recognize the type of skill set that fits their offense and just draft that freaking skill set.
So is it two years ago, three years ago? Who is the guy I wanted that you're like would be great Robinson? Remember how I was?
They're not gonna take them, okay, So like Wandell, Robinson's a good example. Obviously we're gonna see him tomorrow night, maybe John Metchi who thank god it good for him, he's back in health and all that stuff.
A little bit different. But remember Tony and I know that there's been some other issues with.
The ton and and the Giants drafted him under a Patriot regime like they so they're they're patriot guys.
Reckon Dell under a Patriots regime. Tank Dell, who's the kid from Memphis, Calvin Austin.
Calvin Austin. We went up against Marcus Jones a lot and uh in that conference and uh and obviously a big one for me was Sky Moore, Oh you really, who hasn't really done much in Kansas City yet. But it's it's about the traits and it's about what's translatable to this offense. They have drafted Nikhil Harry Early, who was a stiff like stiff and I mean stiff. Yeah, bau Melt did.
We loved vau Melt.
Not not like to take shots at in thee. But when I say stiff, I mean like literally stiff, like he was a stiff mover. Yeah, okay, and then they draft Taekwon, who's a one trick pony. It can only get up the field and that's it. And then they like they'd actually take a mouldable skill set for them, where all you gotta do is have Troy Brown teach him to be Troy Brown, right, and like Jacoby was the same.
Which we got to get into the Jersey number takes it to the very.
I know that Jacoby is not the fastest guy in a straight line, but he was really good at the top of the route and he's got that craftiness and that shiftiness and that's why it worked out. So instead of taking to Mario Douglas and look at ultimately it doesn't matter if to Mario Douglas is a dude, then who cares that he went to Liberty and was drafted in the sixth round?
Oh Marii Rodgers was another one. Sorry, I'm going back through the old drafver. But Jalen Darton, Jalen Darton don't do There's two things I do every day. I brush my teeth and I get open that. I was sold on that quote alone.
All right. The point being is is that we what you could do. This is a bold assessment here. What you could do is you recognize that Tomrio Douglas has the skill set that you want. So let's just take the guy that's Tomorrio Douglas, but like in the SEC right, and let's just take that guy early and let's take that the route runner, the technician, the guy that gets open instead of the guy that is Nikhil Harry or Taekwon. And let's just go that. Why can't we just do that?
And when I say we, I mean the Patriots, Like, why can't the Patriots just do that? I don't understand what's so difficult about that? With their valuations.
Let's I'll tell you this. That's it.
That's all I gotta say.
Texas A and m Ania Smith. That's that's the top of this draft. Guy next year.
All right, let's go to Todd in North Carolina. What's up Todd?
Hey? Hey, question is after watching a lot of the game, what do you are the camp? What do you think that the offense and defense? Are they kind of be more modern? Are they still you know Bill Belichicks mold of you know, let's bend but not break. Let's you know, control the game by controlling the clock and going on from there.
Well, Todd, that's a good question, and thanks for the call. I get we kind of touched on this a little bit with that pass first run first question. I think it depends on who you ask in the building. And I don't know if that's a good thing, Like I don't know if there's gonna be a clear now when I say that, I guess I should walk that back a little bit. I think Bill Bill O'Brien will ultimately bend to Bill Belichick because it's Bill Belichick's team. He's
the head coach. It's his show, right, And I think Bill Brian's been pretty steadfast about that speaking to him.
But I kind of interpreted that question is just stylistically like it's gonna look more modern than it did last year. There's going to be more modern concert that.
But the point is is that are they going to try to win game seventeen to forty or are they going to open it up a little bit and be willing to win in a shootout?
And that it's probably yeah, it'll default to Bill, But I think like the units themselves, I mean, the defense is going to be what it's been. That's not gonna change. But the offense there's more of these modern concepts, RPOs, more motion things like that, Like, yeah, you are going to see a lot more of that.
I do think that I said it earlier. It all comes down to the success, right, Like if they're good, if they're good on offense and they're moving the ball and they're throwing the ball, well, I don't think he did it because he wanted to, but eventually Belichick obviously once Brady became Brady, like, they threw the ball plenty. They were a very aggressive passing team with Tom Brady,
but of course they had Tom Brady. If Bill sees it and says, oh wow, that you know, I trust the offense to throw the ball forty five times and I think we can win this way now and all that type of stuff, then it's different. When I say forty five times, I don't mean because they're down by three touchdowns. I mean a real forty five times.
Yeah.
I think it could be different, But until further notice, I still think that they're going to be a team that's going to try to squeeze every every second off the clock. Ball control possession, don't turn the football over offensively, kick a bunch of field goals on fourth.
There's nothing wrong with prioritizing not turning the ball over.
There isn't anything wrong about but you obviously you need to be more aggressive than they've been.
Yes, yes, I would agree with that.
All right, Devon is in New Hampshire, is back on the line. What's up, Devon? Hey? Devon? Ah Devin something with the phone? All right, we're coming to the end here anyway, So Alex, I'm going to clear the four for you to give your special teams a minute and maybe I'll interject, maybe I won't. What was your take today on the special teams?
I mean, the rookies are running away with both competitions, you know, Chad Chad Ryland and Nick Folk. They've both kind of had like three for four, four for five, those kind of days. But when Nick Folk kicks a forty five yard field goal, you're kind of holding on to the edge of your seat. When Chad Rowlan kicks a forty five yard field goal is halfway up the upright. Yeah, And look, Nick Folk has been a really good patriot.
He has been saved, he absolutely did, but he's been He had a year the second half of last year. He's thirty eight years old, and we know they have the thing like get out a year two early versus a year too late on a player. That's especially true Kicker. I don't think people realize how rare it is that they found Nick Folk the way they did. People conveniently forget that Mike Nugent came in here and was kind of a mess nuge before they went to Nick Folk.
I think that nickname was part of why he was so bad. But I just I are you willing to take the risk that the last half of last season was anaboration for Folk? And I mean he used a fourth round pick on the guy. I know some people have said maybe they keep two kickers. I think they'd like to in theory, But if you've seen what's going on in Dallas, Nick Folk would like I found the Cowboys trade value?
Yeah, does Nick Fole have some trade value?
I think he would. I don't know that you're getting anything significant, but you get a six round pick for Nick Folk. I don't think that's unrealistic.
And so the question is, and I I steer towards the side of rather keeping him on the practice squad than trade him for a sixth round pick. Yeah, but if you don't think that he's gonna you have a conversation with him. Nick, We're gonna go with Ryland, but we'd love to keep you on the practice squad. Just he's a rookie. We don't know if it's gonna how it's gonna look in the regular season. Yet, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Are are you gonna just come back to the practice squad or are you gonna try to shop your your services elsewhere? You look at your options, and he says, I'm gonna look at my options, then you trade. It's pretty simple.
Sure, well, and that's fair. I just think if you do expose him to the practiceqpot, I don't think so, Nick Folk. His family still lives in Dallas, and he it's not like every day, but he goes back and forth between here and Dallas during the season. And if you can tell him he can go live at home for the whole season, make more money kick indoors, Like, why is he not gonna take that?
Yeah?
So, and Dallas desperately needs a kicker, maybe, And you know, I don't know what the kicking situation is in Houston or New Orleans, but these other places that are nearby that it's a much more like I don't think you have to worry about losing him to say Seattle, right right, that's an even worse commute, La. Maybe because he's from there, like he grew up there, and maybe he'd want to go back. But you don't have to worry about losing them to Miami. But there are teams that I think
he would go to that need a kicker. That being said, it would be a real miss if they burn a fourth round pick. If with how good Ryland looks, I think that would be a real disappointment if they burn a fourth round pick and keep Nick Folk, especially if it's proven that the end of last year wasn't an aberration. Yeah, and he's he's kind of lost a step.
My untrained eye on kicker is the one thing that I have noticed is what you pointed out about Folk's leg and Ryland's. It's it's night and day who has the bigger leg. Yeah, and with Folk, you're right, I mean anything over forty five year holding your breath like and the ball just dies off his foot around the goal line, right. You just see the trajectory of the kick just kind of waning down. I would also say with with Rylan, he does have decent enough control on
the ball. I may I make the jokes all the time about Justin Rorosser, like Justin Ross in training camp, could not he if the gold posts were double the size, he still would have been missing. Right, So it was that bad Chad Ryland's misses our NFL misses.
Right.
You're seeing him miss by like a couple of fractions of a of a foot, right, Like you're not seeing him miss by one hundred feet like with Justin Rows. And I'm exaggerating, but you know that that's.
Was missing like the kicking. Yet he wasn't just missing the gold post. So yeah, I again, I think it's Ryland there and then a punter Bearinger has been outstanding and I think the big thing and this is what they love and Pop Douglas talked about it yesterday like it's it's hard to read the ball off his foot and he's had so many putts muffed.
There we go, That's that's what I was looking for. It's hard to read the ball off his foot. This is real punter day.
Have you not seen how many punts he's had muffed?
So far in his camp, I've seen I've seen people say, oh, it's the pay times, tune out during special teams.
You shouldn't you cover the team. That's your jaw, you cover it for me. Some that's and I have used your lineman numbers at times because I can't watch all the one on ones at once, but you can't. It's not people say, oh, so the Patriots punt return is just suck. No, because they're not muffing Weightman's punts.
Yeah, it's it's Marcus Jones doesn't suck.
Yeah, Marcus Jones is not a bad punt returner. We know that. So now Weightman, I think easy got to keep on the practice squad and Pop Douglas kind of talked about this yesterday. There's value in having a lefty punter, so because it's different fielding punter, fielding punts from a lefty punter versus a righty punter. He talked about that
last year when they brought Michael Pallardi in. So you keep Weightman on the practice squad, you have him around as your lefty option, you have him around as an emergency option for Baringer. That one's a lot easier. I don't know that there's gonna be a rush to sign Corless Weightman. Maybe into the season, you lose them if somebody gets hurt, but you should be able to get him on the practice squad.
So the question that I have is then, with Weightman, I wonder if we don't see Weightman in the preseason games, because might as well give Baringer the reps anymore.
I don't think we're going to see either of the veterans a lot. It wouldn't make sense to play either of them. You know essentially what Nick Folk is at this point, and we want to get into the practicead. You don't want Dallas seeing him knocking through three for three, four for four. I would guess it's gonna heavily be the rookies in all three preseason games.
So the one thing that I really like about it with the rookies, and this is one thing you're gonna you're gonna be surprised that I care about this. I like that they're attached at the hip. Those two go everywhere Togain, it's real, it's and and we gotta get Joe Cardona in that with them, But yeah, leave Joe, but.
That you'll get there. He can't play favorites right now.
That battery, right, that's gonna be the holder. You know, Berenger is gonna be Ryland's holder, and which he wasn't that Going back to the Senior Bowl, when you remember every year, I mean you obviously remember as well that those three guys, Cardona, the punter, and the kicker are
like the three Amigos all season LOP. They're inseparable. And I don't want to give away anything too much, but there might have been a little bit of a of a of a some friction with the with the three amigos at times last year, and I think it showed. It did show for Jake Bailey in particular. And I think the big thing with those three guys is, you know, they go in the stadium and they kick in the stadium sometimes and the rest of the team is out
on the practice fields. We do our attendance and we're like, well, the kickers aren't here, but they're probably here. They're just you know, in the stadium or whatever. That's a really important dynamic and I think there's something to be said for Ryland and Baringer going through this together like two rookie guys that are first time in the NFL, rookie players, young guys that are gonna have to learn to be pros and learn to how to go through it and
along those lines. As much as I think that Nick Folk might have opportunities elsewhere, is he like the Brian Hoyer to to those like someone's there might be a little bit of that somebody put in the chat when I said, you don't want Dallas to see him hitting him if you want him on the practice squad, if you want to trade him, you do want, Okay, but you do I do wonder how they Maybe it's just you know they're able to Cardona, Matthew Slater, like those
guys are obviously veterans special teamers as well that are gonna be around a lot. But you do wonder if you want somebody that's there to kind of that's been through it, that's done.
I think you hope that that's Cardona at this point, and Matthew Slater too to an extent, And you can even maybe say Corlus weightman if he's on the practice squad, but.
The special teams think still worries me.
But I mean, we'll see what the coverage looks like I'll tell you, I think Jordan Helig's gonna be the UDFA, like the guy that makes the team. He's looked good in coverage, so and you know they they've overhauled that unit and we've seen a mere speed and Asaia Bolden rep there too, So like they have Chris Board, they have options there.
Yeah, it's gonna I don't. I don't think the personnel is gonna be the problem. I'm still worried about the coaching.
The coach, and that's fair, that's I just because well a I think it's just a weird dynamic.
Like Joe Judge is the assistant head coach of the team. Yeah, but he's clearly the special teams coordinator at most of these practices, Like he's the one that's barking out the orders and leading the way on special teams. I don't know what's up with camp Cord, Like I.
Can Accord honestly say what you will about being worried about the coaching overall, and honestly when you say the coaching, where I agree with you on that is like the the game planning of it, the scheming up. I've said this about cam Acord before, Like, yeah, he was in over his head as a coordinator, coordinating the special teams, coming up with game plans. Read right. I still believe cam Accord is an amazing teacher and coaching is like there's a massive element of that that's just.
And this is why let me teach. You want to be class half full? Yeah, this is why this dynamic should work out.
So that's what I'm saying. Like, the one thing I am encouraged by is I think cam Accord is just back to teaching, which is excellent. How's Joe Judge going to be a special teams coordinator? Will see he's been He was good, but it's been a while. Yeah, but it is it is an objectively weird setup.
I think that that's it's similar to the setup that they have on defense. Honestly, where the teacher, the presenter, the guy that can relate the best of the players is obviously Gerd Mayo, but the play caller Steve and on special teams. If that's how you want to sell me that camra Cord is going to be the guy that's in the trenches with these guys. It's teaching the techniques,
that's doing all that stuff. And then Joe Judge is coming over the top with game plans and sidelines, you know, handling the sideline and play calling and all those types of things. And I suppose that I can be sold.
I think that's like, that's what it should be. I guess we'll see, we'll get a good idea of Thursday night what it looks like. But that's what it should be, all right.
You have three minutes on the Rookie Night.
Well, so this guy keeps commenting on YouTube saying he'll leave a zero star review if we don't talk about it. So now you have to leave a five star review.
Rookie numbers, and that guy better leave us a five.
Better leave a five star review. So ninety nine is open. That's a big one, okay. Bryce Bearinger wore ninety nine in college? Would punters can wear ninety nine now? So kickers and punters can wear one to forty nine and ninety to ninety nine. Yeah, so Bearinger in ninety would be cool. Does Chad Ryland get ninety four? I think he were forty nine at Maryland and that's obviously taken. So that's an interesting one, okay. So he's not going
to be like a kicker number. Eat, well, that is a kicker number, now, Okay, most of the Like, I don't think they have anything open one through nineteen except obviously twelve. Nineteen's open. Yeah, that's it. Nineteen's open, that's it. So maybe one of them gets nineteen, but I feel like that could go. So they changed it now, so it's like one to forty nine for receivers, running backs, corners, safeties, blah blah blah. And the receivers are also in tight
ends eighty to eighty nine. So like, I think you're gonna see, if not a receiver, maybe somebody in the secondary. I see Maphu in the teens.
Weird.
I'd like to see him stick with fifty two because that would be a good number for him, But I see him in the teens. I really want to Mario Douglas to get eighty. I really do. I want Troy You talked about you were in your old shielder like Troy Brown basically teaching to Mario Douglas how to beat Troy Brown. Yeah, what better way to pass the baton than say here's my number. And if he's out there running the option routes in the slot and he's out
there returning kicks. It's just gonna look right, isn't it. I mean, am I wrong? Would just look right? And then I know seventeen's taken, But you have to say it when you have this conversation. Keep to Mario Douglas and Kashawn Booty the hell away from number seventeen. Booty wore seven in college, so he could actually take that like Scotty Washington has it now. But maybe things change. I don't know what Booty's because eighty seven so call
is eighty seven, so he's not gonna wear that. I think he might have worn one at one point, but that's obviously taken by another wide receiver. I would caution people this, you're gonna run out tomorrow and get the jersey when you see the rookie number. Sometimes guys change again before the start of seas because the're pretty much every number is taken, and after cutdown numbers will open up.
Like Christian Barmore was seventy his rookie preseason. That was gross and we were all very happy Adam switched to ninety's.
Adam Butler se.
It worked a little for Barmore needed to be in the nineties. Okay, Jack Jones went from thirty four to thirteen. Some people would say that's a downgrade. I think he makes thirteen work upgrade. Well, it was a little weird at the time. Thirty four is a running back now it was a shout out to Bucky Jones.
Shait.
It was a little weird seeing thirteen as a corner right away, was it?
Not?
Yeah, I like it. I think he rocks it.
But I do now, but initially it was weird. Anyway, don't get nervous if guys get because there's so few numbers available, guys are gonna get weird numbers. It's gonna happen. Yeah, So don't worry about the aesthetic right away. Booty and eighty three would work because there's a little little de Unbranches game a little bit. I just want Tomorrow Douglas if I could get one number, even more than Christian Goan Zalees and zero because he's not getting twenty four.
If I get one number, it's Gonzales and twenty four, but Joshua bloodsoes here. If I get one pick, it's Tomrio Douglas number eighty.
All right, Well, there's your rookie number minute, I'm gonna I'm gonna plead the fifth on the rookie numbers for now, but I will I will echo what Alex said about don't go run out and buy the jersey based off the preseason number. Some of these guys I think are going to change numbers once the regular season rolls around, So don't lose your minds over the numbers that they should come out.
They usually come out.
Like news, yeah before kicking.
By the day of the game, Yeah, I'm sure it's.
It's already all ready to go and pre planned upstairs.
So Kaishaw and Boody wore fifteen in high school. So corlss waitmans here now. But if he doesn't make the team.
Right, those are some numbers. Those things will move around. But we'll find out that by tomorrow.
At this monf forty I think forty three is open. Kaisha on Booty Yeah no, I could see tomorrow. Douglas weren't thirty.
I could.
It's weird, but because he was three in college, it was weird, but I could see it.
Okay, I'm not I'm not.
I'm not saying for preseason I would hope it changes again, but I could see him wearing thirty.
All right, that's gonna do it for us. I really appreciate all the calls and the emails. We had a very call heavy show today, which we really appreciate. And Alex and I will be back next week. I think we're gonna do Thursday. Next week. I'm gonna be in Green Bay. Alex is gonna be here in studio to host the show, So we're gonna be a little role reversal. But it'd be cool because I'll be out there the Joint practices and can tell you all what's been going
down in Green Bay. And then we'll do the same thing in Nashville the following week as well, because I'm gonna be at Bowl Yay, so we'll be out there at Joint practices. Also, we'll anchor it from here and we'll see you that Thanks bye.
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