Patriots Catch-22 7/13: Training Camp Preview, One Big Thing on Each Position

But regardless, we're gonna have something for you next week at our usual times, So don't don't think that we're we're blowing you off a week before training camp, so be on the lookout for that. But today we're gonna really get into sort of the the meat and potatoes of our training camp review, just since I won't be here next week. So here here's the big part of the show will be we're gonna go position by a

position again. But instead of going throughout the whole roster and talking like we did we did the roster projection show, We're gonna change it a little bit and do one big thing, one big thing at each position group. It can be a position battle like you know, training camp battle. It can be an individual player, it can be you know, whatever, whatever we want to do, we can do with Dad. And we'll also talk a little bit about what's going on in the news. Not much going on in the news,

but I do want to get our evolving weekly. We have to have a weekly DeAndre Hopkins check in.

I wouldn't even call it leverage. I would call a fallback plan for DeAndre Hopkins where if it had to come down to the Patriots of the Titans I think coming to New England. But the team that I continue to just be afraid of is Kansas City. If they get that Chris Jones contract extension done, they get some money, Maybe they convert some salaries to signing bonuses and things like that to get further under the cap. That seems like a great situation for him to play off of

Travis Kelce and they could use it. I think last year they Mahomes Magic kind of put them over the top without tyreek Hill, but maybe that seeps in a little bit more for them two years are moved from trading Tyreek Hill that they don't really have that other guy besides Kelsey, So I think that they're a team that's lurking. Obviously Buffalo some of the rumors out there that they would take them at a discount, like a

ring chasing type contract. He kind of called them out though and said, yeah, he's not doing that, So we'll see. But what's your where's your meter at right now? As you're check in on DeAndre Hopkins.

That means, you know, on and on and on. And there was that report last week from Mike Reese that the Titans were being more aggressive and the Patriots kind of you know, they had their meeting and went from there, and a lot of people interpreted that as the Titans offered more money. I actually interpreted a little differently. I read that as the Titans made their offer and since have been saying, come on, man, looking forward to hearing from you what you got. You made it, you made

up your mind, like they're battering him. Whereas the Patriots they put their offer on the table, they said, this is it. Yeah, let us know, call us, you know, we'll be here. And people may hear that and think of it as the Patriots being lazy. I don't think it is. Everybody's different. Some people don't like you know, he may have made it clear to them. I want to make my decision. I don't want to hear from you. Some people just operate that way. Maybe or maybe he didn't,

and maybe this is just how they do business. Just this is our offer, take it or leave it. But it does feel like they are kind of sitting back and letting everything else develop. And I've said this before, I think they got to be aggressive if they really want to get this guy. I don't think this is a situation where you can just sit back and let

the cards fall. Now, maybe if the circumstances seriously change, maybe if the Chiefs open up the money or somebody gets hurt, then they go and they say, all right, we realize your market's changed, and we're going to adjust our offer accordingly. But again, I think right now, if he had to decide today, he's a Patriot, but he doesn't have to decide today, and there's still a lot of time for things to change.

puts out an inquiry early. Sometimes it's not even a formal offer, just kind of floats their interest early and then maybe late in the process, one last phone call right of what's the number? What what? What do you think? And you know, And that's what my point is, I guess, is that the Patriots' most aggressive offer is never their first offer.

show you some legitimate aggressiveness or interest in the player. And I don't think DeAndre Hopkins is all that different. So that's where things stand now, turning the page to our our training camp preview, here a little bit where we're gonna operate under the assumption offensively and that wide receiver. When we get to wide receivers specifically, that deal and Hopkins is not a patriot untill he's a patriot, He's not a patriot, right, So just putting that caveat aside,

I do want to start with the quarterbacks. I think the biggest thing from a training camp perspective. We've talked about how you're not really gonna learn what we need to learn about the quarterbacks and about Mac Jones in August, like this is more a conversation for like January. But in terms of what we've seen so far, I'm not

expecting and we're not expecting. I think I can speak for you on this to see a quarterback competition in two weeks, Like, I don't think we're going to be seeing what we saw a couple of years ago with Cam Newton and Mac or Cam Newton and Jared Stidham and Brian Hoyer in the twenty twenty season. I don't think we're going to get into that sort of thing this offseason, which I do believe and I'm on the record with saying is a good thing. I think it's

a waste of time. I don't think that it's really something that bet ifits anybody, if the two players were if I really thought bailey 'z appy was like a potential long term anser. Then maybe when it was like Cam Newton versus Mac, like totally different scenario, right right, this is I feel like the best thing interested the team is to go in all in one more year with Mac and see where you come out with it.

I know that they were teasing me on unfiltered about seeing Mac yesterday and and chatting with him really quickly. But the one thing that I'm not gonna tell the story again, but the one thing that I'll take away from that he does look good, Alex, do you like hearing that he does look good? Yeah, he looks swoll, he looks a little thing.

good mindset right now, and we'll see what happens. But my big thing with the quarterbacks remains consistent, and that is you don't necessari I'm not at contract stage. I know the fifth year options coming up next off season. They do have some sort of deadline to make a contract decision. What I'm more interested in is is Mac a truck or is he a trailer?

Patrick Mahomes or you don't. You either have Tom Brady or you don't, and everybody it's it's like Patrick Mahomes, it's Joe Burrow and maybe for some people not you, but for some people it's Josh Allen And then like everybody else just stinks right like that that's how some people operate. I'm not like that. I do think that you can win with more of like a serviceable average game manager, whatever whatever name you want to put on

it type of quarterback. But again, if they picked that road, then they need to reflect that in the way that they build up the rest of the ross around him. They can't keep doing the same things that they did with Brady if they don't have an elite level quarterback. I'm not ruling out elite for mac Jones. I don't

think it's gonna be a leap intol elite status. But I'm not ruling out a significantly better season for mac Jones then maybe even his rookie year in terms of esthetic Like I don't know if the statistics will be a lot better than his rookie year, but like how it looks and how it feels, I think that we could be taught having a much different conversation in six months.

sped up. And I I feel like I give this explanation a lot, but I think it's really important for people to understand this. What sped up means. And every quarterback in their career has gotten sped up to some extent. Tom Brady would get sped up on the time from time to time. What sped up means is, you know, for an example, on a given play, okay, I need three seconds to get like the route it's gonna take

three seconds to develop. You know I have three seconds to get this ball out, and you know you're gonna have the three seconds. Now, if all of a sudden you start getting hit at two point five, two point six seconds, then all of a sudden your internal timings thrown off, and then you start rushing things because even then, when you have the time, you don't know if you do.

And Mac behind that offensive line last year and in an offense where the route patterns didn't match up with what he was being asked to do, and they didn't match up with each other, the timing was all off, and he got sped up and he never they were never able to reset his internal clock. Yeah, and everything

snowballed from there. So and look, some times, like I said, Tom Brady would get sped up in individual games here and there, and he was very good about all right, I'm just gonna, you know, gota calm down, reset and they'll figure it out now. He also played behind much better offensive lines than what Mac Jones might play behind this year, especially at the tackle position. But some quarterbacks get sped up and they recover. Some quarterbacks get sped

up and they never recover. That's what happened to Josh Rosen. Josh Rosen played behind the worst offensive line the NFL see in the last ten years, and he was panicky the rest of his career in the pocket. He never got over that. I'm not saying Mac Jones is gonna be Josh Rosen because I don't think he ever got sped up to that extent. But the biggest thing for me in camp is does he look comfortable in the pocket? Does he look confident in the pocket? Is he stepping

into throws? Is he rushing throws? All of that? Was he able to kind of reset himself mentally from where he was at last year dealing with that pass rush. Now, I think O'Brien's offense is really gonna help because it's a quick release offense. He's not gonna have as many instances where he's sitting back in the pocket for three three and a half four seconds. It's gonna be more two to two and a half con But you know, again, we're not gonna get the big picture answer on mac

Jones that everybody wants in that fifty year option. We can't even start talking about that until like Thanksgiving, But that's gonna be the first inclination again, is how comfortable does he look in the pocket?

What is his ability to create it out of structure as a big one obviously nowadays with all these mobile and athletic quarterbacks playing the position, but also just his ability to put the team on his back in the clutch moments and some of those intangible type of things like I'm not a big clutch guy like I take which is kind of hard to believe when you watch Tom Brady for twenty years.

pick six. Now you're up two scores, you coast the rest of the way. That's a fourth quarter comeback. No, yeah, I know there's some subject the stats. I would say that clutch is an unmeasurable clutch. It's just an unmeasurable That's fine.

asking him to do. Like you laid out, it felt like he was trying too too hard to like be a playmaker back there and let and make things happen. And when he's at his best, it just it's in rhythm, it's in sync, and it just kind of he's just distributing the ball so that it just happens on it naturally, right. There's it's not forced. Like when you watch Mac at Alabama, and I know it's a different game and he played with all these receivers YadA, YadA, YadA, we all know.

But when you watch him at Alabama, it never looked hard, right, And it never looked hard. It never looked like he was forcing the issue. It never looked like he had to pull something out of his out of his back pocket or anything like that. And that's when I'm gonna know that Mac is back on the right track is when last year it looked hard for him. It looked overwhelming, He looked overwhelmed, he was frustrated. It showed visibly, but it also showed on the film like at what point

it needs to look easy for him again? And he's that type of guy. He's not. I think sometimes that it looks hard for Josh Allen to play quarterback, but he's just so physically gifted that it doesn't matter a lot of the time, right he just overcomes it. I think Mac Jones is a natural quarterback that just needs to make it look easy. And we'll see if you can get back to that. And the last thing you

mentioned pressure he missed the patients in the pocket. A lot of that comes from knowing where your answers are right, and I think that's when it comes back to the coordination too, Like if they have this blitz on, like how are we sliding the protection, how are we picking it up? Where's the hot route? Where's the distribution? Like where am I getting the football out to? Like those types of things are really really key. We got a cool email. I want to read an email right off

the top. This is from Jeremiah, who is one of the lucky thirty kids that got to catch passes from Mac Jones yesterday at his clinic here at ja Led Stadium from the YMCA. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on where the YMCN was located, but he's actually a big fan

of the show. Apparently. Oh nice, And he emailed it and he said, yesterday I was fortunate enough to catch passes from Mac and from first hand point of view, he did have a first hand point of view, it felt like he had some good velocity on the ball, so you know, to throw that. Phil Perry posted on Twitter it wasn't seventy yards in the air, okay, That football field is in the full hundred. That aside, it was probably like sixty right, like fifty to sixty yards

in the air. I'm not good with I'm terrible at that. Like the landmarks and stuff, I'm terrible at it. I need rulers. Anyways, I was standing on the far end of the end zone from where he was throwing the football. You can actually see me in my gray polo off to the side if you look really closely. So I was to se in the far side of the field from where he was throwing that ball, and you could hear it. You could hear it like you could hear the wiz, the whizzing right of the ball going through

the air. And I actually said to one of our our social guys I was standing next to me, I said that, you know, the ball that's got some zip on it, like these are these are some These are some fastballs. You know. He wasn't like going easy on these kids. He was. He was throwing some some real darts out there. I do think he looks a little bit stronger. I do think the ball's coming out well.

I think his mechanics look good. Now, granted this was against air with absolutely no competition on the field whatsoever. But that's what it comes down to, uh for mac is we even last year, even with as big of a disaster as it was around him last year, his kept clean numbers were still good. He grated out well when he was kept clean. His passer rating was over one hundred when he was kept clean. In the pocket, we know that he can throw, He can go out

there and sling it like that. All day long. He can do it. The question is going to ultimately be a we can he do it under pressure? Can he do it under duress? Can he do it from a muddied pocket when he can't step into it and really put his weight behind the football and he has to just kind of flick the wrists? Like can he get it there?

it was like fifty five to sixty. I'm gonna say it was probably like fifty to fifty five. But regardless, it was a good throw. Let's move on to to running backs here and then we'll take some of these calls after that. So with running backs, you know, I think we didn't really do the one big thing thing. I'm gonna tee that up better this time. Yeah, my one big thing with running backs is Pierre Strong. I'm gonna continue hit hammering the table for Pierre Strong. Look,

I'm a sucker for big plays. I'm a sucker for explosive offense, and there just aren't that many guys on this roster that have that big play capability outside of Pierre Strong and probably Taekwon Thornton, right, Like, those are the two guys that can really bring that speed element. If I'm Bill O'Brien, other than remondros Stevenson. Of course, I'm trying to find ways to get Pierre Strong to

football in space. And it's not that it's not that complicated, Like we're not putting too much on his play just throw him the screen here or there, hand the ball off to him, and so subpackage looks where there's some space to run. Maybe hit him on a swing pass coming out of the backfield. Every once in a while, let's just see what Pierre Strong can do with the

football in his hands. And I would also say that that being my one big thing, that running back is also tied to some of the free agent running backs that are available that we've talked about a lot, Dalvin Cook,

Zeke Elliott, Leonard Fournette. If it's not coming together for Pierre Strong and it doesn't look like he's gonna be somebody that you can count on in year two, if some of those guys are unsigned May and August, you know, going into that big like ten day layoff between the third preseason game and the first regular season game in the opener against the Eagles, and you're not really feeling great about Pierre Strong and Kevin Harris, then maybe it's

time to call Zeke, right, Like, maybe that's when you make one of those phone calls. So it's twofold one. I think that he is a legitimate, big play weapon that they should get involved and see, even if it's just four or five times a game just to try to get him a touch and get him out in

the open field. I'd love to see that, but you also have to see something from him to be able to put some pressure or to be able to back up Ramondri Stevenson and be able to avoid having to go into the free agent market, because I do think we could wake up in six weeks and they might be signing a running back because they don't feel great about it.

the year. I don't think any running back in the modern game could be like a three hundred and fifty touch player. It's just the game's too physical now.

by it's not that I think he's bad. I want him on the field, but I want him on the field at his best. And I remember there was a game last year, I don't remember which game it was, but they were up like two scores late in the game, h with like a minute and a half to go, and they were still giving the bald to Stevenson to run out the clock, and it was like, he doesn't need to be in the game right now. Kevin Harris, Pierre Strong, somebody.

just take half of each? Remember this is what it looked like they're gonna do last year, before time Montgomery got hurt, it looked like they were gonna go away from the early down passing down back layout and basically, all right, this is a Remandree drive. This is a Time Montgomery drive. This is a Damien Harris Hraff. I actually like that set up better. Now, it's really hard to do.

replace James White? Is Kevin Harris ready to take on a more regular early down back roll? And those are all good questions that we'll start answering as well. That's a big position battle, essentially the second running back, But we don't know what the second running backs duties are going to be because there was no second running back. That's the true point, right, So let's figure out what

Ramondre Stevenson's doing. And then when we find out, all right, here's what Ramondre's doing, here's what the other guy's doing, then we can look at it and say, okay, here's the one right, here's what the responsibility is for RB two. Who fits it best? Because Strong, Harris, and Montgomery are all very different players. Yeah, they all bring very different things to the table. So that is you're like the

thing about Pierre Strong. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think to know what the running back this is gonna be, it all starts with Andre Stevenson. We need to know what his role is going to be, and then we go from there.

Smith and Hunter Henry. Because if this tight end duo can really be a factor this year, I think it helps the team into two ways. One obviously, it helps the team because those guys are going to be productive and that just inherently helps the team on an individual

level that they're going to be productive. But I think the other thing that it really helps the team with is they become one of those twelve personnel offenses that is really multiple and now what you can really do is you have an answer to whatever test the defense

throws out on the field against you. When I'm talking more personnel wise than schematically like and then like you know, actual play design personnel wise, if defenses match their twelve personnel with standard nickel, that means that somebody is getting a linebacker in coverage, right It just by the sheer numbers of it. Somebody is getting a linebacker in coverage, whether it's Kasiki or Henry or Remandre right or one of the running backs Juju in the slot, like, somebody

is facing a linebacker in coverage and invanted Patriots. Now, if they put dime defense out there, then now you have two tight ends. And let's just say for argument's sake, right now it's Remandre. Well, now you can go under center and you can run the football down their throats. Right, you got six dbs on the field. We have two tight ends. We got this workhorse back in Remondre's two hundred and twenty pounds. Here it comes at you, stop it.

So I think that in order for that to happen, though, they have to be really productive passing the football out of twelve personnel like that has to be a carrying trait for the offense, right, they have to be able to say we can threaten out of this grouping in the passing game, and if they can do that, then they might be able to force teams either they're just gonna be better right and they're going to move the ball through the air, or they might be able to

force teams to play lighter defense, which isn't going to allow him to run the football. So I think that that's why twelve personnel and this is something that Bill O'Brien is fantastic at. He's really good at using indicators and using formations to threaten defense. He loves empty, right, We've talked about that a ton.

the same time. Right, and then you get into some of the things that they used to do with vintage O'Brien, like twenty eleven Patriots pace empty, no huddle, right, like yeah, and then all of a sudden you get let's say they get Week one against Philly, and they really like running the football against Philly's dime package, like they think

that's a true advantage for them. If you can get their dime package on the field against your twelve personnel, well, now you go no huddle, and now they can't substitute, and now you get them stuck in these personnel groupings. This is what the Patriots used to do when they were humming, like when they were at their best. The other thing that they would really do a lot of

is use it to their advantage for coverage indicators. If you put Remandra Stevenson out on the boundary and he's technically your outside receiver, if he gets followed by a linebacker outside, what is it? It's man coverage. Linebacker is not playing the deep third in zone coverage, right, it's man. If he gets followed by a corner or a corner just bumps over and takes him, then it all of a sudden. You can see that at zone coverage. So

it's two things. It's one it's formations, right, it gives you advantages in terms of matchups within the formation, but it's also pre snap coverage indicators of is it man or zone based off of how they match the tight ends,

how they match the backs and things like that. How many times did we used to see with Brady they would get a look pre snap they'd go five wide empty and like sometimes James Devlin would like be all the way out here, and they would see that the linebacker was out there with him, and then they would know it was man coverage. So then they would throw a seam to like Juliet Edelman against a linebacker because this corner is stuck on James Devlin, right, or something

like that. Or how many times would we see them get this five wide look? They look at it, they say, the defense is in a pretty good shell against what they're throwing, and all of a sudden, Brady calls everybody back in and now we're under center against dime defense and we're running the football because that's the look that the defense gives them. Those are the types of things that I want to see the Patriots be able to

get back to. But all of it to me, and this is why it's my one big thing with the tight ends, all of it to be comes back to You can only do that if you're productive out of twelve personnel, right, and the problem was that the reason why they use twelve personnel so few and far between, relatively speaking with Johnny Smith and Hunter Henry is because they weren't a good offense with the two of them on the field together. They were a better offense with

just using one at a time. If they're gonna be if they're gonna max out their personnel, then it's got to be both of them together. And I think that that's gonna be a huge, huge, sort of tipping point for the whole offense. And that's why it's my one big thing for tight ends. I think like getting into like Johnny Lumpkin and Scottie Washington is a little bit. You know, that's training camp fodder for sure, but in terms of the big picture, it's got to be they've

got to be a twelve personnel base. They have to be able to rely on that, and that's how they can really mess with defenses and have an answer.

talking about his hall of fame. I mean, if you're thinking about the Patriots history of dynasty, really a lot of people argue that it's Belichick versus Brady, but really the real answer is all three was Robert Kraft, Belichick, and Brady. They all contributed, and they all helped each other and built that gynasty for twenty years. And that's only one of the reasons that he belonged in the

Hall of Fame. But when you when you ask him, and here's my educated guest, about payments, about salary, about any of that, you know, Robert Kraft the first decisions like that, when he's not the expert, he's going to bring in people that are experts. So I don't think he had any kind of limit on that. I don't think he would put his decisions. I don't think Belichick

even went to him with that kind of stuff. The people in the building that are going to make the salar decisions in terms of who they're going to put on the team, who they're going to keep, and how it's going to work around that, and that's that's how they built the team. The other thing I wanted to point out, as you were talking to obviously about Stanley Morgan, Yeah, he definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. And the reason he's not won, well, they never wanted

to Super Bowl. But also they were a running team in a running era. The Patriots never had a really strong passing game until I'd say till Bledsoget got there in the early nineties. I don't remember any year besides eighty six that he had more than like eighty targets, Like they weren't counting targets, but the guy didn't drop the ball like he just he had like nineteen average

one over nineteen now yards per catch is incredible. He definitely was one of the best receivers in the history of the nfls And my second thing that I wanted to bring up we were talking earlier about quarterbacks. Good quarterback always being clutched. Well, here's one example I think that the or not bad is Aaron Rodgers, one of the top quarterbacks. I wouldn't consider him clutch And I'll leave you guys for comment on that.

If I could. What a bottom line is is that I just think that there's a really nuanced answer to how they handle their salary cap and how they handle their payroll quite frankly, in terms of the NFL roster, in terms of the roster the football team, excuse me, And I just want to know, like I just want to know what's like the forty chests that they're playing with the with the payroll, because I know it's not as simple as like you know, mister Craft sets a

budget and Bill has to stick to it, and that's that it's it's much more nuanced than that. And I think that they're you know, the talk radio fodder is about the real cash spending and all that kind of stuff. And I would love to hear like an economics one on one course on on how they they handle their payroll because they are not pumping any tires here. They are one of the best, if not the best, salary

cap management teams in the NFL for twenty plus years. Yes, so they whether it's their nerds are great and their accountants are great, or whatever the case may be, they do a really good job. And I'm one hundred percent with you on rober Kraft getting into the Hall of Fame, hundred percent with you on the steamer Stanley Morgan getting into the Hall of Fame mentioned they didn't throw a lot. That's probably why. Stanley Morgan, what was the leader in yards per catch until like.

how to play position. My Patriots point regarding mac Evan not just the twelve person of all, I just think offensively, they have to be better everywhere, you know, And like I said, uh a few weeks ago, I think that's going to be the breakout player because I do think he is a smart quarterback. And I mean we thought the last great era with Brady and and Nanning, and

I mean they did they had great arms. They didn't have the greatest arms of all time are the best arm talent, but they just they were just so smart. They knew how to play the game. They knew how to been to the late defense. And I think that with O'Brien back here on board, I think they're they're

going to get him the freedom. Hopefully they get the freedom to use his great statt which is his brain at the line of scrimmage to make plays, you know, to get the defense, as you guys like to say, you know, put them in stress or however you articulated. So that's where I'm coming from. That's what I want to see and let's go, baby. I can't wait for freaking training Gip.

And although I don't think that he's in that conversation currently, he's probably the one player that I would say that that has the best potential to be next year and probably needs to be right, and that certainly needs to be next year. But I I like what I've seen from Max so far in the in the in the spring, excuse me, it's obviously spring. It's it's early. But I like more importantly, I I like the way he's carried himself,

in the way that he's he's talked. I think that there's a lot to be said for the fact and look he's thrown I know your station is a little bit more subjective to these types of things than me. He's thrown some verbal jabs, potentially in press conferences, even in the spring, you know, talking about it being normal and like stuff like that compared to last year. But for the most part, he has been quiet. He's he's

kept his door, his mouth kind of shut. He's worked hard, he's put his head down, and he's gotten ready for the season. He hasn't done press. He hasn't like given an exclusive to somebody about how awful the Matt Patricia hero was or you know something like that, right, Like, he hasn't done any of those types of things. And I think he has got a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. I'm just that's all I'm gonna say about it. But I think he's got it. I

think he's got a chip. I think he hears it and he's not Yeah, definitely, he's not hearing it like in like a Braddy of like get off my lawn type of way. I think he's hearing it and like using it. You know, he's trying to at least.

Their defense was on the field a ton through the first three quarters of that game, even though they had the big lead, and then late they were gassed yea, And that, among other things, is what opened the door for the Patriots.

How many teams does each play run? And even though it's a close game, maybe the Patriot are head a little bit, the other team offensively has run like thirty more plays than the Patriots because Patriots scored on a pick six or a big player or something like that. And I'm like, here we go. The defense is gonna get gased. That is such a great point. They need more sustained drives. And you know where this is massive, Evan is against Buffalo.

be perfect. It shrinks their margin for error. I think it was the Bucks game. I forget which game it was. It might have been the Bills game. One of the games of twenty twenty one. No, I remember this. We had this conversation that my whole key to the game was you can't allow them a ninth drive if they like they're average per year, whatever we got it for the year.

in the Dallas game, that you knew the Cowboys. The defense just had nothing left, like the Cowboys just walked down the field.

Nine drives are fewer. They scored the game winning field goal on their tenth drive.

best defenses to watch on film in the NFL. And they get this paper tiger label from a lot of people because they don't go toe to toe with Josh Allen and they don't shut out the Bills, or they don't you know, Lamar Jackson has a huge game on them, or justin Fields in that Monday night game, which granted was a bad game, and yeah, that was just not

letting them off the hook for it. But my point, my general point is is that I would like to see the Patriots defense and how they would look if the offense is pulling the rope in the same direction, if the offense is playing complimentary football, if the offense is sustaining drives at the offense is you know, breaking even on play counts in time of possession, if the

offense is putting up thirty points in a game. Yeah, if you're telling me that the offense is holding its end of the bargain, how does the Patriots defense look then, Because when the Patriots defense gets into a game, their margin over the last couple of years, and certainly last year was basically like, if you hold it, don't hold this offense to twenty points or under, we're losing.

on a previous show that what an elite defense. You're never gonna see the two thousand Baltimore Ravens again. You're never gonna see the two thousand and two Tampa Buccaneers again. You're never gonna see two thousand four Patriots again. The definition of an elite defense in the modern age is very different. It's basically, can you give your offense enough of a chance to go punch for punch at the end every single week? Because I know that sounds like not a lot, Oh, can you just keep them in

the game? There are a lot of defenses that more often than not can't even keep their team in the game, no matter how good the offense. And that's what this defense does. They keep the offense in the game. More often than not, they just can't finish it. I do want to say so. First off, I have here Super Bowl fifty one. The Patriots ran. I have to do.

Alabama's offense in that game ran sixty six plays.

I don't have very many issues outside of the big caveat you know, the big elephant to the room of matt Patricia last year, like in terms of like what he does on a week to week, day to day basis with the football team, the game planning, the x's and o's, the playbook right, Like, I don't have any issues with any of that stuff. I'll still take Bill Belichick over the field when it comes to his ability

to coach and manage the football team in season. My biggest gripe with Bill is roster construction and roster building. And I think Matthew just made the point for me. It comes down to how do you view the quarterback position and if you're operating under the assumption that the quarterback is gonna make the whole thing go, I don't know if you have that guy yet that makes you

feel comfortable with that. And when they had Brady, like if you put Brady not forty six year old Brady or however old he is now, but just Brady in an offense with Juju and Kasiki and Henry and Parker and Born and Thornton, Like, I think this offense would be a top five offense yeah, with Tom Brady, But they don't have Tom Brady. So that means that instead of a top I mean.

my ideal is to be quarterback proof. And we've talked about this concept a lot, to be able to be able to just have everything so buttoned up around the quarterback that if you just get adequate quarterback play, then you're gonna be fine. And if you don't have one of those franchise guys, that's what you need to strive for. That's what you need to go for. And to me,

the Patriots are not operate. The Patriots are operating like Mac Jones is a franchise quarterback is like this elite franchise guy where they can be okay with middling weapons, but they don't have that guy at the quarterback position. And until that, philosophically, they basically have like three doors that they could walk through. Door number one is that Mac Jones takes that next step and becomes elite yep. Door number two is that they move on from Mac.

Or door number three is that Bill changes his philosophy, and Bill goes from Juju Smith Schuster being the highest paid receiver on the Patriots roster to trading and paying Jerry Judy right like or whatever the case may be. And if Bill is not going to walk through door number three with mac Jones as the quarterback here, then I will continue to have gribes with him, but I don't have any grips with them in terms of like, Okay, it's Tuesday and we're game planning for the Philadelphia Eagles.

I'm still taking Bill. Yeah, And I think that that's like sort of the difference. And for some people, I get that that's like a confusing it's the same person, even though it's two different jobs GM and coach. It's the same person here. So it's all falls on Bill. So if you're out on him as a GM, then you're also out in him as a coach. Like that's sort of how it works for a lot of people.

But for me, I separate the two things. I don't know if he'll change, and I don't know if mac Jones is going to be elite so and I don't know if they're gonna move on. And that's how you just get stuck at eight and nine, right, Like, that's just how well. I mean, they're gonna have to They're not gonna extend mac Jones. He's not good, right, But when I say move on, I guess is more like for his fourth and fifth year.

give Taekwon opportunities. And I know you're right about you can't do it at expense at the quarterback, right if he's a better player. You gotta play the better player. But I look at the way that Bill O'Brien can use Taekwon and use his speed out on the field, and you know, separate from signing DeAndre Hopkins, like that's the one caveat of Like if they sign him, then

obviously I don't really care about Taekwon as much. But to me, my one big thing is that you have to you have to make Taekwon work at some point. You got to make one of these receivers work that you've drafted. You gotta they gotta figure it out. You gotta develop them. It's not just about how they use them. It's not just about scheme and Bill O'Brien like, can we also develop a receiver, like can we get making a receiver better? I think they did that with Jacoby

even though it wasn't drafted. Yeah, I think they did that with Jacoby, So they're capable of doing it. But I think with Jacoby the difference was Jacoby had the drive and he had the he put in a ton of work. He put in a ton of work, thank you. That's the best way to put it. He put in a ton of work.

how quickly it drops. It all evaporates once you lose one or two guys. And we haven't seen Juju Smith Schuster on the field yet. We don't know exactly kind of injury Taekwon's dealing with. DeVante Parker is a guy who is healthy right now, but as a history of getting banged up, they gotta stay healthy. They've got to stay healthy through camp and get into the season healthy and then maybe, you know, once you build a little bit of rhythm offensively, it's easier if you lose a

player here or there. But this group's got to stay healthy and they didn't last year. Taekwan got hurt, and I think it was the second preseason game. Was it the first one he had that collarbone injury? They have to stay healthy.

I don't think that his his ceiling is very high, and I think his floor is very high, right, Like, I think he's gonna be an eighty catch, nine hundred yard guy if he's out there, but I keep forgetting that he wasn't out there, right, And that's that's a big deal. That's a big big.

the collar brodne injury and the whole thing gets dereealed. Look, I don't think that he would have been a good player regardless, But similar things happened with Nikkeel right where he gets injured early on and he was the ankle right that landed one injured reserve his rookie season, and he just never got he never caught up. It always Yeah, it always felt like he was taking on water from that point on, and you just hope that it's not

the same for Taekwon. All right. Offensive line got some questions in the emails from David and some other people about tackles. My big thing with the offensive line, it's to me, it's all on Adrian Clement, Bill O'Brien. You know what you have. It's a group that in the past, and I'm in the past, they had Dante Scarnekia. I'm on record, I think he's the greatest offensive line coach of all.

straight line. I think it's gonna be an up and down road at tackle, and I don't think if there's any real solve, there's no internal solve that's just gonna make you not have to worry about tackle. And there's no external solve all either, because their tackles don't grow on trees and they don't get traded or moved very often if they can play. So you're gonna have to coach around it. You're gonna have to scheme around it.

You're gonna have to coach guys up. They're gonna have to get back to like developing offensive lineman, go figure right, like guys like you know, Calvin Anderson. I think is is still a a semi ball of clay. I know he's been in the league for a couple of years, but he's a really good athlete. He started some games we go only has twelve starts in three years. I think he's got a lot of potential. Maybe they can coach him up and make him serviceable at one of

the tackle spots. Trent Brown like, that's a guy you gotta be on. You gotta be on his case. You gotta keep him at focused, You got to keep him at the right weight. You got to keep them locked in maybe one of these rookie guards pops, you know, maybe it's Antonio Mafi, maybe it's Uh, it's City Sow. Whether it's a tackle or it's guard, right, you got to develop some of these.

that can be involved here too. Nothing should be off the table. That means Mike go and win it right. That's why I brought up the rookies right, so that means Michael winning it right. Tackle if it's Mafi on the end side, or giving City sour reps, or being open to Trent playing Trent Brown on the left or right side, being open to playing Riley Reef on the left or right side, I think everybody but McDermott pretty much his side versatile. That is the one advantage this

group has is Trent Brown's a true swing tackle. Riley Reef is close. Calvin Anderson's played right tackle.

would ideally like to keep him at guard. I think they would too, but it has to be on the table that he could potentially be a right tackle for this year. I think he's the best right tackle they have on the roster besides maybe Trent, But Trent's probably the best left tackle they have on the roster. So

he's just the best tackle they have. So wherever Trent isn't you know, if Trent is going to play the left side, then I think that on when who's your best right tackle on the roster and you got to give it a shot.

Bay or in Tennessee than you know, approaching Halloween. So just I think it all needs to be on the table and whatever works, it works, and you just cross your fingers and you hope it sticks.

Ted Carris than Mike on Wenhu. Even though on paper, if we're doing Madden ratings, like Mike Godwin who has a higher matting rating than Ted Carris, but once you get out there on the field, it just looks better with Ted Carris out there. So I'm with you, all all hands on deck, all options on the table. I liked what I saw out of Calvin Anderson in the spring, so I'm hoping that maybe he can carry that over at left tackle with the pads come on, and maybe

he is better bet at left tackle for you. He's got some athleticism, some range, he can pass protect. He fits the mold of their typical like more sleek, athletic like Nate Solder style left tackle.

And I'm saying me, no, he was I forgot. I mean he was hurt a lot of the year last year, he at so he's kind of out of sight, out of mind. I have him too.

an impact, right, he was making it. He was an issue for offense. I should say he was making an impact. He wasn't getting sacks, but there were times where he was just chasing the quarterback into sacks for Matthew Judah and things like that, and then he got hurt and I think he missed. He missed like two months. He missed a while long time, and I don't think he was fully healthy when he got back. Just that's not like inside information. Just watching him, he didn't look as

explosive as he normally looks. Here we go, he's fully healthy. Year three, can he make that jump? I will say, though, if he doesn't make it this year, I think then he just is who he is, which is still a good player. But yeah, yeah, you look at it, and this is for all the for everything we've talked about with Mac Jones and the fifty year option, it's not all that different. Well, for Barbour there is no fifth

year option. This is it three and four, right, He's up for the extension this time next year, So.

think that he has the ability to do it. And if he becomes a true interior game wrecker for you, And now you have Barmore coming up the middle, and you have Judon and Uce and Keon White potentially mixing in now too on the edges and getting after quarterbacks, that's that's really really deep. It's a good group. I mean,

it's a good defensive line. I think he's one of those guys that and I did my top five Patriot list, I was like, well, in reality, like if I'm just going off of pure talent, then Christian Barmore probably is pretty close to this top five, Like, yeah, just who is the best physical football player on this team? Christian Barmore is in that conversation. I think, maybe not the

top of the conversation. I still think Judon is in his kind of a class of his own, to be honest, Kyle Duggar belongs in that that ballpark or that tier. But I think Christian Barmore is in that mix as well. So we're in agreement on defensive line that it's Christian Barmore. I think that he doesn't get talked about enough with this team taking that next step because they do have some of the younger defenders, you know, gonzales A Mapu. Yeah,

and he kind of gets lost a little bit. Let's I don't I think it's important at edge here outside linebacker. Excuse me, edge. I'm gonna say edge, just to grind your gears. Edge. It's a big thing with josh u j. I think it's a big thing that we have to we touch on. His season last year was interesting. There is some regressing to the mean potential there and there's also the potential that he's just really good. Right, So either way, what can josh u Ja do to earn

a second contract in Bill Belichick's eyes? Because to me, racking up up eight sacks in the second half of the year, all of his sacks last year came eleven or eleven Excuse me, I mean last eight weeks of the year, last eight weeks. All of his sacks last year came in the second half of the season.

like he proves that it wasn't sustainable. He goes back to the player he was the first two and a half years of his career, and at that point, I mean, you can't extend him, but it's kind of a you know, replacement level player. Or he proves that the second half of last year is the player he really is, in which case he's going to beat that's more than he was, averaging more to sack per game. He probably becomes one of the top five free agents in the market and the Patriots aren't gonna pay him.

into this season and play. And it's just I either he was the guy, he's one of two players. It's this is essentially kind of what we're doing with Mac Jones, but on a different scale. Two sacks through his first I think it's like twenty five games and then eleven in his last eight. Which guy is he? Either guy? I don't think the Patriots pay They want consistent middle like I don't want to say middle of the road pass rushers, but they want consistent guys. They want pass

rushers who bring consistency. And if there's one thing, I think josh Uja is a pretty good player, but he's not consistent. You can't sit here and say he's consistent and that's what the Patriots want from that position.

They do it for Judon, because Judon's that good. And so unless Uch's like the because Judon's got I think two more years.

the stylistic reasons that you laid out. So back to the cop the comp that I would save for josh Uja that I could think of as a sound reddick with the Eagles, who I think is a similar smaller edge guy, but has that explosive gear that get off that ability to rush the quarterback. Reddick has been better against the run, but he's also had more opportunities to be better against the run. So he got a three year, forty five million dollar deal with the Eagles last year,

so fifteen million per on a total value basis. It was a fourteen point two million dollars signing bonus thirty million dollars in guaranteed money, So basically a two year, thirty million dollar deal with the play the team option for the third season. That's basically what he got. So I think if I'm josh josh U J's agent, that's that's sort of a starting point, or that's sort of what my goal is. I guess say would be something along the same lines. In terms of APY. I don't

know how they structure and all that stuff. In terms of APY, I don't think the are coming close to paying fifteen million a year for Joshu Jay, which means that he's probably out of here anyways. But I I really I think he's a good pass rusher. I think he's in his bag. He's got like seventeen dinner.

And that's that's why I said, you know, brought it up as my one big thing at Edge because I don't know what the what the world is that Joshu j gets a second contract with the Patriots. And it's one of those things where it's a little bit tricky because you mentioned Chandler Jones not a bad comparison, especially because they play the same position. He is deserving if he has another good year, I should go, yeah, he's

deserving of it. Yeah, but it just doesn't necessarily make sense with the way that they play defense, right, it's a tricky one. I would also just mention quickly at edge the other big thing behind Well, look, so.

use him. Yeah, it's if they're willing to use him the way that we want him to use him, which is at linebacker, not at safety, and not at like Kyle Dugger safety like no. I want him playing linebacker, inside linebacker and next to Juwan Bentley, who I think is gonna be rock solid for you again this year with Bentley and Mapu, to me, has a lot of potential. I think that he's got He's might be the missing ingredient to solving some of these mobile quarterbacks. He might

be he might be a Josh Allen killer. And if that's if that's what he ends up being, then then watch out with this defense. I think this defense that to me is the biggest X factor. I think a lot of people make Christian Gonzalez the biggest X factor. I kind of know or feel like I know what they're gonna get at a Gonzalez this year. I'm not

saying it's gonna be perfect. I think there's gonna be ups and downs to it, certainly, But I think that with Gonzalez, you know that you're probably gonna have a starting outside corner on a rookies like kind of like Devin mccordy his rookie year right, Like, it might not be perfect, but he's gonna be able to hold down the position and play it at a pretty good level. Marty Mapo is the X factor. He's the swing guy. If he is is a force like we think he

might be able to be. I think that their defense just got a whole lot better in terms of the upside of the defense, especially against mobile quarterbacks. And they once again, not all of them are like super mobile, but Jalen Hurts is on the schedule, Josh Allen's on the schedule, Mahomes is on the schedule, Herbert's on the schedule, and then in Miami they still run a lot of RPO option looks with Tuo, even though he's not truly mobile mobile, they still run a lot of that stuff.

So solving these like college spread offenses and these athletic quarterbacks playing the position, it's Marty Mapoo. He's might be one of the biggest things out of all the big things. I kind of narrowed in on it a little bit, just what does he look like? In fully padded practice. I feel like from the spring we got a good idea about his athleticism as instincts was football IQ all that, and they all check the boxes like they there's a

reason we were raving about him. But he's still six three two seventeen and that's not big for Patriots linebacker. When he's got to take on a guard in the a gap, Yeah, what is that gonna look like? That is the biggest Just hope, all right, let all right, let me that. I hope I know what you mean.

Can he bring him down when it's tight ends over the middle of things like that, Like, I just need to see him in contact because that's the last box he hasn't checked. He shouldn't be shooting the a gap. I regret I said that. That's why Bentley's here. He's even said he's playing next to Bentley. Bentley's gonna run downhill and Martine mop who's gonna handle your east to west?

I don't know how much of this we'll see early on, but you know, Green Bay, Tennessee two minute trail, Ones on ones, Who's back? Who's deep?

for the safeties this year, just overall's versatility. The way they're going to make the most out of the safety position is putting guys in different spots and mixing and matching, and no player is better suited for that than Jabrill Peppers. Yeah, so I don't know that he's gonna be like they're starting deep safety. I don't even know that he's going to be their most used safety.

People didn't realize how young he's still young. I am really excited for what Chah Bill Peppers is gonna do this year. I think he could be like I again, I don't know that he's gonna be their most of use safety. I think Duggart's gonna play more. I think Pepper's. I think Phillips is gonna play more. But like third down, gotta have it downs, I think they're gonna put Jabrill Peppers on the field in a spot to make a play, and I think he's gonna make some plays, all right.

are terrifically structurally sound. I know some places that track it is a little bit subjective of how they track it, but like in terms of like busted coverage rate, the Patriots are always, you know, the top of the league, and how good they are at not doing that right. Like they don't just let guys run through. They don't just lose guys like twenty yards behind the defense like that thing. That type of thing just doesn't happen here. I'm not saying they don't get beat, but they get

beat because it's just man on man. They get beat, right, right, But they don't beat themselves. They're not you know, they don't play cover three and they they don't have a hook, right and you're looking around and you're like, who's the hook? Right, Like, they don't. That stuff doesn't happen with the Pats. And a lot of that was because they basically had a defensive coordinator on the field in the back end. It's safe, right, a lot of that and it's gonna be a big

deal for them. It's gonna be a big deal. All right, let's move over to corners. One big thing at corner. I thought about going Christian Gonzales here. It's it's it's it's low hanging fruit. I'll let you take that one.

about a lot last week. I'd still like to see them out a veteran boundary corner, like a true third veteran boundary corner, even if it's just Terrence Mitchell coming back, just so you don't end up in a spot this year where you're having to play both Jonathan Jones and Marcus Jones on the boundary regularly.

he's better at corner. He's gonna play corner. And when I say better, I mean more use for the matchup. So if when they play Cincinnati, instead of having to run Jonathan Jones against T Higgins, now, now maybe Jalen Mills plays corner that game and Jonathan Jones gets who goes back into the middle of the field for the day.

If they're playing a match against Miami, maybe Miami is a matchup where Jalen plays more, plays more safety because they have smaller receivers, and they don't necessarily need Jalen Mills to play on the outside. I think Jalen Mills now goes and puts fires out.

in the slot. And Miles bryan I've said this for I don't think Miles Bryant would be a bad third safety, fourth safety, whatever, like extra safety that's probably a better role than him. We don't need seem in man coverage anymore.

make the playoffs again this year. They're not gonna get back to the playoffs if they're losing games because of special teams. And when I say losing games, maybe that's a little strong, but if special teams is working against them, they're gonna have a lot of trouble. I think yeah, And they are gonna have to be a clean football team again. And this is part of the reason why Bill O'Brien's back is to not necessarily because they need to, you know, change philosophies to score forty points a game

or like, it's not that deep. It's simply just they need to be cleaner on offense. They need to be a more well oiled machine. I think special teams is the same way. They need to be cleaner. They can't be running into the punter on fourth and three anymore. They can't be giving up two kickoff return touchdowns in a must win, basically playoff game in Week eighteen of the season in Buffalo. We can go down the line with all all the things that happened last year that

needs to change. And in the spring, Alex we saw a lot of Joe Judge on special teams. It almost felt like exclusively he's the special teams coordinator, even though he's not listed as a special teams coordinator. That is what it feels like. And if that's the answer, then that's the answer. But this, to me is the biggest risk that Bill Belichick is taking with this team again. This year is he's counting on Joe Judge to do

something again. He's counting on Joe Judge to clean up special team and if special teams are a disaster again. All those calls that we didn't get as many of them on this show. They know not to call us

about the drama. They leave that for Patriots unfiltered. But all the calls that we get we got earlier today on PU about Belichick's future and about his status as a coach here with the Patriots, if they lose a must win game again like they did last year against Buffalo because of kickoff returns, and it's Joe Judge's fault, it's just another It's another bullet in the old Ammo chamber.

year and Camra Cord was a special teams coordinator. Now Joe Houston's basically like the assistant to the assistant special teams coach. Right, all right, it's it's the old Dwight true. So at what point, like, how does that affect the dynamic and how does it affect at all? They need to be better in the kicking game. They need to go get back to in twenty one they were really good in the kicking game. Obviously in twenty they were I think that was probably their best year under a Cord.

That was the year that you know, Gunner goes the against All Pro nods as a returner. Bailey was an All Pro punter that year. They won games on special teams or you know, had big plays in games on special teams. I should say this team's gonna need it. They're gonna need those points. They're gonna be the hidden yards. They're gonna need the occasional block punt, they're gonna need the occasional field flipping return. They're gonna need to cover

kicks well. And if that's how they win, you know, that's how they're gonna win, you know, playoff amount of games, that's how they're gonna beIN ten to eleven games as if they do that. So that's a big deal with the special teams. I think that about does it here. Like I said at the beginning of the show, Alex and I are going to record right after this and you guys are gonna hear it next week, A how to a faq as Fred called it, of Patriots training camp.

We're gonna get into the weeds a little bit about how we watch camp and that type of stuff. Well, altys have some fun with it and give some suggestions of you know, lunch spots and that type of thing. But it's a it's a Patriots Catch twenty two faq on training camp. But don't don't call in next Thursday, all right, don't call in, don't email in. It's not gonna be live live. We're live to tape. We're live to tape, So keep that in mind. And I will

be on vacation. But and hopefully Just isn't listening to this. But if DeAndre Hopkins signed, we might have to do an emergency pod. So we'll we'll think about that when the cause, well cause everage when we get to it all right, But until then, make sure you still listen to next week's show. We will have something for you in my stead, we promise, but until then, signing off for Alex Bart, I'm Evan Lazar. Thanks for watching on YouTube, thanks for listening, and we'll speak to you guys next week.