Patriots Catch-22 6/15: Minicamp Observations and Position-by-Position Breakdown

This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre.

Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined as always by Power.

Barat Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.

Yeah.

I just want to see him punch an offensive lineman him. Now, that's all I want to see him doing. Have him line up across from the other guy and just come out of that seat because he, like you said, the way he comes out of that stance, just bull rush that other guy till he can't handle it, because that is going to be a long day for whoever is lining up off.

Yeah, who are you even talking about?

Keon White? It was metaphorically speaking.

Man, But you want to see him punch of guys.

I just wanted we saw you saw how big powerful he. I just want to seem over power lineman.

He's a big guy. We'll get to Minnie Camp and all of our takeaways. We're gonna as we do, We're gonna rattle off position by a position as fast as and as a fly as we can. So you know, Marine strap In, It's gonna be be a little while. But I have two takes off the top of the show, Alex barth Evan Lazar Patriots Catch twenty two with you, probably for the next hour and thirty. I would say, but like I just said, we're not usually very efficient when we go position by a position and run through

Unless they took him out for lunch. It's a little it's a little late for lunch. I forgot. I don't have a normal dining.

So this is this is no joke, no cap right now, Oh don't know. I had. You're thirty a dream, You're okay, but say, no joke. This is actually true. I had a dream, Alex that I was the reason why the Patriots did not sign DeAndre Hopkins, that it was my fault. So I've spent the entire day avoiding the football department side of things here at the office, like the place.

Wait, wait, what did you do?

I bumped into him and I and I fan boyd and then he got onto a podcast and he was like, yeah, there was like this really nerdy kid that like was all like fanboy and stuff like that, and it just rubbed me the wrong way. It was bad vibes, and I just I just liked the vibe in Tennessee better. And I was like, everyone's gonna know that's me. I do. So that's that's not unrealist, not unrealistic. So I've been keeping my distance. I don't want to I don't want

Bad that I think we're gonna get the same tweet today?

Not that that's what I want.

I'm very I think I've made it very clear how I feel about it.

But no, no, I think that that's very valid and very possible.

Because all right, so hang on, Diana Russini tweeted at six twenty three pm. That's like on what was that on Monday? Yeah, six twenty three pm. But remember Tennessee is an hour behind.

Yeah, I think they are. I think you're right.

I don't actually know if that matters or not, but uh so six twenty three. And then Jordan Schultz was the other one. He tweets a lot.

I'm gonna have to scroll here. Yeah right, No, he hed it to me, so I got this one, uh successful visit with the Titans. So his two he was also at six. So we're ways away. So maybe here it's five. If that, If that our time difference clock is horrible, but maybe that that's the case. Regardless, the overall point is is that no news means nothing at two o'clock in the afternoon. We got a couple of hours to go before we can really hope to hear something.

I would even say if we get no news today, yeah, that's very good. That's a very good sign. If we don't get the I and honestly so I think we're getting the around dinner time. Yeah, good visit. He's left the building. It was a good visit. But he's gonna continue explorers options might take more visits. Ian Rappaport said yesterday, but he doesn't want to sign till camp. There's really no incentive for him to do it. The Patriots have to give him the reason to sign before training camp.

They're negotiating. Then there there.

I wouldn't even say negotiating finalizing. If we get nothing today, they're they're waiting for me to get in the T box Saturday afternoon on my golf trip to announce it.

I just know it. I just know it. Or on Monday, which is technically a craft group holiday. Thank you mister mister Kraft for Juneteenth. So that's gonna happen. Too. But I here's my quick thing on d hop because I do want to spend most of the show on any camps.

But sorry, just just to re reiterate that point, just to close the point, no news is good news for the next like two or three days, and then it gets a little worry.

So here here's my over arching thing with d Hop. I I have been all in on this to begin with. I I see no reason at this point to to not just put the bag on the table and and and make this happen. I really don't. I I don't. I understand that there's always always the fear of the dark horse, the always the fear of the team coming out of nowhere and and swooping in at the last minute like that.

Which, by the way, I have my team for that which we can go to.

But there's always that fear. I don't read this situation quite the same because he's been available since March, right like he so all the teams that have had interest in him or whether it's trade interest or now interests as a free agent. He has been available for months. So this is not like a situation where like all of a sudden, DeAndre Hopkins is available and nobody saw this coming. Like, we've all known that DeAndre Hopkins can be had, whether it was via trade or now via

So I don't one of the Saints draft picks towards ac on the last play of OTA.

Yeah, I mean that's brutal. I don't see it. I think that Hopkins knows who his suitors are. His suitors have reached out. I think they've been in touched probably for months at this point, So I don't see it. We all want him here. The Patriots should want him here. I think the Patriots do want him here, otherwise he wouldn't be on this visit. Who's your dark horse?

So this isn't based on anything. I haven't heard anything. This is just objectively looking at things. I was going back through because when they said he might take more visits. Right, all right, we kind of heard the Texans might be a team. I know they said the Browns are out, but like, yeah, they could get back in maybe, who knows. I know some people talked about the Cowboys, the Bills, the Chiefs. Don't have the money. So I'm going back through it, like, all right, what teams did we not

That's a good point.

They have a ton of money. They don't really have that true number one. I mean, Kirk had a great year for them, Yeah, but he's not that kind of he's a slot receiver.

And they also got Calvin Ridley back, and.

They have the court. It's it's the same thing as the Patriots. You have the quarterback on the rookie deal capitalized.

Oh yeah, no, I still think it's a possibility.

But I've heard nothing about them.

Don't think it's obviously really good player when his when.

He's also doesn't play here.

I mean you don't know. Yeah, all right, so that that's where things stand with Hopkins. I didn't think of Jacksonville. That's a good one. I think that there. To me, it's just like you know the Rappaport thing about how we could wait the training camp to see if a true contender like a Kansas City or a Buffalo don't say it, you know Buffalo, Buffalo, Kansas City, you know, places like that could swoop in.

Can I give you one thought on Buffalo on it doesn't make sense.

But the main thing is with those teams, yes, they could figure out come August, Like Kansas City could panic and be like, oh god, like our number one receiver right now, not outside of Travis Kelsey Sky Moore, right like, and it's not good enough. But that doesn't create cap space, right like, that doesn't create wiggle room in terms of money. So yeah, that these contenders could recognize or somebody could

Us the reason, and not yeah, yeah, what's your Well. So here's an interesting one. Rapport was on the pat McAfee show.

This was yesterday.

No, he was on again like ten minutes ago. Oh, DeAndre Hot, So I have to listen to the whole thing. But I'm just reading the quote they tweeted out. DeAndre Hawkins is still on his New England visit, which is interesting. It makes sense to me for d Hot to wait. But if the Patriots come in with the right number and he's there, anything is possible. So maybe uh thing on the bills. And this is not even Evan, it's not a Bill's hater take for me, this is a

Yeah, that's fair, so especially for a thirty one year old DeAndre hops Right, we're both very high on but is not ranks.

Like you could see how that Rubs digs the wrong way. Now it's snowballing. And this is not me saying this, this was Josh Allen said this. They cannot be who they are offensively without Stefan Diggs. Yeah, he's the guy that makes it. So that's why I rule out the bills because if it is a financial thing with Diggs, it would be monumentally stupid of them to pay Hawkins. Unless Hawkins. If it's a thing where Hopkins is coming

Quickly on Diggs and then we're really gonna get into mini camp. Star wide receivers and we know this in New England because we experienced it with Randy Moss. Star wide receivers have a shelf life. They all do. Whether it's Randy Moss into the Patriots t o at all of his various stops. Like for the most part, those types of like diva wide receiver types eventually they outwear they're welcome as good as they are on the field, like Tyreek Hill in Kansas City, right, Like, eventually it

Well, but I was told by all the Bills fans all this regular season wins meant so much, so.

I said, not Buffalo winning, like when the afcast when the Patriots are rebuilding, and yeah, okay. Wide receivers like that. They they tend to get antsy, they tend to get disgruntled, they tend to get malcontent. Ye when they're not getting something that they want, it can't It might be money for digs. It can't be production like he's he's an all appropriate.

Yeah. I keep saying that, people saying like, oh, they need to get him the ball more? How much more?

Are you? Right? No, it can't be that. I think it has to come down. It comes down to whatever went down that week ahead of the Bengals playoff game, and then the Bengals playoff game itself. I think he felt like like they let go of the rope, right, like you know that, and to him, I think at this stage it's unacceptable to not be fully locked in. So I'm ready for Buffalo to fall apart. I'm good with that. But let's talk about the team here locally

Right?

Like, what's the problem solving going on? Prestap and the play that I keep going back to. I believe it was on a day one in mini camp. It might have been that Friday practice. Those two kind of blended together for me. They all blend together at this point. They they showed that all out pressure. Look, Mac made

No, because it's already.

Thanks that I know, but it's like it's so much easier, but.

It has such a different connotation calling Bill and Bill.

Bill and Bill can do all the smoke and mirrors. They can do all the scheming, they can do all the game planning, they can do all the disguising defensively, and motion and RPO and this and that offensively. At the end of the day, it's gonna be our best against your best, and is the Patriots best gonna be good enough? And I'm not talking about good enough against like the Commanders, right, We're talking about good enough against

Clip it, clip it. Evan says, Mike is sick. He's not going for fourteen hundred yard.

You we know at his best, he's a seven hundred yard guy, right, we know at at his best that Juju is probably what he was last year in Kansas City. He's he could.

Maybe it's just on volume. Juju could get to a thousand yards, Okay.

But we're capped, right, And I don't mean it in the other way. I mean like there's a ceiling to all of this there there.

Yeah, And by the way, what'd you say, a sickie's I think eight hundred seven hundred right in Miami, like seven.

Hundred eighty and twenty twenty one. Yeah, So that's a ceiling that that was his best.

Yea, that's a fair that's that's a fair one, right.

And so I just don't I don't know where the needle mover comes. And that's exactly how I felt going. So I think in a lot of ways, and if you want to spin it positively, Mini camp and OTA's confirmed all of my priors right like, in a good way. They're a competent offense, they're being well coached again, they're together, they have a plan that we can see coming together that will hopefully come together by the end of August.

Yeah, I agree with you. Well, I think a lot of that was coaching, and the idea is that they've rounded themselves out on the margins a little bit and they can be better in those situations. My big takeaway was kind of the same as yours, is the Bill O'Brien effect is real, and I don't know that he fixes everything. And I still have one major concern about the offense. We'll get into there's some other like minor ones,

Well, I can't imagine O'Brien's here to coach Bailey's appy, right, no offense to Bailey's appy.

But we aren't surprised. We were trying to tell everybody else, and it's so funny. People from other markets are like, why are you reporting there's no quarterback competition?

Of course there's not.

Come here and listen. And then there's the actual offense part of it and the things they're doing offensively, the motion, the concepts, the personnel groupings, the spacing, the rap combinations, all of it that just look right to look right. And it's not just a good offense. It's built on mac Jones's skill set. And I don't even think Bill's.

Just like, how much of a difference does that make is the real question.

I think a good amount, not the Super Bowl contender.

Amount, but back in the playoffs.

Let's yeah, let's put it this way. The offense they were running last year could not have been forget the whole thing with Patricia and he'd never coached office tour. Just schematically, what they were trying to do, the concepts they were trying to execute could not both pre and post snap could not have been less of a fit for mac Jones's skills set. They took all of mac Jones's weaknesses, yes, his weaknesses. They took all of mac Jones's weaknesses, and they put them front and center. What

To me, what they did the spring offensively, if you went and turned on Alabama's tape last year.

It's so I'm getting to that, literally the exact same thing. But it just so happens that all of the things Bill O'Brien emphasizes in an offense are Max Jones' strength. We've seen quarterbacks go from maybe like a neutral offense to an offensive system. They're great. And when's the last time you can think of a quarterback like a guy that actually, you know, was the starter from week one?

Yeaha yaha, YadA. Yeah.

When's the last time you think of a quarterback anywhere in the league that played in an offense that played to his weaknesses as much as the Patriots offense played to Mac jones weaknesses last year. I say that not expecting an answer.

Yeah. So it was interesting about it, though, is that they thought that they were playing to his strains like they they I think they genuinely thought that he could air it out like he was doing it.

He wasn't going to like that wasn't gonna happen.

That's not saying like I don't want I don't think that they purposely went.

In I okay, so yeah, let me. I don't think they went out there saying let's make Mac Jones look terrible. I think they misunderstood fundamentally why Mac Jones was as successful Alabama as he was. The airing it out is a perfect example. And people, I'm the one who pushes back on this when people say Mac Jones doesn't have a big arm, he can't throw down the field. He can in certain concepts, he's not. You said this a

I think it is the Alabama playbook. Yeah, bill O'Brien's alibi, not Sarkisian's full.

But no, but that remember the whole thing about when Bill O'Brien got there, When Sark took the job at Texas and Bill O'Brien got there, they had Mac Jones teach Bill O'Brien Sark's playbook because Nick Saban said it might have been more than not. Nick Saban didn't want to change the offense.

But no, I think that's that's so valid. But I think a lot of what we saw last year at Alabama was a ton of Bill O'Brien.

Okay, but but there are things now. There was nothing in the playbook last year that mac chos was running at Alabama.

Some of their vertical concepts might have been out.

There was very little in the playbook last year of what mak chose was running out.

Dinky RPO screens that they tried to do like twenty times.

Very little. Yeah, this year it is going to be can I say the heavy majority?

Yeah? I think so. I mean we'll see what the run game is like. You know, these are passing camps, so we haven't really seen I don't think we know enough yet to glean Is this going to be like you know the McDaniel SCARNECKI Gap Downhill power scheme run game or we go? And I think there's still too much minutia there once the pads come on to really decide. But passing wise, yeah, you saw a lot of that, and I think you know, obviously we've all talked about it a lot as the two tight ends, and I

Right, So all right, you want you want a little Hopkins UPTHINGH What do we got? H?

So this is someone reel or is this like?

No?

This is more McAfee show. So i'm not because we're on the air, I can't listen to the to the quote, but I'm reading the quote that was typed out here Pacman Jones, who is friends with Hawkins and he's dropped some nuggets before on the Pat McFee show. Today, I don't think Hawkins leaves there. I don't think he leaves without a deal. Okay, hang, you talk a little bit. I'm gonna listen to full quote. You talk a little bit, all right, I'll report pack.

Okay. So while I was doing that, I do want to segue. We're talking a lot about the offense and the scheme of the big picture. I think you guys got the general idea of this, as we like to call it on on this program, the alabamafication of the Patriots offense. I definitely think that that's in full force. I want to talk a little bit about the quarterback himself though, and Mac Joe and what we saw out there.

Just real quick on that. Yeah, And that's why Bill O'Brien was the right guy, because Bill O'Brien's offense, this is predicated on winning before the statmore after he.

Got that's huge. The second thing I he was he has made and continues to make some really really pretty touch throws down the field, right, like the crossing routes the scene phades like you talked about. You know, we posted one on our on our Twitter to Mike KASICKI, that was like one of the plays of the of the week. Offensively, he hit Hunter Henry on a crosser, just layered it right over Jalen Mills and right into the bread basket. Like those types of throws he can

And the problem is that, you know, if you want to jump ahead here I kind of said before, I still think there's one big question in this offense. If this offense is undone by something this year, it's not gonna be the quarterback. It's not gonna coach, it's not gonna be the wide receivers. Yeah, it's gonna be the tackles.

Yeah.

Not even like they're fine on the interior Cole Strange, David Andrews, Mike go and winning group is solid.

Yeah.

I really don't know what they're gonna do with tackle. I'm not sure they totally know yet. Yeah, And that's concerning because of exactly what you just said.

The best way to throw.

Mac Drones's office rhythm is to pressure him. Now they can offset that with some concepts too, right, quick passes, things like that, but at a certain.

Point, concerns about that, like you don't. So the comparison that I keep going back to is remember in Miami a couple of years ago to a they just had a terrible offensive line and they essentially had to be like a five yard pass offense. Yeah, they had Jalen Waddle in his rookie year catching like eight yard passes right, because they just couldn't block it right, and so everything

But it is that what O'Brien does, So.

I think so uh, And that's why I like I pushed back a little bit on some of the reporting out there about all the checkdowns that Mac was throwing. Like there's checkdowns and then there's like, you know, just running the progression right, and like O'Brien, you know, would you call like a juke rout? Did Julian Edelman over the middle of checkdown?

No? But people think it is right, right, So, and that's the other part of it. Like you, they're maximizing certain guys who I think are better Yack receivers. And this is alsoere Hopkins comes in as well. Again, can they put You're right, Ma's never going to be a gunslinger, but he's far enough along that they can pete put the pieces around and and make you work. Yeah, That's kind of where I'm at with it.

That.

Yeah, there there's always gonna be questions about pressure. There's no quarterback is perfect. There was one perfect quarterback that's ever played the game. He just retired a couple months ago.

That's it. But but I think that with him with Brady and not to keep him. You know, I hate doing this, but he was able to be pressure with his release right like he was. So this is my point. And if they can get Mack to that point, then I'm less concerned.

So this is my point. We used to do this all the time with Brady about him being his own best pass protector, right because he get on that back foot, you know, get snap back foot, boomed the balls out. Everybody members The clip from the twenty eighteen playoffs where Joey Bosa is like er Nick Bosa's Joey Bosa's I always get the mixed up. Joey Bosa is like Chargers, Right, Joey Bosa is like, can you stop throwing the ball so quick? I don't have time to get to you.

Because he just doesn't, right, because he just doesn't have the He needs to be a step ahead, right, And it's not only it's with anticipation too. Yeah, Like he needs to be he needs to be one of those guys that like when the Crossers coming over the middle, he hasn't cleared the linebacker yet, but he throws it on the other side of the linebacker for it throws him into the.

Past, which we think Mac Jones can do. Like, Yeah, everything about Mac Jones tells us. That's a step he should be able to make there. He wasn't asked to really do any of that last year. I know how that worked.

And this is sort of where, you know, I do want to talk about Bailey's appy for a second, not not because it's a competition, but just because he is on the football team. This is the one area that at times I see Bailey being a little bit ahead of mac On and it's more towards the sideline, I would say, in the middle of the field. But I think this is.

Well because Bailey's appy played in the West Coast in college.

True West, and I think that this rubs off of last year too, is is that there's still maybe a little bit of doubt or like lack of confidence in mac Jones at the moment that there's it's early, like they still got to work that out of him where he's still a little bit and see it throw it

Like?

What is he? What? Literally is he better at than Mac? I will give him that. I think that he throws the ball to the sideline better than Mac. I think he throws it with a little bit more anticipation and a little bit more zip. Other than that, I'm not sure that there's really anything. The physical tools are about the same. I think Mac's actually more accurate throwing down the field, like deep balls, like with air under it,

Yeah, yeah, i'd agree with you. But again I think the things you're talking about Mac throwing with anticipation, he can get there. This isn't a thing where like, oh he needs to be more athletic and that's just never gonna happen. This is and it's something Bill O'Brien I think.

Is the right coach to get him. I just want to see, one time, one time, just throw like a twelve yard incut with a little bit of anticipation and with a little bit of smoke on it, right, Like, just just fit it in there one time. And I think sometimes that that throw isn't necessarily there. Like he can distribute the ball underneath the defense, he can get it out. He can throw the touch deep balls, you know, the lob throws and things like that and drop it

Uh no, okay, and Rocket include Malie kuny cahme here because he is a wide receiver.

Yeah, Okay. Running Backs, this has been oddly something that I've got. I don't know about you, Ox, but I did the mail back today for us on Patriots dot Com. Some questions about the running backs, certainly after James Robbins. I think some of this is fantasy driven. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, Ramandra Stevenson's Ormandra Stevenson didn't see a ton of Remondre in the spring. I don't think they feel like they need to see him in the spring.

I think it's quite the workload last year.

I'm yeah, it doesn't doesn't really need to be a featured part of the spring, but it is interesting to see the other guys. Whether you want to call him a wide receiver, running back time Montgomery is once again having a great spring, had a great summer last year, great spring last year, doing it again. Whether or not he can stay healthy question mark, whether or not it's it's real. I don't necessarily have as many questions about that. I think time Montgomery could be a useful player for

Well, what's really interesting is there's times where Time Montgomery was one of two running backs on the field. Yeah, and DA can get cloudy as well, and I think that's something they want to do. We've talked a lot about Mike is SICKI right, Yeah, can they when they put him on the field, they can kind of disguise eleven personnel or twelve personnel and the other.

Team doesn't know.

There might be some of that with to Montgomery too. Yeah, are you they in eleven or are they in twenty one with him? And for that to work, though, you need Pierre Strong and or Kevin Harris to be able to be like a solid second running back beyond Rmandre Stevenson. I would say both of those guys were involved during the spring. And this is something I've talked about, the idea that they didn't play last year because the coaching staff is out on them and they're buried or whatever.

Not the case.

I think the coaching staff still really likes both of these guys. I think they're both going to get a shot to contribute this year in some way. Those four. That's a solid running back round.

Yeah, I'm not worrying about running back room at all.

I'd like to see him add and this is really niche like, add one more guy that you can stash on the practice squad and if somebody gets hurt, you can call him up and like he's been here, you're not getting him off the street. Maybe that's JJ Taylor.

Right, but maybe somebody that's more of like in the early down mold than JJ Taylor, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah, So you want to name, You're gonna roll your eyes. You know, Reggie Corbyn is the starting do you know who that is?

And yes, what Reggie? What do you mean?

Reggie Corbin starting running back for the Michigan Panthers in the USFL liked what I've seen from him and he's a good, well like solid, well rounded stash.

So you do feel like I guess the I think the biggest question with the running backs and with Pierre Strong. It is my quick take on on the two.

Do you hate Reggie Corbin's I don't know.

Just like I don't hear your World League or whatever, I don't have anything for it. Second year running back it takes one Pierre Strong. I don't know if Pierre Strong is yet to the point consistently enough that he's like a volume guy. I think he's a really fast, explosive player with the ball in his hands. That's worth giving him those three to five touches the game just to see if he breaks one, right, But I don't know if he's a true spell back yet. For Remandre,

Yeah, I think Pierre Strong is more of your like big hitter back and your if time Montgomery is going to have more of a wide receiver role of the guy that's stepping in there. I wouldn't hate seeing them add another big body back too. If if they how about Furnette, I thought he were tired. No, that was Jioe Bernard, Oh, another former Buck. I was gonna say, I was going to give you another buck running. Wait, what Fornette's not a buck? Oh Tampa day buck? Yeah,

You know? I love Zeke, I want Zeke. I don't mind Zeke. I just wonder Zeke got a little bit what's the word annoyed by Tony Pollard in Dallas.

Yeah, it's more one of those things.

Is he gonna be? Is he gonna be a sidecar?

My My counter would be as he gonna sit out the season?

Yeah? I love Zeke. I've always loved zee Ya. He's not the same player that he was early on in his career, but as a number two back, I mean you, he's probably be the best number two back in the league. It's just whether or not Zeke would be willing to be a number.

Two I think. I also think people underestimate his football maturity. Football like he's he's a great blocker. Yeah, that's the thing, like a guy like that in such a young running back room. Yeah, I think would be incredibly Right now, I'm not going out paying him a ton of money. I'm not like paying him over Hopkins. But yeah, if

Really.

I think Stevens is gonna be the number one, but I think all four guys will contribute to some extent this year.

Yeah, all right, before we get to the next position to get to wide receiver, this is going to be a hefty one. Let's take these calls and these guys have been waiting on hole for a long time. Sean and Vancouver, thanks for hanging on. What's up? Sean? Seans up? Going on? Sorry? Chuni, Yeah, we did give him a call, give us a callback. That's my fall. You guys have been waiting for a long time. Justin you there, what's up? Justin?

Hey guys, Hey just wanted to kind of continue with the conversation you guys are having. So when it comes to Zeke, I definitely agree that I think he has a lot to offer as like the second string running back. How much do you think that kind of like his legal issues in the past and like, like you said, his personal issues like as as a character like would affect kind of his perceived market value. Not saying he's been terrible or anything, but just like his locker room aspect, you know.

Yeah, yeah, no, that that's sort of where I'm at, justin his own things for the call, I'm not I don't really delve too much into the off field stuff like that's not I don't. I don't know enough about the situations and things like that to really speak on that. But in terms of like the football side of things, in the locker room side of things, my concern is not that Zeke is like you know, what's the old saying, like you know, malcoontent or turn in the punch bowl

You'd obviously have to make sure he buys in. I'm not just saying sign him out right, but again, it's that kind of thing where doesn't feel like he has a lot of options. Yeah, Dalvin Cook's gonna sign before him, right there's I know there's another running back on forgetting that's probably gonna sign before him.

Well, right now, it's really the top ones are Zeke, Dalvin Cook, and Fournette.

Fournette probably will sign before him. Does he want to sit out the year? That's kind of what it comes down to to me is if it's be the second running back in New England or not play football right, then maybe he becomes a little more amenable to it. Hey, come here, be the second back. We'll give you some opportunity to showcase. But you can do and you hit the market next year kind of you know, with your with your stock rates. Because he did not have a good year.

Last that would be I mean not that not that either one of them is necessarily still in their primes, but the Patriots acquiring to Zeke Elliott and DeAndre Hopkins in like June and July would would.

Be they'd be a wagon in like twenty seventeen.

Yeah, there you go. All right, let's talk wide receivers, A big position group, a lot of people to delve into here. We will talk about Malie Cunningham in a second, but I want to start with DeVonta Parker.

Sorry, Zeke's only twenty seven.

Yeah, it's just running backs, dude, Like they.

Just that's insane. I thought he was like twenty nine. Nins, No, that's insane.

He has so many carries.

I know he does, but I didn't just forget the carries, just like I remember watching him in college.

A ton of cares.

He feels like it was forever ago, I know, but.

He had a ton of carries at Ohio State. He had a ton of carries early on in Dallas. Yeah, he's been he's been written worn down. How he came to twenty sixteen?

How old was he when he came in the league, Like he's like twenty Yeah, okay, he was. He was a stud Yeah, I know he was. I mean what he did to that Alabama defense in the playoff game is legendary.

All right, wide receivers, I want to start with Devonte Parker. I never feel bad for professional football players. Making millions of dollars. But I feel for Devonte Parker a little bit with this DeAndre Hopkins thing because I still think DeVonta Parker is a solid NFL receiver and I still think that for what it's worth man to man on the outside press coverage, like he's the best receiver they have at just defeating press at the line and going up and getting a pass down the sideline. Like I

Right?

Like he's solid, But that's not really needle moving or difference making. But like I said, when he sees press coverage and he's got to go up and catch a fade, like, he's the best they got right now on the roster if we're not counting DeAndre Hopkins, who's not on the roster yet.

Yeah, no, he absolutely is their wide receiver corps as a whole. Like the top of the depth chart, right, you're gonna have Devanta Parker is your ex. Yeah, You're gonna have Jujus muth Schuster in the slot yep. And you're gonna have born at Thornton competing for raps however you want to qualify.

That at the ze.

Yeah, and then maybe Mike Kisiki factors in there too, and maybe Time Montgomery factors in the slot. Yeah, that's fine, it's good. But we kind of saw these last couple of weeks how fast that depth falls off because Taekwon. We know there's durability questions with him. Parker, there's durability questions with him. Juju's actually been on the field pretty consistently throughout his career, but you worry about a guy dealing with a knee injury like that.

Yeah, So.

I like, as crazy as this sounds, look upgrading over upgrading Hopkins to Parker definitely makes a difference. But outside of that, for me, it's like, who's the next guy. When it's all role in the first couple of weeks and then Dorton gets hurt or Parker gets hurt, who are you adding into that wide receiver rotation so things don't fall off? That to me is the big competition.

Yeah, so I think that that's a fair point. I also think that another fair point is from what we saw without Taekwon Thornton, this there's just no deep threat whatsoever. Like there's just no vertical element to this offense. The vertical element without him is DeVante Parker winning a fifty to fifty ball down the sideline or the tight end, stretching the seams right like those. That's like how they

Parker is in a contract year, he's a veteran, he's an established player. He's gonna want to play. Yeah, he's not gonna want to be here. Also, you know they're gonna want to open money. Back up, it's six point two million if they move on from Parker with no dead cap. Now, let's let's just clarify this. We're talking because people have said, like, you know, sign Hopkins today, cut Parker tomorrow.

No, no, no, let a playoff.

You keep them both until you have to choose, which is roster cuts because guys get hurt. You never know what happens.

And I also think that Devonte Parker not that he has like this immense trade value, but he's an affordable starting I wonder if that he's one of those trades at the end of training camp, that is, for a position the Patriots need to a wide receiver needed team, like maybe they get a tackle back, you know.

Or at the very least, could they get back what they gave up for him. I don't think that's unrealistic.

I would just I would more be inclined to trade him for a player. Yeah, but especially that to me. But yes, but we did this last year. Teams don't trade tackles. Teams don't trade there maybe not enough tackles, like you know, maybe somebody I hope nobody gets hurt, but like maybe they feel like they need another depth body someplace.

Yeah, yeah, it could be that. Maybe you know, if Florence guys hold out continues, maybe it's a defensive linement something like that. Yeah, you don't trade them until you have to. But I do think it is uh Parker, people people on Twitter want to know if we can go find Hopkins and get them on the show.

Absolutely not.

Oh yeah, because you had your dream.

Absolutely, you leave, you you leave.

We'll sit him down there, I'll talk to him.

I had my dream and I also value my job, so I am not going to be doing that anyways. Let's talk. I want to talk about Kendrick Bourne for a second. What were your just general impressions of Kendrick Boyn. I know a lot was made about the press conference and how he basically just railroad at the staff last year. I sort of snickered at it too. I got it was kind of funny, but regardless, I I don't really care like that's that's for other shows, Like I don't

Me say one thing on that and what he said about Hopkins and just that whole thing. Yeah, his mentality of I think he's really ride or die with his teammates. Like his teammates, right, A guy like that always brings the positive energy, Like even last year when it was clearly going rough for him, he was always smiling. All that. That guy can play for me any day. I'm gonna find a spot for that guy on my team.

So there's that school thought. Do you think that's how they think, because I don't know. I don't so him coming out and saying what he did about the coaching staff, and I think, what what the problem is with Kendrick Bourne that they probably have with him? And this is not source or anything like that. I'm just saying what reading the tea leaves he he doesn't think that he needs to like bow down to two superiors, right like he doesn't feel I don't think that there's I don't

I just think he's an emotional guy. He's a passionate guy, and I don't think they love that emotion boiling over sometimes. I don't think it's about superiors or it is so importunate.

They like guys, in my mind, that fall in line, right, like you take your marching orders and you fall.

I don't even think it's that. I think they like guys that put their head that like not too high, not too low.

Thing right.

If there's Kendrick Horn gets little high, gets a little low. He's just an emotional guy. I don't I don't think it's in any negative like, I don't think he means poorly. I don't think he's trying necessarily be disrupted. I just think he's an emotional guy. That's who he is. There's benefits in that too.

Yeah, but he plays.

I just think they want the guy that puts his head down and not him. Right, But what did you give a couple of those guys, what do you think he looked like? I thought he looked good. I thought he looked good.

Looks strong. He does look a little thicker.

He looks strong. I thought, you know, his movements were really crisp. I think, and I say this all the time, I think people really underrate I think people underrate him as a whole. But I think, really people really underrate his ability after the catch.

Yeah. No, I think this offense is really really fits him.

Very Yeah, I don't. You don't necessarily get to see a ton of after the catch stuff in these kind of practices, non contact, but watching him like cut in and out of routes and stuff like that, he runs away from guys.

He can run.

He's not like the fastest player, yet he's constantly running away from defenders because he makes it work with subtlety and things like that. I really like he's gonna be back in a role this year.

He's gonna won.

He's gonna be back on the field this year too. He's gonna be back in a role that fits him. Evan, you know this, My opinion on Kendrick Bourne hasn't changed by all the Kendrick Bourne stock Now. I I think his potential is immense. I think he can be a really really solid number two receiver, really solid complimentary guy. Wait, whoever the number one is, whether it's it's Parker, whether

I well, I think we're forgetting I just think we're forgetting Juju because he wasn't out there. That's fair.

But I'm saying this isn't even about Juju. It's about Kendrick Bourne should be in a spot where he is going to see one on one coverage more often than not. Kendrick Born as a guy who is going to make teams pay and one a significant amount of And that's.

Why I just my message to Kenrick Bourne has nothing to do. I don't actually care as about him speaking out in the media. I don't. I don't care. It's great for us and I but on a I don't care. I care because I don't want them to use that as a reason to kick him off this team.

No, no, yeah, right, so he can give them something fall in.

Line just for the sake so that you can be here because you're gonna help the football team win games, right right, Like That's where I'm coming at it. So and it's not like you don't have to shut your mouth, you don't have to be a mood like you don't have to you can talk, but like coming out and saying the things that he said, doesn't help him with the coaches.

It just doesn't help me, right, And and yeah, you hope that that there's some middle ground there. I would say, here's kind of how I feel about Kendrick Borne. I just thought of this is like the perfect greatest sum up how I feel about Hendrick Borne.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes we like a player and then we hear like, yeah, he's good, but you can go get that guy elsewhere, Like yeah, I'm trying to think of an example of a player like that, like like on on another team.

Right, yeah, no, I know, like.

I just had it and I lost it.

That's fine, I know.

But you know what I'm talking right right, Oh yeah, No, he's a good player, but like you can go get that same guy in frame, so you can find in the draft. I think Kendrick Bourne is like one step above. Yeah, you can go find that guy. I'm not sure that you're easily replacing Kendrick Bourne. That's not to say that he's an elite player or anything like that, but there's not sometimes say oh, yeah, there's that guy on thirty two teams, right, that guy. Yeah he's a good player,

I don't think there are, so that that's that's a good way of putting it.

Like Jimmy Garoppolo, Yeah, you can go find Jimmy Garoppolo. Right, you're not.

Gonna Patriots might have found Jimmy garoppol.

They have a lot of teams, might have the Viking, or there's there's this really good TikTok about like it's like the NFL is just okay, I'm not really either of people send this to me all at the time. It's like the narrator is like the NFL is a bunch of Kirk Cousins, and then it starts scrolling through pictures of quarterbacks. It's like Kirk Cousins and like old Kirk Cousins, and it's Matt Ryan, young Kirk Cousins, and

Okay, So that we covered kind of the veteran guys on the team and one that isn't that we continue to talk about because of obvious reasons. But I think the next question is, so they're gonna have the four veteran guys, whether it's Hopkins replacing one of the veteran guys that already exists, or just the four guys that they currently have in house. They're gonna have four veteran guys, and I'm including Taekwon in the veteran category.

Yeah, even though he's the second year guy NFL experience like significant NFL.

Yeah. The fifth receiver spot is I think gonna be up for grabs regardless of Hopkins comes here or not. Yes, So the question that boils down is is it tomorrow? Douglas. I don't think we can really say anything about Kishon Booty because he literally wasn't out there, Uh Malie Cuttingham, Trey Nixon or Emily who I thought kind of had a moment or two out there. Not gonna not like down the field, but a little jitterbug.

I'm not saying like put ed Lee on the team right away, but put him on the practice squad. Maybe we revisit next year.

Yeah, I agree, he's kind of like the new Trade Nixon.

Yeah, that's he's gonna take Trey Nixon the.

Out of that group, who do you think emerges as the most likely fifth receiver? You have to Mario Douglas. You have Malik Cuttingham, you have Booty, you have ed Lee so and like Trey Nixon still exists.

Yeah, and Trade Nixon.

So, I.

It's not Douglas because he's a gadget player. He's gonna be on the team, but he's gonna be his own sort of thing. He doesn't fit into this equation. Okay, if Kaishawn Booty is healthy, he's far and away the best receiver you just named. Yeah, but that's if he is healthy. That's the get's a capital, right. I think

So I think I think Trace McSorley will be here on the practice squad.

I'd like to find them, to find somebody better is I don't think Garrett Gilbert.

I think Trace mcsorry will be on the practice squad. I think that they have seen some value in Trace McSorley behind the scenes, like a Matt Brian Hoyer.

Yeah, he's like twenty six and Garret Gilbert is a free agent. Anyway, he takes up one of those spots. So back to the point in him Kayshawn Booty is healthy. I think it's Kashawn Booty, if not probably Trey Nixon. But ed Lee certainly makes a run at it. And if it gets down to no love for Pop Douglas, I think he's so. I think he's gonna play more than both of them.

But but he's still he's still got a factor into a position group.

So I had him. No, he's going to be white. So this this guy's going on the practice squad, this guy we're talking about, I don't think this guy makes the roster. Got it to Mario Douglas makes the roster? Okay, So that's where we met.

Where we're to. Mario Douglas is your guy that makes it to Mario Douglas is the guy that makes it.

No, but the fifth receiver Tomorow Douglas makes the roster as Marcus Jones backup on offense. Okay, the fifth receiver is going to be somebody that is on the practice squad that gets elevated. So in that right there, I think gonna have four active receivers plus Douglas to start the season. Because so you're saying, if somebody goes down, who's the fourth receiver, it's Mike at Seck. Youre time Montomery, okay, right, and that this is the guy that when the depth

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

And Malie Cunningham will hang around on the practice squad as a project player, but I don't think he sees NFL snaps this year.

The best thing that Malie cunning him did the entire spring was run quarterback in nine and seven, like.

He made one nice catch. I made one nice catch, no respect is one nice catch.

He made one nice catch. I'm not taking it seriously. I've never taken it serious.

But he did make one nice catch.

Take it seriously, and people that are putting him on like their roster projections are are I he made one nice catch.

How he respects his one nice catch. I don't disagree with anything you said, but respect us one nice.

I respect his one nice catch for you. But what I really respected was watching nine on seven with him playing quarterback and uh them running Reid option with him at quarterback and Marty Mapu just like doing his thing linebacker. That that moved the needle for me.

We know that his real value this year is a scout team quarterback. What happens down the road happens down the road.

All right, tight ends, I know, Gasicki's call him a tight end, call him a wide receiver. Some people get hot and bothered when you call him the tight end because he's a big receiver.

We literally just got in the YouTube comments in all caps Johnny and then Lumpkin.

So Hunter Henry h looks like Hunter Henry looks fine. I'm not gonna like spend too much time on guys like that. I was really really impressed, excited, optimistic about Mike Kasicki. I think that he brings a different level of two things. One explosiveness at that spot for sure.

Uh.

He's a very natural player. He's fluid. He's a little bit quicker than I thought he would be too, not necessarily like jitterbug underneath quickness, but that ability to like you know, threaten leverage and then and then cut out of a break up the field a little bit. I did a nice job of that. A couple of times. I really think that you you mentioned the seven hundred and eighty yards earlier in the show. I think was his career high in Miami. I think that's in play.

Person twelve personnel.

Yeah, because I guess, But I you know me, I would love to get the speed on the field.

I know, but I think that's gonna be it. No. I was impressed by Gasiki too. You kind of put it better there. But it's that thing I talked about it with Bourn where we're not really watching these guys in yards after the catch situations, but you're seeing them do things that translate. And I didn't realize Kasiki, like you said, the agility right, the quickness, it doesn't come across as much on tape as a dozen person I didn't realize quite how quick it is close athletes. Yeah, yeah,

Yeah, he's gonna be a good player for him. Lumpkin, Johnny Lumpkin. The way I had sum up Johnny Lumpkin in the spring is that I wasn't expecting anything from Johnny Lumpkin in the spring. But when he wears sixty five and white, you think he's attack.

He's a tackle.

You think he's a tackle. He's a big freakin' dude. And we'll see when the pads come on what that looks like. Anthony Firksker made some tough catches. Maybe a little bit, Yeah, he can a little bit. I think two can play in the slot. I'm sure he can play a little bit out of the backfield. They're not quite into that yet, with the run game and things like that. I at the moment would be more inclined to think that Ferksker mikes the roster as a tight

Yeah, I'm kind of in that same spot kind of like we talked about with the receivers, I think they keep the two tight ends.

That's it.

They'll have Ferkser, Lumpkin, Scotti, Washington who they like. I think Bill really likes, Bill spoke highly of and honestly Matt Sokol like. So that's what four options you have, and they'll promote those guys as needed throughout the season. Those guys will be practice squad call ups, so they'll

I don't know what to make of Washington because I just he he and I I want to say this for what my I'm writing tomorrow, but I'm gonna say it here too. He makes these above the rim catches that like remind me of like Rob Williams catching an alley, you like, where his catch radius is like literally insane.

Do you know who he reminds me of? Do you remember Tim Wright?

Yeah?

I remember him, right, But I feel like that Scottie Washington has like even more of a vertical element tim Wright does. He's a bas he's playing basketball. He's literally catching a lot.

Well remember the play he made last year. Yeah, it's it's but.

But he's not I don't know if he's good enough at anything else to make an NFL roster Like that's cool in all, and he's gonna have these like highlight reel plays in practice. You know, Devin mccorty said he made him on scout team last year, But is that an NFL rosterable player.

Well, if let's say you keep on the practice squad, yeah right, you're having some trouble in the red zone early in the year, Yeah, it's possible. Yeah, elevate him. So that that's my point, Like, I think him he's kind of a hybrid tight end receiver. Yeah, Ferks, there's a hybrid tight end fullback for Lumpkin's a hybrid tight end lineman, right, and Matt Solkole's basically just back up. Right, He's basically just a backup Hunter hands. I think it's fair.

If it gets to the point where somebody really is playing well, there's always injuries, there's always something that opens a roster spot and you sign it.

So I I think that's what that third tight end spot is gonna look like it's gonna be on the practice squad. I think I honestly wouldn't be surprised if all four of those guys different games. But if all four of those guys are active for at least one game at some point.

Yeah, I mean Scottie Washington is just a He's an interesting player. I don't know what he is. I don't know if, like I said, I don't know if he's Is he well rounded enough to really make an NFL roster yet? I probably not. But some of those catches that he makes above the rim are ridiculous.

So let me ask you this. They don't who's their backup X behind Parker, right, taking Hopkins out of the question.

Right now, Yeah, get sicky. I guess, like, could it be Washington? I guess yeah. I mean, like he's a quality They don't have a ton of depth there. Yeah, he might be, and I'm not necessarily I guess they would probably naturally use Taekwon. They're like if if you're talking about like true wide receiver eleven persons.

But I'm saying, like, so you're thinking because Bill said that Washington's kind of a hybrid. Yeah, when you look at him in the context, in that context and their lack of big, true outside wide receivers, Yeah, there might be some snaps for him there too.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying that that's like a great thing, but that's just the way the rosters. As I said before, the depth falls off quick. I like what they have at the top the depth chart, but it falls off quick. That could be a spot where Scotty Washington factors in.

All right, let's talk about the lineman, offensive and defensive line, and the reason why I put them together is because without pads, I am not going to evaluate we twelve minutes, we can we can go a little bit.

I was ready for you to say we're gonna do defense next week.

No, we can do this a little bit quicker and a little bit go a little long here, offensive and defensive line kind of you know, we're talking more about like who's playing where than anything in this time of year than really getting into evaluation. My one take on the offensive line that you know, we've taught, everybody's written about it, We've talked a lot about it. Guys. You know, right now Calvin Anderson's getting the reps at left tackle

Okay, that's right, that's a fair way to put it. I'm with you on that. First of all. Yeah, I just even if Trent Brown is one tackle and he can play either side, and that's the value in this because if between Calvin Anderson, Riley Reef and Conraich Dermott, Calvin Anderson is the best player, you can still put your best five out there. But if Trent Brown is one guy, which he generally doesn't play a full season you still need, you're still going with.

Two.

I don't want to say journeyman tackles because they're young, but like two guys who've been spot starters. Yeah, and a guy entering his age thirty five season in Riley Reeve, and I don't feel great about that. I'm almost at the point where not almost I am. I kinda want to see them sign DJ Flucker Evan. I do not necessarily because not necessarily because I think he's definitely the answer or anything. I really don't think he is. But yeah, if you're gonna take a bunch of fifty to fifty shots.

Me too.

He's certainly good out.

I hate that, like I've been really reluctant on that right but I think it's it's.

It's clearly your best five if he's at right tackle. Mafy, I know he can't really gauge offensive lineman thus far. The one thing I'll say from Mafi at six two three thirty, he moves really well. He gets around. They were doing some things with like screens and stuff where he had a poll and he's getting on front. Yeah, and his footwork solid. All of that that doesn't change a ton when you introduce contact, So it's it feels worth a shot.

Yeah, I agree. It just goes back to something that that Scar would always talk about too, is just your best five might not always be what you thought it was. Like you know, like it's like, all right, you know, what's our best five? It might be on WHENU at tackle and Mafi at guard, right or.

That's what That's what I think. I really think it might be right.

And it kind of goes back to twenty one when On when he went to the bench and Ted Carris came in and everybody was like, what the hell right? It was just but it just worked. It worked. The continuity was there. You know, they were playing on a string. They were playing well. And even though Ted Carris wasn't necessarily a more talented or better lineman than Mike On, WHENU, the five man unit worked together right. And I feel like maybe that that could be the case with kicking

Just one quick observation, Well, I want to get into the defense, but yeah, I can do defensive line real quick. One thought, Christian Barmore looks really good. He looks healthy. I don't think he was healthy when he came back last year after a strong start to the season.

Yeah. I like that he's been here too. Yeah, he's been here all off season.

If he's healthy, that's a great sign.

Yeah sign. Yeah, he's been here all off season, which is good. A couple of things for me on the defensive line, why I mean I count Keon Wise's defensive line man. He's playing up on the edge a little bit too. He I wasn't like too high on that draft pick, as you were. I'm still not totally sold. But he's he's winning me over. He's winning me over slowly. I think the one thing that I that he has a little bit more first step juice than maybe I gave him credit for. I like his flexibility to stand

Here's my theory and there's no inside reporting nothing.

This is just a guess.

He's thirty three years old, yeah, down here last year. I wonder if he's thinking about retiring. And this is simply just well, you know, if you want me to come back, you know you gotta Before he walks away, He'm just gonna see ifn get a little more money. Basically, that's it, and he has all the right in the world to do.

That's to knock, but like I'm not knocking him or like crapping on him for trying to know.

Football wise, he has very little leverage. He's thirty three years old. Yeah, he had a down year last year.

He was a he's a gap plugging two gap.

The Patriots have other guys that can do what he does. They just drafted one. I think on White could certainly handle some of those responsibilities.

So you know why has it's gotten better against the run? Right? They open up far more splashy than he is.

They open up two point seven million dollars against the cap if they move on from him. Yeah, so item off my ross projection. What I think his leverages is he went to them and said, look, I'm thinking about retiring. If you can convince me financially to stay around, I'm happy to play another year. But if not, I think I'm done. And players do that from time to time.

Right, But if it's a million bucks, then like whatever. But if I'm the Patriots I'm not kidding Laurence.

I don't think he's sitting there saying, damn it, I deserve to be paid more than I'm getting. Like, I don't think it's that. I think it's like, I'm not going back for what they're paying me. Yeah.

My fear is is that he thinks that he looks at Davon Godshaw and is like, why am I not getting paid like Davon?

That's not like just personally, that doesn't seem to be like the kind of guy he is.

I don't know that's it, like the person his last off season, last training camp that he was a little bit disgruntled about something. And I don't know, I think that Lawrence guy, I'm not. Look, he's a twenty ten decade team Patriot player.

Oh, he's a great player, and he was here, great player, incredible in the community.

Really not trying to like crap all over him. Yeah, I just for the role that he plays, and for his age and for his effectiveness last year. I just don't see what he's done to deserve a raise. And that's that's no.

I'm with you, and I it even if he did, it doesn't make a ton of sense. Football wise to do it, because, like I said, they have other guys that can do that. I think it's just, yeah, there's not outside of him leaving, outside of him saying I'm going to retire. Yeah, there's really no leverage for him all.

Right, linebackers, h Jawan Bentley looks like Jawan Bentley another guy. We're just gonna kind of chalk up to that. Before I get into.

This, I was gonna say, there's really only one lineback we need to talk.

Before we get into my guy. Mac Wilson is playing again. Yes, yes, Okay, that's a point. So Mapoo and we're gonna get into him in a second, and I'm gonna gush for twenty minutes.

And then I'll do another twenty Sorry.

Mac Wilson is uh, he was really the one repping most of the time next to Juwan Bentley, like Mapu is. Still I think they're still trying to figure out if he's a safety, if he's a linebacker.

Where they bet think, Well, there were time all three of them were on the field. There a couple of.

Yeah, but I think that for the most part, Mac Wilson's back in the rotation or at least getting the chance to be back in the rotation. Also, Je Devai, who I think is a important player to an extent. And I'll tell you why. You're right.

No, you're not wrong.

They behind Judah and Nuja unless you count Keon White as an edge. I know you hate that outside linebacker July Devi is the only other guy that can play on the line of scrimmage really out of that group.

Andthrey Jennings, well, I'm saying they have seen I have seen absolutely nothing out of and so I wanted to ask you that I don't even know if either one of those guys practiced for the well the last two weeks, because this is the big question to me. Perkins R. I didn't notice them at all. Jennings I noticed because he got in two fights.

Good good, So that's what we want.

But the thing is he is one of the few guys that can play the true edge like that. He did play a key role last year when I was doing my my Row projection. I was putting it together last night, and this is how I have it right now. There is still so much time for this to change. The last decision I made came down to mac Wilson, Anthony Jennings. I went with Jennings because, again, he was a starter last year. Mack Wilson didn't play defense for the final five weeks of the year. I kind of

I think it almost has to be mac Wilson just because of a ray Qua McMillan's injury. Like, you're gonna go into this season with the only guys with NFL experience as true inside linebackers being Bentley and I guess Tavia, who's kind of like a cross hybrid between outside and inside. There's just not a lot of depth there. If you don't have mac Wilson.

How often are they gonna play linebackers?

I think so?

In fair your point, I in my it's up ninety five the Sports of dot Com. I brought up your point basically by saying they're gonna play six defensive acts a ton in maybe seven, so I don't remember. In twenty twenty, they just didn't play linebackers. Juwan Bentley, I think play it had like a sixty percent usage rate that year and nobody else over twenty Averredy Jennings. Actually people forget him. They talk about how he didn't do anything until his third year. He was their second most

Mapoo is his own thing. Yeah he is. I It's been a minute since I've been so excited about a Patriots rookie in the spring. I think the biggest thing with Mapoo is not he plays fast. He plays sideline the sideline, He's got the range of explosedness. But the biggest thing to me is his anticipation and his instincts. Ability to just read things out and click and close and really see it and go get the football quickly.

Liked compare him to Jamie Collins and Dante hie Town.

I just well, yeah, that's a little bit much. But I just don't know where if they've had that player before. So Mapu is my biggest star of the offseason program. Uh. He looks to me like the missing piece in a lot of ways to this defense because he gives them speed and range at the second level of the field

He allows everybody else to more focus on their roles in that game plan. The discussion, debate, argument, whatever you want to call it. We had like three four weeks ago about what Marte mop who was going to be and you had all these lofty ideals and ideas and I basically said, yeah, it'd be great, but they won't do it. Yeah, yeah, you won you one. You're right, they're doing it.

There you go. He admitted. I was right.

You're right.

You were right.

I didn't think they will I was wrong. I was wrong more than you were right. You just said you said you wanted them to do it. I said, that's great, but they won't turn that.

They did. Yeah, So they they did some. I mentioned it earlier when we were briefly talking about Maie cutting him. They did some nine on seven in this camp where they were they were practicing against read option and McSorley was running it a little bit too, as the quarterback

Well, So I fought it for so long because they've they've said for years pretty much as long as we've been covering the team that you know, we're not corners, we're not safeties, we're defensive backs. And I've struggled as much as possible to from covering the team point of view to kind of split them we can't.

We can't this year. We can't. They're they're defensive backs.

Because to get to your point about the safeties, especially with the communication, who's their longest tenured defensive back, it's Jonathan Jones. Yeah, he might be the answer there. And we saw them get into this sum later in the spring.

Yeah, I still want them in the I know you do.

But there's there's a chain reaction here. Christian is also is gonna be one boundary corner.

That's a thing. Yeah. If Jack Jones, yeah, he's my other big, big star.

So if and he was good, If Jack Jones can hold it down on the other side, and by the way, they're a little thin at boundary corner, i'd like maybe it's Jalen Mills.

I think the guy, the fourth guy.

Okay, but if if so, your Christians was on one side, if Jack Jones can be the guy on the other that allows you to play Jonathan Jones is the deep safety who can use his experience as football IQ. But just listen to me for a second. Just listen to there. You kind of glossed over all the weird stuff they're doing with like and weird in a good way. Different guys lining up in different spots and all these exotic rotations. They didn't do an install.

They picked up.

Where they left off last year. They were on like step six when everybody else on step one. To do all that, everybody has to be on the same page. Nobody's gonna be better than that at that than Jonathan Jones. If Jack Jones can be your second boundary corner, Jonathan Jones can play on the back end, Marcus Jones in the slot that allows you to use Kyle Duggar, Adrian Phillips, and Marte mop who as basically jokers, not that's a good Jokers natural football term like the Joker card and depth.

It's a good group. I just I'm not quite as high on the disguising part of it as everybody else is, because my at the end of the day, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahoomer, this is just let me finish. These guys are immune to it. But remembering what will happen is no, no, what will happen is is they'll spin the freaking dial.

So two things right, One? Three things nice swear you did two?

Sorry, Matt.

That's why Marte mop who's here, right? We just talked about that.

I don't think there is the best quarterback you. I don't think the disguising works. I don't against Mahomes maybe not. Do you remember that when we did the shows before the Bills game last year, you were talking about spin the dial and it didn't work.

No, you came on the next week and said it worked.

It didn't work.

You came on the next week and said it work. When you said that they had him confused, they did. They had him second guessing a little bit. Maybe they forced him in that second game. The second game is the special teams touchdowns. That first game they held him the twenty four points. And you're gonna sit here and tell me because they ran the clock in the second half because they could because the offense didn't do anything. The offense needs to be better for them to beat

I guess, to me, what I'm more excited about, and I don't disagree, But what about all the versatility and the spin the I don't disagree. I just think what I'm more excited about is that the overall talent level of the group is improving, and it starts with Christian Gonzales obviously, who's out there as the number one corner at this point in time, I think Gonzal, Look, the guy's a ballerina on a football. Yeah, he moves like

I mean, look, you still San Francisco, you still a Philly. I would say this really good shot the best defense in the AFC. It's them, the Steelers and the Jets. That's that's pretty much it for me.

I think I think they have a better front than the Jets. I think the Jets still does. Jets have a great scheme. Yeah, they have a great system, and Sauce is probably the best corner out of anybody in this group. But I think that they they might have a better front than.

They definitely have the complete because it's funny you say that about the Jets. The Steelers have the better front, right the secondary they have MAKA obviously, but the corners aren't. You combine the two of them, the Patriots are the most well rounded. I think those are.

The Patriots have depth and talented all three levels of this defense. And it's just and this isn't like a Homer take either. I've seen people nationally, like you know, Mina Kimes is really high on the Patriots defense right now. I've seen other people talk about this Patriots defense. They have real, really good players at all.

So I think the one thing is again, So I think those are the three best defenses. These Steelers have TJ. Watt eng and if it's Patrick, the Jets have Sauce and Quinn Williams. Yeah, the Patriots finished sentenced. The Patriots have Matthew Judin and potential options here.

I think I hear your point that maybe they're a little bit more unproven in that. No.

No, my point is like, is there might actually so.

They have even more depth than those teams.

Do they have they have more depth? No? The thing is, do they have that second true star on defense, the guy that's gonna be the all Pro conversation with Matthew jude On?

So there, Kyle Duger, I don't know if he's all Pro conversations. That's safety spots so deep across the league.

Okay, here, all right, let me rephrase that, Uh t J. Watt top five a disposition? Yeah right, make if it's Patrick top five disposition, uh Sauce Gardener top five disposition, Quinn Williams top five disposition, Matthew Judon's top five disposition. Is there another guy along with Judaan on this defense that at the end of the year we will say was top five in his position? There's a couple of

Yeah, that's such a deep spot. I know.

But and here's where maybe I'm getting a little ahead of myself. But I don't care. Are you gonna say Chritian Zalees, I'm gonna say Chritian Salez No, not yet, not yet?

So good. He's he's he looks, he looks the part.

But is there anybody else that you think maybe he gets into the conversation.

Not yet.

Sauce has only played one year. We're putting him there.

Yeah, but he Yeah, that's fair.

I'm not saying is right now. I'm saying at the end of the year, when we go back and look at let's talk. Could Christian Gonzalez have a yer like sauceted last year?

Maybe not the on ball production because.

I don't because he's a different kind of impact.

Yeah, maybe, you know. I always then there you go. The comp that I always go back to with Gonzales is certain.

Can Is there a chance at the end of the year, we're talking about Matthew Judon and Christian Zalez. Like we talked about t J. Watt and Mike Fitzpatrick, it's possible that's and then there you go. Then that's my point, Like, that's that's the one thing they're missing stacked up to those other two defenses, is that second, you know, checkmate player. But I think they have guys that have the potential to be that guy. So been yet, but we'll see.

So maybe the checkmate player, maybe he's a situational checkmate player. But I think J has a chance to be made.

So that's it. Because that's two pass rushers.

Yeah, because I mean eleven half sacks last year is eleven and half.

That's and they were all on the second half of the season.

That's fair. I'll give you that. All right, let's take this one last phone call and then we'll get to your your specialist. You're five minutes on the specialist. All right, all right, William, you gotta go quickly. We're we're really running long here. What's up, no problem?

What's going on?

How you doing?

Okay?

How you doing?

Hey?

Hey? Okay, real fast.

Have you ever heard anything about the Pages were interested in trading for Chase Chase Young?

Uh No, there's your second player. I don't think it's gonna happen.

Uh, neither. Do you want the trade for Chase Young?

No?

I just.

Man, what a second round pick?

That's that's okay? All right, Zal you got yeah, that's all.

Thanks for colling in, man, I appreciate it if they got Chase Young of the best defense in football. I don't know how they're doing it.

They're not trading for Chase hands down. No, I don't think so. All right, the floor is yours alty, all right? Your takeaways about the specialists, Uh, the rookie specialist versus Nick Folk and cordless weightman? H during cordless? I said cordless weight man.

They said cordless. He is cordless.

He's a cordless phone. Now, Uh what what were your take I have some takes on this, but I want you know you're resident special team.

All right, Well we'll do the kickers first. I think it's Ryland. I thought it was Ryland going in, but not going in. I was like, all right, he's a fourth round pick. Nick Folks thirty eight. He fell off the end of last year. That's also true, obviously. The other really interesting development when they were doing the kickoff drills, which they did a good amount of. It was pretty much just the kickers handling kickoffs, Ryland and Folk, and

Kickofs, squatting your max or something.

Right, So if the planet and I don't get why the punters aren't involved in kickoss, maybe they will be further down the road. But if the plan is to have whoever is the kicker handle kickoffs, it has to be Ryland. It has to be Ryland at that point. So Bill was asked about keeping three kickers. Didn't shoot it down. They didn't do it at times last year. Two kickers three Yeah, especially maybe Nick Folk goes to the practice squad gets elevated for field goals, but you

And yeah, I'm not ready to like completely give the job to Ryland, but I'm ninety percent of the way there. I think that there's it's very very very clear based off of the spring that his leg is just it's it's a step ahead at Nick Folks. It's younger obviously, so that makes sense, you know, he's a younger player that he's got a little bit more power at this stage.

And he doesn't really sacrifice anything in terms vacuracy.

So they had them doing a lot of kicks on the skinny goal post. Yeah, and he didn't make every single one of them, but it felt like every single one would have went through the regular goal posts probably

Yeah, punter Corlis Weightman looked good. Yeah, he looked a lot better than I expect me. He he led the league in punts last year with the Broncos, but most of his metrics, I twenties touchbacks that average, things like that were bottom third of the league.

Yeah.

I didn't see him, and it's really hard like to spin on the ball to pick up on TV. Kind of have to see in person. Didn't see him last year, but I did not expect, given what his kicks looked like last year, to have the rotation they did. Bryce Bearinger was limited. It sounded like he was dealing with some sort of medical thing. Yeah, we'll see what happens there. He's also a six round pick. He's maybe a guy

So what were your hang times on both of them? You don't have to rattle off all of them.

I still need to average them out because.

It felt to me and I wasn't clocking them quite as closely as you were. But I thought that that Baringer had a little bit more height on the ball sometimes.

Baringer probably Bearinger probably had the higher average, but Weightment was a lot more consistent. Baringer had one period where I think like three of his five punts were all five seconds, but the other two were under four, whereas Weightman was pretty steadily like in that four to two to four to four range, which isn't incredible. But again I remind everybody of this, This is why they run the forty yard dash, to see if you can get

At the combine.

So yeah, if your kick them balld like four three four four, it could be a little better. But you're in okay shape.

All right, Well, I'm surprised. I'm surprised you're you're You're on Weightman a little bit. Obviously, I'm watching it in time. It is quite there's there's still time there. There's still time for things to change, still time for things to change. But and I just read as I said for it, it was like four four four five like that range, not four two.

Yeah that I was I was thinking of like the slower because again Baringer was like five two or four two five to or four two. Weightman was like four five four six four five four six, So like he didn't he didn't have that many five second punts. But I okay, so it's not that big of a deal to me.

Right now, just to chalk it up, Yeah, it's basically Weightman more consistent Bearinger. Maybe a little bit of a higher ceiling, right, just you know, a little bit bigger. Yeah, yeah, that's not what's pretty much.

And the one other special teams note I'd add, Yeah, if we're doing the the who's the UDFA that extends it.

I think Jordan heat Like has a chance to make Yeah, they like him.

He got one on one reps with Slater. I like that he's a true special teamer. He only played forty snaps at linebacker in college. That there's obviously a learning curve for any player. But I think that probably lessens it a little bit because like a guy like DeMarcus Mitchell last year obviously proved to be a good special teamer, but he was a full time defensive end in college. He didn't have the special team's experience that a guy like Jordan Helig does. It's kind of a rare player.

I think makes it still. Ye, Slater obviously makes it still. Cody Davis has been limited, you know, he had that bad injury.

So I had Cody Davis off because him and Heli probably play similar positions too, So maybe.

It could be Cody Davis that that missus out. I have DeMarcus Mitchell off right now too. I just think that they're too crowded there and if they like Helig, then it probably pushes him off even more. All Right, So that was a cool two hours of Minnie Camp recap. I love it. Thanks to Marine in the booth for not fallowing us sleep on us over there, and we're

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