This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bar Lazarre.
Hello, everybody nailed it. Joined us always by our bar.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barr. Delay the hurt, delay the hurt.
But you can delay the hurt, delay the hurt, delay the hurt. We did delay the hurt last week. That was Alex. That was probably the happiest that I've been after a Patriots draft in a long time.
Same.
Obviously, I really liked the twenty one draft too, because you get the new quarterback. We all, I think, really liked Christian Barmore in that pick. But in terms of just I don't even know if it was happiness. It was more, honestly, of quite frankly, relief that they got a player in the first round that we all could get behind. Right, it was a consent player as a player we had talked about at nauseum in the in
the pre draft process. And I sent you that thing from Holmes the Lions GM, Brad Holmes, right, Brian Holmes, Brad Holmes, and he mentioned just the the whole mock draft culture, right, and how we are pre determined to have an opinion on these picks where when the organization doesn't make the pick that we predicted or expected them to make, we are already going to be negative about it. Right, Our brain just automatically switches on to negativity because that
wasn't we didn't have him in a mock draft. We didn't have him on our big board, you know what I mean?
Right?
And I think there's totally something to that, one hundred percent. And I think I find myself doing that on draft weekend too, And that's why I like doing the show. A couple of days afterwards here on a Thursday, a couple of weeks later, it's Evan Lazar Alex Barth twenty two. I always do that. I always just go like right into it. And at this point, and don't you know, tell people who we are, what the show's called, and we're gonna be with you here for the next hour
and fifteen hour and thirty. We're gonna try to be efficient. After I go on this rant right here at the top, We're gonna try to be efficient and go pick by pick here in a little bit. But the main thing is is that I always get to a point and maybe it's cope babe, it's me talking myself into into the draft, to my my Homer inside me on the Patriots side of things. But I always get to the point where, whether or not I love every pick, I'm like,
okay with the draft, right, I'm okay with it. Last year took a little bit longer than than most years, but you know, this year, I feel like I'm at that point where let's turn the page. Let's get these guys out into OTAs in mini camp and then training camp in July, and let's see what they're all made of. I don't think that any of it I can be totally up in arms about. I think there's some nitpicks across the board, more about what they didn't do, I think,
than what they did do. You know, positions they didn't address and things like that. But overall, I feel like they at least I'm at least gonna give them, Like I don't really love grades, but like a B minus or a B right. They passed, they passed the test. Did they hit it out of the park outside of
the first round. I don't think so, but they at least did enough where I can now get to the point where, Okay, let's see, I'm not the biggest fan of Keon White, but like, let's see what he looks like in pads and let's see what it comes out to. I've sold myself completely on Marty map who I now have him as the next Fred Warner, Like you know that, that pick I'm on board with. And then the interior guys or maybe not, which we'll get to in a second.
Those guys, I think I'm on board with the fact that they're gonna be reliable depth and maybe even some of those guys could be starters in certain spots down the line, and that there's something to be said for that on the offensive line. I think we're all going to look back on this draft though, and then you can give your your taking them. We'll get into the
efficient part of the show. I think we're all on board with the fact that it's more about what they didn't do in this draft and what they did do. And in particular, I understand everybody, myself included, as enamored with pass catchers, and we all want that number one guy. We all want that Stefan Diggs, Tyreek Hill, Garrett Wilson,
we all want that player for the Patriots. But I did kind of get to the point with this draft, and I know you were already there that maybe that guy wasn't in this draft, especially where they could address it unless they were gonna pick, say, Flowers in the first round. It just didn't seem like that guy existed in this draft, to tell all of you the first round. So that those are the things you have to weigh. Do you want Christian Gonzales on the team or do
you want Jackson Smith and Jigba. If you say Jackson Smith and Jigba, there's certainly an argument for that, but it's it's that kind of debate because you couldn't get both in this draft. And that's why I think they waited till the sixth round on receivers is because they truly felt like Josh Downs and to Mario Douglas kind of the same guy, right, kind of the same thing. So why are we drafting Josh Downs in the third round when we can get to Mario Douglas in the
sixth I don't always subscribe to that theory. I think there is a difference at the end of the day. But athletically, from a size, speed, skill standpoint.
Douglas might be better athletically, even.
It's not that different. So that's where I'm out with the draft. I'm willing to let by guns be bygones on a lot of things. The one thing I can't let go. Yeah, the one thing is tackle.
I just I did take a tackle.
Stop it.
They did.
They did not take a tackle. They did not let me finish my thought. They did not take a tackle. That is a day one starter at tackle. That is true, and that tells me, and I said this on PU that they clearly like the tackles better than we do. They do well.
Matt grow told us that two three weeks and we.
Believed him because it was it seems sincere at the time, and he backed it up with the way that they ran the draft. They like Riley Reef and Calvin Anderson and Trent Brown and Connor McDermott and Yanni could just better than the people on the outside of the building. And Okay, I'll let them have this one. Let's see what let's see what it looks like. But I am very concerned about tackle because I think they have enough pass catchers. I think Bill O'Brien's gonna do his thing.
I think that's going to allow Mac Jones to do his thing closer to his rookie season, if not better. But can they protect? Can they hold up in pass protection? And they're gonna face some really good edge rushers on their schedule, So are they gonna be able to hold up in pass protection? I think is going to be the make or break for this offense.
Well, let me ask you this. You just said that whole thing about receiver and like they waited because they couldn't get the guy outside of Yes, they did actively pass on Proderick Jones, and I'd say the same thing to you. Who would you rather have Proderc Jones or Christigan Salaz?
Right?
Was there really really a Day one starter at tackle on the board after that? I know there's guys who liked Yeah, Blake Freelan, Jannia Morris, guy, Yeah, But were those guys truly day one starters? The one guy maybe is Dewan Jones. But for him to fall as much as he did tells me there was something in his interviews. I know there's a report out there now that he's telling teams he wanted to play in the NBA. I don't know, but yeah, the league clearly didn't view him as a Day one starter.
He debunked that on Twitter. He was like, I don't know where that came from.
It seemed weird. It seemed very weird. He did get D one basketball offers, but she had.
To see the highlights that they showed on ESPN during the draft of him dunking on people at six age.
That was the whole thing. Always too big, he can't move the footwork. I try to tell people, but was there a tackle that kind of fits the description of the guy you're looking for after the first round? I don't think there was. Yeah, I think now, look, I think you could say so they were going to have to develop, but a draft of developmental tackle and where the other you can say, well, if you're going to draft a developmental tackle, draft a guy who play tackle,
that's a fair argument. But right after they passed on Proderc Jones, they were going to end up with the developmental tackle one way or the other, and that's what they did.
Yeah, so there's two guys that I think that you can because I think once you get into the third round of this tackle class, just looking at something, you know, looking at the way that things came off the board probably not gonna gonna talk about a tackle at seventy six, right, I just I don't really see it. I think the one guy was Nick Saldeveri, who went with the very first pick of the fourth round that maybe had some third round potential, But I can understand why where their
thought process was not going in that direction. I suppose I think the one the second guess is probably why didn't that trade up in the second round materialize? Because they've made that trade up several times five years, five years in a row. They had the capital and the one guy.
As a buyer's market, it was a beneficial market for teams looking to move up rather than ye down.
So the one guy that you look at and that situation is obviously Matthew Bergeron from Syracuse, who went thirty eighth, so exactly where the bar More trade literally exactly. So maybe you know who was it an Atlanta really loved Matthew Bergeron and you would have to jump Atlanta. Right, So now you're talking about giving up even more capital, maybe even the third seventy six to move higher than Atlanta.
But that was the one I guess. Anton Harrison went twenty seventh to the Jaguars at the end of the first round. I think that's a little bit too high. I think you're giving up a lot to get up to twenty seven from forty six. Yep. So that that's an interesting conversation. I think why didn't a trade up in the second round materialize?
Did they think Bergeron was worth it? A lot of teams viewed Bergeron coming in as a guard, right, and what you want the moving up for a guard, Like, maybe they didn't think he was a tackle, but.
They think cities, how is a tackle? I'm just playing? Well, no, the size of this that's all.
Well, maybe they're more comfortable. So if they're if it's a comparable thing, right, this guy's probably a guard, but we're gonna try and to tackle. Wouldn't you rather draft that player with your third pick in the fourth round than moving up in the second round?
It's fair, right, yep.
So maybe they saw Bergeron as a guard and said, you know what, if we're gonna have to draft a guy that we're gonna have to play there out of position anyway, we're gonna do it later in the draft. And we also know how much they liked Keon White.
Yeah, so that's a good a good tia to Keon White. And I think the other second guess that a lot of people have is obviously missing out on this tight end class. And based off of mac Roe's comments, it seems like their tight end board might have been really small, like a lot smaller than maybe we thought about this class.
I think, really small and maybe a little more the way he said guy, he says them like guys were going faster and faster off the board. I wonder if they I think they had guys graded differently than most of the league. I think the league had a lot of these guys great at higher than they did.
Yeah, So that one definitely had a little bit of of interesting twists.
You know.
Tucker Craft I think went two picks after seventy six. I think he was seventy eight or seventy nine. Josh Downs and Tucker Craft went within like three picks of their pick at seventy six, and then obviously Darnell Washington, Yeah, at the end of the third round. So my guess is that Darnell Washington was probably either off their board or maybe more like Kishan Boodi territory due to injury that they would have taken him on day three just for the upside, but probably not in a top one
hundred pick situation. And then you look at the players that went off the board in the second round, unless that materialized that second round trade up to get a guy like a Musgrave or a Laporta or a Meyer that went in the thirties, I'm not taking schoon Maker at forty six, like, I think that was a reach by Dallas, And I don't really Breton's strange that early also was strange right like that that was just a little bit of a surprise too. So I don't know.
I guess what I'm coming at with with tight end and with the tackle and receiver is once they took Christian Gonzales in the first round, the board really didn't I don't think fall completely. Now. The one second guest that I would I would say, like I just said with tight end is Tucker Craft.
Tucker Craft over.
Yeah, Like what was up with that? Because we had heard about the.
And that's Josh Downs too, by the way, when yeah, kick after we had.
Heard about the connection with Bill O'Brien and that Alabama tried to get Tucker Craft from South Dakota State. We had heard that they had him in for a top thirty visit. We had heard a lot of things connecting Tucker Craft to the Patriots, So I would love to know. Obviously they I don't think they're gonna tell us right anytime seeing why they didn't pick Tucker Craft, but that that's the one that I think you can you can hang around Dewan Jones. I know I've gotten a lot
of people asking about Dwan Jones. I'm sure you have.
To Darnad Washington.
No, I just moving back to tackles. Yeah, because that Darnald Washington, we know how to knee issue that came out during the draft, Dwan Jones's situation. Honestly, I think you know, Trent Brown went really late in his draft, and I wasn't. We didn't cover the draft back then, so I don't know what the whole story was with that. Sometimes when people are that big, it scares teams off. The weight scares teams off. To be three hundred and
eighty pounds, it's a little bit scary. Is he gonna have the motor, Is he gonna have the the focus, Does he have the diet right, does he have the discipline? For the NFL, because if he's gonna play at three eighty, we know with Trent the Patriots have weight clauses in his contract to keep him closer to I think to probably three sixty, maybe even three forty three forty five if they can get him there. So I think with a guy like Darnell Dewan Jones, excuse me, that weight
becomes a flag for teams to be that size. You get concerned, can this guy? Can he play sixty five snaps? And if he plays sixty five snaps in the NFL in a game, how good is he for all sixty?
Right?
You know? Is he playing fifteen at full tilt? And the rest of them? He doesn't have the motor, he doesn't have the endurance to play hard or all those types of things I think are what teams have conversations about.
Except look, he did it at Ohio State.
I'm not saying I agree with it, so I can hear that here's.
What I think it is. And it's kind of to your point. And remember when I first brought Dwan Jones up on this show. My compo was for him, wasn't you remember?
Was it trend Brown?
No, it was Tarik Wollan because I think there's an element of it's kind of what you just said. When a guy is and it's a little different size wise in terms of positions, but when a guy is that big and that athletically gifted, I think teams look at it and say what's the catch, and I think they overthink it. Yeah, Tarik Wolan went in the fifth round last year. He's the twenty first corner on the board and short of you know, a historic rookie season from Sauce,
Gardner would have been defensive Rookie of the year. But he went in the fifth round. There was no reason for him to go in the fifth other than we've got to be missing something. Everything else in the makeup checked out. It was an overthing.
To be fair, he was. He was a little bit raw in common.
I mean, I'm not saying he should have gone in the first round.
Right, but he went to a great situation.
He was a top one hundred pick. He was you look at him, he was a top one hundred pick and he went like he went in the fifth round. Now, he didn't fall as far or he fell further than Dewan Jones did. But I think some of it with Dewan Jones was team's looking at it and saying, he's guy six eight, three seventy he's got basketball footwork. There's got to be something wrong with him. There's got it like you look like comprehension.
Trent Brown just because he's irrelevant for the Patriots. But Orlando Brown's another guy that fell because of his size. Right, you know, the teams just they don't like it. They for whatever reason.
They because I think they overthink it.
Yeah, I think that they worry about the motor. They worry about can this guy true play sixty five seventy five snaps in an NFL game at a tempo that teams with these modern offenses like to play at at a tempo where he's moving, he's past blocking on an island like the playing NFL football. Well, you know it's a lot. All right, let's take some of these calls and then we'll get into the pick by pick. Uh, Patty, is this a Star Wars call or is it a football call? Patty?
Oh, it's definitely a football call.
What's up?
So?
I just wanted to get both of your guys opinions on what do you think the realistic camps that to Mario Douglas makes the fifty three man roster. I honestly don't like I'm intrigued by Boute, but I don't think he's probably gonna make the roster, you know, barring them trading away one of their receivers from last year that's still on the roster. But to me, Douglas, the way the way you guys talked him up during the Shrine Bowl week, like, to me, he's he intrigued me a little bit more than.
Does Yeah, Patty, thanks for the call. As always, I think that that's really fair to look at where de Mario Douglas is right this second, compared to Kishan Bute is more intriguing. He's healthier, he's been better more recently than Booty. Is it Booty or b I want to say Bote. I don't want to call the guy booty. Uh, he's been better recently last year literally last year, right right. Butte is a complete project projection that he's going to get back to the way he was in his first
sixteen games at LSU before the injury. Douglas doesn't have that kind of concern. He's just coming from liberty and he's smaller.
And he only has one year of college production.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
So I'm I'm oh, yeah, well one year of like major major. He was really good with Malik Willis also, Yeah, but he wasn't he forget he missed games or something like. No, he just he was coming on right, right, he didn't play as he was ran. That's what I'm saying. He's one year of like being a starting receiver.
Right, but the tape that put him on the map for NFL teams including the Patriots year.
Oh yes. So what I would say though, and actually, of both of them on my initial roster projection, I think what will help Douglas more than Bote is Ba's role as a starting wide receiver, and he's kind of blocked right, Like Patty said, unless they move somebody, you're gonna have DeVante Parker, Juju Smith, Schuster, and then either Taekwon or Kendrick Bourne. That's your eleven, right. I don't think, at least not initially, I don't think to Mario Douglas's
role is to like be in the receiver rotation. To me, he's about They had this really dynamic package last year with Marcus Jones that worked super well, but they couldn't run at a ton because Marcus Jones, like he only had so many hours in the day, and they made them focusing on defense and things like that. And he's made it clear and the teams kind of suggested that he's a defensive player. He might play on offense here and there, but he is a defensive player. He's not
making the shift to offense full time. But you'd still like to have that package available to you whenever you want it because it's a good package. To Mario Douglas as a ball carrier is comparable to Marcus Jones, and he even said he's watched Marcus Jones. So that to me is how he gets on the roster. It's an opportunity to run the Marcus Jones package. Without Marcus Jones on the field, there's a very clear role for him on the team. So I actually think he has a
good chance at making it. We go back to when we talk about leading him the draft, right, I always say, even if it's not the player I want them to draft, if there's a path to playing time, if there's a clear role, I will never straight up hate the pick because if you tell me you have a plan for this guy. Fine, I'll buy in. Let's see what the plan is there is I think there can be, and who knows what it actually is, but I think there can be a very clear plan for Damario Douglas to
contribute in New England as a rookie. Although Kashan Butez certainly is a higher ceiling, I actually think the plan for him in year one is much murky than it is for tomorrow Douglas.
I couldn't agree more. Because they have four receivers, there's gonna be a spot for a fifth guy, and I've seen some Matthew Slater doesn't count, right, So there's gonna be a spot for a fifth guy. And if you're looking for a guy that adds a different dimension and adds something else to that room that isn't repetitive to the guys that are gonna be the ones that are gonna be playing the most, it's Douglas.
You know.
Bute's role is very very similar to Juju. It's very very similar to Kendrick Bourne. There.
He's kind of like somewhere right in between the tools, right.
And so, yes, there is a world and I think this is maybe the argument for Bote. There is a world that we get out to trading camp in July and Kaishon Bute looks like freshman year Kaishan Butte, and he's just a star right there. There's certainly a world where that could happen. Maybe not a realistic one, but because we care to dream on this program, it could possibly happen. But the guy that has the most realistic and easiest path to the roster is to Mario Douglas.
And I was talking to Eric Galaco from the Shrine Bowl for a profile on Douglas and that that is exactly the comp that he made. He said, he's basically Marcus Jones if Marcus Jones was a full time offensive player, right, and and that's exactly what the Patriots could do to with him. So as much as I would love to use my comp of Marcus Jones, but if he was on offense, like Galco just brought up, I also think of guys like maybe like a Nicole Hardman Rights as
a decent comp for him as well. I think Harbin's more a faster guy in a straight line, right, like Carbon's like a four to two guy, like he's he's faster than Tomorrio Douglas. But I think Tomorrio Douglas might actually be a little bit more of a polished route runner, you know. I think one of the things that stood out to me is the most about Douglas's film was the double moves, the vertical double moves that he runs, the post corners, the out and ups like things. It
looks like Zay Flowers like. It's really very very similar. Obviously not a game, it's the same level of competition. But that's another thing that Galco said about Douglas was that Zay even recognized that Douglas was similar to him. He said he that Zay was coming up to him
and being like, who's this kid from Liberty? Looks like me out there right right, And so that element of it, I think it definitely all the reasons why we wanted or I wanted I don't want to put you in this corner, all the reasons that I wanted Zay Flowers on this football team. Tomrio Douglas does a lot of the same things. Yeah, he's just not as complete of a player.
It's just not his experience, right.
Zay Flowers can play inside, he can play outside. He has a full route tree. Tomorrio Douglas is a lot more Mkole Harmon. He's a lot more gadget and vertical, Like those are the two things that you're gonna get.
So two more things on Tomorow Douglas. One another reason I think is a chance to make the team. So Marcus Jones obviously returns both kicks and punts, but he's more comfortable as a punt returner, Like that's kind of his game. Yeah, Tomrio Douglas is actually more of a kick returner than a punt returner. So it takes one more thing off Marcus Jones' plate without maybe a step back, where Marcus Jones is your punt returner to Mario Douglas
is your kick returner. One other really interesting comp I heard for to Mario Douglas, and it's an imperfect comparison, but because this guy was probably ahead of his time, Yeah was Percy Harvin.
Yeah, I always get worried about comparing people to Percy Harvin just because the mythical nature of Percy. Everybody remembers Percy Harvin and thinks of this guy that was like this generational Hall of Fame athlete, which I think he was.
But yeah, yeah, no, But but isn't that kind of the point. NFL teams didn't know how to use Percy Harvin when he was in the league. They kept trying to turn him into like a traditional receiver, and they were sending him over the middle and you just got the crapp eat out of him. Yeah, because he wasn't
big enough. He wasn't big enough for me. And this is when there were still everybody had two hundred and fifty pounds linebackers that were, you know, playing zone in the middle of the field in head hunting, not head hunting, but you know what I mean, yep. And now that these linebackers have got much smaller, it opens the door for these hundred and eighty pound burner receivers to just go out there and put guys in a blunder people.
And it's an interesting comparison because that's probably who Percy Harvin should have been. Line him up in the backfield, line him up in the slot, put him in motion, have him returned kicks, just find ways to get the ball in his hands in space. I've always an interesting comparison.
Yeah, that's a good one. I think the biggest thing, and then we can move on from Douglas. The biggest thing with Douglas to me is that I did not see him necessarily being that Julian Edelman wes Welker chain moving jitterbug underneath right. He ran some hitches, he ran some slants at Liberty, but this is a horizontal field stretcher, as like sort of a gadget player right behind the
line of scrimmage or a vertical die like. Those are the two things that he did the most at Liberty, So I wouldn't necessarily look at him as like a high volume He's gonna catch eighty passes in the slot. I don't think that that's necessarily the projection, but certainly the quickness, the separation ability, and then obviously the game
breaking ability with the football in his hands. If all those things translate from Liberty to the pros, and I don't really see any reason why they shouldn't just give him based off his combine. He tested, and he ran well, and he jumped out jumped almost at a forty inch vertical, which tells you how explosive he is in the lower half. He should be able to translate. So really exciting player.
Definitely one of those guys, Alex that a couple of weeks when we get to go out to OTAs, I think tomorrow Douglas might be the star of OTAs because when you can't when you're not in pads and you can't hit him and you can't contact him really and he's just running around out there, he's going to make some plays. All right, Sean and Vancouver, what's up, Sean?
Hey, everybody's going, Yeah, happy Star Wars Day. But I'm not going to talk about that. I want to talk about the draft, and yeah, I love Gonzales and when that pick was coming down, I was still surprised that he was there and JSDN and I would have been happy with Broderick Jones, but obviously you have to pick, and we got the best of just about anyone who
could have possibly been available. So that's great. The only thing that I'm kind of irked about is two of my draft crushes that were projected to go in the late first, early second were there to be taken, and for some reason injuries and other concerns, maybe laziness, they just kept falling in the Patriots past. And so I'm just hoping now that whoever plays right tackle for the
Patriots will have a better season than Dewan Jones. And somehow Darnell Washington doesn't stay on the field, And that's weird to try and root against guys that you liked that but that's thing. Going to be really mad that that happened, because you know, Evan, I know that Paul bugged you about saying you know more than Bill Belichick, but you know, Bill Belichick isn't always right. He made terrible decisions last year that put us in bad spots.
So that's even though he's the greatest coach of all time, he doesn't mean that he's going to get everything right. And we've seen that a lot, but that happens. Now. I'm one of the players that I'm really rooting for is Cities out because I grew up in Montreal and I've been to Beaumont, so nice to have someone from
that area on the team. And I'm kind of hoping that it's kind of a pie in the sky thing, but I'm kind of hoping that he plays right tackle the same way that when you did in twenty twenty one and does well and that settles that spot and we're okay on the line. And then the question I have for you is do you think Jack Jones will start on the as a permitter corner? Do you think they'll be an outside corner for the Patriots in twenty twenty three?
Awesome? Yeah, thanks for the call, Sean. I think a lot of good points there. Look, were all going to look back on Dowan Jones and Darnell Washington's careers, and if they end up having great careers, then we're going to look back on that as what if.
Right you don't have.
Yeah, I personally I like rooting for them because it makes me look right hyped.
So I am couldn't inflicted on Zach Kunz.
But that's the start, you know, like, if if Zay Flowers ends up having a great career in Baltimore, then I'm gonna be okay with it, honestly.
Well, I mean, look, Justin Jefferson is your favorite player in the league?
Yes, for a reason.
Yeah.
Anyways, the question that he had or the point that about City sat in the line, and I guess can tee us up for the discussion on those guys. I think the biggest thing was City sal and I would put Tony O Maffi in this category two. Uh, they clearly. I think that both of those guys resemble mike on Wenu for different reasons, if that If that makes sense, and I think that both those guys the idea behind those picks are similar to well, look at how well mike on Wenu worked out our system and how that
situation worked out so well. With Sau, I think that he's a little bit similar to mike on Winnu if Michael Win who stuck a tackle right or maybe even I guess what Michael when who is He's also got a little bit of Marcus Cannon in him, I would say as well, just in terms of a guy that's a little bit taller, a little bit longer than a mike on win who uh Tonio Maffi from UCLA is mike on win who just carbon copy essentially. I think he's maybe a little bit smaller, like ten pounds smaller,
but he once was heavier. They he's lost a lot of weight and he he plays and looks this wide bodied interior lineman for sure, heavy heavy handed. You know, there's a couple of plays against USC that I that I saw that as soon as he gets his hands on people, it's the rep is over right. He's got these heavy mits, great latch strength, great upper body towards, so he can just throw guys to the ground at
that point. Once he's got you, there's gonna be the same questions, I'm sure when on one who came out that I remember about his heavy footed mists and his ability to laterally change directions. I think the biggest thing with him is once he if he loses early in the rep, if he doesn't get first contact, he doesn't get your hand his hands on him initially, is he going to have that redirect, that recovery talent to be able to then refit and hold his ground right or
is he going to be boom or bust? Is he going to be somebody that either gets his hands on you and it's over or you go around? And that was what happened a little bit at UCLA at times. But there's a ton of connections there, Citi sow. We've heard the Albert Breer report. Now he certainly checks the boxes from a length standpoint and an athleticism standpoint at
the combine to be able to play tackle. He's got just over the threshold on the arm length, and he had a pretty good combine workout where he's an above average athlete, so he can play tackle. Based off of what I saw of him, I don't love him at tackle.
I just think a lot of those types of guys you can just sort of tell that their skill set is so much more conducive to a phone booth than it is to space and being on an island, because when he comes off the ball, he can generate so much displacement on the line of scrimmage just with his upper body power and is really I would say his leverage and he's him and Mafi both have a pretty rare ability to bend for guys that are that size. I think it's a lot of projection because he also
didn't play tackle recently. It's been a couple of years. Yeah, But I think either way, I like both of those guys. I think both of those guys have a role on an NFL roster, and we'll make a team like the Patriots obviously, So I'm intrigued by both of them. But I know you were joking earlier about sal playing tackle, but there's some rationale to it. Certainly.
I look at that size six eight or six five three twenty three. He got thirty three and three eight cinch arms, So he checks the box there. He's tremendous athlete. He's one of the best offensive line testers at the combine. Yep, if you take his numbers at tackle, their top three in every drill he did for tackles at the combine.
And there's something to be said for all. Right, if I say this, how many times I say this, he's that big in that athletic, get him in the building and figure it out, right, And I think what I worry about with him at tackle is the footwork, right, I think he is the here's the thing. I think he's a size and athleticism to play there. It's just a technique thing. But this is all Their whole draft was great size, great that great athleticism, needs better technique,
which they draft all. They drafted all the uncoachable traits, and they're just banking on the coaching staff to get these guys going. Yeah, for the most part, like Christian zalz polished, they did draft a couple more high floor guys. To Mario Douglas, I think Mafi's more a high floor guy than a high ceiling Maffi is.
The type of guy that, like, he could play right guard tomorrow and he might not be the best right guard in the league, but he's not gonna be.
He's gonna he's gonna he could go. He could play right guard in the NFL tomorrow, he could go. He could play right guard in the NFL in ten years. He's gonna be the same player.
Yep.
Maybe he's not a pro bowler, but like, that's the guy is where is Sow to me is the opposite. I don't know that Saal can come in and play right guard tomorrow, but if he maxes out talking about a pro bowler, at least a guard tackle again, does he have the ability to go to that open side and protect the edge and get around the horn. That's gonna be the big question. We're gonna see it, and we're not really gonna get to see it in the
spring because there's no pads. We'll see it in training camp. Look, I still think tackle is gonna be a need. I think we're gonna hammer tackle as much next offseason as we did this offseason.
At some point they got to address it eventually, Like.
Sav's a lottery ticket if he works out a tackle. Awesome, great, that would be sick. I don't think you can bank on it, right, that's a that's a what if. But I like him. I like all the picks individually. I like the two guard picks individually. Andrews. I thought they picked a little high. He's gonna have size issues in the NFL. But it was like all of them together is kind of I'm like, did you need all those guys? Did you've drafted developmental tackle in there? But I like Sal.
I liked Sal coming in. I'm glad they're trying him to tackle. I don't know that's gonna work, but again, a guy with that athletic profile, give him a shot. Why not? Right, That's kind of what the spring practices are for.
Yeah, I think that there's a chance that him and Mafi end up being good NFL players for them.
Mafi to me, I will say one more thing, Yeah, this is Mike when winners last year in New England. I think that's very clear.
Yeah, that was where I was going with the two. I think that's a real telltales sign because speaking to Mafi's offensive line coach at UCLA, speaking to Eric Alco from the Shrine, Bowl and Mafi was a Shrine Bowl guy. There's two things. One, Belichick really likes Mafi. He called Chip Kelly and had a whole conversation with Chip Kelly
about Mafi. Right, So he's really in on Mafi. And I think that everybody that you talk to, his offensive line coach at UCLA, coach Drevno's just out of not prompted, was just like, you know, I recruited Mike on win who back in the day. Mafi's the same guy. He's the same guy. And when you look at that, I just look. I look at those traits and I look at the same thing, and it's hard not to read that as on when who's probably not going to be here next year. And that's that's just the way it screams.
And I think SOO maybe, like you said, is more of that lottery ticket upside pick in the middle rounds because of the athleticism. So I don't know exactly what SU means quite yet, but I think Mafi is clear cut Mike on Winnu insurance, Like that's that's pretty obvious
what he's on the roster for at the moment. And and we'll see about Andrews I that's the one thing I saw and heard about him was these bigger, more powerful, longer, yeah nose tackles, interior guys like I think about, you know, a guy like DeForest Buckner and like, you know, those bigger guy that he's gonna have problems with that, similarly to how Col Strange I had problems with his rookie year.
The one thing I'll say, and this is where again there's always elements to this that sometimes we might find out immediately after the draft, we might find out years later. There's always things in play that we just don't know, that we just can't account for. Like we didn't know Darnel Washington had a knee injury before the draft, like I would have totally changed my projection. Yeah, maybe the Patriots know something about David Andrews that we don't.
Well, I think what they certainly could know, And I don't think that David Andrews in terms of his health. I mean we saw him at the He's been at all these these workouts. We saw I saw him at the at the draft party on Thursday night. He's as locked in and bought into the systems as ever.
But I think the watch like a guy like that. Yeah.
The one thing that you have to mention with David Andrews's thirty years old.
He's going to be one.
And I do think that he is the type of guy that would have the transparency with the organization. Uh, this might be it, so that That's what I'm saying.
Like, I wonder if he went to them and said this is my last year. Yeah, center becomes a much more logical pick.
Now.
I think there were better centers on the board too, That's part of it. Like I like Luke Whipler from Ohio State. Yeah, we talked about Alex Forsyth from Oregon. You have the Adrian clem connection.
But when I was surprised about that, it was Andrews and not Yea and not Foresight.
Well Whipler, they were at Whipler's prote Yea, I set all my crap about Ohio State and that was wrong. But Andrew Sandmitt when I'm wrong too. Like Andrews is under contract through twenty twenty four, He's still under contract for two more years, I thought. And they have Cody Ruci, who they seem to like, so I kind of thought,
you give Rusi another year. You see where he's at Yeah, and then when Andrews is entering the contract year, if RUSI doesn't get to the point you wanted to get to, that's where you go and you invest heavily in the seven. They took Jake Andrews one hundred and seven. This is the next starting center of the Patriots. Eventually with that pick, I thought that was coming next year. But if you tell me, well, David Andrews told him that he's hanging it up after this year. Okay, Now that pick makes
a lot more sense. Again, maybe I maybe would have gone with a different player. But if David Andrews wasn't a contract year, I would have said, Yah, center, top one fifty makes a lot of sense.
It kind of goes back to it. And I think Covid threw a whole wrench in twenty twenty. Yeah, but Chung and Kyle Duggar, right, Yeah, the team kind of knew. I think before we all did that. Patrick Chunk was retired.
It wasn't Dougger in a contract year that year.
Patrick chungk you mean Chung? Yeah, he might have been, But I just know that there were at that point in time, there were the team was pretty aware that Patrick Chunk was either retiring or contemplating retiring. He ends up opting out of the season because of COVID and went that direction, then retired after the COVID year. Right, but the team was aware that Patrick chuckk was done playing football, right, We weren't as aware. I think there were rumblings and like that he was kind of on
the fence about it. But I think that they were one hundred percent certain that he was not going to play next year. And that's where you get Kyle Duggar, you know, being the top pick in the draft for them. So I think it's similar, could be similar. I don't We don't have any answer.
No, I don't know, but I'm I'm just saying, like.
Makes more sense if that's the case, which would be a bummer because David Andrews a great page.
Of course. No, I don't want to push him out to do it, and that's kind of was my first life. I hope they're not pushing David Andrews out I know, which I don't think they would. But you know, we do so much of using what's going on, what's being said, and what's being done to project draft picks. Yeah, this is the time where we kind of do it the other way around, and do these draft picks tell us anything about the roster? Yeah, and that you know, I
mentioned the Mic and winnything before. I think the two guards signal that they don't feel great about paying him. I know, you think Marte mop who's going to play linebacker? I wonder if did We're going to get to it. They are wondering about paying Kyle duggar uh. And I think Jake Andrews that pick tells me David Andrews assigned for two years, but maybe those two years aren't a guarantee.
Yeah, all right, let's take this call from Michael, and then I do want to get into the day. Two guys. All right, Michael, what's up?
Let's go Hey guys, Hey, guys are doing so you know, I think I think from from my perspective, like I know that you guys. I know Evan, you keep saying like they do they do on ANU with guard, he's guard, he's guard. And I just personally think that you've got to try your best offensive lineman's like they have to
be your tackle. You can you can find guys like Moss in the fourth round so like I would, I wouldn't be surprised if they try on tackle again under Climb and O'Brien see maybe a PC could be the answer there. But overall, like you know, there's a lot of people that are like yah, I wish where they could have taken a tight end or you know, receiver
early or even the develpmenttal tackle. I really do think overall, looking at the draft, I like it's should you consider how they've built this team in the off season with some of the free agent acquisitions, Like, there's not a lot of guys who probably find a little you know, in those spots where maybe would have staye one that can make an impact this next year. Maybe Josh Downs
I can I can see that. But if they don't see Tucker Craft or at Krusis fits at tight end, then you know they're not gonna they're not gonna really ortake them in those spots. So but I just wanted to get you guys opinion on the overall off season in general, and like the way that they've approached team building and I think only missing the playoffs by one game last year, and if it wasn't for two return touchdowns against Buffalo, maybe we actually could send to the playoffs.
So yeah, I think I think overall the team is in a way better spot this year than it was last year in a roster perspective. But want to figure your guys thought.
Yeah, thanks for the call, Michael, I definitely agree. I'm not ruling out Mike on when are you playing tackle? Yeah, every all of the tea leaves say that he's going to stick a guard.
I mean they were adamant about it last year. Yeah, remember that he's already now it's a different offensive mine now, so maybe that changes.
Yeah, But even Macro after the Day three of the draft said he's kind of settled in at guard, And I do think that there's something to be said for he's like the one consistent guy that you probably have on that line over the last couple of years besides Andrews, and to continue to move them around and mess with them, Like, I think there's something to be said for that. Now. The overall team building approach of the offseason, and that is it obviously can go in a lot of different directions.
I think overall, though, I do, I am starting to see that they are building towards something. I think specifically on the defensive side of the ball.
Certainly they built and building towards. I mean, there's not much more they can.
Have the defensive side of the ball. And I mentioned this on PU I went and I like to listen to some of the national guys, not not like on the talking head shows, like the podcast and stuff like that. You know, people's opinions that I trust and normally think are smart ball minds. They're bullish on the Patriots defense too, and the Patriots defense on paper right now is low key kind of loaded, especially if Christian Gonzales ends up being as good as we all think he's going to be.
So the one question mark that I don't know if those people because they're just not here and they're not as glued into it as maybe we are, that that's not being brought up is obviously replacing Devin mccordy, and not necessarily the skill set, but just the mental side of it and the coaching on the field and the field general side of it. I think it's going to be harder than people realize. But talent wise, this defense has got talent at all three levels. They're faster, they
have better athletes. I think in most spots, and that brings us to the two day two picks, because I will admit I was a little bit down after Friday night. I was up here after Christian Gonzales. And for people that don't know, we did a Christian Gonzales podcast last Friday, So if you want to listen to our takes on Christian Gonzales, we've already hashed that out. So that's why we're not doing that today. I was sky high when
they picked Christian Gonzales in the first round. The second round brought me back down to Patriots draft territory, right, like, just back to real Patriot all right, They're gonna take their guys and they're probably not gonna be my guys, and this is just the way that it goes. I think starting with Marty Mapoo, you just said something that you're gonna get me going on this about his position, yeah,
on the Patriots and his position in the NFL. I will be extremely critical of this team if they view Marty Mattpoo as a safety. I will be even more critical of this team if they view Marty Mapoo as a Kyle Duggart replacement. And the two reasons why are one, they have been starving, starving for some athleticism at the second level of the defense, like they need it more than they need anything else maybe on that side of
the football at this point. And they drafted a two hundred and twenty pound missile at the linebacker position in college that has film of him doing all of the things that they need somebody to do, right, going sideline to sideline, the tracker, running back, spying mobile quarterbacks, read option plays. Like That's the one thing that I think is really important with these draft picks and guys like Mapu.
They grew up in read option, they grew up defending RPO, they grew up defending mobile quarterbacks, Like this is something that isn't a learned behavior from them once they get to this level, right. I think with a lot of the Patriots old school, you know, two hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty five pound linebackers, I think a lot of those guys were just at the beginning of the RPO read option mobile quarterback craze even in college.
Now it's like a whole different animal, right, The schemes and the creativity is out. Guys like Marty Mapu, especially in the FCS where he played football, where you aren't as talented as other teams. You're not Alabama or Georgia, right, So you have to get an edge with scheme and you have to get an edge with coaching to an extent. He he knows the keys on a read option play. He understands where they're trying to attack him on an
RPO a lot better than a lot of guys. It's kind of like how grow talks about, you know, receivers being some natural pass catchers because of seven on seven right and having so much experience in the passing game. Now,
I look at it the same way with Mapu. So on the one hand, he checks all the boxes that we've been clamoring for at linebacker in terms of speed, athleticism, instincts, that ability to when Josh Allen rolls right and throws across the field to a touchdown pass to Dawson Knox, Sorry, PTSD. We have a guy now that can that can push him out of bounce right. We have a guy now that can go get him, and that I think is
something that they've been missing. The second thing is we have talked a lot about how the Patriots draft from basically sixteen to nineteen. If you want to say seventeen to nineteen, that range really set this organization back a half decade because they drafted so poorly.
Three bad drafts set you back six years.
Kyle Dugger was the first pick that turned the tide. Yeah, Kyle Dugger is not a perfect player. I know, you know, Badard goes on your station a lot, Alex and talks about how he's overrated and how he's got issues in coverage. And I don't necessarily disagree with any of the nitpicks about Kyle Dugger, but at the end of the day, I do think that their nitpicks, and I think that he's a playmaker and he's an impact player on the
defensive side of the ball. They don't have enough of those types of guys to just let one walk out the door, right, And that's also add to that that next year because they don't have a lot of cap commitments, because they don't have a lot of big price players. They have like one hundred million dollars in salary cap space or something ridiculous like that if you project.
It out right now, third fourth most in the league, right.
So they have all the money in the world to go out and pay Kyle duggar. Kyle Dugger is the is the beginning of a new era on that side of the football. And in a positive he is a hit. You hit on him in the draft. It was a good pick in twenty twenty. Why do you want to restart, like, why do you want to hit the reset button? Over money? Like over contract for a safety? Mind you, that isn't That's not a twenty plus million dollar a year deal.
That's a position that's still watered down across the league. We're not talking about paying a guy twenty five million dollars a year. So I would be really I'd be really critical if they let Kyle Dugger walk and dis replace him with Marty Mapho. Marty Mapho if he hits his his potential, which I just mentioned a lot of
the things that he can do. He can cover I would say more so in zone and I don't know if he's fast enough to be a true man guy on tight ends, but he can cover the second in the middle of the field, second level middle of the field type things. He's got that range, he's got that ability to go from the middle of the field to the sideline and make a play. He's got that quarterback
spy element in that downhill trigger. And then the film at the Senior Bowl really showed a guy that even at two hundred and twenty pounds, has the physicality to hold up in the box. I really feel like he can take on blocks, and especially when he when he sees it and he goes triggers downhill, he packs a punch right because he's moving so quickly. He's explosive. So I think that he can play linebacker. And I look at guys like Matt Milano, I look at guys like
Dion Jones. I look at guys that are Fred Warner is a little bigger Fred Warner. I look this up. He's Fred Warner is listed at two thirty five.
Yeah, Fred Werner's not real.
So but I would say that Mapu is six ' three. He's not. Matt Milano is only six feet tall, right, Dean Jones is six to one, So he's got a little bit more length that maybe he could pack on. I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily want him to pack on that much weight to match Fred Warner. But five to seven pounds of muscle, I think is realistic, and you get him too closer to two twenty five. I don't see any reason why that that guy should not be a linebacker here there. It just especially if you put
him next to Jawan Bentley. So you have your two hundred and fifty pounder, right, you have your thumber. I know what you're I know where your point is that that that this is what they do. They drafted year head Kyle Duggar is a free agent. They're similar enough that you could play them both in similar roles.
Well, Kyle Duggart basically plays like a linebacker now.
A little bit. But I I also just look at it and think, Okay, Devin mccorty's gone. This would in theory, and I don't know if it happens right away from Matt poo just because of various you know, peck injury level competition. In theory, though, this would free up Kyle Duggart to play more of a natural safety position.
Okay, but now you're talking about replacing Kyle dug Art Mapho.
No, I'm talking about Kyle dugger playing safety and Mapho playing linebacker. These two guys.
But you're basically saying Kyle Dugger plays linebacker right now.
No, I don't think he does. I think Kyle Duggar plays a hybrid.
So then how does bringing in Mapo free up Dugger? So all right, you're saying this frees up Kyle Dugger plays safety because Mampho's gonna take over his.
Role, Kyle Dugger playing deep safety, okay, and Mapoo playing in the box as the athletic guy in the box that has the power in the play, strength to be able to hold up at two twenty.
Okay. So but if that's a linebacker, then you're saying Kyle Duger plays linebacker.
I'm saying, I'm saying Kyle Dugger. We're getting into a lot of semantics here, I get it. I'm saying that Kyle Duggar has some has some overlap out back.
Look right, look, here's I don't disagree with anything you said. But for all of that to what for Marte map who has a ton of NFL potential, For that potential to be recognized in New England, something massive has to break, and that can be any number of things. Six three two seventeen is not a linebacker in New England. It's simply not.
So this is what This is what I'm getting at though. They need that philosophical change.
So okay, but this is what I'm saying, so just off of trends though, either he has that, they have to completely rewrite how they view the lineback position. This is not a small change. This is a massive philosophical overhaul. That's one option, desperately, that is one option. The other option is he puts on twenty pounds and essentially plays like mac Wilson and ray Kwan McMillan. Now here's my issue with that. They're very impatient with those guys. You
brought up the Josh Allen athleticism. That's what I'm saying, Well, again, something some guys can put on weight and still be effective. It's rare. You mentioned the Josh Allen play last year, right, Why didn't mac Wilson hit Josh Allen? Because the saying don't take penalties. They don't want their linebackers to be aggressive in that sense, and for a guy like this to be successful, he take chances. He is going to
get beat sometimes. The other thing they could do, I've seen some people suggest this they could turn him into an edge rusher. Well, now he's changing position and he still probably needs to put weight on or six three two seventeen. With his athleticism is kind of a textbook Patriot safety.
He is a.
Physical fit for the Kyle Duggart role. But now he's changing positions and that's a risk. So no matter what happens, adapt Okay, but listen, just listen to my point. Okay, No matter what happens, the path for him to be successful in New England doesn't exist right now. For him to business as usual as a two hundred and seventeen pounder to play linebacker the way the Patriots ask their linebackers to play, that will not work. It won't, okay,
So something massive has to break. You say it's a philosophical change.
I do.
I think they might be looking at a position change.
Ask because the reason I'm more optimistic about it working because I do think that you look at guys like Adrian Phillips, like Yle Dugger, like Jabriel Peppers that do play a lot of their snaps in the box, right and they that's.
Kyle Duggar's role. That's what I'm saying.
But what I'm telling you with Kyle Dugger is that having a Guylac Mapu that can do the things that he does in the box, will now allow Kyle Dugger to take over some of Devin mccorty's responsibilities. Right, So, I don't think that Kyle Dugger is a full time free safety, but they're going to need him to play some free safety.
But so then you're putting Marte Mapu into those responsibilities of what is Kyle Dugar's position a safety? So you are suggesting a position change?
Then no, but that's what that is. No I am I I am not. I want them to make him a linebacker, and I want linebackers in New England.
But what you're describing is not what you're.
Just such a classic argument.
What you're describing is not him playing linebacker.
Yes, it is. I want what I want just to play weak side linebacker.
Is that what Kyle Dugger does now?
No, Kyle Dugger right now plays in the box because he matches up. Okay, okay, but.
Let me as so, then how does drafting Marte Mopu help you play Kyle duggert free safety?
Oh my goodness, this is where I'm going with this. They need to philosophically change how they approach the linebacker position.
Okay, but that has nothing to do with Kyle Duger.
Yess it does because they need to this. Kyle Dugger is on the field and plays his role right now because they won't change from the Jawan Jawan Bentley's and Jolanni de VI's the world linebacker. Okay. So instead what they do is they play dime on third down and Kyle Dugger comes down into the box and plays in that role on third down because they take Jolanni Tavai off the field.
So plays it. What is that role? It's a linebacker role.
It's a it's a safety slash linebacker, moneybacker type of.
Right, Isn't that what Marte Mopu doesn't That project is what they're gonna have him do.
But I want him to do it on first down. Okay, So that's but I don't want him to do it in an obvious path. I want him to do it all down. But I'm not saying I want I don't want him to. I don't want Marty Mapu to be a situational player, Okay. I want the Patriots to recognize that they if they on their schedule next year, they have Josh Allen twice, they have Patrick Mahomes, they play the Eagles and Jalen Hurts. This is the league. You
are gonna play these guys every single week nowadays. Guys that can run, Guys that can create out of structure, guys that can extend plays outside the pocket. And if you are trying to combat those offenses with two hundred and fifty five pound linebackers like Jolani Tovai and Jawan Bentley, then you are going to get run off to you.
So you want a philosophical change again, if they change what they do philosophic and this is a massive This is rewriting the defense. This is not just oh, we're gonna create one role for this player that we're gonna use here and there. This is not having a package for Marcus Jones on offense. This is completely You're taking what day view is the most most important position in the defense. Maybe second most be behind corner, but you're taking with day view as a monumentally important position.
Yes, and you are.
Completely changing the way that they view entirely.
Yes, that's a big ask.
Now, it would work. I'm not disagreeing with you that it wouldn't work. It would absolutely work, And would it make them a better defense. Yeah, probably, but.
He's one step behind on this.
It's I don't think I'm trying to the equivalent.
It's the one thing and I give I give Belichick all the credit in the world for twenty years. Yeah he was always, not always, but he was either at the front of the line. He was a trailblazer. He was. Yeah, he was a trailblazing coach, especially on the defense side of the ball. Heck, the guy invented riplez, all right, he invented match coverage with Nick Saban and Cleveland thirty
years ago. Now everybody, every in every Power five team, and every NFL team in the in the league has riple is in their playbook because of Bill Belichick and Nick Saban. Okay, but the one thing that he has not adapted on is linebacker. He hasn't done it. He still believes in gap control, compressing space, taking on blocks, and in order to do those types of things, you need to be two hundred and fifty pounds right, Okay.
But the problem is is that when they play Buffalo, and when they play Kansas City, and when they play Philadelphia, and let's face it, let's stick it to Buffalo in case, because those are the two teams in the conference. We want the Patriots to get back to the super Bowl, you are going to have to go through one of those teams, if not both of those teams to get there. And right now they're defensive defensively, they can't play Kansas
City in Buffalo that way. They can't. They can't playing like that.
Look, if it's a philosophical change, it's great. Yes, it's great because that's what they need to do. I'm just telling you how many times have they had a chance to make that change the last couple of you remember that linebacker classes all those guys, and.
I think the description, I really hope that they finally see it. And I think a guy like Marty Mapho Marty Matpho didn't play safety in college, right, Marty Map who played linebacker, And I think the biggest difference is is between him and like a guy like Kyle Dugger. Is that because Marty Map who played full time at linebacker at Sacramento State, he has linebacker instincts, right, He reads run keys, he understands blocking schemes, he understands his
role in the front seven. That that's different between when you put safeties at the second level, you're playing those guys out of position, right, Like you're counting on them to understand their their responsibilities, but they don't have. Marty Mapho has the potential and I'm not saying he's there yet, but Marty Mapho has like the instincts of the Juwan Bentley, but the speed of a Kyle Dugger.
So I basically here's my point, because what you're saying. Again, I don't disagree with anything you're saying.
I know this is like when we argue about mock draft.
No different because I don't think this is semantics. I don't think the semantics. I think we're kind of viewing this differently. I agree with everything you're saying in theory. Realistically, though, what's more likely they change for the players or they asked the players to change for them.
I I understand where you're coming from, right, But I'm hoping, and I understand that this is just a hope. This is just a fever dream of it of mine. You know when I when I think up things that you know late at night, Right, Yeah, this is my hope is is that they have drafted Marty Mapho because they've already planned to do this.
Which, by the way, I think would be that if they plan to do this, they went into the draft saying, we want to create this role in our defense. We need to go get a guy to do it exactly. And there weren't a ton of those guys in this draft, right like it wasn't you know, we talked about this. I don't think Henry Toto is quite as athletic enough.
I think, like Drew Sanders would have been the other option, but when I watched, they weren't taking a line back of that time and I when and when I watched Marty Mapoo. Actually, whether it translates or not, I know it is going to be the constant quest for everybody. But I see a faster downhill trigger for Marty Mattpoo
than for Drew Sanders. I think Drew Sanders does a lot of the same things, but when it's clicking close time and it's just closing bursts to the football, I think Marty Mattpoo moves at a little bit of a different speed. But I might not be right about that. That's just eye test, you know, and we'll see. I am hoping that mainly, And look, I'm gonna I don't want to say it like that because I don't want to say that Bill can't adapt, because I just went on a rant about how much he used to adapt.
But I think that there is a little bit of Drawd Mayo influence in this too. I think I hope where you know, Mayo talked about how he loves he loves watching he loves scouting. He said that, he said he loves scouting because he actually not only does he like watching the players, but he also likes to watch
what the college teams are doing schematically right. And it has I have to think that he was watching all these players, all these linebackers that they wanted him to study in the aten, thinking tight fronts like you know, two hundred and twenty pound guys playing like what is any of this right? You know, why are we doing
any of this? And then you look at the film against Buffalo or you look at you know they're gonna I think Kansas City is a perfect these modern offenses, and now all of them, they're all sprouting up all over the league and it's just gonna continue. They need to adapt, and I hope that they realize that, and I hope that they know that where Marty Mapu and
your defense now is not a safety. Yeah, he's a three down linebacker, and you have your Juwan Bentley to play the mic on first down if you still want that, and you still need it because they Bill probably won't change his spots completely, right, So he's still gonna hold on to some things. Juwan Bentley can still be your two hundred and fifty pound MIC that can play the run first down. But Marty Mapu's got to be playing at the second level of the defense. He's got to
have a weak side linebacker responsibilities and rules. I don't want to man to man on a tight end. I want him in a hook, so I want him chasing and I want him tackling people. Yeah, right, that's it.
So, and look, maybe it's interesting you bring up Mayo. Right, there's that report at the beginning of the year that he's coming back, and we figure he's gonna have a bigger role. We don't know what it is. Maybe that's the catalyst for the chains. Maybe Gerd Mayo comes in and says, Bill, I know you've done it this way for twenty something years, but yeah, I want to add this element to the defense maybe, and maybe that's what is So maybe that's it for the record for the
people in the chat. Yeah, I know Kyle Dugger is a safety. I was trying to make a point. He is a safety.
I get that, Yes, I just when I think of Kyle Dugger and I get that he aligns in the box sometimes and basically lines up as a linebacker. But he's somebody that for the most part is either handling high stress zone assignments at the second level, right, like you know, carrying the seam in a Cover two Tampa two. Right, he's the whole player and that in that defense, handling the weak side hook and Cover three. So when that crosser comes from the strong side of the formation, you
have a really good cover player in there. He's man to man on a tight end. Right. I want Matt Pou to play like he's Juwan Bentley right, right, but I want him to play it three downs.
Yeah, it's just again, I'm not I don't disagree with you, but it would be such a massive departure from what they do.
What they do, but they need to do it. They do.
I'm not saying they don't need to do it. But it's and at some point that's got to win any dog new tricks.
He's he's he's changed before.
I don't even mean like I didn't even mean that it Bill directly. I just mean in general, like their whole thing's built around this one concept. Again, because if you make that change, you're not just changing the way one player plays. It impacts everybody else on the defense, you have to change things about other positions to accommodate it. Again, I actually that you brought up d Mayo is a
really good point. Yeah, maybe this is Drod Mayo coming in and saying I want to make this change philosophically on the defense, I'm calling this, go get me this guy. Yeah right, Maybe maybe it wasn't Map who maybe gave him five players and said give me one of these guys. Right, But yeah, that's that to me would be the thing. But it's we're talking whether they do it or not, Evan, And you can want them to do it all you want, and I think there's certainly a case of doing it.
You have to do it. It's a massive, massive change.
It's a massive change in terms of it's a massive change in terms of like how they look at labeling positions, right, Like Kyle Duggan and Jabriel Peppers and Adrian Phillips have done some of these things recently, But they meet with Brian Belichick and Mike Pellegrino and the DBS, right, they don't meet with Gerard Mayo and Steve So from that respect, to have somebody that's in the meeting room with the linebackers and wearing a linebacker number and is a linebacker
doing the things that they ask Adrian Phillips to do is certainly different. But asking a player of that size to take on some of the roles and responsibilities I'm saying he should take on they've been doing with their safeties for the last.
Couple I guess the changes, Like you're not taking Adriane Phillips or Kyle dugar off the field to put this guy on.
You might be taking Adrian Phillips off.
That would be interesting.
And Adrian Phillips getting up there.
All right, It sounded like you were saying, like, take Juwan Bentley off the field or take like.
I think that certainly, like Maphu should be your third Dan, Mike, like if you and look, we're this is projection. We're talking about this, you know, philosophically, and if the player works out, there's a chance that he's a dud and he's a bust and he doesn't play anything. Well. If the player works out, then on third I would even say, like depending on down and distance, on second down too, Yeah,
he should be your Mike linebacker. On first down, he's gonna play offset Bentley because they're not gonna take Bentley off the field and have them run power at Marty Map who had two hundred and twenty pounds. They won't do it. So that respect, I think, you know, where does he whose spot does he take? Whose snaps does he take? I definitely think you're you're thinking more Adrian Phillips because I don't think they're pulling Kyle Dugan infield.
Phillips is like significantly bigger than he is. He's not toleran. He's two hundred and ten pounds.
Phillips is two hundred and ten pound.
Philps two hundred ten pounds right listed.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
So I guess it's more like this is what I mean by the change, right, Where is the where are these snaps coming from? You're taking somebody off the field, whether it's Jawan Bentley, whether it's Adrian Phillips.
Okay, but who But let me bring it home. Yeah, he already took somebody off the field, Devin mccordy. He retired, Okay, So somebody is gonna have to play Devin McCarty's responsibilities. The guy that I think is best suited to do it.
Is Kyle Duggar right, okay.
Because he played free safety in college. Yeah, he's got the range, he's got the physicality, and he's got the instincts like he's a ballhawker, that's right. As much as he might give up plays at times, he bakes them. Right. Yeah, So I think Kyle Duger, Like I said earlier, I don't want Kyle Dugger to play Devin McCarty's role one hundred percent of the tight. I still think that he's so impactful in the box that they need to leave him some freedom to play in the box.
Well, okay, let me take Okay, it's another way though, What if Jalen Mills is the free safety, Because it sounds like that could happen.
I think Jalen Mills. So now we're really going down in the rabbit hole. I like this. No, this what we do Jalen Mills, Yeah, is covering tight ends. Kyle Duggar is Devin McCarty. He's gonna play free safety and then sometimes rotate into the box because he's so good there. Jalen Mills to me, they look at him, They look at him and say, probably too slow to play outside corner. Right, he can't keep up with receivers, so but he can play. And man, so what do you do? You have n't covered slower guys.
Okay, but so now you're taken. Devin McCarty's off, yep. But Jalen Mills still on the field, old because he was on the field last year. You're keeping Kyle Dugger on the field. Also added Christian Gonzales to play outside corn, play outside corner. You know, where's Marcus Jones. There's Jonathan Jones and.
Arcus Jones in the slot. Okay, Jonathan Jones is your field corner.
Jack Jones. We're not including Jack Jones? Just fine. I don't think I'm with you on that. But all right, so where are the snaps? Where is the role form? Marte map? So all right, so Kyle goes to Marty, Kyle Dugger goes to deep safety, and Marte mop who takes some of the responsibilities Kyle Dugger.
So Marty mapoo to me and they're let.
Me Okay, I think this is what I've been trying to ask. I couldn't figure it out. Are you just essentially a racing not a racing? But when Kyle Duger plays deep safety, are you just getting rid of the role he has and you have Marte mop who doing similar things but in a differently defined role.
For the most part. Okay, I think that's the easiest way to put it. I think the other guy that kind of is the odd man out ends up being here as jolani.
As you're strong side edge set. Well, you know what that that's a perfect transition because if you're not gonna get that from the linebacker position, you got a defensive end who does that version. Boom ie, Wow, holy crap, we.
Just did that.
Wow.
See thank you. Now you're speaking my language, which brings us to the second round pick in the Patriots.
So now we're you're going full circle. So now we're going I guess it's not three four to four three, but now we're taking a linebacker, we're taking a linebacker off, putting a hybrid linebacker safety on, and adding a defensive end, adding a hybrid defensive hybrid defense. He's a defensive end.
I I so he's a five technique.
He's a five tech.
Yeah.
So you think he's gonna play standing up?
Maybe okay in some fronts because if he's playing stand up over the tight end right on the strong side of the formation, I'm so glad we got this full circle. Yeah. Then I think that he look the commine says he can do it. Right, guy ran like a four.
On the back. I think it was thirty one.
I'm not the biggest key on White Fan. I'm just gonna put that out there. And the reason why I was not the biggest key on White Fan is because I personally feel like he just doesn't have that like first step Josh off the ball explosiveness as I have to do. And as I am doing talking myself into everything over here, I am recognizing that I was thinking about it wrong. I was thinking about, how can this player help them rush the passer? How can this player
be a double digit sack guy for them? And not know he's the strong side edge ctter.
So my comp for him, let me tell you tell anything, Trey Flowers.
Yeah, I think that that's not a bad I mean, if he liked maxim I think ideally you know a lot of people that that have studied Keon White, I have said as a pass rusher, he's probably better as like a three technique or an inside.
That's the thing. If he passed strushes, I think it's gonna be from the interior, like him next to bar More on that interior rush, right.
But I think in their base nickel or base big dime defenses, he's gonna be your strong side edge center.
So here's why I like Keon White, and I'm with you on that. I think on early downs he's he's setting that edge, and then on passing downs you either have him on the edge, not as a pass rusher, but like just hold that edge. Don't let the quarterback get outside you, right, just keep the edge of that pocket tight.
But that's exactly who what his skill said.
I think that as he grows, there's the potential to kick him inside as a rusher, and just his athleticism in his motor next to Christian bar More in his motor would be a lot for teams handle now that's in step two. That's year two or year three right right now. The reason I like Keon White, and I've said this about some of the other players they've drafted. Yeah, six ' five, two eighty three. They have him as the the composite athletic grade that they give based on
all combine testing. He ranked fourth among edge rushers. Really like upper echeline. He's very wrong, he admitted on the call. He's like, you admit on the call that night. My technique needs to be better. He's only been playing defensive
end for three years. He was a tight end at Old Dominion, played tight end there for one year, moved to defensive end, played there another year at defensive end, sat out the COVID year, transferred to Georgia Tech, played as a reserve defensive end two years ago, and then last year had the breakout year. When I look at a guy like that and people go, oh, why did they get a guy that like can't play the position. There are guys who've been playing defensive end their entire lives.
He's been doing it three years and he still got drafted ahead of a lot of them. The progress he's made in three years. This is a guy that, in everything he said about the work ethic and all that, clearly a quick learner guy that's going to pick things up. He checks every single box of the things he can't coach. They just got to get him in the lab with Joe kim basically.
And if they do that and and and Covington.
And DeMarcus Covington as well, well, I'm because I'm thinking of like the hands Joe Kim, al.
He's got it. He has right now. Kean White has no pass rush plan, No, he has none. He just he's just gonna come off the ball. He's gonna put his big mits into you and he's gonna try to push you.
He wins purely power. That's what he does. But that's it. He has all of the tools to become a guy who can be a problem off the edge. It's just getting him there. Like you said, Demarkt, this is a bet on DeMarcus Covington. That's what this pick is. And
it's it's a guy I bet on, certainly. But again I give the Trey Flowers comp Like I think worst case scenario, key On White is big enough and strong enough that He's gonna set the edge in the run game and maybe against mobile quarterbacks, help keep them in the pocket. It's baseline. Which second round pick for a guy like that, I don't know, but like that's a useful player.
It's a useful player, especially if they're going in the direction I think they're going in.
But then to build, like why I'm excited about Kean White? When you texted me the night of the draft, you hated it? Yep, you weren't you based? Tell me if I'm wrong. You weren't looking at the ceiling. You saw him for who he is, not who he can be.
Yeah, I definitely was looking at what his film was now. And I would also just say I was thinking, like I tried to get at earlier. I was thinking, like where is where's the explosiveness off the line, Like how does when josh u j is not here in a year, right, how does this help them replace josh U?
I think you were about that in here.
And I also just think I was thinking about it wrong.
No, he's not. And that's the thing. He's that in a way. That was my initial instinct, And he's a josh u Ja replacement if anything, And it's still not a one for one. It's Anthony Jennings replacement. Yeah, he's on that side.
He's a probably more naturally a hand in the dirt player, yeah, than a stand up guy. But he's a more athletic, more hopefully more explosive, more upside all those types of things. But what he can do right now for them, yeah, is hold up the strong side, right, hold up blockers.
And there's not gonna be many guys that can just outpower them, right.
So you're gonna have you know, just in theory, you're gonna have probably the Joneses to his side, right, because the tight end will be over there. You'll probably have the Joneses to his side. You're gonna have somebody whether it's Dugger or Jalen Mills or whoever, playing that tight end stopper type role. You have Bentley as the mic, You're gonna have Mapu on the weak side, and you're gonna have Judon as the weak side edge rusher, right
because he's gonna away from the tight end. And just let jus you have any napkins over there with your sandwich or something I can write on No, Ju Judon's roles was and then obviously Christian Zales on the boundary against the X. What excites me the most about this is one it becomes more dynamic of the second level, which I think, which is what I was getting out
with the whole map. Who thing if free Judon is now gonna have like fifteen sacks again next year because he's not gonna have any double teams or anything like that on early downs, He's just gonna They're gonna allow you On to just tee off right because he's not
gonna have a lot of those edge responsibilities. And I'm not trying to pick on anybody, but it gets the Jilani to Viz and the Jwan Bentley's more in it either a natural spot or just less playing time, quite frankly, and I just think that that's where they need to get. And I put all these pieces together, and I think the two the two biggest things. If Marty Mapu can't do it, if he's not an NFL player, he doesn't
want to pick doesn't pan out. I do think that they could probably accomplish some of the same things with an Adrian Phillips, which cut with a Kyle Duggar, even with the Jabiel Peppers right that that he can do. So if he can't do it, then then we have
some alternatives. If this really has the potential to be like the best defense in the league on paper, just the way we just mapped it out, if Christian Gonzalez is as good as we think he is, right, because Christian Gonzalez is going to have no help over there, Like.
The idea is you're you're playing ten on ten.
Yeah, Christian Gonzalez is going to be on the backside on the boundary against the X receiver. He's probably gonna have post safety help in the middle of the field. And that's about it.
Give it pece of paper.
Let's let's chart this sun that's an actual piece. Well, we'll do this later so that that's where I'm at with this defense. That's why I just really got me. Once I connected all this in my head, I was like, oh my goodness, this could be really great. But it's a draft, so all these all these guys got to pan out right. But I think the beauty is is that Christian Gonzales and theory has that ability. And Keon White, I think personally his floor is already what I'm trying
to describe. And obviously the pass rush upside that becomes gravy, Like if he can do any of those things and that becomes great, I think. But at the bottom line is is that he can be that strong side edge player, and whether it's in a in a tilt, whether it's like a four to three, whether it's you know, they play that that role at three four where they have the stand up linebacker kind of as the fourth defensive
end on the field. Like, however, they can figure it from an alignment standpoint, I don't think it's really that to me is semantics, Like they'll figure that piece of it out and.
They'll probably do a little bit of all ultimately.
Yeah, but I really think that that's sort of the bottom line of where they're going with this defense. And I gotta tell you, like that gets me a little bit hot in bottle. So that's one of that thing real potential.
That's one other thing i'd add. And yeah, I like the way you kind of mapped it out there, And yeah, I think key On White takes Anthony Jennings and or Cheloni to buy off the field. Yeah, this defense is going to be complex. This is not going to be a simple never was going to be you know, all right man cover two, Cover three, you know, buzz, there is going to be layers to this, and we saw them do it late last year. Kind of get to
some of that. Remember we were talking about how they were kind of Joe burrowt some trouble with it, Josh Allen had some trouble with it. It feels like they saw that and said, all right, how can we add even more layers to this?
Yeah, So I think the most important thing is that you got the key on white piece of it is important because you're you're gonna have to stop the run with five guys. Yeah, because Mapu will help if he
if he hits a ceiling, like, he'll definitely help. But he's he's he's a downhill trigger type player, right, so if he sees it and he can fire downhill into the gap and blow the guy up on the way to the ball, he can do those types of things, but he's gonna get engulfed, like, you have to keep him clean and so kean White, Christian Barmore, probably Godshaw,
probably Dietrich Wise rotating in as well. Those guys are gonna have to do their their jobs of keeping of keeping things clean up front like that, those guys gonna have to take on blocks. They're gonna have to eat up blockers, they're gonna have to occupy, and they're gonna have to let the safeties and Mapu just run right. And that to me is is that's the roadmap to beat Josh Allen. And I think that more than anything
we talked about Patrick Mahomes, I mentioned Jalen Hurts. Just because the Eagles are on the schedule, the Patriots had to have gone into this draft thinking, if we don't compete better against Buffalo, then we're screwed. We're screwed. We're not gonna win the division. So they got their number one corner. They they got the missing pieces, I think,
to the front seven. And now they have on paper, if the philosophical change and all that argument that we were talking, if they're willing to do all that, then they have on paper a way to better defend Josh Allen. And ultimately that's the name of the game right.
Now, not just shush that just the mobile quarterbacks. You don't have to make it about him, the mobile, make it about made anybody. I made it about him, just and I tried to to as long as I could ignore that it's it is about him, No, it's about the kinds of quarterbacks that are coming into this league. Yes, it's not just him.
But he's in your division. They're not doing this is Aaron Rodgers. They're not doing this for Aaron Rodgers.
Aaron Rodgers runs around a lot, not in the same way, but he does.
I think they you know, they look at those games. You know, obviously the first one against Buffalo. They let's face it, they got blowed out in that game, but that was a lot of that was because the offense. That was sort of the tipping point and the boiling
over point for the offense. But even the game in Buffalo, and I don't totally disagree, but even the game in Buffalo, I'm sorry, a lot of people make that out like, oh, nahem Heines doesn't return those if Deem Heins doesn't return those kicks, and Josh Allen has two more possessions and who knows what he does with them? Right Like he could go mar March right down the field and score both times too. And the bottom line is in the second half, they couldn't stop him. They couldn't stop him.
So a lot of this stuff I think is is really exciting, and you know the piece of it. I would just say not to not to scapegoat them or not to you know, let them off the hook, I guess is a better way to put it. Not to let them off the hook for not going after more skilled players in this draft. But I do recognize that maybe they couldn't do it all in this draft, and now they kind of have the defense figured out and maybe twenty twenty four is the year that they worry
about the offense. I do think that that recognizes as well, Let's see how Mac rebounds and let's see what what Bill Brian does with him, and then maybe invest more in the offense. So there you go. We just mapped out the defense.
Yep, I special teams.
We'd have to do specialties. We also have some calls callscreen light lit up after we got down this this rabbit hole of of these defense. So let's let's take these calls real quick and then I'll let you go off about a specialists. All right, all right, Raj? Thanks? Oh yeah, he was on hold for like forty minutes. That's our fault. What's up? Noah? How you doing they good.
I was wondering if you guys would consider doing your own redraft where you kind of take the picks that they had and say who you would pick at those picks, and then I of them, maybe like a year from now, revisit and see how you guys did compared to Bill. I don't know if that's something you're allowed to do or not, but just how to throw.
It out there.
Yeah, that would be fun. Thanks Noah for the call. I guess now that we have the hindsight of knowing how everybody comes off the board on the board who is on the board, is have like a mock draft where we're just kind of guessing who was on the board. That might be a fun, like once it really dies down here, a little bit off season thing, but the next couple of weeks we got media availabilities. Ota is coming up. But yeah, I like the idea we could
we could maybe try to do something like that. All right, Todd, what's up?
Hey, Mike? Is a little bit where he went over each player group and kive whether it stayed the same, got better or worse. I like you guys to do that. And one of the things that shocked me was he kind of thought that the running back group got worse.
And I really.
Don't see much change in the running back We still have Romandre and our guy that was supposed to be our third down receiving guy is gonna come off of the injury list that we got him there too. So anyway, I think that would be an interesting thing to do, just go over the groups like he did and say whether it's the same, better or worse.
Thanks guys, Thanks tod.
Yeah, I'll do that real quick.
I like that. Maybe do that next week next week? All right, we save that for next week because we're running out of time and that we know we're gonna take two hours to do that, so let's do that next week. I love that idea. And now we're starting to get into like some of the real offseason shows, so begin to have something like that to do. Give me your takes on the specialists.
So I think they did well in terms of trading up for Chad Ryland and taking where they did. Yeah, they played the game. The Niners took Jake Moody ninety nine. Yeah, kickers are going. It's like in your fantasy football draft, right, nobody want to take a defense high, but one person's going to and then everybody has to start taking defenses because they're going. So I don't think they took Chad Ryland too high. Love his background, five year starter, four
years at Eastern Michigan, you Splinty Michigan. The conditions are not ideal for kicking. Not great at Maryland either. You know, he doesn't have the biggest leg in the draft. And look, I think they probably would have liked Dev Moody. He might have gone higher than they expected. But the thing about Ryland, he's really good from forty nine and in. He's one of these guys. When I say the intermediate, I don't mean he's bad in the short game, but
nobody really care. Like, yeah, of course he's good from nineteen to thirty yards. Everybody's good from nineteen to thirty yards. He's a guy that.
He's not gonna say it. Another kicker they drafted was not good anyware fair.
Look, he's maybe not as good from fifty plus as some other kickers in this draft, but his like thirty to forty nine is impeccable. And for people who want them to be more aggressive on offense, that might be a sign that they're not as worried about kicking fifty yard field goals because they're gonna go for it in those situations, right, I hope. So I like that pick Bryce Berenger. I thought they would like I like I thought they would like Corsic. There were three good punters
in this draft. They end up with the consensus all American and Bearrenger, big leg. He's one of these super mathy kickers where like he goes into the launch angle and the exit veilosophy of velocity. Yeah, and the the rotations per minute.
And things like that.
Well, Jake Bailey did that.
My guess is that he won't go into that type of stuff with the media.
So no, no, well, I don't think I'm gonna try. I'm gonna ask about it.
I don't know how public that's really gonna get, but yeah, go ahead.
Look, I think he's he's a good player. He's got a big leg too. They like punters like that, and then even going down to a mere speed might be able to play some corner in the NFL. He transferred from Georgia, and I don't fault guys for not getting on the field at Georgia because it's Georgia Yea had a decent year Michigan State last year. But he's like a He's gonna be an excellent special teams coverage guy. Isaiah Bolden, He's listed a corner if he's gonna play
on defense. Actually think he might be a safety. But is another guy that's going to be a standout checks all the box on special teams some of the other guys they drafted. I don't I know, you don't want to hear this. Marte Maphu. Look, whatever they end up having him do on defense, he's gonna play special teams and he's going to be very good at.
So Marii Mapu. If he doesn't pan out on defense at the very least, will be a great so.
My floor for him, and this is the absolute floor. This is the worst case scenario. Is Nate Ebner. Yeah, Nate Ebner was an amazing special teams I know nobody wants him to be that guy. But you get what I'm saying.
You're lucky that the other people aren't in this room right now.
They would have lost.
I know that's what I mean. I want to put words in his mouth, But Paul thinks he's basically going to be a special team.
You get my point, Thoughe, but look, they they revamped the special teams unit, which needed to be revamped. So to that extent, I think they did. They did well. Do we have to wrap it up right now because the two thoughts on the UDF phase.
Uh No, But I have one question for you. Uh does Ryland And I know you s yeah, but I know you said the fifty. I think the biggest thing with ry with with Folk last year. Yeah, like he just at the end of the season, his theleg was just dead, right, Like does Ryland? Is Ryland more of a weapon? Like I'm not saying he's justin Tucker, but like,
is he is he more of that? Like you know, once he crossed the fifty, like, you have a pretty good chance of kicking this ball through, especially in the weather, right, I think that's you know, we know he kicked at Maryland and was I think he was at Eastern.
Michigan, Michigan for four years.
Yeah, so he's kicking the weather. I'm not worried about that. But more what I'm worried about is range and and just does he have that ability to be a weapon where you know, three seconds left in the game and you got as far as you could. But here, you know, you're trying to line up for the field goal. It's fifty four or fifty three yards out? Like is he that type of guy?
So he has and I'm trying to add up the total total number here, Uh he hang on twenty six thirty six or seven three three, nine four nine, fifty nine fifty two two six is forty six forty five?
All right, so he has fortieth on your home Yes.
I know he has forty one attempts from forty nine yards and then in the last three years, forty nine attempts he hit forty seven of them.
Yeah, so he's money.
So he's that's it. Like he's not. But if it's a thing where like do we try the fifty three yard field goal or do we try to run one more play you might lean towards running one more playoff Like he doesn't have the biggest like, but when you get in his range, you're gonna feel pretty good about it. Like you're not what once you're within range, you're not gonna sweat it. Like there's some guys in the draft so and other people kicker people liked was Jack Pizlusny
from Georgia. In this class, Jack Plusney can hit a fifty five to fifty six yard field goal, but you not all the time, but like he can.
Do it, he's inconsistent.
But right forty five is gonna feel like fifty five. They feel kind of the same. You're gonna feel really good about Chad rolland from forty five. You're not gonna feel great at fifty five. But again, I don't think they care. I think they're more interested in, well, let's get in his range. Then that's basically what they've been with Nick fo exactly exactly. It's the same philosophy behind Nick Fole.
Yeah, so just one last thing. These two guys were at the Senior Bowl together. Yes, and there are some pictures out there of Barringer holding for Ryland I. One of the things that I didn't really recognize until I started covering the team. It's it's kind of interesting in a way, and this is like really niche So I don't think this is more of the U story, if anything, but those three guys the snapper, the holder, and the kicker, and that they end up being the long snapper, the punter,
and the kicker. Obviously, those three guys are like the three amigos during the football season, Joe Cardona, Jake Bailey and Folk. Let's just say on the whole writer polarity. When those guys are like glued at the hip, Yeah, they go, They're like a little three musketeer. They go team within the team, they go everywhere together. Yeah, and so I think that that's gonna go.
When I covered college football, there was a joke that when the punter and long snapper went out for punts, the kicker got lonely.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I guess here they have Matthew Matthew Slater's kind of an area call keep Ryland company.
But that's gonna be the interesting thing I think is that whole for the most part, that that whole operation has been pretty clean. Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see now that it changes pretty dramatically. It's two thirds, yeah that you know how that all goes. And plus if it's two rookies, right, you know how that all goes.
Well.
The fact they've worked even if it's a little bit, and they it sounded like they worked together a little bit before the Senior Bowl as well. The kicking camps and stuff. Yeah, there's value in that, and and I don't know that there's like long term value in that. But you mentioned the last kicker they drafted. He had an adjustment period, and that could have been any number of things. But a lot of the times for young kickers, you know, you got to you got to tell the
holder exactly how you want the ball. And by the way, it's not I want the ball like this, it's on this hash from this yardage. I want it like this, on this hash from this yardage like this. When it's windy, I want it like that. And then that turns into the holder then goes to the long snapper and says, all right, in this situation, put the ball here. In this situation, put the ball here, Snap it harder here, snap it softer there.
So that's my guy. Joe Houston, Patriots assistant special team right coach tends to do a lot of that.
So when you have two guys that already know, right, Bryce Berenger knows Chad Ryland wants the ball like this, like this, like this, that's a whole that's like they'll spend a week on that. That's probably this week it's the first week on the field. That's like a whole week. It's a whole big thing you just don't have to
really do now. Joe Cardona still got to get on the same page with both of them, because it's the same for punters, Like, all right, if we're on this hash, I want to hear if we're trying to do this kick, I want to hear. But that you talk about hitting the ground rolling, making easy for a rookie. Yeah, I think that makes it really easy.
Marian, did you expect to do ten minutes on the Kickers? He's totally tuned out. I love it absolutely, Kickers, I absolutely love it. All right, uh Udfa's you have one minute because I'm gonna kick us out if we if we don't rap soon, so, uh Malie Cunningham, I think is maybe we talk about him a little bit more in the next couple of weeks, once we get out there and see these guys in OTAs. But there's something there in terms of the athletic ability and the ball
carrying skill. I don't know how they use it. I don't know if they use it. I don't know if it matters at all. I don't know if he's Jamar Smith or he's a real player, right, Like I I don't know, but the one thing I can say about Malie Cunningham is that it would be nice to have him around as a scout team quarterback. Like that's like the bottom base line is that when they play the quarter Jalen Hurts right when the Eagles are on the schedule.
This is the guy you want. Marte Mapu chasing and proc yes so.
And hopefully running right through him. No, just kidding, don't hit the quarterback.
I look Cunningham. First of all, they didn't get Lamar Jackson, but they did get the guy that replaced him at Louisville. That's how long Elie Cunningham has been there. Experienced guy. Yeah, he's different when he has the ball in his hands. Yeah, he's one of these guys that just kind of like to Mario Douglas from Marcus Jones, he look different. The report from NFL dot Com that he's open to changing positions is fascinating to me because I've never seen the
guy run around. I've never seen the guy runner out. I don't know, but like I just I want the ball in his hands. I want the ball in his hands out of it.
I understand and that you and all of like dark Patriots Twitter, like the deep Patriots Twitter people, I feel in the same way. I just I would like the Patriots as as a team offensively to have receivers receive, and running backs run and tight ends catch and block. Like okay, oh my god, Like let's just use people where they're supposed to play, because we have good enough people that we don't need to make Malie Cunningham a thing.
Well, okay, like, how long was Edelman's development? It's like three years? Yeah, right, Maybe it's not this year, but he's gonna stick around. Maybe it's just a scout team quarterback. Maybe it's just.
Something like the squad scout team quarterback and if they want to work out on the off on the side on receiving drills and stuff like that.
But I'll say is he's a very experienced guy. He's a highly intelligent guy. Yeah, he's different as a ball carrier. They did, let's not forget, they did try to do this last year. They signed to Eric King as u DFA who had played both his quarterback and receiver. He is better than Derek k Well, Derek King never got hurt and like didn't make it to the spring. I think they're they're gonna try him at something now. He did also play No, no, no, I want you to
take that back right now. Don't get that's so insulting to Malie Cunningham. He is another Can we just have Danny is closer to me athletically that he is Timnner.
You just have a team for once offensively, where putting Marcus Jones on offense isn't like the greatest thing. We just have guys that are just.
Build it around him. I'm not saying build it around him. I'm just saying it's a thing. By the way, he played defensive back at a high level in high school too, So I.
Don't know what so now So now he's Julianetel.
No, he's no. I'm just saying they can put him. I think we're gonna see him A bunch of we might not see it. Might be what they're doing. They were in the close practices. Yeah, quarterback, running back, receiver, defensive back, special teams. Like, my god, they're gonna try him everywhere because he's such a good athlete. He's so smart.
I hear you.
Why not.
I don't. There is no reason to why not. I keep on going.
You just hate fun and you don't want to talk about.
Keep on going. Back to the same point of like, the Patriots need to get to a point where we're not counting on Malie.
I don't think they're casually being something, but I'm not saying counting.
They are not. Internally I doubt they are. I'm talking about and I'm sorry. I don't need to pick on the fans, but I'm talking like this is like Jeff Thomas to me.
Right, Like it's like Jeff Thomas.
No, No, Kashan but is better than Jeff Thomas.
I know it's closer.
No, I'm just like Kyshean. But is Malcolm Mitchell here?
Listen, you don't need to get don't get your hopes of from Alie Cunningham, who knows what it becomes. But it's a really good signing.
You're not gonna have to worry about me, I know.
So you get a he's gonna win a Super Bowl MVP, and you're gonna be sitting here saying I can't believe we had to spend that off season talking about him.
Just again. Jalen had some.
He's just a really smart, really athletic guy. The more of those guys you have around the building, the better. That being said, I do think they're gonna extend the udf A streak this year. I don't think it's gonna be him, because, like you said, I think he's a practice squad guy. Yeah, I think it's gonna be Johnny Lumpkin, the tight end. Yeah, six six, two sixty six athletic guy. Not really, I thought he was athletic. Has he has
like fourteen career catches in three years. Yeah, doesn't mean alright, he's a he's a really good block he's big. Yeah, he's big. Now, I think they might like Scotty Washington. Yeah, that's gonna be the battle for the third tight end.
But the battle Scotty Washington versus Camp Johnny Lumpkin. And again, I'm sorry, but like that sounds like a name that Bill makes up when he's like Johnny from Foxborough High can make this play. Sounds like the name Felger and Mass makeup. Yeah, or they got Johnny Lumpkin out there playing tight end. But no, he's a big guy. He's a blocker.
You remember guy named Michael Williams.
Yeah, I remember Michael Williams.
That's the cop to me. Mike always played tackle in Alabama's a tackle. I think Johnny Lumpket. They're gonna have him put on fifteen twenty pounds of muscle. They're gonna get him up to like two seventy two seventy five. He's gonna be the blocking half of Darnell Washington basically.
Okay, look, if that's what he is, then they could use that player.
He's gonna catch like ten passes his whole career. Remember, and look, they didn't use this player, right, But remember with Dwayne Allen.
I've never on video for this episode because like the two of us are just laughing through this right now.
Remember what Dwayne Allen was here, and I think they mis used Dwayne all But they threw him like ten passes the whole two years time.
Just he'd be wide opening the flat and Brady just wouldn't even look at him.
He's like, I'm gonna why, I'm gonna throw the ball to that guard? What do you want me to do? But you know, for what he was, he's actually bigger than I remember, six four to two sixty.
Yeah, he was. He was like the block he got in.
Two years here in uh twenty nine games, he was targeted twenty six times. Oh my god, that's just that's what Johnny Lumpkin is gonna be. Johnny love, but I actually like his chances to make the team.
I do, all right, So there you have it that we went Johnny Lumpkin deep in this podcast. So that's how you know what you've been listening to Catch twenty two. Alex and I will be back next week. We're gonna do I love that idea from Todd to North Carolina. So we're gonna go through the whole roster, position by position, what got better, what got worse, Maybe talk about some of the fifty three man projections and roster battles that
we're looking forward to, and not before long. I don't think we have an exact date yet of when media availability start.
We don't know which ones we're gonna get.
Yeah, but we usually get like what three or four late, So we'll have plenty of content coming here on Patriots Catch twenty two. So keep it right here next Thursday, same time, same place. Thanks for listening for Alex Bartham, Evan Lazar We'll see you guys next week. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, please rate and review us.
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