This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bar.
Lazar.
Everybody nailed it has always bara.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars Now he did also play no, No, I want you to take that back right now. Don't get sult that's so insulting to Malie Cunningham. He is another. Can we just Danny is closer to me athletically.
That can we just have a team where Malik Cunningham is not gonna make or break the season? That's what I think I said after after that, I think that's what you said.
Why does Mollie Cunningham have to be a thing?
Right?
Why does it have to matter? Okay, but but there's the difference between do you.
Think do you think the Eagles who are on the TV behind me? So that's why I just thought of it. Did you think that Eagles are going into training camp thinking about the UDFA quarterback that they might switch to wide receiver who might switch to running back, and they're going in there saying this guy could be it. This could be the first that puts us over the Chiefs next year. First of all, because they have DeVante Smith and they have Jalen Hurts playing quarterback, so they they
have first world problems. This is we're better than this. First of all, we're better than this.
First of all, the Eagles quarterback that they might switch to whatever is a quarterback who might switch to tight end. He wasn't drafted, not this year, but he wasn't drafted. His name is Tyree Jackson, who at one point was one of your favorite playoffs. So you would talk about Jackson.
He was you buff Cam Newton, Yeah, like he was. He was that level.
There's somewhere out there in the internet. I don't have the picture anymore. Somewhere on Twitter. Something is a picture of like six foot nine Tyree Jackson standing next to five foot seven.
And it's kind of like the people that have seen like the Trent Brown Mike Reese photo. It's similar to.
That, but it's better because you don't have the steps tool. The other thing is, I don't think anybody's sitting here saying Malie Cunningham is gonna make or break this season. But he's a fun story. Yes he is. No, I'm sorry it is. It is a fun story. He's a very athletic guy, totally unknown how they're gonna use him. It's a little interesting. It's a lot, Evan, you know this as well as anybody. Do you know what's interesting out It's a long spring, it's a long training camp.
You can't just talk about the top ten players on the roster. You gotta find those other stories.
Okay, but do you know what's interesting? Keishan Butte is interesting to Mario Douglas is interesting, Evan, there's Wily Cunningham is not interesting. Thirty days of training camp. We're gonna get another six spring practices, three preseason games.
The indoor practice is gonna be the schedule tonight. There's gonna be we know, well, no, this is the this is the schedule leading up to that, there's gonna be plenty of time. We got a lot of time to talk about a lot of players. Nobody's saying we can't talk about those guys.
We're gonna talk about a lot of players to day. We're gonna preview kind of the reset, I think is a better word. Reset, the offensive side of the ball play a little better, worse or sam. This is an idea that I think Mike Reese did it first, so we're kind of taking it from Mike, but it's a good idea we're going to do. We're gonna do offense today and then next week we'll do defense because Alex and I can get long winded and if we try to do both sides of the ball, we'd be here
for three hours. So that's the goal is to do offense this week, defense next week. We will touch a little bit on some schedule stuff. We're in kind of a we're in a little bit of a gray area here, Alex that we can talk about the things that have already been announced, we can talk about some rumors, but we're a little it's a little bit of a touchy subject.
And well, look, the reality is, and we truly appreciate everybody who watches the pod live or listens to it live, and we thank you. But there's a lot of people who, you know, maybe we'll listen to it tonight or tomorrow. At that point we'll know the schedule.
So right, and it's not exactly it doesn't have a very good shelf life to talk about schedule rumors.
As long as the show is just one day a week, we kind of want to make it as ever green as possible and discussing schedule possibilit when the schedule will come out tonight. You know, Kills Kills is still six hours.
So a couple of things about the schedule. First of all, just for me personally, not being you have the whole thread. It's not this team, it's.
Not that I call it schedule sudoku.
That the fact that I don't need to worry about that anymore because we just don't do that around here is actually refreshing. I'm actually glad that I am not sitting here refreshing my phone every thirty seconds. Thing, what game do we get leaked this time? The second thing is is and I really genuinely want to put this out there for two reasons. One, I want to give kudos to the people that worked on our schedule release.
That's all I'm gonna say that worked on our schedule release, because I'm not gonna get in trouble of telling giving any hints of what it is worked on our schedule release, because I'll tell you this has been months in the making and it took.
A ton of work.
You know a lot of the people that were involved. It's it's really going to be a cool thing. And I think you fans are gonna love it. So I want to give all those guys props that and gals that worked on it, because it's really gonna be awesome stuff. And the second, the last thing I'll say about the schedule is we do know a couple of things that we think we know right and one of them in concretely is obviously cold patriots in Frankfurt in Germany. One
of the things that I'm gonna find fascinating. Though, just as a general topic on the schedule. We talked a little bit about this offline yesterday. OLEX. Last year was my first year. I missed one game Miami. Remember I had COVID, couldn't go to Miami, But they traveled for the whole week to Miami, and we traveled the whole week to Vegas in the preseason. Yeah, we traveled the whole week for Miami. Then we traveled that week out out west with Vegas.
And Arizona, Arizona then Vegas.
This year, we already know we have Germany, so that's already gonna be time change, long flight, probably four or five days out there. I would assume that's just a guess. I'm not saying anything. I do wonder based off of how this schedule is structured. I'm really fascinated to see if they maybe go back a little bit on all of the let's call it extended travel, right, the extended stays not. Look, you can't control who you play. We know that the opponents. You can't control that. You gotta
go out to Vegas this year again. You gotta go to Denver, gotta go to Dallas. You gotta make those trips that that's what's on the schedule. By the point I'm getting at from a competitive standpoint is, I'm not one hundred percent sure that all of the extended travel that we did last year truly benefited the team. And I think you can go one way or in the
other with these things. I think sometimes those those West Coast trips where we stayed out at in Arizona at a great resort out there and in Tucson, I think it was for the like that could be a team bonding. You could rally around it, everybody could really you know, you could sing Kumbaya before bed every night, and all of a sudden, you're you go on a run because
you you you did that. I think what the fourteen team right, I think had that it was like Chargers or something like that out out west, and they did that. There are some pockets of this schedule that are set up that you could potentially get one of those trips again. We know the rumors that they could be doing quite a bit of joint practices on the road during the summer,
in the preseason in training camp. I'm interested to see how they set up this schedule with those West Coast games or the you know, the time zone change games. How much of that are we are we gonna be staying out there for an extended period of time, both selfishly because I want to know what my life's gonna look like, but also from a team competitive standpoint, I do wonder if they reverse course on that a little bit.
I know that we've both heard in various ways Miami the trip out west late in the year that it's threw some people off. It did it threw some people off. So I'm interested to see how that goes with this schedule this year. Are there any like things in the schedule that you look for in particular, though, Alex, like I know the bye week obviously is a big one. Primetime games but is there one thing in terms of trends or anything like that that you're you're kind of honing in on.
So every year, the only thing I want from schedule release, because we know the opponent's right, the one thing I want above all else is week twelve by And I know that's not like the ideal bye week. I Earnie or Adams said in the schedule release last year it was week ten. I think like that nine to twelve range is probably the best. But yeah, it's Thanksgiving. Be nice to have Thanksgiving off?
Also selfish?
Well, yeah, no, it is totally selfish. It is on my bucket list to go to the Iron Bowl Alabama. This is what is like the only way I'll ever be.
Able to do for the Patriots in terms of the competitive I look for. And you're just talking about how you want to go to the Iron Ball. So you hope that the bye week is the week of the Iron Bowl?
No, just in terms of no, honestly, this is like kind of the way I already know who they're playing the stuff early look at. Yeah, obviously du bye week and how many weeks are going to row? Are you on the road? When do they go down to Miami, but the stuff like specific to this year, more out of the box stuff, because that's what's more fun. Anyway, Jillette Stadium hosting Army Navy December ninth, which would be
week fourteen. I can't wait for that, so but like say it seriously because it's I'm also a company man, So I can't wait for that. You going, I don't know if I have to go?
Do I have to go? You should go.
It's incredible. I was there last. Everybody should go. It is unbelievable. And I'm not a company man. I'm saying it is unbelievable.
You're kind of company.
So anyway, that December ninth, Week fourteen. Yeah, in theory, you could have back to back, like they could play that game here Saturday and the Patriots could play Sunday. I don't think that would be there. They didn't Washington a couple of years ago.
But no bigger slap in the face to Bill Belichick than putting the Patriots on the road the week of So that's what I'm saying.
There's no way we're on the road for that, or is it like do they play Thursday night?
Right?
So he's just back and he can enjoy it, you know something like that.
I whatever the way the schedule is structured, Bill is gonna be at that shit.
So I think that means either home game Sunday or Monday, or just a game Thursday Homer road right right, because if they're on the road Thursday, he'll be back. They'd be fine.
Yeah, we come back right after the game.
Some of the other intricacies. Do you know the stat about the Niners from last year? No, the Niners teams last year the week after facing the Niners were zero to sixteen. The Chiefs won after they played the Niners, made a bye week in between. Okay, so no team one after playing the Niners. Whatever you want to make of that, you can make of it. But the Patriots and Niners have five common opponents this year, the entire NFC East and Pittsburgh, So obviously you know if they
play a team week one, that wouldn't count. But you know, see where those teams are in the schedule. Are they the week after the Niners? And I thought I had one other thing, but I guess that's it. It's gonna be awesome.
Man, I'm horrible, all right. So we'll keep an eye on Twitter, as we always do. If there is an official, not a rumor not a leak, we're not going to touch those. But if there is an official announcement of any kind about a Patriot game, well we'll obviously break in and talk about that. We're going to get to the better worse for same. I'm gonna take this call from Patty from Agawan first though, and then we can clear the calls and and things like that, and then
we can we can get into better worse same. So we don't have any any breakups in the in our flow here. So Patty, what's going on? Man? How you doing?
What's going on?
Jan They.
So, I know Todd in North Carolina said at last week, if you guys were going to do position by position breakdown, and I guess if if you do, I'm just I'm interested to hear how you guys would evaluate Mac and Bailey in the quarterback position and like where you would rank that in terms of position groups on the team. And if you feel like Max with Bill O'Brien, I mean, he doesn't have the number one guy, that quote unquote number one guy. Do you see him surpassing what he
did in this rookie year two. That's all I got, guys.
Thanks for the call, Patty. It's a good segue that sets this up perfectly, because I was going to start with the quarterbacks for better, worse, same, and I was read I'm gonna read off everybody on the roster so that everybody knows all the names. I think everybody knows the names on this one. Mac Jones, Bailey Zappy, Trace McSorley currently still under contract in the quarterback room, and I do have Malie cunning him with the quarterback.
Until we see him run around. I think he's a quarterback, so we'll find out. And that's another thing, kind of housekeeping thing. In a couple of weeks, we will be out at Ota, so if he's with the receivers at that point, then I will obviously move him from the quarterback room to the wide receiver room. But right for right now, I'm Elie cutting him there, Alex, Are the Patriots better or worse or the same at quarterback? I think it's kind of hard to say that.
They're better or worse when it's it's basically the same two guys, right it's Mac Jones and Bailey Zappy. I mentioned Bill O'Brien and kind of getting back to twenty twenty one or maybe even better for mac Jones. So I guess you could make that argument that just by nature of Bill O'Brien being here, that the performance or the play of the quarterback room should be better. But the names of the names, like the players themselves, are
the same for the most part. But I'm willing to say better because of Bill O'Brien, So maybe that's a little bit of a cop out.
So I mean, yeah, I wasn't thinking about it in that sense. I was thinking about just the players. I think the quarterback play will be better with yello'brien. If I had to just evaluate the room, I'd actually say a little worse because they lose that veteran presence of Brian Hoyer.
Yeah, I agree here, what you're soa They ask me, how much does that matter? I'm gonna I don't know how much it mattered to them, because Brian Hoyer to should have mattered. Brian Hoyer to me feels like somebody that they kind of viewed as someone that was asking too many questions.
Who's them?
What do you mean? Who's them?
I think the other quarterbacks appreciated having him there. Let me put it that way.
I don't disagree with that, Okay, I don't know. I think some of the pushback on the offensive coaching staff, which we are both on the record saying very warranty, yeah, okay, but I think some of the pushback on the offensive coaching staff last year came from certain guys that are no longer here.
That's fair, But yeah, I don't wouldn't necessarily say it was the right move to get rid of those guys.
Okay, that's fair.
Having Brian Hoyer in that room, a veteran quarterback who's seen a lot of football, I think brought inherent value. How much value you can say, it's not a lot. That's fine. But and again i'm parsing here, like really splitting here is here?
Yeah?
Right? Like if I have to pick one, you know how, I also try to do the outside of the box Amsons. I'm actually trying to stick to the exercise this time. If I have to say better or worse, I think it's worse because I think, even if it was very minimal, there was value in having Brian Horror's experience in that room. They don't have it anymore. That's pretty much Yet. I like what McSorley, and we'll see with Cunningham bring his
potential scout team guys. But you can you know they had corners playing scout team quarterback to get that athletic guy in there, right. I think Brian Hoyer's knowledge and experience is valuable.
That's fair. That's fair. I didn't really think of it that way, because again, I don't think the the ambiguous day. I don't necessarily think they think of it that way based off of last So I'm just thinking why because they it cost them money to.
Not to be here, But I don't think it was the right move.
That's fair.
And I'll say I I am and you you so your factor getting a lot of the coaches, Bill O'Brien. I am just looking at the four guys in the room or however at whatever position. I'm just looking coction of right. You know, when when you know they go into that meeting, not who's at the front of the room leading it, who's sitting in the chairs. Yeah, and that is you went from Mac Jones, Bailey, Zappy, Brian Hoyer, Garrett Gilbert to Mac Jones, Bailey, Zappy, Trace McSorley, Malie Cunningham.
Those are un comparing A to B.
That's it, okay, So so we don't get too caught up in the in the minutia here and as we tend to do. I guess the other question with the quarterbacks before we move on is do you feel as though we will get out to training camp in August and it will look anything like a competition. Like remember in twenty one we were both here covering the team. Mac Jones and Cam Newton were clearly in a competition, and I would actually say that they they tried their best to make it look like Cam was QB one
and it wasn't really a competition. But what would happen just so that when we get into this people will remember us kind of breaking this down, Cam would get that first drive. So whenever Cam, whenever they broke into team, like whenever it got into eleven on elevens or even seven on seven, we all had to say that Cam
Newton was the first quarterback in the huddle, right. But Cam would lead a single drive, He'd run like four or five plays, and then Mac Jones would run the next twenty five or whatever the number it ended up being and you'd get to the end of the day and Cam would have attempted twelve passes in practice and mac Jones would have attempted thirty in practice. And that was our first in a lot of people's first taste because Brady was here and there was no quarterback competition.
In the summer. But the most we did it with backup quarterback, right, Remember was it Stidham and nineteen.
Yeah, and I was I was here for the COVID year in twenty with with Cam and Dam but that was but that was also just neither one of them were great. It was kind of just picking at straws. So what do you think that this would resemb because
now I think we know a little bit. Okay, if Bailey is reps wise, if they're about even and a he's throwing with some regulars, you know, if he's breaking the huddle and it's Taekwon Thorton going one direction and Kendrick Bourne going like right, you kind of have an idea of all, right, you know this is sort of a competition. Do you feel like that's gonna happen this summer or do you feel like they're gonna commit to Mac and we're gonna go down that.
Right, I think they're gonna go back and forth, and you just hit on it. It's not necessarily about the number of reps. Yeah, And it was easier to explain away in twenty twenty one because oh, Mack's a rookie, he needs the reps. Cam's been here, right, and if you looked at.
That's how they got us though.
Well, but even though Mack was running more reps, he was running mostly with the second team, so's yeah, he threw twice as many passes, but he was out there with the second offense right right. None of the starter or all the starters had half as many reps as the backups. Yeah, so like it's it. Maybe from a bird's eyeview, it looked like a competition, but it sort of clearly wasn't until that practice against the Giants when Cam missed it, Mac tore him up.
Right.
Yeah, it's a little less clear this year because you can't necessarily come in and say, well, Bailey needs the
reps right right, about the same experience. So it's gonna be harder for them to hide whether or not it's competition, because the other thing is, you know, it's gonna come down to who's working with who, Right, If mac Jones runs ten reps and Bailey's Appy runs twenty reps, but mac Jones is throwing to Devonte Parker and Juju Smith Schuster, and Bailey's Appy's throwing to you know, Trey Nixon, right, Well, okay, he ran twice as many reps, but he's throwing guys
aren't gonna make the team, yeah, Right, So it's it's always it's gonna be about who they're throwing to, not necessarily the number one.
And I would also say a dead giveaway for people that come out to training camp, and hopefully there will be plenty of those opportunities this summer. The offensive line, because it's starting five, is the starting five, right, And and I know that we're not necessarily supposed to report these things specifically, but like, who's David Andrews snapping the ball to?
Yeah, if David Andrews ain't snapping the ball to Bailey's Appy, they both getting steps from guys named Andrews.
If it's Jake Andrews or it's co Russiers James Farrence, and David Andrews is attached to Mac Jones as himp as the only center that snapping the ball to Mac Jones all summer long, then we know who's QB one, right like that, those are the types of things that we look for as well. I actually come on the other side of this. I think that this is gonna be and this is just gut. I have no inside information, but I think that this is gonna be a commitment
to Mac Jones at least to start the season. And I think the only way that you can properly do that. And I say that because, let's face it, we both talked about this enough, but they did not properly handle
the position last year, right. The only way that you can properly commit to Mac Jones in the summer and really try to hit the ground running and basically act like last year didn't happen and just kind of make it feel as much as you can, like you're picking up from the end of twenty twenty one and you're going into you know, a fake year. You're two, but year three is to really just go down that road and not make it as any sort of question. Now,
I think that that's how it's gonna start. If Mac Jones gets into the regular season and struggles, then I think that that will open the door for Bailey Zappy. But I think it's mac Jones's job to lose. I think it's his job to lose for the time being. I think year three of Mac Jones with Bill O'Brien here is a big year for the organization to figure out what they have in mac Jones. So I don't think it's going to be a truly full scale competition of any sort in training camp, and I think that
they're committed to Mac. I think that Bill Belichick tried to when Greg Bdard asked him during the draft, it was it bouquets of flowers, throw it at mac Jones and no, not necessarily, but I do think that he tried to say some things to kind of squash a little bit of that, you know. And I think that there's gonna be a real quick, clear message once you get out to camp. And the last thing I'll say about the quarterbacks, and you can weigh in on this too,
but I feel really strongly about this. Isn't that what you want? Like as a Patriots fan, isn't what you want is for us to get out there, even in the spring, even in a couple of weeks and see Mac Jones like commanding things like Mac Jones being a leader, Mac Jones having that swagger back, having that remember even before I know everybody and I myself include sometimes falls into this, Travis saying Mac wasn't on board with what was going on last year from the jump in the
spring he was. He was kind of bouncing around. Remember he's making some good downfield throws, obviously without pads and a live pass rush. And then we all learned as soon as the pads came on in August that kind of went out the door. But isn't that what you want? Don't you want Mac to take the QB one job by the reins and the bowl by the horns, whatever you know, cliche you want to use and not have question marks about that position. I feel like that's a
big thing for me. Is like a lot of people, I think just love the drama, and I get that we're in that business right of the drama feeds the beast. But isn't it better as a Patriot fan than Mac Jones actually works out and has a good year and like is the man from the jump and there's no questions and we're not in August talking about quarter because if we're in August talking about quarterback competitions, and this is my whole take on this, Right, they don't have
a quarterback. Right, Guess what, they don't have a quarterback. It's not Bailey Zappy, it's they don't have a quarterback. So I hope that Mac Jones proves that they do have a quarterback. That's that's what I'm optimistic about.
It's the easiest path forward.
Yeah, and I hope that's the case. So that's your quarterbacks. You think it's gonna be a little bit of competition though you think that door is is old.
I think they want it to be. I think Mac can win it, but I think they want it to be. Yeah, you think we've gone through this whole summer and they're gonna come out and Max's gonna be the young question starter or sorry, this whole winter of.
I like to think that cooler heads will prevail. Maybe that's just the optimist in me, but I like to think that cooler heads are gonna prevail. And what you just mentioned, it's the cleanest path, it's the cleanest path forward. And I think last year and I hope that they would agree. Last year, the Bailey Zappi, the Zappi fever. Let's face it, Zappi fever did nobody any favors. It did nobody any favors. It didn't make the team better, It didn't make Mac Jones better, It didn't make any
of it better. It caused drama, and quite frankly more importantly internally, it caused friction. Right, So that did nobody any good. So going and setting up that again, and I think that was what was so bonkers about the situation last year. We always go back to the Chicago game. They set it up like they did it to themselves to an extent to create all the noise about the quarterbacks.
Oh yeah.
So avoiding that this year by you know, coming out in camp and kind of putting the weight behind Mac Jones, I think is important. All right, let's move on to the running backs. And if you want to weigh in, eight five five, Pats five hundred is the phone number you can email in web radio at Patriots dot com. And uh, we'll love your opinion on all this this stuff. And I know some people acus don't feel the same
way I do about Mac Jones. They want to see they want to see the competition, so maybe maybe you feel that way. All right, Uh, moving on to running backs, This one was interesting because there is some turnover here, you know, maybe a little bit more significantly than the top of the quarterback depth chart, Grimandra Stevenson, the guy we just spoke to this morning, James Robinson, Pierre Strong,
Kevin Harris, Time Montgomery, and JJ Taylor. So historically speaking obvioust they keep four running backs.
Yeah, four guys. It's been three a time, so because they'll throw somebody in the practice squad.
But four guys I think is safe to assume out of this group because I think there are gonna be four rosterable running backs to come out of this group. We know Ramondre Stevenson's a lock. I would like to think we can confidently say that Pierre Strong is probably a lock too, just because of his draft status last year and cutting a fourth round pick in year two seems a little bit unrealistic. But from there it's really
anybody's game. And I look at a guy like James Robinson, who I think could add some things to this team, and I'm a little you know, I'm interested to see what he's got in training camp. I think that he could help. James Robinson has basically no guaranteed money given to him on his contract. He's a very, for lack of a better word, cutable player at the moment. If he doesn't look reinvigorated, if he doesn't look like he has any juice, he's a player that they could move
on from pretty easily. So I look at this and I think Ramondre Stevenson and Pierre Strong are really the only two guys that I feel like are definitely going to be on this team. I think the three and four spot are kind of up from grabs at that point, so better worse are same At the running back position, I.
Think worse, you know, starting off, there's a chance they end up better because if Pierre Strong emergence is a pass catching back, now you don't have to run Ramondra Stevenson in the ground like they did last year, so he's fresher down the stretch. You have a good pass
catching back. If Kevin Harris develops, you have that, you know, bowling ball short yardage, secondary, early down back behind Ramandre and then you just need one of James robinsoner Time Montgomery to develop as an option right as just a depth player, and I don't think any of that's unrealistic. But coming in they lost Damien Harris, they don't have a clear cut pass catching back. They have candidates between Strong and Robinson and Montgomery, but that's got to be
sorted out. So I'll say initially they're worse, but there's upside there. That's kind of where I'm at with it.
Yeah, I think that I don't want to say they're better because I do feel like Damien Harris was a good patriot and I don't want to undersell him in terms of what he brought to the table. I know he was injured a lot the last couple of years, especially last year, that that hurt right, that that hurt his patriot tenure. I actually love I criticized their roster management a lot. I actually really love how they handle running backs. I think they do it exactly how you
should do it. For the most part, third and fourth round picks, recycle them every three or four years. Never get married to any of these guys, right, You never you know, commit you know, big money dollars or years to a running back. I think that they do a nice job of recycling that position because for the most part, they understand that that position is replaceable. Like those guys are kind of a dime a dozen and you can
kind of cycle through them. And that's that's what we know now in today's NFL and the way that things work nowadays. So I like how they handle the running backs position. The one guy that I'm really bullish on, I am. I really think Pierre Strong is going to
be something. I think we saw enough, especially in that Era Zone A game obviously, but even in the Raider game he had a couple of good carries too, and that West Coast swing last year for me to be optimistic that Pierre Strong is going to bring something to the table. I want to see Pierre Strong on the field.
And I look at a guy like Bill O'Brien and I, you know, him, being the coach that he is, he loves to think about matchups like how like who's a problem, Like who's a matchup weapon, Who's a guy that can win foot races or is so quick that a linebacker or safety is not going to be able to cover them in the slot or you know, coming horizontally across
the field. This guy is gonna win races this way or that way or whatever, and I look at a guy like Pierre Strong, and I look at that forty time and everything, and I just just get that guy the football and try to get that guy into space a handful of times a game. It's similar to how everybody feels about Marcus Jones or like Taekwon, right, just just get the ball in their hands and see what they can do with it. I think Pierre Strong is going to to be a really good player for them
this year. I'm optimistic that he is just following in a very similar path to a lot of other running backs in that mold, right, the Shane Vereens, the James Whites, those players, and we'll see him. Your two really take off and you.
Make a good point there. Sorry to cut your nose, but I've seen a lot of people say, well, if they were good, the Patriots would have played in last year. Yeah, not necessarily. I know they needed a running back last year. They did. They played Romandre Sevenson way too much. But
this is just what they do. Even in twenty nineteen, I don't remember who it was, but a couple guys got hurt and they still didn't play Damien Harris, who was a rookie at the time, Like they I forget what they did, but they went out of their way to not play rookie Damien Harris, And that was kind of the case last year. I feel like they went out of their way, right, and.
Then Zon had good games.
And that's what I was gonna say, right from what we did see, and I'm not saying they're gonna both come in and be Pro Bowlers right right, right, but from what we saw, I'd say they they handled themselves. They looked at the least capable. Yeah, So I don't have if you have, like actual football reasons to write them off. I guess we could have that discussion call in, but yeah, simply saying well, they didn't play last year, so they're not good. That's really not how it generally
works in New England. If you're a rookie running back, unless you were picked in the first round or your name's were Andre Stevenson, you don't play. You mentioned James White fourteen touches as a rookie, Yeah, and I remember people were riding him.
On Stoverreen was similar, right, Like.
Here's a couple more. I think he had like fifteen.
But he didn't play a ton.
He didn't play a ton as a rookie. But the James White one I always go back to because I remember people were thinking like that, you're the use of whatever it was, third fourth round pick on this guy doesn't play as a bust ye as a fourth round you know, we could barely get on the field last year. They turned out okay.
Right, So I'm optimistic about Pierre Strong, and I think that in general, you gotta hope that at least one of those guys Harris or Strong ends up being a good player for you that should at least, at the very least be able to back up and spell Ormandra Stevenson. Right, because if you go back and look at the draft last year running back, if those guys can't play, then they missed badly at that spot. I mean, it's not
just Isaiah Pacheco in the seventh round. Oh that was my guy, right, So you know the guy down in Houston was a damn Damian here peers right around that range too. There's a bunch of guys there, and if they got one of the guys that can't play, and I'm not I think Pierre Strong can play I think Pierre Strong can play too, so I'm not saying that he can't, but if they got one of those guys that can't play, then we got some questions to ask.
So they Pierce was not on the board for them, at least they took Pierre Strong in the fourth round, like late fourth round. He went early. They missed Hassan Haskins for Michigan, who's good, but not that kind of player. Tyler Aljeer from BYU, I mean, these are power backs, these aren't receiving backs, but they're both good players. A couple more went than they took Kevin Harris, Tyler Batty I liked, he's in the USFL now though, Trestan Ebner I liked. I think he's yeah, he's still on the Bears,
and uh, who else? And then Isaiah pe Go in the seventh.
Round, right, So I guess Isaiah, but Checko is really the one.
Especially everybody missed him, but that's the one.
Pierre Strong and Isaiah Pacheco, they both had tied for the fastest forty in the draft, right and running back, so if you're looking for that speedback that those were kind of your option. So it was sort of him or it was Checko, But I'm not going down that road because I think he can play. Montgomery and James
Robinson I think are interesting players for different reasons. I think Montgomery is sort of this mythical creature to a lot of Patriots fans because frankly, we we hyped him up a lot in the in the training camp get it out training camp last year, he had a good camp,
and there's a lot of time. Yeah, there's a lot of talk about him being a contributor and somebody that was going to step in, maybe not on a James White level of production, but maybe something like a Brandon Bolden level of production, right, somebody that could at least
hold down that receiving back role. And he had some versatility because he played wide receiver and running back in his career in Green Bay and New Orleans had a similar system the way they use their running backs in the past game with some conversion there from from his year before that. So I still am not completely out on time Montgomery being a contributor, and I think James Robinson the biggest question with him. It's kind of similar when we get to wide receiver here in a second week.
Yeah, good calls, splitting up offensive defense, cut to forty and we haven't even gotten a receiver Kishan Butte.
It's about injury, right, Like James Robinson tore his achilles two years ago, you hope that a year and a half removed from that achilles, he's gonna get the juice back. But last year with the Jags and the Jets, quite frankly, he did not have the juice. He did, he just
didn't have any any burst to his run his running game. Yeah, So if he's not gonna have that, then I think that he could be somebody that ends up not making this team simply just because he he just doesn't have it right right now, A guy like Kevin Harris I think should make the team over both those guys that I just mentioned as well.
The other thing you have to remember, and this is like the whole new thing that's really changed the way we do roster projections. Who do they have the best shot at getting on the practice squad, Because even if Kevin Harris is a better player, they might have a better shot at waiving him getting into the practice squad and then they can elevate him versus a guy like James Robinson who they might lose if they can James Robinson.
I mean, and I'm just using those two. You can throw a Time Montgomery in there.
If he's in year five, correct, so he might be a vested VET at this point, so he might not pass through waivers. Time Montgomery definitely doesn't have to pass through waivers.
So Thig Robinson would.
It's it's four or five years. I always forget how many years it is.
It's some of it. It's not years. It's like playing time, it's a whole thing.
So anyways, the biggest thing to me with the running back position, I'm gonna say, Jen, I'm gonna say same from last year. I think it's different, certainly because Pierre Strong is a much different runner than David.
Different, but it's the same.
It's different in terms of their skill set, I know. But I'm optimistic that Pierre Strong is going to bring a good element, like something that they could you really utilize with his ability to his speed and even his agility in the open field, like we saw him make some really devastating cuts as well. He's quick and he's got some suddenness to his movements. So I'm really excited to see what he brings to the table. And I think that they still have a really good running back room.
I still think that's the strength of this team. Let's do tight ends really quickly and then we'll take some calls and we'll spend the next forty five minutes on the wide receivers and the offensive line, which, by the way, I think they have sixteen offensive line.
With the offensive line and linebackers, that's like half the ross sixteen.
It's unreal tight ends. So in my initial projection, I'll read the tight ends off first, Hunter, Henry, Mi, Kasiki, Matt Sokele Scotti, Washington, and your guy Johnny Lumpkin.
I think that's our guy after last week, don't think.
So those are your tight ends right now. My roster projection last week I did, and I know you did one too, only had Hunter, Henry and Kasiki on the final roster. That's what they did last year with Johnny and Henry, and they only have those two guys that made the initial fifty three. To me, it feels like the same thing, where those are two veteran guys that you invested some money in, you invested resources in. Those are the two guys that are gonna play assuming they're healthy.
Nobody else is. I know you like Johnny Lumpkin, Alex, but Johnny ump I had them on. Johnny Lumpkin is not is not taking away playing time for Mike Kasicki or Hunter Henry.
But let me ask you this. We both know the utf A streak is important to them that they keep that going nineteen years ago for a reason.
I kind of hope it's not like I kind of hope it's like.
What Takobe Meyer said as a rookie that I think you're the one who asked him this question that a big part of the reason he signed in New England was they had you think it's important to them because it gravitates towards you know, he helps the crude essentially. I'm not saying it's important, but oh, we've got to
do this because it's cool. I think because they can go to a guy and say, nineteen years in a row, you've had a rook and look they've kind of, you know, maneuvered it in the past, like remember the year that quin Quinordine and Nick Folk technically on the roster, right, I think it's something they care about who's the most They got three guys, Jordan, Heli, Malik Cunningham, who you hate, you don't hate. I don't say that Jordan Jordan, he
like Malik Cunningham and Johnny Lunkin. Realistically, of those three, who's the most likely to make the roster?
Yeah? I look, I think that there is definitely an argument, And I would say, just for better words same, I would say better because I think inherently speaking production wise, like how is how is Mike SICKI worse than Johnny's?
So I think they're better Kasicki's an upgrade. Yeah, I also think they might like Scotty Washington. And I'm not saying that overly shifts it. But if you get you know, you elevate him off the past squad for a couple of games. He gives you something.
He's a really interesting like he's huge, he's yeah, and he's athletic. No here, there's a lot of interesting a little bit. So I'm not saying he's gonna come in and make it difference again. Elevated for a couple games, he gave you something.
But the thing with Lumpkin to me is I don't think he's gonna take playing time away from Hunter Henry or Mike Sicky. But what happens when you get in the red zone and you want to go with that big formation. Plus he plays special teams, They'll find a role for him. It's not going to be expansive. But again, of those three guys, Heleigue is just special team. He's
not going to help you on defense or offense. Malie Cunningham's role is going to be have to be highly specialized or you get a blocking tight end who will help you cover kicks. So it's it's easy.
The thing that you just mentioned about is blocking, I think is important because I look at this group right now. Yeah, and if there's I don't I'm I'm not going to call people out by names. I'm not going to do it. There's some people that feel like John new Smith was a really good blocker. I'm not necessarily in that school. I think he was a adequate NFL blocker, like he was starting caliber in that category. Do I think he
was on the scale of starting to Rob Gronkowski. He's definitely just more towards the starting side of things, right, But he would he could hold his own in that respect. Neither Hunter Henry Nor. Mika Sicki gives you much in that regard, and I think that Mikasicki will be a better blocker here than he has been in the past because I think two things. One, I think they'll demand it out of him. I think Bill O'Brien will demand
it out of him, and Bill will too. And secondly, he's on He signed a one year contract for a guy that's been like, this is a really proven year for him, So I think he's gonna go out there and he's gonna give it as all in all phases, but it all doesn't mean that he's all of a suddenly going to become you know, Mark Bavarro right Like, he's still gonna have a some short So it's a little bit of a low key hole in the roster.
I'm not going to sit here and say that it's the most important thing in the world, but a little bit of a low key hole in this roster right now is they don't have a true difference making in line blocking tight end and they don't have a fullback, so they don't really have that in their repertoire. Like if they have to go into a period of the season where they really need to pound the rock and run the football effectively. They don't really have that. They
don't have that guy. They don't have a traditional full back like a James Devil or a Yakub Johnson. They don't have like a versatile blocker more like a John new Smith. They don't have the hand in the dirt, you know, third tackle tight end. So the question is, I guess they have sixteen offensive linemen, So can one
of those offenses. Do they do more tackle eligible stuff and do they get away with it that way or does somebody like your boy Johnny Lumpkin make the roster as a you know, Michael Kumamana.
Even if I think I got it, I think I nailed that just for a couple of weeks. Even if it's you know, something that he comes on and then they have to pull somebody off. I r right, start season whatever. But he'sn'ta be around. I think he's gonna be around. I think he's gonna play.
I do. I'm really That's the one thing that I I I know a lot of people are surprised they didn't draft a tight end with tight end one upside, you know, like a Darnell Washington or a Tucker Craft or something like that. What I'm what I'm like so surprised about is if they didn't even take one of those guys that was more of like a specialized blocking tight end. A little bit later, Yeah, you know, they just completely passed on the position altogether. Maybe it's Johnny Lumkin.
Maybe I tell you, I think that's he. I think he makes the team.
I really do. I think he makes the team.
I just keep going back to like if you go into the week and it's Tuesday, and you feel like, all right, we're playing this defense that's fast.
Look at week one or what we think is gonna be it's rumored to be Week one.
Maybe maybe them. But you go into the week and you're just like, this defense is undersized. It's fast, but they're light, and we want to just run them over. Like that's how we're going to play this game. I guess twenty eighteen Super Bowl run right, Like we're just going to run these people over. How do they really get into that personnel right now with the tight ends that they have Johnny lump with the last lack of full back, Like, how do they really do that? That's
the game plan. Maybe it's Johnny Umpkin. All right, let me take some of these calls and then we'll do the the meaty positions at the wide receivers in the old line. Max and SEACNK. What's up? Max?
Hi doing?
Guys?
Really enjoy you guys working together. Hoppy, you guys got on catch twenty two after your upgrade there, Evan, I thank you. Question for you guys. I know that Evan, you are sorry. Alex you and you mentioned this with Mike Kadlick. The line for mac Jones is four thousand yards this season. I think something that everyone's missing is that if you average out mac Jones over seventeen games last year, he was only down about one hundred and fifty five yards. Curious you guys thoughts.
Thanks, no problem. So this is definitely a Catholic angle his lines. His line is four thousand yards passing.
Thousand yards, twenty five touchdowns. That's a lot. That's the over under on the touchdowns twenty five. That's a lot.
I mean last year he had what.
Twenty one, but it was in fewer games.
He had twenty one passing touchdowns last year.
It sounds right, no, is it less than that I feel like it was less than that. Maybe it was on pace for twenty one. Anyways, he had pad four teams. Yeah right, I knew something bad I took. I said over on yards under on touchdowns.
I could see that. I could see that. I like we were kind of just talking about. I still feel like at their core, and this kind of goes back to like Dante's Scarneki and I have and fears and stuff. So maybe not so much anymore, but I still think at their core they want to be a team that when it's like third and two from the goal line, they can run the ball right like they don't want
they would rather, in my opinion, they would rather. And I think this is some other red zone issues that they had last year that they got too far away from this. When they get first and goal from the five yard line, they'd rather run it three times into the end zone right and not have to throw it.
And I think last year they kind of did get a little pass happy down there, and that would be a big bonus I think this year of getting back to their roots of being a good short yardage running team and being good in the trenches and Adrian clam and Bill O'Brien, Yes.
No, it's I actually think they're they're okay running in from like the five. My figure is shoes like the five to the fifteenth.
Yeah, they're like mid or high. Red zone numbers are terrible, ye last year.
So and that's why I took the under on touchdowns. Think they're gonna get down to like the one or two yard line a bunch and.
Just yeah yeah, all right, So four thousand yards that seems like a lot. Now, I guess with the extra game it's not. It's not quite as much as it used to be, But four thousand yards seems like a lot. Was he four thousand his rookie year?
I think he was like just shorty thirty eight hundred.
His rookie year. Yeah, doesn't that seem like a lot?
Well, I mean, in theory two hundred yards over seventeen games he was that's eleven more yards per game. Yeah, that's one more completion and he completed uh sixty seven percent of his passes. That's I guess that's pretty high. Yeah. Well, look, how about this. We've talked about the and this will segue I send the receivers. We've talked about how the
big difference between Jacobe Myers and Juju Smith. Schuster's that yard after catchability and they find eleven more yards per game and Juju creating after he catches the ball.
Out just to say, yeah, if he hits on those marks four and twenty five touchdowns, we're talking about forty billion dollars a year.
No, they have a quarterback. No, they have a quarterback.
Yeah, they're talking about giving back Jones. Daniel Jones said.
At beginning, what did Daniel Jones do last year? He's probably yeah, probably pretty compar right, hang on, let's see, they probably just took it right from Daniel Jones' box, probably like four thousand. No, Daniel Jones is actually not even close to that. Last year, Daniel Jones was thirty two hundred and fifteen touchdowns and now he only threw five interceptions and he ran and he ran find like
seven hundred yards. Yeah, so if you but even if you include the rushing, he didn't get to four thousand parts.
Yeah, all right, Eldrid, what's going on?
Hey man?
How you doing good? How are you?
I'm doing pretty good? Question out at the wide receiver spot. Do you think later later going hold of this spot? Have a special teamer like he'd been doing, instead of putting somebody in that can play special teams and maybe contribute and catching pastes.
Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up, because somebody brought brought this up in my mentions yesterday too. I don't I don't think it was you, Elder. I think of somebody else. Uh, And I don't understand the thinking like Slate, so you because they're going to carry at least five widers receivers, not including Matthew Slater, right, So Matthew Slater's spot is not He's not taking up somebody on the wide receivers depth chart, like he's not. How is he talking?
They're going to carry specialty but reiver spot.
But but they're not carrying Eldred. What if I told you last year Bill Bellich? I think was Bill Belichick. Maybe with Steve Bell Belichick referred to him as a safety.
But ultimately what I'm getting at is with Slater, And this is like a real like semantics argument here. They're going to carry five real wide receivers, not including Matthew Slater, right, They're going to carry five guys at the wide receiver position, just like every other team. So he's not going to take anybody's spot at the wide receiver position. Like that's like what I can't wrap my head around the spots
that he's taking up. Are you know guys that are at the back end of the roster, Like, are we all gonna are we all gonna lose sleep because Matthew Slater is taking you know, Raleigh Webb's roster spot.
Right, That's basically what you're talking about here is Roley Webb making the team over Matthew Slater.
Right, So they're gonna carry five real wide receivers and if they wanted, and now we can get into it and thanks for college or because we were gonna segue into this anyways, right, Uh, if they wanted, they could carry six, like they could. Matthew Slater is not gonna prevent them from carrying five to six, to four to whatever wide receiver number they want to. They'll figure out
the numbers with him in the in the equation. And if you look at like my roster projection, your roster projection, the guys that they are cutting, do you really think that those guys are bringing more to the football team than Matthew Slater like, do you really believe that they especially on game day, like not even talking about Yeah, I get it, Like they could maybe keep an Isaiah Bolden or a mere Speed if you know, one of those guys could end up making it, and that's developmental player.
But you're developing a mere Speed to hopefully develop into Matthew Slater, right, So unless he's just better than Matthew Slater at this point.
Of Slaters than the greatest ever do it?
Yeah.
The only way Slater's not making the team is if he gets in a camp and decides he wants to retire. That's it. He's gonna be here. They want special teams guys. He brings that leadership ability. He's going to be here, all right.
So that brings that segues us into wide receivers. They currently have seven wide receivers signed after releasing Lynn Bowden yesterday, they have seven.
They Juju Smith shoes eight.
You have eight? Yeah, who's your eighth? Are you counting Rolly web No, Rolly Webb counts as a special teamer, all right, Juju Smith, Schuster, Taekwon Thornton, Devonte Parker, Kendrick Bourne, Kaishan Boudi. But I keep doing that to Mario, Mario Douglas and Tree Nixon.
What did you keep calling to Mario Douglas during the Shrine Bray Week? I remember you couldn't get his name right. I don't remember what it was. Oh, it was Dallas Daniels, who was like he kept getting Dallas Daniels.
So tomorrow it was like Zay Flowers, So I'll just do the tears. Zay Flowers with the top tier to Mario Douglas was the second tier and then Dallas Daniels from where was where did you go again.
Jackson Jackson?
I thought it was Jackson Jackson State was the third tier and the Patriots just say, didn't only practice the one day? So Damrio Douglas and Dallas Daniels were just interchangeable in the slot. And they both had the you know, the little it'll eliteration there we go, Yeah, with the d's and every it just I couldn't do it. Dallas Daniels end up with the cowboys out there you go. So I think this is Elder's point and why he
called in, and I get it. In theory, they have six guys that have the talent to be on the roster sorry, Trey Nixon. Uh, six guys that have the talent to be on the roster with realistically five spots.
They could carry six, but they don't normally carry You remember what we did last year, and the reason why they don't can normally carry six, just like the reason why they don't normally carry extra bodies elsewhere is you could relate it and say that it is because they tee Matthew Slater and they keep Cody Davis, and they keep Brendan's right, like they keep the guys that are only going to play the kicking game. But they have they have a spot for one of their rookies.
Do you remember what we did last year? We had that big debate about who was it? He was Trey Nixon, Christian Wilkerson, and little Jordan Humphrey. Ye, And it was three guys for the fifth receiver spot. Yeah, and then they only kept for receivers. Do you remember that? So who knows how many the keep I had six on my first roster projection. There's a way they can do it. Now, They're gonna have to be thin somewhere else. I had them then on the defensive line, I had them thinn at corner.
Yeah, but.
What helps them is the six guys we're talking about here, who again are and I haven't listed alphabetically, so Kendrick Bourne, Kaishon Butte to Mario doug with Devonte Parker, Juju Smith, Schuster, Taekwon Thornton.
Yeah, those six.
Guys all have six pretty different skill sets. If there's one overlap, it's Kendrick Bourne to Kaishon Bute. But the reality is, if Kaishawn Bute plays well enough to earn a roster spot, you can't expose him by waiving him because he will get claimed. So unless they're gonna trade Kendrick Bourne, you have Parker, who's really your one true X receiver on the roster. Even the guys were not talking about here, like they don't have a backup, you know, roster fodder.
Especially a guy. I mean, you could make the argument that somebody like Taekwon could play the X, but in that that body type, they don't have any right exactly.
Juju is you know the slot he's made, He's making the tam right, he's making it, but his his skill set is Is there another guy on the team that has the same skill set as the same prototype of Juju Juju Smith Schuster.
He's not as uh, he's not as thick, But I think there is some overlap between. Like we just did the slot receiver Shrine Bowl tier is Juju Smith Schuster, Kendrick Bourn, Kishan Bute, so a little.
Bit a little bit of it, but like I think Juju Kishon Bute and for what for the role we think they're gonna play here, Yeah, Kashawan Bute and Kendrick Bourne are not the big slots, the power slots that Juju Smith Schuster is right in that regard, you lose that element. Obviously. Taekwon Thornton's the speed guy, Kendrick Bourne is your kind of move wide receiver, and then Douglas is your like speed slot, your shifting slot, or your gadget playget player. Right, So it's not like you look
at two guys and say, well, they're both competing. Even if they're competing maybe for one spot, like you said that that fifth receiver, they're different roles, right, There's not a lot where two guys are competing for the same role. So unless Bat is excellent, Born is bad and they can trade them, I think there's a real path to them keeping all six and I think, to go back to the exercise, say better at receiver, and I think noticeably, I.
Think they're better at receiver too. I think that I still will pound the table that Juju is an upgrade over Jacoby Myers, and I'm gonna still stick to that.
For what they need, he is better. And there are there are spots like.
There's there's certainly elements of Jacob. Jacoby is a better natural separator.
For what it's worth, I think Juju is a better fit in New England than Jacoby is at this point in time, I think Jacoby is a better fit for the Raiders than Juju been you really get down to system when you talk about you know, these two guys.
And I really think that Jacoby has elements of his game that are better than Juju's. But but I think jujus, like you said, uh, in particular after the cat, that's what it comes down and his ability to create some bigger plays, so that that's I think a big thing. I am really really excited, not I'm not. I wouldn't use the word optimistic, I wouldn't use the word bullish. I am excited about to see how Bill O'Brien is
going to use Taekwon Thorton. I'm just excited about a real offensive coordinator coming in here and having a guy with four two eight speed like that can run like that. How does he get him off the line of scrimmage? How does he use him in motion? How does he use different alignment tricks like stacks and bunches and things like that to get him off of press coverage or
away from contact. In the first you know, five to ten yards of the route, there's a lot of potential there for Bill O'Brien to create foot races for Taekwon Thornton, going this way, going that way, going up the field, going horizontally across the field. That could really make Taekwon Thorton an extremely fun player for the Patriots. I'm not going to put yards and touchdowns and catches on it.
I don't know how productive it's going to be, but I think that there's gonna be a lot of elements and that for that reason, I'm really thinking this could be a lot better if I'm if Bill O'Brien can get Tai k Kwon to be the player that was a game changer at Baylor using similar tricks of the Trade. I think that they have a really really fun room in that regard.
Do you have a breaking schedule news from the Patriots twitor account itself? Oh, what's that breaking? The Patriots will play here this season. It's a picture of Julette Stadium. Oh that's a good one because people have like the alerts on their phones, so they're breaking the Patriots will play here and not click it so the pictures let that's well done.
Good job Neil and Veronica and everybody like that is funy.
That's my kind of humor. It's funny.
Anyways.
Just a shout out to the guy in the comments who says we're not entertaining. That's entertaining.
Someone said we're not entertaining.
Some guy is very upset. The first he said, we're not entertaining. We don't know anything, and now the other people in the chat have talked him down to just we're not entertaining, which I will admit the show gets a little dense at times, but I think that's why people are.
Disappoint Exactly do you want entertaining? Then you know at the place for you, we're talking football here to a certain kind of persons. Okay, the rookies. The argument to me for keeping both rookies, I have a hard time thinking that both rookies are gonna fully play themselves into roster spots.
I think somebody else would have to have a bad camp. It's being too realistic, too optimistic. Their six round picks for a reason. I think it'd be really optimistic to think both guys are so good in camp. Nope, no, no, But now, what is the reason Keyshan Boute is a six round pick.
Reasons? We know the reasons, I know. We know the character concerns, injury concern Tomrio Douglas I love as a player, we know that. But at the bottom line is is that he's small and undersized and making a big leap in competition. There is a chance that his play strength and his ability to run through contact isn't good enough for this.
You know else with small and undersized and uh leaving play strength and something competition? Whatever the hell you just said? What Mark Jones? Yes, but that's what tomorrow Douglas's role is going to be. I think, yeah, and I and I'm I really am high on him. I think he's gonna be a good player here.
I'm just saying that it's very optimistic to think both of those guys are like studs in training camp to the point where they're both they have to make the team, right, you can't part with either of them. The argument to me that's better for it is that you really don't have very much on your contract pass this year at that position. So just looking at those two guys as developmental pieces in the pipeline for twenty twenty four and beyond.
I think it's important because Devonte Parker is a free agent after this year, Kendrick Bourne's a free agent after this year. You have Juju, you have Taekwon, and that's it. In terms of proven NFL.
Talent, I think Trey Nixon's in the last year.
Yeah, And and I know Taekwon proven NFL talent is a little strong right now. But potential guy that it was the second round pick. Yeah, So Taekwon's going to be here in twenty twenty four. Juju is going to be here in twenty twenty four. And so if you're looking at the depth chart next year, one of these rookie wide receivers is going to be kept, regardless, but keeping both of them and keeping six or carrying six, or trading Kendrick Bourne or trading DeVante Parker in the
summer to keep five, including both rookies. There is a contract argument to be made there that they need They just need bodies for twenty twenty four. They just need to have guys around that have been in the system, that have played football here for twenty twenty four. I'm not ready to put six on the roster. I cut Booty. I did. I know that was as tough to do because I think that they could go either way with
him tomorrow. Douglas feels like an easier projection to me, just feels I know what he is and what he isn't and there's a role for him on the team as that Marcus Jones gadget player type of guy in year one. Yeah, if they want to use him that capacity. Kishon Boude is, like you were saying, a little bit redundant to guys like Juju and certainly Kendrick Bourne. He's gonna have to push Kendrick Bourne either completely off the roster or just at least push for playing time to
make the team. Like he's gonna have to be really really uh in Kendrick Bourne's rear view mirror.
I just think, even if there's not a twenty twenty three football reason for keeping keishon Bute, I think exposing him as risky and you remember you burned that contract, you cut him, he's no longer signed for four years. Now you have to keep sign even the futures deals and becomes an EERFA an RFA. Yeah, I think you gotta find a way to hold on him. Now. There's you know, there's also injuries are gonna happen. It's unfortunate,
so maybe there's another way it happens. But even if you don't think both of those guys are gonna be locked down contributors this year, and I think Douglas who contributes some, I think Boute can contribute maybe more in twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five. But if you think those guys are gonna be pieces, that four year contract is valuable, especially in a sixth round four year contract, right. I think in that sense alone, they find a way to keep both guys on the roster, even if they
have to do some serious juggling. I think they're gonna keep six receiverses.
It's a it's a good point. It's the contract in the longevity of the other contracts in that room. We talked to Matt grow I don't know if it's during the draft or before the draft, when he mentioned it would be foolish to not look ahead at contract situations for twenty twenty four and beyond when you're drafting.
Oh, you have to.
And certainly some of the drafts the picks that they did make, I know they didn't in certain spots like tackle and tight end, but an interior offensive line, they certainly have it the pipeline ready for their stucked. They're they're ready to go for if Mike on Wenu walks, if David Andrews retires, like they got guys so they they definitely looked at it in some places. And I think the six round receivers are potentially guys that they look at as twenty twenty four and beyond assets as
well to keep around. So are you better on wide receivers. I'm better on it?
Oh yeah, no, I think noticeably better. I think both in the short term and in the long term. I know people are down that they didn't take a receiver high in the draft, but sorry, just saw the Patriots pop up on it. Yeah, that worked there.
No, oh that's the old news.
The Tom Brady thing.
Yeah, we very we can touch on that in No.
You listen to public service announcement ten times today on the drive. I think they're they're better short long term.
All right? You ready for me to read the sixteen sixteen offensive lineman currently have under contract?
Can I try to do it six Can I try to do it by I.
Mean you probably have a different order than me, so this might be hard. But well, you have the depth chart, right, I'm guessing I have my version of it.
Okay, So at tackle you have Trent Brown, Riley Reef, Calvin Anderson, Andrew Stuber, Calvin Anderson, Andrew Stuber.
At guard you have missing some tackles.
But I know I am Trent Brown.
Okay, we don't have time, Okay.
Just go ahead.
Trent Brown, conjuiced, James Farrence, Jason Hines, Bill Murray, Mike On went Now, Cody Russy, Cole Strange, Andrews Duber, Calvin Anderson, Connoment, Riley Reef, David Andrews, Jake Andrews, City Sow, and Antonio moff I, miss Connrac Dermott sixteen offensive linemen under contract.
Yeah, but it's really three positions. That's only like Adrian five players per position.
Do you think that they like have to go and do their like their their meetings in like the auditorium or something like that, Like do you think the O line room is big enough for sixteen three and twenty pound human beings to sit in one room?
Well, look if they do the tackles meeting, it's only six players, right. How many linemen did they have last.
Year at this point? I don't know about it. At this point, they only ended up carrying eight, eight or nine guys last year on the initials.
No, but at one point they had like four or five on the practice squad.
Yeah, it's a lot. So it's always a lot.
It's always.
I think what's different about this year in terms of it being a lot is that there there's so much uncertainty at tackle that they might just carry the bodies just to have different bodies to throw at it. Right, Like there's because there's no real concrete other than I think Trent Brown, who after they didn't draft the tackle early.
I think it's safe to say that Trent Brown is is now on this team like, I understand that there's cap things that they could cut Trent Brown and save some money or trade Trent Brown and save some money. They don't without drafting a tackle in the top fifty. I did. They got it. Trent Brown is the only guy that's played the NFL games for a long period of time and done well. And here's the thing besides, I guess Riley Reef.
When we were there y for a long time, when we were talking about like back in March, right, Oh, if they cut Trent Brown, it's whatever it is, seven to ten million. I apologize Pat's gap. I got it wrong. I got it all spring. The idea was they were going to take that seven to ten million and use it in free agency to tackle or then a drafted tackle in the first round. Right, remember remember sign one Draft one. Yeah, those are the days that they did
draft on Alex they drafted City South. They gad, you're right, right, I should be. I stand corrected. Yeah, I'm not saying that there's nobody they can sign now, but yeah, seven to ten million dollars means a lot more in March
than it does in May. Yeah, right, So at this point, are you going to beat can those seven to ten million dollars make you a better team with players other than Trent Brown, just based on who's available, unless they're maybe opening up money for some sort of trade or something, which rabbit hole, how do they do that? So I think Trent Brown's safe with this.
Okay, so the the the drill is better worse saying, I do think it's a little bit confusing with this because there's so many button names and some are tackles, some are guards, some are centers, some are tackles, slash guards. You know, it's all over the place. But I think the biggest thing that I would say, I'm gonna say that I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna contradict myself because I'm allowed to do that. I think they're better on paper.
But I have some real legitimate concerns about this, about this tackle group, some real concerns that I I am fearful, just like last year when right tackle and at times, let's face it, with Trent Brown, left tackle too, Alex was a little bit up and down. I am concerned that this is going to be the demise of this offense. Not past catchers, not the Latin, not that oh they don't have the number one receiver, like, none of that.
My biggest concern right now is protection pass protection mainly, I think they'll figure out how to get it blocked up in the run game, and I think a lot of that assignments is so important when it comes to that, and I think Bill O'Brien and Adrian Clem being here, it will be so much cleaner in terms of mike points and angles and who has who and that sort of thing that I think their run game is going to be fine. Pass protection and tackle play in pass
protection is a big concern of mine. I think the main reason is because I think they're rolling with Riley Reef at right tackle, and I had serious range and foot speed concerns with him based off of his film last year with Chicago, and now we're even a year ahead of that. You look at reportedly.
Reportedly the matchup in week one, yeah, which reportedly reportedly is the Philadelphia Eagles, and reportedly reportedly and Riley Reef against Hassan Reddick, Like that's a mismatch, right, And then the next week he goes up against Jalen Phillips and Bradley Chubb, and then the next week it's gonna you know, could be Von Miller and Greg Russeau with Buffalo, you know what I mean. Like, there's just so many of these talented edge rushers. We know statistically speaking that Mac
Jones is like all quarterbacks regresses under pressure. But Mac in particular last year had a ton of issues against the blitz and a ton of issues with pressure. Now with a better coordinated attack and metter hots and better blitz pickups and like, all, yeah, it should be cleaner. We get all that. I'm very I'm not like that bullish on this offensive line group. I am coming around on some of the rookies. I think that some of these rookies can play in spots that they have skill
sets that fit spots that they need. You know, Antonio Maffi, I think is a classic if they don't end up paying Mike on Way. I knew like he's going to start at right guard in twenty twenty four and he's going to be a fine player for them.
City Sao is exciting, you know. I watched some of his film, Poor U Mass. I really learned like the difference between City Sao and and the guys they had there. Well, I think he legitimately, I think really did some damage to.
Him and to Mario Douglas Tomorrow.
Yeah, it probably tells you a lot about that program. But City Sao does have some some suddenness, some movement skill, some foot speed. Certainly. I still look at him though, and still I still see a guard. I still see a guard ideally, but I guess in theory they've moved that player to right tackle before it's Mike on Wnu. It's to a degree, Marcus Cannon right, Marcus Cannon was a little bit taller than Onnu. Marcus knn' is a big guy. I didn't realize Cannon's like six ' five
three thirty. Yeah, so he's you know, on why it was stouter he's yeah, and when it's like six one, yeah, City sounds a little bit closer to that with Marcus Cannon. So I think City South can play tackle at right tackle. Certainly not a left tackle in this system, but I think you could play right. It's a lot of bodies
and we'll see what ends up happening in camp. And the last one I mentioned because I was higher on him when they made this who's free agent signings, and I think Riley Reef has gotten a lot of buzz as kind of the guy because of his experience and his steadiness and his leadership and all that. I really
like Calvin Anderson as a player. And Calvin Anderson, to me is the guy that could allow you if he has a good camp and he looks the part and all that kind of stuff, Calvin Anderson could be the guy that allows you to move Trent Brown right back to the right side. Because Calvin Anderson's an athlete, you know, that's the one thing that he certainly has foundationally, really really good athlete, A great explosiveness out of his dance.
He's got the range. He's just inconsistent with his technique. If they can coach him up and Adrian Clem can get him to be more consistent. And he's a left tackle, so you could play him on the left side Trent on the right side. That could steady things maybe a little bit more. But better words were same on the offensive line, and it's confusing, is the names.
Is it weird that I feel better about him? And that doesn't mean I don't have concerns. I very much have concerns. I echo a lot of what you said about the tackle position. Yeah, but Isaiah Winn just didn't have it last year, and their right tackles were terrible, right, and Connor McDermott, like Connor McDermott, was serviceable.
Connor McDermott saved the day.
And he was replacement level. Yeah, right, And you know, Marcus Cannon loved him when he was at the Patriots, was a great player. He's not that guy anymore. So, Yeah, they have options. It's almost like the running back thing. Although I said worse at running back, I guess I don't, but they didn't have the optionense last year. Like there was no Damien Harris at the tackle position last year, just that sturdy veteran that you know, maybe wasn't great,
but gotcha there. I guess that's what Connor McDermott was, but not to.
The same I think the I think they hope that that's what Riley Reef is.
I think so, like again, like they didn't have a guy like Riley Reef. They didn't have a guy like Calvin Anderson last year after Trent Brown. You're really just going with you know, you're really just kind of hoping and I'm not saying that Yodney could just Isaiah Win. I'm not saying that Riley Reef or Calvin Anderson is necessarily great, but if you're gonna take a lottery ticket, I think they're better lottery tickets than what they have last year. Yeah, So I do feel I don't feel great.
I don't even know if I feel good. Yeah, but I do still feel better than last year, which maybe shows how bad their offensive line was at times last year.
Yeah. That it's it's really a it's kind of remarkable that and they feel good about this tackle room. They told us, They've told us right to our.
Face, and Macro said it.
Macro said it, and I think that, you know, Belichick said it too when he he mentioned that all the offensive additions in free agency and they didn't really add to the defense and free agency and that's why you got the defensive picks at the top of the draft instead of offense. But in general, they feel good about this tackle. I think that they think that they're better
on paper there than maybe the outside noise suggests. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt going into the year because maybe they know something that we don't shock her, and maybe they they're you know, seeing it differently, shocker, and I'll give them the benefit of doubt. But on paper, from the outside looking in, it looks like a group that has a lot of names but doesn't really have a lot of guys that you can
fully count on. If you were to configure, they're starting five right now on the offensive line, I think is the best way to do. You know who's starting at center, you know who's starting at left guard, and barring something weird happening, you probably know who's starting at right guard too.
And when I say one of the guys who's starting on the right side, And when.
I says starting at right guard, barring something weird happening, I mean if on when who ends up being some sort of a trade situation, which I don't think is going to happen. You know who's starting at right guard, and I think you know that Trent is starting at one of the tackle spots. That other tackle spot's wide open. It could be you could tell me right now it would be Riley Relief, Ryley, Riley Reef.
That's gonna be a tough one.
You could tell me that it was gonna be City Soal at this point, you could tell me it would be Mike gon Winnu and they're gonna play one of the rookies at guard right, Like you could tell me all sorts of different configurations and I would believe you. And I don't know if that's necessarily a great day.
And this is the one sort of biggest i'd say, maybe even more so than wide receiver that I have with their current roster, is I want an offensive line Like I missed the days when week out into camp alex and we just knew who the starting offensive line was, right, those were the days like that that was That's what you want because you don't want to talk about your offensive line. If you're talking about your offensive line more times than not, it's because it's a weakness. You don't
usually talk about an offensive line. That's that doesn't give you a lot of reasons to talk about them. So we'll see what ends up happening. Hopefully they're right and we're all wrong about the tackles and ends up being good. These rookies are interesting players, though I did uh Jake Andrews and Antonio Maffi. We have profiles up on them now. We talked to some of their coaches, Mike did City Sow.
But with Jake Andrews, I think a couple of things just quickly that his coach has told me about him. He's a really really good high school wrestler, Like I love that All American and state champion in Alabama.
Copan, the one who was the college wrestler.
Well Steven Neils Steven, So he was an all time uh you know, kind of almost like a legend wrestling in in Alabama. And it was a really good offensive lineman to All State all that kind of stuff in Alabama, so all state football, and uh he went to Troy, which I get isn't It's not Alabama, it's not Georgia.
I get that. But he's got that that wrestling not only from a technique standpoint that he's got that you know, understands rules of engagement and leverage and like all that kind of stuff, but he's also just got that like snarl and that that grittiness and that toughness. He's a really strong, stout player, and I think that he's definitely gonna be somebody that factors in that center in the
long term. And I look at Antonio Maffi basically a carbon copy of Mike on Winnu from a body type standpoint, how he's built played nose tackle, switched over to guard now plays guard really just block of a man like this, massive dude, powerful, strong, a lot like Mike on winning. So I can see where they're going with all those picks.
So we'll see what ends up happening interior scene. They might have the best interior line depth in the league after taking three of them in the draft, Like nobody's got more guards in the Patriots, So we'll see how that ends up happening really quickly before we sign off, Alex, what are your thoughts on Tom Brady coming back for the Patriots? Said opener, home opener. It sounds like it's gonna be a weak one. Sounds like rumored, not confirmed. Well,
it's gonna be the home opener whatever it is. Yeah, it sounds like that's gonna be in week one, is what I was getting at. Okay, Tom Brady coming back, the prodigal Sun returning, how do you feel about it?
I mean, you remember when we were doing shows, when when we first started working together and he left. My whole thing with him leaving was like I don't necessarily mind watching him in another uniform.
Yeah.
My issue was you only get Peyton right, where Peyton Manning's now more part of the Broncos than the Colts, even though he, you know, is the greatest player in Colt's history. Yeah, And I was like, I don't want to lose Brady in that sense. I want him to be a Patriot for life. And look, we're probably gonna have to share him with Tampa to some extent one where or the other. But coming back for something like this is big. I'm glad he's doing it. I'm really
glad he's doing it. So I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna be really fun day, you know. Hopefully they play up to it. Yeah. The other question here is like do they wear to throwback uniforms? And then do we because they normally give the guy the jersey, right, they'll give him the current jersey, they won't give him the one with like the silver shoulders, right the dynasty era. Do we get to see him in the pat Patriot throwback one last time? That could be cool? So No,
I'm super excited for It's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm glad he's doing it. I'm glad the team's doing it. Yeah. Robber Craft seemed super excited about it on NFL Network this morning, which I mean, of course he is, but like it was kind of cool to see that, like, oh, it felt like a high school union. So looking forward to better than the high school re union, you know, you know what I mean.
But that, like, I think a couple of things.
When you see these people hanging out together, you haven't seen hung out together in years, and it's like, oh yeah, yeah, so yeah.
It's kind of like I imagine how my parents feel when my high school friends like come back around, Like you know, if we're like all home for things that's good or something like that, and like, you know, the people my high school friends that like grew up in my house as kids and stuff like that, my parents get all excited when they when those people are around really quickly. With Brady, I guess two things for me. One and it's great that we are opening the door
to him being a part of the Patriots again with this. Yes, it's not gonna be the only thing. It's certainly I don't even think it's gonna be the biggest thing. I think that there's gonna be bigger monumental type of moments or ceremonies, you know, Patriots Hall Fame.
Jersey Craft said kind of that, right, yeah, Jersey retirement, this is you don't think that retires Jersey when he's here. I was kind of hoping that they would.
I don't know anything, So I just want to put that out there because I think sometimes people think that, you know, we we know things around here about this type of stuff. I don't know anything about that. I don't think so I think that this is remember after the COVID year, they brought Julian Edelman back and they just allowed They just gave him a moment at halftime and allowed the Craft. That's what this is, I think
in theory, So Jersey retirement. I wouldn't rule out them announcing that they are retiring his jersey because that's a given. It's that's an easy one, right, So I wouldn't rule that out. But I think that ideally they have separate occasions for all of these things. You know, this is just kind of a way to bring bring him back and reintroduce him back into the Patriots organization and also just to quite frankly show him off right to the fans.
A little bit and get fans fired up. Then I think there's gonna be Jersey retirement, and then there'll be Patriots Hall of Fame. Now there could be a situation where the Patriots Hall of Fame voting and all it might not go through the typical hoops for the Patriots Hall of Fame.
I feel like they got to put him in like specially.
For two reasons. One, it's silly to put Tom Brady up against like poor Logan Makings and Bill Parcells in a fan vote, because it's just gonna be one hundred.
Like, oh my god, it takes from you. If it's Brady against Barcels.
It'll just be like, it'll be ninety nine percent Brady, because some trolls will vote for somebody else just to throw off the numbers. But obviously he's gonna win in a absolute landslide in a fan vote. So it's kind of unfair almost in a way to put two guys up against him in a fan vote like they traditionally do. And then secondly, he does deserve it, of course, to be you know, just put right in and not gone
through the whole voting process. So I think that's in play I think that there will be some sort of statue road named after like something like that, right that's around the stadium. That's sort of a showing, you know, love to Brady in some sort of way, so that there'll be a bunch of different check marks here, you know. I think there's gonna be a lot of different benchmarks here of what they're gonna do with him. So that's great.
But this is to me is really just like the first step of hopefully many steps to honor Tom Brady from this point on. So that'll be fun. Let's just really quickly, really really quickly does do better where it's the same rapid fire here. Just to everybody that just listened to us talk about seventeen hundred different names for an hour and a half, knows where we're at. So quarterbacks, we're both. Are we better?
I said, very, very slightly worse? Worst? I think I said same, Okay, I didn't know, same as an option.
Yeah, better, worse, same?
All right, just keep going.
Running backs, I said better.
You said worse with potential to be better.
Can you not walk the fence one time? You said?
You keep saying that's the most walking defence. Yeah, at least I admit it out loud wide receiver.
We're both better noticeably better. Tight ends, were both better. Better offensive line, we're both bet better. Yeah they got better in some places. Yeah they did get better. See how much it matters in a couple of months. But we'll be back next week and we'll talk about the schedule and it's full capacity once we have it tonight.
So next week we'll do a schedule recap and go over some of the usual things, you know, the the meat of the schedule and the bye week and Christmas and all that type of stuff, and we'll also do a better word same for the defense, which I think is a little bit easier quite frankly, than the office. There's a lot of names. Defensively, I think it's a little bit easier. So we'll do that next week as well. But until then, signing off for Alex Bartham, Evan Lazar.
Thanks for watching and listening everybody, and we'll see you guys next Thursday.
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