Patriots Catch-22 4/9: Draft Buzz, Positional Draft Favorites on Offense

This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex Barth.

And Lazarre.

Hello, everybody nailed it, joined us Always buy our bark.

Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barr The only coach you can get away with that technique. There's one coach. The answers, but that way p one question it love it, that was good. That was good.

That made me feel good.

That was a good.

That was my favorite SoundBite to come from the owner's meetings.

Oh, I'm sure it was favorite sound bite. Nothing, nothing, but the coach that coaches, you're the team you cover said, certainly.

There's very well had a good You had a good presser.

I talked about building a tough, physical football team, didn't he Not only that, nobody talked I'd rather hear about that than ep a Ian. Rather hear about how you're gonna win football games. And as long as the math lines.

Up, how you're gonna win football games is by building a good passing game. That's how that's the point that he was making.

By building good football team. Good passing game equals wins, and good football team equals wins.

I don't understand that they're they're the same thing.

There's I believe it or not, there's more to football than just throwing the ball. Yes, there is, for balance purposes. Sure, sure, there's more to football than throwing the ball. All right, I promise you watch a football game sometime. You'll be surprised.

Oh wow, Okay, that's where you're going. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, Evan, watch a football game that never happens. All right, Hello, everybody, Evan Lazar, Alex Bars Patriots Catch twenty two. Two weeks Alex two weeks to go until the NFL Draft. Two weeks in a day. But I'm gonna call it two weeks. I'm gonna round down and call it two weeks. Look, the hay is not quite in the barn for me personally,

Right?

Bales of hay to go? Yeah, but we're very very close.

And now is how many players? Would you say you're up to?

Probably about one thirty?

Yeah, okay, I'm probably not range.

Yeah, I'm trying to get to one fifty this year. Usually I get to around between one twenty five and one fifty. But this year, I'm trying to get to that one fifty more because they have those two fifths and you just, you know, you kind of want to know a little bit more about early day three in a year like this. But we're getting to the point

Last year on McAfee. I was going to bring this up last year on McAfee, Bill Belichick said, the accurate information from teams doesn't really start leaking out until about twelve hours before the draft. Yeah, and I remember looking at it last year. Remember it was JJ McCarthy to Patriots JJJJJJ. By the way, JJ McCarthy's agent I hopefully got a raise after last year. But it was about ten hours out last year that we started getting those reports that, Hey, it's Drake may yeh, it's gonna be

Yeah, one hundred percent. And this is a part of the draft where I hate this part. Honestly, this is my least favorite part because you just start to hear a lot of silliness. You also start to have people that and I'm guilty of this too, that are just so dug in on their take and there's so take

It's the same arguments over and over because again there is no new information. But so you get some people who are so dug in. You also get some people who, uh, you know, want something new to talk about. So now we're just pulling these random what if ashion. Genty goes to Evan with the brown stick ash and genty.

Second, I haven't even heard that.

I just hear I haven't either, But I bet you in the next two weeks we're gonna hear somebody bring up what if, Like what if the not necessarily as a report, but again because we have this time to fill and there's nothing new, so we're gonna create something new. What if fashion genty goes second?

Yeah, I've heard, you know for the Patriots. You know, we've seen some mock drafts recently, Jalen Walker as I picked up a little bit of steam. You know, obviously all the trade down scenarios and stuff like that have been popular. So you hear a lot of that kind of stuff. And we're gonna get into some of the new use for the Patriots with the draft or the Patriots adjacent news at least as well here in a second. And then we're also gonna do My Guys starting today.

I can split it up.

We'll get into all the my guys for the offense. Next week we'll do defense, and the following week we'll just kind of do a general preview slash, you know, rap show on the pre draft process.

If you will.

So that's the agenda for today. We'll obviously take all your calls and emails as well.

It's at.

Podcasts I always Forget What It is now podcast at Patriots dot com. And obviously the Patriots Catch twenty two Hotline, not the Unfiltered Hotline because that's a different show. So the eighty five to five pass five hundreds of phone number. We see you guys lining up on the phones already. But hey, Patriots fans, if you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV, go to

There's obviously Ken if he wants come up to four.

Yeah, there's obviously an infatuation with with Travis Hunter across the league, which is not surprising, but with Abdul Carter specifically, Uh, if he's there at four, I think there's an interesting discussion that comes to that one. It's another defensive player on that side of the ball. But what I continued to say is that it is a player that is so far above the rest of the pack that you

So I don't know. Maybe I'm in the minority here because there's been a lot of reporting that the Browns were there for Travis Hunter. But and I get they sent a big group. I understand that, and Travis Hunter's a great player. Is the owner really traveling for a wide receiver? Is the owner traveling to see a wide receiver.

Like now he did go to Penn State.

Okay, so, but just the whole party is reminiscent to me of what the Patriots sent to LSU and two UNC last year. I'm like, this is what teams generally send for quarterbacks. So maybe that means that they're going to try to move up and get Sanders in, like the teens move up from the second round and get Sanders in the teens. And they are going to take Hunter at two, and they do want to pair them up. But I still think if Sanders goes too, this is

It happening, yeah, yeah, And I feel like that's that's where I'm at. I'm trying to think about this realistically. You know, if the draft is Ward Sanders Hunter, then I think that's probably now the most realistic way this goes. That one of those two guys falls to the Patriots. Hunter Carter falls to the Patriots is if the draft goes Ward Sanders one and two. I don't think if the draft goes Ward Hunter, that the Giants are going to pass over Abdul Carter. So the Giants were then

He is the draft boogeyman. You don't want to see Bob mcgainn writing about a player, do you like?

Yeah, So he comes out every single year, position by a position, and he's got scouts on the record anonymously talking about these players.

And he was the one for Reference last year. Remember like a week before the draft and we were big Ady Mitchell guys that put out there that Ady Mitchell was going to fall because teams didn't like the way he managed his diet his diabetes. Right, Is that what it was? And I so Adie Mitchell then falls on draft night way beyond where anybody thought. I don't think

Well, that's what I'm saying in terms of I don't think we're in that territory because I know he had the incident a year ago with the total truck driver and all that he's been cleared of any charges of that in that case, unless there's more cases that we don't know about that weren't you know, risen to the legal level, you know, where he's getting charged with anything,

He's kind of a diva.

He's a little high maintenance, you know, and he's one of those guys that Monday through Saturday might not give it as all, but Sunday he obviously, you know, when you turn on the tape, you can see what he can do on Sundays or Saturdays, you know, in college football. So I think the number one thing to me with all of this, I always take this type of stuff with a grain of salt. You know, you never know if anybody has a motive or an axe to grind

All he does. All he does is study football and play video games. That's really it. Yeah, Like he talked about this on College Game Day last year where he was like, I'm in the film room, I'm Matt practice, I'm in the workroom, and they're like, you must do something else. He's a streamer, that's you know what a lot of these kids do. That's what he does. But usually like he plays CFB twenty five like it's still a football game. So that he is it is really underrated.

Yeah, yeah, and if Abdol Carter isn't that And we're looking at the two of these players, and I think most people would agree either they're one two or two one, and they're both kind of equally graded. In that blue chip terrritory. Like these types of things, when you're making a pick that high can certainly sway you towards one player versus another. Do you think that Vrabel would concede on the culture stuff because Carter is just so overwhelmingly talented.

Well, this is kind of a I don't want to do that. It's a catch twenty two. On one hand, he doesn't necessarily fit the culture that you're looking for, and that might be a red flag. On the other hand, isn't this part of why you build that strong culture Because if there is a guy that's so monumentally talented,

Yeah, I agree, and and I think the other you know, conversation, I don't want to spend too much time on the character still because I don't know Abdul Carter, Like it's not my reporting, Like I don't know the guy's when you start to talk about why could he be falling? And that's sort of a conversation that's going around right now. This is the only reason why it's obviously not the tape right, like it's it's obviously not the foot player because we can all see how talented he is, but

Oh no, he can't, he can't do half a mini camp. We got drive somebody else.

Like, No, I don't think it's that. This to me is is one hundred percent.

Uh. If there's anything going on, it might be care I hate doing this stuff, but it also is it's important context, like we because we're projecting off the tape, right, but the one part piece of information that we don't have. We're not in the meeting rooms with these guys. Yeah, we and you hear coaches talk here and there, but everybody has an agenda, right, We don't have necessarily the full personality, mental makeup picture that the teams do. So

Ni?

Kobe Dean? N Kobe Dean, thank you? Yeah? Na Kobe Dean goes like very late in the draft, and then it comes out he had a shoulder injury that nobody knew about. And it's like if I had known that, I would have adjusted, but it wasn't out there. So yeah, I hate talking about this stuff, but it all it's the part of the picture that we don't have. So when we get these little nuggets of it, I do think it's worth the dressing. And it goes the other

Whether you think it's overblown or not with some of this stuff that comes out in these you know, McGinn style articles. Dan Brukler released the Beasts today. Usually Dan's a little bit more timid with some of this stuff.

But if there is honest.

Concerns about a player's you know, mental makeup. You know Javon Baker, I remember last year, you know, some of this stuff about his maturity and all that kind of stuff came in the Beast like that that he'll come out and say it too, right, And it's important because, like you said, we're on the outside looking in to this puzzle. We don't have all the information at hand, and when we will, you know, get our takes out.

Yeah, and we did. The only reason we don't talk about it is is we don't have it right, right, we will look and sometimes it ends up being Psyeah. Two years ago, teams were worried Christian Zalez was soft yeah, and he wouldn't make it, and he fell to fourteen, and then he fell to seventeen, and Annual fourteen he went over him. Kean White too, Kean waves another one. So sometimes it ends up being bs yeah in the at the end. But it impact we're talking about when

So the other thing, as we segue into the next news item I wanted to bring up, I have zero hesitations about Abdul Carter playing defense, like not being like a tackle or a receiver an offensive player. I think the bad teams stay bad by passing on better players for needs. Right, any if you have a chance to get Abdul Carter now, you might look at me and say you think Mason Graham's a better prospect than Will Campbell or you think Jalen Walker is a bet. Those

Gent is in that tier with Kit, with Carter and Hunter. To me, he's just it's sure the running back thing. But like I so to case in point for the Giants, if it goes quarterback quarterback, they get to do the whole positional value and fit thing. Yeah, with Carter and Hunter. And that's why I think they would take Travis Hunter, even though Carter might be a little bit of a prospect. The one thing that kind of haves edge, So they

And I like what the Patriots have done on the defensive line. Milton Williams is obviously a great player, a good sign Harold l Anders, a solid signing that's gonna be an NFL caliber starter that's gonna be plug and play and a defense he's familiar with. But they don't have it. They don't have a sack artist, like, they don't have a finisher. They to me Abdull Carter completes the defense like that's a cherry on top of the Sunday.

We've talked so much about the coverage dictating wide receiver. Yeah, the blocking, dictating pass rusher. They don't have the Matthew Judon.

Right, the jude On, you know, the pure one on one winner on the outside that's gonna have double digit sacks, right, I don't know if they have that.

Who's the guy that's going to force offenses to do things differently? And boy, you drop Carter into the thing. Carter, Milton Williams, Christian Barmore. He is healthy, which probablys great to seem in the building this week. Ye can right for workouts? Well, I was just going to say, at all three levels, right, you talk about cornerstone players. Kean White will see you can get there, He's not there yet. Milton Williams, Christian Barmore,

When I look at the Patriots and then I promise we'll move on because and I spend a lot of time on this, but when I look at the Patriots in terms of, you know what, there are pillars of this team moving forward, Drake May, Christian Gonzalez and potentially Abdul Carter. Doesn't that feel a little bit like Stroud, Stingly and Will Anderson in Houston a little bit?

Right?

Like it's very similar. Obviously, Drake May hasn't risen quite yet to the C. J. Stroud level. I wouldn't say Stingley and Gonzales both all pro corners. I think Will Anderson and Abdull Carter are adjacent in terms of talent and you know, just ceiling as prospects coming out of college. The Texans just did this right. The Texans just kind of put set themselves up for the next at least five years of being a playoff contending team.

Well before they tore their offensive line apartment.

Yeah yeah, Now the difference is, and this is where we get into defense and some of the guys I'm I'm gonna mention with some of these recent visits that have been reported, the little bit of difference is that the Texans hit on Day two picks right, so that

Well they moved up to get and.

Yeah, but they he was the best player available and they moved up and got him. When you draft those types of players on one side of the football, you got to hit in rounds two through seven on some of the other positions that are going to be important to your offense. And Nico Collins is like a mid round draft pick that turns into one of the best receivers in football. You know, that's right, that's the type

Right?

Like, who are the guys that you would be comfortable with taking at nine? And Mikel Williams and Shamar Stewart to me, would fit into that stack that range of the draft. Now, I'm definitely mikel over Shamar Stewart. I think Mikyle Williams is a much better football player than Shamar Stewart.

Williams said McKay like the safety.

I said, I don't know. Mike hal Williams.

Yeah.

Uh, he's a better football player to me than Stuart. Stewart's a better athlete. Stuart's a one to one athlete, you know, absolutely rare tools and athleticism. But I didn't love what I saw on tape from Stewart. I thought he was stiff. It doesn't have a ton of bend off the edge, not gonna win with much finesse. You know, I really actually thought watching him that Will Campbell, you know, kind of ate his lunch. Like he really didn't give

To get a nine. I feel like he's heat. That guy, screams Carolina Panther.

Yeah, yeah, either one of those guys, though, I'd be okay with in that scenario but what are your thoughts in the meeting with those guys, because I think Williams and again, I think Williams and Stewart are kind of in the no man's land for them, like it doesn't really feel like they're going to be in a position to draft those guys.

Well, so, Stuart, I've seen some mocks that put them down into the twenties. Now, some of that is Mike Green going higher than expected with that, that's another guy that has some non football concerns. Yeah, some of those mocks have some other edge guys going earlier, but no, they're they're they want to be ready if a trade down comes. You can't get to nine and be like, shoot, we don't know anything about any of these guys, right, so you want to be prepared in that situation. It

There's some like outside the lines with that in terms of like the lines, I mean literally like drawing the mileage lines, Like Yukon is a local visit for the Patriots, So I don't know if it exactly fits into the mileage, but they stretch it because they know there isn't a ton of college football.

The Cowboys have the university, they have all those schools in Dallas, plus all the kids that are from that area that ARECU Baylor. Yeah, some of the Florida teams too, the Dolphins, the Jags. They have a nice advantage there. But yeah, that's a side rant. Yeah, no, I think it's just due diligence.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

And it's also you know, it's a smoke screen too, like if they only met with Will Campbell, do they meet with Membo? So I don't.

I'm sure they have, but I don't know if.

For thirty, But if you have Will Campbell visit and that's it, you kind of lose a lot of leverage if you're trying to make a trade or what have you. So yeah, get to know the top guys on the board.

I think it's interesting. Uh, you know, we hear these thirty visits and you mentioned that them knowing the opponents that they've gone up against. You know, Calvin Banks Junior is a good one. I don't know if if Williams ever faced Campbell maybe two years ago. They didn't play Georgia last year. I know that, But anyways, yeah, uh,

I'm with you, but I think in this draft, like they don't need to take that guy in the first round and get that guy. There's some really good Day two edge guys.

All right, let's get into my guys, and then we'll take the calls in the emails for the last hour or so here. Let's start with quarterback as we can kind of probably.

Go pretty quickly. Just go to the first round. Yeah, first round, guys are out let me at real quick. Just aside from the Patriots. Who ends up being QB three and where does he go?

Jackson Dart yep, mid to eight first like twenties.

So I when I did my mock draft, I added, as Jackson Dart, I had the Giants moving up to I think twenty six to take them. I had them taking Hunter right and then Jackson Dart makes the most sense. Jalen Miller accepted that invite to the draft, so so I'm not se was surprising some people. I think he's no, no.

I just quarterback. I gotta be honest. I just didn't really care too much about quarterbacks. So, uh, I liked what I saw.

At Jillian Milroe though.

And you know, most of these guys I just watched because I was watching other guys, and you obviously the quarterbacks, so you see them. I just look at Jalen Milroe. Uh, he's such a great athlete and uh he's got some zip on the ball. Like he's not a bad thrower either. That I think you can build an offense with Jalen Milroe. Like, it's gonna have to be specific to Jalen Milroe. It's gonna have to be, you know, similar to what the Eagles do with her, you know, and stuff like that,

Uh.

I think that there's so much raw talent there and raw ability, especially with his athleticism and his mobility, that I'd be willing to take a bet on Jalen Hurts in the second round.

So, Jen, I'll give you a couple fits for Jalen Milroe for me. Yeah, one is the Saints if they move up in the late first right, Kellen Moore just did that with Jalen Hurts. The other one is the Browns because when Jaln Milroe had that breakout your album in twenty twenty three, who was his offensive coordinator? That wasn't Bill O'Brien Nope, twenty three. Oh Tommy Reese, who's

I do I have Will Howard on my list too, as day two obviously as well. I don't know where Milroe is gonna fall in exactly, but I watched his doing like the QB school stuff. Again, he's great on the whiteboard, A smart kid, you know, can conceptually understands the game really well. I thought he throws a great ball like it you know, it's he's a pocket passer's big you know, six foot five, two hundred and thirty

Have that in him move around a little bit.

But I think that he's you know, like you said, maybe I don't know if you know, high floor, but like I just think that you run an offense with him right like you cat, he can really come in and step in and run an offense. Now, he's obviously going to have the concerns if you will, you know, similar to like Mac Jones at Alabama, Like was it just you know, Jamari Smith and all all these different people you know around him.

He was pretty good at at Kansas State. Yeah he didn't have Ye, there's some guys on that team, but not the same level of talent.

Yeah, so I get that concern. Yeah, he's he's got a great offensive line, he's got Chip Kelly calling plays, he's got all worldwide receivers all over the place at Ohio State. But I just like the skill set and I think he's a guy that will make it work in the NFL. Probably won't be a ceiling quarterback. He's probably never gonna be like a top five quarterback in the league, but I think he could be a starter.

I think so too.

Yeah, should we do like Patriots guys? Now, Well, I was just I don't. I don't think the Patriots have any interest in any of these quarterbacks.

I well, they're gonna add a quarterback because Josh McDaniels usually wants foreign camp, so that's they're gonna get their Trace McSorley veteran camp are right, I wouldn't be surprised they draft another guy to have him around imagency emergency third quarterback. Obviously, he's not gonna have the same physical tools as a guy like Joe Milton, so there's less concern there. There's two guys. I look at one and I know you hate this, and I've kind of dumped

Why Luther Burnden is not gonna go in the first round.

Brady Cook in twenty twenty three was a baller. Brady Cook was awesome in twenty twenty three ball stretch. He was really he was better. He was he was one of the best quarterbacks in the SEC. In twenty twenty four. He was better. Teams are gonna look at it and say, what happened in twenty twenty four. If Elliott Wolf wants to repeat what he did with Joe Milton, Okay, we're gonna find a guy with some tools, with some sneaky upside, see if we can flip him. Brady Cook's got some mobility,

I have no appeal for any of them, his quarterback coast thinks, And I have no appeal for any of them.

Churizma.

Now like maybe maybe, like you know, I could get talked into like a Curtis Roke or Brady Cook, like as like a seventh round you do.

That's what I'm saying, Like I'm not taking these guys, Curtis, I think.

To me, kinder Minds reminded me a little bit of like Aidan O'Connell, Like he's just like gonna be like an NFL backup.

Well he also he played all of last year on a twenty cl Yeah.

So if you're looking for somebody that is totally non threatening and is going to just fit into a back of what I'm saying, then Curtis Rourke I think makes the most sense.

Curtis Rourke. Brady Rabel's gonna like Curtis Rourke, excuse me, because he has the intangibs. Let me give you one more quarterbacks.

I think Brady Cook. It not that I don't want to do the whole Juem Milton thing again, but I.

Think Brady He's not on that level.

Brady Cook, though, has is more of like the tools upside.

Yeah, pick here.

Curtis Rourke to me, is if you want a draft Chase Daniel, Like if you want to draft a career backup, who could back up? Who could back up Drake May for the next five years? Like this is Curtis Rurke. That that's Curtis Rourke and Bros. Murder me Brady Cooks a little more. If they want to see if they can flip another quarterback.

Yeah, one more quick quarterback take because I've seen people bring up Garrett Green from West Virginia and Tommy Mellett from Montana State and say, hey, you can bring these guys in. They can be the third quarterback and maybe they can play receiver. Garrett Green's like five to eleven. Tommy Mellett's a smaller guy who was an option quarterback in Atanta State. Again, well, so here's what I'd say. I don't think either of those guys are gonna be

Okay, that's enough quarterback. That's that's there's the last point I want to get out. Let's get to running backs. So we did day one, Day two, Day three. That's how we kind of split this up with each position. This is my guy and a take all in one. Oh boy, okay, you're ready for this. Yeah, So my Day one running back is Travon Henderson because I think Travon Henderson might go in.

The first round.

Okay, because two reasons just for the Patriots are in general, just in.

General, but I also love him.

For the Patriots, it's probably doesn't make sense for them to draft him just where he's gonna go. You know, they at best are gonna get him at thirty eight, right, So, like you know, I think it's gonna be long gone by the time you wrap back around into the third round. But Travon Henderson, to me, for two reasons, I think that he might get drafted in the late fur round. One,

Fast as Jamiir Gibbs.

Like I think Jamior Gibbs had a little bit more juice than Henderson, but Henderson's close. And I think that the best cop for him is probably more like bris Hall than it is Jamiir Gibbs. But I think that he's got some shades of Jamiir Gibbs in his game. And if you're one of these teams copycat League, I would not be surprised if somebody grabs Trevon Henderson thinking that he's the next Jamier Gibbs. And also just quickly Jamier Gibbs got overdrafted.

Yeah, you know, relatively consensus.

He got drafted a lot higher than people expected. So I think that that could also be happening here with trade first.

Round running backs from Evan I love it. Yeah, so I did this more with Patriots in mind. First round guy, Amari and Hampton, you want to make your young quarterback happy. We've talked a lot about trading up from thirty eight for a tackle or a receiver whatever. If he falls, you know, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, move up get him in addition of you know, a tackle or whoever at the top of the first round, and that

I wouldn't be surprised and is going to blow you away. This is just like a like a bold prediction. Yeah right, this isn't an actual take. It's just kind of a bold prediction. I love amar and Hampton. I've loved him since I saw him, you know, last year, But he is more of like a linear runner. He's a little bit tighter hipped he doesn't quite have the game breaking

So my guy on day two, I think people can guess this is Quinn Shawn Judkins. I just think he's I love the way he runs. He's old school man. For the Patriots specifically, though it has to be Sampson. Yeah, I think you put him with Dermandre Stevenson. That's that's just such a dynamic backfield. You're getting a little bit of everything with those two. I think he can probably play that pass catching back role and then do a little bit more on top of that. So for me,

There's gonna be a run of running backs at somewhere in the late third, early fourth round. So that's the cutoff for day two day three, So I don't know how specific you want to get with that.

You know, if r J.

Harvey is there on day three though, like that's my guy.

I think RJ.

Harvey reminds me a ton of Dion Lewis, right, just a low center of gravity, a great jump cut ability, really elusive, thirty two runs of over fifteen yards last year. Explosive guy. I think he's going to be able to do that in the passing game as well. Smaller, like not a volume back necessarily, but I think he's someone that really has a lot of explosiveness and can still

Him as well. I mean, like obviously not when he was here, but like prime time time Montgomery.

Yeah, I can see that too.

I have another converted receiver.

I don't know if he's quite as as bouncy as as Jet McKinnon. Like McKinnon is like a jitterbug. I don't know if he quite has that.

He's more straight line. Yeah, So that's why I kind of thought of Niame Hines. So I'm just gonna because there's so many running backs, I'm just gonna use this opportunity to ask why more people are not talking about Kyle Manong. Guy. I feel like it's Isaiah Pacheco all over again. Yeah, Like, come on, he runs mean, he runs angry, He's faster than people think he can handle himself in the passing game. I really like Kyle mno

It's interesting because you know we're doing our big boards. Douce and I do dueling big boards. And when I started to do the running backs, I don't worry. I put a lot of running backs on there. I know they're gonna draft a running back. We all know it because I put a lot of running backs on there. And I just can't get mister Kraft out of my head. Speedback right? Not not Damien Martinez.

Right, We're not going Davian Martinez would be fun.

We're not going power between the tackles here.

I even I won't. Why not both? You don't think I think there's a real chance they draft two running backs, Yeah, bigger Bowl high.

Like in the four to third fourth, like a Pierre Strown Kevin Harris Reducks, but better.

Yeah, I do you get because the past catching backs are all later unless they want Simpson Samson. Yeah, the pass catching backs all projected to go later. Yeah, I mean get Damien Martinez are an allibordonate one oh six or even maybe at seventy seven, or even Caleb Johnson if he falls right at seven. He said, that's a fall, but somebody's gonna Caleb.

Johnson is a little bit more of his own back by here, and then.

You get that passing down back later. And now you have if McDaniels is going to go back to splitting them. Stevenson Rookie one is your early down, Gibson Rookie two is you're passing down and your set like that's I think that's if it were up to McDaniels. Not if it were up to McDaniels, but like all other things aside, if McDaniels could set the running back room up like that,

Right, wide receiver, Day one, Day two, Day three again at wide receiver. I'm just gonna take this opportunity to do once again to say Travis Hunter is a wide receiver like that, that's.

My I think that's clear.

That's my Day one guy, Travis Hunter, wide receiver. I think one of the big things that has irked me the most this draft season is hearing that Travis Hunter is a raw route runner, Like this is just drive me up a wall.

Show me a college receiver that isn't.

But it's different buckets, right, Like there's wide there's wide receivers that win as technicians, yeah, and there's wide receivers that win because they're built different, Like Travis Hunter is in the built different category.

You know.

I think a lot of the things that you hear about him and read about him as a wide receiver, you know, they right remind me a lot of like Molik Neighbors, Odell Beckham Junior like guys like that when they were coming out that no, if you wanted to put teach tape up of how to run a dig like, they might not be the ones that you would put up on the film, like maybe you'd go up and get like a Ladd McConkey right to run a route and show a sixth grader how to run an out

So Travis is like Genty, like Travis Hunter is Travis Hunter. He's not like my guy because it would be like Travis Hunter. So I'll go to talk about somebody You're gonna put the TEP tape on teach tape on, I'll go Matthew Golden. I'm to keep pounting the table for him. I understand the production is not there compared to your typical first round wide receiver. This is not your typical draft, and I just think he showed up big in the biggest games and I value that.

Yeah, he's a great route runner and he might be in in the doughnut as a deuce, and I have been calling it like right in between picks right four and thirty eight. But if you had to come up with the wide receiver for Josh McDaniels, like, Matthew Golden is kind of that kind of guy because he's a really good route runner and he's a smart round runner, is very technically sound, but he still has a ceiling to him because of his speed and the ball skills. So I like Matthew.

Everybody likes very competitive, like he's I think he's wired right.

So on day two, yeah, I think we're both going to say names that we both really liked. That we're both in contention for my guy. For me, at least, I won't speak for you.

One x one slot.

Uh No, I just had one Day two guy. Oh maybe maybe you could say, but no, I just feel like you're going to say a name and that I I almost said, anyways, Jayalen Noel is my guys. Oh okay, so maybe I'm surprised you.

Thought I was gonna sayway I did? All right, Well, yeah those are the two.

Yeah, so it was between those two. Yeah, you know, similar but different. You know, Jaylen Nowell I think is a pure zer, pure slot receiver. But I just I was blown away by his tape the first time through that I watched it. I was not expecting that kind of athlete or that kind of separator at the third level of the defense. I thought that this was going to be Lad mcconkee, reducs right, like a just a good crafty wide receiver. That's good route runner, that's heady,

The right reasons.

I just felt like I never saw Kyle Williams.

I'll tell you why, because he was like the last guy up on every rep. Maybe that was why you were like mentally checking. I'm telling you, I bet that's what it was. I bet that's what.

I don't remember Kyle Williams being there.

I'll beat you wouldn't know if you watched it on TV that kept cutting away from him. Again.

I literally don't remember him being there.

The honest knocks on Kyle Williams. For me, as big of a fan as I am, his an older prospect. He's a late breakout guy. He has kind of four years old right, twenty three years old. He was decent in twenty twenty three. Last year was the year that he really took off, and his numbers are insane. But this is a guy that can get open at all three levels, can create after the catch. He's probably a little bit of a higher floor, lower ceiling player, but I still think he's a decent ceiling. But I'll take

So I have all three of these guys, you know that you mentioned Higgs and Higgins, like in one tier, I haven't Noel Higgins Kyle Williams, but like I have Noel over Higgins, and I'm surprised that that's not a more popular take. I just think Noel runs her out so a lot more urgency and a lot more dynamic movement, right, Like he's not an outside guy. Yeah, and maybe that's why people just like the size outside with Jayden Higgins. But Jayden Higgins does not play to a four four seven.

Williams is that like he and he's not Travis Hunter. But like what you were talking about before, he just he it's not technical. He just gets open. Yeah, he reads it, well, he moves well all of that. One more day too, receiver before you move on. Yeah, now that you've actually watched, because we've talked about the sky a few times, but I don't think you had gotten him yet, at least not in depth. Saving on Williams. Where are you at with Savian?

I love Save On Williams. I watched him in the in the first run. Interesting, I'm a big fan of Saveon Williams. It's gonna take some creativity, it's gonna take right the right fit in terms of the offensive coordinator to get the most out of him. Like if the forty nine ers took uh Save On Williams and turned him into Deebo Samuel like, he would be a problem. I mean, yeah, that's gotta be the comp absolute problem.

I didn't.

We were not into the draft yet with Patterson, but from well that was eighteen, right, Well that I mean when he was with the Patriots.

Yeah, but you're right, yeah, why do I remember doing a draft show about Cordero Patterson?

But Patterson I don't remember him having the contested catchability and the stuff that save On Williams puts on tape. But Cordero Patterson was probably a little bit faster in a straight line than Savion Williams. But Williams got juice, he's got size, he's got contested catchability. He's just not a great route runner, and he's got a lot of focus drops on tape. He's got way too many drops.

We might have to do early day three, late day three for vers.

Okay, so, uh my late my day three guy, which was kind of a joke and then kind of also serious.

Is it? Uh Thornton? Dante Thornton. No, it was close. He was on the short list. I'm coming around on Nante Thornton.

Okay, so let's do early day three and late so we can get to that. Ted Johnson, I still believe. I will not quit Tez Johnson, I will not quit.

I will not quit.

He's gonna. I think Dante Jordan Thornton is gonna get drafted later, uh than than Tess. I still think Ted is like a fourth round pick.

Uh.

He's quick, not fast. We've confirmed that. Yes, he's tiny, I get that. Uh, he's quick, not fast. I still feel like he's Tank Dell, and I still feel like he is going to overcome all these doubts about him and have a nice NFL career. What he's gonna happen is exactly what's happened with Tank Dell. He's gonna get drafted, he's gonna have it awesome, like first eight weeks of his rookie season, and he's gonna tear every single ligament in his knee and that's gonna be it.

For him the end of the year. And that's a good pick. No.

I just think that he's a good football player and if he.

Can stay healthy, good college football player.

If he can stay healthy, and I know it's amazing major if, but if he can stay healthy, I think he's gonna be a good football player.

My early day three guy, I could go to Dante Thornton kind of coming around. I think he'll go early day three. To me, he's like one seventy five and up.

Yeah, I have a good Dante Thornton Colm for you.

Okay, So, but we haven't talked a lot about this guy. I thought we were gonna talk a lot about him throughout the draft, and we really haven't. I'm still believe in Tory Horton. Yeah, he got hurt this year. That hurt his stock. He probably should have transferred out of Colorado State. I respect him for not doing it, but he probably should have. He's a true X. He plays with some pop, he's hyper competitive. He's worth a flyer.

I think, Okay, that's fair enough. Alright, let's get the Dante Thorton who was on my list, Yeah, a short list. I think it was between him and Tes Johnson, but I wanted to get the Tes Johnson, uh Shenanigans in there. Dante Thorton is the Joe Milton of wide receivers.

No, Savian Williams is the Joe No, I've made this comparison. Williams an interesting player in the draft.

Save On Williams is way more refined as a receiver than Joe Milton.

But he's the most interesting player in the draft. That's Dante Thorpon beside Travis Hunter. Is Joe Milton of wide receivers. Explain it.

He has all of the tools, Like, if you wanted to program a wide receiver in a lab, it would be Dante Thornton. But he's not actually very good at football.

All right, So this is that he's good at all the individual things you need to be good at football. He's not good at football.

He's got legitimate breakaway speed, like not not like, oh, he just runs a good forty breakaway speed. He has a legitimate NFL you know, football speed play speed. He's six foot four, two and five pounds. He's not Taekwon Thornton. He's not one hundred and eighty pounds soaking wet. He's got size.

He's got speed laterally better than Thornton can. Can he get over them? No? All right, well that's a skill.

But he My point is is that there's a ton of raw talent with this player. He played at Tennessee, so that also fits a little bit true. He has a Waukee offense just like Joe Milton did at Tennessee. He runs like three routes. He runs a shallow, he runs an in or it under or a slant, and he runs a go like that's it. That's his entire route. Tree are slants and go balls in the in the occasion, you know, a hitch route as well.

Yeah, right, so those are his four routes.

But he takes a slant, you know, he takes a five step slam, a glance route, skinny post and he takes that thing eighty yards to the house when you hit him in stride with it. And there's only so many people on planet Earth can do that, just like there's only so many people that can throw the ball as far in as heard as Joe Milton. There's only so many people that run as fast as as Dante Thornton.

Look if he can, if the plan is to bring him in and have him be like tamere Bird, Nelson Agilor just running go routes on the side to keep other teams honest, and you're getting him at like one forty something in yeah, and we got it, not not

Yeah, he that that. That's the take with Thornton though, because I think a lot of people, first of all, like I want to hang on.

If they draft a tall, fast guy named Thornton, you know what it takes. He's not saying they're right, but you know what's gonna happen.

He's Dante Smith from now on, because I don't want to hear about the stupid thing about his last name. But I'm just picked a generic last name because all you people are making such a big deal out of the fact that his last.

Name is Thornton.

Again, Thornton's crazy. He's like twenty five pounds heavier than Taekwan Thornton.

Like, he's like, look, you're not wrong, they're different players, but it's gonna be objectively funny.

He to me is like late round fire DK metcalf Right, Like he's He's obviously not DK.

Meckis just twitched up, big.

Fast, big explosives outside of Joe Milton comp I don't hate Oh no, it's he's it's still saving Williams. No, it's definitely not all right. Let's get the tight ends. Ago Wall late late day three Okay, I thought we're doing Dante Thorton.

Oh no, that was like in the middle. No. I have one more guy that's not getting talked about enough. Okay, and I've talked about a lot on Patriots pet I haven't talked a lot about him. Here, Isaac Taslot from Arkansas.

Yeah, he's getting some buddy.

So another guy, big six four two twelve, great straight line speed, excellent job tracking the ball. Sounds like an X right. Yeah, he almost exclusively plays the slot, so you're gonna have to teach him to do some more things underneath. But he's good down the field, he brings good speed, he's great on special teams. This is again a late later pick, one of those one seventy picks. Right, if you can develop his underneath game, you're talking about

Is, but yeah, Yoshavas is like a big slot that can stretch the field vertically up the seam. You know, he's not going to run by people on the outside, but he has enough juice to do it inside.

Uh.

That was that was sort of what I saw. Uh with Tesla, I think you're right though, he's he's picking up some steaks, and.

You know what if you get that guy and he ends up in the one seventies and he ends up being your third wide receiver. Again, this isn't the guy that's going to solve all their wide receiver problems. Yeah, I'm just looking up. So Yoshavas he has sixt three two O five. He ran a four to fourth He ran a four to fourth three. Okay, reduce to slot. Literally ran a four to four three? Did you pull that off? Off? Mock draftable? I mean, you know, did you I do? I did? Okay, I do my homework, Yeah,

Okay, yep, there's your comp All right, let's get to the phones and then we'll come back to the rest of the positions because we still got a little ways to go, and these people have been waiting online for on hold, I should say for a while. Patty is an agu on what's up?

Patty?

What is gentlemen?

So how we doing?

I'm doing good? So I just want to I just want to make it clear, like I'm on record thinking that Hunter and Carter are gonna be gone by the time we pick, and I'm all in on Will Campbell if that's gonna be the pick at for if we can't move down. Actually, I don't like the I don't like the thought of moving down because I think we might miss out and I don't mind Jalen Walker, like if we do move down and miss Will Campbell. But I just wanted to read you guys a couple just

I'm not seeing it?

You know, why why is all this craft coming out now? And you know, I think if we get him Noel, I've you know, I've said this on PU Evan, Noel's my guy. I want him in the second round. If we can get those two guys and possibly Mason Taylor on day on day two, I'll walk away from this draft a happy man, that is, with the caveat of Hunter and Carter gone. And last night I want to touch on Alex Yep little Quick none, your co host

That's it, is that, Brian?

Yeah? Nice? Nice? Uh?

I think, uh, you know, the Carter thing with wingspan or Campbell so many names.

Uh.

The Campbell thing with wingspan is brought up because it's such an outlier, right Like if it wasn't such a major outlier, you know of mock draft, uh, mock draftible had another tackle that was in the same you know, stratosphere as him in terms of our of wingspan, then we wouldn't be talking about it as much.

But it is.

And I think that the number one thing that I keep coming back to with Will Campbell, I've been you know, pretty consistent other than the stupid combine, I've been pretty consistent about about about him playing at tackle and sticking at tackle. And I think the one thing that I would just say about it is that is he going to be Jonathan Ogden? Is he going to be Orlando Pace?

No?

No, he's not going to be one of those types of guys. But what, in my opinion, he's going to be is a very solid NFL left tackle for the future for a long term. And in this draft, in this level of talent class, that's a good.

Pick, and that's a good pick at that.

Position because he is, uh, you know, a comp that I came up with recently I liked a little bit better, you know, like a Jake Matthews type. Jake Matthews is not a future Hall of Famer, he's not a ever been like a multi time All Pro or anything like that.

At that position where there's there's not enough think about it this way, there's not enough human beings on the planet needed to fully staff the NFL for left tackle. Yeah, they're just aren't. So if you get a guy that can do it for eight to ten years at least, who is of that level, maybe not above it, but of that level, that's a win in this draft especially, that's a win. I told Nate Solder Matt Light like, just guys that you're not gonna talk about replacing them.

So I've been looking around for a comfort for Campbell for a while.

It's Jake Matthews.

It is Jake Matthews. Is what I'm settled on. And I'll pull up the number because Jake Matthews. It wasn't quite Will Campbell short in terms of wingspan, but his wingspan was also under under eighty inches, right, So he was on the shorter side in terms of wingspan, on the shorter side in terms of armlane. He's been in the league for eleven years, he's made one Pro Bowl. So this is not this is not Jonathan Ogden, right, like, this is not Joe Thomas. This is not an all

Cool, if that guy was in the raft, I'll tell you to take him right.

It was great to want things right. That's not the talent pool that we're working with. It's irrelevant that he's not that kind of pross just as a hole across the board like, well he's not.

And you hear it with him, You hear it with with Keat McMillan, you hear it with Mason Graham. You hear what the lot he said. If he's not really what you want at the fourth overall pick, Yeah, if Malik Neighbors was in this draft, I'd be pounding the table for them to take him it for right, I would that guy doesn't exist. If you can trade down, great, but if you can't. Once again, you can't just tell Roger Goodell Pencilson for next year, right, we're gonna we're

I don't really understand that reference, but mad for it.

Like, you can upload custom draft, but you can either have it generate one for you, or you can upload custom ones. So some people if they're doing a franchise and like the custom draft isn't good, you can have it. You can either upload one somebody made or just have it create a new one. You obviously can't do that.

So you can just say you can. You can create a new one that has like all ninety.

Nine if you want or won this year lady. But yeah, but then what's the fun in it? All? Right?

Kendall is in North Carolina? What's up, Kendall?

Hey, how you guys doing good?

Hey?

Yes, just but both of y' all want to know what's y'all good feeling right now? I'll have the first three picks to go. And my second question is we visit with a wide receiver today from Auburn. I got his name or y'all familiar with it, and I'll take it up there. I appreciate it.

Thanks for the call, Kendall. My gut feeling right now on one two three. Ward Carter Hunter same, that's my gut feeling. I don't totally buy into, you know, the thing we spent the first twenty minutes of the show talking about with Abdual Carter falling in this draft. I don't totally buy into that totally yet. If it's not Ward Carter Hunter LB, Ward Hunter Carter, I think those three guys are the first three picks in the draft.

Like what are you doing?

Right?

They might end up being right in three years, but like Brian Dable and Joe Shane aren't gonna be there in three years to be right about it, like they're gonna be out. So I just wonder if maybe, you know, they end up just passing. There's a lot of buzz right now on those two teams, specifically, you know, doing their homework on Jackson Dart, doing their homework on Jalen Milrow,

Also, the guy they met with projected late day three picks fast guy from Auburn.

I mean there's a lot, there's a lot of that. Remember Anthony Schwartz.

Oh you you were big on Anthony Schwartz.

Sast guy from Auburn. Yeah, all right, Brad is in Ohio. It's up, Brad.

Hey you doing guys? Hey talk.

A couple of quick days. I want to run by the players, and he looked into them.

I'll just spit some out.

First of all, the cornerback cast and found three ms birk and then a defensive tax was getting west from Indiana and then running back my first pick. He's I've gotten slower running backs like John from Iowa just because I watched him play, and I would like hand junk and from you from the state and tell me he's gonna.

Be a.

Brad.

I got sorry there, Brad, if you want to email us. In the names, I heard some of them. I think he was mentioned Denzel Burke from all.

So Denzel Burke's really interesting one.

Yeah, he's kind of one of those guys that kind of reminded me of like Sean Wade's career arc right where there was a lot of hype for him and then he didn't have the year that the people were expecting last year. The only thing that I you know, I I did watch him, and the only thing that I had a little bit of concerns about was was top end speed, Like, I don't know if he's Yeah, I don't know if he's quite the fastest guy on the outside.

I had a lot of penalties too.

Yeah, and I think that might have been because of that, you know, him grabbing and him getting a little bit antsy. But uh, he he's well versed in different coverages, certainly seen a lot of really good competition over the years. He's kind of a solid guy. I just wouldn't necessarily say that he's got a highest ceiling. He's probably more of a floor.

So I think it's the opposite. He's one of these guys like Bill would have drafted him. Bill absolutely, because one of the things that Patriots would do on Day three, they drafted a couple guys like this. They would go find and this Honestly, this kind of player is gonna sort of become extinct in the draft because of the transfer portal. They would go find the guys that were high ranked recruits where it didn't work out in college for one reason or another and see if they could

I feel like you just you just described Sean Waite like that, like like Sean Wade was really similar to me.

You know.

I also had who was the defensive lineman from Auburn who he went to Florida State and they just ruined him. And then hear No from Maryland. He transferred around to Byron Coward. Byron Coward was the number one recruit in the country, and he forget the order was a Maryland he was at Florida State, he was at Auburn, but like it just the schools he was at did not

Do you remember when Bill dunked on me about Byron Cower? No, I still I still remember that to this day. I forget these are there's certain like little things that happened to me when when I got you know, belichicked early on in my my beat career, and that one like it kind of sticks with you, right, like you kind of remember these things. I misspoke and I said that Coward was like a run player when he was a pass player, or a pass player when he was a

Bill just roasted me. Bill was just like I think.

I said, like, you know, you guys have talked about him being this and it was totally off. And Bill was like, I talked about that, Like.

I remember that.

I didn't say that. Yeah, oh god, was I embarrassed to work. I thought they might have had something.

Yeah.

I those types of things stick with you, all right before we get back to the phone. So let let's try to finish up my guys, because we we we got bobbed down there a little bit with some of these.

Coward is still in the league. Good for him. He's on the Jets.

Yeah, I feel like he'll kick it.

Still hanging around.

So we're at tight end, quarterback, running back, receiver, Day one, Day two, Day three, tight ends. Day one tight End. I put down Colson Lovelan. I just I love Colson Lovelyn's tape. I think that it's a risk, sample size risk. You know, he got injured, he doesn't have a ton

So I'm gonna do kind of what you did with the running backs. Call it top forty, maybe not first round. Yeah, I'm seeing Mason Taylor projected in the sixties. What are we doing. I think he's gonna go much higher than people think. I don't know that he sneaks into the first round. Does he sneak into the top forty, I could see it. He's clearly the third best tight end in this draft. Copycat league. People are gonna want their their brock Bowers and stylistically is a different player, but

Young too, right like twenty right now, he'll be twenty one as a rookie.

Early breakout ton of runway to go.

Yeah, really high upside player, really fast and straight line and you know, stretch the field vertically and horizontally. You know, slide routes, you know, dumpops in the flat, he can turn those into big plays. I think he's got some route running, you know, technique stuff that he's got to work on to be able to win a little bit more on angular routes. You know, I don't think he's gonna you see a ton of like, you know, real angles, you know, slants, digs, you know that type of stuff

Yeah. Those are my two guys kind of in that range and not as high on Fannin for the Patriots. Arroyo is like fine, doesn't again not necessarily a Patriots fit for me. Yeah, Day three though, there's some interesting ones.

All right, give me your day three.

Okay, So my guy for day three is Mitchell Evans. Yeah. I think he's gonna come in be the best blocking tight end right away, and he has the upside to be a plus receiver, but you have a year or two to kind of get him there. Behind certainly behind Austin Hooper is the second tight end, and then you hope eventually he takes over for Hunter Henry as your starting tight end. So I've kind of been on Mitchell Evans for a while. I think he's a good fit

You can never just give a comp like just give a straight comp. But he's not.

He's not as athletic as you used chat and he's not as big as a card.

He's like somewhere in the middle. So who's that wrong? No, but there's a guy on the Chargers.

Oh, well, Matt Locke. He also doesn't play defense.

He's like three hundred pounds.

He might be able to say. I think he's bigger too.

There's another guy though. I look up the Chargers in the second there's it. They have Matt Locke, but they have another guy too, who's like the same kind of guy, because like the Hardbuzz have to have like seventeen of the same kind of Yeah, I feel I feel like maybe that's your Robbie utz Khan.

But I want I want Robbiots on the Patriots. Okay, so help me with his last name? No idea who McCallan Castles? No? Uh?

Is it CJ.

Dipp I think it's Drippy. I think Drippy from Alabama?

Uh, just looking late Day three, you know, six seventh round guy. But if you want a blocking tight end, like just a guy that's gonna be able to come in and be a third tight end and block really well in line. Uh CJ Depri was the most impressive guy. I saw him more than Jackson Hawes.

Yeah.

I really like to pre Hawse. I think has a little bit more of a receiving upside, and it's probably gonna go a little earlier, it would be my guest. But if you're really looking for, like this is a we know what he's gonna be. He's just gonna come in and block on red zone and goal line and short yarded situations, being a third tight end in the league for a long time because he's a great blocker. I think Dupre's here's a comp for you.

It's simple compa Lee Smith. Sure you remember Lee Smith?

Yeah?

Yeah, Lea Smith. He was the the only tight end the Patriots drafted between Rob Gronky. They drafted Gronk and Hernandez. The next year they drafted Lee Smith, and they didn't drafted tight end for like ten years until they double dipped in whatever year that was. Did you get a chance to watch Roonda Gadson.

No, I got to do all the rest of the tight ends. That's that's my I'm still curious thought.

That's one of my last bails to go into the bar, is it. See? I just go in order. I go in like I call it alphabetical order. It's not alphabetical order, but like the order that positions have always been listed in since at the beginning of time.

I try to go in order of the draft board.

Yeah.

So because of all the content that we do surrounding the draft, like knowing the top one hundred is really what I got I need.

To be able to ace, yeah, in.

Terms of the draft. So I literally go through our the mock draft database. I put the consensus board up at each position, and anybody that's in the top one hundred, I just watch all ten of those go okay, and then I watched the next ten, and the next ten and the next I just do.

I guess it's because like I kind of figure out the top one hundred guys just watching college football in the fall. So yeah, I'll go just position by position.

All right, Uh, did you do tackle in into your up?

All right?

So I did tackleing into your offensive line? So day one tackle is Will Campbell. Like I it's I've been on Will Campbell since the beginning. I know that I got a little flaky there for a second, but I've been on Will Campbell since the beginning. I'm not going to come off it now. If the Patriots draft Will Campbell in two weeks, I will not be upset. I'll be happy. I'll feel good about it. I will think they gotta left tackle, so Will Campbell. You know, I

Yeah, I wish I had his middle name to hammer the point home. I don't. I was just looking. I can't find it. William Campbell sounds like a general all right. Day two, Day two. So I still don't think Ariante Airstory's gonna fallah. I don't so when I say this, not including Ariante Airstory in his group. It's Ozzy Trapilla. We have the same because he's he's swing tackle potential.

I think Ozzy Trapla is going to be a starting right tw tackle in the NFL, not before long. I think he's better than Cayden Wallace in terms of a prospect. You know, Cadan Wallas barely played last year. So like right now, if I had to take a bet on who would be a starting right tackle in the NFL, Caiden Wallace or Ozzie Trapillo, I'm taking Azzy but all day, and I just think he's really technically savvy, really good hand fighter. He's got great size at the position, great

He's probably right tackle.

I would agree with that he maybe can play swing tackle early on in his career as the backup, your third tackle, swing tackle, whatever you want to call it. Maybe you let that happen for a year. You know, he develops underneath Morgan Moses for a year, year and a half, or whatever the case may be. As long as Moses can can go, you know, you let him go. I think there's gonna be opportunities. Although Moses has been

Not the last couple of years. Yeah, it's never.

It's never been major, like he's missing an entire season or half a season.

You might need a game or two, might need a game or two.

I think Trapillo could get some chances to play as a rookie that way, and I would take him on Day two of the draft them or probably in the double dip. You know, it would be ideal. My question is is like how long can you wait on Trapillo? Like I think thirty eight is a little bit high, but I think sixty nine is really you're starting to talk about you gotta take them.

I think it's sixty ninety be a good pick. I've said this like, I strongly believe that any players they take in the top one hundred, they need those guys to play this year, and they need those guys to contribute this year. The one exception I have to that rule for me, it's not there role. It's my rule. I guess rule isn't the right word. The one exception I have to that take for me is if they draft a right tackle to be in the pipeline to replace Morgan Moses. And I came up with that take

Agreed day three.

So I think everybody expects me to say haul in Pierce because that's my kind of guy. He's huge, he's massive, he's not necessarily great at football, but he hasn't he can't teach size. I'm actually gonna go away from that. I wouldn't hate Hall and Pierce, don't get me wrong.

I really liked him at the Seapral.

Everybody did.

I mean he had that one spotlight drill in the middle of the field. Who did he go up against? It was a top one hundred rusher? Was Umin me Ellen or was it one of the text I think it's one of text Amain Stewart.

It was an SEC guy.

Yeah if shut him down, Yeah, yeah, you won the REP. So I do like him a little bit. I really like Jealen Rivers from Miami to another Senior Bowl guy that I thought stood ute. He could play, probably play inside as well, you know, played a little bit of both at Miami. It's weird the like com almost went like drive to drive with it at times where he played left tackle and left guard, and he would just kind of flip flop in and out, which was interesting. Uh So I think that long term, you know, he

He mentioned with thirty five of the combine. They're probably closer like thirty eight.

Yeah, he's got freaking tree trunks. And I just think he's a big dude, moves people, great length, a little bit of positional versatility. I just think those are the types of guys that the league needs. You know, every team needs that kind of guy that has the functional strength the as your bulls in versatility. Like, yeah, he might not be you know, he's not going to go to you know, any all pro teams or Pro Bowls, but those types of linemen can be really valuable.

What are your thoughts on Holland Pierce. I just need that real quick.

He's a raw ball clay. He's a big raw ball clay. I feel the same way, almost similar with him as I do with Anthony Belton. Like I think Anthony Belton is kind of three. Yeah, Anthony Belton, I feel like is getting a really hyped up in the in like the media boards and stuff like that for a guy that's got a long way to go and past.

My ceiling cam for him is Trent Brown.

That's he's got a lot of He's he's raw. He's raw. Anthony Belton. I'm surprised by how much Anthony you know, Belton buzz there is.

Yeah, that's usually the guy that I like that nobody else likes. And I'm wondering why he's not ranked higher. Now I'm like almost suspicious that everybody likes him, Like, yeah, this is supposed to be my guy.

All right, So we have a you have any guards or slash centers?

Yeah, I have some interior guys, all right.

Day one grays Abel. I think Gray's Abel is going to be Joe Toney to point. Oh, I think he's going to be a really good football player. He's gonna play guard. I think he's gonna play left guard.

I think Bruger Adam is a center and the Beast today.

Okay, so there's some center flex there. Yeah, and he did some center stuff at the comm at the Senior Bowl. Excuse me, but I think that guard's a little bit more valuable. I think he can play left guard at a really high level. He's going to pass protect at a really high level at that spot, be extremely athletic at that spot as well. But either interior spot, left guard or center, I could see grays Abel excelling at and I think there's a lot of value in that. Do you have any day one, guys.

Yeah, I'm gonna again approaching this from a Patriots point of view. Yeah, and we I think we talked a little bit about this last week. You know, we've talked about tackle, trade up, receiver, receiver, trade up tackle, what about just hammering the offensive line? And some of this take too is I think grays Abel might go too high for them to do this. Yeah, and I know he's a right guard. I would love to see them

I've come around, not I never needed to.

If they did it was able, i'd be cool with it too. But I really like Tyler Booker.

I didn't need to be sold on Tyler Booker, but I just didn't think he was gonna be there, but after the Combine and the fact the intestary.

With DoD Combine. But I don't care like with.

He's an interior offensive line right. But at the same time, you know, you know how teams are, and now Gray Zabel might go ahead of him because he had a better pre draft process than Tyler Booker. Teams might overthink Tyler book Yeah, and I don't think it's totally out of the question that a quote unquote unathletic guard falls to thirty.

I even think of thirty eight. See, so I look at it. The Seahawks are at what eighteen, right, Yeah, and then the Texans are at twenty five. Those are two clear guard teams. Yeah, so I could see them both going in the first round. But yeah, if Tyler Booker is there a thirty eight, you don't have to trade up for him, all the better.

So Seattle not Seattle tends to be uh in love with with the with the numbers, with the measurables. Casario and Houston makes a lot of sense, like Booker.

Yeah, it'sable at eighteen, I think is what I have in my last Monksable at eighteen Booker in twenty five.

They won't overthink Booker, like they won't overthink the combine and all that kind of stuff. You put Tyler Booker and Josh McDaniel's gap scheme like a downhill run Scham, Yeah, that's where happens.

One.

I think that's the other thing with Booker. You know, there's so many uh you know, Kyle Shanahan inspired on outside zone teams. He's not an outside zone's offensive. He's a he's a gap downhill. Get him on a double team, have him pull, you know, like that's what he does.

Imagine the Tyler Brook Booker White one on ones in camp.

I just I think it's great too. Just the fit because Bradberry is a smaller center. Yeah, he's undersized, and he's you know, his play strength is a big concern.

Or even if you're gonna try Cold Strange, there also applies.

Right, So if you put Booker in on when WU on either side of Garrett Bradberry or Cold Strange, like you give them some some girth next to them, that might help the center, you know, be able to handle power a little bit better and be able to hold the middle of the pocket a little bit better. If he's got to just boulders on either side of him,

You don't think city center. I think he's be center.

He's a little tall to be a center, but it's possible.

Team seem to be less bothered by that now and they used to.

I just love moving these guys to guard, like I feel like guard is a There's still a ton of value in pass blocking at guard because you have all these interior defensive linemen that rushed the pass or at a high level, like if you go up against you know, Quentin Williams twice a year and Ed Oliver twice a year.

You just do.

And I think whyatt Milam is gonna be a really good one. Like he's a power oriented player. His game definitely fits a lot better in a phone booth. But he's gonna play really well at guard in the league. And he's gonna have a little bit of tackle feet and tackle, you know, just experience blocking people that I think is going to help him a lot in pass protection.

So that was gonna be my guy again. If they're gonna do the tackle guard boom boom, at the top. Donovan Jackson, I like, yeah, my day two centers obviously, Jared Wilson, I've been very high on him. Limited sample size, but smart player, athletic player, little similar to David Andrews now David Andrews obviously didn't get drafted, but maybe the

He's got some of the most bizarre hand fighting I've ever seen. Like he's like literally like the karate kid, but it works like he gets it done. But like he is, he's like wax on wax off. Like you know, most times you want those stiff hands, like inside hands. This guy's like doing all sorts of like mister Miagi stuff and it somehow gets the job done.

It's it's fun to watch, like.

It's it's a little different, like when you're going through all these tackles. Then you get to him and you're like, oh, this is cool.

This is a little fun. Thirty three and Charms. Don't forget it all right?

Uh day three, Big deal and fairchild guy from Georgia. A pure left guard right He played left guard at Georgia and he's gonna play left guard in the NFL. You were high upside high school wrestler, like all world high school wrestler, and you can see that. You know, he knows how to grapple, he knows how to leverage, he knows how to win with body positioning, can get underneath guys. Very versatile blocker, just in terms of all

Well, there's a lot of good Day three centers Drew Kendall. Jake Majors is a very Josh McDaniels sort of center, very cerebral player. Eth McLoughlin would be really interesting coming off that injury. The guy all mention those center guard is Clay Webb from Jacksonville State. So he was a five star recruit. I believe he's like a high rank recruit. Went to Georgia for a couple of years, wasn't playing

So that's my guys. There's a lot of them in there, but I think you know, those are the guys, uh, you know, on offense, and next week we'll do defense. Let's wrap up the show, get back to the phones, and then we have a ton of emails. I'll try to go through those as fast as we can as well. But Aldrid, our good friend is in North Carolina. What's up, Eldred?

Hey, how y'all doing?

Hey?

Hey, I'm about the receivers. I'm glad y'all talked about my guy do a Doordan, yep, and ever and you're right, you got those three routes, but he beats man Fress only we can do the stay field over the top. But my question is we ain't never developed receive it no matter what coaching cre we have. Do you think they can develop one this year?

I mean, I believe it's kind of one of those things where like I got to see it, right, Yeah, I gotta see it. You know, Todd Downing's background is and quarterbacks, and he kind of talked about this last week that like he'll have them ready and knowing the playbook and all of that, But when it comes to the footwork and the technique, that's where where we're gonna see what they can do with some of these guys. That's right. I think you hope maybe Stephan Diggs helps out a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

And the other thing is they're hosting that that that cornerback I talked about last time. He supposed to be coming to New England like I think today or tomorrow. I got his name, but he's six to two run at four to three forty and I think he objected to go in the third or the fourth round. And I think he's meeting with us today, Ali from I got I think it's I think his last name is Thornton too.

But he's but that girl Ali from Chatsport.

She was mentioned missioned yesterday that people have been meeting today with the Patriot.

He got a thirty visits.

But he's go later in the round though. But there you go, Corey Thorton, Okay.

You go.

I couldn't think of this guy. I couldn't think of his name.

But uh uh, his background coach, he's the one that did Chambers Ward and with Chikov and he got good.

Corners and a good corner coach. But him and I hope we don't sleep on but he's out.

And how did you? Thank you?

Thanks Elder, thanks for the call as always. And yeah, Eldred, uh you know Alex was was first to Kyle Williams. Elder was first to Dante Thorton. He's been on Dante Thornton for a while, so props Eldred. You nailed that one. Well we'll see if he's a good football player in the NFL. But you nailed the draft stock going up?

Who's did you do? You know? Anythink? I don't know, it's not about Corey Thorton.

Yeah, all right, Uh, Alex is in DC. What's up Alex?

Hey guys, thanks for taking the call.

No problem.

Uh.

So, yesterday Batards set on his podcast citing a scouting report by Bob McGinn of The Athletic that of Duel Carter has some character concerns that he's a bit of an a whole high maintenance, isn't a hard worker. Have you heard anything about this? Do you have any concerns around Carter? And do you give any weight to what mcginnon says since he's the same guy that said barmore head character concern.

Thanks for the call, Alex.

Yeah, we actually talked about this exact thing at the top of the show, So I don't want to go too long on it, but you can go back and listen to some of that. You know, we we talked to in depth about it. You know, I don't have much more.

To add to that, so now I just say go back to the top of the show.

Yeah, absolutely, all right, let's get into some of these emails. We have a ton of them. I am a little disappointed in the listeners though, and I'll get to that. And here in a second, stopping me to the listener. No, no, I'm not being mean to them. I'm just a little disappointed that there's no emails about our are I'll get to it in a second, but just a couple of questions.

Yeah, it's and I think we're going to see a similar run this year because there's still that shortage of tackles and that shortage alignment. No I'm not caught. Maybe one of them gets there. You're certainly not gonna have your choice. Maybe one of them gets there. And honestly, if Simmons is the one that falls, and they'll know what internally like externally, I worry that the medicals aren't good. Yeah, if Simmons is the only one that falls. I look

And look, I like we say all the time with trades, and I've been kind of pounding the table about how hard it might be to trade back in this draft before trade it takes two to trade tango with the trade, but I think it's worse a team to trade out with you, Right, I should.

Be able to trade up because every everybody wants to trade down. This is what we're talking about. A Ford. Nobody wants to trade up. Everybody wants to trade down. If you're trying to trade up, you should be in good shape. Uh.

This is a good question from Ashton in Canada. He writes in about Jaden Higgins and Ted McMillan. This is something that we've talked to a little bit that like Ted McMillan is kind of Day one and Jayden Higgins is sort of the early Day two X in this draft. And he was just asking, you know, if we felt like there's a chance that Jaden Higgins is a better pro than Ted McMillan, and like, kind of whatever, the you know, who is better at what in certain areas.

Yeah, Like I don't necessarily.

See that speed or that ability and that fluidity after the catch that McMillan has out of Higgins, and I think that that might elevate his ceiling. But in terms of what they do in their routes, in the way that they play, in the way that they win, the fact that both of them are probably going to have to play a little bit in the slot to get some vertical stretch out of them, I think they play very similarly. I think they're kind of comparable in a

I think his ball skills are also a little bit better. I mean, they're both good in that regard, but that's why Yet's projector goes high as he has got unbelievable balls.

Yeah that's fair, all right, you want to play a quick would you rather game?

Oh boy, here we go. Yeah one.

Have the Patriots trade back the fourth page to trade back up in the or trade back up in the first round. So would you rather trade back from four or trade up from thirty eight?

Up from thirty eight?

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm up from thirty eight as well. Have Giodd Campbell or Walter Nolan fall to thirty eight?

Oh? John Campbell, Yeah that's not even close.

Yeah, Walter noan.

I like Walter Nolan, but like John Campbell in Rabel's defense, would be unbelievable.

They have, they have the three technique, they have Milton Williams.

Yeah, yeah, that's part. I don't think they need another. I feel like that was disrespectful to Walter Nolan the way I reacted, But like, I like Walter Nolan, but like John Campbell is so freaking good.

I didn't spend a ton of time on Walter Nolan just because of where he's gonna go and and the fact that the Patriots Simon.

Milton will see him plenty when he's in Buffalo.

I thought he was a little streaky, like it's a little hot and cold on the tape, for me personally. You know, there's moments where you're like, wow, like there it is, and but then there's like stretches of games where he kind of just was there like and just kind of running into the line of scrimmage.

You want my defensive tackle take, Yeah, Kenneth Grant's the second best defensive tackle in the draft. And I think Kenneth Grant projected first round pick. I still think people are sleeping on him.

Good athlete, yeah, Jalen Walker Mason Graham at four.

I'm going jail Walker Walker.

Yeah, Jalen Walker, more versatile, better.

Player, fits a need better Yeah, Jalen Walker.

Have Gray's Abel or Marian Hampton fall to thirty eight?

Ooh, that's a good one. Hmmm.

I'm going Hampton.

Yeah, I'm siding with the quarterback on this one. You can get a guard later on. I'm going Hampton.

It's a little bit more value even at running back.

Yeah, I'm going Hampton. That's a close one though, Yeah, I could be. I could be. There's an argument for Zabel. That's a good question.

Okay, so this is this is more open ended, but what player with the first round grade are you predicting the fall what player with.

The first round gride? I gotta like pull up the list real quick. Hang on, I don't know if I thought of something similar. Say what you're gonna say that I thought of something similar.

I don't know if everybody's gonna call I technically feel that he's a first round grade kind of guy. But Luther Burden falling out of the first round, Luther Bird.

Would be one very likely. Mike Green would be another. Yeah, So what I was thinking is kind of I'll say I had Mike Green at like twenty eight. I think my last mock, so I'll say Mason Graham's are going to go in the first but every mock right now has him like six is his floor. I think you get down like nine or ten. Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Here's what I was gonna say. I was thinking about this week. I was gonna write something about it later on,

I mean, I had to trade on Henderson thing earlier, Like I feel like that could happen. Yeah, but I don't know if that's like quite on Michael Pennock's level.

It's more r nabs, right, but just completely out of nowhere.

I think Milroe in the first round would be kind of a stunner. Now he's invited to the draft, so obviously there's there's some ruzz that he might go in the first round, but that, to me, I think would be a little bit of a stunner, like where he was at the end of the college football season, Like he's made that much ground up, you know, in the pre draft process, and now all of a sudden he goes in the first round.

I'd be pretty stunned about that. Yeah, So I was gonna say, like Millroe going like top twenty, Yeah, and maybe it's a trade up. But yeah, the other oh, the other one I had it. I put this in my last mock. I don't think I'm alone in this. I've seen a couple other people do it, but like

But all right, speaking of receivers, then I have my little thing I want to get you here at the end.

Uh.

Will Wrights in and mentions that there just haven't been a ton of buzz about Patriots thirty visits with wide receivers specifically, I think Jalen Noel.

Or Noel Yeah, I got that.

I think he's maybe been reported now that he's.

Come in and posted himself in the bill.

Right, all right, but we haven't. We haven't seen you know, Golden Murden, McMillan and Will just ask like, do they always draft based off the thirty visits?

No, definitely not pretty rare. Ac Yeah, I think all visits thirty combined Senior Bowl? Was it last year they like for their picks? Yeah, before that, I think it was two.

It's very it's a it's a low percentage. There's a lot of intel information gathering that goes on at these types of things that isn't anything beyond just doing your due diligence on players. I'd also mentioned with the thirty visits. Uh, you're just getting what's leaked, so you don't know. We don't know all thirty guys.

Ta Thornton was one we didn't known till after the draft we met with them.

I remember also, you know, Christian Gonzales, like they sent at the time Drawd Mayo out to like personally spend like a weekend with Christian Gonzales in Oregon, uh, before the draft, and nobody knew about it, you know, and nobody knew about it till afterwards. So I would just caution that, you know, don't overreact to the thirty visits. Yeah, all right, last thing here, you and I got got put on blast a little bit on social Like we got put on blast a little bit. I think it's

Which is banks on the idea that they want Sanders.

Yeah, which banked on the idea that they want Sanders, then that means that the fourth overall pick is going to be Shador Sanders. So you are now selling the fourth overall pick for a quarterback, which in my opinion changes the value of the trade.

Yes, right, not your opinion, that's generally how it's done. Yeah.

So if it's Shador Sanders going at four, and that's who's gonna go at four, that means if the Raiders want you door Sanders, if the Saints want you door Sanders, Steelers, if the Steelers want you door Sanders, if any of these teams wants you to door Sanders, then they need to get up to pick four to get Shador Sanders, which just inherently will increase the mark.

As a quarterback tacks.

It's a quarterback tax. And so when I heard that trade proposal, it didn't feel like enough, and I still don't feel like it feels like enough. I want to trade down if you can. If Harder and Hunter aren't there, I would trade down, But I'm not trading down just to trade down.

It's gotta be worth while.

It's gotta be worthwhile, And just the last thing I'll say on it, I would be pretty disappointed if the Patriots came out of this draft without one of Carter, Hunter, Campbell or Membu.

Like I'll put Jalen Walker in there.

I feel like all four of those guys. To me, I want one of those four guys in the first round. Now, if you can still get that guy by trading down, then I get that there's a ton of value.

I'm not super confident that all four of those guys make it tonight, and I'll put Walker in there. But I think for the grading it as a whole, they're all similar. But for the Patriots, specifically Ted McMillan, Mason Graham, Taler, Warre and those guys are a step back. So and I think that's just what it comes down to. Like, and some people put it in the replies to that video, like I'm just a little less confident in some of those guys falling, and it doesn't mean I wouldn't do.

Yeah, I would just be really careful. This is a draft to me with the Patriots, they have to nail their first round pick.

They have any draft, but yeah.

But they but this is a big draft for them. It's a big draft, and I have to nail that pick. I wouldn't get cute with it.

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

And all of a sudden, when you start trading down, I'm not saying don't trade down if the trade down is there, and it's the value is there for the pick, but we're not bit don't trade down just to trade down. Yeah, because you're gonna put yourself into a position in a weaker top of the draft that you might not nail the pick.

If you believe in a guy, take them, if it's like, well, you know, I feel more comfortable at nine than four, then you don't really believe in the player, right, And if you don't believe in any of the players truly, which you might not in this draft, and that's Hunter and Carter off the board obviously, then like, yeah, just by defaul, you have to believe in one more than the rest. So just that's the guy.

I just I keep coming back to the same thing with them. You have to be careful about the fact that this is a you gotta be able to get on base with this pick. Yeah, And I just I'm not jones in to just give away the pilk and.

That's it to be fair. In twenty twenty three, they knew the board, they knew they can move down three spots and still get Christian Zales, and we gave them a ton of praise for that. Yeah, if you know, if you read the board, and you know, and this is including teams that might trade up, and like Miami's lurking there at thirteen. They're a trade up team for a tackle. They worry me. The Bears are a trade up team for an offensive lineman. Certainly the Colts might

Yeah, absolutely, all right. So that does it for today. We'll be back next week. We're gonna do my guys on defense. We'll try to get the more of the phones and the calls and the emails and stuff. I know you guys emailed in a ton of we didn't get it to a ton of them today, so I apologize for that. But before we sign off, confidence is important to have when you're on the road with Bridgetone tires,

Bye.

Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, please rate and review us. Listener comments and ratings help keep us high on the podcast rankings so new listeners can find us. Be sure to check patriots dot com for more news and more podcasts