This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex Barth and Lazarre.
Hell everybody nailed it, joined us always by our Bara.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars I.
I know Ben Jonson's a nerd and they don't like running guys the way they operated in Detroit. I think he may be one of these nerds that is a little softer on the running back thing than everybody else. But you will disown that guy so fast from the nerd community.
Yeah, if you take a running this is what you you you if you want until they you dumb nerd stuff and then you just own them and you.
Say, because it's not like a nerd, but all do, but this isn't.
That's not nerd. Of they didn't do it, neither team they Yeah, you're right, Jaguars not exactly full nerd. Trading up and giving up capital is not usual. No, No, that's a RAMS thing. A lot of value in the picks is actually more of a nerd thing. But that's okay. Travis Hunter not a running back last time I checked. Colston Lovelin not a running back last time they're.
Coting to play Travis Hunter both ways full time is a pretty big nerd thing because you're not accounting the human element of stamina. You're just looking at what the data tells you he can do.
Because Travis Hunter has had no success at a high level of football, doing.
Is the NFL is a little different than the Big twelve.
Anyways, Travis Hunter, Jaguars Catch, excited to do it. This is not Jaguars Catch. So hello everybody. On that note, Hi, Hello, Evan Lazar, Alex Barth with you for the next couple hours here a very special exciting show today, post draft show, big show for us, and I just want to lay
out the agenda here today. Alex and I are going to do our normal show for the first like hour forty hour, forty five minutes here today, and then at the end of the show you're going to want to stay all the way to the end because yesterday we were able to sit down with Dan Brugler from The Athletic the Beast himself and discuss the Patriots draft class and why Dane ranked the Patriots as the best draft
in the entire NFL. So we're jam packed today, so that means calls and emails I'm not sure we're going to get to those today because we want to go pick by pick through all eleven picks, and then obviously you guys all want to hear what Dane has to say at the end of the show as well, So we got a lot to get to. On that note, I do want to start with just our big picture thoughts on the draft, and I would just start by saying, we're all very excited about what the Patriots have done
this offseason. We're all very optimistic about this ero with Mike Rabel and Elliott Wolf and Ryan Cowden and Stretch and the whole gang and draft they put together was fantastic. And I'm not that's not Sunshine dot com Like, I really thought it was a great draft. Yeah, I thought it was a great draft that they had. That said, I do want to keep expectations a little bit in check. I hear a lot of playoffs conversations right now about
this team. Yeah, we're let's see what the team looks like in training camp in the preseason before we start talking about playoffs. All right, It's we got a ways to go until that's, you know, back to back four win seasons to playoffs. But they're headed in the right direction.
The most encouraging thing I thought from a big picture standpoint with this draft, Alex was the feel for the board, and the feel for the board married with UH getting their needs checked, but also doing it with the board in mind right and not reaching for need or missing runs on positions of need or anything like that that maybe we saw a little bit of in the twenty four draft. The twenty five draft, it seemed a lot more. To use Elliott what Wells word organized, Like, they felt
more organized. The draft made more sense. It felt more routine for them. So when he came out and said this was more organized this process, it showed you could feel it. It was tangible. There was evidence of it being more organized. So that's all very exciting. Like I said, we'll get to the individual picks as we go here today, But what were your big picture thoughts on the draft?
Yeah, kind of the same thing. I thought. The biggest thing that stood out to me was the big debate beyond the players themselves, Like the big philosophical debate for me for the Patriots in this draft was drafting for need versus best player available, and then how much should you value premium position. How much ald premium position factor into that? And I thought they walked the line between those two things incredibly well. You know, you look at
their first pick and Will Campbell. That was not to say he wasn't arguably the best player available, you know, for what they had, but you know, ash Gent, he would have been the pure best player available pick. Right, We've talked about that. But they go out, they address their biggest need at a premium position right off the top, and then what do they do. They come back at pick thirty eight, and that was a pure best player
available pick if Luther Burden wasn't on their board. And you could debate whether or not that's right, but I think we all kind of assumed they weren't going to draft Luthor Burden. So if Luther Burn's not on their board, there's a real argument they're right there at Trevion Henderson's just best player available, so you know, and they kind
of went back and forth on that. And I thought the other thing is they did a really good job of supporting Drake may I thought this draft helped out Drake May a ton and I said this a lot into the lead up, and I'll say it again, what's best for the football team is what's best for Drake May and vice versa. At this point, Drake May is their best asset. They need to maximize him. They last
time they draft a quarterback. Now there were other issues there, but last time the draft a quarterback, they did not do that. This felt like them doing that, especially after free agencies and people were nervous, and I get why, Like they signed all these defensive players and didn't at Morgan Moses. I think the ones true starter they added in free agency on offense, which is fun, step on to roll, like the initial Waight Yeah, Stefan Diggs just a good point. But like I think a lot of
these picks. You know, you go out, you get a really good yards after catch receiver, you get a three down running back who's a home run threat. You get obviously starting left tackle, right, starting later, starting center. So I think that they did a lot to invest in Drake May. Now May has to prove that those investments are worthwhile, right, which we all think he can do. But they invested in Drake May, which I love.
All Right, let's get to it. Let's get to the nitty gritty. Yeah, you it's not waste any time here today deliberating big picture thoughts. But I think the we've talked so much about Will Campbell over the last five months. Yeah, I don't have a ton to add on Will Campbell, So I don't want to spend a ton of time on Will Campbell. I do feel like though, you know, I'm writing our future series that we'll have on every pick, all eleven picks. We're gonna start rolling those out soon
on the website. And I have talked to his offensive line coach at LSU, Duke Mannyweather, some other people that have worked with Will Campbell have been around Will Campbell. I got to spend ten minutes with him even on Patriots Unfiltered last week. So I've now that I've gotten to know him a little bit just from talking to people in his life. I understand the intangible even more.
And we talked a ton about the intangible stuff. We talked a ton about the tangible the football on this show, and we have deliberated and debated all the different pros and cons and poked every single hole in Will Campbell's
game that we possibly could. But what I think I keep coming back to his offensive line coach Brad Davis at LSU told me that he re established the culture of the LSU offensive line room, you know, in terms of work ethic and competitiveness and putting in those extra you know a couple minutes you know, after practice and in the weight room and in the film room and in the cold tub and in the you know, with the doctors and the nutritionists and like all these different things.
And when you start to think about it, and his offensive line coach even pointed out to me that he actually spent a lot of his own money, his NIO money, on working with specialists, you know, physical therapists, trainers, you know,
things like that. This guy, as he as Dave has put it to me, has been a pro for like two or three years already at LSU because he's been conducting himself that way and completely re established or built the culture back up from twenty nineteen when they won the Joe Moore Award, you know, Joe Burrow and Jefferson and had a great offensive line in twenty nineteen, they took a little bit of a step back for a
couple of years. Will Campbell arrives on campus and then they are, you know, one of the better offensive lines in the country from that point on. So as much as I feel like fans here, let's talk about all this leadership and and tangible stuff, And they say, well, if that's the first thing you're saying about the player, then he might maybe is he not really that good of a football player?
Three months talking about how good of a football player.
This is on top of the fact that he is a really good football player, And that's what gets you as an offensive lineman or as last year, I heard a lot of the same things when I did the feature on Drake May It's that's how you get to be the number four overall pick. You don't go number four overall most of the time simply just because you're an overwhelming talent. A lot of the time you go for overall because of the entire package that you bring to.
The table a program player. Yeah, and I think that's what they're getting in Will Campbell. And you're, like you said, we've covered him extensively for last four months. I don't know how much more there is to really add at this point, but I'm with you in the sense that you know he's going to be good for the program. I don't expect there to be much of a learning curve with him in terms of, you know, being a rookie,
being a kid and figuring things out. I think he kind of has it all, you know, outwardly, it seems like he has a lot figured out at this point, which is very impressed at twenty one years old. That's the other thing I'll remind people because I think you hear so much about his leadership and his experience and this and that, but you know, people talk about I think people don't realize he just turned twenty one in January.
So this is a young guy. And from a football standpoint, like, wow, you could have yeah, breaking thing, no idea, what do we do it? From a football standpoint, he has a lot of room to get better physically because he's only twenty one.
Yeah, that's a good point and something that I've gravitated towards. And this is not just because they've done it a lot recently, but you know, I've gravitated towards the young breakout, the true junior declare is like those types of guys. And now the Patriots have had three in a row.
Christian Gonzales, Drake may, Will Campbell, and those are the guys that have that upper echelon, blue chip level talent and they break out early, and then they're able to come out early and then go to the NFL at a young age, and that that's where Will Campbell's at. You have something else to say, Oh, all right, let's move on. I don't want to talk too much.
About you spend because we've got a lot of players to get to him. We've talked about it.
We've spent five months talking about Will Campbell. All right, next pick here, Travon Henderson from Ohio State, running back, thirty eighth overall. A couple of things that stand out to me about Trevon Henderson when I watched him pre draft. First of all, you mentioned it off the top home run hitter. Right, This is a guy that can take a pass behind the line of scrimmage from sixty five yards out and house it and put it in the end zone. Did it against Oregon, did it against Texas
and the college football Playoff. So we're not talking about him doing it against you know, Long Beach Polytech, right, We're talking about him doing it against a big time competition with other fell players on the field. The other things that stood out to me. I think he's a really loose or fluid mover in space. I wouldn't say that he's a jump card jump cut artist.
Like.
I don't think he's overly elusive necessarily, but what he is is very you know, dynamic in his movements, and he can create separation as a receiver. He can get out in space and he can either eliminate pursuit angles or run through tackles or things of that nature. I think that he's one of those players that's in a similar mold, you know, if you want to, we always talk about like ceiling, realistic comps, floor comps. Right for these types of players. The ceiling of this archetype is
Jamier Gibbs. I think he's the right now, at least in the NFL. He's the top guy in this mold in what Trayvon Henderson is hopefully going to bring to the Patriots, the realistic comp that I made for him. And again this is all, this is not all. The Patriots drafted this guy, so now I'm gonna gast him up. Was Breese Hall with the Jets, right, A guy that can do both, that can run the football, catch the ball, out of the backfield, big play threat whenever he touches
the football. So I look at those two backfields David Montgomery and Jamier Gibbs and Braylan Allen and Breese Hall in New York, and I say, Ramondroe, Stevenson Traveon Henderson. So I know a lot of people have talked about his pass protection. He is a very good pass protector, highlight the underselling, high level bits, pick up guy, no doubt about it. I love that element of his game. I think that's a really big part of getting him on the field on third down early on in his career.
So I'm not underrating it or trying to make little of it, but almost like with receivers, you're not drafting him to block, Okay, you're drafting him to house the ball from seventy five yards out like that. That's what you're hoping to get with the player. And when you take him thirty eight overall, that's what you're hoping to get out of t On Henderson. So I'm very excited that one they looked at it and said, we need big plays on offense, we need explosiveness on offense, and
this certainly did it. As did Kyle Williams. But I'm also really excited about the pairing with Remandre. I think the two of those guys together are thunder and lightning. Like they have a power downhill back with Remandre and now they have a real explosive back with Traveon.
Henders, and they can kind of get back to that early down passing down back thing too. Certainly, both guys are relatively rounded. I think Henderson's incredibly well rounded. But that's the interesting thing. Like people are gonna compare him to James White. That was a lot of it after the draft, and I think he can play that James White role, but he can do it differently because he's a better traditional run player than the players the Patriots
have usually had in that role. James White wasn't somebody you were getting under center and handing it off to in the a gap, right, There wasn't a ton of that. And look, it was because they won the Super Bowl. But like if you remember in twenty eighteen, one of the big storylines that year was based on the running
back usage the offense becoming too predictable. I think they were running the ball like sixty something percent of the time when Sony Michelle was on the field, which again they won the Super Bowl ultimately whatever, but they don't exactly have the offensive line now that they had then. So what Tradeon Henderson does is he removes some of that predictability and Ramonder Stevenson to an extent as well,
because he's gonna handle himself in the pass game. He's not quite the receiver Henderson is, but he's not somebody all right, well, Henderson's in the game, you know, because you're seeing in the huddle, you're not seeing it as a defense. When they break to the formation. You know, James White goes in the huddle, all right, let's go light,
you're gonna pass. Let's get ready to match up. Henderson could be in the huddle and you're thinking, all right, they're going pass, let's go nickel, let's go dime, whatever. And now they come out under center and they motioned the tight end in and suddenly they're ready to run power or something like that. So you weren't necessarily doing that with guys like James White, or guys like Danny
Woodhead or guys like Shane Vereen. So as long as they've kind of done this dichotomy of early down passing down. The early down back is usually the lead back, and he's the guy that's gonna be on the field more. So this might look a little different where I think it'll still be early down passing down, but the passing down back is going to be the lead back. He's the guy who's gonna play more. I don't think Henderson's a feature back. That was the big concern at High
or one of the big concerns Ohio State. He had some durability issues early in his career. That's what part of the reason they went out and got Quinn Shawn Judkins in the transfer portal. But I don't think Henderson needs to be a feature back. He's not somebody that needs to carry the ball three hundred times in a season to justify that pick. So, but lead back means
he's gonna get the majority. He's gonna be the starting running back, if you want to call it that, even though you know he is not necessarily gonna start every game. But I think he can be the lead back wherez Stevenson will still play a significant role, but it might not be as big. He might be the second running back on the roster.
So It's interesting because I agree with you, and I've heard a lot about him as receiving ups and yeah, that's certainly a big part of it. He averaged over eleven yards per catch at at Ohio State for his career. Like I said, awesome, pass protector, awesome and blitz pick up. But I don't think it's correct or fair, I guess is the better word. I don't think it's fair to call Henderson a receiving back. I think Henderson is a true change of paceback, like he's a true speedback, change
of pace back. And one of the things that I've been thinking about with this pick is that we have seen especially last year, and maybe it changes with Josh McDaniels and as they get this thing up and running and they have better players around him. But there's no doubt about it in my mind that Drake may is more comfortable in the shotgun than he is under center.
And that's just the nature of the beast. With these young quarterbacks these days, they're all in these spread offenses, these air raids, these RPOs, things like that, Like they're all doing the same stuff in college football for the most part. So that's the beast, right now you have to be able to cater your offense to that type of team. And if the Patriots are going to be a gun run team, if they're going to be heavy in that respect in terms of shotgun versus under center split,
then I love Ramandre Stevenson as a player. I think last year was a blip. I think he's a better player than what he showed on tape in twenty twenty four. But he's not necessarily a gun run back. Gun run backs are water bugs. Gun run backs have great speed instance stop start acceleration because they don't get a run
up to the line of scrimmage. Like if you're under center and you're in a power eye or whatever and the back is all the way, you know, eight yards in the backfield, then they have that run up to the line of scrimmage to come up and hit the line of scrimmage harder. When you're in the gun, you're at a standstill, you're sitting offset to the quarterback, and you don't have that run up. So you need to have guys that have really good explosiveness and really good
ten yard splits. You also want guys that can dance, you know, out of early penetration and things like that. So when I start to look at the way they might build this offense under Josh McDaniels with Drake May and think about the Travon Henderson pick, Travon Henderson is a classic gun back, like, he's a classic gun run
RPO read option that type of running back. So if they're going to lean into that sort of way of doing things offensively, then they needed somebody in this mold like they needed somebody that could do that sort of thing. I am sure. I just we've both had Josh McDaniels in our football worlds for a very long time. I am sure there will be a time and place where it's gonna be Remondra Stevenson in the power eye with a full back in front of Yeah, there will be
a time and place for all of that. But my guess is that we are going to see a lot more shotgun than maybe they did with McDaniels in the past. And you know, if that's the case, then this is the type of running back that fits that type of mold.
My guess is, when I was just kind of looking up some usage how McDaniel's split running backs in the past, my guess is, once they get it going, and maybe they east Henderson into it, we'll see, depending on where he's at a camp. But like, if they get it where they want to get it, my guess is it's going to be like sixty forty Henderson.
Yeah, I'd call it.
Fifty five thirty five with the other ten percent going to Gibson or Lean laris In or somebody.
And that's basically what it is in Detroit at this point, is that Jamir Gibbs is the featured back, but it's not necessarily the volume that you might see it for. You know, true Bell.
Caek So feature to me is bell cow I used this terminology earlier. I don't know if this is like how everybody does it. This was his mine. So feature back is remember that they asked Bill about they Corey Dillon in two thousand and four. Feature back is Derrick Henry. Feature back is right. Lead back just means the majority, but he's not, okay, like a heavy usage.
That's but I.
Would That's That's where I'm at with Henderson. I don't think he's a feature back, but I think he'll end up being the lead back.
Yeah, I agree with you, I really again, it's a stylistic thing to me more than anything that if they're going to play that kind of authensic cater to Drake May, then he's their guy.
He's the type of guy we're going to go under center. More like, they still needed speed even from under center. They needed more speed, especially at that position, and they got more speed and breakaway ability.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, speaking to speed, this is a good pace. We're not we're not getting bogged down too much yet we will.
We're twenty minutes in two picks. Okay, we're doing ten minutes a pick.
Yeah, not bad Like normally this would be like us deliberating a pick for like twenty and.
It'll also get a little shorter as we go. But I do want to get to the udfas. Don't want to make sure we have time.
For me too. All Right, the next pick, I'm gonna do a golf clap. I want you to take a victory lap. I want you to go ahead. I'm going to clear the decks for you right now. Kyle Williams six ninth. Overall, nice, nice to the Patriots from Washington State, and I'm doing the golf clap. Yeah for Alex here because you told me about Kyle Williams before the Senior Bowl. This was your guy. You were on it, and he just quickly crept up the board or not so quickly, honestly.
It was just kind of all of a sudden, like two weeks ago.
Yeah, like steadily is a better word. Yeah, crept up the board. Great Senior Bowl week that I slept on. Feel bad about that.
I'm telling you next year, just remember this. The last guy up in the reps. Yeah you don't, because you're like onto the next thing, right, Yeah, the last guy up in there, because I'm guilty of this a training camp. The last guy up in the reps. You gotta pay attention to. So because he just lapped.
Up like every sneaky sneaky good Senior Bowl when ESPN was going commercial and everybody comes out of the Senior Bowl week asking of Jalen Nole for rightfully, so he had a great week. He's a good player. I still like Jalen Nole a lot, and nobody you know, he was kind of still gotten a little bit. There he goes to the combine, he puts down the four to four. Then people started to rewatch the film maybe or even just get to the film in general. Like me that was late to it. I will give it kills me.
It pains me to do this, like one percent of the credit to Chris Simms, because Chris Simms came out and ran ranked him as like the second best receiver in the class, and everybody said, whoa, Kyle Williams second best receiver in the class? What am I missing here? But nobody, nobody was earlier to Kyle Williams than this man.
The Washington State coaching staff was we got to get that credit. But from a draft point of view, yeah, I And again we'll have that interview with Dane later and I actually kind of asked him about why maybe that was. And there's a couple different reasons, but the big thing for me to get to Kyle Williams's pick. I won't go back and read through the text I sent you on.
January enough stroking your ego twenty fifth.
When I said, why is this guy eight hundred on the consensus board? What am I missing? Eight hundred on the cons his sport. But the big thing for me, so I think part of the reason he went later he's a late breakout player He's at UNLV for three years, transferred to Washington State in twenty twenty three. He had a solid year, he had eight hundred yards, like he wasn't bad, but last year goes off top ten in
the nation and receiving all of that. And I actually, and I wrote about this on ninety eight five the sports sub dot com if people want to check it out. I actually I asked him after the pick, like, what changed for you? Right? Did he focus on something or emphasize something in his game to allow that breakout season happen? And he mentioned after the catch specifically, he said he
wants to extend plays. He specifically said being able to turn a five yard hitch into a sixty yard touchdown, a three yard screen into a sixty yard touchdown, which he.
Literally did at Washington State. Right, one was against Syracuse. In the other one, I'm blanking on the team he was playing against, but he.
Literally Syracuse one was a slat. But I know you're what you're talking about. Yeah, So he went from averaging five point five yards per carry in or five point five yards after the catch for his career. That number jumped to eight point four in twenty twenty four. The Patriots meanwhile ranked twenty fifth as a whole in yards after the catch in the NFL last year the wide receivers alone, so as a team they averaged five flat
after the catch. The wide receivers alone averaged four, So Kyle Williams last year Washington State was more than double that. That's why I love this pick. He's going to be able to play all three spots X Z slot he gets open, he has separation metrics improved a lot last year as well, and then because he gets so open, he can run after the catch. Now it's one year of production, so he's a little less proven and I don't think the drop issues are as big as some
people are making them. But he's not exactly the most short handed guy, so that's why he fell. But if they can get that figured out, and by the way, I think him working with Stefan Diggs is going to be amazing because there are some similarities there. Certainly, at least to me. I think he's a guy that can be maybe a low end number one, certainly a high
end number two. I you know, doesn't quite have the size to be that true like number one X guy, but just his ability to create after the catch, which he clearly worked on a lot last year. They desperately needed that. I don't know the last time. The reason, Like, I'm so nervous to say I like, I feel like they're in a position to maximize Kyle Williams. Yeah, and I'm nervous to say that because we've seen how it's
gone for wide receivers the last few years. But I don't know the last time they had a wide receiver with this makeup. Like, he's not the big slot, He's not Jalen Polk, he's not a contested catch X. He's not Jaevon Baker, Nikhil Harry. He probably profiles closest to Pop, But Pop's not going to be outside playing the X. Pop's not running you know, some of the deeper rats that he's running. So this is the kind of wide receiver we've wanted them to invest in for a long time that they just haven't.
Yeah, and he's a great fit for Josh McDaniels, who I agree that. You know, one of the things with the draft is there's always these coin flip decisions, right, Like they pick Kyle Williams. I had Jalen Nole in full disclosure, I as with a higher grade than with Kyle Williams, you know, higher up my rankings, I should say,
uh than Kyle Williams. So the honest question for people that followed us pre draft and you know, looked at my spreadsheet and my rankings and stuff, is well, why all of a sudden are you now you know, big Kyle Williams guy right, like you know what, shouldn't you be saying that they should have drafted Jalen Nole? But I think one of the coin flips and one of the decisions here is about why did they draft the
player in Kyle Williams over Nol? And I think the biggest reason is something that you hit on, is that Kyle Williams has a little bit more ability to project as an outside receiver.
Yeah.
I think there's a little bit more there in terms of him playing on the outside, whether it's as a true X or whatever you want to call it. Then with Noel Noll, I think profiled for pretty much ever everybody as a true speed slot like he was an inside receiver. That was what he was going to be in the NFL. Level. With Kyle Williams, there's a lot
of really encouraging release work as an outside receiver. That gives you hope that he maybe can play closer to like a fifty to fifty split ideally, especially in this offense, he is a chess piece that Josh McDaniels is moving all around the formation to get him free release off the line of scrimmage. Whether it's in motion, it's a stack, it's a bunch, it's a slot rep, you know, whatever the case may be, just hunting re releases all over the field because when he gets those free releases, like
the play against Syracuse. Yeah, the Patriots have historically called that too lane. It's they have that concept in their offense where the receiver on the line of scrimmage kind of runs a vertical, but he's really running a pick like he's kind of running a rub right, and that's going to create that pocket of space underneath the defense. And Kyle Williams actually has an option on that route. He can break in, or he can break out, or he can settle against zone coverage, and he's just going
to rede leverage of the defender. So when the defender sets up outside of him and he just breaks into the middle of the field and then he's then he's on the runway right, he's just shot out of a cannon and houses it against against Syracuse in the Bowl game last year. Those types of routes are typically run by the Z receiver in this offense. But that's allus like, it's kind of not here North there. It doesn't really matter.
The point is is that you can see Kyle Williams doing things that easily translate right into Josh mcdaniels's scheme, whereas I don't know if you could necessarily do that with their past picks at receiver. What was Nikhil Harry's fit in Josh mcdaniels's.
Office, It never made sense, right.
What was Taekwon Thornton's fit? A sacrificial But he drafted a sacrificial X with the fiftieth.
And he kept part of that too, is his injuries kept getting hurt.
Right, But it just didn't feel like he wasn't a technician. He he was in a great yards after catch guy. He wasn't a quick hitter guy. He wasn't an early separator. He wasn't a quick separator off the line of scrimmage. They drafted a vertical X receiver to play in an
offense that doesn't feature vertical X receivers. With Jalen Polk, I think there was a little bit more translation of what they used to do in the past, but probably not as much translation in an Alex Van Pelt offense, which is what they were drafting for at the time. So it just seems like this player has a great marriage between what he does well, what McDaniels wants to feature, and what the team needed, and all three of those things kind of came together with Kyle Williams in a
really nice way. So the rep that I keep going back to other than the Syracuse one just because it's a concept that I've seen the Patriots run a million times is twenty twenty three when he runs right by Travis Hunter. Like that ability on the outside to just stack and separate on a go route outside the numbers on the best cornerback in the name like that, you hope is going to translate a little bit more then let's say, like a Jail and Nole would have done.
Whereas you know, Nole is probably a little bit more polished as a route runner right now in terms of the technique and the top of the route and all that kind of stuff. So I wanted to try to do comps for most of these guys. I think it helps people understand. I think the archetype the ceiling of this mold is Garrett Wilson. And I don't know if he's Garrett Wilson, like I've heard that comp with him.
Garrett Wilson was I believe the eleventh or twelfth overall pick in his draft, absolute stud offensive, Rookie of the Year, perennial Pro bowler. That is a very high bar for the sixty ninth overall pick in the draft. I don't know if Kyle Williams is going to get to Garrett wilson territory.
Williams also had much more runways just you know, yeah, he broke out younger.
So I would say the guy that I've gravitated towards, and just because from a measurable standpoint and a play style standpoint, is you shot Bateman in Baltimore, And I know, Rashat Bateman sounds like a bust when you say the name ra Shod Bateman. He had a really nice year last year for Baltimore when he was finally healthy. He's
battled injuries in Baltimore. There's no doubt about that. But I'm just talking about turning on the film and watching the player, like not necessarily slistically, right, taking on all the injury baggage and stuff like that. If you watch Rashat Bateman last year with the Baltimore Ravens, he was like a top twenty, top twenty five receiver in the league.
Let's not forget not only was has he been heard They don't throw the ball a ton in Baltimore, right, so you have to adjust a lot of their numbers for the fact that they are a run heavy offense. So I like Rashaw Baby maybe a little bit more than other people, but I think that Kyle Williams is a similar kind of player. Really, just a lot to like about the pick in terms of the schematic fit
and all those different things. The last thing I wanted to say about Kyle Williams, where do we see this going? Because right now I think they have like eleven or twelve depending on the UDFA signings wide receivers on the roster. This is going to be probably the number one question.
Would you remember a couple of years ago, was it last year? Two years ago? They literally didn't have enough receivers in like the spring because some guys were hurt.
Yeah, so they have twelve. I have them with twelve receivers right now, and this is including udfhase, which are not official. I should put that out there.
This is they signed what reportedly signed with three.
Three So yeah, I'll just rd them off quickly. Diggs, mccollins, Pop Douglas, Kyle Williams. I think those four guys I had them at the top of the list because they're going to be on the roster in some way, shape or form. Digs might be on pup, but he's going to be on the team. We know that. Kendrick Bourne, Kashawan Boody, the picks last year, Polkin Baker, John Giles is still kicking around, e FT and Chisholm. Who I want to get to when we get to the udfas demere blankh Moosy blank of Moosey.
Oh yeah wait, hang on, I got I know I can pronounce it if I'm reading it.
Very sorry. I think it's Blank Music, Blank Museum and Jeremiah Webb. Those are their twelve receivers right now, including the udfas. How do we see on April thirtieth, with absolutely zero practices that we've watched or witnessed at this point, how do you see this room shaking out? Or I think a better question is for right now, you know, who's the one guy that you really feel like is
going to be an odd man out. I think it's hard right now just to sit here and say without seeing even any OTA's exactly how they look at the room.
Yeah, I think so those four off the top right, I still think people are gonna criticize me for this because he's been my guy for I still think Kendrick Horne is a good shot to make the team because it went so well with him and Josh McDaniels last time. And I just think McDaniels likes him. So that's five, right, And then it comes down to Kashawan, Boody and the two rookies for that last spot or the two rookies from last year for that last spot. They've shown it
they're not afraid of significant roster turnover. That was another takeaway for me from this draft and just the way they kind of went about and really the off seas as a whole. People were, you know, talking back in January about you know, you got a clean house. How much the roster can they change people? Kind of facetiously saying keep Drake, keep Christian Zalez, move on from the rest.
And I was there saying, like, realistically, like forty to forty five percent is a pretty significant roster turnover from one year to another in the NFL generally, that's the case. I think that they're going beyond the typical here. I think it's gonna be well in this is I'm talking forty to forty five percent. That's fifty three man roster week eighteen to fifty three men roster week one. We still got a ways to go before we get to the initial fifty three man roster, but it might be
over fifty percent. So you know, Born Booty, Pulk Baker. I don't think any of those guys are safe, especially you know, just one of the udfases, Eft and Chisel make a push. So it's those four are gonna make it. Pop Hollins Digs if he's not on pup, and then Kyle Williams, right, those four will make it. After that, I think it's wide open for one, maybe maybe two spots. There's gonna be some guys that get cut that I don't know surprise is the right word, but.
Have some NFL talent NFL ability. I've come around to Kayshawan Boody a little bit, just because stylistically, again, if you need that sacrificial X, like that true sacrificial X that we've seen here in the past with Josh McDaniels, Nelson Aguilar, right, like, someone like that, that's kind of Kaysehan Boody to me is a guy that can run verticals on the outside, do a pretty good job with it, maybe occasionally catch a slant or something underneath off of
the vertical stem, and every once in a while he's gonna sneak behind Derek Stingley for a bomb, right And if that's all that role is in this offense moving forward, then he showed last year that he has the ability to do that at an NFL level. So has Javon Baker proven that. No has Jalen Polk, even though I think he'll get a really really strong chance as a second round pick in his second year. Neither one of those guys have shown yet that they can do anything
NFL caliber like Keayshawn Booty has. So it seems odd to me. And this it's a trade, and because he has the most value in a trade, that could maybe make some sense that they deal Booty to get some something better.
Unless they just think Mac Collins is gonna do that.
Yeah, maybe I feel like Booty gets down the field a little bit better than Mac Collins. But I could see that. I just out of all these guys, I feel like Booty I've come around the most two uh being on the team.
Javon Baker blank demere blank emcy blank emcy.
Okay, Uh, Javon Baker is squarely on the bubble like that. He's gonna need a really really good camp. I would say he's probably gonna need a really good offseason, like it's gonna OTAs included mini camp, training camp all the way through. He's gonna have to be consistent and he's gonna to be good.
It's even on the bubble or is he on the outside looking at.
Probably on the outside looking yeah, to be more fair about it, all right, anything else on Kyle Williams.
No, I think that's other than your victory kind of killed their pace there, No.
That's okay, that was worth it. That was a good pick. All right, next one here, Jared Wilson, ninety fifth overall center from Georgia.
Let me point out first real quick. They traded down twice to get him. Yeah, so I was harping future picks, future picks, future picks.
Got one they got on twenty twenty six, fourth.
Right, So nice pick, and some people think the Bears might be really bad. I was kind of surprised how many people were, like, that could be a top hundred ten pick, but like you take that, they also a future sixth and seventh. Yeah, if the Bears are bad enough that fourth plus that sixth, maybe you're back in the top one hundred.
Yeah. No, it's a it's it's not a bad a bad asset to have. Yeah, in the old tool belt, Okay, Jared Wilson. I I feel a little bit like, because he's a center, people are not talking enough of about Jared Wilson as a part of this foursome of offensive players that they drafted out the top. It's not the fourth overall pick, it's not too flashy skill players. So
I get it. I get that it's a center, But besides Campbell, I feel like there's a really nice floor to Jared Wilson where I feel pretty comfortable projecting Jared Wilson as a starter at some point. I don't know if it will be right out of the gate. It might be midway through his rookie year, his second year, even maybe he's the sixth man on the offensive line next year as like a three interior three interior spot player.
But everything that I've watched of him and everything I've heard of about Jared Wilson is that this is a center that is really dynamic. And when you talk about centers, just like a Mike linebacker on defense, the center kind of sets the pace for the offensive line in the
run game. So if you want to be dynamic downhill run scheme that can get to the second level, and you want to get out up to the second level and get those interior guys into combinations and get them up to the second level, or you want to run stretch or outside zone to get to the numbers, the center is the one that's setting the pace of that. So if you want to do those types of things, which I think the Patriots want to do more the
former than the latter, an athletics center really helps. And when you look across the league at guys that have his level of athleticism, whether you know it's Eric McCoy and New Orleans or you know, Jason Kelsey's kind of the apex of that, right, you know, he's the top tier of this. When you look at those types of guys, it just opens a lot of what you are able to do schematically, whether it's run game, screen game, moving pockets,
things like that. So that's why I would say that I'm really excited or high on the pick with Jared Wilson is because of his athleticism. Center position, you're not normally covered these days, like maybe there's a shade over your outside shoulder that you have to in a slide you'd have to get to, or on a reach or something like that. On the line of scrimmage double team
obviously you're getting to. But you're not a lot of hit up rushers anymore these days over the center, especially on early downs, and teams don't play with a ton of zero technique nose tackles. So he's more of an athletic center. Wide body, like his frame, like the way he carries the weight as well. I just think that this guy has a really nice floor to him as the ninety fifth pick. When you pick ninety five, he's
kind of two ways to go about it. You can either pick a guy that has first round traits but doesn't have a first round pedigree, or you can pick a guy that's getting on base right. You can go both ways. Jared Wilson kind of splits the atom to me because he's got the athleticism to have a high upside, and he's young and he only had that one year
of starting at Georgia. But he's all also a guy that I feel like could probably start at center, Like if they had an honest competition between him and Garrett Bradbury in camp, I think Jared Wilson might win the competition.
And I think they might have that competition. Yeah, to me, that's what this is all about. How long can get? So we talk sometimes about you know, day one starter, Year one starter, right, where a day one starter is a guy Will Campbell. How many's gonna be the left tack was no question about it. Year one starter is a guy that, okay, like he might not be ready to go week one of his rookie year, but by the end of his rookie year he should be the starter.
I think Jared Wilson is in that category. Yeah, he's a year one starter. It's just about how long Bradbury can hold him off. And maybe who knows, maybe it is week one. But like I think Jared Wilson is going to be the starting center by the end of the year. I know Elliott Wolf said that they think he can play some guard. To me, that's probably more an emergency thing. Yeah, and you know, if they really need somebody. I don't think he's going to be fully
in there competing for that left guard role. I think it's more if they need him there, fine, but they want to develop as a center because he has the ability to be a long term center in the NFL. You mentioned the athleticism. The other thing is he's an incredibly smart football player. Yeah, and the commands going back to the quarterback. We think with Josh McDaniels were last
year it was the center setting all those protections. But the center is still going to help in that and the center's still gonna help communicate along the offensive line. Guy that's really smart, really athletic. If he was a two year starter, I think he probably goes top fifty. Yeah, you know, he was the first center off the board. I just think what was tough for him is in
this draft there is a lot of experience lineman. Two three four year starters on the offensive line, his one year starter and he really didn't play a ton before that at all at Georgia. Like, he's really raw. So if you you know, read the scouting reports that are on there, they talk about hand placement, they talk about,
you know, his footwork and things like that. I'm not saying that those knocks are wrong, but it's he looks like a guy that hasn't played a lot of football because he hasn't a lot of that stuff is very fixable. It's just gonna come with reps. The preseason is gonna be huge for him. He will be one of the most important players to watch this preseason and we'll see if he can kind of learn quickly and grow quickly. I think he can push Bradberry sooner rather than later.
Yeah, I think the biggest thing with him, like you said, you know, I just looked it up real quick. Drew Kendall from Boston College. You went to the Eagles. He had thirty seven career starts at Boston College. At center. Wilson only had twelve at Georgia. So especially when you talk about centers and you talk about the responsibility mentally on centers. Normally, when you get guys in the draft that play center, unless they're like Zabel, who's like a
tackle or a guard that's moving to center. Guys that were career centers that are getting drafted as centers, those guys are like three, four, sometimes even five year starters, like they might have upwards of forty to fifty starts in college. So you're talking about guys that have a ton of experience. That's not Jared Wilson. He's a guy that has a ton of upside and a ton of ability,
but doesn't have the experience. Now, the one thing that did make me feel a little bit better when I was talking to some of his coaches at Georgia, they pointed out in practice over the last couple of years he's been running scout team until this most recent year, think about the Georgia interior defensive lineman that he's been facing on scout team for his freshman and sophomore year. They the way they put it to me was that practice might have been harder than some of the games
that he was going to be playing in. Now it's a different energy, right, it's a different moment, it's a different environment. But in terms of the skill and the talent he was going up against in practice at Georgia, they obviously have a ton of just ridiculous players there that have come through there on the interior defensive line. So in some ways, like he's almost battle tested, but just behind the scenes in a weird way, so that
that would be interesting. You mentioned Guard. I agree with you well that long term, there's no doubt about it, that centers his best position and having like I said earlier, having a dynamic center that can do different things on the move, and I can also really quickly side note, we're watching Good Morning Football on this side screen and Trags was just on Good Morning. Oh yeah, saw the Let's Go track, the Clinton is Mike flag and everything. Anyway, sorry,
that was just distracting, uh our guy track shout out Trags. Uh. Like I said earlier, you know, just letting him just unlocking him at the center position to climb to get out in front of blocks in the screen game. I go watch him against Tennessee, just like you know, clipping guys in space right, Like, that's what he does at his best, and I think that he gets the most. You get the most out of that if he plays center. So I would assume he's going to play center long term.
But is there a world where their best five includes him and Bradbury?
Because I think there is, there could be. I mean, maybe he.
Plays a little bit of left guard as aokie.
I would just say, like they got I get wanting guys to be able to play multiple positions. I'm not against that philosophically, but there is a tipping point where the guy's got to learn the position he's gonna play. And last year's coaching staff was way too In across training we talked about this. There was you know, you're trying to get Kate Wallace to move from right to left. You're playing right left, you're playing MC guard. It's like, no, he has learn he has to play the position you're
trying to teach him. And so with Jared Wilson, he's best long term at center. So if they think that's what's best for him to play center long term, fine, But if it's not that much of a gap between him and whoever the next best left guard is I would almost just let him keep working at center, just because that's really where you need him to develop and learn. Now, maybe that is playing left guard. Maybe they think the best way to do that is by playing left guard.
But I would make all my decisions regarding him about getting him ready to be Drake may center for the next ten years.
Fair Enough. The only reason why I brought up the left guard thing, because I mostly agree with what you just said, is because he might be the best blocker to play that position. And if he's really ready, but you don't feel like he's mentally ready to be the center, then he can play left guard where he has none of the mental you're you're still getting him on the field and he's still playing.
I'm not rolling out entirely. I just I think that there's tremendous value in him playing center, and I want that to be where he hands up long term.
All right, let's move on to day three. We're we're cruising a little bit. We've got a little bit bogged down there, but we're all right. Uh. Craig Woodson in the fourth round, one of six overall from cal Now, to be perfectly honest, if I had to grade the Patriots draft, Yeah, I would give them an A minus. And the reason why I wouldn't give them an A is because I didn't love this pick. This was not the pick I would have personally made. Now that doesn't
mean anything. In two to three years, they could Craig Woodson could end up being really good exactly.
Uh.
But with that being said, this was the only pick in the entire draft that they broke off consensus. So this is the only pick that they kind of went out on a limb on a little bit, both you and I and I want to speak for you, but I feel like this is the case. Saw Billy Bowman and Malchai Moore as better players than Craig woods Yeah, and they went right after Craig Woodson in the fourth round. There was a little run on safeties, so they read
the run correctly. They I believed that maybe there was some interest in Kevin Winston, the Penn State safety that went at the end of Day two, So they read the run correctly. They jumped on Woodson before the kid from Ohio State went. Was it Latham Lately, Ransom, Malchi Moore, Billy Bowman, all those guys Williams dinner. They all went
in like the span of like thirty two picks. Yeah, so they read the run and they got their guy in Woodson, unless it was Winston in the third round, but they ended up getting one of their guys in Woodson. To start on the positives with Woodson and then I want to talk about kind of unpack why they might have went with Woodson instead of more or Billy Bowman, who we liked better Woodson when I watched him on tape, what I liked the most about him was his reactions
in space or his instincts in space. I think he's got a really good motor, athleticism, physical nature to his game. Could play demeanor, can strike the football, can separate the ball from receivers coming over the middle of the field, really good at rotating into the box or starting down low and run support, screen support, perimeter support, all those different types of things that you do. He's got some experience at Nickel. I'll get to that in a second. I think there are is and you got a lot
of this question. I'm sure you did too. You know, could he be Deron Harmon right?
Like?
Can he play free safety over the top? I do think he can do that. I don't think it's he's not going to be Devin mccorty. He's probably gonna be closer to de Ron Harmon, But I do think he has the ability to do that. They played a lot of split safety coverage in cal but they rotated their safeties. And one of the things that we've heard a lot about from the Patriots coaching staff and a couple times we've gotten to speak with the position coaches is that
they want to be interchangeable at the safety position. They don't want this guy's free safety, that guy's strong safety, this guy's playing post, that guy's playing robber, and to have teams be able to predict which ones which on a down to down basis. So when it comes to why they took Whitston over Bowman, why they took him over more, I think the main reason is his size. Like he's got a little bit more size. He's over six feet two hundred and five pounds. Bowman and Moore
were like five ten five eleven one ninety ish. So if they're going to be interchangeable at safety, and they're going to want him to rotate down and fly down into the box, and put his hat his hat in the run game. He's got a little bit more size and a little bit more kirk to him and you know, mass to his frame to be able to handle the run responsibilities of doing that. So, if I had to guess, it's probably like a size profile that they just preferred with Woodson over the guys we like.
They didn't. Yeah, we wanted a true free safety. They wanted somebody like you said, he can do both a phil. Phil Perry pointed out some similarities to guys like Kevin Byerd and Kenny Vacaro, who Mike Rabel obviously had in Tennessee. So I don't think we're gonna maybe it's Marcus EPs like situationally, but I don't think we're gonna see that true dedicated free safety this year. I think it's still gonna be rotating with Dougar and Peppers and Woodson and moving guys around there.
Now, the other thing that he had to done a little bit Woodson is play the nickel, and Elliott Wolf alluded to it after the draft or one of his don't know, I'll kind of bund it together one of his pre draft press conferences or post draft press conferences
excuse me. Over the weekend, he alluded to the big nickel being in this defense and having a guy that isn't Marcus Jones body type, but is more of like a Craig Woodson body type frankly right, like a guy that's maybe pushing over two hundred pounds that can cover.
Uh.
The one thing that I hesitated with with with Woodson UH and that role is I thought his man coverage tape was a little bit inconsistent, UH watching him against Syracuse, UH, he faced Gats in their tight end a handful of times, and I thought Gatson got the better of the matchup. I thought he struggled in man coverage against him. So that's a that's a receiving tight end, Like, that's what Gatson's really like, a big slot receiver.
He was.
Yeah, so that that's his specialty. But I don't know if I saw the transitions or the smoothness and his hips uh and his in his transitions to be able to stick in man to man coverage against dynamic tight ends. We'll see maybe maybe they cleaned that up. Maybe that was just one game and he cleans that up moving forward. But I wouldn't necessarily say I thought he was a high end man coverage player. I thought he was a
little bit on the lower end in that vein. But what I did like about him a lot, like I said, was his ability to track the football in terms of like having eyes in the backfield on the quarterback and the backfield action and then making place.
He also talked about Woodson himself set some long lines like I love contact, I'd love to hit people, whatever that means. Like his athletic profile, that demeanor. He's going to be a stud on special teams.
Yep.
So I think that's probably part of it.
So yeah, that's a great point. Fourth round pick probably projects as like a third safety.
Third safety, key special teamer. You know, they'll see when those Duggers and Pepper's contracts start to run up, you know, steps into a bigger role in a couple of years. But I see what they're going for with to pick, Like I understand why they made it. I personally would have gone in a different direction, but like you said, it doesn't matter what we would have done.
Yep. Fair enough. And just last thing on Woodson and that that point, I the consensus. The consensus. I think it's it's it's fair to share that information. Like I said, this was the first pick that really broke from consensus. Well, but he was in like the one eighties on most consensus board.
No, but didn't a lot of like like Brugler had him fourth round, right, Dane had a sixth round.
Right now.
I thought I saw some of the national guys.
So the one, the one national guy that had him higher was Daniel Jeremiah. Daniel Jeremiah was really big on Woodson. He had really nice things to say on the broadcast about how he didn't see what everybody else was missing with you know, he thought he was crazy thinking that this guy was better than everybody else did. And he was really high on the pick. So hopefully DJ ends up being right. You know that tends to Yeah, So
that that's Craig Woodson. Oh yeah, this was the other thing I wanted to say about him before we move on. I feel like there's a lot of conversations out there about safety not being in need, and I feel like we were all over safety as a potential need not to like toot our own horns. But Kyle Duggart did not have the or that they wanted him to have last year, he was hurt, he didn't play well when he was out there. We all know what happened with
Jabrill Peppers off the field. Like, there's not a whole lot of security right now in terms of those two guys like being what they thought they were going to be when they signed those extensions. So as much as I don't necessarily see Woodson pushing either one as like a starting safety to begin with, I don't think that it's that crazy that they targeted a good.
Spots have depth. I thought, well, I was saying safety in the need of the you know, free safety kind of thing, but yeah.
Yeah, all right. Joshua Farmer one of my favorite picks of the draft. Both these guys, I thought, just the value that they got out of Farmer and Swinson picking them where they did, probably at least in Farmer's case, maybe more like a half around later than people expected. Swinston, I would say, a round or two later than a lot of people expected. So really good value with both these players. And what I like about both of them together is that one sort of like a hybrid tweeer
defensive end defensive tackle. One's like a true edge rusher, you know, it's off the outside the tackle. So like together they make a nice kind of situational player.
Yeah, where if they're gonna they're gonna be high five and a lot coming on and off the field.
Yeah, So Farmer can play on inside, you know, defensive end, like I said, hand the dirt end or handing the dirt defensive tackle on early downs. Swinson can be a pass for a specialist on third down. And you have this nice little like you said, high fiving each other kind of reminds me different positions, but like similar to like Anthony Jennings and Joshua uch right, or like together they're a complete player. Like they aren't good complete players individually,
but together they're a complete player. With Farmers specifically, a couple of things that stand out. On the positive end, his upper body twitch and power and length are just very noticeable. The second debt you turn on the tape, he has thirty five in charms. So this is a long armed, powerful, well built human being that really didn't necessarily play to his trades all the time. But I love the chance that they're taking here with Ray Bowl
with Terrell Williams. Like, give Terrell Williams right the raw tools the guy, and let's see if Terrell Williams can seizon him up and can round about his game farmer, very strong at the point of attack, very good length, very good pressing, shed ability, Like there's a ton of evidence of him just rocking an offensive lineman back and just throwing him to the side, right and just discarding guys in the run game. In the pass rush, there's
speed to power there. There's obviously bowl with the longer arms. There's a little bit of a swim move that he can go to and a swipe. But when he was rushing off the edge, he likes to swipe. So I think he can play a little bit of four three end. I think you can play a little bit of three technique. I like the versatility and I love the tools. Now there's some work to be done here in terms of the tech which we can get to. But on the positive end, that that's what I see with him.
Yeah, and a guy that I think you kind of allude to. It can play multiple positions along the defensive line, and it is very athletic. Was better as a run stopper at Florida State, but just because of his athleticism, probably has some pass rush upside. Yeah, I think the idea is you put him bar more Milton Williams keyon white and that's your front. Right. Those are four guys that are athletic. Those are four guys that can move around. We know they're not going to blitz a ton. Mike
Rabel kind of alluded to that. I think it was in his introductory press conference early on. Yeah, you know, he was kind of asked his philosophies on the blitz and said, it's more about when you do it than how often you do it. So you got to generate pressure. Those are guys you can run a ton of games with. You can move them around, you're gonna keep offensive lines on their toes. So he's just another piece that fits that mold. They're a little small up front now, which
I do worry about. I thought they might add another nose tackle. But because Farmers a better run stopper than his size would suggest, which makes me like, like, like this pick a little more than just getting the average toolsy rusher, because they do need guys who can play the run.
Yeah. So he's six three three oh five with the thirty five inch arms. Yeah, so even though he's only three oh five and thirty five inch arms helped create that separation for blocks and create the distance so that they can't get up underneath him and drive him off the ball, which helps him kind of make up for the fact that he's only three oh five, right, So
that helps. Now with that being said, you know, on the other side of the coin, because we're when you talk about a player like this and you're speaking so highly, well, he went in the fourth round, so there has to be a reason he wasn't a higher pick. I thought some of the things you know that I wrote down in my notes, just you know, he will get washed out by double teams. I don't think this is a guy that you really want him to get vertical into
the block and really attack the base block, right. You don't want him trying to hold the point of attack and posting.
Up and so the opposite of the defensive tackles that they've had, like they would have never drafted this guy under built. And that doesn't mean he's bad players. Stylistically, he's very different than what Patriots fans are used to seeing at the defensive.
Yeah, so as much as he's got a powerful upper body and good twitch off the ball, and he's got good snap quickness to really get into the line of scrimmage and fire his hands. But if you're asking him to eat blocks, like that's not his game. He's not a block eater. He's more of like a reset the line of scrimmage kind of guy and then use his upper body power to shed the block. I would also say, you know, just in the pass rush, his pads will
get up and then that will sap his power. So like when he goes to bull rush guys, he gets a little high with his pads and then then he doesn't have the bull rushing power that you would probably like to see out of him as like a foundational rush in his pass rush. So there's some technique stuff in general, block anticipation technique stuff that they will need to you know, round out or improve as his career progresses.
But like I said earlier, I just I love the idea of giving a guy like this to Terrell Williams. Like I think Terrell Williams will fix a lot of those types of things or work to mitigate them, you know, kind of like Bill style, where you just hide them instead of maybe you can't get it out of him.
So you just kind of hide him. But the one thing I will say, I didn't think that he consistently played to his physical ceiling, Like he has a much higher physical ceiling than what he showed at at Florida State at times. But I think that he can get there with the right type of coaching. So I'm excited about seeing Terrell Williams work with a player like this all right in the fifth round bright In Swinson from lsu A, is it fair to call him a media darling?
He's kind of a media darling, Like I feel like the draft media was very high.
Well, I think I'm very because of how much he fell. Yeah, right, a guy that was. I don't even think Consts's top one hundred. I think in sins Hiss top seventy five.
Yeah, I had him in the top one hundred for short.
And to get him at one forty six, I think that was a big part of it. Was just like there's always those players here and there in the draft. Evan, I'm sure you've experienced it, especially once you get into Day three, the picks or something coming so quick, and you're following what your team's doing, and you know you'll see a guy get drafted. He hadn't gotten yet. Yeah, Like I think CJ. Dupree is a UGFA with somebody
like that for me. But I think Swinson a lot of people probably you know, you're doing what you're doing on day three and you're not necessarily tracking each individual pick, trying to catch up every you know, five ten minutes and suddenly it's wait, he hadn't gone yet, And I think he was one of those guys.
So I had him eighty seventh in my top one hundred. Him and Jordan Birch from Oregon were really close for me. Like there Birch go, I think he went a little bit earlier, but similar players, you know, similar type.
Jordan Birch went. Well know you have them similar some curiosies for the point of the value. Birch went seventy eight. Yeah, so it's not a little bit sooner.
I'll let I'll let Dane talk about some of the reasons why he might have fallen.
Swinston was seventy one on the consensus.
We asked Dan about Swinson, who was his favorite Day three pick out of the Patriots Hall, and he had some good intel on why he might have fallen. So you guys will hear that at the end of the show. But in terms of Swinson's skill set, I describe him as a speed to power rusher, Like that's sort of how I see him. Other people see him as more of a pure speed guy with a great bend. I
think he's got a little bit of both his game. Look, he had sixty pressures last year at LSU, So sixty pressures in the SEC is not something to it's.
Not light work.
That's not light work.
And he didn't have to face the short arm tackle.
Yeah right, he only did in practice, So sixty.
Se LSU put out a picture of the two of them in practice, like going at each other. Yeah, that's always cool.
Sixty pressures and thirty one stops too in twenty twenty four at LSU. That's really good production. And what I like so much about Swinson and players of this mold, I think when you look at the players that succeed in the past rushing in the NFL, most of them
win with speed and win with bent. It's not a lot and sometimes it happens like like hand up, I kind of not miss, but like was lower than I should have been on Jared Verse because Jared versus a straight through you to the quarterback kind of guy, right, Like he is a power rusher and a lot of the times you get burned by those guys Tyree Wilson, Right, that's the guy in Vegas that they drafted like eight to oh level a couple of years ago. That would
just ragged all people. Well, you can do that at the college level, you can't necessarily do that at the NFL level. Well, I like so much about Swinton is that he does have speed off the line, and he has bent so he can win with pure speed on the edge. I think he can also generate or create or convert speed to power. He has a really good first step. He has decent length on the edge about
you know, average to above average length. So I think that he's a guy that, even though there's some knocks on him in the run defense in terms of setting the edge and posting up and being thirty out there and all that kind of stuff, when you see him, you know, off the weak side, being able to get downhill at the line of scrimmage, he can run through blockers and he can make plays in the run game that way. Short term, his best path to getting on the field or making an impact on the team is
rushing the passer. There's no doubt about that. He's definitely a situational third down rusher on in his career. But similar to what we do with Uch over the years, like can he get good enough against the run to be a three down player? That's gonna be the question with him. I have no doubt in my mind he's going to stick in the league as a pass rusher. Yeah, He's going to be a third down situational pass rusher in the NFL. The question is is he going to
be able to be more than that? That's I don't know.
Yeah, it's a fair question. But for where they took him to get a situational pass rusher there and they needed more pass rush depth, So it makes sense to me. I think he's another guy too that if the coach is like, this is a coaching staff that's kind of coached up guys with these row trades and got in a high level. So he mentioned he was excited to work with the Patriots coaching staff when when we talked to him after the pick. Yeah, so we'll see, but I think there is untap potential there.
Yeah, he's over two hundred and fifty pounds, So he's not tiny. It's not like he's six three, two fifty five. So he's a well built guy.
He's not built like if you think like speed rusher, like, he's not built like any of those guys just flying around the edge, right, And.
He's not built like a guy that couldn't be better against the run right right, Like, he's not a two ordred He's not Jasiah Stewart, where he's six and forty pounds soaking wet. I just thought some of the things that he struggled with in the run game. He's a he's a he's a head ducker into contact. So like when he comes off the ball and he sees the block, he's gonna duck his head into contact, and that's to
generate power and force right into the block, right. But the problem when you do that is is that you lose sight of the football. So what happened to him is he would duck his head into contact, he would create movement, but then the guy would bounce out of his edge and he wouldn't see it coming, right, He wouldn't have eyes in the backfield, or it would be like a zone read and he wouldn't see the quarterback
keep it, so he'd lose the edge that way. Those were the things that you saw with some of the head ducking with him on tape, a couple of the other things just I discipline, you know, misdirection, you know, those are the things that I thought were you know, kind of had him. Anchor was a little hit or miss in the run game as well. So even though the anchor, I don't know if that's gonna asking brew.
Maybe it does. Maybe he adds more mass in play strength in the NFL NFL strength and conditioning program, as Paul Pirella likes to say. But in my mind that if he can just be more eyes in the backfield and head up in eyes in the backfield, and more focused on the ball in the backfield, I actually don't think he necessarily needs to be super strong on the edge, especially in a scheme like this. It's going to allow
him to get up the field. So I think Swinson's going to be a solid gift for them in the fifth rounding. Most people do all right, it's your time to shine again. The kicker. Yeah, how excited are you that the Patriots drafted the kicker Alex So.
I like the way they did this. A lot of people are nervous. We're talking Andy Boorgallis from Miami Automatic Andy as they called him. I like that, which is is is fair because he Jeremy Springer when we talked to him last month, said consistency. That was like the big thing he kept talking out when he's asked about kickers, consistency, consistency, consistency.
Borgallis the most consistent kicker in the draft. He doesn't have necessarily the highest highs compared to some other guys, but he never like Ben Saals, was my guy for a while, right. Ben Saals did have a pretty bad twenty twenty three, Like he was not good in twenty twenty three, rebounded in a big way in twenty twenty four. Borgallis was just steady Eddy, steady Andy, like he his numbers took a jump in twenty twenty four was his best season. But he never really had You don't really
look at him having a bad year. He just kind of got progressively better every year. So that's why I think they took him. And I get people might be nervous after what happened with Chad Ryland a couple years ago, so where it's a little different. They took Chad Rylands in the fourth round. He was there I think fifth pick, fourth or fifth pick.
Yeah.
They took Andy Borgallis in the sixth round as their eighth pick I believe seventh or eighth, So it's a lot lot less risk for a guy that I think is a better kicker. The other thing is Borgoalis is the first kicker off the board. The Patriots actually kicked off the kicker and Tyler Lup went to the Ravens a few picks later. The reason the Patriots took Ryland as high as they did in that draft was the forty nine ers reached on Jake Moody, who also hasn't
been great. They took Jake Moody in the top one hundred, so that was more reactionary pick than anything else. The Patriots. They this was not like, shoot, we got to get a kicker, and you know, drafting somebody higher because you're afraid. No, they took the kicker when they wanted to take the kicker. So you know he should beat out John Parker Romo for the job. He's a guy that doesn't have the biggest leg, but has a big leg. I think you
feel comfortable fifty to fifty one fifty two. I don't know that he's somebody you're going to in the like fifty seven fifty eight range, but you know, I know you feel strongly about this. You and the past have been okay with that because you want them going for it in that range. You don't want some kicking field goals.
So come on, stretch, do it for me.
His career on stretch, his career long is fifty six. He's been pretty good from fifty when he's tried it, but it's mostly low fifties. So it's not like Nick Folk, all right, forty and in he's automatic, anything like forty nine plus, you're just not going to try he'll step into that fifty range. But he's consistent, he's experienced, and he also one of his coaches talked about an interview
like he has a linebacker mentality. Jeremy Springer talked about it's going to be important that kickers can cover kickoffs now in this new rules, and this is the thing he's willing to do that. Yeah, the one question, obviously, can he kick in the colt? And that's not something we can answer during training. Cam right, We're not gonna get answer that till we get an answer, I will say.
When he was asked about it, I loved his answer because a lot of kickers get asked about that and say, well, kicking is kicking, Like I'm not really worried about it, he said, I understand it's a question, and I'm looking forward to prove people wrong because it's not the same. Kicking today when it's seventy degrees in Sonny is not the same as kicking the snowstorm is not the same as kicking when it's driving rain and forty degrees with twenty mile an hour winds. It's not And he's going
to have to learn how to do it. It's going to be an adjustment. But and this isn't me saying he can do it again. This is the kind of thing where you don't know till you know. But I do like that he's taking the approach of not saying, well, I don't really care about it, like he clearly cares. He clearly understands it's different. Said, He's looked up to Adam and Terry, so he has some understanding of that. We'll just have to see if he can do it.
Yeah, I think can they put him in like the Rocky ice box maybe, Like I've always thought that that was something that Bill would do eventually, is like, yeah, just turn the act and like you do is practice in the in the meeting. Well, the Saints did that with their quarterbacks last year before game in Green Bay.
Do you remember that they put it. They cleared out they cleared out the big walk in fridge in the cafeteria. Yeah, and they had like a walk through in the in the freezer. Yeah, so well you need more room to kick the ball. But maybe they're building this new facility.
Yeah, maybe they are real like climate control.
Right, and then they get it down to ten degrees, get the fans blown and I'm just on a simulator.
It's it seems like something that Bill would do, and it kind of seems like something very able would do because he's kind of cut from the same cloth that they would figure out a way to get bork Oz, Like maybe they'd send him to like someplace else, you know, to to like get experience, like where is it winter all the time? I don't know, Antarctic North Pole?
Well, so something Springer talked about when I asked him about this, was like for him, it's about how well the guy strikes the ball. And think about this with quarterbacks, right, When a lot of people think about arm strength, they think about how far you can throw the ball. And that's one interpretation of arm strength, or that's one function of it. Another is, you know, five yard slant. Your arm strength still matters because are you throwing the ball,
you know, sixty miles now or fifty miles now? Like how long is it going to take to get there? And so what Springer had said was when he looks at these guys, he kind of looks at how does their foot hit the ball? Yeah, what kind of contact do they make? So a guy who was big leg strength, you know, leg strength can be a function of maybe he's not hitting sixty yardfield goals, but when he hits
the ball, he makes really solid contact. It has good rotation, It is good velocity because that's going to cut through the wind and the rain and the snow.
So you can kind of scout it without being in the right It's.
Not perfect, but it's something that will help you tell It translates and one of the reporters down in Miami put out a tweet after Borgallis was drafted that basically, I want to see if I can find the exact tweet, but he basically said, like Borgallis was the second most impressive player at Miami's pro day, obviously behind cam Ward because it sounded like a gunshot, that that was the cannon fire guy, yeah, or cannon fire whatever cannon fired.
I saw that as well. I like that line.
I'm okay. So that's something where you look at and we talked about this with with Bryce Barrier. Yeah, when they drafted him was when the ball hits it, and if you go way back to Quinn Nordina, Quinn Nordean wasn't nearly as accurate. Yeah, but this is a guy that the ball comes off as foo's strong, so there's not gonna be as much room for the wind to knock it around.
So that's Brgalis And I don't think you're gonna get any more thorough of a kicker breakdown than that. So you're welcome for that. One seventh round to twenty overall. Marcus Bryant, left tackle from Missouri, started his career at SMU, was at Missouri last year and they were so confident, I guess is the word or so comfortable. I think
it's a better word. And Marcus Bryant that they didn't flip Membo, and they had talks at Missouri about potentially flipping Membo, Memb who played left tackle in high school. They were thinking that maybe they were going to flip him. Then they end up getting Brian in the portal from SMU and they're like, all right, well, we have this experience left tackle coming from a decent level of football at SMU and good program, so we feel pretty good and we're gonna not mess around with Membo and we're
going to keep him on the right side. So Marcus Bryant ends up playing left tackle for Missouri last year, last couple of years, right, I think.
It was just last last year. I think it was just last year. But he Javon Foster two years ago.
What I like about the Bryant pick is that this is again a bet on tools, like this is a trade s based prospect. Is a guy that's got good measurables, you know, six seven three three twenty uh requisite arm.
Length beyond requisite thirty five ines.
I think it's all. I think it's thirty four plus. I was going to say, and a really good testing. Yeah, good tester as Wester. So you put on Would you tell me about his RAS score? It was high, right, was it? I can't remember text as too many numbers. It was good. I remember it being good like elite, like in their elite range.
Marcus Bryant's taught this was from you. I don't know if you were being facetious or not. Marcus Bryant's top RAS comparisons are Oh I remember this now, Yeah, that was Joe Thomas and Jonathan Ogden and then you throw any Andrew Whitworth.
It was the three. And I'm dead serious. And this obviously is cut his tongue in cheek, but I'm dead serious. I pulled up his RAS card. RIS is Relative athletics score. It's the best thing going right now to put combine numbers into context. And when I like so much about
RIS is. First of all, it's it's weight adjusted. So if you're a three hundred and fifty pounds tackle, it adjusts for the fact that your three hundred fifty pounds and somebody else might be three hundred pounds, right, which matters.
The other thing that I like about it is. It's not just gauging the forty like it takes into account the jumps, the agilities the forty and to get an all encompassing number, because let's face it, it's not just about how fast you run forty yards, right, Like, that's not the only gauge of athleticism. So Bryan tested really well. He measured really well, and his best comps for the names you just named. Now, he's not going to be those.
Guys like a it was a joke, ribbing fun.
Uh, he's not gonna be those guys. Uh, but he if you're gonna take a flyer on the seventh round and if they were gonna double dip a tackle, I don't know if this is truly a double dip when you pick somebody in the seventh round, but it's two tackles. If you're gonna technically, if you're gonna take a second tackle, this wasn't this the type of tackle you wanted to take, Like you took the the Will Campbell pick is the the safe, uh well rounded, great kid, high in tangible,
high high football character uh SEC. Powerhouse tape, you know, great tape against great players all the all the boxes checked with Will Campbell, if you're gonna double dip that tackle. We were talking about Charles Grant, Anthony Belton, you know those types of guys pre draft. They waited a little bit longer, but they got a guy with a lot of raw talent that they can hopefully develop maybe into a backup or a swing tackle at some point.
So that's the big thing for me with Marcus Bryant is is he's athletic. He's got experience on the right and left side. We talked about this, they needed backups and Darian Lowe maybe he can be your backup left tackle, but he can't play on the right side. Kayden Wallace can be your backup right tackle, but he can't play on the left side. So if Marcus Bryant can prove he can be a backup caliber player, it saves you having to keep a tackle. I think ideally long term,
Like my ideal projection for him, this ideal ideal. You know, he's a big, powerful guy. He can be proves he can be a starting right tackle in the Patriots system if he's gonna play long term, like that's where he's gonna stick. Because he does have experience on both sides. But I think, like, what would be great if he can just be your backup tackle, and maybe they still keep Kyden Wallace because they want to develop a long
term right tacklet with a much higher ceiling. They want to develop a long term right tackle behind Morgan Moses, but like if they just want to, you know, in terms of basic depth, Marcus Bryant's the only guy on the roster that can play both tackle spots. So if he can prove he can be a backup caliber player, it saves you a roster spot because now you don't have to carry and they still might you don't have to carry a backup right tackle and a backup left tackle. He's gonna fill both spots.
It was definitely something I was considering. I put together my roster, you know, re configured the ninety man roster, and I like to do it too deep on the depth chart. And when I was doing the too deep and stuff like that, I was thinking about tackle. So right now, Campbell and Moses obviously are your starters left
and right. Uh Vederian Lowe is a left tackle. Only we know that, you know, like you said, Cayden Wallace, who we I agree I think Caden Wallace is worth keeping around to develop as a long term right tackle option. Maybe he can't start down the road. Demadri Jacobs has played a little bit of both. But I say this with all due respect, I don't know if Demantre Jacobs an NFL.
Player right, well, you just have more upside with Brian.
You know, he's kind of a practice squad guy to me, and then you have Bryant, right, So really, when you think about it, they're going to keep Campbell, They're gonna keep Moses. Yeah, we think they're probably gonna keep Wallace, the third round pick in his second year, didn't really play as a rookie. He probably is gonna stay.
Well. Wallace could also move inside of guard too, like they had kind of talked about that a little bit last year, maybe being something that never happened because they just need to tackle so bad and he got hurt.
So you don't have to keep four, right, If they do keep four, would it make more sense. Let's let's say Will Campbell comes out of the gate and training campus is an absolute stud and you're you never think twice about it about setting and forgetting him.
It would be nice.
Yeah, then do they really need to keep ve Darian Lowe, who is kind of is who he is and is only a one position backup right over a guy like Marcus Bryant who has some upside, has some tools and might be a multi position.
Back as long as Bryant can can prove he can be that player.
Yeah, yep, And go back to his RIS scores eight point nine to six out of ten, which is an the elite range for Bryan. Great explosiveness, vertical jump of thirty one and a half at six seven and three twenty which is a good number, and a four nine seven forty yard dashub five forty yard it's insane at
six seven, So that's moving. That's moving. So when you look at Campbell, when you look at Brian, and you look at Jared Wilson, they got some athletes on the offensive line, like those guys are not just you know, it's not just the film with those guys, Like those guys have great measurables in athletics traits as well. All right, moving on back to you and Julian Ashby the long snapper. I'm glad this kind of happened before the show. Joe
Cardona released yesterday. Yeah, we should mention that ten year patriot, two times super Bowl champ, the last two or three.
Three times super got here in fifteen, right, so two.
Yeah, two time super Bowl champ, longest tenured Patriot, the last Patriot on the roster to have won a Super Bowl in New England.
Last one to beat teammates with Tom Brady in New England.
Last one to be the teammates with Tom Brady in New England.
But they do have somebody who won a Super Bowl with Tom Brady on the roster in Tampa. In Tampa, Carlton Davis.
Should mention Ron Burton Award winner for Community service. Just a really I know he's a long snapper. I know it's not the most valuable position or anything like that, but just a really well rounded guy, like a really well rounded patriot. Obviously a patriot as well, you know, with military stuff, but in general, great in the community, great on the team, team captain last year. Just a good dude. I wish Cardona the best. I hope that he sticked someplace else. But the reason why they cut
Joe Cardona was because they drafted a long snapper. If you're going to draft and use a draft pick on a long snapper, he's going to be the long snapper most likely. So what can you tell me about Julian Ashby?
So he's really athletic, he had an elite another elite RAS guy. He had a faster ten yard split in the forty than I know.
That's the fun one.
We were talking about this a little bit yesterday. Yeah, because he is a little undersized, which people but this is the way teams are using the long snapper now. And Joe Cardona talked about this last year. If you remember when he goes down he forces the fumble in the opener against Cincinnati, he was talking about and said, yeah, like I'm actually going down the field now because under Bill that's not how they used the long snapper. The long snapper stayed back and blocked, and it was one
of the last guys down the field. Didn't really make tackles, didn't make plays on the football. It was more of
a protector. But there's this other philosophy where because the long snapper, you can't line up directly over him, and he's the one snapping the ball and getting the play started, he kind of has a head start getting down the field, so with some teams do now instead of finding more blocking prototype long snappers, they find these quicker guys who can go down the field and be the first down there and make a play. And if you watch Julian Ashby,
he does a lot of that. Brian Hins from Pats Polpit has some clips of this, including two against Alabama. So this is more the kind of player that I think Jeremy Springer wants is the guy who's going to be an athlete snapped the ball. He's beating the gunners down the field. At Vanderbilt, he's beating the gunners usually like the fastest guy on the team. He's beating those down the field to make plays on the ball. He's a solid tackler. So I think it's it's a stylistic change.
They want a guy that can go and be a factor in coverage and not just the guy who's gonna snap and protect. And that's what Ashby's gonna do.
So when you talk about being the first down the field, the fastest way is a straight line, right, So the guys on the outside obviously have to come in and they also have to be blocks on the outside. So the long snapper is uncovered and he's right up the gut. So if you kick the ball right into the middle of the field, which usually you don't want to do, But if you kick it right up the middle, then the long snapper and stands the reason would be the first one down there.
So the thing about that, and different people will tell you different things on this, but yes, usually don't want to kick it down the middle of the field if you're trying to pin a team, right, if you're punting from around the fifty, you're trying to pin a team. The sideline can be a friend or a foe. It gives you another place where the ball can go out. But it also is like if you kick it too short, you might not get the bounce because it's going to
roll out. So get us some more opportunities to down balls, maybe in the middle of the field instead of cough and cornering, which is unfortunately becoming a lost art in the NFL.
So this guy's a pretty good athlete for a long stow, really good athlete. Yeah, he's eight point five to three RAS score out of ten uh four nine?
What's his so the RAS breaks some things down. What's his size grade within that?
So he's uh, he's small. He's okay, size six one two thirty one, and the two thirty one is below thresh.
So he's a elite I think in all the other categories, right.
Great, great, an elite lead speed great.
So he's probably closer to a nine RS when you don't factor in his size.
So the big number is the one point five to six ten yard split, Yeah, which is moving like that's moving out of the he gets out of the the blocks and goes Yeah, that's a really good number. That would be a good number for like receivers, right, yeah, So that's a really good number. One point five six, that's a individually, that's a perfect ten out of ten score.
Maybe he'll actually have a decent rating in Maden since they don't recognize long snappers and make them tight ends.
They still don't do that.
They still don't do that. That's crazy, I know, and doing the college game either. So I finally got to do I've been waiting ten years tweet out all the overall ratings for all the Patriots draft picks, poor Julian ash Everybody I think was eighty five or higher except poor Julian Ashby. I have to do a fifty six with an asterisk because it's still tight ends. They don't recognize them as long.
A sam Well. Is that just because they don't want to put in the work to actually evaluate the long snappers.
Probably, but like you could we just broke it down, like there's things you could put in to make it a thing that's true.
All right?
They three ninety overall guys from NCA.
By the way, it was a good draft.
Yeah.
Last one mister irrelevant himself, Kobe Minor, Yeah, from Memphis. Kind of cool, mister irrelevant thing. Yeah, fun, Kobe Minor from Memphis. I think the the thing that stands out to me about this pick, oh, you know, besides him being mister irrelevant, which is notable, right, is uh, we've talked a little bit about slock Corn and maybe you know, what's Marcus Jones's role in this defense is what's his fit? What's his future with the Patriots? They could probably use
a little bit of depth in the slot. I mentioned earlier that I was trying to put together my depth chart the other day on Monday, and I didn't really feel great about who to put behind Marcus Jones in the slot. It's probably Isaiah Bolden is the guy I feel the best about is like a bigger slot corner. He's practiced a little bit some in the slot with the Patriots the last couple of years. Kobe Minor doesn't have great top end speed, but he's got coverage ability.
He's got zone coverage ability. He can handle those responsibilities, and I think that a lot of people project him to play be better off inside because of the lack of long speed. So I do wonder if they're going to have him come in and compete as a slot corner.
Yeah, that certainly seems like yet also a guy that's a good athlete. I think in somebody that they probably have ear marked for a special team's role primarily, but yeah, they need did slot corner depth. He's going to compete. Jordan Paul, a guy, undrafted guy from Texas State, has been listed a lot of places of safety, yeah, but primarily played slot corner for the Bobcats last year. There's gonna be an interesting competition there.
You see a lot of you know, scrappy physical I'm not afraid to stick his hat in in the run game, and when you hear those types of things, you know nowadays Nicole leven personnel. You know, new strong sidelinebacker. Like you think about the slot and guys like that playing a spot a slot, especially if they don't have the top end speed to hang as outside corners. You can move him back inside and maybe get something out of him a flyer. You know, we'll see what happens with him. Obviously,
last pick in the draft. You're not expecting a ton So that's the draft class. That was good. Look at that Look at that pace.
That's pretty good.
That was one of our best ever. Like normally this show takes we saw the UDF phase, but that was a good pace. I'm proud of us. I really am so about those u DFAs. Yeah, so the Patriots have signed an unbelievable quite a few ud fas. Uh, what are we up to now? Like like almost seventeen seventeen, I was gonna say, right, we're getting to a high number here. So I have a couple that I'm higher on. I know you have a couple as well. I think the ones that are the most notable, uh to me
are Efton Chishom's got to be on the list. Land Larrison's got to be on the list. I think those two guys are on everybody's list. Jack Connonlly from Boston College I find interesting. And then of course the full back Brock Lamb also c J Deprie. Oh, I can't I'm probably the highest on CV and I just forgot ce Ja Prie. So I would say those five are probably the guys that I look at. Oh and uh Elijah Ponder.
Yeah, so six, we'll throw the one in on defense. It's mostly an offensive class.
So those six guys I look at and say probably have the best chance to push for roster spots. Who is your favorite? You know, we have a couple of minutes, so you can, we can go on all six, But who is your favorite?
My personal favorite is probably Larison. I think the guy like this feels like a lazy take. Evan, I don't know. You tell me. Brock Lampi's the most likely to make the team because he's on the top of the depth chart, so like he's gonna make it because they need a full back and he's a fullback. Beyond him, Larison's super fun reminds me a ton of Brandon Bolden. I think he's a physical ballcarrier. He can run between the tackles, he can catch the football. I think he's gonna be
a stud on special teams. I think he ends up making the team. There could be like three or four of these guys who make the team. CJ. Dupree. We talked about this guy a lot during the pre draft process. Turned out they got him as a UDFA primarily blocking tight end, but has some receiving upside you can tap into. Really was like the late Day three Mitchell Evans who we liked but then obviously end up going undrafted. I think to a lot of people's surprise. So I think
he has a good chance. Chisholm, I mean just cut and dry, Josh McDaniel, slicker receiver. I don't know how much more we need to say there and then I also like Connolly can play four spots. We'll give you some depth. We talked about the importance there. Wilfrid Pinay will be an interesting one. I also like, I kind of just mentioned him. Is Jordan Polk from Texas State. A ton of slot experience, some of it's at the FCS level, but has a ton of slot experience. Plays physically.
I think he forces three or four fumbles last year. So they need a backup slot corner, and I think he's gonna be right there in the mix of the competition. Can play some safety as well, and should be a good player on special teams. So there's a little g Scott too, Like if they want a more of receiving tight end, I think he's certainly got'd like to keep on the practice squad and developed for a year. There's
a lot of guys that you look at. So I'll have my list out tomorrow on ninety eight five the Sports of dot Com. Of like udfa's with the most realistic path to the roster. I had ten guys that I can see like having a realistic path to making the team. It doesn't mean they all will. They won't. You're not gonna have ten udfas, But like, there's ten guys that I would not be surprised if they made the team.
So I'll go in order of guys that basically I thought were drafted to not you know, guys that are lower on my list. But suj Dupre, I'm shocked he didn't get drafted. And yeah, this happens deep tight end class. Someone's gonna fall through the CACS crack. Someone's not going to get drafted. That's just the way it works in deep classes. Duprie was one of those guys. For my money, I thought dupri was one of the best inline blockers
on day three in the class. Put him right up there with you know, Jackson Hawes and Latchie from Iowa and like those guys. I thought he blocked really really well. I know there's some questions about finish and sort of power to sustain and things like that. I didn't see that in a couple of games of his that I watched, I thought that he finished really well. I put a clip up on Twitter of him just kind of throwing a guy out of the club, you know, on the sideline.
I put another one up of him comboing up on an inline block of and him just burying the dude into the ground and flexing on him, Like this is the guy that can really block. If you're gonna make the team as a third tight end, blocking and special teams is your path, right, Like, that's the way to do it. And I think du pre can do both of those things. You know, play on the wing on special teams, on the protection units and things like that, and then also block in line on as a third
tight end. He has a little bit of juice, like he's a four to six ish guy. In the forty yard dash, it wasn't a terrible time, above average speed at straight line speed. He was an afterthought in Alabama's passing game, as you would expect with all the six nine, all the talent they have at that school. But he you know, they would dump them off, you know, tight end screens, little you know, slipouts into the flats, things
like that, and let him run with the ball. And he was pretty good with the ball in his hands. And he's got a little bit of straight line speed to get down the field. So you split was, yeah, they'll have races. I thought that Dupre was going to get drafted because of his blocking.
Yeah, me too, And he's.
A really good blocker. Efton Chisholm. I just it makes me feel whole again that we're doing eft and Chisholm, because this is the Riley McCarron's of Austin cars. This is the Brax and Barrioses of Gunner O Chefsky's. Yeah, this is uh, give me another one.
I mean, you're out of him unless you want to go to Julian Edelman.
No, I don't want to go to Julian Edelman, but.
Austin Carr, Braxton Barrios, Riley McCarran, Gunner, Gunner, Well, I don't think Gunner was more like Gunner was a converted corner.
Yeah, Gunner was a little different. But there's more back in the day. Like I was mentioning Riley McCarron and Austin Carr and Paul yesterday on PU laughed and said, I was thinking of different guys because there's so many guys. But anyways, uh, not true slot, not like the Truton Chisholm is your classic quick, not fast Patriots slot receiver. He ran a four to seven. He has got no juice, right, like, no straight line juice down the field, and it's not a lot after the catch. I will give him this
after the catch though. He is really good at making the first guy miss in a phone booth. Then he gets caught from behind every single time. But like he'll give you those extra like two or three yards by just eluding that first hill.
Also like, and I mean this is at the FCS level, but he'll drag guys like he doesn't just go down. Yeah, he's he wants the contacts there because he gets caught, but like he'll he'll make him work to bring him down.
Really where he shines those his route running and he's a jitterbug like he's got he's an absolute jitterbug quickness. He's got that ability to separate at the top of the routes. If he's gonna there's gonna be a preseason game. I can tell you right now where they're gonna run hass and he's gonna be number three and he's gonna run the juke and he's gonna win over the middle on a linebacker and we're all gonna just be like there he is there, it is right, Like it's gonna
be like pop the corks right like that. That's chisholm uh. He's he was fun. I liked watching watching him at Eastern Washington. I posted this on Twitter, like red on red red jerseys on a red field, Like come on Eastern Washington, Like, no, that's the red field, okay, but you can't wear red jerseys on a redkin.
Have you ever seen the thing with Boise State where the guy lies down on the on the kick that should be it's a whole field advantage.
If this organization did that, I.
Don't want to see colored fields in the NFL.
This organization did that back in the day, there would be a Supreme Court hearing.
Of the pack the Jets can do it. There's not smart enough to actually, I think a guy in the NFL did do that. Lie down in an enzign.
I know he did. He did, Yeah, he did. So that's Efton Chishlm. Classic Josh McDaniel slot receiver, the red field. It's so classic Josh McDaniel slot that you just know that McDaniels was somewhere in this building when they do UDF a is or flying and he was like, can you just give me Chisholm Like.
And you just just you said he started asking for that for the UDFA. He's probably one f seven. They probably to rip the phone away.
Yeah, he was probably like, I'm telling you, this Eastern Washington kid is exactly what I need. Just give me this kid.
When does he release the first workout video with Edelman? You know Edelman is going to start going and working out with him.
I'm excited about him. I'm not gonna lie. He's going to be a training camp guy we all know that, Land Larison. I can see it with him a little bit too. Again, another guy that just fits that mold for the Patriots. Really good quickness, like he can really elude and jump out of cuts. I wouldn't say he's the fastest either in a straight line, like he's not going to run through defenses or take out pursued angles like Trevon Henderson, but he's going to be able to
jump cut out of tackles. He's gonna be able to catch the ball a little bit out of the battlefield, you said, Brandon Bolden. He told me I was lazy by comping him to Rex Burkhead. I'm gonna do it anyways, right, I think.
He gets bigger than I forgot. I looked at that. I said, Larius is like a big guy.
Yeah, I didn't realize that. Yesterday on PU I I screwed up and I called him Danny Woodhead. He's much bigger than Danny wood He's like six foot two fifteen. Yeah, Rex Burkhead, Rex Perkin. Yeah, there's a there's comps of there's a comps. There's clips of him like running angle routes and stuff like that. Out of the backfield and paying some separation on linebackers. He's he's Rex burt Head.
You mentioned Conley, Jack Conley from Boston College. You knew they were going to get one BC guy in here. Jack Conley's the guy. What I like about Jack Conley And I talked to to the guys at New England Football Journal, you know, Kevin and yeah, Den, I was trying to I wasn't gonna be able to pronounce his last name, sorry. John. John's a big offensive line guy, coaches offensive line, so he knows what he's talking about.
And we were at PC's pro day and he was like, I think Conley, you know, is a is an interesting like seventh round UDF A flyer. He is on it. And the big reason why John told me that is because of his versatility. Like if you if you're going to back up in the NFL, you better be able to back up multiple spots, right, Like you have to be a four position backup like Conley. Conley played every
position at Boston College beside center. Yeah, he played in a college game at He also played a little bit of muscle tight end, like jumbo tight end, you know, tackle eligible type of stuff. As the sixth offensive lineman. So this is a guy that projects as a backup, that can back up multiple positions. I think he's got good power, good play strength to him. You know, he's got a rock solid kind of anchor and thud into contact and all that kind of stuff. He's got to
work on. He's a wastebender and he like leans over his skis and gets off balance. I have to work on that, but I think he can be a backup in the league. So to prea chisholm uh Lampy With Lampy, it's more of a of an offense stylistic thing, right, Like that's all it is. If they're gonna go with the full back, you know, that's the type of thing that they're going to Uh, they're gonna want, you know,
in Lampy. You know I turned on his tape against Notre Dame last year at Northern Iowa and they ran lead iso right full back right through the the A gap or the B gap up on the linebacker you know, thwack right behind him, right. You know that play. Everybody knows it. If you play pee wee football, it's like a day one install from like the fifth grade on right is lead ISO. Then right after a couple of plays later they play actioned off of it and I was like, I was pants off. I was like, hell yeah,
full back's back, baby. He did do a little bit of things on the wing like you do, some wing blocking and some inline blocking as well. So there's some of that versatility or like H back versatility to him as well. But if they want that traditional full back, that's just him. The one thing I would say about him as a receiver, I thought his ball skills were decent. Like he made a low catch against Notre Dame where he got yeah, where he went to the ground and
made a catch. I thought that he Know he's not a dynamic receiver. It's not Kyle used check right, You're not going to get that level out of him. But I do think he can catch the ball. You know, if he elits into the flat and he's you know, the fifth read on the backside, and there's just nobody covering him over here, like they'll he'll be able to be serviceable. He'll catch the ball, he'll get upfield, he'll get the yards he can get.
He's not a true h back, but he is somebody who can trust with ball in his hands in the right situation. So I think it's that perfect mold between what McDaniels wants, which is a guy that can just get into the A gap and meet a linebacker, but not somebody like he's all somebody the defense is going to have to account for.
Last one I wanted to bring up was Elijah Ponder from cal Poly. I thought that Elijah Ponder had draftable talent, draftable trade, certainly a really good tester. Again, hammer in the testing here, nine point seven rass Orris really elite in all categories, you know, elite speed, elite explosiveness, elite agility. This is a guy that ran a six point nine to nine second three cone at six two two fifty. That's really good. Yeah, sub seven three cone at that
size is really impressive. Defensive end prospect handing the dirt four to three end, good power, good explosiveness off the line, can really gain ground early in his pass rush. I think that there obviously is going to be some level of competition, question marks and jumping competition and technique stuff, But a guy that can really rush the passer and really has some speed to power and some athleticism to his game so I think he's got a chance just
on raw tools to potentially make the roster. So if I had to guess, besides Lampy, like you said, that's its own thing. Besides Lampy, if I had to guess, I would say Dupree's probably got the best chance to make the team as a third tight end.
Yeah, but Larison and Chisholm are right there too. I think that's the big that's the and Conley that's like the group you're looking at, and then some other guys more just for depth.
If I had to put a guess on it, I would say Dupre third tight end, blocking tight end behind Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper. You can he beat out Jahem Bell as more of a tradition inline blocker, whereas Jackeen Bell is kind of this you know flex h back moved right.
But I guess it becomes tough. Are you gonna So it comes down to me like, if they're going to carry a move tight end and h back, you probably aren't going to keep Lampy. Yeah, So it's Dupre or Lampy depending on if Bell fills the full back rolling right.
So it's kind of a trickle down effect of like Belle Lampy dupre those three guys. Do they want the traditional full back? Do they want an extra inline blocker? Yeah? Those would be the conversations that we're gonna have all summer long, all summer long about this team in this fifty three man roster. Really exciting group all around. And we have one more special treat for you, so don't sign off just yet. Dame Broker from the Athletic is up next. He's gonna break down. What's that? Oh? I
need to do the read. I need to do the read first before we throw it to day. Support the home team. Join New England's events staff here at led Stadium. Season open visions available in food, beverage, parking and security. Visit www dot thecraftgroup dot com, slash careers and apply today. All right, guys, here's Dan Brugler. We are joined now
by Dame Bruger of the Athletic, the Beast himself. Dane, thanks so much for joining us, and you're we got a lot of fans of you here right now because you ranked the Patriots as the number one draft class in the NFL, so we had to have you y'all to talk about that, but thanks so much for doing this.
No, Hey, pleasures online.
It was a fun draft season, fun three days. And yeah, I'm really lated what the Patriots did. So excited to talk about that class with you.
Yeah, let's start with that right off the top. So you published a ranking of all thirty two teams draft classes and you had those New England Patriots up there at number one. Why did you think the Patriots had the best draft in the NFL.
First of all, they just drafted a lot of the players that I had ranked in my top one hundred. I think six we're in my top one hundred. And I think they just matched up really well with the needs and what's going to make this team better, you know, And like what I do, because I don't do draft grades, I just do it one through thirty two.
Here are my favorite draft classes.
And really it just comes down to who do I think made the biggest jump based off of what they.
Did on draft weekend?
And I think you look at the Patriots. You get your love tackle with Will Campbell, you come back, you get a couple of playmakers in on Day two with Travon Henderson Kyle Williams, and then to get Jared Well trade back and then get Jared Wilson. I just tremendous value in my opinion. Wilson, He's going to be a starter in this league for a long time. I compared to him a Rodney Hudson, you know, a guy that maybe won't make a Pro Bowl, but he's going to be a solid starter for a lot of years. And
that's he's going to bring competition from day one. And so that's what if you're the Patriots, that's exactly what you want. You want to an offensive line that is really get the five best out there based off of competition. And so I think they did a really nice job first two three rounds and then into Day three just adding really good football players and at positions where they're going to directly impact this team in twenty twenty five.
And Dan kind of along those lines. And I don't know if you factor this into your grade, just how teams maneuver the board and work the board. But five trades. That was a big part of the talking point coming out of the draft. It was I believe Elliott Wolf after the draft talked about they wanted to make sure they were picking in spots where the players lined up
for them. Did you factor that into your evaluation, if not, just your thoughts on how they were able to manipulate the board to get the class that they wanted to get.
Yeah, and that's that's certainly part of it.
Like I said, to trade back and get Wilson the way they did was awesome. It's it's always tough because if you like a player.
Enough, just take them.
But at the same time, if they are teams calling about possibly moving up, then you know, it's it's a conversation about, hey, well we can pick up an extra fourth or an extra fifth and move back ten twelve spots and we still feel like we'll get the same guy. Now there's risk involved obviously that the player will still be there.
But I think the Patriots and what.
They did over the weekend was a good example of it working out to their advantage and letting the board fall to them, not forcing things, not being you know, like was it member last year in the second round when you know they traded back, you know, wait from lad McConkey, and they know all the you know, noise about that decision. Well, that didn't carry over to this year where they were scared to move back if they
felt like that was the right move. And you know that that's something to be said about just not manipulating the board, but not drafting scared. You know, you are going to trust your grades, trust all the work that your scouts did, and you know the rest of your front office, your coaches, and build the team with players that you had high on your board. And they were able to do that, and I think they were the
value because the draft's all about value. The value they got at every level the draft was really impressive.
So, Daniel, you listed out your favorite pick of the draft for each team and then your favorite kind of Day three sleeper pick, and your favorite pick of the draft for the Pats was Kyle Williams, who I think we're all pretty excited about here. Not the type of receiver that they've had here in a while, you know, speed separation ability. But what was it about Kyle Williams that you thought he was the best pick of the draft for them?
Yeah, and just summed it up, speed separation. Just going back to the Senior Bowl and watching Kyle in person, the releases off the line, his ability to separate early, mid and late was.
Just really impressive.
And I go back to North Carolina when Drake May not the twenty twenty three season, but the twenty twenty two season, his top target was Josh Downs, and Downs was kind of a similar guy where he just got open consistently, a little bit of a smaller target, just like Kyle Williams, but Downs was able to get open and May trusted that implicitly, and that was a big part of that North Carolina offense he was missing that
last year. And that's what I think Kyle Williams can be for Drake May, helping him take that next step in his development, be a high volume pass catcher, receive a lot of targets, even as early as his rookie season. So you know, Kyle Williams was an interesting player throughout the process because he blew He had a great senior year, blew up the Senior Bowl, and then had a really good forty time four to four to zero at the combine, but then he got hurt the hamstring, so cut the
combine short, couldn't work out of the Pro Day. But you know, he was a really popular guy with thirty visits and workouts as teams tried to figure him out, and so for the Patriots to get him in the third really liked the value there.
Just along those lines, why do you think, you know, you're so dug in this from the beginning, and a lot of people they start looking maybe around the Senior Bowl and I remember looking at and the consensusport is what it is. It's a tool, it's not everything. But he was like eight hundredth on the consensus sport going into the Senior Bowl, and even coming out of that, you know, was not getting that same kind of attention. It wasn't until two three weeks ago that people really
start talking about this guy. Is it just you know, Pack two conference playing out on the West coast late games or why do you think this guy didn't have as much external buzz during the process as he clearly did with teams going as high as he went.
I think that's a big part of it, just people not paying attention to Washington State football because of you know, just the conference realignment in Washington State Oregon State kind of being left out in the cold. But yeah, I mean Williams he started at UNLV three years there, transferred to Washington State, had an okay year in twenty twenty three, but wasn't really looked at as a draftable player. So going back to the summer watching him, it was like, Okay,
solid player, but looks like a camp body. You know, it looks like he has some speed, but you know, production is just okay. And then this year as a senior, it's like, really things started to click for him, and so it was a little bit of a see. I mean, I liked him going into the Senior Bowl, but the Senior Bowl is really where it was like, Okay, this guy's a little bit different. Jalen Nole to me, was the best receiver I saw on mobile. Kyle Williams was
a close second. Those two. Both of them were really dynamic the entire week and then you know, just kind of getting better and better throughout the process. But it was kind of out of sight, out of mind, not
seeing him during the season for most fans. And then, like I said, he got hurt at the combine, so we didn't see him go through a lot of those drills, position drills, testing drills, and then he didn't have a Pro Day, so you know, he was kind of a little bit out of sight, out of mind, but yeah, he was a team and then for teams too.
Like it was.
It was not like love at first sight. It was something that you know, kind of grew on teams as the process played out.
So your your favorite to move down the board here a little bit. Your favorite Day three pick was Brandon Swinson from LSU, and I think all of us were collectively pretty surprised that he made it all the way to the fifth round. So to part question here, why did you like Swinson? And why do you think he fell a little bit in the draft?
Yeah?
And really, I mean there were a couple Joshua Farmer in the fourth I thought was you know, terrific value. I think Craig Woodson will hear from as a rookie. So a couple of Day three picks should play a factor in the twenty twenty five season for the Patriots. You know, Swinston was tough because you know, he had he had plenty of love. I think in the media side, teams weren't quite as high on Swinson compared to some
of the media, and I'm part of it. You know, he was a good player at LSU, but you know, was he going to be a full time player in the NFL? Is he more of a sub package guy, you know, six three and a half two hundred and fifty five pounds. What hurt him a little bit was choosing not to work out at the Pro Day. He'd even weigh in, and so I've heard from several teams that were just like not happy just that because he didn't he did I think the short shuttle in the
three cone at the combine. Then it goes to the Pro day and ops to just do nothing, and that rubbed some scouts the wrong way. Now, is that the reason he fell? I you know, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I think he was viewed as more of a fourth round guy for teams, so you know, to get him in the fifth, you know, I thought it was trific value there. But it's just I go back to what this team needed and you look at
just adding some more pass rush jees. So even if you know Swinston's not a full time player, He's going to come in and be part of the rotation and give you some of that quickness off the edge. He's not just a super physical player in the run game, but he gives effort, so you know, he he is a player that you know has to mature both, you know, on the field. Off the field, he his past year,
he butted heads with coaches a few times. You know, he was suspended for the first quarter of the Florida game for you know, just not eating the with the team expected of him. So there's growing up to do with this player. But talent is there for him to come in and make an impact getting after the quarterback.
Late in the draft, the Patriots make the two special teams editions kicker Andres Borgalis and then Ashby the long snapper. Anytime the Patriots take a special teamer, especially after the way went Chad Rownd a couple of years ago, it's like, well, did they need to invest draft capital here? What are your thoughts on those two guys in Are they players that you think if the Patriots wanted they had to take them where they did?
Well?
You know, I think when you were talking, especially with Ashby in the seventh round, it's okay, do we really want to get into a bidding war to make sure we get him a free agency or you know, a team like the Patriots that had so many picks, we can just use a seventh rounder on him.
And you know, Ashby is one.
Of what five guys long snappers that you know were part of that combine that they had with the specialists. A little undersize and thirty one pounds, but I think that you know, you're thinking about adding weight and you look at the athlete and just the consistency that he brought that those were kind of the athleticism, consistency, those are two words that came up when you know, just talking about Ashby. And then you know with the kicker, you know, bory Gollis was my rate, my top ranked
kicker this year. Thought he could go anywhere between the fifth and seventh rounds.
So where the Patriots got him?
You know, it's always you know, some some teams look at it and say, we'll never draft a kicker. Other teams look at it and say, you know, if we like the player.
Enough, we'll go that route.
And I think with bor Gollis, he did enough during his college career, he did enough during the pro day during the workouts that said, hey, I'm a starter at the next level. And so you know, I I'm not going to push back and say like they made the wrong move or anything. Time will play out, but I certainly understand why they went that direction, all.
Right, Dan, last one for you. The Patriots have got a pretty good history of undrafted rookies making the roster making an impact. What are some of the guys that stood out to you out of their class there?
You know?
CJ. Duprieze one guy that I had actually watched before the draft and thought maybe he'd get drafted at tight end. But is there anyone out of that group that you like?
Yeah, I mean, Chisholm was my top ranked non combine receiver this year.
Him running in.
The four sevens at the Pro Day really kind of probably eliminated any chances of getting drafted. But he's not a long speed guy. He is a short area quickness type of player. He I mean, the production he put up at Eastern Washington was outstanding, and then he goes to the East West Shrine game and was fantastic. That short area quickness out of the slot helps him get open,
give his quarterback a target. And so I'm eager to see what he can do in training camp and see if he can possibly earn a role with you on CG.
Dupree He to me he was.
The better of the two Alabama tight ends oots actually got drafted by the Seahawks in the fifth round. I believe Dupre I thought was the better of the two. He's the better pass catcher.
You know.
He's a really well built kid, six y five, two hundred and fifty six pounds.
He was one of the best.
His dad's really big into weightlifting, and so so was he and so he I think it was like thirty two reps on the bench that really stood out. He wasn't a high volume target in that Alabama offense. He only had twenty one catches this past year, but I
think you have a good size, speed athlete. When he was targeted, he caught the ball, and I think he was good enough as a blocker that you thought, all right, if I want a true wide tight end, prototypical hand in the ground, inline guy, this guy could potentially be that. So a little surprised he didn't get drafted, because I think he has the what a lot of teams are looking for as a blocker and receiver to earn a roster spot.
Yeah. Absolutely, I was surprised too. So that's why we had you on Dan, because we went a whole interview did not mention Will Campbell's name once because we wanted to talk to you about the deep the deep cuts, as we do on this show. You had all two hundred and fifty six guys in the Beast again this year, right fifty seven, Yeah, to fifty seven. I short turned to you one guy there, but it must.
Have gotten It was close there that final pick by the Patriots. I was, you know, you never know, it could be someone that I overlooked, but it was my one hundred and twenty seventh corner with Kobe Minors, so it wasn't someone that I had ranked highly. But you know, I hope he ends up making the roster and has a good career.
But I'm just happy you was in the Beast.
Yeah.
Absolutely, So you can read Dan at the Athletic of course, and the Beast. The Athletic subscription is worth it just for the Beast alone every single year, So make sure to give Dan a follow and give him a subscription as well. That's going to do it for today's episode of Patriots Catch twenty two, and I will be back next week. Very special thank you to our very special guest Dame Brugler, and we'll see you guys next week. Thanks for watching.
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