This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex Bart.
Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined as always by our Bark.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex barrs. I don't know what I've done. I think I've made a mistake. Maybe maybe I should not have exposed to you to Joe Milton, all, I don't know how much Joe Milton we're gonna do? Why echoing?
Is that?
There? We go? Okay, I don't know how much Joe Milton talker and dude, if you can't tell, it's Alex Bart in the host chair today on Catch twenty two. Evan is here, but he is sick. So two weeks ago, two weeks ago or no, yeah, two weeks ago, two weeks ago I was sick, yep now, and then we had the senior balls, Evan was in mobile, and now Evan is sick and can't come in. So let the conspiracy theory start that we can't be in the same room. But I mean, you hear his voice. You heard my
voice a couple of weeks ago. He was obviously in mobile. The evidence is there, but we're underway here on a brand new catch twenty two with obviously a ton to get to. Even though it's three weeks in a row, we can't manage to be being a building together, so we're gonna be pretty heavy coaching staff front office today. Obviously a lot has happened in that regard in the last week. Everything has happened in that regard in the
last week. But we can get into some I know you guys want to talk prospects with us, as you always do. We can get into some of that as well. Eight five five PATS five hundred is the number if you want to call in eight five five Pats five hundred, that's eight five five seven two eight seven five hundred, or you can email us at web radio at Patriots dot com. But in the meantime, Evan, where do you want to start coaching staff or front office?
We started the coaching staff.
And just for the record, you know both of us have done this show sick now in the last couple of weeks, and not all heroes wear capes.
Alex.
You know, like I think that we deserve some kudos for for playing sick in these instances.
No, I'm just kidding.
I mean, I just get your voice sounds much better than mine did two weeks ago.
Yeah, I'm for me right now.
I just I can't get my my body temperature to be at a normal level. I'm either super high or super cold. And there's no there's no God.
Yeah, I was about to say we had a little fun with it. I think we were jumping the shark there. Let's uh, let's go, thank you, thanks for that, man. Let's get into the uh, let's get into the coaching staf. You want to start coaching staff in front office.
Yeah, yeah, we can start the coaching staff.
So the coaching staff, as as it has been reported so far, we've got a little bit more on the offensive side of the ball. It's gonna be Alex van Pelt, who has been hot. I think got hired after our last show, right, he got hired on Yeah, it was either Thursday night or Friday, Thursday night. So Alex van Pelt's gonna be the offensive coordinator. Ben mca who's going to be some sort of general assistant. We have TC McCartney. Mike Reheese confirmed last night as the reported last night
as the quarterbacks coach. Scott Peters is the offensive line coach. Still waiting on running backs, receivers, and tight ends. We'll start with Van Pelt, who kind of came out of nowhere in this whole thing. I it feels like that that hire was a month ago. With everything that's happened, like, I feel weird going back through it here. I don't mind the higher I liked that they went out and they got somebody with playing experience. I like that they
got somebody who's experienced working with quarterbacks. I like the system that they run in Cleveland. Now, the play calling questions, and it's not that he's never called plays. I'll clear that up because I see a lot of people saying he's never done it. He did do it in Buffalo for a year now, it was fifteen years ago. But he has done it, and he did it spot times
in Cleveland and when Stefanski was out with illness. That that is a fair question, and we're gonna need to see what he looks like as as a play caller, because you can design a great offense. If you're not calling the right plays on Sundays within that design, it doesn't really matter. I think we all saw Josh McDaniel's fall into that a couple of times during his career in New England. So to me, like it's a it's
it's an interesting hire. I'm not gonna sit here in bash and I'm not gonna sit here and say it's a terrible higher, because I don't think it is. Is it? You know, beyond question? No, there's legitimate questions with a guy like this. But I think if they're a team that wants to develop a quarterback, and they they do
need to develop a quarterback. And whether that's a quarterback that's drafted third overall, a quarterback that's drafted on Day two, whether that's Mac Jones, that's another discussion, but there is gonna be a quarterback here that needs developing. They're not trading for Patrick Mahomes, right. They got a guy that's experienced with developing quarterbacks, that experience with working with quarterbacks.
He runs a quarterback friendly system, and he's run his his own show offensively before, and I think in that sense it's encouraging.
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you just said.
I think it's disingenuous a little bit to come on here and be like, Wow, what a home run higher, because let's face it, it wasn't on my list, right, Like, it wasn't one of my preferred candidates. Not that my list was like the end all be all, But at the end of the day, it's not the sexiest of hires.
It's not the most innovative of hires. We're not talking about one of these young Zach Robinson, like young hotshot OC candidates out there that's gonna be the next Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay or something like that.
So is it inspirational?
Is it, you know, somebody that I think is gonna completely come in here and reinvent how we think of offense and how they play offense.
I don't necessarily think so. I think that their.
Scheme has a lot of good things about it that we can get into that I do like. But it's not I'm not over the moon about it. But I also, like you said, I'm also not sitting here and killing them for it either. I'm kind of lukewarm on it at for the moment, And I think the biggest reasons why I like it are as this process continued for them and they hire Jerry Springer to be the special
teams coordinator. He's young, he's never done it before. DeMarcus Covington, defensive coordinator, thirty four years old, never done it before. They needed somebody in that coaching staff on the coordinator level, because the head coach obviously, we know who that is that had some experience, that had a resume in the league, that's had experience with quarterbacks, has developed quarterbacks that's running offense. I think that that's where I was starting to gear
more towards a little bit myself. Anyways, once it became clear that they weren't going to get the Zach Robinson's of the world, right Like, once those guys were out of the picture and you started to think about what are the most important things. I think experience, knowledge, quarterback relationship, and I think that that's one thing that you look at a guy like Nick Kyley.
And I know that some people are reporting or surmising.
I don't know if they've anybody's concretely reported that they wouldn't play pay Nick Kayley's freight. But that's sort of the report out there right is that they wouldn't pay the contract that he wanted. But Kayley's never worked with quarterbacks. He's also a young guy. He's also never coordinated an offense on his own before that would have been a lot of inexperience and just a lot of daring sort
of inexperienced there on one coaching staff. So in a lot of ways, I think that there's a lot of things to like about Alex van Pelt, and I do want to get into some of the x's and o's of what they did in Cleveland. And it's not Shanahan style. It's not McVeigh, but it isn't it's adjacent, you know, like it's they have so many brands off that tree at this point that it's part of the big tree, but it's kind of one of the little smaller branches
towards the bottom, you know. But they definitely do some of those things marrying run with play action, you know, outside zone like those are some of the things that they have done in Cleveland that I would say it's Stefanski does adhere a little bit to some of the Shanahan principles.
Yeah, all good points. I want to get to the X and OSVICH is if you have any thoughts on the other offensive Highers, TC McCartney, Scott Peters or Ben McAdoo, So Ben McAdoo.
I feel like this happens in coaching, and I know that some people have said that this was on the record before those drafts, that he liked all those quarterbacks, right they wanted to trade up for Patrick Mahomes and he wanted Josh Allen over Sam Darnold, and YadA, YadA, YadA.
But if those things are true, then that is encouraging and it kind of under you would understand almost why they would bring him and Alex van pelt in together because now you have two guys that have a decent history with quarterbacks and working with quarterbacks and maybe even evaluating quarterbacks, and I think that.
That can be really useful.
I'm not the biggest Ben mcadew fan from his time with the Giants, obviously, I don't think anybody could look at his head coaching tenure with the Giants and be super gung.
Ho about it.
But from what I understand, he's a good He's a good eye for quarterback talent, a good eye for offensive talent in general.
From what they know. Has been reported in the past, and.
That's something that we've talked about that this team has struggled with what not just that quarterback but at receiver, you know, at tight end, they haven't really been a great evaluating team when it comes to offensive skill players. So maybe Ben McAdoo is somebody that can come in and help the front office out and kind of be a little.
Bit of a dual role there.
Of coaching these guys but also having an eye for the talent a little bit as well.
I'll give you the one thing on did interest me, and this is a little outside of the box. And yeah, I mean that the quarterback stuff's impressive, but I don't know, it sounds a little bit to me like Bill Paulian saying he knew Brady was a first round pick.
Yeah, I agree.
Right. Where mcadow's interesting to me is, Look, Tom Coughlin's not Bill Belichick, obviously, but he's a guy that's the greatest coach in franchise history. He won multiple Super Bowls, he was there, he was there for a long time, he was highly revered. Like, that's not an easy guy to replace by any means, and mcadew had to do it, and it didn't go well. He got let go late in his second year. But I mean, there is no
apples to apples for replacing Bill Belichick, there isn't. But mcadow's kind of come about as close as you're gonna get in the NFL. And I don't think the weight of replacing Bill Belichick is just reserved for Girodmeo. I think that falls on JaMarcus Covington. I think that falls on Alex van Pelt being the first to post Belichick's staff. Here's somebody who has navigated those waters before, and again, like,
take that for whatever it's worth. I'm not necessarily saying that's the be all end all, but when I look at Macado, that to me is where the true value is as a resource for what these guys are going to go through this year in terms of external pressure because he's faced and again not the same Belichick, Coughlin, not the same, but he's gotten about as close to having that experiences is anybody you are realistically going to
get to come join the staff. And I think there's some value in having him as a resource in that regard. I know that's the kind of stuff you hate. I can't tell if you're rolling your eyes, and me you probably are, but that's what stands out about Macado to me.
I think there's some things that you know, we've discussed in the past. Girodmeo to me, with these two piers is recognizing where his own holes are currently as a coach. He I think he's recognizing that he needed a lot of help on the offensive side of the ball, that he needed two guys that knew what they were doing and knew have been around the block a little bit, have been to multiple stops, have coached, you know, all different types of players, you know, all that kind of stuff.
And he have two guys now and McAdoo and Van pelt that I know a lot of Patriots fans are going to hear this and want to, you know, throw.
Up a little bit.
But the reality is is that I think both those guys can run the offensive side of the ball, and they have the experience, and they have the coaching chops, and they have the resumes to be able to garner that sort of responsibility. One of them has been a head coach in the NFL before, Alex Van Peltz coordinated offenses in multiple stops.
Both those guys have.
The wello out the resumes to be able to run offense in the NFL, and Girodmeo I think is recognized that he's not ready to be the CEO of the football team just yet, where he's got his hand and every little thing and he's Bill Belichick. That's you know, crossing these te's over here in the offensive meetings then walking over to the defensive meetings and dotting those eyes and that sort of thing, like he's not.
Ready to do that.
So this should allow, in theory, girod Mayo to mostly focus on what he does best, which is motivate the team and coach the defense. And hopefully that means that the defense will be just as good as it was last year, if not better.
And I think that's a key point. When people talk about Van Pelt's lack of experience as a play caller, I think they conflate that with lack of experience as an offensive coordinator, and those are two different things. An offensive coordinator is going to design the offense implement it both on a macro level on a micro level week to week. Hey, we want to emphasize this this week, we want to emphasize that we want to attack this, we want to stay away from that, and then basically
give that to the play caller. If it's a different person. So Van Pelt's putting offense together before mcadho's putting offense together before one other member of the staff. I want to touch on real quick before we get into what this thing might look like. And that's TC McCartney, who's reportedly going to be the quarterbacks coach when this higher or yes, they was reported they at first they were
targeting him. Yeah, I was a little confused because we just talked about it, Alex Van pelt Be and McAdoo. It felt like they were targeting like true experienced quarterback developers, and TC McCartney is a little bit out of that mold. Yes, he played quarterback at LSU, but he was a scout
team quarterback. He then went He was a general assistant in San Francisco for a few years, including under Shanahan, spent one year as a quarterbacks coach in Denver, then was a general assistant again in Cleveland, and then was a tight ends coach for the last four years. His resume to me, doesn't look like the resume of quarterbacks coach. It looks like the resume of an offensive coordinator. Yeah, and I wonder if and I said this, when they
hired Van pelt Evan. I think I texted this to you that once they made that higher, we had talked about how the quarterback coach higher was going to be so important. Once they made that higher, to me, it was all right, now I need the offensive line coach. And I think we both really like Scott Peters. Yeah, in his background with MMA and combat sports and all that, but.
And just like the videos of him wanting to like kill people on Twitter, like not literally like in football, no.
Just like using like a poll on his house as a blocking sled. It's awesome.
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
So to me, I was like, all right, like Van Pelts more or less gonna be your quarterbacks coach. I look at TC McCartney, and I look at his resume, and I look at his background. Again, He's spend significant time with Kyle Shanahan. He's coached multiple positions on the offensive side of the ball. I wonder if this is
kind of all right, Van Peltz got the quarterbacks. We're gonna have this guy here so that if it goes well with Van pelt and he's gone, Because if it goes well with him, he's gonna be head coaching at least three in three years, maximum right. TC McCartney to me is a succession plan. TC McCartney to me is
the guy you're grooving that. If it goes well and Alex van Pelt takes a head coaching job, this is your next offense coordinator because his background strongly suggests somebody who's a West Coast even borderline shanahano c. He just needs a little more experience. He's just not quite there yet, and this is a way to maybe get him some of that experience. So it's an interesting hire. To me's
If it goes well, it's brilliant. If it doesn't, we're we there's a real chance of sitting here in a year saying they should have gotten somebody with more experience around the quarterbacks. It was too much on Alex van Pelt's plate. But I do think that he's somebody who, if it goes well, you're gonna hear quickly talked about as an offensive coordinator, either here if Van Pelt jumps, or elsewhere, like he can be there. To Rad Johnson, basically.
Yeah, I think I look you know, you look at it, and there's been a lot of track record of guys going from tight ends coaches to offensive coordinators, right, just because of all the responsibility on the tight ends coach from a run and pass game perspective, but in a lot of ways still isn't like quarterbacks coach. A little bit of a promotion like that just feels a little bit like an upward promotion. And I think if you're TC McCartney, you probably wanted that a promotion to come
to New England. Like, I don't know if New England was necessarily at the top of his list of places that he could go. He could go latch onto you know, Kyle Shanahan's staff in San Francisco and replace Clint Kobiac and probably be head coach in two years just because he knew Kyle Shanahan one time. Right, So, like you look at these things and I think that in order to get him in the building, they gave him a more prominent title of quarterbacks coach, and.
I'm okay with that. I do want to touch on on.
Scott Peters though, because so Brandon Thorn is my my go to offensive line guy does a great job covering offensive line play both college and you know, draft and NFL.
He was like.
Imediately tweeted, this is a great hire. Scott Peters deserves to run his own room. He's been a you know, a rising star under Bill call Hand in Cleveland for a couple of years now, so that that's really encouraging.
And then you just read up and you watch this guy do his job and at work and in some of these clinics that he's done, and you mentioned like the poll in the backyard of his house and he's just using it as a blocking sled and looks like he could probably go in there and play guard next week or something like that. The way that he was, you know, firing out of his stance and throwing punches and things. I'm encouraged by this. I like his background,
I like his attitude. I think he's he's somebody that just screams offensive line coach at you, right, like he's just yeah, you know, you've been joking back and forth with like the whole knee caps thing and things like that, but that you know, I kind of rolled my eyes at that type of stuff, usually mostly because I hate Dan Campbell, but also but like when it comes to offensive line coaches, like that's what you want your offensive line coach to be like like Dante s Karneck like
you want him to freaking, you know, spit out fire like that's just like what you want your line coaches to be like. And I think that Scott Peters definitely fits that bill. So out of all of these assistant coaching hires, you know, taking Van Pelton McAdoo out of it, I think that he's the most encouraging one by far.
All Right, so put it all together, Evan, what's this offense going to look like?
Well, well, I do think that what's encouraging about what Cleveland did? And I know it's tough because yes, he wasn't a play caller, and it was Stefanski's offense. Like that is Stefanski's offense in Cleveland, and here they're running the Stefanski system. But if we if they had hired Zach Robinson, then we would still be talking about the McVeigh offense. And how Zach like, that's the offense he's built in, right, Like, that's the offense he's been born in.
Mike McCarthy, it's not exactly the same, but it's it's from a passing game standpoint, it's pretty similar from what they did in Green Bay and I think the one thing that's encouraging is that they do a really really nice job of marrying together run and play action pass and they are an explosive down the field vertical passing the game off of play action, Like this is not a team that is just trying to get you know, twelve to fifteen yard chunks at a time off play
action pass. This is a team that wants to push the ball down the field for explosives off of those play actions. So they'll run some outside zone. They're not as they weren't as outside zone heavy last year as they.
Have been in the past, but that's.
Still their Their base run scheme is outside zone. So they'll run outside zone and then they'll run you know, bootleg stretch off of it, right, and then they'll run a lot of the different Shanahan types of route combinations
down the field to generate big plays. And you watch that film really towards the down the stretch with Joe Flacco, the one guy that obviously really sticks out continuously is David and Joku, and they were hitting big play after big play after big play against David to David and Joku off play action.
I love the bootlegs.
They run a good amount of gap now counter you know, they run a little pin pole and then they run.
They run all.
Those same blocking schemes and then they just have counteractions off of them with the play action fakes. So even though it's not as motion heavy, it's not as exotic. It's not you know, when you watch like a Shanahan Mike McDaniel run game, there's guys motioning all over the place, there's weird odd blocking angles, there's different setups things like that.
It's not quite as exotic or as creative as that, but the principles are the same of we're gonna show you run formation, run block, and then we're gonna bootleg off of it, or we're gonna play action off of it and we're gonna generate big plays down the field. So when you look at all these things, I think what's encouraging about it is that you can see a system. You can see the game plan, you can see a real systemic way of how they like to get to
their things, and they buy into it. You know, they are a run first team, but they buy into it to run the play action off of it, which I think in a lot of ways, Alex, like you should be excited about that. That's yeah, this is this is real man football, like you like to say, like, this is this is big boy football. They're gonna want to run the ball and they're gonna want to run the play action off of it. And really that's what the the the real you know, crux of the offenses is
creating those explosive plays. And then when they get into past situations, whether it's third down, you know, short yardage, obvious past two minute, that sort of thing, they'll run West Coast type of offensive you know, staples in the passing game, but they're not trying to they're not trying
to generate too many explosives. And when I say that, it's not like they obviously every team wants to generate explosive all the time, right, but they're not their West Coast pass game like and you know, third and five is really just to pick six hours up, right, Like if they get extra yards from it, great, their first and second down play calling and the explosive plays off play action, that's where they want to really hit the chunk plays.
And move the offense.
So as we get into it some more here, I think one of the cool things that we can talk about is how this fits, you know, draft prospects, free agency, you know, that sort of thing. Because I do think that if this is exactly how they're gonna play an offense, and yeah, it does, certain people definitely fitted a lot better than other people in the draft.
And I think the big thing, I mean draft aside, just in general, and I'm with you, they're gonna run set up the pass. I know you're gonna roll your eyes at that, but they're gonna run to set up the play action. Yeah, run to make that work and then try to hit their explosives off that. The tight end has been a huge part of what they've done
the last four years. Yeah, three all all of the previous four tight end was among their top three leading receivers, was one of their top two receips three to the last four, and Djoku led the team in catches last year. They've got to get their version of David and Joku and whether that's Jatavian Sanders. I look at Austin Hooper's a free agent. He had success with alex Van Pelton Cleveland. Uh, I'm blanking on on the other Cleveland tight end that
you you text me about it. Harrison Bryant, who you really liked in the draft that year, right, weren't you?
Yeah?
I mean I was the Devin ASSISI Dalton Keene draft.
And we'll call it the Cole Comet draft.
Maybe maybe they fixed the mistake and get the guy they should have drafted all along.
So I look at like the the three lynch pins of that Browns offense, and well there's four. Like I don't want to leave out Nick Chubb, but one they're very successful without Nick Chubb last year. And two I'm not saying Rimandre's Nick Chubb, but Ramondre is a really good running back. Like, I don't think they need to upgrade at running back to make this offense work. Now that you get a pass catching back, that's another story. They got to get their version of David and Joku.
They got to get their version of Amari Cooper, and they got to get a tackle. And that sounds like a lot, and I mean it is. You can do all that this offseason. That's not unrealistic if you go about it correctly. You can get those three guys this
offseason and still honestly take a quarterback third. I know a lot of people probably heard get your Amari Cooper and thought, Marvin Harrison Junior, you can go out and sign Michael Pittman, Calvin Ridley, like they kind of revitalized Amari Cooper and we will still see you the wide receivers coaches, but go out get your true X, of which there's a couple available in free agency. Tackle. Maybe that's where you got at the top of the draft or in the top one hundred. Maybe they trade for
Jack Conklin. I know we talked about that a little bit before even Van Pelt was in the picture. Maybe it's it's somewhere else in free agency you bring going Winno back on the other side, and then and then tight end. We talked about a couple guys that could sign or like I think today Sanders, I had David Joke who as a comp for him before all of this, So now here there's literally a David Joku type player.
Like there you go. I wanted to ask you this and you can respond to that whole plan, but specifically on owned when WU last time we had talked about this, we still thought they were trying to do that Shanahan thing, and you talked about on when who maybe not being an ideal fit for that now that it's going to be a little more ground a pound his own when to a better fit for the Van Pelt offenses. Is he a guy you're willing to commit to as a tackle in the Van Pelt offense.
I'm not sure a tackle.
I still think he's such a good lineman that they would make it work. And like I said, last year, they ran a lot more gap. They were a lot more gap heavy. They were one of the more gap
heavy offenses in the league the last couple of years. Actually, they still run a lot of outside zone though, And I still look at their film and say, you know, the horizontal stretch and the aim point outside the tackle, like, that's still kind of the basis of what they do, right, Like, that's like the setup that they want to present to the defense, right And they still run a lot of
outside zone. They still run a lot of pinpoll, which is basically just outside zone tagged a little bit differently. And they still run.
A lot of crack toss.
So all those three of those schemes are outside on the perimeter. You know a big thing about the Shanahan offense and Stefanski is I think a subscriber to this as well, and so as van Pelta. In turn, they want the dbs to be the guys that have to make the tackles at the point of attack.
Right.
They look at it and they say, why are we going to run at three hundred and thirty pound dts and linebackers who jobs it is to stop the run when we can run at corners and safeties and make them stop the run for you know, on the perimeter.
So let's get the ball outside.
And I still think at their core that is what the Browns have been over the last couple of years. But I think that on when who can be a fit in that scheme as more of a not necessarily the guy that's on the move all the time in some of those schemes, but a guy that for example, you know, when you run pin pull, you have guys that are you know, pulling around guys that are pinning down Like there's no reason why on when who can't be the one pinning somebody down?
Right?
Like?
It just you have to scheme it a little bit differently.
I wouldn't necessarily encourage him to be the guy in space, but He's a very good player.
And I wouldn't.
I wouldn't let him walk simply because it doesn't feel like he's a scheme fit. If I'm Mike on when who's not a scheme fit for you, then your scheme stakes like make it, make it work like you. It's that simple. But you mentioned a couple of alignment with the Browns. Jack Conklin, I think is a really interesting trade target or maybe even cap casualty in Cleveland if they decide to give our guy Dwan Jones the keys
there at right tackle. He's getting up there in age, but would be a nice kind of bridge to a younger player than maybe they draft this year. And then Gary on Conley, who played a decent amount last year I left tackle almost. I think he was really their primary starting left tackle in Cleveland last year.
I think I have that name right, But now my might like.
Isn't isn't gary On Conley corner?
As soon as I've said it, I was like, that's gotta be the the whatever flu brain right now?
But Christian, thank.
You, Yeah, Gary on Connolly definitely corner.
I knew it was Gary On.
Gary On Christian played left tackle for them, like a lot. I think you would say he was their primary left tackle last year because the injuries, and he's more of like a swing I think ideally like a third tackle. But he's a free agent as well, so that that that's a player that maybe they could sign. I think Conkland's somebody that they could maybe call on and see if he's available in a trade or maybe he becomes available as like a cap cut. But they have some
options off of that Cleveland offensive roster. Obviously, we haven't even talked about Joe Flacco, who is also going to be a free agent, but I'm not necessarily taught saying that we need to talk about that like we want to do it, but it is an option. So I think on one who's a fit, I think they would make it work with him. And one thing I will say that, you know, I also didn't mention earlier about the run scheme.
That's encouraging it.
They you can see game to game how they like game plan different teams different ways, so they're not a totally dead set and running the ball one specific way. You know, against the Jets, they did a lot of their old school stuff to get out on the perimeter and get away from Quinn Williams and those types of guys.
But then the next you know, week, or maybe it was a week before against Houston in the regular season, they ran a very very different run sort of install In that game, they are more downhill and trying to run more counter and trap schemes and things like that.
So they they have a lot.
Of different things in their their book, very diverse run scheme, and I liked how the game planned and pieced it together down the stretch with Flacco. Look, if you get that kind of production out of Joe Flacco coming off his couch, you got to get some some credit for that, right you know, you know that that was an impressive run that they had offensively.
Yeah, absolutely, And again Van Pelton's earned something the credit for it, even though he wasn't calling the place, because he was still the one putting that together, designing it and any other thoughts on the offense before we move over, we'll do the touch on the other two sides of the ball quickly and then we'll take some calls.
Yeah, I think that's the one other thing.
And I know that people are gonna are gonna roll their eyes at me and get mad at me because you know there's so many like Arthur I love in New York or whatever.
I think it's New York.
He he loves himself some jayde and Daniels, And I know I always get a lot of flag for this take. But the bottom line is is that there's no better quarterback fit in this draft for this offense than Drake May.
Like he's just he's the best fit for this offense.
But at the same time, this offense is at its best when you have a quarterback that can vertically throw the ball down the field like that.
That's just the bottom line.
Well, I mean May and Daniels can both do that.
Yea, yeah, But when I look at it, like I think that one it has to there has to be an ability to go from under center.
No, I agree with you that that May is a better fit, but I don't think I think it would be incorrect to say Daniels is not a fit. Uh.
I don't know if he's not a fit, it's just not it's not the best use of Jayden Daniels.
You could you could write like you could Jane Daniels in theory should work in this offense, but not to the extent, Drake maywould.
I just feel like JA putting Jayden Daniels in this offense and like to use a really good combo. I think Bluke GETSI with Chicago and Justin Fields.
No, but the difference is Justin Fields was not a fit in that offense.
I think that it's similar, like I think it's similar with Jayden Daniels, where I think that you're asking Justin Fields to be in an offense, and like, this was what happened with Chicago for the first half of last year. Second half of last year, they started running option, they start running pistol, they start running spread right and they and they start.
To actually move the ball offensively in Chicago.
I just look at Jayden Daniels and I think, out of the gate, he's going to have to be in an offense that is pretty option heavy and allows him to kind of develop as a passer as he kind of gets his feet wet. In the NFL, a lot of the same thing, you know that the Ravens did with Lamar in the beginning the remember Lamar's rookie year.
Well, he was running Joe Flacco's offense, but.
He was a run like they were using him in like an option style offense right out of the gate under Greg Roman, and then as he kind of developed as a passer and as he got more comfortable as an NFL passer, they started adding more and more onto his plate.
As a thrower.
Then obviously they they bring in you know, Todd Mounkin, and they do it, they take it to.
A whole other level.
I think Jaden Daniels needs to be on a similar track. It's it's also the same way that the Eagles treated Jalen Hurts, you know, like he comes into the league and a lot of what he's doing is RPO read option, you know that sort of thing, and then as they look at him, they're like, oh wow, he can actually do more as a thrower. He's getting more comfortable, we add more into like the traditional type of offense.
I think Jaden Daniels is the same way.
And I don't know if that this offense is necessarily the greatest fan And that's like what my one real knock on Van Pelt, like the other stuff of it's not what everybody wanted, and it's not you know whatever, Like it doesn't necessarily matter at this point. But they've moved on from him in Cleveland because they wanted to go in a different direction with Deshaun Watson.
Like that's why he's not there anymore, right.
Because they felt like this system wasn't a fit for Deshaun Watson and it wasn't bringing out the best in Deshaun Watson. And I'm not saying that it's they're completely the same player or anything.
Like that, but if you had to say, who was Jaden Daniels.
More like Joe Flacco or Baker Mayfield or Deshaun Watson, Like we're all gonna say Deshaun Watson, you know. And I think that's a real not a concern, but a real question for Alex van Pelt.
If you're girod Mayo and you're Elliott Wolf.
Is is this do you have to run the offense this way? Is this what you know and this is what you're comfortable with or is this just what you were doing because this is what Stefanski wanted you to do, right? And that I think is a big question because if this is my offense and we got to figure it out running it this way, then they have to.
Get the right quarterback for that type of offense.
All right, let's move over to the defensive side of the ball. Here to Marcus Covington's the defensive coordinator. This one's kind of filled out. Jerry Montgomers the defensive line coach. Mike Reese reported last night that Brian Belichick is back. He didn't confirm he's going to be the safety's coach, but I mean, I think we can imagine that would
be the case. So you're still waiting on linebackers, and we haven't heard anything one way or the other on Mike Pellegrino, So we don't know whether or not the cornerbacks coach is something Patriots will be hiring. But I mean, I think we all we've talked a lot about Covington as a potential DC, even before he was hired. What's your initial rate on Jerry Montgomery.
Well, it's kind of positive and negative. I think the positive is a.
Lot of the Packers players have come out and said, you know, you guys got a great one. Think it was like Kenny.
Clark went on Twitter and said, you know, the Patriots got a great coach, And I think that the one thing that you look at in Green Bay. They've done a really nice job of developing those interior guys like a Kenny Clark. They've done a nice job of pressuring the quarterback with their front, but now they have good players on their front, there's no doubt about that. But their defensive line has been a really good pressure defensive line.
But that said, they've been terrible against the run for multiple years now in Green Bay, and I would say that they're undoing as a staff. And the reason why Joe Berry is not the defensive coordinator there anymore is because they can't stop the run. So that when you have a defense that's thirty second against the run and he's the defensive line coach. That for all the reasons why we gave the Marcus Covington his flowers right for the Patriots run defense being good, we have to kind
of be fair and play both sides of it. But I would say that that was more maybe schematic of like Joe Barry was a big, too high believer, played a lot of Fangio style quarters and things like that, so they.
Played a lot of light boxes. They played a lot light defense.
So I don't know if that was necessarily on the defensive line coach that that's just how they wanted to play defense, right, like that was their brand.
Which isn't gonna be the case I would imagine under Covington.
No, but I'm not overly concerned about that because they do still have Covington and Mayo in the building, and they obviously have been scheming a great run defense for the last couple of years. So it's it's I like, you know, another kind of experienced guy, another guy that that's been around and and has you know, shown his muscle a little bit there and developing players in Green Bay. You know, they've gone into decent amount out of that
defensive line. So I'm encouraged by that one, and I think it's really nice that that Brian will be back. I think that the one thing that was a little bit concerning about the defensive staff was that they weren't you know, they had DeMarcus Covington, they had Drod Mayo, but they really had nobody that had secondary experience back yet in this system. You know, Steve was obviously a
secondary coach for a while. You don't know if Brian's coming back, and then you don't know if Pelgreno's coming back. I Reese tweeted out a couple of days ago that like Projection. Remember we talked about it briefly and he had Brian on there, and then he confirmed last night that Brian's coming back. So something tells me that Mike is hearing whispers that Pelgrino might be coming back also, So I think that would be encouraging if both of those guys are back.
Yeah, I mean, Mike Pellegrino's done a great job Patriots cornbacks last year, they weren't great, but that was just for reasons outside his control. I's side of Mike Pelgrino's control. But you look at what they did, you know, just just churning some of these slate around guys out or free agent pickups out. I mean, look, no it's not the you know, the biggest example, but even a guy like Alex Austin last year, who they got after Thanksgiving
and he was making plas in December. Like Mike Pellegrino does a good job and I'd love to see him back. I think Jeremy Springer was hired last time we did the show, so I don't know if you have any more thoughts on him. I'm still it was the assistant for the worst ranked special teams unit that really didn't allocate any resources towards special teams. Let's see what happened. I mean, I think we all assume Matthews later is going to retire, but let's see kind of how that
unit shakes out personnel wise. That's a pretty personal dependent role. I mean, they all are. But we'll see what happens there. I think you kind of wait and see with that one, because he obviously wasn't in a great situation last year and it didn't go well last year.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, all.
Right, Front office, and then we'll go to the phones in your emails. You got a bunch of emails today, plus your calls eight five to five, pats five hundred. But front office, we finally got the answer to the question yesterday, and Evan, excuse me, I want to start with this. I don't care. I do not care if the Patriots name a GM anymore. I couldn't care less if the papers were giving out that title.
That's what I mean, Give him the title.
I don't care. It's it's give him the title, don't it's academic. There's so many people. Yeah, yes, they were pissed, like oh, but they still don't have a GM. No, that's what that report was. I've talked about this Evan final say roster control. That's what matters. Call him the GM, call him the director, player personnel, call him the prince in New England. I don't care. Call him for breakfast. I don't care what you call him. They have the
structure in place. That's what mattered. That's what was important. That's what we learned yesterday. That was not an incomplete report. The titles will come. It was reported yesterday by a couple of people, Andrew Callahan, Mark Daniels that the titles are still being worked out. They all know what they're doing, regardless of what the title is. You know, call him lead mechanic. Matt grow knows what he's doing. Elliot Wolf knows what he's doing. Cam Williams knows what he's doing.
Pat Stewart knows what he's doing. They all know what they're doing. It's been organized. The titles will come. They probably won't get reported for a couple months after their renownce, so they will know him in the building before we do. I don't care whether we know the titles or not. The hierarchies in place. It's Elliott Wolf's show. He has final say. Matt Grow is still going to run the
scouting department. So ironically, their titles from last year basically flipped when Grow was the director of player Personnel and Wolf was the director of scouting. Those are still they're listed titles. Those are basically holdovers from last year. Those are basically their twenty three titles. So yeah, you flip those. Alonzo high Smith loved the hire first off, certified badass. Yes, played at the U back when that meant something, won a title. Was their leading rusher in the eighties. You
in the eighties. Third overall pick. So a guy that knows a thing or two about the third overall pick, which the Patriots obviously we'll need to learn a lot about here in the next couple of months. A guy that's seen a lot of football in a lot of different places, in a lot of different settings, in a lot of different roles, going to be a very valuable resource. My one question, and this is maybe more semantics than anything else. After I just railed against the semantics of titles.
I get the hypocrisy here, But that report yesterday from rap Report. All right, so GROW's gonna run the big picture, or sorry, Wolt's gonna run the big picture. GROW's gonna run scouting. High Smith pat Stewart are kind of there a senior advisors all around. I think Pat Stewart probably is your assistant director of Player Personnel, VP of Player Personnel, something like that. High Smith just got like a senior
executive advisor title. Cameron Williams not included in that report, which stood out to me a little bit because he's somebody I know has been thought of highly in the building. It brings the angle of having been a Division one football player. Obviously, his previous ties the organization through his dad, somebody who had felt like was building a lot of momentum in the organization, was at the Senior Bowl. So it's not like he's not a part of the front
office anymore. I just thought it was interesting he was absent in that, but overall we got the answer. If the plan was to keep it in house, I think this is the right structure to do that. And that's I guess that's my front office rant. Go ahead.
Yeah, So I think the first place to start for me is with Elliott Wolf and you talk to people and you know, I was talking to people at the Senior Bowl.
But when you talk to people, this is a long time coming for Elliott.
Wolf to have a chance to run a football, run a teams as the general manager whatever you know, title you want to use, but technically as the general manager.
You know.
He he spent fourteen years in Green Bay with his father, coming through the ranks there, you know, paid his dues, started from the bottom, went all the way up to
Director of player Personnel, director of football operations. In twenty eighteen, Ted Thompson retires right right, it retires in green Bay, and it was really between Elliott Wolf and Bridan Gouden Kut's to replace him, and the Packers ended up going with Goody obviously, and Elliott Wolf goes to Cleveland under John Dorsey, is the assistant general manager there for a couple of years and then comes to New England and works up at you know, the Totem Pole here in
New England. So we're talking about a guy after I just laid out, like, forget about who his father is for a second, because you know, I think that holds some weight too when your your father is a Hall of Fame executive too.
But you know, forget about that for a second.
I just described like twenty years of NFL front office experience.
He's a real GM resume.
One hundred percent one hundred percent real GM resume.
And I think that that's what is important to remember, because I think a lot of people are saying, well, you know, why didn't they didn't go outside the building again, and it's this internal promotion and it's just Ron Wolfe's kid and like all this type of stuff. No, the Elliott Wolf has paid his dues, Elliott Wolf has been around the block, Elliott Wolf has a great reputation around the league.
I think he's gonna do a really good job with this. And I think one of the big things.
Do you think there's a chance if they didn't promote Elliot Wolf, somebody else might might have hired him as an AGM or a GM.
I think it's definitely possible, and I think he would have been looking elsewhere.
I know that he did look else for was that two.
Years ago that he interviewed for some positions outside the building or maybe that was last year. The point is that he is more than qualified to run the Patriots, more than qualified. And I think the other thing that you look at is that over the last couple of years they've put macro a little bit more in the
public eye as director of player Personnel. He's done some press conferences, you know, he's been around the media a little bit, and frankly, it's it's not becoming for him, Like he's just not very good at the public facing stuff. And when you're the top of the totem pole in the front office and you're the top executive in an organization, that sort of thing matters.
And your station, Alex, how many times has your station.
Played if you want fast Guys draft Fast Guys, right, Like, how many times have we played that? And I think that at this point, Elliott Wolf, I think is a little bit more statesman. He he's a little bit more of a guy that can than can handle himself in those public settings and is a little bit more impressive in that manner. And so in a lot of ways, I look at this and I think that this sort of hierarchy in the front office is really the way
it should have been all along. But for most likely because Bill just you know, you know, that's just Bill's mo. Bill promoted mac rowe to director or player personnel because that was one of his guys, right like that he.
Made in this league.
But in reality, Elliott Wolf has been doing a lot of the quote unquote GM responsibilities behind the scenes, you know, negotiating contracts and speaking to free agents and things like that. So now everybody gets to go back to their comfort zones, Like everybody gets to do what they actually should be doing,
which is Macro is essentially a college scout. And I think this is where your your question about Cameron Williams does become interesting to me because when I look at this, it isn't Macro just basically like a college scouting director.
Yeah, he's director of Amateur Scouting.
It just doesn't really seem like he's you know, that's the title that Cameron Williams has currently.
Right, Well, so what's or maybe grows the director of scouting. Maybe it's amateur and pro?
Sure.
I just I look at the pro side of it, and I think that that's where Pat Stewart and Elliott Wolf have really made their hay in the league.
And I think that Elliott Wolf is going to be running free agency.
I think that he is going to have uh the biggest hand in that and and and defining identifying those players.
So I think there, you know, there's a couple of things.
That are.
The bottom line is is that are they good at picking players or are they not right? Like, that's what we're going to find out that in whether or not that that remains to be seen. But I just think that it's important to keep in mind that Elliott Wolf has definitely earned this opportunity and is somebody that a lot of people around the league are like, yep, like you know, finally, you know, someone has finally given him the keys and that makes a lot of sense and and things like that.
So I'm encouraged by it. I think that it's also encouraging that.
He's not he's really not of the Belichick school, like he's been with Belichick the last couple of years, but that's not where he came up. No, he was brought up as a Packers scout, you know, like he's a Packers guy. So I'm encouraged by it.
All Right, we got a bunch of calls, a bunch of emails, Let's get through some of these. Is basically gonna be a second hand for the program today. So if you want to call an eight five five pass five hundred who do have one open line will open some more up as we take these calls, starting with our friend Eldred in North Carolina. Eldrick, good morning, Good morning.
So let's tell y'all doing. I love you, man, I don't wanna pick with you again. Okay, I understand the stematic you're saying that Drake May fits whatever I could do. Are we got this a coordinator? But my but my question is what's making him a good fit? Cause, like you said, you got working him as a thrower, and like your buddy Bart said, the pure pastor is I'm still gonna stick with Pennis and I, you know, like
I said, I think he's a better quarterback. And then Williams don't want to come come to New England or Chicago, but he get drafted, probably want to get traded. But again, I'm gonna ask you why you think May is a good fit for everybody in North Carolina saying he's another hes gonna be another Wilson.
Out All right? Thanks to call? All right, all right, thanks to call. I want to clarify someone. When we were talking about, you know, who's the better fit? I was just between May and Daniels in that question, Caleb Williams is going at the top of the draft. Michael Pennox would also be a tremendous fit, I think in Alex Van Pelt's offense.
Yeah, I agree with that.
If you want to clarify on Drake May.
Yeah, I mean, look, the big the biggest things with Drake May that are positives are his ability to throw in the middle of the field and his vertical throws right like, he's a very good vertical thrower.
Drop it in the bucket, drive the ball down the field, drive it up the.
Seam, hit the post, you know those types of things, And that's what this offense is all about. You know, this offense is let's play action, let's bootleg off of it. We got the big post down the field. If it's got, if there's no safety up top, we're gonna throw it over the top and we're gonna try to hit the big play. That that's Drake May right there. That that's
that's something that he can do. He's got the mobility to get outside the pocket, he can throw on the move on the bootlegs like all that kind of stuff.
I agree with you.
I think Penix would be a decent fit in this offense as well. If I had to rank it of who were the best fits in this offense, I would say number one would be Drake May.
Yeah, I wouldn't be May. I might say Penis would be number two because of how good of a vertical.
Thrower he is. He's kind of Day two Drake May in a way, isn't he. I Mean he doesn't have the mobility, but that's why he's Day too. But I mean that's a lot of Washington's offense was play action deep shots because hey, Dylan Johnson, who's a great running back. They'd run the ball with Dylan Johnson, sucked the opposing defense up and then hit it over the top. Now it was more at a shotgun and there wasn't as
much of that that bootleg stuff. But the core concepts, there's a lot of similar quick they got They got to the end goal the same way. They just approached it a little differently. They just kind of same picture, just a different frame on it.
So yeah, yeah, and look, I don't know what the people down there in North Carolina are saying, Elder, but you know, I I.
They all kind of trust myself on this they all thought Sam Hall and Mitch Trubisky were going to be excellent, so maybe we maybe we flip it. Let's go to Nick in Omaha. Nick.
Hey, you guys, that's it going good. Okay, I got a question for Evan and uh it's a bit of a nerdy exos question. So I feel like you can have some fun here, Alex. You can, you know, feel free to time and it doesn't as meks, But okay, So I I I played football like my whole life, and I've watched it a whole life, so I just like I know a little bit about football. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but I I play just play too much Madden. I played like a ton
of Madden. And it's it's it's not even for like the multiplayer, it's just purely for the franchise set and contracts.
You sound more like me question than question. Yeah.
Yeah, I I just was I was starting this franchise and you know, you took your scheme and everything and going through the offense, and I feel like I know a lot about offensive schemes a West Coast you know power, you know, zone run, whatever, But when it came to defense, I feel like I was pretty ignorant on a lot of those titles, so I was curious in your opinion, you know, if it's like a base four three or you know whatever, just in today's NFL as it's mainly
a passing league. Do you is there a certain scheme that you feel is the best to kind of utilize your defense with. And then I mean, also the main reason why I'm bring us to the show is because I'm curious how this relates to the pagotes, like what we're seeing in the past and what we can see in the future with our defense. I will probably have a ton of follow up questions, but I'll just take it off the air and listen in. But thanks guys, right, thanks Nick.
I'll tell you this. Sevan Madden still makes you run base three four or four three like way too much. Their playbooks are not caught up to the modern So when you pick like three four, there's like you can four three four three over four three, disguise three four over three four, diskuys things like that. You really have to pick because it's not so easy to be like, yeah, this is my pick, but I'm just gonna go in in Nickel or I'm just gonna go and die the
whole time. So however, that frames your answer. I think he's asking what defense he should run in Madden, right, I like, I like three four disguis personally, that's what I usually that I.
Can't answer for you because I don't know which one's the most effective.
But honestly, I think of defensive schemes.
Nowadays more from like the back to the front instead of the front of the back, because everything is about stopping the past, right. So there's really there's three schools, but like there's really two main ones, and then one is just kind of like Mike McDonald and you know him being ridiculous, right, But they're the main schools right now are like the Belichick's Disciple school of single.
High man coverage, you know that sort of thing.
And then the other school is kind of the Fangio people, right, who are running the palms and the corners and the too high stuff. So I think a lot of the league is going more towards Fangio, and even the Patriots have run a little bit more too high coverage recently. But I think the one thing that is definitely key for a lot of these defenses is how do you then you know, take it and then marry the pass
rush to that. And I think a lot of defenses nowadays are running a lot more exotic blitzes, and this is I think a lot of the main reason why defense has caught up to offense a little bit is because they have gotten to a little of some more answers on the defensive side of the ball for how to generate pressure without sacrificing numbers in the back end.
Because before it was like, all right, well we can blitz five or six guys, but then we only have five or six guys in coverage to cover up everything. Right now it's we're gonna show blitz, We're only going to actually rush four, but you still are gonna have to treat it like a blitz, and then we are
we still have our seven man coverage structure. So I would say that, you know, personally, I still think that the that the Belichick are now probably more the Mayo defense in the Covington defense of the Patriots are gonna run next year. There's still definitely a place for that in the league. But if I had to say, the prevalent scheme, like what's the Shanahan scheme. But on defense right now, it's it's definitely Fangio's defense, and I think.
That makes it. I've said, well, maybe it's not so much Fangio, but the like Seattle Cover three, right, that zone thing.
Yeah, so Seattle like started it and then right you know, teams got so good at taking down Seattle's Cover three that they had to. You know, a lot of those Seattle three teams have sort of moreped the more quarters based defenses and to kind of combat some of the things that they were seeing.
It's just it's funny you compare it to Shanahan though, because we've talked about this off the year before that the Seattle three is too cornerbacks what the Shanahan offense is to quarterbacks. And not to take anything away from sauce Gardner, but you look at what sauce Gardner's asked to do, and of course he's dominant at it because he's an elite athlete and he's basically just asked to be an elite athlete. And I think it's like every
system is meant to prioritize and emphasize. Certainly, that's just how it works. Every system is meant to, all right, we're gonna make it easier on this group in the trade office, is gonna be harder on this group, but we're gonna build this group up more. Like we talked about how the old Patriots offense puts so much, so much, so much emphasis on the quarterback, and then you have the Shanahan offense that puts more emphasis on the receivers in the running backs to kind of beat the playmaker.
It's the same thing on defense as well, and it feels like, who are you putting that emphasis on. Is it gonna be on the pass rushers, is gonna be on the corners, is gonna be the linebackers? Like it's the same kind of thing. Personally, I still think if you can run man coverage, run it. I still think
man coverage is the more effective coverage. But the reason everybody doesn't run it is it's hard and you really need to have the right personnel where you can maybe get away with a little less if you're in zone because the scheme itself sort of elevates. But part of that is you have to have a really good pass rush. For years, the Patriots got by not necessarily having elite pass rushers because their corners were so good, didn't matter if the quarterback had five seconds in the pocket because
nobody was getting open for five seconds. And then in the last couple of years they've kind of flipped where the corners haven't been as good. But you have Matt Chewton, you have Josh Shoojay, you have Christian Barmore. So maybe the corners can only cover for three seconds, but that's fine because you're getting to the quarterback in two and a half. That's how I view defensive football. It's basically, who are you putting the onus on in your system?
Who are you putting the onus on to elevate? Is it up front or is it on the back end. As long as you have one of the two, you'll be in okay shape. And I mean, you have great defenses that can do both where you can get to the quarterback in two seconds and have the thing covered
for you know, five six seconds down the field. But that's you know, one or two defense that we're talking about the Baltimore Ravens at this point, we're talking about having Justin Mattabeka one level and Kyle Hamilton at another, with Patrick Queen in the middle.
Yeah, well, i'd be interesting to see, especially if they win the Super Bowl on Sunday. You know Steve Spagnolo and what he's done in Kansas City with that defense. It's an exotic scheme. They blitzed like crazy, They spin the dial like crazy. They put a lot of stress on their dbs to tackle in space and playing on islands and things like that, and that's why they you know, Trent McDuffie was a great pick for them because he
that's what he does. You know, he's a great tackler and a great play speed and that.
Type of stuff.
Well, it'd be interesting to see if they that's you know, people try to emulate that a little bit more. I don't know if you can without spags, Like that's sort of the difficult part there, kind of like when I brought up Mike McDonald earlier with Baltimore, well now Seattle. So it'd be interesting to see how that sort of moves forward, because I do think that there is a
lot of good things about the Fangio scheme. There's a lot of good things about Bill's scheme obviously, but those things are are starting to kind of pass by to some more blitz heavy, more exotic type of defenses.
All right, let's go. So Eldridge spoke for the entire both states of the Carolinas and said, don't take Drake May. Anthony is in South Carolina. Does he have a rebuttal or does he agree? Anthony?
Hey, good morning fellos.
How you doing it? Morning?
Good?
That's kind a quick question. Is the uh, the comparison between Drake May and uh jend and Dams like a big difference between their passing ability. I don't know if I believe I started correctly that jend and Dams had a better passing year than Joe Burrow.
And also they go ahead, do you guys.
Think that uh, we should go to a player more like Jenden Damns if the office's line isn't I say? Great that he can like move and take off because he looks pretty fast on tape.
Yeah, he's he's definitely fast, Anthony, thanks for all he should if he runs the combine, he's gonna run in the four fours. As for the I don't think Daniels had a better ear than Burrow. I mean that's one of him and Cam Newton in twenty eleven, or like
the two greatest quarterback seasons since the turnth century. As for the comparison between him and May, I think Daniels is more of an outside the numbers thrower, whereas May's more evans as you've talked about the middle of the field guy, I think that's probably they both have big arms, and they both can throw on the run. I think the chief difference is where they're throwing to.
Yeah, I just look at Jayden Daniels and has nothing to do with like his passing ability. Like I don't want to get caught up in all that, but it just when I look at Jayden Daniels, I look at somebody that ideally, it's a lot like going back and we used the Deshaun Watson you know, kind of conversation earlier when we were talking about Alex van Pelp, when
Deshaun Watson was in Houston with Bill O'Brien. They they basically took the Patriots twenty eleven offense and said, we're just gonna put to Shaan Watson in the gun, in the spread, and he's just gonna make something happen, Like if there's something in structure there, then he's gonna take it, make quick decision.
With the football. If it's not, then he's gonna run around and make a play.
And if I'm Jayden Daniels, I think that that's where I would much rather build the offense with him. I at first, I, like I said earlier, with guys like Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson, I would start with the option stuff as well. Like I think it's important to get him into that sort of offense right out of the gate too.
But he's built to be in a spread offense like he should be in the gun spread field, you know, option style.
Let's just pick him apart that way, Whereas I think Drake may is a little bit more of that like traditional pocket passer, where you know he's somebody that is going to run play action room under center. He's somebody that is going to be able to read the middle of the field and pick apart the middle of the field. He's somebody that's going to be able to maybe early on, have a better feel for like timing and anticipation and
reads in the middle of the field. I think that's the one thing when you watch Jayden Daniels on film who I love, by the way, like I feel like I am like people always think I'm like trashing him.
When you watch him on film, though he passes.
Up a lot of open throws between the numbers, like crossing routes and cuts things like that, and he doesn't always have the best timing in between the numbers. So I just look at him as somebody that I want to be in that spread formation, to be in the gun and just let him cook, right, Whereas with Dreg May, I think that he's a little bit more of that, like traditional.
NFL passer. There's nothing wrong with being Jaden Daniels.
It's just if I'm and see I'm making sure that I'm putting him in a position to succeed. And I don't necessarily think that that is by making him run like seven step drop play action bootleg nonsense, like, I just don't.
I don't think that that's gonna help him out.
Let me ask you this, who's a better fit in Cliff Kingsbury's offense, Oh, Jade and Daniels one hund Okay, So the reason I asked that, And I'm sure a lot of people can tell where I'm going, So say, Kayleb Williams goes one one. Yeah, it sounds like he's going to a lot of people wrote off, Drake made
to the Patriots when they got the third pick. Yeah, just Cliff go to go to Scott h Scott Peters, Cliff go to Adam Peters and say hey, jayde and Daniels my guy and then basically deliver the Patriots Drake maya three Like I I think that's on the tape something I've thought about or the other thing. Does he go there and say you need a trade for Caleb Williams. The Paris Socides take the hall build around justin fields. They they take Marvin Harrison at two one way or
the other. I think Cliff Kingsbury there's a good chance he delivers the Patriots. Drake May. Him going to Washington delivers the Patriots. Drake May. I think there's a real there's a real shot at that.
Yeah, and I know that.
Look, we've we've gone back and forth at times about Kyler and if we think Kyler is good or not and whatever, But bottom line is, when Kyler was healthy in Arizona, Cliff was getting a.
Lot out of Kyler, all right, But the difference and a runner and I look.
At the way that they ran the offense in in Arizona, which was basically just an adapted air raid with the option runs and things like that sprinkled in there as well. Like that's Jayden Daniels would drive in that offense. He'd go crazy in that.
Offense, and it's basically what he's running it, right.
I mean it's it's I That's why I've always liked Cliff is because I think.
That his off and.
This is a lot of people have said all Cliff Kingsbury keeps failing up and like all, you know, like he's not actually successful and gets these jobs. I think the reason why he gets these jobs is because his offense fits the modern style of quarterback, Like when you get a guy like a Caleb Williams, like a Jayden Daniels, Like when you get your hands on a guy like that. As an organization, Cliff Kingsbury's offense, he's running a college style offense in the NFL, Right, that is going to
bring out the best in those types of guys. So yeah, I would definitely. I don't really see the fit too much with with Drake May. Honestly, with with Cliff. That's not saying that Drake May would be terrible because I think, you know, he's got a chance to be good regardless, but I just think that it's Jayden Daniels is definitely the answer.
All Right, let's go to Ryan in OK. C Ryan, how you doing?
Hey?
So, I had two thoughts question for you.
First of all, I haven't been able to call in for a couple of weeks, Evan. I really I really liked your article you had with all the former linebackers detailing the drawd Mayo hiring. I had a chance to meet with with Brandon Spikes at us UH just a couple of months ago, and that man, that guy makes you want to eat a bowl of nails for breakfast.
He's he's sick.
There's some really clips with him talking about you know, the hardest he's ever been hit in his career was from Brandon Spikes in practice. You know that that dude's legit. So so I appreciated that right up. So with the with the news on the Elliott bools, you know, taking the reins on that. I've been thinking a lot about that article or I guess the the sweet that it came out about if Elliott both takes over, they're gonna give a serious look to Joe Alt at number three.
So I've been digging a little bit into those Packers drafts while he was in there system, and and man, they really really attacked a lion in the first round. But just as much as they did that, they always nailed receivers in the second and third round. I mean, Jordy Nelson, Randall, Cobb, Bonte Adam were all drafted while Elliott Wolf was in that front office. Not saying that those are his picks, but but that kind of feels like the model that he's been thrown in and maybe
what he tries to do here. But then my last question, and I'll take it off the air, is obviously there's there's the big three needs, quarterback, wide receiver, and tackle. I'm curious what you guys think the approach will be in some of those tertiary needs, specifically free safety and running back death.
All right, thanks to car Ryan on the second point, He's it's a great point that that's how those Packers seems built. Now, they never needed a quarterback when Elliott Oak was there, so that reshaped the discussion. Would he go quarterback at the top of the board. But but this was the whole reason Aaron Rodgers left. They wouldn't draft him a receiver in the first round. Do you remember that? Yeah, they just wouldn't do it.
And I the second round isn't good enough. It has to be fair, right, you know.
I've been read in the face about this. Marvin Harrison is not the only receiver in the draft. Believe it or not. It's not the only good receiver in the draft. Despite what some people may think. This is such a good wide receiver draft, and people are petrified of Taekwon Thornton, and I get it. The answer to missing on a second round receiver is not to stop drafting second round receivers. It's to change your approach, Recognize me you did wrong,
and go back at it. And you now have a front office and a staff that has identified wide receiver talent in the second round at a high level. It doesn't mean you can throw your eye you close your eyes and throw a dart and hit a pro bowler. But I trust them to find a guy on day two. I trust the new regime to find a wide receiver on day two, which opens you up on day one to the quarterback or the tackle. The report that that they were gonna seriously consider Joalt at three with Elliott Wolf,
I mean they should seriously be considering everybody. I didn't read a ton into that. I think that's just drafts and antics. His question or if you have any thoughts on that, and then we can get to his question.
Yeah, I would agree with that point that you just made about that report. And I'm not trying to pick on the report. I just at this point in the game, everybody's on the board, right.
It's just that's just how draft season works.
It's very early.
We haven't even hit the combine yet, we haven't hit Pro Days, we haven't hit thirty visits.
Like, we're very very early on in the process. And tackle is a big, big need for this team.
We all know that.
And so yeah, Joalt is definitely on the table at number three. Is he should be.
He's He's one of the best players on the on the board. So I don't necessarily look too much into that either. In terms of their draft history in Green Bay, I think you make a good point that they never really needed the number one quarterback right like they had Aaron Rodgers.
They didn't have to draft the guy and he wasn't there when they took he was already gone by the time they took love Wolf was Yeah, but.
His father, Ron Wolf, one of his big like tenants, one of his huge philosophies as a team builder is that you should always be taking quarterbacks.
Like I think Ron Wolf was quarterback every single year.
I think was his was his whole thing, Like even if it was like a seventh round pick, you know, just you should always be adding quarterbacks to your room. And so I think that they would definitely still see the value in quarterback. But I know that people are going to hate it, and uh you know, I I go back with and forth with people about this on the show on Twitter, you know, all the time about tackle. But the bottom line is is that there's different ways
to build a team. And the Detroit Lions, I think are a great example of a team and their their GM just went out in in the media. Did you see that Alex uh And uh And was trashing the media because back intoenty twenty one, everybody in Detroit wanted the Lions to draft Justin Fields, right, everybody wanted it was, you know one of them, the draft Justin Fields. They end up making the trade for Jared goff and they draft Penny Sewell, yeah, seventh overall. Good for him in
the draft in twenty twenty one. Do you think the Lions are crying that they didn't draft justin Fields? No, Like you know, it's so, It's definitely a path, am I saying, is the path that.
I would pick.
Not necessarily, but if they said to us that, you know that we need to get better in the trenches, that you know, until we're better up front, the quarterback is going to struggle that sort of thing.
There's definitely sound logic to that.
All right, let's go. We got a bunch of emails. Let's run through some of these. Uh, Sam from Saint Catharine's I want to see us trade up for Caleb Williams. If you have the opportunity to get the best quarterback, you do it every time. Fastest way to rebuild is to hit on the quarterback, and he's by far the best one in recent years. I don't care if we have to trade number three and next year's first to go get him, next year's first round pick, whatever doesn't
matter in the grand scale of things. If we have Kayleb Williams for the next fifteen years, I mean, it all sounds well and good. If it's this year's first and next year's first, I do it. That's not even gonna come close to what it's gonna take to get
up there. If the Bears are even willing to trade it like you're talking about, they do not in theory, he's right if you get Caleb Williams, and Caleb Williams is a better player than Bryce Young, which kind of I know people are gonna have an issue with what I'm about to say, but you need to be able to the quarterback's only part of it. You still need to be able to add around the quarterback, and the Patriots don't exactly have the roster where they can just
bump up at the quarterback and be good. They still need future assets. Yeah, Caleb Williams is a great prospect. I don't think Drake May and Jane Daniels are bad prospects though. So I it's gonna be again, if it's just this year's first, next year's first. Fine, you're probably talking about this year's first, this year's second, next year's first, next year second, and a player and that probably just gets you started.
Yeah, I the conversation I think that we should be having around Chicago. And again, not necessarily the path that I would take, but something that is on the table is what you trade for justin fields, you know, I don't think that trading up to number one overall is
a great way to go. I know, I agree with you that Caleb Williams is a better prospect than Bryce Young was, but that is the worst case scenario is to be the Carolina Panthers, where you have a quarterback that isn't good enough to elevate it all on his own, probably shouldn't need to anyways, Like that's not fair to
ask of him anyways. And now Bradcetown is going into year two and I don't have a first round picked upgrade to roster for them, Like they're just in a tough spot from Carolina, and I just don't I would hate to see the Patriots end up there.
Phil in North Carolina is a question for both of us. So his question for you, if Drake may superpower and carrying trait is his ability to read and hit the middle of the field. Are we then worried about how that carries over to the NFL given the overall competition in the acc This to me is the biggest question Trake May he really didn't play anybody good in college, and you can just watch some of the tape and
see how the physical tools translate. But Evan, are you worried about the jump in competition, especially when it comes to the middle of the field.
Uh No, not necessarily, Like I I understand the knock. I just I think that his physical traits are bare enough for me to not Like you can just use the eye test kind of of seeing the arm strength and the mobility and the size and that sort of stuff. I think my biggest concerns with Drake May are more mechanical,
you know, like his lower half is never consistent. They're they're gonna have to work with if it's him there, that's gonna be the thing that they're gonna have to drill the most, yea or lower body mechanics.
But that's why you hired Alex van Pelt, Like, that's that's why you hired the.
Big footwork guy, by the way, specifically Van Pelt big footwork guy.
Yeah, like those guys that he is known for footwork and all that kind of stuff, being a bit very very good at at helping quarterbacks with that DA's Drake May's biggest knock right now.
Is his mechanics and his just pocket mechanics and his lower body.
Hey, if that doesn't get fixed, then he's going to spray the ball in the NFL, just like he did in college his past year.
All right, and his question for me, we kind of just answered this. Assuming Caleb Williams and Marvin Harrison Junior are the first two picks, what's more interesting or intriguing for the Patriots taking a quarterback or trading down for wide receiver tackle He take the quarterback, you take Drake May. There a hundred you sprint that card up.
Yeah, No, I think that I would still I would still take either Drake May or jayde and Daniels over the alternative. Like and as much as I would have concerns about Jaden Daniels in this exact offense, you go to Alex van Pelt, you go to Ben McAdoo, you go to that staff, and you say, hey, you got this guy that's just got oodles of talent in Jaden Daniels. Figure it out, right, I just figure it out. I think that's still where you gotta go.
Let's see here somebody asking about trading down, talking about packages that have gone for the third pick in recent years, talks about like the Trey Lance trade three for twelve plus multiple first and thirds future years. Wants to see the Patriots try to build that way, adding a bunch of picks, mentions getting c J. Stroud. I just I don't where the organization's at right now. I don't think they're gonna have the patience to do that. That's that's
just the reality of it. Then, rank these four options is bridge quarterbacks for next season? I assume this is the pay if the Patriots don't draft quarterback Jameis Winston, Gardner, Minshew Drew, lock Ja, Kobe Brissett, is Jeff and Needham. He says, if you don't have Jacoby Brissett, last I disagree. Brissette is guaranteed under five hundred. At least the other guys have upside. Well, if you're not taking a quarterback, you're probably not a playoff team. Why are you trying
to get to the middle. In terms of ranking them as quarterbacks? I go Jamis Gardner. That's a tough Actually, Jamis definitely number one. I feel like Jakobe Gardner Mint and Drew lock all kind of the same tier.
I kind of like Gardner Minshew out of that group personally.
I mean, I don't know, he got the Colts competitive this year, you know, like that that team was still relevant even though.
Drew Locke won a couple of games for the Seahawks.
Yeah, no, you Gardner Mitchew won some like a like real games like for the Colts.
Oh if heat the Patriots in Germany.
And I like Jakobe present as not necessarily.
It's not a he's not a These are not bridge quarterbacks to me, by the way, Like these are backup quarterbacks that might be starting seven eight games just to get to your rookie.
Well, he's talk about Jefs talking about not drafting quarterback or at least not drafting high so right.
But when I when I think of that though, I think of like that true bridge quarterback.
And I'm not saying that they should do this, but like Russell Wilson would be a bridge quarterback. Like you try Russell Wilson for a year or two, see if it works out, and then you go back into the draft. Uh I would I would just say that Jacoby Brissett's calling card, and like what makes him an intriguing candidate to be signed as a veteran backup is that he's He's just a really good freaking dude, right, So, like
you bring him in, he mentors the guy. He starts some games for you in the beginning of the year if you need him to uh and and then you bring you know you.
It's a mini bridge. It's not like a bridge bridge.
But what was it?
There's another part of somebody's question that I can't remember now, all right, never.
Mind, all right, Well, this one I think is directed at you. This is from Christian. I'm gonna just read this word for word. I'm gonna try to capture Christian's tone here because I think it's good. Okay, Why in the hell is Drake May a better fit? Every snap Drake May has taken has been in shotgun, just like
the rest of them. If you want the best deep ball rollers or boot throwers, it's Daniels and Caleb May throws the ball inaccurately when he rolls out and doesn't set his feet even I assume that's supposed say Evan even has the brain has flu brain for sure. There's a second part to this as well. He sent another email, so that last one was at ten thirty nine. This is at ten fifty five. All caps do not take May. We watch him every week and he's nothing special, dude, and please fix your hat.
Ah, I didn't even know that you could see me.
To be fair with the hell, Oh yeah, no, you've been upped whole time. I'm glad you broke the seal on us wearing hats on the show. I always wanted to do that.
I didn't know that you could see me.
But second of all, I just every single time I bring up Drake May in a conversation for the Patriots, this is where it goes.
People just get like furious. I don't understand.
Oh, Christian, there's a thirty email from Christian. He's from North Carolina, so he's echoing with Eldridge.
Okay, cool, So you like grew up in North Carolina or something, so now you know everything about Drake May. Sorry, like no one else can watch him and have an opinion, and you wrought the thirty mail.
I'm I'm only gonna look at Boston College quarterback.
Oh, don't make the same mistake I did with Philder kobc Yeah. Here's the the first email from Christian. This was at ten o'clock. This was right when the show started. Hello, guys, I need help. I seriously can't not see what everyone else does with Drake what everyone else does with Drake May. I've watched film on all the QBS, including every game they played last year as well.
You watched the film.
I just don't see it. I just feel like everyone heard the big name people say he's number two QB and accepted it. Some people explain to me what they see because I see Daniels as being a way better prospect. Thank you. So I just think Daniel's second best quarterback in this class. But I don't think it's that close. Or I do think it's very close. Sorry, I do think it's very close. We do the tube. But anyway, your response him, what in the why in the hell
is Drake May a better fit? Is the lead? Here?
I keep on telling you, I keep on telling everybody why he's a better fit.
Well, I guess people tell people tell Christian he doesn't see it so well, he's from.
North Carolina, so he'd know better than me.
Oh boy, here we go. It's from Chad. This specifically does, so I'm doing my due diligence on QBS in this year's draft. Who do you think based on that? In Truevan, this is going to be about.
I just.
I'm doing I'm doing my due diligence on QBS in this year's draft, and I'm currently on JJ McCarthy. Now, I'm not saying he should be a top five prospect with the likes of Williams and and Daniels, but he could be a fringe Day two candidate and potentially sit behind event until he's ready. That's not what I truly want. But JJ's made some really good throws strate his career. Chad in Atlanta, Honestly, I didn't like where that was starting. I agree with you, well, minus the last part about he's,
you know, made some good throws at his career. Yeah, that that's what he is. He's like a fringe day two pick. He's like a back get into the top one hundred pick that you have a Jordan Love type plan for that You're gonna sit for a year or two behind an established starter. No chance he needs to play in developing and that's not what I want to see the Patriots do. They don't JJ McCarthy is a perfect fit for the Patriots if it's twenty eighteen and
they still have Tom Brady for two more years. J J. McCarty's the exact kind of guy they draft in that situation when you don't have a clear starting quarterback. Not so much.
Yeah, I mean, like, the bottom line with JJ McCarthy is ounce is that both you and I are gonna be wrong, right, Like I put him wrong in air quotes because I think we probably will end up being right in the long run.
But JJ McCarthy is gonna go in the first round, like.
Yeah, no, And I've said that I never underestimate how dumb these teams can do. Sorry, And the.
League likes him better than everybody than the media does that. You know that that everybody loves that report, right right?
You know JJ McCarthy.
League's higher on him than draft media, League's higher on him than whatever, Zach.
That was Zach Wilson Man. That's my comp and I'm sticking to it.
Yeah, yeah, cool, And I didn't Michael Michael Penix will go in.
The third round and and the third round.
J J. McCarthy will go in the first round, and Penix will be the better player in the NFL like that.
Yeah, that's on them.
Zack Wilson. Man, I'm sticking by that comp Zach Wilson to a team. And remember I didn't Zack Wilson was my TBI six in that draft item behind Kyle Trask who didn't pan out. But they got Tom Brady and everything changed. Uh, all right, I guess they already had Tom Brady. But this is from Gierm. I apologize, I'm pronouncing that wrong. Germ, Hey guy, this is a really good emails. Is a really good point. Hey, guys, I
was thinking about trade targets. Don't you think maybe Kyle Pitts should be one that would fit the new offense. Haven't heard anything of him being on the trade block, but just an idea. Since the Falcons are changing their coaching staff. I don't know what it would take to get Kyle Pitts because there hasn't been that much credit. But we talked before about finding your David Joku. Kyle Pitts a better version of that player. Despite what Arthur
Smith would have you believe. The one trade down idea I entertain is three for eight next year's first and Kyle Pitts if they're gonna trade down, that's what I would do. Now, there may be other ways to get Kyle Pitts. If it's Kyle Pitts for like a third, absolutely absolutely I would do that. Kyle Pitts in this offense I think would be a tremendous fit. Evan, I don't know if you agree, but if you can't tell, I'm still high on Kyle Pitts despite what despite the Falcons' best efforts.
Kyle, I think the biggest thing with Kyle Pitts is you need to look at it and realize, like, is this just a player that hasn't been used correctly or does he just not have a position in the NFL? And I would probably agree with you, but that's definitely a question that when you watch his film in Atlanta and you kind of diagnose the situation is is he just one of those guys that's kind of like a tweeter and you just don't really know where to put them and that.
Kind of it's difficult.
Or is he somebody that's just being underutilized and used incorrectly. But it was the trade down scenarios earlier. Remember I said that something was jogging my mind. So the Patriots are at three, right, Arizona's at four, and then the Chargers are at five.
Yep, how much Danny Ainge do is? Does Elliott Wolf have?
Oh? This is different, this is different. It's not the NBA Draft. I wouldn't risk it.
Because those two teams are not going to take.
Quarterbacks, right, But could especially the Chargers. Could the Chargers move back for a team that wants to take a quarterback. I'm just saying, then you get jumped.
Okay, I agree with you that it's it's probably too rare.
So what you're saying is basically, trade down and take a quarterback. That's what you're saying.
What I'm saying is is.
That you're saying, trade down, take quarterback.
There's a chance that you could probably get and it's probably a quarterback. But I'm just saying, there's a chance that you could get the same player at six that you want at three, because those two teams are going to take non quarterbacks.
I have.
That's what I'm saying.
Put this tablet down to find my list here. Do you know the last time a team traded down in the top five?
I know, I know you did your research, but I'm just telling you that that is that not awesome.
This is you are talking about something, Evan, that hasn't been attempted in thirty years, and all it takes is the Falcons or the Raiders or whoever trading up to five and your entire offseason plan is shot. The last quarterback that was traded down for period, forget range. No team has traded down and taken a quarterback in the first round since twenty thirteen. That was EJ. Manuel. The Bills went from eight to sixteen and took him. He
was the only first round quarterback that year. The only other times it's happened really in our lifetime, so that was twenty thirteen. The last one before that two thousand and three, when the Bears moved back and took Rex Grossman, but they got two first. They moved back from four, they got thirteen and twenty two, and they took Grossman at twenty two. Meanwhile, they missed on a Byron Left or see only the quarterback they missed on two thousand and two.
It was the first time for everything though.
Right two thousand and two, Washington moved back from twenty one to thirty two to take Patrick Ramsey nineteen ninety nine. Somebody, I think it's the Bears moved back from seven to twelve to take Cade McNown missed on Dante Culpepper. By the way, the last time it happened in the top five, Kerry Collins. The Panthers went from one to five to take carry Collins. Then Houston Oilers took Steve McNair third. Overall, you believe in the quarterback, you take them. It's different
than other positions. You believe in the quarterback, you take them. It's a nice idea. Danny Andes Jason Tatum, all that doesn't work in this league, doesn't work with that position.
Okay, I'm just saying that that I don't hate. I would stay at three and take the quarterback, okad, But I get.
It you're bringing it up.
And the trade down scenario is like, realistically, if if they.
If we just say that they don't like the quarterbacks, yeah, they don't like quarterback, that's left.
Then the trade down scenarios are are very intriguing.
I know it's what nobody wants to hear, but they could really set themselves up with a war chest if they were to do that.
So I think the trade down makes sense for me. The way I look at the board and is how I look at it, like they need to add more picks, they need to add more top fifty picks. I look at trading down from thirty four because I think like forty to seventy is a real strong point in this draft. So I think you move down from thirty four, maybe pick up you know, an extra second this year or nextra second next year. Like I like the idea of trading down to add assets. I just do it in
the second round to the first round. Nicholas asked about if the Commanders may go with Jane Daniels for Drake May. We talked about that. We both think yes.
Uh.
The subject to this one just says last Chance You. So I'm very excited because I like, if you haven't watched Last Yan to You on Netflix, definitely checking out awesome, awesome football documentary. It's a series they follow a Juco team every year, and actually the guy who produced it is going to be doing the Red Sox Netflix series that's coming out. So definitely recommend Last Chance to You. So Craig says Pats fan from the UK since two
thousand and six, new listeners since the international game. We love that seen one series of Last Chance to You with d Or Scott. I remember de Or Scott who went to uh Hawaii. Oh yes, about Patriots signing him. That was, yeah, it was a while ago. The Last Chance You played. My question is the Last Chance You players last in the NFL due to limited knowledge of the college system. There's a couple Last Chance to You
guys hanging around. I think that documentary ultimately hurt a lot of guys because they didn't all they paint players in the best light. There's been a couple guys, what's his name, the running back were Kim Sanders from Arkansas. He was in that. He hung around the league a little bit. Pat's about a couple guys in camp Us. I'm trying to remember who it is. There's one last Chance to You player, one last Chance You player who's
in the league who's really good. But he was never They only would only feature like seven or eight players, and he wasn't one of the featured players. He was on the team and like you saw him in the background, but I don't think they ever interviewed him. I can't remember who that was anyway. I appreciate the question, and Chance talked about last Chance too. I got a couple more here, Uh, David uh Boston Dave says, I heard you say Drake May is perfect for the offense, not perfect,
just the best fit. I heard you say Drake May is perfect for the offense. Is Pennis or Fields a fit for the offense? A VP is gonna run? We talked about this. I think Penis is a really good fit as well. Justin Fields, No, because they strung goal to add that quarterback run element with Deshaun Watson, and you're gonna need the quarterback run element to make it work with Justin Fields.
Yeah, yeah, I look. I I just think it's hilarious.
I think nothing gets people more rouled up than me saying that Drake May is a good fit for this offense and Jayden Daniels is not as good of a fit.
I don't look, Jayden Daniels is Uh. He deserves a lot of credit.
Like he's got like a whole marketing team for himself down in North Carolina.
That's just people. So you know, like that he's in good hands.
Like if only he could be drafted by the Panthers.
Yeah, oh my goodness, like it's it's incredible, all.
Right, Claire checking in Claire from the UK right now, and I reserve the right change my mind. I may all the way. I would like see a big, tough, broad shouldered quarterback who can take hits and stuff, not a little guy who can run around and not read the field as much. I don't know who that's about.
I would he just wanted to get the broad shoulder game.
There also said she's met on Kyle Pitts, which I'm surprised of from Claire. I would think it's kind of tight end that that she'd be interested in. Ryan says, been watching your mock drafts for years. I always love hearing the players, you like, it's fun to think this might be the first year they actually picked some of them. No, we had Marcus Jones, we nailed that one. We had them taking Cole Strange one year. It wasn't in the first round, but we had them taking Cold Strange. We've
hit on a couple, you know. I don't know if that was supposed to be a shot at us or not, but we did.
You know, I think both of us loved Christian Gonzales.
We just didn't think We didn't think he'd be on the board right.
And we had to respect the board, and it turns out that we didn't.
Now that I think about it, I don't know if this is a shot at us or a shot at the previous draft saying like, oh, you know the guys you like, now they'll take them because they'll take good player. I think I feel more interested than ever in draft Talk's been hard to get excited for drafts when they chose Day three guys on Day one or day two. Love getting excited about draft talk. Let's see what else this one's to me, Alex. I like your direction. Love for this is.
Uh.
I want to pitch this and get your thoughts. Trade down to Falcons at eight, get Pits and next year's first for three, then get Pennix in the second round and get Gardner Minshew in free agency. I mean, I still want to take the quarterback at three, but like I said, this is the one trade down I'll entertain. Let's say at eight, you either get Joe Alter Malik Neighbors at eight, Yeah, and then you have Pennix and you have the Falcons first next year. Wouldn't be my
least favorite thing. I don't know that that would be an a for me, but I would give it a passing great for sure. I don't know about you, Evan.
Yeah, I think that, like I said earlier, the trade down scenarios, if you're not falling in love with one of these quarterbacks that's going to be available to you, then that those are those are all viable scenarios.
Like I think that's probably what I would do.
If you're not going to take a quarterback at three and you're you're because you're not sold on one of these quarterbacks, then I'd be trading down and trying to accumulate assets because you're still probably gonna get like once we get past the quarterbacks and Marvin Harrison Junior, let's face it, like Joe alt Olofashanu Malik neighbors, like these are all kind of the same level of prospect.
At that point. Yeah, this is why, like people are just sending emails in because they know what we normally don't like read through emails like this. So I apologize Evan for hijacking your show, but literally, as I'm reading them, more people are sending them in. Robin the Katskills. Any thoughts on Jordan Travis in later rounds, Like later, So, Jordan Travis, quarterback of Florida State.
Play, is he even gonna play next year?
So?
I guess down at the he went to the Shrine Bowl to do interviews, and I guess he was telling people he thinks he'll be cleared by October. So like, yeah, look, if it's the sixth round, he shouldn't be your only quarterback pick. If you're telling me it's the sixth round, they feel like they've had a very completet. You want to bring him in. Yeah, I mean he showed some interesting stuff at Florida State. He is really small, Yeah, and that worries me, especially for a guy that's had
this kind of injury. If you want to take him late on Day three as a second quarterback knowing you're probably gonna keep him on NFI all year. Sure, I mean he's worth a six round flier. I wouldn't be opposed to that. I don't know about making him your quarterback pick. I wouldn't make him your plan. I would say, if you come out of the offseason he's the only quarterback you've added, you still don't have any true direction a quarterback.
Yeah, I agree with that, all right.
Last one, here we go Catch twenty two Patriots position philosophy. We love philosophy questions, and then we actually got a call too, So appreciate you guys carrying the show.
Somebody from North Carolina.
Philadelphia Hello. Thinking about last year's rookies after drawd Mayo's hiring, I've been wondering if the team's view on player positions will change. Most notably, I'm wondering if Belichick or Mayo viewed Marte mop who was a safety rather than a linebacker. Did Mayo make the decision to play Mac Wilson on
the edge rather than as an inside linebacker. With someone like James Williams out of Miami, And we got to pay attention to the Miami guys now because Alonzo Highsmith's in the front office is working with the loot you last year. Does somebody like James Williams out of Miami be a linebacker or a safety? Into odds isaact cetera, et cetera. I genuinely hope Mayo sets guys up for success and plays them at their best positions. Love the show.
I appreciate you guys sharing knowledge with us. Best Carlos, So, great question. Great question. Let's start with Mapu because after the draft we came in here, Evan, you were so happy, encouraged that he was going to be a linebacker and they're gonna modernize their defense. And he kept rolling your eyes at me when I said they drafted him to be a big safety and then he became a big safety.
Does that maybe change this year? Because to another part of the email, Mayo, was it Mayo or Steve Belichick at the towards the end of the year talked about, yeah, we were playing Mac Wilson incorrectly his first year. One of them said that, yeah, is is there a wreck ignition? And do you think they used Marte Mapu correctly this year? And a few chances he did play on offense? And do you think maybe he gets to play a more true linebacker role next year?
I guess it depends on if Kyle duggars here or not. Like, if Kyle Duggar is here and they are they're able to to be more flexible with Marty Mapu, then I could see that If Kyle Dugger is not here, then I think that he's Kyle Duggar's replacement.
Like I I just I have kind of sort of succme to.
That isn't Kyle Duggart's replacement, though well, Jabil.
Peppers isn't gonna like man up tight ends and things like that. You know, I don't know.
I'm not for I think in a lot of ways for the better. Like I'm not necessarily saying this is like a super negative thing, don't. I don't necessarily think that they're gonna philosophically change all that much on defense like that, They're gonna sort of look at positions and look at body types and and look at roles and stuff like that.
Pretty similarly, I don't think it's a philosophical change. I guess it's more And it's a good point in the email the way it's phrased. With mac Wilson, it wasn't a philosophy change with mac Wilson. They realized the guy was better used doing something else. Do you think there's a chance that something similar happens with Marte Moppua? I guess is the point?
I think that, yes, But I think that they might look at it and say, well, we're gonna use him for the Kyle Duggar role, not Kyle Duggar's role last year, but like Kyle Duggar's role when Devin mccordy was still here, and he's going to be close to the line of scrimmage and playing at the first and second level and like that, it all.
Is kind of the same at that.
But you want kind of thing, yeah, yeah, this, uh, well.
We'll see. But you mentioned the loons of Heismith.
I know we talked about him earlier, but one of the things that I think is encouraging about him too is that, you know, he's really good at like being like a liaison between the players, the coaching staff and the front office with the players and is somebody that like is almost like a sounding board for the players to like kind of come to him and then you know,
say come with you know, concerns or whatever. And I think that's like a really important role because it kind of separates Elliott Wolf from like the players a little bit, right and kind serves as like a buffer between those. So I'm actually very encouraged about him being on the staff. I think that's a really good hire.
And I mean, you get a former player in that front office where Cameron Williams played in college, but you know, former NFL, high profile NFL player. You don't need your entire front office to be former players. They don't need your entire coaching staff to be former players. But you shouldn't be entirely devoid of them either. I truly believe that. So I think high Smith adds that important elmet Let's go to William and Philadelphia on the phones. William on a very interactive catch twenty two.
What's going on out?
Hey?
What's going on to you too? Evan?
How you doing all right? Now?
So I have was I just want to say this one first, Well, so much pushback on Drake may Man.
That's wow.
I ain't knew Patriot's fans was out on him like that. I like Drake Mayy. I know, maybe maybe he can do those passes. I don't know. Maybe he wasn't asked, Maybe he was just asked to be in a shotgun scheme and whatnot. No, I don't know. Excu's the noise in the background. Sorry, I'm outside right now.
I do right now.
Well, I want to ask you some co questions in terms of the draft whatnot. So what do y'all think about? Well, I'm gonna say no, let me say this one first, Evan, that you were coming out Mark Marvin Harrison Jr. Look, I know the Patriots fans, we all want him in all do not get me wrong, But I like Roman what's the name Roman Wilson from Michigan. Guy, my god, I'm with you. Uh we gotta get him.
Yeah.
That one hand catch that did it for me. I was like his rowse, he looks so crisp doing him joint. I was just like, oh, man, can we please get him? And also, what do you think of Brandon Rice? And uh, who was the other one? There was another one, Brandon Rice, which has Jerry Rice done?
Do you remember the school?
Yeah?
What school was that?
I can't I can't think of the other receiver though, Oh the one receiver everybody talking about. What's his name name?
Cocky?
Oh Lad mccakkeye, Yeah, Lad mccaukaye from Georgia.
My goyeah, man, I.
Mean, I mean, I get it. I understand. He's like a Julian. I get he he's always open.
I get it.
I get it.
But I still want Roman Wilson. I want something a little different. That's just me personally.
All right, Thanks for the call, William all right, take care now. So it's funny he brought those two names up. I'm working on my mock draft right now. Give a little spoiler alert. I'm I'm deciding between Brandon Rice and Roman Wilson, and I'm really going back and forth. Those are two good players, as you like to say't I think that's a flavor thing, right, what do you want? They're both good, but they both win completely differently.
Yeah, I was really impressed with both of them.
And Mobile, I mean, remind Wilson, as as Williams said, is just he's he's crispy, right, Like his routes are just efficient, quick, sudden, all of the things that you love. Sets up routes fantastically well, great ball skills. You know, I had the one handed catch, but he caught the ball really well all week. He's a smooth criminal out there like that.
That's what he does. Brendan Rice is yeah, you know, he's he's an ex He's a bullyball receiver.
He But I think what it was impressive about him, you know, first day was a lot of the contested catches, a lot of you know, grabs through traffic and things like that. But then on day two, he ran some routes and actually got open. I thought he got it open in the red zone periods too, and in day three a little bit. So I think he's someone that even for his size six twoish, he can get down and he can sink and come in and out of
breaks and things. I don't think he's gonna be a dynamic, top of the out type of guy, but for his size, I think he can do that. So it depends what they tackle in free agency. And I know that some people think it's a cop out, but this is the biggest thing that that gets on my nerves, Alex is, like we're talking about these things like free agency doesn't exist. So like if they if they signed Michael Pittman or they signed t Higgins or something like that.
Oh no, it's not going to be Brandon Rice, right, shouldn't.
If they signed Calvin Ridley, then it's probably not going to be a Roman Wilson, right, like you know, Like so like that, that's that's all it is. And it's good to talk about all these guys because you get all the different sort of flavors that they would be at their disposal. I still think Brandon Rice is in this class, it's such a deep receiver class. Is he a third round pick? Is he maybe, you know, probably a late third round pick something like that. But I
don't know if he's necessarily going to go. I think Roman Wilson could go very high, like not first round, but uh, you know, someplace in the second round.
I think he might fall a little bit. And that's not to say he's not a good player. I think teams value production. He doesn't. And some of this is just the class, right, he doesn't have the production that some of these other guys do. He's a little bit on the smaller side.
Would he have had the production that some of these other guys do if he played at a different.
See Yeah, but but how many teams miss that? Like look at where Pokinako went last year? Yeah, and this thing he went. I think teams are more willing to say that, Like I look at Tank Dell who went in the third round that year. Like Tank Dell went to Houston. They weren't a Power five school at the time. I think teams are more willing to look at a guy like that, whereas like Roman Wilson went to Michigan.
So yeah, I know, but it's a run first offense with JJ McCarthy as the quarterback. Like if Roman Wilson's getting fed the ball in CFB last year, if he's in Washington's offense, like if you imagine the numbers he would have put up with Michael Pennix last year, it would have been you know, like that. That's that's My only point is just that he is not the competition or anything like that. It's more just like the type of offense that he was in. You know, they ran fall percent of the time.
Yeah, no, that I'm just we know NFL teams don't always get this right. And romand William Roman Wilson, we talked about J. J. McCarthy the other way. Yeah, teams love JJ McCarthy and they're gonna kind of look at Roman Wilson and be like, well, we love this quarterback and this guy didn't really produce.
So I.
Screams Roman Wilson, screams the guy the league missed. It's not me saying I don't like him, that I think he's gonna fall. It's just all these receivers that we've seen fall the last few years. It's a gut thing like romand Wilson to me, is the guy that a year from now. We're sitting here and I'm trying to make the case that the Patriots can draft some guy on day three instead of in round three instead around two.
And I'm sitting here saying, well, look at romand Wilson last year, Like he just screams that kind of guy to me. So he's a mon ross name Brown, That's I don't know why couldn't think of his name. I was trying to think of his name. Thank you? Yes, who is actually your comp for hims? So perfect?
Yeah, so Lad McConkie is I like Laddi McConkie.
I think that he was more a little bit more explosive, a little bit more bursty than I gave him credit for before I saw him in person. But yeah, that's such a setting that Lad McConkie should shine in. Like there's no there's not a ton of contact.
It's one on ones.
Like if you're a route runner, if you're a guy that gets open like that, you have to be able to get open in that type of setting in mobile otherwise you're you're you're really in trouble. So I don't want to put too much stock in lad McConkie at the Senior Bowl during one on ones because like that's that should be his bread and butter.
I still think he's at his best as like a strong number two receiver. I still don't know if he's a coverage dictator.
Yeah, yeah, that's more than fair.
All right. As we wrap it up here, we work through all the calls, who work through all the emails again on a very interactive catch twenty two. It is super Bowl week. Yeah, super Bowl week. We've got the Niners and the Chiefs in a couple of days. We can do picks for the game. But more so we kind of talked about it earlier. Evan, I'm just what do we learn? I say this every year there's something there's one big lesson learned from every Super Bowl. It's
always something different, copycat league. There's always one big lesson learned from every Super Bowl that you see kind of become, you know, a trend or teams try to pick up on,
or just a focus or something like that. And sometimes it depends who wins I or sometimes it's on Huluse the Chiefs, the Chiefs Buck super Bowl in twenty twenty, I thought kicked off a lot of you talked about earlier, the lines with Pinney seool this, Hey, we've got to put more into building the front because you had the Bengals kind of get run out of the playoffs with the bad front, and then you had the Chiefs just unable to block anybody with all those weapons they had.
They had Peak Kelsey, peak Tyreek Kill with Patrick Mahomes all of that. As you look at this Super Bowl, what is maybe the lesson that we're gonna end up taking away from the Sunday night that we we come back here on this show next week could say, well, the Patriots should do this because of what happened in the Super Bowl.
It's a good question.
I think it's gonna be something that I don't necessarily subscribe to, you know. I think it's gonna be something that I'm gonna end up being wrong about, uh, in the in at least some ways.
Yeah.
Uh, I look at it and say that it's either gonna be something about defense. Rightley, Defense still still holds up.
Defense still matters win championships. Yeah, whether it's Spags doing his thing or the Niners defense playing better because they actually, you know, the Niners defense hasn't actually been that great for most of the year, or I think it could come down to these two running backs, like this is a really good Not that Isaiah Pacheco and Christian McCaffer are going up against each other, but this is a those are two really dynamic backs.
Uh.
And I wouldn't be surprised if if we come out of this game and one of those guys is Super Bowl MVP.
I wouldn't.
So I think that you're gonna see some of that, you know, Kansas City in my mind, you know, what they've how they've turned mostly into like the Patriots of old in my eyes, is that they've now realized that wherever their talent around Patrick Mahomes takes them, they can kind of just ebb and flow with wherever they can
find the talent. Right like now, it started with Patrick Mahomes and it's they're this high flying offense they you know, eighteen nineteen Kansas City is like one of the best offenses in the NFL history, like up there with those seven Patriots.
Then they lose some of that offensive.
Talent, but the board follows towards defense for them, and they add Trent McDuffie and they add lugerious need, and they add you know, they have Chris Jones there already, and now all of a sudden, they're like this offense that does just an enough that you know, we're gonna score twenty four on offense and our defense is gonna hold you to twenty one.
Right like that, That's like, which.
Is what they've kind of the model that we thought the Patriots are going forward the last few years.
Yeah, you know, it just it seems like that.
That's what makes the Chiefs so unique is that, like they have Mahomes, so they know that they're gonna get some offense. Like they're not gonna be completely shut out on offense, but they have kind of they've morphed, they've changed the way that they play football now. So it's gonna be interesting to see if that's gonna be enough against the forty nine ers.
I hoped a big prevailing takeaway from the Super Bowl, as you.
Know, Alex, is that Kyle Shanahan has finally anointed himself as as a great head coach. That's what That's what I hope, But I don't know if that's gonna happen.
So I got to give you the list on on Shanahan because and we've talked about this off the year. I don't know that we've ever had this conversation on the air. But first, just my thoughts on the lessons we might learn from the Super Bowl outside of Mahomes that chiefs offense does not have a lot of talent, really doesn't like Rashi Rice is fine. I don't know that he'd be as productive anywhere else. They'd kind of
have to force feed him the ball. And I really like Isaia Pacheco, But I mean, is it that in terms of just talent outside of the quarterback position, is it that different than what the Patriots have? Not, which, to me, the lesson would be do everything he can to get the quarterback. And this is applying this is looking at through the lens of a draft guy to everything he can to get the quarterback because he's gonna
be able to elevate if the Niners win. The lesson isn't Evan I actually wrote about this off something off an interview you had. I forget if it was Matt I think it was Matt Grow. You interviewed matc Grow and Cameron Williams at the Senior Bowl and I forget which one of them gave the quote about all the teams in the final round of the playoffs have explosive playmakers on offense. Yeah, okay, so I took that quote
really ground level phase value. All right, let's talk about the teams that made the deep He used the word deep run, so we'll call it the final four. Yeah, forty nine ers their best skill position players, George Kittle, Deebo, Samuel Brandon, Ayuk, Christian McCaffrey. Three of those four guys were not first round picks by the Niners. The other one was a late first round pick after they'd already
established their offense. The Detroit Lions, they did use a first round pick on Jameson Williams, but that was after they added their real weapon, their real leader offensively, Aman Ross Saint Brown in the fourth round.
Yeah.
You look at the Chiefs Travis Kelsey Day two pick, Rashie Rice drafted later on Isaiah Pacheco's seventh round pick. The one exception may be the Ravens because they did use a first on Za and I think Baitan was a first round pick too, right, But you look at they got Mark Andrews later on in the draft. They signed Odell Beckham as a free agent. These teams all do have incredible explosive players, the heavy majority of them were not first round picks, at least not by that team.
Right McCaffrey was traded something like that. There's so much skill position talent coming into the league now that you can get. You don't need to use a first round pick to get an elite playmaker. You do soft to correctly identify and develop the guy, which is where I think the Patriots have fallen short. But you do not
need to use a first round pick. Now you look at those teams, how they the quarterbacks three first round picks and brock Purty is when you have the talent the Niners have, you can trust your seventh round quarterbacks. Patriots don't have a time watching.
I know.
I'm the one who said when Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt last year that brock Purty was going to lead them to the conference championship. By the way, I don't know what I'm watching.
He's the next Joe Montage.
Three of the four quarterbacks are first round picks or Jerry Goff traded for first round pick, and the offensive lines are loaded with first round talent. Yeah, I think that's the I think that's the lesson you'll learn. I think that's the lesson you'll learn.
I think you're you're getting into this age of football in a lot of ways. You know, Lions, Niners, you know a lot of these teams are building up the roster around the quarterback and then just drop in quarterbacks that whether it's Jared Goff, Brock Purty level or better. Uh, if they can find better, and then you know, I maybe I would say better would be like Stafford, you know at the Rams, uh and that, and that's how
they've built it. And I think that that in a lot of ways, if you're the Patriots, you do have to look at that model and say, if we take a quarterback at three overall, like, are are we sure that it's gonna work out? Because that quarterback is gonna have to cover up a lot.
But I think the lesson is if you're not gonna do that, you take a tackle, not a receiver.
Yeah.
Right on Shanahan, here's what's a stake. Kyle Shanahan is in his seventh year as the head coach of the night He has not won a super Bowl. He is the longest tenured NFL head coach right now, like with his team, with the team he's on that has not won a Super Bowl. Here's the company he's approaching. There are one, two, three, four, five, six, nine coaches in NFL history who coached somewhere for ten years without winning a Super Bowl. It's eight and then there's a there's
an asterisk here. Marvel Levy, Marv Lewis, Ted Marchibroda, Jeff Fisher, Dan Reeves, Jason Garrett, Andy Reid and Philly he obviously won a Super Bowl later, Andy Reid and Philly, Dennis Green and Jim Mora. Mike Holmgren also coached the Seahawks for ten years, but he had previously won a title with the Packers, so I'm not counting him. My point is, this is the group. Kyle Shanahan has this Super Bowl in two more years to prove to me that he is not Jeff Fisher or Marvel Lewis.
Oh my god, that's ridiculous.
This is his This is his comp right now, Evan, this is his comp He.
Isn't better coach than Jeff Fisher. Stop.
This is it is.
It has not been done a lot. Jeff Fisher is not a bad coach. He was good enough to hang around for ten years. But this these are his peers. This is his company until he wins one. And for what it's worth. So I said he's the longest he's tied. Sean McDermott also fits in this category. They're hired the same year, so you know that his company right now.
I'm root in this game, and this is making me want to root for him even more.
His company right now is Sean McDermott, Marv Lewis, Jeff Fisher, Dennis Green, Jim Morden. You're gonna say he's Philly, Andy Reid because Andy Reid is on this list. I threw that one in for you when you missed it.
He is that I That's a comp I would always I use all the time.
Though he's gotta leave San Francisco then, no, now this is his this is his time. He's got to leave, saying he needs Patrick Malomes, he needs the best quarterback in the league to win a super Bowl.
If he's Andy Reed, No, no, he's winning super Bowl.
You got it real quick? Who you got?
I got the Niners. Go Niners, baby, I'm a Niners fan.
I'm rooting for the Niners, and I want to just I want to shut up all these narratives about my guy, Kyle Shanahan, and I want to I don't want to hear your lists anymore comparing him to Jeff Fisher and Marvin Lewis.
So it's not my list, that's a fact.
Picking with I'm picking with that.
I'm picking with my heart, and I'm saying forty nine ers get done and Kyle Shanahan finally gets it done.
So we will be watching the super Bowl together. We will be we will be rooting for the same team, the Niners. I'm not betting against Chiefs. I'm not betting against Patrick Mahomes. I watched Tom Brady for twenty four years playing how many of these games. I know how this works when that guy's in this game. I know how that works. And I'm not saying Patrick Mahomes is Tom Brady, but he's this ever's equivalent. I think the
Chiefs win. I want the Niners to win because I want my takes about Jimmy Garoppolo and the the net neutral quarterback and and you know pass catchers on Day two. I want all that to pan out, even if it means you get your Kyle Shanahan take, but that's who I've got. Anyway. We'll be back next week, hopefully finally in the same studio once again. I We'll obviously have a lot more to get into personnel wise, getting closer
to free agency and the combine. But until then, for Ev Lazar, I'm Alex part Thanks tuning in Patriots Unfiltered coming up next.
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