Patriots Catch-22 10/3: 3 Up/Down vs. the 49ers, Dolphins Preview

This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bar Blazar and Lazar.

Everybody nailed it joined us always buy our bar gap. Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars. You're not usually into the numbers.

I'm just I'm okay we do something. I'm into the tangible numbers. There's there's just give me the advantage. And in fact, you haven't know how to work it. I'm surprised, Like, you know, an old man over here. I thought maybe i'd have to show you like a tutorial or something.

How am I old man? You're an old man because you you don't like the stats, even though you're this generation. You're supposed to like stats. You're supposed to be. Sorry, I don't know you want me to tell you. You're supposed to be mister. You know you're like E P A, d v O A next gen. You know you're supposed to eat that stuff up like that's that's literally why they put that stuff on the broadcast now for people like us, the nerds.

But don't plant me in with that.

This is when they do that, you know the replay.

I'd rather see the color guy explain x's and ohs, Why the play that happened happened?

This is my Roman empire is thinking about the fact that you are just as much of a nerd as me, but you're also anti nerd at the same time. It doesn't compute in my head.

And you know how I feel about you hating country music and liking Morgan Wallen.

All right, I'm gonna end it there with the computer. Wait, what are you doing?

What do you do about to plug my computer before the show?

Oh? Geez, is that like a thing that you have to do right this? Yeah, it's almost dead. Okay, all right, do you do your You do your thing? Uh So Evan Lazar Alex Bars Patriots Cast twenty two with you for the next couple of hours, will take your phone calls or take your emails. I just want to put this out there, and I know you told me not to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway because I feel bad. I'm going to put it out there that you know we I almost treat this show almost

Well, look, I think it will get better than that. You also have to consider what the offensive line was, and that certainly led to some limitations. Right, you have a guy making his first career NFL start, he played fourteen snaps before Sunday and Trey Jacobs. I don't mean to pick on him, but oh, your fifteenth NFL snap.

Nick Bosa, Like that's tough.

Yeah, that's really tough. So the offensive line would be better. But I agree with you kind of in the big picture that I think this is kind of the offense philosophy they're gonna have.

Under Jakobe Brssett.

But I still think, and I know we disagree on this, but I just still think there are certain things that the offensive line is going to cap their ability to do, regardless of who the quarterback is, especially right now, and guys aren't healthy, and they'll get some guys backs, some guys they won't get back, right, And David Andrews are still waiting to hear about Kaden Wallace, But yeah, I mean, this is it, Kandy is what is this is the group they put together.

Yeah, I mean, I'm in agreement with you on the offensive line at this point, mainly because now there's so many injuries to boot with all of the other issues that they have talent wise, right, just in general that you know, you lose David Andrews, you have no idea who your left tackle is going to be weak in

I just I just I'm curious or I don't know if you're going back on the take you had last week or from just missing it.

But remember last week talk.

About the Rams are figuring it out even though they have their injuries and whatever, and I said, yeah, but their injuries, it's different because they're starting from a higher point. This was kind of my whole tape when we had that conversation last week.

Yeah, was they are who they are. Yeah, I what changed for me And granted it it's probably even premature now, but because the forty nine ers are just a much better team than you are. But what changed for me is I actually thought the game plan and the script that they called last week was what they have to do with this group. They came out and they got

Like?

So I had people kind of on Twitter during after the game on Sunday being like, well, you said this could be a top ten defense when camp started, like and you know you were wrong, blah Blah's like, well, yeah, I said a unit that had Christian Barmore and Matthew Judon and Juwan Bentley could be a top ten defense. You lose those guys, you don't just get to be a top ten defense off reputation. So I still think they're playing below the level of talent of the guys

Yeah, that's why I don't really they had to have had to plan probably Kean right, Joshua and Fredy general we can get to uch.

We kind of said that at this at the time, that like, how is this going to work?

Now?

There are still guys like josh Ucha who I think are are not playing well right now, hurting them. But I also do think you have to look at it as this is not the defense we spent the summer talking about. It is not the same play. You could argue they've lost three are the best four three and you want to throw Kyle Dugger in there as well. For their best six defensive players. Right, they still have Gonzales,

Rr.

But we didn't know because those guys have only played one year. Those five were really supposed to be the cornerstones of your defense. Four of them are now hurt and one they traded away. Yeah, so this is and we knew depth was an issue. We talked about depth being an issue at safety, We talked about depth being an issue at corner. We talked a lot about depth being an issue on the edge. This is just sort of where they put themselves.

Well, I'm just gonna slightly disagree because the main reason being is that I have seen the guys that they have out there play better football.

So, okay, is not this bad? No, no, no, So I agree with you on that. I do think there's more potential for them to be better than they are. But I think part of it for the fans watching, yeah, hearing about what a great defense it was going to be, and then seeing this, that's.

Part of the equation. It should not be this bad up. But there are guys.

Well, Tava is an interesting one because to me, the problem is he's playing out of position.

Well, let's get to it. But I want to unpack it. So I just want to throw out a couple of stats first and foremost, just to kind of set the table here right now. On defense, they are twenty eighth in the league in DVOA. On defense, they are a bottom five defense in the NFL. Number they are twenty eighth.

No, not, you're made up. What do you means not your made up acronyms. Give me a real number. Well, give me a real number of out the defense.

Okay, want a real number? Yes, how about yards per play? Does that work for you?

That's a real number.

Yes, they are twenty seventh in the league and yards that's not good. Guess what they were last year and probably middle of the pack. Third, Oh wow, top five, top five. I'm gonna give you the fake number again because you're a hater.

One fake number, one real number, will do it like this.

Nine. They were ninth in DVOA last year. This was with Matthew Judah and Christian Gonzales basically playing for a quarter of the season, final twelve weeks of the season, and I get it. You know, if Paul was here, he would tell me they played a bunch of Tommy DeVito's and Gardner Minshew's and they'll get one of those on Sunday with Tyler Huntley and maybe the defense will look better. But the point being is that they were

Okay, that's tangible.

The Patriots are thirty first in the league on third down run. It's brutal, thirty first. For the record, I didn't disagree with your take. I just didn't want you to do DVA. I know, thirty first in the league on defense on third down defense last year they were seventh. So they haven't just Christian Barmoard and Juwan Bentley regressed here. They have hardcore regressed. Like this is a major drop off.

Yeah, so you know, you know how I could scoring?

Right?

What's on the scoreboard? What are we talking about there? Yeah? So they actually haven't dropped that much.

In terms of over their scoring. Seventeenth.

They're seventeenth. They finished last year fifteenth. But part of that is because I was actually looking. You just made me think this because looking at something similar earlier. They're running the ball a lot and they're shortening the games. Right, points per drive allowed? You want to guess what they are? You want to do the guessing game?

Wait, give me again, give it to me again.

Points per dry, points allowed per drive. Oh so this is basically they're probably down. You have points allowed, but because the games are so much shorter because the clock running right now, that's why I brought up yards per play. Okay, so yeah, so this is similar. So last year they were actually fifth. Yeah, they allowed one point six yards per drive for just because this is a staff people use a lot. The Ravens led the league at one

Yeah, I understand that there's always that element with this defense that they're on the field a lot in some of these games. Even though that wasn't true for the first two games of the year, it has been true the last two games. There are a time of possession numbers have even doubt. At this point they're middle of the pack, and time of possession after being pretty good in the first two weeks. There, They're on the field a lot, their offense isn't scoring, their margin forreerr is not very big.

To your point, they were on the field a lot last year. Yeah, and relative to how much they were on the field, they are allowing significantly more points this year than they were last year.

Yeah. So my big picture thought, and then I wanted to talk about this forty nine ers game specifically, and then one other big picture type of item, my big picture thought with this team in general, but I specifically look at the defense with Grod Mayo and say, you're a defensive guy, like this is your side of the ball.

Was it sounds like what they did last week with the non negotiables that he was talking about, Like we didn't accomplish the non negotiables.

There's you're not going to fix everything that ails you in one week, right. They're not all of a sudden going to be this buttoned up team with a great offensive line and receivers make and plays in YadA, YadA YadA. It's not gonna look like that. So let's narrow it down to like three or four things that we tangibly feel like we can fix. I feel like they can

What do you have to say about Rock Party?

Evan, good game by Brock, good game by Kyle. But this ye have to say about Rock Party, This stuff, this stuff isn't complicated. Though they they hit four explosives on the same concept, the same post cross concept, they

Not just that, it's not just like, that's not what am I trying to say? Like, remember the first year here, he was like bad and we were all like, why is Johnny Tevai here? And then Bill came out in the summer and was like He's gonna make the team.

We were like what.

And then his first year here he was playing this role, he was playing off the ball. So they have seen him in this role in this defense and it not work. Yeah, So it's not even like all right, well our depths then, so we gotta try this. You know, he's not the guy for that, because they they tried that when did you get here?

Twenty two?

I think right twenty one around there? They try that with him and it didn't work.

Yeah, so they have him playing in a bad position for him. You know that's not going to work. Him playing that far down the field and having to cover receivers and you know athletic receivers, good receivers, you know, I you Brandon Deebo, Samuel Dwan Jennings like really good players. Right, you can't have a two hundred and fifty pound linebacker doing that sort of stuff that to me is coaching.

Well what do you think he would have done, like factoring and they couldn't set the edge, not just containing the quarterback in the pocket, they couldn't set the edge in the run game.

Yeah.

So I just think it's hard to play that way if you can't set the edge in the run game, right.

I think from a personnel standpoint, he would have told them to keep running the ball, you know, not literally, but you know what I'm saying, Like he would have said, it's fine, just run the ball. We're what we're not gonna do is we're not gonna allow the explosive pass plays through the air. We're not gonna allow you to hit the pat You're gonna be able to run the ball today, but you're not gonna be able to And this game would happen was is they let the Niners

Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, And I also just think sometimes what you have to do when all right, the game plan's not working, You gotta tell your blue chip players go out there and make a play. Who are they telling to do that at this point? Like teams aren't throwing your Christianzalz. You can't really do that with a corner, right You had in these situations. Matthew Judon go out there and make a play. Christian Barmer will go out there and make a play. The closes

Yeah, I just I would like to see this staff. They've been pretty vanilla on the defensive side of the ball so far. Maybe some of that is is injuries, I don't know, but really, three weeks in a row, Ryan Grubb, Nate Hackett, who's not a good offensive coordinator with the Jets, and obviously now Kyle Shanahan have had their way with this defense in this coaching staff. On the they've got out coached in three straight games on

You didn't mention that.

I said that seven times because it's can't believe it. Thirty first in the league on third down, and I should mention this too. Their base defense against San Francisco was fifty eight percent. That was the highest base defense rate they've played in the game in the Next Gen era going back six seasons. That's the highest amount of base they've ever played in the game since twenty eighteen. Their other Next Gen Era stat that, I'll give you

That one I don't get, especially against the team league. We talked about this with the Jets. These bigger receivers you don't especially not to play as at Bolden. You don't have the personnel to you know, kind of physically handle bigger receivers in the middle of the field.

Yeah, you've got to win technically, right. So they aren't playing as much third down anymore. They're playing a lot of too high safety shell. They're playing a lot of Cover two on third down. When you play Cover two, especially two man, which they've played a couple reps in of two man against San Francisco. The big ish with playing Cover two is that there's nobody that's assigned to the quarterback. The quarterback, there's no free defender in the box or at the first let's call it the first

The strew just essentially becomes an option play.

Yeah, it's just it's not working on third down schematically. I don't think that it's because they don't have pass rushers. I don't think that it's because they aren't getting pressure on the quarterback. They are just not marrying it all together very well. Right now, Keon White's getting pressure on the quarterback. Yeah, he might be a one man reckon crew, but he's getting there, right, He's getting there. They have to find ways to keep the quarterback in the pocket.

Yeah, the whole draw of drawd Mayo and being able to keep to Marcius Covington. We talked a lot about this when we were doing the coaching stuff back in the winter. Was you want to be able to keep continuity on defense because you're building something on defense, and they haven't done that to this point. Now maybe they're calling it simpler because of the injuries, but again, a

It's definitely frustrating to see.

I do think there is a level of them just playing on discipline, though, and that goes back to your point of either you're coaching it or you're allowing it to happen at a certain point, there isn't a difference. But like, I know, there's supposed to be more aggressive in the rush, but I think there's a line between aggressive and reckless. And at a certain point you watch guys just flying by the quarterback coming up the field,

Yeah, there's there's some stuff going on with how those edge guys are being coached. Yeah, this year compared to how they have been coached in years past. We know because we've been here. And it's also I feel like our listeners know that with Bill running past the quarterback in the pocket would find you some pine time immediately, Like if you didn't stay it was you know, level or you know, at the same level as the quarterback or better up the field, you know, closer to the

It's just two guys. It's at least it's called going back ten years. It's Jude On and it's Chandler Drones. Yeah, and they end up trading Chandler Jones instead of signing him. So clearly that came to it with an extent, you know, But both of those guys could make it work because they were so immensely talented. Nobody on this roster's that town right.

And whenever Judon would run the arc and get back past the quarterback, there was always somebody there to make them right. Right, There's always somebody there to replace him on the sea gap and get into his gap. Whether it was by design or it was just instinct or whatever, those guys were making him whole by allowing him to

I mean just kind of so you know, I was a little more defensive of him the last few weeks in terms of people saying he's holding the ball, like, uh, it's not holding as long as you think the line hasn't been great whatever, don't get me wrong, Like the line was bad in this game too, But I thought this was his worst game of the year. I think he's starting to get sped up.

Yeah, he's, I.

Mean, his internal clocks off. The thing I notice is it almost seems like he's bracing for contact when contact's not there, right, he's anticipating hits. It's less that he's seeing ghosts in the coverage. I almost feel like he's seeing ghosts in the pass rush. Yeah, where he just like assumes he's about to get hit if he's had the ball for like two secs. I think that's leading to some of his accuracy issues because he's throwing as

Can do it.

I don't know how relevant it is, just because he's thirty one years old. We know who he is at this point. His growth, his development really isn't of consequence to this team right now. It's all about Drake may having said I thought it was his worst game of the year, and I think you are starting to see. I know Alex van Pelt said today that he doesn't think that Brissett's field vision or timing is thrown off

Me is all the more reason.

I know people are gonna hate it, but it's all the more reason you'd be patient with Drake May because that is the one advantage Jacoby Brissett definitively has over Drake May. He knows how to handle this. He's been in the spot before, he's been on bad teams, he's been on losing teams.

He's been on teams where.

He gets hit a lot, and he's in the NFL. And yeah, I was about to say no Carolina, Okay, but we're talking about you know, two hundred and forty A. You see edge rushers, not Nick Bosa or Bradley Chubb coming off the edge for Miami. Right So that doesn't mean Drake can't handle it. I just don't want to risk finding out whether he can or can't right now because Jacoby, again, Jacobra sets the guy like, this guy

So the one, the one play where I started to get concerned about his mental wear and tear being sped up. It's third down and he just ran straight into the pocket. Yeah, like straight up.

Into the posts, just like early in the second half. I want to say that that sounds right, I think, I think I know a player talking about.

So it's a it's a mesh concept. So there's the crossing routs over the middle of the field, and then usually with that they pair like a sit right and right over the ball that Hunter Henry runs Hunter it's manton man coverage. The forty nine ers don't cover Hunter Henry, so they blow. They blow the assignment and they don't.

But Brissette's expecting He's not expecting to have that one right.

Like I could see how Brissette would sense that Nick Bosa was starting to turn the corner. But it was one of those plays where two steps up in the pocket would have sufficed, and instead he took five steps up in the pocket. And those types of plays usually happen when a quarterback is sped up or seeing ghosts

He's not the better choice. He's not like if you're actually trying to go out and go one to oh on the Sunday, he's not the better choice.

Yeah, he's not.

And I don't think anybody's disputed that. But if you want to make sure that Drake May gets off to the start you want him to get off to, yeah, then it's got to be Jacoby Ver said at this point because Drake May is not going to have a successful start with the way this line works. I know people are so sick of hearing that, but I'm gonna keep saying it because it's true. This is not your average Let's go to the pressure numbers here.

Well, while you're looking those up, I'll just yea, in my opinion, the areas where I think that Drake May makes them better, he makes them a lot more viable on third down to me, because he can improvise and he can run. So we saw this even against the Jets, where he you know, he picks up that fourth down with his legs. Yep. Jacoba Brissette doesn't bring that element

But I don't want him doing that consistently because then that becomes a habit and he never learns Okay, so right way to play quarterbacks. So, by the way, yeah, so according to Next Gen stats, yes, Jacoby Brissett has been pressured on forty nine point six percent of his dropbacks.

Okay, well, I have a rebuttal to this, but keep going.

Not only set the highest number in the league, it is the highest number in the next gen era. No quarterback has been pressured that much, at least since twenty eighteen. Your rebuttal is going to be pressures are caused by Jacoby were set holding the ball, according to PFF. Now PFF charts pressures a little differently, so there is maybe something lost in translation.

Now you're crossing swords.

But Jacoby Weresset among all qualified quarterbacks the fourth fewest percentage of pressures accounted for seven point five percent. The only guys who are are have a lower percentage of pressures on their own responsibility or Geno Smith, Matthew Stafford and Kirk Cousins.

So this last game against the forty nine ers was the first time where I thought that he was causing his own pressure.

And I'm with you on that, but I think that some of that, Yeah, I thought he was much worse in that regard, I think I can find that number.

So he based off of my charting because I actually charted this myself. I had three sacks on Jacoby. Okay, this game, so he sacked six times. I had three of them on Jacoby. I had two other pressures on Jacoby, so we had five of like the sixteen pressure dropbacks were on Brazil.

So I'm with you on that. But I think the reason that so, why wasn't it like that until now? The overall heat he faced through the first three weeks has led to him just completely losing sense of the pocket and it's gone from bad to worse.

This is a snowball effect.

So I think if you put Drake May in a guy who's less experienced, you're probably gonna say, see the same thing happen, and it'll probably happen quicker.

Okay, So I hear you?

Is it so?

Sorry?

Again? The point I wanted to make though when I brought that up, yeah again, forty nine point six percent, fifty percent. This is not and I know I said this last week, but I feel like I have to keep repeating myself. This is not always going to have to learn how to face pressure in the NFL someday. This is not your basic NFL pressure that he's facing. This is a historic, historic rate. We are in David

If it is.

The problem is with the front office more than anything else, because you simply need better players. This doesn't need to be happening. Yes, offensive line plays bad around the league of every everybody's dealing with the same talent pool. Everybody's dealing with the same talent pool, and the Patriots are still making less of it than everybody else.

So this is not deal with pressure. This is another level. Okay, I hear you. But because I can't get off this because it drives me nuts to watch back quarterback play. It drives me nuts. You know that, and I know it does, and I can't stand it any longer because I'll give you a couple of tangible examples, and I know we don't have the film, so I'm like explaining things. But there's a third down play where he has Kishan Boody wide open on an in cut it's that they

You know.

I actually asked him about it in the locker room and he gave me an hod Its answer. But you know, it's each play is individualized. Like sometimes they're he's saying, you know, sometimes they're coverage base, Like if it's one high, I'm going to read left. If it's too high, I'm going to read right. Sometimes it's just progression reads right. But point being, it's every single play is different of how where he's supposed to open and where his eyes are.

I wonder how much of that's on Van Pelt and what is How are they setting the order of the progressions and could that be changed?

Because I think it should be changed. I both agree on that.

But my bigger picture point is I don't doubt Drake May can make that throw. Now when he's getting hit every other drop back and he's taking some of these big shots to Kobe Is and his bell gets run and his ribs start hurting, and now he you know, three seconds becomes two and a half in his head and things like that. Is he still going to make those those throws?

Then?

I get you don't like watching subpar quarterback play. If you put Drake May in for a game or two, it may elevate. But if he's still facing this level of pressure and he's still taking these kind of hits, is it Are you consistent that he can keep that level or is he going to fall into some of the same stuff Jacobe Is. I just think that's not worth the risk. If your only reason that you want Drake May to play right now is shiny toy, right, I am a Patriots fan. I want to watch this guy,

Don't want to see.

And congratulations, I hope you had fun with your two or three games before.

He got sped up.

That's not and I know I sound alarmist, and I'm not saying it has to be perfect. I'm also not one of these people as saying, wait three years and well a guy draft a loft tackle this year, then a right tackle next year, then a wide receiver, then a center, and maybe in twenty twenty eight. No, I'm just saying get to the base level. I'm just saying, get to below average, below average, put him in. They

That's part of what wasn't sustainable.

You can't let your quarterback get hit like that week after week after week, no matter who he is. Even Brady would get affected by this stuff from time to time. Now he could bounce back. He was also in the league for twenty years and never faced anything like this, so he had a little more tools at his disposal and never had to dig himself quite out of this kind of hole. But I just think that it's it's not again, you're so far beyond what he's gonna have

Okay, so I have one more rebuttal for you. Yeah, because you know that we're we're not gonna move from our points on this. But I still think it's where talking.

Well, I guess sorry, let me just say one more thing. These people are probably hearing this saying, well, he shouldn't play this season. I still think there's so I think there's value in playing this season. I think ideally he should for three reasons.

One his development. Two.

I guess it's kind of two way to be the developmental players around him, guys like Jalen Polk, guys like Pop Douglas.

And also for the front office.

You get to see what he looks like in the context of your off offense and you, I mean, you get an idea of who he is in college. Now you get a better idea, and it's all right, maybe we need to focus more on this than we thought her. Maybe we don't don't need this kind of player as much as we thought, or things like that. In three, you'll put him out there to get some plays on tapes as a sailing point to free agents. Look at what this kid can do. We're trying to build around him.

Yeah, I guess this is just where we and I agree with all the point.

If you just get to a point where he can where you can accomplish some of those things, even if it's not pretty, then I'm okay putting him in. If you can allow if you can get to a point where you can start building chemistry with Jalen Polk, where he can start, you know, really seeing an NFL defense. And I don't mean see a second of it and then have to run for his life. I actually mean get three seconds in the pocket to see it and digest it.

Yea.

If you if you can get to the point where he and throw the ball down the field and put some things on tape that wide receivers might like to see, that's when you put him in the game. I'm just starting to wonder if they're gonna get to that point this year.

Okay, So I agree with a lot of things that you said, and you know that I am definitely hard. I was gonna say something I don't want to say. I'm definitely in the school thought that the development of the pieces around him isn't just as important. I said this all last week, right the development of the pieces around him is just as important and right now. And I want to get to that in a second. But the point of the pressure to me and I understand. I agree that it's not going to be good, but.

I agree with that it's never gonna be good this year.

I really strongly believe in pressure being as much of a quarterback status in an offensive line stat in a lot of ways. And I really strongly believe that he won't be pressured as much as Jacob Eber said because of what he's going to bring to the table. Does that mean that he's gonna be pressured at a at a league average rate at a below app I don't know the exact number. Yeah, I just don't think it's going to be forty nine percent. I think it's gonna

You can't put him out there thinking it's gonna be better, realize it's not better, and then bench them.

You can't do that, so I hear you. I I don't know if you can't do that. Though you can't. No, you can't. We just let me let me finish. I don't know if you can't do that. If you that's the plan, like if you telled him, and this is I'll give you a perfect example. Because of Sunday, I personally feel like it's ludicrous. He is not playing this

Sideline screaming Mike McDonnel at Mike McDaniel, be a better coach.

And all this stuff is happening in Miami right now. If you went to Drake May and I know this is some people are gonna hear this and say, oh, it's that's really disrespectful of the Dolphins. Yeah, I don't really give a crap. If you go to Drake May and you say, this is a nice game for you to play in, So we're gonna play you. We're gonna

You have If you're gonna do that, you gotta come with stones, because one, you risk ticking off Drake may and does he look at it and say no once I'm the starter on the starter, but you risk off off, you risk ticking off Jacoby. Maybe Jacoby says, because he he gave that quote the other day that he thinks it's disrespectful when people say he's just here to take hits. That is literally the definition of Jaco telling Jacoby you

Do you regret the pick? I don't think you start answering that. I don't think it's a great idea either. I'm just sicking idea. I don't think it's a terrible it's a terrible idea.

I disagree you, But I would you bet your job on that working, because that's what you're doing.

This spot is too good to pass up. Like they're literally playing a team that might actually be work. You're favored for the first time.

So what if you win ten to six and Drake May gets his ass kicked? You have to evaluate that and you have to be you're gonna win with Drake May. I don't realize the kids in danger and go back to Jacoba said you have to consider that option.

We're gonna you do that.

We're gonna disagree that wild take. That is a care wild take. You could you're asking for Could it work so here?

Yes?

But I think you're asking for a lot of trouble.

Here's my problem, Max, and I don't want to be alarmist or like hyper hyper what's the word. I don't want to speak, Yeah, hyperbolic? Thank you? I don't, but I was in that locker room after the game on Sunday. The defense is mad at the defense, the offense is

Then you have to make the switch, That's what I'm worried about more than and I think, but then you have to make the switch that you don't get to see.

Okay, don't get bogged down by that. In my opinion about Sunday, I just think it's crazy that he's not playing on Sunday. That's it. I'm just saying to you that right now you have players who are visibly inaudibly frustrated with what's going on with this team and what's going on with this offense and this lack of passing offense. And you can say that, who's Jalen Polk and who's to Mario Douglass to act this way? But the film's

Rather Godshaw sound off, then guys be selfish. They are, but not so we said this a lot like if the locker room, the locker room's gonna dictate in large part when you make the change. We talked about that and it happened with macken Zappi, and that's true. Is changing the quarterback going to do that? If I mean we're talking about what maybe two or three plays a game that it's would you have Jacobe down for his pressures six three sacks, five pressures, so I'm talking about

I mean, as it does because they're gonna score more points.

But if guys are still freelancing. Guys are still I don't think you're gonna see guys that well Drake Mayson out there, so I can't freelan.

It's like, I don't think but I think that the defense. For three years, the defense has been the only thing that.

Are they going to be able to score that many more points to be that much more effective with the line. I just think the line sets too much of a cap. And again I'm not saying don't put Drake May in, but Drake May is not a be all, end all fixed for everything that ails them.

It's not. But I think that Drake May makes it a lot better. I don't know about a lot a lot better. And if I'm gonna sit there on Sunday and watch Jacob said throw pick sixes, anyways, i'd rather watch Drake May throw pick sixes. And I'm not talking about to watch it, but I wouldn't.

But but I almost wouldn't because.

But all you all you people that want to sit him forever. Yeah, all all you people think that, like it's just that him sitting is gonna mean when he comes in eventually that he's going to be this perfect quarterback at that point, like he's still gonna have to learn on the fly. Then did Jordan Love just come in more support around you think as he learned? You think?

I think so did George. Well, we talked about this when we were talking about the packaway in the offseason.

Jordan Love didn't take off until the second half of last year. His first half of last year, he had.

Issues, but he had more support around him. If the rest of the roster wasn't as good, do those issues maybe get exacerbated and pile up and turn into bad habits and turn into things you can't Okay.

So when can we We'll sit him till twenty twenty? All right? How about this? All right? We can make sure that a guy perfect situation before we put him in there.

Can we have a guy in an offense that is predicated and involves the center doing a lot of the pre snap work. Can we have a guy who is not starting his first ever game in the NFL at center that Drake May makes his first start. I don't think that's an unfair ass Can we have a guy

Did I lad that I've been wanting to Drake mad to start since I was.

Before they had Drake may I was the one saying, can they at least sign a couple guys in frequency so they have a base level. Look, I'm coming back to you on this. I said last week. When you have an offensive line of Venerian Lowe City so David Andrews, Mike and Wnhu, Kaden Wallace, that's when.

Because that's your best five.

Two of those guys are out long term. Now at this point, since I said that, I'm willing to go to Vederian Lowe, Michael Jordan, Nick Leverett.

I don't, I don't even know.

Just get can we start the same line for two weeks in a row before Drake May takes over.

That's I imagine then to go out there in the first game that you're covered at home, or that you're favored at home against a third string quarterback, and we're gonna we're not gonna take this opportunity to play Tyler Huntley. Drake May is not facing Tyler. Understand the point. The point is is that they should be able to win this football game, right.

But I think the opponent is irrelevant and I would rather Drake May. I think it's better for them that Drake May looks good in a loss than plays Portland get the crap beat out of him and a win.

I just we're never gonna agree on this, So I'm just gonna move on because I just, I, for the life of me, I understand that you're not one of these people that wants to sit him forever. I get that.

I literally keep lowering the standards, but it's just has to be some standard, No.

I hear you. I just I really start to get I was already concerned about it last week. Yeah, and just for the I'm not doing a victory lap. I already saw some of the stuff that what Jacob were said on film against the Jets, and I came in here and I said against the Jets that he's stunk. And then last week and now all of a sudden he plays bad against the forty nine ers, and I'll thank you. Welcome to the party. He's been here for three weeks.

And I don't disagree with you. I just and I've said this since April. Jacoby Brissette's level of play should be independent from Drake May's.

T Tell that to Jalen Pulkin Pop Douglas.

If you're a good coach, you figure out a way to sell it this old player's coach, right, you gotta find.

Way what happens. In my opinion, Uh, it's very easy for Elliott Wolf to look at it this way. Yeah, and he's probably right like you guys are probably right to be patient, and Elliot Wolf is probably looking at it this way. It's very different on the head coach level down because those are the guys that are in the trenches day in and day out of the season and they have to tell these guys, hey, we're gonna get on a fight to London in a couple of

This is why I if I was Elliot Wolf, I would have done more in the offseason.

Two. It's very easy to prepare for this from the perch in the GM chair to look down and say packerway, be patient. You know he's not ready, YadA, YadA, YadA. When the team and the fifty three guys on the in the locker room are getting there. But but again.

This is where I go back to. I would have signed an actual left tackle. I would have added more depth on the offense. We can't fair enough, but you know what we need. I guess my point is, sorry, this is the bed you made, you lay in it. Your plan was to be patient, and this was the offense you brought to a plan to be patient, you don't get to you don't get to change course. Now stick to your plan.

Do you know what we need?

Light?

We need a bud Light because it's easy to drink, it's easy to enjoy. Bud Light, the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots. Let's take some of these phone calls and then we'll get back to three up, three down, because we just went on for longer than plans.

So your quote got picked up on Twitter. By the way, good about the locker room?

Oh not great? Okay, I'll deal with you know, I'll deal with that later. Dylan is in Florida. What's up, Dylan? Dylan? Sorry, I left John hold for a while. Call back in, Dylan and we'll get you on. I'm assuming Patty is still here. What's up, Patty? I know Patty's still here. Do we speak to Patty. Patty, oh morel that one hurts. That one hurts, all right, He'll probably call back in Let's try one last time, Sean and Vancouver. What's up, Sean.

Otob you?

Oh goodness, thank you.

Hey, Evan.

I'm sorry I missed you in San Francisco. Buto, what a beautiful weekend despite the loss. Next time, maybe in Miami. I'll be down for that game at the end next month, so I hope to see you then go onto a business in hand. It's been four months. This is the game that I circled for Drake made to start. So Evan, I'm right with you, very disappointed that's not going to happen. I was predicting a win. I was just like the most confident I've been in a long time that the

I don't know, but otherwise.

He really should be in there for defense. You know, they actually had discipline in that Cincinnati game. In the first game they had the discipline, and I know they're missing Bentley and that's a big part of it. And Dougar was gone, so I don't know who's going to have the green dot. But they can have the discipline again. They can do it, they can fix it. It's the Patriots way, you know, do your job. I don't think it's selfish to say that you're trying to do someone

Sorry, but Evan does it all the time.

It happens.

Yeah, So you just got to just focus on do your job and just trust that the other players would do their job. And that's the Patriot's way, and that's what they have to do moving forward. All right, I'll let you guys talk about that.

Thanks. Thanks Sean. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Like this defense has has lost the do your job mentality. Now part of me wants to come to the defense of some of the guys that are playing out on the edge from some of the conversations I've had this week with them, because I do think there is an element that they're being coached a little bit differently, Like I think they're being asked to do things a little bit differently than they would in the past now.

Clearly because they've been doing this and they're still on the field. So the coaches don't have a problem no.

Other no coaches ever telling the somebody to rush and let the quarterback out of the pocket. Like that's not in a playbook anywhere in football, from high school to college to the NFL. No, no scheme is designed to invite the quarterback to get out of the pocket, right That's not how it works. But at the same time, they are, i think, are trying to be more aggressive. They're trying to get up the field more and make

Sorry, I was working, well, I am working, and I hit the and button on my phone on accident. So good, nothing you guys did, all right, So, Alex, I'm one Patriots fan that I just want to see the kids play because I look at my eyeball tests and looking at the numbers, they're averaging under one hundred and thirteen yards pass in per game. Yeah, and I mean, you're

Yeah, no, no, not you, No, I know.

That's corrected him. I think I texted you and asked if you were watching, You're like, why would I be doing that?

Well, I asked you why I would be doing that because I was in San Francis for the first time.

I was sightseeing. That's fair. No, that they were both awesome games, Patty and I. By the way, I think the officials got the call right. They should have never called it a touchdown on the field.

But awesome, awesome slate.

This weekend, this past weekend, great college football.

Yes, sir, all right, that's all I got.

Guys, Thanks Patty, thanks for the call. Yeah I did. Actually we did want to watch that game. Yeah, we just didn't get back to it. Fair aunt time.

Did you see what happened?

You've seen the replace since as well. Yeah.

On uh, he says something about Drake Man. I don't remember what I Oh, no, it's not really I thought he was gonna say something that he didn't. Never mind, Okay, all right, can I I'll just say it, because now I gave the tease. Can I give you a Drake May take that. I think people are gonna hate, but I actually I stand by this. Yeah, because everybody's doing

I don't know what.

Did you want Bailey's happy to purposely throw picks? Did you want Chad Ryland to purposely missed the field goal?

And so like Chad Ryland did miss the field goal against the Giants that got us Drake Man.

Yeah, so I don't know. I don't understand. I hate that they won. How many games they won. Tanking happens from the GM up. He can't fault players for that. Yeah, it's not a real You can be annoyed, but it's not like a realistic take to expect it. But let's even say that the Patriots drafted second took Jane Daniels. I still think they would have taken Drake May. But let's say they took jayde Daniels second, and the Commanders took.

Drake May third.

I think right now we would be in the same spot, and Drake May would be lighting it up in Washington and we would be wondering why they're not playing jayde Daniels. I think this is an organization thing. I think it's an Elliot Wolf, Alex man Pelt Packer Way thing, not a Drake May thing. That's not to say Drake May will be good, but if he was in Washington, he

They've gotten better. They've gotten better.

He would wear ranked poorly coming into the Okay, he would have Terry McLaurin. Yes, like Jerry Rice, Terry mclaurin's a good player, come on, good right, he's better than anybody.

I heard. It is Jerry Rice who said that. Just it just seems like we're like, Terry mccorin is a really good player. Yeah, but is he the like if this Patriots team had Terry McLaurin, you'd feel comfortable with Drake May playing.

More, not outright, but more. But but it's not even about comfort. It's about no, but this is my point. Yeah, it's about it's about the production, not so much like like the process of putting him in. Well, if they had just you know, if they just lost the game and draft j Daniels or if they're just trying to trade up, I think Jane Daniels would be sitting here. I think this is a a front office philosophy thing, not a Drake May versus jayde.

And Daniels thing.

It's a it's a uh, why am I blanking on the head coach?

There a twenty eighty three guy dan Quinn.

It's a dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, Adam Peters, Peters thing versus Elliott wolf Drawdo, Alex Van Pelt. I think the quarterbacks, if you switch them, both teams would still be approaching it the same way.

So really quickly. Then I do want to move on some other stuff. But what what makes me a little bit irked about the Washington situation is not you know that I'm cool with Drake.

May he wanted Cliff Kingsbury.

They not only could, but Adam Peters would have been so they could have had defensive minded head coach Girodd Mayo, Adam Peters Cliff Kingsbury and they could have basically had the same set.

So I'll say this, if they had hired Cliff Kingsbury and Adam Peters instead of Elliott Wolf and Alex Van Pelt, Yeah, and then you know it all played out the same. I think Drake may would be playing right now, ye, all other things the same. I'm curious if you agree, but like it's not a we can debate. D Do you think it's a philosophy it's a philosophical thing.

I don't.

Drake may May be there starting right now and be having a ton of success, and Jane Daniels would be here on the bench and we'd be sitting here saying why aren't they playing Jayde Daniels. I'd probably be digging in harder honestly for them not to play him, because durability was one of his major questions coming out. But I just I had that thought this week that it's not, oh well, they couldn't get Drake May ready and washing and got Jane Daniels ready.

It's not an ability to do it. It's a willingness to do it well. And I I know last week, I I probably contradict myself a little bit with this, but it does. It's worth noting that Jade and Daniels made like sixty career starts in college.

Yeah, Jane Daniels also more experienced, he was more.

Pro ready, like he obviously totally different athletes, totally different ability, but like he was more Mac jonesy in that sense, right where like he was known coming into the draft like this guy can play for you right away, right like that that that's a big difference between Drake may And and Jade and Daniels. All right, let's do three up,

I actually managed to forget if I did three year.

We talked about this last night, and I actually did three seconds of show prep. But when we're texting about it, all right, so work for the show. I'll just start we don't. This is off the cuff. It's the best part. Number one Jabriel Peppers, Number one up to May Jabriel Peppers. Uh comes out of the gate with that big stick on Deebo Samuel. He came to play. He came with authority.

Uh.

The interception was phenomenal. Like I'm not even exaggerating, Like that's like an Ed Reid esque interception. He has George Kittle in coverage on the play. In the lower part of the of the coverage, he sees brock Perdy progress off of George Kittle and onto the deep over and he drops off of his assignment and freelance is essentially in a good way this time and drops underneath the route and goes in high points the ball and picks it off adjustment. Yeah, that's an Ed Reid type of

I've been saying he he he might be one of the most underrated players in the league. Do you remember my kind of ridiculous take when they signed him, No, that if they were going to build a core from here. He could be this team's Rodney Harrison.

Yeah, he's. He's I don't know if he's as good as Rodney was. Maybe we're nostalgic to Rodney. I mean, like just overall impact. Yeah, he's. He's fantast hone setter, you know, leader from the front, things like that. Yeah, he was really good. Okay, what do you got, jaln Polk.

Yeah, it's it's tough because he's not he's not getting the ball, getting the ball. But I wonder why when you watch what he oh yeah, and when Drake may is on his back in two point one seconds because of the pass rush, a whole lot of difference.

That's maybe Bob. At the time he gets hit, you can't by.

The time it actually takes the snap to get back you take. I don't know if you remember this from the summer. One of the problems nick LeVert he didn't snap the ball fast.

Oh my goodness.

So by the time the ball gets back to take he got opened a few times. I think, because this year is is much about development as it his results. The deep ball that was ruled in complete realistically off the hand that should be an interception the fact that he just got to that ball to not allow the defender to make a play on it. Forget that close, getting that close to making it making it a catch was impressive, and he made a couple other contested catches too.

So I'm swear I'm not doing this with Jalen Pulk to make my point about Drake May, but it's gonna kind of do that too. So he's the type of guy that you need to throw the ball to him. You can't lead him into throws because he doesn't have that kind of vertical speed. He doesn't have that second gear to run underneath and over the shoulder or something like. He's not Tyreek Hill, right, You're not gonna throw it to a spot fifty yards down the field and expect

So I have a couple more that I knew you wouldn't cover. Yep, Christian Ellis, that's fair.

Was so good yea.

In this game he was made a couple of big tackles on special teams, not just the one reforced and recovered the fumble, by the way, that's a high level play. Yeah, there's a punt late in the game when the Patriot I mean, they weren't in it, but they're still in theory in it. And the last two weeks I've had special teams punt coverages it down because they've allowed these big returns. They actually get beat initially, and Christian Ellis from behind is able to track down the returner and

I'm ready to I wrote it in after further review, I Taki might put a wrench in that, Yeah, because they're similar players. But Ellis in like the third down pass package, like obvious third down role you were talking about earlier, like whether he's spying, whether he's playing low hole,

Even off the field. It allows you to put back on the ed and it allows you to play him in position.

Maybe Kean bumps inside. Yeah, exactly.

So Christian ELL's a really good game on special teams and to the point where it's not like, oh, you played well on special teams, You've earned your role.

Something like that.

His defense snaps Ford, but also the raw skill he showed translates well to what they need.

Ye all right? Do the kickers?

Uh?

Well, Joey sly So in instead of franchise record, he does not only.

That, the Pro Football Rep Friends database on this only goes back to nineteen ninety four.

But what I just love how you know that? Well because I looked it up. Yeah, he did your drop good. He's the only the fourth.

Kicker since nineteen ninety four to hit a fifty plus yard field goal in a sixty plus yard field goal in the same game.

Okay, And I'm trying to find the Brandon Aubrey one of them probably No, it's uh, Justin Tucker. Justin Tucker was the last one to do it in twenty twenty two. Yeah, fifty five and sixty seven. You want to guess the other two? One of them is like, he was arguably the best kicker in the league for a little bit. Sebastian Jenakowski now more recent I feel like he has had a huge leg I ei the twenty twelve twenty twelve Keskowski, No, because he made the sixty two yard Yeah.

No, Greg zerline hit from fifteen sixty and then in two thousand and three, Martine gramatic Man from sixty and he's the only one who hit two sixties. Hit from sixty and sixty two. In two thousand and.

Three, Martin show slide of the list the worst injury I've ever seen celebrating. No, No, that's when he got hurt, right. That was his brother, Bill Grammatica.

Martin Grammatica had a long successful year by the way. Uh fun fact, the guy who replaced Bill Grammatica after that injury, yeah, Tim Duncan. Oh, not that Tim Duncan, but there was a kicker named Tim Duncan.

Uh.

No, Martin Grammatica is the brother. He was in the NFL for like twenty years.

I thought that Martin Grammatica did that too. No, it was Bill. It was his brother Bill. Okay, all right, let's uh let's do do you have any more ups?

Uh?

No?

Is it? Who's your number?

One?

Down? My I'm glad you. I'm glad you prepared this week.

But yeah, my number one down was I don't really put him in order, just kind of order.

I hang of him. I numb one down.

Skobert said it was his worst game of the year, and I feel like this this week he got in the way of the offense more than any other game.

Yeah, I had him on the list. I had number one. I the defensive coaching staff. We don't have to belabor the point I've already been over my Missilloqually on that. I just thought they got out coached and did not do a very good job of putting players in positions

We've talked about he's not an off ball linebackern that his first year here. He's an edge player and they got to get him back there.

Okay, who's your next one?

Romanre Stevenson somehow we haven't talked about yet.

Yeah. Four fumbles in four games. Yeah, I can't have it.

You just especially a week after. It is a point of emphasis in practice. You know this is coming up. He fumbled early in the game, and it's not like somebody on the Niners made this unbelievable play to knock the ball. Ou see, it's just outside his frame as he hits the line of scrimmage. You can't do that. So now the coaching staff's in this really tough position where he's still one of your two best playmakers on offense and the coaching staff doesn't seem particularly interested.

In involving to Mario Douglas.

So he's your essentially best playmaker, but as Gerardmeo said after the game, they can't afford to turn the ball over.

Can't be So what he say, you can't be about job Security's bass security? Well he said that don't.

Right, but he also said that, yeah, all right, so essentially that but yeah, what are you gonna do? You want to be this run heavy offense? He is your best playmaker, Yeah, but he continues to fumble the ball and at a certain point you can't have that. So I'm god, I don't have to make the decision. I know. Trod Mayo said this week Antonio Gibson might start, and I get that, but like, what's the dis I don't care about the starting what's the distribution of rep's gonna be?

And if they limit his carries, what's the ceiling for the offense? So you're one hundred percent right on your bremonder being on the downs take. I'm glad you did see. We know each other well enough that I didn't put him because I actually thought would my thing with though with it is that I don't think Antonio Gibson's a volume back. He's not. So if all of a sudden

Well, but what do you do with Stevenson fumbles again, It's it's not a good problem. But so what I would do, I'd elevate Kevin Harris for this game, okay, and I would get and Tomichael Hasty was fine running the ball last week actually, and I.

Just want to it's it's a detriment to Gibson to all of a sudden put him in a high volume see, and I.

Think the SAME's about I think the same about Hasty. Yeah, that's why I'd elevate Kevin Harris and I would get not you still have to play Stevenson some but it's this guy's right here, he's gonna play. This guy can be a volume back, like I I would have Kevin Harris as party game plan this week.

That's fair enough. Antonio Gibson, I am still finding myself and I feel like I've written this every single week in my game review. He is one of your most explosive players on offense. I know it happened in garbage time, but he hits a fifty yarder on a little check down coming over the middle of to feel a little crosser mesh traffic. You know, they run mesh and then they sneak the running back out of the backfield and it's a blown coverage and he goes for fifty yards.

Or playing another game, right, just as kind of more into the float of things here and give you something else because Layde Robinson, especially in pass pro, like he's not there yet.

He's just not there.

And I think you have to rely on City So. And we saw Michael Jordan participating in practice, which is a good sign. He's been their sneaky best guard.

Yeah, and we'll go from there.

And I'll say this because I've got a ton of questions about Cold Strange. Yeah, you might need Cold Strange to come back as a center, not a guard. So Cole Strange, I know, Mark Daniels put it out there. I think right before we started to record, Cold Strange is gonna is on target to play this season. But I didn't read marks floor not soon. But that does

So the initial reporting was a couple of months.

Yeah, so like seven eight weeks he has here, Mark Daniels, mass live, Cole Strange contractor return of the Patriots this season, although timelines depending on his recovery. Yeah, just says later. It just keeps saying later.

This season, So that to me is at least an other month. Yeah. I've talked to Cole a little bit in the locker room and the impression that I've gotten from him is that he's not really even thinking about that right now. Right He's more thinking about getting healthy. So he's not clear.

Daniels has he's not cleared to practice, and obviously that means return from pup.

But I also wonder if that means like not even get on a field and start the ramps. Yeah, what I thought was interesting from what Kendrick Bourne said today to us, and I wanted to end this show. I know, we haven't really talked a ton of Dolphins. I'm I don't know how much it really matters.

Well, I do want to talk Kendrick Bourne.

I want to talk about like five minutes, ten to ten minutes about the Dolphins.

You know, I'm always down to talk Kendrick Bourne.

So with Bourne, what I thought was interesting is he said that he was physically cleared by the start of the season, but he almost treated the first four weeks as his training camp to get himself in shape to play.

Published was the word he kept choosing to polish his routes.

Yeah, yeah, things like that. So I you gotta think about the ramp up as much as you have to think about the health of the player. So if cold Strange is ready to go physically, he gets cleared medically by the doctors, let's say by the end of October, then he's probably gonna need a couple of weeks to get ramped back up.

And just to be clear, some people may wonder, well, isn't that what the three weeks is for when you activate the guy. Some teams do it like that and just ramp them up over the course of practice. But then if you have a setback, you're out of luck. He's not coming back. Versus if you just do a solo ramp up that's not part of practice, and then you do it in essentially two stages, and then he comes back to practice and ramps up in that way, you just you have more control over the timeline.

Yeah, so before I see you guys on the phones and we'll take your calls here, I promise. But I want to talk about some of the other, you know, new injury news that's been with the team because it is important. So let's start with David Andrews at a third now. Oh right, sorry, what was your third? Were talked about it, Josh and Jay?

Okay, just the inability to hold the edge, not just not just in the past game in the run game is concerning right now.

Yeah, totally fair. All right, David Andrews. This one's a tough one for me because you know, I love David Andrews. He's been a really an ally covering this team, working for the team. He's been really good to me. I have nothing bad to say about David Andrews, the person David Andrews. At this point, it feels like his play on the field has been compromised by his body starting to give out on him a little bit. And I'm not saying that, oh, it's not surprising that he's hurt

I think maybe not physically, mentally, you're losing a ton. Yes, and again, Nick Leverage is not experienced center. Yeah, I know he's played a little bit in the NFL, but one and this is something we'll watch this week, and maybe he's gotten better at I remember watching noticing the summer the ball doesn't come back with a ton of velocity in the shotgun.

And that matters.

Yeah, right, And then on top of that, I actually thought he was a decent He's decent for most of the summer, but he had a couple of bad snaps late there, and those can't come back. I'm not comfortable saying that that the drop off is gonna be minimal. Maybe it was on Sunday. I think they got lucky. I don't think that's something you can count on if I were them. I and I know they worked out.

Not Jesse Davis. I thought they worked out another center, at least.

Sound one of the practice squad car yet, but I get another, I get another veteran center in here, and I mean Rod Nick Leverty's the starter he's been with the team. But we'll see with Brian Hudson. You know, Levert's on the injury report too. He can get real ugly, real fast at center. I'm not comfortable saying that David Andrews is going to be a minimal absence. Is there a chance that could happen.

Yes, I'm not confident. I'm not saying he's going to be a minimal absence either. I just don't think it's going to be a physical decline. It's more gonna be unless you want to count snapping. I guess that's a physical app.

I think that's especially for with an offensive line where every tenth of a second matters.

We'll have to I didn't see his snaps being an issue on Sunday, but maybe it was one game that he.

That's also the kind of thing that like, I don't know how much you look at this, and I didn't even I looked a little bit. The speed of the snap. I thought of it honestly today a practice, Yeah.

I I if it was egregious, I would have noticed. It's not something that I necessarily noticed, which I feel like is a good thing, right, right, He there's a possibility. I'm just going to allow for the possibility that they kind of rammed him up at center starting like mid August, but he's had probably two months now.

But that's what's concerning, is he was better earlier on when they start ramping HM up, and then late in the summer it became an issue.

Well, maybe he's gotten better at snapping. Okay, you know, like in this timeframe, right, And let's also remember that David Andrews has always was kind of being managed. Like there's probably a lot of first team reps for Nick let a lot of first team Yeah, so maybe he's just gotten better at it. Like it's not no offense, but it's not like this incredibly hard thing. It's just a skill that you have to learn how to do.

Well, the other thing, I mean, we were calling for them to do more like scheme touch stuff, yeah with Pop Douglas, which again they just don't see interested in doing. Kender Burns another guy you can do scheme touch with and you can run on some Mendo rounds and some jet passes and things like that, and he's really good at the ball in his hand. Right, maybe it opens up that part of the playbook a little bit more real quick kind of unrelated.

But did you did I get quote tweeted again?

No? Did you see Jason Kelsey's rant about analytics? This is my viewpoint on stats. Stats are numbers. What I care about is the football.

Where does it go?

Does it go to the end zone? Do we get points? Points are also numbers, but points determined games and wins and losses. Stats are numbers. Numbers are nerds. Nerds are losers. Therefore stats are losers. Thank you, Jason Kelsey.

Okay, that's coming from a future Hall of Fame center you right, so he probably knows a thing or twill now you no offense or not, Jason Kelsey. So the fact that you are not on the nerd side of this is shocking. But his whole point is that stuff's all irrelevant.

Real ballp the top, Ball up top, get to the end zone.

Okay, here's the thing, cave Man, Ball up top, get to the ends? Have you not seen ball up top? My new Like, here's the thing. I was having a conversation with somebody the other day about this.

Yeah.

He asked me, what are you seeing on the defense? Right? I said, well, I can tell you what I'm seeing, but I'm not a coach, I'm not a player. I don't know it like you guys do. And he was like, well, tell me what you're seeing and I said, well, statistically, and he said, oh, you're going stats on me. And I was like yeah, and I was like, yeah, statistically, you guys think and Cover two. Okay, you guys are playing Cover two. You're getting freaking shredded. Stop playing Cover two.

Instead, he even says points or points are numbers they determined games like points, yards whatever. I'm talking about the acronyms. When you start putting expected in there, things like that like hate EPA, you hate it, show me tangibly.

What it is.

Fine if you can't formulate, or it's just pulling numbers out of thin air because it's expected this, or or you know when you stumers use numbers, are nerds?

Nerds? Loss? You said that you wanted to bring up points per game with the defense, you knew in context that that might not be inaccurate. So what did I do?

I went and found points per drive. That's another tangible number.

E p A is context. E p A bakes in down in distance, score of the game situation. Is that kind of formula for e p A? Yes?

Is it public?

Yes?

But no?

Okay, so there, so I don't know because I don't formally is it is?

But do you know how to code?

That's not really? No, that doesn't count yards per drive, yards per attempt or completions against cover two. That is a tangible Okay.

Okay, Well, good thing that it's supported my argument no matter what number we use, because they're bad in all of it.

So stats are numbers I'm not tattooed guy, but I'm saying if I were, Stats are numbers. Numbers are nerds. Nerds are losers.

Stats are losers.

What a great quote by Jason Kelsey. Let's get back I think of the Kelsey Brothers guy, but what a quote. Let's get back to the TPX hotline. It is Steve in New York.

What's up? Steve? Stay there? All right? We didn't even leave Steve on hold for that long. Ted is in Portland? What's up? Ted?

Hey, what's up? Guys? Had a quick question that is hypothetical. But if Mayo, you know, I know you said we're starting Jacoby, why wouldn't you just say were starting Jacoby and then starkrek may and basically catch everyone off.

God.

I also wanted to ask Adam would you get him? And then also I wanted to add a suggestion. I know you guys have been talking about having a whiteboard. It would be awesome. We'd love to see it. I'm sure there's plenty of other people would love to see it. It also be a great way to promote the pods through YouTube short clips.

Yeah, Ted, it's a great point. We do, we do. We did talk about the whiteboard, Well, we'll work on that. I think it would be a useful tool. We're gonna get one. I love that. Uh On DeVante Adams. I'm glad he brought this up because we probably should get addressed this on the show. You know me, I am a shiny new toy. I take de bait every time. I want the wide receiver. I love wide receivers. I'll take all the wide receivers for once in my life. I'm actually gonna say that I don't think this one

We're born on literally the same day as Jacoby verses.

I am, we have the same exact birthday. Where what's DeVante? Like, what's the outlook with Devonte Adams? Like, yes, you could make the argument that he could help Drake may in his first full year as a starter next year, but like now we're talking about a thirty two year old receiver. Like, I don't see how that it's not Stefan Diggs with Buffalo.

Yeah, right to me, So I'm with you, Like, he's not coming here, Yeah, And I know there's a clip going around of him being very complimentary of Robert Craft and Gerrod Mayo.

Yeah, yeah, great, maybe.

He comes here to coach one day. Like the whole reason he wants out is the quarterback position. There he has He's played with six quarterbacks in two years. Yeah, a list that includes Jarrett Stidham, Jimmy Garoppolo, and Brian Hoyertman.

Still put some numbers.

It's still put a thousand yards last year, hundred catches.

Hud A three I think he's not coming here.

Yeah, I do think hypothetically if he were to, Yeah, he can be your bridge to Stefan Diggs or that way. Like because you got to take tackle in the first round. I think we both agree on that. So you're not getting that immediate impact wide receiver in the draft. But maybe there's a guy you really like who's a year away. Well, okay, we're gonna take him in the second round. But we have DeVante Adams in the meantime, so we still have this player and Drake Macon can really get going next year.

You win, which is not hard with wide receivers. It's it's not hard to convince me to trade for a wide receiver. I just I just want I don't think it's a good marriage.

Like, it's not it doesn't matter because he's not coming here right whatever they want, He's trying to get away from quarterback instability.

What I would say, though, if I'm Elliot Wolf, because you have to make the call, if you're the page, they should one make the call. Do I put the Matthew judea On third round pick on the table.

So let me ask you this, and to anybody listening, ask yourself this, because I had this conversation with somebody the other day to say, third round pick, that's ridiculous. If I had brought up in July, you can trade Matthew jude On for DeVante Adams. Yeah, I think it would have been yess across the board. Yeah, this is just doing that with this is essentially just making that a three team trade. You know me, I am an FM picks kind of guy. Yeah, especially.

You're not trading your first round pick this year. I'll even allow for the fact that you're not trading your second round pick because until April, because we're talking not until March. We're talking about that being like the third and the thirty fifth overall pick in the draft. Those are two picks that should be legitimate pillar players this team. You're not trading it until you know exactly what pick

In ten, right, You're you're I'd say a lot longer than a lot longer odds than that. But you know, if you can get two years of DeVante Adams, even if he's eighty percent of the player he's been, that's eighty catches eight hundred yards for a third round pick when you have two of them.

Yeah, yeah, all right, let's talk a little like I do want to ask, he said, He asked one other thing. Oh it's Adams. Oh it's something about Drake Mayo.

Oh why don't you just say you're starting Jakober set then say then start Drake made it catch the team off guard. I think the whole keeping the starting quarterback a secret thing is one of the most overblown concepts in football. The offense is the offense. You're gonna have to defend the same concepts. It's just to what level they can be executed. But like, if the guy's executing at a high level, like you should be prepared to

Yeah. Uh, just one quick thing, because I I'm not afraid to be critical of Mayo. I was critical of Mayo for the whole first hour of the show, But on Sunday I saw a lot of this, and I guess it's probably just my timeline and the cesspool that is the X Machine every once in a while. But Mayo told Scott Zolac on the pregame show on your station, like twenty minutes before the game that they were gonna run a lot of short passes, quick game, get the ball out. Why would you tell the other team that

It's just also just not how with Brandon Staley. Yeah, maybe you got to tell him a few times before he gets it, Brent Day.

It's just not how it works. Yeah, it's not tell you tell a broadcaster or twenty minutes before the game. You're not giving away any state secrets. You're not giving away which, by the way, again they've already said earlier in the week. Yeah quickly on the Dolphins, Yeah, uh, just my quick dolphins R. I know the Dolphins are right now in disarray. I know you hated my take that I gave earlier in the show about Drake May playing in this game.

Well, it was him playing in the game and then benching him again.

I didn't say that they had to bench him again. I said that they could still bench him. I don't. We don't need to get into it again. My one fear about this game from a Patriot perspective, I have to but on offense, the Dolphins offense. I watched their film against Tennessee with with scoop right, Scoop Hunley, Scoop poop.

I think it's snoop.

I think it's Scoop, Snoop, Scoop. We're terrible.

It's snoop, Tyler Huntley, It's Snoop. I just looked it up and Snoop Snoop Huntley. Maybe Scoop would be a terrible name for quarterback, maybe like a linebacker.

I know, I think it's a terrible name either.

Didn't the Patriots that was Scooby.

They had Scooby right, Scooby right, So you I think like UFL also Snoop Huntley, SFL all start and champion. So my my one fear about this game coming off a game where you give up five explosive plays to the San Francisco forty nine ers, this is obviously one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL. I get they don't have their quarterback. I get that they have Snoop Huntley now.

A Bowl or Snoop Puntley's in respect on his Okay, he was seventeenth, he was there with Mac John.

Snoop Puntley is that quarterback? Not to U I get all that kind of stuff. But you watch their film against Tennessee, and if I was DeMarcus coming into Rod Mayo and Comington said this this morning, I'll give him credit. I think he probably did do this. Just put a cut up of all the times that Tyreek Kill has opened down the field in that game, you know, just verticals. You know, they play cover three. He just runs right

Well.

McDaniel's so brilliant, make it work. How many bad quarter backs as Kyle Shanahan.

Won with to an extent, I just love that.

That just backdoored you well, I said, I said, to an extent, Kyle Shanahan's never been this bad. No, and Shanahan's better than me. You have knockoff Shanahan essentially, so.

To me, Yeah, the big.

Plays scare me because they only need to hit one of them probably to win this game.

And I was saying this to Uh.

I was talking about what we were walking out of practice. Yeah, there's a there's gonna be turnovers in this game. Yeah, defensive points. If a defense scores a touchdown, the team probably wins this game. If not, we won't see a tie. Like I I, it's gonna be low scoring, zero zero leather helmets. It's gonna be low scoring. There's I would there's gonna be a very very thin margin for error. And I know that kind of sounds weird because it's usually like, no, you have a thin margin forrer when

Yeah, so a little bit, I agree with you that they this should be the Patriots should be forcing them to march. You have to be at death by a thousand paper cuts if you're gonna beat us, snap the ball a bunch, march the field. That means playing discipline football. Yeah. They Miami also motions more than any other team in the league. They love to run motion at the snap. They run that at the second highest rate. They run all pure motion across the board at the highest rate

Do you put John Jones on Tyreek Hill and man and you're better with terminology and I always forget what he's called, but you put John Jones shadow man on Tyreek Hill, and everybody plays zone around that. So you make sure Hill's accounted for with the guy that's history had a lot of success against him, and then everybody else is just make sure we have the rest of the field covered.

So against Kansas City in the ANFC Championship game all those years ago in twenty eight team the call that they ran with Tyreek Kill dimod magic cover zero. Now it's not pure cover zero. They what they would have is they would have Devin mccordy would cloud to Tyree Kill's side, so he would like be like the over the top player, the double team on Tyreek' side. You don't want to bracket or cone Tyreek because he's just

Because now you're in man and you have to pass off.

I'm saying just like so, they they've also played cloud right, so three cloud would be like you'd have a defender on the line of scrimmage. Usually they would do it with Jabriel Peppers and they would just have Jabriel Peppers chuck the crap out of them at the line of scrimmage, and then he would let him go after he released, and then Gonzo would pick him up like eight to ten yards off the line of scrimmage, but he would already have been slowed by the jam at the line.

But you can't do that.

He's in motion though, So that's the problem with the motions. So that's why I feel like if they just let him come out whichever side he's gonna come out of, and then just catch him down the field, you know, by playing off coverage with him, like if you're if snow, Puntley's gonna beat you throwing like little crossers and slants and stuff like that because you're playing off Like that's what Tua would do, right, But I don't really trust new Puntley.

To do making keep making through I get. I don't know, just almost like spying Tyreek Hill.

Yeah, I would do something like that. Yeah, offensively. Anthony Weaver is a Raven's disciple McDonald guy with the Baltimore Ravens. They can pressure now. They lost Jalen Phillips, but they have Zach Steeler, who's like a really underrated play on their interior, really good player. It doesn't get a ton of National pub Kalais Campbell obviously is not a Miami Dolphin. He's still doing his thing. And Emmanuel Agba is like a really solid, well rounded football player. He's not a

They literally just signed Tyas Bowser, okay, so they know the guy that can get after the quarterback.

I don't know what the Patriots are going to do to get teams out of the blueprint that they're currently in. They're facing the number one rate in the league of single high defensive structure like cover one, cover three, post safety, seven to eight guys in the box, blitz a ton, pressure a ton, man coverage a ton like. I don't know how you get teams out of that with their

Oh, here we go.

Yeah, so it's a digital whiteboard, so we could probably do it right here on the tablet, and he said that he is a big fan of the show and is willing to give us a free account to make this happen.

We may need to put this now. The problem is a lot of people also just listen audibly.

Yes, so we yes, we're serving the the YouTube body and so no, you would just have to be able to describe what's going on as you do. Maybe I could do a little play by play, or I would all you're right, and you'd have to remind me to say sorry to the listening on it, to pull a Colin Coward and say, I know only the people watching on TV can see this graphic, but here's this graphic that I made.

So maybe we need to get that hooked up to the YouTube or could we just project it behind us.

Yeah, well we'll figure it out.

Okay, But we have another email about like Kelvin Banks or something.

Oh, yeah, of course you want to get to that. I'll let you have this one the email are asked, and sorry, I'll I can't find out. I'll find out when you're talking to get the emailer's name. But he asked that he's seeing a lot of mock drafts that are flipping the two of them now, and well, Calvin Banks has moved ahead of Will Campbell.

Yeah, so a couple of reasons for that. I think there is concern about arm length. Arm length with Will Campbell. Jim Naggy had it at thirty two and seven eighths, which would be just under the threshold.

Now you may not care.

Who is the guy. The threshold was thirty four and then he was at thirty three and they were just like, nope, he's a good tackle for Shawn all right, so maybe he resets the threshold again. The other thing is Will Campbell is five penalties in five games. Four of them are false starts. Not all of those are on the road. And look, they've both been very good. I'd be happy with either, but when it is that narrow, you're going to look at things like penalties, and Calvin Banks has

So this is Nicholas asked this question. I haven't studied these guys. This is gonna happen though, because last year it was around November that I threw on the first Drake May tape. I think I was in Denver and was probably texting you like, can we draft this guy now? Please? And I think it was around November that I threw on the first Drake May tape. So it's coming. It's coming, folks, I'm sure I will. I haven't watched them closely enough yet to have a take on, like which one I

We also see the penalties on tape.

To the arm length thing, it is a factor. It will matter. Combine is gonna be big. You know, I'm gonna be there with the tape measure.

If he's at thirty two and seven, Ace, does he like have two friends pull on him before he goes to the measurement so can find another quarter inch?

So Rashaun Slater for the Chargers, Uh, he has exactly thirty three inch arms. Yeah, on the nose, he's fantastic. He's elite at left tackle. Yeah, So everybody has kind of redone their thought process there. This is gonna you're gonna hate this. It's right up your alley. The nerd side of things is trying to convince the football people that arm length is a myth, not a myth, but like doesn't matter as much. Like obviously, if a guy is thirty one inch charms, he's not gonna play tackle.

But so for for reference, Peter Skorronsky was thirty two and a quarter.

Right, So thirty two and seven eights versus thirty three or thirty three and a half. The nerds would tell you, what are we talking about. We're talking about half an inch and now you're gonna move the guy inside the guard over half an inch of arm length, Like that's not gonna make a big differen And the football people and some of the football people in this organization that I've talked to, they they think it matters. Like I remember we were talking about Mike on Win who going

So all right, So, and it's one thing, like you said, thirty two even thirty two and a half, thirty two and seven, a's talking about a quarter inch how much g factor in So Slater's thirty three inch arms at six y four? Yep, Campbell's listed again we'll see at the combine. But Campbell's listed at sixty six, so he has more. The proportions are different. Does that make sense to get what I'm saying.

Yeah, and I actually on one who has a thirty four and three Acey he clears it. Yeah.

But just even if they are thirty three, even if Campbell comes into thirty three likes later, just thirty three at six six get viewed differently than thirty three at sixty four.

It's different because like when you talk about height, the two things that you look at with height are stride length is the biggest one. So like taller tackles, the advantage that they have is that they have they are their strides are longer, so when they kick out in their pas set, they get more depth and they get

Uh.

The other issue though, is the Nate Soldier thing where you're too tall, right, and then you can't leverage and then you can't get underneath guys and stuff like that. So I would say it's different buckets length. You know arm length, and I know you know this, but I'm just explaining it. Arm length is first contact, right first, meaningful contact is big. Not exposing your chest is big.

That's going to concern people about Campbell because he plays relatively straight up.

Now, it walks for him, at least the college level.

It works for me. He's in the SEC, but he plays more vertically than you probably coach a guy.

Yeah, so it'd be interesting to see what I see. You know, obviously, I think Calvin Banks is more of that prototypical build for a tackle like He's gonna check all the threshold and stuff. I just from technically, from a technical perspective, I remember what I saw of Will Campbell was really really impressive. Not all that different than Scornsky, you know, I know you brought him up earlier. It's

Thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, please rate and review us. Listener comments and ratings help keep us high on the podcast rankings so new listeners can find us. Be sure to check Patriots dot com for more news and more podcasts.