This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex Bar and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it? Joined as always buy our bart.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bar throw the ball against the Saints on third and short. Yes, I can't tell if you're making fun of me. Your extual's trying to follow. I have it on a table here. Do you want to see it?
No?
I just want to keep going. When when is when we need a whiteboard?
Right?
When teams throw the ball against the Saints on third and short, yes, they are converting a first down thirty three percent of the time, it's not good. When they run the ball against the Saints on third and short sixty two.
Of the time is good. It's funny because like I not that you don't you know. I'm not trying to say like you don't know any stats, but like usually it's me that's like, you know, bringing the spreadsheet to the podcast. Well, that's a very tangible stat. Yeah, that's true. We talked about this earlier. I got I got it as people could imagine. We got a bunch of stuff on our mind. But we were talking earlier about the Herald story that came today Alex with Andrew Callahan and
Doug Kyde. You know a lot of information there, some of it that I think we could have probably gleaned on our own, right, Like the Patriots have receivers that don't get open, and an offensive line that doesn't block anybody in a quarterback that's broken, Like I think we all like we all knew that, right. But one of the pieces of information we don't have to get into it, but I knew it would would grind your gears was they mentioned that the Patriots are are not at the forefront.
I don't know what the way to phrase this, And they said they didn't use analytics. So okay, they said they didn't use analytics.
First off, by the way that rant I had last week, Yeah, five third and shorts last week for the Patriots. They threw it four times and they ran that for cocta fake tush push on the other one. So so much for the numbers there on that.
That could have been a touchdown if Andre gets the ball. Yeah, well, you know a lot of things could have been. I'm just saying like in terms of like it was, they.
Definitely set it up well, they only ran like thirty Tousch pushes to set it up, which is start the season push.
But I here's the thing.
I don't think the and by the way they ran it when they were down thirty four nothing so great time to break that out. I don't think the NFL likes the term toush push, So that's why I'm so
committed to continue using it. Okay on the Herald story, so you know where I'm at with Like when I say analytics, the math, I'm talking about win probability models, win probability EPA, CPO, anything that has expected in it or theoretical or hypothetical they brought up in that article like next gen stats, which is player right player, a guy running twenty miles an hour, He's running twenty miles an hour. It's very tangrble. I have no problem with
that stuff should be used. That stuff's great. It's when you get into the hypothetical, theoretical expected that you just totally lose me and I think it's nonsense. But the next gen stat stuff they absolutely should be using. Every team should be using it. Yeah, I'm not saying it should be the be all, end all, but it's I mean.
It's informations a tool. It's a tool. It's a tool away putting it. So that wasn't at the top of my mind. I have a couple of things that are at the top of my mind. I didn't really know. Like usually I we you know, I try to set the table, have something like an opening take yeah back when you thought the show was going to start having ordered No, no, no, no, it does, it does. I doesn't have to. It's really okay. No, it has order. It has order. My OCD makes it.
So.
Uh, here's the thing. I I don't know where to go with this because if you and I'm telling saying you as in you, the people, you, the listeners. If you guys want to call into the show today and ask us big picture questions, who's the next head coach, who's the next GM, who's the next quarterback? I understand. I'm fine with that. We'll answer those questions. We'll talk about those things. If you want to listen to how do they fix this this season, I'm cool with that too.
We can talk about that. Also, how do they be you know, more competitive this year? If you want them to take for the number one overall pick. Fine, If you want them to try to piece this thing together to be better on the field this season and this week against the Raiders. Also, fine, we're gonna give you both. We're gonna give you both. But here's here's my my
big opening thing. And this is recent now, and uh, this kind of puts a little bit more directions in my mind because you know, those two things are so polar opposite. Like, let's talk about next year and in the future, let's talk about this week against the Raiders. It couldn't be more on either side of the of the thing. Jerry Judy. Jerry Judy is apparently, according to I think multiple reports, safe to say at this point,
available and likely to be moved before the NFL trade deadline. Yeah, so on some levels, I've gotten this this pushback on on on the X machine already. Why would you give up draft capital to help this team? Why would you let Bill Belichick make any more trades? Why would you make a trade that would make this team better and maybe put you in a spot where instead of the second overall picking the draft, you're picking fifteenth again, And like,
what's the point in that, right? And my whole thing with all of that is that Jerry Judy is somebody that we've both been clamoring for because of his skill set. He's a good player, good player, good route runner, gets open against man coverage, which this team can't do and is a dead last in the league right now in production against man coverage. This is one of the best man coverage beaters in the league.
Jerry Judy, he is his route running Is that we talk about a carrying trade, right, Yeah, what makes his ability to separate on a route on his own is his carrying trade. He is top fifteen in the league in that regard.
A technician, Yeah, he's a route running technician. He's got that PhD and route running and he's pretty good with the ball in his hands too after the catch. So my whole thing with Jerry Judy is in all likelihood acquiring Jerry Judy. Well, let me first say this. You're not trading your first round pick for Jerry Judy. You're not trading for first round pick for anybody else. You're not trading No one's trading a first round pick for Jerry Judy. You don't no, like the Chiefs. No, I
could see the Chiefs doing it. I don't they if they if they had a first round pick on the table for Jerry Judy, he wouldn't be a Bronco anymore. I'm saying, you get a few weeks, all right, yeah, fair enough. No one's trading a first round pick for Jerry Judy, so you're talking at most a second round pick, a Day two pick. So that with that out of the way, if you're the idea of to me of trading for Jerry Judy is a long term play, it's
long term. He's twenty four years old. He's twenty four, so you give him a contract extension, you trade a mid round pick for him, third round pick, second round pick, whatever it takes. And whether it's Mac Jones throwing him the football in twenty twenty four or it's Michael Pennocks throwing him the football in twenty twenty four, what difference does it make? What difference does it make? Either way? Jerry Judy is making the quarterback and the offense better, period,
full stop. He's making them better. That's all that matters. Whether it's Drake May, Michael Pennix, Mac Jones, Kyler Murray, whoever's throwing him the ball next year, it makes the team better. I would also mention that this drives me up a wall. People's attachment to non first round picks drives me up a wall, Alex, because it's we do this all this time on the show, because it's a good bit. Yeah, it's the family Guy Mystery box. Yep.
You can have Jerry Judy or you could draft a receiver in the third round and he might be as good as Jerry Judy. Right, So, I like, what is the infatuation with the draft picks. I'm not saying that the Rams do it right and the Rams say f the picks and they know there's a happy medium. There's a happy medium, and no one's sitting here today saying at the page. I would actually say that they shouldn't be trading their first or second round pick for Jerry
j So that's I wouldn't trade the second. Now maybe if it's.
Jerry Judy and a third for like a second, Yeah you know you're getting You're not.
They should not lose any top one hundred picks. I would trade a third for Jerry Judy. Might trade a third. But so here's the thing.
If we're going to really blow this up and talk about this down the road, like that, Yeah, the Patriots are not getting the first overall pick. That's just not gonna happen. I know a lot of people think it is.
It's not.
The Bears hold the trump card right now because they have their picky and the Panthers pick. So a lot of people are like, oh, they need a tank so they can get Caleb or whatever. It's not all about like tanking in the NFL. You don't need the second overall pick to get the second best player in the draft. And what I mean by that, or you don't need the second worst record, sorry, to get the second best player in the draft. It's as much about how you position yourself.
To move up the board.
Yeah, and that's why I like, I'm not as hesitant to part ways with the third round pick as like, oh, it's a third round pick, you're turning into a great player. But like, are you gonna if if they want to move into the top five take a quarterback and they're sitting there at like seven, is that the pick you're gonna need and now you don't have it?
But that also goes to another point. You can trade from future years.
You can trade from future years. But I would add as well so one, I would try to trade future your picks for Jerry Tuty. The other thing is this is where you talk about what are they gonna do with some of the guys on the team.
Now that aren't expiring contracts. Yeah, and if you.
Somebody did this a couple of years ago, like they traded for a guy that was on a long term deal, like I mean long term but with Judy multi year deal, and then they traded away another player on expiring contract and got like the equivalent of that pick back. So they essentially it wasn't that they didn't get a better player at a certain stances were a little different, but
like they extended the window. So if you were to trade like a third for Jerry Judy and then trade like one of the expiring players Hunter Henry Kendrick born Josh Uche and maybe like a fifth for a third, well now you you still have the same number of third round picks you always had, Like that would be can I yeah, I hear you, Yeah, I just I the real value in those picks to me, and this is a unique situation is to trade up if they
need a quarterback. Because you're not talking about trading up like like we usually do with them from like twenty to fifteen. We're talking about going from like seven to two or three, and that's where you do want to be able to position yourself a certain way, all right, So.
We're both I think in lockstep that we would offer a third round pick for Jerry Judy, and that's the most. That's the highest we'd go. I might do like a second for Jerry Judy in a third okay something. I don't know if the Broncos would do that. Okay, fair enough, So let's just let's just, you know, call it a third round pick. Sure, here's the Patriots last five third round picks. Oh you came ready? Are you ready for this? I just pulled this up. Wait can I hang on? Hang on?
Marte Maphu, yeah, uh, Marcus Jones yep. All right, So then I gotta go back to mac Jones draft class. That would be Ronnie Perkins yep.
Uh. Twenty twenty. They had two that year, right three?
Uh?
Uch, noj was second, Anthony Jennings yep. Oh, and the two tight ends yep. And keenan Assi OSSI.
And now we're am I eighteen nineteen nineteen, yeah, nineteen. So that's Nikhil Harry draft.
That would was chase one of its third I think it's chased one of its right, third round, right when Damien Harris was the fourth round.
No third round. Oh, they're both third round picks and Yadney could just okay. So to summarize, Marty Mapuh, Marcus Jones, Ronnie Perkins, Anthony Jennings, Devin Asiassi, Dalton Keene, Chase Winovich, Damien Harris, Yadney, kajuiced woof, And you guys are worried about giving up a third round pick for that collection.
Am I allowed to be worried about it in losing an asset to move up in the first round?
No, you're not. Why. I'll tell you why two reasons. One, there's a million different ways to split that at him, right, Like you can trade from future years. You can trade two fourths instead of a third, Like, there's a million different ways to cut up that pie. Two, who's the GM of the team, Because if it's the same guy that's sitting in the chair right now, you and I both know well and good that he ain't trading up
in the first round. Well, he's not taking a quarterback either, But he's not trading up.
Yeah, so no, he's gonna hold onto the third because that's where they're going to take the quarterback.
That's what they're going Like. The bottom line is is that Jerry Judy makes your team better now, he makes your he makes your team better in the future, and stop obsessing over the draft picks. Stop. Okay, moving on from that, and you can.
Call it one caveat and all that now yes, no, yes, no caveat. Yes, no, you have to have to have to sign him long term. I know you can't let him walk after twenty twenty four, but that's that defeats the entire purpose.
Yes, but that that's where I would I would like to think that Macro, assuming that Macro is still going to be here in twenty twenty four, maybe he can sit there and say to Bill, like, come on money.
If they make that trade and then let him walk, that's a total mis mismanagement of assets.
I don't disagree. Okay, Okay, let me put that. Let's let's that's the Jerry Judy take from me and from Alex. If you want to call in and disagree, you want email in and disagree or agree, we can still talk about Jerry Judy for the rest of the show. But I have I have four things, Alex, four things that I would do to fix the offense right now, and it doesn't include Jerry Judy. Right, We're not talking about external, internal moves. So I'm gonna read them off one by
one and then you can tell me your opinion. Right, Number one starts up front, right, offensive line, start up front. Offensive line has to get better. So when the head coach goes on Sunday and Monday and Wednesday, kind of his whole mantra and the mantra around the team right now in the building is start all over, right, start all over? Like just forget about the last serio, no idea, who that is? I knew what you were doing. I
still let it get to me. Start all over right, So in the interest is starting off like, what does that mean to you? Start all over? I got this question a lot, like what's that mean to you? Start all over? To me, what that means is, let's go back to the spring and training camp day one. What was our team, what was our installation? What were the plays that we were running? And that's what we're gonna do, right,
And in that Vein. When it comes to the offensive line, starting all over to me is going back to march. What you thought you had along the offensive line. These were our penciled in five starters along the offensive line. So therefore, I think, and I would even go as far to say that it's ridiculous if this isn't the case. From left to right, Trent Brown assuming healthy, Cole Strange, David Andrews, Mike on Winne. Who I think is gonna play? Riley Reef is.
Going.
I don't know.
He's been limited's let me played last week kind of standing off to the side during stretching.
You'll be all right.
He played a little. I think he's healthy enough to play. I don't think he's healthy enough to play a hundred percent. I think you have to rotate him.
Okay, I don't want to get too caught up again. Why not I would. I would still put Riley Reef at guard Mike and win it tackle. But sure, it's not gonna happen it. See that. That's why I didn't like go that way, because it's not the right. It's not gonna happen. But I still feel like we have to say it, all right. I think that if you're if you're truly starting all over. But and that's starting all over.
We talk about the best five that you know, maybe something changes it left guard, but more or less, that's your best five.
Yes, that's your best five. And I think one of the few bright spots from that debacle against the Saints was that I thought Riley Reef played okay. I thought Riley Reef looked solid. I thought even looked like that's the word like twitchy almost, you know, like he was moving well, and he was sudden with his movements and he was able to redirect and stay in front of guys.
Had a really really good one on one rep against Brian Breeze, who's the Saints' first round pick, Breezy whatever, first round pick, and uh, you know, Breezy tried to spin move him, shut it down. I thought he was really good in that game against New Orleans. And he's got to be in your starting lineup. If if they don't think he can play tackle anymore, because the the stuff we saw in the summer, the foot speed, that kind of thing, then maybe he's left guard right, but
he's gotta he's got to play. He's got to be in the starting five. That's where I would if you're gonna start all over, like that's starting all over to me, starting all over and and and rolling with like the young guys like Antonio Maffi and City. So how's that's that's not starting all over? That's that's not.
I did think it was interesting to go back to that Harald piece. They it doesn't say from a source, but it sounds in form like it's almost like they're sitting there reporting it with that really reporting that Cole Strange is facing a challenge for his job from Mafi.
So I, Mafi's so tough, and we're gonna get to like three up, three down here in a little bit.
Mafi's tough because he was he was Okay, it's currently in a battle for his starting cold. Strange currently in a battle for a starting drob with fifth round rookie Antonio Maffy.
I mean that's fair, but Mafi was He was good against Dallas, or I shouldn't say good. He held his He treaded water against Dallas, right like I thought that he wasn't bad the film, Yeah, the film was some progress. He was terrible against New Orleans. He just he doesn't have. I did the feel and the instincts. Yet I think because of the lack of playing time at the position going back to college, which Belichick talked about last week in his press conference when he was giving him credit
for learning. But line movement stuns, twists, blitzes, things like that, like he doesn't know how to pick him up yet, he just doesn't. He doesn't know. So I still think he's not ready. All right. So that's number one, though, Start all over on the offensive line. Put the five guys out there that not only I think are the best five that you have on paper, but is the original penciled in. This is what we were going to go into the season with offensive line before all the
injuries and all the other stuff happened. All right, Number two, and I think that this is really important moving forward. Let the kids play at wide receiver. I play them all and when, and I include Taekwon with the kids, right Taekwon. I know, Pop Douglas probably not going to play in this game on Sunday, but this is just in general, Taekwon Douglas. Booty should be active. Booty should be active. He should play over Juju. If you're not
playing Booty over Juju. It's because you pay Juju. That's the only reason. It's the only reason. The only guy out of this receiver room that deserves to keep playing is Kendrick Port. Everybody else should be riding the pine for the younger guys, the more explosive options, and also obviously the guys that are going to develop hopefully or maybe not.
We'll see you includingly cunning him. No, Okay, yeah, I think that expands beyond the receivers. I understand, you know, maybe with the line it's a little tricky, but I would give Mafia a chance to win that job against Cole Strange.
But I'm not doing it with they're off, because this is an interest of fixing it, Okay. And I think the reason why I say play the kids, and I know I brought out the developmental thing. Maybe you just think they're better. I think they're better. Okay.
I would say play the kid like uh Marte Mop who's only played like twenty percent of snaps this year. Yeah, and some of that is because he's a passing down player and they keep following these big holes and teams are running the ball, But like, play him, play Keon White, another guy that should play. I'm off for playing the kids, but yeah, a wide receiver, they might help you.
Right now, DeVante Parker and Juju Smith Schuster have given you zilch, nothing, nada.
I mean, there was that one ball against the Saints, I mean, and Parker did a good job of getting himself in position to catch it, and he just didn't close his hands. It just went right through his hands and he didn't make it and he didn't like make it any effort to go up and get it or sorry, made the effort to go up and get it, but he didn't make any effort to actually make the catch once he got up there, and it was like, what are we doing here?
He's one on one all the time and he doesn't win, right because teams are begging Mac Jones to throw the ball outside the numbers. Yeah, and he's so it. Parker's one on one all the time, he doesn't win. Juju.
We know we don't have to like beat a dead horse like Juju has been terrible for them all right, So play the youngins born Born Thornton for this week Boorn Thornton Booty who's lining up where I would play Born at the Z yeah, I'd play Booty as a third receiver, and I'd played Taekwon at the X.
Okay, yeah, probably i'd play Taekwon at the X. In twelve, I would almost play when you go to eleven, I'd kind of put Taekwon in the slot just to get him some free releases. Yes, and maybe it's Born at the X. Maybe it's Booty. They can kind of just go back and forth between. Yeah, I'm not like two caught up and like where exactly they'll play. I think Bill O'Brien will figure that piece of it out, but I'm.
Just I'm just curious. Yeah, because I'm thinking about it for this week, Like Taekwon's not the savior, right, Like we know that Taekwon's not the savior, but for starters, Parker's given his zilch. Parker has given you nothing, And I think that there's something to be said for the fact that Taekwon can at least run through a defense like it might happen, like he might just run.
I think you're looking for can he be a contributor. Maybe he's not a coverage dictator, but if he can show you enough that he can be your third or fourth receiver. Does that help them this year? I don't know, but we've talked about what next year is going to look like. Parker and Juju really the only receivers under contract are they still gonna be here? And then Thornton and that's it in the rookies, Like Bourn's contract's upright, So how many receivers do you have to go get
next year? If you know Thornton can at least be a depth guy. It's not great for the fiftieth overall pick, but hey, it's something, yeah, and it's one less guy.
You have to add it. And even if he can also just be I'm not as concerned with Taekwon with volume as I am with like actual impact of the spacing and the ability to threatn the safety, to keep the safety over the top, and like how it opens up the middle of the field maybe a little bit just by having somebody on the outside that can actually run by somebody one on one. It's not like I don't expect, because of what we've seen, for Taekwan to ever develop into like a high volume producer. But I
also don't need him to do that necessarily. I just need him to be a threat out on the football field. So the offensive line configuration go back to the March offensive line configuration, play the kids. I also just would
say quickly about Booty. I saw enough from Booty in the summer to think at this point when it comes to like the quick hitters, the slants, the screens off our pos, all this stuff that they're trying to feed to Juju, I just think Booty's in more explosive player at this time at this point, so I think he's that are suited to catch some of those passes if that's what you're still gonna do.
Right.
So those are my two things so far. Number three, I think Hunter Henry is your only consistent option, probably your best option at this point. I think Kendrick Bourne is more uh there's more boom to his game, but there's not as much consistency to him. Okay, Hunt, I believe that everything in the passing game needs the funnel through Hunter Henry. Yeah. Yeah, everything he's there. I mean he needs to.
I want to say he needs to be in the Julian Nevilman role, not like he.
Needs to be the chain mover. He needs to be ten to twelve targets a game. Yeah, and he needs to be the chain mover, Like when it's third down. You know that first third down of the game last week against the Saints, the route that Mac threw to him is really just like clearing it out, Like he's not even really the first read in the progression. Necessarily
it's a clear out route. He's running through the middle of the field to take the linebacker and the safety out of the window for the crosser to Devonte Parker. I don't want him clearing out. I want the ball going to Hunter Henry, right, So Hunter Henry, I think, needs to be whatever way you want to call it, like the number one reading the progression. The concept needs to be set up for Hunter Henry, Like he's got to be your go to volume guy in this offense
because the receivers. I think Kendrick Bourn's like, like I just said, a good big play guy, and I don't mean like he's gonna hit a seventy yard touchdown, but you get you catch my drift. Like he's one of those types of guys that can make some high, high impact plays, but not necessarily high volume plays. The volume can pass catcher in this offense for you, is Hunter Henry so he needs to be the third down chain mover.
He needs to be the guy that you set up to wind man to man like, that's the guy that I'm funneling the offense through right now. So that's number three, number four, last one here, and this one I cannot stress enough is something that I just can't figure out about this team. Thy Montgomery needs to be the third down back. Yes, they need Toy Montgomery to be the third down back. I don't understand why they don't want to do this. I don't understand why he's playing wide receiver.
I don't get any of the usage with thy Montgomery to this point. He has shown in last summer, in the opening week of that season, last year, and this summer that he's a decent third down back and I need to see him in that role. I think that this offense is starving for the checkdowns, the dump offfs into the flats, the one on ones against the linebacker, and having somebody that can actually get open. And I don't think Zeke and Remandre are getting the job done
in that sense. I think that they take too long to get into their routes. I think that Mac doesn't know if they're on an option. Are they breaking in? Are they breaking out? And he's waiting. He's holding the ball a lot, trying to throw the football to them, waiting for them to get out of the backfield, waiting for their route to declare just two much much time, take it time. Montgomery's got to be the third down back.
So those are the four things that I would do. Yeah, you know where I'm at with Montgomery.
I agree with you on that he had that bad drop this week, but that's not you can't be sending time Montgomery.
Go ball. Yeah I was a crosser, but he's playing wide receiver. I might and agains. So I would add a couple things to that one. Here we go again. You want to guess who I'm going with this.
No, just get in ie formation or single back and just hand the ball off like that. No more fake push push, no more running out of shotgun, no more remember like Pop Warner, Remember twenty two dive two back to. I know that's not how plays are called at this level, but like, can I get a twenty two dive.
Right?
Something like that? Run the ball like that. That's really the only thing I'd add they need. They're not going to be able to win games during the ball forty times a game. They need some sort of semblance of a running game. In the running game the way it's constructed now, isn't it.
Yeah, I agree, I agree. I think that in a lot of ways, like I kind of put that all together with the offensive line take, you know, that it's all kind of goes together. I do think that based off of, you know, some of the things that you know, I've talked to some of the players about this week. You know, I asked a couple of guys, all right, well, Bill O'Brien said that there's gonna be tweaks. He didn't say that there's gonna be like wholesale changes, but he
said that there's gonna be tweaks. And I think some of the things that they are gonna try to tweak is, you know, less less tosses, less outside zone, like let's trying to hit the outside and just letting these guys, these big guys like on Wyne Vederian Lowe, Trent Brown, like just fire off the ball. If it's Mafi at guard, like,
just fire off the ball. Right. Like to your point, it's not not as much of the side to side, not as much as the movement block, but just gap and just run ahead, right like that's sort of gonna be sort of the goal I think more this week. And the Raiders defense, like you should be able to run the ball a little bit on that interior D line. So I'm with you on that. But those are the things that I would try to do. Now, there's no quick fixes. They have a personnel issue. They have a
talent issue on this team. We all know that. So it's not gonna fix that's not gonna fix itself overnight. But if you start to think about some of the things that the team can do to make it better, I think that's where you have to start. It's obviously, like I said, it's not not gonna be the number one scoring offense in the league the rest of the way just because you make time Montgomery the third down back.
We are all aware of that. But in terms of what they can do in the on the micro level to try to make this at least look like an NFL offense, those are some of the places that I would start, big picture wise, really quickly before we open the phones. I think my like, my one thing with the big picture on this team, I don't know if you agree with this. Alex, I was walking. I think we walked out together on Sunday after the game. Yeah,
and I fully admit I said this yesterday. I think on playbook like, I was like, fire everybody, right, ihire everybody. But at the same time, I do think that we need to take a step back and take a deep breath. And I think that this is one thing I'm not saying like because they're gonna turn the season around and make the playoffs. That's not what I'm saying. But I think this is one thing that you know, separates an owner like mister Kraft with people that cover the team
like us in fans. Right, is that the knee jerk reaction to fire Bill on Monday morning because they lost thirty four to nothing, that didn't happen because you got to see the forest through the trees, right. You can't just react so knee jerk to everything. I would just say that at this point we all know. I think where I'm leaning. I think I know where you're leaning. By won't speak for you in terms of the future
of the team and the head coach. I am certainly leaning towards a full reset, but With that being said, I do want to see the entire body of work. I do want to see the entire body of work. I don't think that in season firing is the right way to go about this, but I I I'm leaning towards that being the end outcome here. Don't get me wrong. But let's see what it looks like, you know, in January. Right, let's just let's give it a breath and uh, and
let's see what it looks like. If it still looks like a train wreck, then he's gone, like, that's well.
I mean, how many games are you gonna lose by? If by thirty consecutively? Right, That's kind of what it comes down to. Can they be better this week? And then what happens when you get to Buffalo in Miami? No, it's you got to see the whole picture, definitely, I there. I don't know that there needs to be like a rush to make a change. There's maybe a little inherent value if you wanted to see somebody on your staff
as an interm you of that. But I don't know that it was so much a gut reaction to that game as it was the last two weeks. What makes it tough for me, and I'm I'm the guy that's the optimist. I'm the guy that's always sitting here. You know, you make fun of me for being too positive. Sure, it's it would be one thing if the issues as weird as this sounds, if the issues were things we
didn't expect, I would almost feel better. Yeah, Like, let's say, let's say instead of you know, the offense being bad and the defense looking pretty good, let's say that they were losing all these games, like sixty to fifty. I would almost I'd feel better because I'd be that's really weird, but hey, we know this defense can do it, and they'll probably turn it around.
And look at this do what the offense is doing.
We've been saying since March even, Yeah, the offensive line is going to do this team in right, and what has happened. The offensive line has done this team in So to me, all they've done to this point is confirmed priors. And that's where I think it's a little again totally. You want to see the forest for the trees, but at this point.
I want to see the full picture.
But maybe we're not looking at the whole forest. But there's a lot of trees in front of us right now. And that's you know, every chance I get. I have said, this is not an overnight issue, right, Like, this isn't just about two games, This isn't just about some you know, a battle, was it now like eleven day stretch or something like that. This has been brewing, and this has been building in the In the personnel side of things particularly,
is is problematic. They they're right now, Uh, they're not a very good talent evaluating team. They don't evaluate talent very well. They have really not made a single good offensive move on this team in like five years. Yeah, this has been my take. Sorry, this this has been my take. What was the last good offensive personnel moved to Patriots made? And I like Matt when we both liked Zeke, but that was like good for the city.
I was like, all right, the situation is what it is. You made the right mo the only good move that they have made in the last five years. And I know it had and turned out good, Yeah, but it was the drafting Mac was the right move, and so I.
Would argue that they've made one good move since. Yeah, And it was about forty hours later when they drafted Ramandra Stevenson.
Yeah, I mean, like like drafting Christian Gonzalez was a good pick too.
Offensive, I like offensive the last like you look at what they've done since, and I don't even know that Like some of it is is is misidentifying talent, but some of it's also just the lack of trying. Who when's the last time they put a and I defined premium asset as a top fifty pick or in fre agency making a player five highest paid at their position in the league. Yeah, when's the last time they put a premium asset in an tackle position?
Yeah, Isaiah Win, They've this isn't It's something that I also think that, like we've talked about, but yeah, it just to echo your point there, there was there was a time in place in Bill Belichick's tenure with the Patriots where they always used to be a step ahead of these things. Yeah. Uh, you know, I tackle obviously the one that we always talk about his Nate soldered Matt Light to Nate Solder. Right, they drafted Matt Nate
Solder a year before Matt Light retired. Nate Solder I think he played some right tackle his rookie year and some title sixth offensive line tight end thing, but really he was a backup. Volmer was at right tackle, Matt Light was at left tackle. Those guys were in trench starters. There are good players for the Patriots, but they still drafted Nate Soldier in the first round because they knew Matt Light was going to return.
Even even at a less impact position. They went, I mean it was seamless Kevin Falk to Shane Vereen to Danny Woodhead to James White, Danny Woodhead and I don't even know. And James White was an important player for this offense, and that's an important role for It's it's not like they tried to draft his replacement or sign his replacement in Whift.
What was the plan? Like?
Was it time Montgomery? I don't think it was because they'd be playing him there?
Yes, was it?
Pierre Struck got caught nineteen passes in college. Again, it goes to that point where they haven't invested at all at tackle. They made one investment wide receiver. It missed, but they made what do you think it's gonna look like? And you look at the guys they've had leave. How many of these big name players that left. You can't find even the attempt the one for one to replace a lot of them. You can't even find the attempt.
Yeah, and just I think we harp a lot on the drafting, but their pro personnel evaluation on offense has been terrible.
No, it's the whole thing again. It's like I said, premium mass set. There's such a thing as a premium mass set at wide receiver. And people will talk about, you know one, people will talk about Hunter Henry Well that was technically before mac, but I would say that was a good move. People will bring up DeVante Parker. He's not I don't think he's in the top twenty highest paid receivers in football right now. Nelson Aglar was
like the twenty fifth highest paid receiver. When they sign up, people talked about that, Oh they gave Nelsonnagelor a big contract. That's not a big contract for wide receiver in today's game. Juju Smith Schuster is the thirty six.
Highest paid wide receiver in football. Those are not premium assets. They are also just bad evaluations of the player. Like the deave Port. I'm trying not to like pile on them too much about the Jacobe for Juju thing because I was wrong about that too, but I was wrong
about it. Sitting in this chair in this studio talking to you about it, I'm not running the football team right like right, And I'm not saying that that makes me like it's better, but it is kind of better, right Like it's you're supposed to know more than me. They're supposed to prove us wrong.
Yeah, we're supposed to be here the media, aud mouth saying what we think, and everybody in the comments, who are these guys, you know, leading to the professionals, and then they do the right thing, and everybody rips us on Twitter?
Right, that's the natural order. So they had all the information I had about probably said. And I'm not exonerating myself. I'm just saying they should have been right, and I should have been wrong, and they were wrong too. That's a problem. John new Smith is having a much better year in Atlanta. So you could talk about that being like a usage thing, but I think that that's part of GMing right, is knowing how you're gonna use a player.
Yeah, you know, I always say this, You got to have whether you're drafting a player, whether you're signing a player, you need to have outside like maybe like Day three guys, you're just drafting for potential whatever, But whether you're gonna draft a player where you're gonna sign a player like with a premium asset, what is the plan? We talked about this. A lot of people call in and say, you know, I like so and so prospect. We did this with with Quintin Johnston, right, people, And he's been
good in LA. Yeah, he's been fine in LA. There there are people who called in were like, yeah, we like Quinn Johnson. We sat in and said, yeah, he's a good player, but is he gonna play what is the path to him making them a better team? And there were other good players with more clear of a path. It does felt like at times they've added guys just to add them and the I mean I Johnny Smith, Nikil Harry, there's some guys on defense as well that it's.
Like Jalen Mills, Juwan Williams, what was the plan there? Yeah? Are you just adding the player to Adam? Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that. I just it's all of it like we I think we harp on the draft and this isn't about Like my take earlier by Jerry Judy, But I think we harve a lot on the draft picks because the drafting has been bad. Outside of a few isolated instances, maybe more recently, it's been a little bit better than it was in let's say, like sixteen
to eighteen. But the twenty twenty two draft is not better than anything that brings it right. Twenty one was good. This year's looks good. Yeah, this year looks okay. I mean Christians Alz looks great.
Christians also looks great. They'll hit on one of Mapu and White. I think the jury's still out, but there's a night with each one that I think one of those guys.
I think they might both like technically hit, but are either one of them an impact player? And I think you've seen flashes from the I don't think. I think both of those guys are role players, and the defense that knows how to use role players. Like I'm not saying that it is like a horrible thing. You just read off all the third round picks the last few years. If they get role players in those picks and then
to Mario Douglas might be something. So it's like, you know, I do think there's a misconception that a good draft means, like all the players are like six of seven, five of seven. If fifty percent your players become like solid contributors from a DRID, you want it. You always want to hit on your first You generally have two Day three picks. You want to hit two of two. You want to hit on two of those three, Yeah, and then one or two on Day three. Yeah.
If about half your draft class becomes contributing players, you had a solid DREFD, you do better beat a solid draft. I think that they hit on their first round pick. I feel it's a decent chance one of those two Day two guys turns into something and then they have to Mario Douglas and it's like, all right, if one more of those Day three guys comes along, maybe a Tonio Maffi's a guy. Yeah, all right, that's just fine.
You're not you know, it's not gonna go up in the Hall of Fame, but that's a fine draft.
Mafi kills me. And I didn't know when I was gonna do this, but I you know, I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it for three down. But I think the biggest thing is is, uh, you know, it's been pro personnel and it's been on a on a college scouting level too, and I think sometimes we even don't call both things out and I and I really feel like it's been on a pro level.
Off.
All right, let's get to the calls and then we'll do three up, three down from this last game against the Saints. Brandon is an Oregon Brandon, if you're still there, I doubted that one. Cousin, Patty, what's up, cousin Patty?
You know I'm still hanging on.
Yes, yes, Evan.
I don't want this to come off as like in a jerk, but the idea that I brought up on you, like I had no idea, Like that's that's why I asked the question. That's why I had the idea. Like I didn't know they were still running McDade teams.
Oh no, No, I just didn't know. You're good.
No, I'm glady cleared up because I'm like, all right, well, I guess that makes sense. It looks like crap. So here's my idea.
I will you know, what do you guys.
Think about this? Love the idea of trading for Jerry and you know we're gonna have all this frigging money to spend in the offseason, Go get T Higgins and draft I don't know how to say his name, Bashanu or and I mean, just ride it out with Mac for at least next year. I don't know who's coming up in twenty twenty five. Do you think that's a better idea than possibly taking a like another quarterback like a Drake May. Yeah, I agree. I don't think we're
gonna get Caleb Williams. But then you're you're sort of throwing them to the wolves, you know, I mean basically our whole line minus Cole Strange, and you know, all the guys that we drafted, all the guards and Jake Andrews that we drafted are are off the team next year.
Yeah, it's a good question, Patty, and thanks for the call. Uh, it's a good question about what's the best way for it. Is it going back in the quarterback Carris in the draft and drafting one of the quarterbacks, or is it continuing to build the offensive personnel so that either Mac works or two years from now, a year from now, you get the quarterback and just drop him in and
hit the ground running. They have so many holes on offense that it's a fair question to ask if it's better to just start drafting offensive players that aren't quarterbacks, because no quarterback is gonna succeed if you just drop him into this mess right now. But my contention to that is, and this is the one time that I might agree with you on this, I don't know what the quarterback classes in twenty twenty five and beyond are
going to look like. I do know that there's a couple of quarterbacks in this class that I really like. So if you really like a quarterback in this class and you can upgrade that position, I'm of this, of the thought that you have to do that. But at the same time, I can hear the other side of it of drafting, was it Joe alt Right is the other the guy he's said, say you're gonna love him,
Marvin Harrison Junior. If you're that high up like I brought Bowers, I can understand that line of thinking, and maybe we get to that point I said earlier of wanting to see the whole picture. If Bill O'Brien has Mac Jones playing better football in the second half of the season, and the arrow starts to point back upward, for mac I don't think he's ever gonna develop into anything like special at the position, but maybe he's a better bridge option for the time being as you draft
your left tackle stud or your receiver stud or whatever. Yeah.
I just the other thing you have to consider here is the whole value of that rookie quarterback contract. Yeah, and the clocks essentially run out on that for mac Jones next year. You know they have the fifth year option, but next year's released last year under contract. You have a chance to reset that thing entirely if you take a quarterback this year. And if it wasn't such a strong quarterback class, I might say, you know, Joe al
Fashanu or whatever, but you're gonna have a shot. I think, get up potentially franchise guy as long as you're picking in the top fifteen. And I used to be the one that was like, yeah, if you don't get the guy memember you really wanted, was it Davis Mills or Kellen Mond, I'd like to tell that the mac Jones here where you were like, oh, just you know, wait till the second.
I didn't say that. I said, if you if I had to take any of the day two guys like the day two three guys.
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of give myself the opposite of Victory lap here too, because you wanted that guy and I said no at that point, just wait till next year. Next year looks like a really good class too. You remember the guy who I was talking about was filed your COVID who's now.
A tight end. So look, you did like I did, like filder Covic and then BC ruined him. Uh mate, going around this city right exactly exactly, maybe next year's class ends up being good. I personally believe Shouldar Sanders is going to go back to school, So I think that's the only guy that I can tell you is going to be in next year's class right now.
Right, So Shouldar Sanders is gonna go one one. So you're gonna have to be the worst team in the league. And if you're picking Joe Alt, if you add more Harrison, those guys are gonna win you games.
Yeah, you know, I look.
At the rest at class, the guys who are projected first round picks right now, Caid klub Nick, I don't think this is very updated because Clemson's offense has not been good.
He does not look like the typical Clemson quarterback. Drew Aller. I don't.
Did you see the press conference with James Franklin about Drew the other day where the reporter ass like, have you ever told h to just throw it deep?
Just to do it? Yeah?
Drew Aller right now? Has you're drafting Mac Jones again. If you draft Drew Aller, the only other quarterback is supposed to go in the first round next year's a guy named Connor Connor Weigman from tex A and m who's not even a starter there yet.
And then you get in like Ty Simpson, who hasn't Okay, sot me ask you this question.
If you have a chance to draft a franchise quarterback with your quarterback who at best has been up and down entering the final year of his rookie deal, I think you have to do it.
It's just too important of a position. So let me ask you the important question, because this is this is a good money question that we're going to get starting in January. We're gonna get this questioning at me now five thousand times. Yeah, who is the Jalen Hurt of the twenty twenty four.
Okay, so you're not even asking me about the first round? Who is the Jalen Hurts.
Because let me preface it. If you're gonna this is the this is the Carson Wentz year. The Eagles drafted Jalen Hurts right going into Carson Wentz's fourth year. They gave Carson Wentz the fourth year to see if it was gonna be good or not. It wasn't. That's when they pivoted to Jalen Hurts. So everybody that called us last year in last draft cycle about the kid from Tennessee, oh, Ken Hooker and calling him the next Jalen Hurts and all this stuff, they I kept on saying, you're a
year too early, You're a year too early. We're here now. So is there I know JJ McCarthy is like the mac Jones. I have no interest in JJ McCarthy. I have zero interesting Yeah. So is there a guy that has the tools but maybe needs to be put together? Okay? So can I give you a couple of names? Yeah?
You know I have to give you a couple of names here. Yeah, a guy a lot of people like is Riley Leonard from.
Duke Oh yeah, I do like him I like his moxie. He just make up.
He's got the makeup. He runs really well. He is not remotely a passer right now, and he just suffered a pretty serious ankleing, so there's some wonders about him.
That sounds right up the Patriots.
I like kJ Jefferson from Arkansas. Big dude, big guy, cannon arm plays with a ton of confidence, can run the football. He's kind of got that like, and I use this comp very very loosely. He's got a little bit of that Cam Newton thing where he's like, I can throw it pastua, I can run through you. Now, his decision making that needs to build up, both as a runner and a passer. He's a little too loose with the football right now. The conference is maybe a little too much, But I like him.
Joe Milton from Tennessee.
From Tennessee, I am very interested for you to actually watch and break down time.
Watched like a little bit of him because he would come in for Cockers sometimes last year because they're blowing teams out. And he would also come in from Hooker for hook On Hill Mary's because he's.
Here's the thing about Joe Milton. If you need somebody to throw the football eighty yards. Joe Milton can throw the football at the right. If you need somebody to throw a five yard slant, Joe Milton can throw the football eighty yards. Like that's just kind of There's one play I think it might have been in their spring game. I can't remember where they're at, like the five yard line, and he's trying to hit a crosser along the end line, like the back of the end zone, and he throws
the ball like like four rows into the stands. Yeah, which is like impressive but not really helpful.
But you're telling me he's like his in his pro day. He's gonna He's Pro day. They're gonna love.
So so here's they Remember how last year I said, Anthony Richardson makes Josh Allen looks like he plays under control. Joe Milton is the next evolution of that. Okay, but Joe Milton. Joe Milton makes Josh Allen look like Chad Pennington.
And Joe Milton's defense, that is kind of what we're talking about.
So again we're talking about the guy who just rock Can you build him up? That's maybe Joe Milton. I've got two more for you okay quickly. One is Grayson McCall from Coastal Carolina. Gray McCall's been in college for a while, and.
One coat say, like is he is he thirty? At like? I think he's like twenty four? What point are we gonna go to the NFL?
So Grayson McCall, people thought he'd be a first round pick at one point and then a bunch of quarterbacks in this class kind of came out of nowhere. He's twenty two, it'll be twenty three in December. He's if you're somebody who thinks, maybe Zach Wilson that makeup is what you want and he just got butchered by the Jets or the spoiled rich kid thing did him in. Grayson McCall moves around really well, throws a really pretty ball. You're gonna wonder about the jumping level of competition and
consistency in the last one. And this one's really interesting. You talked before about Riley Leonard being up the Patriots alley if it's still this regime, because this is a trend with them. Dj Ujungloway is the quarterback at Guy. So he was he was the number one recruit in the country coming out in class of twenty nineteen. Not number one quarterback, number one recruit, and it was supposed to be they had Deshaun Watson, they had Trevor Lawrence.
This was the next guy. Big dude, six four to two. I think he's two fifty. Yeah, six four, two fifty, can throw the ball around the yard. Electric it'ber Matt and we're doing this. They they never they never figured him out. Dabo Sweeney, shocker, couldn't figure him out. He and I was ready to write him off. But he has gone to Oregon State this year and that I know you don't like Pack twelve pac Twel's no joke, this yere Beavers. He has been awesome through five touchdowns
last week beat Utah. Alright, this is but this is the Patriots thing, right, former high score recruit maybe got misused in college.
We're not doing this again next year. This is the Patriots thing. Right.
But but but but you know, high high ranked, high score recruit, maybe didn get figured out. Old has been really good this year. And you're the guy that's clamoring for that modern quarterback. He can run it, he can throw it, he can process up the line.
All of it.
This is who he was supposed to be, and it just never clicked for him at organ At Clemson, it's clicking for him.
Now.
He's gonna rise up draft boards. He's gonna be a guy that probably ends up in that day too, maybe early day three conversation that people look at and say, if he goes to the right and this was Jalen Hurts, if he goes to the right situation with the right coaching staff, the talent is certainly there, not just for him to be a starter, but for be a guy, to be a guy that can win games.
It's just how much did Clemson set him back? All right? All right? I like that. It's depressing that we're talking about that on October twelve, you're gonna be a big DJ younga leg and that that's where we're at. I I just really quickly on the quarterbacks because I have not watched them as extensively as you. As you just rattled off, like seventeen, you gotta watch this week. But the one, well, so let me just play. It's still early, still a lot of ball to be played, so that
can all change. The one guy that I really really like, and this is not like a mid round Yeah, because you know, I'm not that deep. Yeah, I love Drake Bay Oh Evan likes the second best prospect in the way. I really like Drake May. And when I watched Drake May, my comp right now is Justin Herbert. Yeah, you're not the only one that says that. Oh really, Yeah, No, that's you know, I don't pay attention, So who is it.
One of the big draft guys. Is like he's halfway between Justin Herbert and Josh Allen.
Yeah. I think he's more controlled than Josh Allen, So maybe that's where we're getting at from.
I definitely think he's closer to Herbert. I I'm starting to come around on him. Like my thing with quarterbacks, with first round quarterbacks again, it's that carrying trait thing. What does he do that nobody else in the class does. Drake May is kind of in this weird spot where even I think when you take Caleb Williams out of it, because he's a unicorn.
Yeah.
I don't know that any single one of Drake May's traits are the best in this class, but every single one might be the second best in this class. And usually that's the guy that I'm like, but he's he's just so well rounded that I'm starting to come around to it.
Okay, Yeah, Like I got he's got confidence, poise, polished like he just looks he knows that he can play the position. He knows what the position entails. And I think one of the things that I watched him a lot last year because of some of their skill players and Josh dat that was who it was. He's got some of that that off platform moxie too, right, Like he can move around and throw off platform, he can throw a little side arm, he can flick the wrist sort of thing. I think he's got a lot of
the of just throw making ability. Like he's just a quarterback. And it's not like we're trying to make an athlete into a quarterback. It's not like we're trying to do what they try to do with Mac where you're trying to take the intangibles and turn that into an NFL quarterback. Like you said, this guy's extremely well round.
So it's you know, everybody wants to point to Mitchell Trubisky.
He and I was doing that.
I was doing that a couple of months ago because I was not super impressed with him last year as a freshman. Yeah, Richard freshman, I like, I think people were just talking about projection.
And not what he was doing.
And you're seeing that growth now and yeah, he's fucking it's it's I can't.
I know it's Syracuse. I I don't don't, Okay, but I'm just saying. But I'm saying that I don't hype him up in terms of like actually the end result of the play, but like knowing where to go at the ball. He's just I think he's got something, all right. I don't want to I don't want to spend too They're gonna let me just say that they have plenty of times they're gonna play Duke in a couple of weeks. That Duke.
And this is to the Rley Leonard people, Oh look, he made Duke relevant. That Duke offense is fine to fine, That Duke defense might be one of the ten best in college football right now.
That Duke. This is what you do.
So for people including you, who want to learn about these quarterbacks, here teach me.
This is what you do.
You find the games where they're actually fit. Like Washington organ.
This year talking about quarterbacks in the draft, Drake May against Duke is gonna be very all right, let's clear the phone lines and then let's talk about the actual Patriots team. All right, Jeff is in Maine. What's up? Jeff?
Hey, guys, how you doing.
Uh?
So you can twist my arm into the Erry Duke. I don't mind taking him for the future. Uh, there's a part of me that kind of just wants to let this team die and sea, especially the offfensive line. You know, use what you got. I don't think we need to trade for any defensive players or anything like that. We've got put of his talent coming back. That's my take on the roster. And then you guys know, great value in the Walmart brand.
Yes, all right, So.
I don't remember how we used him, but assuming that Bill O'Brien uses Taekwon like great value, will Fuller, what would that usage look like based on you know, whatever film from Houston you watched to scout what Bill O'Brien used to do during the off season. I'll take off the here, thanks guys.
Thanks Jeff. I actually wrote about this in the off season, because like, what else are we going to freaking write about? So I wrote about this in the off season, and I went back and watched Will Fuller and Jamison Williams, you know, Jameson Williams at Alabama with Bill O'Brien as the offensive coordinator and Will Fuller in Houston with Bill
O'Brien as the head coach slash offensive guy. I think with Will Fuller, what you saw you did see a lot of verticals with Will Fuller, right, a lot of go balls, a lot of things, you know, just verticals down the field. Uh. He used him a lot, though, And this is what I'm looking forward to with Taekwon, and I think Alex you had mentioned this a little bit at the beginning of the show. Uh. He used him a lot out of like stack alignments. Right, so two receiver stacks. Uh. So you have the point man
on the line of scrimmage. The idea is is that that point man is going to run off the ball and he's gonna he's gonna take the contact, right, he's gonna get off the line. He's gonna create a little bit of pocket of space underneath him for the receiver to get off the line, uh, without a jam. Right, So get a free release at the line of scrimmage and then will Fuller is so fast that he was
able to then just make make things happen. With Taekwon, I I feel a similar way, and why I'm taking the cheese per usual on a receiver shocker with Taekwon, I feel like that's similar where I think that Bill O'Brien is gonna find ways to get him off the line of scrimmage, whether it's playing him out of the slot, which is what I think that you mentioned earlier, which is one way motion him right, like running him into the route like they do with Tyreek Hill in Miami,
or running him out of bunches or stacks where teams have to pick him up down the field instead of jamming him at the line of scrimmage. I think last year, and I'm not trying to go down the road of like let's pick on Maddy p but last year they played him a lot at the X. They played him a lot on the line of scrimmage, and so he saw a lot of pressman and at his size, he just isn't big enough to get off of the pressman
coverage at this level. So what you have to do is you have to get him off the line of scrimmage and I think that that's why I was bullish in the spring, and you all made fun of me because of the one practice that I saw from Taekwon, and I was already like all all in on it. The reason why is because I saw like a plan being hatched of. He's one hundred and eighty pounds soaking wet, so we're not gonna just isolate him against man coverage on the outside and expect him to win one on one.
We're gonna find creative ways to get him open. And I think that that's what Bill O'Brien's gonna do. Yeah, but you can go back on Patriots dot com if you search that I like Fuller Jamison Williams my name on Patriots dot com. He should probably be able to find that. I remember writing about it. All right. John is in Louisiana. What's up, John? Hey?
What's up?
Your Yes?
All right?
I want I want just talking about it with moving on with Mac and draft to drink me. The reason why I was thinking about it is you know exactly what you have in Mac, so why not just build around him. I know he's having a roth here, but we know what we got it. I'm just building around them like, why why not you go that route?
Yeah, that's that's a fair take. And thanks for the call, John, It's an interesting it's a fair take. And the caller before I talked about, well why don't we use to pick on a tackle or receiver and continue to build with Mac. I think the problem is is that you might know what you have with Mac and is that he ain't it right?
So I think it's even beyond that that they had their chance to build around Mac. Yeah it was the last two years, yea, and they didn't do it. And it's a lot harder to build around. So then what you build around him?
This year?
He's on an expiring contract. Are you going to resign him? Are you going to risk losing him? And then you know what if the next years again that twenty twenty one class we talked about, what if they missed the next year? Kenny Pickett was the only first round pick in that class. So then you're gonna build this whole thing around Kenny Pickett? Yeah, who also probably isn't it.
Yeah?
I just the regardless of Mac, the clocks run out. The clocks run out to build around him because you're losing that rookie contract, you kind of have to reset that.
I also we talked about and I talked about like this was the year that I wanted to find out about Mac. And I understand that we can have excuses. Offensive line has been horrible, the receivers are also mid or limited or whatever you want to call it. And Bill O'Brien hasn't come in a way the magic wand and fixed off all these issues, right, so you have all the excuses. I think dan Orlovsky said New England is currently the hardest team in the league to play
quarterback for probably right, He's probably it's close. Carolina is pretty bad too, all right, Yeah, But regardless, it's probably pretty close. They're bottom five you play, So the only team where it's worse is that the only team that's yet to win a game yet, this Carolina. And then like I tend to say no to the Giants just because I love Dable, but the Giants offensive line is a train wreck, So maybe the Giants are up there
as well. But regardless of all of that, I still think that you have seen you can isolate the quarterback play enough that you can see where the warts are in Mac Jones's game, and I think both of us regardless of how like the nature versus nurture argument of how we got here with Mac Jones, I'm not sold. This is as down on Mac Jones as I've probably
been since they drafted him. This is in terms of my confidence level that you can build around Mac Jones and be not just a productive offense, but a winning football team with Mac Jones as your quarterback. This is probably as down on him as a player as I've been. I don't know how you feel about that. I just I'm down on the whole situation. It's not even just him as a play again.
I go back to that thing where, even if you did want to give him another year one, unless you're overhauling the coaching staff on the front office, where's the belief that that's what's going to happen. Because last year we all sat here and said, you know, yeah, we know they haven't really invested on offense before.
But it's as clear as day this year that they have to.
Do it, and they didn't do it. And even if you move on and it's somebody else who is willing to commit to it, then what happens then he plays the fourth year, are you picking up his option? All right, that's two years and then what are you extending him?
What if not?
If he's still not good? The window to figure it out, we're years.
One and two. Yeah, and they didn't use those years to figure it out. So do you feel like you have a definitive like I I in terms of like I get I just said we're gonna see the whole picture right yeah, but right now this second, do you feel like you have enough information to figure that out? No? I'm close.
No, because if, like I, if you're gonna tell me that there's gonna be another coaching staff in here next year, another GM, then maybe there's an argument for it.
But short of short.
Of anything spectacular, I feel like they're just at the point where the the timeline for rebuild. And actually talk to somebody who works not not even more, but used to work in the NFL front office about this. With the fifty year option, everything and every team's a little different, but generally the timeline for rebuild is there's what you call year zero, which is you're bad. You're just bad, you're overhauling the roster. That was right exactly, Yep. Then
you draft the quarter you have year one. The goal in year one is to figure out if the quarterback you've drafted as an NFL quarterback or not to what extent you don't have to know, but like, is this the guy We're going to move forward with a lot of teams never even get past that. Yeah, but it felt like, you know, year two if and this is all assuming you check the box from the year before, Year two is can you make the playoffs? Can you just get in the dance? Can you win enough games?
Can you beat a couple of good teams while you're in there? Year three in your year three is then can you be a contender? And you're building this up around the quarchampionship window? So year three, I think is can you contend? All right, I contend? How I heard it? Can you contend for your division? You should be a a division contender. You should win a playoff game. Okay, year four and five, that's where you win.
The top championship win. That's championship windows. Maybe instead of championship window, I should say contending contending window.
Yeah, you're you're you're not like a championship favorite, but all right, championship contender, yeah, they were ahead of schedule with Mac. They were where you should be after year two in year one, and then they went backwards. And so right now, based on that timeline, this year they should be an out. They should be a contender for the division and outside contender for the super Bowl. Next year they should be a super Bowl contender.
Yikes. Do you see them getting there?
No?
And that's where I'm like, all right, you got to reset the process. Got it all right? Kevin is in Burlington and they're going to get up to three up, three down? What's up? Kevin?
Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. I want to make the case of I want to make the case of Belichick really had a well thought out plan for the offense, but it just wasn't able to implement it, because I think the offensive problem is really date back to when Brady and Josh were still here. If you remember in twenty nineteen, they started eight to zero, but the offense really wasn't good and it ultimately sank that team.
And I think it's at that part Belichick wanted to transition away from the Irah Pergin system because Brady was leaving and Scarnaki was leaving, and I think he wanted a more consistent running game, and it was very difficult at that time to on board new receivers because I think college was more spread RPO and NFL was running
a out of Shanahan. So if you remember, in that offseason, they brought in Jed Fish as the key coach, and Jed was he spent time with Mike Shanahan, he spent time with Sean McVay, and that's when they brought in Kim Newton. But unfortunately that was also the off season of COVID, so I think that was really really impacted, you know, any kind of new philosophical install and then Jed was hired away from the University of Arizona as
the head coach before the season even ended. And then if you look, you know, last year with Patrica, they were still trying to run you know, Shanahan's zones schemes. So I think, you know, ultimately it's this failure to transition to the new offensive system that's the root cause of the offensive problems, and the offenses of like Ellie Wise, Josh Daniels, and Bill O'Brien are very difficult to run successfully in the modern NFL. I think until this transition happens.
I'm worried that our office will continue to crush this team, regardless of the types of players that they have.
Thanks thanks for the call, Kevin. Yeah, it made a lot of really good points and things that we've touched on. You know, we talked a lot about like the twenty twenty two draft and how a lot of those players were kind of built more for Shanahan offense. You know, athletic guard, speed receiver, speedback, right like, those are some of those picks that were made to suit. That my
whole thing. And it's not to disagree with Kevin necessarily because I agree with him that a big part of their offensive failures were the systemic changes that they made that have not taken hold right that they've tried to make and they haven't worked. I've been saying a lot this week and in general, but this week especially about how annoyed I am that they ditched the full back and just don't have a fullback on the roster anymore. That to me, I think was a misstep. We talk
about like all these types of moves. I agree. Now. The one point that I would push back a little bit on on that being the entire reason. H if you had good players, I don't think it would matter.
Right, And that that to me. If you want to install this new offense, fine, go out and get players to run it. And it just all comes back to that if you ever invested, if you had real talent on offense, I don't care if you're running and Erhard Perkins West Coast spread RPO. If you have you know, Stefan Diggs and the Buffalo Bills offense, you're probably gonna be a pretty good offense, right right.
I So I agree that maybe they miscalculated on a lot of on a lot of different elements, be trying to be more Shanahan like, and that's why this all came apart in a sense. But I still think that that's getting even for me getting a little too caught up in the x's and o's instead of the jimmy's and jokes. Yeah all right, Uh, let's do three up, three down, and then we'll take a few more of these fun calls before we wrap.
Uh.
In classic blowout fashion, Alex, I did two up, five down, because you know, you get blown out like that, you don't get more than two. That's my rule. So let's start with the positives. I'll start here because I kind of mentioned him already first out of the game, first up in the game, Riley Reef. I thought Riley Reef was a lot better in this game than what they put out there at guard. A one hurry allowed and happened late with Bailey Zappy in the game in the
fourth quarter. I thought he was really good in his reps, run blocking. I think he shows some leverage, some toughness, some ability to move guys in the run game. Pass protection, he's been way, way, way better than anything they've thrown out there in pass protection at guard. Much better moving side to side, much better anchor. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. This is a good player that they could film. I should say for Riley Reef, and maybe they have a good player. I'll go to Mario Douglas.
He got open on that one route and he made a nice catch and I mean, am I wrong?
No? And he got hurt, but he got hurt on No, maybe he would have done more. That's not his fault. No, maybe he would have done more. I don't know, he's enough. I feel like two weeks in a row, we had what Damario Douglas is enough for one catch that he made in the game.
It's almost like he should be playing more. Well, I guess like he couldn't have played more last week.
But number two up Anthony Jennings. I thought Anthony Jenks was good in this game. Four stops in the run, game, set a good edge, had a hurry. Nobody had multiple hurries in this game because the Patriots had no pass rush. So the fact of the matter is is Anthony Jennings is one hurry, tied for the team lead. So tied for the team lead in hurries. Four stops against the run. Is Anthony Jennings a difference to making edge? No? Can he set the edge of the defense and play the
run on first down? Yes? And for right now, that's gonna be how they're gonna have to survive without Judon right, everybody's gonna have to have a roll, everybody's gonna have to be hyper specific to that role, and they're gonna have to patch it together. So I have Anthony Jennings.
I'm doing this for the I think the are we can around picking this guy at this point. I'm probably just doing it to annoy people more than anything.
Else.
Miles Bryant, Oh my god, had that big hit on Mike Thomas and he's stepping up making he's like their third highest graded run defender right now on PFF. Yeah, he's had like I think it's maybe says more about the defense than him, but he's been one of their best defensive players this year.
Not bad, not bad. Miles Brian has uh turned in to a player that fans poke at all the time. Yeah, I'll say this with all sincerity. If you're still picking on Miles Brian and saying that Miles Brian is bad, you're not watching the games, right, You're not your your your priors have brought have blinded you, and you're not watching the games this year. Is he prime Stefan Gilmore? Hell? No? Is he a serviceable nickelback? Yes? Yeah? All right? Do you have any more ups? No? Good? Good? I've you're
gonna hate what my downs are too. Number one down? Okay? Mac Jones, Yeah, Mac Jones, number one down. I wanted to save this for three up, three down and talk about MCA a little, but here Mac is a down. I think what the problem is is with Mac. The three biggest things that I see that are wrong with Mac right now. Number one, first and foremost is he is Sam Darnold seeing ghosts out there. He's seeing ghosts even when it's a clean pocket. It's not a clean
pocket to Mac Jones right now. His footwork's all over the place, his eyes are out down on the rush. He is feeling pressure that doesn't always exist, and that's a big, big, big problem. He had a couple of plays in this game where if he had just hung in the pocket and stayed with the play instead of being sped up and making a quick decision because of the of the panic meter with the pressure, he had some open reads in this game, but the ball is coming out so quickly or not at all because he
was panicking because of the pressure. So that I don't know how you fix that. I And when I say fix, I don't know how you fix that. In season he might be able to go to the offseason, take a step back from football and reset and go six months without getting hit, and that might reset him mentally to the point where he can come in next season and not be sped up and panicked under pressure. But in season, I don't know how you necessarily fix that. And the
other thing. I you know, I mentioned the footwork, I mentioned the eyes, you know, going down at the rush, not seeing the reds. I just really think that that's a broken quarterback. And I'm at the point now with Mac. And I don't know how you feel about it, but I'm at the point now with Mac that I don't know if you can put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
I think that this is a guy that once you start to lose it in that respect, and you start feeling pressure that doesn't actually exist, and you start being unsettled with your footwork and like throw with your feet parallel to the line of scrimmage and not stepping into throws. You know, a couple examples, like the Time Montgomery interception. You can argue that a good receiver it hit him right in, catches that ball and shields the safety and makes the catch. The ball is a lollipop. You gotta
step into the ball and throw it. If he steps into the ball and throws it with some velo instead of just arking it up there to Time Montgomery, the safety is not even a factor. Right, Like if he steps and rips it, then Time Montgomery catches it on the run and cuts in in front of the face of the safety and never gets hit. But the ball took too long to get there, and it causes these
types of interceptions. That's not because he was panicked in the pocket necessarily, It's because he doesn't have any confidence to step up in the pocket and step into a throw and let it rip. Those throws need they need to have more mustard on them, They need to have more velocity on them. I just I'm not sure how you put Mac back together at this point. All right, that leads perfectly into my first down. The offense, it just Mac was panicked. He was rushing.
They couldn't get anything blocked, they couldn't run the ball. Nobody was getting off open. Is there any part of that game you look at. I know you you sort of liked what Riley Reef did, but yeah, you know, as a whole, the game plan was bad. It was all bad. It's a bury the ball game. For the offense, they weren't good enough. They just weren't good enough. I know people are gonna say that this is me excusing Mac, especially because you just said Mac is your first down.
Yeah it's no, it's it's all of it. It's it's it's Mac's bad. The offense is bad, the pass catches are bad, the run games bad, and it's they all compound when another. Yeah, and it's not the kind of game where you can single one person out, I think and say, this person had a bad game.
It was all bad. Their offensive film is itster Yeah, it is disgusting to watch. It is an absolute abject disaster, to the point where I always watched the Patriots stuff to Patriots stuff. Then I turned the page. Now that the Raiders played on Monday night, so that threw off my schedule a little bit. Yeah, regardless, thank you, thank you for feeling bad for me. Regardless, the Raiders and
the Packers played that Monday night game. What was the final score, seventeen to thirteen, seventeen thirteen, something like that. So they both because the Raiders haven't scored twenty once this year, they neither team scored a lot of points. That's the point. Their offensive film is fifty times better than what the Patriots put on film. Yeah, they were just turned the ball over and they didn't score. But the fact of the matter was is that it was
synced up. It looked like an NFL offense right, Like, guys are running routes, bockers were blocking, quarterback was throwing. It was all on time. It just they're not very good right now, right, So they didn't hit on enough plays consistently to put up a lot of points. But if you put the Raiders offense that they're going up against this week and the Patriots offense side by side, the ugliness of the Patriots offensive film compared to the Raiders,
it would be night and day to you. I mean, it is a disaster right now for the Patriots offense. So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I had a few more specific guys though, Okay, Number two Antonio Mafi. So, Antonio Mafi has tools. I'm excited about some of the things I've seen from Antonio Mafi. I think he's got NFL play strength. I think he's got NFL hand strength. I think he's got NFL leverage and balance and ability to block and posture and all that kind of stuff. Like,
I think he's got NFL tools. I put Antonio Mafi as a down, but I really mean Adrian Clem. Adrian Clem's got to start making his money on this team, in this organization. A guy like Antonio Mafi has one achilles heel right now. He can't pick up a stunt. He can't pass off a stunt. It's not physical, it's not foot speed in this game as much as it is mental of not seeing it right. He's not seeing the stunt coming. He's not mentally processing line movement up front.
To me, that points more to coaching. This is a common problem for Antonio Maffi going back to the summer, which means that they've been coaching him up on it since the summer and he's not getting better. And at some point in time, Adrian Clme's got to start making some people better on the offensive line. They have to start looking like a five man unit on the offensive line.
And don't don't give me like they haven't played enough together, Like I don't want to hear that these guys have like him and Trent Brown have basically been out there since since pad practice has started. Okay, Like we're not talking about him working next to a guy that hasn't played at all, like a cold strange or something like that. At some point in time, the line has to have an upward trajectory. There needs to be some development for the younger players on this line, like for example, City
So he guard tackle whatever. Yeah, the fact that City so cannot even be active on game day when you're rolling Vederian Low out there at right tackle as an indictment on the coach. Because he's a fourth round pick, he has some tools, he's an athletic kid. He tested really really well in the combine, so he's got some raw ability. And the fact that he's not better than
Vederian Low to me points to coaching and development. So whether you want to put Mafia as a down or Clem as a down, it's one and the same to me, Antonio Mafi Adrian Clem, that's my second down. Mine is the defense. I think you see whe I'm going with this.
You look at the drives the Saints had early in the game, eight plays, sixty two yards, four sixteen, five thirty six. It's hot knife through butter and this this is a quarterback that had a bad arm, a bad throw on the shoulder. Yeah, a team that struggled to move the ball the we end. Look, maybe he's healthier, but a team that struggled to move the ball the week before. Honestly, you look at it, I know people
think probably could have gotten worse. They were like three or four deep balls that either Car didn't throw to Olave or he did and Olave.
Just missed them. There was one touchdown that ol remember, he dropped it Brian.
So as bad as it looked, they got bailed out a couple times by the Saints. UH coverage didn't line up, pass rush never got home. They weren't able to put any pressure on Car, which they had to do to win this game. Alvin Kamara is making guys missing the open field, that that'll happen, but they just didn't seem like they almost seemed caught off guard by the way Alvin Kamara was used in this game.
Defense down. Okay, so I have a position group on the defense, in particular the safeties. Yeah, that's fair. If I had to pick one, Yeah, that's fair all of them. So, Kyle Dugger, where are you? M I a missing an action? Kyle Dugger made some plays in the flat right, made some tackles like Derek Carr throwing late to the flat and Kyle Dugger made some tackles. Cool there. This goes back to something that we talked about a few minutes ago.
With the personnel. They always used to have a plan, right like Nate Solder to Matt liked to Nate's older I'm just gonna use that because it's an easy one to use, Matt liked to Nate's Solder. They always used to have a plan. How many years? How many years? Is the same thing with tackle? How many years, Alex have We talked about free safety's center fielders in the draft, saying at some point you are gonna have to take Devin McCarty's successor, at some point you're gonna have to
get somebody in the building. And both of us were lockstep that we prefer Devin to actually school this kid right, like teach them. And they ignored it. They ignored it, they ignored it, they ignored it. And now they're in a position where they have box safeties that aren't deep middle safeties playing center field in a single, high heavy defense. And Jabriel Peppers, Kyle Duggar, Adrian Phillips, those guys, it's not their fault. They're playing out a position, all of them.
So uh Shaheed Rashid Shahied, Yeah, catches that big pass. Adrian Phillips is like the buzz defender. He lets him go by, he leaves Jabrill Peppers on him on an island. Jabrill Peppers can't pick him up because he's not Devin mccordy in his prime. Big play Chris o'lave is touchdown. Kyle Duggar, where are you going, dude? There's a route on the right side line. I think it's Michael Thomas. It's like a one on one, like fade back shoulder thing.
And then there's one route in the middle of the field and it's Chris a Lava and Kyle Dugger allows Derek Carr to I manipulate him out of the passing window. Derek Carr looks right, so Kyle Dugger moves right, and then Derek Carr immediately comes back left and hits Chris a Lava. There's nobody else in the area for Kyle Dugger to go to right like it's a There's no route that's threatening his zone for him to worry about.
Their free safety play is abysmal. It's been terrible, and all of it goes back like this is why I keep on going back to the head guy. All this goes back to the fact that they never addressed a successor to Devin mccordy, and now they're in a position where they don't have one and they're stuck, and it's been ugly at times at free safety.
It's something we talked about or learning the show. How many guys have left. It's not just on offense. How many guys have left and just left and there was no plan to replace him. You know, whether it's on offensive tackle, at running back, at receiver, it's safety, at linebacker. We've seen it a lot over the past few years in free safety. Certainly that list. I don't know what they thought, maybe like Jabrill Peppers could play it or something, or Jalen Mills could play it. But he's not even
playing like he's the most logical free safety. Yeah, roster, he's not playing.
So Jabrill Peppers and Kyle Duggar if you want them to play center field and like a like a coverage rotation where you're running some sort of exotic and the center fielder drops out of center field and the robber drops back like it's some sort of rotation post snap. Sure, fine, as like a stagnant single high safety like Devin used to do. Yeah, can't happen, like you can't have that guy. And they had options, like there was options in the draft,
option in the draft. Mayor Taylor Rapp was here. Yeah, another guy you could do it, all right, you got you want to guess special team? Yes, yeah, there was. This is pretty clear. Uh, this is just good.
I mean they're not thirty four nothing. You're not wrong Chad Ryland. Look, I'm conflicting on Chad Ryland. We'll start with Chad Ryland. Seven of his eight kicks had been from forty eight or longer. He's fifty percent on all his kicks. Yeah, Uh, seven of his eight have been from forty eight or longer. There are long kicks, so you're not gonna have You're not gonna hit ninety percent from forty eight or longer.
Nobody is justin.
Tucker doesn't, but you're here to He was drafted because he's a big leg. He should be hitting some of these and he's not.
Now.
The snaps and holds haven't been great at times. There was another bad snap this week, this time on a punt. Yeah, almost so went out the back of the end zone. Bryce bearing it. Look he got it going later in the game. He was good later in the game. But he shanked his first two punts. Those both led to short field for the Saints and boom, just like that, you fall in the hole.
Yeah, so that was concerning.
And then you had bro Peppers try to like pick up a punt that was bouncing and fumbled it and didn't end up turning it over, but very much almost did.
In time, Montgomery ran two kicks out of the en zone that he didn't need to run out of the enzone. So the whole thing, it just didn't and.
Right, exactly, well, no, he's at Ryland not run Bear during the second half was good. But it's just like you're seeing on offense where it just looks like guys are trying to do or being asked to do more than what's realistic because they're compensating for what's going on around them.
We've talked about a lot on offense.
It exists a little bit on defense, maybe more now with some of the injuries. You're seeing that pop up on special teams as well.
All right, two more quickly, all right, Vaderian low like he's just gonna live on the downs list, right, Like it's just it's not good enough. It's just not good enough. And it's not his faulty as playing. So this kind of goes to my next one, but it's not his faulty as playing. They should have better options than Vaderian Low. Your fourth round pick should be a better option. Leyow Collin should be a better option. Like, they should have a better option, but they don't. Yeah, and he gave it.
He's gave up another five pressures in this game. He has given up the most pressures in the league amongst tackles. Alex and he's only played four games and he's still giving up the most. Yeah. Okay, so he is the worst right tackle. He's the worst tackle in football, period, and he's this Patriots starting right tackle. So this goes to the last one. He's on the perpetual down list. It seems like for right now, Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick
on the down list significantly. He's down bad at this point. Yeah, there's a lot of issues with this team. Most of them are personnel driven. We've talked a lot about all of that right tackle, free safety. Some of these spots that we're talking about go back to the whole thing of what was the plan, what was the succession plan, what was the thought process? Those spots. It's now two years in a row. And this is why I lumps Vederian Lowen with Bill. It's now two years in a row.
That right tackles the worst position on the Patriots roster. Worst position? Yeah, how do we not address this? How they didn't address it at all?
Oh?
Sorry? Signed? Rather, they signed Riley Reef and Calvin Anderson. That was addressing. They signed a career backup in thirty four, and they drafted a guard from Eastern Michigan and tried to make them into the mystery box again city so could be anything. He could even be at tackling. And I got this question on Twitter. I think of like, okay, well, out of McGlinchey, McGary, Jwan Taylor, Like who who's who are those guys at Orlanda Brown? Who those guys have
actually played well with their new teams. It's not the point, right, it's not the point. It's not that's not how it works. Like you can't just say, oh, this guy hasn't been good, so that why why waste? Like why sign him? Yeah, of a, it would have been better than what you had and be you don't know what that player would look like in your system and in your team Bill Belichick's you can There's so many different things you can
point to. You can point to end game stuff, you can point to game plan stuff, you can point to personnel decisions. It's down bad all of it. And at this point, I'm running out of things, and I can't believe I'm saying this about Bill Belichick. I'm running out of things to say that he helps this football team with. If you can tell me one thing that you really think that he is helping them contributing to winning on this football team, I'm all years.
Miguel Ben's in very well time tweet right now. How many right tackles do you think Matt starting right tackles you think Mac Jones is played with with his time in the Patriots?
Oh god, ten? Yes, actually, yeah, nailed it? You want to? Yes? Oh boy? Isaiah Win, yep, that's one, Godneka just yep. Marcus Cannon, Calvin Anderson, Vederian Lowe, Oh man, I don't know. Trent Brown, yep, you got one more from last year, and then it's all twenty one guys. Oh god, who's the one from last year? It's like on the tip of my tongue. It's killing me. Who is it? Connor McDermott. Ah, yeah, I knew, I knew who it was.
All right, the rest justin Hran Yanni could just and Mike and Win. I said, y oh did you who did I miss?
Trent Brown?
Oh?
You see your drant? Yes? Oh god, god, what a list. It's in three years, less than three years, really to and change a two and a quarter?
Oh god, all right, that's a new right tackle every three games.
Yeah, all right, Who's who's your last down?
No?
That was it? You only have? Yeah?
Oh yeah, you have three offense defense Qecially coaching. I feel like I kind of wrapped it in with all of it.
How do you like? Genuine question? Because I you know, this is what we do. Yeah, And what's up?
Like?
What do you think is wrong with Chad Ryland? Like do you think it's just simply that he's been asked to kick a lot of forty eight plus the arders and I can't say fifty plus anymore? Yeah, No, it's it's a lot of little things. I think.
You know, you had the bad snaps, and first of all, you had he didn't really get a chance to kick in the preseason and it's wild, right, which that helps. You had the bad snaps, the bad field in New York, and you wonder if it all just kind of compounds, and it's like, you know, he kind of didn't have he didn't kick really in games for a few months, and then his first game action was rough. And now maybe he's in his head and he hasn't exactly had
a lay up to get back going right. It's not like he's gotten like a twenty five thirty five year old five yard chip shot to sort of just see one go through. I don't think he's a bad kicker, but it's so mental at that position, and I wonder if that stuff's all just starting the layer up.
Oh God, just add it to another the list of things that are not going well for this team. All right, let's get back to the phones. Dan is in New York. What's up, Dan?
Hey, guys, can you hear me?
Yep?
Yes, yeah.
So I just wanted to say that I feel like this weekend's game is pretty big in the sense that if we lose, it's just going to be spiral effect. I mean, got Buffalo in Miami after that, and then and after the Commanders and Colt is not a gimme, So going into the by potentially there's a good chance of you or two and eight, one and nine and three and seven. So at that point, do you guys think that we should embrace the full timeway. What's the status of the team then, like, are they even until
we committed or yeah, very hypothetical. I think it's a good chance happening.
Yeah, yes, if they're like one to nine one. Thanks for the call, Dan, so h embracing the tank, I don't really know. You know, we've talked about this in terms of like tanking comes from the top down.
It's it's a goofy thing you can do as fans, but the team will never Guys on the team aren't gonna I'd say they're not gonna quit. But like, guys are still playing for future jobs, future contracts, Guys are coaching for future jobs.
So I think that the biggest thing. And you know, I don't usually get into this to the to the psyche too much, but in this in these moments, you kind of have to. Yeah, and I think the biggest thing that I'm interested in when we go to to Vegas this weekend, back to Vegas again, you get to go to luxow see the beam? God, Uh buy in? Like want to will who's pulling on the rope? Because you don't lose seventy three in a two week span on talent alone. You don't lose like that on talent alone. Right,
You lose on that because you're not They're not. Everybody's is giving it one hundred and ten percent. So this is a really big test in my mind because you're going to Vegas, You're going on a six hour flight across the country. Uh, you're leaving a day earlier than normal because of the long fight. So this is a little bit of like a weekend, right, It's a little bit of a trip, Like we're not just going for for you know, twenty four hours and coming home. Who's
who wants to play on Sunday? And is there enough guys in that locker room right now that want to play on Sunday and want to fight for the season and want to try to pull out of this where they have that kind of effort or do they lay another egg? Because if they lay another egg, then I'm starting to get with you on the fact that in season firing is on the table. If they chose some fight. Uh,
and they show Gofer did they win? Like, you know, I think that that's pos Like, then that's showing you something, right, Yeah, But this is to me, before we get to schemes and we're gonna do key matchups here in a second, before we get to matchups and x's and o's and game plans and things like that against the Raiders, the biggest thing is is do they even want to freaking be there or not?
Right?
Yeah, I think that's fair.
I would just to the second part of that question, like what do you look for if it gets to that point?
If it does? Yeah?
Uh, And we kind of talked about it earlier, like how do the kids look the guys who you know are gonna be here if they reset it, Kean White, Marte Maphu, Taekwon, Thornton, Tomorrio, Douglas Kashawan, Boody, the rookie lineman. Uh, maybe Andrew Steuber gets some run like these are the Collie Cunningham. These you're just kind of looking to see, all right, are any of these guys part of the plan moving forward? Or like can any of them help you build this thing back up?
Or where do you really need to go? And address. Yeah, all right, Gene is in South Carolina. What's up? Gene?
Hey you guys hear me up?
Yep, we're gould Oh.
Jump speak your phone?
Do you hear me?
Yes?
So, just I know, I'm just a fan, but it's just an idea for you guys. I was curious what you guys thought. So I know they talk about people not having or the players not having any uh any confidence in Mac, So why couldn't we You know, DeVante Parker, he's missed a couple of Condessa baskets that I think he could have caught, and he just I just didn't think he like tried like he was better last year and then juju, I mean, obviously just missed communication. We
can go on. I listen to you guys talk about it all the time. The tight ends work with work with him. Why not just bring cunning him up and use Booty and you just Douglas when he's not hurt and and just go with these younger receivers and try to build something on that. But Mac, he's like Mac has a better relationship with the younger.
Receivers anyway, Okay, yeah, thanks for the college. Interesting. I don't know about the younger receivers versus older receivers thing. I will tell you this. If your idea of bringing Malik Cunningham up is to put in a Taysom Hill package and just give you that option on offense to maybe run him a little bit like that, fine, I have no interest in MALIEK Cunningham playing receiver in the game. None.
If you want him to play wildcat quarterback and add that element, because you can't move the ball anyway, so you might as well try it, I can hear that. But if you're asking me to play Milie Cuttingham at wide receiver, I'm out. That's where I'm at. Right, Do you disagree?
Yeah, I'm not opposed to the idea, like long term of him being a wide receiver, but I just from what we saw in the summer, he's not close enough he had to play that position in the NFL game.
Not even close. All right, let's get into the Raiders a little bit. This Raiders game, I think is in a lot of ways like the Saints and that, and I feel like this is true almost every week. Not to pick on a scap here, but if you were to like rank the rosters, Raiders have a better roster. They have better They have a better top of the roster than the Patriots. The Patriots don't have a Max Crosby.
Well they do, but he's hurt. The Patriots don't have a DeVante Adams, correct they I don't think they have a Josh Jacobs, No, sob Myers, and they don't have Jacoby Myers, so they don't. The Raiders have better top end talent than you do, so in that respect, it makes it tough for me to pick the Patriots in this game because I think pretty much everything else is equal, but they have a few more game changers than you do, and that's what's going to tilt the scales to the Raiders.
With that being said, though I do think that this is a winnable game. It comes back to what I said earlier about do they want to win? Do they even want to be there? That's gonna be a factor I think in general with the Raiders, there's there's two things that really stand out to me. One, obviously, Max Crosby is one of the best players in the league.
His film is just ridiculous, Like the guy combines the relentless motor with skill and block anticipation, and the ability to against the run and the pass like he's I think that's what makes him so rare is that there's a lot of guys that can rush the passer in the NFL a lot. There's not a lot of guys that can play the run as well as Max Crosby can. He does both of them at an elite level. He completely ruined the game for the Green Bay Packers on Monday Night. I think he did it for Steelers too
the other week. Yeah, completely took the game over. So he can do that against his patriotsy, he certainly can against this offensive line. So that's number one. And number two to me is that I think that if you get too caught up in all the weapons that the Raiders have, you are gonna get overwhelmed by trying to solve plug holes defensively. Uh, it's Adams is tough, right, Like Adams the best receiver in football, maybe you know
he's top five. Certainly looks a little compromise to me with that shoulder like I didn't think he looked like he was as good. And that's where other guys get open off of that. So then you have that, and then you have the run game, which I've always touted McDaniels. I still even though there are numbers and their production isn't quite as good as last year in the Run game, I still think that they design it really well and
Josh Jacob is a good runner. So you have the run Game and then you also have their their their slots, Jacoby Meyers, Hunter, renfro Uh, those guys. So I think if you try to play, you know, the game plan is we're gonna till coverage to Adams and we're gonna do this and we're gonna stop to run with you know, seven in the box, and like, I think that you're gonna get overwhelmed by trying to plug holes. The one
thing that you can do. They'll like, you know, to use a Star Wars reference, because you know a big Star Wars guy the uh the spot and the death Star that you can shoot at. Well, that's appropriate because as we call it, their stadium is the death Star. You maybe Mac canhelp me. What's it called, like the thing that that they shoot in ventilats that ventilationship. Yeah, yeah, the ventilations shaft of the Raiders death Star is the
quarterback is Jimmy Jimmy. Jimmy Garoppolo is beatable, right like you can you can beat no but Evan. But Evan he's a winner. Have you seen his record? So Jimmy, uh is? The game plan against Jimmy is very very cut and dry, right like he his his splits. Whether you want to watch the film or you want to look at the numbers, his his splits tell the story. Pressure no pressure in breakers all other rats. If you take away the middle of the field and you pressure
the quarterback, he will self destruct. Yeah, point blank. So in my mind, in this game, it's all about throwing off Jimmy because if you just let him sit back there and he let him throw his digs and his slants and his you know, crossing routes and things like that, their weapons are going to move the ball. Their weapons are good. They're gonna move the ball. If you get Jimmy to throw up all over himself, then you have a chance. So if I'm the Patriots, I'm game planning Jimmy,
I'm pressuring the quarterback. I'm this is basically what they did last year. Yeah, I'm I'm packing the box in the middle of the field, right because that kills two birds with one stokeus top the run and I'm gonna take away the middle of the field and I'm gonna make Jimmy Garoppolo beat me down the field and outside the numbers like that. That's where I'm gonna make him
beat me. And if he does, you tip your cap and unfortunately you lost, right But that but that's the way that the cookie crumbles.
Uh.
That That's where I'm at with this Raiders game. I think it's winnable. I'm not picking the Patriots because they I picked the Patriots the last two weeks for some God only knows what reason, and they embarrass me both times. So I'm not taking the Patriots. But if I'm the Patriots in this game, I worry about how can I I I might not be able to stop DeVante Adams, right, like Chrischi Gonzales, I don't have a Durell Reeves Stefan
Gilmour to go out there and stop DeVante Adams. But if the guy who's throwing the ball at Devonte Adams can't get him the ball, then I'm in in good shape.
Yeah, I just I isn't isn't the game playing the same against the Patriots. Yeah, right, and and that's where all right, So you gotta pressure the quarterback, you got to take away the number one receiver, you gotta take away the middle of the field. Patriots might be better, Quip takeaway the middle of field with their safeties. But you're talking about Max Crosby and Marcus Peters versus josh U Chay and Chay Jackson essentially Devonte Adams. You mean no, no, no,
I'm saying the two guys. If both defenses are gonna go with the same thing, right, it's who's going to execute their assignments at a higher level. Is it Max Crosby and Marcus Peters or is it josh Uchay.
And j C.
Jackson. Yeah, And if that's the key, j C. Jackson Marcus Peters might be kind of close interchangeable. Yeah.
Yeah, I just think Max Crosby takes this game over. I just I just don't see how he doesn't.
Okay, So I'm with you. I think that's more than fair. The other kind of big picture matchup thing before we get into the little matchups, big picture matchup thing. This it's funny. I think Fred put it the other day that normally we talk about like two really good teams, and like it's like strength on strength, right, Like it's like great offense against great offense. They're great defense against
great defense. This is a weakness on weakness. Okay, So this is basically a big part of this game to me. And who might win this game is who stinks less in this category in man coverage or the Patriots against man coverage. Who doesn't screw the pooch?
Right?
Because the Raiders right now dead lass in the league in most statistics in man coverage as a defense man to man defense. They think they're giving up over in nine yards per past attempt in man this season, right, by far the most in the league. The Patriots are by far the worst man coverage offense in the league. They can't win against man coverage. So who makes more plays the Raiders defensive backs or the Patriots receivers against man coverage.
Well that kind of goes into mine where I'm curious what it looks like without Juju and Tomaro Douglas. Right, Juju's a fifty eight percent used to drake guy. Douglas is twenty five. But Douglas is like ten percent of all their receiving yards this year in just twenty five percent of the snaps. Is it Taekwon, is it Kaishaun Boody or are you can get more Jalen Rager. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me, and Evans is probably gonna annoy you. But I wonder if we just get a ton of twelve.
We just get a ton of twelve personnel with Kendrick Born and Devonte Parker and they're just putting Faroh Brown in the game a lot to counter Max Crosby. Yeah, instead of having that third receiver on the field with guys banged up. I would like to see Kijon Booty. I think you probably should see Taekwon Thorn a good amount, especially without Douglas, because he gives you that speed element.
There'll be a little bit of all of that.
But I would not be surprised if we see a ton of twelve in this game, essentially just with the six offensive tackle in Pharaoh Brown.
I like that. I think that that's a big part of this game. Like when you talk about one are the scheme tweaks that they can make Max protect keep everybody in right right, Like just seven guys in the protection eight guys in the protection whatever you want to call that with the running back. Seven man protect, eight man protect, play action, two man route combinations not We
talked about this a little bit last year. A lot of bit I should say, was Zappi right, Like, not only does it protect the quarterback, but it also so simplifies the read for Mac. He's basically reading one route, right so, and really more in reality, is really really reading one player and that's the deep safety. But the deep safety plays the post. He's throwing the crosser. The
deep safety jumps the crosser, he's throwing the post. Like it's It's really as simple as football gets for a quarterback. So I I would really think that they are going to do a lot of that this week. Whether it's true they haven't. I don't think they've run a single snap in true six O line yet. I don't think so, whether it's true six to oh line or it's you know, twelve personnel and bowl tight end, stay in and block regardless, that needs to be a part of this game plan moving forward.
Yeah, I think I just think you have the perfect opportunity to do it this week with how banged up they are at receiver.
Yeah, all right, uh, quickly key matchups. We kind of mentioned this one already, Uh Varian Lover's Max Cross. Yeah, I thought were already doing this. Sorry, that was one of mine. Yeah yeah, it kind of is hian. I'm sorry, I don't meant to laugh, but Vedarien Low against Max Crosby, Uh, this is this is as big of a mismatch as Michael Parsons was, Like, this is a gigantic epic mismatch.
Uh.
I don't really know what the Patriots do other than trying to throw waves of bodies at Max Crosby. Again, twelve personnel Pharaoh Brown. Yeah, it's gotta be like Pharaoh Brown double teams and if they're passing, then like the back like goes over there to the to Crosby side too, and like if he gets through the two guys on the double team, then he's got to at least run over a speed bump on the way to the quarterback, right, Like you just have to throw waves and waves and
waves of bodies at Max Crosby. And uh I mentioned this when they played Parsons, Like when you when it's your turn to chip them, like like freaking like lay into him a little bit, right, like like actually hit him. Uh, you gotta make him feel some of that, and you gotta maybe even most importantly, like gotta make him start looking for it right, like I'm gonna get off the ball. Oh wait, is it coming? Is it not? Right? And then that kind of that split second of indecisiveness that
buys you time too. Uh. So you gotta throw away as at bodies at him. You can't leave Venderian low one on one against him at all, really, right in this game? This is a this is a tough one.
Yeah, that's my top one too. I mean they got to figure out away again. I think it's fair with Brown probably helps. I think shifting coverage to the right probably helps, but or shifting sorry blocking, Yeah, but then you need Trent Brown winning one on one. You need whoever's at left guard winning on one that creates its own issues within itself.
That's why I probably would expect Riley Reef to play left guard, because the left side is probably gonna be one on one. Yeah, and so he's probably your best bet leaving him one on one at this point, So
I could see that, all right. Uh, number two here, we haven't talked a ton about Jacoby main reason is because like I don't want to be taking any victory laws because I was dead wrong about this, So I'm not gonna like rag on them as like everybody else is about Jacoby and like really quickly like not pointing fingers at anybody in particular. But if you're like doing the Jacoby victory lap, like can we go back to your tweets in March and your articles in March, like
what were you saying about to move back then? Cause I'm not going you know, and I'm trying not to, Like I'm not I was dead wrong about this too. So if you're gonna play revisionist history and now all of a sudden fast forward to now and you're gonna write your articles of the Patriots really screwed this one up, like, well, you know, did you two? You know, like you probably did. Jacoby versus John Jones, I think is probably gonna be
the matchup most of the time. I would expect JC to stay on the on the perimeter with with DeVante Adams, this one's tough. I think John Jones will be fine in coverage on Jacoby. Jacoby obviously is a great route runner, good hands. We know Jacoby Uh. The one thing that I would be worried about in this game one of the odds Josh lets him throw a pass. I think it's pretty high. Yeah, it depends on what the score
is like if it's a close game. I don't know if McDaniels McDaniel's trick plays all the time.
Yeah, No, that's on the table whenever, that's on the table whenever. I just it's gonna be just as an observer of the game, it's gonna be fun to watch Dacobe Myers and Jonathan Jones, two good players, two players who know each other very well, going head to head. I think that'll be enjoyable to watch. And this is a big game for Jakobe. You don't think there's a little extra juice for him.
Your kid, yourself. I am interested to see what he's gonna do me as well. It's gonna be interesting match up, all right. Last one here, whether it's Colton Miller on the left side, Miller will be there at left tackle. Their right tackle situation. I think Illuminor has started over there most of the time, but he's hurt and Munford's the backup. I Either way, whoever's that right tackle because Colton Miller is a pretty solid player. You can rush on coldon Miller too, but Josh J Josh J has
gotta get out to the quarterback a little bit. Like last week one Hurry really wasn't very impactful in that game. Didn't play a ton, but wasn't very impactful. It needs to be better than that. Without Judon, they need second half of last year josh Uja, Right, like, that's the player that they need to see. I know he's been banged up and that could be a factor, but if he plays a backup right tackle, even if he plays a lumin or who I don't really think very highly of,
he should be able to win that matchup. And if they're gonna get any sort of pass rush going, it needs to come through josh Uja. Yeah, I'd agree with that.
It's we've talked about this for a few weeks now that with Matthew Judon out, we're gonna see, right, he had that great end to the season last year and was it hey he finally figured it out, or was it just teams were so over compensating for what Judan was doing that he kind of got cut loose. Now we can see what he does as a number one pass rusher.
Yep, you got anything else?
Yeah, Bill versus Josh, Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniel's just that element of it, and it goes to your thing about the trick plays, and you know on both sides are gonna have some special in store. I thought, Josh out coach Bill last year. Josh's staff out coach Bill's staff last year. And yeah, you know, it's a big spot for Bill Belichick, Bigger than anybody. I would say, bigger than Mac Jones, is a big spot for Bill Belichick. We said last week was a big spot coming off
the worst loss of his career. He did not respond. Does he respond this week?
Yeah, it's a it's an interesting matchup. I actually have you know, you know, I love Josh. Yeah, and I've actually enjoyed watching the evolution of his offense in Vegas. Uh, he got a lot to get a lot watch a lot of Vegas because they've played him twice. And you know, the thing is with him, we've all I've kind of always believed that McDaniels does McDaniels and the players. It's
on the players to adapt and fit the system. And I think that that's been pretty true in Vegas at quarterback, right, which I think a big reason why Derek Carr is not there anymore.
Right.
But in terms of yeah, but in terms of how he's used the personnel, I think it has evolved quite a bit. Like because he didn't have a Divite Adams in New England, right, so to find ways to get Devanta Adams open, You're not going to run Devanta Adams like he used Julian Edelman, right, Like, that just doesn't make any sense. So I think that they have adapted quite a bit in terms of how they attack down the field. And they're still middle of the field offense.
There's still a gap run team. There's a little bit more Shanahan in there now because of Jimmy I think, like a little bit more bootlegs and things like that, and like just a little little less full back. Not like they haven't ditched it, right, Yaka Johnson's still out there. Yeah, seventeen percent last year they were at twenty one percent,
so it's not a huge difference this year. Yeah, And I you know, but against the Packers, that stood out to me a little bit was that Yaka Johnson snaps were really just like short yardage in red zone when they were in between the twenties, they ran a lot of twelve and they have they have Mayor obviously a tight end, and they have a Hooper too, So they have two tight ends that I think are are capable, and they they've ran it a little bit differently, not
a ton differently, but a little bit differently just because of the personnel. So he's adjusted. They're trying to get the run game going, just like the Patriots. Josh Jacobs has not been as good. No, and that's I think a big reason why too, whether they've changed some of the blocking schemes and some of the things up front. But that's the Raiders. I mean the Raiders. This is
an interesting game. It's the Raiders are the Raiders. The Patriots are gonna know them well, they're gonna know Josh well, they're gonna know Patrick Graham, the defensive coordinator. Well, this comes down to to me, again not to be a broken record, but this comes down to effort, Like this comes down to want to do the Patriots want to play hard? Do they want to be there? Do they want to get a win? And the Raiders coming off that Packers with you know, they're still in it. I
think what they're two or three? You know, they're still in it. The Patriots maybe not. Yeah, that's a thing. That's what we got. All right. On that note, we're gonna wrap it up and Alex and I will be back next week to preview the Buffalo Bills and the Bills. Are the Dolphins Bills? Is it Bills Bills? First? The Buffalo Bills. Recap this game against the Raiders. Let's just hope the Patriots. Is it fair to say competitive against the Bills? Is like a win in this situation. Let's
see what happens this week. Yeah, let's see what happens this week. Oh boy. All right, we'll see you guys next week. Thanks, thanks for listening. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, Please rate and review us.
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