This is the Patriots Catch twenty two Podcasts with Evan Lazar and Alex bart.
Lazarre.
Hello, everybody nailed it.
He joined as always by our bark.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars.
All right, well you just went through a sickness, an illness to just go three minutes on Joe Millen. So that's how you know how good he is or how nobody get you interesting?
Interesting?
I didn't say good, You're right?
Is Evan changing his tone on that one?
Has he gone from there?
Has he gone from interested to end? Has he dropped the tristed when it comes to Joe Milton? We will find out later on in the program. It is Alex Barth and Evan Lazar brand new episode of Catch twenty two. Last week I was virtual because I was sick, didn't have my voice. Evan was in the host chair. This week, Evan is in mobile. He is at the Senior Bowl. So I am in the host chair here in Foxborough,
here at Chillette Stadium. Obviously we're going to have a ton of Senior Bowl talk, a ton of prospect talk, a ton of draft talk.
Today.
Let's take your calls eight five to five Pats five hundred eight five five Pats five hundred again the number of web radio at Patriots dot com if you want to email in. So it will be mostly draft, mostly Senior Bowl. But the Patriots hired a coordinator and that's a big deal. There's only three on the team. Actually, they've hired two I think since our last show.
I think comtitles.
I think the Comington hired didn't come until that was over the weekend, right, So ye, We've got a couple of coordinator related notes to get to, and we'll talk about the offensive coordinator as well before we get into the prospect. So Evan, I guess let's start there. The offensive coordinator conversation is probably going to be a bit on the longer side. So just what they have in play so far? Or DeMarcus Covington, Jeremy Springer, your thoughts on those two guys starting off Girodmeo's staff.
Well, on a positive note with DeMarcus Covington, I feel like this is twofold one. You wanted to see them keep some continuity on the defense side of the ball. Obviously they were going to do that already with the head coach being an internal promotion, but I felt like that side of the ball really wasn't broken. There was no need to go outside the box and try to
fix something that was working. Ninth and DBOA last year, top ten finishing DVOA the year before that as well, So they're okay on the defense side of the ball. I know, in you're four and thirteen, it feels like everything is bad, but they weren't bad on defenses past year.
And DeMarcus Covington has a lot of fans in that locker room, and that I think is a big thing about the way they're going through this process is making sure that the players are on board with the coaches that are in place, and that they have a pro player coaching staff, you know, a player friend coaching staff. And I think DeMarcus Covington has a lot of fans in the locker room welly, very well respected, very well
thought of, and a hot commodity. I think a guy that a lot of teams that were interested in as a defensive coordinator, interviewed a bunch of different places. So in that respect, I feel a lot of positive jews from DeMarcus Covington, but I'm interested to hear your take on this, Alex. You know, there are two things that
do worry me. One, this whole entire coaching staff Jeremy Springer included the special teams coordinator that they reportedly hired, All Young, a lot of first time guys on the job. DeMarcus Covington has never called plays in an NFL game before. Girod Mayo has never called defensive plays in an NFL game before. So they're passing that towards most likely from Steve Belichick to DeMarcus Covington. So the inexperience is a worrisome factor for me and all this. But I do
like DeMarcus Covington, like I like Girod. I think they're both good coaches. Just going to be a matter of is it too much inexperience and do they have enough proven sort of commodities on the coaching staff to carry them through and how does the play calling thing go? Because to me, I don't see how Steve Belichick stays in this equation.
You don't know that I'm not rolling it out yet.
I know and I know there's been reports. I think Reese has floated out their potential assistant head coach title instead of defensive coordinator. But I just feel like it's weird, especially for a young thirty four year old first time defensive coordinator, to have the guy that was calling plays and essentially Coke defensive coordinating or co coordinating the defense last year, last couple of years with Drodmeo, to have Steve in the building kind of like hanging over his shoulder.
First couple of signs of trouble rough Waters, like, are people going to start asking and questioning why is and Steve the play caller? Why is and Steve taking more charge of the defense. I just think that a clean slate is probably what's best for DeMarcus Covington, even if Steve would add value in the building in general, I don't know how you feel about that.
I think if I don't know, how many people are going to be calling for Steve Belichick to be the head coach if it doesn't go well with Gerrod, I think people are gonna go right just back to while they shouldn't have fired Bill. And that's gonna happen whether Steve's in the building or not. So I don't think there's too much there. I think if Drowd Mayo thinks he adds value, and it adds to Mayo's comfort level having him in the building. I'd take I'd bring him back.
If DD Mayo's worried about the overhanging elements of the Belichick name, you know, you got it's drawd ship. Let him run the ship. You know, that's who should ultimately be up to. If he thinks it's beneficial to have Steve Belichick back, then I'm all for it. The play calling thing is the biggest question here. Because they kept the continuity, you figure that they're not going to change much, if anything, schematically, it's going to be more or less
the same core concepts. So the personnel still works all of that. It's just what's it gonna look like calling plays? And that's the big question for me, And real quick on Jeremy Springer. I know a lot of people are worried about the RAMS special teams. I don't have the DVA numbers in front of me, but they were.
Dead last, all right, so they were.
They were also dead last on PFF last year in terms of special teams. The year before that they were thirty first, so or no, sorry, they were thirty first in the year before that, dead last. So it hasn't been good to which I'll say one at least last year they were super young. They had something like twenty udfa's on that roster, and the one area they were good is their kickers. Their kickers were generally pretty good. So I'm not gonna sit here. I know I'm normally
the guy, the special teams guy. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you I know all the special teams candidates that were available right from the people who were interviewing around the league. It's not like there were many special teams coaches interviewing from successful special teams units. Like most of the guys they interviewed. The guy from the Giants whose name I'm blanking on, their special teams ranked
kind of towards the bottom his last two years. They're Marquise Williams, who they offered the job to and he turned it down. The Falcons were fifteen special teams two years ago, but last year they were towards the bottom of the league. And most major metrics, these are just the coaches who are available. There's more variance with special teams than there is with offense or defense. You can go from the bottom to the top or the top to the bottom. It varies very dramatically year to year.
So if they put the pieces in place, I think Jeremy Springer will be okay. They just have to do that. But I do understand, you know, why you bring in a guy who was an assistant for the unit that ranked dead last in the league last year. It's a valid question. I'm not gonna sit here and say it's not a valid question.
Yeah. I think Rick Gosling, who does the annual special teams rankings every single year that I know people in the league actually do pay attention to and do care about a little bit. They were also dead last. The Rams were in that statistic as well. The Patriots were more middle of the pack last year, I believe it or not, despite the kicking issues. So I understand the concern with Jeremy Springer based off of what the Rams
have done. I'm also not gonna sit here and pretend like I know every single special teams coordinator or know exactly the schemes that Jeremy Springer is gonna run on special teams. But I will say this, I do find it interesting how Gerrodmeo is gonna approach special teams versus how Bill Belichick approached special teams. Are they going to have the Matthew Slaters, Brendon Schoolers, Chris Boards, Cody Davis's
of the world all on the roster next year? And I wonder, you know, Springer working with a bunch of young players last year, we're working with a bunch of rookies on special teams. Maybe they look at it and say, we're probably gonna be giving those roster spots away to guys that we think are gonna contribute in multiple phases instead of just in the kicking game. And we don't necessarily do it the way that Bill Belichick viewed it in terms of having all those special teams only guys
on the roster. Therefore, there are gonna be some rookies that are gonna play in the kicking game. There are gonna be some udfas that are gonna play in the kicking game. And I think that that's a good thing because I look at some of those things as opportunities, you know, for players like last year a mere Speed again, you know, he was a guy that really they only viewed as a special teamer. He gets picked up by
the Colts when they tried waving him. Marty Mapu, like, those types of players should be playing regularly on special teams and in the kicking game, and that can get players up to speed with the speed of the game, tackling live in game situations and things like that to the point where maybe in year two they are contributing
on defense. Maybe they are contributing on defense later on in year one if they show out on special teams and show that they can handle the physicality and the speed and the tackling and the open field and things of that. Sure, so I would like to see them give some of the younger players some opportunities to just get into these games. And maybe that's how Girodmeo looks
at it. On special teams, No offense to Board and Davis and those types of players, But those guys are veteran guys that have played a ton of football that you know didn't help the bottom line of their special teams unit last year all that much. So why not give those opportunities to some of the younger players coming in.
I don't think it's unfair to have one or two of those guys on the roster. If you had like a Matthew Slater and a Cody Davis.
And like Matthew Slater is one thing, though Matthew Slader is an all time great special teamer.
Right, But I'm saying, even if you had one or two core special teams guys, I think that's that's realistic because you want guys that can, it's their primary focus. It's with their two too. You want leaders in that group. I think there is something to be said where if you're just constantly changing eleven guys or ten guys might skick or punter in and out, you lose some continuity
on that side in that phase. I think it helps they what was it, it was nine they had this year that only played special teams, Like, that's too many. I think one or two is fine. I wouldn't want zero. I do think it's important to have some leaders in that room beyond kicker, punter, long snapper. You don't need nine to again. One or two to me is sweet spot.
All right. Now we have offensive coordinator Yep down to so they interviewed eleven candidates, but we are down to six in terms of people who they have interviewed who have not either taken another job or in the case of guy like Jarrad Johnson, I think that was last night right that broke with Jarraw Johnson that he's going the other night, that he's gonna stay in Houston. So the six guys still kind of up in the air are I'm just in no particular order. This is the
order I have them written down. Nick Kayley, who is the Rams tight ends coach, obviously was here for eight years as a tight ends coach, Tanner Engstrand who's the Lions pass game coordinator, former tight ends coach Brian Flurry who's the Niners tight ends coach, Luke Getsi who's the former Bears offensive coordinator in Packers quarterbacks coach Clint Kubiak who's the Niners pass game coordinator, and Scott Turner who
is the Raiders pass game coordinator. Let's actually let's do Kaylee last, because Kaylie's kind of been viewed as the favorite, So let's let's end it. There a lot of attention in that Shanahan, McVeigh, Lafleur category, Angstrand I really like. I think Kubiak's an interesting candidate. It does seem like whichever direction they go, the only guy, the only Guys that aren't from that tree are Angstrand, who's in Detroit and has been in Detroit. And is Scott Turner in
that tree like he's kind of bounced around. I'm not really sure what his.
Is, not not necessarily, I mean he he was in Washington for a minute. So it feels like it, right because everybody in that tree is from.
He's never been in any one spot long enough for me to look at it and be like, all right, that must be where his core for lost he comes from.
Yeah. So it's interesting because, like you know, Angstream with the Lions, for example, and Ben Johnson, they run a pass game and a play action pass game that I would say has a ton of overlap to what the Shanahan Tree is doing. They're all about what's clear out the middle of the field and let's create you know, intermediate shots into the middle of the field with stretched vertical stretch elements in the middle of the field and things like that, and then obviously running the football. But
they run the football differently. They're not an outside zone based scheme. They're a downhill scheme. They're a power scheme. They run a lot of duo, they run a lot of counter trap that type of stuff. So they do it a little bit differently than the Niners guys or the McVeigh guys do it, but it's the pass game is pretty similar in terms of how it marries up
and things like that. That's and it's why Jared Goff has been successful going from the Rams to the Lions, and they've built that around Jared Goff a little bit as well, I'm sure. So I wouldn't say that Egstrand is is Shanahan Try by any means, But it's a branch, right Like It's not like a main branch, but it's it's kind of like an adjacent in a lot of ways.
He's a fascinating candidate obviously, just based off of the Lions recent success and Ben Johnson staying in Detroit, it would be a great higher But at this point I think that Nick Kayley, it would be an upset if it wasn't Nick Kayley as the offensive coordinator. And I think that there is a chance though that one of these names on this list ends up coming in as a top assistant as well, like maybe a quarterbacks coach, or maybe they give somebody a pass game coordinator title.
You know Nick Kayley has been working with tight ends, so he does a little bit of bold pass game run game, but I'd say he might steer a little bit more towards run game in his background. So is there a chance that they bring in a Clinton, Kooby or Getsi, who both have experience with quarterbacks as a quarterbacks coach slash pass game coordinator, and that brings in somebody in the building that has worked closely with a quarterback, because I think that is really important.
So, okay, do you think because the question a lot of people have with Kaylee is is he coming back? He has a year in mcveigh's system, so he's exposed to it. But that's compared to eight years in Josh McDaniel's system. Which one is he coming back to run? Which one are you bring him back to run? How much does just one year of exposure give him when it comes to actually implementing that McVeigh offense.
It's the number one question is which playbook is he coming in to run? And I look at it and I don't think that you can. Your roots are in the system that they're in, right, So I don't think that you can completely reinvent yourself in one year now, can he pull from the Shanahan McVay stuff and maybe they bring a little bit more motion, Maybe they bring a little bit more outside zone, maybe they bring a
little bit more of the boot actions and things like that. Yeah, absolutely that that could be a bigger part of the offense compared to what we've seen it over the last twenty four years. But I would have to imagine that there's going to be more overlap with the Patriots playbook than the McVay playbook. With that being said, though, if they bring a Getzi who is with Lafleur in Green Bay, or they bring Koobiak who's in San Francisco right now, it does give you two people that have been in
that system. So if they want to go more towards that thing, that line of thinking, then those two guys can then help. One of those two guys can could help a Nick Kaylee implement more of those things. But I think that where Kaylee's it's mainly just you pick up little things here and there. I don't think you're going to completely reinvent yourself from one year with Sean McVay.
Again, you want to call and join us, We're talking coordinators right now, we'll get into the Senior Bowl in the little bit and want to ask us about prospects eight five five pats five hundred, So eight five five seven to eight seven five hundred. My one thing, Look, if Kaylee's gonna come here and implement McVeigh style things
into the pre existing Patriots offense, that's one thing. If you're bringing him back just to run the Josh McDaniels offense, I know people aren't gonna want to hear this one to say it. Just just bring back Josh McDaniels at that point.
Oh yeah. I honestly, we've been talking about this a little bit out here. Why they're there seems so reluctant, at least at this moment, to bring back Josh McDaniels. I think it's a little surprising. Maybe him and Gerrodmeo didn't have the tightest of relationships. Maybe they want to
distance themselves from the Belichick thing. I get that, But I don't know about you, Alex, But like if you just look at the names that they're interviewing and the guys that are available right now, I mean, is there any question that Josh McDaniels is the most qualified candidate on the market to be the offensive coordinator. And when I say on the market, I mean guys that would realistically take the job. And I understand that Josh McDaniels
is not perfect. He's not a good head coach. We know that, but just in terms of his offensive actimen, his experience, his experience running an offense, calling plays in an offense, I just think that you'd be hard pressed to find a better candidate that is available and that would take the gig. And I know that he has all sorts of ties, but to the New England area. His family is in New England, like he wants to. I think would much rather be home base in New
England than anywhere else in the country. Yeah, those things are rare.
That's the one thing I'd urge people with McDaniels, is.
It.
We talked about this a lot, Evan. There are some guys that are great coordinators and that's what they are. And that's the end of the sentence, right, And if there are reasons to hesitate about McDaniels, and I get it, and we've talked about them, he stunk as a head coach is not a reason to not hire him as a coordinator. That's because it's you're you're, it's a completely different job, and he was better as a coordinator. So I just I it is a little interesting that I
brought him up. It may be, like you said something, just with the with the Belichick era and trying to move on a little bit. All right, let's take a call or are you good on the coordinators?
Yeah?
You do?
You want me to praise Joe Milton now or later?
Hang on? Hang on, We're gonna get to Joe Milton. Let's take some call, in some emails. Then we'll get into prospects. Let's go to Nik in Australia. I gotta figure this thing out. Niek we got you. Hello, I got him Nick. Sorry, this is oh Jake. Okay, we got Jake, It says nieck On here Jake. How are we doing today?
Not today?
So tell you.
It's a it's been a long time I've been pitching a call with But you guys on so early?
What time is it called the cat?
About eight thirty in the morning.
Okay, Yeah, so that's that's.
So really, So I just want to give a big place to you guys, because you guys absolutely do an awesome job, especially this time of the year.
Dang you.
But yeah, on the coordinators that we're just talking about, I just missed the special teams who were talking about, but just wondering if we could use one of our to get us through this year.
Sorry, say that again.
The safe the special teams to coordinators, Yep, just seeing if we could get away with one of ours. Boar, do you reckon? We need to go outside of the building for special teams this year?
Oh?
Yeah, they and thanks for the call, Nique. They went outside the building. They hired Jeremy Springer, but they are going to need an assistant, and I think they go outside the building for that as well. I don't think Cam acquardor Joe Judge is coming back from that.
Joe Houston's going to Florida.
Yeah he's gone.
Yeah, I don't see. I'm with you hundred percent that I don't see Cam a Corridor Joe Judge back here next year, certainly not as an assistant, right. I mean, you're not going to hire either one of those guys an assistant Special Teams coach. So they'll have somebody else there. I don't know who will be, but they'll have they'll have an assistant at least one for sure.
All Right, we got a couple emails here. Is there a possible offensive coordinator rookie quarterback combination that would be exciting Evan. If they are going to run the McVeigh offense with Nick Hayley, who's the best quarterback fit for that?
Yeah, I've been saying this whole time that that's Drake May. Drake May is the best system fit. I think for a lot of these traditional offenses. When I say traditional, the McVeigh offense, the Patriots old offense with McDaniels and O'Brien, those are not offense is typically where you're talking about a lot of off script stuff happening. Like there are obviously elements of that in every offense. And I'm not saying Stafford brock Purty like Jordan Love. Those guys move
around and those guys make extended plays. But their offense is similar to the old Patriots offense and that one respect, and that is that they want quarterbacks that are going to throw from the pocket on time, with accuracy and set up yards after the catch, like it's a West Coast face system. The ball wants. You want the ball out. You want it on time, you want it accurately, and you want it leading guys down the field to run
after the catch. So when you look at Caleb Williams, who wants to improvise, when you look at a Jayden Daniels who wants to throw deep and then also obviously uses legs, not great fits, I think Drake May between the numbers is probably one of the best quarterbacks over the last couple of years at throwing in the middle
of the field. That's exactly where this offense lives. If you look at like the top five or seven quarterbacks in the league in terms of inbreaking routes, you know, crossers, dig patterns, slants, it's all McVay, Shanahan, Tree type of guys, Laflor type of guys. It's Stafford, it's Jordan Love, it's Brock Purty, it's to uh C J. Stroud. You know that's the way that this offense is run.
Yeah, and that was Riley with the question, by the way, on the email. Thanks to that most the other question draft related. So let's get into the Senior Bowl through two days of practice. You want to start with the quarterbacks.
Let's start with the quarterbacks.
I don't know what I've done. I think I've made a mistake. Maybe maybe I should not have exposed you to Joe Milton, because.
I mean the Senior Bowl exposed me big time to Joe Milton.
So I thought you were gonna be annoyed by Joe Milton. I did not think you were gonna take Joe Milton seriously. I don't know that I take Joe Milton seriously.
I am taking him seriously.
What has happened? What if you because to me? And and look, I'm trying to follow it on TV. The quarterbacks probably easy an other position. I mean, I think you've gotten yesterday. You definitely got the Joe Milton experience where he pipes a ball over the middle twenty five yards on a frozen rope, right into the tight end, hits a backflip, and then two plays later there's a guy standing stationary ten yards in front of him and he throws the ball ten feet over his head. That
is the full on Joe Milton experience. I know he's he's crushed all the numbers in terms of ball velocity, spin rate that should be expected. He's breaking all the records on the scoreboard. He might break the scoreboard. We have to wait and see on that one if they ever actually let him throw the ball deep. But I don't know. I've more or less seen what I expected from Joe Milton, which again interesting. I don't know that I'm in on him. I just I find him fascinating.
He's a fascinating player to me. But you seem to be willing to take it a step further.
Okay, So here it's the same thing that you said last week. Like nobody is sitting here saying that the Patriots should take Joe Milton with a third overall pick. I'm not even saying that the Patriot should Joe Milton with the thirty fourth overall pick. But from what I've seen this week, you told me, Alex the very very first time that we talked about Joe Milton, if you need eighty yards to throw in eighty yards, if you need five yards to throw in eighty yards, right, the
guy has a cannon. He has very little control of the ball, and he's all gas, no breaks, like, there's no touch, there's nothing like that. I actually think over the last couple of days, he has made it a point to show that he can read the short part of the field, and he can throw with some touch and some timing on the underneath stuff the short game, and he's done a decent job of doing it. You know, today I thought he threw probably the best pass of
the entire day. And it wasn't even like this great downfield throw. He just threw a slant to a receiver where the post safety's coming down and closing down and he throws it like a little back shoulder. Jared Goff made the exact same throw in the NFC Championship game last weekend that everybody went Google Googaga over right. So those types of throws, I just didn't know Joe Milton had that in his bag. I knew he could throw at eighty yards. I knew he could throw the deep ball.
I knew he was athletic, I knew he was mobile. But the fact that he was showing some ability to hit five, you know, a five yard slant, to show some ability to find the running back in the flat and hit a first down throw into the flat. Those types of things were not things that he did consistently well in college, and he did them well over the
last two days. And you add that on top of the fact that he's got a bazooka as an arm, and now all of a sudden, you see, well, if he can be this consistent on the underneath stuff, then maybe there's really something there. So the comparison that I continue to use for him is day three Anthony Richardson.
He's not as mobile, he's not as freakish, he's not an alien like Anthony Richardson was in the combine, but he has got a similar set of skills, a similar ball of clay, just maybe had a lesser to And if on the Patriots again, you have to him higher than the Joe Milton's of the world. So don't nobody take this as me saying they're gonna draft Joe Milton
and all all our problems are fixed. But if they are going to let's say double dip, if they are going to sign a veteran quarterback and then maybe take one in the draft as like a developmental guy as a project, then I would much rather take a guy like Joe Milton and has some significant upside than take a guy like Michael Pratt who's just gonna be another Bailey Zappy. Right, So that's the way I look at it, he's got a really high ceiling. And those guys are
I think are fun, they're and are worth developing. Maybe you end up finding out down the road that he can play and start in the league because of his physical school tools. Who knows.
Yeah, And I mean, look the throw you're talking about on the slant. There aren't that many quarterbacks that can make that throw because that window. The arm strength comes in there too. It's not you know, throw it, you need it five yards, third, eighty yards. It's kind of
a hyperbole. He his arm strength is also impressive in the sense that there are some windows that most quarterbacks won't even touch that he can flirt with because I think they had his ball velossy like seventy six miles an hour.
Right, that's so intriguing, Which is it when you watch these two Sorry to off, but like when you watch these two quarterbacks for the Patriots all year last year, Like we are just so programmed to watching quarterbacks that have no arm talent.
No, but this is different. This isn't. This isn't going from a lack of ball velocity to the ball velocities normal and it looks fast. Seventy six miles an hour on a football. That's some I'll pull the numbers up here. I think that would be would make him one of the five hardest throwing quarterbacks in the league. I know Mahomes like touches eighty occasionally. If he really gets in when he touches eighty, it's it's it's different. There's windows
available to him that are not available to other quarterbacks. Now, the flip side of that, and you say he's been good about it this week, is he has no problem testing those windows and that it's a dangerous game because it is still tight even if he can get it in. Sometimes they're not windows. He's going to be able to test consistently. In the NFL.
He has been the most poised quarterback down here, which I think is absolutely shocking when you look at a guy like Pennix, a guy like Bo Nicks, even somebody like Spencer Rattler, all but mostly those first two who have had so much success in college, that have Heisman Trophy finalist on their resume, national Championship game appearance on their resume. The fact that Joe Milton has been the coolest guy on the field. You mentioned the backflip so
he doesn't. Yesterday he does a backflip. Today he threw a ball into the flat and kind of like, you know, did like a basketball, like you know, nailed it, type of like shot motion. It doesn't matter at the and a grand scheme of things, but I just kind of like the swagger.
I just kind of like he he that's a guy that loves putting on a show, and there is there is something to be said for that. So I'm trying to find the numbers here and I can't find from this regular season, but the draft last year CJ. Stroud and Anthony Richardson topped off at sixty two miles an hour. Patrick Mahomes they have is over sixty miles an hour. So say Josh Allen's at sixty two, and it says that Mahomes was a little fast in him, so maybe
it's sixty two in a decimal. Joe Milton again seventy six miles an hour.
Yeah, it just you look at this just the field. The difference between what the Patriots have now where we all are clamoring for is somebody that just has the physical tools and the addability, mobility, arm talent, and then just it's a little bit of swagger. It's just it's it was a much different feel. And you mentioned how his ability to drive the ball allows him to access
some windows that other quarterbacks can't access. And I feel like over the last couple of years, the you know, ten to twenty yard range in the middle of the field, or even like the fifteen to twenty five in the NFL, where you have to fit the deep dig in, you have to fit the seam, you have to fit these throws into these tight windows. The quarterbacks that they currently have on the roster just don't have the velocity to
be able to do that. They can't drive a ball twenty twenty five yards down the field into a closing NFL sized window, and this guy can. So I'm intrigued. I don't know what to call it. I'm just intrigued.
I know intrigued. Intrigued is different than in And yeah, so the record for the combine, and we'll see what Milton does at the combine. The record for the combine sixty two miles an hour. Joe Milton's seventy six point four miles an hour initial air speed, So maybe that's a different measurement, but yeah, all right, moving off a Joe Milton. We'll get to Penix and Knicks last. But
you mentioned Michael Pratt hasn't really impressed you. I know you said you've been impressed with Spencer Rattler.
A little bit. Yeah. Spencer Rattler I think has probably been the the in terms of getting through the reads, throwing on time, throwing in rhythm. He's been the most comfortable in that respect, I would say, in these two practices, and he's controlled the ball pretty well. He basically has
one glaring mistake in two days. There's a bad interception towards the end of practice yesterday where he was throwing a crosser from the three by one side and he just lost the backside corner who had zone eyes and just read it and jumped the crosser from the backside. But in general, I think he's thrown with good accuracy. I think he's latered some good throws, especially like whole shots,
corner rats, things like that into cover two voids. And he's done a really nice job of you know, getting off one, getting to two, getting to three in the progress, which was something in college that I don't think he did particularly well. He was somebody that did tend to hold the football a little bit and struggle with processing speed, so he's looked comfortable. I think the one thing that that is a shame almost with him is that he's only six feet tall. And I'm just I mean.
He doesn't even look he looks small, and I don't know why he didn't look as small playing in college. I don't know if it's the jersey or whatever. He looks small.
Yeah. I don't know about you, Alex, but I'm I'm just out on quarterbacks that are under six foot two. I just I have no time for it. I'm sorry. I maybe that tight tightest, I don't know what to call it, but I just give me Joe Milton over Spencer Ratler all day, every day, simply just because the guy has got the size and the talent and all
that stuff to maybe develop into an NFL starter. But I have been intrigued by Spencer Rattler as well, just another one of those worth round double dip you know, upside type of potential guys. He's spun the ball pretty well here this week, and like I said, he's made some nice throws pretty much all over the field and
really hasn't made a ton of clearing mistakes. So it's I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that Spencer Rattler and Joe Milton have probably been the two best quarterbacks and mobile through the first two days. But that's just the reality, which I guess we can get to. You know what that means for Penix and bon Nicks.
Yeah, I think Pennix has been fine. I don't know that he's been good or bad. I think he's been more or less you expect. Again, the big thing for him is handling pressure, which is something he's just not dealing with. You're not dealing with in a setting like this. Bonnicks had a rough day today.
Yeah, bo Nicks has been rough.
Yeah, he dropped a snap, He had a couple of misses. He also had one I don't know if you could tell this live, but on TV they kind of had him miked up and he was having a lot of trouble relaying the plays with the because in college you don't have the plays called into the headset. You get a hand signal from the sideline and that translates. He
kind of struggled with that one a little bit. So I came into the week saying, you know, I don't know how much bo Nix has to win or lose sixty one start to you more or less know who he is. It hasn't been a great week for him, though.
No, it hasn't. I agree with you one hundred percent on Penis. I think that he's been fine. I don't think that he's hurt his stock. I don't think he's helped his stock. I think he's made a couple of good throws. I don't think he's made any real glaring errors, No, like terrible turnovers or anything like that. The one thing I would say with Penix just I was looking forward to watching him live and seeing how much his arm, talent, and his velocity and all that kind of stuff look live.
I haven't been dazzled by the ball velo or anything like that. But again, I agree with you that I think he's been right down the middle, and he'll probably come away from this week with everybody in the same exact thing they thought about him before they came into the Senior Bowl, which is, if he clears out medically, he's probably a top fifty pick. If he doesn't, then who knows how far he's gonna fall down, but it's gonna because of the medical stuff, not anything to do
with his play with Nicks. He's been bad. I mean, like he's just been downright bad. I think the biggest concern with him is not necessarily timing and processing decision making. His ball accuracy has just been all over the place, Like he just hasn't made throw an accurate passes.
And that's supposed to be his carrying trait is supposed to be a short intermediate accuracy.
Yeah, and that's exactly And like I saw when I watched him on film, like some of the deep ball accuracy, his deep ball is not perfect. He puts air under it, so guys like Troy Franklin could like run under it and stuff like that. But he's not like a pinpoint deep ball guy like Pennix's. But he was really good in the short and intermediate areas, and those are the places where he struggled the most. Here is in that
inside the twenty yard range. Let's call it Day one. He's, you know, got on a bootleg action Tess Walker is crossing over the middle of the field. He's got him wide open, and he misses him by like five yards. He missed a skinny post this today where he just the guy's just wide open in a middlefield, open coverage, just splitting the safeties and he just throws it behind him.
Like those types of misses, you just you wonder if you just chalk it up to Senior Bowl anomally, I think that's basically what this is all about, is confirming
or not confirming your priors. But it's definitely something that you have to think about it now and maybe even go back and revisit some of his game film and say, is he just did I miss this the first time around that he's not very good at throwing let's say from like the five to fifteen yard range, or is that something that was he just had a bad week. You know, there's two practices. You're not really familiar with the receivers, you're not familiar with the offense. So maybe
it's just a bad week, you know, who knows. But it has been a big, big struggle for him with his accurs He's been all over the place in terms of his ball placement, and that that's a big thing because in college not Oregon offense, and the same thing with Justin Herbert, it was all screens, and it was all vertical routes, right, Like, that's the Oregon offense. It's either you're throwing the ball out the line of scrimmage
or you're throwing vertical shots. But in the NFL, the intermediate stuff is where like ninety percent of quarterbacks make their money, right, that's right. That's such a much bigger area of emphasis in the league than it is in college because in college it's these air raid, wide open schemes and they're just chucking and ducking. In the NFL, it's that's in structure. Play is short and intermediate, Like that's how you really move the ball in the NFL.
So if that's a part of his game that maybe we just didn't see a ton of volume in that in college, and now that he's putting in an NFL offense in the Senior Bowl, it's coming out more and more that he can't hit those throws. That really hurts him in terms of his ability to be a starter in the league.
Yeah, and look, I don't think he's gonna fall behind JJ McCarthy or Michael Pratt or Joe Milton. But when you're talking about is he worth a first round investment. That was I think the question he had an answer this week. And you know he's back in the state of Alabama. He's looking a lot more like Auburn bo Nicks than he is Oregon Bonnicks. Real quick, you touched
on Pratt. You haven't loved him. I haven't either. He just looks overwhelmed, and I think the biggest thing with him was experienced, kind of like Nicks, where he's kind of your day two or day three bow Knicks however you want. He's the next tier version of bow Knicks, where he's a guy that is good from the pocket, is an accurate passer, is like a little athletic, but you're not gonna build a run package around him. He's not a guy that's gonna overly test the deep part
of the field or tight windows or anything. He's just supposed to be consistent kind of quarterback you can set your watch too, and we haven't seen that from him.
Yeah, I would agree with that. He's he's been overwhelmed would be the word I would use. He's thrown it some some balls into some team meetings. A couple guys have gotten hands on passes from him, and it hasn't looked overly consistent. I did think today in seven on seven he started to open it up a little bit more. That's one thing that I've been a little disappointed with all the quarterbacks, honestly, is when you get into seven on seven, can we not throw check downs in seven
on seven? Like let's like, let's see you push the ball down the field a little bit. I thought that Pratt made a couple of downfield throws in seven. The one he missed on a go ball. You overthrew it just a little bit. But the only guy that has consistently made it a point to really try to push the ball down the field consistently is Rattler, and.
You know that's how he plays. I think Milton is probably trying to prove some things and that's why he's not doing it. Spencer Rattler has never seen a deep an open deep receiver. He didn't think he could get the ball to and most of the time he can't. But that's just kind of the way. That's his whole mentality is he's a he's a big play hunter. That's that's what he does. Yeah, I just un Ratler real quick. I'm curious how he's interviewing because that's gonna be a
big thing for him. There were some questions about his attitude coming out of high school, and uh, the stuff that we're not going to see I think is bigger for him this week than what he does on the field.
Any So much of Spencer, really quick, so much of Spencer Rattler that you tell me about because you know so much more about these guys, like in that respect, is so much of it. It reminds me of Jared Stidham. I just don't think that that's a good thing.
I don't. I don't know that's an interesting comp I politically has the talent, but does he have the drive?
Right?
Like that's the that's what you know. I don't.
I don't think the problem is that Rattler doesn't have the drive. I think he enjoys football. To me, it's more. I mean, you go back and you watch the Elite eleven documentary when he was in and look, it's when he was in high school. It was five six years ago, Like has he grown up? It's very possible, but there's some questions about what kind of teammate it is he is and how guys rally around him, and does he alienate guys, does he rub guys the wrong way? That
sort of thing. I don't think like he definitely cares about football. I wouldn't say he's a guy that doesn't care about football. He's not I used to use with Stidham the he does. I don't think he has the Alex Moran thing right, but it's there's just some questions about does he rub people the wrong way, how is he in the locker room? Things like that, And again we won't see that he's just so and he's very small. He's very small. There's some like the negative elements of
Baker's evaluation, Baker Mayfield's evaluation. I think you see a lot of Spencer Ratler, another Oklahoma guy by the way, just real quick, I thought Carter Bradley had the throw of the day today, that deep out he threw it on the move. That was pretty much it for him
and Sam Hartman in terms of notable moments. I think it's funny Sam Hartman shaved his beard to look younger because he doesn't want scouts to think he's old, because he looked like thirty five when he had that beard, and he's like twenty six, twenty seven years old or anyway, But any thoughts on Hartman or Bradley.
Bradley's not bad, but he's an NFL backup, you know, he's I don't see him as anything more than that. But he's made some really good reads, I would say, in these practices. Like you mentioned the the out round of the corner route that he threw today. It wasn't the best most accurate pass in the world, No, it made the receiver had to go to the ground to make the catch, but it was the right raid on the plane. I'll give him credit for that. I think he's done a nice job of reading the field here
this week. I have no thoughts on the Notre Dame cornerback. We can move on from that.
All right, Let's suck because we got a couple of calls. We were talking about the quarterbacks. So let's take these calls and then we'll get to the other positions here. Let's go to make in Virginia. I gotta remember how to take this call. Jake, Do we got youa what do I hit? I hit? Answer?
You hit the Was it like green? Right now?
I click it again? All right? Jake and Virginia, we got you. Yeah, there we are right figured it out, Jake, How.
We do good?
Good?
A couple questions for you guys. If we assuming we take quarterback first, I guess it was our third overall pick. What do you think of some names like the tackle from Byu and maybe like Joe and polk Er Xavier Legett, like in the do you think those guys would be available in the third round? And do you think they'd be scheme fits?
All right, let's let's touch on the get and we can use that transition to the wide receivers here for the There's gonna be options. I don't know about those specific players. There's gonna be options at thirty four, at sixty eight. I think there's some eyes you look at. Do you move up from thirty four on the back end of the first round? A guy like Talisa Fuanga if he falls, would be a guy that he forgets say it the mid twenties. Do you move up for him? Patrick Paul? Do you move up for a guy like
that in the mid twenties? But I just said we were gonna do receivers, and then I dipped in the tackles receivers. Xavier le get did not have a good day yesterday. I don't know what was up with him, Like he's open, but he's still like putting on moves on air. I don't know if he wanted to show coaches that he had that in his bag, whatever that was. But I thought today you saw much more of the kind of dominant catch point receiver you were hoping to see from him this week.
Yeah, he's not my cup of tea, you know that I want. I would much rather take the Roman Wilson's, the lad Mcconkeye's, the pure solos of the world, Ricky piersof from Florida. Like those guys run rouse, those guys know how to get open. Those guys are quick, they're heady. They're guys that are nuanced with their movement. Xavier Legett is a bully receiver that is pretty good at the catchpoint. Now, I'll give him this, These practices are not for Xavier
leget Like Xavier Lagette. I assume he's gonna play in the game on Saturday, and those are the opportunities that he's gonna get to catch and run with the football to win it. The catchpoints down the field and just bully guys with his physicality, He's not gonna impress anybody in one on ones, Like that's just not his game. But what I saw from him, I feel pretty strongly that I think in such a deep wide receiver class,
it's just not my cup of tea. Like there's so many other options at that point in the draft that I just don't see the need for it. I texted you this comp, and I feel pretty good about Leaviscus Chnault as a comp for him. Is he gonna be able to run routes?
Like?
Is he gonna be able to get open in more than a couple of different ways? Is he beyond a scheme touch guy? And he's also only came in at like six' one or like I think he actually was like six feet in in a quarter or something like that, So he's not overly tall. Like it's not like we're you know, we're talking about like a six four or
six to three receiver. I just it's not not my brand. Now, if you want to tell me that he's like discount Deebo Samuel, then like maybe you could like make that argument. Because he is explosive. He is a huge, huge guy, Like he looks like a running back, big running back linebacker type, but he just doesn't run very routes very well at all.
And then the other ex receiver who there were a couple of these like true X guys you were looking at coming into the week, could they have big weeks? Was sorry? Was tes Walker, who, Yeah, I think had another rough day to day.
Right overall, I thought he was better in one on ones, had a couple of good reps, but I think the biggest issue with him, oh, I guess two issues, But the real biggest issue is he's had a ton of drops. Like he's been dropping passes left and right. I think I had him down for three or four drops today between you know, one on ones and team drills, Like, what's up with that? Because he has pretty good body control.
I think he's got a pretty good catch radius for an outside guy, but he's really struggled this week with drops. And I think he had three this year at UNC, which isn't a ton, but the year before that he had seven, which might have been a little bit more indicative of what we've seen. That was a weird thing that I wasn't expecting to see from him. And he hasn't created a ton of separation either on a lot of his routes, so he's been wearing coverage a little bit.
He's been struggling with drops. It's not been a good week for him.
So let me ask you this then at the X position, and this guy may be more busy, but I feel like he's shown X skills and he had a much better day today. Ricky Piersoll seems to be the guy that if you're looking for that like six foot plus catch point winning dominant WIE receiver, I think Ricky Piersall has probably been the best of those receivers this week.
I really like Ricky Piersall. I think he's quick too, like I think you're gonna get in and out of breaks and run routes. He ran a really nice whip route from the slot and or maybe it was like a condensed split today. I think he's got a little bit more route running than those other guys do. He's not as stiff. He can he can get in out of the break him. Roman Wilson obviously has been fantastic. Ladd McConkey Uh from Georgia had a really good day yesterday.
We'll get to your shifty guys, don't worry. Do you want to jump to that now?
No, I'm just saying, you know, I'm just you know, I have to get to my guys. Well, no, I was.
My next thing for you is going to be okay, go ahead, tell us about Roman Wilson. Get it all out.
Oh god, yeah, Roman Wilson. You know, I really liked Roman Wilson coming into this and he's done nothing but but proved me right, which is always good to feel when you watch the film and you're like, this guy is a little bit underrated and then he comes in and has a week like this. I still get so many any Aman Rossaint Brown vibes from the way that he moves, in the way that he runs routes, just
silky smooth, efficient, quick, great hands. Made that one handed catch today at the end of practice that I know is making the rounds like he's just been as advertised, if not even better. And it makes you wonder if he played in an offense, you know, if he played in Washington's offense, for example, right where they're not where they're not running the ball a thousand times like they do at Michigan. Are we talking about Roman Wilson in
a much different light. He just wasn't in an offense that allowed him to showcase these things that he's doing here at the Senior Bowl. So that's been really fun to watch. And Alam McConkie wasn't as good today as he was yesterday and one on ones, but another one of those guys that just knows how to get open and understands angles and you know, stems and leverage things like that. That's really heady like that, and you know to give you one though, one bully ball kind of
outside hyper. Jerry Rice's son is Benton, kind of been kind of impressive. Brendan Rice from usc Is. Jerry Rice's son doesn't play like his father at all. Like he's like a big six ' two sixty three perimeter receiver. Yesterday was like all catch point stuff. He was making a lot of really great catches on contested catches down the field. Today he separated a little bit on some routes though, and I'm intrigued by him if you're looking
for more of that outside guy. I think Pearsall can play on the outside, but it is probably more of like a move piece, whereas Lad mcconkee, I think could probably you know, if Piersoll is like a fifty to fifty guy inside outside, Lad mcconkeye's probably closer to like sixty five forty five. Uh, you know in terms of that zerole how.
About roll then how Yeah, because you compare him to Alman Ross Saint Brown, but I feel like he has more in May. I don't know. Saint Brown could maybe play on the outside too. I mean he's in the scheme, he's in a Detroit and that he's him out of the slot and he's a weapon there for them. But I feel like Roman Wilson can be an outside guy. Maybe not one hundred percent of the time, but I feel like he can, you know, sixty forty.
I just think that his ideal role is playing off the line and running him out of like bunches and stacks and things like that, where he's just gonna be able to just have a ton of space to maneuver and work with. He's a really difficult guy to cover when he has a two way go, like if he could go in or out like you're you're screwed, like you can't. It's really difficult to cover guys like that that are so nuanced and shifty, So I think that his ideal role is probably still playing, you know, off
the line, in that Z flanker role. But I saw him, you know, win some verticals today and yesterday. I didn't necessarily catch that many of them, but I saw him, you know, testing DB's and things like that over the top. So I'm not ruling it out that he could play
a little bit on the outside. But just think of the way that you know, a team like the Lions use armand Ross Saint Brown, the way the Rams have historically used their receivers like Pukakua and h Cooper cup just off the line, out of stacks, out of bunches, setting picks for him, setting rubs for them, those types of things I think Almah and Ross Saint Brown is so good at. And I that's why I see so much Roman Wilson, you know, so much Aman Rod and
Romin Wilson. So not not necessarily like gonna run a four to three either, Right, He's probably gonna be a guy that's if he runs anything faster than a four or five, then he's then he's really in a great time.
I think he could get into the four fource. He looks pretty fast to.
Me, If he does that, then he's I think he's really like going to be in the top fifty.
Conversation that wouldn't surprise me by the time we're all sudden done. Yeah, So I think he is. He like a four four seven four four eight guy That wouldn't be the most surprising to me. Another guy and I have one more receiver I want to ask you about, and then I don't know if you have anybody else you want to touch on? Rumor has it runs a four to four or at least did in high school,
And that's Johnny Wilson, that's I think. So he measured it at I think six six two thirty five, right, so I got to bring those measurements down a little bit. That's the same size as Joe Milton. He really is the Joe Milton of wide receivers. Johnny Wilson, they were talking about him maybe having to move to tight end in the NFL, But I think he went out today and reminded people why he's a projected top fifty pick.
A guy that big should not move that nimbly, And yesterday he's kind of trimping over his feet a little bit. Today he was really good one on ones, and one on ones are not usually favorable to the six foot five, two hundred and thirty pound receiver.
I don't know what he is, but he's but he's intriguing.
He's wide receiver Joe Milton. So the he measured in at uh six sixth oh no, wow, he did check in at two thirty seven. Okay, so six six. He's bigger than some of the tight ends. If I look at this, he's bigger than He's not bigger waight wise than any of the tight ends. They're at least two forty.
But okay, so is he and I and I know that right now that this is maybe like a sour comparison from when it's come up from the year he had last year at the Patriots. But is he Mike ASICKI because that's sort of how I feel and that's not not no.
But I think he's much care what if he runs a four to four?
Oh so you think he's like DK Metcalf.
Supposedly, the like college football people who track this like what what we are to the draft, The people in college football who do that with high school recruits claim he was running like four four, not in four fourths, like four four four four oh that he was running a four four oh in high school.
If he puts down anything like that, then then maybe I'll I'll change that compy just the way. I'm just confused as to like what exactly how I would vision his ideal NFL role because I watched him this week and he's.
Four four two. He ran a four to four to two supposedly supposedly he ran a four four to two in high school.
I just feel like he kind of struggled a little bit with not necessarily stacking defenders but then like pulling away from them in the second and third phase down the field. I thought, I don't know, I'm intrigued by the skill set though, Like they're not that many guys that are that big, that move that well. You know, he moves like a wide receiver, but he's built like a tight end, which is why I kind of use the Kasiki type because I don't think that he's he's not shifty right for his.
But he kind of is is. I don't know, I think he look, he's not Julian Edelman.
No, no, but relatively speaking for a guy that's six six, two thirty seven.
I think he moves pretty well. And he's also I mean, you're not gonna line him up in line, You're not, because he's not physical. You're gonna pu him at the Like, I don't what would you call a tight end that ex exclusively lines up at the X? Is that a tight end or is that a wide receiver?
I see, I see him. I agree I that he's definitely not gonna put his hand in the dirt ye at any time in his NFL career. So like maybe he's more of like a jumbo slot, you know, I just don't know if he's necessarily.
But it's not that kind of route runner.
But is he like a guy that can run like seams and in cuts? Like yeah, I so.
Maybe trying to tab him with the position is dumb, Like he's gonna have to you. You're drafting, You're drafting Johnny Wilson, I think, and these are these are my favorite kind of players in the draft. And Evan, you hear me talk about this all the time, the guys that you know, Roman Wilson is a really good player. Right, But like you just said, I'm and Ross Saint Brown, Like you're gonna find Roman Wilson. A guy like Roman Wilson in most drafts doesn't mean he's not a good player,
doesn't mean Patrick didn't take him. But there's only so many skills sets to go around Johnny Wilson. You're not gonna find Johnny Wilson any other year. Like, if you see that guy, you draft him, and you have a plan specifically built for Johnny Wilson, we are going to use him like this. I don't think he's a guy you're drafting and saying, all right, we're gonna put him in this pre existing role we have in our offense, because I don't think that role exists in an NFL offense right now.
I just look at him, and this is not a knock, but I just look at him, and I say, how great would it be to have this guy running the seam in my offense right stretching the middle of the field, running the seam. Throw him, throw the ball up to him, and let him play basketball that you know, in the middle of the field, right, Like whether it's high pointing it, back shoulder seams, like all the type of stuff. I just see that as a I don't know if he's
a true X. I like that role. But regardless, he's got skills that are rare, you know, for a guy that size, and I'm willing to at least like give it a chance. You know, worst case scenario, he's like Scottie Washington or something like that. Best scenario, he turns out to be somebody that can really contribue.
I think, I mean ceiling Ceiling is DK like again, that big, that athletic. Now the knock it. You may be asking why he's not a first time pick, raving about him. His hands are suspect, and it's funny because.
Well, that's why I feel like I struggle with him as an ex because I don't but you know, it doesn't really win that at the catch point.
But here's the thing. I think he does win at the catchpoint. To me, he is he He drops the ball when he's open, like he'll go up and win fifty to fifty balls. But when he's running like a slant and the defender loses him and he's all alone, those are the ones to me, he drops like they're just focus drops. And I think that's coachable. It doesn't
mean you'll automatically fix it. But he's he is weird it's really weird with him because it is such a unique skill set and so much of what we do is based on, Hey, this guy can be this player. This guy can be this player.
Right.
Somebody said tall or heavier Quinton Johnson for Johnny Wilson. How do you feel about that because you didn't like her, you didn't like Quinton Johnson.
I'm not a Quinton Johnson guy. I love players like Johnny Wilson too, because I feel like it's a challenge, like find a way to use this guy because he's a unique player. But at the same time, when you get into those types of players, sometimes there is no way to use him, right. There is no way to really maximize it, and he doesn't really have a position, and he's not really great enough at one thing to
highlight this one trade or whatever. So there's a chance, you know, he's a boomer bus player to me because of that, Like there's a chance that he just doesn't really have a position in the NFL.
Any other receivers stand out to you at Jamari Thrash from Louisville's had a couple of good days. Ania Smith is kind of the day three shifty slot receiver. I think he's a fun player. Luke McCaffrey, we already talked about Brendon Rice, who's been the better family member of an NFL legend. Anybody else stand out to you?
Luke mccays made some plays, you know. Yeah, he's he's got a little bit of like the McCaffrey quickness. You know.
We know he was a quarterback, right.
Oh okay, Well then he's Jacoby Myers.
That's I was going to say, how much does he look like Jacoby? Because he played quarterback at right? He played quarterback at right, so I think for a year he didn't it was a backup. I think he made like four starts.
You know, I respect Jacoby a lot, So I'm not going to sit here and say that, you know, everybody's Jacoby, but you know, I I think that he's he's got a little bit of that like kind of heady route run, a little bit of quickness, you know, a little bit of size. Yeah, I could see that.
He's a little bit on the bigger side. I think, right, isn't he he's Yeah, where is he here? Six one two oh two? So I mean that's solid size. Any other any other thoughts on the wide receiver position.
H no, but if you want to stick with the skill positions. Though for a second, I do have some running backs, which I know is going to shock you.
Yeah, all right, we got a couple more calls, will mix them in, but let's let's talk. Oh yeah, we got to talk about till the Lobby. Of course. I'm assuming that's who you have the thoughts on, or one of the guys.
Dylan Dylan Lobby's this guy. Guy's legit man, Like you know, I am anti running back. I am as anti running back as you could possibly be. But Dylan Lobby intrigues me because they just don't have They've been searching for that type of player for a while now, really since James White hung it up. And he's a sub package back.
Whether you want to use him by handing him the ball at a gun out of spread formations or you want to throw him the ball, he's he's a sub package back like that's exactly what he is in the NFL, and they definite desperately need a guy like that, especially if they're not going to have a super mobile quarterback again or something like that, then they really could use like a checkdown guy, a safety valve and somebody that can run out of spread and things of that nature.
And I think Dylan Lobby is really you know, he comes from un h right, So yeah, you want to see is does it translate against better competition in the NFL. Caliber guy absolutely has, absolutely.
Has the initial burst when he gets the ball and puts his foot in the ground against going And there's one play he made yesterday, Evan, I'm sure you know which one I'm talking about. It's a shotgun hand off and he actually gets the ball late because if there was an issue with the snap of the handoff or something, and he still gets out of the backfield so fast. Whether or not the defensive end had the ability to
set the edge was irrelevant. He's around it, he's gone, like you needed to set that edge so quickly in order to contain him. And that's such a dangerous skill set for running back to have. So I have been incredibly impressed with Dylan Lobby and that is absolutely a guy like you said, you put him in the James White role. Is he gonna be James White? I don't know.
I mean, James White was a great, great player, But you talk about a guy that can truly impact the game on third downs in a number of ways from the running back role. We haven't or they haven't shout it on TV. I don't know if you've seen Evan him in any one on ones or pass pro situations, but with the all in his hands, yeah, he looks very legit.
Yeah, in what I wants. He's done a really nice job really all around. You know, blitz pick up, they've done a little bit of that where they have real blitz pick up one on one type of matchups, blitzing linebackers against the backs, and he's done okay, And he's had really good hands, you know, really reliable hands. He's
got some quickness at the top of the row. Trying to think of like Patriot Coms, like he's probably a little bit more Rex Burkhead than James White, or maybe like a little more like a bigger Danny Woodhead or something like that than a James White type. But I you know, I'm not a running back guy, and I would be okay with a Day three pick on Dylan Lobby. I'd be cool with that.
And I don't think he's gonna go that high because it is a good running back draft. I think that. Yeah, uh so they're sixty eight and the third I don't even know what they are on the fourth off the top. Oh well, we don't know yet. Actually we don't know, but it'll be somewhere around like one ten fifteen.
Yeah.
I think that's not taking him any earlier than that. Maybe you can wait till the fifth round, but early day three I would not have a problem at all. I think that would be a great, great pick. Did you have any other running backs that stood out?
So Marshawn Lloyd from USC's made some really good sketches. Yeah, he can catch the ball. I win on vertical routes too, which if you're going to be a running back in my in my world, right.
Yeah, Oh you almost said it. You almost said the M word, the m O word.
Oh no, no, no, no, I wasn't going there. I've learned my lesson in my world in running backs in your offense, if you can't win on a wheel route, I have no time for you.
Yeah, he's been crushing the wheel routes, right.
Yeah, yeah, he can run a wheel route. He can get up the field a little bit like if you want to run him up the seam, you know, make it three strong for strong with the wheel or the seam like. He can definitely do that. And he's he's been able to catch some passes out of the back that he probably caught Bo Nicks his best throw of the week so far on a wheel route on a mesh concept. So he's he's caught the ball pretty well.
And uh day John Edwards, I hope I'm saying his first name correctly from Georgia.
Uh.
He has caught the ball a little bit too, and has shown some ability to catch the full ball. I think both Lloyd and and Edwards I think are more you know, they're stouter, like, they're stockier guys than than Dylan Lobby. So I'm not sure they're pure third down backs, but I'm looking for guys that can catch the ball a little bit out of the backfield. I think that they could use that for sure.
I'll give you one more guy. This is the one you're gonna hate because ramondrous Evenson is entering a contract year. Do you get, you know, the next early down guy. I don't think they need to take him until late. I mean you're talking six or seventh round, and look, it's easy to do this in a practice where there's no live tackling. But Rashena Ali from Marshall was highly highly, highly productive in college, and you can see why he doesn't. He doesn't wait around. He gets the ball and he
is boomed north south like he does. He just attacks the hole with with with a purpose. That's kind all all he does. And I think there's a role for that in the NFL. I get just before we freak out, sixth round, seventh round. I do think he'll get drafted. I don't think he'll be u DFA. But it's you see the production in college and then you go by the way. Also played for Jeremy Springer was the special teams coordinator at Marshall when Rashina Lee was the kicker.
Was the kick with the kick return of there. But I don't like the running backs that do the little jitterbug that like it's one thing if you're deng Lewis and you're great at it, but if you're running back and you're over two hundred and ten pounds, hit the hole. Just get the ball, hit the hole, fall forward. Rashiin
Ali hits the hole with purpose. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on him, but sign me up for him late on day three to come in and just be a be a early down rotational running back.
Yeah, you're not a fan of Barry Sanders, Apparently he does too much.
Again, if you're Barry Sanders, great, go for it. I'm saying the guys like, you know, not to pick on a former Patriot, but like Lauren Smerni would sit back there all day and wait for a hole that was never going to open. If you're Barry Sanders, also, wasn't over two hundred pounds and put that qualifier on it. If you're especially in the modern NFL where you're gonna have these smaller linebackers and the safeties playing in the box, and you have the size advantage, get ahead of steam
and go. Don't waste time, get ahead of steam and go. And it felt like Rashina Lee did a good job of showing that.
Yeah, you think Barry Sanders sucks, That's what I heard.
I get. No, he's not over two hundred Was Barry Sanders over two hundred and ten pounds?
There's no way I know we can move on. I've already done enough, wasted enough time on running back.
No, but Dylan Lobby's a guy, local guy. Yeah, and he would he would make the football team better. Yeah, and that's ultimately this is all about all right, let's get some calls.
That's big of me to say, by the way, that I agree with that.
Well, he's like a hybrid receiver like you were always gonna kind of like again, if you would like Rashena Lee, I'd be a little more surprised. I'm more surprised you're as eager about Joe Milton. I'm more surprised you're as eager about Joe Milton. And I knew you were gonna like to a lobby. That was an easy one. Let's go to and we'll take some calls. Then we'll get to the tackles. Tyler in South Carolina has been hanging on for quite a bit. Tyler, thanks for that.
Hey, any guys doing Hey good. So as far as the draft graft, I got two things.
One I would have my eyes.
On Jaj McCarthy. He's kind of that like a hybrid quarterback as the Washington Group his Michigan Daves. And he's got a great place now. He can throw that ball at least forty yards And if we don't go for a quarterback in the draft. Do you think we go out get a vet, keep Zappy has that train kind of motivate. Zachy makes Jappie better, So that way even comes time where our vet quarterback goes Zappies rates at then and see like.
The next Brady, Yeah, I I don't know about Thanks for the call real quick on Zappi. You're not keeping Zappy and signing a veteran and having Zampi as the backup with the planet. Hand the keys over to him. He's in his third year. Either he's your starting quarterback or he's your backup quarterback. Brady, Right, Yeah, we need to need to calm down with that. And we've all talked about JJ McCarthy. I just he's so I'm higher on him than you I think at this point, which
is I didn't see coming. Does he do some things that interest me? Yes, Like I think his athleticism, I think his size. Okay, there's something there. He's so far away from being able to win games in the NFL. The discipline, the field, vision, the consistency. Look, he just turned twenty one earlier this month. He has time. That's a guy that needs to sit for a year or two.
That's the guy. If it's twenty eighteen and Tom Brady's still here and you have you know, all right, we got a couple of years left, that's guy you take like he needs to be on a Jordan Love path. And the Patriots don't have the starting quarterback, they don't have the Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers to do that. You hand that key, that kid the key's day one. I don't think it's gonna go. Well, so there is I understand.
I've come around more on like, all right, if you want to talk to me about JJ McCarty in the second round for a certain kind of team, sure, I don't think the Patriots are that kind of team.
Yeah. I've actually asked a few people that you know, I've talked to here about JJ McCarthy because I am so low on JJ McCarthy. It seems like compared to the league, like you know, guys like Daniel Jeremiah for example, who's plugged into the league and has you know, so many friends in scouting, how's this guy as like a first round pick, you know, a top twenty five player in the class. You know that type of thing. Dame Brugler similar like has him like close to the first round,
if not in the first round. So I think the thing that with McCarthy is that, yeah, you can make a cut up film of like five minutes of him making all sorts of NFL throws right, Like, you can do that, but it's that's just a snapshot of the entire picture with him. So yeah, it's in there like that. You can see all right, he throws this, you know, a scene with zip He throws a slant with a good touch and timing on that crossing route that everybody
shows against the hiding as Ohio State. Right, he can get out of the pocket, he can run around a little bit, like you can show all those types of things, but is any of it consistent? Has any of it developed? Like, absolutely not, And that's that's just the difference between it for me, a first round pick versus maybe some other people. To be a first round pick should be ready to play tomorrow, Like he should be able to walk onto the team and be the best quarterback on the field.
I don't think Jajon McCarthy is is going to be that, So that to me is more of like a Day two guy. That's worth developing, but isn't someone that I'm taking in the first round. So I guess that where I'm at with Danie McCartney.
Let's go to Matt in Washington and then we'll get into the big boys, the tackles. Matt, how are we going, Matt? You got me?
Hey, guys, Hey, any concern that the Juju in Parker contracts make it hard to really attack the wide receiver position? And what a good offseason for it? You know, I'd love to see them sign one and draft one early
on or double dip in a great class. But do you start to run into like a rep tissue where you either aren't giving a highly drafted rookie enough playing time or you're setting up a tough situation where you're trying to minimize the role of two veterans account almost like twenty million dollars against.
The cop Yeah, Matt, thanks to God. Look, it's a great question. It's a great question. What do you do when you need to add to the wide receiver position, but you have two players who maybe aren't starting caliber players right now that you owe a lot of money too. I do think they need to be cognizant of the reps. I think the worst thing they can do is draft a guy high and sit them, especially when wide receiver more than any other position. The correlation between year one
and overall success or lack thereof, is legit. If you're a good wide receiver, you produce in your one. If you're not, you don't. There's just not really who is the last wide receiver that didn't really burst on the scene until two, three, four years in his career. You don't see that anymore. You know who these guys are from the jump, So I think they should be open to moving one, if not both of them, because it's gonna be expensive. It's gonna be a tough contract to eat.
When we talk about cap space, really what we're talking about is how easy it is to maneuver your roster. And that can be signing for agents, but it can also be, hey, we can you know if you have a wide receiver or two you love in the draft, Roman Wilson, right, and you're probably gonna use Roman Wilson that Z type role we saw Jujus and the Shuster in all right, we can afford to have. I don't know how much the dead money is on Juju off the top of my head, but I think it's like
eleven million. We can afford to have eleven million in dead money because we're gonna be paying Roman Wilson nine hundred thousand dollars and we're gonna have our starting wide receiver. So we're allocating twelve million dollars over all of this position, which is about right for a starting zet. Now for that to work, you have to have to have to hit on the pick, and that this is basically what
the Rams did. It's a little different because they already had the dead money from a number of different things they did with their roster. It's not like they were just cutting guys to reset the roster, but they had to ball on a budget, for lack of a better term, they had to win on the margins they drafted. Well, right, if you end up with a guy like Pouk and Akua, the twelve million dollars in dead money for jujus from
the shoster doesn't hurt that bad. Now, if you miss on the pick, you miss on the pick, and that sucks. But it's that's the position they've put themselves in. So I do think it's something that they certainly should consider I'm not saying cut every bad player and have fifty million in dead cap, but I do think there should be spots they should look to pick. Whether it is a guy like Juju Smith Schuster, whether it is a guy like Devonte Parker, you know, on the defensive side
of the ball. Davon Gotcha actually doesn't have a lot of dead money. He has some, but it's not a lot. They can open up a lot of money if they're confident they can address those holes and improve the roster. You eating money is not a bad thing to do this offseason.
Yeah, I think that. I'm with you on the eating money thing. I do think that should be on the table.
Is it's by the way, it's twelve million for Juju if they caught him nine dead money, twelve million if they caught him nine million if they trade him. So if you can find like the John of Smith trade where you just move him for like a seventh round pick swap, you save three million, and I think they could be able to do that. I bet think he gets somebody to take them for you know, you're you're not gonna be paying him anything, and I bet they you trade him.
Maybe, But I'm with you. I think that you have to. That's some cost at this point, and the worst thing that you can do, like you said, was create a long jam at those positions and then be forced to May this regime doesn't feel as forced to pay the experienced guy over the rookie year or whatever. But I just don't even want to give him that option. And I would just cut my losses if I could with both of those guys. Even if you have to eat some of the dead cap, I'd be okay with that.
And maybe wait, you know, maybe wait until you get into camp. Got you know, team This happens every year teams around the league. Guys that get injured. Teams don't like their wide receiver room as much as they thought they would, and they are looking to add veterans and things like that, and that's where Parker or Juju is able to get moved. I don't know if they're gonna be able to the Juju or the John who excuse me.
Some situation was unique because Arthur Smith coached him in Tennessee and got the most out room with the Titans and wanted them back. I don't know if they're maybe Kansas.
City or or Washington, Eric p enemy. Yeah right, because the enemy was the OC there that year, right, Yeah, yeah, so maybe maybe Washington. I mean they need they could use a guy like that, right, They've got Terry McLaurin on the outside. They've got Tammy Brown kind of as a speech or they could use a chain mover, certainly,
especially for a for a young quarterbacks. So all right, you'ready getting the big guys because this has probably been the most Has this been the most fun group of any down there?
I think it's been the best group. You know, the receivers have been really good too, But I would say that in terms of top to bottom the best group. I mean, there's probably eight or nine guys that we could discuss in this conversation at the tackle position. But I will say one thing, and there is nothing against an anyway. Some of these names are like giving me a tough time, Alex. You know, I really we could. I could appreciate some easier names on these.
I have them all except uh Sua Madiata, the kid from from by the rest of them, so they had. He goes by Tally. I think his full name is Talise, but he goes by Tali Fuanga there's no en in there, but it's like the tongue of ie, right like tua. Yeah, so it's helped us. They've had these guys on NFL network, So Tali Fuanga. There's been two guys I think that have really stood out as in a group that's been good overall. Talifuanga. I'm just gonna say it as many time as I can to flex that I know how
to say it. And a little bit easier name Tyler Guidon. So it's Oregon State, Oklahoma. Those two guys just dominant, just dominant, and they they win in different ways. I think Fuanga's more the big stout. He's just gonna envelop you like you come at him. You can try to spin, you can try to do this or that. He's just too big. Whereas Tyler Gidon, what impresses me about him so much is when we talk about these big tackles. We did this a lot last year, Evan with my
guy from Ohio State, Dwan Jones. Was the concern is when you're that big, can you move? Can you get to the outside? Because when you see a three hundred called three hundred and thirty plus pound tackle, I think when you're lining up across from a three hundred and thirty plus pound tackle. The first instinct, the first thing that the defensive game planners, defensive edge rushers will come up with, is all right, what can I run around him?
Can he get to the edge? And I think the coaching staff and Jim Naggy have done a very good job in this of They've shown what happens when you try to go you know, five tech seven, tech wide nine around Tyler Goeyden. You're not running around Tyler Guyden. Dude is such a good athlete. He moves so well at six seven three twenty eight. You're not running around that guy. And they're trying to spin on him and this and that, and once he gets his hands on
you too, you're not getting away. He's too strong, He's too big, fast, strong tackles. So I don't know where you are Fuanga versus Geyiten. But I think in a group that's been good, those who have really stood out as the winners.
I agree. I think Floga is more of the technician. You know, he's a little bit more a season than experienced, and you can tell that his plan is a little bit more developed. I think that's the biggest thing. Whether it's pass rushers or tackles, you have to have a plan of how you're gonna first, you know, initial contact, initial point, at the apex point of the rush, and obviously to handle counters as well and in need. There are some good edge rushers in this group as well.
You know late to lat Too from UCLA is gonna be a dude like that guy is really good, awesome speed, cross chop, all of it. And I think that when you face those types of guys, you have to be able to have a lot of different ways and bury your sets in your hand placement, your usage. I think that's more fun. Say his name again, because I'm gonna freaking butcher it the whole season. That's more Fuanga's game is more technician chess match, you know that sort of thing.
Tyler Goeyton right now is all raw athleticism and potential. I if I was a team that felt really really good about my offensive line coach and my offensive line coach being able to develop a guy like Tyler Geiton, I would draft Tyler Gouyiton in the first round, no question ask and hand him off to Dante Scarnaki and watch him turn into an all pro, right, Like, I
really feel he's got that kind of potential. But he's a little bit green in terms of his hand placement and some of the things I've seen with his set points in his pass pro. But he's really really good at being patient and understanding, Hey, I can mirror guys. I have the footspeed to do this, and I have the power and the strength and the body composition to just catch guys as well. So I think that he's got that ability to be patient, sit back in his
chair and just mirror guys in past protection. That's gonna lend itself really well to the next level. That's number one thing then we look at. Also is run blocking with Biton Yea, the Yukon guard. I'm begging on his name. I'll look it up. Him and the entire guy and have had some dominant dominant reps. Christian Haynes, who's from Yukon. He's had a nice week down here and he's done a great job with Tyler guyon on some double team blocks based blocks things like that. That those two guys
have been moving people on the right side. So both these guys are right tackles. You should mention that you know they're both these guys.
So I want to ask you, do you think because they asked Suwanga today on NFL Network if I mean, obviously he's going to say yes, but they asked him about playing left tackle. He said yes. I think Geiton he's so raw, he's early in his development. Like, do you see either of those guys as potential left tackles.
I would say Giton more just because of the foot speed in the range.
You know.
The one thing about playing left tackle, you're facing a lot of the same rushers no matter which sides you play on. Some guys actually prefer, you know, like if TJ. Watt prefers to rush on the right tackle, so like you're gonna face high end competition on both sides. But I think about left tackle is that you get left one on one a whole lot more on the back side of pass pro, and so that makes it a little bit harder. And I think Geyon is a guy
that has the athleticism to do that. I don't. I think could easily be a left tackel probably too, just with his technique and trusting himself over there. But I think that he's someone that's been pretty entrenched on the right side, and I would leave him over there.
All right, other guys in this group that have stood out, we'll get We'll get to the standouts in a good win. And then there's a couple guys who have struggled. So no, let's do this. So the rest of that talk group, we talked about this coming in Evan, that there's seven tackles expected to go somewhere between like twenty and fifty six of them were going to be there. That number got cut to five. Fatanu from Washington ended up not going, So I f Wanga and Geiton were the two guys
in that group. The other three Kingsley, Sue Mattilla again that's the one I'm still working on, Jordan Morgan from Arizona, and Patrick Paul from Houston. Those three guys, how have they stacked up compared to fu Wanghan Geiton.
So I would say that Pulanga and Geiton have definitely been in their own tier. Yeah, But Patrick Paul is just a monster like that. He he is just an absolutely large human and I know he's been killing the athletic testing here, you know, all like the zebra stuff and things like that he's like six seven three thirty. I think he has thirty six in charms, which is just absolutely.
Gonna have it right here, six seven three thirty three thirty six and two eh in arms, two eighths inch arms, eighty six and six eighth wingspan, nine and three eighths hands.
So a thirty six and two as arm length is gonna put him well over the ninetieth percentile at the Yeah.
He's nobody else. Sua Mattia is at thirty four and two eighths. Christian Jones, who's a big guy, is at thirty four and seven eighths, but he's also he's about the same height. Yeah, nobody else is really over thirty four. Ethan Driscoll's at thirty five, but he's six ' nine.
Yeah, So that he's a big, big dude, and he can move and he can move people off the ball. I've been pretty impressed with him. He has caught a lot of guys and been bull rushed a little bit in pass protection. He plays a little bit tall, and you know, his flexibility and his lowers isn't great. That would be the one knock I would have on him. Sue Matia has been ex like, that's exactly what a
Patriots right tackle looks like. Typically, wide body can't get through him get a move people in the run game, like if they're looking at it and saying, we just want somebody that we're gonna plug and play as a starter and not necessarily thinking about let's get the higher upside left tackle taking. I think Sue Matia coming in as the right tackle would would easily be able to hold down that position in their traditional schemes, like if they're going to be a downhill run team still and
not going outside zone or anything like that. If it's like Kayley, then I think that Sue Matia I fits that bill perfectly for what they usually like on the right side. I've been impressed with the kid from Texas, Christian Joe Zones. He's a big tackle too, but he moves well. He's got great hand placement, really a good inside strike to leverage blocks and control engagements with his hands. Yeah, I think that he can play and uh and I'm
intrigued by him too. I think, you know, I looked at the art consensus board that we used Alex and he was like an early Day three guy, like a fourth round projection. I think he might be playing himself into the into the third round conversation here this week.
So think about Christian Jones. I've kind of called him like a Day three Trent Brown. A lot of penalties, yeah, a lot of penalties. And he's probably only he could see on the right side.
Yeah, So he he likes to really grip guys like with his hands, and so if guys feel that, then they might try to like move like, you know, quickly, like to the left or right, and then it looks like holding. So I could see that. But he he's got really good inside hand placement. Like a lot of these guys and we'll talk about a few of them on on the con side or the downside. A lot of these guys, you can tell, just really struggle with their hand placement, and they got wide hands. They're like
bear hugging people. They're touching them like this. And I the one thing I'll give Christian Jones is I think he's got a really good inward, like proper strike in between the shoulder blades that's done a good job of latching onto guys and controlling things.
I've been impressed with his footwork. He's lost it a couple times, but I think upper body he's really good. When he struggled in college, it was lower body. It was his feet maybe getting narrow, or just him not getting into his set quickly enough and lowering his anchor quickly enough. I think he's done a really good job of that this week. So that's something where again you talk about he's moving up boards. By the way, I looked at up Patrick Paul has the wings span of
somebody who is seven foot three. Yeah, and he's sing seven.
So he's another one of those guys that if again Sam similar to Tyler Dighton. Yeah, if you feel really good about coaching, and you feel good about your line coach, and you think that you can just hand this guy off to you know, somebody, and you know Bill Callahan and Cleveland is just gonna turn this guy into a stud, then I would draft both those guys.
Well, you put Patrick Paul on one side, Dawan Jones on the other. Cleveland, Yeah, I mean, look, good luck getting around the edge. A couple more depth guys I thought were good. Javon Foster for Missouri had a really nice day yesterday. Took a little bit of a step back today, but I thought he was good. And then Roger Rosengarten, who would still imprinted in my brain what
him just getting beat like a Drummond National Championship. He's been good, and the interesting thing about him is he was a right tackle at Washington, but he was a right tackle for a lefty quarterback, so he has that blindside experience and he's gone against a lot of great edge rushers. So those two guys stood out. And then the one guy. I don't know if you have any thoughts on them, but the one guy wanted to ask you about because they haven't shown him a ton on
TV for whatever reason. Ethan Driscoll from Marshall. I'll be honest, he wasn't totally on my radar coming into this. And then I heard them say, you know, you see guys measure in in college at six ' nine and then they get to this event and they do the official way and they're like six seven and whatever, uh six eight three twelve thirty six inch arms Ethan Driscoll. I
don't know how's he looked. Again. I haven't gotten to see much of him, but you know, six ' eight is who's the guy last year from Baylor at the Shrine Bowl that we saw, and he was just so much bigger than everybody else under Galvin. Yeah, and I think he ended up like sticking around the league, at least as a rookie. He's just so much bigger than everybody else. You can't help but see him.
That's a good comp I would say. For what I've seen him.
Drisk Gallon's on the lines, he stuck around, So.
Yeah, I worry about those guys almost being too tall because of the leverage battle and the pad level and all that kind of stuff. I remember talking to Sebastian Volmer and I he said that Nate's older is a great player, but Nates older was almost too tall for his own good, where he just had so much height that he just was never the lower guy in any engagement. And I feel like that was what I've seen a little bit from Driscoll is just a struggle of you know,
leverage and guys getting underneath him. But he's a big guy and he moves pretty well on run blocks from what I've seen too. So someone that I have definitely jotted down to look at a little bit closer. Not a top one hundred player by any means, but somebody that might be available later on in the draft.
All right, so we talked about that talk group. It feels like most of them have delivered. I know you're not high on Jordan Morgan. I think he struggled. He might be a guard in where you're at with we'll call him Kingsley from BYU.
Yeah, so I would say Jordan Morgan. The couple of things that I have seen from him on the positive side have been like his ability to kick out in the run game or work up in time up to the second level in the run game, which typically when you see that those two things, you think that's more translatable to inside play, like yeah, guard right, you know you're a better run blocker. You're good in confined areas, you're good in the phone booth, like play a guard
when he gets out in space. I was mentioning hand placement things like that. The one thing that you see with his hands is he carries them wide and he carries them low, which is not what you want to do, right, You want your hands up. I remember talking to Adrian Clem last year and he said, your your chest is everything, right, Like if you give up your chest in past protection as a as alignment, you're you're going to have a
long day. It's really difficult if you can't control your chest and keep your chest out your guys out of your your frame. And I look at a guy like Jordan Morgan and I think he's struggled with doing that a little bit in these practices. But he does run block really well. And he's also measured in with shorter
arms and expected over under three or three inches. So maybe he's someone that ends up translating to guard, like if you put him at guard in like an outside zone scheme, I think he'd be really good there tackle. I'm not so sold.
On any other thought. I think we talked about pretty much everybody. I know there are some guys that are like a late scratch from the roster, but I think.
Yeah, we talked a little bit about Kingsleys right with talks to the BYU guy a little bit again. I yeah, I think that he's, you know, wide body, someone that would be really a fit for them at ride tackle if they want to stick with that typical Marcus Cannon, Mike on WNU. You know that type of body type.
So let me ask you this. A lot of people and I know he got hurt today. I don't know if you've heard any update on this. Jackson Powers Johnson, center from Oregon looks. I mean, he's going to be a top ten center in the league for most of his career, if not top five. He's a hell of a player. Probably he should end up al a first
round pick. He's projected a little lower right now. I think he's gonna come away from this week with some first round buzz and a lot of Some people have said as good as uh Fuanga's been, as good as Tyler Guiten's been, that, Jackson Powers Johnson has been the best lineman and mobile. So some people here say some people hear that and say, well, what if the Patriots drafted him and moved him to tackle. I wouldn't. I there's good tackles.
In the draft. Does he have the trades to do that.
No, he's under at the arm size. But I think some people just here for the people who maybe aren't as familiar with how this works, who just hear, oh, hey, you know this guy's really good, Let's draft him, kick him outside. Could he play guard? Yeah? Probably he'd be great on the Patriots. I think having a good center is valuable, but you're gonna need to use a first round pick to get him. They have a good center in David Andrews. They invested a decently high draftic in
the center last year, and Jake Andrews tremendous player. And then I say this a lot, even if the players good, when you draft the player, there's gonna be a plan. How's he gonna contribute, Especially you're drafting guy that high. I don't know what the plan is on jack You're you're gonna sit him behind David Andrews where I guess if Andrews retires, you're gonna make that You're It's nothing against David Andrews, but I don't know that center can
be their number one priority. I just don't see the path to Jackson powers Johnson and the Patriots happening.
No, absolutely not. But he's been fantastic. He's been the best lineman by far. I would say down here, and he's just the how just kind of powerful and compact, and he was named unreal. Unreal just kind of like ability to redirect with power and the ability to mirror guys. When I say redirect, you know mirror pass rushers on the inside, but to do it with like powerful strides and like knock guys off off their rail and things
like that. He had a one on one matchup with Michael Hall from Ohio State, who's probably one of the best interior rushers in the in the Senior Bowl this year, and just absolutely shut him down, not only shut down the initial move, but then shut down the counter and just watching the quick you know, ability to move side to side and things like that. It's impressive. He's going to be a really good player for a long time, just not not for the Patriots.
All right. I think that pretty much covers offense. We didn't really talk about, I guess outside of Powers Johnson, any interior offensive lineman, nobody's really stood out to me as that. You know. I like the kid eq Wacoun from Florida just because he plays nasty, but yeah he does. He's grab him in the seventh round, grabbing his UDFA interior line depth. Great. Are you good on that that front? The offensive front? I do want to talk about defense a little bit here.
Yeah, just quickly though. Ben Sinnett from Kansas City, Oh.
That's right, we're gonna come back to tight ends. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's been pretty good. I've been intrigued by him. I think you can get open. I think he catches the ball well and then you can block a little bit, can play some fullback linemans. Yeah, I'm intrigued. I don't love this tight end class.
Oh this is not good class. None of the not a lot of them are at the or do you just mean the Senior Bowl group?
I just mean, like so yeah, Brockauer, right, obviously, but let's just you have Brack Bowers, and you have Jatavian Sanders, the kid from Texas at the Shrine Bowl, and then what like then everything else is probably you're talking about late day three. No, I don't know.
I think Cade Stover could be a top one hundred pick. I think Dalen Hawker from Colorado State is a guy that could maybe play a little bit. He's gonna go middle of day three. I like Jared Wiley. I know he had a rough day to day. I thought he had a good day yesterday. But I think he's like a decent project tight end. I want to ask you about some of these guys because they're not showing him a ton on TV. So I guess, I.
Guess maybe it's just compared to you know, you're coming off last year. It's just it's not quite class.
No, But I wouldn't say it's that it's better than that twenty twenty class that was like cole Comet and then nobody.
Yeah, I agree, especially when you have black Bowers in the class like obviously, but even't like, I.
Think there's a couple of NFL starters here. Maybe not you know, pro bowlers, but I think there's a couple of NFL starters here. Uh So you mentioned Senate, who's kind of that you know, they're throwing Kyle used Check around left and right when they're talking about him, and oh really yeah, if that surprising, I see, I.
See, uh yeah a little bit because I love use check. We all love the use check. But I think Senate's a little bit more of like a pure receiving tight end than the use check is. Like, I think he's got a little bit more uh new. I just kind of I don't look at you as used Check as the guy that really you're going to run like routes from a tight end alignment. And and but.
I think, you know, Senate's a guy that can give you some of those full back h back type, which so here's what I'm saying. If the Patriots are going to go McVeigh and they need their Kyle used check Ben Sinnett. I think you could say could be the guy. I don't know, Am I wrong there?
No?
And he he had a run block today that had the whole UH team, you know, I was the whole American team just going crazy and dapping him up for it and like that. So he can definitely block. And I think he's caught the ball pretty well down here as well.
So the other guy I like in that kind of role, and he's I try not to be a sizest in terms of players, Like if a player is good and he's big enough, the one position of the sizes is tight end, I play mad. And if I see a tight ends under six to five, I want nothing to do with him. But Jaheim bell As that kind of moved tight end. I just his athleticism and they have even shown him a ton on TV. So this is again right, need you at Florida State, his athleticism jumped
off the charts. He can play true tight end. He played a little like slot receiver kind of role. We saw him at the I did see briefly today they were using him from a full back alignment. What have you thought of him as that kind of player?
Yeah, he hasn't really done much that stood out. You know. It's really been a lot of Senate on the American team, and then the national team has been a lot of THEO Johnson from Penn State. Like those are the two guys that have really stood out in terms of catching the football. So I can't say I've seen a ton of bell, you know. THEO john I think is a guy though, that can run. You know, he's they keep on putting up his like zebra numbers and stuff on
the scoreboard. He's a fast guy to n killed time well in the forty for a tight end, and he can move a little bit. I think, guy, Yeah, and I do. I agree with you on Wiley. By the way, I actually very rare for me. I actually saw Wiley live right because I went to that TCU game when we were down there in Dallas and I was like, oh, you know, I said to our good friend Bradley Amos. I was like, Hey, who is this this tight end that you you forget?
Actually when you were watching Colorado when you were locked in the early days of Colorado and they played TCU. I remember you text me, who's this tight end for TCU?
So maybe that was before we went to the game.
It was Yeah, it was like the first week of the year. But a couple of times you've kind.
Of yeah, yeah, he can play a little bit. I'm mean, I'm intrigued by him.
The one other guy I'll ask you about. And I don't know that this guy has like tight end one offside, but as a really good red zone run game, specially Pharaoh Brown, I think would be a good comp for me for this guy. And like I said, sizes to tight end. Six foot seven, two hundred sixty seven pound Brevin span Ford for Minnesota. You really haven't shown a lot of him. I know he had one nice catch today.
But if the Patriots don't re sign Pharaoh Brown, can you go and get Brevin's span Ford late on day three to be just that kind of maller tight end. You'll catch a pass or two.
Yeah, I agree. I definitely can see that. And you watch him and line up at the end of the line and it looks like he's another tackle, Like he's like that that type of size, and sometimes you have to do a double take and be like, oh wait, there's there's six guys lined up, not just five. So he's a big dude and he can definitely block, and that's something you know. Look, and the tight ends in need. It's in need on the board for the Patriots, they
have nobody signed. I think they'll probably bring back Hunter Henry in some way, shape or form, but in general, it's in need. And I also just look at their run game last year in particular, but even a little bit in twenty two. They struggled, I think at the tight end position with blocking at the point of attack, and I think it really hurt what they were able
to do from a run game perspective. So I'm all for trying to upgrade not just the pass catching ability because I think they did get a little bit out of those guys as pass catchers. It's more about the run blocking for me at that position.
All right, I am going to make you talk a little defense. You ready, Yeah, Yeah, let's start with the one position that I think we both agree if there is a need, not first round, not even top fifty, but if you're gonna flirt with defense in the top one hundred. Maybe you make the pick at sixty eight and then trade back in the third round. Something like that, A real free safety like actually going out and getting a potential Devin mccordy replacement. You know how much I
love Cameron Kitchens, and I know he's there. I think that I'm playing some linebacker today too, which which is fascinating to me. But the guy I have circled is is George's Javon Bullard? And what if you thought of him? And is there anybody else who stood out? There's been some there's some interesting box safeties there, ol Adopo from Oregon State, Josh Proctor from Ohio State. But I've really liked Bullard. One other sleeper free safety, Evan Williams from Oregon,
has popped a little bit for me. But what have you thought of those guys or any other potential Devin mccordy like safeties.
Well, it kind of stinks because these quarterbacks, and I think we talked about at the time, just off the context for so different. There hasn't been a whole lot of of deep balls thrown in these two practices. There just hasn't been a ton of testing the ball down
the field. So I haven't necessarily noticed their ball skills all that much, but just listening to some people around me and some of the scouts that are here, there is a lot of talk about how some of these guys do maybe favor a little bit more of the box safety types. It just seems like that's becoming so
much more regular in the college game. They play so much split safety, so it's more like left and right than it is like true free and strong safety nowadays, So you have to be able to do a little bit of everything, you know, like a Kyle Duggart type or things like that. But I would say the best center fielder is probably your guy Bullard right now that
I have seen. But I know it's not a major need for the Patriots necessarily, but there are those two corners, you know, Mitchell and cam Hart can really really play.
Cam harten ma very good. I mean, Mitchell's been good, but he's first round pick, you know, he's good. Although I will say this, so I wanted to talk about Mitchell and I had this kind of little intro. The biggest development for the Patriots that has nothing to do with the Patriots this week has been the play of queny and Mitchell because the Patriots are not gonna take Quinny and Mitchell in the first round. I don't think they're gonna take Quinia Mitchell in the first round. Wouldn't
make a lot of sense. But yeah, you know, coming from Toledo, coming from the mac, how does he match up against some of the you know, power five receiver And that was a question is he really a first round pick or is he gonna need some time to adjust and is he is he a second round pick? Quinnyan Mitchell moving up draft boards is good news for the Patriots because if he's going twenty twenty one, twenty two, like,
that's the prime range for tackles. So it's pushing it some tackle because a guy like Quinyan Mitchell is showing out, is gonna fall down the board a little bit. So I've been watching Quinyan Mitchell through that lens, but he's been that dude can play. He's like six ' three right, and he's got speed and just really good understanding of what wide receivers are trying to do to him. I think he truly understands the approach to route running and he's been he's been a ton of fun to watch.
I think he's been you can make the case. I mean, he's definitely on the in the he definitely is podiuming in this category. He's top three for sure. I think you can make the case that he's been the best player on the field so far this week. He's been phenomenal. I mean, his coverage ability is off the charts, sticky, competitive, physical, great ball skills, great route anticipation like this the whole gamut. And Cam Hart from Notre Dame has been pretty good
as well. And I think that cam Hart is somebody that they could maybe get on Day two of the draft. I don't think he's the first round guy, so maybe you get him a little bit later. We've talked so much about the Jason mccordy, you know, third corner. You know, you probably are going to go into next year with Christian Zales and Jonathan Jones pretty locked into top two corner spots. But Jonathan Jones ideally is you know that move slot corner, you know, shadowing z's and slot receivers
and stuff like that. So who's going to be the other guy on the perimeter. Is it Alex Austin, is it Sean Wade like that's that's a low key need. It's not a big one, but it's a low key need. And I would say that cam Hart maybe is one of those guys that you could get, yeah, you know, in a more reasonable category, reasonable spot. I also think that Show Smith Wade from Washington State even an unreal Yeah. So he's another guy.
Well more corner. I want to ask you about. This is another guy where you got to help ou because they haven't shown him a ton is Chris abrams Strain for Missouri. I wanted him last year. He was supposed to come out last year and he went back to school. You know how I love the converted receivers at corner. You know how, give me the guy that has spent his whole life tracking the football and put him on
the other side. Abrams Strain went to Missouri's wide receiver, played it for a year and then moved over kind of a tweener. He's five to eleven, so he can play on the boundary, he can play on the inside. We don't know how their draft tendencies are going to carry over, but the Bill Belichick kind of thing where this is the guy you put him in the Miles Bryant role. I think he'd be excellent, and he'd give you a little more on the boundary as well, because
he's bigger. That's based on his tape this year. I don't know if he stood out good or bad for you this week, but I'm a fan.
Yet, not like strong in one way or the other, but I would agree with you just looking at him in terms of his size and things like that. He's matched up a couple of times with Lad McConkie. He definitely is someone that I could see being a pretty
good nickel in the league, and that's been coming. It's such an important spot in your defense because of how much teams play out of eleven personnel with three receivers on the field, how important the slot is in the middle of the field and being able to fit the run from that spot. The nickels spot is really becoming one of the more important places to play in your defense. So I think those guys are valuable.
All Right, we got like five minutes here to really quick talk about the guys up front, and I gotta start you, said Quinnan Mitchell's in the conversation for the best player there this week. I gotta give you. I gotta give you my and fair you said podium, I'll put another guy up at the podium and hopefully it doesn't break under him. And that's Devandre Sweat, the defensive tackle from Texas. Didn't weigh in love that move. He's big enough. I can tell probably three seventy don't care.
I'm good. He doesn't like he's always dominant. Sometimes he's hilariously dominant. Like he took a center from Houston today whose name on a scale is escaping me. And I don't think this guy's gonna mind not being named. He didn't drive him into the backfield. He picked him up off his feet and just walked him back. This is a guy that Texas had running routes. Is a tight end in their goal line package, not complicated routes, but they throw him the ball in the Big twelve Championship game.
I don't see how he ends up as a Patriot. He's gonna be a top fifty pick. Uh, definitely some Vince will Fork shades. But like four or five years from now, when he's a free agent, I want Devandre Sweat. He's so fun to watch. He's so fun to watch. He just he takes over and he did it at Texas, like he took over games at Texas, and he has taken over the Senior Bowl when they give him chances.
We've seen quite it.
You know.
We were at the Shrine Bowl last year and we saw a bunch of Texas guys like that Texas de Hine just pumps.
Oh yeah, but sweats on another level, he's I mean, it's it looks when's the last time he saw a defensive tack look like that at that size.
Yeah, he's a big dude. I think Michael Hall I mentioned him a little bit earlier. He's been really good too. This is a perfect setup for him. You know, these twitched up inside rushers that just can win with really good you know, suddenness, explosiveness off the line, you want to I'm sure you know. This is not like he played at Florida State. I'm not saying he's a deep sleep or anything like that, but Brandon Fisky from Florida State is just I'll take that guy on my team
any day. What a what a freaking motor on that guy? That guy just off the ball in an instant bowling a china shop, always wrecking plays. He's in the backfield a ton, and it's not as much as I We all love watching the one on ones and things like that, when you get at the team like that's real football, right eleven and eleven is is real football, and he's
the type of guy that is wrecking things. The other guys are having the flashy pass rush moves and one on ones, and Fisky is the one that's in the backfield when it comes to team drill.
How about so I talked before where Davon Gotcha is in a contract year and they can open up some money if they move on from him. Lawrence guy's in a contract here, So I'm looking at run stoppers. Fiskey's one of them. Another guy who I think has had a great week who kind of projects is he's gonna go later. You can probably get him onto a three. I don't know that he might be a pass rusher later in his career, but right now I think could come in on first and second downs and play the run.
In the NFL is Dwayne Carter from Duke, and I think he's I liked him coming in and I think he's better yesterday and better yesterday than today. But I think he's had a pretty good week overall.
Yeah, he's a powerful guy like you definitely can can hold up at the point of a.
Kind of the day three Tovandre sweat kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, if they're going to continue to play odd front like, they're gonna need some some pure nose tackles, some guys that can two gap and take on double teams and absorb contact. And I can definitely see him being able to do that. What do you think that you know, where do you eventually think that A Law Too from UCLA goes because he's going in the first round.
Yeah, but he's had an interesting week high. Yeah, it's tough because the edge class is so good, right, so because he's been really good, but there's still Dallas Turner, Jared Versus and Chop Robinson. So he could go in the top ten, he could go fifteenth, sixteenth. I think it's gonna be And we're not obviously doing edge this year from the Patriots. But that's another one of those things. You know how much I love talking about sorting out the teers, right, how do they sort out in that tier?
Dallas Turner laid to Law too Jared Robinson might be a tier below, but Turner Law two verse all in that tier. They're all really good. They're all probably top ten picks. You have so much offensive talent, how much do they get pushed down the board? Does somebody move up from one of them? It's gonna be a flavor thing, all right, before we wrap it up, Evan, they have not shown us a single special team snap every time they go right to commercial. I need my Tory Taylor fix.
I need my Tory Taylor fix. How does toy do? Please tell me you stop? Watched Tory Taylor.
I did not stop. I'll tell you this, they haven't really done a whole lot of special teams. They really haven't kicked a ton on the TV.
That they're doing it too much, Oh.
I disagree. I have a lot of it's been off the jugs, like they haven't done have not kicked done a whole lot of kicking. I would think tomorrow they're following a pretty similar script to what an NFL team would follow, which is, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, big install days, Fridays kind of the clean up day and everything like that.
So I think tomorrow on the broadcast tomorrow's the red zone.
Yeah, I haven't been in the red zone at all, so that makes sense.
I wanted a Tory Taylor update all right, Well I might have to get that from you next week when you get back here. Yeah, so that'll do it for us. Thanks everybody for tuning in. We were kind of late, a different time than usual, and then we relate the traffic and practice wrapped up a little late as well, so that put us both behind. But thanks so much for tuning in. As always, you know, subscriber where you get your podcasts if you like this, Thanks everybody you
tuned in live on YouTube. We'll be back next week Thursday. I don't know if we know the time, but like we'll be Thursday next week usual date. Follow us on Twitter at easylizard Real Alex Bart. We'll get you all caught up on the schedule and we'll talk to you next time. Bye. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, Please rate and review us. Listener comments and ratings help keep us high on the podcast rankings so
new listeners can find us. Be sure to check Patriots dot com for more news.
And more podcasts